Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash - #103 Steph Claire Smith: Intimacy Challenge, Bounce-Back Culture and Failed Sleep Routines

Episode Date: November 3, 2024

Steph Claire Smith is an entrepreneur, health influencer, and co-founder of KIC, a holistic wellness platform offering fitness, nutrition, and mindfulness programs.  As a working mother, Steph and her husband, Josh, have embraced a unique family dynamic in which Josh stays home to care for their four-year-old son, Harvey.  Steph’s journey into motherhood and her commitment to a balanced and realistic approach to wellness have strengthened her influence, inspiring a large community on social media.  Steph chats about the balance of managing work life with home life, sleep routines, toxic "bounce-back culture" after having a baby and committing to a 30-day intimacy challenge with your partner.  *** Use the code DADS to redeem your 1 month free access to the Kic App. kicapp.com or download the app from the App Store and Google Play Store   ***  Buy our book, which is now available in-store! https://www.penguin.com.au/books/two-doting-dads-9781761346552  If you need a shoulder to cry on:  Two Doting Dads Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/639833491568735/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheTwoDotingDads  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twodotingdads/  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@twodotingdads  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ash, what are your thoughts on a 30 day intimacy challenge? I'm listening. Us? Well, not, I mean we could, but well maybe your wife first. Who the hell could last 30 days? More like 30 seconds. Hey! Well you know Steph Clare Smith.

I do. You're a big fan of her work. She is one of the co-founders of one of this country's most successful fitness apps. It's called Kick or Keep It Cleaner. She's got over 1.5 million followers. We've also got KickPod as well, which is hugely successful. Her and her husband, Josh, they recently made the commitment to each other and it turns out Ash, it did their relationship

some good. Wow, who'd have thought that 30 days of intimacy would help a relationship? Yeah, Steph and Josh have been together since they were teenagers, so you've got to find creative ways to keep the spice alive, especially when you have a three-year-old. Harvey entered the world during the height of COVID lockdown. What a time to be conceived. Oh yeah baby, COVID baby. She also has a love for jet ski. So let's lock in and find out why that is. ["Jet Skiing"]

Welcome back to Two Doting Dads and One Doting Mum. I'm Matty J. I'm Ash. I'm Steph Clay-Smith, mummer of hobby. Very good. Very good. Thank you. And this is a podcast all about parenting. It is the good, it is the bad.

And the relatable. Now Steph, we don't give advice. We never have. we never will. But if you feel like you want to give any advice whatsoever, absolutely, you're allowed to. You can do whatever you like. But we give that warning at the start. So if people are like, that didn't work, then we can be like, well, it's not real advice.

Occasionally we'll give some medical advice. Yeah. But for legal reasons. We're not doctors. We're not doctors. We're not doctors. Yet. OK. Is he working on that? You can say that. Yeah.

And Steph, we're going to go back to the very beginning. Of time. Back to when you were a lot younger. OK. What was a young Steph Claire Smith like? I feel like you were the kind of person that would be like ducks of the school. Why did you take the words out of my mouth? And I thought, I haven't heard the word ducks in a while.

I might throw that out there. Never got a detention, always got an A plus. Is that the right picture I'm painting? I hope it's the opposite. Yes. Yes. It's just like the opposite. Like I definitely, I think in the subjects that I enjoyed, I got along with my teacher

and I got good grades, but I was not academic. What were those subjects that you liked? Like PE. Food tech, like studio art, all of that. But no, I definitely had detentions. More so in primary school. A lot of them I was actually, I was very easily distracted. So I loved drawing.

And if I didn't really love a subject, I just kind of added to this thing that I called Jodder drawings, which became like little booklets of random creatures. Do you still have them? Yeah, actually. Wow. That's pretty awesome. You're a doodler. I'm a doodler.

Yeah. Well, mind your language. And so detentions were usually just because of that. And it was kind of a repeat offence. It doesn't seem like a really bad thing to do. It's like, like you were just drawing a little bit and they're like, detention. Was it a strict school that you went to? No, it wasn't.

And to be fair, you hung out with the vice principal and everyone loved him. So maybe, I don't know, maybe I did it on purpose. I was like hanging out with him. He was a nice guy. But also there was one that I definitely, I do regret. It wasn't a very nice thing, although he was a bit of a bully himself. So, you know, we were playing four square and I think I called. What's four square?

Hamble? Wait, what? Hamble? The one that goes in the line? Yeah, four square, Hamble. Okay. Oh, sorry. King, queen, ace, dunce?

Yeah, two square or four square, depending on how many. You're like back in primary school. Wow, I didn't... I'll send you a how-to later. Yeah, how did... I missed this. And he annoyed me and I think I called him a bucktooth. And then I got a detention.

Wow, that's offensive. Yeah, yeah, I was probably seven, but I definitely got a detention. Your mouth shamed him straight up. Wow. So when you got that detention, would you be more afraid of telling your mom or your dad? Like who was more strict? My mom, only just because I feel like my dad was a bit of a rebel growing up. And so through my teens as well, like I started drinking before I should have, I would skip on classes and stuff. And I feel like my mom, she was the youngest

of quite a lot of siblings and she was a bit of a goody. I don't want to call her a goody. Well, she was. Goody two shoes. Like very, very would have been a teacher's pet kind of person. And I didn't really gel with her until I got a bit older. Always got along with her. Love my mom to bits. Very grateful for our relationship. But yeah, I didn't really see myself in her

until now I'm a mom and I've gotten older. I'm like, oh my God, you were the best mom that I could have asked for and I want to be everything like you. But my dad growing up, I knew that he was a bit of a rebel and like just kind of did things his own way. So I wouldn't have, I feel like he would have understood things like that. But he was the one I was a little bit more scared of. Like if I was in trouble at home, I'd run away from him. Whereas mum just had the disappointing kind of. Yeah.

