Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash - #EP 203 - Matty Fahd + Matty J + Ash

Episode Date: February 8, 2026

You might recognise Matty Fahd from his 17 seasons on Gogglebox, but he's also a father-of-two caught up with the boys during a long week of solo-parenting while Sarah is away. Matty opens up about how he was raised, how it's affected his parenting style, how he gave away his adrenaline-junky lifestyle after having kids and the anxiety he faces as a parent of two boys. Matty admits while he might not have height on his side, he has a big heart and some larger than life stories to tell. If you need a shoulder to cry on:  Two Doting Dads Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/639833491568735/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheTwoDotingDads  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twodotingdads/  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@twodotingdads  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We have a guest who, surprise! Wow! They are, well, I would call them, refer to them as the king of TV. Wow, that is a big statement. Go on, what do you mean? Well, I've been watching him on TV for many, many, many years. So he's your king? Well, I think surely he's many, many kings to many viewers around Australia.

Yes, actually, how long has he been on that show for? 17 seasons, yes, we are talking about Maddie Fahad. Are you talking to yourself? No. Yes. He's been on 17 seasons of Gogglebox. I wonder what he thought of, I don't know, any of my seasons of Bachelor, Dancing with the Stars, I'm a Celebrity.

It depends on how many times you cried. Full Monty. I cry. Every single season. Yeah, so he loved. It's in my contract. I was like, well, everyone gather around. Manning Jay's going to cry on TV again.

I wonder if he's watched your season of TV. He hasn't because it was shared according to you. Why are you making me look like an asshole? You're making yourself look like an arseller. Well, do you know who's not an asshole? asshole. Maddie Fahard. Well said. Thank you. He's a father of two. He's the Gogglebox star and now the podcaster called The Dads and the Docs. He talks about growing up in an immigrant family, meeting his beautiful wife, Sarah. That's right, Matt. He also talks about what it's like

raising two boys. Also, just a note to say that this episode does talk about miscarriage. If you're not in a space to hear that, the topic of miscarriage is at the end of the episode. But there's plenty of the laughs and information that Maddie does share with us about his life. parenting and what it's like right now while his wife is away and he's got two kids for seven days God what a dad let's get into it welcome back to three doting dads I am Maddie J I'm Ash and I'm Maddie F and this is a podcast all about parenting it is the good it is the bad and the relatable and like we have been giving advice lately but let's stop right now we try not to give advice you don't want to be advice monsters yeah we're not

but at the same time we don't want to be held accountable really The small print. Yeah. So I guess if any advice comes from myself, Ash, ignore it. But from yourself, please. Okay. You're more than work. I'm full of incredible wisdom.

That's what we love. I don't know who to look at because you both weren't the same thing. You're both named Maddie. I love how he threw Maddie F in there. See what he did there. Yeah, I like that. It's very good. I like that.

Miss the memo, obviously. Ash, if you want to actually take a hike. Yeah. I look like, you know, like at Rockerstedford's, how they have the guys all in black that do like the curtains. Yeah. This is like, he's the tech. I work in IT.

You look like that guy. Matt, we always start off our episodes with a question. Yeah. The question is, do you remember the most trouble you got in as a child? Yes, I do. I remember that vividly because I was generally... Did you kill? I didn't kill anyone.

We've had people kill animals until we were killing animals. We've had a bit of murder. We've had murder on this segment. No, I haven't killed anyone. So I feel like then we were... Yeah, that's what someone who killed someone would say. I swear I haven't killed anyone. So I think I was a pretty good kid.

I'm the youngest of four. My oldest sister was the absolute rebel child. So I think comparative to her, the rest of us kids were pretty good. She was the eldest daughter of a Lebanese family who did all the wrong thing. She became an artist. My parents wanted to become a lawyer. What kind of art did she do? She did photography.

Oh, that's nice? Very contemporary. like abstract sort of stuff as well, never like, you know, classical painting or anything like that. She was shooting nudes. Yeah. She's got tattoos all over her. She had a shaved head at one point. She just did all the things that, you know, my parents never wanted to do. And they had her quite young as well. Does that mean they were a little bit more relaxed on you? Because they were like, oh, it's, you know. You just need to be just below that bad. Exactly. So they kind of got more and more chill as time went on. And because I was the youngest, they'd also become a little bit more worldly by that point and kind of

kind of understood the world a little bit better, had gotten more mature and older themselves. You also kind of give up as a parent. Yeah. They might have just given up. Who knows? Well said. Well said. And I say that as a mom who raised five children.

By the fit, she was like, oh, whatever. You just scraped in. So I was pretty good. But then in year 10, my school finished. And all my mates went to one particular school after that. And my parents moved home. And we moved kind of to the other part. to Sydney and at the same time they wanted to put me into a better school because I had seen

that academically I actually cared and I wanted to do well but I didn't want to change school and so they kind of coerced me into going into this school they're like oh just go for like the interview like they're not you're not going to get in it's going to be really difficult they're only accepting five kids da da da da da da da went for the interview and got in and so then I'll never forget the day because I was in the middle of doing a shit and my dad walks in can I swear on this Like, we like 90% of our content is talking about shit. So this is great. They're on brand.

So an insight into a ethnic family, zero privacy. Just like straight in while I'm mid shit and was like, hey, you got in. And I was like, got into what? And they're like, the school. And I'm like, oh, that's amazing. I'm not going. You just told me I had to go to the interview. My dad's like, you're fucking going.

And I'm like, no, I'm not going. And he's like, you're definitely going. You got in. Anyway, so we had this massive blowup. Because he told me, just go for the interview. If you get in, you can make the choice. I got in and then I didn't have a choice. He lied.

Right? And so I then went from, okay, I'm going to school with all my mates to now I'm going to be the new kid at this new school. And on top of that, the school had a reputation of it. Like, I went to like a really normal Catholic school before that. It wasn't fancy. It was nothing. And then this school had a bit of prestige about it.

And in my mind, I was like, I'm going to school with all these rich kids. It's not me. Like, you know, I don't want to be there. You know. And so I then at that point decided to like, that's it. mess it with me. I'm going to rebel against you and make you guys really uncomfortable as a, at a 14, 15 year old. And I told him, you send me that school, I'm going to get myself expelled. I'm going to fight people. You threatened me. Wow. Like, I was losing my mind. And up until that

point, I was doing well at school. I was never like, I would never say like I was a studious kid. Like, I always had problems listening and my reports would always be like, somehow Matt is doing quite well because he doesn't, he distracts others. But I'd go home and study my ass off. But then at school, I'd really struggle to listen for long periods of time. It was more social for you. Yeah, it was social, but I did well academically and I cared about what I, what I was getting and I wanted to get into uni and all that stuff. So I was self-motivate. They didn't have to tell me to study. That's such a dilemma for your parents of like, is he going to like follow through with this thread or is he just bluffing us? And so then I, while I was still at my old school,

decided, I'm not going to come home after school and just get the shit out of them. And I, I headed, I headed to Kings Cross. My sisters live there. My older sisters live there. And I was like, I called him. I'm like, don't tell him. I'm coming. We're going to go and hang out in Kings Cross. My sister's like, yeah, don't worry. We won't tell him. Obviously, my sister's like, just so you know, don't worry, like he's with me. Meanwhile, I'm thinking my parents are shitting bricks. And they're not because my sister's...

