Trusty Hogs - Ep11. EVELYN MOK / Colonics, Cup Sizes & Cultural Appropriation

Episode Date: December 9, 2021

Evelyn Mok joins Trusty Hogs this week for a chat ON HER BIRTHDAY! From friendship dilemmas to one of the most traumatic tortoise stories you'll ever hear, and from colonic therapy to dog walking therapy - we cover it all...Thank you so much for listening! Support us at https://www.patreon.com/TrustyHogs for exclusive bonus content, merch, and more! Trust us with your own problems and questions... [e-mail] Please give us a follow @TrustyHogs on all socials Be sure to subscribe and rate us (unless you don’t like these little piggies - 5 Stars only!)Thank you to our Patreon supporters...EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: Simon Moores / Guy Goodman / Janinna BautistaPRODUCERS: Richard Bicknell / SBDubz / Elle / Richard Bald / Neil Redmond / Victoria Hutchison / Emma Walton / Karen Bull / Harald van Dijk / Kierah Leach / Tim & Dom / David Walker / Rachel R / Lee Myerscough / Anthony Conway / Sadie Cashmore / Claire Owen-Jones / Kim Dubhghaill / Jess & Nick / Zoë / Jo Holmes / Caitlyn Lyth / Aideen McQueen / Sarah & Molly Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi Hogg. Hey Hogg. How are you? How are you? How is your week been? How is it? Like, think to yourself for a moment. That's a good point.

What have you accomplished? Don't make them think that it's December. No, you don't have to achieve anything in December. No, those are the rules. If you're not achieving, you're aggressing my loves. Wow. Have you achieved? This podcast.

Have you been the change you want to see this week? Such an aggressive way to open a podcast. Does your impact on the world leave it a better place? Fuck you, Helen Bauer. Every day. Fuck you. Through the fog.

Step forth the trusty hogs. Yeah. You're going to give them your problems and they will solve them or maybe they won't and that's your problem. They'll have guests and Andrew White on the tech.

Oh. It's Helen and Catherine And if the trusty hogs Trust the trusty hogs Or maybe not No, you have zero obligation to achieve anything in December Literally all you have to do is keep yourself warm Eat whatever the hell you want

And get to the end of the year That's all anyone expects of you What is wrong with you? Oh my God, you're so much more relaxed than me I feel like if you're not striving to be a better person every day Helen, you failed You have failed Before this I was like

I'm feeling a bit overworked And you were like, you don't have to get everything finished before Christmas. Yeah, just be kind to yourself. Yeah, you're fucking fast. Fast. Okay, Helen Bauer.

What I want for you and what I want for the hogs is very different. I want the hogs to be like an army of achievers. Oh, wow. And me to just... I want you to just like fall off the face of the past. Oh my God, I love working with you too. But I want the... I want there to be like a full on hog army

where you guys are just out there just like, like come on guys. Like cure cancer. Do you know what I mean? That's such a burden. Before Christmas? I didn't say before Christmas. I said every day be achieving something.

I'm sorry, first of all, why do you want me to achieve nothing? I don't know. I was sort of riffing. I don't know what I said it. Okay. And secondly, what have you achieved this week, Helen Bower? It better be something big. I love what we looked to Andrew just to be like, Andrew, what have I?

Remember when I ate that chocolate twist a minute ago by the bin? Yeah. And then I threw it away before. anyone knew I had it? Yeah, we definitely... That wasn't bad. We definitely didn't both see you eating that at pace over the bin in Starbucks. I thought that was pretty impressive.

I... You know what? I put up two pictures this morning. I think that's pretty good. That's a positive contribution to the world. But, yeah, we put up two pictures. Who were the photos of? One is a painting of Mike Tyson biting off someone's ear.

And the other one is a painting of Mike Tyson and um you're lying feeding pigeons you're lying I'm not lying why do you have those and where are they in your house they're his where are they in your house hung up living room that's really nice it's like the two sides of Mike Tyson that's what he said he wanted them next to each other because he's like it tells

a story in your living room this is why you shouldn't live with men is in our living room and um please tell me across me you have some like vango or something just to have like I have, I have, um, that was an ear, forget it.

No, I, the ear thing, because Van Gogh cut off his ear. Or did he? I don't know. I've not met him. I think he did. It's all rumours. I tell you what I don't, it's not like hot artist gossip. Like, we don't know. We couldn't possibly say, I think it's known.

I've also achieved, um, watching all of Selling Sunset season four. I've never watched Selling Sunset. That feels mad for you. Yeah, because Georgia said the same thing to me. My best friend, Georgie was like, talking about season five is the new one. Four baby And she was like I had this fun fact

about it for you And I was like Oh I've never seen it And she was like This is But it's real estate I know It's so off brand

Right She was like all the houses Are big and clean Really clean Yeah I don't think any of those girls Have ever shit themselves Wow

Wow I'll check it Even when they had colonics They seem like colonic types Maybe they're colonic types Do you think really funny I went for a big roast With some of my friends yesterday

And then two of my friends Left and had three poops each How insane is that? That is an insane thing That is an insane thing that you know It's bad that you're Yeah, well, they were texting. Why is it in my brain up?

First of all, okay, first of all, hideous. Second of all, I think. No, that's got three poops from one roast. I think that's food poisoning, Helen. But I didn't poop and I had the same roast. Now I'm more, it's still, it's still in me. You're made of steel. Like, your stomach's obviously made of stronger stuff than there.

I have a full pork roast belly. They have a food, they have food poisoning. No, no, no, no, no. It wasn't like poopy food poisoning. It was like a poop, like a poop. Okay. Okay. I'm saying a poop to me.

A poop, a boop. Also, I just want to say that... So I've been thriving. What have you done? What I just discovered about myself is that I'm like, women who can afford colonics don't have to poop themselves. Like, what? Why is that a thing that in my head?

I'm like, aspirational. Where they shove water up your asshole and then suck it out? I think they feed it in and then it just, either they suck it out or it like falls out. I don't know. Okay, so obviously like... It goes that way. You're too rich to poop, so you have someone do it for you?

But then how do they get that amount of water in there? It must be it going at force. They pump it in, yeah. So sort of like a douche. I guess so. Andrew, what is a colonic? Oh, I don't know. Google it.

Okay, hang on. Why are you leaving? I didn't just look at you like, Andrew seems like he's had one. Obviously not. Andrew got his first manicure today. I will say that Andrew does look like he has a clean asshole. Thank you. I wouldn't assume that Andrew had a fucking filth.

the asshole. That's very kind of you. You're so fucking welcome. That's kind of you. I don't know. Like my asshole is like a bring and buy sale. Of like bits and bobs that have gone in me over the years. And you can find like remnants of it.

You know like those games on on TV where it's like look at all these items in a tray for like a minute. And then we're going to take the tray away and you've got to say everything that was on the tray. You could play that with stuff that came out my asshole. Okay. First of all. Bitter corn. Dillon. of all,

but it's not dirty. What? I'm joking. I've never had anal. I know. I do tell us every time it was the same level of disappointment.

Just to check in though, are you saying that your asshole is generally dirty? No, I'd say the, I don't, I mean, I wouldn't say it's like bleached. No, but people don't bleach it

for cleanliness reasons. It's based on a racist notion that assholes should be white. Really? Well, all beauty standards are set, That is disgusting. That is disgusting. I've got the definition if you want. You wanted to cut off our chat there about

whether or not ass bleaching is racist. Fine, Andrew, fine. I guess we'll never get to the important stuff. Please tell me what a clock? Go on. Wikipedia article makes this very clear not to be confused with an enema. Okay. To clean out all the toxins.

