Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash - #242 The Period Education We Clearly Needed - With Jackie From The Nourished Cycle

Episode Date: July 12, 2026

Confession: we thought we knew how periods worked. We absolutely did not. This week we're getting a proper education from Jackie from The Nourished Cycle. She schools us on every stage of the menstrual cycle including why we really need to know when the luteal phase is, why PMS isn't as simple as we've been led to believe and how we can better prepare our daughters for when that first period arrives. There were plenty of genuine mind-blown moments in this one and whether you're raising daughters, living with a woman or just wondering how you've made it this far without knowing any of this, you'll walk away with a whole new understanding. Plus exactly what tools you'll want to keep in your family's sanitary tool kit. If you'd like to follow or get in touch with Jackie you can find her here. If you need a shoulder to cry on:  Two Doting Dads Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/639833491568735/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheTwoDotingDads  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twodotingdads/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Quick question. Hit me. Do you know what the follicular stage is? Okay. Yeah. I'm actually, I'm really glad you've brought this up because I actually,

I do know what the follicular stage is. It's one of my favourite stages. Can you spell follicular? Is it filicular? No. Look, I'm going to be honest here. I think being honest is always the best policy. Go for it.

Ash. I don't know anything about periods. No, the only thing I do know is April keeps it in the calendar, but she doesn't write period. She just uses the letter P. And I know. Stop talking in common.

I know. I was doing a little bit of research for this episode and it was, is it Luthil. Luteil? Luteil. Luteil. Luteil. And I was like, what is this? There is so much. And look, you may look at me and go, how the fuck do you not know this? And you're right. I should know this. But it's just one of those things that was never introduced to me. And finally, I've gotten up off my ass. Well, actually, has booked this in. She did. So shout out to Vic. And she wanted to teach us about the four big peas.

And I'm not talking about poop and penis. Which I also love. I do love talking about that. But I'm talking about periods. Amen. Pregnancy. Oh yeah. Postnatal.

Sing it, brother. And peri, peri chicken? Oh, peri metaphors. My bad. Thank you, Ash. And to teach us all about these peas is Jackie from the nourished cycle. She has bravely. walked into the brand new studio.

Did I mention we have a brand new studio? She's our first guest in here. She did run into a shelf. I know. But I'm not taking responsibility for that. Yeah, I was like, we need to, any future guest have like a waiver. Like if you have an injury whilst being in the studio,

it's not a responsibility. But yeah, she's going to teach us all and hopefully teach you, my dream is that a lot of dad's husbands will listen to this episode and then be as knowledgeable as what we are right now. Especially if you are growing young girls, young women, if you will.

Is that what happens? I'll find out after this, I guess. Do I dare say raising? Yeah, let's go growing. I know, I'm like, Marley, let's talk about periods now. Let's do it. She's like, shut up.

Anyway, but we actually are talking about periods right now with Jackie. So here is the episode. Enjoy. Welcome back to two doting dads and one doting mum. I'm Maddie J. And I'm Ash. And I'm Jackie. And this is a podcast all about parenting.

It is the good. It is the bad. And the relatable. And we don't. of advice, Jackie, but you must. We insist. We insist. We're not allowed to, but you are. I didn't ever think that we would be doing a podcast episode on this topic. I always knew we'd get here eventually. One day. Yeah, Ash has been pushing this narrative for more. We're progressive dads, right? Absolutely. Well said. Yes. I did a podcast episode with Life Uncut,

And I was open about the fact that I didn't know about, you know, tampons and how they worked, pads, I think. And I was, you know. I was verbally abused. You did get, I did. I don't check comments very often, but I was like, ooh, it's going to be juicy. And people were like, cancel. So then I, they were like, what a fucking idiot. I was like, okay.

It was a bit mean. A little bit mean. And so I've been, I've been a bit, I was like, I'm scared of the topic. We're trying to get better at it. So that doesn't happen again. Yeah. So you've got, as my wife said, you've got your work cut out for you today. Yeah, I did laugh.

I was laughing and it was very funny. She was like, good luck. You're fucking needed, he's an idiot. I'll just be running out the door later. But let's find out a little bit about you first. Yes. Okay, so do you recall the most amount of trouble that you got in as a child? Look, I wasn't that bad as a kid, but...

We'd be the judge of that. Who did you kill? Who was it? Close, actually. It was more aggression than anything. Oh. I vividly remember it was back in the MSN days You know you'd race home after school

Was it age sex location? ASL And we'd chatting to whoever the fuck we were chatting to And then the phone rang And I picked it up Because you know back in the day of home phone Someone didn't have dial-up Yeah

Oh wow Ritzy We also had foxtale What? What? What? She had foxtale You had foxxale

You had foxxed up Yeah we were Come on, ass Battlers over in Brisbane. All we had was a fucking rusty wheel and a stick. Sounds pretty good. But no, I remember picking up the phone. It was called for my sister. My elder sister, I've got two older sisters.

And I was like, fuck. Ran, sprinted. And I previously had a fight with my sister just before this. Open the door. Piffed to the phone very intentionally out my sister. Ran out because I have to go back to my MSN. Yeah, so you were just annoyed that you was taking... I was just annoyed at her.

I was annoyed at, like, we had a fight. annoyed at her, grabbed the phone, answered her, ran to the door, pifted the phone, got a phone call, ran off, back to my MSN. I would have been 13. Sure. And then next minute, mum and my sister crying are at the door. And I'm like, oh. What is it? Have to log off.

Turn around. GTG. Big, BRB. Turn around, big, swalleled. I've piffed the phone at her face. Split her face open. Pift. No, not a spiffed.

I'm not heard of pift. Piffed it real hard. Oh, write that down. Write it. I'm learning heapsed anna. I'm learning heaps already. What were the repercussions of the piffing? Oh,

I was off the MSN, it was go to your room. It was... I'm in my room. I also bit my sister, but I was a lot younger. Whoa. Okay, let's break... Mike Tyson over here. Yeah, see, that's the thing.

It's more aggressive. I'm a bit worried. But no, my... I reckon I would have been like maybe five or six. My other sister, middle sister, was standing in my doorway, not letting me out of my room. And so I bit her arm, and she clearly...

Seems successful. Yeah. Did it draw blood? Yeah. Very unbranded. So you're a vampire. We're all about the bleeding. Right.

So, yeah, that, you know, aggressive tendencies, maybe. I once, I was like nine. I piffed my sister in the face with my fist. Oh, you picked a real good. That is cold abuse. Tell you what, though, I have. Well, hang on you, you're biding your sister. And then I opening up and you're like, oh, that's a little out.

I'll tell you what, a phone does that. I've piffed a phone at someone. and split their eyebrow open. But he deserved a good. And you got all judgey on me just then. Yeah. When you're in the room, even if you come in with good intentions, everyone gets a bit of bullying.

Yeah, that's right. And I feel like the ice has been broken. Very much so. Yeah, absolutely. I'll be honest here. I'm going to be completely transparent. Go. And people may judge me for this.

And that's fine. But I want to say, I literally know. next to nothing about periods other than there is blood and it happens once a month. Yeah. And it's the egg getting out of there. Okay. What's that cold again? Do we know?

The embryo. No. Where the egg comes out. The vagina. No, guys. Come on. Ovulation. Oh, you know.

You know. You're technical. You're technical. Okay. Sorry. So I guess, firstly, and I feel like it's happening more and more. when ballpark in what age range does a period begin? Yeah.

So look, it can begin early around 7, 8, 9. We would consider relatively early. Yeah, no, it sounds young. Wow. Yeah, it can happen. Probably on the rarer and the average age in Australia is about 12 and a half. I feel so soon. Yeah.

Oh, my age just turned seven. I was a 10 year old. Really? I was first day of grade five. Yep, that's how I remember. First day of grade five. First day, yep, took a sickie because I was at home and I was like, oh. and in pain, yeah.

Wow. Yeah, so quite young, right? Again, varies for everybody. There's a few different things that can influence it, lifestyle, et cetera, but that average age is about 12 and a half. And so when it happened for you, had you been given information by your parents? No, they're so taboo.

Was it? Dad, no idea. Like, didn't even talk to dad about it. Told my mom, mum goes go to your sister. Okay. Yeah. So for me, Matt's got three girls. I have one, and she's nearly five.

