Trusty Hogs - Ep59. SARA PASCOE / Motherhood, Moon Landings, & Male Comedians

Episode Date: November 17, 2022

Comedy legend Sara Pascoe joins us this week, ahead of her huge international tour. She’s been on some of the top shows in the world including Graham Norton, Taskmaster, The Thick of It, and The Great British Sewing Bee. Today she talks parenthood, problem solving, and drops some celeb gossip about none other than Buzz Aldrin…FOLLOW SARA: @Sara.PascoeThank you so much for listening! Support us at https://www.patreon.com/TrustyHogs for exclusive bonus content, merch, and more! Trust us with your own problems and questions... [e-mail] Please give us a follow @TrustyHogs on all socials Be sure to subscribe and rate us (unless you don’t like these little piggies - 5 Stars only!)Thank you to our Patreon supporters...EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: Simon Moores / Guy Goodman / Mary Fox / Annie Tonner / Sarah Jarque-Deakin / Oliver JagoPRODUCERS: Richard Bicknell / Elle / Richard Bald / Neil Redmond / Victoria Hutchison / Emma Walton / Karen & David Bull / Harald van Dijk / Eddie Doyle / Tim & Dom / David Walker / Rachel R / Anthony Conway / Sadie Cashmore / Claire Owen-Jones / Jess & Nick / Zoë / Jo Holmes  / Sarah & Molly  / Alex Pugh / Josie W / Amy / Cordelia / Raia Fink / Rachel Page / Helen A / Tina Linsey / Sophie Chivers / Graham Marsh / Emily Gee / Amy O'Riordan / Abbie WorfWith Helen Bauer (Daddy Look at Me, Live at the Apollo) & Catherine Bohart (Roast Battle, Mock the Week, 8 Out of 10 Cats)FOLLOW HELEN, CATHERINE & ANDREW...@HelenBaBauer@CatherineBohart@StandUpAndrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to episode 59 of trusty hogs. Today, one Helen Bauer is absent from the studio. No, she's not. Here I am. That was a really bad impression, actually, but also quite fun. But do you remember the last time that I co-hosted and I did a really bad impression of Helen? And literally all of her friends texted like, yeah, I just thought it was you. I do. In fact, I do. Chloe Petz is here to co-host instead. Hello, Chloe Pett.

Hello, thanks for having me. Oh my gosh, I forget every time that you bring a serenity that I can't, almost now can't deal with on account of what I've used to. Well, yeah, I think I had a bit of a dilemma coming in today, which was do I sort of come in and try and, you know, cover Helen in my own way? Or do I try and sort of ape the attitude? Basically, am I kind to or do I make your life a living hell is the dilemma that I have to make? Do you think she ever has that dilemma on the way here? Or does she just, I guess, the only option she has available to is to make my life a living hell? I think like an actual trusty hog lives in Helen's head and it's just sort of, it just feels like there's just oinking and she just has to shout over it.

Yeah, I get it. So what have you settled on? Well, I'm still deciding. Yeah, the jury's up. Depends if you're a real bitch or not. Through the fog, step for the trusty hogs. Yeah, you're going to give me your problems and they will solve that. Or maybe they won't

And that's your problem They'll have guests And Andrew White on the tech Oh It's Helen and Catherine As the trusty hogs Trust the trusty hogs Or maybe not

Wow Yeah well I just feel quite peaceful I'm so glad to hear it I'm so glad to hear it Those people who listen to trusty hogs Often will know that we recently hung out to do our house half marathon um apparently you had some things to say a better half marathon when you recorded the off menu podcast well yeah my my i don't know when it will go out uh in relation to when this goes

out but yeah i just thought your attitude absolutely fucking stack is this what you said on off men yeah yeah yeah i wasn't there to defend myself yeah yeah yeah i said you had a bad attitude and the reason why i think you know we i got you through those last few miles you got me through the last few miles but you didn't help on the first movie six and I think the problem is is that um you we have very different attitudes towards self motivation we really do and basically what happened was we met at so we did the royal parks half marathon which like 16,000 people run so it's a big event and when you were there at the beginning they have almost like this little like running village yeah that you that everyone sort of populates and there were massive cues for the toilets and you arrived a bit after me um no and free no for

your own eye had to go early because I fucked up my race number I'm willing to admit that but I was in the toilet queue so big of you and you sort of came in with the attitude of like you were emceeing a gig I did know such thing Chloe Pat I did I did know you were befriending all the old ladies in front of us those women were listening to every word we said because you'd already started talking to them we were being very entertaining I will say that come on but what I also will say is that your sort of um attitude towards both emceeing and self-motivation is to be like very sort of like self-deprecating and sort of undercutting things.

So your way of self-motivating was basically going to be so terrible we're going to be so shit. But basically what that sounded like to every sort of very slender small woman around me, around us there was that you were being self-deprecating on my behalf.

No, it did. No, it did because all of those women were like, this girl is clearly being kind to her massive fucking friend that she's going to have to roll round because all of these women ignored you and started giving me a pep talk about how wonderful

and brilliant I was going to be and I was going to be absolutely pretty. How all bodies are running buddies? I was like, I'm going to run so fast I'm going to create a tornado. You did in fact shout that at the bathrooms.

It was really odd. It was just a very tall person outside the portal who was going there's going to be a tornado around me I'm going to run so fast. I'm the best runner in London I am. But I think maybe London and greater London.

He made that very clear. Yeah, so I think... You promised those women they were going to be carried along by your tornado they wouldn't even need to. So as I say, we've got very different attitudes to yourself. But the thing is, from my point of view, how I feel, how I'm self-motivate is like, especially if I have to do tasks in a day that are really shit.

Like I don't want to do and they've been hanging over me for a while. I'll go, look, okay, this is going to be bad. Yeah. But at least it'll be done. But why did it have to be bad for me as well? And why did the impact of that be incredibly small feminine telling me how wonderful I was, How brave I was. Okay, I feel like that's partly on them.

I feel like that's not what I asked them to do. But I will also say, like, you were going into my mind with toxic positivity. Oh, no. Yeah. I was like, this is going to be bad. Neither of us have run this distance. I hadn't trained enough. I felt like it's going to be bad, but then it'll be finished.

And then we get a roast. We have to go to the pub. Either way, that's how I motivate. You were like, I'm going to win this half-man. marathon. By the way, they'd already started moving the faster runners. And, like, the race had begun and Chloe was like... Some people's race had already finished by the time we started.

We're in the fifth, the last group. And Chloe's like, I'm not going to win this thing. And I'm like, I feel like it's not an energy we can maintain. We were overtaken a lot of people, but that's because we were back with all of the sort of... And did we overtake anyone who wasn't dressed as an animal? Yeah, that elderly woman. Jan! Jan!

Hey, Jan. Fuck you, Jan. I think... Well, no, I think I'm a very positive person. I'm very optimistic. And I knew that at some point I was going to like really struggle. So I was just like, why don't we keep as positive as we can for as long as we can? And then when the inevitable dip comes, we'll deal with it then.

Whereas I'm like, expect the worst and you can't be disappointed. Exactly. Irish. Yes, exactly. A Catholic Irish woman is what I'm saying to it. But we did it. We did do it. We did it.