What's an enema? Shut up. Enema introduces fluids into the colon for medical reasons. Right. For like constipation and, and other sort of medical reasons. And other things that Andrew cannot think of.

Okay. And a colonic? Colonic therapy is to clear out in toxins from the anal tract. And how do they do that? Yeah, just pump up a bunch of water and fluids. And then how does it get out again? Oh, it doesn't actually say. But do they cost loads?

Wouldn't it be just easier to go to like a water slide and just like bend over hold you? and like let it gush in for that. The water has to be clean and not peed in by children. It's pretty clean. It's pretty clean at the spectrum of Guilford. No, it's not meant to be full of piss from children. Yeah, Romsey Rapids.

No. Romsey Rapids, is that your one? Yeah, yeah. Why would that be your go-to and not like getting your own like hose? The thing is you can do it with a shower head, right? You could like shove a shower head, like one of those like tiny little pointy ones. What tiny little pointy ones? Like have you never gone to a hotel where they've got like,

a tiny little shower head like it's just really pointless. And looks at it and thought I could fit that in my asshole, no. I think you'd want to like put it up your asshole and allow it all to shoot up and then take it out and then I guess as long as you're over a toilet it would just all just like fall out of you.

How'd you know when you're full? Does it start like you just feel it in your throat? I think you'd feel it. In your throat? I think you'd feel it. Maybe they measure it out depending on your size because I reckon I could take more water up the butt than you could. Why? I think I'm bigger than you. I reckon colon capacity-wise.

No, your colon doesn't carry weight. I think my colon's bigger than yours. I reckon there's a good 10 litres between you. I think so as well. No. 10, 10 litres is a bit. All right, Andrew. No, it's fine.

But like, I've never been on colon size before and I was saying I was bigger than her. But 10 litres. That was harsh, Andrew. That was really harsh. And actually, I, but also, sidebar, I don't believe that you could do it with him with. Like, 20 balls of fanta.

Like, it's like 20 fanta's difference between us, asshole size. But also, how long. I think I'm stronger than you so I think I could take more so actually if you'd like to sign up to our Patreon pay for us to do a competitive colonic we will not

partake in that but you know I 100% words I would I would too I would too I could come with measuring junk yes I would I would too also though because and then we could do the what came out thing

but also because my girlfriend told me that if you eat seeds apparently they never leave your intestines unless you get a colonic well I don't eat seeds okay but I did for a minute because I thought that was healthy and now I'm like they're all just living in me why they'll grow

I don't know it's scary you have to be really careful with those things because you imagine if like they put like 10 liters in you 20 liters of me as Andrew feels is the right size and out of you just comes our Catherine just comes like 10 a puppy feels

and just like a little Holland and Barrett selection Yeah, just a pumpkin, a pumpkin. Out of me, we just get bits of Lego puzzle. So many condoms. Cummy condoms. Two babies. I don't know.

That way. All the flavored lube you can ever want. Well, apparently there's no medical evidence that the chronic therapy is actually, it's. No shit, Andrew. But that's true. No shit. Yeah, I liked it. I liked it.

on obviously like you can't just pop water into your ass and then be like everything's toxin free it's like a constantly moving entity like that's basically like good to have like some toxins isn't that like it's like that thing of like um people like oh should get the earwax out there is which i totally get like it's such a satisfying thing to do but you actually the reason earwax is there is to help protect infection from getting in like it's all important stuff i don't think you're medical that doesn't say medically sound but also to me it's like you know when you see um people cleaning the like handrails on

escalators and they'll just like wipe the bits that they can touch but it's going around and everyone's touch it's like you can wash out your asshole like it's going to be dirty in another minute

I mean I clean my asshole I just don't think I don't get involved what do you mean you clean your asshole but you don't get involved do you mean like you clean the external yeah I don't go in but now I'm worried that like I've said that and then you're both going to be like

what do you mean you don't go in no I don't know Helen I agree like I'm not a freak I go in I go can't in I do the patio but there's no need

to do the indoors I think as far as as holes go you blow your nose you clean inside your mouth obviously with brushing teeth but everything else you're just external why are you looking at me

like you have had to remember you've had to memorize this no no no I remember my mom told me holes mouthy cleany nosey blowy actually my mom just told me

about the three Fs like she's like you've got to clean as your face fanny and feet and then you're good that's not true but it's like

when you're younger she was like just get your 3 F and then we're going to school and I was like okay what about the rest of you In that order I had such

Vaggy feet Oh my gosh I'm joking But the 3F's like a horse bath Do you ever do this? Oh my mom called it a bird bath Your mom called it a horse bath Your mom called you a bird bath

Well yeah we were in school What are you talking about She's not like Have your horse bath before we go to school Come on hell on what you can It's fucking is year four started in a minute. Okay, Mommy, I've got my animal project.

What's happening? Oh my God. Face, Fanny and Feet is the thing, the three Fs. I think what we're saying is welcome to episode 11. Of Drusty Hulks. Delighted to have you here. I actively just bit. We hope you're achieving.

At the very least, we hope you have your three F's clean. And also let us know if you're cleaning internally. This genuinely takes us quite nicely to what I was going to tell you about my morning, which is... I spent it with Mabel. Oh my God, I'm so happy for you. So first and foremost, if anybody doesn't know, Mabel, I met through Borrow My Doggy.

I've been walking over three years. She's the light of my life. You have a great connection to you and Mabel. Honestly, I don't know. Like, that dog gets me and she makes me calm and happy. And she's profoundly good for me. And I'm so lucky I met her. And that her owner lets me borrow her when I say,

like quite tragic voice messages. I think you're also good for Mabel. I think it's a mutually... I hope that's true. I hope that's true. She always seems happy to see me. But we... Also, she's just like...

She's very... She hates puddles. She barely tolerates a walk. This morning, Klem made her scrambled eggs because she wouldn't eat her kibble. She's such a princess. I love her so much. But, so she arrives

and she has beautiful, beautiful white fur. But occasionally she gets this like ginger tinge around her eyes, her paws. And let's be honest, let's be honest, her butt. Yeah. It's down her butt. Yeah. It's a bit ginger. She needs a bleaching.

Well, no, I would never say that to her. How dare you? Don't body shame, Mabel. But I was intrigued. I was like, why does she have these ginger bits on? Whereas I would like to have left that as a mystery. Clem was like, let's Google. So apparently lots of dogs for turns sort of like pinky, pinky, orangey,

ready because they get like it's basically from licking themselves too much um they also get it around their eyes it's from moisture so like if your dog gets wet too much or if it licks itself too much or around the eyes where they have tear ducks um a a yeast developed is that why it's orange apparently and then they love to lick it off and honestly oh which they're giving themselves a yeast infection to then lick the yeast infection i think so i didn't quite read it all because I was horrified and also I just like smothered my face in her and then I had to go watch. So it's like, it's a yeast infection. So, but I also love her so much.

And it turns out, but it turns out that like if my girlfriend was like I have a yeast infection, I'd be like, that's cool. We have to have different beds. When Mabel has a yeast infection, I'm like, I guess I'll just wash my hands and face after I smothered myself in you. I love her so much. I couldn't not. And also, I feel like a dog yeast infection. Like how likely is that?

that you would then get like an itchy vagina. I don't know. I don't know. But also I just want to say in case her owners. Itchy vagina? That tickled you that much. Yeah.

Andrew, grow up, Andrew. Andrew, grow up. Grow up. Oh my God. It's so mature sometimes. It's pathetic. It's not my own character podcast to defend myself. Yeah, you should actually.

