Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash - #127 Cricketer Megan Schutt On Sperm Donation And Her Premmie Baby

Episode Date: February 23, 2025

Megan Schutt is an Australian fast bowler who is mum to little Rylee.  Schutt and her wife Jess became parents through the process of reciprocal IVF, where Megan's egg is fertilised using donor sperm and implanted into Jess's womb. Despite falling pregnant quickly, Jess' pregnancy was high-risk and led to Rylee's premature birth at only 24 weeks during the height of COVID-19.  Megan shares how her family navigated the sperm donation process, Jess' high-risk pregnancy and how they took care of Rylee after her premature birth. 2025 Raunchy Ranch Calendar IS STILL ON SALE!  https://budgysmuggler.com.au/products/two-doting-dads-raunchy-ranch  Buy our book, which is now available in-store! https://www.penguin.com.au/books/two-doting-dads-9781761346552  If you need a shoulder to cry on:  Two Doting Dads Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/639833491568735/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheTwoDotingDads  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twodotingdads/  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@twodotingdads  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome back to Two Doting Dads and One Doting Mum. I'm Matty J. I'm Ash. And I'm Megan. Oh, I thought you were going to go with the shooter. Yeah, nickname shooter. Does anyone ever call you McGavin? A lot. Yeah.

People get really creative with the nicknames. And McGavin is common. But shooter generally sticks because it's the easiest one to say. I like shooter. I like shooter too. It's solid. Yeah, we'll go with that. But this is a podcast all about parenting.

It is the good. It is the bad. And the relatable. And now shooter, we don't give any advice at all. So if ever there was a question in the back of your mind, do these guys expect anything that remotely comes close to advice? We don't, and nor do the listeners. But if you got anything, we'll take it.

I mean, unsolicited pairing advice is my favourite, so go ahead. Now, we always start off with our guests when they were a youngster. Were you someone who was well-behaved? Did you require a lot of discipline? Discipline is a strong word. I probably wasn't overly well behaved. I'm one of three and I'm the perfect middle child. But did get up to a bit of mischief and I like to say that cricket probably kept me

from straying down a further line. But we grew up pretty, pretty poor. So I was a bit of a thief back in the day, not going to lie. Oh, did you? Had a pretty good five finger discount. That was pretty common for me. Do you remember the first thing you stole? No, but Kmart was regularly hit for all kinds of things. That's me now.

I've just found crime and I really like it. Are you good at it though? Oh yeah. I'm the best. Because the best used to be if the beeper went off as I was walking out and just acting really casual about it and I was like, am I a good liar? Yeah, you just feel like... Sometimes I question it but, no, everyone beeps when they're in a bra. Ash blames it on his kids.

Oh, that's actually really clever. I haven't got Riley on camera. He's got a new outfit every time we leave Kmart. New pair of sunnies. New pair of whatever I can fit. Things fall in the bag. I am more of a food stealer. Oh yeah, but that doesn't count. It does.

Nah. It does cost a living. Yeah, true. But we did start on clothes. Went straight to it. Do you remember the most trouble you got into? Was there one thing in particular that sticks out? Nah, I was pretty good at not getting caught, to be honest.

I don't know, there's a couple of times... Until now, here's the police. I'd be in trouble now if my parents were listening to this. But no, we were generally pretty good. And to be fair, it was a pretty good day. So we never got busted for anything. But I don't know, just when you have too much time on your hands and not a whole lot to do, it's kind of,

you just make a little bit of trouble. But not anymore. I'm pretty good now. And were your parents, were they strict or were they turn a blind eye to it? Free flowing and it was probably me trying to test the boundaries to trying to get their attention. But my dad was great because he was just crazy.

I was like, if I woke up and I was like, I don't want to go to school today. He'd be like, all right, don't. That's amazing. And so I wouldn't. So jealous. But it was good. He gave me like the choice.

And so half the time, like because it wouldn't take much to test it, I wouldn't really test it. I'd go to school most of the time. But yeah, and my mom was also pretty casual, like very casual house just in general, which was good and bad, but my sister probably, my older sister probably caught more of the strict parenting. And then as we went down,

we cared less more of what the kids did. I've noticed that as a parent, there's the more children you have, the more you're like, ah, that'd be fun. I'll figure it out. I've only got two and even the second, I'm like, yeah. I can't imagine what the third one would be like if I had a third one, I'd be like, who?

Who is it? Who is it? Two is please, you're two years old, raise yourself. And you've got an older sister and a younger brother. Yeah. Okay. Are you close? Close enough, we're two years old, raise yourself. And you've got an older sister and a younger brother. Yeah. Okay. Are you close? Close enough. We're all pretty low maintenance and that's great because I'm a terrible

replyer on text, but three very different humans. Me and my brother are pretty similar and then my sister is her own kind of world, but not involved in the sporting world whatsoever. So doesn't quite understand. A few times she's text to catch up for coffee when I'm in Sri Lanka or something. So it doesn't quite understand the sporting lifestyle, I guess. Who was it that introduced you to cricket then?