And at the end, we took my. my hand and as we were crossing the finish line in my mind we were running so we were sprinting at the speed of light on reflection Andrew who all just all finished that race in the test of the fact that we were barely jogging um did we look did we look beautiful and fast when we yeah pretty fast how fast corny dad of you Rob Delaney was just ahead of us fuck and my father my father beat you as well oh we don't know he beat us what times what times you do it in a faster one than you Tell us the time.

I think he was two minutes ahead of you, maybe a bit less. How old is he? 50. Oh, God. What? I'm sorry. Okay, well, that's the fact I didn't know or need to know. Thank you, Andrew.

Apologies. He's done quite a few half marathons, though, so. Well, then he should really beat us by more, shouldn't he? Fucking loser. Tell him I said so. I'm honestly pissed off. Yeah, me too. See, I told you, expect the worst.

And then you never disappointed, but you got my fucking, like, hopes up that we were going to win the marathon. Thanks, Chloe. Thanks a lot. It was nice and we got a rose after. Yeah, and then I essentially saw it as like a challenge to sort of consume every last one of the calories that I burned and then I got home and I was sick. No, you weren't. Yeah, I was sick. No, you weren't. Em's friend came over for dinner and I was just like rolling around on the sofa.

Sort of, I sort of gave up trying to make a good impression. Maybe about 45 minutes in where I was like, no. No, I'm actually unwell here. That's wild because the other way, like you also went the inverse when we did that training run and I didn't have food ready for you like the millisecond we got home, you were like not able to function. Yeah, and I think that's probably why I over ate after the half marathon because I didn't want to feel like I did after the 10 miles as well.

Like I just crashed and was like, I need to eat immediately. Fascinating. I will say I've never, in both cases, in the training run and the half marathon, I've never run with anyone who talked quite so much about how much food we were going to be allowed to eat afterwards. And then you kept, like, feminism checking yourself by being like, obviously we're allowed to our food. We don't have to earn our food, but we're going to be allowed to get some in the galleries. So, you know.

But, I mean, the only reason that I run is so that I can sort of eat at the level that I was eating at before when I wasn't running. Yeah, listen, it's always nice to be like, I have to eat, I have to eat this because I'm an athlete. Yeah. That's always like, there's always a nice way to feel. I've got a half marathon to win. Because, yeah. Because four weeks ago I did do a training run actually

So gotta keep my energy up No I will qualify that by saying That that is an absolutely toxic way of thinking I'm sorry for it I know you will because you always will Because you're bad but also a good feminist No no no I'm bad but I'm self-aware And that is honestly the only goal

Except for the fact that you weren't self-aware enough To not mock me on off menu And I cannot wait to listen And we'll be live tweeting while I do No but I do No, but I will. No, but I think it's fair that you were, you were not taking into account how we were being perceived as a dynamic. As a plus size woman, I was obviously going to be the one that was, that you were sort of.

I was busy sort of dealing with my own shit. And when I say my own shit, I do mean my own shit. Because I had been, I'd been to the A&E than I before, because I had been, because I had to go to the tour in seven weeks. No, but I'm glad that you're omitting it now because when, I said my own shit, I do mean my own shit. you were telling me like oh i think it might be some you know yeah some sort of issue and i was like no you just haven't shack come on be honest with yourself i just find it really hard to be have you told her now yeah and how have you worked it out i had to get drunk to tell her though right i had to get drunk to tell her it's a partly learned thing from oCD so i used him to be able to

pee in public toilets yeah um and so i very very good at holding yeah which is which has caused problems in my body before and so you're still categorizing that as good I'm very good at holding oh that's interesting I'm very well practiced at holding to a to a damaging extent actually good point it's not good at all and but I do find it very hard to be like that kind of human in front of my new partner I can't do it I can't do it in front of M. Really? Yeah, because...

How long have you been dating? Two years. And you can't do that one? I mean, we now, like, I would say we're now at a point where we know that it goes on. Okay. But, but, but, I don't know. I think I've got this thing about, like, feeling, like, I have, I will admit it, M, I have... Don't look at M, look at me.

No, Chloe, can I just say one thing? M signed up to produce this podcast. she did not sign up to be involved in the conversation she's made that very clear multiple times so you talk to me like she's not your like in the two years that i've been with my girlfriend that may or may not be in this room i have bit i have pooed i will admit that oh my god wow that's so disgusting how weak you are but i do i think it's like um yeah i think it's i think it's that i feel like i don't want to be like a gross disgusting boy oh that's interesting yeah i guess for me it's um i don't want to be unsexy in any way

I've never heard this from a gay man this farting issue I think it is that they do fire in front of you interestingly gendered yeah they were just fart yeah me and Reese have fart all over the place I actually didn't say that

I think that's disgusting though but not like on purpose we're not like aiming for it it just happens yeah we're both two member bodies yeah no no no even like the boyish lesbians will be like I have to go outside to fart

and you're like oh it's too much information or I am Yeah, I just think it's Hypothetically, that's what I'd say. Yeah, I don't know. It's probably like, for me, a blend of, like, internalised misogyny

and internalised mascophobia. And for you, it's internalised misogyny. Yeah, not misandry? Interesting. Because I think they are gross and weak for doing it in front of each other. Love you, Rhys. Thank you.

I yeah I obviously it is obviously it is it is it is also from like maybe a little bit of um of the of the internalized misogyny is all has also come from my experience with other lesbians who want me to be a specific presentation of femininity which I too wish to be so you're talking about a very externalized hymophobia no i'm saying that like i think that okay so like i don't know where it comes from but i do i don't think it's helped but and i don't want to overag the situation but i feel like the the sort of there is sort of a fetishization or excitement around my femme presentation in queer relationships because it allows us to play into like learn traditional gender roles that people enjoy when they feel queer or when they feel novel or when they feel like there wasn't permission for us to do that or whatever and that's exciting and there are good things about that but also I have to feel like the girl sometimes and I don't know I just also I went to an old girl school if you parted in an

old girl school you were dead forever like that was going to be you forever and I don't want to be that and I also just oh I don't know I just find it unsexy and embarrassing and also my new girlfriend's cool and I don't want to be uncool I'm already so uncooling's cool I don't think it is I think it is. I don't think it is. And how come you don't do it in front of M? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Sorry to interject here. Catherine, no fart. Just for your consideration. Thank you. That's good stuff. Yeah, we'll go over to it. We'll give it to it. We'll give it to it.

Oh, God. Good stuff. Get huge Davis on the blower. I rewrite in a theme tune. Through no. fog. Hey! Thank you.

Listen, I hate it and I don't. I back off again. I don't want to do it is the answer. We're talking about this for too long. My point is we both got round the old half marathon. We had her lovely dinner and it was nice. Did you fart once during the half marathon? Beside you?

Absolutely not. I don't think I did. No. Besides you? No. I don't think I did actually. I wouldn't have risked it. Not a chance.

Genuinely really impressive because how much control do you have was you're also trying to like complete a half marathon? I also think it's good self-control, but maybe also stupidity, because I feel like if I'd just let out like a few in a three... We would have gotten further. We would have shaved off that two minutes. Propel ourselves. And being Andrew's Dan.

