Truth Unites - The Secret to Enjoying Life (Christians Miss This)

Episode Date: April 13, 2026

Gavin Ortlund and his dad, Ray Ortlund, discuss the vital role of enjoying God’s gifts in living a flourishing Christian life.Truth Unites (https://truthunites.org) exists to promote gospel assurance through theological depth. Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) is President of Truth Unites, Visiting Professor of Historical Theology at Phoenix Seminary, and Theologian-in-Residence at Immanuel Nashville.SUPPORT:Tax Deductible Support: https://truthunites.org/donate/Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/truthunitesFOLLOW:Website: https://truthunites.org/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/truth.unites/X: https://x.com/gavinortlundFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/TruthUnitesPage/

God is not looking at young men and young women, rolling his eyes, thinking, just hurry up, grow up, and get over this. You know, get through your 20s, come on, get serious, your 30s, a little better, but come on. He's not having second thoughts about giving us the experience of youth, exuberance, energy. He's not having second thoughts about giving us bodies, appetites, sexuality, physicality. Go ahead, give yourself permission to enjoy the God-Gympers. given experience of being 18, 25, 32, and so forth. When life should be opening up and you have every right in Christ to say, I'm going to enjoy this, I would be wrong to perceive that as beneath me, to perceive it as unworthy of him. If he's giving it, I'm receiving it by faith according to

scripture. I'm going to make the most of it by his grace for his glory. Well, Dad, I can't even express how honored I feel to be able to sit down and talk with you. I often say this, but I love saying it again, that when I think about living my life well, I think about following in the footsteps that you and mom have walked in and the model that you've set, not just in ministry, but as a follower of Christ. So I'm so happy for my viewers to get to know you and to learn a little bit from your wisdom. I think the message of your book that we're going to talk all about is especially primed for young people right now and enjoying life is a neglected antidote to anxiety.

And so we'll talk all about that. But let me just, not to embarrass you too much, but just to say one thing about how much I love you and respect you and appreciate you. You're in your mid-70s now, and you've been in ministry your entire life. And as your son, I can say you have total integrity. And mom does as well.

And I am aware, and I'm sadly more aware, the more that I live, just how rare that is to be able to say. To look at someone over the decades of life, not just in ministry, but just being a follower of Christ, and say, this is a life that I aspire to follow after. And that's in my heart how I feel toward you. So I couldn't be more excited just to sit down and have a few moments. And I want to ask you, I have so many questions I want to ask you, and we'll dive into this book. but maybe a good starting point would just be to ask you is you, in this season of your life, and you're still so active, you just got back from Singapore doing so many things.

But as you look back at your ministry, what is the uniting thread that binds everything together that helps you understand this is what it's been to follow Jesus? Well, first of all, thank you. You're very kind, and I am so proud of you, Gavin. you lead Truth Unites so well. Here's something that I consistently notice about you and your ministry through Truth Unites. Theological proportion. And your book, Finding the Right Hills to Die on, I don't know of another one like this,

that proposes a way to structure the proportions of our things. theology and our priorities and levels of urgency such that we can take a strong stand on those beliefs where we must take a strong stand and be respectfully, carefully flexible in those areas where we are at liberty to do so. And you keep demonstrating that wisdom and theological proportion such that your voice in Truth Unites provides a faithful Christ-honoring rallying point for all of us as we think through what it means to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, and our neighbor as ourselves. So, gosh, I respect you so much.

And thank you for giving me the privilege of being with you today. Now, what was your question? I would have, I could expand this into many questions. but looking back at your life and at your ministry, what unites it all together? And the heart behind that is a lot of people look at a life like yours and they say, that's not what I've necessarily seen. We've seen a lot of people who have not persevered

through ministry with integrity. And I think people would benefit from hearing you reflect upon what has that been like and what's enabled you to be faithful, not just over years, but over decades. Well, here's part of the answer, and it is just God's mercy and grace. But in Galatians chapter 1, the apostle says, when he who had set me apart before I was born,

and who called me by his grace and so forth. So Paul had an awareness that the Lord God had defined Paul before he was even born, and set him apart for a ministry purpose by God's grace. That's very meaningful to me. I do not believe that ministry, the ministry of the Gospel of Christ, is a career track. It's not a job. It is certainly not a gig. It's almost hard to say it, but it is a destiny.

defined not by me and my ridiculous ambition and so forth, but pre-decided by the Lord himself. The thought of not serving the Lord, not living for Him, is unimaginable to me and horrible to me. I'm not looking at my peripheral vision for alternatives. I believe I had been laid hold of by the Lord to lift up Christ, according to the gospel, in a proper ministerial, pastoral manner. It's why I was born.

And, you know, have these books behind me. You have helped me understand the communion of saints in a more profound way. Part of the Apostles' Creed. We believe in the communion of saints, which is this rich, multi-layered, very human, sort of gorgeous experience of being profoundly interwoven together in Christ. Each of these books behind me represents a life of consecrated labor. I knew some of the authors personally. Gleeson Archer, Introduction to the Old Testament.

