Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash - #185 How do you turn a boy into a man?

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

It's a deep one today and it's a question the boys aren't taking lightly. In fact Ash reveals he's back with his psychologist to talk through his concerns over how he's parenting Oscar and his big feelings. While Matty reveals the kids aren't the only ones struggling to regulate their emotions after he had a run in with another driver. We get an update on Marlie's annual dance concert and the surprising "other" show that is held at the hall. And with the festive season approaching faster than a kid at a candy shop the boys share listeners' hilarious Christmas fails including a dog poo disaster that's got to be one for the record books. ‘Tis the season to let loose, indulge and dive into the holidays, stomach first. ALDI’s great quality range at affordable prices means you can stretch your pants without stretching your budget. Go on, it’s Christmas. See the full range at aldi.com.au BUY OUR SMELLY T SHIRTS HERE  https://www.twodotingdads.com/category/all-products Buy our book, which is now available in-store! https://www.penguin.com.au/books/two-doting-dads-9781761346552  If you need a shoulder to cry on:  Two Doting Dads Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/639833491568735/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheTwoDotingDads  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twodotingdads/  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@twodotingdads  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What are you got for me? You didn't want to mention anything about my hair? Yeah, I know. Yeah, well, fuck. What's it? I don't know. You're a bit on edge because there's a lot happening and I'm like, oh, I don't want to get it wrong. Does it?

Because you'll come at me like a diva. You know, I try to look my best in front of you. I know that. And what do I get? I get fucking nothing. You didn't get anything. Why do I bother? Because I didn't want to be like, oh, a new hair cut and you take it the wrong way.

You've done that before. And I do I have to dig out some sort of memory. to be like, oh, what's, I got a haircut? You're like, what's wrong with it? No. What's wrong with her? That is a complete lie. He's not.

You were lying right now. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to a listener. Welcome back to two-dating dads. My name is Maddie J. I'm Ash. This is a podcast all about parenting. It is the good, it is the bad.

And the relatable, you've got a hair out of place. Oh, for God's sake. See? As soon as I mention it. No, there is a difference between saying, that's a nice haircut. And you have a hair out of place. Yeah, because you're vigorous. I'm just letting help and you know, so that for the camera, just a little tough back.

So you're happily attack the hair. I'm not attacking. See, this is what I mean. You misunderstand me trying to be helpful with being attacked. Goodness me. It looks good. Shut up. So what, um, why did you, see?

I just said it. Well, you've sent me off now. Okay. Give me a look at the back. Very, very high and tight, as they say. Anyway. Housekeeping. You look.

What do you got? Beautiful message from two of our listeners. Kiarra and Tom, who are driving around Australia with their baby daughter, Millie. Love Millie for a little girl's name. Thank you. Thank you. You're just taking credit for it? Yeah.

Okay, cool. I like it. We've just over five months into our lap around Australia, nearly 24,000 kilometres down. My God. What's that? What's like, what's city to Melbourne? It'd be like 900 kilometres, maybe? 24,000.

Let's round up to 1,000 for that one. So it's like going back and forth 12 times. Wow. Do you reckon that, is that like around Australia twice? What are they doing? They're lapping Australia? We're in a fourth lap of Australia. Yeah, but it would be like the scenic route, right?

well if you're going around Australia I think there's only one way to go I wonder if they run into my friends Josh and Siang because they're going around Australia as well do you do it clockwise do it anti-clockwise I think it's clockwise

I think you have to you have to yeah otherwise you'll hit people if you get out of the way true you'd be on the wrong side of the road yeah doesn't make any sense I finally caught up

on all episodes all 182 episodes I think we used to sound pretty shit back in the day like can people notice a difference Did we get better or we'd be like the same the whole way through? I think we've got more confused with where we're at during an episode. When we first started, we were so like, the relationship was so new.

Good. I mean, anyway, let me finish this. Then we can talk about that. We've been absolutely addicted during every nap time drive, doing it with our 11 month old. She was only six months when we started. Your chats have kept us laughing and feeling less alone out in the middle of nowhere away from our friends and family. We just really felt the need to say Thanks for keeping us company on the road

You are welcome Wow That's lovely That is also That better be in the Apple podcast reviews Just copy paste Boom, darned But a lovely touch

Very It's nice to get a message like that It feels good Ash you know we love A gender reveal Yeah I do Like absolutely love it It's my biggest regret in life

Is not doing like more of a gender reveal type activity. Yeah, I feel like there can be some nice little simple ones and then there's... The fireworks. I want planes as they like spray the crops, but it's spraying blue on everyone. It's anyway. Yeah, I want something similar, yeah. But there is a gender reveal that I've seen online.

