Two Hundred A Day - Episode 65: The Man Who Saw the Alligators

Episode Date: February 23, 2020

Nathan and Eppy talk about the second "Anthony Boy" Gagglio episode, S05E17 The Man Who Saw the Alligators. Last seen with a police bullet in his gut at the end of Season 3's To Protect and Serve, Anthony Boy is out of jail and seeking revenge on the man he blames for his problems: Jim Rockford. Jim, dealing with oral surgery and an IRS audit, doesn't know what's coming. This 90-minute episode is another compelling David Chase portrait of obsession, and we really have a lot to say both about the technique and all of the amazing details as we follow Tony's journey into darkness. We now have a second, patron-exclusive, podcast - Plus Expenses. Covering our non-Rockford media, games and life chatter, Plus Expenses is available via our Patreon at ALL levels of support. Want more Rockford Files trivia, notes and ephemera? Check out the Two Hundred a Day Rockford Files Files! Support the podcast by subscribing at patreon.com/twohundredaday. Big thanks to our Gumshoe patrons! Check them out: Richard Hatem Brian Perrera Eric Antener Bill Anderson Jim Crocker - keep an eye out for Jim selling our games east of the Mississippi, and follow him on twitter @jimlikesgames Shane Liebling's Roll For Your Party dieroller app Jay Adan's Miniature Painting And thank you to Dael Norwood, Dylan Winslow, Dave P, and Dale Church! Thanks to: fireside.fm for hosting us Audio Hijack for helping us record and capture clips from the show spoileralerts.org for the adding machine audio clip Freesound.org for other audio clips Two Hundred a Day is a podcast by game and narrative designers Nathan D. Paoletta and Epidiah Ravachol. In each episode we pick an episode of The Rockford Files, recap and review it as fans of the show, and tease out specific elements from that episode that hold lessons for writers, gamers and anyone else interested in making better narratives.

Mr. Rockford, do you know what to do if you're attacked and killed? Ask for Albert Kim See at Grand Opening of Happy Dawn School of Secret Arts. Win free lesson. Welcome to 200 A Day, the podcast where we talk about the 70s television detective show, The Rockford Files. I'm Nathan Palletta. And I'm Epidaeus Rappershaw. We have had quite a real-time gap between our last recording and this one. Yeah, out of

practice. So if you happen to listen to these episodes back to back and we made promises in the last one that we don't keep here or we think we said something and we didn't, we're sorry. Our voice has changed as we've gone through podcaster puberty. Right. But yeah, we are talking about the, I guess of the two-parter uh to protect and serve which we did uh on our previous episode a lifetime ago and uh part of our our ingenious plan uh was to do back-to-back episodes about this uh so that we could view it as a whole, as it was originally intended. These episodes themselves have quite a gap between them, right? To Protect and Serve is season three, and this is season five. Yeah, so there are about two years of real time. And I think in the episode, they say that the events of the previous episode

were like three years ago or so. So I don't know if that's literally they were looking at the production dates or if that was just kind of like yeah that's about right yeah so to protect and serve was a two-part episode that aired you know in two consecutive weeks as a uh you know continuous story um the man who saw the alligators is a 90-minute episode. So it aired in a 90-minute slot as a single episode and then was later cut down to 60 minutes for syndication. So there are two versions of this episode. I'm not sure if I've seen the 60-minute one before because the first time I saw this, I think, was when they were still streaming on Netflix many, many moons ago. Oh, right.

So I don't know. I just do not remember if that was the syndicated version or this full version. The version on the DVDs is the 90-minute version. Interesting. Maybe as we go through it, maybe we want to guess at what might have been cut out. Yeah. guess at what might have been cut out. Yeah, I felt like this

had a little different feel than normal Rockford. This felt more like a movie plot than the Rockford files normally do. I can't quantify that in any way that's helpful. I just pulled up, just real quick,

I pulled up because Rockford Files is now streaming on imdb tv which we happen to have open because that's our reference and i believe on amazon prime as well uh the version that's on this that's on imdb tv is the 60 minute version oh okay so that is just a note that if anyone is happening to you know watch watch them as we talk about them um we might have different versions we might have different versions. We might have different versions. And we did not do the real deep dive to watch both versions to see what the difference might have been. And just checking on Amazon real quick,

it is also the 60-minute version. It says it's 51 minutes runtime. So you can maybe let us know if you watch that and tell us what got cut out. Though, again, yeah, I think we can probably guess on some of the of the things yeah there's some soliloquies and there are some long conversation scenes yeah among other things i think my my kind of uh overall statement for this episode is that it's very much a character study um to me yes there is plot things happen but it's really a character study of this uh of uh anthony uh casually of the anthony boy tony etc um and kind of this portrait of obsession uh since viewing them the first time

on my you know initial watch i think this episode has been paired uh with um paired with to protect and serve not just because of the continuity of character, but with the idea of this character study of someone who has this deep obsession. And I had not remembered that in to protect and serve that character, the woman. We are old. I will admit that when we get near the end of this episode,

I'm going to ask you what happened because I cannot remember certain important details. And that was just yesterday. So Leanne Sweeney, the woman who's the like, the super fan who has a crush on Dennis and then transfers that to Chapman, et cetera. She's this character study of an obsessive person as well. And I had kind of forgotten

that that character was in that story, but maybe just in my brain, all of this was all connected because they do have the continuity of character as well. Which is all to say that those two characters, Leanne and Anthony Boy, seem of a piece to me in terms of this interest in exploring an obsessed person. Yeah, I would agree. I would even go so far as to say that in this particular episode, when it is most obviously a character study of Anthony Boy,

it shines the best. I don't want to disparage what the rest of the episode, because there's definitely some real fun uh rockford files gags and yeah uh business and all of that but the moments in which the uh my notes are sparse because i've stopped remembering to write things down and i'm just caught up in what's happening on the show uh are are the ones about anthony boy his history, his family, and the dynamics that are kind of pouring out from that. And so this is, you know, as was Protect and Serve, this is also written by David Chase. And I think a lot of the kind of review commentary on this one really makes the connection between what's in this episode and you know later soprano stuff

right like yeah it's a lot of family mob stuff yeah there's a lot of uh ethics gymnastics yeah going on like people trying to make the argument that the horrible thing that they're trying to do is the morally correct thing because family or because loyalty or because of whatever. This episode is directed by Corey Allen, who did three Rockford Files. We last saw his work in The Empty

Frame, the one with the revolutionaries. Oh, that was good. And Angel's effort to be part of high society um there's one we haven't done yet as well um so just looking at him real quick it i think we talked uh we talked about him a little bit in the empty frame i think but uh he was an actor before he was a director uh he was in the rebel without a cause uh and a bunch of tv shows including a bunch of westerns but i guess one

of his bullet points is that he directed the pilots for like 12 shows um including murder she wrote oh and uh the tng uh encounter at farpoint tng being uh rock profile slang for star trek the next generation as uh 20 a day fans will know yeah he's also the owner of a magnificent beard his beard is magnificent uh for sure and he also won an emmy for a hill street blues episode that he directed so um seems like an interesting person uh i think there's some you said this is a little more filmic than yeah some other episodes and i feel like there are some moments very much staged to do that in this episode. And I don't know. So we technically have different sets.

I have the Blu-rays and you have the DVDs. Question for you. Yeah. Did you have a preview montage? I know the question. So that should answer your question. No, no preview montage. I was actually tempted to invent a preview montage and just pretend that I had one.

You know that it ends with a car exploding. Right. Yeah. Right. We could cut a preview montage. There's plenty in this to do it. I wonder if the 60-minute episode had one. I bet they cut one for the 60-minute episode had one. I bet they cut one for the 60-minute

episode. Yeah. And then it would be delightful if there's a scene in that that was cut out of the 60-minute episode. But no, there's no preview montage, which in and of itself was intriguing.

If you want to watch the episode, what are they afraid to tell us one final note before we get into it this was the final episode that was filmed for the season oh okay it aired you know mid midway but um it seems that maybe one reason it was longer was a bit of a maybe it was a bit of a wrap because uh james Garner was not planning to do a sixth season. Yeah, that is very interesting in this light. Like just three more minutes of material. This could have been a wrap for the whole series, right?

