Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash - #151 What's A Doula And Do I Need One?

Episode Date: June 15, 2025

Have you ever thought about hiring a trained companion for your next birth?  Alice Worthy is a Modern Doula, and she is paid to hold a woman's hand as she brings new life into the world.  We chat about the differences between a doula and a midwife, how partners can support mum during the throes of birth and Alice's most memorable birth story that ended in a newly renovated bathroom.  BUY OUR SMELLY T SHIRTS HERE  https://www.twodotingdads.com/category/all-products Buy our book, which is now available in-store! https://www.penguin.com.au/books/two-doting-dads-9781761346552  If you need a shoulder to cry on:  Two Doting Dads Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/639833491568735/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheTwoDotingDads  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twodotingdads/  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@twodotingdads     See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome back to Two Doting Dads and One Doting Mum slash Dula. I'm Matty J. I'm Ash. And I'm Alice, the modern doula. And this is a podcast all about parenting. It is the good, it is the bad. And the relatable. And Alice, we have to say for legal reasons, not really legal reasons, but kind of legal reasons, not real.

Not real. Fake legal reasons. Yeah. We don't give advice. Ash and I never have, never will. We do sometimes, but if it does come out as advice, it's accidental. But you are more than welcome to give advice. There's a loophole in that legalities that you're allowed to.

I'm allowed to. Guests are immune from those legal ramifications. You can break the law here and you're fine. I'll talk to my lawyer about that. We do like to start with our guests a little journey back in time to when they were a youngster. And Ash, do you think Alice was someone who was well-behaved or was she someone who was quite naughty? She is from Central Coast.

Yes, I'm gonna say class clownish. You picked that up already? Yeah. Yeah, I was like a drama kid. Oh. Yeah, so I was a drama kid and mum and dad always said like, it doesn't matter about your grades, you just try your hardest. So I was like, okay.

I'll be dramatic. When did you get your first taste of drama? Oh, would have been as soon as I kind of started school, maybe year four. I was like a Shakespeare kind of kid. Oh. Hard to believe, I know. Can you remember any of it? Oh, no to believe I know. Can you remember any of it?

Oh, no, nothing, nothing. But I think I did play like Desdemona in something. We went to the Shakespeare festival. Who's Desdemona? Like I can't even remember now. Like Desdemona and is that a fellow? A thespian? A thespian?

I don't know what, just full disclosure, I don't know what any of these were. I just want you to know, you said that this was like a previous life. So it's like, yeah, can't remember now. It's all left my body. Did you ever get in trouble? Probably when I was in primary school. This would have been like year two maybe. And mum and dad sent me to after school care. They owned a cafe at the time. And so they would work on a long hours and I used to have to go to after school care, which I hated.

So I took it upon myself to just get the bus home because I knew where the bus went and like it was a school bus. Just on your own? It was a school bus. You were in what, eight? Probably younger. Yeah, I was young for my year too. Wow. So I just was like, fuck this, I'm not going after school care.

Got on the bus. Took me all the way because we lived at Copacabana, which was like the furthest suburb away. So I was like last kid on the bus with my friend, Maya. Don't even know where she is now, but she helped me. She's on a bus somewhere. Yeah, she's still on that bus. She's still there.

I got off, I went to Maya's house. Her mom was like, hey, like, didn't know you were coming over today, cause you know it would be weird if your kid turned up with like a kid from school. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, no, my mom said at school. So I lied.

Maya's mom called my mom, cause after school care was freaking out. I got in so much trouble. They would have been there. Shit. They were like, yeah, no, my mom said it's cool. So I lied. Mya's mom called my mom because after school care was freaking out. I got in so much trouble. Shit. We're missing one. Those poor teenagers who are running after school care. Those 18 year olds. We lost one.

But I think secretly deep down, mom and dad were like, she's independent. Like she's great. Like, you know? Yeah, like. I like to believe that now. I'm not sure if it's true. I should ask them.

What was the punishment? Do you remember? I don't remember. Like, my dad was always like a, you're grounded for a month. And then the next day I'd be like, can I go to my friend's house? And he was like, get out of here.

It's much easier for you to not be at home. It's kind of like, yeah. Grounding your kids is more punishment to the parents than it is to the child. Oh, I'm never gonna do it. Never gonna do it. Must set them away. Boarding school for you.

Thank you. Yeah, and look at you now. Such a independent woman. Yeah, and look at you now, such a independent woman. Yeah, I can get the bus. Yeah, I've been doing this forever. So yeah, I got in trouble for that. But otherwise, like, my parents were pretty, I had older brothers, so they did a lot of breaking in for me.

Oh, good. So, yeah. Are you the youngest? I am. Of how many? Of three. My brothers are 10 and eight years older than me, so they're in their 40s. They're really old.