When do you think is appropriate for us to both start to have that conversation as parents? Look, I don't think it needs to, like with kids so young, I think it needs to be like a formal conversation right now. Yeah, okay. Or even ever, potentially, but more so normalising it in the house. You know. Well, Laura's got, like, tampons are in the bathroom and they're like on display. And so Marley's been inquisitive and asked about it.

And so it's been a very casual, like, oh, this is what this does. Yeah. I think that's the perfect place to start and start with those conversations. sessions early, you know, I'm a mum, so my kids always are at my side. You know, I don't know why they never follow a dad, but they follow a mum into the bathroom. I lock the door. My daughter will go, what's that? Pulling out a tampon. I'm like, oh, it's a tampon. This is my period. Like this helps with, you know, helping stop the blood come out. And she goes, ugh. And I go, no, it's great. That's how you guys are made. Wow. And she goes, oh. And then just like walks off.

But, you know, like just making it such a non-thing. Okay. I think that's a really good place to start is being open about it. It's not a taboo thing. If your wives have their period, we just go, yeah, mom's got to go change your tampon. Or here, I've bought you some tampons, just dropping little nuggets like that along the way.

Then when it does come to the time, let's say, late primary school, we're somewhat prepared and understand that what goes on. Do you remember, could you tell that something was about to happen when it happened for you the first time? Yeah. Generally, most women will, experience or young girls will experience some kind of like spotting, which is a little bleed. They might get a little bit of bleed on their underwear.

In the days leading up to? In the months leading up to. Oh, the months leading up. Yeah. So before their true first period, most women will start to, girls, I should say, will start to get a little bit of spotting here or there. So even like, you know, doing washing, you guys might notice it, especially if they don't want to talk about or a bit shy, a bit nervous.

You might notice that first. And so I'm sorry to like, yeah, no, go. Really, at that point, do I start, like, putting tampons in Mali's bag or? Yeah, absolutely. I think being prepared, girls, I think, get to that age and they start to know when they're aware of it, right? And there's talk in school, there's programs at school. Most of them don't tend to start till late primary school. So it's a bit harder for the girls who do get it younger.

So I think, you know, potentially even including it at the household earlier would be a great idea. Just via, you know, those little nuggets. And especially with the wives, getting them to, you know, come here. Look at this if you want. Like, just be super open. about it. So I think it's a good thing to be prepared. Girls generally are aware that something is probably coming. What they're more scared of is not being prepared for it or leaking through their clothes. Yeah. I can imagine the anxiety around that would be really hard. Yeah, 100%. So this is where,

you know, and there's a vast array of period products we could use. I would suggest potentially pads or even period underwear are places to start with girls young because the tampon can be a little bit invasive, which we can get into. But they're probably generally the more safer, comfortable options to start with. And excuse my ignorance, a lot of my ignorance in this episode, because obviously we're learning here too. Matt and I had a bit of a discussion a little while ago about the cycle and how long the cycle is.

Yes. Everyone's going to be different, right? Can you give us an idea of what that looks like? Right. So, period is the beginning of your cycle. All right. Okay. Okay.

Should I write this down? we'll try to stay as basic as possible. Okay, all right. So you start, first day of your cycle is first day of bleeding. Yep. Then you have your period for generally about four to seven days is what we would consider a healthy period. And does the bleeding, does it start heavy and then taper off or is it kind of? Most girls will get a bit of like a light bleed, which then gets into a heavy bleed.

So they might get a bit of spotting, which is just like, you know, a little bit of dark brown type blood on toilet paper. They know their periods coming. and then their first day they get real bleed is what we consider day one. Like a heavy flow. Yeah. And sometimes like Laura will say, oh, this is such a heavy period. Like why sometimes they're really heavy and sometimes they're lighter? Why I don't understand why it's not like the kind of same each time.

Yeah, really varies. So especially as we head towards like perimenopausees, things can change too. Like honestly, how long's a piece of string? It can be, you know, like travel can delay things. Go in an airplane. Things happen to the body. That can delay it being sick. can delay it, you know, you can have more inflammatory markers in your body,

which causes things to create a heavier bleed. There's lots of different reasons. Right. Where I say, you know, if Laura's like, God, my period is just so heavy and it's not, it's not stopping being heavy. And that's a change for me, anything that's a change in a woman that happens repetitively, I always say go and get investigated. But what causes it to be heavy, very.

Just so bad. Diet, stuff like that too. Yeah, nutrition, absolutely. Hydration. Hydration. Have you ever been yourself, been like, Oh, this is kind of too heavy I should speak to someone? Personally, no, it hasn't happened for me, but I see that a lot in my clinic, right?

Like, girls are coming to me because they've got suddenly heavy periods or they're constantly anemic because their periods are so heavy. Wow. Just another thing women have to deal with is anemia, iron deficiency, which can cause, you know, all sorts of feelings, emotions, energy level problems, etc. That another thing that women have to deal with. So the first week, we say, is your period. What comes next?

So day one, first day of bleeds. we divide our cycle into two sections. We got follicular phase, which is phase the first half, and then we've got Luteal phase, which is second half. Okay, I've heard of that one. Yes, good. You would have. Then we, whilst we're bleeding,

we're in our follicular phase, we're already having follicles come to the surface of the ovary, prepping to hopefully get pregnant or get fertilised, right? So inside each follicle, picture the ovary lack a big mine, and down the very, very bottom is all the eggs a woman will ever have. Then across months, it takes months for a bunch of follicles to rise to the surface of the ovary and get to the top of the mind. So that will happen every single month on both ovaries, about 10 to 20 follicles.

Generally somewhere in there will come to the surface. And that's the one that could- They contain eggs. Each follicle contains an egg. Okay. Right? Then as we progress through our follicular phase, one of those follicles grows bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and that's the one that will end up ovulating. Now, in this follicular phase, this is where it's all about estrogen.

We get a big rise of estrogen, a big surge of estrogen, which then triggers the brain to say, hey, brain, we're ready to ovulate. And then the brain goes cool, ovary is ready. And it sends out a hormone called luponizing hormone, which if you're ever trying to conceive and you're doing an ovulation stick test, that's what that measures. No way. I'm learning so much already. So luponizing hormone triggers thanks to this big estrogen surgeon. It's the most amount of estrogen a woman will have in her cycle. And is that good or bad?

It's good. We want that. All right? Yes. You got that ride. So we have that big surge and then that triggers ovulation. So that follicle that grew bigger and bigger and bigger. That is the one that then ruptures and that releases an egg.

Then you've got about a 24-hour period where that egg can get fertilised. Now, whether a woman wants to make a baby or not, your body is always trying to make one. Right. Okay? So we've now released that egg. That egg then travels into the fallopian tube and hopefully meets the sperm. And if it doesn't mean a sperm, it will start to travel down into the uterus. Now, ovulation is a trigger point for the luteal face.

So where that follicle ruptured, right, that big follicle ruptured the egg, that overnight turns into a gland called the corpus luteum, which is why it's called luteal face. Corpus luteum. Corpus luteum. Corpus luteum. Corpus luteum. Yep. Corpus luteum.

Corpus luteum. This is like a corpus luteum. I was going to say Harry Potter spell but sure. I am. Corpus luteum. All right. So that corpus luteum overnight grows up to about four. four centimeters in size, grows its own blood supply, yet only like one of the non-disease tissues

that can do that. Pretty, like this is where women are just amazing. That's great. Yeah. So it can get pretty big, right? Then that gland is a super energy hungry gland. It requires a lot of energy to do its thing. And that is what secretes progesterone.

So then the second half of the cycle is all about progesterone. This is where ovulation is the main event. Because if we don't ovulate, you won't make progesterone. And that can become an issue, which we'll talk about. So then you've ovulated, corpusly team is made. Progesterone, surge is right. We then, at ovulation time, you get a minor drop in estrogen. Okay, drops by about 25 to 50% at ovulation for short term.

So some women can also experience some problems and symptoms at mid cycle too, which is probably something elysis is like, oh, that makes sense. And can I just check the corpus leitam? Well said. Thank you. Where is it happening in the cycle? So that's mid cycle. That will, all right?