Like, yeah, you could see them doing just like just nudging some of the plot points in certain directions to just be like, OK, now we're done. That's interesting. Obviously did not air at the end of the season. you know maybe so who knows i think is an interesting way to kind of look at why this episode is the way it is if it was like shot at the end of the production with the assumption that there was not going to be another season right not necessarily that this would be the last episode but kind of like you, you know, that's a wrap. Like after the end of this episode, it's kind of an interesting context for it. And so if for those who may have joined us more recently and don't know the history, just a quick note about that. he did all his own stunts his own driving um and he had not intended to do another season but through through the contract that his production company had with nbc with universal they were able to ask for another season and they also according to their books told james garner that the show had

never made any had not made any money despite all of the efforts that he went to to make sure that it made money um that it wasn't too expensive to shoot so between those things um he ended up agreeing to do the sixth season which then was cut short because he was so physically injured uh that like on the advice of his doctors they're like stop doing this like you can't keep doing the show which then turned into this protracted contract dispute and series of lawsuits with universal i i have since learned about like a lot of famous cases where uh production companies have done that like apparently that happened with alien uh the movie alien fox i think claimed that

it didn't make any money in an attempt to not pay the other production company. It apparently it's standard fare. Yeah. Recently in the last couple of months, there was a big story because, uh, the creators of Columbo finally reached a settlement over the same thing with universal. If I remember, right. Yeah. Same, same deal where they kept on claiming that the show never made any money, and so they weren't paying

the creators what they were owed because the show did make money. You know what show I would watch? Hollywood Accounting. Yes. Like some sort of, you know, LA forensics accountant whose whole job it is to get people paid the money they're owed for the detective

shows that they did and were ripped off. It is a slow burn. It's 20 seasons and there's no resolution until the very end. Hello, listeners. We really appreciate you being here. And we want to make sure that you know that you can become a patron over at patreon.com slash 200 a day. In addition to episode previews and access to the 200 a day Rockford Files spreadsheet, our patrons get plus expenses, a bonus podcast where we

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becoming a patron is right for you. There is no preview montage so we start the episode right at the San Quentin as we are told later our main man anthony boy gadlio is is walking out of the entrance to the prison with a quirky smile on his face and ominous music so this is all just mood setting he's coming out those of us who were watching in the third season might recognize

him yeah this is this is a um kind of a wrath of khan thing like i don't feel going into the star trek movie the wrath of khan i knew really who khan was like a villain from one episode at some point and but like holy you know now like anthony boy certainly was a memorable villain and we remember him because that we deliberately set out to do this but i doubt if watching this if i was like especially since actors get reused so often exactly i don't think i would go oh no it's him um but we do know that he's important obviously because we're starting the episode with him and we uh uh we end the scene scene with he goes and sits on this bench by a bus stop outside the prison. And there's a slow zoom in on his face as he just kind of stares into the middle distance.

And the title, The Man Who Saw the Alligators, pops up over his face. It's pretty clear who that man is. Yes. The credits continue to roll as we follow rocky's truck uh to paradise cove um and at first it just looks like it's rocky but then he gets out and goes around to the passenger side and pulls out a bag of groceries that was sitting on top of jim jim starts off he's he really takes a lot of licks in this episode um we're starting off with him he's just had oral surgery uh he's had his wisdom teeth out and through this whole uh introductory scene he's high yes he is high

on the payments and it is a delight to watch this happen drugged drunk dentist like oh dentist okay but um yeah it's uh uh it's great watching james garner uh ham it up yeah and playing this uh really amiable version of of rockford he just doesn't have a care in the world yeah Yeah. That dentist is a genius. Yeah. He's a genius. So, yeah, we get Jim settled while Rocky bustles around and answers the phone because there's a phone call from an accountant that Jim has been working with. Adriana Daniele, which is the most amazing Italian name. So just now it's like, I'm sure she was in something else. So I just checked. So this is, so Adriana is played by Sharon Acker,

who we recently saw in Rosendahl and Gilded Stern are Dead. She was the wife of the doctor with the martini gags at the tennis club or whatever. Tennis club, yeah. The rich person signifier. Yes. So a little more down, downscale herescale here, but anyway, she's great. This role is like necessary and kind of, and she's fun in it, but it's a little, like this character is a little underbaked in this story, unfortunately. I mean, we'll find out the sort of plot reason for having her around.

But the main thing is sort of like well rockford needs an accountant also he needs a romantic interest so here we go yeah and uh i think part of that was just casting her who has some chemistry with him and just saying that'll be enough we don't need to write that there was a romantic interest. We can just assume. Yeah. Well, she's helping him out with his upcoming IRS audit and needs the documents to actually look through, but is going on vacation soon.

So Jim needs to get them to her like right away. Of course, unfortunately, he is doped up. He'll call back tomorrow, but we'll see where that leads. doped up. He'll call back tomorrow, but we'll see where that leads. Dennis then arrives with the necessary exposition for those of us who have not seen the previous episode featuring Anthony boy. So he's just bringing Jim the news that Tony is out on parole.

Um, the setup for this to kind of make it make sense that Dennis is telling Jim things that he already knows is that Jim is doped up and doesn't really remember. It's fine. It's just this gets it out there. So we're all on the same page. So he went to jail after, you know, the events on the pier and Oxnard. He blames Jim for his liver damage from the police bullet that he took.

They thought he was dead, but it turns out he just had some serious damage. And he was talking in prison. And apparently Jim is the one he is focused on as the cause of his pain. Dennis is saying, you should leave town for a little bit. Take that vacation you've always wanted. The cops in New York say that this is a really bad dude. They say he has 32 kills under his belt which seems like a lot especially for like somebody who gets out in three years like

there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of effort to keep him in um but dennis says he should leave town until he can get a line on him until like he will do something that will let us put him back in jail but you should get out of get out of here before that happens um jim is saying that well guys say lots of things when they're in prison and now he's tired it's time for a snap but dennis dennis can help himself to some ice cream one of my favorite things about this scene is when dennis points out to us that Tony boy hates California, which I cannot remember how or why that naturally arises in Dennis's backstory. But it's something that the audience might like to know. But what I love about this is that that's when Rocky realizes that this man is probably mentally ill. It is not that this man is looking to kill his son,

but it's that he hates California. And how can someone hate California? Right. That is, that is ridiculous. This is one of the central conflicts of, of, of the episode.

There's man versus man. And then there's man versus California. One of the big, big five. Right. Conflicts. Yes. So we go from Jim taking a snap to tony but we're still waiting on

the bench and he is being picked up by his brother richie who has come all the way out from from brooklyn with ma even with her hip and everything um they came to pick him up and take him home i think i did not realize until maybe the next scene how important Richie was going to be. I, you know, I was actually just going to say the same thing. Like when I was watching this scene. So basically how this scene plays out is a lot of like gags about how overly mothering the mother is. And just like just how a family is all up in each other's business or whatever but to me they just when i was watching them they were kind of just playing out as gags because i

wasn't thinking this is going to be the thrust of the story yeah i wasn't thinking we were going to really see them again yeah exactly i was like oh okay we're just establishing that he's got a nice fine italian stereotypical Italian family. You know, the brother makes the comment about, like, you got to talk to her. I'm going to have to talk to her. I came all the way out here with her. I'm going to have to talk to her all the way home.

Right, yeah. He says that he's, I've been with her for two days straight, and I'm going out of my nut. Yeah. And then, like, when Anthony comes over to his mother uh he's like just what are you crying what are you crying what are you crying for and it's like well you've been in prison for three years um so it's it's clearly a family that's not uh that that has these interactions you you can feel that this is probably what what it was like in their household

growing up. You can kind of see all that. But you don't think we're getting the beginning of a character study here. That's not what went through my head. And I think that part of that is just because I had this, how we set up these two episodes. I was like, this is a revenge flick. Yeah. And it is, but it isn't.

And it is, but it isn't. Plot-wise, a couple things that Richie conveys is that Mr. Manette, if you'll remember, he's the mob boss from Brooklyn. Mr. Manette wants Tony back. He has an idea. He wants to put him in a more managerial position. He has a job for Richie. He's going to give Ma a house on Long Island. He's going to take care of everyone. He just wants everyone to come back but tony isn't sure he wants to work for

manette anymore he didn't help him out with any of the legal stuff when he got thrown in prison and he has to go to la to take care of some business and then he'll he'll be in touch uh his his ma gets him to promise that he'll drop in on their cousin who lives in L.A. and says that she knows that Tony misses her sauce. One thing I love about the scene is that it's starting to establish some pressure for him. Right. And it's not pressure pushing him towards killing Rockford. We have already been told by Dennis that he's going to try and kill Rockford. Right.

We know that's going to happen. This is some other pressure coming from another direction and i dig that in these sorts of stories like i love when an antagonist is not just driven to be the one thing you need them to be in the plot like in this case i mean it's going to become evident later but it already starts to feel like he he doesn't trust what's going on with manette and he's trying to like maybe outrun him a little bit and also what's going to happen with his younger brother like he specifically doesn't want the younger brother involved in the business uh and we know how that always turns out um there's that great line that i think the mom is like

hasn't this family had enough trouble yet and And Anthony's like, no, not enough. We need more. So I dig all the pressures being presented in this scene. Tony kind of ends up at the intersection of three vectors. And so we're kind of getting them all established. Here we cut to Mr. Manette. We get to see the man himself. He's getting his headshot taken there's a dedication for a youth center in his name coming up that he's going to be attending where we get the portrait of

the uh involved community member you know in the front uh uh ruthless crime boss in the back yeah Yeah. He is the mullet of Italian stereotypes. But he's played by Joseph Sorolla, who is a craggy-faced Italian mob actor. Yes. Extraordinaire, especially in the 70s. So he looks the part, right? You see him and you're like, oh. Right before they said his name, I was like, oh, this is Mr. Manette. Yeah. My notes are, are we in New York City?

Yeah. They specifically say it coming up, but there's like these hints to let you know that we're not in California because they keep talking about how cold it is. Well, they have an establishment shot of the Brooklyn Bridge. Oh, that's right.

Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it looks a little weird because it does not look like modern New York. Yeah. 70s New York. It does not look the same. But anyway, he gets a little weird because it does not look like modern New York. Yeah. 70s New York. It does not look the same.

