Two Hot Takes - 251: Am I Overreacting?!

Episode Date: January 15, 2026

Two Hot Takes host, Morgan, is joined by guest co-host Michaela Okland! People often ask "Am I overreacting?" in situations where they're clearly NOT and today's episode has quite a few of them. From someone who found out she's related to her fiancé to a man that's got an imaginary Roach love interest named Ogtha we cover some seriously outrageous stories. So who's overreacting and who is not reacting enough?!.. Can't wait to hear your thoughts! Partners: Credit Karma: https://www.creditkarma.com/ Skims: Skims.com/tht NEW MERCH:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://shop.twohottakes.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Bonus Content on Patreon including FREE stories: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/TwoHotTakes ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ MERCH HERE ! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://shop.twohottakes.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Send us a letter? Our PO Box!! Two Hot Takes. 5042 Wilshire BLVD. #470. Los Angeles, CA 90036  WRITE IN TO US!!! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://reddit.app.link/twohottakes ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Full length Video episodes available on YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/c/TwoHotTakes⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Index: 00:00 -- Start Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Here we go. Oh my God, getting back in the swing of things. Back in the saddle again. We haven't recorded in here since like January. No, my God, we're in January. Right. Since December, like, 14th. Yeah.

I did one little episode in Minnesota to make sure you guys had something for New Year's. But other than that, we've been on hiatus. I can't believe I'm here with Golden Globes Correspondent. Oh, shut up. That was so cool. It was so cool. I, for those that don't know, I hosted, like, a mini mic on a carpet for the Hollywood Reporter and, like, Spotify, their pre-Golden Globes party. And it was insane.

Like, I, I've never been able to do stuff like that, like, that other level of the party. Like, obviously, Spotify invites me to rap every year. But, like, this was so, it was just a different level. And so, like, seeing people like Nina Dobrev in person. And I'm like, I'm like, Nina. you give a hot take and she's like, no, sorry. It's just a different level. And I'm like, she's so much prettier in person.

Like, I think that's the thing about a lot of these people. Like, they don't look how they look on photos or on the screens. Yeah. They look better. Yeah. And they already look good on screen. And they look good. And it's just like, you see them in person.

You're like, oh, no. Like you are, you're an angel. Like, what the hell? That's such a cool milestone. I literally, people were commentations. and they're like, Morgan, you manifested this. Like, you talked about wanting to do this and here you are. And I'm like, that's right.

Okay. We need to be, like, writing down our milestones in 2026. I feel like, because it's so easy to forget the cool things that happen and, like, the good moments. I know. We should do, like, a little jar. Yeah. Like, okay, I did this, write down, put in the jar. And at the end of the year.

And have, like, 2026 on it and then, like, add to the jar. And then at the end of the year, like, read them all back. I like that. That'd be really good. They did the first, for the first time, the golden. Globes had like a best podcast category. Yes. Which is super cool.

Really cool. Amy Polar won. I saw some hot takes about that. Yeah, I think a lot of people did. I personally, I love it. I, um, I went and saw her podcast alive. Yeah. And she had my Rudolph on.

And like, I don't know if I've seen anyone interview in the way Amy does. Like she is so, so good. And like something I kind of picked up from her watching her is like, be okay. K, knocking in an answer and letting the conversation just float. Like, I feel like I learned some interview techniques watching her live show. But she's so, so good with everyone. Yeah. I mean, she's amazing. She's so funny. She's so witty. She's so smart. And, like, I love her podcast. It's really good. I do understand some people being like, it would. Or it would have been nice if it went to, like, someone who kind of is a podcaster and, like, built the podcasting forum rather than, like, a famous

person who then made a podcast. Yeah. Which like isn't on her. No. It's like and I don't, I don't even listen to call her daddy. But I could, I do think that that's a podcast that really like converted so many people to listening to podcast. Put podcasting on the map for, for a lot of women.

Yeah. So I can see why there's some discourse. All great options though. It's exciting that that's like becoming a thing. I know. It almost like it validates. podcasting as being this medium. And I could talk about this all day. I'm like, there's so much going on in like Hollywood and podcasting and how Hollywood, since the writer's strike is like, it's kind of fizzling

here. There's not a lot of jobs and people are struggling. And so they're now turning to these other media. And so it's really cool. But one thing I did see about Amy winning is like, Amy, this woman, you know, she's been podcasting for 10 months and beats out her ex-husband, a guy who's been podcasting for years. And I was like, who's her ex-husband? Will Arnette? He has, as the podcast SmartLess with Jason Bateman. Oh, that is a pretty big podcast as well. It's huge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, okay, Amy.

Wow. My goal is to meet her this year. She walked right past me at the Spotify party, and I'm just like... With... Oh, the one you went to last week. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy.

I mean, it's going to keep happening. I know. It's going to keep happening. I know. Two people that I met, and I didn't... I had not watched the show yet, but two people I met are... Robbie and Nadine from heated rivalry. Oh, I haven't seen that yet.

I know that you just did. It's so much more than people are giving it credit for. Like, I want to go to bat and just like fight. You were sobbing. I was the first four episodes, I'm like, I thought this was supposed to be good. I'm fucking bawling. And I'm on my period right now. So like watching that, I'm like, I think if I watch it when I'm ovulating,

maybe it'll be a different experience. but like I was so sad, you guys, but like everyone, like all the interviews I've seen, everyone's like, what about that steamy scene? And I'm like, no, this show is so much more than that. It has it all. It has it all. And like coming from Minnesota and being such a hockey girl, like I grew up on hockey, all of my best guy friends played hockey. That was my whole high school, college, my whole life. Yeah. It's who I dated. It's just like it's, it's so interesting. And like homophobia is something that like the hockey culture and the hockey world needs to get better with. And like there's been a lot of recent changes with like pride and taping their sticks with like rainbow tape and like trying to have LGBTQ plus nights.

Yeah. But then on the other side there's players that are like, I'm not wrapping my tape, my sticking rainbow tape. And it's like, fuck you. And so I hope this show kind of changes that and like empowers some of the players to just like be themselves. Well, I've been seeing that. It's so good. One of the actors was saying that some closeted professional hockey players had been DMing him being like, this was really helpful to me. And I think we have to remember that. Like, even though we have progressed so much, there are still a lot of people who are in the closet

because it would be dangerous for them to come out. And like even professional athletes, like, it's, there's a very scary environment to like, I don't know, I'm glad that they're doing it. It's cool. I think it's making some changes. I know. I hope it does. I think there's only been, like, one hockey player that's even, like, come out. And, like, he was kind of speaking on this. And maybe, you know, if you want to look more into that, read that. But it is, it's just, it's really good. Great acting. I mean, Conner's Russian accent is in insane. Is this take place in Russia? He's a Russian hockey player. It takes place in, like, Montreal and Boston mostly. Big hockey area. Unreal. Unreal show, though. I'm trying to get them on. So if you follow them on any socials, like start tagging them. Yes, comment on all of their posts. You should be on two out takes.

You should be on two out takes. Literally. That's what actually works. Like, I feel like I've reached out to like a lot of people that people have been like, get so and so on. And I'm like, you guys, I've been tried. Yeah. It's hard. We're still flying under the radar over here on two out takes a little bit.

But hey, 2026, maybe our year. But without further ado, let's get into today's stories. I have a theme. It's kind of a am I overreacting theme? Just an assortment of chaos where people are kind of questioning like, am I overlooking this or overthinking this? I don't know. Is it a big deal? Usually you're not overreacting.

That's my hot take, but we'll find out. Let's find out. Let's dive in. This episode of two out takes is presented by credit karma. When it comes to your money, credit karma keeps you ahead of the game. You can count on credit karma to keep up with your financial needs as they evolve. They'll help you monitor your progress and give personalized recommendations so you can make strides towards your goals and find your way to money. Make sure you're on the right track no matter where you are

on your financial journey. Intuit Credit Karma. Karma you can count on. I love tracking my score on credit karma. I actually found out that's how I missed a payment. Thanks, Credit Karma. This is coming from our very own Too Hot Take Subreddit, 19 hours old. It is titled, My Boyfriend Refuses to to stop wearing his dead wife's wedding ring and wants me to just accept it. I've 32 female been dating Mark 38 male for about a year. Mark was married before. His wife died four years ago from cancer. It's obviously tragic, and I've tried to be understanding about him still grieving. Mark still wears his wedding ring from her on his left ring finger, the wedding ring finger, while dating me. At first, I don't know.

didn't say anything because we were casually dating, but now we're serious, talking about moving in together, and he still wears it every day. When we go out, people assume we're married and he doesn't correct them. Last month, I gently brought it up and said I'm uncomfortable with him wearing another woman's wedding ring while in a relationship with me. He said the ring is part of who he is, and he's not taking it off. I said I understand that she was important, but wearing a wedding ring signals he's married to her, not available for a new relationship with me. He got upset and said I'm jealous of a dead woman and trying to erase his past. I suggested maybe he could wear it on a different finger or on a necklace, still keeping it, but not in the wedding ring spot. He said no,

it has to stay where it is. Last week, someone congratulated us on our marriage because they saw his ring, and I had to awkwardly explain the situation. I don't want him to forget her, but I also don't want to feel like I'm the other woman in my own relationship. Am I asking for too much? I will say I read this late last night, and I feel like my opinion has changed slightly reading it again. So I'm really, I'm curious.

This is hard, because I don't think either of them are wrong. No. Like, I understand him. wanting to do that. I also think she came up with a good compromise. I agree. Of him putting it on another finger or around a necklace. And I also think like it actually is normal to be jealous of a dead woman.

Like I think how do you compete with that? Like of course, like it's almost like this. Like I'll never compare. I'll never measure up. But I don't think he's doing something wrong either. It does suck that it keeps coming up in these like, awkward moments and awkward conversations. A lot. Like it's coming up a lot. Yeah, because of course, people see the ring and then it's like, oh, you're married and then, you know, you have to do this

thing every time. I've never been in a situation like for it that either of them are in enough to like really put myself, I feel like in the headspace of the reality of it. And I kind of feel like I understand both of them. I agree. And like we've had a lot of these stories over the years where we have had people that are genuinely jealous of a ghost or threatened by a ghost. So much so to where they'll destroy every picture, video, everything of that other person. Which is bad. That's bad, especially because, like, there was one story where it was like, I think the daughter writing in, being like my stepmom destroyed everything of my mom's. She threw it away. Blah, blah, blah. Like, that's really sad, especially when there's kids involved and, like, that's their mom.

Yeah. With this one, I don't necessarily feel like she's jealous of a dead woman. It doesn't, it doesn't feel like she's trying to erase her like other stories have. It genuinely just is kind of like, hey, like, I just want to make sure, like, you're open to us and this new relationship. And it does feel like you're closed off a little bit and holding on to the past and a past that like you can't have because she's gone. And then on the flip side, I'm like, hey, you might love him, but this is where he's at right now and he's just not ready.

Yeah. Like grief is not a linear thing. Like he's just not ready. And so you might have to accept him where he is or realize like maybe this isn't the right person for you right now. It does come down to that sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes it comes down to like this person's not.

wrong and this person's not wrong. It's really like, are you compatible? And could you both be okay in finding a compromise here and working this out? Yeah. And sometimes the answer is no. And I think the answer is no. Like the compromise of maybe just like switch hands. Like it's still on like your ring finger, but on the other hand, which is still meaningful. Like in Europe in some places, that is their ring finger anyways. I feel like this would be a situation where she would have to decide would I be comfortable if we get married if he's always wearing two wedding rings. I know. Like how would he even do that? Are we we we stack in? Yeah. Like he's, and granted men's bands are different, but like we we stack in? Yeah. Like what I don't know, it is interesting and like he almost

needs to find someone else who's lost a partner who can fully understand how he feel or just like more conversations need to happen for them to like fully understand like the intricacies of their feelings about it. I mean, they. also have only been dating for a year. And I get like you're 32, he's 38, relationships when you're older and established do move a little faster. But at the same time, like, I understand why he maybe isn't so willing to like take off this ring from his wife when you guys have only been together a year. Yeah. Did they say we've had conversations about it and he's confirmed that he'll never take it off even if we get married, even like.

