Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash - #272 Choc's Chats: Beyond The Banter

Episode Date: September 20, 2026

This week we sit down with the man behind Choc’s Chats, Jake Cullen, who you might recognise from social media for his funny videos, which are suspiciously similar to Ash’s. So naturally, the guys have a lot to talk about. Choc and Ash actually have a very similar meet-cute to Matt and Ash… although there’s one fairly significant difference: they’ve pashed. On a work trip. So prepare for some jealousy. Mostly from Matt. But beneath the pashing and petty rivalry, Choc opens up about becoming a dad to 18-month-old Bobby, including one of the hardest decisions he and Kate have ever had to make while she was pregnant. He also gets honest about the dad guilt he never saw coming, the pressure to be present while also keeping everything else going, and why the juggle of work, parenting and life is very real. And yes, Matt is still processing the fact that Choc has kissed Ash. ______________________________________________________________________________ If you need a shoulder to cry on:  Two Doting Dads Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/639833491568735/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheTwoDotingDads  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twodotingdads/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@twodotingdads  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mr Wicks, we have a guest today who happens to be a close friend of yours. Yes, I have explored the inside of his mouth. With my tongue. Okay. He's a great kisser. It is Jake Cullen, but you may know him as Chok's Chats. Yes, he makes very funny videos on social media, both Instagram and TikTok, in and around relationships, but he does do it to get a rise out of his wife.

Oh, cut from the same cloth as you. Yes. How do you know Chok? Just through the same. way I know you. Social media. Ah. It's a great love story, just like ours.

Ours is actually one that's been repeated by you. How many times? How many other people are there who just happen to meet you on social media? Moving on. Another notch on the belt. Is that what you saying? You are another notch on my belt. How does that make you feel?

And so is Chok. Like a piece of meat. Actually, this is like Jerry Springer. Me and Chok are here to confront you. You have to pick one. I'll take both. Thank you very much. but Jake is a new dad.

He's not as high on the hierarchy as you. Yeah, if you will. I'm listening. If you will. He does not have as much experience as being a dad as you. Anything else you want? How do I make you feel better? I feel great.

He does have an 18-month-old Bobby, and he did have a huge scare with Bobby when Kate, his beautiful wife, was about 20 weeks pregnant. It's news that no expecting parent wants to hear and we get to see a more vulnerable side of chalky than we would see on social media. So I want to thank him for that.

And Matt, should we get into it? Let's do it. Welcome back to three dotting dads. I'm Maddie J. I'm Ash. And I'm Chok. And this is a podcast all about parenting. It is the good.

It is the bad. And they're relatable. And Chok, we don't give advice. Never have, never will. Never plan on it. You can. I can. If you want.

Oh, geez, I'm still working it out. Good answer. See how I go with that. But we will give you a proper intro. Okay. Yeah, we don't like to do it in front of the guest because it gives them a big head. Oh, right. Yeah, you don't want to do that.

We don't want that to do that to me. We don't need that. I'd hate to be the centre of attention. No, you'd hate that. You'd absolutely hate that. So let's start with you, because it is about you. Oh, okay, yep. Well, who let him in here?

Didn't you win Father of the Year, actually? Yeah, we weren't all about that, okay. I'll take it from here, guys. Congratulations. I won assistant to the Father of the Year. Well, that's good as well. Thank you. I get all the hard-eating questions.

Just ask D.C. from today's show. Okay, I just want to ask you, find a little bit about the man. Do you recall the most trouble you got in as a child? Oh, the most trouble. There's probably a couple. There's one that sticks out. It's very weird. You know, and you guys might find it weird.

But I'm a twin. I'm a twin, if you can believe that. Twin sister. Okay. That's her. I'm the guy. You're the twin sister. Yeah.

Oh, good. That's why. Yeah, that's how it works. Maybe clear that up. But we, for some reason, it just sort of stuck on an early age. But then anytime mom was on the phone to like my auntie or someone would go, oh, now's their time. And we'd run to the fridge and would grab all their eggs and smash all the eggs on the ground.

Why? Smash them all. I'd have no idea why. And then it just sort of stuck. How old? Oh, probably before prime school would have started, maybe just before primal school. Ew little shit. And then it just like dragged on for a while.

I think to the point where my sister grew out of it and I was still like 16 at home. Like, smash you in it? No, not that old. Why didn't your motherfucking lock up the eggs or stop buying the eggs? She liked the intentions. That many times she'd be like, oh, hold on. I've got to go, niece, to smash an eggs again. And I just become a normal thing in our household.

Like a tradition. Mum would just buy. It's like the Greeks would smack the plates. You'd be like, whop-a! Back, just smash an eggs. It's fun. Have you ever smashed an egg? It is good.

It is good. Try it out. I definitely have. Accidentally, I'm not going to waste precious eggs. But, yeah, I don't know how much money mum spent on eggs. We didn't exactly grow up rich. I should probably apologise to mum about that. Sorry about that.

But, yeah, I just used to smash eggs a lot. And then I actually accidentally reversed my dad's. car down the driveway, like over our bush area, through over our letterbox, and then to the front pole at the front of the house. Oh, what was your punishment on that one? I just did the classic, like, I didn't mean it. Yeah. At least you weren't smashing eggs.

Yeah, you will let me play in the car. It's your fault. How old were you? Oh, young. It's prime school. I don't know what age, but I was very young playing in the car. Did you get in trouble? I remember, I got in trouble.

I can't remember. I probably just got a little smack, maybe. Yeah, a smack as well? Yeah. Not a bit like heaps, but you just get to the odd smack here. You're like not drawing blood. No, not drawing blood that time. We didn't box.

He's like, right, you, me, inside. Just you and dad. Ding, ding, ding. You and dad. Get some knuckle dusters. Look, I'm mad. My eight years old. Put him up.

It was like, oh, get me out of you. Why did they call you Chuck? Oh, long story, actually. You got time? No. So, moving on. No, my old footie coach gave it to me. It was short for a chocolate bear.

By the way, boring story. But yeah, chocolate bear was like, I think, remember Scrubs, the TV show Scrubs? Yeah, great, great fan. My football coach loved it and used to quote it all the time and I loved it. I used to call him JD and then he started calling me chocolate bear because a Turk. And I was like, I'd look nothing like him if you don't, if you can't tell. You're not black. No, not even a slot.

What's your background? Easy white chocolate. But then it just got, I'm like, I can't be getting around big old chocolate bear. So he sort of shortened it to chocolate and then it's shortened it to chalk. They are, like vastly different chocolate bear is like soft, cuddly sweet and then chops like. And like, oh, why they call me chock, you don't want to know. Seriously, you don't want to know. I like it.