Wow. Wow. You're not there yet. You're close. I'm pretty much there. Actually, I'm hanging on to 37 for as long as I can. Yeah. My grandmother's been 29 for like 55 years.

You could do that too. Well. It's all about how you feel. Yes. How do you feel? Sore. Tired. You look great. Tired.

You haven't always been a doula. No. You used to work in media. Yes. So Ash and I were wondering, how does someone who works in media all of a sudden become a doula? Yeah, a bit of a wild career change. Just.

Just a little bit. But I actually have been doing both for a long time. So I kind of was running the double life, a bit like Hannah Montana. I had been in media, working in radio. And then when I fell pregnant and I went through my own first birth experience, that obviously changed everything

as it does for so many people. And I was like, wow, before pregnancy, no idea what a doula was. I didn't even know what a cervix was. So I like was so- Neater. You're speaking to the right crowd. Yeah.

With your first, what was your birth plan? How did that unfold? Yeah, well, the birth plan was like have an amazing, beautiful hypnobirthing in the water, no pain relief. Oh, a water birth. Amazing, yeah. That was the plan. That was the plan, okay. And how did that go? An epidural and just, you know, push this baby out after like 52 hours. So, you know, like, yeah.

Hang on a minute. She's got stamina. Just skip over 52 hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a long one. You poor thing. So before birth, I was like Paula, Abdullah, Jula, like what's a doula? I had no idea. And people had kind of mentioned it. And I thought like, why would I ever need one of those? Like, I'm going to be fine. My body's made to do this.

I was like, people birth all the time. People birth every day. Like, I got this. And then like first contraction, I was like, I don't have this, you know? So that was a bit of a rude shock. But I kind of came out of that and I was like, I get now why people need more support or should,

you know, should have more support if they want it. So I was a bit bored on maternity leave. I was like, what am I going to do with my life now? Like I'm a mom, what am I doing? So I thought I'll just do this Dula course because it sounds cool. And I did the course and I was like, this is amazing. But I also don't feel like I fit the Dula vibe,

because there's a bit of a stereotype that Dulas are really hippie and spiritual and sage-sticking and burning for centers in the woods. What is sage-sticking? Yeah, clearing the space of things. It's great if you're into it, but there was never me. Yep. So I kind of thought maybe this is not. Is there smoke involved? They burn the sage, yeah.

I'm pretty sure you have smoke around someone who's giving birth. Is that right? No, it's not like... It's not like a bonfire. No, it's just a... A sage stick, if you will. Yes. Okay.

Like burning incense. It's like a candle. A couple of candles. For the aura. Thank you. Yeah, so I thought, you know, maybe I don't really fit that vibe. And then I thought I went into pregnancy and birth and I would have loved some support that wasn't super spiritual and about all that. So I thought I was just going to give this a go. But I didn't want to jump into running my own business

without the security of an income. So I went back to work full time in radio as well. With the course, how long is that course? The course I did was, I think it was like seven days total over a couple of months, like a couple of weekends, but you don't need a course to be a doula. It's not a regulated industry, so you don't have to do a course, but I thought I just want to, to like expand my skills

and set and education. And I went back to radio and I was working radio and I said to them like, hey, I'm also a doula now. Like I'm coming back as a mom, but I also have my side business. And they were like, that's cool. Like, so supportive and so willing to work with me. So there were a couple of times I'd be at work and I'd look at my phone

and be like, shit, got to go. And they're like, have fun. Good luck. How do you find your first client? So we had to do three student birth experiences. So I got them through word of mouth. A physio referred me. Another doula referred me for someone. student birth experiences. No, you're doing it on your own. The first birth was actually amazing. It was a first time mom, she was incredible, a water birth in the hospital, zero intervention.

So as a doula who's done this course thinking like, this is how birth exactly should be, this is textbook, seeing my first birth that wasn't my own like that, I was like, it's real. Like it really is a thing. I was on an oxytocin high four days. And a couple of my other colleagues in the course had births that were so like, they were like, thing, I was on an oxytocin high for days.

And a couple of my other colleagues in the course had births that were so, they were like, I saw everything, I saw the cascade of intervention. The what, sorry? The cascade, so like you intervene somewhere along the way and it kind of cascades and it can just like a snowball effect. Everything kind of ends up happening. And they had seen that and I'd seen this beautiful water birth. My time would come for seeing those things too. But yeah, that was my first experience as a doler. Literally straight into the deep end. And you said that you had three experiences, is it? I did, yes. What did they call them again, sorry?

Student births. Student births, okay. And the person who you're supporting, they obviously know you're a student, so she's a first mom and this is your first time. I can imagine maybe the anxiety in the air or was it your job to bring that back down? Bring it back down. Absolutely. And the thing about supporting someone through birth.

And I was guilty of this thinking that you have to have all the answers and you have to know all the evidence and have all the information. And really, it's not about that at all. You know, it's about making sure that that woman and her partner feel in control and feel like they're driving that ship and you're just kind of there to support and guide along the way. So she was amazing.