But anyway, he gets a phone call from Richie. He's calling to break the news that Tony is not coming back right now. He wants to go after Rockford. And this is a big disappointment to Minette. This conversation is Richie breaking the bad news to Minette because Minette is kind of holding out all these promises, right? I'm going to give your mom a house. I'm going to give you a job. I just need you to help me get Tony back.

And I think Richie knows that this isn't going to go great for Tony. He basically, so Minette basically, in my notes, I say that he leans on Richie. He kind of uses veiled threats of taking away all those things that he's promised. Yeah. If he doesn't get what he wants. Richie mentions that he's going to try and find Syl, who he knows is still in the area. Remember Syl was his partner from,

to protect and serve. And Minette says that he wants Richie to stay in California, give him a call each night, tell him what's going on. They'll go from there. Richie does. Finally, he keeps back that Tony's going after Rockford Rockford Until you know all that pressure is put

On him and then he finally you know Says yeah he's going after this guy Rockford Minette tells his goon to go Get the chin and Murph And then we end the scene With a dramatic sigh as he looks into The camera and goes Rockford Yeah so a few things

Number one well okay The chin let's just say like exquisite. I love this feeling that Tony Boy, the mob and the IRS are all kind of converging on Rockford right at the same time. make that even better as if angel showed up but the other bit uh you had mentioned that like um richie knows that this might not work out well for anthony boy and i think that there's uh i don't think there's a moment like an aha moment for richie but i think somewhere from the beginning where he's talking to tony about uh all the things that Minette's going to do for them. To somewhere midway through the episode is where Richie. I think there's a journey that Richie's on. And it's fun to watch.

Oh, for sure. Well, that's the thing. This scene is where I was like, oh, Richie's going to be important. Yes. So, like, in this scene, to me, it's questionable whether Richie is being played, is being played because he wants to be played. He doesn't want to face what the truth is or is just being completely naive. I like that because those will converge at a tragic point in this episode. And it's well done.

I think he wants to think that everything is going to be fine yeah but he knows in his heart who manette is and how things work and he doesn't know exactly what manette wants with tony right but like he is he is apprehensive about giving manette the information he needs to find tony at the yeah at the very end of the conversation where he's like, I just need to know, and Manette won't tell him. Doesn't say anything, yeah. Yeah, that I think is like a big step towards Richie understanding what he's setting

in motion here. We go to Tony eating dinner with Syl and his family, for lack of a better term. Syl has done alright for himself. Syl has done all right for himself. Syl has done pretty okay. Syl and Tony, they're facing across the table.

There are two young children, tween age, and a blonde woman who is serving dinner. And everyone is clearly uncomfortable. You're forgetting Syl's mustache, too. And everyone is clearly uncomfortable. You're forgetting Seal's mustache, too. His mustache is... His mustache looks like it has not been trimmed since the last episode. Yes. Three years ago.

There's a bit of a gag after the table is cleared. Oh, yeah. Oh, let's see. We had ginger with the main dish. What's for dessert? Cake with pork frosting? What do you got an antagonizer for uh he would not have survived in 2019 no so yeah that's all establishing that you know still has something going on tony is making everyone uncomfortable yeah they go outside to

talk uh with some cigars and still says he's not going to go to LA. He has a good thing going on. There's a lot here. The scene is like, gives us their backstory. Right. Tells us what still has been up to and illustrates for us the magnitude of Tony's obsession. Right. Plus brings in how much Tony hates California.

One, one of the things that I'm, I'm really digging off of Tonyony in here uh that i'm i'll also state in case rocky's listening uh i disagree with uh but is he is rendering moral judgment on the culture of california right uh here's a mobster who's killed 30 some people apparently who is clearly in the wrong about everything who uh thinks that he can turn his nose up at uh ginger beef well because ginger belongs with dessert it's a gag but it's not a throwaway line that he like asks the kid about football and the kid says i'm not into competitive

athletics and that for tony is like what the hell are you raising here like this is a moral yeah you've broken the social contract right your kids don't like football this is part of this the ethical picture of tony uh that i'm enjoying because he's so wrong about so many things uh but he gets to have the confidence of someone who thinks they're right right like he gets that righteousness by turning his nose up in california a little while later that's gonna um turn into a really interesting argument that doesn't go that far right but this one i feel like the end of the argument is tony just laying out the stakes that he's not going to stop at anything because he threatens the kids, right? Yes. Yeah. So the deal is that, you know,

Syl got out early on this like work furlough program because he also, you know, got arrested at the end of that episode. That was for this woman who now he's living with. She runs an art gallery. It's a good business. He's learning a lot about art. The kids are great. Yeah. It's not even like I'm turning my life around. It's more like somehow I ended up here and this is great. Right.

You know? You gotta root for Syl here. Yeah, I'm not going around in cars killing people for mob bosses. I'm just learning about art and raising some kids who don't like football. Yep. Tony appeals to their past together.

He saved his life they were always partners and he really uh i forget what word he uses in my notes i i typed uh he really needs his help and then i actually deleted that and said he really wants his help yeah like i don't remember if he uses the word need but the way that it's acted here clearly it's important to tony that still be on his side yeah hey still this means a lot to me a whole lot so i'm gonna be blunt either you come with me or i do the kids you try you gotta come right through me you understand you want to do it you want to put it to the test after all these years that's one thing we never did so you want to try it you want to put it to the test after all these years that's one thing we never did so you want to try it well i mean my notes at that moment is just holy like no veiled threat

just yeah yeah this is this is the the uh i think the fun again false moral argument at the center of this like several people are going to be making these loyalty arguments. And this is one where he's literally threatening his, maybe not adopted, but like certainly his family. Yeah. And still uses this loyalty morality language to bring Syl around. Yeah. It's interesting.

And I'll just mark here, if we can may remember to connect back, but this point about how important it is to Tony to have a partner in this actually comes back. Yeah. Which I'm just realizing now. So that's a nice. Yeah, that's why we do this for our own edification. We go back to Jim.

Oh, the day after. um so we get a lot of good uh you know jim stumbling around moaning at rocky being mad because he's in pain which makes sense his accountant is going on vacation but she's going to a cabin she said that he can bring bring his shoeboxes up and they can have a working vacation she's willing to do that for him yeah that's great uh jim says that he can't take a break though with his irs audit he needs to scare up work because he knows he's going to be paying money. And that's when he notices a blue sedan that's been in the parking lot all morning.

So we go to the sedan and we have a couple of goons. Yeah. The cigar-smoking goon, who turns out to be Murph, and the driving goon, who turns out to be the Chin. They have a bit of dialogue to establish that they're waiting for Tony. And then just suddenly, Jim just pops up in the window. Hey, what are you guys doing?

I love how direct this is. He's still got a cheek full of cotton. Yeah. He's still recovering from the oral surgery. And we get an angle really quickly that shows that he has brought his gun. We have the shot where he's looking in the car, sort of looking across Murph at his face. And then reverse shot and we see his gun tucked in his waistband.

Yeah. And they have a bit of pretending to be friendly. Yes, as you do. As you do. And then they say they're going to leave. And then in a very Rockfordian move, Murph, who's sitting at the passenger door, hits him with the door and then comes out after him. The other goon, the Chin, gets out and he

has a gun and he's taking aim as the two of them roll around on the pavement. A bunch of people run out of a neighboring trailer like, hey, what's going on? And then he turns around and points the gun at them and they're like, oh, he has a gun and they all run away again. But this concludes with uh murph just punching jim right in the swollen side of his jaw and they

take off i winced yeah it's like oh there's television that little little actions or things that happen that i'm like oh i shouldn't have made that noise. Sorry. There's little moments of violence in television and in movies that you physically feel in some way. I confessed recently that any time somebody falls down stairs, I don't know why, but I feel it. My whole body just clenches up. I must have fallen down some stairs as a kid or something. But a lot of times when punches are thrown in the rockford files it's you know hams and steaks right like you just got these meaty things and you're just like okay yeah whatever but this one because of the whole setup because

we know that he just had the oral surgery and and how bad he's feeling like man i felt that one yeah like recoiled in horror it cuts the commercial right after that yeah it's like you don't want to watch this uh so we come back and jim's still on the ground with all those people around him and someone hands him his gun as he as rocky helps him up which i kind of thought might turn into something but i think it was just a bit of a gag uh but rocky thinks that jim should take take Dennis's advice, and Jim agrees. It's time for him to take that vacation he's always wanted. Cut to Rocky's house where Adriana is going through shoeboxes saying,

this is untenable. Jim's mad at Rocky because Rocky messed with his system. He has his filing system for putting all the receipts in one shoebox, but then Rocky started separating them out alphabetically by month, which is not helpful, because that means April is gone. So it seems like a fraught situation. But they're trying to get all the documents together so they can go to the cabin. As foretold, what could make this episode better?