That book represents a lifetime of consecrated labor. He worked hard to give me that book. so that I could serve Christ. So he and thousands of others, their contributions, flood into my life now. How can I betray them? I feel so privileged, I feel downright spoiled and wealthy to be in the communion of saints,

just adding my little bit during my lifetime. So I'm very beholden. to all these centuries of consecrated servants of Christ, and now it's my turn, to live and die with integrity, make my contribution, and then thank the Lord for the privilege. Yeah. And for me, as a 42-year-old, and many of our viewers will be, you know, even a generation beneath me.

And they're just starting off in sort of the adult years. Some of them may be going into ministry. what I feel in my heart is, Lord, help me to follow Christ as you and mom have. I want to get to the end of my life and hear a well done, good and faithful servant. There's nothing more important than that. Yes. I owe you. A covenant-making, covenant-keeping God created us in his image so that we are now in covenant-together

together. And I love being your dad, and that's wonderful. but even more deeply, we are brothers in Christ, we are in covenant together by God's appointment, I believe I literally owe it to you. I owe it to you morally, to live well and die well. Well, you have, and you are.

And I thank you for that, and I give thanks to God for that. And I really mean that. It's a rare gift to be able to have a model to say, I want to do what he did. And there's others like that too. Your parents are another set of heroes for me. So I have a multi-generational legacy. And it's kind of an amazing thing to say,

I don't need to do something new to have a good life. I just need to follow what I've seen modeled for me. And, Gab, you inspire me. You are living well for Christ. Well, thank you. And I think our heart in this interview is to encourage, especially not just young men. But as you know, my heart aches with a passion

for the young people in our culture, many of whom haven't had good models, and they're trying to find their way. And a lot of my viewers are, they're facing the mental health challenges that are so common in our culture. Thick anxiety, depression. I'm thinking of people who struggle

with addiction to social media, for example, and it's a kind of numbing experience. They're trying to break out of that. Your book, Eat, Drink, and Be Mary, a gospel call to bold enjoyment is such a word in season to people in that state. And just throughout our culture, there's so much bad news.

We're trying to figure out how to respond to the feeling of chaos around us. At the beginning, you talk about anger. This can be one way we can be tempted to respond with anger. you're giving a better option here. Maybe just take us into the book a little bit. What's the problem that the book is trying to solve? Yes.

I would love to see the Lord put his hand of blessing on the ministry of this book such that... I wrote this book to be a catalyst for a movement of young people rising up to dare to believe in the goodness of their goodness. God created existence. God is not looking at young men and young women, rolling his eyes, thinking, just hurry up, grow up, and get over this. You know, get through your 20s, come on, get serious, your 30s, a little better, but come on.

And he is not, he's not having second thoughts about giving us the experience of youth, exuberance, energy, and so forth. he's not having second thoughts about giving us bodies, appetite, sexuality, physicality. He is not having second thoughts about the way we're capable of experiencing his creation with wonder and enjoyment and just sort of mouth-watering, eye-popping delight. God is not wanting to take all that back. I was reading an ordination exam, a theological exam for a young man who was going to be ordained. And one question was, what is the gospel?

His first sentence in his reply was, man has sinned and needs salvation from God by grace, something like that. And I handed the exam back to him, I said, you need to rewrite that answer. The Bible, the gospel does not begin with Genesis chapter 3 and the fall of Adam and that disaster. The gospel begins where the Bible begins. In Genesis chapter 1, God's creation, wisdom, goodness, generosity, joy. That's where the gospel begins. And where does the gospel end? It ends in a number. new creation. God doesn't bring the story full circle by deleting creation, but by perfecting creation. And even now, at this moment, Gav, as we're sitting here, one of us, a human being, a man with a body, a resurrected body, is at the right hand of the Father, representing us.

one of us is there. He is the new creation and the guarantor that God's purpose will be fulfilled. And so the big wraparound category from Genesis to Revelation, the big mega category for the Christian gospel is God's goodness in creation. Now, if that's true, and it is, then I believe, Gaff, that in this train wreck world where everything's going wrong, and there's bad news every day, and there's a lot of shame that we're struggling with, and anxiety, fear, self-loathing, and so forth, we can land hard on the biblical doctrine of creation and dare to believe it, and look around at ourselves and one another in

this world with new eyes, and say, you know what? There's a whole lot wrong, but God is here in his goodness. And I am going to glorify Christ by going and enjoying something every single day. I'm going to poke the devil right in the eye, and I'm going to have fun doing it. And I'm going to make him wince, and I'm going to see the smile of Christ as I go through this world, living for Christ, enjoying the good gifts God has given, in cheerful defiance of everything even inside myself. Let's come back to the phrase, the smile of Christ. That will help people to unpack that.