The boys at school. I was like always a bit twitchy, always had a lot of energy and so just kind of focused it on sport and all my best friends were boys. And one day just filling in for the local boys club, there happened to be a scout there for girls cricket. Like it was just fate that he happened to be there. And he was creating girls team. How old were you at this time? 11.

So I was a bit, even a late bloomer to it. I didn't even really like cricket till I was probably like 15 or 16 and started to understand the nuances of it, I guess. But yeah, just played every kind of sport under the sun, I guess, and fell into cricket. How did cricket become number one then for you? But yeah, just played every kind of sport under the sun, I guess, and fell into cricket. How did cricket become number one then for you?

Probably the challenge of it. It's a stupid sport. And it obviously is. Well said. You fail more times and you succeed and it humbles you very, very quickly. I guess I enjoyed that challenge of it. And also being the only really girl that played it at my school. It was a bit of a run on spite. Spite is my true motivation. So just trying to prove people wrong, I guess, and be first and be good at something and

be better than the boys. So I stuck with cricket and then made some good friendships that are still my best friends today. Are you talking about particular types of friendships? Because we love a bit of a work romance here on the podcast. Yes, your wife? Yeah, yeah, she's not a cricketer, thank goodness. But you kind of met through... Yeah, I'm glad she doesn't play cricket because that would just be too much cricket in the house. She was working for Cricket Australia at the time, was up at the National Cricket Center where we train for Australian camps.

And she was working behind the desk. She was the facilities officer, but I just called her receptionist to piss her off. But I basically like- She's the manager of First Impressions. Exactly. And I was like, I'm going to try and woo the receptionist here.

And did. So, I mean, I think we're what? Almost 10 years together now. So that was a long time ago. What was your, like your wooing move? Did you bring like dessert or chocolate or? I don't know. I'm just naturally pretty charming. Nah, um, we always said that.

But let's walk it in here. I felt it. Um, coffee was a pretty easy one to like start off with. And as athletes, we drink far too much coffee. So on camps, we probably go for four or five a day and I just either bring them back or invite her out for them. And slowly with time just wander over. So it honestly didn't take very long.

Um, but no, uh, she was working for Creek Australia for a long time, actually. Do you have to keep that secret at all? At any point where I used to work, I remember there was an office relationship and it was not that it wasn't allowed, but they were just like, oh, maybe it might not seem professional if people know. Disclose it with HR. Yeah, did you guys go, we'll give it a couple of months to see if this is going to be something rock solid and then we can announce it to people? No, I'm not subtle at all.

I love you! And so even if there was, like even if we should have hidden it, we didn't. I think because she's not really involved in high performance or anything coaching, it didn't feel like it. I didn't even give it a second of thought to be honest with you. We probably should have hid it out for a little while, but yeah, that was never going to be a thing. And I'm like very open and honest about everything. So I think had someone even asked and I was trying to hide it. I just tell them anyway

We love each other Yes we were together, we're coughing I speak for both of us, we love each other So you're from South Australia, right? And Jess is from Canberra originally So how did that work? You were just there on camp, right? Yeah, she moved to Brisbane when she was a teen

and had been working at Cricket Australia for a long time and we were going out for camps very regularly. This is back when we weren't fully professional in terms of contracts and so we'd go out for camps pretty regularly just to mainly get our ass kicked because they could and so we'd visit Brisbane because they're the only place with turf wickets all year round and spend a bit of time up there.

So I actually had quite a lot of time to work on Jess. So it actually just worked out well. Yeah. And at what point did you and Jess start talking about starting a family? I don't want to be a typical lesbian, but probably pretty early. Like you want to put the feelers out.

Is that typical? I don't know this about lesbians. I knew you guys wouldn't. I forget your crowd. We moved pretty quick. Now, I don't know, as I saidians. You guys wouldn't. I forget your crowd. We move pretty quick. Now, I don't know. As I said, I'm pretty open and honest. So like I grew up not really caring about having kids.

I had no desire to do so, but wasn't against it. And whereas Jess was like the most nurturing, caring motherly person you ever been in your life. And so like early days, it was pretty much we'll have kids and if we don't, we're not together. And it was like, okay. And with time that changed and I guess like for me, it was like meeting the right person to feel like I wanted to have kids.

And once I was with Jess, I realized that I did want kids. So it was clearly a person thing, but pretty early. Cause obviously in a lesbian relationship, you're gonna have to go through quite a process to achieve that. So. So that's where we don't have a lot of experience. Yeah. And we'd love to be informed.

Okay. So when you do make the call, yes, we want to start a family, where do you find sperm? Well, there's plenty of options in this room. Not me. He's recently had a vasectomy. Well, I said recently, a couple of years ago. I'm a proud owner of a 2002 vasectomy. You survived.

Yeah. It's different at every state and it's different at every fertility place as well. So for us, we went through Reprimed, which is a South Australian company. And that was just the first place we happened to go to. And the guy there happened to love cricket, be a part of cricket. And so I was like, this is fate. We're going to use this place. Do you mean the guy that the sperm donor?