Wow. But yeah, no, definitely not like a across the board A plus student ducks of the school. No, I was like sports captain. That's pretty good. That makes a lot of sense. Did they have to vote you in or you just like, I'm going to be it? In primary school they did. Yeah.

And then in high school, I kind of remember how that worked. Hmm. But yeah. So why do you think he didn't gel with your mom? Is it just like, you just didn't click before? Yeah, I think it was just like, well, like we did, we got along. It was never that kind of mom and daughter relationship where we were like screaming at each other or anything like that.

I don't think I ever raised my voice at her, but I just, I feel like when she'd find things out or like if I'd, I don't know, skip school for a boy or something like that, just didn't really feel like she understood. Yeah. Like she's way more sensible. It's like, why would you do something so irresponsible? It's like, what? Were you skipping school for Josh?

No, not, not yet. For anyone who doesn't know is your husband. He is my husband. I was the funny story about that. I actually, my mum found MMS texts. MMS? In my phone bill, which she used to look after unless I went over.

Was it like 30 cents of MMS or something? And they were to Josh. Uh oh. And this is when we were younger. So yeah, that was a funny moment. Teenagehood, obviously. I was like, this is Josh's number. I thought you were gonna say,

this is Josh's what? Isn't that Josh's? Yeah. Did your mom have to call the number to find out who it was? No, she just knew and she, we weren't dating. So she was a bit like, what's going on? So how old were you then? I think I was like 16. Oh, yeah.

You know what those MMSs would have been about. If you weren't dating then, did it take a while for Josh to court you or vice versa? Well, so when we met I was 12. And so I think I was just like too young to go there. He's three years older than me. So you've known him since you were 12. So you would have been 15. Oh my god.

That's a long time. Yeah. 18 years. Yeah. You know my age now. I'm not that good at maths. Neither one of us were like, oh. We'll work that out after you've left. 18 years. Yeah. You know my age now. I'm not that good at maths. Neither one of us were like, oh.

We'll work that out after you've left. We thought that was 18 years. Oh my God, you're like 30. Yeah. But no, we started dating when I was 18. That is just, so he's like. So he waited that long. Yeah.

I mean, there was a lot of like flirting along the way. Yeah. People weren't surprised when it happened. Were there boyfriends in between? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there was a lot of like flirting along the way. Yeah. People weren't surprised when it happened. Were there boyfriends in between? Yeah. Okay. All right. It wasn't like it was like the notebook and he was like waiting in the rain for six years. No.

So when was the moment that the penny dropped then for you and Josh? It was basically the first time we were both away together because we both have property up on the Murray River and that's where we spent a lot of the time because our families did, up there. And it was basically the long weekend up there that we were both single. It was the first time we were both single at the same time. Spin the bottle.

And then... And then... I've... There was definitely going to be a spin the bottle, wasn't there? Not that weekend. Did he make the move or did you make the move? I can't remember. I think it was just that we were both very much aware that something was going to happen that weekend.

I remember going on the jet ski actually. Oh. And this is so TMI. Sexy. There's no better aphrodisiac than a jet ski. Oh no, my medic pike broke my headphones. It's going out. Sorry listeners, just a technical issue. Ash is getting a little bit, oh, flustered over here.

As soon as you said jet ski, I was like, I'm in, I'm in for the ride. And it was just, you know, in the way that we were hoovering each other, that it was like, it's on, tonight it is on. Wow. It certainly was. For anyone who has a crush out there, not sure how to like make it past. Jetski. Come to my house, got a jet ski.

The way he held me on that jet ski. Oh, that is, that is beautiful. Very good. All right, we're going to have to finish this up now. And do you remember when you're getting a little bit older, let's say, you know, around your early twenties, did you and Josh discuss openly the thought of having kids and what that plan looked like? Earlier on, I think, I mean, we were really lucky.

We traveled a lot together and had all of those kind of experiences in our life really early, which was really nice. So I think soon after that, we were both talking about getting married and like getting engaged and well engaged at the end. Um, and then yeah, kids was something I wanted from a pretty young age, but cause I was full-time modeling, I was like, Oh, I'll just wait till I'm a bit older and then kick my business happened. And, um, it just felt like the right time when it did with Harvey. How long were you dating before he dropped in there and actually set

two-part question and how did he do it? So 2018, we were engaged and we started dating in 2011 or 12. Okay. Yeah. Seven years. See my math work then. Well, thank you. I'm learning.

And it was such a lovely surprise. We had, we'd actually just launched the app, the kick up and it was a really big moment and it, um, we were really, it was just, it was awesome. It's went to the top of the Apple charts on the night of launch and we went out to celebrate. And, um, when I say we, me and my business partner, Laura Henshaw and Josh and her partner, Dom, we all went out for dinner and they got us, well, they got me this, well, no, they got us. Yeah, it was for Laura and I, this like voucher to go away and spend the weekend away. And it was supposed to just to be celebrating and like we're getting the chopper there. It was very...

Boozy. Boozy. Very boozy. And then the weekend came around and it was the worst weather ever, like really windy, really rainy. And so the chopper got cancelled. But what I didn't know was it was all a setup and they both totally knew about it. And all of our friends and family were up the river waiting for me basically. Good, good, good, good.

And so Josh said, change of plans, the chopper's now picking you up from the farm. And then it's going to take you to the place because of the weather. So Dalton's driving to the river and he's never been there before. And he was driving like an idiot. But we were just so excited in the back. I was like, this is going to be the best day ever. I was totally distracted. And then we pull up and I get out of the car and I see Josh and he wasn't meant to be there.