But some, you know, the title here, eat, drink, and be merry, that can be, that will be surprising for some because they'll be accustomed to hearing that language and their mind is going to hedonism, licentiousness, and so forth. Could you say a little bit about the biblical basis for enjoying life, and especially, from Ecclesiastes. And I'll just start it up by saying, you know, it's just amazing to me. If I were just going by my own instincts, I would think a religious holy book wouldn't have sentences like rejoice in your youth. The expectation would be, well, youth is really dangerous and you need lots of restraint. Old age is to be rejoiced in. But rejoice in your youth is a phrase from the kind of theme verses in ecclesiastes. Could you? you unpack that a bit?

Well, if licentiousness, crude viscerality, self-indulgence in evil, if that were the only temptation before us, life would be simpler. But in fact, there were two temptations. One is the Las Vegas temptation, and the other is the monastery. temptation. And that's not a slam on monasteries, but there is a sort of religious austerity that has a certain appeal. I want to be a morally serious man. I'm following Christ now. I don't want to be glib and shallow. I certainly don't want to lower my standards morally. I'm a serious man. I want to bear my cross. I want to follow Christ. But following Christ is neither veering off into the

fast lane, as they say, nor is it withdrawing and retreating into dark religious austerity. Following Christ, our incarnate Savior, the word made flesh, makes us more human, not less. What we do is we bring this package of humanity God gave us and consecrate it to Christ, which means we say no to our sins, we put our foot down and by His grace in the power of the Holy Spirit, we crucify the flesh.

We say no to those impulses that sadly rise up within us. We say no to this world and it's degradation. And we say, yes, to Christ, our incarnate Lord, who created this world. This is his. This doesn't belong to the devil. And this is, he has every right to every molecule in this whole universe. And he has pronounced it very good. Am I going to call him wrong? I have no right to do that. So here in Ecclesiastes, you're right, Kav. I mean, this is surprising. But it's right here on the page, I can read English, right? It's undeniable. Rejoice, O young man,

Ecclesiastes, Chapter 11. Rejoice, O young man in your youth. And that doesn't mean just rejoice during your youthful years. It take delight in being young. Rejoice, O young man in your youth. And let your heart cheer you in the days of your youth. This is bold. Walk in the ways of your heart. the sight of your eyes, go ahead, give yourself permission to enjoy the God-given experience of being 18, 25, 32, and so forth. When life should be opening up and you have every right in Christ to say, I'm going to enjoy this, the Lord is opening his gracious hand and giving me the privilege and joy of being young.

I would be wrong to perceive that as beneath me, to perceive it as unworthy of him. If he's giving it, I'm receiving it by faith according to Scripture, and I'm going to make the most of it by his grace for his glory. So, for example, I mentioned this in the book. I was right here working, Tuesday afternoon a few months ago and starting to feel sort of lethargic in the middle of the afternoon. So I texted your mom. She's at her desk in the office there in the house. I say,

you want to go to DQ? Mom loves DQ. Dairy Queen. And we have a new one here in town. So she said, sure. So we jump in the car. Now it's a Tuesday afternoon. It's a work day. Is it really okay to do that? We figured, yes, we'll just work a little later. But so we jumped in the car, drove over there, caught up with each other. There was a flock of wild turkeys off in the field. It was fun to notice that. Said, I love you a time or two.

Each of us got a medium chocolate dipped, dairy queen ice cream cone. We came back. It cost us $8 in some sense. It took 29 minutes, so we were back with some sugar high surging through our bloodstream, feeling better, morale lifted, let's go. And we did that. We went and got an ice cream cone, caught up, breathed a sigh of relief for a few minutes under the smile and blessing of God.

Yeah. I love this. Just to energize. So what you're making me think of is yesterday afternoon throwing the frisbee with my kids. Same kind of thing. Yes. I ended my day a little early because if you have an eight-year-old boy who's saying, Dad, will you throw the frisbee with me?

Yeah. How do you say no to that? And one, so we have five children. And one by one, all of them ended up in the front yard. And cars were driving by, so we were in the street and we just move in when a car comes by, move back out. And for some reason, it was just so fun to simply throw the frisbee. And we ended up all seven of us, my wife there as well.

And I thought, you know, I think I'm just going to think out loud for a minute about this and direct me in my thoughts here. But I think this is so, this isn't a small thing in terms of what it actually is like to live well before the Lord, I think. because the ability to enjoy your life and to give praise to God for small things is a part of our humanity. Yes. And that's why you're talking about the doctrine of creation so much. And I think people need to hear this. I mean, I think of young people, for example, where in their imagination, even if they wouldn't say this, they associate holiness with nothing but restraint.