She snitched. Yeah, of course. Of course. Again, as an adult, I'm like, she had to snitch. Yeah, yeah. My parents would have been losing their mind. So I was doing stuff like that, not coming home after school when I was meant to and started to rebel a little bit and then got into school with no real intention of getting expelled. But I felt like... You're too nice to get expelled, dude.

Yeah, when I was kind of that 17, 16 age, I used to like, I didn't mind throwing punches. I was like, I was always, I haven't been blessed with a lot of height. So I felt like people wanted to always mess with me. And as a smaller kid, I'd be like, going to mess with me, then we're going to go. And then people kind of learned not to mess with you anymore. So like, I kind of, my dad was always like, never hit anyone, never hurt anyone, but protect yourself because, you know, obviously he knew people were going to come out. me. And so, and I say the same thing to my kids. I'm like, you never to hit anyone, but I don't want you to

you to, you know, you've got to do what you got to do to, you know, if someone's going to hurt you. And so I went to this school and going to a new all boys high school, I don't know if it's still like this now, but I think of it. It was like going to prison. It was everyone wanted to test you. And I just come from a school where I'd been with my mate since kindergarten. I knew everyone. It was all happy days. And now I was the new kid. And I'll never forget coming into my first mass class. and I sat down next to a kid I don't know. I was like, is that free? He's like, yeah, you can sit there.

This is, this is like prison. Yeah. This is prison, yeah. And the kid in front of me, who I'd never met, hadn't had a conversation with, turns around, grabs my brand new calculator from day one, puts it under his seat and cracks the screen. And no, they were expensive.

Yeah, one of those mathematical ones. Yes. I still have no idea how to use. They're like, 80 bucks. And in my mind, I'm like, keep it together, first day, first day. And obviously I didn't. And so, that then led into like a full-on brawl at lunchtime.

And so, you know, got suspended, got in a lot of trouble. My parents are like, oh my God, what the hell have we done to this kid? He's following through. Did you win the fight or was it? I mean, you're in high school, so not really. It doesn't get too far before a teacher comes out. Yeah, kind of in detention. So yeah, I remember that and that was kind of a lot of, there was a few weeks of that at the

new school, like just trying to like hold my ground and then, you know, find your people. and then once I had my crew, it was kind of like, well, it's good now. Like, we've tested him and he's now got his crew. Wow. Yeah, and I don't think I, now as an adult, I look back and think, and put myself in my parents' shoes. And I did a lot better in my end of year exams because of that school. Do I think it was a better school than my last one?

I don't know. There's academically, yes. Maybe not culturally, if that's what, you know, was happening in the kids and it was a bit of a prison. But I kind of go, thank God they sent me there, right? Because it got me into the degree that I wanted to get into. that led me to the career that I had and yeah things could have been different without it so I appreciate them now but at the time I didn't yeah and it really gave me an insight into you know people

say that's just luck and there's and other people like oh there's no such thing as luck and I get both of those arguments right you have to work damn hard there's hardly very little luck in life but luck is being born into a family that love you and care for you and I've always had that and so that level of kind of just that little tweak in my life that caused a little bit of angst or, you know, anxiety kind of started to push me. And it gave me an insight into, okay, when the upbringing or something at home is wrong, it can really steer a kid the wrong way really quickly because, yeah, I felt like in my mind I was raging and that wasn't me and I could have taken a really different path.

Yeah, you get home from school, you've had a fight at lunchtime. What does your dad say? He would ask, did you hit him first? Yeah. And I would say no. The capital, dad. Look at this. Cool.

So he's, he would always be okay with me protecting muscle. Fair enough. If that was my child, I'd be like, fuck yeah. Yeah. Do you protect him harder? I've still, I've still got a scar on my knuckle. Oh, wow. I had surgery on it when I was like 17.

Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Don't mess with men. Yeah. Don't, don't mess with people's calculators. People think, like, like you said, like, I couldn't imagine it. It's like, I can't imagine myself doing that, but like 17, 18 years.

I know, you're so nice and friendly. If we make it to this podcast without someone being punched. It'll be a miracle. Yeah. What was this, like, just like final question on that. If there was punishment to be dealt out, what was the punishment? Look, I don't know. Like, it was, you know, you're not going out on the weekend type thing.

Like, I think, again, my parents were relatively chill by the time I came along. There wasn't. That was just like, whatever. Yeah. Like, you're not going out. And you know, and you're not going to get money that week, pocket money that way to do whatever you wanted to do. Like, what else are they going to do really? Yeah.

Now, Maddie, we need to congratulate you because you are solo parenting. And I know the bar is very low for men at the moment in terms of parenting. But you are, how many days in? Day two. Day two. Okay. You look great. Sarah, your beautiful wife, is currently overseas.

So you're looking after both children by yourself. Yeah. The bags under my eyes probably give it. Unbelievable stuff. How does he do it? Wow. It is so funny because this is the reaction that is happening in my life over the last 48 hours. Well, you did a little story update before you came here. Did you get much of a reaction? People outraged or are they? No, I'm just getting lots of messages at the moment because, and I'm obviously being facetious and like lady people know that everything's all right, guys. Like, it's not the first time I've had to take care of kids on my own, but like it is really funny that I was working

in corporate for 18 years. And for a lot of the time, I've been at dad, I was working in corporate. And it meant I was flying everywhere all the time. And I'd be away for four or five days. And it wouldn't be a blimp on Sarah's social calendar, social network in her vocabulary, in anyone's vocabulary. Yet when it's the other way around, everyone's, I'm getting messages daily. Yeah, how you coping? Is everything all right? And like, my parents are like calling me several. Sarah's dad called me, who never calls me. He's called me. He's like, I'm just checking in on you. I'm like, Sam, everything's good, man, don't worry. It's that generation because it would have never happened back then. Maybe he was just ringing you to see what it's like.

He's like, I've never done it. So what's it like? And I don't think I even come across as like, you know, the type of dad that's not that involved with my kids. Like, I'm heavily involved with my kids. I'm always with my kids. So I find it even funnier that people are like, oh, Matt, he's like, he's going to struggle here. And don't get me wrong. Sarah has never gone away for seven days. The most, I think we've done is two or three days without her. So the kids have never been without her for this long. So it is something new, which is why kind of having a laugh about it. And there's a party in me like, I don't know where this goes day four, day five.