Like we were just meant to be getting the chopper there. And I was like, why is he here? Every time you say the chopper, I could just see it. And I'm just watching it go, get in the chopper. I just thought that. Sorry. It's fine. And so he was standing out there and I was like,

what's Josh doing here? And then all of a sudden, Dolan just drives off on me. And it's a pretty long driveway. And you're like, motherfucker. He just left me here. I think I started to put two and two together then. And then you just have this awkward like, do we walk or run towards each other? Just a run.

Wouldn't it be nice if you had a jet ski in his face? Like the good old days, babe. And I didn't know, but yeah, our family and friends were like in the house, apparently like peeking out of the window to try and watch. And then we went back to the house after it happened and I said yes. And first of all, our family came out and that was a lovely surprise.

But then yeah, all our closest friends and one of mine who's like a sister to me flew over from New Zealand to be there for it. And it was just the best weekend ever. Like that night we had a movie and popcorn on the deck like outside and musical night. It was outside. And he's very good. It was really nice. He is very good.

Yeah. That's good. That's good gear. If you're listening and haven't done it yet, his name's Josh Miller. Yeah, it was nice because it was where we met where we first kissed. Full circle. Was the jet ski still there? Yeah, it's still in the garage.

Part of the family. So what were the questions then that you and Josh would ask in order to figure out that it was the right time to have a family? So from there, it was a couple of years until we had Harvey. But to be honest, we always kind of imagined we'd go on our honeymoon and we'd start trying then. Oh, that soon? Straight up. Yeah. Well, our honeymoon wasn't straight after it was going to be, because we got married in November, 2019. Our honeymoon was supposed to be the winter holidays from Australia in Europe, but then COVID hit in like March. So we went into lockdown and

didn't have that. And so I think the timing was just, okay, there's a couple of things happening with Kik. We'll get through that. And obviously it's COVID, so who knows when we're going to get to Italy. But we both really wanted a family. So we're like, Italy or no Italy, we'll still try. Wow. Okay. And fortunately for us, it didn't take long. So.

Yeah. Yeah. As two men, we're quite, if you're not aware, Ash and myself, but we're very lucky in that when it comes time to having a family, well, for me anyway, the big question, Michael, what makes me nervous is what happens as soon as baby is born? Like we don't have to worry too much about pregnancy.

Just the practice. Just the practice leading into it. That's all we've got to worry about. Getting some nice visuals here. Sorry. What's it like for yourself? I know you mentioned before that you've got your fitness app. You're a model. So you're in a profession, or two professions, that are like very dependent on how you look.

My ability and how I look. Yes. So then what's it like for you to process what impact will pregnancy have on me? Yeah, I think I went into it probably naively thinking like, it'll be fine. Everything's going to be fine. And fortunately, I felt really healthy throughout my pregnancy. So there was still a lot that I could do. My routine didn't have to change too much. Again, it was COVID lockdown for my entire pregnancy. So I didn't have my usual lifestyle where I was like

flying up to Sydney or Queensland all the time for different shoots or going overseas for different things. It was in my house the whole time. So in that regard, it was okay. With my body, I think I'm just really fortunate in the timing that it happened for me. Like if I was pregnant in my early twenties, when I was the most insecure about my body, I would have probably really stressed about what's going to happen to it. How am I going to get it back or whatever. But the bounce back culture, it makes me so mad, especially with all the work that we do with Kik and everything I've done personally in the work with myself. Um, as soon as I was pregnant and I started to look

into safe ways to exercise, I started to see and get targeted with all of these ads for postpartum and like get bouncing back and everything. And I got so angry because I know plenty of women who have unfortunately had really hard pregnancies where they had to stop exercise altogether or eat really differently or even if they could move their entire pregnancy, they still, you know, gained weight as you do their body changed. And then there's the postpartum period, which you're most supposed to be the most delicate on yourself and like really ease back into it.

Yeah. But women are pressured to like, bounce back quick. Like we did before, but before the baby. I've never heard of it being referred to as bounce back culture. Yeah. So that's. I remember like as a kid, my mum used to always get Who Weekly magazines.

And it was always... Where's this going? It was just always on like the kitchen table. So you know, you'd have breakfast and you'd flip through. And I remember being younger and it was so celebrated that if someone bounced back as quickly as, like everyone was like, yeah, like what an achievement. This is great. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And it's just, it's different for everyone. And a lot of women never bounce back. Like, and was like, yeah, like what an achievement. This is great. Yeah, exactly. And it's just, it's different for everyone. And a lot of women never bounce back. Like, and that's just the thing. So I think for me, it's what got me really, really passionate about being able to connect with that part of our community. Um, and making sure that everything that we did from, from kick side was to just nurture and like educate them on that period.

And it's, it's all well and good that you want to get back to moving your body, but you just, it's so dangerous to jump back into things just for aesthetic reasons as well. Yeah. Because as I said, some people never go back to what they had before and that's totally okay. But if you're not in that mindset, that could be really hard. Yeah. My wife is one of those people that after two kids wanted to get back moving pretty much immediately for her own mental health as well.

It wasn't just for the bounce back culture, but she was like, I want to feel like me again. And I can imagine there's a lot of people out there that go, so you go through nine months of being told, okay, well look for your health, you need to maybe not move. And then you have a traumatic birth or you've got a difficult move. And then you have a traumatic birth or you've got a difficult baby. And then all of a sudden, two, three years go past. You can imagine losing motivation. Like I'll lose motivation after a week.