Okay. And it's just, it's beautiful. Okay. If I can just show you for one second. I would love to see it. I'm going to show you the image of the gender reveal and I want you to see if you can pick what's a little bit unique about this one great use of words and you spot the problem well is it a problem i don't know maybe it's not it's two women and a man there's three people in the

photo and they've done the it's a very traditional gender reveal where they've got the confetti the nice touch that yeah nice okay well look what i'm seeing is that there's two people that are pregnant so is it a thruple yes you're right it is a thruple but the thruple is between a mother a daughter and a man who is not the dad this this man has come into the to the relationship at a later date and he has managed to get the mom and their daughter pregnant okay how does that even come about and they look happy they look very happy are we just as a human race at the point now we were like, ah,

fuck it. Because 20 years ago, that'd be on Jerry Springer's shit. I think, yeah, it would be, I think maybe now, maybe we're the problem

for seeing that as being something that is not right. Too taboo, you'd say. Yeah, I mean, also,

is that, is it real? Because a mum's quite old. The mum looks, she's quite, to be able to have a baby at that age. Not to,

I don't know how old. I thought she was quite, look quite young. But like... My... The confusing part about that is... So wait, what does it make... What does the mum's baby and the daughter's...

What relation of the two babies? And then how do you have that conversation when they're out and grown up? Because your brother or sister is then your auntie. Are they setting these kids up for trauma? I mean, when you're thinking about naming a child and you're like, oh, do I want to call it like, you know, Rachel, Bachel, you know, like, what words were I'm like, I couldn't think of anything. I couldn't think of anything that when you're like, I don't want to give them anything that puts a target on their back.

Yeah. Whereas these two have like gotten the target enlarged it, tattooed it on the back. I mean, like, there you go, good luck. And put it on social media. Yeah, good luck on fucking high school. Oh my God, it's a mess, isn't it? And that's the thing. No, no, it's not a mess.

It's beautiful, Ash. It's beautiful to them. It can be messy, though. To share a pregnancy with your mother. Beautiful thing. And who are we to judge if they're consenting adults? Yeah, I don't know. I'm confused of what they are going to be to each other.

It's beautiful. Okay, let's show it. It's beautiful. I think it's a bit weird. I'm just going to, I'm just going to say it. Are we endorsing this? Wouldn't get that far. No, I wouldn't say.

And as long as they're happy, they're not hurting anyone. It's like, we're happy. Me, knock it up April and then just be like, you're next to her mom. I'm like... You have talked quite highly of her mother. She's a beautiful woman. I know she's interested. You're thinking about it.

I definitely not. Look, it's a bit weird for me. It's all a bit weird for me. I think I'm not an overly traditional guy. That seems a little bit obscure. Didn't pick you as being such a prude. I'm ash. I'm open-minded sometimes.

I'm surprised you haven't asked any questions. But Marley finally had her end of year dance recital. The dance recital that stopped the nation. You know, you don't ask about my hair cut, you don't ask about the dance recitals, you talk about the relationship being good back in the day. All I'm saying is that you're not putting in much effort. Okay, I'm noted. Just, how did she go?

Very good. Okay, give me a rundown of the day. I was, it was a very stressful morning. Very stressful morning because we had to get to the hall. Look the hall, it was like an RSL. It was a morning event. Morning event, so we had to get there for 9.15. What was the weather like?

Beautiful weather. Okay, good. Great weather. But it's just, as things do in the mornings when you're dealing with three kids and one of them as a newborn, just everything moves a bit slower. Also, Marley, I now know, I'm putting it down to nerves, but Marley was like, I don't want to do it. She's like, I don't even like dance. And I was like, that's really weird. You do like dance.

She's like, no, I hate it. I don't want to do this. I can now realize that it was just, she was really nervous. Yeah, it's like, Oscar, like, he'll be like, oh, I've got a sort of tummy. I was like, are you nervous, mate? And like... Yeah. You forget that they got nervous too.

But I also think she's such a confident kid that I'm like, oh, she'll do anything. Yeah. But it was at this RISL, within the RISL is a theatre. It's about five to six hundred people. I've heard... Wow. I've heard the theatre is the home of the Australian Magic Mike. It's a very well-known venue.

Seems inappropriate. Also the home to the Tiny Tots dance recital 2025. I love all the polls in here. Yeah. Don't touch anything. Yeah, it's like, this one's slippery. Mine's sticky. Ew.

What's all this glitter? But I always thought, leading up to the concert, I was like, why the fuck are we doing it at a big old venue? We can just do it at the school hall, or we can just do it in the room, just put the parents down on one side to watch the concert. I was like, that's enough. We're talking about three, five, and six-year-olds.

We're over-complicating this. Yeah, totally. And there was also, there was costumes. There was very particular. instructions on how to come arrive with your have had to have a high ponytail had to have you sure you said to me that this jiu jitsu thing's like a cult are you sure this is not a cult this is you've got rules yeah dance is a cult i think it is and i'm into it but i um we got there we're a little bit late a little bit late like you know couldn't big surprise

oh man there's a theme here couldn't get a park couldn't get a park and then And I was like, Laura, I'm going to leave you with Lola and the newborn. I'm going to run Marley in because we're running late. And Laura's like, well, why don't I run her in? I was like, because you don't know the RISL. It's a big venue. You'll get lost. So we're having the argument in the car as like another parent walks past.

And we're like, oh, hey, Susan. Don't mind us. Just follow Susan. Just follow Susan in. But we got there. And also, I didn't realize parents have brought bouquets of flowers. Is it a wedding? What is going on here?