So we're roughly anywhere between really day 10 to 20, but roughly day 14, 15, 16, you will ovulate. Fortnight in. A fortnight. Yeah, kind of. Yeah. And at this stage, a woman will also start to see some slimy mucous in her underwear, which we can talk about minkas later.

Is that discharge? Yeah, discharge, discharge. Well, is interchangeable. I always, you're getting brown. I always wonder what that stuff is. Yours are discharges. Yours is discharged. That's how I put it.

So again, whenever you're doing washing with your kids as they get older the gals, you can even notice discoloration on the underwear because it's acidic. Yeah. And you can get secretions or discharge, which change the color underwear, completely normal.

you've ovulated, we're now making bulk progesterone. Okay, progesterone is all about holding the endometrial lining in place and transforming it to hopefully help it hold a pregnancy because remember your body is trying to make a pregnancy, and if it doesn't, then we end up with a period. Okay, so progesterone surges, we get another mini surge of estrogen in the second half, but it's all about progesterone, really. And if we're not getting that progesterone, all we're getting is another second

surge of estrogen. So that's why ovulation is so important. They work kind of together. They're kind of like a yin and yang hormone, all right? They sort of level each other out. Yeah. Like me and Ash? Yeah.

Well said. You're on fire. You're on fire right now. I'm just going to let you do things. Thank you. Then we get to our right before our period. We've got progesterone up. We've got estrogen up.

And then we get a big plummet where those hormones fall away, which then triggers the uterine lining to shed, which then triggers the period. Now, this is the time where husbands go, oh, she's got a period. I would never. Neither. Right? Yeah. I've learned my lesson. This is the time.

And you would too. If you guys lost your testosterone by about, you know, 80% in a weekend, in two days, the thing that makes you strong, that makes you keeps your muscle, that keeps your muscle, that keeps you happy, that keeps your libido up, that keeps your energy up. Imagine if that plummeted right down. I would be such a whiny little bitch. Oh, yeah. You guys, guys, you guys, you guys, would really cop it. I know. As soon as I get a little bit sick, I'm like, yeah.

But actually, in our defense, that's why it hits us. so hard because we're just not used to it. We're not used to the Rocky Road, you know? Well, yeah, no, okay, exactly right. I can't see. A calm sea never made a good sailor. Well. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, right. The wave. Thank you. Sure. So then, yeah, we get that comment. Because you guys are so strong. Yeah, so strong. That's what it is.

Recovery, recovery, done. But then that drops and then that triggers the uterine to Shen, okay, which is then the period. So the period is a big inflammatory event. right, we have all these inflammatory markers coming to that area to help remove the old uterus lining. So basically the first half of the cycle where we get all that estrogen, that helps to build that lining, creates new tissue, new wall. And then we get progesterone, helps to hold it in and helps to transform it to be really

healthy for a pregnancy. And then if we don't have a fertilized egg to trigger progesterone to keep being made, then the uterus lining sheds away. And then you've got uterus lining, you've got inflammatory fluid, and you've got blood. So a period is actually a combination of all three of those things. Do you know what I thought? What? I thought the period started with the blood.

The cycle, you mean. I thought the cycle started with like, we'll get rid of all the old stuff. And start fresh, but it's actually the other way around. No, it's the end of. Yeah. There you go. No. I didn't know that.

No. I didn't know that. There you go. We're learning something every day. I thought, I thought. You don't start off with the blood. I've always said that. I did.

Yeah, finish off with it. Oh, wow. And it's like, starting, it's like a new day, you dawn. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much, sure. I'm sorry. I'll go with it.

Sorry, I just trying to make it make sense in my brain. No, absolutely, it is. Other men out there would be like, make, Ash, make it make sense. So really, the period is the symptom of the ovulation, right? There it is. And if we ovulate and we do have a fertilised egg, that egg then burrows in on that uterine lining into the wall. And there's no period.

And then there's no period because, because that burrows in, your body goes, oh, yeah, it starts to send out all these. chemical messengers and then it goes, cool, there's a pregnancy here. Progesterone continues to surge, which is why pregnant women get the pregnancy glow because progesterone is just, it's the healthy hair grow, all of that, right? What's it called? Pedestrone. Progesterone. Yeah, and estrogen also surges too. And then the pregnancy holds in place and then there's no shed because it's borrowed into the urinal wall, then your body will start to take over, that corpus luteum, which has about a 10 to 16 day lifespan in a non-pregnant cycle.

So that also dies off because that doesn't need to make progesterone anymore. But that, if there is a pregnancy, that will stay alive for the next 10 to 12 weeks. Until the placenta is formed, then the placenta makes all the hormones. This is a wild stuff. Am I correct in saying? Probably not. I don't know. He's done well so far.

You have done very well. My girls, they currently in their body, have all the eggs they will ever produce in their lifetime. You are right. Already. So that little mind down the very bottom of the ovary, has all the eggs. So really, Laura carried her grandchildren too. So, yeah, make sense.

What? I know. So when Laura had your girls in her womb, your girls had all their eggs. Already? Yep, they'll have the most eggs I ever have when they're in utero. And you can't gain more.

No. As far as we're aware right now, you've got what you've got. Yep. Sorry, the way you said that. There is. So unfair. Can you imagine if,

we only had limited sperm and like the more we had jumped me out. You teed me up for that one, didn't you? You were just like, here you go, here you go, little fella. Here's it up, he's an up shot. Ash gets to 18 and they're like, he's infertile. I'm done no more. That's the dream. So yeah, and that's the thing, right?

You guys can essentially keep going with sperm and you can also make a baby any day you want, but a woman can only make a baby once a month. And that's why a lot of people freeze their eggs, right? Because you only have a certain amount. Yes. And so statistically, by age, as you get past 35, it does get harder. You know, women are being more career-driven now, the cost of living, all that sort of stuff.

They're not sure. So they start to freeze eggs. Freezing eggs is kind of like an insurance policy, not a guarantee. And do you think as we evolve as humans, that age is getting pushed out? Because, I mean, people are having babies later. Yes, they are, but infertility rates are rising. Okay, all right. Yeah.

So it's not actually, like, as we evolve, it's not actually. It's not catching up. No. Yeah, at least not yet. That will take thousands of years. Yeah, but yeah, no. So we're not, it's, yeah, there's still infertility rates. I think a part of the rising rates is because women are having babies later.

Okay. Yeah. How much, like, just so I understand, because I, I don't really know how much blood would come out. Yeah. Like, are we talking like a cup or how much? Around 25 to 80 mils somewhere in there is what we would consider a healthy period, which actually equates to double that in fluid. So that's blood.

So if you got a heavy period, let's say you've got a hundred, hundred mils coming out, you likely have 100 mil of blood and 200 mil of fluid. Wow. And that's over the course of the week? The course of the week, but that would be a heavy period. So, you know, no woman is going and measuring what they've got. But if you're changing your tampon a pad more than every one to two hours, less than every three hours, if you're changing it quite frequently, we would consider that heavy. A tampon a pad, you should get about sort of three to four hours use out of middle.

Is that all? That's what I mean. It's inconvenient in life, isn't it? you said, isn't it? Was it a whole day? I don't know. I never said that. Yeah.

Don't. Don't believe that. I'm not trying to make you the bad guy. I said that in confidence. Sorry. It was on a podcast. So when that happens, right? Your first one,

and then that's it, right? Then you can't, it's going to happen every month. Pretty much, yeah. So again, when your girls first get it, right, it can be inconsistent. You can have a lot of the periods that we do get at an ovulatory, meaning that no egg is released,

because your brain and your ovaries, you know how I said, the LH comes out and the progester and Eastern, they're between brain and ovaries. It's like a big group chat between a lot of them, right? And then they're signaling to each other. MSN, if you will. Yeah, MSN, if you will. It takes some years to develop that relationship, right? So it takes a couple years to really establish that.

So the first year or two can be a little bit irregular. Right. But then thereafter, it's pretty good to go. It's crazy how, like, by, I mean, my wife's still 35, how in tune she is with her own And it's obviously like the same amongst a lot of women. They're like, I know myself. And it's, it must take all those years, obviously, of really like paying attention to your body, which is crazy.