I'm not doing something. I can't imagine two years of a woman who's given birth, going through so much trauma and then being like, expected to be like, well, you need to find that motivation again, don't you? and put that pressure put on them on top of everything else. I can't imagine. Yeah, it is. And I think that's why I mean, for me anyway, it was taking baby steps.

I did have the added pressure of like knowing that eventually I'm going to have to shoot workouts again, so I need to build my strength up. But to your point, it was also a mental thing for me. I enjoy moving my body and I enjoy having that time for myself. And I'm a pretty cranky person if I don't, it's not a daily thing for me. Like I don't have to do a workout every day. And my routine certainly looks very different now being a mom to what it did before, but I've come to accept that because I do what I can and you know, my

workouts might be 15 minutes now and not 45. And that's totally. You find yourself squeezing it in where you can, I suppose. Yeah. But it's still, I think for me, it's like, I'm still doing something for me, even if it's 15 minutes. So it's not like, oh, I don't have 40. So I'm not going to do anything at all. That's, that's exactly my mentality.

You just hit the nail on the head with me straight away. I'll be like, oh, I've got 20 minutes. Workout's usually like, I'll be like, Oh, I've got 20 minutes. Workout's usually like 30 minutes. I'll go to the bathroom. How did you plan it then as well? I know I look at Laura running a small business. You don't have the luxury of having like an extended period of time going into having a baby.

How did you plan that knowing what the impact would be running a small business? Yeah. So I think again, with the timing with, um, I think where Kik was out and where the team was at and what we were working on and also COVID being in Melbourne, particularly, we just felt like it was kind of forever. Like it was exhausting how many press conferences we'd get excited about and then just feel really let down. And so everyone was just kind of like, this could be years or it could be next week. Like, who knows?

Every day was about the numbers. That's all I remember. Yes. And so I think we just came to a point where we were like, this is something we really, really want, um, and who knows what's going to happen with the world. So we can't just keep putting it off for the unknown and we'll work it out. So does that mean it was only Josh in the room then? For the conception of Harvey?

For which part? Obviously for the conception. Thank you. I was only here because of lockdown. For the birth? Oh for the birth. No actually really, really well it was just Josh but luckily they let me have a close friend of mine who ended up taking photos of the birth which I'm so glad I pushed for because it was like some of the photos I just I think it's crazy to be able to look back at but yeah she almost wasn't because it was very very but even the scans like

we were really lucky where we went it was probably the only place that I knew of in our area that actually allowed the partner to go in for the scans, we were really lucky where we went. It was probably the only place that I knew of in our area that actually allowed the partner to go in for the scans. And I couldn't have imagined doing that 13-week scan, the scariest one really, without him. So very grateful that he could be there for that. Because yeah, I heard some other stories of people going into birth alone and labor alone.

Oh, it must be so, so tough. Yeah, it was such a strange time. When Marley was born, I was like, it wants to come in. I was like, my mom was there. Was she? Forgot to ask Laura. That's so nice. I was like, did I not mention my mom's coming into the room?

Now she lives with you. Yeah, I wish I forgot to mention as well. She still does know. It's all good. So then what was the conversation like with Josh? Because when I look at you guys now, you guys have a really amazing setup in terms of equal share parenting.

Was that always the case that you guys go into parenthood being like, this is how the dynamic is going to work? Yeah, so we definitely had a conversation about it. Probably a lot of conversations about it, but we both were in another business that we exited soon after Harvey's birth, but that we had planned to exit as well. So we knew that Josh was going to have a lot more time up his sleeve because outside of that, he kind of just did content creation at that point.

Prior to that, he was a project manager for his dad's shop fitting company and he left that because he just, he's so creative and just felt like it wasn't suiting him. So that business was great, but we were ready to leave. And then Keek was just kind of on the upwards and I was, had no interest in stepping back. Like I definitely wanted to take my time with Harvey and to just see how that felt because I was a bit of a guinea pig Laura, my business partner hadn't had a

kid, we didn't really know what that was going to be like. You go first. Totally. And so she, I mean, it was brilliant. I think being able to work with your best friend and for her to allow me to have that time. And for us to be patient with that was really great and just kind of communicated over the years.

And if I needed to come back for more time or yeah, whenever I needed something, it was really easy to talk to about it. How long did you have off with Harvey before you and Josh had that conversation where it's like, okay, well, I need to get back to it because it's your, you know, Harvey's your baby but also keeps your baby as well. How long? It was always the plan. So like we knew I was going to be going back, but it was more so I kept saying to him, like,

if you, you know, start to be a stay at home dad and it just doesn't fulfill you or doesn't like feel good, you have to just talk to me because we have other options, like we can look into different things and you can get back into something else. Like I really encouraged that in him, but it was something he really wanted to do and he really enjoyed it. And he's had, there's been times where it's been really challenging for him. And also because a lot of his friends, they've only just kind of started having kids now.

So a lot of his friends were kind of still in that lifestyle of not having kids. Which makes it really hard. It's really hard. It's really ice heavy. They also wouldn't understand as well. And like, I still have friends that don't have kids now and it's like, they're like, Hey, come surf. And it's like, they're like, hey, come surf. And it's like, I've got to watch Macy.

