Truth Unites - Christian Online Discourse: We Must Do Better

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

Gavin Ortlund reflects about the state of Christian discourse online.See the book The Art of Disagreeing: https://www.amazon.com/Art-Disagreeing-Conversations-disagreement-resolution/dp/1802541403Truth Unites (https://truthunites.org) exists to promote gospel assurance through theological depth. Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) is President of Truth Unites, Visiting Professor of Historical Theology at Phoenix Seminary, and Theologian-in-Residence at Immanuel Nashville.SUPPORT:Tax Deductible Support: https://truthunites.org/donate/Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/truthunitesFOLLOW:Website: https://truthunites.org/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/truth.unites/Twitter: https://twitter.com/gavinortlundFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/TruthUnitesPage/

A lot of my videos are somewhat intellectual, trying to do apologetics and advanced understanding on various issues, philosophy, church history, things like this. Not this one. This one is going to be very simple. Just to ring the alarm bell about something that I think is so important that every single human being should be reflective about it. And what I'm talking about is the way the Internet is shaping us. There's so much to this.

Just today, I was talking with friends over lunch about the challenge with loneliness and social fragmentation, especially among younger people. It's a whole other thing. But I want to focus on disagreements and tribalism and the combative way that we relate to each other. I read recently that Thanksgiving meals are getting shorter because of political disagreements. I thought, what a fascinating little window into a larger issue. The world is getting more polarized. We're losing the ability for civil disagreement. Now, am I crazy with this? Let me know in the comments if you think I make too much of this, I think this is a real problem. I think this is like a significant crisis that we need to hit, say, time out, let's look at this, let's figure this out,

this mentality that the people over there aren't just wrong, they are evil. Now, sometimes that's true, but a lot of times we're making this about every disagreement, and this is increasing and very, very worrisome, and the internet is one factor that fuels it, but it's not the only one. And I think everyone should care about this. So if you care about society, you know, the inability to have civil disagreements, respectful disagreements with people is a major issue in society, but especially for Christians. I just got to be honest. I think for the most part, how do I say this? I think we're basically doing pathetic, with a few exceptions. There's some wonderful people out there who are Christians, who are managing a social media presence and using social media in a wonderfully edifying, godly Christ-honoring way, but I think they're more the exceptions than the norm. I think most of us struggle with getting pulled into Galatians 515. If I just may, again, you know, tell me if you think I'm off base, but every now and again, we don't need to be super nuanced and qualified. We can just kind

of say, we got an issue. Here's the issue. The issue is Christians devouring each other. I think that's happening right now. I really think this is something that is not just a small Let me explain why this matters so much. You know, I talk about apologetics. This is an apologetics issue. Maybe one of the most important ones of our day. So let me put these two passages up. John 13 is about loving other Christians. John 17 is about unity with other Christians. Note would I emboldened in each. They have an effect on those outside the body of Christ. By this, all people will know you are my disciples. Jesus says, if you love one another. And then he prays for unity so that the world may believe you sent me. So point is, simple point. Again, I'm not going to be

super nuanced in this, just to hit one simple point. The world is won over to the gospel, in part, by how Christians treat each other. Excuse me, not just by how we treat the world, though that matters as well. They look at how Christians talk to each other. They look at how we treat each other, and that has an effect on their perception of the gospel. Put it even stronger. Some people will find the gospel to be incredible because of how Christians are talking not to them, but to each other. Now, I understand appeals about our witness can be overplayed and done badly, but this is nonetheless a reality. Christians snarling at each other is not a good look. Now, this is tough topic, actually. It is actually a little nuanced in some ways, so let me just at least say this much,

that to clarify, I am not talking about disagreement and vigorous argumentation. I think actually one of the things we're seeing is the loss of arguments, because you don't even argue, you just denounce and demean. So you don't need an argument, because the other person isn't rational anyway, they're just evil, so we just denounce. That's what I'm talking about. So arguments are good, disagreement is good. I'm talking about snark and condescension and gotchas, undue suspicion, contempt, pushiness, vitriol, malice. Just read the works of the flesh in Galatians 5. You get into this territory, okay? The whole culture of online discourse. There are reasons why this happens. Social media flavors this, you know, Twitter or X triggers a different part of our brain than the newspaper.