Behold, Angel. Looking real scruffy. Yeah. they can go to the cabin as foretold what could make this episode better behold angel looking real scruffy yeah okay so any moment that's tense for whatever reason having angel show up is great uh the fact that there is an accountant in the room well it actually uh foreshadows a scene way later on yeah but it's just Angel can't wait to tell Jimbo about the scam that he's got cooked up, that he wants Jimbo to not participate in, but to fund in certain ways. There's this like casino night scam

at this church in Pennsylvania that these other con artists that Jim is also acquainted with are running with Angel. But Angel just wants Jim to front him the plane fare because the church can't afford to bring him out on their own dime. Yeah. And then Jim just calls him out. He's like, you're going to scam a church?

Like, what is wrong with you? And Angel replies with, okay, fine. Look, just front me the fare. And I promise you 30% return on your money. Yes. Rocky is horrifiedified as he should be jim finally says like this is uh you know i have to get all this stuff together for my irs audit and he mentions he's going to go up to this cabin to get it all sorted so they do give us a shot of of angel's face looking kind of ill when the IRS is mentioned. And then he kind of just fades.

Like the camera goes away from him. And I realized at the beginning of the next scene that we never saw him leave. Right. Because we end that scene with Adriana saying that like, this is systematic of the whole problem. Why do you keep your records at Rocky's house in the first place? Right. problem why do you keep your records at rocky's house in the first place right and jim talks about how hard it is to you know how hard it is running a business out of a trailer that you also live in and you can't deduct that by the way rocky finally remembers where those boxes are because it's a reference to a to a record that rhymes with april and it's a whole it's a whole thing a couple things

about the scene number one the our lady of the highway near the turnp it's a whole it's a whole thing a couple things about the scene number one the our lady of the highway near the turnpike is a great name for a church um it's easy to tell angel's purpose in the scene about halfway through in the beginning i i think my instinct is that angel is just here to add some new kind of pressure. But then as they start barfing more information at Angel, I realize, oh, Angel is the conduit through which whoever needs to find Jim will find him, right? Like that's sort of the purpose of Angel. He's the message board.

Yeah, because like if it wasn't Angel, it would have to be Rocky, right? Right, exactly. And nobody wants it to be Rocky right right exactly and you don't nobody wants it to be rocky yeah we already have enough endangerment in this episode i don't know bringing rocky in would really be great um no it's fun i mean angel's always fun and also angel sets up uh the the scene at the end with angel also is yeah kind of necessary for jim's storyline like this episode is about anth Boy, but Jim is doing stuff and there needs to be a resolution for him as well.

And Angel's part of that. In the beginning when I said, like if this ended up being a series finale, the extra three minutes, I think would be this storyline here. I think part of what happens here, along with what happens with Anthony Boy that leads Jim to either quit the business or, you know,

like some make some sort of or steadfastly refuse to quit the business or something like. But, you know, this could have come to a crisis point as well. If that was what your intention was, was to end the whole thing. Well, as I mentioned, we never saw Angel leave, but we do see Angel arrive at Jim's trailer where he picks the lock, rolls on in, takes a beer out of the fridge, sprays it all over himself, opening it because he's moving so quickly,

goes and sits down at Jim's desk, and calls the restaurant across the way, claiming to be Joe Rockford, Jim's dad, and orders in a dinner. Like a steak and champagne. Just have the boy wrap it up real nice and tinfoil and leave it on the front step. Put it on my tab.

Angel. So angel. All right, we get back to Tony. Tony and Syl have been driving for 12 hours because apparently Syl was living in San Francisco. So Tony is taking swigs out of a Pepo-bismol bottle i think this whole this whole scene yes we had the exposition about how he had like a liver injury and then he also mentioned in the last scene how like didn't you notice i had to get up so many times at dinner yeah he had some physical ailments related from some permanent damage right yeah and there's i think like a little bit of a a time bomb a

countdown associated with like nothing said like it's not like a fatal injury or anything like that but i think that that adds a little bit to his nothing left to lose attitude you know and this is where we get a one of our first big kind of soliloquies about how boring and terrible California is. Those brown Hills mile after mile and no people, nobody. And I want to know why you see a gas station all lit up with the fluorescence. Like, uh,

what kind of place is this? That was the San Joaquin Valley. That's all. Route five is the fastest way down here from Frisco. San Joaquin Valley, that's all. Route 5 is the fastest way down here from Frisco. San Joaquin Valley? Reminds me of pictures I've seen of hell. Yes. I don't necessarily disagree with that.

I mean, I haven't done that particular drive, but I'm sure it's a little boring. I've done some California. but I'm sure it's a little boring. I've done some California. Well, actually, my problem is that I can get car sick on really windy things. Right. So if you take the Pacific Coast Highway, that's rough. My experience of driving through California is sitting in the backseat of a car, going through that and just being like, I hate everything.

That's not exactly what he was describing here. He's had this nightmare. He says he has this nightmare and still doesn't say anything. And then he's like, what? You're not going to ask me about my nightmare? Yeah, I love that. You know, it's a illustrative little anecdote about it's after his dad died and he's watching. He's in the stands at a baseball game.

Yeah. You know, there's a baseball player that you would know at the time i suppose who he was referring to if you were a baseball fan but then he turns around and his face is a skull um you know dramatic stuff so first of all i yes i love that he's like i had a really terrible dream thanks for asking me about it like but also uh when he when he's asked about he's like i don't remember much of it. And then gives the most detailed account of a dream. But this baseball player. Okay. We're going to get weird now.

Okay. I'm ready. Early on in this episode when Jim is high, I think it's when he sits down on the couch. He says a name. Oh, yeah. Eugene Paulette. And when we were just talking about that scene earlier, I Googled it. And the best I can come up with was Gene Paulette, who is a major league infielder, according to Wikipedia.

So now I'm wondering what baseball player he's talking about. Because that name was out of nowhere, right? I think Rocky did something and he was like, what are you, Gene Paulette or something like that? I'm just wondering if Jim had a drug-induced vision of Tony's dream. Okay, you can forget me now. That's clearly not the kind of stories that they write for the Rockford Files. It certainly would be a Twin Peaks episode, though. Yeah, so this is a lot about how much tony hates california uh including that he doesn't want i think still maybe says like hey let's get

something to eat and he's like we're almost there besides i don't want to go near no more tacos and chili dogs and sandwiches with alfalfa spouts on them you You people eat garbage out here. I think it's on that line that Syl pulls over. Which I appreciate. I think Syl likes California food. I think so. He does. I think he says alfalfa spouts. There's a few moments in there where he just says the wrong word for things.

Yeah. I think that's a character trait. Yeah, it's on purpose. And I'm trying to remember if those occurred at all in the previous To Protect or Serve. I don't remember them, but he also doesn't, like, they don't have as much screen time in that episode. Yeah, yeah. Because it's not about them. Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, Syl pulls over and his deal is like, you made me do this. You're making me drive you down here and do this hit. And you don't even appreciate it. You're acting like a jerk. You're yelling me like come on man at least make it pleasant for me and then tony has his next thing which is that he now still is like all the rest i don't know where i stand with you back in new york you walk into a deli and order a sandwich you know where you stand right away the guy's giving you a hard time because he hates his job and he hates you for wanting a sandwich so he makes your life miserable. Here you walk in, it's...

Morning, sir. How are you today, sir? What would you like, sir? And they don't mean none of it. They hate you. They're just friendly, Tony. Life is different here. Friendly? It's sick! Yeah, look, this does get into a brawl and they exchange some punches there's this moment in this debate i think it's before the brawl um where uh tony's big point is that like yeah they're mobsters i don't think he says that but like but here in california you have cultists he's like sure we kill people but it's like on purpose and for a reason. And here

you have these guys with a bad haircut who just go crazy, you know, and just, you know, knock off 17 random people that they don't even know. Charlie Manson, almost invariably. I think that's what he's doing here. But like, it's great because again, it's Tony trying to play this moral high card. Well, he talks about values. Yes. They have some punches and Tony has the upper hand. And he talks about the time that he saved Syl's life. It goes into detail about a push him out of the way of this other guy who was coming after him.

But then he caught up with him later and shot him in his car where he was bragging to all his buddies. It's very specific. And he's like, and I did that for you. Right. That's what I'm talking about. Values. And so it's kind of, you know, what's he going to do? Yes.

He ends up getting back behind the wheel and we have another swig of the Pepto as they roll on down the highway. We have a quick cut where we see that Angel is making a long distance call from Jim's phone. And he is in the wrong place as tony and syl roll up outside the trailer oh angel you were doing what you were sent to this birth to do they hear the voices or they hear his voice yeah they come on in angel at first is like i told you just leave it on the step yes but then he's like oh well if you have personal business with with jim rockford i could probably help you for you know 10 15 angels just straight up asking for a bribe right yes it's not a high amount and he would give the information if he were bribed but right tony goes straight to violence like horrifying violence

horrifying violence yeah he grabs angel's head puts him in this like twisty headlock, has this line about howdy doody and how his head would spin all the way around. And then he tells Syl to get the ball peen hammer out of his pocket. And Syl with the most, oh, this again, look on his face. Yes. Pulls the ball peen hammer out of Tony's pocket. This is, I don't think it's come up in this episode but in to protect and serve they talked about the time that tony you know killed a guy with a ball peen hammer and i think we talked about how like awful that specific detail is and apparently that's

that's his signature um angel does not take much convincing he spills the whole thing about the accountant And where they went Tells them what they want to know And then Tony pulls a gun And still says that he Look, he didn't sign up for more than one hit This guy's a I think he says he's a career squirrel

Yes And that becomes a moniker that they use for him Throughout the rest of the episode Yeah, Angel says I don't know anything I can't know anything. I can't even talk. I'm mute.