She had an incredible mindset. She was an athlete as well. So she like had a good performance mindset. So as a doula, I was like, this is dream client goals, you know. After you do those three student births. Yeah. Are you like going hard and trying to recruit your next clients? Yeah, yeah. It's I actually fell pregnant.

So in that student kind of I was doing my student births, I fell pregnant again and I was like, an unplanned pregnancy. But I feel like an idiot saying that when you're an adult, because you're like, I know how pregnancy works, I know how it happens. So like, whoopsie. I had a bit of a break, but I was still active on social media, which was good, because you're always working nine months ahead. Like my clients that I'm signing at the moment are due in January, February, you know?

So you're always working a long way. So I kind of was planning to be back doing births around four months postpartum. So I could kind of, yeah, plan that ahead to get the next client. That's pretty quick. Yeah. Especially with two under two. I know, you're telling me. Congratulations.

Yeah. And so someone right now, maybe know, you're telling me. Congratulations. Yeah. And so someone right now, maybe they haven't had a child just yet, they're thinking about, they're planning to get pregnant. Yep. When is the right time to engage with a doula? I would say like most doulas will offer obligation free connect calls and catch ups and stuff.

So if you really want to take your time finding the one that's right for you, which I do recommend, like meet with a few, you could even do it before you're pregnant just so that you've put the feelers out in the connects to be like, hey, I'm thinking about this and maybe some guidance or some support in your trying to conceive journey.

So it's never too early, but I would say most people will reach out. At the moment, it's never too early. And usually I can kind of make them fit. And so we are now currently 21 weeks. Yes, exciting congrats. Thank you very much. Thank you. You're welcome.

Every time someone congratulates me in front of me, I also take that on. Ash's godfather. Godchild, will be. So if I reach out and I say, Alice, we're having a baby, we're 21 weeks. What happens then? How do you make sure that I'm the right potential client for yourself?

Yeah. Well, I do like connect calls. So FaceTimes where I love the partners to be there too, because I think that's really important to know that partners on board for me. I'm like, a lot of guys don't understand what a doula is and that's so fine. Guilty. But at least I needed dad to be like at a five. Like if there's a scale of zero to 10, I needed dad to be at a five where he's at least like,

whatever you want, babe, I support your choices. That for me, I'm like tick, because I know that we're going to get on. But if a dad's like, that sounds dumb, like why are we paying for that? Like that's stupid. Like that for me, I'm like, ugh. But I do like to connect with the couple

to make sure that we can have a free conversation, a bit of banter, because I have like I have a sense of humor. I want to have a laugh. I don't I want to bring some fun and light to birth because it is such a big time, but it should be a joyous time. So I want to help bring that out, too. So how do you support mum and dad to be not during birth, but initially during that pregnancy phase before you're actually in the room about to give birth.

Yeah, so kind of depends on where they're at. I love to meet couples, like where they are. So if I meet a couple and they've got zero education, they don't understand birth, they don't understand like what the body is doing and what the process looks like, then I kind of know we got to do a bit of education and a bit of like a more teaching than I would usually do,

which I prefer to do more like connect and get to know each other that way. So maybe it's education, but we meet three, sometimes four times in pregnancy, have a group chat going. I love send me some gifts, send me some memes about pregnancy and shit. And when we catch up, I like to do a bit of birth planning and birth prep, and then I like to get physical with my clients. That sounded really weird. Nice.

I like to show them hands-on support techniques. So show them how they can use the different tools. I've brought some props as well. Maybe I can show you later. Yeah, how they can be good support people and practice for the big day. Like positions. Women give birth in all sorts of different positions,

like on all fours can be or on the back. On the back. I think is there more than that? Like in squats, side saddle. Sometimes I don't know. If someone says like, hey, I got no idea. When you ask me what my birthing plan is, I don't even know what's available.

What are the kind of main options like a menu that I can choose from? Oh gosh. Menu. That's a big question. It would really depend on what your birth philosophy is. So some people will see birth as a really scary medical event that is going to need a lot of support and help, I suppose, in managing that situation.

And they're gonna feel safest having either an obstetrician or a private midwife maybe. And they're on one side. And then there's the other side that thinks it's a really natural event that rarely needs medical interference. So depending on where you're kind of on this spectrum, birth is going to look different for you. But you've got lots of options depending on where you choose to have your baby. So some people will choose to have their baby in a public hospital under like midwife care. Those public hospitals might have baths, so water birth.

Some people will want to have epidurals and want to have pain relief and they'll want to be, you know, on the bed and not feel the pain of labor. Some people want to have their baby at home with private midwife. Some people want to have an obstetrician, an elective caesarian. Like, there's so many choices that exist and I don't think people realize exactly what those choices are. So part of my work is working with a couple to see where they are on that spectrum, what they want for birth, what they think could be possible for them and then helping them navigate the system to try and get their goals. I've always been inquisitive about the water births. Not for me! Has Laura had a water birth?