I'll listen to it. I think there are already plenty of those. Just go listen, be a guest on a man's. Here's the thing. I am genuinely. don't know if it's true if there are any vets listening, please Oh yeah. Please let us know.

Tim or Dom? Oh my God, Tim or Dom let us know. One of them is a vet. Yes, one of the gay boys Timordam is a vet. We just don't know which is which. But what does the other one even do? Who knows? No one knows. I actually know. I actually know. He works in like production, like making videos and he's also fluent in British Sign Language. How great is that?

Sure, I guess. I listen to people. I listen and learn that doesn't help me with the dog thing no no it doesn't but that feels like right for a dog dogs always have like infections but it's cool

I just didn't have a dog when I was younger so I didn't know any of these things she's just my friend but what I would say is if her owner is listening I'm not body shaming I don't know any of this

to be factually accurate and I will find out if it kills me I will find out if the owner is listening I'm body shaming slightly but it's Mabel's crew look I get it

I feel like it's the dog equivalent of wanting to play with a spot so I'm the same. She's stunning. I would be a full-on orange dog if I was a dog. My favorite thing about this time of year is in December she gets out her little denim jacket. Oh, I die. I die. I just don't see how you haven't got a dog yet. I know it's like a renting and stuff in London. It's renting. But like just make it happen. It's getting bad. Recently I've taken to just like, okay, so I've had two false promises in the coffee shop from people who've said that I can walk their dogs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've obviously been like, they've,

I've been behind them in the queue. I love on their dog. And then I'm like, do you want my phone number? I can walk your dog. It's too much. It's too keen. It's too keen.

But also there are lovely people who come to Giglas who said I can borrow their dogs. So I need to go get on that. The Jesbians have said I can walk their dog. So I need to do that soon because honestly. But then I feel like I'm cheating on Mabel. It's weird.

No, you can't look at it that way because like Mabel's not with you 24-7. Do you not feel like she's seen other dog walkers? I'm telling you now. I'm telling you now. I'm sorry. What did you just say? She was on boarding my doggie.

She wasn't looking for anything exclusive. Whoa. That's like a guy going on Tinder and you think that he's never gone with anyone else for a walk. No, I don't think she'll still be on there. Have you checked? Lucy, are you listening? She won't still be on there. This is really heartbreaking.

Why would you do that, Helen? No. I thought that would be known. No, because early on I knew she had another. Early on she had this other lesbian couple. One of him was a doctor and one of him was Irish. So I was like, fuck this. but I think we phased them out.

I assume I phased them out. Who do you think bought Mabel the denim jacket? Oh, you whore. You have your whores bath. You what her whore? No, I don't think she has anybody else. Have you spoken to Mabelablex exclusivity? I don't think you have.

Oh my God. How am I the bad person right now? We hand feed her scrambled eggs. Yeah. But where did she get the taste for scrambled eggs? Her granny. Her granny makes her eggs Okay, okay

Well, I didn't know that, did I? Her granny's the one who was like She loves an egg And also doesn't mind a bit of cheese either Am I right? Yeah, she was... That always makes me think of mousetrapped Remember that film

And the dog was allowed to cheese? Okay I... Oh my God, this should not be As much of a big deal as it is. You got broken up with last year And you see more upset right now You did.

Well, Mabel's a great girl. I don't know what to tell you. I just can't lose her. I can't lose her. You're going to get a dog one day and until then I feel like you do have dogs in your area I do wonder sometimes

you come on too keen with like let's swap numbers I will walk your dog I think there is something I mean I get it because it's like I can't date because it's sort of like

I'm either all in or like nothing at all I am too intense but it's a great quality of yours and I think you're matching the dog's energy but you need to match the human's energy

okay yeah you're right you're right I am I'm going in way to strong and now there are like three people I see and they've not called me back and it's just awkward But I'm also worried that you'll now know this new fact about yeast infections around dog's eyes

and if you see a dog with orange around its eyes you'll be like, do you know what that is? I won't. No, I won't. I'm not that bad. But I do need to stop getting on the floor and just talking to the dog rather than asking if the person needs... And even then, it doesn't really make sense out of context because I don't have... Do you not get on the floor when you see a dog?

I do. I ask. That's what everyone does. I ask first. I love dogs. I ask. I always ask. I say, may I say... I got bitten by a dog. Okay. What did you do? I you know what this is so weird I was so I was out of my friend now I must have been like 22 or something like that

and we were out and her neighbor came and joined us and he was like an older guy like not older like 30 or something and we were drinking we were having loads of fun and then we needed to get more wine before going back to his and literally neighbors and I was like oh man I'm so desperate for a piss and they were going to an off license and I was like can I just go off and go to the toilet he's like oh yeah yeah my dog's up there and I was like cool no worries no worries he was like oh just say hello when you go in and got up to the toilet I knew the layout was flax was exactly the same as my friends and I got his keys and I went in and went like hi to the dog

rancher upstairs, went to the toilet came back down and this dog was just like and I was like oh dear so I just like give it space just ignore it, wait for them to come home I couldn't get to the door to let them in because this dog was growling at me and I'd never seen it before

Oh my god From the dog's point of view though It's just a random woman who's just running to the house And like pissed So like Totally. Territory ownership. Totally.

Presumably if it was you, was it just a wee? It was a wee. Okay, just a wee. It was a very classy wee. Okay, a wee. You were drunk. You'll have stomped upstairs if you're drunk.

I like, I will have bound it up. Yeah. You wee. Oh, I'm not blaming the dog. It's just, it's just been a good lesson in Home invasion? They get spooked.

Yeah. And then I was trying to get to the door. It was really frightening. And this dog just went, and it like went straight from my hand. And it like nothing came off or anything. But it was like a good, bleedy bite.

And it just gave me enough of their awareness now that I don't really go down to their level like I'm just unless like there for a second I understand that is really frightening that's really frightening because it's like I've seen how they can switch now

but also then like knowing that dog for a little bit afterwards I was like no it just hasn't been trained either like it really I was just I'm going to say because I do feel like it's so unfair no dog is naturally a like predisposed to well I think

if animals have routine and good training they don't respond viciously it's like fighting dogs are nobody's like it's like how people don't like staffies and it's like staffies are the gentlest sweetest most loyal

most loyal dogs they are not inherently violent you have to train them to be so usually through like horrible methods and it's like I'm really sorry that happened but also like they're bad people and it doesn't mean all dogs are bad

and you know which dogs are fucking awful African painted dogs What? They are in the zoo in Chester. Oh my God. Oh, for goodness sake. They're called, I think they're called African Painted Dogs. They're like wolves.

And they're on one of my favorite TV shows, the secret life of the zoo. They're not domesticated. They live in a zoo. Catherine, have you heard of lions? They're absolutely ravage. They haven't actually done some of those lions. I didn't mean that.

I meant savage. Okay. Andrew's horny for lion. Helen doesn't like them as pets. And also because I struggle, because basically one of my favorite TV shows was The Secret Life for the Zoo. I loved it.

Now, I know zoos are a very tricky topic for a lot of people. I hadn't been to zoos for ages because I was like, oh, they're really, really bad. I also have a little sister who has severe special needs and she fucking loves going to the zoo. So I made a piece with the fact that I have to go to a zoo once a year

and it's depressing how much I actually enjoy it. I fucking love the Secret Life for the Zoo. It was a show on Channel 4 and it was reality TV show where the animals were the stars. They would have on each of the... Do you remember this time? This was a couple of years ago before we did the podcast and I was really upset about that tortoise.