Yes. And in my mind, I'm thinking of the book of Nehemiah. the way feasting is a part of holiness and celebration is a part of holiness in the context of covenant renewal. My mind goes to 1 Timothy 4, which is a verse you cite that you can help me with this, but it's in the spirit of everything God has created is good, and nothing should be rejected if it is received with Thanksgiving. Yes. And those dovetail with Ecclesiastes. And I think to round out my thought process here and see if you think I'm on track, I think young people, especially who are having a lot of mental health struggles,

such as anxiety, are really helped by seeing this strand of biblical teaching that God is not looking over them just constantly trying to restrain them. Yes. But rather, yes, a decisive no to sin. Yes. But a decisive yes to created life. Yes. Follow your dreams.

If you want to get married, ask a girl out on a date. If you're interested in the life of the mind, go get a degree. Yes. If you like sports, try out for the team. You know, just go for it. And I think that helps people who feel constantly restrained, constantly anxious. I deeply believe that, Kav. First Timothy, Chapter 4 is a commentary on Genesis 1.

Genesis 1 says, and behold, God looked at all that he had made, and behold, it was very good. 1st Timothy 4. Everything created by God is good. And, flip side, nothing is to be rejected if it is received with Thanksgiving and prayer

because it is consecrated, made holy. Oh gosh, that's a game changer. Taking a walk with your dog in the afternoon, looking at the light that's slanting in as the sun is setting, slanting in through the trees, listening to the wind, saying hi to a neighbor as you walk by, being kind to someone, deeply inhaling, listening to the ripple of a creek. These are glories. God is has immersed us in. We don't have to be rich and famous and have big estates to enjoy, deeply enjoy God's kindness.

It's right around us. We can open our eyes and not just give ourselves permission to enjoy the enjoyable, but actually trust the Lord enough to obey him and believe him when he says everything created by God

is God. What if that's the super reality that accounts for our experience? And what if darkness, evil, pain, suffering, and the truly horrible things that are real, what if those are parasitic, secondary, dependent, contingent, defunct, and living on borrowed time? And will one day be over? Yes, they are not primary reality. Are they real? Yes.

Do we oppose them? Yes. And the greater massive wraparound reality is this radiant goodness of God, showering upon on us every day. We're going to put our foot down and for the glory of Christ. We're going to enjoy the enjoyable and declare our faith in Christ. I love it. And it does feel like a defiance of the devil and a defiance of the chaos of the world to slow down and enjoy life. It does feel, to me, just as the way I experience that, is this is consistent with, you know, you think of spiritual disciplines, like spending time with the Lord and prayer. The slowest, the slowing

down and enjoying of life, feels consistent with those. It's not at odds with a mindfulness of God. And when you think of the constant deluge of bad news that's coming at us, it feels like a way to defy that, to slow down and enjoy the pleasures of life that God has given, relationships, friendships, food, these things. Yes. Yes. I've got a great quote from, J.I. Packer, he's my favorite modern theologian. In his wonderful book, God has spoken, Packer says this, I hold the heady doctrine. I like the way he puts that. I hold the heady doctrine that no pleasures are so frequent or intense as those of the grateful, devoted, single-minded, wholehearted, self-denying Christian. I maintain

that the delights of work and leisure, of friendship and family, of eating and mating, of arts and crafts, of playing and watching games, of finding out and making things, of helping other people, and all the other noble pleasures that life affords, all these are doubled for the Christian. For the Christian tastes God in all his or her pleasures, and this increases them. I believe that. And J.I. Packer was a serious man. He was not flippant and glib and shallow. He was a devoted, brilliant biblical theologian.

And what if, you know, I wonder, Gav, if part of the next Great Awakening will include not only courageous social justice, a flourishing of the arts, the simple, a swelling of church in attendance and massive conversions and so forth. But in it all, a rediscovery that to be human is a good thing. To enjoy the privilege, the grace, the miracle of everyday life, including blah days, including even drudgery. So what? God has put his glory in it all. And maybe the next great awakening will be healing for the distresses, the anguish, the young people really are suffering.

Yeah. Relief from anxiety? Yes. That resonates a lot. I think that will resonate with a lot of the people who watch my YouTube videos who do experience that anxiety. maybe we can just pastor someone who does relate to this topic and it feels a bit distant. And it feels, they may even feel, I don't know if I can enjoy life like that, because, you know, you think of maybe someone in a, maybe their life circumstances are difficult, young parents who feel exhausted, depleted every day is a push to get to the finish line.

Graduate students who are just, they feel drowning and stress because of school. What do you think it looks like practically to embrace this idea of enjoying life as a gift from God in the midst of suffering or in the midst of travail like that? How would you pastor someone who's in a circumstance like that? That's very real. Yeah, thank you, Gav. Well, we've all been there, haven't we? That's part of life.