It's cute. It's a cute story. I wish I had a better story. I usually come up with a fake one. I should have told you that one instead. You do look like a chock. Oh, I appreciate that. In the nicest way possible.

Yeah, I'm not sure of that. I hear what you're saying, but I'm not sure if that was offensive enough. Vic, he's referring to as Jakey. And I'm like, who? Yeah, I'm like, who? Jakey I get Jakey Who the fuck are we interviewing?

Sorry What does your wife Kate call you? That's what's important Cockhead Yeah Usually Nah

She calls me Jake Jacob when I'm in trouble Which Jacob's not even My actual name It's just Jake I know I get full named

All the time By April She does that She does that She knows It'll piss me off But How did you meet Kate

Your beautiful wife My beautiful wife Yeah she is listening I hope Been together for Nearly 10 years I think Wow

I should know that I should It's about that Married for how long? Three years. Wow. Yep, three years. You look too young.

I look gorgeous, don't I? A little bit weathered, bit grey hair, which I'm trying to hide. I didn't notice you got a couple of greys coming through. I shaved it off. I was like, Kate said to me, she goes, you know, you're going grey. I was like, why you bring it up? I know. I was like, what's on the side of the air?

Oh, it's just grey hair. I had to tell my kids, it means I'm going to die soon. Wow, okay. They're like, you got more grades. And they kept bringing it up. Yeah, that'll be gone soon. So in the moment, I was like, you know, that means I'm going to die soon. To try and deter them from, like, bringing out.

Why would you do that? Because I kept picking on me being like, you got more. And I was like, well, this will make you feel bad? Oh, well, actually, I. Father of you. Father of you. That's why. I take back everything I thought about that.

I thought you've got to play the victim sometimes. When it came out, I was like, oh, shit. But then you're like, oh, it did feel good. And then they're like, mom. Now you're in trouble with that. Sorry, you met Kay. Yeah, so funny story, actually. So my brother's now wife, we met through her.

I say now wife, like he's been married a few times. This is as good as the chocolate-bear story? Yeah, it's way better. But yeah, his wife and my wife were best friends growing up. They knew each other since like PrEP. So my brother met Louise. And then I was single at the time and Louise had a friend. And I was like, hey, what's going on?

You wouldn't let it go. But the night we met actually, funny enough, We're all out and like obviously I was single and Kate was single. And then Louise was trying to hook up Kate with some other of Josh's friends, Josh is my brother. A better one. And they were like real sort of like clean cut and one was just like covered in tats and a couple of them are pretty handsome fellas. And they were just like and then she said, what about these guys? What are like, oh, what do you think of them?

And they're like, what do you think of that guy? Like that's Josh's brother. And Kate goes, yeah, he just gave me a wet willie. She's like, I really like him. He's cool. So, um, yeah. So would you say that you're the first and only man on this earth to successfully pull off the back of a wet willie?

Hey, I think it works. So, I mean, I don't encourage it. Don't go trying it. But it works for me. Would that be considered a salt? Just shaking her head. Be back on fingers. I think it's great.

I think that's a good icebreaker. Yeah. Just stick a wet finger in her ear. Yeah, well, I mean, don't put it like that. That's disgusting. Like, hey, I'm not rude. Hey, come here. But that works.

So then she's saying. a song. Not for me. It wasn't like a serenade thing. You don't just give someone a wet wheelie and they just sing her song. Like a plug-in. But no, I remember Kevin a wet willie and then I mentioned a song or something. She said, oh, I can sing that because she's a singer. I'm like, oh, yeah, prove it. And then she's saying on the middle of the street. And I was like, I'm going to marry this girl. That's how it went. Pretty much. There you go. I probably didn't know at the time. It just like sounded good to

say. Yeah, it makes a story. It's, it's, it's, and I'm going to marry you guys. I do way later. Yeah, I said that just last week after being married for three years. I think if anyone in Hollywood right now is listening, this is the Americans of a beautiful romantic comedy. 100%. The notebook, chalky bear.

Yeah. Mark Warburg who played me probably if you're just saying, but whatever. And then who was the one who spearheaded the conversation of starting a family? Oh, well, that, yeah, I don't know, we just sort of like, we didn't really like sit down and say, oh, this is what we're doing.

I think we just spoke in general about, you know, do kids one day, that sort of stuff. And I was always like, yeah, absolutely. So it was Kate. But we're both very early on, just like, yeah, we're having kids one day for sure. Kate's got in their mind that she's having three. She said that's what we're doing. I was like, okay, I guess we're having three.

This is personal. How old are you? I'm 33. Yeah, great. You're good. He looks much younger. So is my sister as well. Twin sister.

Yes. Twin sister. She doesn't have any kids, though, does she? No, she doesn't. Right. So between the two, you have one kid. Between the twins. Yes.

Correct. Yeah, so enough. But yeah, I think we're just sort of, like, we always, obviously, He was like when we were trial. Bobby's what in now. He's one and a half now. But yeah, I think a while ago we were like, oh, yeah, we want kids. And we got married. And then we were never massive on tick and all the boxes that you meant to tick. But then we went ahead and did everything anyway.

But we were actually planning on maybe having kids before we got married. And then we ended up getting married first just because of the timings and stuff. But we were always happy to go, oh, like, we were going to have a kid before we got married. And then not, I remember having the conversation. I can't remember when it was. But I remember speaking to Kate about it, like pretty clearly. And it was grouse because she was on the same page as I was. It's a pretty big decision, you know, and it wasn't like, we were always coming kids,

but it wasn't like, oh, we're just going to go to the shop and buy a new surfboard. Like, it's bringing someone into the world. Pop your pants off, let's go. It's just like, and you can't return this, you know what I mean. But yeah, we didn't want to like just go, oh, we're just going to get married, have a kid, buy a house just because we thought we had to. Yeah. We wanted to do those things because we genuinely wanted to do those things.

Did you have a plan of attack or was it, look, we're going to stop being protective during sex and then if it happens, it happens? Or is Kate, like, this is my obvious. window. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was more like that.

Yeah. It was just like, yeah, we're having kids. And then we're pretty lucky, you know, like to like we got, like on the first go, I'm pretty sure. Like, um, so. Well, you are a pretty good kisser. Yes. As you would know.

So I would know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do that work? No. Oh. And we'll get to that.