That's why your dad, he cheated. He was getting the momentum for it. Oh, like, this is too much. I hate this boy conversation. Sorry. Yeah, I don't like it. I'm sorry. I don't like it. Sorry everyone in this room.

Yeah. Do you think this is more? bad than everything Helen Bauer says. Oh, do you think she's disgusting? She would have called you a cunt seven times by now. She would have, to be fair. She's really throwing that word around, the lot. She'd have already farted in the room, to be honest.

She would have. She really would have. So, yeah, thank you for coming in with more serenity, but the equal levels of grotesqueness as Helen Bauer. She doesn't talk about farts a lot, though, does she? Only because I don't give her the space to. No, but she talks about that kind of worms. She talks about other bodily stuff.

Worms, poo, her vagina, thrush, styes. infections. Yet she doesn't go with farts. An interesting character. Glad we found a little place for you to sit. A little niche for Chloe. Isn't that nice? I found the fart hole. Changing the topic now. I like your nails. Oh, thanks. You have your nails painted and they're beautiful. This is the first time I've ever seen you as nail polish on. Yeah. Tell me. Well, on Saturday evening, um, I went to my friend's birthday birthday. and she, I don't know, she was just in a very camp mood.

She was just sort of swanning around the place in a very camp mood. Okay. And she and my other friend, Hermione, were doing their nails. Right. And I was like, maybe I'd like to have my nails. Great. And then she said, what colour, I said, maybe a dark one because I've seen, you know, some of the edgier boys doing that. Which edgy boys?

Do you like, sort of the, like, the Harry Stiles drones? Do you know what I mean? Yes. Okay. Okay, so you're like, I'm going to be like a Harry-style strip. Well, no, like I've just, I basically feel like I'm now comfortable enough in my own masculinity that the nail varnish doesn't feel like a sort of weird, like feminine thing that I'm doing. Like, whenever I've had nail polish on before, I felt like, you know, like when a dog wears sucks.

Yes. And it's sort of putting its legs all over the, it can't, it's like hitting things and it can't get its place. Yeah. That's what I've always felt like. And then on Saturday, I was just like, this feels right. Oh, my God. Good for you. I just feel trendy. You have a lot going on lately.

Tell me what else you've had done on your birthday. Ear pierce. You got your ears pier. Yeah. Tell me about it. So had you had them pierce before? I'd had them pierce before. But the thing you need to know about me, Catherine, is I have very thick lobes.

I didn't know that. And Nor did I think that sentence was going to end that way. I have very thick lobes and I do me in the two seas. Thick lobes change lives. Save lives. Thick lobes save lives. Come on, qualify that. I don't know.

I don't. I don't know. Thick lobe could save a life, Catherine. I don't want to play this game. Maybe like it's some, when you shoot and the Bible stops the bullet, your lobe will stop the bullet for somebody else. I look I'm like a very specific security guard where I just have to... That's nice. Doge, doge.

Well, yeah, I got very thick lobe. So I've had issues with sort of like them getting a bit like infected and a bit gross and stuff like that. And this time went to a sort of, I guess, a fancier place. Nice. And everything's been really quite fantastic. They look so cute. Thank you. And we've worked out that nine weeks after we'll be on Christmas Day.

Is nine weeks how long you have to keep the studs in? Keep the studs in. So then on Christmas Day, as a special treat, I'm going to pop in the earrings that you got me for my birthday. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah. Oh, my God. How lovely. a beautiful divine little hoops

listen to mask hoop it took me ages to find them it turns out getting a fricking sturdy mask hoop that isn't like that's just utilitarian and isn't fucking weirdly bejewled it's harder than you think you did a really great job I really appreciate the praise thank you

I can't wait for Christmas I absolutely did what your girlfriend told me to do I was like I need to get to get for Chloe what did you want and she said she took ages looking for it and you oh no and she told me what to get and then I went and looked for it beautiful yeah no i did i did do at least that i'm not can you imagine although had that been an

option i would have let em to semiling she didn't actually i asked but no i had to go find them myself which is fine i guess but yeah i'm just really enjoying sort of doing queering things that i previously thought were feminine you know it's nice when queering things that like that used to mean conformity that's so exciting yeah like i now flirt with men you know and if they let's bring missionary back let's reclaim missionary Queering mission But No

But it's really funny Because if I flirt with a man If he were to like Flirt back I would like Or like Like it's funny Sort of quite

Performating flirting If there was any ever Expectation of like It's to go beyond the flirt And I'd be like Fuck off I'm not gay mate Like Like

It's yeah safe A safe and comfortable It's good to know your boundaries It's good to know your band rules it's good to know your boundaries and also may I say mask privilege

that you can do that flirt with a man and not expect to not have them expect anything whoa whoa mate oh

nice nice how exciting that's good we have to have our guest on soon it's the wonderful Sarah Pasco are you ready to welcome her

yes great please welcome to trusty hogs it's Sarah Pasco Hello. Hello, if you like Trustee Hogs, why not join our Patreon? Listen, we have an extra episode every single week if you do, which is amazing. And you can listen to the backlog of them if you have just joined.

You get all the 57 free ones that are already out. Additionally, we put up extra content, extra shows, extra live shows. And lately, an entire episode of a solving listener problems called the Mailbag Special Edition 1. There's so many treats on there. I think it's worth a fiber, if not more. Oh my God, come on, you fucking little piggyhors. Join us for five pounds a month. You get everything and you can be our best friend.

I love how they're the whores, but we're asking for their money. Confusing. Have a lovely day. Thank you, baby. Hello, we are doing a live Christmas show for trusty hog. It's called hog, hog, hog, hog, hog, like ho, ho, ho, but hog, hog, and you can drink egg hog. It's like eggnog, but weird. bacon in it

egg hog only at the Bill Mary pub on December the 18th for Trusty Hogg's Live Hog Hogg

Hogg Bye Bye It's It's Sarah Bloody Pasco Hi I'm

She's in a plastic bottle Oh my god Don't put that as the clip That's going to be the only clip That's going to be the clip Put on repeat Yeah Sarah Swiggin from plastic.

Just boomers over your head. Sarah Pascoe hates the sea. She hates it. She's not even a real... She calls herself a vegan, question mark. I'm trying to look for the bit where it says this is made a cardboard. God damn it.

I saw her punch of fish on the way here. Yeah, she does. She's constantly punching fish, and you know there's a lot of them around London. Listen. Hello. Hello. How are you? I'm really, really well, thank you.

Good. You're starting your tour on Friday. Thursday. Thursday. Friday's a show. We've been over there. You've told me Thursday twice and I haven't been able to compute. I'm like, it's fried.

Have you got like busy brain? I think I do. It's got like no space for new information. That's probably what's going on. And also like, I think if you were to retain information, then it wouldn't need to be the dates and locations of Sarah Pascoe's tour. As a true friend. Wow.

Yeah, I was like, Chloe, I don't think you understand our friendship. I think it would be exactly that. Oh, you also are as PA. Okay. I just like a good like text message just like specifically for each venue. In Auburns tonight, eh? Have a great one. Love that dressing room.

