Two Hot Takes - 26: Moms and MILs.. We Just Scratched the Surface

Episode Date: July 29, 2021

TW: child loss (last story w/warning prior)  Two Hot Takes host, Morgan, is joined by guest co-host Alejandra! They're tackling toxic MILs and moms. This one has been highly requested.. and we feel like we just began to touch on this complex and dynamic relationship...  First up are listener write-ins! So so many of you had insane stories to share and we tried to rapid fire a few. Bonus stories are over on our Patreon!  And then for the Reddit stories (starts at minute 18)... A woman caught her MIL trying to breastfeed her baby, a husband wants his mom to be in the delivery room, a mother suggest to her DIL that she leaves her son, a husband tells his wife his MIL can't move in with them, and last a mom suffers a loss so great due to her MIL's neglect... As always your support is very appreciated: https://www.patreon.com/TwoHotTakes Full length Video episodes available on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/TwoHotTakes Direct Inquiries: [e-mail]

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No one helps more homeowners than Any Hour Services. Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Two Hot Takes. I'm your host, Morgan. And I'm Alejandra. And we're coming back at you with another episode, this one on mother-in-laws and toxic moms. Yup. You're already just quaking in your boots.

Yes, that's right, you took the words right out of my mouth. This episode has been long overdue. We've been out-rallying for this episode to come to fruition. I have seen a lot of comments asking for it. Mother-in-laws. Yeah. Bring on the mother-in-laws and the toxic moms. Long overdue.

I'm sure everyone, whether you have one or not, you've experienced a toxic mother-in-law or mom. I don't have a mother-in-law, so I don't know. Yet. Yeah. But yours, you've got a great relationship with your future mother-in-law at this point in time, if you were to marry your partner. Yeah.

But I think that's so different from a mother-in-law. I think the dynamic definitely changes once you get married. And I think once you get engaged, if there's any underlying tension, I think once you get engaged, it cements the relationship. And if you do have a potentially toxic mother-in-law, I think that's when the clause really starts to come out. Yeah. Because then all of a sudden it's like, wait, she's here to stay.

She's in the picture. And for guys as well, I think it goes both ways. My mom was a complete hard ass on Justin when we first started dating. Really? Oh my god. My mom was, if you're listening, I'm sorry, a bitch to Justin. It was so, it was not good at first. Wow, I'd never heard about this.

Yeah, after my pinning ceremony from OT school, we were driving home from the restaurant and we all got in a screaming match. Wasn't that about politics? We started with politics, and then she started asking Justin about religion. And he's not very religious, so it was kind of like, you're not good enough for my daughter. You need to be saved too. I already need to save Morgan because, you know, whatever. But yeah, it was a rough start.

And me and my mom have, we have a great relationship now, but growing up, it was not always the case. And I think my mom experienced a lot of generational abuse and trauma. And that kind of carried into her parenting. So the dynamic is very healthy and good now, but it was not always the case. Well, I think a lot of women, I guess maybe men too, but like women and their teens have like very tumultuous relationships with their moms. There's so many crazy dynamics that moms and mother-in-laws bring and we're about to get

into it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. You've been prepping me like for a while now on this one, so I'm like, I don't know what to expect. I know. I didn't want a dark episode either. You wanted something a little more lighthearted.

Yes. I'm like so excited to get out of the doghouse. Literally, I took a hiatus. People have been like, did she die? No, she's taking a social recovery. Well, let's do it. Okay, let's do it. On that note, let's dive in.

Let's do it. So this was a long awaited episode. I've had so many people comment, message, DM, mother-in-laws, bring them on. So I posed it to the people. I said, you guys, this is your time to fucking shine. Send me your mother-in-law or crazy mom stories. And the people did not disappoint. They did not relent.

They did not disappoint. We even had one of our very own friends. So we'll start with that. We have our friend, Whitney, who wrote in. She goes, my ex's mom said, let's grab some food together at a baseball game once. And while we were waiting in line, she looked dead into my soul and said, I see right through you and you have a lot of baggage. Then was psycho mean to me the rest of the time we dated.

Oh, God, that sucks. Well, they really shipped in a workout and ex for a reason. Yes, there you go. But that's like what you see in movies. Yeah. Where people say, I see right through you and they barely know you and you're like, okay. Excuse me. Right.

And when he's a great person, Whitney is just like, not somebody with ulterior motives. No. And doesn't everyone have baggage? Yeah. Like everyone has experienced some trauma in one way or another. Yeah. And why? What makes you better?

Right. Why are you holding that against somebody? I see right through you. It's very ominous. Omnimous. I don't know what that word is. Whatever that word is. It is a word, but I'm butchering it.

I don't know, I couldn't tell you. This next listener writes in, my mother-in-law invited my fiance's ex to our wedding shower, wedding and more. What? Is it a what? So I ask her, I go, okay, going to need more on this. How the heck did she get away with inviting the ex to your wedding? She goes, she sabotaged every part of our wedding she could get her hands on.

Okay. So I got engaged when I was 24 to my boyfriend at the time who was 22. We were on the same page about so many important things like our life goals, faith, etc. And we're so excited to spend our lives together. The only time we started fighting was when his ex-girlfriend came into the picture. A few months before our wedding, she posted a picture to Facebook of them at prom and wrote a caption about how he's her best friend and how much she loves him and tagged him in it.

Then I found out she was still talking to his family all the time and saw them regularly. To be fair, he's from a small town in Michigan and they went to the same church and we were living in Chicago at the time. I told him it made me a little uncomfortable and when he told me she had been invited to our wedding, I got really frustrated. He talked to his mom about it and his mom swore she understood and that she was sorry. The next day she invited the ex to our wedding shower. When I talked to his mom, she just said, oh, I didn't mean anything by it.

Keep in mind 12 hours earlier, my fiance had just told her how hurt I was. Fast forward to the wedding a couple of months later, we had gotten a beautiful crystal cake stand from a family friend and his mom said that she had a lot of experience making wedding cakes. So she should make ours. I gave her the measurements and she sent pictures of the round cake she would make that fit on the stand. She showed up the day before the wedding with the exact opposite, a long rectangle cake

that looked like a five year old made it and just shrugged her shoulders. We had the wedding in my mom's backyard in a wooded area and had to do the set up ourselves. His family said they would come and help, but instead they showed up right as I was getting my dress on, not even dressed for the wedding. They then proceeded to go into my mom's room while I was in the bathroom and shut me out of it. This was the room I was getting ready in. I knocked on the door to see if I don't know, I could finish getting ready in the few minutes

before my wedding when they finally came out after they got themselves ready. They just looked at me in my wedding dress and walked past me without saying a word. At the end of the night, his sister was supposed to give us a ride to our hotel and about ten minutes into the reception, she told us, it's time to go. Then when we didn't leave, she left us. Luckily we found another sober ride to our hotel. I could go on and on about what else happened with my in-laws, but that's the story of our wedding.

Oh my gosh, I'm screaming inside. The fucking, not even microaggressions, the aggressions. Wow, to walk past somebody in their wedding dress? While they've been knocking on the door, trying to get into the room that you're in to get ready. And not even say, you look beautiful, like, do you need help? Assholes. I honestly, this sounds so dramatic, but I would, in that moment, be like, am I marrying

into the wrong family? Yeah. It's hard not to think that way. Yeah. It's hard because you don't want to hold it against your fiance, but honestly, there's been instances in the past where family things happen and I'm like, do I want to marry into this family? Yeah.

That's insane to me. So I don't even know where to start, all of it. I think, and I wanted to say, like, oh, I think everyone has at least one time when they've experienced that. But no, like, I think there are people that like truly really, really, really get lucky in the relationship department. But like, I've been there. Like, there's just some family drama where you're like, okay, like, wow.

Well, what did she do to, I know maybe she didn't do anything at all, but it's sounding like they really have a vendetta against her and they don't like her. Maybe she's just not the ex. Yeah, that's fucked up. She pulled their golden boy away to the big city. What? People from small towns get goofy like that. They want their kid to marry the high school sweetheart so they don't move away.

Good luck, sweetheart. That's what you want for life. Great. But if it's not, support it. Like, this is your kid. Yeah. Like you should raise your kid to be happy and healthy and their own independent person. Exactly.

And treating, oh, treating someone like that. What does that get you? If you don't, you're at the wedding day. It's happening. It's happening. Like go through with it. Put a smile on your face. Be positive.

Be friendly. Be loving. Whether you like it or not, this wedding is happening. We're already here. You're here. You're in the 11th hour. Like why are you going to throw tantrum now? Like just make it a pleasant day for everybody if the relationship doesn't work out in the future.

Okay, but to treat somebody like that, does that really make you feel better about somebody who's about to marry into your family? No. And you're going to get your grandchildren privileges revoked if they ever have any. Yeah, that's it. Like you're creating such a toxic environment for your son in that case. Yeah. And you're not going to want to come visit back.

You're not going to want to go back to Michigan to visit the family. No. That's how you get treated? Yeah. How low? No, when you like manipulate your kids or emotionally abuse them or just try to control their lives in ways like this or your mean to their partner or you cause them stress when they visit.

They don't want to keep coming back. You are making that relationship more difficult for yourselves. Yeah. By acting that way. You say kiss goodbye to your son at that point because it's going to stay in Chicago. Chicago is it? Mm-hmm. He's going to stay there with his lovely new wife.

So I've got two emailed listener right in. Oh my gosh. I know. People. The listener showed up. Yeah. I didn't realize. He used so many.

So many. Like I didn't realize this was such a hot topic. I knew it was going to be a popular topic, but I didn't realize like so many listeners would have so much personal experience. And be willing to share it because these are things that are not always easy to talk about, not at all. So your favorite topic, weddings. This listener goes, my mother-in-law has been married twice and has the dresses from both.

She offered me either dress to which I declined with thank you, but I already got mine with my mom. But thank you so much for the offer. Her response, loud sigh. Thank goodness. There probably isn't enough lace to let them out for you anyway. What does that mean? She's too big for the dresses. Essentially like body shaming her.