I remember we went, this is when Marley was still in Laura's tummy, we went into the hospital and this is when we were kind of going through the different options. Like I had no idea, I thought it was just like you give birth, you lay on a bed, baby comes out. That's what we see in the movies right? Exactly. And I remember them, there was like a big bathtub, it was a big one, it was like a half spa, half bath tub. Do you want me to wash? Is that a Jacuzzi? Yeah. Is it like getting in the sauna, we have a bath first and then you do it. And then, and that's when I found out about water baths.

And I don't like blood. So the idea of being like in the water with Laura. You didn't have to be in there with her. Not fair. I just, I just. Scooch over. Yeah. Where are the jets?

It's cold in here. Oh, that's actually, It's cold in here. That's actually, that's a good one. Is the water cold or is it warm? No, it's warm. It's got to be warm otherwise babies get a bit freaked out. It's like Joe Rogan's in there having an ice bath. Set it to five degrees. Just breathe, just breathe. Three minutes.

And then how do you differ? You mentioned midwife before. A lot of people, even I put the call out on social media, the main question that I got most commonly asked was what is the difference between a midwife and a doula? Yeah, it's a good question. So a midwife is someone who is clinically trained and looks after the clinical care of yourself and the baby. So they're really concerned to make sure

that you're healthy, you're well, and medically speaking, you guys are all good and happy. A doula is not medically trained so we should never ever be performing any medical tasks or like checking bellies or doing cervical exams or anything like that. So even though we can be hands-on with support and pressure and acupressure and massage, we're not doing anything medical at all. So really just providing emotional, physical, informational and advocating support. Your midwife is clinically responsible for you and the baby as well.

With a midwife, you're saying everything's very medical. It's what they do day in, day out. You're more in there to support them. I suppose, yeah, like bringing the anxiety down and trying to manage the pain, you're more in there to support them. I suppose, yeah, like bringing the anxiety down and trying to manage the pain but without having to do the medical side of it. Yeah, and I think a lot of Midwives would love to be doing that side as well, but they're in a system that, you know, they've got, I don't want to downplay it, but lots of paperwork and reporting and lots of things and check boxes that they have to do, that means that they're not really

a lot of the time able to give you that one on one support. And that was a shock for me when I went into labor with Billy, I thought my midwife was gonna be like with me the whole time and doing my hip squeezes and helping me out and giving me different positions. I just wanna say there's a midwife plan though. So you have like, you have a midwife. Just a midwife.

Yeah, midwife, yeah, from start, like you get assigned a midwife and that will- All the way from the start? Yeah, yeah. So Laura was in the midwifery program. Gotcha. So if there aren't any midwives listening and going, well, hang on a sec, we are there.

We don't just come in at birth. You get assigned your midwife. And then all your checkups are with that midwife from like until your full term. There's so many different things. This is the gold standard. So everyone should have that. But that midwifery group practice program is really hard to get into and

often fills up quite quickly. So if you're lucky enough to get in that program, like you're kicking goals, like good on you, like you've got this girl. But I'll backtrack on that midwives and I apologize. And you know what? We need both. Like I think we really, and what works really well is when midwives and doulas and even obstetricians work

on the same team together, we're all there for the same reason. And that's to make sure that this family has a great birth experience. So yeah, we should all be working together collaboratively. If there is someone who is thinking right now, I do wanna engage with a doula, what would you recommend are the best questions to ask?

So I would ask them, you know, what their birth philosophy is like. Like, what do they think about pain relief? What do they think about home birth? What do they think about private obstetricians? And usually you'll be able to get a sense of what kind of doula this person is. I would always want to ask them practical questions

like what's your backup? You know, like what happens if you can't make my birth? Who would stand in or refunds and that kind of stuff? always want to ask them practical questions like, what's your backup? How many clients do they take on a month just so that you can understand where you fit in their calendar and scheme? And then ask them what experience they have, what's their skill set? Some duelers are really skilled in massage, others are like acupressure geniuses, you know, slam poetry. Yeah, Shakespearean, you know, sonnets, you know, drama, skill set.

Stand up comedians, you just gotta ask them. Just gotta ask them, you never know what you might get. You never know. You know, so yeah, ask them what their skill set is and how they like to support. Is there ever a scenario where you go into the delivery suite, you're then with your client, the midwife comes in and there's any tension at all between yourself and the midwife

where the midwife is like, I think we should do this. And you go, well, I think this could be an option. Honestly, like it's happened maybe once or twice. It's really rare. Did you guys punch on? Yeah, in the hallway. Fight club? Fight club? In the hallway.