If we progress. Yeah. Let's see if we have any comments from OP. The top comment on this one is quite simple. He is not ready. Next one down. He's not your boyfriend. He's her husband.

And that does have quite a few upvotes. Someone does respond to it. This. I was widowed at 25, lost my partner and unborn child within 48 hours. It took me years to stop telling people. I was spoken for, years for me to actually be ready to date, and every time I tried, it went up in flames. He's still her husband, and that's okay. That's a normal part of grieving as a widow. But it's not fair to her for him to be unable to admit it. Wow. I mean, that insight's really helpful from someone

who's been in a similar situation and lost somebody and said, like, yeah, this is a part I had to get through, but being in that phase does mean he's not ready to move on yet. I think that that's really helpful information. And that's probably what the girl was picking up on. This is really, really tough. I think it just comes down to compatibility and I don't think they have it. Or just like, yeah, the time in life. That's what I was thinking when I was hearing it too. It's like, will he meet someone else who he loves so much that he does feel? it's time to like put that ring on another finger. Yeah. Or do something like that. And I feel like you kind of have to wonder that. And it's probably harder to be him and be like, am I just feeling these

things because this isn't my person or am I going to feel this way about everybody? Is it always never going to measure up to the one who passed away? Very complicated. No one's an asshole here. No. No. And I don't even think you're necessarily like overreact. Oh, right. It's from, am I overreacting? Too hot take subreddit. One of our own. Oh, one of our own out there. I would probably take a step back. I definitely wouldn't move in. I definitely wouldn't progress forward more in like big ways of commitment. Yeah. If you care for him, love him, like keep on dating. But if you can't move past the ring issue, then like I think you are just incompatible. Yeah. I'm really curious what everyone thinks to.

about the whole wrong time right person or right person wrong time. Yeah. And like so many people go back and forth on that and they're like, you wouldn't get the right person at the wrong time. Like the universe wouldn't do that to you. I'm curious what everyone thinks about it. I go back and forth on that as well because I'm like, I feel like with you and Justin, for example, like it would have happened at any time in your life if you guys had met.

Or do you not feel that way? Oh, no, we joke. Because he's like, God, I wish I would have met you in college. Because we were basically, like, going to the same bars. Like, I went to the University of Minnesota. He went to St. Thomas. But the two colleges are so close and you kind of, like, commingle at all the bars. But I've, like, told him, I'm like, if I would have met you in college, it never would have worked.

Ever. Okay. So then that means there is such a thing as maybe right person wrong time. Yeah. Because I'm like I was. But also college is so young. Like, I do. I feel like that's so different.

I was just like in a different headspace. I was dating hockey players and not for my own good. And I just like wasn't, I wasn't open. I didn't even feel like I didn't know who I was. And so like I think I'm more aligned with like the universe wouldn't give you the right person at the wrong time. I feel like everything happens. It was a lesson. You grew.

You love deeply whatever. You want to take away from it. But not the right person. Yeah. But then I think the other thing. can be true if there's no like real reason it isn't the right time. Sometimes people make up reasons it isn't the right time. That's true. But then there really are like, yeah, if I, if I had met people at different times in my life, I'm like, there's no way I would have ended up with anybody at that time.

Yeah. But yeah, no one's the asshole. I do think both of them in situations like this benefit a lot from like finding groups of people who've been through the same thing or like are going through the same thing because I think if you have no one else to talk to, the advice is almost worthless and it feels like very isolating. So I think Reddit's a great thing for that also. No comments from O.P. No update yet. I mean, it is only, what is it, 19 hours old right now now. So still very fresh. But O.P., if you're out there, would like an update. Sending love to you. You're not crazy. No, no. But moving along to this next one.

Buckle up. Buckle up. I feel like this one's going to be... There's going to be some hot takes that come out of this one, I think. Okay, this one is two days old. It's coming from off my chest. It's titled, I told my sister's fiance about her secret Instagram,

where she ranks his family by who she hopes dies first. I like choked. It's that bad. Oh my gosh. I know how the title sounds. Just let me explain. So my sister, 29 female, has a Finsta. Whatever, lots of people do.

I found it like a year ago because she accidentally logged into it on my iPad when she was over. And I saw the notification. It's private, like 12 followers, just her friends. Most of the posts are just shit talking. Her job, random people, Jake, her fiancé, 31 male. like she screenshots their arguments, and her friends all reply king shit or whatever when she's being mean to him. I thought it was weird, but not my business. But a few months ago, she posted this like tier list, question mark, question mark, ranking his entire family by the order she hopes they die. His grandma was first. She wrote a whole thing about how she,

quote, gives off two more years max, and I'm inheriting that ring. His 14-year-old sister was on there. She said she has school shooter energy. Oh. I screenshot it. I don't know why. I just did. Anyways, last weekend, we were out of barbecue, and Jake is next to me talking about

how much his grandma adores my sister and how she's so excited for October. And I just, I don't know, man. I showed him on my phone right there. He didn't say anything. He just walked to his car and left, didn't even tell anyone he was going. Now, everything is fucked. Wedding is paused, whatever that means. My sister called me sobbing and screaming at the same time, saying that I ruined her life over a joke. My mom keeps texting me about how I always do this, which like, what does that mean? My dad just said, that was a choice and walked away. Jake won't respond to anyone. His mom called my mom apparently. I don't know. I'm getting everything secondhand because my sister blocked me.

I feel sick about it, but also like, was he just supposed to marry her not knowing she ranks his family by death order for fun? Her friends all knew, 12 people knew, and just let him propose to her. I don't know. Maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut, but also fuck that. I have such conflicting. I have such conflicting feelings about this. First of all, I'm going to be so honest right now. This is some shit I would have done. What? When I was like 20, when I was like 19 and had a Finsta in college, I was saying crazy shit on there. It's almost like, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry to say it. A deathless though? It's kind of funny. What? No, bad. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I know. I'm sorry. I know.

I know it is bad. But like, the issue is she's 29 and this is a secret from her fiance. So it's like, why are you still doing this? And why is like the person that you should be closest to? Why is it a secret from him? I'm going to say it. I understand having a finsta with like 12 people and putting some shit on there that you would never. Like it's almost like a joke of like, ooh, this is where I get like crazy. This is where I say things that, like, are pushing the boundaries. But I don't know. It's tough. So I keep going back and forth.

Yeah. I do think, and I'm sorry, I think the sister kind of was an asshole for showing him that. I think she should have talked to her about it and be like, hey, I don't think this is appropriate. You're keeping this a secret from your fiancé. Like, I understand you have like a sense of humor that I don't really get. Clearly don't understand. Yeah. I don't know.

What do you think? I completely disagree. I know. Yeah. But that's good, though. Like, we, I love when we disagree on this show, actually. I do think, like, you could have asked her, like, hey, I saw this. This is extremely fucked up.

Like, are you good? Yeah. Like, you just labeled a 14-year-old as school shooter energy. Like, you're actually giving- That was bad. You're giving psychopath, hoping his grandma dies in two years so you can get the ring. Psychopath. I don't think she really hopes the grandma dies in two years so she could get the ring. I genuinely, see, I'm kind of getting the energy that she does.

Interesting. I'm getting someone who's like this like genuine mean girl. The world revolves around her. I think it's super unhealthy everything she's posting on there because there's one thing about a Finsta and posting like a picture with you and like chopsticks in your mouth pretending you're a walrus. Yeah. About to blurb yourself on meatballs. I don't know. There's something different about that versus.

like posting your arguments with your fiancé and this like mantra manifestation kill hit list. Like it's just like super deranged in my head. So I do think like you could have approached the sister, but I don't think asshole in any way. Like he did need to find out probably should have came from her. But then again, like would she have even told the truth? I don't know. Yeah. It is really bad.

The issue is that I know people with sense of, with like, who have this sense of humor and like have like meme accounts or like FinC does or like things where like this fully is a joke to them. So I know there are people where it's like this really wouldn't come from any like I'm serious about this type of place. But then at the same time it's taking me back to when I was 19, not now when I'm 29. So it's like to to still be doing this. and for him to have no idea, that's really hard. Like, I was probably posting similar stuff about, like, guys I was dating at the time, but not, like, my fiance, like, people, like, I posted, like, screenshots with their names cut out of, like, conversations I was having on my Finster, like, arguments and, like, making, like, snarky little comments about it. Yeah, I think that's... And it's, like, to 12 people, like, that's basically a group chat. But it's still not good.

I know that's tough. And having the 14-year-old sister on there is really tough too. Yeah. No, you're right. Yeah. It's bad. It's bad. I don't know. I mean, some people might not think it's that serious. But I think regardless, he should know. Like, totally. I think like. And I understand him wanting to break up with her because of it because it is mean. And it is like, I'm supposed to be your partner. Yeah. And I also think it's one of those things. Like, you just need to know who. you're marrying. Like, I think a lot of people, and I don't know why I've been seeing it so much lately, people get married and then all of a sudden that switch flips. And it's like, would she let down this guard after they're married? And then it's like it's too late. Yeah. So I feel like he should know now.

Yeah. I think the only thing is that as the sister, I feel like it was a big jump to like immediately showing him, like, while he, like, at a party while he was talking about it, not having any conversations, like, but I also fully agree with you that this is like breakup worthy. And if I saw something like that, I would certainly break up with my partner for it. My only thing was that I don't think she like meant it in it. I actually want these people like dead type of way. I think she was kidding. But it's also, it's also like, yeah, you wouldn't want to marry someone who jokes about your family like that. No. No. No. Top comment on this one. You taught your sister a valuable lesson.

29. This is incredibly immature and you saved that Jake guy a lifetime of misery. Um, next comment. Yeah, sounds like mean girls shit. Burn book to burn list. Yeah, exactly. It does. It sounds like a teenager to like maybe early college age type stuff to do. It's honestly quite wild. I can't believe, like, everyone in the family, too, being like, that's a choice. Yeah. That's a choice. I know. Yeah. I also think what you said was really important of, like, they could get married and he still wouldn't really know who she is. Like, he might know that she has this type of sense of humor, but he wouldn't think he's, like, making fun of her with it. Yeah. Sorry, making fun of him with it.

No, I agree. And that's, you can't really come back from that. No, we don't have an update on this one. It is coming from a Reddit account that is six years old, has a verified email. I will say the person is extremely active on Reddit in like a bunch of subs, like R slash Ask Marketing, movie suggestions, confessions, blogging. So, like, they're a very active Reddit user, but I mean, six-year-old account, which kind of makes me, like, if it's an older account, I'm like, it does feel more legit. It's not someone that created a throwaway and is karma farming. This would be so specific to make up, I feel. It's very unique.

And I definitely, like, I can see this happening. Yeah, 100%. And, like, hey, you know, not everyone gets along with their in-laws. That's fine. Like, whatever, but you don't. Put it out there like this. I know. Go to therapy. Let me ask you a hypothetical. Okay. If it was in a group chat with her friends and she sent that text, would it be different than posting it on her Finsta at all?