Oh. That's straight up being mean for no reason. Why? You could have just not like got it. Move on. Yeah. My response, well, I'm just not as athletic as you are. I then took my husband left and cried in the car privately.

LOL. But wait, it gets worse. Oh no. So my at the time fiance, and I waited two years for his sister to pick a wedding date from her engagement. She didn't and we picked ours 15 months out. That was very, very generous. Yeah, what? As soon as we announced our date, she decided she has to get married first and it will be a destination wedding in three months.

Now I was happy for my soon to be sister-in-law and tried again to bond with my mother-in-law by offering to take her dress shopping and even paying for the dress that is intended for our wedding. She says, oh, I already have my dresses. I'll hem up my wedding dresses and dye them in the bathtub. I'll wear my first wedding dress to yours and my second to sister-in-law's. That dress symbolizes my happier marriage anyways. It will be perfect. So the happier marriage goes to the sister?

Yeah. People like this just absolutely make me irate. Like, you, why? I don't get it. I don't get it. Gets worse. Just stop, okay. Oh, P goes, no, you will be escorted out of mine if you show up in your divorced wedding dress.

She then tells me I'm a diva and that my wedding to her son really isn't important anyways. Okay, bummer, then you can see yourself out. We don't see her much and we are almost one year married now. Side note, my husband did support me and said something to mother-in-law as he was hurt by two. She said she just wants the dresses to have a second use where he then suggested she get them made into baptismal or burial dresses for infants. There are several charities that do this, which is a great idea. Yeah, that's genius. That person, this mother-in-law is so unhappy with herself.

It's pretty loud and clear that she's so upset that her weddings failed or I should say her marriage has failed. It doesn't, it sounds like maybe the first marriage she was widowed? No, I think divorce, but I think she's still with the second husband. But like, oh, so wait, the second husband is the happier dress. That's why she was like, I wear happier marriage. Okay, got it. She doesn't specify if she's divorced or anything, but like, okay, well still. It sounds like you're resentful that something didn't pan out for you the way you wanted it to.

And now you feel so, I don't know, obliged to take down your future daughter-in-law for no good reason other than Pierce Byte. Because, okay, let's just say she's not your cup of tea, not everybody vibes. Like, you could have a pretty decent mother-in-law, but she's just not your cup of tea. Your personalities are different. Yeah, or you could be a, you could think of yourself as a pretty good daughter-in-law, but you just, your mother-in-law and you don't connect very well, that's fine. But to go off and make those like, terrible comments, like, well, you wouldn't fit in anyway, and your wedding's not that important to me.

And thank God, because you're too big for these dresses. Those are just hateful comments for no reason. Yeah, that's a toxic mom. That's, yeah, that's a toxic and it's a very unhappy, unpleasant person. Yeah. No, she's definitely like projecting her own fucking unhappiness. But one last listener write-in, which is perfect for our first Reddit story. Okay.

It leads, leads in very well. Perfect. We love a little transition. My husband and I are expecting our first child in a few weeks. We recently went to a wedding for a family friend where my mother-in-law kept introducing us to people. Each time she'd say the following, this is my son and this is my daughter-in-law. And this pointing at my belly is my baby. This happened three separate times. I have a good relationship with my mother-in-law,

but it bothered me that she seems to think our baby is hers. She did her work 28 years ago when she had my husband. She hasn't contributed at all by creating this child. Based on how she's acting, I'm honestly afraid of the shell shock she will have when she realizes her role as a grandmother is a lot different than her role as a mother was. Yeah, this is a write-in. I think that's worth having a conversation. Why hasn't the husband slash son pulled his mom aside and been like,

hey, it's a little uncomfy. I need you to tell me that you know this is our baby. You might be joking, maybe you're just really excited, but I need you to acknowledge that this is actually not your baby. Like, why hasn't that conversation happened? I don't know. I think that's definitely something that needs to happen. There is another Reddit story that I've seen that kind of isn't the one I'm going to read,

but is very eerily similar. And it's about this woman who, her dad remarried to her stepmom. Stepmom couldn't have children, and so when the daughter had her baby, the stepmom literally tried to kidnap it. Oh, that's like a Lifetime Network movie. It was the creepiest story, and it was just, it was very eerie. And I think I haven't saved for the scary stories one, but it was like, oh, there were warning signs where she'd be like, my baby,

oh, my baby, and it's kind of this vibe. Okay, but like, if you were saying, oh, and this is my grandbaby, it's a little different versus like, my baby. And I don't know if like, obviously maybe pregnancy hormones, she's overanalyzing things. And me, I'm like, okay, am I overanalyzing this? Because language is so, so important to me. And we've had this discussion a lot with like life situations we have where

people use like certain language. And it's like, one word, like leaving out a word or adding a word changes the conversation so much. Yeah, absolutely. And so it's like, it just makes me uncomfortable. Yeah, it's uncomfortable. I think it's worth telling the mother-in-law that you feel uncomfortable. Definitely.

And maybe it'll be, I don't know, we don't know enough, but maybe the mother-in-law will be like, of course, of course I know this is your baby. Duh. I just call it my baby because I'm so excited. Like, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that was uncomfortable. Or it could be a crazy situation where she's like possessive. Yeah.

But you just don't know. It is, it is very strange and it's very uncomfy. And I don't like it. Speaking of uncomfy. Hi, Jan from Toyota speaking. Jan, I heard it's a good time to buy a Toyota. Sure is. From now until April 4th, you can shop all your favorites,

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Toyota, let's go places. See your participating Toyota dealer for details. Dealer inventory may vary. Am I the asshole for not wanting my mother-in-law to take care of my baby after she tried to breastfeed him? Oh my gosh. Is that, okay, before I get yelled at, is that like a thing?

You don't do that, right? You can't just breastfeed other people's babies. No. But what if you're both lactating? Different. You can't, right? Because it's different. You can.

Yeah, like that's like, if you look at olden times, they had wet nurses. So royalty wouldn't feed their own children. That's actually has like kind of like racial implications because a lot of like- Women of color. Yeah. More of so black women at the time, I think.

Actually, maybe it was. I think it depends on the culture. I think in colonial, colonial America, enslaved individuals would oftentimes be used as wet nurses. But I think in like English courts, I think it was like, it was other individuals. Yeah, I don't know. But yeah, it was typically lower income enslaved individuals.

Like it's just, it's a crazy concept. So that's not a dumb question. You can do that. Well, even like, and I don't even today in modern times, like I have a friend that just had a little one and she wasn't really able to produce enough milk. So she used donated milk. But your mother-in-law.

But your mother-in-law, who clearly very much so is probably not lactating. No. Oh, that is so uncomfortable. What did she do? So OP writes, My husband and I both work full time and we have a two month old. My mother-in-law comes to our house every weekday

and watches him for free while we work. We're on week three of this arrangement since I went back to work after maternity leave. It's very kind of her to do this for us. And I appreciate it immensely. My baby is breastfed. I put milk for her to give to him during the day and he gets milk right from the source on evenings and weekends.

He loves nursing and I do too. It's been a wonderful way for us to bond and a beautiful experience overall. Yesterday, while I was at work, I opened the baby monitor app on my phone to check and see if my mother-in-law was able to get him to take an app in his crib. She had been texting me saying he was crying really hard.

So she was thinking about just holding him for an app. So I wanted to check and see if he was okay and if she ended up just holding him. When I looked at the camera, mother-in-law was holding him and she had her shirt up and he was latched onto her breast. I was shocked and horrified. I called her right away and she didn't answer.

So I had to sit there and watch her attempt to breastfeed my baby. He was latched on but obviously not getting any milk as my mother-in-law is not lactating. I called my husband at work who eventually got a hold of her. Apparently the baby was crying so hard and that was the only thing she could think of to calm him down enough to sleep. Don't they have pacifiers for that?

Yeah. Or like another sucking mechanism? Like those little, I've seen those little passies that look just like nipples. Yeah, they have those and also like if he's crying super hard, I get some babies just cannot be calmed. Who knows what's going on? Maybe he's colicky. Who fucking knows?

But the fact that she wouldn't just keep trying for a bottle, rock him, maybe put him in the car seat, take him for a little drive, put him in a buggy, go for a walk. Your thought when he's crying and you can't console him is to fucking put him on your breast. I mean, I don't see it as like insane in thought but it's one of those things that you like, it's a thought and you just leave it at that.

You're like, that's an idea but that's crazy and you don't do it. Yeah. Or if you're like, if it's like fucking meet the Fockers where the guy had like a fake breast suit and put the bottle in the suit. Sure. That's a different story. But to pull up your shirt and have your grandchild suck on your boob. No, no, I'm uncomfortable and I have nothing wrong with breastfeeding at all.

But this is like inappropriate. This is, it's crossing the line. Out of the world inappropriate. Like I'm just, I just don't understand how this was her like conclusion. Yeah. I, like I said, I see how it could be a thought where you're like, oh, it's one of those thoughts where like that sounded better than it was. An intrusive thought even.

An intrusive thought but you want to dismiss it and you don't do it. Or let me out this, you call the mother and you say, hey, I have this like crazy idea. I'm struggling. Maybe I'm crazy but I'm just like super desperate. What do you think about this plan? And then the mother would probably be like, absolutely not. Don't do that ever.

But thanks so much for running that body. Stick a pin in that one and never take out the pin. But you know what I mean? Stick a pin. Yeah, exactly. That's one of those things. Like you don't just do it. That's crazy.

At the end of the day, it's not your baby. No. At the end of the day, it's not your baby. Follow the instructions. Yes. Stick to the plan. Okay. That's inappropriate.

So they asked, who's asking if they're an asshole? The wife. For being mad. So she goes on to say, she breastfed all four of her children when they were babies and it always calmed them down enough to sleep. She was mad that I had checked the camera and told him and it was an invasion of privacy. I don't want her watching my baby anymore.

We can afford a nanny or daycare. When I told my mother-in-law this, she freaked out and said I was being a bitch. And she was just trying to calm the baby down. And it wasn't a big deal. She says I'm taking her grandchild away from her and being unfair. My husband understands why I'm upset but wants to give her another chance to watch the baby.