Fight club? I would watch that. Yes, send her downstairs to ED. No, very rarely does it happen. And usually it's, you know, I would say as a dual, my style of advocating is not to really speak for the woman if she's able to do it herself. So often I'll refer to things like,

oh, that's written on the birth plan, or we had discussed this, what do you think? And just trying to open up more of a conversation around it as opposed to like, she doesn't want this, she doesn't want that. So it rarely happens, occasionally, of course, because we've got different agendas, I guess. Midwives are working within a system,

I'm supporting a client who has their own wishes, so it's a bit of a dance, you know? And if you're going to the same hospitals, you would build rapport with these guys anyway, right? It's not like you're just turning up on day one, like you're at the mash hospital. Yeah, where are we going here? And then they're like, yeah!

DB away through. Make it more Hollywood. I don't remember I did drama in primary school. Exit stage left. Is there ever a scenario where, like, one thing that stands out for me as advice that I've heard other mums give each other is that if you want to have an epidural, you got to ask for it early. You don't want to have a scenario where you're like, I like the epidural please.

And they go, actually you're too far gone. It's too late. Because I know you mentioned that you don't get involved in like involved in the medical side of things. Is there ever a case where you say to your client like if you want your epidural, you should request it now? I don't think I've ever said that. I try not to actually offer any pain relief.

Like a lot of the people that I'm working with don't want that either. Like they want to have a more natural physiological experience. Of course, when I hear a client that we've had a discussion about epidurals, when I hear them say like, I want an epidural, I'm like, great, like she wants an epidural and we kind of make it happen. I wouldn't ever offer it because I think that's kind of almost a sign that you think that they can't do it or they're not handling it. Yeah.

So I kind of like try not to ever offer pain relief because I believe that they can do it without it until they ask for it themselves. Yeah. Cause you could imagine being in that vulnerable state and you're going, I think you should. Yeah. Your emotions are probably so heightened right there that, yeah, it could be a bit traumatic, I suppose. And I had a midwife do that to me in my first birth,

and this is the one that I want to have the beautiful water birth. And when I was like, oh, this is really hard. She was like, have some gas. And I was like, I love gas. Like send me off. Like, you know, that's the only reason I go to the dentist is like, get the gas. So when she said that, I was like, oh, I feel like a bit of a drug addict. Like, hook me up.

And that just started like that menu of pain relief for me. So yeah, I try not to try not to offer it. The gas is a gateway. Gateway gas. I'm not. It gas is a gateway. Gateway gas. I've always said that. I'm not. It was so good too. I'm understanding more the role of a doula and tell me if this is way off here,

but it kind of feels like you're almost like a supportive parent. Someone that's been there before. Yeah. Is that, am I kind of getting on the right track? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Can you give me examples of where, when you're at birth in the delivery suite,

in what ways do you support your patient? So lots of different ways. One is just being close. I know it sounds really woo-woo, but we call it holding space. So it's really just being kind of a bodyguard of the area to make sure that that kind of bubble doesn't get popped, whether it's like unwanted interruptions and that kind of thing and unwanted questions. It's always nice to have a handhold.

Like people often be like, oh, dealers are just hand holders. I'm like, well, you've never had your hand held really good because it's so nice to have your hand held and just to like know that someone is there and that has been through it and that knows that you can do it. And then there's all the physical side of things. So the hip squeezes, the acupressure, the positions, the helping babies turn positions when maybe they might be posterior and trying to encourage them to turn around, encouraging different forms of pain relief. So we've got showers, we've got birth balls, birth combs, tens machines. There's so many ways you can support.

And then the other one would just be like advocating. So, you know, if it's buying them more time. And then once baby's delivered, Yes. Are you like, well, my work here is done. Yeah, I gotta get home for bedtime. No, I usually stay like up to maybe two hours after the baby's born.

Definitely like love to step back and let mom and dad have their moment, meeting their baby and try and take some photos and videos and stuff for them. And then I kind of will often go out and make mom like a nice cup of like chicken soup or broth or like, you know, there's, is it nurture organics?

They've got these powders, they're really good. And I make them broth and come back and make sure that they're doing well having their skin to skin and that sometimes I can help that they're doing well, having their skin to skin, and that sometimes I can help Bob latch if they want to breastfeed, and make sure that mom's got everything that she needs for either that night or to go home.

Sometimes I'm helping her have a shower and then making sure she's all tucked up and happy and safe and well. Hospital can be a pretty isolating place, depending on, it's so different every day, right? Like, I remember just being like people in and out, in and out, in and out, in and out. And it must be really comforting for mums to be the take up a doula, to have someone there all the time. If they want them there all the time to help them with those things that they're and not feel isolated.