Probably. I think the conversations maybe would be fine, but then the kill list is still where it gets tricky. What's that conversation, though? Like, even with friends, like, God, Michaela, his grandma has. the prettiest ring. Two years tops on that bitch. That's what I'm saying. I'm going to get that ring. I feel like yeah, like posting their conversations and saying like something snarky about it in a group chat to friends. Like if you texted that, it wouldn't be as like, oh, we can't come back from that. Yeah. But the killest is tough. Like she went on Canva and made a pyramid. It's giving like dance moms. Like she made a fucking pyramid with this guy's family members and then was like,

I know. You're at the bottom. Two years to live. Mid-tier, school shooter. That's not even a funny fucking joke. Like, you are, she's genuinely, like, she should be evaluated by a psychiatrist. I would never want to date someone who would do this, but I have had friends who would do this, and they were very funny. We have very different sentences of humor.

I'm like, I'm like, I'm. I'm scared. Send help. Yeah, but she's not going to kill anybody. If the grandma actually died, she wouldn't be happy about it. I'm so sorry, guys. You're probably so mad at me right now. This is someone, this is someone that, like, I could see her putting lead in grandma's, like, smoothies. No. No. Did you just see that woman? I just saw, like, a video about her. Her husband had been poisoning her with lead, and she ended up, like, passing out and having to be put on a ventilator. and then when they were like doing testing to figure out what was wrong, her body was so lined with lead. They were like, how is she even alive?

No, I did not hear about this. People are sick. Sick. Yeah, yeah. And I think the joke is bad enough. I'm just saying I think it's a joke. Maybe that will be the poll. Yeah, that's true.

Or no, she's dead serious. I'm going to lose this poll. Hey, you're maybe self-aware or maybe I'm in the clouds. Who knows? I don't know. This episode is brought to you by Hulu. Hulu's most addictive original series, Tell Me Lies, is back, and now streaming. Return to Beard College with everyone's favorite toxic couple, Lucy and Stephen,

as they and their friends face past indiscretions and destructive behaviors. From executive producer Emma Roberts, every secret and betrayal has consequences. Watch the all-new season of Tell Me Lies. Now streaming with new episodes Tuesdays on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. So this is coming from R slash off my chest. 10 days old now. It is titled, I, female 22, just found out my fiance, male 22, and I are related.

No. And we don't know what to do. Oh, no. Throw away because this is a mess. massive secret, and we are fully expecting it to blow up in our faces. I never thought I would post here, but the holidays uncovered something huge, and my fiance and I genuinely have no idea what to do. I grew up in a fairly large city in the South with just my mom, my younger brother, and me. My dad died of cancer when I was four, and my mom supported us by working as an accountant

for a mid-sized company. It was always just the big three, as my mom would say. I've never known anyone from her side of the family. She has always been extremely private about her upbringing, but as I got older, I picked up bits and pieces. Whenever we saw family, it was always my dad's side. My parents met as adults, but after my dad died, my grandpa really stepped up in my life. He took me to father-daughter dances, came to baptisms, and major milestones, and was always present. When I asked about my mom's side of the family, I usually got short answers like, quote, they're bad people, or we live far away for a reason. As far as I know, my mom left home when she was around 17 and never spoke to anyone from her family again. My grandparents on my dad's side never met anyone from her side.

Almost four years ago, I got into a great university far from home. My grandpa drove me down to campus and helped me move in. During orientation, I met Tom, not his real name. We clicked instantly. Same humor, same values, and a connection I had honestly never felt before. We became best friends, and very quickly and soon started dating. Tom is also from far away, but our hometowns are extremely far from each other. Over the years, I spent some holidays with his family, and he spent some with mine, my mom, my brother, and my grandpa, who passed away around Thanksgiving this year, all adored him and were very vocal about wanting me to marry him. His family accepted me just as warmly. Last year, his parents even

gave him a large gift to help pay for an engagement ring. He proposed this past August, right around the anniversary of when we met, we are planning to get married in June, shortly after we graduate. One more piece of context before the actual problem. Tom and I became sexually active about a month ago. We were both virgins when we met and had decided we wanted to wait until marriage. After he proposed, we decided together that we were comfortable taking that step, especially since I'm on birth control and we were already planning a wedding. Our parents assume we are waiting, but no one has ever directly asked.

Until now, this has not been a point of stress for us. Here is where everything falls apart. This past Christmas, I stayed with Tom's family. My mom and my paternal grandmother are in the middle of an argument, and I did not want to be involved in it. And my mom was completely fine with me going elsewhere. While at Tom's family gathering, his mom's parents came over, and we all had a big holiday meal. We opened gifts and had a great time. They even gave me several gifts with their last name on it.

At some point during the evening, Tom's grandmother made a comment to his mom, who all call Melissa. She said, quote, Melissa, do you remember when you and Rachel got me that planter for Christmas? I leaned over and quietly asked Tom who Rachel was. He looked confused and said it was his mom's twin sister who disappeared years ago. He had never met her. I immediately felt uneasy. My mother's name is Rachel. Although she has gone by her middle name, mine. Mine entire life. I also knew she had siblings, one sister and one brother. Tom had mentioned an uncle who passed away around 2010. At the time, I convinced myself it was just a strange coincidence. Later that night, people were moving around the house and Tom and I ended up sitting alone

together with some wine. I whispered something like, I didn't know your mom had a twin. I think at that exact moment, it hit both of us. About a year ago, while dating, we had already realized our mothers shared the same birthday. We thought it was funny and even mentioned it casually once to his mom. We both started internally freaking out, but kept it together for the rest of the visit. The next day, I flew home to see my mom. Before I got there, Tom and I came up with a plan. I told my mom I'd been talking to my gynecologist about some issues with my period and that

one of the intake questions asked whether there were twins in my family. I said I didn't know and I figured I should ask. For the first time in my life, my mom admitted that she was a twin. When I asked why she never told me, she went on a long, drunken rant about how her sister Melissa was, quote, a literal demon. My mom is, unfortunately, drunk most of the time. She also mentioned cutting her family off completely when she was young. What is wild is that my mom and Tom's mom look absolutely nothing. alike. One is tall and brunette, the other is short and blonde. At that point, everything clicked.

We confirmed last names, which were the same. I also learned my mom's maiden name for the first time in my life, which I know is strange, but she is intensely private. Tom and I are first cousins. We have no idea what to do next. Our parents have never met, but they are supposed to meet at our wedding in six months, We've already built a future around each other. Tom has a great job lined up, and I've been accepted early decision to my dream law school in the same city. Our relationship is genuinely strong. We are best friends and deeply in love. Ending the relationship feels like throwing away the greatest joy either of us has ever had. Continuing it feels terrifying. There are obvious biological concerns if we ever want children.

There is also the very real possibility of being disowned or pressured to split once the truth comes out. We are stuck and completely overwhelmed. What do we do? Oh my God. At first I was like, how is it at all possible that this wouldn't have come out sooner meeting everyone's families? So I thought about that.

Justin's family and my family did not meet until our engagement. Yeah, but twin sisters, that's, they're lucky that they were an identical twin sister. I mean, I guess then they would have known sooner. But like genetically, that would have been, then their siblings. Then they're like half siblings. Yeah. No, this is hard. We had not this exact story, but we had like a finding out, I think they were more distantly related before. And I just, feel like you can't, like you can't. See, I'm okay with it. Why? I know. God. How did they ever get past this? I mean, they weren't raised as family. I think it's very different if they're raised as family. We had a story ages and ages ago where this couple found out they were actually siblings. And they had both been put in the foster care system.

had both like what her he had been adopted and she kind of aged out of the foster care. I forget the exact details, but they had been dating for six years, done everything a couple does in six years. And they didn't want children anyways. And so I don't know if we ever got an official update, but like my take was overall, like you weren't raised as siblings. If you never would have found this out, you would have been fine. It wouldn't have impacted your life.

If you don't want any children, you're good. Yeah. I just feel like the issue is, I think it's more complicated if there was, I think the one we read, they already had kids together or something. Like they were already married. It was already like way down the line. Yeah. This is like they're not married yet.

And all of their family is going to find out. So like not only do they have to personally get over it in their head, everyone else is going to know. If they do ever have children, even if they adopt, they're going to. gonna find this out one day. It's like this lifelong like scarlet letter almost on like yeah. And then also I yeah, I don't know. I think you'd have to have a really honest like internal conversation with yourself of like will I ever fully get over this? Yeah. Because I wouldn't. You know? I it's like cheating. It's like if you, if someone, it's not like, well, kind of. Like, when a partner cheats on the other one and they decide to get back together,

you have to be like, will I conceivably ever really get past this? And then it's like not fair to keep doing it if I feel like this will always be a thing. 1,000 percent. Yeah. Can I develop amnesia and forget it happened? Or at least like enough to move forward and be intimate and this and that. It would be tough. I think on the story where they found out they were sitting.

siblings. She did mention she's like, like touching each other now is kind of like gross. But I feel like, oh God, people are just screaming in their cars and houses at the gym. Siblings is a lot worse, obviously, than first cousins. We're getting a lot of mean girls references today. Like, no, he's my second cousin. Yeah. And that's a thing. Like, everyone's like, oh, we're someone recently was like, we're third cousins. And I'm like, I don't even know what that means. No, I don't really understand the cousin.

Or like the second cousins once removed. What? No, I've had discussions with my mother about this and I don't really understand it how it works. I think, well, I would if, you know, I looked at a diagram of it. Yeah. But I don't know. I just don't think I don't think can get past this. I mean, they certainly can never have biological children together.

So that's a whole other thing of like, can we get past that? Yeah. If having kids was like one of their dreams. Right. Am I okay with that? And then also like, it's not only like you have to get past. it, but then all of, like, all the time you spend with your family, you're probably constantly, like, in your head thinking they know that we're related. Like, everyone knows we're, like, it just, it's such a barrier to put on, like, the freedom of how you live your life and express

things with your partner and, like, the family that you eventually build. Like, oh, my God, imagine being, like, a child, even if you were adopted and being, and then later, you're 18 years old or however old and you find out that your parents are related. And then it's like now they have to probably try to keep that a secret from people they date so that people don't look at them differently. And it's like this huge family secret when you're not even married yet. Like you don't have kids together yet. I know. And times really have changed because I, you always see this. Like Albert Einstein married his cousin. And he was awful by the way. Edgar Allan Poe. And by the way, and by the way Einstein's wife did his math for him. And he's

talked about that. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. I mean, that's so many men. Look at Scott's Fitzgerald. So many women have written up. Took Zelda's writing and then put her in a institution. Yeah. Like, don't even get me started. Crazy. But there was another person that like, I think Edgar Allan Poe married his cousin. Oh yeah, they were doing that all the time. When she was like child bride. It was really bad, really, really bad. And obviously times have changed somewhat more positively. And some areas and regards. So I'm like, okay, well, there's a lot of billions of people out there. Maybe you move on. But at the same time, I think even if these two moved on, they would always wonder what if. And that would always be the one that got away. I think they'll be wondering either

way. It's tough. It's tough. I'm not saying that they've done anything wrong. No. Because obviously, like, they did not know. This sucks. This is like a horrible situation. Out of all the fucking people in the world. And they are from two very different hometown. But your parents, your mothers are twins. And everyone is going to know the moment you have the wedding. You could just elope. But also then like think about how like beautiful and perfect your wedding day is. Now imagine that day, but you're stressed that everyone's going to find out the whole day that your siblings.

Oh yeah. No. Wolps cousins. But I don't know. I know. Yeah. Like there's just so many things. There are so many things you're signing up for. genetically and emotionally and signing them other people up for by doing this.

And again, it's not their fault. Like this, I just, I don't know. It's tough. It's, yeah. We do have some comments from O.P. Yeah. So I have comments right now sorted by Best on the post. The one at the very top says, I'm sorry, that sounds incredibly painful and also the plot of a movie.