He also doesn't want to spend the money to get a nanny or do daycare when she can watch our baby for free. Am I being unreasonable here? I'm so upset with her and just completely baffled at why she would do this, that I never even want to see her again. Let alone have her anywhere near my baby.

I think I could possibly be the asshole for checking up on her though through the camera and also for not wanting her to watch my baby anymore. Even though that would mean spending extra money and taking away something she really seems to enjoy doing. Am I the asshole? What do you think? No, I can't imagine, it's very inappropriate

and I can't imagine trusting her to not try this again. And it's like when you're at work, you want to be comfortable knowing your kid is in the proper care. You don't want to be having to constantly check the cameras again to make sure she's not fucking trying to breastfeed your kid. And so for me, I'm like, no, not the asshole. It's your kid, it's your rules. It's what you're comfortable with as a parent.

So, no. I agree with that. It is your rules as a parent, as a non-parent. I don't really know what someone is comfortable with, but what I don't know, here's my thought is, I think she is worth a second shot if this is the one and only offense because the way I see it is I'm assuming that your mother-in-law

has never had any other instances like this with you and that this is like a blip, you know? And I think there should be an agreement moving forward that you're allowed to check the camera at the end of the day. Whatever I want. Yeah, the camera's there for the baby safety, not to check up on anybody. So, I don't think she's the asshole at all for checking the camera.

That's not an invasion of privacy. The camera I'm assuming is in your home to check on your baby. It's there for a reason. You checked on your baby. Some women really struggle with postpartum and being apart from their child at work and going back after maternity leave, I've heard can be really stressful.

It can be. And so, checking it on your baby, if it brings you a little bit of relief and comfort, I think more power to you. So, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it and the mother-in-law is out of line for trying to gaslight her for that. That's what I don't like about this.

Yeah, I don't like it either. I think, okay, second chance, redeemable, okay. But the fact that she immediately got so defensive and was like, you're a bitch. You're a bitch for keeping me away from my grandchild. Versus just being like, you know what? I was wrong. I will never do this again.

I agree. That to me is where I'm like, hmm. I completely agree. I'm also just like, I know people say really crazy things when they feel really hurt. And kind of like what I was saying earlier, some people really die for their grandbabies. So this might have been like a mama bear thing,

where I know she's not the mother, she's the grandmother, but it was like she felt threatened and she was just like- Backed into a corner kind of vibe. Yeah. And the reason I think she's worth another shot too is I'm such like a cost-benefit analysis person. So I look at it this way like- Free childcare?

No, not for childcare. Well, in a sense, yes. But if your mother-in-law is generally trustworthy and somebody that you think has good integrity and knows how to be a good caretaker to your child, and she had one lapse in judgment, you're taking a risk by putting your child in somebody else's hands.

Childcare people, you don't know them. Yeah, they're not family. No, they're trained professionals. Sure, they passed their background check, maybe. But you don't know that they're not going to do questionable practices that you as a mother wouldn't want for your child. So the way I see it is it's a gamble that way too.

You're not insured that this new babysitter- Mike, I just found out about a story. My cousin, when he was a baby, my in Peru, a lot of people have like live-in. This is a bad word, but like maids, they call them. So like women who take care of the children clean cook. That's just kind of a norm in Peru for the middle class and upper class.

I'm not sure why. Cultural, it's a cultural thing. It's all I've known when I go to Peru. So my family was, you know, had those live-in like people who helped with the children. So my aunt went to work one day, left her baby. It was a newer like nanny and my other aunt had stopped by for something.

So the nanny didn't know she was coming by and she could, she kind of heard the baby crying. So she stood outside to see what happened and the baby was crying really loud. And she hears the nanny like she swear and say like shut the, shut the fuck up or something. And she hears a slap sound and then she hears silence. And then she hears the baby burst out into like a pain cry.

Oh my God. It's like a harder cry. So she walks in and sees a handprint like a five star on the baby's leg. And so yeah. So my point to say that story was if she had never come home, she would have never known that her, you know.

Yeah. Nephew was being abused by the nanny and she came home fired the nanny, whatever. So I say this as you don't know, you can't always trust. It's better to have family who do actually know. Yes. So I'm saying, yeah, she made a mistake. She didn't react great,

but I think it's worth another chance with the understanding, mutual understanding that you will and can check those cameras and that the mother-in-law. I would say that too. Like that's my view. I'm going to be checking the cameras. I'm going to be checking the cameras.

If that's a problem, it's a non-starter for me. There you go. I also just, I'm not really sure what their alternative is because they can't afford childcare. They can. Oh, they can. They can afford a nanny or childcare.

So she's like, that's what she wants to do. Okay, got it. She's like, I would way rather do that. Okay. But still, your point is so valid. Give her a shot. And then if there's any other red flag or any discomfort, go get your nanny.

I think for me, I think, I wouldn't pursue her watching the kid again immediately. I think I would let some time pass. And then maybe once the kid is- You want to give her a timeout? I want to give her a timeout. Really, learn what you did, was wrong. And then maybe once the kid is a little older

and more easily soothed, then there's no reason to stick him on your boob again. Like, like- True. Yeah, maybe it's worth saying like, Hey, I just want to get him out of the breastfeeding period. And then we don't have to worry about that. And you don't have to stress out about it,

kind of make it like a mutual thing. And then re-invite her to watch the child. Exactly. You just don't know how turbulent it's going to be, you know? I know. The mother-in-law dynamic is very, very complicated, especially with children. There's a lot of research on this one where,

as a woman, we are obviously more close with our mothers and more trusting of our mothers to watch our children than our husbands or our partners' mothers. So there's what's called the matriarchal benefit. And it's something that my brother and his wife are very open with family and watching their kids. That's one thing they've really, really done a good job with. They're like, we only really want family watching our kids.

So we know who's taking care of them. Yeah. But I think there are times where my mom has been kind of like, I just feel excluded. Like, why didn't they ask me or things like that? And it's just different when your son has a child versus if you have a daughter and your daughter has a child. I agree.

Like the son here is kind of in this, like, oh, let's give her another shot. Like, it's no big deal. True. But then again, I'm over here. But that's an interesting point. And one thing I've thought about too, just personally, because we live in Los Angeles, being like, I don't have that luxury of,

I'm just going to pop over to my mom's house and like drop off my child. I know. And I think that is, can't be understated. Like that's such a luxury to have that. Such a luxury. For not only just financial reasons, but there's something. Just comfort.

Yeah, comfort. So top comment on this one, not the asshole. No normal human tries to breastfeed a child. They are entrusted to look after. This is not healthy slash sane behavior. I would be concerned that she has other issues. Her reaction is telling as well. Again, a normal human would be supremely embarrassed

and apologize. She may be lashing out because she's embarrassed, but it's not acceptable for her to swear at you or gasp, be incensed that you used the baby monitor for its intended purpose. Exactly. I agree with her reaction. It was out of line.

I just, when I think about it's hard because we're getting a glimpse of like the mother-in-law is like, fuck up and not the mother-in-law as a person. You know, if we were all judged on one instance where we felt embarrassed, we'd seem like shitty humans. For sure. I just think like, obviously you don't have to cut her off for this. No.

But like, if your boundary is her not watching your kid, like, I do think it's pretty fair. Oh yeah, if that's really what you think. Sure, go ahead. But this comment too includes an edit. That's kind of relevant to what we've said. I'm including responses I've written to some of the buh buh buh buh but wet-nursing crowd.

Because I'm not talking about wet-nursing or mutually agreed on co-nursing. Those things are not relevant to OP, OP's culture or community. It is bizarre that people are pointing out trends and practices that do not apply to this OP and her mother-in-law. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's true. There was no mention of an arrangement. No, and she would have.

And plus that's her mother-in-law. It's not like a friend that's also got a baby. Yeah. And you switch off days. Exactly. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, that's tough.

Not the asshole if that's what you decide ultimately. Next comment after. This is exactly right. Clearly, mother-in-law's judgment cannot be trusted. I wouldn't trust mother-in-law alone with the baby in any capacity. And I definitely wouldn't trust her to provide daycare services. Mother-in-law crossed a boundary. That should have been obvious.

And why would she think latching the baby to her breast would calm the baby down? There's no milk. I find this so revolting. But isn't it the sucking sensation? Typically, when a baby starts suckling like that, there needs to be a reward. There needs to be milk.

Otherwise, they just become more frustrated and more upset. But that completely defeats the theory behind pacifiers that have been shown to work. Pat, it's different. It's shown to work. It's, pacifiers definitely have been shown to work. But there's a difference between a nipple and a pacifier. Yes, granted, there are some that are shaped very different. But there's something to be said about the latching and the breast connection.

There's a lot of physiological things that happen when the baby latches. And that's why a lot of mothers talk about breastfeeding being this ultimate bonding experience for them and their child. But no, sucking is a comfort thing, especially if the baby is teething. I don't think it's absolutely ludicrous to think that a baby's sucking sensation would not replicate the latching. I get that. But then use a pacifier.

Like, your breast is... I agree. But I'm saying this person's getting really fired up about something that they're assuming. They don't know that the grandma was assuming for the baby to try and get milk. No, but I still think there's better options than giving a baby your tit. There are, but their comment's not saying that. And why would she think latching the baby to her breast would calm the baby down?

There's no milk, which is kind of... There's no milk. Neither would a pacifier. No, but pacifiers are different than nipples. There's a different experience for a baby latching on a nipple than there is a pacifier. That's not what I'm saying, that that's not a different experience. I'm just saying it's not crazy to think that it couldn't replicate the experience. But I think the baby is going to have a nipple in its mouth and get very,

very confused and therefore more frustrated. Got it. Then that's the point to me. Yeah. A breast is a breast. A baby's association with a boob is milk. It's food. It's life.

It's sustenance. That at this point, the baby's only two months old. Well, that makes sense. But to say, like, that's the part I'm getting upset over is, okay, but tell that to all the people who rely on pacifiers, which I personally know of people. Yeah, I know a lot of people use pacifiers to, you know, soothe their children.