Yeah, people were like. Oh, you didn't, where's your bouquet of flowers? Just to throw on the stage afterwards. Would you present? Not to throw. Take this. Throw a pair of your underpants on there like they did with Tom Jones back in the day. So we didn't do that.

And then Laura was like, go get a bouquet of flowers. And I'm like, where am I going to get a bouquet of flowers from on Anzac Parade in Sydney? Woolies. There was no willies around. So I didn't have the bouquet. But Marley was, she was pretty nervous. Pretty nervous. And I did before Molly went on stage.

And by the way, we're out of housekeeping. I yelled at the emce I heckled the MC And we're back in housekeeping I heckled the MC because It was a good MC I'll give him that He said

You know Everyone makes some noise We're here for the dance recital And he goes I just want to give a special shout out To the mums Who have been up this morning stressing out over the high ponytail

And I said What about the dabs? Smart And people are like, Shut the fuck up Yeah, everyone was like, uh. Relax, bro. Get him out of here.

No flowers, heckling the emcee. That's enough, mate. You're out. But it was 22 performances in total that we had to sit through. Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 22 performances. Yeah, because you had acro, you had the conga, you had like, yeah. How many did Marley do?

One, the second last one. Oh, that's totally. torture. I know. And some of them were, well, quite cute. There were some with the kids, the three-year-olds, the curtain opens,

and they're all just like, oh! Yeah, they're the ones I want to watch because it's like, there's chaos. And the dance teacher came out at one point to the three-year-olds

and was like trying to, like, trying to get them to, yeah, like they were on a straight line and they kept like ants, like scattering. And the dance teachers

are coming on trying to put them back on their straight line. Oh, like, oh, like. That's, that entertainment. It was good gear. That's good gear. I think, like, at that age, it's, it's so funny, like, them just bumbling and through it. And, like, these kids are like, and then it's like, get on stage and look confused.

And then half of them would walk off stage. It was a set of stairs at the front. Half of them would kind of like, kids were. It was chaos. If you spot your parent, you're like, oh, the, mum. Yeah, it was like, when Oscar was doing the school as Emily, all he did was stare at the seat that he was sitting in. And I could tell it was going through his brain He was like, I can't wait to see it back in you

But were there any like Really like good three-year-olds Or they all just like Once one goes There was a couple You'd like see one little stand out And you'd go oh gosh she's like That girl's quite good

You know To be fair They're three-year-olds Any bit of movement A lot of them just stood there Still I like it Scared like petrified

I would want to watch those ones As all the parents are there going woohoo with the audience it's a lot you're on stage in front of like 500 parents and they're all like wooing and cheering why it's a lot

but Marley was great performance was really good do you remember what like song or what yeah I can play the song oh yeah please oh yeah yeah

let me see that fun that's a great song that is a good song great song and the hair the hair I was very worried about the hair I used about half a tin of hair spray

Because the hard thing was with the hair rash Trying to get the fringe She's got a fringe Should I get the fringe back I said do you want the fringe out Fringe in And she's want the fringe up And so to get the fringe

Luckily it was a high ponytail So I could get the fringe in With the rest of the hair And I was like brushing so hard It was like I was getting sucked back I'm not good with the hair I'm really not It's like a

It's like a painting But when I do the hair and go out in public and someone's like, oh, and it's really bad. Because it's terrible. They're like, oh, see, dad's done the hair. I always throw up on the bus. I said, it was mum. She's bald, actually.

How does that make you feel? My goal in life is to be able to do a plat. Yeah? That's my goal. Next year. Dream high. But then after the performance, the show was over. They had the big finale, all the kids on stage.

Everyone's cheering. And after she came off stage, and Mali was like, that was the best day of my life. The endorphins would be through the roof humping. She was just like, I love this. And she wanted to quit. She was like, I don't want to do this anymore. And then after the concert, she was like, let's do it again.

Yeah, can we do it again every Saturday? No. So we're now a dance family. Wow. Yeah. So it was the nerves all along. Because remember I said last week, there something's happened that made it not like it.

But I think it was the nerves, bro. If you took away the concert, she probably would have still loved it, right? I think, do you know what? She was loving it up until she really. realize there was going to be the concert there it is like so obvious so obvious we figured it out crack the code she's now got auditions for school dance so we're currently learning a dance wow for auditions next week what's does it give me a move what's one of the moves you got um one two oh yeah what do they call that one three four five six seven eight wow that's well done one two

three four five six seven eight oh my goodness yeah we're learning you are a dance fan I have, I'm here. We've both done dancing with the stars. Hang on, Zach. Let's just, let's just talk this out a little bit. And now Bali does dance. That's all I got. So I was really like, I'm trying to project that into be something way bigger than it was.

But yeah, dance family. I know. You're renowned. You're known for it. I know. They did a part where they invited some of the dads and stage to dance. And I couldn't get picked because I was up in the second tier. Oh, because you waited too long to get tickets.