No, no, no, sorry. Our doctor, our doctor. I was like, there's a guy there who really loves cricket. I pointed and said, here's a jump. So yeah, we went there and had really good feels about it. And they said, look, at Reprimed, you have two options. And that's you either go with local South Australian sperm or we're connected with California Cryobank in America.

And being from Adelaide, everyone knows everyone. And I don't really want to turn the corner and be like, that guy has the features that my daughter has. And so we kind of thought Adelaide is probably a bit too close to home. And there was only like 10 donors anyways in Adelaide. And they're all related. At the time. And they're probably all related. Probably all from Burnside.

So I thought, nah, they're not. And so we went right from Good America. I can't tell if you're being serious or not in terms of 10 donors. No, it was, there was 11 to be precise. There was 11 donors in Badlands. Holy shit. Oh my God. Which is not much.

And also it was super different to California Cryobank with limited details, no photos. They all had the same last name though. All the same height was weird. And so we decided to go with American Sperm and then it was just a different world of it became a catalog. So you literally sign it up to a subscription of which Reprimed pays for, thank goodness. And you put in the features you want and Bob's your uncle and you just go through it and there is certain genetic testing that they've got to have done to be available for Australia.

Like a filter. Yeah. Lowest to highest price. All the same price. They made it diplomatic at least, but it was mind blowing because it was a catalog and you just shift through what you wanted. We would have had going from 10 or 11 donors in Adelaide to thousands of donors in America. How we wanted to do it was, so we did reciprocal IVF.

So Riley's my egg and we got donor sperm and my wife, Jess, carried. And so we wanted features that were similar to Jess. And so we're trying to choose like dirty blonde, hazel eyes and like going through that, there was actually was quite a, quite a few of them. So how do you get it down to like 10? That was the hard part. Yeah, I can't, it's like, it's nice to have all the options. Yeah.

But then it's kind of like. And look at my choice. Yeah, yeah. There's that one. Well, we're both indecisive humans, so it actually did take, it was a long process. Like I'm talking about it like this happened really quick. This was over, of course, probably 12 months.

And there were a few donors that we wanted that were sold out. So in America, obviously you're paid to do it and it just goes really quickly. So all the like good looking blokes are going pretty quick. And so we'd put in and by the time that time difference, the email would get there, they'd get back and be like, sorry, they're not available or they haven't topped up and you're like, okay.

It must be disheartening for those guys. It's like, do you need more? They're like, no. 10 years. We don't need any more. Thank you. We'll call you Cliff. I thought that same thing. Cause then you don't want to be too polite in your life and

just choose people because they haven't had any vials taken. But it does tell you, so it's a max of 20 families and they might say they've had 18 out of their 20 families done and then they're cut. And so you'd kind of know the ones that have been chosen more than the others. So it does get a little bit sad. But there's a few of our top three because I'd done genetic testing and so we both like carried similar things and so reprimand would come back and say like we there's a one in 30 chance they might have this so we'd like you to choose someone else. So there was our top probably two or three we didn't get through not being enough sperm or that being cut off of their families or the next couple clash for something that I carried. So we ended up choosing this guy and went

with him. And then I just remember like six, Riley was about six months old and her eyes were still blistering blue. And I was like, they're not changing. I was like, we chose like a hazel guy. I'm hazel, you know, and then we realized we've been thinking about the wrong donor for like the last nine months. And we just like lost Hazel guy, I'm Hazel, you know? And then we realised we'd been thinking about the wrong donor for like the last nine months, and we just like lost it laughing-wise. I was like, holy shit, we've been picturing the wrong donor. Did we pick option 52 or 65?

What are his numbers, right? So it's like 01952, and you're like, oh crap, we were thinking of this one, and so we went on the profile and- Oh my God. And it was like six months of thinking like Riley's eyes are gonna change and all of a sudden his eyes are open. And it was so funny but also not.

And it was the weirdest thing ever and we ended up choosing just by like health and stuff like that. Similar features but health history was impeccable so I was like I'm not sure how much this guy's lying but he's pretty much perfect and his fame is perfect. So, um, but it was a world of information and like we could hear his voice. Um, it was unbelievable. What do they say? What's it? What's the prerecorded message? They'll have like a sit down with the nurse over there and they just have a

casual conversation and you don't have to listen to their voice, but we chose to. I thought it was like Tinder, you know, grinding and they got their little voice message, and it was like they could sing a song to you, or something, you know, have you seen that? So like on a dating profile, it's got like, you can leave a voice message, she was like, hey baby, welcome to my house.

Oh my gosh. And it was just like something like that. Oh, well that would have turned us off immediately. It's like, hey, my eyes are really blue. Do you remember were there any phrases in particular that stood out? No, he had no phrases. He just sounded a bit typically American.

You know, they're just naturally that little bit arrogant and just like. Where's the camera? Take a photo. They're really prepped in what they're saying. He tried to sound really smart, which I think, judging by what he told us he was educated with, he was smart.