Are the kids going to start to go crazy because they haven't seen their mom? And there's only, like, my littlest just says, Mommy on the plane. I'm like, I don't know how long she can be on the plane for. But it seems okay to know that she's on the plane. But whether she's coming back or not after like three days, we'll see. Are you doing the FaceTime at all? Because it's hard because when you're the person away, you're like, I really miss my kids.

And you really want to have that time on the face time. Three seconds in, they're doing like, my kids love the filter. The filters. Oh, that's the worse and it causes a fire. That's easy. All right, take the giraffe filter off. Yeah. I was just like, at one point I was just like a moving head.

Yeah, yeah. The poo, the poo emoji. My son loves that poo emoji. And I'm like, oh, Malik, I just want to talk to you about take off the thing. I can hear Sarah in the background going, Malik, take off the thing. This is when I'm calling, when I'm away. And so it's funny because Sarah called yesterday I had FaceTime. They didn't do any filters.

I actually wanted to see her. And I was like, hey, even I call you guys. You just want to do filters and play with the phone area of shit. And mom's on. She's like, hi, Mom, we miss you. Malick said, I miss you, Mom. And I'm like, what? You know what's said that to me?

How is Sarah coping? I think she, well, look, it's really, everyone's like, how are you going? I'm like, well, she's from her end, she's kind of just gotten off a plane and landed. It's hardly been any time. Because it's like a, she's in Paris. So it's like a 20-something-hour transit. She had a stopover in Singapore. She's landed there.

She's had one day there overnight, and now it's like two in the morning for her. So she's not even had like a proper day yet. And so, but she's loving it. Like she's done a couple of stories like, oh my God, I just got to walk into a store

and it took me two seconds and just grabbed something. And that she's walking through the airport and she's hearing phantom children call for her. Oh. Yeah. The phantom children. I've like heard it one.

But like, so. It's like when you're not wearing your eye watch and you feel it vibrate. Yes. It happens to me now. It's like, yeah. Or if there's like a TV commercial and there's a child like cries on this TV commercial, you're like, oh my God, where are the kids?

Yeah. So I think she's kind of still desensitizing from not having the kids like nagging at her all time. And like I feel for her, but like, one of the number one of the things that come out of Sarah's mouth at home is you have two parents. Why is this my problem? Like they go to, I'll be next to my son and we'll be doing something together and he'll just leave.

And I just hear Sarah go, well, ask you dad. Oh. So bad. And then Malick comes and I was like, what do you ask me? She's like, oh, I told her I was hungry. I'm like, I'm sitting right next to you, mate. Just ask me. I literally just had this.

Why are you asking Mom? She's trying to chill out in there. Just tell me. April was working in the office with the door shut. Macy comes out of her room and heads towards the door. I'm like, where are you going? And she's like, I just got to ask me something. And I was like, okay, but like, don't go in there.

Like, don't if you can't. You know, and it completely ignored me. And then I sort of walked away to the kitchen. And then April was like, babe. And I walked in, she's like, she just said, I'm hungry. I was like, are you for real? You walk straight past me. We had an interaction even about it.

What is it? And all week I've been so far for like the two days, Malik, my oldest, he's just been going. He's been saying to me, that's not how mum does it. Oh, that's different to how mum does it. Or mom does it this way. Hey, don't forget this. Hey, make sure, like, he's like guiding me through every step of the way, which is really cute and funny. But he'll be like, this morning.

good example, gave him porridge with maple syrup on top. There's a real, there are so many particular way. In my household, I make the porridge. Now you've started something. Oh, here we go. I didn't know this is a passion point. Oh, God. Like one, one thing that I do that Laura doesn't do, and I'm like, Laura, just do it.

It makes life easier. I put a little ice cube in the porridge. Oh, wow. Ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. Madie Jay. So it cools down just a little bit faster because otherwise you're blowing. on it and it's really annoying.

And also just the added bit of water in there keeps it nice and moist, you know what I'm saying? You do love both. Wow. I'm going to try that tomorrow. You've just woken up a beast. I'm going to try it and I'm going to film it and I'm tagging you in it. But Laura won't do it.

And the kids are like, but where's the ice cube mum? She's like, forget about it. We're doing it my way. No, it's got time for ice cubes. I've walked down, just stayed at his place and walked down the stairs like 530 and then we're matts in the kitchen. He's like, don't look at me. to how did you do the porridge wrong?

So apparently there was too much milk. Daddy, there's too much milk in this one today and there's too much in there. And you've put maple syrup. I was like, didn't you want maple syrup? You love maple syrup. He's like, mum, normally does rice malt syrup. Oh, God. I'm like.

FaceTime, Mum, I want to know I'm hungry. I'm like, I got honey. Did you just put honey in no rice malt syrup? I'm like, okay, cool. I'll know that from next time. Thank you. And then like on the way out the door. he's like, check my school bag and make sure everything's in there, including my hat.

And I was like, I think you can do that. Why don't you check your bag and see if everything's? And he's like, okay. And then he goes and looks into it. So it's like, there's like these lessons also being learned because Sarah's so patient and I definitely don't have the same patience as her. So I'll be like, go check your own bag, me. Yeah.

Like if your hat's not in there too bad. Or if you forgot your lunch, I put it there. If you took it out, that's your own problem. Yeah. So like, there's a bit of that happening this week. And they're like, oh, man, when's mom coming back? Has anything gone wrong? This is a safe place here.

You can... Not yet. It's all really been smooth sailing. I have to be honest. They've been so good. Like, even yesterday I took them to swimming practice. And then I went and had lunch with my mum afterwards. And so just my youngest.

My son was at school, my oldest. And my mum was like, he's so well behaved when, like, Sarah's not here. He's just really true. Don't tell her that. Yeah, that's been out immediately. And it's true. Like, normally my little one's a little bit of a menace. and he's just been such a good kid and doing everything and eating his dinner and just, yeah,

he's been so sweet and cute. So it's been really nice. It is kind of true, though. Like, Avery was like, how did you go? I'm like, oh, it was really tough. Really tough. And meanwhile, it was like, that was sweet. But it makes you think, God, those single parents who are doing this every single day, every week, every month, every year, far out.