But at this stage in the game, the baby's two months old, their association with the breast is food. So when they start suckling on a nipple and it doesn't produce food for them, they're going to get more and more frustrated. Like, my brother's wife really struggled with breastfeeding. She wasn't producing. And so it became this frustrating experience for her where she wasn't producing. The baby is trying to latch and get milk and the baby was becoming more and more upset,

crying more. And it just, it was a really hard experience for both of them. So a baby's association at this point is breast food. Got it. It's just not, it's not going to calm the baby down. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just like, just again, if you think the baby's hungry and that's why they're upset,

bottle. Sure. Suck. You want to suck, have the baby suck on something to calm down, pacifier. But like, I think the comment, like both of these are really trying to point out like, no sane person would be like, oh, here's my, here's my tit. You would never. I don't know.

Like, I think that's kind of. You would never pull out your tit. I wouldn't. I don't even know if I want to have a kid. So I cannot picture feeding a non-existent child. But I'm just saying like, I think that's a little like to call the person insane. I don't know. I'm not a mother, so I can't put myself there.

But to call the person insane, I think is like a reach. Like, especially when your child is crying, people do really desperate things to sue the crying baby. Yeah. I mean, that's why, you know, overly exhausted parents, I mean, shaken baby syndrome and these kids end up dead when people go crazy. That's what I mean. So like, I'm not, listen, I want to be very clear. I am not in any way saying right on grandma, you did the right thing.

What I'm saying is to call her insane and say there's other things wrong with her is a, is a little bit of a reach in my opinion, based off of this situation. I don't think like that's insane. Like you're desperate. You're trying to sue this, this child. Yes. Was that the right move? No, clearly not.

The science you just pointed out, factual, impressive, great. That's what all mothers should know. But in that moment, I don't think she was sitting there and thinking about that. I think she was just like, I want to sue this child. It probably wants a nipple. Uh, like here you go. Like, do I think that's the right move? No.

But do I think that's like, holy shit, you Ted Bundy lock her up? Like no. I just think don't have her watch your kids. Sure. Like in my head, no rational person who is like a responsible babysitter would ever make another baby that isn't theirs suck on their boob. Yeah. That's just that.

And that's just, that's where I'm at with this one. Yeah. I'm like, what the fuck lady? Right. Hi, Jan from Toyota speaking. Jan, I heard it's a good time to buy Toyota. Sure is. From now until April 4th, you can shop all your favorites like Corolla,

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Dealer inventory may vary. One last baby related story. Okay. Am I the asshole for wanting my mom to be in the delivery room when my wife has our baby? My wife, Alice, 28 female is seven months pregnant. She's starting to think about who she'd like to have in the delivery room when the time comes. She said she would really like her dad there for support. Alice is really close with her dad since she was a kid and has only grown closer to him

since her mom died, so that was no surprise. I'm completely fine with having Doug there. She said she doesn't want her stepmom there, which is fine. Her stepmom is really sweet, has been so helpful through the entirety of the pregnancy, and I know she will be hurt when she finds out she can't be there, but I can understand. The issue I have is that Alice doesn't want my mom there. My mom has never been my wife's biggest fan, but she is so excited to have a grandchild and has been planning on being in the delivery room the entire pregnancy and likely before.

Like I said, my mom has been hard on Alice and can be a little judgmental, but she's still the grandmother of our child and wants to be there. She's also my mother, and I find it unfair that she can have her dad there, but I can't have my mom there. It's a high-risk pregnancy, and Alice has been really adamant about trying to give birth naturally, but she claims that if things take a turn and she wants an epidural, or there needs to be an emergency C-section for whatever reason, she is worried about the judgment from my mom because my mom has openly expressed her distaste

for both. Additionally, she says my mom is not the nicest to her. I know my mom has been a little harsh about her weight gain, even though about 30 pounds, she was 120 before. Allegedly, when my wife went over to my parents' house recently, she dropped a plate on the floor, and my mom yelled at her while she made her get down on the floor and clean it up. Oh my gosh.

I understand where Alice is coming from, and while she'll be the one giving birth, he is my child as much as hers, and I feel like I should be allowed to have my mom there. My wife and I got into a scuffle about this before she started crying, and the issue was dropped. She told me that I was being selfish, but I feel like she was being selfish too. Am I the asshole for wanting my mom to be in the delivery room while my wife has our baby? Honestly, kind of, yeah.

Yeah. I got a solution for you, Alice. Don't invite your asshole of a husband in either, because clearly, he is not getting how fucking toxic his mom is. Holy cow. Why would you want a woman in the delivery room with you who is shaming you about your weight gain? 30 pounds?

Yeah. That's normal for pregnancy. 150 is pretty light for a person. I'm 150. I'm over 150. So yeah, who would want, what? I don't, the plate thing from, okay. Yeah, the plate thing is degrading.

She's been harsh on Alice. Commenting on the weight gain, the plate thing. She accidentally dropped a plate, and you're going to make a fucking pregnant woman who probably can't even see her own vagina or feet bend down, and clean up a plate, and yell at her, and degrade her. Yeah, no, fuck that. And also, I think the biggest issue for me, why I wouldn't want this person in the delivery room, well too.

She's mean to her. And on what I would imagine is probably one of the most stressful days of your life, and one of the most painful days of your life. You don't want somebody who represents embarrassment and degrading nature. You don't want that person around you. And then second, they're very judgmental towards something that may be an alternative beyond your control. That's going to add a layer of stress,

because now you feel judged when you're just trying to fucking give life. And unfortunately, you might need an epidural or a C-section, and your mother-in-law is going to scoff at you. No, I don't want that person anywhere near me. No. No. And this is the other thing, like yeah, she's judging her for her birth plan.

She's trying to do it naturally. And honestly, maybe she really chose the natural method, because of how big of a bitch the mother-in-law is. Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. And that might be dangerous for her, especially if she's a high-risk pregnancy. You just don't, a high-risk pregnancy, like depending on what it is, like preclampsia, or all these other things,

going through labor naturally, or even like not having a C-section, could be life-threatening for this woman. Like, don't judge people, or fucking try to influence their birth plans. Let a person, unless it's like the fucking at-home crazy birth. Did she mention that it's influenced by her mother-in-law's distaste? No, but this is coming from, you know, the husband's point of view. So we don't really have the wife's point of view, but I mean, she's been adamant about trying to give naturally,

but she claims that if things take a turn and she wants an epidural, or there needs to be a C-section, she is worried about the judgment from my mom, because my mom has openly expressed distaste for both. Yeah, that's like kind of a non-starter for me. Like that in and of itself, it's kind of like say less. Everything else is like add-on factors, but that right there to me would be the killer.

Like I would say, no, this person can't be in the room. This is one of the most stressful times of your life. And also it's going to be, you know, once you are through this, it's going to be, you know, the most rewarding potentially. Yeah. You know, baby blues are a real thing, guys, and we'll have an episode on postpartum. But like you want that intimate moment with the people that are closest with you.

Right. Not somebody that makes you feel bad and unsafe and like hurt. Like that's a person that doesn't make you feel good. No. That's not the energy that you want around a very difficult time. Exactly. And process and just fucking painful. Like what can you imagine?

And no, you could if, okay, if her pattern of treating you is already shitty, like she continuously, what makes you think she's going to be pleasant on that day? Like she might say shitty things to you during labor. Yeah. And stress you out even more and make you mad and make that like taint the experience. Can completely agree. And I just think giving birth is such an intimate, vulnerable state. Like you're, you know, depending on what style you go, you're either in a pool, naked,

spread open, you're spread eagle in a bed. Yeah. Like there's a difference between having your dad in the room and saying, hey dad, stick up by my head versus having the mother-in-law in the room who, you know, you can only control so many people and so many factors while you're trying to push out a fucking watermelon. So I think for that it's like, I love Justin's mom, but I'm kind of in the same boat. Like I want my mom there and Justin and that's probably it because I love Justin's mom,

but I don't want Justin's mom seeing my vagina and seeing me tear and seeing me potentially poop myself if we go down this road. That's true. Like there's just a different intimacy with your parents versus your partner's parents. You would have who again? Your mom, Justin. That's it. Okay.

I thought there was a third person. No. Unless I have a water birth with fucking dolphins because look that shit up. What? That sounds terrible. No dolphins. I've like proven to reduce pain. Really?

And like make water birth. Like just look up dolphin assisted births you guys. I will. It's so fucking cool. Wow. Interesting. But I think like too with this whole thing it's like the husband using the term like apparently, like apparently by mom.

It sounds like he's, doesn't buy it. He's, he's very much a mama's boy. Yeah. Which is a red flag in and of itself. Mama's boys and enmeshed sons will always choose their mom over their wives. Typically it is a very, very hard cycle to break. Yeah. And having your partner pick his mom over you and not supporting you barf.

And it's difficult because when you hear couples having babies, it's like we are having a baby. You know, we are delivering and we are doing a C-section. And I feel like part of me be like, is it really we? I'm pushing this fucking baby out. Okay. Are you pushing something out of your dick? I didn't think so. It's me.

So yes, it's our baby. But part of me would start to get a little upset because of this write-in like. Yeah. You don't get to pick. Why is he so entitled? Yeah. Like I get it. It's a joint decision and all of this is like a team and you're both going to decide who's in the room.

But at the end of the day, if it's controversial, in my opinion, she should have the final say. Absolutely. Because she's the one who's going to be physically distressed and just an emotionally distressed. And at the end of the day, like, yes, at the end of the day, her husband, yes, he is also stressed. He is there. This is his baby too, or husband, wife. I don't really know. But he is not the one physically going through it.

He's not the one physically going through it. And so if it's even this controversial, you should just default and be like, you know what? Love you, sweetie. Your call. Yes, it's your call. And I want you to be comfortable. I want this baby to come into a comfortable, healthy, happy environment. Sorry, mom.

And that's tough. Like how do you tell your mom? But at the same time, you just tell her like she doesn't really love the idea of you seeing everything going on down there. No, and you don't need to throw your wife under the bus either. It's just a very easy, you know what? She only wants me and her dad in the room. That's it. It's going to be very intimate.