Yeah. Do you get that as a response from people? Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes if mums have an unexpected, like stay in hospital, they're staying a few days that they didn't expect to. Sometimes I'll bring supplies from home or make sure that they've got some food, bring them food to the hospital so that they're not eating a cheese sandwich

and a dry Weebix, you know? So yeah, it's nice to have a friendly face when you're in there for sure. And then do you then still stay in contact with them when they've returned home if they have had a hospital stay? Yeah, absolutely. So a lot of my packages have, you know, six weeks postpartum care in them as well. So I'll come over postpartum, make mum food and make sure she's well and sitting down because they always bloody get up and go, when I come around, I want you in bed, I want you hair in a mum bum,

I want you covered in breast milk, like I want you just looking like shit basically. I come around, they always look amazing and I'm like, how dare you? You know, like, yeah, so they never listen to me. In those post visits, my wife suffered from postpartum depression pretty badly. Do you lend an ear for those people?

Yeah, absolutely. And just being someone that they can talk to without judgment, you know, and not try and be that toxic positivity that a lot of people get in the newborn stage. Like, isn't it amazing? And yeah, it is, but it's also can be really hard sometimes. It is, yeah.

And just on that as well, like knowing where the red flags are if someone can't recognise it in themselves and being able to then refer on if I think that it's beyond my scope as a doula and I think that they might need more support and you know more clinical care or clinical supervision so that you can get onto it early. Real mother hen vibe. You're there for the whole process and then after the process for you to go in six weeks later and then also lend an ear. And that must be really powerful for a lot of women.

Yeah, and it's nice to be around. They often call being a doula like mothering the mother. So it's nice, because you've got this baby that is sucking everything out of you. You're recovering from birth, and now you're feeding the baby. You're not getting any sleep. And then to have someone come over

and make sure that you're okay, so that you can do that again tomorrow is like just fills your cup back up. For sure. When you look at all the births that you've been involved in, when you look at the dads, what advice can you give? And this may be not just for us, but for any dads to be that are listening and they're thinking, how can I help not only during pregnancy, but during birth and postpartum? What's the best advice you

can give? The best advice is in pregnancy, please listen to the podcast that she's sending you. You know, like, please. And that'd be too doting down. Yeah, like, you've got to be on the same educational journey that she's on, because a lot of the time in pregnancy, we go through this, you know, I've got to learn all this stuff, I've got to prep for birth and then dads kind of just continue on their life because it's not happening to their body, right? So it's hard to sometimes

connect with that, especially if it's your first. So listen to the podcast, go to the course, try to stay awake. Ash. I was awake the whole time. Try not to stream sports while you're there. Okay. Whoops. I'm just so out of you now. I did all the bad things. And you turn out alright. I'm alright, yeah. I've got a whole podcast on parenting now so joke's on you. So yeah, go on the educational journey with her because when she's in birth and when she's in labor land, she's actually not in that brain anymore so you kind of have to be her brain for her. In birth, whatever she says goes.

Right? So like if she says, you know, it's time to go to the hospital or I want to do this or I need this, I want this. You kind of got to be like, yes, I believe in you, I believe you can and I'm listening to what you say, you know, because instinct is so powerful in birth. So we need to like really tune into what she's saying

because a lot of the time like in labor, you can't really form full sentences. It's hard to get your words out. So when she does say something, we need to listen. Because I feel quite redundant in the birthing suite. Obviously, like if Laura asked for anything, then I am like straight on, straight on to it. Is there anything unprompted or proactive that a partner should be aware of in the birthing suite? Yep, absolutely. So the first thing I would say is always be physically close to her. So if she's going to the toilet, you're going to the toilet with her. If she wants to get in the shower, you're holding the shower jets with her. If she's getting in the bath, you're sitting

by the bath, always being really physically close because you are the most important person to her in that room. You know, even if you have a doula, nothing will replace the love that you guys have for each other. And love is what, it sounds like it's really beautiful. Love is what we need to make contractions happen. That oxytocin hormone is what is going to power labor. So she needs you really close. So even if you don't know what to say, just being there and even holding her hand is enough. If she's ever saying things like, I can't do it anymore, I'm so tired,

rather than saying like, yeah, let's get you an epidural, baby, look tired. We really wanna say like, turn it into an affirmation of like, I know you can do this, you've prepared for this, you're so strong. And like hearing that from your partner is like, like gives all of those like oxytocin vibes.

So encouragement, and then if she's really saying she can't doytocin vibes. So encouragement. And then if she's really saying she can't do it anymore, distraction. So let's switch it up. So even if you were to make like a triangle in the birth suite of like, you know, the bed up on its highest level so that she can lean up against it,

the shower and the bath, if you just move between those three stations in the hospital and just keep distracting her, you'll buy yourself so much time. I have a flashback to when I got really hungry. And I had to go down to the cafe and get a sandwich. Oh my god. So not physically close.