Just put her in the beach. And they're like, can't you watch yourself? Yeah. Bro, she's like two. And I think it was also even just some of the comments, like if he'd had a really hard day with Harvey, he might say that he was tired or something. And his friend who hadn't had a kid yet might be like,

oh mate, like you got it easy or whatever. Yeah. Okay. You just don't get it. But the other thing is, is like, which I think there needs to be more of like for communities of dads, because I know that it is happening more where there is a lot more balance with the dynamic at home and who's staying at home. But if I was staying at home, like I connected with other moms and there was like mom communities

very easily for me to make. And whether it was like through the council or just through people Iums and there was like mum communities very easily for me to make and whether it was like through the council or just through people I knew, there was other mums I knew that weren't working in the day that I could go for a coffee or catch up with the park with. For Josh, that didn't exist. So it was pretty isolating, I think, for him. So what was his network then of support? Honestly, some of my friends, like my girlfriends and me. I mean, like his friends were great, but yeah, as I said,

they've only kind of just started having kids. Yeah, they wouldn't have understood. It's hard to understand. The full complexity at all. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I was really lucky. We had a really good mother's group, which the dads were all like real supportive.

And we're still with them now. So I can imagine like him, like I know when I have one day with the kids, like which I have like with Macy twice a week, it's just our day. It's like you're looking for someone to support the kids to be like, let's hang out. Cause you know, it's easier. Just being in the presence of another parent makes such a difference. Oh yeah. Cause you could be like, they're sort of, the kids are sort of entertaining

themselves. You can be like, you know, like someone can be watching Bo. Yeah. It's like, yeah. So true. He actually recently, probably six months ago, met a dad at the park. Cute! And um. He took his jet ski down and was like, yo! And like, I'm so happy that James, his name is. Shout out to James.

Shout out James. Shout out James. Gave Josh his number because his kid Mac just got along with Harvey so well and he was like, we've just moved to the area. He doesn't really have any other friends and I've never seen him get along so quickly with another kid. So that's really nice because now we know that Harvey's got a friend near us and that we really get along with his parents, which is great because there is also some parents that like Harvey's really friends with maybe someone at daycare or like through something else.

And I just don't gel well with the parents. Yeah. It's always awkward. That's hard, isn't it? It's always awkward. Yeah. Look, I avoid new friends. Sorry. I don't get enough time with my actual close friends that I've had for years,

let alone making new ones that don't necessarily gel well. We told that story about, remember April, let alone making new ones that don't necessarily. We told that story about, remember April, that someone moved into our old complex and my, this guy approached my wife in the park in the complex because the kids were getting on and was like, asking for my wife's number and stuff. And then she was like, she got home and she was like,

what do I do? I was like, ignore him. So we ignored him. It's hard, it's hard making friends as an adult. It is. It's, it's hard. It's like dating all over again. You got to make sure the kids get along, that you get along.

Not if you got jet skis, bro. Stay at home, dad. Did he take to it like duck to order? I know you said he had some troubles, but those who we spoke about who don't have kids don't understand how, that's a full day's work. Yeah. Like you might think, oh, Jesus, he's just a kid.

Yeah. But it's like having, like I said, it's like having a drunk person all the time. They're incoherent, they're moody, they can barely walk, they never want to eat. I can imagine. So do you remember the parts early on that were the hardest when it came to parenting? Early on? I think sleep deprivation sucked. Like that turned me into the worst person, the worst version of myself.

What period was the hardest do you think? I reckon between like three months and like five months where they're not just like newborns anymore. They can like sleep in the daylight. They're a lot more aware of everything and harder to get down and kind of waking up through the night still. And I think the adrenaline and magic of the newborn days is kind of worn off by that point. So I remember that phase being really hard. But the best thing is, is because Josh wasn't working in that period,

really hard nights, cause I was feeding a lot, like really hard nights, he could tap in. If he ever needed settling without a feed, Josh could tap in. And I know for people who like work a full-time job, being the person getting up with your partner, that's not always going to work out cause at least one of you needs to refresh the next day. When I hear parents talk about the fact that, well, if I'm up, you be up as well. I'm like, no, that's a bad plan. And I did that early on with my first, but then learned for my second. Yeah. Where I slept in a lounge room for six months. It was the best. It was bliss.

And see, and I think you just got to find what works for you because I had friends who did that, who literally slept in separate rooms with their partner from was the first year. Just because then at least in the morning for the really early morning wake, you know, the partner who had a really good sleep was kind of up and could take them and they could get a couple more hours or something. You do, you have to find what works, but I think on some of the really tough nights, it was nice to know that he was there and then even throughout the next day, like if I was absolutely from the night before he was there and then even throughout the next day, like if I was absolutely

from the night before he was there to support me the next day. And I just, yeah, that support was everything. So I think by the time I was going back to work and I did a gradual, I was online a lot at the start, like I started recording the pop for the podcast and stuff, I think two months. Wow. Wow. I just, I loved that. So I was doing that.

months postpartum. I just, I loved that. So I was doing that. We shot for workouts and stuff, probably five months postpartum. And then we had events pretty early on because we launched Kick Bump, which is our pre and postnatal offering when Harvey was like two weeks old. So I was there. So there was elements that I did early. But that's the reality of running a small business.

Exactly. And a lot of PR and stuff. That all happened really early. And it was probably around the five or six month mark where I started going back into the actual office for like a day or two and then online for another day. Started with three days, eventually worked up to four and then eventually went back to full time. What made it easier than coming out of that five month phase with sleep?

Was it just that you adjusted and acclimatized the environment? Or do you guys get help in? We did end up doing some sleep training, which is, it's really funny because I'm thinking like, you know, when it's time, if we are so fortunate to have another, like what I would want to do second time around. Yeah, what would you do differently? I think like there was just some stuff that didn't like feel right to my gut

with the sleep training that- You just hear that. Yeah. I was traumatized by the first visit. Yeah. Just like, can you remember what it was? Just letting him cry. Really?