Come tomorrow morning. I'll be selling sign language cards at the bus station. Oh, Angel. That talks Tony down, apparently. And of course, they walk directly through the nicely wrapped dinner and bottle of champagne that was on the step as they leave. Rockford can't even get food that he wasn't going to get. Before they go to Lake Arrowhead, they have to go see Tony's

cousin, who lives in LA, or else he'll never hear the end of it from Ma. Cousin Conchetta. So they walk up, knock, don't get a response, start to turn around, and then, of course, the door opens as they're walking away. And it turns out that it's not just Cousin Conchetta,

but Richie and ma are there as well and tony seems to be pretty surprised because he you know he told them to go home right not what he had in mind uh ma tries to get him to eat offers him asks if he wants a sandwich and i think on the word sandwich he can't take it anymore yes i don't want to hear no more about sandwiches peppers and they're eating that's all this family is is one big gigantic digestive tract it's like an obsession it's like an obsession it's like an obsession uh ma starts crying richie's like i can't i can't with this family like this happens every time he's like i'm gonna go get an aspirin because i get a headache but he

leaves and goes down to the car yes so we see him do a quick search and pull a map out of their glove box where Lego Arrowhead is circled. And there's a little note with Adriana's name next to it, so that we know for sure what they know. And we know for sure that Richie knows. By the time Tony and Syl come back out, Richie has gotten out of the car and pretends like he was just checking the mail. A comment, apparently Richie had worked for the postal service briefly and couldn't hold that job. So it's ironic that he should be so concerned about checking the mail now. The scene ends with Richie telling Tony to wait. And Tony says, what?

You know, spit it out. And then Richie can't say anything. He's just looking at him. He wants to warn his brother or somewhere deep inside he wants to warn his brother. But he doesn't know what to say. Yeah. Because he chose to see where Tony's

going. Yeah, he's snooping. He knows that the information he's going to use, he has to know the information he's going to use will come to no good. Right, yeah. Because this is on behalf of Minette, because his job now is to tell Minette what's going on with Tony. Yeah. So he's doing that, but he knows that it's not going to go well, I think, but doesn't know what to say or how to say it. Eppie, I need a quick break. I'm going to grab a taco. You tell our wonderful listeners all the

places that they can find you and your work on the information superhighway. I'll be right back. One way to find me is to go to twitter.com and search for at Epidia, E-P-I-D-I-A-H. I'm usually responsive there. Otherwise, you can go to worldswithoutmaster.com, where you can find my sword and sorcery fiction and role-playing games. And if you like role-playing games, maybe you want to check out DigAThousandHoles.com, where I publish all my other role-playing games. Oh no, I dropped my calculator. Nathan, while I go pick up a spare, why don't you tell the good folks where they can find you on the internet? In addition to this podcast, I also design and publish role-playing games, including

the Worldwide Wrestling Pro Wrestling role-playing game, among many others. You can find links to all of my games and other projects at ndpdesign.com. And of course, you can find me on twitter.com at ndpayoleta. Looks like you're back. You ready to continue the arithmetic analysis for this episode there, Eppie? I'm back. I have my DM-42 with me

and I'm ready to dig down into Rockford's books again. All right, well, I'm done with this delicious avocado taco. Well, let's get back to the show then. So we go from that drama to a drama of a different sort to the cabin at Lake Arrowhead as our local tax preparer extraordinaire. Tell us about this scene, Epi. This scene has my favorite line. What's happening here is Adriana is trying to explain to Jim that none of his tax loopholes work.

bowls work part of what's going on is that he is trying to depreciate or uh write off things that he's bought years ago that no longer have any value and which leads to my favorite line they're not going to allow that 74 75 76 and 77 well the thing's been depreciated so much there's nothing left but pure energy no mass they've evaporated as far as the irs is concerned this is they're not a running expense because you couldn't possibly still be using this you should have replaced it by now specifically she's referring to his uh answering machine yes answering tape machine or however they phrase it so again we're looking at a episode that may have been the final episode or whatever and it's just saying like you're outdated this this shouldn't work this also sets up a little bit of the there's a there's a gag going on underneath all this about a camera right which is newish and therefore can save him some money

um that uh he has lent to angel because he's oh my god i guess a creature of habit i don't know what but or or angel stole it and keeps on promising to give it back right but i think i love that line i love that like this whole setup here this This is a vaguely romantic getaway. It's a cabin up in the hills, but it's over his books. Among other things, he can't write off the Christmas gift of Scott of a case of scotch that he gave to Becker. Yes.

But we work together. And she rightfully points out that he probably doesn't want that looked into anyways, right? Like this, that is highly illegal but then he has this thing what about the other gift i gave him that was a personal gift which were long matches for his fireplace uh wonderful wonderful stuff he has a line where he says

that he feels like he's she's not letting him deduct anything uh he feels like he's getting a d on his examination or something like that. And I was like, I understand that feeling. Yeah. It's a bad system. Yeah. And it was worse probably in the 70s. Like that's the other thing. Yeah. There's probably no standard deduction. Yeah. And so you want to get credit for legitimate business expenses, you know, meant for operating your business. Not to turn this into a tax lecture but somebody like jim is going to be in a situation where there are things that don't look like that somebody like us anybody else who buys a game that's for entertainment yeah but also we make games it's important for us to understand what the state of the art is and to its professional development

and like you can joke about that being a wiggle room but that's not really wiggle room you can't design in a vacuum uh same here later on we'll have this joke about jim having an extravagant vacation right but he's setting himself up in a role for a job yeah uh but then when you have to justify that all to some third party right yeah you get that feeling fortunately before it gets too stressful or too romantic angel covered in bandages yeah there's a moment where it's like all right let's not you know let's get some dinner enough of this for today and i think this is the only like romantic moment where it's like, okay, let's have some dinner. Right.

And then she asked, what flavor of milkshake do you want? And he immediately gets mad again because he's sick of milkshakes. He just wants a pork chop or fried chicken or chicken fried steak. Yes. And then Angel arrives. Yeah. So we know he's been beat up because of the bandage around his head. He says that he was only in the trailer because he was returning Jim's camera.

Yes. And that they worked him over for hours. And Jim's like, okay, how many minutes until you squeal? Jim knows exactly how Angel operates. Yeah. But Angel is legitimately trying to help because he's trying to warn Jim that Tony and Syl know where he is. I think this is like one of the few times where we see a demonstration of the actual friendship between Jim and Angel. There is every incentive for Angel just to pretend that he doesn't know what's going to happen.

Right. But, you know, maybe if there was a phone, he would have just called, but there's no phone in the cabin. So he made the effort, even though he knows he's putting himself in harm's way. And I think Jim realizes that kind of at the end of the scene, after yelling at him for all the ways in which he is a failure. Yes. We then go to this really interesting scene where it's almost entirely or entirely, I

don't remember exactly this upshot from the car so sill and tony are in the car yeah and the camera is kind of like in the door panel of tony's side so it's upshot on the two of them as they have this conversation uh i feel like this is probably a scene that would have just been cut out entirely of the 60 minute version again we're watching a movie about Tony Boy, which just happens to have Rockford in it. It's not a vital scene, but it's certainly an interesting scene. It's got some good humor in it, right? Tony half reads Death of a Salesman and has some philosophies built off of it. I think if you were to cut things down to a 60 minute,

you know, to a television, a regular time slot, this would definitely be an easy one to remove without losing the tension or the drama that already exists in the episode. The point here is, is about loyalty, right?

So he has this anecdote about how he, he started reading death of a salesman while he was in prison because it took place in Brooklyn. He got to the part where he worked for a guy for 40 years. Then he went in to talk to him and he's going to get fired. You work for a guy for 40 years and he fires you. What kind of life is that? And so he's like, that's kind of like me and Manette.

That's the parallel he's drawing. He knows that Manette doesn't have anything in mind for him. And so he doesn't owe Manette anything. No loyalty. What happened in the end i never finished it but willie's got these two sons see biff and happy so i figure he takes his two sons down there pops howard and takes over the company not how death of a salesman ends i do like do like that he's got his own fanfic ending, though. At the cabin, Jim, Angel, and Adriana are just about to leave when they see the car approaching. Angel is the canary in the coal mine here, right?

He's the one who's finely tuned preservation instincts. He hears something and he just sits bold right and he's like, Jimmy! It's great. Things happen pretty quick right we're getting some like more exciting action drama here everyone kind of knows what's going on there's no mystery here like everyone knows who's who's there because they because sue and tony see angel's car so they know that he's the squirrels here um jim tells them to go to the back of the house ask ask if there's a gun anywhere. There is a gun or there's a rifle in the hall closet that one of the partners uses to shoot groundhogs.

And Jim goes and gets it and turns out it's a pellet gun, but he does try to use it as a bluff to be like, Hey, Hey Tony, your beef was with me. We can talk about this. My friends have nothing to do with it. Let them go.