Yeah. O.P. responds, I certainly feel like I'm living in a horror movie. There's another comment here from someone. As I've said above, the cousin thing is one thing, but your mother meeting her estranged twin at your wedding is going to cause absolute carnage. This must be aired before the wedding, and you need to face the possibility of your mother making you choose.

You say she's drunk most of the time, so I'm guessing she isn't the best mom, else you wouldn't have added that information. Tom's mother also needs to know. Or there's another option. You tell your mother, she demands you choose, you choose Tom, disinviting your family to the wedding, you say nothing to Tom's mother. It is not recommended, but this is all going to go disastrously wrong. I think if I could accept he was my first cousin, I would just elope and keep the family separate as far as possible.

So in one situation, you're having a secret from your family the rest of your life. Yeah. And the other situation, one of you is cutting off your family for the rest of your life. Like, it's a no win. This is, no, there's no good situation or, yeah, you break up with currently the love of your life. And it just fucking sucks. I know. O.P. responds to that and says, I fear if we tell our mothers, then our whole support system will fall out beneath us if we don't break up. It's almost like we have to be willing to break up if we tell them. And neither of us want to break up at all.

It's an impossible situation. I don't blame them. And if they do. stay together. It's not their fault that they're in this situation. It's just, I want to know what they end up doing so badly. I know. So someone does say, do one of those DNA tests and see how much DNA you share. My grandparents found out they were third cousins after they got married. Their parents knew as well, not quite the same, but they made it work. O.P. responds, this is good advice, but there's also some blissful ignorance here. Like, at what percent do we draw the line? Doing it by 5% versus 6% versus...

I mean, how... Like, we only have 23%. We're fine. That's so... That's quite a lot. It's like, well, it's kind of like one of those things, like, what's the point in knowing that? Like, hey, we're first cousins. It is what it is. Like, yeah.

Yeah, the DNA percentage could vary, but like, does it make it any easier mentally to digest? I don't think so. So we do get a bit of an update. No way. It's a little bit of an edit here. I didn't expect this to get so much attention. Are you kidding me? Look at this story.

But I appreciate all the kind words and encouragement. I also appreciate everyone who reached out kindly in my DMs. Sorry, I haven't responded yet. As you'll soon read, my life is a little upside down. I wrote the original post in the early afternoon. At the time, my mother was out buying my brother knew clothes. for his upcoming semester. I decided I would confront her after dinner.

Tom and I agreed that I would tell my mom that night, and then we would figure out how to tell his parents. Dinner came, and I wasn't eating. My brother kept asking why, so I eventually gave in and told my mom I had something important I needed to talk to her about privately. She seemed to recognize the seriousness of my tone and told my brother to go to the gas station to buy scratchers.

When he left, I told her everything, starting with, quote, this is really big news, but I want you to know that I intend to continue my relationship with Tom. I told her I'd been at Tom's house and learned that Tom's mom

had an estranged twin and that I was confident it was her. I said the full legal names of Tom's mom and his maternal grandparents, I knew I was right by the shade of red my mother turned.

She kept saying, what? And is this a fucking joke? Avin showed her Tom's mom's Facebook. My mother has no social media and never has, as far as I know. At first, my mom went silent while I sobbed. Then she erupted. She told me I needed to leave Tom immediately and never speak to him again. I told her I wasn't going to do that. She started yelling about how Tom's family was spreading lies about her to me. They do not even know. She was being paranoid. I told her I didn't need to tell them anything, that she could keep this secret and simply never meet them.

Since his family is paying for the entire wedding, I suggested she not attend, so she would never have to interact with them. That suggestion was not taken well. Well, yeah. She called me every name in the book, whore, liar, bitch, cunt, etc. She screamed at me until she was blue in the face

and told me she would not allow me to return to school for my final semester. Around this time, my brother came home. He is a pretty low-key guy and does not handle conflict well, so he went into the adjacent living room and scrolled on his phone. I told my mom I would marry Tom regardless, and that if she chose to not be a part of my life, that was her decision. She called me ungrateful and continued screaming. Things escalated again when she demanded that I hand over my phone. Long story, I am actually on Tom's family's plan. She also demanded that I go to my room. I said no, that I'm an adult.

And she threw a three-quarters full bottle of botanist gin at me. It hit my arm and shattered on the floor. This is when my brother stepped in and pulled me out of the house. We could hear her breaking things and swearing as we stood outside. Since my flight is scheduled early in the morning, my brother drove me to his friend's apartment near the airport. He works at the airport and lives about 15 minutes away. I'd never met this friend before.

My mother texted me multiple times, asking where I was and calling me awful names again, but nothing else happened. I'm writing this now from the airport, waiting aboard my flight. I have a bruise on my arm, but it is not serious. Tom thinks I should have called the police,

but I could just not do that to my mom. Even if that ends up being the last time I ever speak to her, my brother brought all of my belongings to me around 2 a.m. and then took me to a hotel connected to the airport. He is a saint. This is only half the update. After I left the house, during the drive to my brother's friend's place, I called Tom hysterically. He told me he thought he should tell his parents, and I agreed.

After we hung up, around 10.30 p.m., Tom pulled his parents aside and told them everything. They had seen pictures of my mother on my Instagram before and had not recognized her, but once they looked again, they confirmed it was the Rachel that they knew. Melissa cried and cried Tom's dad, I'll call him Richard, said the situation was very strange. They asked Tom a lot of probing questions,

including whether we had been sexual and whether my mother knew. Tom told them everything. They were disappointed in him, but they did not dwell on that. After Tom explained what had happened with my mom earlier that night, Richard and Melissa completely changed their tone.

They told him, him, they still supported our marriage, but needed to make a game plan for how to handle this moving forward. They texted me, saying incredibly kind things, telling me nothing had changed, that I was still their daughter, and that they loved me. Melissa also shared why my mom became estranged from them. Now, this is only her side, and I may never hear my mom's, but apparently when my mom was in high school, she started to unravel emotionally. She would yell at her mother constantly and accuse her of favoring Melissa. Their father was the coach of the girls' basketball team, which Melissa played on, but my mom did not, and my mom felt rejected by both parents.

During their senior year, my mom ran away with an older boy, not my dad. His family knew my grandparents well, so they assumed she was safe. But my mom told them she would never speak to them again, and she kept her word. The last they heard about her was, three years later, when the boy's parents said that they had broken up and she moved to another city. This was the city where she later met my dad. They wrote letters, she never answered, and eventually respected her wish for no contact. All of this came secondhand from Tom, who heard it from his mom while I was coming down from hysteria in an airport hotel room at dawn. The details may be fuzzy, but that is what I know. How I'm doing, I'm heartbroken and scared.

I've only seen my mother be violent once before when she threw a brick at my brother for sneaking a girl in. I was always the perfect child, and now I cannot imagine her ever speaking to me again. It feels like I chose the people she felt rejected by over her. My heart breaks for my mom, but I love Tom, and I do not believe it is fair to either of us to abandon this love. I am also scared of what she might do next.

She went to my grandmother's house and my brother's girlfriend's house trying to find me. My brother refused to tell her where I was. She knows where my apartment on campuses, I have considered moving in with Tom for safety, but his parents asked us to stop being intimate until marriage, and I do not think they would approve of us living together. That said, they have both been incredibly kind. They paid for my hotel stay. Tom was nervous about me staying at my brother's friend's apartment.

I was mostly afraid of the roaches. They are texting me as I write this, sending florist options and talking excitedly about our wedding. Overall, I am okay, but I am terrified of the unknown. How is Tom doing? He's very anxious being away from me and incredibly grateful to my brother. He wants me to block my mom's number, but I'm not ready.

He encouraged me to make an appointment with my therapist, and we are hoping to attend a few sessions together. He has apologized endlessly, and feels like he should have figured this out sooner. But it's not his fault. If we had known earlier, we might never have had the love we now share, and I believe that love is worth it.

This morning, his father warned him not to share this secret with anyone. Tom is nervous about how our grandparents would react if they found out. If anything else happens, I will update again. We are still reading all of the comments. The encouragement, especially from those who urged us to tell our parents

gave us the strength to do the right thing. Even though I regret telling my mother, I think it was better than lying and creating a long-term deception. Thank you all for the support. Feel free to ask any questions. It genuinely helps us think through every angle. Wow.

I mean, talk about originally an impossible situation than another impossible situation on top of that with the parents. God, yeah, what do you do? The mother's reaction, was abusive. That was awful. But then it's also the tragedy of like her life in general of like already being the black sheep in the family. Like I know that the twin dynamic can either go like so well and their best friends and like everything's amazing. Or it's the opposite of like always

comparing yourselves and sort of them, they're being like the golden one and then the one who kind of feels like they never measure up. And then she gets married and then he dies. And then he dies. and then her daughter also chooses the other family over her. And then like that family has the perfect reaction and they're so supportive and they're so wonderful while she's like, you know, throwing things. And it's just, it's very tragic. It is. I know.

And I think what's interesting here is that their tone shifted kind of the minute they found out the mom's reaction, which I get like that's horrible. that was abusive, we're going to support you. But it almost feels... They're once again positing themselves as like the perfect family. Yeah. And the only problems that happened between them was because she was such a mess. She unraveled emotionally.

Yeah, to me, I'm like there's so much going on here that it's like it's hard to like pick out what you even focus on with this one. Yeah. But that does kind of ring bells for me because I'm like, why are you trying so hard? Like, you just found out your first cousins and yet you're still sending her florist options. Yeah. Like, why are you trying that hard?

I'm moving on very quickly. Why are you being so supportive? It almost makes me feel like something else is up here. And I do think there's a lot more to the mom's side. Like, I genuinely don't think someone runs away at 17 from a loving home. Right. Like, there probably was a lot to, like, you were the golden child. She was the black.

and she left. And there's a comment here that OP responds to. And someone is like, odd man out here, but your mom's past behaviors, decisions and reactions are very reminiscent of SA from a family member. And so like people are really diving into this to just be like, no guarantees, like not saying that is what happened, but like there's alarm bells on both sides. I agree. I think there's something about the almost like too perfect reaction. The two perfect family. And a lot of the time, like, victims are the ones who seem crazy and awful and unlikable because they're the ones whose lives were affected, whereas, like, the perpetrator is usually fine.

Like, they're not facing the effects of abuse. And so, yeah, victims aren't likable. And that's why, like, the very charming, like, perpetrator always seems to, like, get away with it in situations. not saying that that's what happened here. Obviously, we're kind of like taking leaps to get here. Yeah. But again, like you said, the immediate switch up of like, oh, she's reacting like that. Like if she had had the perfect reaction and been like, oh, I'm accepting like, this is fine. I'm going to support you no matter what. Would then they have done an opposite to that? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. It's almost like one more win against her that now they get her daughter. And that's like a boon.