Man, that killed me. Hey. And like, you know, the person who, which I won't talk about, but the, you know, they would kind of be like, you'll learn the cries when they're like kind of putting it on versus like when they're actually hysterical, but it just felt wrong to wait for him to get hysterical to intervene. So I think I would do a kind of in-between approach, which some of my friends did do, which was that they would go back in, not necessarily pick them back up and like fully resettle, but like I'm here like, and then

kind of walk out again, but like just keep going back and reassuring. I think we'd probably find something like that because that's probably the one thing that I was a bit like, I don't know if I enjoyed that. The annoying thing is, is it did work in a ways and like he was a pretty independent sleeper. I could put him down awake and he would go to sleep and that was really good. But the funny thing is, is I did all that

because I read all this stuff about like, if you rock them to sleep or they're too attached to you at night or you co-sleep or anything like that, they'll be co-sleeping with you when they're a toddler and forever. He's now a toddler and with me, I can't put him down. Like I have to be in his bed. You've got to get in with him. If I'm home alone, he'll end up in my bed.

So do you have to… I always thank the grace of God that my children aren't the ones that require me to be in bed with them. Do you have to like literally kind of be there touching him to him full asleep? Yeah, well now at the moment in the phase that we're in, and it's been a lot lately. Yeah, I've got some friends of the same that are like,

got a, I think, what, there's five in this too, they're going through another phase like that. And I think we definitely had a little phase like that a, I think there's five in this till they go through another phase like that. And I think we definitely had a little phase like that too, but not at three. And I feel for her. Yeah. And it, but it's like, it is what it is. He hasn't always been like that. Um, and I think the frustrating part is this very different to me too, is to Josh.

So like Josh can go through bedtime and he'll go down and he'll say, good night, dada love you and Josh can walk out. Oh my goodness. And I watched the monitor and I'm like, because, you know, and then he'll also sleep through. Whereas nights that I've put him down, yeah, he's, he pushes bedtime so much. Like he'll find everything else to do to stay awake, which I think also it plays with my heartstrings because he's got Josh a lot more than he has me.

And so I think it is a little bit like I've got you, I don't want you to go spend more time with me. So that kills me a little bit, but you know, bedtime would take a really, really long time. Eventually when I've talked him into going to bed, which at the moment it's not happening, which is killing me. The other night I was home alone and it got to past eight o'clock and I ended up just putting him in my bed because I was like, I need to eat and I actually need to go sleep now. So you have no choice but to go to bed. What does your, what does, are you really routine with him? Like your bedtime routine?

Is it the same every time? I try to, this is Josh's point to me. Because he's this pretty like clockwork. Yeah. But I think he's also like he's worked out some tricks that if he feels that Harvey's about to get distracted or like push away or something, he'll just like start telling me a story and like just butt in and just talk over Harvey and like get him distracted or something else. And then just get him there. He's worked it out. He's worked it out.

But for me, it's like, it's pretty set. Like the order's all the same. You know, the amount of books might be different. Yeah. Where he wants to read his book. I don't know, I try, in my head, it's me picking my battles. Yeah.

With like him losing it, but it's probably me being a little bit too lenient at night. Especially if you're, Josh has got majority of time, obviously with him. And then you're coming home from, from your busy day. You want, like you said, you want to extend that time with them. You might be like, why don't we do three books? Yeah.

History. But this isn't for you. This is for me. And then it gets to like, no, he gets into bed and it's, I want to take a monster truck to bed. No, we're not taking a monster truck. And then I'm starting to be like, oh my God, I need to eat. Here's a monster truck.

I'm on the couch. I'm really overstimulated right now. So, yeah, it's really tough at the moment, bedtimes. And I think it's just funny because I reflect back on like all this independent sleep stuff that we did when he was so young. And I'm like, kids are just going to do what they want to do. Yeah, totally. Some of them are going to need more attachment at night than others.

And that's it is what it is. They're small, friendly, a short period of their lives. Some of them are going to need more attachment at night than others. And that's it is what it is. They're small, friendly, a short period of their lives. So over that time, when you're back at work, full-time, let's call it, what about the relationship between you and Josh? How, how did that differ? Was there any like significant impacts that you thought? I think for us, it was just that our lives were wildly different.

I mean, COVID was one shift in our lifestyle, but then having a kid and the business kind of going up a level and needing me a lot more full-time meant that, yeah, a lot of this kind of like spontaneous, exciting opportunities and stuff that we used to kind of go with, um, weren't really happening. And so that was kind of hard. And I think for him, he was also, his whole life had fully, fully, fully changed into full-time dad mode and not really necessarily getting to be creative or working with different people. His battery is charged off of other people so like if we used

to run events or whatever, him being there and like hosting it and like getting people there, that's just what fired him up. Doing none of that really shifted him. But we've always kind of been like, he just wants more time with me. And he's just the best, but he just wants to spend more time with me and miss me and misses me. And for me, it's like I work with people all day

and I get really exhausted at work and then I'll come home. And if I have the time with Harvey, I pour everything into that and then I'm drained. It's hard to fill everyone's cup as well, including your own. Including your own. Yeah. I hate to pry into your personal life, but I have wanted to ask you a question about one aspect of your personal life.

And it's something that Laura and I try to take inspiration from. We didn't do it that well. Your 30 days of intimacy. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Actually, yeah. Good shout. How did that come about and how has it changed you after you did the experiment?

Yeah. So, so the experiment was 30 days of intimacy. And for me, like our libidos are different. Josh's is a lot higher than mine. And I think it was for us, it was just making sure that we made time for each other and like connected like that. Cause it just wasn't happening as much. Um, and it didn't mean like sex all the way.