But yeah, that was. Yeah, we're pretty lucky. I think, I think actually was it might have been the, might have been the second go. Because like, obviously the double lighting window and all that stuff. And K was very like, oh, oh, yeah. And then. You want to chop, man. And then, yeah, I remember I was just working on the house, just like out of the phone.

She was kind of cool the way she told me. I was just working out in the garage or something. And then she just sort of casually come out and talking and she just like had the pregnancy stick. I was just like, shit. And I just froze. Like, what the fuck? I was like, oh.

That was quick. Yeah. So, um, so yeah, that was cool. It was actually, um, that part was like, yeah, really exciting early on. It's like that for, yeah, when you first find out, you sort of like, you're excited, but then you don't know what to do next. You're like, yeah, because everything's for the first time. Like, I can't, I couldn't compare it to anything, you know, like your first kid.

It's just like, oh, I'm experiencing every part of this for the first time. So what can I, what I do, you know. But it also doesn't really, oh, for me anyway, didn't feel real. You're like, oh my God, this is great. And you're like, well, I guess we'll just wait. Yeah, it's like, what do we do now? Yeah, we're just, doesn't really feel like it's happening. When you have the scans and the checkups.

Can't be like, do you want a drink? Should we have a drink? Yeah. It's like, ah, let's celebrate. So when did it start to sink in with any moments where you were like, shit, this is actually happening? Yeah, I think, like, because there's a period obviously where you like, I was like dying to at least tell someone. I'm going to have to tell someone. I told my brother.

So then I could at least have someone to talk to about it early on. And then we waited to like a bit further on to tell family and stuff. And that was exciting. And then like tell her mom and dad. And mom's reaction was fucking incredible. She just started screaming and going nuts. And then my brother's actually got three kids. My sister's got three kids.

So she just wasn't her first. How many siblings do you have? There's four of us. Okay. Oh, wow. Mum had four kids under five at one point. Yeah. You were one of five under five.

I don't know. She'd get along with my mum really well. Wild. I'm struggling with one. So I don't know how they do it. I don't know. Yeah. Like that was slowly started to kick in, kick in.

And we started doing all the scans and stuff. I did like the six week or then the 12 week. And then it wasn't until like the 20th week when we had like a little bit of a scare coming like the 20 week scan, which sort of from there as exciting and amazing. it was. I think from the 20 weeks onwards right up until the birth. It was pretty sort of traumatic, I suppose. And like we've sort of gone really numb, I guess, like from just thinking about it or talking about it. Because it's pretty full on from the 20 weeks onwards, to be honest. We had like a bit of a scare. So did you guys going together for that? Yes. Yeah, we did.

So went together. I had the 20 weeks. And then she's like, yeah, everything's fine, whatever. Then the lady doing the scans was like, oh, yeah. So there's just with this one that's like, she said something like, oh, it's just over 10 mil, a little bit over 10 mil. So you get a follow up call with the hospital tomorrow. Just go home, whatever, that was sweet deal. We didn't know,

yeah, exactly. We were like, what, we didn't really understand the 10 mil thing. Like, okay,

like there's a follow up appointment with the hospital tomorrow. And I'm sure there's dad's out there who are great in that environment. But I'm just sitting there in the corner being like, you can tell me anything. I have no idea what you're clicking,

what you're measuring. I'm just waiting for a thumbs up. I was like, what's that? Is that, is that, that's just a black screen. I was like,

I was like, I'm the receptionist. This is daytime TV. I was like, oh, well, nothing like me. This is the view. This is the view. So, yeah, then that was kind of cool. Seeing the first scan, like the black and white one that you see.

Like, and you see the heartbeat and moving around. I was just like, oh, my God. But then, yeah, before we even got home from that scan, someone was on the phone to us saying you booked in tomorrow morning at the hospital, like to come have another checkup. And we're like, oh, okay, sweet. Guess this is normal? And then we didn't know what it was.

And then we went in there. And then pretty quickly, they told us. us like best and worst case scenario, like worst case scenario that we could lose the baby. Okay. And at this stage, if they'd not told you what was wrong? No, well, they were assuming that the people that did the scans had told us a bit more information. And we've gone in going, sorry, like, what?

Hold up one second. That was like, we were just, and then they were like, best or worst case situation. And then they're like, even if it's like, you know, might lose the baby, there might be some learning difficulties. And we're just like, hold on, just tell us what's going on. They're like, oh, sorry, it's just fucking, I'm just trying. I've really spoken about this really at all besides probably like now. I haven't really spoken about it in depth with anyone else except for.

Take your time. Kate, so I'm just trying to think about it all. So what it was was fluid on the brain on one side of the brain larger than what is expected. So I think mild is, yeah, over 10 mil, and then 13 mil to 15 mil is moderate and over 15 mil is severe. Okay. And what it's called is ventricular migli. So what that is is just like, yeah, they're fluid on the brain. Like, okay.

And then they said all these things best and worst case. So we'll freaking out. And they said, look, from here, we can not do any more information, no tests, no, because it can be quite overwhelming for people. You can just continue with the pregnancy and not know anything. Or we can go down the path of investigate, do some, you know, procedures, some tests and find out what's going on and monitor it. And we're like, yeah, we'll go down that path.

Like we want to know everything. And like, yeah, you can. That's fine. Just with that, it's going to be weekly monitoring of the brain, the size and a few other things. So we had to do another procedure called the amniocentesis, I think it is. I think I hopefully got that name right. That's, yeah, I would have believed you. Yeah, so all that is, is they get a big needle and they have to put through my wife's, like, stomach.

And then they test that fluid to see there's any other, like, chromosomes issues or any other genetic stuff with that, which is the scary part about that was because we did that at 21 weeks, It's like, they said, like, oh, there's a chance that it could bring on early labor. And they're like, at 21 weeks, if you go into early labor, like, you'll lose the baby. And that, we had to make a choice of like, you do this procedure to find out more information to see if there's anything wrong. Or you don't find, you stop here, you don't find out anything for the rest of the pregnancy and you just hope for the best. Or you do the procedure and it brings on early labor and then you lose a baby, you know. Fuck.

So that was, um, and we were just like, Fuck, like, we didn't know what to do. Yeah. But we end up getting a bit of guidance from them and thought the best option just to have it, you know, and thankfully we had a procedure and everything was fine. We didn't go into early labor. How long did you have to make that call?