But he just seemed very confident in what he was doing and it was a bit outgoing but I guess that's all Americans so we didn't listen to everyone's voice that we were trying to choose just because it got a bit weird but... Was there anyone who you listen to and go nope that's not for us? There was a couple that we listened to and I was like and I don't know if it's a vibe or you don't like their voice which is a really mean thing to say. My name's Claydus. If there was a big twang, I probably would have turned them away. You got a big wish, you got a big wish, and you're like, oh. What are his teeth like? But it was just an overwhelming amount of information and it was just so different to

the South Australian process, obviously, if we went through them. So we ended up going with that and they call it super sperm because it's extremely successful apparently. So that just totes the American lifestyle even more, I guess. Wow. Super sperm. And your decision to use your eggs with Jess, is that something that's quite common?

It's probably becoming more common. It was a way of like, I guess as two mums, you feel a bit like scared that you might not have the bond with the child if you're not genetically related. And we thought if we were in the position to be able to afford to do IVF, then we might as well do reciprocal and Does it complicate things at all? Well, in the end, they think that we might have had Raleigh prematurely because of that with two foreign bodies, I guess, with it being a foreign egg and foreign sperm, but

I was like, well, sperm is foreign, so they're really understanding one. But yeah, we've had friends that have gone through reciprocal and had absolutely zero issues. So I just think they don't really know why we had a premie and just chuck the blame on that a little bit. But can we talk about the premie a little bit? Obviously, Jess is carrying. At what stage do you think something's not right?

I don't know, for lack of a better term. Yeah, red flags. Basically it was at the 20-week mark. She was quite small, but both Jess and I were like small babies, so we weren't really concerned. We were just going to monitor things a little bit more. And then at the 24-week scan, which we weren't supposed to have, but our obstetrician was like, I just can sense something. And so we had an extra scan and she hadn't grown at all and that all the alarm bells went off and

When was the last scan prior to that? Prior to the 20 week. Yeah. Also was it 20 then 24? Yeah, 20 then 24. So four weeks no growth. Four weeks no growth, basically zero. And she went from being in like the 50th percentile to the fifth. Wow.

And then the next scan was under 1% for everything. And just all your red flags went up and they were like, look, she's not getting the nutrients that we'd like her to, you're gonna have to be monitored. We could take her out any day from now. So from the 24 week mark, they told us to pack our bags for the hospital and just be prepped to go in any day.

And at this point, she was estimated like 380 grams or something like that. So that will kind of also, you know, have some conversation about she might not make it and um, and I'm going to sound really stupid here, but what's the ideal weight that you want to be hitting if she's only 380? Oh, at that point you want over 600 at least. Holy shit, wow. It was all like, yeah, all the markers though. So not just weight, like everything was down.

And they said any day that we can scrape from 24 weeks is great. And we ended up almost getting to 29 weeks. So we were pretty lucky in that regard. But were you still playing at this point or do you have time off? I was training. I don't think we had any tours, but I was supposed to go on a tour against India and didn't end up going on that because I knew we were going to potentially have Riley in that time. Like they said, there's basically zero

chance you get into 30 weeks and they were right. So I kind of knew plans were going to have to change a little bit, but Jess was in and out of hospital in that time. We had so many scans, like Dopplers and growth scans and everything in between. So it was just, they were amazing. Like we had an amazing obstetrician and great people to go through, but this is also during COVID. So, so many extra loopholes to go through and just a lot of sass from some of the

nurses and stuff about, you know, you're choosing to have a baby during COVID time, so you can't really complain about this. So I'm a pretty aggressive human when I want to be. And so there was a lot of times that we also didn't hold me back. Yeah, didn't expect this to drag on for as long as it had. So shut the fuck up. Yeah, COVID is like, we're all out. And it's like, oh, we got to go back in.

I think the worst time was like when we're actually in hospital and you had limited visitors and it was only parents that were allowed. And so half the time, like Jess we're actually in hospital and you had limited visitors and it was only parents that were allowed. And so half the time like Jess would go in earlier and I'd go to training and come in later and I'd go to go in and they're like, no, the mom's already in. I'm like, I'm the other mom. And they're like, and they like wouldn't believe me. They'd think that I'm trying to sneak in.

Oh, no way. And so I'd have to either go around to the other entrance and try and get out the other way, go in a different wing and do this. There was a few times that they were like literally refusing to let me in because they didn't believe that she had two moms They thought I was just someone else China. That's so narrow-minded like especially in a year like what year was it 20 21 21 like Elise don't just be like no like trying to scan the system Yeah, I really want to visit this baby. I'm just so really want to go into a ward where I'm confronted with lots of small children. Yeah. Wow.

Do they know what the issue was? Why Riley stopped growing? I think it's called an Adventist cord or something. It was the placenta basically, the umbilical cord was at the bottom of the placenta rather than the center of it. And so just wasn't getting the flow of nutrients that she needed. And they kept a close eye on that with lots of scans and stuff. And we got steroids into Jess and we got admitted to the hospital a couple times

with like a decel and a heart rate basically in Riley's heart rate. And so they monitored her and a few we had it once with we got admitted and they're like, you know, you'll stay in here till she's born. So like wrapping her heads around that. And then two days later, they're like, ah, see you later. Actually she's all right. And so we'd go home and then I reckon like four days after that, we're back in hospital and they're like, okay, for real now you will stay until.