We have to understand how these devices are affecting, you know, it's so, they're so clumsy for actually having a good faith conversation back and forth. They're designed to trigger the parts of our brain dealing with outrage and things like this and sarcasm and snark, whereas when you're reading long-form prose, it's accessing a completely different part of your brain. But if we were to boil it all down, I would just say it's a lack of love. Christians do not love each other well in our online discourse as a general, as a general indictment upon us. I need to say, I think it's pathetic. I think it's bad. I think we need to stop. We need to slow down. We need to repent. We need to say, and be careful to not point the finger too quick at someone else first.

Now, here's one of the objections comes up is, what about Elijah when he's mocking the prophets of bail in First Kings 18? What about Jesus? Put these passages up on the screen. Jesus, he speaks pretty harshly to the Pharisees, for example, in Matthew 23, calling them snakes and broods of vipers and so forth. Now, let me, so let me address this and say, I think this is true, this is correct. There is a place for harsh speech. There is a place for sarcasm. I don't think we're being biblical or truthful, if we just completely rule out any mode of discourse like that, there are circumstances where that may be appropriate. But here's the simple, we don't need to get super detailed about this to make the basic point

is that is probably not what you're doing when you're arguing on the internet. Elijah making fun of the prophets of bail is not the general model for our discourse and for our disagreement. There is no verse in the New Testament that says, make sure you mock the enemies of God. Rather, the general model we are given, what the apostles give as instruction to lay Christians as a normal course of affairs. It's sounded in verses like these, perfect courtesy toward all. Speech that is gracious, seasoned with salt, defense that is with gentleness and respect. Or here's one, Ephesians 429, let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up as befits the occasion that it may give grace to those who hear.

This would be a wonderful way to try to pivot. I love how many of these verses in Ephesians, they say, don't do this bad thing, instead do this good thing. You know, don't get drunk on wine, instead be filled with the spirit. Incredibly life-giving that you've got the instead be filled with the spirit. So now I know not only what not to do, but what to do instead. Similarly here, it's saying, don't have the corrupting talk, but instead focus on edithful. This is a great way to make our focus on social media. I say, I'm going to try to focus on edification of others through my speech. So if you want to, but if you want to, you know, quote First Kings 18, it's like, let's acknowledge life is complicated.

There's moments like that, but that's not what we should be doing on a regular basis. Think how many more verses there are about love, about patience, read through the proverbs, and you get all these verses about a gentle answer turns away wrath and so forth. I think, especially online, I mean, if God calls you to vigorously denounce evil, it's probably not going to be through a screen, right? I hope you can help meet me halfway here. Understand, we have a major issue. I don't think I need to convince most of us. Hopefully most of us kind of sense this is a problem. The way we talk to each other online, I think we, you know, and if we want to quote verses like that, let's quote all the verses. Let's quote Matthew 522. Look at these words emboldened.

Do we tremble before these? Whoever, this is Jesus Christ himself speaking. He says, whoever says, you fool, will be liable to the fire of hell, or the hell of fire. So what Jesus is saying is when you say, you idiot, you fool, he's thinking of that in the category of murder and he's warning about damnation. I mean, I think we have a major blind spot for sins of speech like this, slander and mockery and contempt. and just, you know, this snarling at each other is a good thing. So I'm ringing the bell, I'm ringing the alarm bell. Is this more nuanced and is there a lot more to say?

Yeah, but I'm just trying to say, hey, we got an issue here. You know, let's just slow down and look at this. Because I just think this is escalating and I'm worried about, I basically think the body of Christ is being sort of ravaged by this dynamic. Again, let me know in the comments if you think I'm off base. If you think I'm making too much of this, I think this is a real issue. We know what the scripture says about the power of the tongue, right? that our speech is not a small matter.

How we speak to other Christians is not a small matter. So what do we do? Trying to be helpful and hopeful here. I don't think the answer is all Christians complete withdrawal from social media and the internet in general. Some are called to that. I don't think everyone is. And I don't even think it means a complete withdrawal from argumentation and debate online.

I just think it means how we go about it. I mean, again, in the spirit of trying to be simple, hit the main thing. thing. If the problem is lack of love, we need more love in the midst of our disagreements with others. So what does that look like? Well, here's just a couple suggestions. Number one is for us all to be more mindful of what social media is. And to realize that we do not use social media. Social media uses us. It is making money off of our envy, off of, which is envy is misery, and off of our outrage. It's making money off of turning us against each other. The algorithms are very powerful. in shaping how we talk and they want our attention and they will keep pulling us back.