They're going to love you. Have you seen Sarah Pasco's shoes? No. I bought buffaloes. They're so great. I could ever, when I was in the 90s as a teenager, this is what Spasco's wore and I never could afford them. Aren't they incredible?

They're absolutely divine. I think this is called a midlife crisis. No, this is called reclaiming your frickin' youth. I couldn't afford them either. And my cousin had a glittery purple pair and I was honestly like outwardly jealous. sale on ASOS because no one wants them anymore. What? Yeah. You are looking astoundingly Gen Z today, I will say that.

You look great. Yeah. You look great. Yeah. So is the show about the 90s? Weirdly, loads of 90s stuff came up. I think because I was talking about some stuff that happened when I was 14, which is like very origin story for me.

And then weirdly out of it, loads of stuff, I thought about lots of stuff that I hadn't thought about for ages, like the paparazzi. Like when the paparazzi was like the biggest problem. And how different it is now that we all take pictures. of ourselves constantly, like much worse than the paparazzi ever were. Isn't that interesting? And how many people's aesthetic is like as if they have been packed? Yeah.

Which is really art. Someone's invaded my privacy. Upskirting, he would do it to themselves and call it nudes. And that used to be a massive thing where we were like, oh, these paparazzi lie on the floor and try and get photos up girls skirts. But isn't that sort of trying to sort of take control of the narrative of like I'm going to take control of the output that I put out there? But then I guess if you're having.

to do that then what level of control do you have that you're still having to do it yeah i think there definitely is an argument to that but i would posit another one which is for which all which where's the audience yeah because there was this thing with celebrities which was like people wanted to see them and especially sometimes in a humiliating light or very human more fragile they wanted to see what they didn't what you're trying to not show us we see that stop curating yourself where we're like there's no audience but there are people that we've all had to mute who post so selfies of themselves constantly. So that was where the 90s sort of took me.

But also we were sort of trying to, we were trying to find out what was beyond their own curation, whereas now everyone's curating their own sort of television show on Instagram, which is fascinating. Yeah, do you find it fascinating? I find it fascinating that I was in Victoria Park the other day and there was a woman alone with a, like, a human side, like a full tall tripod,

and she was walking at it and waving at it, like, as if she was meeting a friend. I find that fascinating. I don't find it comfortable or, good but I was like what's going on today? Maybe she's one of those people that has fallen in love with an object and the tripod

the tripod is her girlfriend oh you think it's a lesbian tripod I wish I'd felt that she was that happy to see the tripod she didn't see Maraised she just seemed alone maybe it's a long-time relationship oh they've the romance explains

she takes the tripod for granted it's just always there making her look well lit seeing someone walk past with her selfie sit going, oh. Yeah. I know he's a bad boy. But just for one night. Guys, I clearly didn't think it better enough.

Actually, that was my issue. That's on me. I apologize. I can move anything's true at the same time. Yes, this is true. And also, actually, because you are in the public eye and you have had a baby, congrats. Well done.

Congrats. It's really good. Very big exciting. I'm a real woman now. I'm glad you said it, actually. I'm glad you said it. Thank you. Doing a bit for the war effort.

Well, good. another boy thank god good um i don't know if i'm like to say that well that's actually what i was going to say is like how did you decide whether or not to put your baby on instagram what i really have an awareness of is that he everything you put on the internet is there forever and it's odd like i put a couple of pictures up with like the back of his head and when i did chat shows um preparing for the tour when i talked they put up that picture because that was the closest they could have for a picture of my baby one of the shows checked with me one of the shows didn't it was lucky there wasn't like just an early baby short or they would just sort of put it up

oh my god and i and what i'm really aware of him a sensitivity that i haven't shown to anyone else in my life previously is that he went to school he will then one day hopefully get a job yeah and people will be able to excavate back into his history via me and so i'm super careful about what that narrative will be yeah and it should and i thought i've never i've never i've still not had my like out-out routine like I haven't had my Beyonce in the post office I haven't had my I don't want it to be like his shitty nappies no he's like I'm a I'm a lawyer now mommy I believe stop it and do I have to still call you mommy mommy still you're closer so just I and it's really good for me to have that of like he will have a life I have to be

really careful what I've said and and what I've shared but then I also understand why some people are just gushy and they want their fans feel like they're part of their world. Yeah, I read an art, oh, I was going to say I read an article the other day. I read a headline of an article the other day and decided that it made me clever enough. Yeah. But it was essentially like this kid speaker who'd grown up and it was like one of the first generations of adults who were like sort of like Instagram, have been part of an Instagram family. Yeah.

And the kid was essentially going like, it made me feel so exposed that I felt like my mum and dad were like constantly putting me and my life on show. Like that must be so... The idea of like a performative childhood and then certain events that actually are magical but only if you're in the moment. I think that like beach holidays are absolutely amazing if you are actually like there,

not if you're going, what's my angle, what does this look like? How does my body look? What are we creating? Like Christmas opening the presents, if you're not actually inside it, it doesn't matter how Christmassy it looks. Yeah.

Yeah. If you're not doing it with abandon. There are children who are like being told, no, no, no, don't do that yet. We're going to do this big one. Everyone get round because I'm going to get likes for this. The strangers are going to look into your living room. Yeah, that is cringe.

And I'm sure some kids don't, it doesn't bother them. I'm sure in some families there's dialogue. So this isn't be just blanket criticizing people. Do you remember that shift between childhood and teenage where like you were suddenly aware that there might be a photo on Christmas morning. So it was less like run out the door and like wake everyone. up and more like oh do I have time to brush my hair

will I what do I you had a nicer family than me okay we were absolutely like scarecrows going fuck off mom if you put that fucking camera anyway fucking knew me I'm gonna no I'm not I'm gonna go back to bed I don't think I had that problem

because my Crystal Palace tracksuit was always looking fresh okay okay well I guess we live different lives and that's okay whereas my mom would cry if on our Christmas on Christmas or my birthday wouldn't at least let her take one then

so those are like the times that she like got to so I would brush my hair for those hell anyway one nice little insight into our mothers that's fine and also don't pretend that you weren't like waking up literally every morning I can imagine you're sort of a black velvet number black velvet's very hard

to keep clean actually middy length I wish I had pudding boobs oh god that would have been my dream that would be my dream but it was more like pajamas that my mother bought for me that matched my sisters that were horrible in check and I hated them so much but we all matched

and that's wonderful. You all matched the entire family? No, not my mom and dad, just my sister, my brother and I. Oh, I see. Yeah, it was bad. What does your parents wear? Clothes, like daytime clothes. They'd be dressed within the second but they were the kind of people who got up at like 6 a... and still do get up at 6 a.m and when you come down at 7 or like

good afternoon and you're like, are you kidding me? But then it's weird that they wanted you to stay in pajamas like you're cosplaying still the night. even while they're away. Well, they also made us come downstairs and sing happy birthday to Jesus. Like, none of it made sense, Sarah.