Because there's no way a man could do that. No. Which is again. And this is where right. Like, so yeah, we're talking roughly monthly. So an average cycle is anywhere between about 25 to 35 days long. So that's period to period. Okay.

25 to 35. That's quite a big. Yeah. Most women will sit within like a plus minus one to three days. So let's say I get a 30 day cycle. I might then get a 33, then a 32, then a 29, then a 30. That's a healthy variance. When we're getting huge variances, that's a bit of an issue.

We're looking at things like Pcos, P-Moss, et cetera. Another condition. Yeah, polycystic ovarian syndrome or polycystic metabolic ovarian syndrome, which is the new name of P-Tos. They don't make it easy with the word. Just give us, dumb it down. Women's health is hard because it's a lot, right? A lot's going on.

Too many syllables. Can I ask you a really quick question? is it an ick if your partner also follows you, like tracks your period? No, that's a big green flag, I think. Yeah, okay. Well, I'm a start then. Can I mention his name?

Tom? Tom, yeah, absolutely. Shout out to Tom. No, he does not track it. No, no. But what if he did? But I think he knows. I think he knows where I'm at in each cycle, you know?

But no, you can. So that's the beauty of period tracking apps now. You can actually, you, yourself, guys, can log on and sync in with your wife's apps, and then you know where she's going. Yeah, so clue and flow, I think it's the two bigger user-friendly apps that most women will use, and your partner can sink into them. So you can literally look on your calendar, go, oh, Laura's ovulating, let's go. Do you think Tom tracking it makes you feel more supported?

If he's aware of where you're at you? I think it depends on the woman. I'm a very open book, and I'll say to him. Who's happening? We're on. Let's go. Eight was the same. I was saying.

Right. Yeah. So I think it depends on the couple. But it's definitely, I would consider it a great thing if it means that you're going to be supportive with it. Imagine if there's a dad listening right now and he puts the podcast down after it's finished and he's left a review.

And he goes to his wife and goes, hey, why don't we use this app and I can track your period? She'd be like, what the fuck? I would be in love with him. Really? Oh, yeah. There you go, boys.

You're listening. Give it to a Matt. Not single, but anyway. You're just tracking all these other people. cycle. No, so I think that's a great thing. If it means that you are going to now be more in tune with your wife and support her, right, or your partner or whatever.

Yeah. I think it's a great thing to do. So the beginning of the cycle, day one, that's not the ovulation phase. No, so day one is bleeding. Sorry, yes, bleeding at the start. Ovulation in the middle and then a bleed is essentially the end or the hormones drop off. That triggers the end. Then the bleed starts the new cycle.

A bleed at front and back end. It turns into the one end. Yeah, it turns into the one end. So. The circle of life. Yeah, circle of life. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So it's like, bleed. So day one, yeah, day one is when you're bleeding. That's the first day of your cycle. Then you get through middle phase, you ovulate. Then you get through the hormones drop off. And then you start bleeding again from that one. And it flows on into the next blood. And it flows on.

But we technically call that bleed the new cycle. And so your body, because sometimes I'm like, wow, Laura is really horny. Yeah. Yeah. Because the hormones. Because the hormones are like. So estrogen is a huge mood boosting.

So this is the thing, right. estrogen builds up the endometrial lining. However, it is also there as a mood booster. Runs like directly in line with serotonin. You know a happy hormone, right? Helps to boost your mood. Boost libido. Testosterone also rises at ovulation time.

Okay? So that's why increased libido. Yep. So we're getting these mood boosting benefits. Eisholin is also there to help support bone health, muscle mass building, right? It's a real energy building like growth type hormone. And then you got progesterone, which is made in the second half, helps to hold the endometrial lining in place, helps to support a pregnancy. But then there's also like the calm.

It really does take a village. Yeah. Yeah, all of them. All these different things. So progesterone is the calming hormone, right? The one that makes us feel relaxed, level headed, anti-anxiety, works on our mood. So as much as the hormones are there to help make a baby or not make a baby, they're also there to do things all over the body.

That is just, but I'm so interesting. It is wild. What a woman's body goes through. And that's the thing, right? So, you know, every, we look at it as a month, but each week, is different and in particular ovulation time, the 24 hours is extremely different. Your bulk estrogen and then it drops. And then you get to progesterone.

Like it's very different week to week. Like that's forever. Yeah. Yeah. Well, until menopause. Yeah. I think when you look at, from my perspective, when I think about the concept of periods and like this is not correct.

So just before you come before me with pitchforks, my appreciation is changing. But I was just like, oh, yeah, it's when my wife bleed and when you get really moody. make it really cranky. Delicately. That was put very delicately. Where's that knife gone? But you're not, you're not, look, I'm going to die on that sore with it. You're not wrong.

Well, yeah, yeah, you're not wrong, yes. Because, like, how can we, how can I understand, like, the, once you have that, like, the roller coaster, like, the hormones, like, the impact that it has, how did you describe it before of the, like, the drop phase when? So, right before your period, you'll have both progester and Easter and the plumber right off. It's like, you know, let's go, let's talk footy. If I send out my whole, can I go AFL? We go on rugby. The real sports. So rugby. If we, how many on a rugby on the field? 11? 13. 13. If I send out all 13 players on field, ace, all right? We're likely to, we're likely to

win. If I send out two, how good's your team going to be? Not very good. All right. So that's like your hormones. We're bulk. We're great. We're going well. And then we plummet. Yeah. What if between the quarters, I go, no, only two of you are going out. everything dies down not enough energy not enough time to run can't get the ball as well right everything's going to function a lot poorer because it's not there okay and that's what happens with hormones they plummet off and that's where the moods come in and is that when sometimes women will be like I just want to eat like chocolate and yep so remember me corpus luteum corpus lootium copus lucian that guy team corpus luteum super metabolically active meaning he

requires lots of nutrients and lots of calories lots of energy right that also secretes progester and progester and raises the basal body temperature, meaning that it raises our body temperature in the second half of the cycle too. So when people are doing fertility tracking, you'll hear about temperature tracking, we should see a consistent rise in the second half of the cycle. Because if you're tracking, you could be like, oh, a corpus luteum, I can, here's a sandwich. Yeah. Yeah. So this is how to support your wife. It's like, bring her food. It's really hungry. Good news is, I've already got a sweet treat for you right here.

Yes. You know, if you're synced in on the app and you come home, like, God, which kind of wife am I coming home to today, oh, she's Luteel phase. Let's come home with a bottle of wine and block of chocolate. Oh, yeah. You are winning husband. Dick in the corner. It's like, fuck yeah. Make sure it's too much.

I want to double fist those bad boys. And then in terms of, like, obviously your body is going through a lot from a mental perspective. But then, like, I know that hot water bottle with the cramps, Yep. Physically, what does that feel like? And obviously, everyone's different, but for yourself. With cramping in particular, let's, well, how do we describe it, Vic?

God, twisting your internal organs and, like, a stab of the knife at the same time. This is like the mind, the mind's getting worked on, getting chipped away. It was like when I had that parasite that time. Have you ever? I don't want to ask further. You're on your own. Have you ever, like, eating something bad and you get all twisting and churning? Yeah, that's a parasite.

It's like that, but then like in your pelvis. and it's almost like heavy feeling. Thumping. Yeah, thumping. You poor things. I will be nicer to you for now. But again, so knowing your daughters too, a painful period is normal to a degree.

Right. So we want to be careful with making sure that we're getting them support if we need to as well. Yeah, I feel bad being like, and then it's going to fucking thump and it's going to twist and it's going to turn. I'm like, I'm scared.

So a minor pain that might need a new referral or whatever. that is somewhat normal. But if you are stopping your day, if you're crouching over in pain, that is not normal. And that can be signs of things like endometriosis, which is a huge issue for a lot of women. It takes about 70 to 10 years to get a diagnosis because the only way of diagnosing is a laparoscopy, so a surgery. This is where women's health is so far behind.

Endometriosis is. So the endometrial lining is what grows inside every month to hopefully help hold a pregnancy. And then that's what sheds, right? then what can happen in endometriosis is where you get endometrial like tissue that grows outside of the uterus. Yeah. Like another layer. Not necessarily layer, but like pockets.