Part of the answer, I think, might include this, Gav, that what I'm not saying through this book, eat, drink, and be merry, I'm not saying when you finally get a better life, when you finally rise to that ideal designer life you're really hoping for, and maybe you get into that top-level grad program, and you have all the help at home that you need and so on and so forth, then you can finally attain to some perhaps entry-level enjoyment. If that's how we see it, we'll never get there. Because life is always incomplete, we never really arrive. So I think the wisdom of Ecclesiastes is

don't look for what God hasn't yet given you. ask what has God given you? Right in the circle of your common and sometimes exhausting existence right now, in your everyday life right now, what has God given you? And God, in his kindness, he hasn't given you everything you could wish for,

but he's given you something. What is it? Notice it. Marvel at it. And receive it as his, personal kindness to you, your mom is brilliant at this. She's way better at this than I am. For example, just this morning. And she was not, she didn't do this with our interview today in mind. This is, okay, I don't know if you want to put this in the video, but this is what

happened. I'm in the shower. I'm minding my own business washing my hair. I've got shampoo in my hair, and I'm, you know, and my eyes are closed. Your mother sneaks in and reaches in and turns the knob cold. Suddenly, I'm freezing. What on earth? And she laughs. She says, how did you know that was me? And I said, would it be the angel Gabriel? And she says, happy Monday. Now, that hilarious, we had just been watching the news five minutes before, getting bad news about this war in Iran. Okay?

So there we are watching the news on TV, and we're watching an interview, and it's very serious. Five minutes later, my wife pulls a trick on me, and we're laughing. That combination is life under God's grace. We face life as it is, and sometimes it's brutal. We don't shy away. We're not afraid. We put our faith in Christ. We take the next step.

We face things as they are. And it's a both-hand, not an either-or. And we turn the cold water on the shower on each other, every no and then, just for the hilarity of it. Hilarious. There's a place for pranks. There is a place for pranks. And something deeply Christian happened inside me when I threw my head back and just left my

full head off. And Gav, what she did there actually equipped me to face the day with more. energy, more umph, more let's go. Yeah. So we're going to have a lot more to offer our generation. If we draw the line and say, I will not allow bad news to strangle my soul. I love the Lord enough, and I love my generation enough, I'm going to give everything I possibly can. And the rejuvenating power of trusting in God's good word about his creation, receiving it by faith, enjoying it by faith for the glory of Christ. That is empowering and makes the world a better place.

I love it. I will keep that. But that's the most important part of the interview right there. Make people laugh. It's hilarious. I love it. I mean, that's in keeping with everything we're saying here. As we're talking, in my mind, I'm seeing more clearly this contrast between anxiety and enjoyment. And that's what's in my heart to encourage people with, as we're talking, and for them to consider this, for them to buy your book, it's linked in the video description, and learn more about this, is pursuing the enjoyment of life is an antidote to the constant bombardment of anxiety. Yes. Because we're not doing any good for the world. when we're in this paralyzed, crippled state of fear and despair and so forth. And that's not, it's not, here's another layer of this.

This is not minimizing the real evil of the world. We're not acting as though that's not real. You have a chapter on verse 10 in Ecclesiastes 11. Let me read this and then ask a question. It says, remove vexation from your heart. Another great phrase you wouldn't expect to be in the Bible. Remove vexation from your heart and put away pain from your body for youth and the dawn of life are vanity.

So for youth and the dawn of life are vanity. So as I understand what the Bible is saying, it's not saying, you know, enjoy your life because there's no suffering. In fact, it seems to be saying something along in the spirit of, life is a vapor. Yes. Therefore, enjoy it.

Yeah. Which is an interesting kind of nuance there. am I right in, this came into my heart when I was preaching to the book of James many years ago. And this emphasis upon life is of breath. Our life is like the grass. It's here today. It's gone tomorrow. Am I onto something here and holding these two things together?

On the one hand, life is very brief and fleeting. And at the same time, because of that very thing, enjoy it and live to the full. I think that's exactly the point. We don't have forever. Life is short. your moment to receive God's kindness to you is right now. And the book of Ecclesiastes is one of the wisdom books of the Old Testament. When God calls us to rejoice in our youth, and then the flip side is, remove vexation and put away pain,

we can't say yes to everything. We have to draw a line and say, no. I will not let this world kill my soul. I will not let the evening news rob me of hope. I will not let my phone drain my energy and so forth. I'm going to draw lines because I know who I am in Christ. I know how I want to live and what I want to stand for in this world and so forth. So it's an incredibly sort of decisive and courageous, emphatic verse.

Then, as you say, for youth and the dawn of life are vanity, meaning, that does, vanity does not mean stupid. One of the unfortunate translations is meaningless. Youth and the dawn of life are meaningless. That's actually a wrong translation. Meaningless means meaning less. It's a waste of time. Get over it.

Vanity means it's great. quickly fading. In the book of Ecclesiastes, Solomon wrote this. It's as if he picks a beautiful flower and he plucks it from the ground. It's now freshly picked. He holds it up before us and he says, this flower is dying.

But it's still beautiful. And the fragrance is intoxicating. enjoy it now. So there is an urgency in the book of Ecclesiastes that comes from the simple, obvious fact. Our lives are racing by. Gav. I blinked.