Oh, I forgot about it. Did you have to sing happy birthday to Jesus? At the nativity in the hall, yes, before we could go into the Santa present. That is so funny. There are many videos of us singing full, happy birthday to Jesus. Happy birthday, dear Jesus.

Happy birthday to you. And then were they just waiting for the Holy Spirit, amen. And were they just waiting for the Holy Spirit to blow out the candles? No, there was no candle, but then I guess he created lights. so now we'll need. And so when the Da Vinci Code came and there was like discussions about

like oh actually December 25th is actually like Mithras and it got sort of the pagans sort of absorbed it all that kind of Christianity absorbed paganism was your parents You think we were allowed to watch the divinche code? Sarah you thought the Da Vinci Code was going to be the thing that made them go like, hang on a minute

this doesn't happen to me. I took my dad to see the book of Mormon we watched the book of Mormon and the entire first half my brother and I are like clenched jaws clenched everything being like oh my God it's so like because that's about missionaries

yeah and there's no real disparity between that and Catholic missionaries and it's so sacrilegious and so like heretical I was like oh my God this is horrific anyway the lights come up my dad turns around

and he just goes do you want me to do the accent no that's cool I got it thank oh my god we're doing this Riddle me This is about the book of Mormons So he's about

Irish people say And this will be a tinker Did you confuse lepricons With rumble stillskin What's happening Riddle me this Oh it's all the same ballpark I also love that

My dad to you is the same Ashton B It's all just the same person That's great No he turned around It was like Mormons are mad And we were like, oh.

Oh, the cognitive dissonance is so real. The guy in the mirror is looking old. Yeah. He was like, crazy Mormons, right? We were like, yeah, crazy Mormons. Anyway, no, the Jesus song was sang regardless of the Da Vinci Code. We managed to wish that to be. Why should that stop?

I want to say younger than it did. You're not still doing it. No, no, no, no, no, I'm not religious anymore and also, I had to, okay, if there's any children in the room, send them out, shouldn't I be listening to this in the first place, but at the point of which we no longer believed in Santa, I didn't have to pretend to believe in God to justify Christmas. Oh, wow.

And they let you have that as well? Listen, nobody was thrilled, but like I was happy to pretend Jesus existed, provided there were going to be Santa gifts after. Sure. Do you think if the Da Vinci Code had worked, they would have made you sing happy birthday to Dan Brown. Yeah, yeah.

Happy birthday, dear Dan Brown If only, if only. So tell me, sorry, to rewind all of this, what is your tour show about, please? Well, it's about success. Yes. About success. It's got some showbiz stories,

some name dropping. I can't imagine you name dropping. Genuine. That wasn't meant to be sarcastic. David Barry was saying that to me just the other day. Oh, David. I was trying to think of someone a lot. I know, I couldn't.

And that's kind of why I couldn't imagine you name dropping. It is nice to have a proper joke on this podcast, so well done. Fuck you. You're rude. So what's the biggest name you drop in the tour show? Buzz Aldrin. That is a big name to drop. That's my biggest name.

So you've met Buzz Aldrin? What? Yeah, well, this is the thing. What? My first ever radio four panel show, and, you know, you've been doing stand up for a little bit, you get an agent, usually kind of goes in that order, and then, work sort of starts changing these things you've fantasised about, seeing other people

maybe that you've gigged with doing and so I got booked for a radio for panel show which was already I was so gloriously. Please, yeah. And then they rang up to tell me who else was on and go through the games and they were going through who was on and they opened with Jimmy Carr

so I was just trying to like silently without being a dweeb to them react to the fact that fucking hell Jimmy Carr's one of the famous comedians in the world is one of the best gag writers who's ever lived And I'm doing a show with him. I'm going to be like, he will shake my hand and know who I am. And as I was trying to absorb this,

and they went in Buzz Aldrin. What the hell? I know, from the moon. And that's why I talk about him. But why was he booked for an inheriting of time? And what was the premise of the show? The show, I think it was Museum of Curiosity. Oh, they can get some like randomly amazing.

Yeah, randomly amazing people. And it definitely was via John Lloyd, too, from QI. who's very well connected and knows lots of people and there's lots of people's friends and so it just was one of those really random things and then when we had the photograph taken at the end I don't talk about this in my show but it was very sweet of Jimmy because it was the first night I'd ever met him

and obviously I was a very new comic and he's really supportive to new comics as we know to be fair he really is he really is and when we were having the photograph taken I was definitely the lowest status person in the room so I was sort of out on the edge and Jimmy said no come here and he put me next to Buzz Aldrin and he went touch me touch him not touch me

That would be an awful story That is to be fair One of the things Jimmy Carr has never done That we know of Any of us So he said So he said So he went Sarah come here

And then he in the photo Put me next to Buzz Aldrin In the light And he went touch him He's been on the moon So I've just got my hand On the back of Barz Aldrin Just gently caressing Moon Man

That's amazing Yeah So that's my biggest name job That's incredible I think my first panel show I was just on with like I'm not going to name male comedians No, that's really mean to just be like

Yeah Russell Cair News I'm not going to list my peers As disappointments just then actually But sometimes this does happen Where something that you think is so great And then you tell someone maybe from home

Family member And it's been like Oh my God I'm going to be doing a thing with Romish Yeah And who Oh I know Yeah

And you're like Oh God But it's so arbitrary as well. Like sometimes you'll be like, oh, I'm about to see this like major, like I'm about to see like pointless celebrities or something which for me is like the biggest thing. And someone would be like unimpressed.

And then you'll be like, oh, I'm just going to go on BBC fours a good read. And I'll be like, yes. You. They're letting you. On BBC Radio Ford. I couldn't read with Harriet Gilbert. Yeah.

You. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that's quite nice that like you can go to different people for different things for. Yeah. I thought you were going to be like, they would have like, oh, Buzz Aldrin is not Neil Armstrong.

Oh, I see. Like the shit, the shit astronaut. Yeah. Was that your reaction? Yeah, shit astronaut. But it's still in the lineup. Like, if you know Gary, if you know Gary Barlow, you know Howard and Jason. Yeah.

So if you know Neil Armstrong, you know Buzz Aldrin. Did he seem like more of a Howie or a Jason? Oh, no, no. I think he's a Gary Barlow. Oh, is he? You know, oh, this is, this is gossip. This is gossip. Niels the Robbie.

Neals the Robbie. Absolutely. So the buzz was supposed to be first on the moon But he's a quiet right wing He's got some beliefs Probably very popular now in America The kind of thing At the time they were too scared about what he would say

And he made the moon part of his Masonic Lodge By putting, he took his Masonic flag up there As well as the American one Shut on! No What? Yeah It's part of his Masonic Lodge

He literally goes Like But can the Masons do that? I think I mean if they've got to the moon And then you can pretty much do whatever you like with them. What were they worried he was going to say? For white people.

Wow, you really went for it and I respected. He's going to punch you now. Does he? Yeah, that's what he does. He punches people. What? The sentence, did you not know this? Sorry, I was so impressed that you met him.

I didn't know he was a madman. Sarah, at least then I'll have touched someone that's been on the moon. That's true. It'd be like a meteorite. It's coming straight to your face. What? So this is not, I mean, this is publicly well known. Actually, I don't think Buzz comes out of this particularly badly.