What was that whiplash like of like, it's going to happen. No, it's not. It's going to happen. No, it's not. I mean, it took more of a toll than what I thought it did. I'm like a, I'm a dad with like just high emotions and think that everything is going well and try and be the tough parent, the tough one. And so Jess is quite an emotional human and a bit more regulated probably. So I just pretend

everything's okay and we'll just be the calm one in the situation. Be like, well, just go with the flow is what it is. We can't control it, which is also the truth. But it was heavy with just trying to wrap our heads around how we're going to live our lives with knowing we were going to have a preemie but not how early or how healthy. And that was kind of the hardest part was like, not even the in and out of hospital, just like home life, like how are we going to look after our fair children and work and friends and everything else in between. Yeah, we're pretty lucky that we had great nurses in there and a great obstetrician because I think, yeah, had they been lackluster, it would have been really hard.

So 28 weeks, how long does Bob have to stay in hospital for? You're pretty much told till gestation. So like 40 weeks is the normal. That's a long time, hey. But like if they have problems and they could be in there, obviously longer. And I mean, we were so lucky. So it's 28 weeks, six days.

It was, I got a call. Our obstetrician came in the morning, was like, everything's fine. Go off, do your training, whatever. And so I finished training, hopped back in the car and I was going back to the hospital anyways. And I get a call from Jess and she's like, she didn't say anything other than,

they're doing it right now. And I was like, what? And she's like, yep, there was an acceleration in a heart rate. They've decided everything is not okay. And they're taking her out right now. So I like raced back to the hospital, which is luckily just across the road from Adelaide oval perfectly located. And yeah, that's it like two hours later, bang, Riley was out and she was great. Like she let out a little cry, which is not what's saying we expected at 28 weeks and was healthy, like her lungs were great. And so she never needed to be on a ventilator or oxygen. Did they do a C-section then or?

Yep. And I looked up at the wrong time. Um, over the sheet, which shouldn't have done, but also, you know, it's not a pretty side. It's, it's, it was more confronting than what I thought. It's not a pretty side, is it? It was more confronting than what I thought. I was like, yeah, I can see blood and gore. Like, I watch the shows all the time.

I'll be fine. But seeing it as Jess was so much worse than what I thought. So I had to hide trying not to pass out. You did better than some of us. Oh, no. That's OK. I didn't even get to that point before I passed out. I only got to the epidural and I passed out.

Ash was parking the car and he passed out. My wife gave birth, well my wife gave birth to C-sections, but the second one is the one I fainted, and she gave birth, I was still on the ground. I was like looking up like, they were like, you need to just stay there sir. You just lay down. So yeah, you did better than me,

but it's not pretty is it? I didn't even get to that bit. Thankfully, when that happened, I was already laying down, so it was all good. Well, at least you weren't hurting. You're in the right place. I know, April was like, what are you looking after him for? I'm in a gaping hole. I know, yeah, it's pretty brutal.

What's it like in that period then when Bub is born, but you have to go home empty handed. Yeah, that's the hardest part. That one I struggled a bit more with than I thought I would and it's just such a trust in the process, in the people and you know that everyone who works at the hospital is there to help people and you just obviously have nurses you like more than the others. But yeah, saying goodbye over night time was really, really hard. And for the first night, because since she was so preemie, we couldn't go to a private hospital. It had to be public.

And so I wasn't supposed to say the night, but the nurses pretended that they didn't know I was there, and I slept on these cushions on the floor. And so for the first couple of nights, it was OK because Jess was still in recovering from the C-section. So I got to be in there a little more than what others would have. It's really strange, isn't it, when you're like,

it's the miracle of life, but then in the blink of an eye, you're like sleeping on two cushions on the floor. Do we live here now? Yeah. This is what's happening. It was even weirder to watch people be churned out in less than 24 hours. Oh yeah.

To see women that have gone in there at the same time we did and be leaving in 12 hours after giving birth. Like, see women that have gone in there at the same time we did and be leaving in like 12 hours after giving birth, like here's a human take it home. And you're like, like that was more scary. Like in some ways, I'm kind of grateful that we got time at a hospital to learn how to care for a baby. Like we got so much nursing experience

that other parents don't get because they're just shoved out with their children so quick. So it was trying to be like grateful for the extra experience that we got because that was the more confronting thing is like once we do take Riley home, that's it. There's no nurse around the corner to tell us what that cry means or you know what we should be doing. So like, how long was it before you got to take Riley? We actually ended up taking her home at what she would have been 36 weeks. So we got four

weeks ahead of schedule, which was bloody awesome. And she went home on the NED program, which is basically like, she's still being fed through a nasal tube. But we could do that at home. So obviously passed a few things to tick that off. But yeah, we got a home four weeks ahead of what we thought. And then obviously we met some families that were in there that were well past their 40 weeks. Like there was some complications. Lungs hadn't developed. So some families have been in there for six months, you know? And so we're like, holy cow, we've really got a good end of the stick here. And, um, yeah, took her home early and she pretty much wants to hit 2.4 kilos, we could

take her home. So it was kind of just the weighting game because again, we got really lucky with, she was healthy and, um, they called her an organized banana. I remember just specifically that was like, well, they worded her after like two days. I was like, what a weird thing to say. So that always just stuck with me. Where does that come from? I don't know. He was a weird fella.