So it can happen on the ovaries. It can happen in the abdomen. And then women can get lots of pain. They get like a period pain up here rather than in their dust. So it's very painful. And remember when I said ovulation, you get a mini short term estrogen drop. That can also trigger pain of that endometrial like tissue during the mid cycle. So a lot of those endometriosis sufferers, they are.

experiencing pain, mid-cycle, whole cycle. I've seen patients that are in pain all month. Wow. And like it can then cause scar tissue, scar tissue adheres. And then you know, like, picture of me, like trying to pull gum apart. Like, it gets really late. And then you move and exercise is a problem. Yeah, it's a very horrible condition.

I'll be fucking using my period as an excuse every other day. Sorry, I just can't record today. Oh, yeah. I can't imagine. But that's the thing, though, women have to say that because they literally can't function in their day. And then you feel shit because then your boss is going, What help? But it is.

It's happening. And women are getting dismissed for it, but it's actually a real problem. That might lead us really nicely into some questions we got, because that's actually one of the first questions we got from the DDoas. We put it out there. And we have a very strong Dota community, and we appreciate them and appreciate you answering their questions.

But that just tickles me here because Ashley Rodan, she said, How hormones affect moods. My boyfriend said, a period isn't a valid reason to feel off. Oh, God. I know. Oh, the rage.

Sorry to that man if he's listening, but oh my God, it absolutely does. Like I said, if you guys lost your testosterone into low levels within a weekend, can you imagine what would happen to you? That's the thing that boost your mood, builds your muscles, keeps you from getting fat, you know? That happens to a woman on a monthly basis where they have this beautiful dose of progesterone and estrogen. Like I said, they're there to help boost your mood, help with bone health, heart health,

muscle health, immune health. They do things all outside of just making or not making a baby, that then they plummet off. that causes a big mood shift. And then also the pain, like, and then they're trying to function in their day. They're trying to go to work. They're trying to run the household,

whatever they're doing. Still at that same capacity, have you guys ever, like, have you ever been on your iPhone? No, never. I don't do that. When you're in a low battery mode, it gets to like 5%

and it gets a bit glitchy. Like you're trying to do things and it just kind of glitches out a little bit. It's like that. Like you're trying to run at full capacity, but it just isn't quite right. And then women will start to build up their estrogen again coming out of their bleed and then things start to regulate again they start to feel a bit better right now

again in saying that some women can get something called pmdd which is post menstrual dysphoric disorder which can be a huge like it's a sort of a hormonal imbalance if not enough progesterans made we can have issues where they get extreme moods like quite depressive quite anxious in that weak prior to their bleed and then once they get their bleed they're relieved of it so again that's another real condition that exists yeah totally i think use it as an excuse because it's it legitimately is one. And if you look at those times in a woman's life, such as postpartum and menopause, perimenopause, where hormones drop quite rapidly, you see the mood changes.

You can't deny that. Yeah, for sure. Is there anything that women can be doing to promote healthier periods? Absolutely. A lot of things. We're looking at, you know, I'm always foundations first, like healthy, nutritious diet as much as possible. High fibre, lots of protein, lots of whole foods, trying to stay as steer clear. of your takeaway foods, you process foods, not too much alcohol.

And again, everything balanced. But if you live majority of your life in a healthy way, then you have those treats on the side, that's really important. Sleep is another one, getting good sleep, stress levels, managing stress. And then checking in on your nutrient levels is really important too, especially, you know, I'm biased here as a nutritionist, but checking in on those basics, B12, I and vitamin D, which are so often so low in a woman, just topping them up.

They are basic foundational nutrients that help support our body's protein. Because people have to get like an iron infusion. Yeah, sometimes when it's really bad. When it's really bad. Yeah. Is there, I mean, there's obviously direct links in there that. Yes. Yeah.

Is there, I mean, obviously intaking of iron, but the iron, people who have to get a fusion, like is it just, they just lack iron or? Yeah, well, when you're removing and not topping in as much as you can, and that's the issue, deficiency. Yeah. And then when hemoglobin, which is the oxygen carrying molecule, when that gets really, though, that's what triggers the infusion, right? Mostly.

But again, so yeah, eating iron rich food. In foods in particular, if you've got a really heavy period, there's some things that you can focus on. We can get really nichey, but from that general point of view, foundations first, food, sleep, stress, exercise. See, I know some women who were athletes and their body would, that would stop the period. Bodybuilding can't happen to me. What happened? Yeah. Stopped completely.

So we were talking before record. And then Jackie was like, oh, I used to do a bodybuilding. We were talking. She was flexing. I don't know. She was just squatting. She was just like. How did that come about that you were missing your period?

I was on the pill at the time, actually. I was 22, so 10 years ago now. And I started this bodybuilding comp. And within a month of officially starting, my period just didn't come. I would always get my withdrawal bleed, which, by the way, when you're in the pill, it's not a real period. It's called a withdrawal bleed. It's probably a conversation for another day.

But so it just didn't come. So I had nothing there. And then I was like, oh, okay. So I just stopped taking the pill and then nothing ever came. And it was because of such a big loss of body fat, which is protect. of your organs, fat itself is active that sends out hormones and all sorts of things, which is why also obesity can be a problem because that can disrupt things too. But when you lose so much body fat, basically your body is saying, hey, I'm not healthy

enough to hold a pregnancy. We're not going to ovulate. And that all comes back to the brain, the thorough communications between that and the ovaries and making sure that your body is getting enough energy to actually support a pregnancy. Because remember, whether you want a baby or not, your body always wants you to have one. Right. And if the body's like, we are not in a condition where we can like sustain a

We're not going to even bother. We're not going to do it. So there's low energy availability. Yep. And then that causes the brain signaling to get a bit awry. And then we're going, we're not having a baby. It's a protective mechanism and going,

we're not healthy enough to house a baby right now. And look, I totally get it. Like there's aspects of life where that's important for that woman at that time. She wants to hit her goals, do whatever sport it is. But at the end of the day, you're not going to be getting the hormones

in that beautiful cyclical pattern when something like that's happening. It tends to mean low hormones, not enough energy. Speaking of a question. from Dota's. I've got one here that I would like to ask. This is from Sarah. Thank you, Sarah. That's Sarah spelled S-A-R-A-H-A-H-A-H. Oh, thank God. Thank God, a normal spelling. And she says, I have an 11-year-old daughter and we have early signs of a period five weeks ago.

She had a couple of days of light bleeding, but nothing since. Is it normal to get a bit of bleeding when you get your first period and then nothing for a while? She's well prepared and super emotional and we talk about it a lot. But this is one thing I'm not too sure on. Yes, so absolutely it is normal. As I said, the brain and the ovaries. communication, that takes a while to get in tune. So that first year or two, it can be a bit of irregular. We can have an ovulatory bleeds. So again, we're just building up estrogen, but they're never getting that dose of progesterone. So that hence the mood, because progesterone is a beautiful anti-anxiety hormone, right? So then that's happening. It's all just trying to figure itself out, trying to figure out the lay of the land, and then it will become regular. So yes, normal don't

stress. Just be prepared more than anything with having, you know, school bag, topped up, things at home. I love how prepared, Sarah is. Congratulations on being prepared. The communication is amazing. Do you think, and everyone's different here, but when you think back to your first period, how do you wish your mum or your dad would have reacted and what kind of communication would have helped you in that scenario? It was so taboo for me.

What was that when I was like 2004? I don't know. And it was just, like I was Dolly Doctor. Like, you know, see what section, you peel the thing off. I love that section. That and my sisters, and even then my sisters and I didn't really talk about it much. I just think, like I said earlier, laying it in from early around sons, around daughters,

periods are not a taboo topic, we talk about it and we don't slam it either. It's, oh, Laura must be on a period. My dad used to say that, oh, she must be on a period to me. And I'm like, fuck off dad. When I hear someone say it now these days, like in and around wherever I'm at, it gives me the ick. It is. It's really, like, I can, I'm here for the banter.

But that really pisses me off when that happens, right? Because it's like, well, fuck, you lose your hormones. Yeah. You deal with that. Come over here on choppy dick off. And then you tell me how you feel. Sorry, that got big. Right?

Like, yeah, exactly. It's, I don't know if I'm like, and again, everyone's different, but I kind of want to celebrate it. I'm like, let's have a part. Period party. Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah, we, one of the girls. I'm like, is that weird?