Yeah. Think about that. I know. it was good gear actually Dad's dancing on stage as like a half-time entertainment That's clever It was very good

You're not getting me out there though No fucking chance No way How many beers were I ever had to have to get out there There's no beers The RSL pub wasn't even open What That's unbelievable

Good thing we're not doing dance Cool Well I'm glad she killed it So does that mean The dances end for the year No it's still going Oh, it just keeps going Still going

All right Two more weeks Oh is that it Yeah And they have like an off season It's the off season For dance It's dance off season

Yeah It's more of it No because the school The school dance Start next year Oh Fucking two dances Two

I think Lola's gonna start dancing Anyway I can't believe They're in their final term Of the first year of school I can What the fuck Where did that go

I know mate Ash there is a question That I don't have to ask myself because I don't have a son. You have Oscar. The question is, how do you turn a boy into a man? Puberty's definitely got something to do with it.

Wipe your hands with it? Puberty will do that. The TV will teach him how to do that. That's a good question. Well, I want to get your thoughts. There's a video that I saw online and it's about a dad who's got an approach to parenting, which I think is pretty dangerous.

Oh. Have a watch of this. are way easier. Really? Yeah. People say otherwise, but like all I have to do is take care of my daughter and love her and give her things and make her feel like a princess and she's happy. My son, on the other hand, it's harder for me because I can't just nurture him and coddle him like that. I have to set him up to be the person that will kill and die for the people he loves. When he's having a sensitive moment or whatever, I have to stop myself from fucking nurturing him and say, man the fuck up, young man. Oh, you fucking fell and hurt yourself? Shut up. Stop crying. That's what you have to do

with a boy we're men and that's what we have to do we have to turn boys into men there's a few things here for me firstly he said well you know we've got to turn boys into men okay you don't do that by suppressing any emotions that they have i think because statistics will tell you how many men try and kill themselves every hour tempted and succeed every day every hour every month every week whatever it is because they weren't given the tools to be able to express their emotions correctly or not correctly is the wrong word sorry express their emotions healthfully at all at all though i think his example of his son falling over and him saying man up like suck it up like you said there is no strength at all

in living in a world where you can't express any emotion, you've just got to suppress it and you just got to bottle it up. And I think the notion that not showing emotion is going to make you more masculine and stronger and be more resilient, I think is so counterintuitive. If you grow up, always being told that any emotion that you express that's like being upset, being sad, being anxious, if you're told you can never have those feelings,

you're going to have those feelings regardless it's unavoidable that you're going to go through life whether you're a man or a woman you are going to have those emotions and if you're being told by one of your parents that you cannot have those feelings when you get to an older age and you do have those feelings

which again is inevitable you're going to have so much internal shame if you get upset and you think I'm not allowed to feel this way to have this idea that you cannot feel any type of emotion is so unhealthy and it's just bottling it.

up in a way that it can never get released in a way which is healthy it's healthy to cry it's healthy to be angry within reason yeah and i think like you should be building resilience into your kids for sure but saying man up and get up if it's falling over is not how you would do that see that's for me it's kind of like all right i want to build resilience in him but i also want him to be able to be emotionally healthy let's put it this way right when we're When Oscar's older and out in the world and, you know, dating or whatever, I would love that he's emotionally available for a man or a woman, depending on how, you know what I mean.

A line in there, he said, kill for your family. But when he said it, it's kind of like he meant that. You know what I mean? You know when you're like, oh, I'd die for you guys. Yeah. Which I would or I would, you know. The only way to be masculine is by showing violence. By showing violence, but showing how fucking strong you are.

It wouldn't be more toxic if you try. It can't be good. Because then what does he do? This little kid grows up thinking, I can't show emotions. No other man around me can show emotions. Only women can show. There again is another toxic thought to think like, oh, these women are really emotional. It's like people are emotional moron.

You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. Dude, I'm so thankful that I grew up in a household where my mum didn't just allow, but encouraged any type of emotion. And it's a bit like when Mark, when Mark, was being nervous about her dance, you know, if I was to say to her, you can't be nervous, you're not allowed to be nervous, be strong, don't let the nerves come through, you're allowed to feel that way.

You, your emotion should be validated. Totally. Like, same thing with Oscar yesterday, right, for Jiu-Jitsu, he gets nervous every class. And I said, you're allowed to be nervous. But you know what, when you finish, then you're going to be happy, right? Imagine if you said to Oscar, men don't get nervous. Yeah, no. If you get nervous, you're not a man.

No, that's... How fucking dangerous is that? That's previous generations, right? This guy's just continuing this idea of like men go to... It's like when someone comments on a man doing something like, men used to go to war. But I also think his approach to his daughter is also, I don't agree with it either, with the idea that in order to raise a daughter that's going to be a woman, and all you have to do is just give her exactly what she wants

and she's going to be a princess. Yeah, because then what is she going to grow up with that mentality and go into the real world where you don't just get what you fucking want? Yeah. What resilience are you building with your daughter? Like it's so detrimental to both the genders. Let's say this, right? In 10 years' time, ask him the same question

when he's got a teenage daughter that he's given everything that she's ever wanted, right? Let's see what he says then. Also, but you look at the comments in that video, there are so many people who are like, here, I agree, absolutely. Men should never show emotion unless someone's died. Like, that's the only case where they can show emotion.