Well, we found out 20 weeks, and we were doing the amniocentesis procedure at 21 weeks. Wow. So they were like, we've got to make a call on it. Yeah. Because is it, is it rest, I don't, you might not know the answer to this. Is it restricted in terms of how many weeks you can

and cannot do that procedure. That might be a bit question, but as in when you can do it? Yeah, is it? Like, I know they said it was the week later, but are they like, hey, you need to make the decision because after 21 weeks, you can't actually do it. No, you can. Like, they can do it. It's actually almost, people have been known to do it later apparently in their pregnancy.

So then if it does bring on early labor, at least there's a chance of like the, you know, baby still surviving if that does happen. Can you talk us through that, what that procedure was like for both of you and Kate to go through it? That was probably like as far as the ventricular megly, I think I got that right, as far as that goes, that was one thing that was very scary. Yeah. And then from there, we thought like, oh, that was like the scariest thing about it.

Then having this procedure done, that was even scary, especially when we knew the risks involved just to, we just wanted to find out more information. So that freaked us out. What's that conversation like then between you and Kate when you're at home discussing whether you do or you don't? Yeah. I remember them asking us in the room. And they didn't ask as in like they wanted an answer then.

But it just very, it felt because they've obviously got to deal with a lot of people and a lot of patients and a lot of, you know, it felt very like, all right, well, this is what you're going to do and these effects. I know they can't be super personal to everyone. And they're very desensitized. Yeah, I know. And they did an amazing job. Like the nurses and midwife did the whole thing and everyone was great.

But that was just very hard because they're like, all, well, we need to know. Like, so they sort of gab within the week. And then we went home and all back and forth, back and forth. And of course they say, you know, don't jump on Dr. Google and try and Google anything. It'll just scare you. Everyone does. Yeah. Couldn't help it.

Yeah. Well, chat GPT says it. Yeah. It's like, oh, God. Tell me what's going on. But so we did that and then couldn't really find anything on it, to be honest. So we're like, oh, fuck, that didn't really help. Could just spell it.

But, nah, I could barely even say it. Yeah, it would be my, how do I spell it? Yes, and I've gone through that and thankfully everything was fine. But then we just felt a little bit, not defeated, just a bit like, Like, Kate still says that she just went numb throughout the whole time. Because every time we did something, they did something else. They would find something else. And then we have to go do another sort of genetics tests or something else.

And then we did the amoeuvre stasis test. And then they come back and said, oh, now we have to do an MRI on the baby's brain. But we have to wait until 26 weeks because the baby's brain is more developed then. So we just, and then, of course, when we went back to do that, the MRI was on the, he was on the wrong side. So we had to wait another week to get him on the other side. and it just we kept coming one thing after another and I'm like, I'm like a bit of a worrywart at the best of times

like I'm freaking out just like walking out of the street Like so You see a man shaking down the street Yeah, his job He's going to wear pants today Should have wore pants today, Jesus So yeah so I was just like And I'm just trying to be strong for Kate

You know just like saying telling her like Everything's going to be okay And like I don't know if it's going to be okay Like I was yeah So that was hard and I think Kate knew Like she's stronger than me physically mentally, but I think she knew that I was like struggling just as much as her because it's scary, you know.

Well, the outcomes are so extreme, you know, the different scenarios you can end up with, you can have a healthy baby, you can have a baby that is not going to survive, you can have a baby that has disabilities, and all you can do is just sit there and wait. Yeah. Like, it's such a weird environment to be in. It's just, yeah, it's honestly like, it's so, it was just so hard to carry on with everyday life. and then my wife found it hard as well when we'll see people,

oh, how are you going? He has the pregnancy. And she would just hate that quick because we just sort of kept it all in like ourselves. I had, lucky enough, I had my brother and Kate had like one of her mates and we didn't really, beyond that,

we didn't really tell a lot of people, you know, told family and stuff. And then it just become this real hard thing that, yes, we had people around us, but we also didn't really want anyone else to know. Yeah.

And then it made it even harder when people were like, oh, hey you're going. We're just like, fuck, like, we are fucked. Like, we are struggling. But then we just started to go, yeah, yeah, like, it's fine or whatever. And then it's just hard. I'm assuming that because, you know, 20 weeks, you've still got such a long way to go.

How much anxiety? I mean, I know that you guys were doing, you know, you do diligence. You're doing the best you can and making decisions leading up. And I can't imagine just thinking, okay, well, first step, we've got this really big decision to make. And then you said every week it was something else. and the anxiety, it must, it must have taken some of the joy out of the experience, I guess, like of the preempting a baby, like, oh, this exciting moment in your life and it's sort of been dulled.

Yeah, it did, especially when we'd had friends similar age, like having kids around the same time and hearing their experiences and stuff. And everyone has their own battles and it deals with a bunch of different stuff, you know. And it was, like, it was extremely hard, probably the hardest thing, like, we've had to go through as a couple and individually as well. I can't imagine just what everything that Kate went through as well. But in saying that, as hard as it was, we're just like so incredibly lucky. The birth, the birth was amazing.

That part was like on the day. That was incredible. The midwife was amazing. And then from then everything's been like, you know, really good. And then I just... Did you know going into birth? At that point, were in the all clear? Or were there still a lot of unknowns?

So we got told like a week. and a half before Bobby was born. Basically got a letter saying like you're in the clear, but like every pregnancy, there's a chance of there could be, you know, something wrong. And we were like, and didn't even really get,

that's a week and a half, so it didn't really get to enjoy that much really. Because before you know, it was just like, so the whole thing was just like, but then we, it's weird, like I said,

I haven't really spoke about it in depth more than say it today. So other than speaking to Kate about it. But we've always, just like forgotten about most of it since he's been born because he was like he's fine you get thrusted into being in the thick of it immediately yeah and we're just like we're almost a bit like oh shit remember that remember that was and kate like i'll probably remember more than kate yeah and she just like she's just like she's just got numb with the whole

thing because she's just like i don't want to even think about that but i sometimes like it's weird i don't know like i look at sometimes i look at him now and like everyone thinks to her baby like that's the cutest fucking babe I've ever seen in my life. You know what I mean? Like I look at it now and go, oh my God. Like, and I just sometimes like, like, I just think like, like, what if? You know what I mean? Like, oh, yeah.

Yeah. Like, because I don't know how, I don't know how close we were. I don't know anything about that too much about it. But I don't know how close you were of going down the potential other path of like. Yeah. It's, it's a, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. It's really scary to think.