My daughter's going to be like, fuck off, done. Oh, no, forget in year seven, one of the girls, we pretty much all had our period and one of the girls was late. It was like the end of year seven, like approaching nearly 14. And then she got her period And we all had a huge party And we all gave her like Here's a tampon, here's a pad Like we're all helping her out in the school walk

And then the next day Yeah then the next day Bless her mum made muffins for everyone Oh Period muffin What's the icing? Let's go with red No

I remember but we'll go with red Yeah so yeah celebrate it Because it's like the next stage of life Like here we are You know you celebrate when you go to school When you get your first goal When you do a doubt Let's celebrate this

Why not Like turn it into a thing What's exciting rather than, oh shit. I was very late to get hit puberty, and I was just begging for puberty. I was like, come on. So you know what, though?

That's the thing you guys will start to know because the girls will start, the nipples start to pop out first, and then the boobs start to come along. You'll need to get cropped off some bras generally before the period comes. So how do you have that conversation? I think your daughter will probably approach it,

or you're just sitting down and say, hey, I think we should go sports bar shopping. Do you want to go get some new clothes and start there? Like make it again a thing. Let's go buy some new clothes. Have a pun. Something like that. I'm going to, I think my daughter would be like,

Dad, please like don't fucking come to see the shops with us. You're just going to talk about it on your podcast. And that's a good point though. Like women don't need things to be fixed for us when it comes to this stuff, but we need support and not turning your nose up. I remember, so I used to use a menstrual car. And at our old house, we had a double shower. Tom and I would always double shower,

that shower next to each other. Yeah. That was like our catch up time, right? And then once I literally, just in front of him, and pulled my menstrual cup out and tipped it down the drain. And he was like, oh. Tom. And I turned around to him, I said, don't fucking kill your nose.

I'm like, that's going to make us a baby one day. And he says, oh, whatever, and gets all that, oh, about me. And then I'm like, yeah, no, like I get it. It can be a bit like in your face, but also shut up. You know, I can't control his, but it's fuck. Do you call it? Sorry, I'm going to be stupid for a second. Not protection, what do you call?

Your utensils, what are you called? Sanitary items? Like, yeah. A knife and, not vaugh-navary items. Speaking of sanitary items, speaking of sanitary items, would you be able to run me through myself and Ash, sanitary item options? Because I know like a tampon.

Yeah. Sure. I now know that a pad sticks to the underwear. Where did you think it's stuck? Although, actually, can I just for a hot second? And there is actually a product. I was served an ad for it on social media. It's a waterproof swimming pad that attaches to the out of labia.

Oh, okay. I haven't seen that one. That's a newbie. So anyone who's like, you've been Googling the right thing. Thank you. You said labia. Yeah, you do. Not just vagina.

I know. I'm so kind of myself. So if I was at, where is the labia? It's the out of lips. The outer lips. You got majora minora. The outer lips like basically. You name yours?

Yeah. You got the out of lips, which is like the skin and then the lips lips. I'm going to start. To bring to my wife's vagina is the medical terms from now. You should. Okay. She'll love that. So, are you a fucking child?

Yes. Clearly. I have show and tell. Oh, yeah. Let's do this. Great. Let's quiz. Item number one.

I mean, podcast, I know we've got the videos. Long, cotton, fabric looking, what shape, rounded, oval thing. Yeah. What is this? That's a pad. That is a pad. Well done. Is this.

Now this, we pull the sticky back off. Okay. And that sticks. on top of the underwear. Right. All right. If you're helping your daughters. Now,

you want to make sure that it's like, it's like a pretty clear guess where you put it like right in the middle of the underwear. You don't want to go too far forward, too far back because it'll like not, well, yeah, that way.

That looks like the front. Yeah. And now, as you can feel that one, you can feel it might lose it stick a bit. That's where I'm a big fan of these guys that we call wings. Oh. Cool that.

What I think is that ad where that guy was like. Yeah, pad man. So, so, so, because it stops it from sliding around. So that goes on top and then you curl them under the underwear and stick them in.

So it's like a sticky bit. Not to the inner thigh. Yeah. And you could, if you're in your, the phase of cycle, you're bleeding a lot. You could be going through how many pads in a day? In an ideal world with a healthy bleed, we would be changing a pad every three to four hours on our heaviest day.

Right. However, you can get a heavier bleed than that or a lighter bleed. Okay, so some women will need to do. Some women do it hourly, which is where we get into heavy territory, where generally something's up. Right. All right. So that's again, if your daughter's like, Dad, I'm going through these, like every hour and I'm leaking everywhere, help me. Speak to your GP.

Speak to your GP. Yeah. Go and the doctor, get some blood work done, have a chat about the whole thing. Yeah. So they're the two ones that are really good to start with. Second good one to start with. I mean, look, these, what would you call these? They look like my underpants.

Are they one? Period underwear. Period underwear. Are they been around for one? Are they been around for a few years now. So you can see the lining, all right, that can, that will absorb the blood and then you wash it. And have you tried these before? They are, yeah, I love these as like a fail safe.

So like, you know day one, two or three is maybe your heaviest day. You can put your tampon in and wear that as like a backup, especially if you've got somewhere to go or something to do or you want to wear white clothing or something. They're a really good backup. And these are the great option if you think you get in that spot bleeding with your young child. Yeah, you can potentially do that too. Yep. April has those. They take forever to dry after you wash them just in their fly-eyed. Yes, because they're absorbing.

Yes. Yeah. Thank you. That's right. Good little. And now look, you can get, that's one brain, get a whole array. You can get now some cool, like, lacy ones that look are a bit nice, because they're a bit granny panty.

But again, no one really cares. They just want the comfort. Yeah. Then we've got this guy. Ash, that's on you. That is a rocket ship. It's a menstrual cup. It is a menstrual cup.

It is a menstrual cup. Well done. So what would you call it? Conigal, U-sha. May I touch it? You can touch it. It's silicon. Okay.

So. Is that like, what the, yep, this one? What does that feel like inside you? When it's improper, you can't. When it's improper, you really can't feel it. But these guys are a bit tricky. But if you're someone with like a heavy bleed, they can be a bit helpful because it can generally store a bit more fluid than what, say, a tampon could.

And I'm assuming that like kind of nipple end is to like pinch it to run. Let me show you how you do it. So this one, you generally have to do like a shit. shape vault. So you do that, you fold it over, create that little C, and then stick it in. So see what I mean, quite invasive. So you stick it in, then you push it up and then you have to make sure it pops open. And can I be really stupid for a second. You're going to loop that up before you insert? Not necessarily. No. Fuck. You can't. Yeah. So it can be a bit dry. But again, remember, you got blood and stuff going on. So it's also, but it is invasive. If you loop it up, it might slip out.

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. But that goes right in up and then catches it all. Okay. And then there's, like, you need to make sure it pops open. You got to kind of run your finger around it or like twist it bit to make sure it pops open, bit invasive. Probably not the first thing to go for. If you are wearing that, is that something you would check on? You generally change it once a day. On your heavier days, you might want to change in the middle. So that's where they're really good, right?

So eco-friendly, keep them. You put them in boiling water at the end of your bleed, and that disinfects it, and then you're boiling water it again when you start your bleed and then put it in. So ideally, like, put it in the morning, empty it at night, put it back in for nighttime, empty it in the morning. And so then if you're working and you're having a heavy bleed, and you're like in wearing a menstrual cup and you're like oh i've got to go to the bathroom so it's a tricky point wow so if you're not like in a disabled toilet where there's a sink so that's again

a part of the problems with these guys right they're they're a bit inconvenient if you've got a heavy bleed and are needing to change it again you could do this and your underwear so you think of your period or sanitary items like a toolkit generally women will use a couple in some way shape or form like you would choose you put your running on shoes on for your runners you put your thongs on when you go and down the beach you know they're all for different functions yeah if i've got a heavy on my heavy bleed got an important day, I'll probably wear, you know, a cup and my period undies just to make sure.

Right. See what I mean? This is a shit women got to deal with me. I know. I'm just like, I don't know. On a monthly basis. I wouldn't be able to keep up with it all. If I had to do it, I'd be like, I don't know how you guys do it.