I don't know if we're off base here. It's just. Yeah, I definitely, like, the reaction is insane. It wasn't okay. But I completely understand it at the same time. Like, I'm putting myself in the position of like my family life and my home life was so bad that at 17, I left everyone and everything I knew. Right. To just move away and start a life on my own. Like, yeah. That is extremely hard. And I would imagine things were horrible. And it sounds like the other. family, like, they're very well off. Like, she didn't gain anything by running away from them. She could have had the financial support. Like, she can't afford to pay for the wedding. And then, like, hearing that from the daughter of like, oh, well, then maybe you just shouldn't come. You don't come to the wedding. They'll be at the wedding with me. Like, that's nightmare. Like, that's crazy. I am just a story. Perplexed. I know. And again, like, it's so much easier, I think, to have opinions on these first cousins getting married.

as people who aren't in the situation. Obviously, like, being actually in that situation is so much more difficult than it is to have an opinion on the internet or on a podcast. So, like, I can't really, like, judge them for that. I know. It's just like, oh, this is tough. It is. It is so, so challenging. And, like, Justin and I, we've had a story where, like, he's been the one sitting across from me reading similar vibes. And, like, I think, we've even kind of talked about like what would we do today if we found out yeah we were related like what would we do yeah and for us like it wouldn't change anything like pursue other means of having kids yeah but like we're in so deep right now that like yeah it wouldn't change anything

and that's kind of where they're at I don't know how to proceed forward with mom like I think if she continues to be very aggressive and abusive. Like I do think you have to go low contact, if not no contact. But I would really try to have an honest conversation with her and be like, can you please tell me your side? Like, why did you leave? What happened? Because I, like, I want to understand why your reaction was what it was. Like, I didn't feel good about that. Like, you threw a bottle at me. That wasn't okay. I just want to understand where you're coming from and try to, like, hear her out. I mean, there's some dark shit here.

Something's off. Something is off. I don't know what it is, but something just feels off. And after that, after that conversation and giving her her time, and obviously it's a phone call, which is also probably safer and easier for you. But after that, then you can proceed forward. I mean, you're like, O.P. is like steadfast like I'm marrying Tom I love Tom our love is worth it and like that's how you feel

today then you have to proceed forward and that is what it is a lot of people did comment make sure marriage to your first cousin is legal in the state you're in opi did respond it is legal in their state not the state Tom is from wow they never planned on living there anyways so no issue but like that is another consideration of like there are so many more levels to like can i just emotionally get past this. Yeah. The one line that did kind of like throw me for a loop here is like, quote, Tom is nervous about how our grandparents would react if they found out. And that's where you're like, my grandma is his grandma, but we're getting married. Like that was the only line that was like, but they're also not your grandparents. A lot of it is like that for me. I'm going to be

on. Like, it's really tough. Like, it's a tough. And then even on top of that, I feel like, I feel like, She will be committing to not having a relationship with her mother. I believe it once she marries Tom and is really integrated into his family, like, that's sort of it. Like, they'll probably discourage her making up with her mother. Like, Tom already wants her to block her mom. Like, I just don't know. Like, not only is it weird for them that they're related, but she's also leaving that

part of her life behind. I know. And I think a lot of people, too, would be like, well, you know, she'd did mention her mom is a functioning alcoholic and blah blah blah. And it's like, yeah, I think like parents can be super unhealthy, but like it also can still be hard to cut them off. Like that's not an easy thing she's doing. And OP does provide another comment here kind of because people were asking like, what's your mom like? Not really a loss. Like they were kind of implying like you're maybe better off just marrying Tom and not talking to her. And,

O.P. responded to someone as like, thank you. This comment's very kind. My mother is a functional alcoholic who cuts people off very quickly. She starts a lot of drama, but she has always loved me and provided for me. I was valedictorian of my high school class, and I honestly could not have done it without my mother, who did everything she could to secure me the best tutors and resources. That being said, I fear her reaction will be harsh. And as a single mother, I don't know. It's just hard because I can see how the mother ended up where she is today. And it's like after so much tragedy, and it's like at what point do we give up on people like that?

And just be like, well, you've become a part of the system of abuse too. So yeah. This is so fucking hard. Where do you guys fall on this one? Are you team move forward, get married, just let everything. land where it's going to land or are you kind of in the boat of like, yeah, this is going to be a big heartbreak, but it's probably best if you just go your separate ways and move on. I would put off the wedding. I would move it later. I think that's a good idea. Give it time to be like,

okay, we think we feel this way. But if a few months pass and we're starting to be like, okay, this actually is weird, or like I am feeling things that, you know, It's so soon to know how you're actually going to feel about it. Very true. I would be like, wait a year. See how we feel over that year. If we really do get past it and like the people that we love and our family around us, like they also don't seem weird.

That's one thing. Yeah. That's a really good point. And then it begs the question of like, are they getting married so young so shortly after college for religious reasons? Yeah. Obviously they were waiting until marriage. they've hooked up maybe once or twice, like kind of by the sounds of this. Very religious, conservative family. Like, don't live together. No sex. Have you been intimate? So there's kind of

that context playing there. And the mom being like, I'm going to take your phone away. I'm not going to let you go back to school. This was very, there were like some comments where this really felt like young people. Yeah. And OP even says, like, my mom is very conservative as well. Like, Tom's family is very conservative. So there are some comments from O.P. kind of alluding to that. But I guess like that is interesting because it's like, okay, we've waited this long, hold off sex for a few more months, see if you guys can, you know, be okay with this. But at the same time, you do get married, you do start having sex. That's when you start having a problem of like, this is when it gets hard for us is the intimacy side of it. Yeah.

Because we know we're cousins now. And Tom will need to get a vasectomy. OPE does say we are firm on like going the adoption. route. Like we're good. It's good that they've like tackled that conversation already. A lot, a lot of comments from OPU guys. I've really gotten into most of them. But God. I know. What a doozy. What a dozy. I can't believe it. I will say the comments on the best of Redditor update were like talking about how the roaches were like their favorite part of it. Like I was mostly afraid of the roaches. Yeah. And then they go, I really for just a second thought, oh, that's nice that the roaches are so

involved in the wedding planning. And someone replies and goes, ha ha, Ogtha has nice and thoughtful relatives. And then someone goes, Ogtha mentioned. Who's Ogtha? I have no idea who Ogtha is.

Original. No. No. So this is apparently some Reddit lore. Oh, we might be taking a little bit of a detour here. And learning about Ogtha because I think you're going to love it.

I think you're going to love it. Is there any chance I could pee really fast? Oh, we are totally taking a pee break because I'm going to pee my pants. I think I had so many drinks. When we continue, Ogtha. Upon further review, Ogtha is definitely good, but it is a little long. Oh, it's a story. It's another Reddit post.

Oh, okay. It's Ogtha, O-G-T-H-A, Ogtha-O-G-T-H-A. I mean, if you literally Google Ogtha, the Reddit post about it, is coming up. I can't believe this has never come up before. Yeah. I've never heard this story. There's not really a pronunciation for it that I'm seeing. So I have no freaking idea. But because it is a bit longer, I'm going to read. two more shortish ones and then we will circle back we're going to get into that because i feel like it'd be by the looks of it a good one to kind of cap us off wow i'm excited based on the title i think you're going to love it i think you're going to love it okay i'm so so so excited for this next one i saw the trailer for this movie and i was immediately like yes i need to see it and i'm not even a horror

like scary movie film girl like everyone knows that but this has rachel macadams in it wait okay yeah i saw this trailer okay doesn't it look insane i was very confused at first because i thought it was going to be like a classic workplace oh you know drama and then i was like oh it looks so so so good yeah i literally you guys go watch the trailer for this movie it's called send help and it is just so good. And Rachel McAdams looks amazing. It looks like she's going to get so into this role. And like, she's just such a good actress. And I'm pretty sure like Dylan O'Brien is in it too. Oh, yes, yes. I was confusing him in my head. I thought it was one of the Franco brothers. But no, I think it is Dylan O'Brien. Yeah. Dylan O'Brien's in it. It's just, it looks so, so, so good.

So this next story is actually brought to you by 20th Century Studios. Oh my God. Hey guys. So it's from Sam Ramey, director of the Evil Dead and Drag Me to Hell comes the new film. Send Help. It's about Linda Little, Rachel, my God, I'm an overworked, an overlooked employee who ends up stranded on a deserted island with her absolute nightmare of a boss. So this next one, we're getting into. a work story. I hear you guys. You've wanted more work stories. We're going to see what a nightmare

work situation looks like in the Reddit world right now. Yay. Yeah. Okay. So this one is coming from AIT-A-H. It's two months old. Someone actually sent it to me on Instagram, which I really appreciate because it's a good one. It is titled, Someone at Work stole my chair. So I had them arrested. Oh. I got a new job in sales working for a company that sells access control systems, CCTV systems, etc. The chair in my cubicle was uncomfortable as fuck. So I day three brought in my own Herman Miller-Airon chair.

On day four, it was missing. I looked around and another sales rep was sitting in it. I asked for it back, but he basically told me to fuck off. I went and spoke to the owner of the company. he told me that the chairs aren't reserved. They are first come first serve. I explained that I own the chair and it cost me $1,800. Oh my God. He told me that I need to come in earlier if I want that chair. I'm taking it home then. The owner of the company is telling you also go fuck yourself. The next day, the same guy was sitting in it when I got to the office. I told him to give a back or I was going to

call the cops. He refused. So, I called the cops. It was quite the scene, but in the end, he admitted that he took my $1,800 chair. I was prepared. I had the receipt, which showed the serial number. Wow. Yes, Aaron chairs have serial numbers. They asked me if I wanted to press charges. My new boss said, I would be terminated if I had him arrested. So I said, absolutely. I want to. I want to to press charges. My new boss fired me on the spot. Oh, so I carried my chair out with me as I was leaving. And yes, the cops arrested the dude who took my chair. He admitted to it. The dude who took my chair has been in the industry for about 15 years, but he's going to lose his security license, which means he won't be able to work in the industry. He's going to lose his job. I don't give a

shit, he shouldn't have stolen my chair. Am I the asshole for making this dude lose his job? They had me. Then they lost me. You had me in the first half. Obviously, this wasn't, like, these people sucked. And initially calling the cops, I was like, you know what, sure, I'm on some petty shit today. Like, well, I don't know, actually. But like, you tried everything else. I do feel like after he admitted to stealing the chair, there maybe could have been some, like, middle step before pressing charges of, like, coming to some kind of agreement. But I don't know. I think they maybe took it too far.

I probably would have just taken the chair home or gotten it engraved with my name or something or, like, taken it to HR or... Yeah. I think they did overreact. Oh, this escalated. quickly. For fun, I want to be like, yeah, ha ha, ha, like I'm on your side, get crazy with it. But in real life, I do think, I think that's a bit much. Also, like, I understand the chair sucked. You wanted to bring your own chair in, $1,800 chair. Like, if it wasn't that guy stealing it, like,

who's to say that someone wouldn't have stolen it and taken it home and out of the building? Like, it's a risk. Okay, he shouldn't have taken your chair. The boss, not a good boss, nightmare of a boss not having your back and going up to him and being like, hey, John, you know, so-and-so brought that chair in. Take any other chair. Take any other chair guy. Yeah. Bad boss. But to call the cops, have him arrested, lose his security clearance. I think you went too far. Now you've kind of become the nightmare power tripping person. I agree. I agree. I was like, at first with the title, I was like, okay, this is definitely overreacting. Then they were telling the story.

I was like, you know what? I'm on their side. Then it got to the end and I was like, nope, I'm off again. That's like it's too much too far. It's too much. I feel like there has to be a better way of dealing with the assholes. And like my petty response to that would honestly just be taking the chair back home. It wouldn't be like, okay, I'm going to lose my job.

You're going to lose your job. Like, you're also maybe going to go to jail. The police are involved. Like, that's... It's too much drama for a chair. These people are. are assholes, but at what point do you also drop lower than their level, you know? I know.

This is a, I feel like this is going to be another divisive, divisive one where people are like, I don't know, because the boss, horrible. But again, like, you kind of were so aggressive and like, yeah, I don't think we should be calling the police on people so willy-nilly in this world that we're living in. I don't know. It is weird. There must have been other ways of making your point. Honestly, get a leash on it.

Yeah. Like, do you remember in a bike lock or something? Now, them overreacting doesn't negate the other two being assholes. No. No. Like, let's be clear about that. Like, going to your boss and being like, hey, the chairs here are really uncomfortable. I've got back issues.