Our neonatologist, he was a wonderful man, loved cricket and would like explain everything in cricket terms. Oh, I love that. I'd be sitting there and I'm like, oh. So this is the first innings. It's a beautiful cover draft. Yeah. Well, that's it. He's like, okay, you know, he's like, we're out the power play now. He's like, oh. So this is the first innings? It's a beautiful cover draft. Yeah, well that's it.

He's like, OK, you know, he's like, we're out of the power play now. He's like, the sweepers are out. And he's like, we're milking the sweepers. We're just hitting ones. He's like, it's boring cricket. It's the waiting game. He's like, but you know, we're just ticking away, getting the runs. And you're like, you can talk to me normally.

I understand. So I would sit there and I'm like, that's perfect. And we'd leave and Jess would be like, what the fuck? Yeah. What did he mean? What is rain delay? Jess would be like, I have no idea what he What did he mean? What is randallay? I have no idea what he just said. And I'm like, okay, she's doing well.

All right. Just to take out of that, she's doing well. So he was, but yeah, early days he called her organized banana. I was like, what a strange thing to call it. And then that just like kind of stuck and she knew what she was doing. And I was just like, he didn't take Riley. I go, how's that? No, but he was like, he would like kind of wake her if he wanted her attention.

Like the first rule is to not wake the baby, right? So I'm like, why are you waking my baby? But he was wonderful. And yeah, she was really good. Like we were only had a couple of days that we kind of went backwards while we're in there. So our actual experience in the hospital was smooth as well as smooth as it could possibly get. But it was just trying to juggle that with with training was a bit annoying, but still a decent position, I guess.

Going back and forth from the hospital and being in that situation for any family, I can't imagine the toll it takes on you when you do finally get home. How did you cope when you were home, you were a family, you're back with, you have dogs, cats, or you're all back together, how did you handle it? It was overwhelming.

I reckon we got maybe two hours of sleep each night for the first month. It was insane. Riley's still a terrible sleeper, so that's great. That one didn't wear out. But yeah, we have a dog and a cat, and those two just absolutely blanked Riley, didn't care about her existence whatsoever.

So it was kind of great, because we were sad. We were hoping they would really bond, but they just didn't give a shit yet. But it was mainly of great because we were sad, we were like hoping they would really bond but they just didn't give a shit yet. But it was mainly like scary because we're like, as I said, we're on our own now, we don't have a nurse to just call up. Like we were probably overprotective because of her start to life and like taking her out for a walk, we'll probably, you know, wait for the perfect conditions rather than just going, no, we all need to be outdoors. Like we've been trapped inside and just, we were probably a bit too sensitive to

things and we were super rigid with following every rule ever told about, um, to be around newborns. And then obviously we covered around, like if anyone sneezed or something, we're like, Oh my God, we need to get out of here. Um, and it was just like, it was a weird time. Um, but it was also really cool cause we're finally home in our own space. I didn't have really too much cricket until Big Bash started, so I was home a lot.

And being able to adjust to home life was really nice. It was just a little bit different than what we'd expected. And again, if we have a second child, I think we'd be a bit more lax with that one. I read somewhere, and tell me if this is not something you've spoken about openly before, but Jess went through postnatal depression. When did you realize that that was something that you guys were going to start tackling?

We probably didn't address it as early as we should have. I mean, the signs were there, but as I said, I'm probably not the best with handling my own emotions. So when you say the signs for people out there who may have no idea, what do you now know in hindsight what those signs were? Probably not connecting with Riley as much as a mother would, and then she would get the guilts about not connecting with Riley. So it was kind of the double fold there.

That was the main one, and just being unhappy a lot of the time, and not appreciating the small moments, I guess. And we'd have our moments of joy, don't get me wrong, but I guess the overall feel was probably sadness. And Riley was a really tough baby. Like she didn't sleep, witching out was absolute hell. And you'd just get that anxiety would come

as like five minutes to six, she was just bang on. And you just knew it was coming. And it lasts about an hour and a half, like months on end. you're like this is horrible and I think we blamed a lot of it on Riley being hard rather than realizing that it was actually more of a mental side for Jess so I mean I'm pretty good at like keeping things light-hearted and would just try and make things fun and probably brushed it off a little bit I guess when Jess was

like I'm not feeling well and finally addressed it. It's tough when there's no sleep too, like for any parent, like that early stage, like you just, the phrase witching hour makes my hand stand on end. And I'm like, oh. It makes me anxious now. Yeah, it's probably really hard to, I mean, now you look back and see the signs, but in the moment, you're just too tired.