It was a... Hear me out! We've gone from I don't name drop to you talking about Buzz Aldrin on first name terms. Buzz doesn't come out that badly from there. My boss. See, how can you imagine it? It's worse after wine. I love it.

Because it was one of those moon landing deniers. And they was in a press junket and they had lied to get in there and then were very disrespectful to him. It's on tape. Essentially, you know, Buzz Aldrin fought for his country. He, and before the space work that he did. Yeah. The space industry job.

The temping he did. And so he's a veteran, is what I'm trying to say. And I was incredibly disrespectful. And I was trying to get him to admit he hadn't gone. And imagine if you trained that long, done something that incredible, not only personally, but for the whole of humanity, to have some, like, kids saying, just because

it doesn't fit my narrative of reality didn't happen, so he punched him. You can watch it on YouTube. I absolutely will. I can confirm that. I will be watching that. In fact, everyone, pause now, go away. I have a little watch. We get it. We support you. Oh, my gosh. We'll already have watched that and know about it. There will be going, where have you been?

I do worry, that's the general vibe of our listeners. They're like, these bitches are slums. These are big current events. Do you also know the Berlin Wall is falling? Oh, Helen did tell me that. I do know that much. That much I do know. Before we do our listener problem, I feel like maybe you'll be a good person to talk to about this. I talked about this on the Patreon, but then so many people messaged me to say that maybe I should talk about it on the main episode.

I brought my new painted nails. It's not about your new painted nails. Yes, yes. It turns out we can all do it. No, I was talking about how, well, I'm 34 years old, guys. Baby, tiny baby. Thank you for saying that it means everything, especially given what I'm about to say. and I've never wanted to have a baby before

and I don't know if I do want to have a baby Yeah, welcome to your mid-30s It goes on till you're 42 And also I'm really reticent And I think the reason I don't want to talk about it on the episode was because I can see in front of me 20 women I used to work within an office All of whom said, well when you're old, you'll change your mind

And I run the me of then I want to respect and be loyal to When she was like, fuck it! Yeah But equally But there were 70 people in your position feeling exactly the same who also felt differently in a past incarnation

that's why it's really important to talk about it. But I also think that it's really important even if what those women have said to you has turned out to be the case it's not they're still not allowed to say it to you when it's not their place

they can't make you understand this feeling that you're feeling what they're saying is you'll change your mind because your body will want a baby and that isn't necessarily what you're saying. Exactly. So it's not like, oh, you're wrong, you don't know yourself.

What's different is there's another question of like, oh, what if, the possibilities, what is the right decision? Is there a wrong decision? So this is what's happening right now is just that the door is closing. Not yet. How is it closing? As in, as in. Are we running out of sperm? No, no, no, no.

There's a global shortage of sperm and I'm here to tell you again. Five trees is burning off all the sperm. No, what I mean to say is that suddenly, in a way of never. ever been aware of. I'm slightly aware of my age and of the quest of like of knowing I don't want it now and I'm not ready for it now and I couldn't financially support one now but that by the time I could that then my body might not be able to. It's a really cruel trick. Yeah. The whole, that whole shtick and all of the pressure. Yeah, it's a really cool trick. There's a really, um, Sheila Hetty wrote an amazing book called Motherhood, which is about approaching 40, which is in a long-term

relationship and doesn't know. Yeah. And so she throws sort of eye ching and dice and has conversations with herself. But it's about the unknowingness, which is just it is what it is. And the thing is that the current predicament I'm having is just because I don't know, but I also don't know that I wanted to be shut off as a possibility. I'm like, should I be freezing my eggs, which is what I was talking about. Then it turns out.

Did you know that costs like so much money? So much money. And also then you have to do IVF because it's not. Like you've frozen your eggs, you can put them back in and get pregnant. What, you can't just de-frost? Is this the-pop-em-down-down-the-gob, like a nerve-in? Is it? Is it because of the cost of living crisis, it's hard to run the freezer, is that what you mean?

No, I mean, like, it's hundreds of pounds to find out if you have viable eggs to do so, and then it's thousands of pounds per go, and they expect, they recommend you do it three times, so it's like three grand a go. And then you have to pay every year. The other thing is cost 400 pounds a year to keep you. To run said fridge. Yeah. Yeah.

So there's lots of things. And again, I think what happened was we started to discuss as a culture and full of women who wanted to get as much out of life as possible. So it's a really positive discussion. And I think egg freezing came up on something that we heard in our early 20s or teens. As in, don't worry, they've got egg freezing now. We'll worry about this at 34. Yeah, yeah, without actually going expensive.

It's really painful. Yeah, you have to do hormone treatment. And then you might go through IVF several times. unsuccessfully, again, painfully, hormonally, so it's not a... Solvable. Yeah, and it's not an easy one. But if you're someone who definitely knows that you want children and you think you've got low egg reserves, that's a good thing to get people to get checked out.

But actually, you might have even less time than you realize. Or finding something out might go, no, I do want to do it. Because the idea of not doing it broke my heart. Like there are some things that, like, having your health checked out, those kind of things are really proactive steps, I think. Yeah, I think I'm going to do that and see how I feel. I think I'll know a lot based on what I feel. feel in reaction to what I'm told but also I feel so weird I feel like I feel weird and like

even talking about it I'm like as in I feel like I don't know what I'm saying no but what you're feeling is really really really common this is not to say that you're not special you are thank you I don't have to be special you're a precious lady but um thank you that's why it's good to talk about it because it is it's a really blur annoying it feels almost like cliched but then also feels like, but we chose clowns. We're clowns. So we got all this other fun stuff. So maybe it doesn't have to matter.

And it doesn't matter. And I don't even know if I mind if they're mine or not. I don't know. I just weirdly suddenly have never had the inclination. And I'm now suddenly like I don't want to close off the options entirely. But it's all so bizarre. Well, I think that's it. That's seeing all the variety of options.

Like one of them is, you know, having children and a family that you're not biologically related to. There are lots of options that actually I used to find that really calmed me down. They do. The biggest thing was, oh, do I want to be, do I want to be, do I want the responsibilities of parenting. Yeah. And that's a different thing to...

They don't have to be mine. Yeah. Do I want to go, oh, you look like my dad? Great. Now that you say it. Yeah. I really... No, I don't. I think... We've had this conversation before and I think that

like we are in a really cool position that I wish everyone was in where we have like queer lifestyles which are quite like radical and often outside the binary more of like often in the circles that we move and I think looking at your life in those times

in those terms in terms of like yeah non-conventional because you you don't there are so many uncontrollable variables in this that I think if you can just go to it with like a sort of an attitude of sort of curiosity there are smaller questions all in there yeah fascinating before the big question yeah because really what you want to know is what it's going to happen to me. What is my life going to be like? That's exactly. Oh, that's so true.

I used to ask myself little questions like, do I want to make pack lunches? Yes. Do I want to tell some bedtime stories? Yes. So I could imagine my life completely reorganised around someone else's. And then it's like, tiny rucksacks days out.