I'd forget. I'd be like, ah, she got, you got your period again. I know, you can forget. You can. You're like, oh, fuck. And then, this guy. He's like, hey, man, brother. I reckon, I reckon everyone has forgotten and linked at least once in her life.

Oh, yeah. I mean, April the other day, she was her periods in our family calendar. Right. So I'm aware around about the time. But the other day she was like, oh, just like to her. I was like, oh, obviously she was like, I'm having a heavy flow. You can feel it sometimes. You can literally feel like a gush.

Wow. Which is like a water bottle squeezing it. You can feel that. Wow. Yeah, you get this like. And then this guy, everyone will know that one. Cotton little plug. Tampon.

Tampon. Well, well done. So this one doesn't just go and sit in like that. like on the edge, you have to push it up. So you again, finger in your vagina and it goes up in. How far up? About like a bit of a finger. It depends on everyone's vagina versus where their cervix is.

How deep your vagina is? How deep, yep. And how do you, like, is it one of those things that you'll know when you've got the spot? Yeah, you can't feel it once it's in there. Put it that way. And if you're feeling it, it will be uncomfortable. Like, you know, if your daughters are now trying it.

You can also get tampon applicators, by the way. It's like a big bit of plastic that goes there and you push it. it up so you don't have to put your finger in. Yeah. Quick question for you, Matt. Okay. Do you know how big they get? There we go.

So that's probably not quite full. That would get a little bit bigger. Whoa. Yeah. So it's like a sponge. Oh my goodness. And then when it's full, it's full. And then when that gets full, you can leak.

All right. So it's about changing it at the right time. And they can be, if you're on like your lighter day, maybe it might be your last day if you bleed, that won't be completely full. Like it all swell up like that. But you might get like only a little bit of blood on it. And then it can be a bit painful to pull out because it's dry, frictiony.

Yeah. black. Oh, and then one more. Oh, there's more. That's cute. That's just a liner. That, yes. A-flash for you, Ash. Wow. This is a liner. Okay. So you can be used on like the last day. There's just a bit of spotting, which is just literally like a few trickles of blood. Also like mid-cycle with mucus and everything going on discharge, which can happen. Women are meant to have discharge. That can be in there to help protect underwear and just feel a bit more comfortable as well. Is it sticky on one side? Yep. There you go. There you go. Same as a pad, really, but just thinner. This is, I'm excited for the future? The most. The most.

to come, yeah. Yeah, like, standing by your kids going on, so real question is, any time now. I'll be like, Laura, I got this. Real question is, is if your girls, like any dad's listening, if your girls got their period tomorrow, would you know what to do? Absolutely not. Yeah, so this is where this sort of stuff is so important,

just basic education of knowing that, like, go to the supermarket, grab it all. Let's try it. But I would say, you know, pads and period underwear, probably the best place to start for a newbie, less invasive, as you can see. Obviously, that first few periods are a little bit of regular. Yep. But so you get the spot bleeding, you could be wearing.

the say, because I like the idea of the undies. Yep. You could be wearing them for like a couple weeks, right? Because you're not quite sure. Well, yeah, you could just keep putting them on if you're not sure when it's coming. You got to wash them. Or again, like, you know, when you said a couple weeks, I was like, yeah. But, you know, you can be prepared with spare underwear as well in the bag because, yeah,

they might bleed onto their underwear. Yeah. You know, or to pack an extra school dress as well because it can link. Generally, when it's earlier, it won't be super heavy. Like, they'll notice spotting before it gets. are heavy, but you never know. Yeah. Everyone's different.

So the other thing, too, is that period undies are also great for when you're sleeping. Yep. Again, you can do like a double. You can put a tampon in if it's heavy and do the period undies, but they're super comfy for sleep. Just a great second option because no one wants to be waking up covered in blood. It's not fun. Were you wearing period undies when you were younger?

No, they didn't exist. So what would you do? We were pads. Yeah. And then I reckon I got onto tampal and it's after a couple of years. Whoever invented the period undie, well done. Yeah, really big old. They were rolling in cash.

Yeah. Growing up, is this field an area that you wanted to always work in? No, it actually wasn't. So I actually wanted to be a coroner one day. I've never met anyone who had that dream. What is a coroner? Forensic pathologist, dead bodies, figuring out how they died, cutting them up a bit.

Yeah, no, weirdo. I've got this real big thing for crime shows. But anyway, no, I've always loved medicine, always love the body. That I've always known. I used to beg my mum to stay up to watch ER, right? That's because George Clooney's so handsome. Oh, no. No, not a Clooney.

No, I'm not a Clooney fan. No. The other doctor, I can't remember his name. I used to like him. But anyway, no. So I've always liked the human body, right? Then I think a big stem for me was probably the bodybuilding comp when I lost my period. It irritated me that I couldn't get the help that I wanted.

And women's health is often quite neglected. And you're often quite dismissed or pushed off for a psychological symptom when it's actually a physiological problem. So that definitely stemmed it. And I went in, I actually studied my first degree in prosthetics and orthotics, making fake arms and legs. I used to do that. Oh, wow. Yeah. And then went back to uni. I just didn't love it. Went back to uni, studied nutritional and dietetic medicine, which is where I am now. And then I've just got a real, I love human biology. I've got, love the biochemistry of it all, real big

niche of mine, I find. And then it just really drove me into women's health. I think passionately, from the bodybuilding comp, losing my period. That was the real big driver. And it's just something that I just get. Like, it just flows off my tongue for me, you know? You don't have a fridge full of old body parts to you. It's things. I don't know. It's keeping that vibe. I like to hoard a glimpse of people.

Throwing a phone at my sister and now we're here. Yeah, I just see Matt. There's Matt. As dads, what are some of the things that we shouldn't say to our daughters about periods? Oh, she's on a period. You know, that tone, that that real, that dismissive, that she's clearly moody. That's not good for anybody. We don't need to.

be fixing things too, right? It's just about supporting and being there and it's not a taboo thing. You know, if she needs a tampon, go out and get a one. It's just about being a support system, really, and not degrading it, not belitting it, not making it taboo. I think that's really important more than anything. And welcome to womanhood.

Like, no one wants to hear that. Or it's just a part of being a woman. Take that off the little dialogue. Party poppers. Yeah. So they're sort of the biggest things. It's just about the support and not turning your nose up to it and not going,

ill and then sons you know i can only imagine my son's only two and a half but you know boys a little turds oh yeah i can only imagine him being that uh don't condone that behavior you know change that and it's about a you know healthy masculinity i think that's all really important too so even you know when we're educating and not tabooing and you know law or april are like changing their tampon and the sons around don't not do it because he's there do it in front of him expose them to it so that it's normal it's not a thing it's just it's just another day If your sons are asking, you would just, I would just say it's a part of growing up. It's what eventuates to, you know, if you want to have children, that's what it's there for.

It's just a normal part of your body, just like breathing, eating, sleeping. It's just another thing that happens to women and not men because women are the ones that make babies. Really, that's what it's for. It's a bit, I don't know who to blame for this, for all these people out there who have started this narrative, but like, the stalk brings the baby and they come from the cabbage from the garden. Yeah, such a boomer thing. It's such a Disney way of saying how people are kids. Again, just be real.

And like you can call it. I think it's also an important thing to label your body parts appropriately, especially when it comes to safety of children, etc. You know, labelling penis, vagina, only I touch it, whatever. Yeah, those things are really important. So for any dad's listening today, just sitting here for the one hour and taking this knowledge in, you're going to be doing so much more than the average dad

to support your wives and daughters through really their life. journey. Women spend 40 years menstruating. So it's important that we know that for our wives and daughters. God, the bar is low. All you're going to do is support it. And that's, that can be so easy, right? I mean, by just doing those little things. Listen for an hour and you're fucking do it. Don't slap my bum in my luteel phase. That's what I always say. Yeah, I've seen. My, oh, my husband, he goes, he slaps me on the ass and like, you know, beginning of my cycle, fine. Once again. Tom, do better. Tom, do better. Don't touch me. I saw a video the other day of like someone doing that where it's like slapping the butt at the wrong time and then it just comes up with

like his funeral memorial. Literally the same act can be so irritating at one point in your cycle and then the next point it can be a turn on. Wow, there you go. I'm having some self-reflection. It's all that timing. I almost feel this sounds really woo-woo. Like this little emotional connection to like the mind of the female body producing these

eggs and I'm like, go on you mine. It's working so hard. Yeah. It is. And then it comes to the end of its life cycle when periods will stop. And I'm going to assume that that happens when there are no more eggs left in the body. Exactly right. So as we start to age, we start to hit our perimenopause years.