But of course, Anthony boy does not go for it. He has a line where he's like, I can pick you and your buddy off like cans, which I think is such a delightful line because that's exactly what you would be shooting with a pellet gun. And so he says that he'll bluff them in front long enough for Adriana and Angel to leave out the back. And as part of that, he does take a shot and it grazes Tony's cheek. It's a good shot. It's a good shot. And grazes tony's cheek it's a good shot it's a good shot and it's like oh it's a pellet gun like if he'd missed maybe it would be different even though it doesn't sound like a rifle either right but like because he hit him it's like oh that's

not a threat to me angel scrammed even before jim told them to get out the back so he's already down the hill at this boat and trying to get the motor started. So this has already brought Syl's attention, who has a shotgun. So he comes around the side of the house. Adrano runs back inside. Syl goes after Angel. The business with the boat is great because he never unties the boat to begin with. He can't start the engine. Then he pulls out the oar and he tries to row a boat that's still tied to

the dock it's very angel panic fleeing here yeah um this ends with angel jumping out of the boat after he can't get anywhere uh sill chases him does take a shot at him where angel like pretends that it hit him and just like falls over or his feet slip out from under him tony shoots because there's this moment where sill looks at the barrel of his own gun as if surprised when he heard the sound like wait i didn't fire this which is more for the audience right because a shotgun you would know if that went off or yeah yeah i actually wound and watched this over because i was like i couldn't quite make out what happened and i think what happened was tony took a shot i don't know if he took a shot at angel or just took a shot angel acted like he was shot yeah pretended that he was dead and there was just

this moment where still is like what is happening like why is this guy behaving this way and then just picks him up he just like pokes him and then angel like opens one eye and he's like come come on squirrel but yeah i definitely like that no angel wasn't shot and i think might have gotten away with it if if sill had taken a shot sure right but he didn't anyways well they now have angel so they use him as a hostage to get Jim to come out. And we have this very dramatic, dark moment where Jim, you know, hugs Adriana, tells her it's going to be okay. And then Syl and Tony bring in Angel and they're all in the house, in the cabin. And Syl's like, all right, let's just do it and get out of here. But Tony doesn't want to do it.

Bing, bang, boom. He has he's had a lot, a lot of time to think about this. And he asked for his hammer and then still says that he left it in the trailer still ends up being the accidental hero here yeah whether because he intentionally left it behind because he knew something like this would happen right or whether he's lying and you know knows you know how this could go so tony then says all right we're you know everyone take a seat he's going to see what kind of party favors are in this cabin. And he's going to talk to Rockford about old times and about the future.

Very dramatic, very menacing, but this like point of violence is pushed off into the future. And there's another like malapropism. I think he says you're a milestone instead of a milestone. Yeah, he says you're a milestone around my neck. Yeah. So with, with that tension vibrating there, I think he says you're a milestone instead of a milestone. Yeah, he says you're a milestone around my neck. Yeah. Yeah. So with that tension vibrating there, we then cut to Minette in the back of a car pulling up to Cousin Conchita's house. Yes.

And this is, oh boy, this is a hell of a scene. This is a hell of a scene. So, okay, before we go into the scene. No, okay, before we go into the scene. No, no, let's go into the scene. Okay. Bullet points about the scene. Yeah. First, Manette talks to Richie.

So Manette's come out from Brooklyn. Right. To see some things personally. First, he talks to Richie and he says that it's important to end this thing now and then everyone can get on with their lives. And Richie's like, I can't sell out my brother. Yeah. Like he realizes what's happening. And Manette's like, I can't sell out my brother. Yeah. Like he realizes what's happening. And Minette's like, let me make this clear. Tony has knowledge about me that could hurt me. Our bonds are weak. Like whatever bonds we had, the two of us, they're weak now. I can't

let him hurt me with his knowledge. Richie, I think we see has decided on a way to walk this line between his brother and him and his mother. And he says that he can't sell out Tony unless his mother can see that it's for the best. Right. I do have information I could tell you, but I'm not going to, unless my mom knows what's happening, but I'm not going to tell her. Yeah. So Minette's a big smoothie with Ma,

turns down her offer of coffee cake on account of his colon. And he has this line, which I just thought was so funny, where he says, I got a young doctor. You went to Brandeis. That was very funny to me just because I went to Brandeis. So it stood out. And also at this time, that's still a pretty new school. So because it only actually started in the 50s. So kind of saying, like, I have this young smart jewish doctor yeah yeah uh go judges is that that

the sports mascot yeah i mean i knew that brandeis judges i was go dice the teams are the judges um so now we have this conversation between minette and ma more of a soliloquy on minette's side minette's job here is to convince a mom into accepting her son's execution yes it's a thing to behold like i think they did it well the mom has played for gags up until this point she's like melodramatic before this scene um and it's just all like isn't mom such a hassle with her bad hip and her constant trying to feed us? Right. This scene, I think she does.

I really enjoy watching her dance around. It's almost as if she wants this to happen, but she doesn't think she's allowed to want it to happen. So it's this everyone coming to a place where they can agree that it's not anyone's fault but tony's right yes uh she's i think there's a lot of like things that are kind of implied by manette's conversation but something that's been established already is that tony is in with the mob but the rest of his family isn't his brother and his mom are not and like he doesn't want them to know like he's always like kind of kept a separation there and so minette offering them things tony knows means that they're he's trying to bring them in into the business if you will but it's all because minette was like partners or friends with mr uh gaglia uh so you know his tony's dad and Richie's dad. So he, oh boy.

So he talks about how much he respected the father and what a shame it was when he got like shot on the parkway by those goons or whatever. And I felt like there was a little edge there of like, is this implying that he, Manette hit him? Yeah. There's nothing there. It was just a thought that I had kind of in the way that he said it. But then he took Anthony in. he acted like a father to him but at what point is the boy more important than the family the wife and the other son of the man that i respected so much uh ma says that he never could be controlled he was always wild uh and she has this line where she says why couldn't

i have a son like other mothers right and it's a little bit of like, how much is he convincing her? And how much is he giving her the room to acknowledge that it's going to happen whether she wants it or not? Right. But it'll be easier for her if she buys in to the fact that it will happen, right? It'll be easier for her, like, both because she's dealing with an actual mobster and that could be terrifying. Like you said, he's going to do it. So why upset him?

But also there's that blood money aspect of it. She's going to get that place in Maspeth, right? Yeah. He's offering her all these things, security, protection. Yeah. So there's that. There's the life for the family is going to be better. You won't be around all that violence.

And all that violence feels like coded racism. Oh, yeah. Because they talk about how their neighborhood in Brooklyn was changing all around them. Yeah. So there's that. And then the sort of he's a loose cannon bit. Somebody's going to have to deal with him. Right.

Why don't you let me take that burden on? Yeah. I really, really like this. Not because I mean, somebody's going to have to deal with him. Right. Uh, why don't you let me take that burden on? Yeah. I, I really, really like this. Not because, I mean, it's horrible,

but I like it because Manette, now we, we see, and we're like, Oh, this is why he's the boss. Yeah. Yeah,

absolutely. He just talked a mom into allowing her son's ex, like he, okay, this guy is really dangerous. He has a, what I refer to as a hell of a monologue towards the end about standing at the rubicon yes and how there comes a point in everyone's life where you have to make a painful decision but through this pain comes the future yes yeah she uh she says that she does she just doesn't know what to do about her son

i want to help. It's the way Frank would want it. I don't know what to do about this son of mine. You want to leave it in my hands yes marianucci was like a son to me too let me work it out with her and she kind of has tears in her eyes and she nods and that's that's the permission slash acknowledgement, right? And at no point does he say, I'm going to kill your son, right?

Like, we know what he's talking about. And I'm pretty sure she knows what he's talking about. Yeah. And part of making it happen is him not saying it out loud and say, let me deal with it. Yeah. That's good. Let me work it out with him. We have a shot of Richie's face where he looks pretty rough

as he's been watching this whole conversation. You get the feeling that Richie I don't want to say it's a gambit on Richie's part because Richie says I'm not going to do it unless Mom's on board so that he doesn't have to be blamed for it by Mom. Right.

Mom's the one who agreed to it. But also he has to be thinking maybe he won't convince mom and that's our way out exactly yeah right and uh i think that during this is certainly when it just is completely evident to richie which way this is going to go down and then the last shot of the scene is Ma sitting alone in the chair. Yeah. Like after everyone else left, just sitting with that, I don't know, decision? Knowledge? Yeah. So here's my question. This is a great scene.

I think it's a bit the theme of the entire episode. And it gets us from one standoff to another. It gets everything moving the way it has to go. But I wonder if this was one of the ones that they would have cut, right? It's a chunk of time. And you can just assume that Richie told Minette and Minette's guys took Richie.

I mean, this is the stupidest kind of speculation because the answer is there. We could just go look. I suspect that it's probably cut up. That's probably the beginning of the scene and the end of the scene and a bunch of the conversation in the middle is probably cut out. Yeah. If it's not in the streaming version,

then I'm, I'm sorry, everyone you're missing a good David Chase mob dialogue. If nothing else. And then to put the button on this outside, he puts Richie in the car and says like, you know, Hey,

you're going to help these guys take care of it. And then sends them off by themselves. And he's like, wait a second. And then Manette takes a cab and he's, he's out. He knew what he had to do. He's not going to witness this in person.