The science museum, there were things that were so positive and it was a building up of those things. Yeah, that's my. That helped me see like, because I always, I didn't identify as a nurturing woman. What? Yeah, because I'm not, I was a very selfish person always, and I was always a very... That's such a weird thing for you to say to me because you're so nurturing.

I think I really changed and I changed because I felt it in myself. But before then, I'd been really hardened and told that I wasn't. And so I thought that equated with not parenting because you can't, you're a selfish person and because I'm not, I didn't feel motherly. I didn't, I had to really examine and ask myself lots of little questions and look and read lots of other things because it was like it's a it's a phase of exploration and I think there are there's so much happy life and a really generative life that doesn't involve having children at all or certainly biological children agreed there's something about having a child which takes

so much of your energy that you're a much worse citizen don't speak me and say someone runs a charity and's got nine kids okay in my experience I only care about my kid now I've seen you do material about this and it's so funny but that energy is a balance so it's not like oh now I'm a mother I'm really it's like

you've created another consumer yeah and there's nothing noble about it that's what I meant to say that is this has genuinely been reassuring can I close the conversation by saying

imagine that conversation but with Helen Bauer present oh wow we would have Sarah wouldn't have She would have told you to jump down a well. That's what she would have told him. It's just a generic response. She's like, if you're confused, just going a well.

A well? Does she meditate in wells? Has she been in a well? No, she uses them as sort of a punitive tool. So for men who have spurned our listeners for herself when she's failed, her own expectations for anyone she doesn't like. You should do an episode down a well. Number one, I think the acoustics would be fantastic.

Wouldn't they be gorgeous? And then you could watch us the sun, Kate. and then the moon came out. You know, you can see stars really early, apparently, when you're down a well. How do you know that? How do you know that indeed? You're like, Sarah, I don't know.

We haven't got loads of time. Well, one of the key features I would say about you is I could literally say like, donuts and you'd be like, I read a book on that. Apparently it's my insecurity thing. It's like, so I rely on, oh, I actually read a thing about that. About Wells. It doesn't matter if no one likes me and I've got no friends because. Anyway, it's my book.

It's my tick. Because I read a book about friends. I've got a library card adventures I think Helen I think Helen has to go into a world I think if you're going to dole it out You've got a bin there

Can we get like trusty hogs merch wells That'd be lovely baby wells You could drink out of or you could put your No money Savings up Very nice A well that's a money box Very nice or a pen well

Crisis Yes Not to be a Helen Bauer about this But I was thinking full size well that you can install in your back garden, but mini well, also good. Yeah. You have to dig a well.

You can't install one. How do you know so much about well? She's a well expert. Oh my gosh, this is going to be great. I think we've already seen how good Sarah is a giving advice. While you're here, we should take advantage. Sorry.

I'm kind of an amateur therapist. So I'm not right. I think you seem like a pro. Look at that jumper. Come on, you're a pro. It's from Bowden. I'm old. It's not old, but ready.

Qualified to therapists. I am, yeah. It's about douchebag men in comedy. Whoa, that sounds very interesting specific. Well, I'll give you a quick, quick, precy then. So this is a person that is trying to get into student comedy, went up to the fringe for the final of a student comedy award, and unfortunately was given advice by a male comedian

who she talked he looked up to, who was just a few, a year ago, above her in the Comedy Society, was a bit of an asshole about, like, oh, don't do that sort of stuff, don't do that sort of stuff. I mean, obviously, we don't know what this stuff. stuff is but what is how do you deal with men offering unsolicited advice and how do you find good advice it's it depends you don't need advice the whole point of sound up is really you just stop listening to everyone don't you apart from an audience and if they're not laughing you should

you should listen you should hear that silence but if they're laughing then um it's all about following your own thing advice doesn't ever stop and you can do two things as you realize you're about to get advice you can go oh sorry thank you so much i really don't need notes it's a new bit I'm just sort of working it out. Or you can just literally walk away. Do the second one, because the emotional labour of the first one, men that are giving you on solicited advice aren't necessarily going to take your boundary very well

if you assert it in a calm feeling. Yeah, but I think sometimes they're so desperate, especially if you had it, like, when someone's trying to give you like a topper or a punchline, like, there's a guy who's really nice, really nice in comedy, like, I'm not going to make a name of it, and he once said to me, what you should say is, and it was so awful, he said, you should say that, and I can't even remember what my routine about it,

definitely wasn't specifically this he said it's something he thought and thought I can't get away with I'll give it to a young woman he said he said they do that all the time he said and this is what I would say to this young comic is sometimes they're offloading their baggage onto you and so just like yeah exactly like a other emotional labor it's not your shouldn't be your burden and if you do just have to smile and not don't hate yourself for not wanting to be confrontational but he said you should say that fingering and old lady's like opening a bag of crisps and I was looking at him it was so quick you know I had time to, and I'm not really a walk away,

I'm a sort of say they're frozen and then hate myself 12 years later. I've actually read a book on Finger-in-A-Rle. That's what I was thinking. As he was saying it to me, I was like, I mean, it's so nasty, it's so nasty towards a portion of your audience. It's so nasty to human bodies in general,

and it doesn't make any sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not like a great observation of our funny. That doesn't make any sense. It's thought, the amount of men who would come to me when I started comedy with like incredibly vulgar descriptions of what they thought lesbian sex

were that they thought I could say that they couldn't say on stage. Whereas what they were doing is just enacting out like a fantasy, do you know what I mean? Yeah, but also kind of wanted someone to tell and to like agree with them that vaginas were actually gross.

Right, right, right. And I was like, I'm the opposite of your target market for that particular thought, my friend. But yeah, that's fascinating. Well, this person, I know this is just a quick one, but because she's so new, please don't let it put you off

but yes it doesn't go away it really doesn't but it's rare it doesn't happen on a daily basis I get it a lot I get a lot of advice both from male audience members and male comics I think sometimes it is to do with presentation not to be like

I just don't think anyone should ever talk to male audience members oh to be clear I'm not trying to we shouldn't have to this is the trouble with some venues when you can't escape quickly enough that is not part of the ticket price so I mean

that should start I think if it's a male audience member, if they even try and approach me, I will be like, oh, sorry, I've got to get a bus. Yeah, that's what I would do. I think if there's another comedian. I put my headphones in. That's my right. I can't hear you. They've literally said hello and you've got one sec.

I'm sorry. I've got my headphones on. I have got to start doing that. Fine. I'll just do that. I'll just do that. I'll just do that. Does that help?

Yes, very useful. Can I also just say, I think one of the things I didn't start comedy at uni because I think I didn't think I was the originator of funny material. I was like, oh, just like act in funny things that the boys write, essentially. And I think that that is quite like a gender dynamic that happens at uni. And I would say to this person, like, just try and quiet all of that noise from the boys and just like be like really like playful and silly and just have like loads of fun with it. And just if that's what you're doing, then you will be achieving that

and anything that anyone says to knock that will just bounce off because you haven't set their advice as like the arbitrary metric by which you're going to find yourself. And you're allowed to be arrogant. Even when you're new, you're allowed to incite. You don't have to say it out loud, but in your head to go, I'm a better comedian than you. And I'm going to be a better comedian than everyone. Yeah.