Yeah. And on that note, is there anything that dads shouldn't do? Does anything stick out that you've seen or heard of where you're like, that's like, that's a no brainer, but don't do it. Pass out. Oh, the first thing that comes to me. Yeah, I've heard your birth story. Thank you. So I know that. The first thing that like came to mind was if you drive a big truck, like check that it goes in the car park of the hospital, please. Please, like do a drive-by. In the birth suite I would say like is there anything that you can't do is like please don't be on your phone even if you think you're hiding it. Did you say before you were fucking streaming the surfing. That was in the birth

class. It's different. He got it out of his system. Manly did play the day out. Yeah no, I'm just kidding. Yeah, like even when you're hiding it, you know like at school when you think that like the teacher can't see you on your phone and they say so can. News flash, they can't. Yeah. Try not to call your mum, you know, while birth is happening.

Yeah, let's wait for the placenta to be born before you do that. Yeah, for sure. And then postpartum, I think that's a time where a lot of partners feel a bit redundant because Bubba's so attached to mum. What's your advice on how they can be a standout individual? Oh, standout individual, I would say if this is your first baby, please be with her in the night time. So night time feeds is a real like whack to the system.

Your hormones are going crazy. So even if you feel like you can't do much, even just being with her and sitting up with her in bed and like being a support, like, what do you need me to grab? Changing the nappy after the feed and being there for those night feeds can help make her feel less alone. And then if you could encourage her

and be supportive of her really resting, and I mean really resting, like treat her like a queen in those two weeks, even if you could, like ideally six, but like it's unrealistic for a lot of people to be doing that. So if you could give it two weeks of just like being a doting dad and a doting husband, that would be amazing. You're making sure that she's staying in bed, she's staying warm, she's fed, she's showered and has, yeah, and hydrated.

Well done. And he's encouraged to be in bed with the baby skin to skin. If you have other kids really doing what you can to take those other kids away so that she has morning time with the newborn, because she's probably gonna feel like her heart is split in, for Laura's case, three. Yeah, I think that was one of the biggest regrets

that we have is once Lola was born, coming home as quickly as we could and then having it so hard because Marley was 18 months and like they don't understand and this time around Laura's like, I will stay in that hospital bed for as long as I bloody can. It's a holiday with a newborn. And it's a bit divide and conquer in those early days if you've got other kids. So it can kind of feel like you're with your newborn, your partner's a bit divide and conquer in those early days if you've got other kids. So it can kind of feel like, you know, you've, yeah, you're with your newborn,

your partner's with the other kid. So just making time to connect with her as well. I remember some advice I got given was for those nighttime feeds is just don't say anything to her. Just be there. Just do it. Just be there and do it. If she says, can you get me some water? Don't even say yes, just go and do it.

Because yes could come out as like an attitude. You're both tired. Yes, ooh, I'm gonna get you. I remember as a new dad first time, I put so much pressure on myself to be up all the time that it made us both tired the whole time. And two tired people don't equal a fully rested person. But I always felt like the pressure to do so.

But then I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna do it, but I'm just not gonna say anything. So then she can look across the dark room and I'm there, but only if she needs me to do something. And then sometimes I'd fall asleep. Sorry, can't help it, it's dark in here. A sleeper would come flying across the room. Wake up.

And then you've obviously been through many births. Do you know the exact number of how many you've been involved in? I did count it for you. We're up to 34 now. Oh, that's cool. How are you going to celebrate the 50th? Oh, a drink. Are there any births that stand out for you as being the most memorable?

Oh, yes. It was actually a good friend of mine that I met through my mother's group. I'm now fully identified her as well. She says, will you be my doula for our second? And I thought this is this is incredible. Like I'd love to. So it happened around Christmas time. And I was working in radio at the time. So we had this like big Christmas carols event. And as an on call doula and like working big events, you're kind of like, it's a little bit stressful. So I'm like wearing my friggin' glitter ass Christmas outfit, fuck.

And I'm thinking, I think she might have been like 39 weeks or something. And we're messaging in this group chat of this mother's group and Abby says, I'm going to go for a walk, I'm going to walk this baby out. And I'm like, how can you not? Because I'm at this event. And one of our other friends in Mother's Group sends her an excerpt of like Fifty Shades of Grey. And is like, this will get the juices going. And I'm like, how dare you?

Like, how dare you? Like the audio of it. Like a screenshot of the Kindle book or something. Like a passage of my giant pulsating member. Oh my god. Yeah, like real smart. And I'm like, oh God, like. Does that work? Well, yeah.

No? You know? Try it out, let us know in the comments. Will you stop the oxytocin? That's it, right? I'm thinking, haha, anyway, she's going for a walk. Then I get like, maybe an hour later, I get this message from her husband saying,

hey, like she's having some like contractions, I think we might be on. And I'm like, damn, 50 shades. Damn it. Then in my head, I'm like, I'm going to use this when my next mom gets to 42 weeks. You know? Smart.