It's like, oh my fucking God, dude. Not to sit here and judge other people and how they parent, but I think when it's being done in a way that is so dangerous, you've got to say something. You've got to break the cycle of this. Anyway, it's an interesting question because I have been thinking about it a lot because, I mean, my kids,

are getting to the eight they share a room they spend a lot of time together you know what siblings are like they nothing ever ends happily they're always playing and then the only time it ever ends is someone's crying they now go we should stop this it's getting a bit because someone's going to get hurt someone's going to get hurt they don't give a fuck about that and i was starting to think about the way that i parent oscar especially when he's interacting with macy who's a girl and it's it led to a lot of anxiety for me of late. So I went, I booked in to pick up my therapy again and I had been slack on it because I've been busy, which that's no excuse because I was trying to stop the interaction

altogether with each other because I knew where it was going to end up in tears or I would have to get upset. Give me an example of an interaction where you will, I've got to step in here and separate. If they're, if they're just, if they're just, if they're just in. engaging in any activity together. Just say they're playing snakes and ladders. Yeah. Really good example.

Great game. It's all fun and games until one of them is a little bit upset about something that's happened. And then it's like it can be, you know, teasing or... Like one's winning more than the other. It mostly hit Oscar this morning. Yeah. After they were playing, just hit him.

And I was like, just keep your hands to yourself. So this was happening. and I was getting to the point where I would hear them interact whatsoever and I'd have this sense of dread. I recall vividly, I was in my room, it was early, they share a room and I heard them interacting with something like doing something and my heart rate was through the roof. Like I couldn't work out and I was anxious

because I knew what the end result would be, which is someone's going to cry, I'm going to have to step in and it's going to ruin my day already because I'm going to get cranked and I was just feeling so anxious about it because I heard a couple of times how Oscar was talking to Macy and I was like fuck that sounded like me and I was like that's not good he thinks he can talk to her like I can talk to him when he's doing the wrong thing that's what he thinks so it led to me thinking about like okay well how do I parent this boy because he's getting older he's getting you know he's

getting more inquisitive. He's lots of questions and starting to mimic things that he sees. And I was like, well, I want to build resilience in him as well as be able to be a good nurturing parent. But then also I don't want him to be scared of me when something goes wrong because then he won't bring things to me when he really needs me the most. And I was really struggling mentally with that with what's right and what's wrong. And it made me think about like, you know, what my dad was like and what his dad was like. And I don't want to shit on my dad and my dad's dad here. Progressively, through generations,

fathers and sons have gotten closer. So, like, I remember when my grandfather died and my dad said to me, I don't remember the last time I hugged my father. That's what he said to me. And he goes, can we not be like that? Wow. Yeah. And, like, that's a thing.

Like, my dad and his dad, they would swap pleasantries. And they were, it wasn't like, they weren't at each other in front of us and stuff like that. But I know that Pop would come down so hard on Dad. And then when I was sort of growing up in my house, Dad and I were closer than that, but also as well, the given opportunity, he would come down on me as hard as he could.

And I reflected with my therapist about a situation that happened when I was a teenager. And I was, like Oscar, really hard on myself when I didn't get something right. okay and i remember i was cooking eggs in the kitchen this is very basic it's cooking eggs you're a teenager when i'm a teenager and obviously the pan was too hot because i'm a teenager yeah and i got really angry with myself no one else but my parents heard me from another room and dad had a crack at me about it right he had an absolute dig at me about nothing really when i think about it and

mom had a dig at him saying you're just looking for you're just looking for you're just looking for something to have a go at him about that's what you're doing to him and i never really thought anything of it until now i've got oscar and i'm like am i looking for a reason to discipline to discipline instead of instead of i'm doing what i don't want to do which is what i want i want him to respect me not fear me and i also don't want to be like my knee jerk reaction here is just to have a dig at you and like he gets so angry with himself with things and And I physically have to stop myself from getting angry with him being angry. And it was getting to the point where I was like, I need to change this.

But I also think it's the age when you look at like Marley's six, right? And they're at a point now where they are being really independent. So much more than what they were before. Like they can get dressed themselves. They can feed themselves. They can make decisions on their own. And so you're seeing them in a sense that they're little adults. But at the same time, they're six.

They are so young. Oh, I know. And that's the thing, right? This, I would get so anxious. My heart rate would be so high before anything even happened, right? And then my immediate response is to just come down on Oscar. Why? Because he just reminds me of my fucking self.

Yeah. And I'm like, and I said to my therapist, I said, I don't want, I don't want to be in a situation where April's got to have a dig at me because I'm trying to find a way to have a dig at my son. That's not parenting. And what did your therapist say? She validated it. That's exactly what she did. She validated it and said, okay, well, next time you're starting to feel like that,

the kids are interacting because they're kids, they're going to play together. They love each other so much. And Oscar is so good to his sister. But she was like, next time you're starting to feel, just say to April, I'm starting to feel a little bit anxious. Take a deep breath and think about a different way that you can approach it. Don't just do it. And that would be my reaction, right? And I really hit me hard the other day.