Yeah. You're allowed to have that little inner voice. And that is every comic who is, you know, working is that arrogant. I was going to say because I would say the thing is to remember at all times that your goal is not to be better than men two years ahead of you in uni, which is to say that sometimes whenever I get frustrated by maybe say a success of a peer, because I can admit to that that does sometimes happen or like, or if I feel like I'm judging myself against things, I'm not even sure I want, but I know my peers are doing. So I'm like, do I want that? I try to remember that I don't want to be better than the people who have been doing at the same length of time as me. to be better than my favorite comedians. And if then that's your goal, then you kind of fuss less about those people, right? Oh, and also he's the same thing as you're saying.

He's jealous and insecure and the reason that he said it is because he feels bad about himself and he wants the gate keep you and keep you in your place. Orfully, maybe he's flirting. Ah! Because they also do that men in comedy. They think advice is flirtation?

No, they think they're treating you as a peer, just saying to you, hey, if you just... Oh. Have that situation where someone who says quite hurtful stuff about the thing you're doing. Maybe they were flirting and I was too busy crying to know. Is this supposed to be arousing? Do we have time for one more problem?

Yes, I'm here for the next problem. Yes, let's hear it. Okay. This problem is from O. Hi, O. This is somebody who has slept with a girl for the first time. It was also the girl's first time and it was amazing. Wait, is the person identifying as?

Same sex. Same sex, okay, great. So same sex relationship, or same sake hook up rather. But something inside me felt, wrong because I didn't know how my family would think if they knew I'd done it. I had no issue with it, but I knew everyone around me would.

So I shamefully blocked the girl and I feel so upset with myself. Yeah, sorry. How can I remedy this? What should I be tackling? Well, you don't have any right to be in their life again. Yes.

I mean, you have, so you have no right to anything, but if you want to what this person doesn't have to do is give you any time, listen to your explanation, you've done something incredibly hurtful at something that's such a formative stage, which is why I feel so harshly that if you need to feel better about yourself, the first thing is that she doesn't need to make you feel better about it. If you need to feel better about yourself and you want to apologise, I think you have to do that with the understanding

that she owes you no apology. And if you're sending it out in the air and she's blocked you back now. She doesn't owe you forgiveness or anything. Or appeasement or a conversation about it. because I think sometimes that's what people. People want to apologize. They know they've done the wrong thing and they want you to tell them it's fine. It's not fine what you did. You must never do that again.

And I think you should go on a real journey. I understand. Well, I don't understand. I can try to imagine how complicated it is to be exploring your sexuality if you've come from a background that makes you think there's a wrong and a right way. So work that out before you sleep with people.

I mean, well, maybe I'm wrong, but because you have the potential to hurt people so much. I may yeah yes I think that's right it's really complicated and I think everything that you've said is

is incredibly true and my gut reaction too I think oh we can completely understand where that internalised homophobia comes from and like that really is yeah an awful thing to be feeling

but yeah try not to externalise it and take it out on anyone else this is a thing for you to sort of reckon with and contend with and it's a case of can you find a community of people around you that can that like you're not romantically involved with that can sort of support you and coach you through this situation is sort of a consensual way like they've signed up to be there for you so yeah you can talk to it talk about it

and then also then when you're having relationships it's something that you also that people know about you I guess you'd want people to know so then your your behavior would make sense or if you were struggling you could take it to them because it was information they already had. It's so interesting. I've got it. Oh. Don't say well.

It's well. For fuck sake, can we? Can we have one well this week? One. I'm sorry to say it was well. You should have known you read the book. Can I say that you've both been so quick to

defend I suppose a younger version of myself that in a way that I wouldn't have which is and you're dead right I think you're absolutely right I don't know that I have ever felt as like worthy of that protection like it's like queer people we sometimes give ourselves permission to hurt ourselves as a community because

we can all go well we're all having this horrible experience and I think discerning between what is an excuse and what is an explanation so like your family situation may well explain your behavior it doesn't excuse it and I think but I think that I sort of thought that was part for the course in being queer is like people would freak out after you had sex with them people would say you would want you to be a secret after you slept with them people would

deny your existence in public when you had slept with them people would objectify you when you're out if they knew that you were sleeping with somebody of the same sex people would like and you just kind of go like oh yeah I guess that's sort of just being gay or like all the way up to the scale of like, yeah, of course people have screamed at me in the street. Yeah, of course we have to check the safety of an area. And I think quite a huge thing is that we are taught we're responsible for other people's pain or to lessen other people's pain. And I think part of being in pain or having bad treatment is knowing, okay, that's about them, not about me. And so I think this person, oh, sounds like they're going through something really painful. Yeah. And that's

cause them to inflict pain on somebody else and while they now that they've admitted that and they don't want to do it again it's not this other person's that's the thing whereas i think a lot of the time also the other thing which is from heterosexual culture but i think there's probably an overlap tell us we never get any of that on this podcast this whole thing about like a messenger a man would reject you who taught in our teenage magazines a man will reject you because he likes you so much and so then when he goes oh my god i was just really scared by my emotions. We were talked to be like, and that is romance.

Yes, yes. I remember at secondary school, being on a train and a girl saying, what if the only person who can stop you crying is the man who made you cry? And we thought, like, that was amazing. What? I know, isn't it awful? Yeah.

Because the idea that that was the only thing that would solve the problem is letting the person who were treated us terribly when he was drunk, turn back up again and go, yeah, do, do, do it. And we would create a super narrative of did so much work for them it's the loves to Bill

wow wow I do think though you're dead right about like not maybe sleeping with other people until you feel differently and also doing some of the work

because it's interesting that O says in the message I'm fine with it but my family wouldn't be that doesn't it doesn't feel true and also possibly like it's really hard to have be true

if your family are involved in your life at all and you're a person with feelings like being told what you are is wrong and it having effect on you doesn't make you intellectually weak. It just makes you human. You can't just connect things that no but I used to think that like well I have intellectualized and understand that I

am of equal value have dignity deserve respect deserve rights but it didn't change the fact that I wasn't receiving those from people who love me and that that does meaningfully change your self-perception and yourself worth so it's okay if that's the case but yeah you got to sort it out before you hook up with other girls and honestly

I'd say sort of out fast because sleeping with women's it's the best it's so good No offence to you and yours, but... Oh, no, no, I'm a woman. Oh, yeah, yeah, my apology. That's my crew. She has a baby. And I forgot, yeah, you're so right.

You're so right. Oh, listen, good problem solving, guys. Really good. I knew you'd be wonderful. And you with the whales. Way, I yada. Sarah Pascoe, you're going on tour all over the shop. Where can people find tickets?

Are there any left? Yeah, loads. On the internet. Great. at sarah pascoe.com. Sarah on tour.com. Sarah without an age. Sarah on tour.

They know that. Come on. They know that. You've been on Graham Norton. Come on. I don't know. They should know. Graham with a H.

Sarah without. And on Instagram, Twitter? Yeah, I'm on Instagram and Twitter. Nice. Pretty cool. Great. Sarah Pasco, everybody. Yay.

Thank you.