Yeah, and I'm coming in like a little bit of, like, amping it up as well, which if you're doing it every day, day, you can't do that. Like, I'm, I'm conscious that they're having this great time because I'm pulling out all stops. I'm like, this is my audition now. Like, I'm getting in places where I'm not normally there every day. And so, like, bath time, which is not normally me, I've, like, I brought the DJ decks in the other day. And we had a full set in the bathroom and the kids were losing it. And so, like, in the car, weirdly, my kids are into the song, um, chop suey by system of the down at the moment. Oscar and I this morning we'll listen to Chop Suey. Yeah. And so they're requesting chopping chop suey in the car on the way to school so we're in the morning like wake up

gotta go to get up wait until they hear toxicity jeez yeah yeah yeah what's going to happen Sarah's going to come back and they're going to have bar time and I go this is not how dad does it yeah like uh where's tiesto at like the four minute mark if it helps I've got a nightlight there's also doubles as a strobe at home oh let you borrow that really get the full effect you'll walk in the front door there's just glow sticks everywhere baggies on the floor Seven day, yeah, seven day rave. I haven't slept or blink. We did burgers as well.

So, like, I'm pulling out even the dinner stops. Like, on a Monday night, we had cheese burgers for dinner, which is, like, not a normal thing. That's a bad. That's heavy hitter, straight on. I'm trying to, like, yeah, give them a good experience because I know that they're probably a bit tentative. Like, holy shit, dad's on his own here. I'm always jealous from kids eat hamburgers. My kids don't eat it, so.

I can only imagine what that's like. One day, Matthew, one day we'll get to a good. Matt, did you always want to be a dad? I always thought I would be a dad. There's never been a time in my life where I thought, you know, I don't want kids. Was I always ready to be a dad? No, I think there was a time in my life when I met Sarah where it kind of came to the forefront. I was like, yeah, I want to be a dad with her.

And I know for her, there was a time in her life where she didn't want kids. And I think, and it changed when her and I met. And I think, yeah, when you meet the right person, you go, yeah, I think now's the time. Where did you meet, where did you meet Sarah? Sarah and I've got a really long meeting story. I won't tell the whole thing because it's a long one. But we met out in Kingscross, the jungle of Sydney. It's back.

It's back. Oh, that's good to hear. I feel sorry for the kids these days. But we met there. Nothing happened. We kind of were both at two separate clubs in Kings Cross. She was at Hugo's and I was at the club. It was called downstairs.

Great. Yeah, it's original. Great establishments. We both socially smoked cigarettes at that point in our life. We don't smoke anymore, thankfully. And we'd gone out for a cigarette. and we got chatting. And then three weeks later, she popped up on my Facebook feed because it wasn't,

it wasn't Instagram at that point, popped up on my Facebook feed tagged in a photo. And I was like, that's a girl that I was talking to. And I added her on the center of DM and I said, hey, remember me? And she was like, no. Oh, heavy. Made a real impression. Made a real impression. And then over several weeks, eventually went for a first date with her.

And then that went really well. But then over time, she kind of then got a little bit more. more distant. And at the time, you know, it was like the very beginning of dating apps. And so like, it was getting to like that time where Tinder had just launched and you could go on a date like every day of the week if you wanted. And it was kind of. And so I was in this like, I was in my mid-20s. I was in party boy mode. I was going out all the time. And I remember feeling this distance from her. And I actually had a really good first date. And she kind of stuck in my mind. So I put myself out there, which I wouldn't have normally done. And I sent her this text just saying, hey, I kind of sense a bit of

distance. Did I do something to offend you? I just want to let you know, like, I actually had a really good night with you the other night and I just want to see you again. And then I got this essay back going, well, actually, yeah, you have done. I only hear from you from Friday nights onwards. You don't call me. You only text me. You've been out. You post photos and videos of like you partying every night with different people. Basically, you're a fuck boy and that's how you're being perceived, right? Wow. Okay. And in my mind, did you expect that? Sounds like a pretty good time. No, Not at all, not at all, because from my perspective, Monday to Friday, I was just at work. And I was working like, I'd get to the, I'd get to Friday night and go, okay, take a breath.

Let's do something. Go socialize. And then I'd message her. So I kind of took the feedback on board. And then I said, it was like kind of December and I said, hey, feedback taken. Let's start again in the new year. I'll take that feedback on board. And she's like, cool.

And so then like the first of January, I message her like, New Year, let's go. Like, she's like, it's really early, but I just want to let you know, like I've gone on a couple dates with someone I'm not the type to kind of speak to kind of two people at once. Who's that fuck boy now? I was like, at that point I was like, that's okay. She said that she'd gone on a couple dates with this dude. And I was like, that's all right. I'm going to be really persistent. I'll speak to you in a couple weeks and that doesn't work out. Like, we're going on a date. Right? And so then I'm out to dinner with a really good friend of mine, girlfriend of mine who I've been friends with for years, just a friend. She's telling me about, she'd been with a guy for several years and they'd broken up.

and we're kind of sharing stories about, you know, our love lives and she's telling me about this, the ex-boyfriend, and I said, I went on this date with this girl, I really liked her, but she's now seeing someone, but I'm just seeing where things end up, da-da-da-da-da. Anyway, she tells me about her ex-boyfriend. They've broken up, and he's seeing a girl. He's like, this is the girl he's seeing.

Shows me a photo. And then Sarah. And my heart sank. And I was like, well, firstly, because also I knew this dude, and this dude was a dick. So I was like, okay, well, she likes. feels like a movie. If she likes him, she doesn't like me.

So then I've then excused myself from this dinner and gone home because I'm like burning on the inside to call Sarah. I just go crying my bedroom for a bit. And so I call Sarah on the way home. I just said, hey, I just kind of told her the story. And I said, this is not to be offensive anyway and I don't want to go into it anyway. But if you like this, dude, you don't like me. And so it's all good.

I know I said I was going to be really persistent. I didn't want you to think that I'm going back on my word because you don't hear from me. I just wanted to let you know that. And I left it at that. She's like, what do you mean? or tell me what I'm like, no, no, that's it. And then I just left it. And then she's texting me going, thanks for whatever that was. Because I was kind of being a bit cryptic. I didn't want to bad mouth this guy because it kind of looked like me just being jealous, right? So I didn't

say anything about him, but I just said, we're two very different people. So like, if you're like that kind of guy, then you're probably not going to be into me. And so left out that. And then two weeks later, obviously she kind of came to the realization. This guy was a bit of a dick, messaged me and just said, hi, which was the first thing I'd messaged her on Facebook, was just high. And so then we went on our second date, which was Valentine's Day. And you're like, yes. And then that was it. We went on Valentine's Day. We kissed for the first time. We did like a trapeze cast at a, and then I took it to the circus show. That was on a day. You too, did it? Whoa. Whoa. Back up a little bit here. A trapeze class.