And seven decades went by. I mean, every generation rediscoveres as if it were for the first time that life is short. When I was in my 30s, 40s, even my 50s, I saw myself on this trajectory that would sort of go forever. It doesn't. And now I realize how wise the book of Ecclesiastes is when it looks us right in the eye and gently smiles with warmth and sincerity and says, your time, your time, to enjoy God's goodness in your life is right now.

don't lose another day. I love it. I love it. It gives hope in a particular kind of way to my heart to talk this through with you. Quick theological question about the verse. When it says, and you have it in front of you, you can read it, but walk in the ways of your heart

and what your eyes see, and then it says, but know that God will bring this to judgment. What does the word judgment mean there? Because it's not saying, is going to drop the hammer on you, I don't think, in this context. No. Yeah. Rejoice a young man in your youth, but no, no for sure.

Take this into account. Don't forget. That for all these things, God will bring you into judgment. Now, as you say, what does the word judgment mean in that verse in Ecclesiastes chapter 11? We know what it means from Ecclesiastes chapter 12, because the conclusion of the book, when he wraps it all up, he says this. the end of the matter all has been heard

fear God keep his commandments this is the whole duty of man for God will bring every deed into judgment with every secret thing whether good or evil

so the judgment that Ecclesiastes speaks of is not condemnation it's discernment God will sift and reveal and examine everything whether good or evil. So I'm going to stand before God someday. I'm going to give him an account of what I've done with the stewardship of my life. And he will bring me into judgment and he will assess how I've lived every day of my life

following Christ, whether good or evil at any given moment. Now, one of the ancient Jewish rabbis commented on this passage in Ecclesiastes and said, God will include in his judgment every time he put something before us that was truly enjoyable, and we said no. My paraphrase. Every time God gave us a good gift,

and we sulked and pouted and put our foot down and said, no, I want to be miserable instead. That's a sin. And God cannot, on that final day when we report in, tell us that we really did well when, in fact, we sinned. He will not flatter us. He will be very kind. He will be a perfect gentleman, but he will call a spade a spade. So we will answer to God if we out of some, again, this is wisdom literature, if we are not wise to face the hardship of life as it is and to make sure that we keep our souls happy in Christ enjoying his goodness, both and. Right, okay, that helps clarify.

So the walk in the ways of your heart isn't this unrestrained. untethered, untethered life. But suppose someone, let's again try to pastor someone who's, they're convinced of this, they see the value of this

and they're saying, yeah, I do live under the bombardment of constant anxiety that's being thrown at me. I do want to embrace life as a gift from God. I want to practice gratitude

to God every day. I think simple gratitude is such a tool. Let's think of some strategies to help someone who says, I'd like to do that, but I need some help in knowing what that looks like. How do I enjoy my life more? I'll mention two things,

and then I'll see what you want to add on to my list. These are two things I think about a great deal in my life. Hobbies and friendship. So to start with friendship, I think a great many people in our culture are lonely. We're fragmented and isolated, and that's more of the drift, I think, for many people. We just don't live in community in the ways that most human beings have.

I think part of enjoying life is just cultivating deep friendship being known by other people. A lot of young men in our culture don't have anyone to whom they can say, here's how I'm really doing and really unburdened their heart. I think friendships are one of the most meaningful things in, in life. And then hobbies. A lot of people are so busy and so stressed and so pressured that they don't have time when it's a day off.

They're just collapsing and binge watching a TV show. And they know that doesn't really bring me joy, but that's what they've fallen into. Something to consider is what do healthy hobbies look like? Whatever it may be, you know. What would you add? What would you say in terms of in the spirit of just brainstorming practically to help someone who wants to move towards an ecclesiastes 11 kind of enjoyment of life? Wow, what a great question. I love your ideas. Well, again, it says remove vexation from your heart and put away pain.

For me, one thing that means is I plug my phone in beyond my reach, outside the scope of my physical reach. I plug it in in the kitchen, and I go to a different room. If my phone is within rage, I'm embarrassed to admit this, there is something about it, and there's something compulsive in me, I will reach for it more often than I should, and I will add vexation and pain rather than remove it. So for me, a phone represents the increase of vexation and pain. So if I'm going to remove vexation and pain according to verse 10, I'm going to plug my phone in somewhere else

and say to that wretched phone, leave me alone for an hour. I'm going to go enjoy my life for a while. I'll be back to you and do a course. So that's one thing. That's sort of negative, positively. Just for me and mom, we get outside, most afternoons, we get outside late in the afternoon

and take a walk. in the neighborhood. Getting outside, just, it sounds, it's almost embarrassing to say, because it's so simple and doable and doesn't cost us a dime. We go take a walk. We walk around the lake. And what it turns into is saying hi to neighbors

who are walking their dogs. We strike up conversations. It's always fun. And then it turns into prayer. we pray for you, we pray for other members of the family, of course, and we admire. We talk about the surface of the water. Ducks are there, geese are there, herons are there. We've even seen eagles there.