Save that screenshot. Smart folder. It's for work, babe. I swear. So I'm like, shit, I better go. So I go out to work and I'm like, hey, I think a baby's coming. I've got to run. They're like, just go. Do what you out to work and I'm like, Hey, like I think a baby's coming. Like I gotta run.

They're like, just go do what you need to do. Totally got out of the pack out, packed out for the event. Perfect. Nice. I run home, luckily they don't live far from me. Like I'm speeding, like I got out of the car park, I'm speeding home. I get a message saying her waters have just broken, like baby's coming. And I'm like, fuck. So I grab my bag, hey Phil, hey girls, like mommy's got to go like help the babies. I run out the door and I go into the house. The husband's mother is sitting on the couch downstairs and she's like, hello Alice.

And I was like, hi. Like they're upstairs, go into the bedroom. The husband's mother is sitting on the couch downstairs and she's like, hello, Alice. And I was like, wow, you're doing so amazing. And try and just bring the pressure down a bit, bring the anxiety down. And I'm thinking, okay, okay, like her waters have broken, all the signs are pointing to like this baby's coming soon. And she says like, I think we need to go to the hospital. I was like, okay, Harry, like, you know, listen to those words. Harry, like, let's get the car going. Like, we need to go.

And Harry's like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. You do that weed shuffle. You just haven't got to quite do it yourself. Which ways are. Then I hear like this real like bare down she says, we're not going to make it. And I was like, OK, Harry, we're not going to make it. Can you call an ambulance? So Harry's like, yep, cool.

So we get on the phone to ambulance. And I'm like, you're going to be OK. Let's sit on the toilet because I know that that's like can relax the pelvic floor. And she's doing so well breathing this baby. And the ambulance is on the phone. I said, can we pop it on loudspeaker? And these ambulance paramedics are following this script, right? They don't really know, they don't not know birth, but they're following this script that they have to do.

And so it's like put her on her back. Can you see the baby's head? And so poor Harry's going, hey, babe, can you get on your back? And she's like, no. And I'm like, no, we're not getting on the back. The baby's coming, no. And I'm like, no, we're not getting on the back. Like the baby's coming. And it doesn't just, for anyone listening, if this happens, it doesn't change the fact that they're sending an ambulance. It's just like the triage on the phone. And so she's got, the lady's going like, can you see your head? And poor Harry's like trying to like

get back there and like see if he can see his head. And I'm like, Harry, like trying to swat away his hands. Like you can't do a vaginal exam on her, you know, like this baby's starting to crown. So the ambulance turns up, but we've got a hands. Like you can't do a vaginal exam on her, you know, like this baby's starting to crown. So the ambulance turns up, but we've got a head, like this head is coming. So I'm filming, we're in the bathroom,

like on the tiles on the floor, get some towels going. Harry's sort of in front. I'm like, you can hang up now on the ambulance. Paramedics are waiting outside. And a couple of pushes later, like Harry's picked up his baby and like looking at this baby and I said put it on mum's chest and so he passed it to Abby and Abby's holding this baby and she's like oh my gosh, like I just had this baby at home.

Like I've got shivers telling it now, like so incredible. I've got it all on film and it was just amazing and these paramedics are outside and I was like do you guys want to come in? They're like oh no, you guys have got outside and I was like, do you guys want to come in? They're like, oh no, you guys have got this. And I'm like, what? Turns out when the paramedics arrived, Harry's mom said, oh yeah, they're upstairs with the midwife. So these paramedics were like, oh, we're sweet here.

So like I said, I'm like, I'm not a midwife. Like I'm a doula. Like I'm not insured for this, you know? So they came in and yeah, she was perfect, happy. They had a little girl. They already had a boy. So this was a very exciting moment. for this you know so they came in and yeah she was she was perfect happy they had a little girl they already had a boy so this was a very exciting moment and wow it sounds great but I would not want that to happen to us. Well I call Harry the mid man now because he did such a good job so delivered his baby on the

bathroom floor of their freshly renovated bathroom so sorry about that like so they go off to hospital I'm like saying to Harry's mom, I'm like, can you start like cleaning the tiles? Like I don't want them to stain. So yeah. You've mentioned that you do have some toys with you. Props Matthew. We're not gonna do it on the podcast,

but we have a tense machine. So we're gonna experience close to what Labour may feel like. Both of us or me or you? We'll figure it out. We can do half half at the same time, see who can handle more. Yeah, there we go.

I like that idea. I like the competition. So we're not gonna do it on the podcast episode, but if you do wanna watch this, it'll be on our socials. Alice, thank you so much for joining us today. We are gonna now get into the tense machine. Yes. So Ash, prepare yourself.

I'm assuming it's going to be intense. So there he is. There he is. There he is. Nice. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Thanks so much for having me. Thank you for coming. We really appreciate you giving us all the information about Doola's because I had no idea really what a Doola is. So thank you. You're welcome. Thanks for having me. Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country music. Thanks for having me.