Okay. So this is, this is a bad idea for a first date. If anyone's listening for a first day, do not do this unless you're very flexible as a man. Speaking. Yeah. So I took it. Centennial Park in summer they do trapeze classes in Centennial Park. And so I booked this thing and then I booked one of those Fox Studios circus shows that they have come through sometimes and dinner. So it was like a circus themed date and it was Valentine's Day. So I've taken her to this class. I'm the least flexible person, you know. I guarantee in this room out of the three of us, I'm the least flex. My mobility is like a seven-year-old. Anyway, we've got this guy teaching us who is

jacked. Like, you know what the gymnast dudes are. He's like, he's got his shirt off. He's got like 10 abs. He's walking out and he's doing all the stuff. And then, like, lacro pants and his cocker showing. And you're like, come on. And at the time, I was like doing some pretty heavy weights. I was quite built. And I was like, I got this. Like, I'm going to get up there. It's like strength. I've got strength. I'll do it. And it's got really little to do his strength. Like, you can do a chin up, but then you have to be able to scoop your legs back and over this thing. And so I'm up in the air upside down, just banging my shins against this metal pole because I can't get it on the thing. Just going, fuck, while she's watching it. Then I've

got this instructor like gracefully doing it, showing her how it's done. And so it was just a really funny day. And then we went to the circus. But it all went well in the air. But yeah, don't. It's nice to get your icks out of the way. Yeah. So bleeding bruised shins a week. Let me just get all these icks out of the way. How many trapeze dates have you had since? None. Thank goodness. You're right.

I love that. Like, such good intention. Never again. Were you prepared, do you think, for the changes that were going to happen to you after the kids arrived and you became a dad? No, definitely not. I think we're pretty useless as like, especially dad's telling each other what's to come. It's kind of we default to, oh, hold the fuck on, get ready, like things are going to get

crazy, you're not going to sleep ever again and all those sorts of things. And in a way, it's kind of a little bit true for a short period of time. But really, I was pleasantly surprised after having kids of like that part of it. Like it was really nice. I had two weeks off work and I got to sit and watch sport with my kids sleeping on me. And it was a really nice period, that baby bubble afterwards, those first two to four weeks. I loved it. I think what I wasn't prepared for was the responsibility of being a parent and realizing that this feeling doesn't go away.

You know, you are now responsible for this kid for the next at least 18 years and you will worry about them in the same way your parents did of everything they do. And I think about all the things I did as a kid and I think, oh, I grew up in a relatively strict household where I couldn't just go and do anything I wanted. And I think my parents were probably too lenient on me now than I think about all the things that I didn't. Would I want my kids doing what I didn't know? I don't think I would. You know, and that scares the shit out of me. I've got two boys and I think if they're got the crazy side of me, they're going to do some crazy stuff.

And I used to do a lot of crazy stuff. And I just don't anymore because I used to feel that people about, oh, well, you ride a motorbike. Or I used to, I used to be into a hobby of mine was canyoning. What? Canyning. Yeah, me and a group of mates got heavily into canyoning for a while. I don't know if you know what that is. It's like, canyning.

Why didn't you take a canying for the first day? You took a trapezing. So canyoning is where you go, like you can do it in the Blue Mountains in New South Wales and you abseil into the kind of crevice between where two mountains meet and you go into what is this avatar land and you have to, the only way in and out is often abseiling down and down and down. And you then kind of have to walk your way. There's a lot of free climbing rocks.

There's a lot of ad sailing. There's a lot of swimming. You're jumping into pools of water where you don't know how deep they are from an incredible height. It's adventure to the max, and it is the most incredible experience, and we started off with beginner ones, and we kind of started to work our way up. The last one we did, we actually end up getting lost in and had rescue helicopters out looking for us.

We just never came home. Oh, shit. I didn't rock up to work on Monday. We went in on a Sunday. Six of us lost in the mountains. Did it make the news? It didn't make the news, thankfully. Everyone survived.

But anyway, so like, I'll do stuff like that, and people would say to me, doesn't it worry that you're riding a motorcycle, doesn't worry if you're going to jump out of a plane, and doesn't And I like, you hear all these stats about how many people have died doing this or that. And I'll be like, I don't, I don't. Indestructible. Not, not even. I actually thought I was very destructible. But like, I could live my life fearing what could happen or I could just live my life

happy and die at the age of 30 going fast on a motorbike and happy. And, okay, that's the way I was meant to go. And I kind of had told myself that that, if that's the way I'm meant to go, then that's the way I meant to go. I wasn't trying to be brave. It wasn't bravery. Like, I was very careful and I didn't do stupid. things like in terms of like if I wrote a motorbike I wrote it properly and I wasn't riding like

an idiot but like it was just that's life I want to live my life with the things that I want to do and I never imagine changing that because that's the way you always are and for 30 something years of my life that's how I was and then one day I'd be like that and my brain would go through that process of going oh that's all and I'm like oh wait a minute no if I leave my kids have got no one They don't have a dad. My wife's on her own trying to take care of two kids. They haven't got a second income and da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And that for me was like, whoa, like I didn't expect that.

And as a result, I've done nothing crazy since. I haven't gone canyoning. I don't, I don't write a motorbike. I don't know if it's the fact that, you know, I'm getting towards 40. So, you know, as you get older, you experience people passing away around you, or if it's the fact that now you have to think of mortality because you got these little kids, if it's a combination of the two. But yeah, I think about my mortality so much more since becoming a dad.

And I'm like, you know, I'm like, oh, if I'm not here, you know, what would they think of me as their dad if I'm not around? Totally. Like that, and that responsibility is never going to leave you. I think there's this thought that, oh, okay, they're little babies now. I just need to keep them alive for the next few months, right? And then they get to toddlers and they start running and you're like, okay, now they can run in the pool and off the edge.

We just need to get through this little toddler face where they're not quite conscious. And then you can't keep telling yourself, you just need to get through this phase. And then I start thinking, I'm like, shit, what was I doing at 18 years old? I was at festivals dawn, who knows what. Yeah. Like, I'm going to be worrying then. And I've put myself in my, I'm definitely like my mom. My mom is a warrior. And she would, until to this day, my mom will call me if I've got the flu six times a day. Are you okay? Have you had your lemon and honey? My mom, man, I'm 38 years old. Like, it's okay. I'm not going to die. It's everything. fine. I'm coming over. But I think I'm going to be that dad. I think I'm going to be

calling, like, 30's going, is everything okay? Do you make it home all right? And like, you know, that level of responsibility, I just didn't think that would ever be me, but it is. Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? Your mind shift changes so much where, yeah, at 19 to into my 20s, felt fearless in some respects. But then now I'm like, oh, shit. Like, yeah, like, you, like, it's funny when you're in that moment, you sort of picture them a bit. Yeah. And you're like, oh, yeah, okay.

You don't really, like, you don't matter anymore in a way. Like, it's not that you don't matter, but like, you're not the center of that decision. Yeah. You know, and before you were, you were the center. I was like, well, this is my life. I do it the way that I want. Yeah. You mentioned your mum before.