Eagles are amazing. We look at the clouds. We look at the horizon. this is wondrous. So taking, and I need to be outside away from screens in the reality God created. And I find it realigning.

I calm down. I've come back energized, not exhausted. How many things do we do that make us feel more energized? whatever they are, I'll bet you five American dollars, the Lord is in that moment right there. So taking a walk is something I do. And it's free.

I don't need to apply to the city for a permit. Just go do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. I relate to your, I feel embarrassed to myself at how easily I can get pulled into relating to screens, especially my phone, in a more habitual way. And it's embarrassing. I think, what's wrong with me? But then I think, you know, the algorithms are very smart and they find ways to hook us. And so we can encourage our viewers, too, you know, don't feel ashamed about that. That, you know,

we're being preyed upon actually by the algorithms who want to make money off of our anxiety and our addiction and so forth. But just to set boundaries like you're saying and the hard work of discipline. I'm the same as you. I get out on my bike rides and within five minutes I feel better. And I think, why didn't I do this earlier? And so part of all of this is your book is such a great encouragement. We mentioned earlier and I said I'd come back to it, the smile of Christ. Yes. It's not unspiritual to enjoy looking at the trees. Yes. To get enough sleep at night, to go through the frisbee with your kids or whatever it might be. You can do that under the smile of God. Yes. Enjoying the enjoyable is not a concession God makes to us. Right.

It's a command, it's a holy command he gives to us. There's a reason why he himself, in Psalm 23, refers to green pastures and still waters. Why does that resonate? As something that that our hearts resonate. I mean, we want to go there. We want to stay there and live. there. Green pastures and still waters are how the Bible paints the picture of true holiness. It's not a compromise on God's part. It's where he's taking us in his grace for his glory. Man, the Lord is so good. If we take the biblical doctrine of creation and sort of drop it like a pebble into our mental pool, the ripples start going out in all directions, and we begin to see everything in a new way.

I wrote this book because I don't think of that in our generation, tweaking this or that modifying a little bit over here, over there, that's not going to accomplish anything. We need a total reset. And the doctrine of creation is big enough. to give us that gracious gospel reset. Beautiful. A few final questions that I think could help people.

The phrase, and you can help me, walk in the ways of your heart. I think this is there. And follow what your eyes see. Can you help me with the language there? Walk in the ways of your heart and the sight of your eyes. And the sight of your eyes. Yeah.

So part of what comes into my mind is to encourage young man, who sometimes the pressures against us are sort of paralyzing. And I think we want to encourage people to chase their dreams and go on adventures. That's part of life. Yes. So in the book, you talk about going to Scotland, which is where I was born, and the four years there, I think people would enjoy hearing about this as an example of this of chasing an adventure. What was that like?

And it was crazy. I mean, it was a wild roll of the dice. It was a calculated risk, but it was a risk. And we walked in the ways of our heart and the sight of our eyes. I was in the late 1970s, I was thinking I'd really like to go get a PhD. I'd love to do it in Europe, like in Germany. So I pitched the idea to your mom. And I was so clueless.

This precious young mom, you know, she has, three young children, and all she needs is to move to a foreign country and have to learn a foreign language just to buy groceries, right? So the idea flopped, let's just as it should have, and we agreed, okay, that's not a good idea. Let's just pray about it. So we gave it a couple of years and prayed about it now and then it occurred to me one day. Well, why not Scotland? I mean, actually speak English, right? And I proposed this to your mom, and she thought, well, maybe that could work. So we began to explore the possibilities

and knock on some doors. Long story short, I ended up at the University of Aberdeen, and we lived in a little village just up the River D from Aberdeen. We had a blast. We were living in California, sold our home, paid off all debts,

put the money we had in some investments, flew to Scotland. We were living there. You appeared along the way, which was just a great joy to us. We had a great family adventure together. We lost our investments along the way. They tanked, unfortunately. There was a financial reversal in the larger economy, and we came back, and we had literally 35 cents to our name. I had a quarter and a dime in my pocket as we got off the airplane in this country. And guess what? We didn't even care. And we began again at 35, 36. Family helped out. If we could go back, I mean, who cares about the stupid $45,000 that that cost us? It's ridiculous. We had a great time. And so no regrets. And it was a risk. In some ways, it didn't work, but in the most important ways, it did work. and at every life following Christ at some point is going to take a chance following Jesus. Don't say no, even if it doesn't work out. Right. The adventure following Jesus is the greatest way to live. Yeah.