Helen, this podcast only started like 11 weeks ago. You don't need to be like, it was a couple of years ago before we started the podcast. How long does it feel like we've been doing this to you? 10,000 years. So, oh God, no, Helen, trigger warning if you're going to tell this tortoise story. You're really bad at trigger warnings.

Wow. Wow. I think we need like a trigger warning, trigger warning. Yeah, I think so do. Catherine's not going to trick a warning, my trigger warning. Can I just maybe say the truth? Can I just, can I, here's my trigger warning. Helen is going to talk about non-consensual sex between turtles. Radiated tortoises.

My apology. It's okay. Can we say non-consensual sex? Yes. Great. Whatever the right wording is, you say it. I'd say that. Okay.

So Secret Life of the Zoo, it was supposed to be a really humble show where they show the keepers who look after the animals and how they take care of them and how they like, just like how they like have babies and like looking after them and it's like the different personalities of the animals. But like every episode without fail, one of them would die and I would always take it so badly.

It was like, the ultimate sort of like, it's like watching this as us, right? You know you're not going to be happy at the end of the episode but you know you're going to watch another one. Yeah, yeah. And it was like I was in a bad headspace. Tragedy porn. tragedy porn

and like this little oh my god all the baby elephants kept dying so kept them getting elephant chlamydia and it was just like awful

it was awful I was sorry what they got this there's an absolute pandemic of elephant chlamydia and zoos it's a bloody nightmare are they having sex

I don't bloody know well they're all siblings I don't know it was awful and they've got this chameleon called Mr Parsons who no

Guan even and they've been trying to greet him for so long and they eventually managed to find like and Mrs Parsons

and Mrs Parsons but every time he like has an opportunity to have sleep with someone he fucks it and they got this one from a zoo in Paris isn't that what they want they got no they got like a lady one from a zoo in Paris and they were like this will be great they're gonna mate and there's like hardly any of them left Parisian iguanas are the sexiest iguanos she was a fucking dick she literally sat in the corner of the cage and watched him walking over to her for three days and then he nearly made it and on his last step he fell off She was like, I'm not doing it. And she's never going to, she's never going to sleep with him now. She doesn't want to have that inside of her. And it was so awful because all the keepers were like, oh, he keeps having these mistakes.

Like, no, he's gay. He's just finding an excuse not to fuck her. And it's like, he knows if he falls. But he's like, it was such a long fall. He was like, huh. I love her. She knows her worth. She's like fucking work for it.

Really, really. But then they have to send her to another zoo in, like, China to try and find a new mate. But basically, I followed this one. One storyline so intensely, the radiated tortoises, so there are a group of them. What does that mean a radiated tortoise? It's a breed of tortoise. It's a type of tortoise. They emit heat. They're in hot climates. They love hot climates. And they will have like little shells and all of their, like they make loads of points all over their shell. Oh, cute. They're very sweet. And they were all girls. It was just like a hen house of tortoises. And they

were called like Mary and Catherine and Jane and Sophie. And then they had one boy who lived with them called and there was one female... Was he a school friend? Mm-hmm. Okay. Oh, wow. I don't like that. Oh, wow, okay.

Because one of the tortoises didn't have a classic name. One was called smooth sides. Smooth sides. Smooth sides. I love smooth sides. I was up for smooth sides having a fun anecdote as to why she was called smooth sides. Yeah, smooths like. Because that happens every now and again with naming animals.

Yeah, and also they're all in a girl house. Like, maybe like they went out and had a funny night and she was called Smithside. Smooth sides. Smooth sides. Smooth sides was named Smooth Sides. Because Burt was fucking her so repeatedly that the side of her shell had been smoothed down like a mirror to the point where she'd lost her shape of a tortoise. And I know that's non-consensual. I know I can't speak on behalf of the tortoises.

It's not consensual. They named her after her... Yeah. Her trauma. They trauma named her. It's awful. Why didn't they just call her victim one and be done with it? The thing is, he kept going for her

because she was so easy to climb on top of. Because of the... Yeah. And you could tell some sides was breaking in spirit. Yeah, she's been named Easy Target. I know. It's like naming your daughter. Like, I'm not going to play that one.

Even I need to stop. Even I needed so I was like But smooth sides So then they were like Okay well we need to fix this Because smooth sides is really miserable And in pain So they were like

Oh let's say Now they've decided to fix this Eventually they removed Burt and put him in a separate enclosure Finally somebody did something And then Burt Faked Depression

I'm telling you it was faked It was so obvious He was like Oh there's no one No one to sleep with here Was he like Was he like I had a really

tough childhood too. Awful. Fuck off, bird. So they were like, oh, well, I'd rather smooth sides be abused than have Burt be sad. They put Burt back in, then they tried, getting another

they got another radiated tortoise called football, which obviously is going to be someone who sexually assaults. That's mad. And they bring football in, and football also went straight for smooth sides because she's so easy to climb. So then she was just getting assaulted by football

and Burt. And then I, then She wasn't on the next season and seek her life for the zoo So me and my sister had to go up to Chester Now where is she? Is she okay? I've been up to visit her the last two years Oh she's still on. I have to pay for a hotel

It's a long weekend Both times I've been up Both times I've been up She's been sleeping Surrounded by the other women Which I think is so beautiful She is protected But Bert's still alive

Where were they in the hen house Though she could have done with a protection then I know I know And I'm paying about 300 pounds because she's not been on another series of the show to go make sure she's all right

because no one else cares I care I found one blog about her and that's it I care I want to come that was actually such a beautiful story Andrew as the only male voice in the room do maybe want to tone down the laughter

I'm so sorry wow she doesn't even look like a tortoise anymore Andrew what does she look like a triangle like a triangle Smooth. Just like a smooth ball.

Oh. If anyone wants to see any more about this, my Instagram stories does have a highlight called SmoothSides, which tells the whole story over the last four years. It's been quite a journey. I didn't want you to tell the story, and ultimately, I think if we ever become more famous, it will come back to Haunted.

I think that regardless... It's a great time to introduce our guests today. Her truth needed to be told. Actually, justice for smooth sides. I know. I feel like I did mess up those trigger warnings, but I also feel like it is an important story to tell. Oh, I agree.

You were appalling, but also... It was important. Smooth sides deserves justice. And I'm on the side of smooth sides. Like, I'm checking up on her. Like, I care. And also, I honestly think Mary, Catherine, Sophie and... The other girls.

The other girls... Yeah. Could have done fucking more at the time. Where were they at the time? So we're blaming the women now for Burt's actions? No. No, but I am saying a bit of rallying could have gone a long way. I think, like, put Burton football somewhere, let them die, and let the gals just live out of the years.

Oh, I agree, but I think where was a protective circle when she needed them? You're right. You're right. Okay, there's a lot going on here. Secret Life for the Zoo, Channel 4. All episodes available on 4 OD. Because they need promotion on our podcast. All episodes available on 4OD.

Anyway, it's time to introduce our guest for today. I'm so excited. I love her so much. I know you love her so much. We're such big fans. She's genuinely so funny and one of the first comics I watched obsessively

when I started comedy She is so, so funny We're so lucky to have her here and she's a badass So please welcome to the trusty hogs club It's Evelyn Mock! It's Evelyn Mock! Yay!

Hi! Hogs, Andrew here to read our list of wonderful producers and executive producers These are all people who have supported us at patreon.com forward slash trusty hogs. They've pledged a certain amount of money per month, but you can do it from as little as three pounds to get the episodes 24 hours earlier than everyone else. Or for just five pounds, you get a whole extra episode every single week. For example, this week's Patreon extras features exclusive chat from this week's episode with Evelyn Mock. We talked to her about her biggest achievements of the last year and the secret cocktail bar in M&M World, Lester Square.