So let's do some definitions first. Menopause is defined as 12 months without a period. So it's a, you kind of diagnosed after the fact. Right. So once you've had no period for 12 months and you know around that late 40s, early 50s age, average age of menopause in Australia is 51. Once you hit that, then we're officially in menopause. but perimenopause is the lead up too.

It's almost like puberty again, but on the reverse. What happens to the body? Yep. So about seven to ten years prior to actual menopause, that's how long we can get symptoms for. Yep. So really, late 30s is a sign to start watching out for things like perimenopause. In saying that,

make sure you get checked up on things because it could be another condition that we don't want to just neglect for perimenopause, but it can start happening in late 30s, which is wild, which then means. women go from potentially having a baby all the huge rise and drop of postpartum, which is a conversation for another day, then into perimenopause. Right. So perimenopause is the egg start to get less.

So as I said, you know, you have all those follicles that come up to the ovary. They start in the mine. It takes a few months to get to the top of the mine. And then rather than they're being, you know, maybe 15, there's now six, now five, four, and now there's only one. And then it gets to none. Exactly right. And so during that time, women will some months have a completely normal cycle.

Some months, they won't ovulate. Some months they'll ovulate but have a really low progesterine level and a really high estrogen level, which tends to be where it starts. So your brain is trying to signal to the ovary say, hey, we need more eggs, we need more eggs. So it's trying to push these follicles to come up. And those follicles are what actually stimulate the estrogen. So then women get a lot of estrogen. They get really heavy period at the beginning and a shortened cycle.

So that's generally the first sign that a woman will get is a heavier bleed than normal and a shortened cycle, but only be like a few days. So if I have a 30 day cycle, I might now be getting like a 25 day cycle. And it's been all of a sudden you start to notice it. And now my mood's starting to shift a bit. And my periods are getting heavier. Then they'll switch to lighter. So your periods will go from really heavy to quite light because you're potentially not ovulating. The estrogen's getting lower.

And then we get less of a buildup of that lining, which creates the lighter bleed. And then we get to no bleed at all. And now the issue with that is, if you zoom in, your progesterone and estrogen are rollercoaster, up down, up down, up down, up down. And then if you zoom out, it's this like dry and dive going down. So you have such a severe shift up and down, up and down. But really, you are slowly decreasing, well, not slowly quite quickly decreasing, compared to, say, a man's testosterone, which will decrease with age, but it's kind of like this

gradual, slow, like cruisy, river. I almost feel guilty, sorry about that. Yeah. But this is where, you know, modern medicine, hormone therapy is really fantastic in this area. That's a conversation to have with the doctor, but that is there as a support for women. And, you know, some, like, honestly, the perimenopause patients that I see, which we do supportive care with and we work in with the doctor and their hormone therapy and trying to, you know, negate as much as we can, they're different women. They're like, borderline divorce. They don't know left from right. The brain fog. They're forgetting their

keys, vaginal atrophy and dryness, meaning the vagina is getting shrinking and getting drier. So you can imagine that with then low progesterone, low estrogen, low testosterone, low libido. You imagine how much fucking tension that would cause in a relationship? Of course, my vagina hurts. It's getting smaller and I have no libido in me, right? So that's where hormone therapy can be a huge wonder. But it's such a volatile time for a woman and a lot of relationships can suffer when it's

unknown by the man and when the conversation isn't had. Yeah. Yeah. So again, anyone late 30s and beyond, if the mood is, you know, quite cyclical, you notice that like right before you have your period, things are getting really hectic. You can potentially start to go, okay, maybe this is a perimenopause thing. And just, yeah, having the conversations with your partner and going, I don't feel quite right or I think I'm going through perimenopause, I might need a bit of extra support.

And for you guys to be like, okay, what can I do for you? And, you know, maybe it means taking off some of the mental load. So not just doing a task, but doing all that. the preparatory steps to go to the task, right? Like, all good and well to go out and get the shopping, but if you need to ask for what the list is and what we're low on, that's another part of the problem. But, you know, there's things like that that can really support a woman

who's going through such a volatile time, where the mood boosting, the anti-anxiety, the bone building, hormones are starting to deplete. This is why postmenopausal women, they increase risk of diseases, lifestyle diseases, cancers, heart disease, diabetes increases after menopause because you don't have those healthy doses of those hormones coming through. It's not fair, is it?

Yeah, it's not fucking fair. The discrepancy between men and women. Yeah. Wow. We get erections, though, random ones. Any, any time. Any slight movement. And guys, apparently we tuck them under the belt.

We do. I've learned something to be secrets. I need two belts. Oh, my God. There is so much that I don't know about it. But I want to say thank you so much for explaining in a way that for me is really easy to digest. And I think there is so many dads out there. who will benefit from more information that hasn't been as available to them as it should be.

100%. I can guarantee any dad's listening. If you've sat here for the hour and listened, you will know that much more than someone who hasn't. Just learning basics is so huge because then you can know how to support it that bit better. And just being there, riding the way with the women alongside. Because it's wild. We go from periods to then potentially a pregnancy to postpartum, which, wow.

And then into Perry and then menopause. Well, you're doing great work, Jackie. you guys go. It's been a pleasure being on the way with you today. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm going to go track my wife's cycle now. Yes, I love it.

And I appreciate you coming in and spend some time. Thanks, guys. Hopefully we're going to sit down again and go through the rest of everything else that there is because this was so much information. There is so much to do. Yeah. Thank you, Jackie. Thanks, guys.

Thank you. We always brag Matthew about now that we're dads and we have tool kits. But do you have a sanitary toolkit? No, do you know what I'm going to do? One for every room in the house. When it's time to go out with the girls, and buy the sanitary items to Laura, I'd be like,

up, up, up, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, I've got this. I've got this. We know where the wings go now. Although, I do recall one time, it was only once or twice, when Laura said, can you go out and buy me a tampon?

It's very confusing. The amount of... The sponge do. I have a spun. There's just, there was like half an aisle of the supermarket was all tampons.

And I was like, there's just too much to choose from. Lots of different sizes. Is there? That's like, that's like, that's phase two. I don't know. I googled it.

But a huge shout out to Jackie for teaching us because it was such an important conversation. And you know what, Ash? We didn't even get halfway through it, so she's going to have to come back. Knowledge is power. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying, brother?

Preach, brother! And if you've also enjoyed this episode, I want to hear more from Jackie, maybe. I don't know. Please leave a review. Subscribe. What else do we do? And give us a comment,

your favorite sanitary item, please. Yeah, and your size. Anyway. I'm not laughing at that. Why? Too far. This is serious. Why?

This is like, come on. There's no shame in sizes. I just want to know. I'm curious. You can join us on Instagram, Facebook. Shut up. Or YouTube. But for now.

Keep on cycling. Keep on cycling, girls. Woohoo. We'll follow it. Send me cycles, please. Bye. Bye. Goodbye.

Can I be really quickly? I'm so sorry to be dumb here. Because the bleed at the start and the finish. But the first bleed is eight days. The first bleed, so is day one. It's generally about a four to seven day bleed. Yep. And then we go through.

We ovulate. And then we make progesterone. The first bleed and the last bleed is the same. It's the same thing. It's like, it's like the curtain connector I haven't put in yet. Bookends. Copy.

That's a better analogy than the curtain connector. Bleed peer, peer, peer, peer, period. Yeah. Got it. It's the same. Yeah. We bleed. That triggers day one.

So there's the bleed, the period, and then the cycle is the whole length from bleed to bleed. Bookends. Got it. But the bleed to bleed bookends the same bleed. Yes. Yes. Essentially.

Sorry, sorry. So that's a cycle. It's, yeah, yes. Two Doting Dance podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and the connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their elders, past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. This episode was recorded.

on Gatigal Land.