And I think sometimes we can be naive about this. Just the way social media works. Watch a movie like the social dilemma, terrifying, but it's good to be terrified and realize this. If you were walking through a jungle at night and there's jaguars all around you, are jaguars nocturnal, change the predator if you want, okay, you're walking through, you're going to be mindful. You're going to be looking around, hoping you don't get eaten and you're going to be, and you're going to be vigilant to try to protect yourself.

That's how we should feel about our use of social media. We should be extremely mindful of the pitfalls. Second idea is for every single human being, especially those of us who are followers of Christ, who want to be salt and light in the world, to come up with a personal policy, just write out on a sheet of paper or even just in a few sentences.

Here's my plan of attack. Technology often doesn't catch up. The safety mechanisms don't catch up to the technology. So you have cars before you get seen. And so until you get seat belts, you kind of have to be extra careful. Well, I don't think we have seatbelts yet for social media. I don't think we have basic safety mechanisms that help restrain the evil that it can do. So we need to set our own. So just deciding up from in advance before you get pulled into things, so you're not just deciding on the fly, how much time am I going to spend on here?

What are the kinds of conversations I will and will not have? What are the kinds of disagreements I will and will not have, and how will I go about that? What is my basic purpose? Why am I on social media? You know, just come up with an intentional game plan in general, and then when we fall short of that, we can repent and do better, but a lot of us, I think we just stumble into it. We don't really have a game plan, but that's like driving without a seatbelt. We need a game plan. I think the biggest thing is just taking breaks, you know, really deep, you know, discipline to set boundaries. It'll help you. That's the thing is it'll take away some of the envy and anxiety. So I'm saying this, I'm trying to be hopeful and helpful. If we all can just be really disciplined to be aware of the Jaguars,

so to speak, it'll help us have less mental clutter and enjoy a morning. You know, I have times of the week. For me, I have places I never bring my phone, rooms of the house, times that I'm not on it and so on and so forth. I'll even be taking it for May and June, I'm going to be taking a lot step back from things. But all of us, and I need to keep revisiting those boundaries too, just something for us all to think about. Come up with a policy. Third thing is just thinking through, proactively, whom and what do I ignore? There is a lot. There are times to kind of wade into someone who's attacking you or something, and we have to do that sometimes, but extended back and forths with people on social media are often extremely unproductive. Here's a passage to

consider. Titus 3.9 and 10, avoid foolish controversies. And then it talks about genealogies, dissensions, quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. So in this context, apparently there's certain debates that are happening about the law and about genealogies. And Paul just says, just don't go there. It's not profitable. So the principle there is avoid unprofitable arguments. I think that basic verse is something we really need to bring so much onto our conversation online. There's a lot that's unprofitable. Just don't talk about it. Just ignore it. You know, we can ignore people. There's nothing wrong, which is not responding. Just let think something, I will tell you, I've had, boy, none of this is coming in a spirit of superiority.

I've just been learning my way as I go. But I will tell you, it's amazing how much something can feel significant in the moment, but if you just go outside and play with your daughter for some period of time or something like this, you come back to it, you realize, that doesn't really matter. You know, so much of that, we just let stuff go. Verse 10, as for the person who stirs up division after warning him once and twice, have nothing more to do with him. So the principle here is you're not knee-jerk and just immediately. It's interesting that Paul says, give two warnings. But he then also says, just have nothing to do with him. He doesn't say, you know, rebuke him. He says, just withdraw from communication. And that's something we need a lot online. There are lots and

lots and lots of people we need to avoid. And that's something we all need to think through. If you're trying to discern that, by the way, I forgot to pull up a copy, but I wrote a book called The Art of Disagreeing. This is so in my heart that I wanted to put it on paper here, and I talk about a lot in that book. One of the things I talk about there, in case it's helpful, is how do you know when to do Titus 310 and ignore someone versus when to not? And that's complicated, but some diagnostic questions that could be helpful are these. Does this person's behavior suggest that engaging them has a realistic chance of being productive? is addressing a disagreement likely to create further harm? Do I have any formal obligations that require me to resolve this difference, or can it be left unresolved without negligence? Could a season of waiting

or reflection be beneficial before working through a particular disagreement? A lot of times waiting and coming back. And in the book, I try to talk about a lot of things. I talk about the psychology of disagreement. Drawing from Jonathan Heights's book, The Righteous Mind, a book, our society would be so much better. every person in our society read that book. It's so helpful. I talked about different, how we all have different temptations and disagreements, hedgehogs and rhinos. Hedgehogs, when they are threatened, they retreat. Rhinos, when they are threatened, they charge. We need to know our temptations and our weaknesses. I give practical tips on listening. For example, considering what kind of trauma or pain might be underneath the disagreement, so much of what we experience