Tell us a little bit about the relationship with your mum. So my mum, I think, you know, has always been a very caring, loving, patient sort of mom. I think, you know, I mentioned before, having the love of your parents is luck and being born into that is really lucky. I think when I look at my upbringing, a lot of confidence was driven through my mum. I couldn't do it wrong in my mum's eyes. My mum always had my back. You can do anything. You put my mind to you're my son, you do it.

And I think that's really understated in society at the moment, like to be giving you kid that confidence. I think there's a lot of confidence issues. And again, having two boys, there's a lot of youth suicide amongst young men. And I think, like, people always ask me, what do you want for your kids? Like, if there's one thing, I'll say, like, I can give my kid one thing, it would be self-confidence. Yeah, okay. Because, again, like, you know, I grew up with immigrant parents, Middle East and background in a country that didn't really love Middle East and people growing up. And I was short.

I was chubby as a kid as well. You know, like, if I didn't have self-confidence, and I'll tell you, like, I had a lot of self-confidence. No one would have ever gone, oh, poor Matt, I was always self-confidence. confident. And I took that for granted. I just thought that was how it was built. But no, I was built that way by my parents giving me confidence. And my mum was very, very good in doing that. She made me always feel like, you know, I've got what it takes and I've got everything that I need. You might not know the answer to this question, but I'll try my luck. Was there any activity that you were going to attempt that your mum was like, you can do this? That sticks out as a

core memory? Nothing in terms of like an actual kind of big moment or anything. But she would be the person who helped me study a lot of the time. So I'd write all my, like, notes from my exam. And then she would have them in front of her, and I'd try to memorize them or to recite them. And she would give me the answers. And so, like, she would be like, okay, you can do it. You can do it. You've gone, man, how am I going to remember all these answers?

So she would help me through exams and things like that, be like, you've got it. You're going to remember. You're going to remember. So HSC exams and year 10 school certificate and stuff, just being in my mom's room, she's in bed and she's got all my notes. She'd be like, just throw random questions out at me. She's like your biggest cheer. Yeah, yeah.

And so is that how you think you want to parent your boys? Yeah, I think telling them I can't is not in the vocabulary and, you know, with hard work and intention you can do anything. And I think the immigrant mentality in that way is really, really strong. And I don't want to lose that because that's how we were brought up. It's like we came to this country with absolutely nothing. My grandfather came with a suitcase and went to. door knocking and knocking on doors and selling random things out of a suitcase to people in

their homes, built up enough money, opened up a fruit and veg store, then made heaps of money from that fruit and veg store, and then unfortunately died in his 50s getting run over outside of that fruit and veg store before I ever got to meet him. But like, that sort of mentality is like what I was brought up on. My dad was a car salesman. I didn't come, I didn't, I had nothing fed to me, but I was always told with hard work and intention I can do what I want. And I've, I've gone through a corporate career where I had the privilege of leading big groups of people and people come to, I can't do this or we've got this. It's like, no, you can actually. You've got everything you need. Like if you just work hard, that's all you need. No, you don't need a, you don't need it,

particularly in what we were doing. I worked in advertising and marketing. You don't need a degree. Like it doesn't actually make you, I've got a degree. It doesn't make you any better at your job. And so it's like you've got everything you need. Just work hard, good intentions. It's hard though when you come from generations where they've had to work so hard to get where you are now and you're finally at a point where you're really comfortable. You're like, I want to give my kids what I didn't have the luxury of having, but at the same time I want them to have a bit of resilience as well. It is. It's a hard balance between those two things and I think about this all the time. My kids are like, I want rollerblades and I'm like, sure, I'll get a player.

Got them, exactly. Yeah. And I'm the same. Like we spoil our kids. I think I've spent literally $10,000 on Pokemon cards recently. Like, yeah, like, seriously, I'm not even sure if I'm exaggerating with that. No, I'm with you, and I know exactly. You are not exaggerating at all.

I bought him a thing the other day. That was 300 bucks a box. He's like, the Charisarizzi Xbox. I was like, cool. Like, you know, I'm still in this thing or it's like, yeah, they're cards. Like, how much could they be? And the guy's like, 300. I was like, what?

How much are they? He's like, 300 bucks are like, Jesus, okay. Give it too. I've gone too far. I've said, yes, you've gotten off the shelf. So yeah, there is a little bit of that. But I always think, okay, like, because my dad was definitely the disciplinarian of my two parents. And I think you need that as well, right? And like, you know, I was scared of my dad until I was an adult.

And then once I became an adult, our relationship blossomed because I kind of, you know, I was old enough to have that. But as a kid, I was like, don't mess with the dad. Like, dad will F me up, you know? So part of me is always like, okay, so I need, I am the disciplinarian out of Sarah and I. Sarah's so, like, loving and sweet all the time, which I love about her. So I'm like, I don't want my kids to be scared of me because I want to have a relationship before they're adults.

But at the same time, sometimes you're like, that doesn't make it a lot easier. Fear me, boy. But at the same time, it's like, I want them to have some form of discipline and not, and build that resilience of not getting everything they want and having to put two feet in front of each other to figure it out themselves. This week, while Sarah has been away, there's been like. like the recycling is piled up. I posted this or social the other day. I was like, guys, we're taking out the rubbish. They're like, yeah, what do you mean by that? Like,

we are taking out the rubbish. You stay there. You're taking out of it. You mentioned the word we. Yeah, yeah. Not sure what that mean. Run me through that. And so like, my little one's two and a half. He's like getting piled up with boxes. It's like, what is happening here? And then I've just piled them up and they're walking down the hallway to the front and they're dropping them everywhere. But I was like, four-year-olds used to sweep. chimneys. Yeah, yeah.

You can take out a bit of cardboard. Last night it was like bedtime. I'm like, okay, every toy in the living room back into the bedrooms now. And they're like, what do you mean? Like, Malik's like, I'm only doing my toys. I'm like, no, no, no. You miss the memo. Like you guys are picking up every toy that currently exists in the living room and putting it in your bedroom.

Until then there is no milk. Right? And so it's just like, so like there is this level of like, this is my household. Yeah. Because like I feel like there's. It gets to a point where it's just too easy for them. Everything gets done for them. I had to clean my own room.

These days kids don't clean their own. We've got a cleaner that comes once a week. I'm like, no, I want them to clean their own room. At least tidy up. Like, we've got some house rules now we've implemented. And it is, after we play, we tidy up what we play with. They forget that every time. They'll forget it within a couple of minutes.

Yeah, I'm like, oh my God. It doesn't actually enter their brain. Like, you have to really remind them. Yeah. If I, like, forgot any of my uniform, If I lost a hat at primary school, I had a cup of beating. You get shamed for it. I remember Marley, it was like first week.