Let's say a bit about, as we near the end here, to give sort of a gospel framework for this. the subtitle of your book is a gospel call to bold enjoyment. Maybe one of the reasons someone might be hesitant about this call is they don't have the sense that we're describing of God's heart being for them and for their enjoyment of life. How would you help someone who may have that hesitation understand the heart of God for them, is for their flourishing. He loves them. He wants them to enjoy their life. How would you impress that on their heart

in light of the message of the full Bible and what we know about who God is through Jesus? Well, the first thing that comes to mind, what a great question, Gaff, because we need to give ourselves theological permission to say, okay, I'll open up, you win. and it has to be, we have to do that with a clear conscience, or else we'll just go into with misgivings and anxiety. Now, the verse that really helped me, again, 1 Timothy chapter 4,

verse 4, listen to this, everything, what is it about the word everything I don't understand? Everything created by God is good. and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with Thanksgiving, for it is made holy. It is made holy by the Word of God and prayer. What's the Word of God that makes creation holy? Genesis 1131. God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good.

What is the prayer that makes it holy? It's received with Thanksgiving, the previous verse said. So going back to Scotland, a friend there told me about his elderly mother who had been poor all her life. And toward the end of her life, finally had indoor plumbing. She'd been carrying, all her life, been carrying bucketful of water into the kitchen to wash the dishes and so forth. Now she has a sink with a faucet for the first time in her life. She's standing there. She turns the handle.

The water's flowing. She takes a glass, fills it with water, turns it off. She doesn't just drink it. She's standing there, pauses, bows her head, thanks God for her glass of water, and drinks it. The Bible says, that moment was holy. a glass of water, entering into her mouth, refreshing her body. God said holy upon that moment. It should trouble us not to receive these in-breakings of holiness.

Jesus died and rose again to give us everything God gives. who are we to say no? Beautiful and helps. One way I try to pastor my own heart at times is when I feel unlovable by God or so guilty and ashamed and hopeless, just the simple principle from Romans 5 that the statement, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. And I have to remind my own heart,

if God was willing to do that for me, Then in this other particular moment I find myself in, I've probably not exhausted his patience beyond the point where as I come back into the light of his presence with a repentant heart, he's going to receive me, help me, patch me up, and so forth. And so I just want to encourage people watching this, if they feel unlovable or beyond the grace of God, or they feel as though, you know, the enjoyment of life is,

they've made too many mistakes. That might be for someone else, but that's no longer an option for me. Boy, may the Holy Spirit speak to the heart and say, no, God loves you. Yes. Jesus died for you. And the pleasures of this world that we can enjoy and embrace, like the beautiful trees we can look at and the food we can eat and the friends we can make and the memories that will echo into eternity, all of that is for you as well. It just as for others. Yes.

And faith awakens in our heart when we say, oh, the gospel is not just generic news. It's good news for me. And I can set my life upon it. When I get to thinking, maybe if I beat myself up first before I go back to God, I'll be a little more forgivable. You know, if I lacerate myself and hate myself enough. Where is that in the gospel? In the Christian gospel, we see a crucifference. Savior who says it is finished.

And we come as we are. We never even come fully penitent. We come as we are, even with that. We hold out the empty hands of faith, and we receive everything from God through Christ. Hallelujah. Yeah, praise the Lord. Well, my last question will just be to ask

for you to speak a word to Gen Z, especially, the rising generation. And I'll preface it by just saying again, I'm thankful not just for this book, Dad, but your entire life is a message to me and to others of what it looks like to follow Jesus. And I mean this, as I said at the beginning, that I feel grateful to God every day, that I have you and mom as an example of what it looks like to follow Christ in this life. And I mean it when I say, when I think about how I want to spend my life,

I just want to follow in the footsteps that you and others I've known like your parents have set for me. So thank you, and I love you, and you're a great hero of mine. And say, what would you say, suppose someone's watching this, they're 21, they're in their latter college years, they're a believer, maybe a new believer,

and they want to follow Jesus well. What's the most important thing you'd want to impress upon their heart? You'd want to say to them to encourage them, this is what it means, this is how you should spend your life following Christ. What's the most urgent thing that you would want to say to such a person? Because that's going to be a lot of our viewers here. Yeah, yeah. Well, but first, I love you too.

I admire you greatly. I owe you my best, by God's grace for His glory. And I would say to that young person, we need you. I owe you, my best. Dare to take the Bible straight. Dare to believe in the goodness and grace of God for you. Dare to believe you matter. Because you just did.

didn't stumble onto this scene by blind evolutionary forces, God brought you into history. And let's just think short term for a moment, for the last thousand years. Among the many things God was doing in history, he was funneling your gene pool down to create you. And then the day you were born, you came into this world as the you God wanted you to be, when God wanted you to be, where God wanted you to be right on time, for you to fulfill God's mission for you and no one else in the entire length of history can accomplish what God has called you to accomplish,

dare to believe you matter. Don't let this world tell you who you are. Only let God tell you who you are. You matter. And I owe you my best. By God's grace for his glory, I'm going to keep walking with Jesus. And then one of these days, I'm going to keel over and die.

And in His mercy, in some small way, I believe I'll make a contribution to you. I believe that's worth doing. That's a life worth living. God bless. Well, that's a good word for us to finish on. People watching this, check out the book in the video description. Dad, thank you so much. Love you.

I love you, too.