And I know I left you guys a voice message where I was joking about Macy's bottom lip. But it fucking hit me like a ton of bricks, man. Because I was coming down on something, the way that Macy was talking to a mum, and I've come from the other room flying in instead of coming in and being like, hey, like, why do you, where are you talking to your mum like this? We don't talk to you like that. You know what I mean. You talk like that.

That's rude because X, Y, and Z. I didn't. I found myself standing over her. And the lip quivered. and I had to ease it back because I was like, this is wrong. But also just know that, like, I do that all the time. I know, I know, I know, like, you're not, it's not an isolated case for yourself to react that way and to let, let yourself try and discipline with a knee-jerk reaction

of being frustrated and wanting to come down hard. I think every parent reacts in the same way. Yeah, and I think there's going to be some instances where it's, going to be warranted. And we talk, we joke about a lot here as like, why do I have to yell at my kids to get them to listen? And other parents out there listening to this right now know how frustrating that is because it is. And you get to the point where you're just like, I've got to yell here or nothing's going to happen. But I, for me, I'm like, okay, that's fine, but I don't want them to fear me. Yeah. There's a really thin line here where I'm like, okay, where can I be a leader

and they can respect what I say and I say, hey, guys, stop it. And they go, okay, well, that's it, that's, you know. Yeah, I mean. And where's the line where it's like the, they hear me coming. And it's like, I remember, I remember as a kid, you know, you get scared. Well, dude, I'd hear the cutlery draw, like Russell. And you'd be like, and I wouldn't want to misbehave because I didn't want to get hit with a wooden spoon.

That's how, like, like, I behaved off the back of fear of the repercussions. of getting trouble. And I don't want them to just be, I just don't want them to fear me because the look in Macy's eye and I don't come down on her very often but she was very rude and I, there was a better way of me for me to do it.

But the look in her eye made me think, I come down on Oscar roll like this all the time. What sort of damage is that going to do to him? So I was really wrestling with that. That it was, it was, I was getting anxious and then I was getting depressed with the outcome. yeah and trying to suppress that again and it was like well okay i need to pick up my therapy again because it just and i've spoke to you about this before it just spirals for me yeah into

alcoholic depressive episodes of days and days on end of me trying to just suppress it and act like it didn't happen but and it was it just got to the point where i remember it was it was very early in the morning and they started to just talk and i was like It was like a pit in my stomach. My heart, I was sweating. April was at the gym and I was like, I can't do this anymore. But, like, credit to you for having the self-awareness to be like, I am struggling. Like, this is something that I'm not coping with right now

because there are so many people out there who would just continue parenting in that way of the cycle of wanting to have their kids fear them. I think that is the easiest way to pay. parent, but also the least beneficial to grow up to have a really healthy relationship with your kids. Yeah. And I know, like we say, we joke about it and we joke about, like, I can be... We're giving advice.

I can be erratic. I think, like, look, I'm going to yell. I'm going to be erratic, but I need to balance that out with being able to treat Oscar with a little bit more nurturing. Yeah. That makes sense. No, it does. Lola, who's four, she's probably the, like, the Norder.

Like Marley is a bit of a stickler for following the rules. Yeah. And the other morning, Laura was out, the door pretty early. And Lola woke up. Laura was already gone. And Lola always has like a morning cuddle with Laura. That's how she starts the day because she couldn't have that. It's like a coffee.

Yeah, literally. And so she was just so upset the fact that there was no Laura. She didn't get a chance to say goodbye, didn't have that cuddle. So she was just having a... tantrum over everything to the point where I gave her a wheat bix she wanted to do the honey but I didn't know that so I poured a honey on the wheat bix oh god she just was hysterical crying like grueling because she was crying so much I was so close to being like this is fucking ridiculous yeah I'm not going to have this you're not going to react it's we're talking

about honey here on your breakfast and the way that you're reacting is completely silly because my biggest fear is I don't want her to think that she's allowed to react to that situation which doesn't warrant how she's behaving my fear is that if I allow her to do it once then she'll do it

she'll react in the same way to other situations yeah she's like I know what I can I know what I can do here and I can just cry that's it yeah and I'll melt down and I'll just get what I want so I was my initial reaction was I need to like discipline her because she's behaving in a way which is

really silly and I was like fuck I'm just I'm gonna try a different tact to how I would normally parent and just gave her a hug yeah and it's what she needed

it's crazy because you don't in that moment you think like you said you're like you're like we sort of think they're way more autonomous than they actually are and we think way

and April said it to me before she has said, you, you are putting too much pressure on him. He doesn't, he doesn't have the regulation, regulatory systems. And same with Macy that we have. But we just, because we just think that they should. And yeah, the problem here was that I'm not, you had that thought. I wasn't even having that thought. Like it was getting worse.