Is it real? Did she go? What did she get? You'll have to go to the Patreon extras to find out. And fair warning, I think Helen back references Eminem's a few points later in the chat. So if you're wondering why, that is why it's all in the Patreon extras. So that's well worth checking out. And these lovely people are getting mugs. We sent out lots of mugs, personalised mugs that say producer and then the person's name, or indeed executive producers. And if you're an executive producer, you get your own personalized hogs episode. So we've recorded two of those and we got a third one to do. because we have a new executive producer,

so they will have their own personalised trusty hogs episode. And that person is a wonderful, Janina Bautista, who is joining the ranks of Simon Moors and Guy Goodman. Our lovely executive producers, thank you so much for your support.

And indeed, our wonderful producers. We've got Sarah and Molly, the Duvee Ladies. That's quite a long name for the Mug, so they might want to send in something else, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Thank you, Sarah and Molly.

Thank you, Aideen McQueen, Caitlin Lith, Joe Holmes, Zoe, Kim Dovgal. I'm so sorry, Kim, we did establish how to pronounce your name, and I was kind of trusting Catherine to remember it, and I didn't think I'd have to film this insert myself. But thank you, Kim, thank you Liam Myers-Koff, thank you David Walker, thank you Tim and Dom, Kira Leach, Richard Bicknell, S.B. Dubbs, L, Richard Ball, Sadie Cashmore, Neil Redmond, Claire Owen Jones, Rachel R, Victoria Hutchison, Jess and Nick, Emma Walton, Karen Bull, Anthony Conway and Harold Van Dyck.

You're all absolute legends. We love you so, so much. If you would like to join that list of names, go to patreon.com forward slash trusty hogs. Enjoy the rest of the episode. It's Evelyn Bloody Mark. I love Evelyn Moore. We love Evelyn Mark.

We're so happy you're here. Evelyn Mark has been the conversation in our flat all weekend. Why? The hotel went to your birthday lunch and was just blown away by the vegan Chinese food. Yes. That he has been talking about it nonstop. So we went to a place called tofu vegan. Okay.

Where's that? It's an angel. It's an upper street. You guys should go. You told me a lot about it. It was really, really good. And it was like, the thing is like because there's a thing where Asians are like just like, they don't believe of veganism.

And so this existing is really funny. Okay. Did you go there as a joke? I went there as a bit and I brought all of my convenience friends with me yeah yeah prank

yeah what this is we're just eating this ironically that's a nice birthday though like dinner with all your friends yeah lovely it was it was like I was like because I didn't want something big

because of you know that but then also like it's I don't have anywhere to have it and then so I was like okay let's get the people let's get a manageable group And then we get like, and also Harriet Kemsley came.

And she is infamously vegan. She's not. She's not at the moment. I'd say loose with the word vegan. I shouldn't know she was a vegan. She's a vegan with bad principles. Is that? She's not eating meat.

She doesn't eat meat. Yeah. But she's eating dairy. I'd say she's loose with like the rules of veganism. We also give context. Harriet's hella pregnant. I think you get to play a fast and least with your food. Yeah.

I have said that baby is craving me and she's not doing it. Really? I swear I'm going to say that. That's like Phoebe on Friends when Phoebe was pregnant. But Harriet is Phoebe on Friends? She is? Yes, she is. Like, does that make Bobby Mike?

Oh. That's really funny. I think Bobby wishes he was Mike. That's so, Bobby Mayor for a context. Who is the character who they're scared of in the first season who lives in the basement and then he shaves and they all passing him? Bobby is that as well as. Mr. Heckels.

Yeah. Oh, nice, nice, nice, nice. Well, they're having a beautiful baby. We're very excited for them, but you went to per vegan food and it was delicious. Yes, it was really good because I wanted to. I was like, because every time I've been with Harriet, she's not eaten because she's vegan and the places we go to never cater. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I was like, I want to cater to everyone. And so it was like, but the thing is like, because Chinese food, because there's a lot of carbs in Chinese with like noodles and rice and stuff, pride food. But this, and so it makes you bloated. It makes you really full and place. But she's already pregnant. I know. Nice.

Exactly. So she didn't explode. Amazing. Tofu vegan. Did you explode? I almost exploded. What did you order from tofu vegan? So we ordered mock.

Yes. We ordered like, what is it, mouth-watering mock chicken. I'm so glad it was mouth-wintering. Yeah. Otherwise, what's the point? I know. I know. How are you going to get it down?

How are you going to get it down? If it's not mouth-watering. It could be risky because it's like either with Chinese food, it's like they mean, oh, your mouth is going to water when you get this food. Or it means that somebody's mouth water is used in the food. Because that's like Chinese, like, they have a dish called like birds nest soup. And it's just like, they're like, yeah, it's the saliva that the bird uses to make the nest that's really good. And so we're putting it in the food.

Does it taste good? You know, you never know. I've never had that. It's just thick. Okay. Oh, I thought it was made up. I thought you were doing a bit. Oh, my God.

I remember the nest of a bird. I saw a century egg and I was like, and it's just tea stained, right? No, no. It's like, I knew I was lied to. I ate it. I knew it wasn't the tea steak. There are tea stained eggs, but that's not it.

No, that's a moldy egg. I got a fucking lied to. That's an egg that's been buried. Yeah. Oh my God. Who had that? I ate it. Who lied to you?

Chinese aunties. Yeah, they are very good liars. The good people of China. The fucking Chinese aunties are. La Lumpur. Well, I've got La Lumpur.

They fucked me up. You were in K.L. eating a, like, a fermented egg. Well, you know I've got Malaysian family.

What? We have talked about this before on the podcast. I don't listen to most of what you say. It's so loud. Are you serious?

Andrew, you've heard this before, right? Yeah. Thank you. I always find out something new about Helen.

Every time I'm with Helen. What are you talking about Malaysian? Because like half my family in Malaysian, we definitely said this before. Wait, she did not listen,

Andrew. You are right. I genuinely didn't... You are right. I didn't process this. And then I have some Chinese aunties. What are you talking about? In Malaysia.

I had a little Chong Sam when I was younger. Did you really? And a Salwar Camese to please both sides. What does that mean? A Chongsam is like a long dress. Yeah, it's like a Chinese traditional dress. Yeah. What?

So you look... I was cultural appropriation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To the top as a little white garba blonde hair. It was great though because I was like golden. curls and they used to pass me around all the Chinese restaurants because like gold brings you gold and they'd all touch me and make you feel like a princess

so that I was an absolute asshole by age five. I see why you're a comedian only auntie dought can touch my hair. Oh my gosh. But I got lied to a lot and ate a lot of the food that I was like I'm not even sure if this is, but it was mainly Malaysian food. But it's an entertaining thing. It's like

it's something that Asian aunties entertain themselves with like lie to foreigners. Yeah, yeah. To get them to eat food. And they'd always be like, oh, we've removed all the spice because, like, the white bowers are coming instead of the bauagani's. And then, but it would still be really spicy.

And then, like, the Chinese aunties would cover the fruit with salt so it wouldn't look bad. But then I would eat it with salt, not sugar, salt, like fucking psychopaths. And then I would eat it. And I'm like, it doesn't feel like, that's not cultural, that's cruel. Yeah, that's just, that's your family. For a display. It was awful.