Yes, that's perfect. You'll be able to come in and see the baby as soon as we're done. Immediately, exactly. Like whatever. One of the top comments, overall vote, it was undeniably asshole. Yes, good. So top comment, you're the asshole. This is a decision only for your wife to make.

She is the one giving birth. Even if she had no reason to exclude your mother, you would be in the wrong for trying to coerce her regarding this extremely personal medical experience, even if she didn't want you in the room. That is 100% her decision to make. Furthermore, from your description, your mother has been outright abusive to her. From verbally and emotionally harassing her about her weight to her pregnancy choices to eventually screaming at a pregnant person to get on the floor and clean up a broken dish. There is no excuse for her actions.

Grandparents don't generally have any rights to their grandchildren. And frankly, I wouldn't fault your wife if she decided to never ever let her child meet your mother for fear of potential abuse. Damn. That is a good point. OP replies. Oh, shit. I have never seen the behavior that Alice has described. I've only heard some snide remarks on occasion.

She acts fine around me. My wife isn't one to lie, but my mom is typically a sweet person. To you. Well, let's see. How do those two things coexist? Like typically a sweet person. To you. Yeah, to you.

Her golden boy. Her mama's boy. Yeah. I've heard some snide remarks. Okay. Do you think snide remarks are okay? Yeah, snide remarks are snide remarks. God.

You still don't get it. Someone replies. Your mother could be the nicest, sweetest, most caring person Alice in the world. And it's still 100% Alice's decision about who is in the room. Birth is very painful, very intimate, and your wife's comfort is the only thing that matters. It's not about fairness. It's about support for your wife. Okay, good.

I'm glad. I thought I was going to get yelled at for saying that this should be the wife's decision because some people are like, no, this is a joint decision. No. After, you know, it's a joint decision what happens and how you raise your child after it's here. But a birth plan should be solely up to the person that is fucking going through it. That's what I thought. I just don't know how these things work.

Unless it is extremely dangerous. Like another story I've talked about where it's like totally unassisted home birth. Unless it's super dangerous, then other people might have to step in. But this is not. That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. This is not. Yeah.

These are things I have not thought about, but that's insane. And I, I agree. Like my deep down thought is that it's really her decision. And this shouldn't even be up for debate. If she doesn't feel comfortable with her, whether or not the reasons are apparently or real. Yeah. It doesn't matter. It's her comfort.

Yeah. There's another really long comment. Like you're the asshole, your wife is going to be vulnerable, half naked, not much dignity left kind of position. There could be blood. There could be poop yelling, screaming. She needs people who will support her. And it sounds like your mom hasn't exactly done that.

Your mom commenting on weight. She's gained during pregnancy is so far from okay. They go on to say a bunch of other stuff and OP replies. So her father gets to see her naked pooping, et cetera. That doesn't seem the slightest bit weird to you. I hate this guy. I hate this guy. Asshole.

No, that's not fucking weird. It's her father who literally saw her come into the world probably. Exactly. And also like a lot of people have like birthing gowns these days. Yeah. And there's that thingy of the little shade guy. Well, the birthing gown like typically is like some people put it over their knees. Like the dad can stay up by the head, hold her hand.

But if it's a C-section, I've seen that they put up like that little curtain thing. They drape. They drape. Yeah. And we don't know what's going to happen. No, you don't see. You know, it's very. Yeah.

I mean, they're slicing open. And also even if it's not, the dad probably, I don't know. I'm really assuming, but the dad's probably not going to be all up in there staring. No. Probably going to be holding his daughter's hand. Looking at her face. Probably kind of looking, trying not to look. I would have hoped if he's like a normal guy, you know.

Fuck you. That's her dad. Like fuck off. Also extra, extra fuck you to this dude because of the fact she lost her mom. Yeah. So I'm sure her dad. Fuck off. I'm sure her dad probably wasn't her first ideal choice, but that's her dad.

Her mom is gone. That's all she has. Yeah. And oh, her stepmom's going to be so hurt. Also, that's a really good point though, because that's actually perfect for the, like the reason, like her step, like mom, don't be too offended. Her stepmom's not even going to be in the room. No.

That's closer to her than you are. I mean, I think I'm assuming here, but so, I mean, no, fuck it. Move on. That's not you move on. Like him move on. Yeah. Get over yourself. Let your wife call the shots.

I'm almost so sorry that she has to have a child with this man, but. I know. Another comment. This is a medical procedure. Not fucking pay-per-view. Yeah. So true. Like who gets a ticket?

Yeah. No, come on. Get it together, people. No. Yeah. On to the next one. Yeah. Wow.

Am I the asshole for suggesting to my daughter-in-law that she leaves my son? Please understand the context before judging. My son is a healthy 30-year-old and his wife, Alexa, 28, has a chronic illness. She has a lot of pain and she has good days and bad days. It's not like she's bedridden or can't do anything, but there are limits. There is no cure for this illness. The condition can only be managed. She was diagnosed about three years ago now.

My son now spends a lot of his time taking care of Alexa, researching about her condition and arranging their lives around trying different types of ways to manage her condition. They have been together since high school and I know that my son loves her to bits. I'm also really fond of her myself and would love to see her doing better, but the undeniable reality is that this is really affecting my son in a negative way. He isn't as carefree and happy as he used to be, which I understand is part of just being an adult as well,

but he's just so worn down and not himself a lot of the time. I brought this up and also brought up carers fatigue to him and also broached the subject of possibly starting to resent Alexa in the future. My son was initially very defensive, but then I think him and Alexa discussed and they started seeing a counselor that specializes in this kind of situation. However, I just hate seeing him waste away like this, and I tried to gently suggest to him many times that it might be best if he separate from Alexa, but keep supporting her as a friend rather than spend the rest of his life living like this.

He did not like that at all, got very upset, and the last time I brought this up he threatened to stop talking to me at all if I keep suggesting this. I only do so because I care about him. I know he's trying to do the right thing and be noble and he's optimistic that they are going to find a treatment plan that works well enough for her to function normally. But of course there's no guarantee and with the way things went last year,

it just got me thinking how we really need to treasure life. So this time instead of bringing this up to my son, I brought it up to Alexa and suggested that she leave my son. She was really shocked at first, but she also cried and said she does feel like a burden, but then she kept repeating how much she loves my son and couldn't leave him even if she does feel selfish. I told her to think about it and I thought that'd be the end of that,

but I guess she told my son because he called me and was so angry. Spoke through gritted teeth and told me to stop making his wife feel like shit and putting ideas into her head as if she's a toddler. He's also called my husband and asked him to speak to me and get me to be more respectful of his decisions or he won't talk to me anymore. I just feel so badly about the whole thing, but I also do feel that as his mother, I need to try to at least get him to see the options

and get him to truly enjoy his life. But I understand I might have overstepped. Am I the asshole? Yes. Absolutely. What? Like this is love, you choose love and your son is choosing to be in love with,

like you don't get to choose who you fall in love with, but love is a choice because it's an act every single day to continue to make the relationship work in this sense. He actively chooses to look past the downfalls and maybe the fatigue of, like the fatigue they talk about caregivers fatigue. This is his choice. He wants this for himself because he loves this person so much

and he's going to do whatever it takes to be with this person and that's his decision to make. And to plant these seeds in his head is so cruel and unfair. I think that's such an asshole move. Yeah. Like this is your son, he can make his own decisions and he loves her and people sometimes choose to stay with people

who have terminal illnesses. And they know that that person's going to probably not have lived very long and they know they're about to encounter enormous heartbreak. But you don't get to tell that person that you can't love them and that it's too hard to love them and it's too difficult and too much on you. Your son wants to do this so...

He's choosing that. Yeah, it's almost offensive to tell him that he can't handle it. No, and just because someone has a chronic illness or a disability or whatever else it may be, it doesn't make their life any less meaningful or enjoyable while they're here. Yeah, it might be a little tougher. They might have pain,

things might be more difficult for them, but they can still have a meaningful, happy life. Yeah, and this makes her feel like chopped liver. You're not worth love. You're not worth the effort. You're not worth him staying for. Like what? A lot of people do write their own vows,

but when you get married, if you did the traditional vow in sickness and in health, what the fuck, lady? Exactly. This is such a fucked up move for so many reasons, but it just, that makes me feel so icky for this person. It's terrible. For this couple, I guess.

Toxic ass mom. So toxic. She needs to back off. Her son is doing his best, and if this is what he chooses and it's a struggle every fucking day, he chose that struggle and he loves that struggle. And you don't know what it is.

There's not a lot of info for me to even try to deduce what it is, but it's like she's young, could be MS, could be a number of things, but there's treatment methods that work, and if they just found this out recently, it takes time to find the right cocktail, the right group of therapies or medicines.

It's a time process, but it doesn't always have to be this bad, depending on what it is. Like you just don't know. She didn't give us a lot of info. Exactly. I just don't think you get to back out of something because you think it's too difficult.

Like it's like having a child, and the child has Down syndrome, or the child has some type of illness or something that they have to live with. And to sit, you know, you put the child up for adoption because it's too hard. It's too much stress on you.

It's just, it's wearing me down. I'm not as happy as I used to be. Of course, you're maybe like dealing with some things because this is a hard thing to deal with. But that's saying to the child, you're not worth the extra work. Worth the extra love and work that I have to put into you.

That's what, when she called her up and said, you should leave my son, it's like, you're not worth it. Like you're just not. No, I don't know. No, and I think she should have taken the hints from the fact that it didn't go over well with her son. Yes.

That's your son. Okay. If you want to say your fucking out-of-pocket comments to your son, that's on you and being a shitty fucking mom. Yeah, exactly. But to then approach your daughter-in-law? No.

No. Keep that shit to yourself. That's so, you've just damaged your relationship with probably both your son and your daughter-in-law. Both. Both. Yeah. No, you're the asshole for sure.

No doubt. Definitely got the overall vote. Yes. Okay, good. Top comment. You're the asshole. Stay out of his relationship. Yes.

I find out about this. I'd never talk to you again. Someone goes, I might have overstepped. Might? Might? What about his reaction gives you an idea that you might have overstepped? Maybe he should cut contact with you completely.