I mean, even now after and you're like, I wonder what if. And I think like those sort of thought, I think. think they're healthy to have those sort of thoughts because then also you're so grateful that where you've ended up. Yeah. What was it like holding it for the first time then? Oh, mate, insane. I was actually meant to tell Kate the sex because we were having a surprise. I think she knew you guys had sex. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to tell Kate, we're having sex now. I was going to tell her like if it was a bore a girl and then told the midwife that as well. And he come out and I just went, huh. And just froze.

And the people off was like, we'll let daddy tell you. And I went, oh. Just froze. And they're like, it's a boy. And then Kay's like, oh, yeah, it's a boy. Oh, yeah, it's a boy. I was trying to say that. What is it, dad?

It's a baby. I was, I was getting there. I was just like so, like, frozen just like with joy. Like, it was amazing. But I was just like, oh my God. It's a weird feeling. What is that? It's a weird feeling like for us.

It was, here goes. dad his baby like after you know like wrapped up nicely and I think a lot of people don't talk about that moment that you as dad are sitting there and mums obviously have got to be looked after and you're like holding something you're like what am I doing holding this yeah you're like oh my god all of a sudden just like that yeah like am I allowed to do this yeah is this is this some sort of how to book like what is going on I know at one stage I was like should I be doing more yeah should I be doing more than just this but there's obviously you're just in this especially for You guys were like, there was such a, so much anxiety leading up.

And then all of a sudden you're holding Bobby and you're like, holy shit. It's a weird. Yeah, it was, it was so weird. It was just like, I remember even the first, like, maybe, maybe, I don't know you get like your little pinky when they have the, um, is it the colostrum? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yes. So we had like, the, uh, it's the poo, right? No, no, what's the, um.

It's the boob. Yes. I was close. Yeah. Yeah. So, wrong in. But, um, but, um, but yeah. But, yeah.

But, then, close it. Well, actually. So, yeah. It's actually at the front end, guys. Even like doing that with the first feed and then like getting your finger there to like help them like swallow it and stuff. And then he's just like suck them on my finger like swallowing the stuff. I'm like, oh my God, what is going on? This is crazy.

And do they do they have any follow up test now that Bobby's in the world like after that or is that that that's it? No, well like we were thinking that as well because it all happened very quick on the day. Because we were in there six in the morning. Kate got told to push at 12 o'clock, like midday. Bobby was born at 12.09. And then we went home and had grilled on the couch at 6 o'clock at night. What? All in one day.

Just going, thanks for that. See you later. Day for it. Oh, my God. What a drag. Straight out. Did someone want to tap Kate on the shoulder? You can just, you can put your feet up and hospital for a night if you want.

The midwife is like encouraging it because she's like, I live around the corner. I'm going to come see you guys tomorrow anyway. It would be better otherwise Jake's going to have to go home. Kate's there at the pickup hospital. We're like, Dick Mook, I'm going to fuck up.

Yeah. We're out of here. Uber's on this way. You wasted time. I did priority delivery. I don't want to wait around for this shit. Home and a waste on suit. Let's go.

That is so quick. So literally 12 hours. You're in and out with a, your two became three and you got grilled. Well, we left, yeah, left the house that morning with two of us and come home with like three of us. And we'll just like, what the fuck.

Yeah. So that all happened very fast. So then even the, I think they had the court of pediatrician in to assess. Because we asked, we like, oh, we need to check up anything with the whole issue with like the baby's brain and everything. And like, oh, yeah, not really. Because we're technically being cleared. We're like, oh, surely there's some sort of. And they said, oh, yeah, we'll come over look.

And they were very quick. They were like, yep, everything's fine. Everything's all good. Sweet. So we were just like, yeah. Yeah, just so, like, it's happened so fast, but we're just so lucky. We felt so lucky because it's like everything that we were going through and like expected and thought and you mind races obviously to the worst case.

And then just him being like totally fine. We're just like, wow, oh my God, like, this is fucking incredible. And what, what's he like as a kid? He's a funny little dude. Is he like you? Yeah, he's not annoying or anything. Well, he looks like it. No, no, he's not like me, so he's nice, sad.

But he actually looks like me in baby photos. So now I'm starting to see he looks a little bit more like Kate as he grows up. But his head's huge. He's finally growing into his head, which is like kind of cool. But no, he's a chunky little boy. He's funny. He's, what, one and a half now. So he's at that age where he's like, I'm actually seeing it almost daily.

You know when you haven't seen like someone's baby for a while? You're like, oh, they're so big. They're changed teams. I'm seeing little things daily of just like him picking up new words, repeating stuff, working stuff out. And I'm just like, that age, we're just talking about when they're on the move and they can't understand you, so they can't be like, stop moving.

Yeah. But then also you're like on the cusp as well of it, of that where it's like you're going to see poppy learning new words and stuff like that in real time. When they become more interactive as well. Yeah. It's so cool. Like little Pokemon as they evolve.

At the moment, the only communication we have is, ha, hi, ha, hi. Yeah. With my poppy is my almost 12 months. But that's like amazing. Yeah.

I'm sure people, all like, what the fuck are they having a... There was a baby in our mother's group at six months was walking. Oh, wow. I'd get that testing. Yeah. Yeah.

She's not six months. She's two. Kids name's gout gout. No, it's... Yeah, six months. He's going to be. He's going to be. But yeah, it's cool.

Now that he's saying stuff, it's funny. He's like, mama, dad, da. And then he says them all on repeat now. We don't even ask him. He's in the pream. He's like, mama, dad, dad, nah, papa, ned. Our dog's name's Ned. It just says Ned flat out.

You mentioned before Kate wants three kids. Has that shifted at all now? Going through the first stage of having a child, now Bobby's one and a half. Has her idea of that change? Or is she still, I want three. Nah, she's still pretty hard on three. Yeah? And then we actually had a chat about, you know, like pretty soon about, like, you know, trying for a second one.

When should we come around? Yeah, whenever you're free, come around. Tell me if I'm doing anything wrong. What she can't chair like But yeah No she's still still pretty hard on three And I am as well But I think

I would actually People would probably think Given the stuff we went through In the pregnancy Like that would probably like Scare us off But I'm just like It actually just like

Well we're not gonna let that stop us Especially after coming through In the other end And Bobby being so like Amazing So we're like Nah look We're definitely

A little bit of nerves As far as that side of things goes Because obviously the health factor And everything Hopefully we don't have to go through the same thing But yeah Now that he's been here we're not like, oh, shit.

Yeah. We don't want anymore. I think we're still, we'll see how the second one goes, once the second one comes. And then call me again later with the third one. We'll get you for an update on the same one. I don't know if you found this at all, but when you go through something like that with any medical scare,

where you're like imagining an outcome where you're going to lose or potentially lose your child, you can't attend. Well, I did anyway. You're like, I'm going to love this child endlessly nonstop because I'm so grateful that they're here and they're healthy. But the reality is when you go. a newborn baby, it's really fucking hard. You're not going to love every second.