So it was like, yeah, I needed, I needed someone to say to me, okay, well, why don't you tell me how you're feeling right now? and then take what I take this session out to the world with you and instead of knee-jerk reaction to stop whatever's happening just take a deep breath and think about like what else could I do here maybe I could maybe I could get them to decide themselves of what they should should not be doing you know what I'm going to pick up on the fact that you change how your parents he's like Ash what's going on with you doing yeah yeah he'd be like is everything

Okay, no. But we talk about trying to regulate our emotions. Yeah. Did have a little moment where I didn't regulate them very well. When? Have you ever had a situation where you've been riding your e-bike and a car's kind of come out of yet? Oh, yeah. Have you?

Yeah. So I was leaving my house down the road. Yeah. Not far from our driveway is a little apartment complex. And there's often cars are coming and going. It's a very busy apartment. complex and I had Marley, I had Lola in the back of the e-bike. Oh.

And whenever I see a car that's merging on, I always drive pretty slow. The e-bike is a bit of a like dad's e-bike. You know, maximum I'm going 20Ks an hour. Yeah, that's not that much, yeah. If I see a car merging on, I'm just pretending like they're not going to be able to see me, so I kind of have my hand hovering over the brake. And then as I got closer, I was like, yeah, this guy's not going to see me. He's pulled out in front of me.

Oh, God. And I swirbed, and I missed him. Oh, God. It was a little bit hairy. He was hairy? Or the situation was hairy? Both. Good to know.

Hairy shoulders. There was a bear driving the van. He's like, rah! So I stopped in front of him and I, you know, I did the look over the shoulder. And I did. It's the international sign for, oy. Yeah, yeah. And I kind of just, I went to both hands up.

Come on. What's that? What's that about? Hey? What's that about? How's it doing? And here. He looked at me, and what I was expecting was, I'll hand up apology, so sorry.

And he then gestured me to keep, like, keep going, come on. Like this? Yeah, carry on. Get out of here, shooing me away. That's more hand signals I've got from any driver in Bondi, if I'm honest. We were speaking in sign language here. I was like, what about this? And he's like, yeah.

And I was like, I was like, what? In my head, I was like, did. He might as well flipped you off. Yeah, well, dude. I was like, hey, buddy, I got two kids in the back. You've just pulled out in front of me. What was he driving? It was a white van.

Did he have puppies in there? Go. And I was like, you just pulled out in front of me, dude. Like, come on. And he goes, fuck off. Gave her the finger. Oh, yeah. Should I have regulated my emotions?

Yes, I should. Yes. Did I? No, I did not. How did this go down? And I was like, are you fucking serious? I was like, you're going to flip me off. I've got a four and a six-year-old on the back of my bike.

You're not even paying attention to the road. You pulled out in front of me. You pulled out in front of me without saying sorry, you're telling me to then fuck off. Are you kidding? And he was like, mate, geez, move on, mate. There's nothing in it. What are you doing?

And I was like, I was furious. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I was like, learn how to fucking drive, pal. And he was like, oh, right-o, mate. Yeah, good one, good one. And the kids were kind of like, uh, what do we do?

Dad, is everything okay? And it's a he then just like sped off going past me. And I was like, I'll get you. And I was so angry. And then I look up to my left. Oh,

no. My neighbor, the family down the road, walking with their pram. And I was like, Hi, Hatter. How many F-buns did you drop in there, though?

A lot. Yeah, yeah. I think it was three. I look, I don't mind that. I was, furious.

Yeah, I think that's warranted. Again? Did you explain to the girls that she pushed the limit? I think Hannah across the road was like, he almost hit you and I was like, thank you. You almost did. Okay. Yeah, I think your reaction's fine.

I would have fully derived. Oh, my God. Smashing windows. And the kids were like, what was that about, Daddy? And I was like, nothing. Nothing. We're late for school. Oh, my God.

It's, ah. Root. but I look I probably would have reacted the same way as a lot of people like it's hard to I wish you're with me yeah it's just back in whatever he said yeah Ash it's my favorite time of the year because

summer because summer and summertime in Australia brings what the heat very good very good I see what I'm doing I'm trying to avoid now I know are you you I feel like you are one of the later coming to the Christmas spirit. Yes. Like it takes a while.

You're like a big old machine that we have to wind up. It's like, it does take me a lot to get in the spirit. And we get there. And like eventually. A lot.

Christmas Eve. Like finally, we got him there. He's like full to the room with Christmas spirit and then it's time for Christmas. But I, I peek early. You are very,

she has said that to me before. You do love Christmas. I love it. Easter, too, I've noticed with you. I do like Easter. But for me, it's a close one. Halloween is great. But Christmas, I mean, it's hard to beat.

It is. It's hard to beat. What's not to love? Yeah. Except. Go on. When you have a Christmas fail. Oh, I love that.

See, that part of Christmas, I love, anything awkward. I'm all about. Are you the Christmas Grinch? Yes. Now, we did ask people on socials for their Christmas fails. chaos, stories, anything that happened that's somewhat funny to us. Because I think people go on to Christmas with great intentions. No one plans to have a fail that I'm aware of.