Yeah. I want to bring my own chair, but I don't want anyone else to steal it. I spend a lot of money on this. Is there a way that we can make this work? Or you get more comfortable chairs for the office. I know. This person kind of is a diva, though, like needing an $1,800 chair. Top comment says this.

Due to lower back issues, I always provided my own desk chair and made sure it was clearly marked that it was my personal property. I also used a bicycle cable to secure my chair to my desk at the end of the day. One coworker had his chair disappear. So he sent an email to the entire global company address book. It was hysterically funny to read the response emails. Wait, is this a thing? Like, please let us know if stealing chairs at the office and bringing your own chair and then

that chair getting stolen. Let us know if that's a thing. I know about the food. I know that bringing your own food and putting that in the company fridge and that getting stolen is a big thing. That's huge. But let me know about the chairs. That's huge.

I think it is because someone else responds. I worked in a call center years ago and had a coworker who crazy glued. a big old sign with large letters. Blank's chair. Do not touch. It worked. No one touched her chair. Right, because then you're the asshole in a chair with a big ass sign on the back that says so-and-so's chair.

Oh, I'd literally get one of those, like, license plates with my name on it and, like, zip tie it. Screw it in there. Screw it in there. Yeah. Like, I would be aggressively making sure that people knew that this was my chair. And that would be petty, but it wouldn't be getting someone fired and calling the police on them. It feels like an overreaction to me. But again, like the boss kind of instigated it where it was like, if you have him arrested, you're fired. And then I feel like

O.P. has one of those personalities that's like very like, you go low, I go lower. Yeah. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. A little bit. Clearly, this is a story of a nightmare fuel, but a deserted island has to be worse. Directed by Sam Ramey, send help is the ultimate work trip for. From hell. It's a real killer. Only in theaters and 3D, January 30th. Oh, wow. I didn't realize it was coming out so soon.

Shall we go? Yeah. It's got to have the little footstools. Yeah. A little recliner. Is it weird if I bring my own blankie? No, I always do. And I wear fuzzy socks, too.

Okay. I just need something to cover my eyes during the scary part. I just want to see Rachel McAdams. Ah! Okay, moving on to this next one. Do we want one more work one? Yeah. Keep on a little work train here.

I feel like we don't do that many work once. I know. And people have been asking for them. So I feel like this is a good one. And the title really intrigued me. I haven't read it at all. But the title, I was like, I think it's going to be good. Yeah.

So this is coming from our friend, Direct Caterpillar 77 posting it. God. Every time he puts together a story, it's magic. I know. Again, and then you see Direct Caterpillar 77, you're like, okay, bad. Like, it's going to be good. Mm-hmm. So this one.

One is titled, My Co-worker Told Everyone We're Married. We're not even dating. Oh no, scary. You're in danger, girl. Last year, I left on a leave of absence for a few months to take care of my elderly parents. Then I returned to work. Apparently, during that time, one of my coworkers began telling people we were married. Not as in workwife, as in legally married. And everyone believed him. Honestly, I had no idea he had any feelings for me, and I don't think he knew I would be coming back. I'm an introvert. I keep my personal life private and don't talk much about myself. But the fact is, I have a husband, not him, who I've been married to for 10 years.

Ten years. Not wanting to cause him embarrassment, I privately went to our boss, explained the situation behind closed doors, and asked for a department transfer. even though he's never sexually harassed me or made a move on me, I'm very uncomfortable being around him right now and don't want any contact with him. My boss agreed, said she would speak to him, and though she didn't have the authority to move me to another department, she would see to it that we wouldn't be put on a team together and kindly offered to adjust the schedule so he wouldn't be in the office at times when I was there. I've tried to handle this whole mess as discrely as I can, but today I lost it. He walked into the break room while I was in there, and I basically

yelled at him in front of everyone there, saying I'm not his wife, and to stop telling people were married. I know this was not the most mature way to handle the situation, but I was at my wits end. What do I do? So this is originally getting posted on Ask a Manager. Okay. And Ask a Manager is like that blog with Allison. She is like the all-being managerial woman. She knows all. H.R. expert. I don't think she overreacted at all. He's publicly saying this to whoever. Like a creep. She's trying to like privately handle it. She's offering to change departments herself, not even like he has to leave or he has to change departments. Like this very much is not an overreaction. I would also snap. And it causes confusion for your relationship. It's

also like potentially scary. Is it because he's obsessed with her? Is it coming from like that type of place? Is he just trying to seem cool? Like what? You don't know and it's scary not knowing. Very. And either way, it's like, why am I? Like, what's your fixation with me? Why me? Yeah. You don't know me. Why are you telling me what we're married? And he's not even getting fired. Like, I don't even think him getting fired for that would be an overreaction. A lot of companies have like policies about working with your spouse. or someone you're dating. So what if this impacted O.P. negatively at work because of that?

Yeah. Like, it's just, it's not okay. So Allison actually asked our writer, what did the coworker do when he was getting yelled at? And the writer responds, I think he was in shock because he said nothing but immediately left the room. However, there was definitely a palpable tension between me and my colleagues who had witnessed the whole thing. As I said before, I didn't want to cause a scene or embarrass him publicly.

Unfortunately, I was in the moment, and I let my emotions get the best of me. I fear there can be no good resolution to this situation. Either I've just exposed him as a liar to my coworkers, or they think I'm the one line, since he'd apparently been telling people we were married for quite some time. Oh, that's scary. Since I can't transfer departments, I'm entertaining the idea of putting in my two weeks, but I'm still emotionally reeling from what happened and I don't want to do anything impulsive

or make the situation worse. Yeah, no, the fact that he's been saying this for a long time. At first when I heard this story, I thought it was she left the company or something. And so he thought he was in the clear to be like, oh, and by the way, like, you know, my girlfriend goes to another school type thing. But it sounds like he's been planning this seed for a long time

and that's just like a very scary personality. like to just confidently lie to people about being in a relationship with someone who works with them. Like, say you're in a relationship with a completely made up person that no one knows if you're going to lie about dating someone. I know. I do feel like more conversations have to be had to, like, get to the bottom of where this is coming from. Yeah, because, like, what is the root of this? Like, we've had people lie in the past that they're, like, they're, like, they're, like, they're, sister was their girlfriend. Right. I think. I think that's what it was because their sister,

like everyone thought she was hot at work and so the O.P. wanted to look cooler in front of everyone. Yeah. Weird. Weird. All weird. Yeah. I don't know. But like, yeah, what is the core reason here? So there are comments on the Ask a Manager blog. Someone goes, speechless, jaw gaping. Next one. Me too. I can't imagine what would possess someone, co-worker, to do such a thing. Even more so, I can't imagine how co-worker thought this would pan out. Seriously, how did he expect her to react? O.P., I'm angry for you. By the way, you did nothing wrong.

Even the blow-up was, in my opinion, legitimately called for. And O.P. does respond. Yes. In the comments. I am O.P., and thank you all for your reassuring and empathetic responses. is, I like to assume the best in people, that maybe he just had a crush that spun out of control, or as one of you had said, perhaps he has low self-esteem and wanted to prove he was likable or normal. That's why I felt badly about handling it the way I did, though I know he is the one at fault here.

That said, we are both in our 40s, and so I feel someone that age, theoretically, should have outgrown that high school insecurities type behavior. I've been able to avoid him since the incident without feeling too much like I'm walking on eggshells. And my boss, with my permission, also informed her boss, and they've both been very supportive. Supportive, but he's still in the same department as her? Yes. Right. And we get an update that comes eight months later.

Wow. Mm-hmm. Wow. I didn't expect my question would even be published, let alone, received so many supportive comments from the Ask a Manager community. I only wish my bosses and coworkers could have been that understanding. Oh, God. About a month after the break room scene,

I still felt like I was walking on eggshells to avoid my husband. And I noticed the attitudes from my manager and coworkers changing for the worse. And I could have told you this might happen of immediately, she's like seen as the bitch in this situation. What? Yeah. How? Yeah.

How? I would have brought in a big ass fucking picture of me and my husband and put it on my desk, multiple pictures. I would have been like, no, this dude is crazy. How did this get flipped on her? Because that's how it works in this world. I ended up leaving for a similar job that pays better and is just a healthier environment overall. I hate how we call everything and everyone toxic nowadays, but that truly was a toxic environment in retrospect, and the lack of support for management and HR was finally the big

red flag that sent me packing. Some of the commenters mentioned stalking and safety because the man seemed a bit obsessed. While I've seen the guy a few times around town, there hasn't been any interaction between us, and I don't think he or any of my former co-workers know where I work now. Nobody's attempted to contact me, and I can breathe easier. I wish everyone at my old job well. I hope they can learn from this situation, and I thank everyone who commented for their encouragement. Yeah. What the heck? I know a girl, and like just to speak to this being a very plausible situation, I know a girl who was just last week on her close friends posting about how she'd found out that multiple guys in her area had been like, lying to people that they'd slept together, that they dated, and just how, like, violating it feels

to have people, like, talk about having an intimate relationship with you when you have it as, like, a form of bragging. And it's, like, the reality of it is so much more violating than it just sounds in a story like that. It's horrible, especially when you, like, find out about the intimate details of what got said. Like, this happened to me in high school, and I didn't find out until I was in college that this ex-boyfriend was spreading all these rumors. It's just like... It feels like worms crawling on your skin. Like, it's just, it's so icky to be like...

It's horrible. Used like that. It's horrible. I don't know. As like a prop to somebody else's story. And that, honestly, that's like the best case scenario for him is that he was just doing that to brag and seem cooler because him being, like, obsessed with her in this scary stalker way is even worse.

So there's really like no situation here where he's just this like good faith, like sweet guy who made a mistake. I mean, he'd been spreading that for a long time and using her to like prop himself up in that story. And then even when this all came out, he didn't do the right thing and be like, I'm so sorry. That was weird of me. I had a crush on you or whatever. And I accidentally said it once. And then the lie got out of hand. Like he should have come forward and apologize, switch departments.

the company, whatever when that happened. But instead, this, like, got turned on her for, like, embarrassing him and, like, well, he's been doing that to her. I also just, I still don't understand the lie. Why not say, oh, we're dating? Yeah. Like, why did you jump to marriage? And I do think it's kind of weird. She's seen him around town a few times. Like, unless it's a really small town. But like, that is still kind of weird to me. And again, a bad boss. What is up with these bad bosses? And I already was like when she said they were being supportive, I was like, how supportive are they really being if they're saying you could switch departments and like change your life because of this lie about you? And like nothing's actually being done about him. Like how supportive are they really being? And like I am curious more so the HR perspective on this. Yeah.

So Allison's response was don't quit your job. You were in the right. He was in the wrong. It's understandable that you lost it. Ideally, of course, you would never lose your cool at work or cause a scene, but he's the one who did something wrong here. He should be exposed as a liar. And what the hell is wrong with your coworker doing something like this?

Yeah. Why is he allowed to publicly say that about her, but she can't publicly respond to it? And be honest. Like, he's allowed to publicly lie about her, but she's not allowed to publicly be honest about him. The post goes on to say, I think you'll feel much better

if you go and talk to your coworkers who are there, say something like, I want to apologize for losing my cool in the break room. When I returned from my leave of absence dealing with a family issue, I found out that Derek has been telling people we are married. We've never had any involvement at all.

So this was really bizarre. Feels violating. I'm at my wit's end. And then I'm curious what the response to the update was. Yeah. In my dream world, they would have had like a face-to-face showdown where he would have said exactly why he did this. Yeah.