Oh, yeah. Did you struggle at all when you're being so grateful that it's ended up as an amazing result, Bobby's happy, he's healthy. But then when you have the moments of parenting with a newborn that you're just not going to love and you're like, oh, I hate that I'm not loving these moments because a couple months back I was thinking about potentially losing him. Yeah. Did you have those internal struggles at all?

Yeah, I did. I sort of got that, I guess you call, I don't know, like dad guilt almost like where I was was like, yeah, so incredibly happy and lucky and it's the best thing ever. And then when times were like hard or talk to get tough, then I'd reflect on it later and go, fuck, like, think about what you've got here. Like, it's the most amazing thing ever. And I actually was so lucky that it's such a good outcome. You know what I mean?

So that hard moment or that hard thing at the time, you think it's the worst thing ever. But it's just like. When it's two in the morning and you're trying to get it back to sleep, like no one's. Yeah. And then even like relationship stuff wise as well, like me and Kate are like, you know, probably stronger for going through that like that. shit period and then even after like everyone's sleep deprived like everyone's annoyed so those little tiny arguments that you might have a little things that shit you are like probably amplified

by five or ten but yeah there were times where it was real hard and then i think what helped me especially in that first week i heard everyone of my friends or family members that did have kids heard the classic oh you just wait you just wait so i wait for what i'm not telling you I was like, what's going on? I'm already anxious. I'm freaking out. I've been through enough already. So I was like, I think we built that up and almost didn't have time to think about that too much with all the stuff in the pregnancy going on.

But as it got closer to, I built up like that first week. I just had this weird thought, which sounds a little bit stupid. I'm like, just get through the first week. And we'll see how that goes. That's a pretty, I would say, you're pretty right there. Like, and then week by week. Yeah. And then I built that first week.

week up so much. And he fucking slept for like 18 hours for the first week every day. And I was like, this is a breeze. And then the second week I was like, oh. When you think you got to dial, and then all of a sudden the next week they're like,

don't sleep. Yeah, then just real hard. I mean, Kate does an amazing job. She's fucking grouse. Like she's, yeah, she's amazing.

Like the strongest, like I said, physically and mentally, but she does an amazing job with Bobby, just like a natural, you know, which certainly does help. But,

and I was lucky. I had that, I guess, connection straight away with him. Like, a couple of my mates actually struggled early on. They found it hard with, like, not getting, like, emotion out of them all that that sort of stuff. And they're like, oh, they felt a weird, like, sort of distant for, not for like the first six months or so, which I didn't have that. I had it, like, straight away, which I was so lucky for.

I was like, I'd fucking love this. It's weird, isn't it? When you get a baby that laughs and a baby that doesn't. And when the baby's not laughing, you're like, am I not funny? Yeah. Oh, trust you, I'm used to no laughs in my actual life. So I was prepared for that. She was, yeah, he was, yeah.

I built that up over the years. When Bobby was born, what sort of time did you take off? So I had, I think it was like three weeks, three weeks off. Yeah. And then even going back, like I was sort of like, wasn't back completely. Yeah. And then it was just sort of like, sort of half, gone back to work sort of like a half the amount after that three weeks. But three weeks fully off, fully at home and there, which was, yeah, which was run real.

And I think a lot of people like, those. couple of weeks early on, you were saying you got that bond immediately. But I remember with Oscar, yes, he was difficult, but it really took me a long time to actually find that bond with him. So I can imagine like finding it early doors, it must be such a benefit compared to like having to them play catch up because you've got to go back to work and all sorts of stuff. Yeah, yeah. No, I was pretty, I was pretty lucky that I had that. It's really good. I just find it hard, especially when you talk about like going back to work. I found it real hard to like juggle everything. And still sort of do.

I've sort of half worked it out now, but not like completely, but still find it hard to like, because I am a bit of a stress head and worry a bit, I'm like, oh, am I doing enough as far as providing? Am I being a dad, but they've got to be a husband as well or being a mate?

And I find I used to get in my own head about doing one thing and I felt like I was sacrificing another instead of just enjoying the thing in front of you, that one thing, whether it be like a dad or a husband or a mate or whatever, back in my mind, I'm thinking like I'm worried about the next step, I worry about the next work decision or this.

And it's just like, I did find that really hard early on juggling those three or the four things and constantly worrying, am I doing enough? Am I doing this right? Am I doing this? I don't know. What about this? What about this? Instead of just focused on the one thing.

It's really hard to be in the moment. Like I do the same thing. Well, I'm like, instead of just being there, you're like, what's next? Or what am I not doing over here? And fighting, like, even like for me now with seven and a five-year-old, every week, I feel like that balance changes so much. So when you have your first kid, it's like, if you put all your eggs in that one basket, am I neglecting now?

It's, it is tricky. Yeah. It is tricky. You sort of, oh, I'll do anyway. I just to do my own head in, like, just constantly going around in circles. But then it's a bit of a cliche, but it's like it does, it does go quick, you know, it goes very quick. I'm probably one and a half now.

And I was like, fuck. Like, not that I've, I think I've managed pretty well to sort of be, be there for as much as I can and experiencing everything with him, which is great. But it, yeah, if you're not. you're not there, like, it goes very quick. When you have in those moments where you're struggling and you're doubting if you're doing enough and all the different areas of your life, how would you deal with that? Would you just internalize those thoughts until they faded?

Or did you have a coping mechanism? No, look, I'm pretty open with Kate about it. My wife, I always speak about everything. Kate and my brother, I tell my brother, probably boy too much. So he knows everything about me. He can probably answer this one for me, actually. Give him a call. Actually, I've got him on the phone.

But being open about it and talking about it Like for example if my mate come to me with the same issue I would know all the right things to say Yeah But then I wouldn't do it for myself So that I'd laugh at myself and go What the fuck's wrong with that? Like you know how to fix it

You know what to do But I wouldn't do it It's almost like When you were thinking about You as a dad What were the moments Or what were the thoughts That you were really struggling with

If you were questioning Whether you were doing enough just like, you know, might have a day out, like on our own, like give a mum a break. We'll go have a day out on our own. And this is very early on and we'll just go out or like whatever. We'd go to the park or just a day out anyway. And then I just think like sometimes like now I'm like, I really enjoy those moments. They're grouse.