Maybe then you'd realize what you did was wrong. Being a parent does not give you the right to plow through boundaries set by your son. Agreed. Your son, he said what he said. Like he didn't stutter. He said what he said, so take it for what it is. Someone comments, you're the asshole.

What would happen if roles were reversed and your son was the one with the chronic illness? An OP replies, if I'm being very honest, I think I would tell Alexa the same thing, even though it would hurt me to just suggest so. I think it's easy to say now, but I don't know. I mean, maybe she genuinely is like, down.

Believes that. I don't know. Yeah, someone replies back to OP and go, you fundamentally don't understand what love is, do you? Yeah. Because from everything you've said, the answer is no. Yeah, it's like, oh, it's inconvenient, it's tough, it's a struggle.

Oops, can't do it anymore. Love is unconditional. Yeah. Well, and this is something that's very interesting. That points me to believe she's probably a narcissist, is for narcissistic parents, love isn't unconditional. It's very conditional. And like for some of these narcissistic parents,

they look at their child as an extension of themselves. And so for her and her eyes, her son is an extension of her. She wants her son to have the very best. Right. So having a wife with a chronic illness is not the very best for her son. Right. So. And it also in narcissistic relationships,

like they actually tend to view their partners as sources. And so if she's looking at it from that perspective, like this is a weak source because they can only give you so much. And they're taking more than they're giving. And you know, this is the perspective of a narcissist. And so it's like this, if that's true, then from a narcissistic perspective, it's like people are expendable if they're no longer an ideal source.

And so she's maybe seeing it that way too is like, this isn't love. It's like you said, it's conditional. And they're not following through. This is a source that I don't need. You can go get a better source. Yeah. Just, yeah, you're so well said.

I think, and there's a difference between like being a narcissist and then having narcissistic personality disorder. Like they're two very different things. But like in this woman's case, it's like something's definitely off. Yeah. I definitely don't know if I got enough from it to think she's a narcissist, but that's like a theory. Yeah.

I mean, just based on her responses too, it's like looking at, she looks at him. She has a distorted view of love. Definitely. Definitely. And maybe it's just like she disassociates from it and looks at relationships very source-based and very what can you do for me. And if it's not benefiting me, which is another narcissistic trait, like you said, it's along these same lines where it's like,

if that person isn't benefiting you, you don't interact with them anymore. Exactly. But there's also this crazy theory, and this is like the very like little bit more far-fetched one where she's actually just so obsessed with her son and so like loves her son so much because she loves her son more than the daughter-in-law. That's very clear. And it could be, like I said, this is the far-fetched theory that she really genuinely doesn't see how out of pocket she's being.

She's just like, I want the best for my son. And I genuinely see him so worn down and so fatigued and just like this is like, because no parent wants to see their son or their kid struggle. And so maybe she's just getting her own in her own way and being like, I see these things for my son and I just, I don't know what to do, but I want to make it go away. And I'm not even thinking about what the implications of that are. And I don't even think about how like insensitive and inappropriate that is.

I'm just focused on how can I make my son feel better? How can I relieve my son of this quote unquote obligation of taking care of her, even though he doesn't see it that way. He's like, no, I love this woman. Yeah. I mean, it's like, if you really care, step up to help. Exactly. Take her to doctor's appointments. Step in when your son needs a break.

And there's also, you know, for those out there listening, there's also like different agencies and services that provide respite care. So it's like, you're a caregiver of someone and you really, really need a break or you need to run errands. There's respite care where someone will come in and help. There's ways to cope with stuff like this. So it's like the fact that the first instinct is to like divorce her and support her as a friend.

Yeah. So true. Fuck off, lady. So insensitive. So insensitive. Yeah. On to the next one. This one is from the perspective of the husband. Okay.

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Toyota, let's go places. See your participating Toyota dealer for details. Dealer inventory may vary. Am I the asshole for putting my foot down and saying my mother-in-law can't move in with us? My 31 male wife, 33 female, is an only child and extremely close with her parents. We live on opposite sides of the country from her parents, but they talk up to four times per day. And as far as I'm concerned,

my wife acts as their remote personal assistant, shopper, accountant, tech support specialist. I've been really up front with my wife to say I'm a bit jealous of the attention they get, as anything between my wife and I is subject to being derailed if her phone rings. My wife is sympathetic, but says she's not going to pick favorites between me and her parents. When they do visit, particularly at Christmas, they and my wife insist on them staying with us for a week in our one bedroom condo. That's tight.

We've done this for the last eight years, which has actually turned into a bit of a miserable time of the year for me as a result. I love my wife, so I deal with it. It's not a secret I'm not a fan of the arrangement, but I'm not interested in ruining Christmas, so I'm a good sport about it. Anyways, my father-in-law is suffering from Alzheimer's, and I have suspected that he has been for as long as I've known him, eight years. My mother-in-law has been in complete denial about this up until very recently,

where they have just started with the process of having him placed in a care home as his condition is quite severe. Meanwhile, the pandemic has affected my wife and I to a point it makes sense to move into a bigger place out of the city. My wife has expressed her interest that once her dad is placed, she would like her mom to come move in with us, and so our home should have an in-law suite or other suitable accommodations. My mother-in-law can't afford to move on her own.

They made some bad financial decisions that aren't able to move to a higher cost of living area. After years of being patient and respectful about this, I finally put my foot down, and I've cited the following reasons. One, my mother-in-law will be contributing nothing financially to this arrangement, but selecting a home with accommodations for her is both limiting our housing options. My wife and I will both have to sacrifice things we want in a home. I'm extremely insecure that there will be no boundaries in this arrangement, even if they are established ahead of time.

And three, I simply cannot think of a time where I shared a roof with her and felt any level of comfort, satisfaction, or enjoyment about the situation. I just can't. And the idea of committing to a long-term arrangement like that makes me completely queasy. Naturally, this hasn't gone over well. Am I the asshole? Well, negative Nancy. No, not the asshole.

He's kind of negative about every... I mean, I understand it's probably not pleasant, but he's like, I can't think of a single moment where I've enjoyed a single ounce of this company. But I don't think he's the asshole because I think he's setting boundaries, and he has a right to live his life. And he's creating a life with his wife. When you marry somebody, yes, their family comes with them, but you're not marrying their mother.

You're not marrying their father. You're not marrying their brother. You're marrying that individual. And family means different things to different family, different people. You know, your level of attachment, your level of involvement with your family is totally unique to the individual. But if this person is putting their foot down and saying, I'm not comfortable with this, I didn't sign on to this.

It's not like he married her and all of these things were in place. And he's trying to undo. That's not me peeing. That's Morgan topping off my margarita. Clearly, she thinks I need more for this story. It does sound like peeing. It does. That's why I was like, let's clarify really quick.

Yeah, I just had to top that off. Okay, sorry. No, good call. I didn't even know that you had that. That's really sneaky. Instead of bringing like a flask to a party, Morgan just brought the handle to the podcasting station to make sure that we are well taken care of.

But do you know, does that make sense? Yeah. I think it's, he didn't sign up for any of this. And I feel like such an asshole saying that, especially because Alzheimer's hits really home for me right now. But it's at the end of the day, you gotta like set your standards. Completely agree. And I think a lot of people, I'll start with one.

To me, this sounds like enmeshment. It is not normal to call your parents four times a day. That's not normal. That's like, you have to live your own life at some point. And for her to drop everything, even if it's them doing something, for her to drop everything to always choose her parents, she says, oh, I don't want to pick favorites. But you're choosing your parents constantly over your partner,

which that is a big reason people get divorced. When you get married, you are choosing your partner. That is where your loyalty lies. And so with an enmeshment and enmeshed family, they expect your loyalty to be undying to them. And so it sounds to me like there's just an unhealthy parent-child relationship going on with his wife. And I think, and this is not the case for every only child,

but I think this often happens with only children. Because the parent-child relationship is automatically so different. There's not another kid to share burden with or parents' attention. It's solely focused on that one child. That one child is their life. There's only one child. And an only child has different expectations than kids with siblings. Only children oftentimes grow up a lot faster too.

They don't have peers, siblings. They have their parents they interact with the most. They grow up a lot quicker. And are therefore more oftentimes more attached. And so to me, this sounds like enmeshment, where the wife is kind of throwing her partner's needs away and picking her parents over her partner. And I don't think like, yeah, support your mom.

Like support your mom and make sure your dad is taking care of terrible diagnosis. Like he definitely needs to be taken care of properly and your mom should be supported. But that doesn't mean she needs to move in with you. Yeah. I think if it's temporary, it's a lot easier to stomach. It's one thing if they're visiting. But yeah, exactly. And to kind of snowball off the enmeshment,

like I recently talked about that with a friend. And I think that this friend has enmeshment with their parent for like a number of reasons. But this person's also an only child. And one thing that we kind of realized was we think the enmeshment kind of stems from like a little bit of trauma bonding. And like they're often conflated, but they're different things. But the trauma bonding can lead to enmeshment. 100%.

And so here I'm wondering if like the Alzheimer's, that's very traumatic. It's he's been battling it for eight years. I'm wondering if there's a little bit of enmeshment because there's a little bit of trauma bonding. Like I don't know. It's hard to say, but I wonder if she would jump so quickly for her mom's calls if the father didn't have Alzheimer's. I'm sure it's gotten worse.

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying it didn't exist. Before that, I'm saying I think it might like amplify it and exaggerate it. 1000 fucking percent. And it's hard to blame because I think if one of my parents had something like that, like a terrible disease. You jump through hoops to make sure they're good.

You jump through hoops, but I agree. Like you still made a commitment to your partner and you have to honor that. And you can't just throw that completely down the shitter to tend to these things. Because at the end of the day, like, I don't know, this is where it gets really hard because my mom talks a lot about cultural differences between white people and Latina families. Asian communities, their elders live with them. It's typically the son's responsibility.

And as a daughter-in-law, you would move in with your husband's family and take care of his parents. Well, yeah, like my Peruvian family is the same way. And so like for me, my mom always tells me how like she's, and there's nothing wrong with this. It's just the opinion of a Peruvian mother. She's like shocked that people in America put their family members in homes. It's shocking to her. She can't stomach that. And if I ever did that to her, she'd never talk to me again.