But it sounds like what they're saying is she confronted him. And then we kind of don't really get the information of what happened after that before she left the job. Well, and the thing is, Allison usually like will point to HR rules or like, oh, that's our harassment. That's a blah, blah, blah. Like you should go to HR. But it doesn't even seem like anything it was pointed out. there was no update response from Allison in regards to O.P.'s update. So it's kind of like there wasn't maybe even legally anything that could be done. It's like, oh, that's an office

rumor. He's not sexually harassing you. It is what it is. Sorry. Yeah, because it's such a like what falls under that category. This is such a unique situation. It's probably not written out in the rule book. So that's so crazy. Ah, bad boss. I just like. shitty job, but honestly worked out for the better here. Like, O.P. Left, a toxic work environment, went to a similar job, is getting paid more. So unfortunate stress that they had to deal with, not their fault, but worked out for the better. Yeah. I mean, that's a unique one. That's, that's a different office rumor. Because he had to, like, at least be a little stressed that he'd be confronted with the truth of it. If they're in the same department and, like,

He's been spreading this for a long time. How did he feel so comfortable lying like that? Cockiness. Yeah. Did he just think she was so nice that she wouldn't say anything? Or he would just brush it off like, you guys, sorry about that. She really doesn't want anyone at work to know we're married. Sorry.

Wow. She's just a little crazy today. That's diabolical. Sorry, guys. I'd be like, here's my lock screen photo of me with my real husband. Here are our wedding pictures. Dude, I would have immediately brought in like pictures of me and my husband. I would have gone to office max.

Just like around your desk. Blown them up. I would have made a poster of it. Like our wedding day picture. Like I don't know. Yeah. Like I would have been like I think in my response sometimes I can be a little passive aggressive versus having hard conversations.

And that is where I would have been a little passive aggressive. Oh, more passive aggressive. Yeah. Print out the pictures. Put them up everywhere. My husband. My husband. Not Jeff.

My husband. Not that guy. Like I don't know. I mean, that response would have probably worked for her, though, because then she wouldn't have seemed crazy to all these people. Not that she was crazy. That's just, like, unfortunately, how people spin things sometimes. I wonder what the workplace, like, rumor mill said after. Yeah, I know.

Because now he gets full kind of control over the narrative. The way it goes. But also, what if he wanted to date? What if a new coworker gets hired and what if you wanted to date? Yeah. Like, you're screwed now. You're married. Why?

Why would you do that? For 10 years, too. Like, it's not even, like, a secret that she's married or it's, like, a new thing that she's in a relationship with someone else. A decade. A decade-long marriage. I am very curious about office rumors in general now. Like, if there are any other stories that people have about, like, a really weird rumor about

them that was spread in the office or, like, one that's been going around, or if, like, one of their co-workers confronted a different coworker about something. Yeah. I would love to hear that. I've got a theme coming up, I think. Like, you guys still want a work theme, right? I know someone said work. Someone messaged me and they're like, can you please do that one? So, yeah, work stories, but not safe for work. And then someone is like, can you do like a school teacher? Oh, I like that too because I do like like classroom. Classroom. College. Like, yeah. So it would be even also less crazy if it was like two college students and, like, like, classroom drama. College. Like, yeah. So it would be even also less crazy if it was like to college students and, like, the guy was spreading rumors in his lecture, like, oh, yeah, I'm dating her. But that would still be crazy. But, like, doing it in a professional, like, work environment about someone in your department. No. It's so weird. The audacity. And it works for him. So, no wonder. Insane. I do have one more

work story that is going to go on the first bonus episode for January. Wow. Also it has to do with a picture. Am I wrong for not removing a photo from my desk after my coworker made it weird? Oh, my God. You can't leave us hanging like that. The workplace tea is starting to pipe. And everyone's back at work after the holidays too. I know. It's a good timing. I know. So if you have any personal work drama, you want our takes on. Yeah. Go over to the two hot takes subreddit, post it there. And I will make sure we get a good work theme together for February. It'll be good. That'll be good. But moving on to Ogtha. Oh, my God. Okay. I'm so confused that like this hasn't even come up for you before.

No. And I'm sure it has on like other Reddit pods. I mean the original post is from 2014. Wow. So it's a little vintage. Let's get in the headspace of 2014. Remember the story you were on? It was the first episode. I think you ever came on. Really bonded us as friends about the bug guy. Yes. That is immediately where I went with it. So we do appear to have another bug guy This is perfect I know I'm gobsmacked at the perfection of this whole Situation I know if you guys don't know like this was one of my favorite stories

This was what like four years ago At least now four years ago at least I went on to what takes for the first time we were at your dad's condo at the time on a On a couch I think And there was this story about a guy who was method acting a beetle part in a play. And we really tried to like find the play. I think someone eventually found the play and sent it. Yeah, the play was metamorphosis.

Right. And it was real. Just wait, you guys. We are coming a little bit full circle, but time traveling. So this is going to be good. Wow. Every four or five years. We need a bug.

We need a bug every four years. Yeah, it's got to happen. So the post is titled, Today I Fucked Up by admitting to my girlfriend that I pretend she is a giant cockroach when we have sex. Wait, this is a fetish. This is like, sorry, okay. Ever since I was a teenager, I have had very intense fantasies about having sex with a giant roach. This is not that, this is not that unusual, by the way. This is not that unusual. I hate to break it. No, literally on my old podcast with Matt, we had a story about a guy who was role-playing, like, you pretend to be an aunt, or no, you pretend to be a big human that's about to smash me, and I'm a little ant, and your really big foot is about to step on me. And I'm like, ah, I'm so small, like, don't step on me. Like, this is a thing. I've heard it before. It started in ninth or tenth grade when we read The Metamorphosis by Franz Kafka. No. As I started to think more and more about the roach creature that the character had become, I started to start.

to imagine what it would be like if a woman turned into the roach instead. I found this idea very arousing. I would not be repulsed or frightened of her, as the characters in the story are. I would take care of her. Then my thoughts started to get sexual with the character. Right. Eventually, I sort of dropped the bit about her having been a human woman first, and I kind of imagined this fictionalized roach species. They are giant roaches, the size of a person, and have complete intelligence. I kind of, over time, conjured up an imaginary friend of sorts. She was one of these roaches, and her name was Ogtha.

I would fantasize about her often. Whenever I masturbated, I'd be imagining elaborate scenarios of me and Ogtha making love. It's not even a sexy name. When I started to have actual sex, I found I could not perform. if I wasn't thinking of Ogtha. So basically now, every time I have sex with a woman, I'm pretending that she is actually Ogtha. Not just think about Ogtha.

I concentrate intently to visualize that I actually am doing Ogtha. Doing Oakla. I don't want to think about the girl at all. There is only Ogtha. Wait, like romantic. Of course, this sex can never be as exciting as my fully imaginary sessions with Ogtha. There are things that her multiple appendages and antennae allow for that a human woman could never match.

So anyways, I've been in a relationship with my girlfriend for about a year. Three or four times I've tried to have sex with her and not pretend she is Ogtha, but I just can't do it. And every other time he's imagined Ogtha. Okay, awesome. So essentially, every time we have sex, I'm imagining she is Ogtha. I finally confided this to her the other day, and I was blown away by her reaction. I thought she might take it a bit badly at first, but that she'd get used to it. No, I have never seen such a look of disgust before.

Outraged is not an understatement. She is not even returning my texts now. Shocking. I'm afraid that she's actually going to break up with me, and also that is going to tell people about Ogtha. I don't know how I will face anyone. This is going to sound silly, but I also feel guilty about feeling shame. As if Ogtha will be saddened by this. Even though I know she is imaginary. I just don't know what to do at this point. can I tell you like once again I'm warring with myself about this story on one hand I think it's the romance of a century like I think that I think that like Opie and Octha should have a movie like there should like he he cannot this is the most faithful a man has ever been to anybody in the history of the world can't imagine being with anybody other than Ogtha like Octha is all you dream about all you think about this is like this is like the greatest love there's ever been at the same time if I were the girlfriend in this situation. Can you imagine hearing that?

The fact that he's surprised like a little bit sure. He's like yeah I felt like at first of course she'd be like a little upset but I imagine she'd get over it and then he's more worried about Oghtha's feelings than her feelings. This is like this is almost like the AI girlfriend.

friend trend of everything, like dating, chat, GPT, or whatever is going on where it's like, there's this idealized woman who doesn't talk back to you and only like ever does what you want and says what you want her to say, except in this version, it's, is it a cockroach? It's a cockroach. And I can't believe, I can't believe that this goes back. He should date the actor who's method acting as the roach for metamorphosis. They could both find happiness with one another. See, I do think there's someone out there for him.

Right. I do think he needs to be a little bit more up front with his fetishes versus, like, I would be so distraught and grossed out if my partner told me every time we have sex, I envision you're a roach. Yeah. I mean, a roach is especially bad, but if they said that about anything. And your antenna is. I envision you as anything else. No. Every time I have sex with you, I envision you in any other way.

I would be like... That's hurtful. Yeah. It's like really weird and hurtful and... Like, oh, you don't actually want me. And he also said that... You just want a hole to plug and pretend as a roach. Yeah.

And he said it's never as good with her as it is when he can imagine Oghtha by himself. It's just... You only have two hands. though, that's the thing. Like, how are you imagining all of these? Well, you've got a lot of fingers. Appendages and antenna. Antennae? Maybe he brings in props. Maybe there's prop play. I think he has to, if I'm getting really serious, I do think he needs to get help. This is like a detrimental. He's Pavlovd a bit too hard. And I think, I don't know if we talked about this before with fetishes of like, I think it can become a problem and you need to talk about it with your partners very early. if there's no other way for you to have sex. Like it's one thing to be like lightly interested in something and like, oh yeah, I like this

or I like that. But if you cannot have sex unless you imagine them as this Roach Ogtha, you've got to go to Reddit, you've got to go to forums, you've got to find someone out there who's also got that same fetish. Or you need to get help because there's no other way forward. I think a qualified therapist is a non-negotiable. But yeah, I would say like if you're going to start dating again, maybe go to bug groups and go to like the zoo and observe the bugs and maybe you'll find your person there.

Someone else observing the bugs. That's into the bugs. It wants to be a bug. And I don't know, a bug's life could be for someone, but it ain't for that girl. I was going to say a bug's life has gone triple platinum in his house. Ants the movie triple platinum in his house. Well, I'll tell you what, Michaela. Okay.

We get an update. Of course, yeah. Because it wasn't enough. That perfect story wasn't enough. There's got to be more. An update comes six years later. 2020. This was around the time that we read the play.

So first post was October 3rd, 2014. Second post is May 16th, 2020. Oh, my God. Like five and a half years later. Oh, five years ago, I submitted the story of me telling my then-girlfriend that when we made love, I was envisioning her as a giant roach. You might think of a scene in Blade Runner 2049. which my original Today I Fucked Up predates, by the way, where the main character makes love to a prostitute,

but his hologramed girlfriend kind of holograms over the body of the actual person. Oh, yeah, great scene. So he can pretend he's making love to his hologram. That is what it was like with me in Ogtha, but instead of a hologram, it was just my imagination. In the five years that have passed since this topic was posted, I decided to stop fooling myself, and I just committed to the love of Ogtha.

I know she is not real per se, but in my head she is an actual personality. And I am in love with that personality. I don't care if she is a roach or if she is imaginary. The love is real. Call me deluded, but it's harmless. It makes me happy. I have not had a real girlfriend again since that incident five years ago. But occasionally, I have had one-night stands via online app,

with the understanding of it being one night in advance. And on these terms, I always envision the woman is Ogtha, my sensual roach queen. Now, I mean no offense to the women, of course, and even a gentleman once or twice. The many appendages of Ogtha make translation to human gender almost irrelevant. I just envision they are Ogtha. And no, ha, ha, I've never confided to them about it. I learned my lesson. The thing about it, though, is that I became so in love with my Ogtha that I married her.