You're just trying to function. Like you're just trying to get by and look after that human. And we probably didn't talk about our feelings a lot because we're just too focused on Riley. And you do, you forget about your relationship and that takes time to, I guess, become the center of attention, I guess. And it never really truly goes back to the same. But I think we weren't probably communicating at all because we're just in function mode of just tick off a box and try and keep Riley safe and healthy and then we're getting by life. And then because things probably weren't getting better with Riley for a long time, it was

probably dragged on a bit longer and then we're like, we probably need to address some things. Did you seek help together? Was there anything you did that really helped you overcome that? Jess started seeing a psych. I probably should have in hindsight. Again, I would filter everything into sport and just take my mind off it by extra training or just find a way to weasel sport as the way out of it.

And eventually had my own little mental breakdown, I guess, and finally started seeing a psych. But Jess was good and eventually saw a psych, and that helped her immediately of just feeling like you're a part of something and knowing you're not alone, and so many people feel like this. That was the most reassuring thing, because every mother on social media obviously mainly posts the good stuff for her parents.

The way you described the beginning, early stages of Riley's life, it's to a T, it was with Lola, our second. described the beginning early stages of Riley's life, it was with Lola, our second. Identical, it was crazy. I must be the only one dealing with this. When someone like yourself or we've had other people open up about it on a podcast. They go, oh, hang on a minute, other people are dealing with the same thing. Well, we all need to talk about the bad times more.

I guess that's the relatable part. Good plug-in for you. We all just post, obviously, the happy photos and stuff that happen or the funny shut themselves photos, everything we all laugh about. But the hard times of Jess not getting too much free time to just go get a coffee by herself or wanting to play her own music in the car versus something for Riley and like the little things

that I would take for granted with my sport and being able to go away. Cause I would get the guilt of being away from Riley. Yeah, what was your schedule like when you had to start playing again? Pretty much just went back to being away a lot. Like we're on a bad year, we're away, like physically out of home, like six months of the year.

And then you think of trainings in between our own camps for Australia in between, state staff, Big Bash, everything that comes into play. You're on the road a hell of a lot. And so I tried to transition slowly back in with Big Bash and not go to the first couple of away games that we had. But after that, there was kind of no control. Like at the end of the day, you've got to go back to your job, I guess.

And that was hard. So I'd have the guilt of like leaving Riley, leaving Jess with Riley, knowing how anxious Riley was. And we're so blessed to have Jess's parents down with us. But I'd come back and then I'd kind of get angry at Jess for not understanding my guilt, knowing she's got a completely different lifestyle and her, like my things that I was guilty about, which was being away, you know, being in my own free time is exactly what she needed. And so it probably took a while for her to communicate what she needed to feel better.

And for me to actually push for that and go like, no, I'll take Riley for the next two hours if you just want to go sit on the grass. Yeah, the park down the road, you go do it. And we probably took too long to get to that of Jess actually saying, this is what I need, can you help me versus, I probably should have been asking as well, what do you need to feel better for yourself?

And we eventually got there. But it's easy at this point to look back and it's so obvious sometimes. I used to call it getting eggy. And if I got too eggy, it just means I was getting a bit shitty. And Laura would say, you just need to go for a walk. Like just go for a walk for 20 minutes or just go for like a half an hour run,

just get out there. And something as simple as that is what you need. But in the moment, you don't think it's going to make much of a difference? You don't regulate as well as you'd hope, which has been the blessing of having a child, is realizing that we do not regulate as adults the way that we think we do. So, it's been like, that was a huge learning curve of even realizing what I need, like what fills my bucket outside of cricket. I didn't really realize what that was until Raleigh kind of came around

and Jess started playing soccer again. And so that kind of was like an escape for her at least a few nights a week and for games and stuff like that. So it was like, we slowly filled that cut back up, but that took far longer than probably what it should have if we just probably communicated a bit better. But it was a learning curve for all of us in realizing we probably didn't communicate as well as what we thought we did pre-Riley anyway. So it's been a relationship curve as well.

Is this psych responsible for this or is this you guys figuring it out over time? I think a bit of both. I think the psych was great for her deep dark thoughts that I've not even really asked her about because that's for her to share if she wants to. But I've got my own psych that I see as well. And I think the combo of us coming home and sharing bits and pieces about like what we learned in that and then molding it together was the big learning curve

and going, why weren't we doing this beforehand, for one. But two, also just listening to each other more. I mean we all speak about love languages and we joke about people matching because of them, but really actually making sure that you are ticking those boxes off because I think the simple things of the love language is really important when you've got another little human to focus on. Yeah, Sykes is really good at giving you the tools for that because you might personally be like, okay, well, I know what I need and Jess might know what she needs, but how do

we communicate that properly and it's done properly so that we can resolve a problem or fill each other's carp or get back to the love language that you talk about. So they're really good at giving tools. It takes a lot of time though. Yeah, for sure. Do you think that you will ever carry? I'm a 50-50. I'm like, I was probably more inclined to carry pre-Riley,

but now knowing everything that can go wrong in a pregnancy, that's exactly how I feel. And like everyone will be like, yeah, you're an athlete, like you might just not want to ruin your body. I don't give a shit about that. I don't care about ruining my body. I'll fix it back up.