Like the expectation is that they raise you and then when they need the care at an elderly age, they come back to live with you. And so I think this is, I don't, we don't know the race or the culture here. That's kind of makes it tough to not to say it makes it any better or worse. There is an edit. Oh, okay. But I completely agree. You know what I mean?

I think different cultures have different expectations with how they care for their elders, their family. I think that's a great, great, great point because at me, as a white individual, I, you know, you oftentimes forget something like this that is a big factor in how we handle our problems and deal with situations. So thank you for bringing in Peruvian experience. Well, my mom and I just had this conversation not that long ago. I forget what she said, but she made a joke and she was just like,

I do this because I don't want you to put me in a home. Like she's just like, I'm trying to buy the brownie points now. And so it's all the point. Right, right. She's like playing the long game, but that's why it came to mine. I was like, well, actually, I fear that my mom might be upset if I don't let her live with me when she's older. So I don't know.

Mine just told me that she never wants to be put in a nursing home. Yeah. I don't think anybody does. So I don't know. I know. Let's hear this edit. So edit. He goes, okay, wow, I'm a little speechless, but I can address a few things.

My father-in-law won't be dumped and abandoned on the other side of the country. His situation has gotten so severe that it's urgent he be placed. But yes, they would transfer him to near wherever we ended up. Good. Some have suggested that we look into senior housing near where we end up for my mother-in-law to live in. I have advocated for this, but I'm not getting any traction here. I guess I never addressed this until now because I thought that would be a perfectly

reasonable compromise. Turns out it is not. We are both white. I'm completely aware that these situations are typical in other cultures. That doesn't really make me feel any better, but I've thought about it from this lens. I'm not an only child. Both my parents are alive and we have a good relationship. They also live in another part of the country.

I haven't seen them in eight years at Christmas time because it's so important to my wife and her family. Try not to come across as a martyr here, but I legitimately care that my wife is happy, even if I don't completely understand it. Which also makes me really, really, really believe it. That this is enmeshment because of the fact that she refuses to not spend Christmas with her family. Yeah.

Eight years of only being with one side. I've already gotten into fight with Brett about this. This is so unfair. Yes. I was so unfair. I made a comment and he was like, I can't come to Minnesota during Christmas. I can't be away from my family.

I was like, switch off. You can though. You can. You're choosing not to. Yeah. You can. What do you think families do? They switch off.

I don't know. My boy. It's really, really complicated. And I think we both come from very diverse homes where both of our parents are not together. If me and Justin and Justin's parents aren't together either, my boyfriend. So it's like, if you look at how many Christmases we have to go to. Double whammy. We are literally like the fucking Reese Witherspoon movie for Christmases.

Oh yeah. Wait, wasn't it like eight Christmases? Was it four? It's four Christmases. So me and Justin both have four Christmases. I technically have five because my family is just fucking batshit crazy and really splits things up now. But he has his moms Christmas. But then his grandma does something at her house.

And then he has his dad's Christmas. And then I have my mom. There's so many things we have to juggle. So we have talked about how do we navigate this going forward. And it's just really, it's switching off. It's accommodating. All families feel fair and included. Right.

Right. I completely agree with that. Eight years? Yes. Of not seeing your family at Christmas time? I would be livid. Because no. That makes me really think there's something off here.

That's interesting. I personally, unless he voluntarily is like, no, screw my family. I don't want to see them on Christmas. Sure, whatever. But it doesn't sound like that's the case. He's like, I'm compromising here to make her happy. Exactly. How could you feel good about that?

Even if my significant other was like, I'm willing to compromise eight Christmases to be with your family, I'd be like, that makes me sad. You should be with your family. That's so unfair. That would be a deal breaker for me. Yeah. I really would.

Someone who doesn't give a shit about my feelings or wanting to spend Christmas with my family like a major holiday. Yeah. Because I think the shitty part too, and I know Brett means well, we've talked about this too. But when he says I won't spend a Christmas away from my family, what I hear is that my family doesn't matter enough. Like, and maybe that's me taking it the wrong way,

but he's not saying like, he's saying like, because he's expecting me to go to his or something. So. Or for you guys to both be separate. Exactly. Which that's not how it works. Exactly. How does that work?

Say, just say, like if you did have kids. I've already thought about this. What do they do now? They have to pick and they feel like they have divorced parents when they don't. No, you switch off. Yeah. We spend actual Christmas with your family one year. And then we go to mine the day after and we flip.

Well, we don't have that luxury because we are a three and a half hour plane right away. But you've coordinated the best you can. You can coordinate it or do like new years with one family or like a little bit before Christmas with one and the actual holiday every other. You know what I mean? There's ways to do it. There's ways to do it. But yeah, I mean, back to the story, our point is like eight

Christmases away from your family that you would like to see is unacceptable. And it's, it's a lack of compromise. And what we're seeing the trend here is that she's not willing to compromise. No. And it's, and you know, we do have a very diverse listenership. And that's any holiday like Hanukkah, Ramadan, Kwanzaa, anything to be away from your to be away from your family eight years in a row on an important time in your life. Yeah.

Like, no. And I honestly, I'll bring it back to it. I think it's totally fair. Like, I think you can live close to your mother-in-law and support her, but you need your fucking space. Agreed. That's going to drive your marriage apart. How the fuck are you going to have sex comfortably, loudly, enjoyably?

Yeah. Too close for comfort for me. I hope he figures it out. I hope that they find a really happy medium where like she lives at a very nearby senior living facility or whatever they call it. Yeah. And they have like family dinners once a week and they have a very healthy, like she's still a part of the family because I do feel for this woman.

Husband is going through a really terrible time and Alzheimer's, if it's getting, if he needs care, it's declining. Urgent care. Yes. It's declining pretty quickly. So she is going to be a widow in somewhat near term. And I mean, I know that sounds pessimistic, but just seeing the way that this goes. That's the process of the disease.

That's how that works. That's how that works. Cruel and unfortunate as it is. Yeah. So she's going to be on her own. So she does need the support. She does need the support, but she doesn't need to be in their marriage to get that support. No.

Top comment. They quote what he says. My wife is sympathetic, but says she's not going to pick favorites between me and her parents. And they go, if she always attends her parents' needs, even at the expense of disregarding yours, she is picking favorites. Yeah. 1,000%. And someone replies to that and goes, your spouse is meant to be your favorite.

That's the whole point of marrying them. Yeah. That's, that's so tough. And back to the point that your partner and who you choose to be with, it's a choice. And when you make that choice, you should be putting them before your origin family. Yeah. Birth family.

Yeah. Adopted family. Your, your family that fucking raised you. Like whatever that looks like to you. Yeah. The thought of my sons growing up without me inspired me to quit smoking. I talked to my doctors and then I threw away all my cigarettes, ashtrays and lighters. I started exercising instead of smoking.

Staying away from alcohol when I was first quitting was key. I kept on trying. Learned something each time. Do whatever it takes. No matter how many times it takes. We did it. So can you. For free and confidential help, call 1-800-QUIT-NOW or visit waytoquit.org developed by CDC.

Okay. Just a trigger warning on this next story, you guys. It does feature talks and discussions about losing a child and child death. Mother-in-law's neglect killed my child. Now she thinks I'll let her around my second child. Sorry, this is so long. My mother-in-law was guilty in the death of her grandchild, my daughter. She was two years old at the time and my husband and me let my mother-in-law babysit her while we

were busy with job related things. It was summertime and they were staying at in mother-in-law's house that has a pond next to it. My daughter loved water. Bath time was her favorite time of the day. They were playing at the edge of the pond and then mother-in-law remembered she had to take clothes out of the dryer and she left a two-year-old alone next to the large body of water. My daughter's childlike curiosity plus her love for water resulted in her getting into the deep part of the pond and drowning.

All because mother-in-law considered clothes in the dryer and important enough reason to leave a toddler unsupervised. Then she realized what has happened. She started to panic and call for help. Her neighbor heard her. They got into the pond and called an ambulance but it was too late. Imagine what it's like for a parent to come to the person you trusted your child with and they tell you your child is dead.

And mother-in-law was begging us not to involve the police into this. She kept repeating it was an accident and she quote doesn't know how it could have happened. Quote was only gone for a moment. Quote feels even worse than we do. Quote calling the police won't bring her back. Gaslighting. We did call the police of course and she was charged with criminal negligence and sentence to three years in prison which in my opinion was too light of a punishment.

Now recently mother-in-law was released from prison and my husband was the first person she looked for contact with. He never once visited mother-in-law while she was in prison unintentionally but she did cause the death of her child by neglecting her duties as a babysitter. Doesn't matter that she served her sentence. Neither I or my husband will ever forgive her for this. Neither has she asked for forgiveness. All she gave us were excuses and more excuses.

In the courtroom my husband told her she's not his mother anymore. That she's dead to him and that he never wants to see her face again. Our marriage was damaged too. We were depressed. We fought a lot. There were times when we were on the brink of divorce. We separated for a while. I left for another country thinking that this is it for us.

However, my husband came to look for me and we managed to save our family and continue our life together. It's so cute. Do we want looking for her? If he wanted to he would. Okay. If he wanted to he would. Yeah.

He looked for her in a different country. Yeah. We're both on the verge of tears. I'm like that sent me. Like I've already been like emotional this whole story. I couldn't bring myself to have any more children for a long time but eventually I got pregnant again and last summer we welcomed our son.

He's nine months old now. Obviously we weren't going to tell mother-in-law we're parents again but she saw us walking with a baby stroller and realized that once more she has a grandchild. So she tried to get in contact with my husband. First she approached him for not visiting her. Cried about how hard it was for her to spend all those years behind bars that she shouldn't have been in prison

because she's too old for that. How could he do this to his own mother? How could he abandon her? Then she was like but I saw you have a new baby. I'm so glad I have a grandchild again. And then she went on about is it a boy or a girl? When will she be able to see them and meet them because she wants to take care of them so much.