But I would always think like, oh, am I doing this right? Am I doing this right? And we're not doing enough. And then I'd be like, oh, and then we would go spend that day out as a family and go do this. And I'm like, oh, shit, I've got work to think about. I've got work that like. And I'm thinking about, oh, could it be doing this. I could be doing that.

and I just I found it hard to go hey fuck work for a second just relax or like don't worry about that for a second and then I spoke to Kate about this as well and she was the same and then we we said even ourselves like we're separate to work we're like we need to do something for ourselves you know me and her because we almost forgot what it was like to be just us because you've got this kid that's just like yeah so we're like we need to try and remember to do something for ourselves as well

because we didn't get we haven't got like early on we didn't get a heap amount of help it's not that my parents didn't want to Kate's parents didn't want her. It's just that Kate was, you know, pretty adamant on doing a lot of it on her own. So I was like, mate, nothing wrong with putting your hand up for help. And we can go enjoy a night out or day out. And yeah. Yeah, it's, it becomes this big balancing and juggling act, really, where it's like, I know you, you, you as a unit, you want to try and do all those things yourself without having to go, hey, I need some help when realistically, they say it takes a village for a reason, right? But also, I don't know if you guys are the same. But what are, what

been a couple of weeks and Laura and I haven't had sex. I'm like, well, is it, the relationship's falling apart. Are we just friends? Are we? Are we,

do we even love each other? Three men sitting around. You have me? Yeah, three men sitting around complaining about sex. Yeah, and Laura's like, what are you talking about?

What's wrong with you? And I'm like, I don't know. Nobody loves me in this house. Are we getting a divorce? Because I can come here. Come here. Come on.

You get a bit of intimacy in the next day. Like, what's they worried about? God, gee, life's pretty good. I feel amazing. Get a little pep in your stem. I know when Matt's had sex. He fucking skips through the hall right down and he's like,

I did it. Hi, yeah, yeah, high five. I did it. I come in with flowers and I'm like, some for you, some of you. Am I doing enough? You got a flower. I'm a great dad. Everything's great.

Life's great. But it's the, I think it's one of the easiest parts of your life to neglect because you take it for granted, right? I would never take you to grow up. Are you? For anyone wondering, Ash is talking to his penis right now? I clean you meticulously for a reason. But you know, you're like, if I don't give attention to work, like, you can't not, right?

Otherwise, you lose your job, you don't make money. And then it's easy to them prioritize your kid because you're like, fuck, time is running out. And before I know, he's going to grow up and he's going to be a toddler. And so I've got to like give that energy. And then sometimes the last thing you give energy too is your relationship. Yeah, yeah. No, that's right. And then it's actually bang on.

Like, I would think that those two things, like, fuck one or the other. It's like, hold on if you're getting this. And then you go even maybe one or two outside of that, your best man or your mom and dad you haven't spoken to in a while. And I've got, fuck, I've got those people in my life as well. I know. So it's hard to, it'd be hard for anyone, but I think I like, like a sip of fire. Like I worry a little bit about just about everything.

But I think it's just like, like I said, I know the right things to do. I know the right things to. There's no, like, perfect way to do it, especially as you guys would know with, like, parenting. If there was, we'd all just be doing the exact same thing. There would be no need for this podcast. Here's the book and go, good luck. Don't tell everyone that we no need for this podcast. Yeah.

But, I don't know. I think what's this helping me lately is just sort of been, I don't know, just like open about everything. Like to my brother or Kate or even just like our mates and other people have different styles and different things. But like not like in a judgmental way. People just go, I would try this, we try this and just been open about everything and then kind of helped.

Yeah, I found that like early days of parenting, It was like, whose baby slept, whose baby didn't sleep. But now I feel like the friend groups that we have is like, have you tried this? You should try doing this this way. Yeah. It's become a lot less braggy about your kids sleeping through and much more like, oh wait, your kid's not eating. Have you tried this? Yeah, yeah.

Have you not noticed? I don't know if you. Oh, brag away. Match is like, well, my kids are pleased. No athletes. It's almost reassuring in a way when you hear like, oh, like my kid didn't get to sleep. Oh, you guys too? Oh, your kid didn't get sleep?

Same. Me, I've slept in years. We're not the only ones that are fucking everything up. I know, no, no. It's like, yeah, it's nice to hear when people are struggling too. It's a nice way to put it, sort of. When you talk about your relationship, I did wonder, I did think to myself when I watched some of your videos, I'm like, are these helping the situation? Yeah, well, Kate does a great job by getting involved in a lot of the videos.

Oh, I have. Yeah, she's well. funnier than me. By choice or... Well, now, in early days, like seven years ago or something. I think a few videos was like me genuinely annoying the shit out of it. Can you talk us through the soup video? Oh, that's a goal.

Oh, that's an old one. I just... I don't even know how that started. Those listening, Chok does a video where he's at the drive-thru with Kate, here's why. And is it asking me if they've got any soup? Can I just get a medium... Do you have big buckets of soup?

Can I just get... Sorry, can I just get a medium-strong... Have it a bucket? of soup? Sorry? We don't have very enough enough. Oh, that's all right. Can I just get?

Can I just get, um, do you have any soup? Stop, Jake. I'm so sorry. Um, and can I just get... This the big bucket of soup would be nice. Jake, I'm so sorry. Jake, can you actually stop? It's embarrassing.

She keeps smacking me. Just gone, shut up. And she's like, I'm so sorry. And he drives through or one particular? Uh, I can't remember what drive through it was. I think we might have been at like Ringwood one day. Macdonald's, Ringwood. Shout out Macdonalds.

Ringwood. But, um, they didn't have any fucking suit. Actually, you guys suck. Get some sit on the menu. Yeah, you should have asked for some mixer.

Oh, that's my crouse. But, but yeah, so she plays along with it well, like, I think, and it's funny because,

like, I'll annoy the shit over her and would set these videos and stuff. And then people might see us out and something and go, like, Kate sort of gets a little bit annoyed

when people go, oh, how do you put up with him? And she's like, well, fuck, like he's not like that 24, seven.

If he was, I'd have to kick him out. Like, people see a one minute video of us and just label that, oh, well, he's a prick and she swears a lot. And it's just like, well, that's not us.

People always say to me, do you hate your wife? That's what they say to me? No, really. And I just go, what gave it away? If you utilizes them. But, yeah,

I mean, I don't really care. I used to care so much about what people thought of me. But now I'm like, whatever. Like, they can think that. I know that my wife loves me. I hope. Yeah, you're like, which camera do I look at? I was like, you love me?