Not that you're diabolical. But I think when you're juggling multiple family members, when you're juggling multiple dishes as well, and especially with the Australian summer, the heat, adds to the stress of it all. Mistakes are bound to happen. It's unavoidable. Yes. Ash, I can't help but notice you are currently eating.

a gingerbread man that has no arms, has one leg. Yeah, it's from Aldi. It's delicious. Hence, only one leg there. Look, I guess you could say, go on, it's Christmas. Thank you. Treat yourself. That's going to be my motto this year.

Just go on. Do it. Don't hold back. Yeah. From Audi and a shout out to Audi because they are actually sponsoring this segment, Matt. That's why I've got this delicious food. Ash, it's time for Christmas fails. Nadeen has written in and she says her Christmas fail that she described as a true disaster.

Go on. Everyone sat down for Christmas lunch. My uncle, it's always the uncle. I know it is. It's so much easier to blame the uncle too. My uncle popped the cork of the champagne, hit the fluoro light above the table and smashed it. Covering every single plate of food in smashed glass. Oh, and those things explode, too, the fluorescent lights.

Shit everywhere. What do you do that? Do you just eat it? Well, a bit of glass never heard anyone. No, well, you can't, surely not. There's got to be some sort of chemical in it. Oh, no. There's more?

All they could do was make sandwiches for Christmas lunch. Oh. Instead of whatever was left over in the kitchen. Oh, so sad. Imagine the, uncle. Sorry, guys. You'd feel horrible. you might and cheese sandwich.

Because usually what would happen with families, right? Correctly if I'm wrong. Outside of family coming in together to celebrate together, they'll all bring a dish or that you're in charge of the meat, you're in charge of that.

And all of a sudden, Uncle Bob, who's bringing nothing, and he's like, hey, everyone, Merry Christmas. And he didn't even buy the champagne, I bet. He was like, let's get this party started.

Woo! I'll see myself out. I would never. ever go back. He's not invited next year apparently. Matt, mine's from Alice. Alice writes, it was our dog Alan Rickman's first career Christmas.

That sounds like such a movie name. Who gives their dog a last name? Like, a prominent last name. That's a beautiful puppy. What's his name? We're going to end this one on that because that's funny. Nathan Christensen? Yeah, I know.

It was our dog Alan Rickman's first Christmas with us and we were at my parents' house they were having 30 or so people over for Christmas that's too many yeah 30 or so people over for Christmas morning breakfast what and had brought seven packets of around 30 croissants the day before oh no we left the dog alone in the house for an hour in the afternoon of Christmas Eve not Alan not Alan Rickman and he proceeded to get into all of the croissants he had He ate every single one.

Seven packets? Seven packets. It's like a live? That's got to be a world record. He ate every single one of them. And then to follow up, took a giant poo under the Christmas tree on top of all the presents. It also only seemed to be on my dad's presents, which was amazing. But needless to say, he was kept outside for literally shitting all over Christmas.

And there's a really sad. It's a Jack Russell, too. You can just imagine that. It's not even a big dog. 30 croissons. Yeah, wow. Did he at least heat them up before he had it? Far out.

That is, that makes you feel so much better about the Christmas fails that I've had. Oh, for God's sake. What are you eating now? Oh, okay. Apple stolen and gingerbread man. Apple, what, sorry? Stolen. From who?

Very good. From Aldi. Good, different. This is the last one. Okay. Jess writes, a few years ago, my mother-in-law told everyone that we were doing Chris Kringle. However, she told everyone that they had her in the Chris Kringle. So Christmas Day, she opens presents from everyone and no one else gets a single present.

Her excuse was that the mother should be spoiled on Christmas. That's psychotic. Evil. That is evil. Fuck you all. I low-key like that, though. I think, like, wow. At what point, surely, because you know how you're like,

you're not meant to tell anyone who you got, but you do anyway. Yeah. Like, Laura's like, who you got? You're like, I'm not telling her, and it's like, we're married, you have to tell me. It's like, oh, God, I got your mum. Surely they worked out and I'll be like, I know, I've got her too. And then she's got every present. That's genius.

It is genius. It is genius. I think that's good gear. Also good gear, this food. You like the Stolans. If you have a Christmas fail, we would love to have it on the podcast. You can send it in at Two Doting Dads on social media or on email. Go on.

It's Christmas. I thought you're going to say the email address. Hello. Hello at Two Doting Dads.com. Go on. It's Christmas. Aldi, good different. If you've enjoyed this episode, please, like I have, I've enjoyed it.

Then you can please leave Matt. Oh, well, I'll let you do the begging. Please. the lap of God You tried all different types of begging How can I approach this one? Look, I would just... I'll play this one like a bit

Nonchalant Yeah, I was going to say that word I was like, I don't know how to say that word properly. Nonchalanta. Nonchalante. I'm in a review, a bit good, I guess. I guess, if you want. You don't have to.

If you want. Like I might read it if it's there. You don't have to. I mean, five stars. If that's what you're into, whatever. How's that? That's good.

Yeah. Otherwise, you can join us on socials. Two Doting Dads, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and YouTube. I think I think that's it. I think that's it for now. Let's get out of here for a while. Okay. Sorry, bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. and community. We pay our respects to their elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. This episode was recorded on Gatigal Land.