But it's the fact that I'm now educated on what can go wrong at any stage throughout a pregnancy. It's like when people get to the 14-week mark and then they post about, they finally reveal, I'm out of danger. I'll tell people I'm pregnant now. You're never out of danger. And that freaks me the shit out.

And now that we've had that bad experience, and generally when you have a premier, you're probably gonna have another premier is what you're told. And so it's kind of like, I scared the shit out of me. Like I would say I'm less likely to carry now that we've had Raleigh and if we ever decide on that, like I'm happy to do it, I'll just be scared the whole time.

If you do it again, do you use the same sperm that you used the first time? Yeah, so you've got to make sure you buy in bulk. A bit of a Costco shop. We do. We've taken this wrongly. Which is expensive as hell, so we're just lucky. Hey, what's that cake for in your living room?

Well, you would never. We're running out of it now. It is. You do buy in bulk. You don't know how long it's going to take, though. So our process was different with, I got a heap of eggs out, it was great, bragged about it. We got a heap of embryos and then we got Riley first go.

So we were like, holy shit, this process is easy. And so there's technically eight embryos frozen, eight mini Riley's still waiting to come. But it's like trying to have enough sperm. So like if he hasn't topped up and so we've now got I think two vials left of sperm and that would be enough to, so we've just recently got Jess's eggs out and wasted, not wasted, shouldn't say wasted, used a vial and so he hasn't topped up and it's like well he might never and so he hasn't completely cut off his line but

he hasn't topped up which is a weird thing to say. I just picture him going, oh try his arm again! Come on guys, give me five more minutes. And so you've got to kind of plan because you don't know how long it's going to take and so we just went, okay we'll buy five vials, ship them over and yeah so he hasn't topped up and then you've got to have the convo's of you know if we used it all up would we use another donor, would we just go back to the embryos that we have stored knowing that we'll probably have a preemie baby again?

And then how does it work with my job having Riley and Jess be at the hospital with a preemie? And so it just brings you more conversations. But yeah, we'd look to use the same sperm. Admittedly, there's probably like one or two cycles of that left. And after that, it would just be a discussion of what we want to do and if he's topped up, but it doesn't look like he will. So when you said that in the clinic that you went to in Adelaide, there's only 11 different men who

had given samples. Is it as simple as more men need to donate or is there red tape that's stopping people from donating? It's a process in Australia. So obviously in America, you get paid. So there's incentive for people to do it. But at the same time apparently they go through psych sessions to make sure they're not just abusing the system. I don't quite believe that, they're probably just abusing the system.

But in Australia you do gotta go through psych sessions so that you're not, the way she worded it, I remember the nurse was like, well we don't want a guy coming in being like, I think I'm genetically superior, I wanna give my genes, rather than just a genuine guy going, I wanna help families who are struggling to conceive.

So we're going to wean out the psychopaths. Yeah, pretty much. I want to take over the world with my own semen. But also if it's a good looking lad, then you might as well. Have you seen this jawline? That's a great dictator. We'll take him. But yeah, it was, there is quite a few barriers.

And again, it's different in every state and the regulation is different. And I mean, that Netflix docker came about that guy in Sweden or wherever, who had ended up fathering like a thousand different kids because the regulations weren't the same in every country and he thought he was superior. And so it's like, there's a lot of hoops you got to jump through in Australia, but it is not enough men donate. We were trying to push up numbers through some promos, but it's a bit of a weird thing to like advocate for

in some ways. But. Send us your sperm. Yeah, like just, here's a cup for everyone, free cup for everyone. If you donate, great, but yeah. See, if someone was listening and they're thinking, I like the idea of enabling a family to start,

and if I can help with that process, great. Do they just reach out and Google the nearest clinic? I'm assuming that would be the case. As I said, it's different at every single clinic, so I'm sure there'd be different processes to go through. But I think it'd be as easy as Googling and finding a local clinic and calling them up and seeing where you start from there.

Because I imagine that most folks that are doing it for free are doing it for the right causes. So you'd like to think that there's a lot of men out there that could do it. Sorry Ash. Not you. Oh come on guys. I said good man. I've done my thing.

I've got kids. You've been snipped. Shooter, I think parenting is incredible. It's amazing. I love it. It wouldn't change it for anything in the world. But at the same time, there's so many moments that are so fucking hard

and you're just in the depths of trying to survive. And it's so nice to hear someone talk about it so openly in the way that you have. So thank you. Anytime. I mean, as I said, we need to talk about these things a bit more open-hearted than what people do, but I could chat about parenting for three different hours.

So I'm going to put a question. Good pleasure. Thanks, Shooter. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal

and Torres Strait Islander peoples today.