It was just like even just being affectionate with one another. We were kind of just roommates on most days. Um, so it was really good for that. There was, it was really hard. Like for me as well, I was like, this is a lot. What? That's ages. good for that. It was really hard. Like for me as well. I was like- I lasted two days. A lot. Two days! What? That's ages! It was hard, but I think that actually the best part about it was when you know you're going to have sex with someone.

Go on. The best part about it? Go on. No, but it's just the way you treat each other just in the day in general. That's true. Yeah. Like if you know you're going to have sex with them, you don't want to be picking a fight over who didn't do the dishwasher or whatever.

Depends what you're into. Well, we didn't. Cause I, you know, I'm not into doing that. I'm annoyed. I'll be stopped. Yeah. Um, and so it was kind of good because yeah, you were a little bit more affection even outside of the action itself.

And that was a really nice habit to build. So after the 30 days, did we then continue it every day? Absolutely not. Like it dropped back down to maybe like once or twice a week pretty quickly. But it just, I don't know, it just felt really good to do. And it was a nice reminder. Did you feel like on those like,

because obviously let's just put sex up here for a moment. But did you feel after those 30 days that you connected better on all of these other levels? Yeah, I think so. And just like having more time like that together didn't have to be sex, but just intimately. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Yeah. Did you see it? Did you see it as a chore? Were you like, oh, fuck. It's like, yeah, because for us, it was like, it's for one of a better analogy. It's like that load of washing that you know, you have to put on at the end of the day. You're like, oh fuck, I've got to like, I've got to do the washing. Or like when you put it on too late and you realize, fuck, I better hang it out or it's going to stink.

Take that however you like. Do you know what I mean, Seth? Do you know what I mean, Seth? But it did feel like that in the beginning. But I think like even just in general, not within that challenge, there's days where I can't be bothered and then we do it. And I'm like, why don't we do that more? And then you go, okay.

So you definitely like you worked that out pretty quickly in the challenge. It's like it felt like that at the start. But then as soon as you got into the habit of it, you knew how good it felt afterwards. But it's so easy. And to get into that routine of just not being intimate, like where Laura and I will have just like a split second pet goodnight,

and then we roll to separate ends of the bed, and then that's it. And then you do that the first night, second night, and you're like, oh shit, it's been a month. We do get like, we do, it's actually, we're probably really insightful for our listeners because we do get listeners saying, hey, what do you do in that roommate phase?

Because everyone goes through it. Absolutely. Everyone with kids go through it because you are so exhausted. And we talked about filling cups because you could go to like families that both parents work, like April and I, both kids go to daycare.

You're all tired when you get home. And it's like, like you said, good night. It's the non-critical part really. Yeah. And like it's so easy to get stuck in it. So I mean, 30 days of intimacy, you're building a habit, right? Yeah. And it's, look, that's not for everyone, but I think even, I think just being okay with scheduling it in,

in a way, isn't like, not putting it in the calendar, but just way, isn't like not putting it in the calendar, but just knowing like- My wife would put it in the calendar. I don't know. When he got to the eight, when he was having a nap a day, it was like, okay, Saturdays, midday, that's our time. Because we knew- The best day for it.

That's on. Because it was the weekend, so I wasn't gonna be stressed from work or like tired from work. And it could be in the day, which is great, we're not exhausted. And he was going to be asleep. So.

Haven't had a big dinner either. I think that that's okay. Like, yes, our sex lives looked different when we wouldn't have to think about things like that, but that's okay. And it's still. I think scheduling it in as parents is pretty legit. Yeah. You have to.

Like we, the other day we're talking about it on an episode and you're like, it's nice for it to be spontaneous. But at the same time, the reality is like, yeah, it's like Friday, Saturday night. It's kind of like. Should we? That's the window. Sunday everyone's too worried about work on Monday.

I know. Yeah. It's a Sunday reset. We can't do it today. Exactly. I do have to say congratulations for what you and Laura have achieved with KICK. It's unbelievable. Unbelievable.

And I can't even begin to imagine how busy you must be. Does that play a big role in deciding whether or not you'll have a second? Yeah. So recently I've been able to have a bit more flexibility in my role. There was some stuff that I was kind of holding my role that wasn't necessarily my skill set. Not that I couldn't do them, but it just didn't need to be me. It meant that I couldn't create as much content as I wanted for the brand or network as much

as I wanted for the brand. All this stuff where I really do add a lot of value. So we worked through that and the team are in a fantastic place at the moment. They're working so well together, which is awesome. It's meaning that I do have a little bit more flexibility now, so I am spending a little bit more time with Harvey and at home. And yeah, we definitely want a second. And I think, yeah, it's definitely, I've worked out now how, now that I've done it once and I can see it with one, I know the step to have two is very different, but I think by the time that would happen, have you before anyway, at least.

So I feel like it's just, it's been a nice ride, the three of us. And are you fine with your second? Us who've had two, it's kind of like job experience, right? You've had the job experience and then you like, get a new job, but you've done, that's exactly the same job just about. And you're like, I found that you're way more relaxed.

Yeah, for sure. And you know what the, you know, when you have your first kid and they're so little and they're like, you look out for the signs, it's like, what the fuck is that? And then now with the second kid, you're like, there it is. Yeah. You just know. Well, I think that's the thing is that the hardest parts for me weren't in like losing myself or losing my life that I had before or whatever.

It was more just being anxious that I was doing the right thing or that I was reading the right way or like. So I think because I will feel a little bit more comfortable going into it second time around, I'm hoping it'll feel damn good. Cause I love being a mom. It's my favorite hat that I wear, hands down.

So, yeah. That's awesome. And Harvey, he's three now. Yes. I believe he is doing some time at daycare. Yeah. Yeah. How was that transition?