I was like, where's your hat? She's like, I don't fucking know. And then you had a surplus of hats? It's like, to Laura, I'm like, should we make the kids scared of us a bit more? Should we? Should we? We're too soft. What could go wrong?

Like, what do you think of kids these days swearing at their parents? Like, if I said, fuck you to my. mom or my dad see you later. Because I live with my mum. So my mum was always like, you never would have said that to me when you were younger. Yeah. I think like me growing up, my parents never swore. So I used to swear not around them.

I used to get in trouble for it because I didn't, I would rebel with that. I have not stopped swearing around my kids since they were born. And I made a point, you can, you're going to change me so much this part of my life. You're not changing. So shut the fuck up. And I've lived by that. And my kids know. They've never sworn at me.

I think Oscar called April once a dirty little rat. But that's a story of another time. My kids are like, That's hurtful. My kids are like, Ashy Bashy, he swears a lot, doesn't he? I'm like, fuck on, I don't.

Did you ever do that thing? It was happening on social media where you get, you leave your kid alone and just see what they? I did that with Malikas when he was three. And I was gobsmacked. I could not believe it. He's the sweetest kid. my oldest son. And I'd never heard him swear. And I left you with the room. I said,

look, if you need a swear, say whatever you want, get it out of your system now, but after I come back in no more. And I was thinking I was going to get like poo-poo and wee at that age. And the first thing that came out of his mouth when I watched the video back was, fucking hell. And he even sounded like my dad. My dad heard it and goes, oh, I'm in trouble here. That inflection was done. Yeah, yeah. Usually it sounds like mum. money. When we did it with Oscar, I was like, that sounds exactly like you, babe. All it was was, fuck sake.

And it was like this weird like, fuck sake. Like she wasn't meant to be like, shoulders up. Yeah, it was just like, oh, you fucking dog. I was shocked. I couldn't believe it. We always say to him, you're not going to get in trouble for swearing around us, but swearing makes some people feel uncomfortable. So don't swear in front of other people.

You can swear at home in the right context. that ties, but don't swear around other people. That's real. And definitely do not swear the intent at mum. If he ever swore at us, it would be a different story. Sometimes you've got to get it out, which for me is every second fucking word. It's just the attitude of my kids. Do you want to clean your room?

They're like, fine. That's as bad as swearing. You might as well tell me to fuck right up. Hey, Maddie, I think it was 2003. After you'd already had your son, you guys experienced. miscarriage. Can you remember what it was like trying to deal with that situation? Yeah. We're always kind of conscious of, we had had a lot of friends who had gone through miscarriages and family as well. So we're always kind of conscious of even before we started

trying. And I remember before we started trying for kids, we were like, okay, we're going to do everything right. We've decided we're going to try, going to go to the naturopath. We're going to get all our vitamins checked, probably oversharing here, but like Sarah didn't have like a regular cycle either. So we wanted to kind of understand what that meant. And I remember we go to the naturopath and we had this meeting and she was like, yeah, so it kind of means that, like, you've probably got two days every three months where you guys can fall pregnant. And I was like, holy shit, I've spent my whole adult life trying not to get people pregnant. You're telling you it's this hard.

That fits into my regular schedule. That's so strange. So I remember hearing that and going, okay, this is why. What's normal? Do you know, like, what's normal for the window? I think four or five days and like two days is like peak time and then the other two days, like not peak time, right? And so like...

I just had a funny thought three men sitting around talking about... Yeah, ovulation. There's three guys at a pub, and I'm talking about ovulation. So I remember her saying that and thinking, okay, well, we could like be trying for a long time here. And then thankfully, we fell pregnant pretty quickly after we'd kind of gotten... We took our chance, essentially, and it was all good, and we'll like, remember thinking we're really relieved. And then after that, it kind of escaped us.

We were like, okay, well, we felt pretty much. pregnant pretty quick and we're really blessed for that. And then when we had the second, you kind of just go to the second going, well, we've been through all this before and you're a lot more chill about things and you think, you know, the female body's gone through the process. It's, it's going to be easy. And then had a miscarriage after telling our family, which, you know, we told them a lot sooner this time and all those things because we were a lot more relaxed about it. How many weeks? Sarah was nine weeks, 10 weeks or relatively early on. And knowing that kind of kind of had happened to a lot of people with my family and friends.

And I think just being the type of person I am, I went into, oh, that's it, we're good. Don't worry. This happens all the time and all the stats. Sarah always, when we go flying, she's not a great flight. She's like, read me the stats, read me the stats. I'm like, you're more likely to die with a shark attack. You're more likely, like, turbulence is normal. This is, I just read her all these flight stats and she feels better.

I had to record it for her trip to Paris. I sent her an audio note going, please keep this in case of emergency. She said she used it on the way. Anyway, so I go into like solution mode. So I'm like, don't worry. Like we'd move on and da-da-da-da. And I was kind of like really just brushing it under the carpet. And it wasn't until hindsight's a great thing.

But like afterwards and having a conversation with Sarah about it that I realized I probably didn't handle it too well. It was probably too solution focus. She just wanted someone to listen, take it in, just tell us she's going to, you know, Yeah, like maybe just, yeah, like let her have the moment to grieve and and not be okay with it and not try to pretend it was nothing and it's common and not provide a solution. And I didn't at the time. I definitely handled it wrong and we had a conversation about it afterwards. And I kind of came to the realization. I was like, yeah, no, you're right. I went into default mode.

Do you think you were trying to protect yourself at all? I think so. Yeah, there's definitely an. element of that, like trying not to think about it and move on. I try not to let myself get ever too high or too low. Like I feel like for me personally, I try to stay even killed and I don't get carried away with the winds and I try to move on from the losses pretty quickly and go, well, it's not going to get any worse than this. We've just got to move on things that can only get better. So I kind of tried to apply that to her way of thinking and she's obviously feeling something very different to me. And yeah, I think it's not that I was obviously hurting about it.

but I felt like my role in that scenario was to be strong. And I was trying to play my role to be strong because I think if I fell, then it'd make it worse for her. That's at least what was going through my head. But I think she just wanted someone to grieve with her. It's sort of like a reflect, right? Where you're like, I'll try and solve the problem when sometimes you just got to sit with them in it.

Just being heard without the problem solving. But it's so, like I said, it's such a reflex to be like, I'll solve this problem. Totally. And when it comes to health stuff, I'm actually not the better of the two of us. Like, we both play our roles in different parts of our lives. And she's the rock in some things and I'm the rock in other things. And when it comes to health, she's actually a lot better than me.

When the kids are sick and, you know, Malik had a really severe arm break at the end of last year. And, you know, she was handling a lot better than I will. I couldn't look at the kid. Like, it was devastating. He's these arms snapped in half from the elbow whilst at daycare, which is even more frustrated. And yeah, like she handles that stuff much better than me. So I felt like, Matt, this is a health thing now. Like we've just had a miscarriage.