He doesn't need to be there. But I think that's also like a little demonstration of why he's the boss. Right. Cause now Richie's in too deep. Yeah. And he didn't even realize what, what he was getting himself in for. like a little demonstration of why he's the boss right because now richie's in too deep yeah and he didn't even realize uh what what he was getting himself in for um and i started noticing here i think most of that scene didn't have any score um and then i started noticing at this point that

there was just there was no music through the next scene so it's all very yeah dramatic uh no Very dramatic. No underscore. Just watching the things happen. We have Tony and Rockford in the cabin. Anthony Boy talks about all the fantasies he had about killing Jim. How he planned to do it after he was done with the hammer. He's going to tie him up to a rock at the seashore and watch the tide come in. I do love that Jim's attitude towards all this is like come on yeah well jim as we know as long as he's talking he's not getting killed right like keep him talking as long as possible uh he tells tony that once he's done with all this he's not

gonna feel any better you know what is your deal with? And that releases just this spew of spite from Tony. Is this with football players, milk drinkers? Yes. I was only peripherally involved in that thing up in Oxnard. The police shot you. I didn't. So what is it? What is it?

What is it? I'll tell you what it is. Guys like you, you're all over the place, eating your stinking cheeseburgers, clogging up the streets on your stupid lousy sunday drives football players milk drinkers funny boys shut up guys like you rockford and guys like me we can't live here together you make this planet a toilet for me to live in and so he's he's focused all of his anger, his pain, his, I don't know, all the tragedies of his life. He's made Rockford the avatar of all these things that he hates about the world and other people who are in it. And I think that's very clear.

And it's also very like, I wouldn't say that it's played for laughs, but it is. It has a little bit of, I don't know, over the topness to it. Yeah. Yeah. He's, he's, um. Tony has attached so much to this moment and it just seems ridiculous to the impartial audience. Not impartial, but the audience observing this all coming out of him. And I think what I like about it, too too and about the whole treatment of tony through

this whole thing and we'll see this a little bit more is that like at no point am i rooting for him but i am getting more of an understanding of why he's doing what he's doing yeah there's a sympathy like you said not one where you root for him not where you want him to to succeed but definitely you're thinking okay this guy had some cards stacked against him and he's in a he's in a bad situation he's not making it any better right but he's certainly in a bad situation that isn't entirely of his construction and that kind of mirrors again the the character from protect and serve where like yeah we kind of saw more and more of her problems and we can understand why she's acting the way she is even while being like you are making things where we kind of saw more and more of her problems.

And we can understand why she's acting the way she is even while being like, you are making things very worse. Yes, you need to stop doing this. Syl hears a car outside and looks out and they recognize Murph in the chin and they know that Manette's guys have come for them. There's a great Rockford line here. Casil is like, maybe they're coming to tell you about the new job. And Rockford's like, I don't think they came here to give you the keys to the executive washroom.

Oh, no, I think they came up the mountains to hunt. Yeah. And this is like the real trick of this episode, like how seamless this is, I think. Yeah. All of a sudden, everyone in the cabin is united against the guys outside the cabin. Yes. So Tony and Murph start yelling back and forth. Again, a little bit of false friendliness.

Tony actually takes the first shot because as he says, they're out to blow us away. There's another wonderful, because Syl was like, why'd you do that? And he's like, because I thought I'd hit them, stupid. They hear Richie yelling and we just see tony just deflate yeah yeah oh my god my brother's out here uh richie richie says that they just want to talk it's about the family and tony i think we just see on his face that tony realizes what must have happened um he tells richie to come in alone and there's this pause just this pregnant pause and his eyes start getting weepy and he's like holding back tears in this moment

sorry you can't come in Richie remember I used to tell you about the alligators under the bed and scare you they were really there kid I know I saw them. Yeah. Tidal. Syl tries to get to Tony and he crosses in front of a window and gets shot.

There's a great Rockford moment here, though, right? Yes. There's this great framing here where Rockford and Adriana and Angel kind of are like trying to help Syl. And they're in the foreground in like the middle of the cabin. And Tony is, so he's a tall guy, right? He's all hunched over kind of with his knees drawn up underneath the window

with his gun. And he's in the background. So he's like foreshortened to be even, I don't know if that's the right way to use that, but he's, he's even like smaller. Yeah. Uh,

since he's in the background of the shot and that's where this dialogue happens, where he's acting like he's in charge but the camera is showing us the dynamic where rockford is taking control because he actually can operate under these circumstances yeah uh tony says he lived like a dog so his brother could go to college and he has all these things all these things he's done to keep the family out of this kind of business and now it's all coming home toost. I don't know if this is the moment you're thinking of, but Rockford finally says like, you know, Hey, we need to make a plan. It's like,

we don't need a plan. I can hold them off. Yeah, sure. Until dark. And then they can just come in wherever they want. We need to make a plan. You need a partner. You can't do things by yourself. Like I know guys like you, you need someone else. So Jim and Angel then start trying to make a plan while Tony just just yells at them in the background. And they come up with this idea where they need a fireball to be a distraction. Yes. Well, more than a distraction, there's fire towers. They don't have a phone.

That's how they're going to get the authorities up on the hill. Yes. The music then kicks back in as Jim climbs up onto the roof with a with a molotov cocktail um tony takes a couple shots to cover him and jim just lobs this directly into of course angel's car which is this like open top convertible now leading up to this moment angel has been 100 behind a molotov cocktail he likes the plan yeah this plan the plan varies a couple times in nuance uh and each time angel's just yeah whatever just set something on fire let's uh and then he gets up onto the top of the roof and i look over and i'm just in my notes angel's car

and then goes over then we get i think Angel has named his car Lucille. I think so. Because Angel suddenly realizes what the plan means, what he's sacrificing for this cause. So, yeah, the car explodes and then starts smoking under the cover of the smoke. They sneak out of the cabin. Murph and the Chin say that they can't make the job. The fire department is going to be there in a few minutes. It's time to get out of here.

So they get back in their car and pull away before Richie can get there. And they just leave Richie. Yes. So our action music then ends as everyone comes around the side of the cabin. And then we have this kind of standoff where Tony's like, hold it. He still has his gun. He can still take out Rockford. He doesn't care about the cops you know this is it yeah but then richie kind of comes down towards them and now this is where tony's caught in his his uh pressures right he wants to kill rockford

rockford's right there he's been betrayed by his family richie's right there and he you know can't make a decision um he wants to see Richie's face. I know what Ma thinks. Richie says that Minette hypnotized them, which is a fair. And Tony replies like, that's what happens with snakes. They get hypnotized. Which is both another weird malapropism, but

also exactly perfect. Yeah, exactly. And Jim says here that Tony can't get everything he wants. Richie turns to run and tony just has this reaction and shoots him in the leg it's hard to convey without seeing the actor's face but we see that he realizes he's been betrayed and now what is he gonna do uh it's not like oh my god i can't believe he shot his brother it's like is he gonna shoot his brother because he's building up to it like we see that through the conversation um that gives jim the opportunity

to jump him they struggle jim gets the gets the upper hand uh leaves a few punches and then you know he's all adrenaline up right like you know is that all you had like come on like i thought you wanted to take me out my notes are mean jim yeah he's mean and tony's on the ground and in my notes i say that he's clearly out of go juice yeah he's out he can't take another thing he just stares up at jim and jim ends the scene by looking at him and saying bad boy yeah cut to calculator yes my favorite moment of the show uh I don't know this calculator. I mean, it's more of an adding machine than a calculator, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it came out in 79, I think. So my main thing with this, and I know that our audience is on the edge of their seats to hear this. I don't know the calculator. I was just kind of curious if this calculator would present as high tech to the audience or not, right? Because I felt like that would be like, now we have the IRS agent who can afford the top of the line.

But I honestly did not know what that calculator was. So I don't know. It looks, you know, appropriate for the time period. It doesn't seem particularly cutting edge to me, but it might have been. We have ended Anthony Boy's story. Yeah. The movie is over. This is the post-credit sequence where we find out what happens to Jim. Yes. The IRS accountant here is disallowing even more deductions than Adriana did. Generally, the ethical thing to do for the tax preparer to be present during an audit. Yeah. And then Jim explains that, well, she's had a very traumatic week. In fact, we were taken hostage in a cabin.

There was a guy trying to kill me. He actually physically assaulted me. He goes through all these phrases kind of in a way of being like, you're not going to believe this, but this is what happened. And the IRS agent just no-sells all of it. Yeah. He's unimpressed. And then continues asking about the camera that Angel still has not returned.

Yes. And then this is, and then he asks about this item for the like week and a half rental of a limousine. You see, I needed these things to establish my credibility for my cover as a major overseas investor. Mr. Rockford, if you'll forgive my saying so,

it seems like what we're talking about here is a confidence game. I mean, the Internal Revenue Service is not going to allow deductions based on con games or any other marginal activity. Mr. Seurat, I don't think you fully get the hang of the nature of my work. You see, these are things that private investigators do. They may not be pleasant and they may not fit any niche that the IRS has, but they are really legitimate business expenses, totally above board. All right.