Probably mainly for yourself, of course, but for Josh spending every day with him and then having to go, well, here you go, man, I want you to interact with, with kids your age as well. How did, how was that transition? Josh did the first drop off, which was actually okay. Okay. Cause he was excited, but then the next drop off was like hell. And he didn't want to go. Yeah.

Cause he knew. So, because he knew. So Josh found that really, really hard. Like I remember him like sobbing in the car. And he just called me and was like, wow, this is really hard. And I found it hard too because I wanted to be there for him, but I just couldn't with work. So I actually didn't do drop off for probably four or five months of him being there. And then I got to do it.

So I was lucky he had a bit of practice, but it was very different. Did you do it strategically? So that it was like he was, it was like same with your routine. It's Josh dropping every time. Yes, but also with the time that I leave for work, it just, it would have been, I mean, I could have. You could drop him off at 5am. I could definitely drop him off earlier, but it just worked for us that way.

And I never finished in time to pick him up. And so when I was able to drop him off, it was really hard because then I experienced that whole drop off and yeah, he's only just got to a period now with me. I've dropped him off more often now on Thursdays is my day where I drop him off. And he's used to it now. So it's finally good. But for a long time, that sucked. I hate that.

I know. And we all go we all go through those days like we've spoken about a day So it's finally good, but for a long time, that sucked. I hate that. Oh my God. And we all go through those days. Like we've spoken about a day where I got back in the car, looked back and Oscar was looking through the fence. Oh stop it. And I was like, I remember I went back and got him. And I spent the day with him. You idiot.

He got you there. Tricks me. Funny, we went to Fiji recently, which was amazing. And everyone was talking about how the daycares at the hotels are amazing. And like, it's just so good for kids. But we dropped him off. Well, I dropped him off and that was the worst drop off ever. Like he was hysterical.

And the only reason I walked away was because there was another kid there that he met the first night. He was a bit older and he was such a sweet kid. He obviously was like an older brother or something or wanted to be. And he took Harvey under his wing and I was like, I reckon the second I leave, he's gonna be okay. But I was actually had a spire appointment,

which Josh was also meant to join me at, but he wasn't feeling well. We both got gastro on that trip. We all three of us actually. And I called him and I was like, I just don't feel right. And he was like, I'm already putting my clothes on. Like, I don't feel right either. And so I got into the Spire appointment.

Josh got there probably 10 minutes after I dropped him off and he was still wavy, which breaks my heart. But yeah, so then what made it hard is we moved to hotels and tried the daycare thing again. And he was just like, no, not happening. Not happening. I know now. And you know what?

I get it. It's a hard age, I think, three, because he's highly aware that he has no idea who these people are. And he's never been in this environment before. So why am I here alone? Whereas the older kids were like, yeah, fun. Like, there's a playground. It's good to be away from your parents. It's all fun.

And then the younger kids are babies. So they're just like, ooh, someone passed me around and give me a hug. So yeah, it was tough. Normal daycare now, we're in a good place. That's good. It is tough for any parent. Like we joke about it all the time, how it's such a swift drop off now. But you have those days still.

Yeah, but they said they don't want to go. Yeah, breaks your heart sometimes, doesn't it? I was going to ask, with the Kick app, I mean, myself and Ash, we've not used it before. Needs a transformation. Your words, not mine. If anyone did want to try out the Kick app, how can they do that? Well, actually we have a free month code for your listeners. Wow.

Great transition. Next time you see me, I'm going to be jacked. Can you guys use it? Yeah, there's plenty. And even in our events, a lot of people bring their partners and stuff like that. And they get into it, especially with home workouts. I feel like, look, it's not targeted towards men, but like it's not like specialized for women. Yeah.

You know, you could definitely get a lot out of the workouts. Why do we all keep looking at me? I keep looking at me? Sell it to me. I think the code's dads and it'll get anyone listening, um, a whole month free to check it out, but you just have to go to our website, which can go on the show notes and you just pop in that code and sign up to the monthly and you'll get that month, but there's everything from programs to on demand classes and recipes and meditation.

So hopefully you'll find something that you like. Wow. The new improved Ash Wicks. No. I can't wait. You're not going to be able to recognize me in no time. I'll probably do one day and I'll be like, oh gosh. Steph, one last question before you go,

because I know you have to get to the airport. You have a flight to catch. So just quickly, when Harvey is growing up and he's no longer living with you, is there anything that you would want him to remember about the house that he grew up in? Just that it was filled with love and fun. I think is, is my, I think I'm really fortunate that I have a lot of fun memories from my childhood and I'm really fortunate that I have a lot of fun memories from my childhood

and I'm really close with my parents now, I'm really close with my brother and I love being able to reflect like anytime people are talking about anything nostalgic like anything childlike let me chat about my brother. So I just I hope that yeah he lights up when he thinks of memories at home with the both of us and that we can keep the bond that we have right now because I'm utterly obsessed with him. Oh, lovely. That's very nice. Keep doing such a great job. Thank you so much for joining us, too. And good luck for when it is time for number two.

Yes. Good luck with the logistics of that. Let me sell it to you. So, thanks, Dad. Thanks, Dad. Thanks so much for listening, Ash. We always joke about getting jet skis, but... I still stand by that. I think we need to definitely get those jet skis. Let's just get one and I can hold onto your tight body.

On that note, we've got to get out of here. If you've enjoyed this episode or any episode from Two Doting Dads, please subscribe. Let's just get one and I can hold onto your tight body. On that note, we are gonna get out of here if you've enjoyed this episode or any episode from Two Doting Dads, please subscribe. Leave a review, a number of stars. We'd greatly appreciate it. Or join us on socials, either Instagram or the Facebook. We have a group on there, it's Two Doting Dads.

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