But I would eat it. But then, like, I'm such a force feeder of myself. I'm like, no, I love it. Like, okay, so you have to, who, how did you get an Asian family? Yeah, thank you. I didn't know where to begin to ask. Heritagely, and I think I will be respected for that. No, it my uncle married a Malaysian woman.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So then it's like that, the gang. Okay, cool, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're mainly in K. That's really like, because. And Perth. Yeah, yeah, Malaysia's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. My first boyfriend was Malaysian.

Really? Yeah, Irish Malay. Oh my God. Oh, my God, are we full, like, Malaysian here? I guess so. Well, Selimat Dattano. No, I'm not doing this with you. What?

What is this happening? You're so white. What's happening? Selimant Dattang, babe. What's happening? What is that even? I get why I'm on this episode now. I'm here.

I'm like, I am here. to okay the shit, am I? Am I? Actually, Evelyn's here because Evelyn was my first boyfriend. I was Catherine's first boyfriend. No, he was a Malaysian called Darren. A sweet boy.

Darren. I did a podcast with a Malaysian called Nigel, so yeah. Yeah, listen, and how it will come from. My cousin's called Ross. I've got something that's called like Shazley and Razor. He was half Irish, be there. We mixed it around. He was half Irish.

Yeah, very cruel to me. So we don't have to blame with the first. Did he do those things The hell and he was 22 and I was 18 and people had jerks to each other then and then But also I shouldn't have stopped with the boy who lived literally around the corner

because then we saw each other on every commuter train forever It's convenient It is and also he was the only one who would So You take what you can You take what you get You take what you get She's so pretty

No no she was a hod It was fucking gross I was Gross I'm Catherine I'm on the debate team Yeah I didn't get eyebrows until I was 24 I was like, yeah, there is.

I had to buy them. I swear to you, I was hide to you. She still past them every year. I want to see a photo. Oh, I'll, okay. I think my girlfriend, my girlfriend describes, my girlfriend describes me as the only child she's ever seen to look pregnant.

Like, I was hideous. So we'll get there, but yeah, I'm fine. That's so funny. I'm glad you had a great birthday. You know when you see a kid, they've got big bones, but you don't want to say it. They've got big bones. It's got smaller, but we don't know how.

Honestly, I looked, I was horrendous. But that's fine. This is so fun, yeah. I still have so much more to ask about your birthday. Oh, yeah, yeah. As a friend slash fan of you and Stu Laws, Stuart! I love Stuart Laws.

I just went to see a show at the Soho Theater. He's great. So good. So, so good. I know, I knew it was good because you wouldn't have brought that up if it was bad. Oh, no, imagine. Like, I went to see a show at Soho Theater. Oh, my God.

Yeah, you just don't say you ever went. You never tell anyone, that's correct. Yeah, that's true. Did you go the night when the guys were late coming in and they just went, what was it? They just went. No one was late, no. Okay, okay, that's another time.

I went on the Friday night. That must have been a Saturday night. Yeah, I think it was a Saturday night. Oh, damn it. No, I went Friday night where that's a Niel Patel. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You're worried of them, you know him?

I did, but he keeps avoiding my calls, and he never calls me back. And then today he hasn't wished me a happy birthday. I'm an actual birthday. Yeah, he's your actual birthday. Like, today's my actual birthday. Did you not say happy birthday? Happy birthday.

I said happy birthday. I didn't know. Oh, no, happy birthday. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Oh, my baby. Let's do a birthday tit-wank on earth's birthday. Let's do a birthday tit-wank on Evelyn.

Do you want a birthday tit-wank? What if ever... It's your 34th birthday, where you give her a wink. No, does no one else do that for their friend's birthday? What are you talking about? A birthday. A birthday. Do you not want one?

They don't, she doesn't want that. Oh, is this a consent thing again? Yes. Evelyn, I'm sorry you didn't consent. Evelyn, Evelyn, I'm sorry I didn't get your consent. What are you yelling at? Wait, first you touched my boob and then you're yelling. Helen, that is unacceptable.

Happy birthday, Emily. Evelyn, I'm sorry that Helen is a weird birthday tradition. I have a different birthday tradition. You want to touch my boob? What's your birthday doing it? Okay, very, thank you. What was that? An E?

No, it's my bra. No, no, no, like the size guy. She's guessing your size. She's not an E. It is a neat. Yeah. It is a me. How did you know?

What? What is it happening? Oh. How did you get the size rise? I was like, what are we, what are we? I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

I'm loving this. Okay. Can I just check it? Is that your special skill? Did you just guess her cup size? Some people have GCSEs. Callant, do me, do me. Some people, I know yours.

No, you don't. I don't want to get involved in it. Guess. Okay. Guess. Guess. Oh, God, it's so intimate. So intimate.

Oh, my gosh, she's squeezing. Do you have to squeeze? If you're listening in an audio form. Evelyn isn't padded at all. Right. This has got padding. Yes. Which does, we will throw me off.

Yeah. Now, can you tell me padding ends. here? Yeah, off the top of it's out there. It's like watching you like a

32C. So close. What are you? A 32B. Oh my God. It was the padding's fault. I can't do padding. Evelyn's just going like

I mean with that rack you're fine, you're free falling. There's padding. So it does throw me off a bit. But also how did you just fondle my nipple and guess my back size? It's like what is that possible? She's like the gun.

of like, of boobs. Andrew, top off. That was insane. How did you get her circumference? I've never worked

in bras or anything like that, but I really think I'd thrive in that area. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Just like, just your personality,

just like without this weird, like, special power that you have. That was phenomenal. I'm like so taken back. I don't know what to. I send me pictures of your boobs. Okay,

before, no, no, Helen, no. Come to my night. live show line up afterwards and I'll tell you bro. No, do you guys... Do you release the video as well? Yeah. Yes. Thank you. Yeah, there'll be clips of her feeling your boobs.

I want this in my life forever. Will me be happy, happy birthday. Yes. Yes. Of you molesting me and then just like guessing my bra size and everything's okay. Yes, I'm out clawing it back. It's like, sure, I touched your boob that you can send but while I'm here, you want to meet a measure you?

I'm not good at many things, so it's nice when I'm good at something to be able to do it. That's stunning. What a recovery. Hey, before we do the problem, the listener.

What I'm a B? Lynn? I don't know. Fuck you pose. Fuck you pose. Okay. What are you? I'm a full G, baby.

Whoa. Do you want to? 4G, full G. You got to go under because I'm not, I don't wear wires. You know what wire? Oh, it looks heavy. It is so heavy.

Oh my God. It is very heavy. You just placed. that onto Evelyn's hand like a gift. You have to place it like. Yeah you have to yeah Helen has a place. Oh. The thing is like get off the table. She has put herself on there because I can't do that. Mine are to be honest. Same Evelyn. I'm so I mean to talk into the no mine are not perky. Just for the listener I just want them to know that Helen just lifted up her breast and placed them on the table. She placed them on the table and before that

she placed her breasts into my palm. Otherwise you won't understand the size of it. You have to go to understand and then you feel the wire and if they're wearing padding. And I'm so sorry we're derailing this but this is like because the thing is because when you're a bigger lady you're supposed to have that but I have small ones for being a big lady

I can't but the thing is like I can't put them on the table like mine don't need like I can't put them on the table like Helen did I'm also assuming here Evelyn you aren't wearing your bra at like the full height oh my God she's a fucking wizard

I'd say you've got like a tiny bit there but you aren't wearing it like this. Wait, you mean back boot? No, no, like, you know the strap? Uh-huh. I've got this up here, my's full tight. I think yours isn't that tight. No, mine's like loose.