Which camera do I look at? Love me! Love me. It's not for the faint-hearted, though, on content creating. I think people don't give us enough credit. Nah, she, um... Let's cut this bit. I wonder what everyone's doing at their day jobs.

Nah, she does one. I'm not, fellas, am I right? Hey, fellas, am I right? What about us? What about... You know what I mean? Look, like, it's the first time meeting you in person. And I was a little bit reluctant at first because, you know, what I've seen of you is footage that I would rather forget.

Nice. I like that. I don't think everyone's ever given you such a good compliment. That's a good compliment. I'll take that. I was thinking back to a time when I saw a video of the two of you on holidays together. You're in LA and a bar. We were working.

Oh, man, ash. We were working. That was a very prestigious busy work trip. Yes. It was a business trip. This is said video. I have to press play. You can hold it if you like.

Like, Oh, well. You look good. Oh, yeah. So good. I don't really, no,

I was exactly nine months ago and I'll just give a bird. Yeah, it's kind of like turning me on in a way. Like, there's nothing wrong with that. You're a good kisser.

Thank you. Can you just set the scene? So we went to... We can reenact it if you want. I mean... We went to L.A. to shoot some commercials with Shaquille O'Neill.

A couple of lucky fellas over there. Shack. I call him. As we refer to it. As we refer to it. You may call him Shaq. Diesel. Diesel.

Diesel. We call him Diesel. Which was an amazing experience. But this was the first night that I think we'd all flown in. No one had really slapped. We all kicked the cans. Went to a karaoke bar. So, Chok, set the scene. You're at a karaoke bar.

Yeah. So Kick of All Boys are up there and they're really, really good at karaoke. Like really good. Unbelievable. And then Ash says me, goes, are we getting up there? They go, yeah. yeah, let's do it. And I wanted to sing Missy Higgins Scar

because I know every word and it's a terrific song and everybody loves that. I can see you love it as well. I'm hearing you over there, humming it, it's great. So I was like, sweet. Ash goes, no, not singing that. He goes, we're singing, what's that song?

Shallow by Lady Gaga and Reverend Cooper. Yeah, I'm like, oh, I don't know the words. And he goes, oh, I know every word, follow me. We get up there, the thing starts playing, the little teleprompter, and he doesn't know any of the words. And then we're up there and just carrying on. I'm like, we're losing them, we're losing them, we've got to do something.

And he's like, what? It's tough, isn't it? Yeah, people are you. One of the toughest gigs of my life. And then we've got to do something. He goes, what? I'm like, kiss me. And then we kiss each other and then the crowd goes wild or then we're best on ground.

That's it. Went in doubt to start kissing. We were full open mouth, though, as well. All right. Yeah, you're really good. I enjoyed it a lot, but that's fun. It was the talk of the town. And then Kate's like, how's your trip going?

Yeah, it's like, good. We actually hit it from our wife. We actually hit it from our wife. for a while. We hit it from our wives for a while. And then eventually it was like, I think you put it up on socials. And it was just like...

Oh, yeah. Which I shouldn't have... The memories. But yeah, that was fun. That was a good little boys trip. It's just a... I bet it was. Guys on school camp.

I bet you had a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah, it was cute. I'm here holding down the floor at the podcast studio by myself, wondering when Ashley's going to return. I know. It was like six...

And he's out here. Kiss another voice. Literally I was out there cheating on you. We're six. content creators caught in one change room. It was a nightmare. It's not like fart. Hey, when Bobby is all grown up and he's flown the nest, he's the longer living at home,

what is the one thing you want him to remember about the house he grew up in? Oh, good question. I think it's just like that he's just always loved. We're trying to just create a like a fun, wholesome household. And just like, not only just always love, just to be always, always feel comfortable to speak up and tell us how he feels. I think I wasn't always like that, especially growing up. Now I'm an open book, I'll tell you anything. Really?

Yeah, I think that's one thing. I think this is a place, this is a safe place, happy place, and comfortable to tell us anything, you know, because I'd rather them do that than keep it all inside. For sure. I love that. Yeah, I think that's probably, yeah. Chuck, it's been a pleasure.

Yeah, thank you. No, thank you. Thank you, chocolate bear. Chocolate bear, nice. Hey, I hear what you're saying. I like it. No, thanks for having me, lads. Hopefully, I hope that was well.

I really enjoyed it. We actually didn't record any of that. Oh, nice. Yeah, no. Thank you, mate, for coming in. It's been a while and I'm glad that it worked out. Yeah, absolutely. No, I loved it.

I want to chew your ear off. Yeah, I know. Good luck with the baby number two and number three when that happens. Oh, yeah, that'll happen. I'll keep you posted once that happens. Thank you. Please. I want to watch.

Watch them grow up or watch it. Yeah, yeah, okay. Thoughts me. No, I want to watch them from conception. Okay, done it. I'm trying to help you here, bro. No, I'll schedule and I'll keep your post. I've seen Poppy grow up from womb to one.

All right. From womb to one. Okay, okay. He's getting hot to you. That goes from womb to one. Yeah, okay. Don't ever say that again. All right, now get out.

Okay, see you. Matt, it is nice to see the other side of what we call the Aussie Lariken. Yeah, I mean, I only know Chock as. I mean, I mean there's no disrespect to Chok, but as him being like, hey, babe, hey. Yeah, yeah. That's the version that I know. And so to have him sit in front of us and talk about such a serious topic is so different to what I know of the guy. But seeing him speak so vulnerably, these are conversations that I think are so important because there is so much hurt, so much pain that people hold on to, that being able to talk about it openly will benefit so many listeners, but also I know for Chok, it's.

It's such a relief to be able to talk about it so freely. Yeah, thank you, Chuck, for coming in and being so vulnerable because it isn't, it isn't easy. And behind the laughs, yeah, people are going through some stuff. So if you've enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. Subscribe. A couple of words, five stars. It'll be lovely.

Or you can join us on social media. Where, Matt? Two doting dads. There is a TikTok. There is an Instagram. There is also a YouTube on a YouTube shorts and last, but definitely not least. Actually, it is the least. There is a Facebook group.

It's the most. It's of the social media. It's the least amount of people doing the most amount of work. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Facebook group, 5,000.

Shout out to those members because we love them. We do. Let's be honest. And we'll see you guys on Wednesday. See you. Hi. Two Doting Dance podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and the connections to land, sea and community.

We pay our respects to their elders, past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. This episode was recorded on Gatigle Land.