My husband told her immediately that she doesn't have anything. This is our child ours only. Our son doesn't have a grandmother. We'll be telling him this as he grows up and he will never ever in a million years be anywhere around her. We're 100% on the same page about this. The loss of our daughter still hurts and we're going to do the impossible to protect our son from her.

He doesn't need an irresponsible grandmother who would likely endanger his life just like she did with his sister. Mother-in-law was shocked to hear this and began to wail about us being so evil and cruel towards her that we're going to hold that against her forever even though she paid for it. And we cannot be so heartless to prevent her from seeing her grandchild. But what was she thinking?

What was she hoping for? That we're really going to let her around our baby that will ever trust her with babysitting again? Honestly, I'm not sure if I can leave my son with any babysitter. I don't trust babysitters anymore because if a grandmother can be careless enough to let a child die who knows what could an unrelated person do? So my husband told her firmly

that she'll have no access to the baby and he doesn't want to talk to her either. So now that she's out of prison, she should do something useful with her life and leave us alone. I like that. Yeah. Mother-in-law wasn't having it. That evening she came to our house

asking to see her grandchild again. We didn't let her come in obviously and Mother-in-law got mad claiming that as a grandmother she has rights to meet her grandchild. We told her that she lost all her rights to our children when she let our daughter drown. If a trust is broken, it cannot be repaired and there are some things that can just not be forgiven.

Mother-in-law told us she'll go to court and she'll demand legal permission to meet the baby. Exactly. Alexis. I'm not sure if there is such a thing but if it's true, I highly doubt she'll get it considering her criminal record. If we need to go to court and prove

she's not the type of grandmother you should let around your child, we'll do it. If she comes back again, we'll call the police. If we need to leave this country and go live somewhere else just to be away from her, we'll do it. Nothing's impossible. I'm amazed at the shamelessness of her.

She knows very well she tore apart our lives three years ago. No parent should bury their child but we had to because of her and now she comes to us as if she's the best relative ever, as if nothing happened. I first just want to point out how refreshing it is to see a couple aligned. Same page.

They're very much a united front on this and I think that's amazing because I have read about losing a child, the traumatic effects it can leave and the detriments it could be to a marriage because that is such an unforgivable pain. To see this couple, even though obviously they had a moment,

they are sticking it out. They're very aligned. They're bullish about this and I think that's great but for the unfortunate part, there's no question that this grandmother is unfit and the fact that she thinks she can go to court and get any type of rights is just laughable. Come at me, bro.

With or without the criminal charge, let's just say she didn't have that criminal charge. You're not entitled to rights. You can fight for custody if you can prove that the parents are unfit. That's clearly not the case here but on top of that, you have a criminal charge for child endangerment.

So good luck. You served a three-year sentence in prison. Yes, for being convicted, not charged of child endangerment. You were found guilty. That's on your record. You don't think they're going to factor that in when you go in there pleading for rights?

No. Parental, whatever, guardianship? Like you're automatically fucked. Yes, you have fun but even without those charges, you have absolutely no entitlement to the child. No and from what I've seen on legal Reddit, granted not a lawyer could be speaking out my ass here. I have no idea.

From what I've seen based on legal Reddit and other stories kind of similar to this where grandparents are like coming out of the woodwork, they're toxic and like need to be kept away from the children, it's really, really hard to get grandparent rights and there already needs to be like a very established connection with that grandchild

for a court to like really consider it. Yeah, I mean otherwise on what grounds are you considering that on? So this is, I mean, this is a no brainer for me. Absolutely the fuck not. No, I would not. This is an instance where I'm like, yeah fuck you, you don't get another chance.

You don't get another chance here. She fucking killed their child and there's no coming back from that. Not a chance. And the behavior has been, I don't want to say non-remorseful because it shows like there is some remorse but it's very like basically none though.

Yeah, it's coming from a place of self-interest because I feel like if you were that remorseful, I'm just thinking about myself, like at first of all, I am such a guilt ridden person. I was talking with this recently with somebody, like apparently I have like guilt written into my DNA at this point.

It's like ancestral karma. And so I have like guilt. And so. So interesting. Ancestral guilt. And so I feel guilt for like, if somebody does something and it results in a consequence

because of me, I feel an immense amount of guilt, even if it has nothing to do with me. And so in this situation, if I were the grandmother, I mean the guilt I would feel would be so absolutely unmeasurable and unbelievable that I would like to believe

just based on the way that I think, I'd be like, don't ever let me around your grandchild. I am so sorry. And I don't deserve to ever be around your grandchild ever again. Like the family should be, if anything, like you should know that you are a danger to the children at this point.

Where's the self-awareness? Yeah. The self-awareness would be like, I feel so fucking bad. I can never trust myself again with your child. I'm an idiot for that. I'll never forgive myself. I understand why you hate me.

I understand why you never want me around your child again. If you do, I would absolutely love to meet the child with your supervision, of course. But I don't blame you. And I wouldn't trust myself around a child ever again. I would have so much guilt that I wouldn't even want to watch another child,

let alone my grandchild. Yeah. And that's where it shows her disconnect from reality. Exactly. Like, I think just even right after the fact, her saying that she feels even worse than we do. Yes. That's exactly what I was getting at.

Like, they just lost their child. Yes. And you're saying you feel worse than them. And calling the police won't bring her back. Yeah. It was totally like self-serving. Gaslighty. Gaslighty.

Like, don't call the police on me. I don't want to go to jail. It won't bring her back. It's like self-preservation. I would be like here, handcuff me immediately. I fucking deserve life in prison. Yeah. Take me away.

No. And like, there was never an apology or what OP said. Basically, like, she never asked for forgiveness. And also the lack of awareness, again, to play off of that. Clearly, this couple did not want you to be a part of their son's life, their new nine-month-old son. Yeah.

So when you didn't get that invite in the mail to come meet him or you didn't get that heads up and you saw them walking, you should have taken that as a very clear, like, no response as a response. Like, they didn't reach out to you, so they clearly don't want you to be a part of his life. Exactly.

And an ounce of self-awareness would tell you that. Also, what a fucking coincidence. She just happened to see them walking. Yeah, that part kind of weirded me out. I'm like, are they from a small town because... She was probably trying to find them. Yes. I was thinking the same thing.

I'm like, that's kind of a wild coincidence. She was probably trying to find them. Yeah. Yeah. They need to stick together, stick to their guns. If they need to move to another country, do it. Because this is the type of lifetime movie network where I see this grandmother becoming unhinged

next thing you know. Trying to kidnap the kid. Yeah. Yeah. Well, especially the fact too, I'm so glad I have a grandchild again. No, you don't. You're the sole reason that the first one is gone.

Oh, my God. Yeah, that sucks. What if she tries to frame the parents as neglectful? Like, what if that's her plan? She's going to go to court because what you could do is go to court and try to deem the parents as unfit, and that you should assume guardianship of that child. But in order to do that,

you have to have like a substantive case, you know what I mean? But like this person, if they become unhinged, you don't know. She's clearly off her goddamn rocker. For sure. The comments are just amazing, full of so much support.

Yeah, right. The commenters are so good at putting their thoughts into like short. Cohesive. Yes. I mean, granted, when you write, you have the ability to be a little bit more composed than when you're just candidly speaking.

But the comments on here are just gold. Yeah, they are. So they're very, very supportive and just like, you should get a lawyer ASAP, send a cease and desist letter. Another one goes kind of like a POV grandma quote, I'd like to see my grandson judge. Hell nah. Yeah, right?

That's what, what in what world that's, this woman is so disconnected from reality. Completely disconnected from reality. Like what's disillusioned? Like she's just so, She served three years in prison and it's still. For child endangerment. Still then get knocked into her freaking head.

What? Your guilt should feel so heavy. And here, I'm not saying she shouldn't forgive herself. I think everyone should. Everyone needs to come to peace with things they've done. Yes. But the fact that she feels so entitled to this grandson. I really want to take care of my new grand baby.

Yes, it's just beyond. In what fucking world? No. The person goes exactly how much right does she think she has? A normal grandparent has very little leg to stand on with two non abusive parents in the picture. Bingo.

Let alone her. Bingo. Bingo. Yeah. A lot of people are like, get a restraining order. True. And honestly, I think it needs to go there. Yeah.

I didn't even think about the whole restraining order thing. Yeah. Because you have enough for this. Get that lady away from you. Ugh, that is a shitty note to end on. Yeah. Quite the stories for a mother-in-law episode. That's the worst one I've heard.

I just cannot even imagine. But yeah, mother-in-laws and toxic moms because they're out there and they're really tough to navigate. So one tip that I saw during my research on all of this, if you have a partner that is very enmeshed or very connected to their mom and picks their mom over you, the worst thing you can do is have them make a choice. And it's just like, they gave very logical steps

where it was like, try to set clear boundaries, don't react to the mother-in-law, all this stuff. So if you are dealing with this, I'm going to be posting lots of resources and links on the YouTube video. And so check out the description there for those. But hope you enjoyed this episode. It was kind of dark. It was pretty fucking intense.

Yeah, wow. And Alejandro is not getting any more dark episodes going forward. Thank God. Oh, God, you guys. I have been just in the hot seat. Yes, I get all the controversial topics and all the tough stories. And then you have Lauren on the other end.

He was like, I want the jaw droppers. And I'm like, you don't, though, because they get messy. They're messy. They're messy. And I just want lighthearted and funny and can't go wrong. I have a category going right now that's called wholesome. Oh, that's the category I'm looking for. Just good feeling stuff, you know?

Because this is tough. And I do think these things need to be talked about. They're important issues. Yeah, I'm not wanting to sweep things onto the rug either, but it's like. You've got to mix it up a little bit. You have to break, yeah. No, and I mean clearly a lot of the listeners

and people out there are going through this. So just know there are great resources like Reddit. The just know mother-in-law forum is a great one if you're dealing with stuff like this and raised by narcissists as well. But check those out. I also want to give a special shout out to those Patreon supporters.

You guys are really, really appreciated by us. So thank you so much. And until next time, you guys. Thank you. Bye, guys. Bye. Is that promotion just out of reach? Are you looking to change careers?

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