as anger or dogmatism is really coming out of fear and pain. I'm going to talk about tact and how to build trust and things like this. So it's a very practical book. I hope it helps full. But this is just, I don't know anything about this, though, at the same time. You know, I'm not trying to act like that's the book. It's just I'm trying to work on this myself. And I just think we all, especially those of us who claim the name of Christ, need to think about this more. Here's a final image that helps me. I love the book The Brothers Karamatov by Fyodor Dostoevsky. It's fascinating on so many levels. One thing I love is the hero is this very inactive, gentle, 20-year-old young man named Alyosha. He's an unusual hero because he's not real boisterous. He doesn't go around doing much. He's kind

of receptive and quiet. And he oftentimes will just listen to others without saying a whole lot. But when all the dust settles, he's the hero. What he represents triumphs. And what really wins is not just, I don't even like calling it love, I'm going to call it his lack of contempt. Ah, if you know people like this, you know this is like Jesus and this is beautiful, someone who just doesn't look down on others. You know, he sees them in their wretchedness, but he's not despising them and he's not above them. And that's what triumphs. The counsel he gets at one point kind of summarizes this. It's so good. Quote, at one, at some thoughts one stands perplexed, especially at the sight of men's sin.

and wonders whether one should use force or humble love. Always decide to use humble love. If you resolve on that once and for all, you may subdue the whole world. Loving humility is marvelously strong, the strongest of all things. There is nothing else like it. Do we believe that loving humility is the strongest of all things? See, we're going to face, we're going to see evils. We're going to say that person is wrong.

That ideology is evil. We're going to be tempted to, you know, go and try to denounce it and so forth. and we're going to get enmeshed in the algorithms. And I'm not saying there's never a time to give a disagreement, of course, again. But point is, we have to remember, the way we overcome is through love. And that's not just sentimentalism. That is the most powerful truth in the universe. And we know that because of Jesus.

Okay. Jesus said Matthew 23. Jesus went toe to toe with the Pharisees. But he ultimately followed the way of the cross. And it was through his sacrifice, his humility, his redemptive love that he overcame. That is our pathway. That's what it means to be a Christian. That is how we make a difference in this world.

And if we took that and we carried that into everything we post and comment and share and like, we said, I want to follow in the steps of Jesus Christ. That's how we're going to make a difference. And we can use, that's the thing that grieves me about all this is I really believe we can use social media. to a good purpose. I know some people are so cynical about it that they feel like it's just pure toxic. I don't actually feel that way. I think we can try to use it strategically and carefully, but we have to be so careful, like looking out for the Jaguars, you know? And I don't have all the answers on this. I'm trying to figure this out. I make my own mistakes. If you've been watching me for any period of time, I'm sure you've had times you say, you know, I wouldn't have done that

if I was Gavin, and maybe you're right, you know. I look back and I feel that. I look back at literally my old thumbnails and I'm like, eh, why did I do that, you know? So I'm, I'm on a growth curve. I'm doing my best. I'm never intentionally falling away. But point is, this whole area, we've all got to work on this. Because these mechanisms that we have are so powerful. I'll never forget, final thought, and this is my final final thought. I'll never forget watching a concert, seeing how many people were there and thinking, wow, what would it be like? I'd be so nervous to go on stage with all these people, and then it suddenly hit me. My videos get more views than that. And it made me realize, think of the power that we have at our fingertips.

And that just escalates the stakes when the book of proverb says the power of tongue, the power of life is in the tongue. So life and death are in the tongue. You can kill people or make them alive through your words. That power is ratcheted up all the more through the technologies that we have. So we should be very sober. I just feel this is very important. You know, this is more important than a lot of other things that we're focusing on.

Can we slow down and give this some effort? and give this some energy and think through, what does this look like? And even where we might disagree, but I think the key is love. Are we showing the love of Christ through the way we act online? I don't think I'm off base that this is a major problem for us. Let me know what you think in the comments. I'll keep talking about this. I'll put a link to my book in case anybody's interested in it, though this video isn't for the purpose of just that. And let's keep working on this. Let's keep talking about it. I think this is important. Thanks, everybody. Thank you.