I even did a little ceremony in my living room. I recited my own vows, and she recited hers. I even went on a honeymoon, which technically you could say was a solo vacation to New Orleans for work. But in my mind, Ogtha was with me the entire time. In my mind, I think of her as my wife. Tears in my eyes. Beautiful. Now here is where I fucked up.

I got so used to thinking of her as my wife in my head that a few months ago at work, I nonchalantly said my wife in some innocuous sentence. I think it was something like, oh yeah, me and my wife love that show in regards to chopped. So now everyone was asking me about my wife because they'd never heard I was married or even dating anyone.

So then he just said it was his co-worker. And then the... It's all connected. Everything is connected. Everyone kept pestering me, wanting to know about her, wanting to see pictures. I became full of panic. I did the only thing I swore I would never do again. I talked to other people about Ogtha in real life.

My guy. My guy, my guy, my guy, my guy. No, even in this scenario, you lie. In this situation, you lie. Dude, I can't even read this. I'm so uncomfortable. What happens next? Because right now I'm on board with him.

I'm like, okay. We were at a team lunch, and I just let it all spill out. I told them about how I became enamored as a teenager with the France Kafka story, how my fantasy evolved into an actual imaginary entity with a personality, and how I slowly began to grow in love with her. What started as a mere sexual attraction to giant roaches

blossomed into a whirlwind romance, and that she became the love of my life, even though her existence was in my own mind. At first, they thought I was doing a creepy joke, but I convinced them I was telling the truth. Well, they were afraid and disgusted. I have been a pariah at work ever since. Everybody steers clear of me. We used to have a good social life. Now people only speak to me for work-related reasons. Even working virtually now. nobody sends me a slack message unless it is about work. I even heard a rumor that people went to HR, but they were, of course, told nothing could be done. I've lost my good work friends because of this, and it is indeed jeopardizing my career because my bosses think I am insane.

I've ruined my friendships and future career prospects due to my honesty. I am thinking of starting to look for a new job, although it is difficult in the current environment. COVID. Oh yeah. I can start fresh elsewhere though. No matter what, I will be staying with my wife, Ogtha. For me, it is Ogtha forever. I mean, that's his girl and he's going to stand beside her.

If you must know, I do hope that even if I am an old man, that one day the technology is invented to extract the Ogtha personality from my mind and implant it into a real external body, either of a genetically engineered or a mechanical

nature, and me and Ogtha can experience genuine physical connection. But if she must remain within me, that is fine. Her love keeps me warm on the coldest of nights. Thank you. Like, fuck. Like it's beautiful. Like, lowly, it's like it's beautiful.

Like, I mean, this is. I'm uncomfortable. I am deep. I understand where is coworkers we're at. Hearing this visually described. Yeah. I'm impressed with his imagination. Right.

And his ability to... The sustainability of it all. What I will say is like, if you're... I feel he did the right thing. I think maybe the better thing would have been therapy, but this is the second best thing, right? Because he can't keep lying to a girl he is dating and imagining Ogtha.

No, his only option was to be single. If you can't move beyond OGtha... Well, he's not single. He's married, so... Shot that down. No. And I want to just say that that I... I have to believe, and I'm so sorry, but someone listening to this podcast has had a one-night stand and been imagined as Oktha.

Just like numbers-wise, like someone listening right now, I do believe either you or someone you know has had a one-night stand with the guy who's picturing you as his Beatle wife. Dude, like, I just don't understand. Like, I would just, like, be so lonely. And I get he's not lonely. He has Oktha. He's married. But like this guy feels like he's like taking some Bradley Cooper type magical brain pill that lets you open the other 90% of your brain. And like he is going into another realm with his imagination and how vibrant Ogtha is.

Or he's using less of his brain. It's hard to know for sure. I bet he is having a feeling. Or it's just genuine mental illness. Oh, what was I saying? I bet he's having a field day with generative AI right now. He like he is having a robot pretend to be Oakva. 100%.

I could see him coming back. We're actually due for an update. It's five years. It's at that point. We're due for an update. Technology has come a long way. He probably doesn't have a physical ok, though. But after 10 years, with the VR goggles and what you can now generate.

True. Like there is VR porn. Right. And it is like, have you ever been in it? VR porn? Yeah. Have I been in? Have you been in VR porn?

No, I haven't been I don't even watch regular porn I've never been in VR porn It's very real I have a VR headset if you want to just Just like to just look No I have to do anything But you can just look

I didn't do anything I have my own feelings about that I just wanted to look But it's real people And they record it within a VR camera And so it's like you look down That's between them I don't need to be there Okay

For research purposes, I need someone else on this podcast to, like, just stick their head in it for one second. I also have my own imagination, and that works for me. I don't need to be in the room. I don't need to be in the room with them. I'm like, what am I doing here? Like, they're having their fun. No, it's just you are them. You are them. Like, you are in the goggles. You're them. Yeah, yeah. But I'm not, though, and I know that. So it's like it's little tough. But okay, so he could literally create. Right. Beetle porn. I think so. I think so because I think we're at least at the point now. But I also then wonder like, okay, and here imagine this scenario. He creates a VR Ogha, but she starts to like have some of her own thoughts and he falls out of love with her.

I think that would be the ideal situation. I almost think that that is what happened. I think there's so much of this is just the fact that he gets to project. I mean, there's the sexual component, but then there's also this. emotional component of like, I get to create whoever I want this to be, whatever I want her personality to be. And if there were even a little bit of her thinking for herself, it'd be over. It'd be over. I hope. Because it wouldn't fit his delusion. It wouldn't, it wouldn't fit his, like, fantasy delusion. I would love a recent update from O.P. We are now at that five-year mark,

it's kind of time. We do have one more post from O.P. Okay. That came after the coworker thing. Around that same time or later. Yep. Third post titled, Today I fucked up by telling my parents that I am married to an imaginary giant roach. I mean, it's about time you tell the parents, right.

I love Ogtha and she loves me. Some time ago I married her. Now, from a strictly legal sense, no, I am not married per se, but me and Ogtha, we consider our relationship to be marriage. I'm devoted to her and her to me. I revealed this to my coworkers

and it did not go well, but I thought my parents, had a right to know. Last evening, I revealed to them everything about Ogtha and told them we were married. I even allowed Ogtha to speak through me to them so that she could finally meet my parents after only seen them from afar. I knew my parents would find it unusual at first, but I thought they would come to understand and be happy for me. He keeps thinking that. He keeps thinking that it'll go that way for him. However, I fear they think me deranged. My mother actually cried, and not tears of happiness as I expected.

They even encouraged me to seek counseling. I explained to them what I am experiencing is real and encouraged them to read through the Tulpa Reddit. It has created a very bad situation for me and now I fear my relationship with my parents is quite ruined. They keep insisting I see counseling and are threatening that if I don't, they will no longer assist me with my student loans

and will not welcome me at Thanksgiving. I feel they are overreacting. But at the same time, I wish I had just kept my marriage a secret. I do consider it now to be a fuck-up to have been truthful with my parents. They are in some ways traditionalists and are simply not ready to understand how entities can exist without physical form and share a mind. It breaks my heart, but I wish I had been deceitful with my family. For the record, I will never divorce Ogtha, and with our love I know I can survive anything, but I wish I had never been true. with my parents.

I mean, he sounds delusional, but you have to put yourself in the mind of someone who's been with Ogtha for many years now. Like, ultimately, at least 10 years. At a certain point, you have to convince yourself if not that crazy, right? Like, you have to, in your mind, be like, no, this is semi-normal. Like, other people surely, if they, if they love me, they'd understand. I genuinely think O.P. is dealing with some mental health issues. I would be so curious because with that, I was like, well, it seems like unless he tells people,

it's not really affecting his life. Like, he went to school, got a degree, seems to have a job, seems to, like, not have any other addictions. That didn't last long. Right? So then it's like... Why did you start telling everyone? So then it's like, I wish I could hear from a third party because someone else might be

like, no, he's a recluse and like he doesn't have a social life because of it. And X-W, you know, it's hard when you're hearing it from O-P's perspective. You just envision O-P, like, talking to themselves, but it's Ogtha. And it's just like... Yeah, and Oghah speaking through him to his parents. It's evolving as time goes on, which is kind of scary, like, how much it's escalated to, like, oh, you had a normal life and you got a girlfriend. And then you just kind of envisioned having sex with Oghtha as you were having sex with your girlfriend. But now it's like, no, like, you are one entity.

and she talks through you. And that's where I'm like, oh, no, no, no, this is, this is beyond any imagination. I almost feel like this could happen to anybody. In like a way that anyone could probably like fall into a cult. Like I could see the progression of like fixating on something. And then it's slowly like taking over more and more of your life. Maybe not Oak that specifically happened to anybody. But like a delusion.

It's like you have to catch it early enough to cut it off before it's all consuming. Like if he'd gone to therapy about the Beatle thing when he was in high school, yes. He probably could have cut this off and had like a normal relationship. I agree. But it's too late now. He'll never forget Ogha. He will never divorce Ogtha.

We need to see this play. We need to see metamorphosis. I know. I like need to like. Like the power of it is almost terrifying. I need to understand. understand how it's captivating people so much. Like multiple people have been captivated by this, this roach, this beetle, whatever it is. Wow. That was a detour I did not expect to take today.

So glad we did. Are we though? Yeah. I don't know if I am, to be honest. I'm going to have to think about that. I'm like ultimately not that bothered by it. I think if I were to get, if I were to get realistic about it, I'd be like, okay, there's something, something really off there. I need to, like, hear more stories about other weird fetishes, like that Antoine that you shared, like, that intrigues me. Joe Sanagato, like, I think when he came on his initial episode way back when, like, he told me that he, like, talked to some lady that made, like, shit sushi. Like, I need to, like...

No, I can't get behind that. I can't get behind that. I need to, like, hear other weirder stories. that make this feel better. The ant thing wasn't even us reading a random story. It was a conversation Matt had with somebody asking him to roleplay as the ant. Or they were the aunt. So it's slightly different because they were the aunt in that scenario.

That's insane. I've seen it a few times. I've even had people in my DMs be like, sometimes I imagine that I'm really, really tiny and I'm on the palm of your hand. And then you slap me against a wall. I've gotten that more than once. Not exactly that, but like a tiny, a tiny fetish. Please, if you've experienced something goofy along these lines, please put it in the comments.

You can go on YouTube, make an anonymous account and just just, just step on me up. Just put it right there. Like, I don't know. You like to be tied up with dirty socks. I don't really care. I just like, I need, that's probably not that bad. I need something that's like on Ogtha level. that makes this feel better.

And I'm just genuinely curious what's out there now. Yeah. I know there's like the leather pony fetish and people gallop around and a ball gag with a leather horsehead on. I think what sets Ogtha apart is how, like, unique and one of one of a situation it is. Yeah. Because she is, you know, her own thing. Now, I do wonder, maybe someone out there read that story and now they also love Ogtha. I don't know.

She's very desirable. She knows how to hold down a man. We're done. We're done. Okay, y'all. Love you. We're headed over to Patreon. I got Jenna sitting behind the camera here.

We're ready to go. Thank you for joining us on another crazy episode of Two Hot Takes. I mean, man, it was banger after banger today. Let me know what you want to see. We've got some really good guests coming up soon. I'm headed to New York. I just ran into Joe at that pre-Golden Globes party said hi, said come on the pod. So fingers crossed, y'all.

But let me know who else you want to see if they're New York based and I'll see what I can do. But on that note, until next time, bye. Bye.