Don't be a dick. Keep your shit together. She's going to need you. She's going to be very, like, upset about this. And so I was like extra trying to like keep my shit together for her. But that's not what she wanted or needed. So, yeah. How did you find the anxiety then of trying a game?

Yeah. I don't think I had anxiety about it. I think I knew that we'd already had. kid and I knew that we could have children. And I think that for me is what I just kept telling myself and that this has happened. And, you know, I've got siblings who have gone through the exact same thing. So I never thought in my mind that this is like I'm now doomed and we're not going to have our second trial. It didn't cross my mind. So I wasn't feeling anxiety in that way. But it crossed our mind once you fell pregnant the second time, those first 12 weeks, especially,

we were a lot more kind of on edge, which like the first time you are, right? There's a little bit of nervousness. So that nervousness came back, and I think it stayed with us for the rest of the pregnancy, up until kind of the later stages, and we started to feel a bit more comfortable again. So, yeah, it was more the nervousness rather than, like, are we going to fall pregnant again? I think we're okay with that. There are many ways where men are very lucky in comparison to women. We had two miscarriages, and I think the big difference is the grief stays with,

or for Laura anyway, with her for a lot longer than it did for me, because I'm lucky in that you know you deal with it but then you can distract yourself and get your mind off it whereas with Laura it was with a 24-7 it's part of her right yeah that's the difference it's like it's physically part of her you know and I think that is that is different it comes part of your like being I think it's a good thing though you say oh we we almost like it was a bad thing we said we told people early and I always think tell people early I think it's such a it's such a benefit it, you think it's a burden to be like, hey, what's wrong? You're like, well, we felt pregnant. And then we've lost the baby to tell them all the details and it's easy just to be like,

everything's fine. But being forced into telling people like, unfortunately, we lost the baby, that in itself is quite healing. I agree. I totally agree with that. Like, we, we obviously told people our closest family and friends thinking that, you know, everything was going to be good. But when it wasn't good, it was so much better because we had the support network of everyone. We didn't, We didn't need to go and tell them this bad news. It was kind of just like, this is what's happened, and they already knew where we were at. And I think it was really nice to have that. So, yeah, I agree with you.

Yeah, there's so many people that, like, suffer in silence. Yeah, I remember, like, when we fell pregnant with our first, and it was like, oh, you can't tell anyone until X amount of time. And it's like, well, like, that's going to make a difference for what the outcome is going to be, right? I would much rather be like, hey, mom and dad, we're actually expecting we're this far along. And then if something does happen, we say, unfortunately, this is, like you said, where we're at. And they can, they're not getting hit with, oh, wait a minute, she was pregnant. And then this, you know, like.

There's still this weird shame attached to it. And I don't understand why. Like, it wasn't actually until we had a miscarriage that I found out my own family and friends had had miscarriages and just never said anything. Yeah. And I was like, I told whoever wanted to listen at the time because anyone I saw during that period, like, how are things, this is what's happening. I know that like not everyone is open book. I'm a relatively open book person. I just share things.

I don't really care. But I found it strange that like some of my closest people had never mentioned it. And they had kind of suffered in silence and thought why? Like there's no shame in it. This is particularly now in our society where we're starting to have kids a lot later, it happens so often. Why wouldn't you like tell people and get it off your chest a little bit and not suffer in silence? Yeah, it was like with Woodsy, like a bunch of his footy teammates that he's

spend every day with. We're all going through a similar thing with like trying to fall pregnant IVF, all this sort of stuff. And no one knew until like one day someone mentioned the change room, then all of a sudden and everyone's banded together. It's like, well, can't we learn something from that, right? Can we learn that like, what are you hiding this from? Like, you're not going to be, I'm not going to sit here and be like and shame you about something that you can't control. The next generation, don't know how good they're going to have it. Thanks to us. The work that we're doing. Me later. Maddie you mentioned this a little bit.

earlier, but to touch upon it again, when your boys, they're all grown up, they're no longer living at home with you and Sarah. What is the one thing you want them to remember about the house they grew up in? Oh, wow. I want them just to think of it fondly as the place where they had the best times. I think of my childhood in my house and the house that I grew up in. And it was a place of just family connection where we swam in the pool together and play basketball at the front and it's where me, my siblings and cousins and family had the best time. And I just want them to think of that place as their home, like that, that home where they had all those core memories of all the greatest times with their family. So that's really it.

Right. They're very lucky. Thanks. You've just had a third. How's that going? Hell. She's a dream, babe. I spent a few, I spent a few days with them over the New Year's and she, I forgot she was there. She was so quiet. So you've had, you've had three. girls, right? And I always get asked this question, having had two boys, like, when you're going to have the girl, when you're going to have the girl? Is that what led for you to go for the third thinking that you're going to have a boy? Well, he's a shallow penetrator. He's a shallow penetrator, so he's never going to have a boy. I do. Sorry, yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry. I don't know. I've seen it. It's brilliant.

I don't think you ever feel complete. I think there's always that sense of like, maybe one more. But after two, I just think we just weren't quite ready to like completely, like, shut up shop. You didn't take the decision lightly. It took a while for making the decision. And I look, honestly, I was pro no baby. But now, like, stoked. The hardest thing was telling Ash. That is, it's been a pleasure.

Yes. Having you on. So nice to be here. So good to chat to you too. Yeah, thanks for taking the time. And best of luck with the rest of the solo parenting. You are a true Australian hero. Don't worry about me, guys.

I've got this. Thank you, mate. Thank you. You know, I look at Matt, and there was one thing that doesn't spring to mind, Ash. Go on. It's the fact that I would never pick him as a canyner. It took me in a while. Is it a canyner?

Canyonist. I'm a canionero. I don't know. But I was in... That's a surprise package. It is. Who would have thought? Not me.

Who would have thought? I mean... I feel like I should have been in the canyoning. He also told the story of how we met Sarah very, it was a very good story. It was like a movie. I was involved. At one point I was like, it was like a thriller. It was like it happened to be the same.

Wow! It made it sound like they didn't get together at one point. I was like, but how? They've got two kids. I know. It was great. But if you have enjoyed this episode, we would absolutely love it. Matt would also love it as well.

If you would give us a review, just a couple of words, a little comment. one word, two words, ten words, whatever you feel like, either on Spotify or on Apple Podcasts, and Ash, they can also follow us on social media. Yes, Two Dating Dads, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and we have a bustling Facebook group. If you want to join that, go for it. We'll accept you.

We'll take anyone. Or we'll be. Find out. Bye. Bye. Two Doting Dad's podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and the connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their elders, past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today.

This episode was recorded on Gatigal Land.