Exactly. Mine's full loose. So if you had it full tight, then they would be sitting there. Oh my God. Oh my God. What are we just learned about consent? May I be this? It doesn't count afterwards.

Do I not have consent for like an hour? No. Because I have a great. to come on the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I have an hour with Evelyn's breasts. No, you have to

consens. No. Each time. Consent is ongoing and must be checked in on. And also isn't given just because somebody agrees to be on your podcast

and says it's their birthday. Stop playing with the death. You must look at me. Listen to me. Consent is important. Let's move on. Oh my God. Evelyn Maugh.

Let's see my birthday. I'm going to take you to Rick Impala later, Evelyn, and you're going to have a lovely time. I think I need to go. My birthday tradition involves in no touching. I hope that's okay.

I think the birthday is also likely your name is chicken death day. No, all of Helen's neighbors chickens died on my birthday so she thinks that's my fault. It's not my fault.

It's really weird that you have neighbors that are chickens. Yeah, I agree. It's really weird. I love that phrasing. No, but so in my house we do a little tradition

which is I would like to know, please, the three things you are most proud of that you've achieved as a 33-year-old. And the three things you hope to achieve in the next year. That's disgusting, but I love it. It's really sweet.

Tell me the three things that you're pleased about that you did this year. Chaos to like really like gratefulness. Yeah, yeah, like gratitude. Yeah. I was actually going to Helen's just shaking her left boob at me. Let her think about what she's happy to have achieved this year, not what she regrets most. I wish you were lactating because it was just like. You don't think I am?

Oh, no. That's not going to do. I drove back to I lived on my jumper and just like a four yogurt A muller light just flew on to her face

Why is there got to be a muller light Because it's the one that came to my mind All right Angie Do you have a problem? Let's do this Okay Who's it from Andrew? This is from N

N. N. N. Oh, they're anonymous N N. Do you think it's Nish Kulman? No, I think it's Nish Kuma. No, I don't think it's Nish Kuma.

No, I don't think it's Nish Kuhmer. No, Italy or nationally. Do you reckon it's the N from MNN? No. It's a bit of a reach. Okay. The N from MN.

Go on, high N. And on the theme of boundary setting, perhaps. So they started a new job in 2019. Congrats. Socialized with people in the office. And one of the people that they work with lived in the same suburb. Lovely. Fast forward, March 2020.

In lockdown, they're one of their kind of nearest, like, locale friends. Yeah. So they spend a lot of time in their gardens. socialising, getting to know them. That's nice. However, they've realised having spending time with them is feeling quite claustrophobic. And they especially feel that as a queer couple,

they are a novelty for them, as they've not mentioned knowing any other gays. Hang on a second. Wait, so the person who is, they're like hanging out with a colleague who is like fetch-sizing them as a gay couple a little bit. Wait, because N has a... A partner.

It's in a relationship with a same-sex relationship. Okay. They feel that they're like a novelty for this person. Okay. So they want to reduce the amount of time spent with this person and their spouse, but they don't want to alienate them because they still have to work together. How do I, and this is the exact wording, I'm not, how do I be more Catherine and set those boundaries

while also being more Hufflepuff and spare their feelings? Are you Hufflepuff? That is the implication, I guess, of the email. That's kind of mean? It's kind of interesting because... No, it's fine. In general, Catherine, you are better at setting boundaries, but I've also learned about grey rocking in the last year.

I've learned about grey rocking. First of all, can I say, I don't think I am. I think I'm learning about boundaries. I think because I think we talked about it's an early episode that you had to set a boundary quite clearly with someone in your life this year, which is quite recent. And I haven't...

So just so you've got... got a bit of context as to why I'm giving advice on this. I have set boundary people. I've never had the chat where I set the boundary. I've just sort of done it and just allowed them to notice. But it's usually because being around them hurts my soul because they hurt me. But do you mean like you just stop hanging out with them and then they just have to notice it? Only one person and like it was just very natural.

And I could have done with set in a boundary about two years ago that would have saved me a lot of stress and misery. but I didn't at the time and I think it's a retrospective thing that I've learned about and I've been like locked down time at a great time for me yeah yeah yeah yeah but I would like to

first of all I'd like to answer this person's question but I also before that I want to check in what is grey rocking do you go for it you go for it so well grey rocking is basically I learned about it through when it comes to dealing with narcissistic personalities a person who has narcissistic personality disorder

is usually quite if you are the target of their narcissistic supply, which means that they get their energy from you, basically, then they, you know, they'll be quite emotionally abusive towards you and stuff, manipulative and stuff. And so gray rocking is basically not engaging as in like when you notice, and it does demand you to be aware of all of kind of the triggers or all of the ways that they will try to engage you. And so gray rocking is basically like you're like, if they say something, you just

oh that sounds bad like you don't really give them anything to hook up on it hook up onto so like you don't respond to their stuff but also you don't give them anything yeah it's just sort of like another gray rock on the beach like they say something it's like there and like why would you say that person goes and because people sometimes can like if you're not giving them anything will like dig a bit deeper and like say things that you that they know that you would maybe want to discuss you know and it's like for them asking this question just to be like no it's all good everything's cool and it's hard to do

you feel rude and blunt doing it but it is a learnt behaviour that you can do and it's a good way for someone who has let's say I mean the person that I'm talking about is not an artistic behaviour necessarily but it's like people who just aren't in control of how they're treating you

or what they're doing because of any reason just to be like they probably won't pick up on your grain rock and then they really don't but you feel like they would. But you haven't, but you're no longer costing yourself whatever it cost you to be exactly. Fascinating. Sparing yourself the emotional. Well, let's answer end because I think a couple of things, if I may, is that like one, this shift from not, from pandemic to non-pandemic is

actually your friend here. You are, you couldn't be expected and shouldn't be expected to have the same amount of time available to that person who's your local friend. Yeah. Because you have to get back to work and because, and I think you can lean on as a also as like one, you're busier. but two, like, it's all been incredibly difficult and very tiring and you can use those to a degree to sort of like justify way you don't have as much time but also you're now presumably seeing them in work as well so you could try to swap out a little bit

so like I sounds like it might be easier to grab a lunch with this person without your partners at work than it is to have a couple's evening where you can't necessarily be objectified or fetishized but also the other thing I think I think it's really important to remind yourself, if you're anything like me, is to go, who's like a people pleaser,

but trying to set boundaries, is to remind yourself, you're not actually doing anything wrong. Yes. And I don't think that can be said enough when you are boundary setting. No, that's true. You're doing nothing wrong

by wanting to spend a little bit less time now that life is back and it's busy and you are friends of circumstance. Yeah. And you can be kind in that. But I think it's absolutely fine to arrange fewer times. And another thing I find with friends

who like always want to see you is to try to get out of the habit of setting a time to see other every time you leave just go oh let's see yeah well let us know rather than like having to be like and to set that expectation that you see each other immediately the next time but with the gay thing yeah that must be tough because i was wondering that like they must be objectifying them then or like are they saying phrases like oh it's so fun to have gay friends or like are they doing that because it can come from a place of like excitement and people trying to

to be like, but also if it's constantly invasive questions, I find that's often what it is. It's like... Oh, sort of like, really, so like old aunt at a wedding, sort of like... Well, when you're the only queer friend, I think people do ask you a lot of, like, questions as a queer couple and you're like, it's the same as you. Like, it's the same as you.

Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that's where you could grey rock. Yes. Yeah. In that part of your relationship, if they ask invasive questions, just be like, oh, same as anyone. And it's going to feel so awkward when you start doing it. I think with anything like this,

like you feel like you're being rude, you feel like you're upsetting someone, you feel like you've got to explain yourself. Like you owe them something. But you won't feel that way in even a year's time. Like it's the things that feel so huge at the moment don't feel that way down the line

and you will get there eventually. It's not worth all the stress it's giving you now. Yeah, yeah. Like, let them go. But it's completely hard. And especially when you live near each other. But the other thing I'd say is

if you do wish to continue spending some time with them, maybe change the dynamic of what you're doing. So, like, it sounds like you're doing a lot of sitting around, drinking wine and talking, maybe if you're in the garden or whatever your habits were. Where you will open up naturally and some people do feed off that. So, like, personal information. So is there an opportunity to say, the world is open again. Let's go do something.

Go watch a movie. Go do an activity where it's actually something you want to do, but you're also getting, ticking the box. I love how you're giving other options to hang out. And I'm like, calm out. Gone, gone, go on the office. But I didn't get the sense from end that they want to cut them out completely

but rather that they want to diminish the time spent Yeah. And also like something a friend told me which was really like great. She was like, you spent so much time thinking about, you know, how your actions are going to affect somebody else's feelings whereas the person you're actually thinking about

has their behavior? Yeah, like can you tell from their behavior have they thought about your feelings? and it's like oh no they haven't so it's like oh then don't feel bad about it yeah and then another alternative yeah right yeah it's like oh yeah that's true if you feel you're like oh this person doesn't think about my feelings that way and you're like okay well then I'm not going to do the same give the same courtesy but then um another thing is also like if you want to you could choose to have that tough conversation but then that is it'll be awkward because you work together but then it's

also like then you will deal with the actual issue and if they're a person that that is also mature they'll apologize and try to be better that's true I think the fear is you'll have this conversation and they'll either completely deny it so you feel mad which is the tricky one yeah or it will be a conversation going onwards but knowing that it will be altered for a good long time after that like that is still tricky to bounce back from two things there though I think I also have a suggestion And then makes a point that because you work together, that that person might have a greater incentive to resolve and listen, right? Yeah.

Because actually, I've had one really tough conversation this year where it was with, I hope she won't be saying this on the podcast. No, I'm right here. No, it's not you. Basically, I have, I had to, I hate, I absolutely adore this friend. And she's been so important to me. Nobody else feels this role in my life. So I, but I had to say to my friend like, oh,

You made me feel bad when you did this. And she, it was like a masterclass in receiving a boundary. She was phenomenal. Like she was like, A, acknowledging that it happened. B, apologising for it happening. C, recognizing why it was important. D. Like, actually gave me praise.

I don't know what happened. Gave me praise for setting a boundary. She was, and she know what it is, is she not only was phenomenal in the moment about it, which when it's really hard to receive any sort of criticism while I find it hard, she took it with such grace and such understanding. Who? Yeah, I want to be friends with this person. I know my gorgeous, gorgeous friend Lizzie. And I hope she listens to the podcast. I hope she doesn't mind me saying that. Lizzie, you're great. We love you. Lizzie's amazing. But what Lizzie didn't just do in, in hearing me was she like listened and took it on board,

but she also taught me that anybody taking boundaries or another way to, to that has made a choice. Yes. Yeah. I didn't know you could take it well. And it's also taught me to accept people's boundaries in such a kind way. But like was so, I just think that if people are combative or people are dismissive or diminishing, that is a choice they're making. There's another way. They can choose to hear you and if they care about you, they will. But the only thing I would say about the confrontation, which we should get on board with because we have to speak our truths. But to quote Mean Girls, the musical.

why just listen to I'd rather be me by Janice in the second act Okay so you were said to quote it footnote But I would say that The only thing is that with queer I would just flag that The conversation about queerness might cost the listener More than it costs the person they're trying

To have the conversation with Sometimes you can choose not to have conversations Because they'll make it a debate or an argument And it's like it's not intrinsic to your personhood In a way that it's to mind so it might not, you know, you're willing to often, other people are willing to row about it more. Mm-hmm. It's exhausting.

Yeah. Okay, I'm just going to say this. Other option? Other option? As another option, Laser Quest. How does that work? That is brilliant, because then you get out, you get out the tension. So you were saying cinema, which is wrong,

you're battling. You're on two separate teams. If 10 minutes into the game, it is not going your way, and you feel like you're not winning and they're not learning from you, Then you go out to the front desk You tell the 15 year old working there

Listen up Tommy One of the team members has been taken ill So there's actually less players Then you put on like the noise cancelling headphones Fewer players Fewer players You will die alone So alone

She's so right I fucking will And it'll be fucking traffic for you Oh but it won't love With that sort of crap Oh my God Yeah, I don't deserve it And then Laser Quest game will end They won't realize it

They won't be counting the numbers And they'll be stuck in there overnight To think about their actions And either they'll thrive and come out A better person or they will die See, I thought I thought it was the other thing Where it was like

Because you will be able to get your tension out Through shooting them Also that but then if they're not If it's not working Then you trick them into staying there It's frightening It's very frightening Not that I've done it but like

It's like trying somebody If I was going too woking. Yeah. I'm having this immediate panic, by the way. Should I not have named Lizzie? I just think she was amazing. I think, I think Lizzie's amazing. I think everybody will appreciate it.

You can decide later. But I think it's a great thing. And I think we've all had like, I've had a chat with a friend this year about like she felt like I wasn't reaching out to her enough. And I hadn't been. We hadn't spoken for a couple of weeks. And it was really tricky because, like, in my mind,

we were both busy and neither of us had reached out to the other one. Yes. And then like I was like living my life and then she was getting increasingly more upset and then we had we had a nice phone call. It's great. It seems like it's like sometimes you're in such different head spaces. It is good to have that chat. And it just takes you both being like, hey what's we're we're on different pages here. Like I didn't like because you don't always know. But you can come to those conversations with love and presumably the best of the other person. I guess the thing I don't know about you guys but I didn't grow up in a house with conflict. I don't think I've ever seen my parents row. And therefore I always thought of, no, but I always thought of conflict as the end. Really? I always, always, always think confrontation is the end. Like I think that too. Yeah.

Yeah. And so. In relationships, yeah. Yeah. So I'm learning. I have a partner who is thankfully much more emotionally articulate than I am, but I'm learning that like I am always think that that's like the end of days, the end of everything. And whereas she's like, you can have a row and then you have a hot chocolate. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I learned that a lot in a work relationship I had this year. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And this person is like, it's so interesting because they're very respectful when I set a boundary. Yeah. Yes.

But then it's like I found it, but then I found it exhausting that because I just presumed that they would respect that it's like a common thing because I respect that. But then I realize people don't read your mind. Yes. Like. Isn't that exhausting that they don't? Are we talking about me grabbing the tits again? Yes, exactly. Yes.

I was coming back to that. And I hope that solved your problem. I really do. I hope we did too. I hope. Also, wow, isn't it? I think it's so interesting, though, that it brought up so much for all of us because I think,

I don't think people talk about how to approach conflict or criticism or boundaries with young women and not. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Just oil, paddling pool, bikini wrestle. You grant. Thank you so much for joining us. But I do agree

But that's why we let so many douchebags in Okay, yes, true It is true But also it is fun to have a difficult relationship With someone sometimes just to like keep it alive You know what I mean? I think you enjoy it very much Every now and again, it's like

Let's make this tragic painful and long La La La La La La Why do you think I still talk with my mom? Okay Oh, let's thank you so much for being here Happy birthday Thank you Happy birthday!

Hong Kong. Happy birthday! Thank you.