I'll allow that expense. Speaking of legit businesses. Here comes Angel. So Angel shows up with these two other con men that he had mentioned earlier about this whole game with the church and everything. And so we get a little bit of callback

to that. Jim drops at the, well I can't really talk now. I have an IRS audit going on, but that apparently is not enough to clear them out. And so he gives the accountant, tells him to use the phone in his other room if he's going to make his phone calls a little more privately. So that sets up the ending gag here. Oh, God. Angel runs down the con. It didn't work in Pennsylvania because they were too suspicious or something,

but they have a line on this new place in L.A. Ran a post-game analysis. And he uses all this lingo and, like, we're going to run this kind of game and all these highly suspicious terms, and all we need is someone with a strong, honest face like you. Yes. I love how Jim lights up at that. He's like, aw, shucks.

Yeah, he's obviously got a whole lot of things going on. He's got an IRS audit going on. The last thing he needs is Angel in his trailer just shouting criminal activity at him. But the moment when Angel just mentions that, but of course we need someone who plays to Jim's strengths. He does have this moment of, well, yeah, I mean,

you're right. You need me. And so of course the IRS agent has finished his calls and comes back out in the main room. Just as all of this conversation peaks, we see him overhearing the whole thing in the background and then jim notices him and we end our episode on a freeze fame of jim's shrug and guilty smile yep what you gotta do what you gotta do so that is the man who saw the alligators

okay so i i quite enjoyed that episode uh i think that that now that we've gone through the whole thing, I'm trying to assess it as the possible ending of the whole series. Which, again, it's not necessarily that it was planned to be the last episode of the series, but it was shot at the end of the production cycle. Yeah, it could very well have been the last episode shot. So there's certain things about it that, to me, I would have had more Rocky and more Dennis, right? Yeah. But otherwise, like, it was a really good episode. I'm glad we did it in the combination that we did so that we had Tony Boy fresh in our brains and Syl. Let's not forget Syl.

I think Syl is kind of, like, low-key just as interesting. I mean, he doesn't have as much like personality that we discover but we do see him kind of falling back into the routine of his with his partner he is that support guy yeah uh he's there to do the job and since he said he would he's doing his best but he also has a hard line of like this is what i promised i would do for you right like i didn't promise to just go you you know, to shoot Angel after he squealed. Like that wasn't part of the deal. So he has, he's still trying to hold a line of his own, even while he's fulfilling the

like loyalty that he has to, uh, to Tony. I have a genuine affection for Syl at the end of this episode. It makes me want to go back and look at the previous episode to see if the groundwork for that was accidentally laid you know what i mean like i think so he definitely was more reluctant in that episode as well he's the more passive partner yeah he's the one who has to keep rescuing tony right because tony keeps on doing going off half-cocked yeah he gets caught up in the horses i remember that oh yes so there's a little bit of like sill is the professional uh it's not that tony was not the professional it's just that like sill was the more level-headed i

think yeah um and obviously didn't have a problem with la right. But it was good to see him on the other side of that, kind of laid down some roots, obviously enjoying his life. It's low key, a one last job for him. Yeah. And he's certainly going back to prison now. Yeah.

I don't think there's a warm future for Syl after this, if he survived at all. Like, did anyone die in this episode? Did Syl die? Syl didn't. No't no they they make a point of of we see him talk after he gets shot and they're like supporting him richie doesn't he gets shot in the leg yeah although and i just in case any of our listeners want to experiment with that uh getting shot in the leg is a real easy way to die there's a major artery there uh people die from leg wounds all the time don't shoot people in the leg is a real easy way to die there's a major artery there uh people die

from leg wounds all the time don't shoot people in the legs uh i bring that up because that's a standard trope of tv yeah i'll hurt them with this gun and put them out of commission and it's like no and of course seeing minette i think minette that whole scene if this had happened earlier in the Rockford Files, like if this was, if Protect and Serve was first season and this was third season, I would have loved to have seen Manette return. Manette again, yeah. Yeah. The actor comes back, but not in the same role. What do you think?

I think it's great. I was a little, not apprehensive, but this is one that I've kind of intentionally not watched since the first time I think it's great. I was a little, not apprehensive, but this is one that I've kind of intentionally not watched since the first time I saw it because I didn't want to be too familiar with it before watching it for the show again because I remembered it as being such a striking character portrait. that it did not disappoint uh in that way um there's something about the willingness to take a popular show with a popular actor and be like he's going to be the side character yeah this one he's the b-plot yeah he's going to be the b-plot and we're going to explore this really damaged person through the lens of the storytelling we do on this show. And I think that's very, you know, it's very David Chase. You know, it has Rockford-ness, right?

It doesn't not feel like a Rockford Files episode. Right, right. But yeah, I think it's a very, it's, you know, it's compelling. You want to see where this is going. It's a solid piece of TV, right? Like you could just watch this without having watched any of the Rockford files. I mean, they give you the exposition to tell you what the specific event that put Tony in jail is and why he hates Rockford. Like, why Rockford was involved with that.

Dennis has three lines about it. And the rest of it is you're just watching the movie, right? Yeah. It's really good. I think, like I said, the only thing that kind of struck me on the rewatch is being a little underserved is um adriana yeah that character plot wise makes sense i don't know how much more she really needed to be in the episode like line wise but there's just something about something about that character where she's pretty unmemorable um as opposed to many of the side characters in in the show as we like like so much yeah other than that i don't know it's really good do you have any thoughts about the two or the three episodes together as like a unit uh well i'm

glad we did it that way uh certainly i think that um tony boy is memorable in the way that a lot of side Rockford Files characters are which means that he doesn't stand out against that backdrop so it was good to have him fresh in our mind when we moved on to this next one all you needed to know from the previous

episode aside from the fact that Rockford was vaguely involved there's a few things number one uh tony and sill work together tony hates la uh or california uh especially their pizza yeah yeah those threads are all plant are all in protect and serve yeah and they're just like followed through on here yeah the main thing is that like uh just how obsessive because he does get obsessive about Rockford in Protect and Serve too. Yeah. Well, because Rockford kicks him in the knee. Like I think it's like it starts with that, right? Like he has that plate in his knee or whatever. Yeah.

Rockford kicks him in the knee and it's this incredible amount of pain. And from then on, he just like hates Rockford. Not to relitigate that, but I loved that scene because it's such a great way to get out of what was inevitable in that situation. Like without having Rockford just being a prize fighter or anything like that. He does the desperate move and it just, you know, happens to hit him in the surgery. And Tony Boy being who he is, is like, get me to a doctor now. I will come back and deal with this guy. I just don't want to deal with this pain right now. Yeah. I kind of expected that some,

there might be a callback to that. Like with Jim kicking him in the knee again at some point. Yeah. Maybe a little bit of a missed opportunity there. Does he get him in the liver? He's he might punch him in the liver. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. There's something very coherent about this obsession that just seems to rise out of being in pain, which is kind of abstract and, you know, unpleasant, obviously. Yeah. But then once he focuses the cause of that onto Jim, then every single other thing that's bad that happens to him also comes from Jim. Right. Like, it's this really unhealthy, obviously, you know, obsessive behavior that, again, we see develop and we see explained through this episode. And it makes sense.

And I see how this character got to where he is. But at no point do I feel empathy. I can feel sympathetic in some points because I can see why what he does, you know, what motivates what he does. But there is no empathy, right? I do not feel for him. I'm not on his side. And I think that's a trick that may not trick.

I think that's hard to do in tv it's a good goal but it's also a good technique to keep you invested in what's happening yeah because it's not like a shades of gray thing where it's like oh he has like noble aspirations but he goes about it the wrong way or like he's a villain who believes who believes that he's right in a world that's wrong and it's like he does believe that he's right and he believes the world is wrong but the thing that he thinks he's right about is itself morally indefensible yeah and like you see that in manette as well like and the way everybody in that part of his life is uh angling to absolve themselves of the responsibilities of anything that's happening, right? Like, this is on you, this is on him, this is on this. Because he, like, at the end,

his speech, when Richie's there, he lays it on his mother, too, I think. Because, yeah, I'm trying to remember the line, but it was something like, we had fear with our milk, right? Like, this is what we grew up with and um yeah that's a whole mess of people who are all doing bad things and it's always someone else's fault but they're all doing bad things to each other so to some extent there is someone else's fault there yeah it's uh good stuff it is it is uh quality quality television i say someone should do a podcast about this show i think there is enough humor in it to keep it from being a hard watch. It's not a hard watch at all, but it is not really a romp. Right. Like it is a little more like be ready for some serious tone, for some threats of violence,

you know, some stuff that feels pretty real, but it is also funny and it kind of starts and ends, it bookends it with Jim's difficulties in his life. If you cut it down to Jim's stuff, it's a romp. It's a comedic romp, right? Like where he's taken hostage somewhere near the end. And then he gets to throw a Molotov cocktail. Yes. And angels around whenever there's trouble.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks for agreeing to do this little cycle. I think it was. Yeah, this was fun. Interesting. Good stuff.

Glad we got to do the deep dive on obsessive David Chase characters. Agreed. And so maybe we'll find something a little more rompy for our next couple episodes. We'll see. That sounds right up my alley. All right. Well, thank you all so much for listening. We really appreciate it. And of course, we will be back next time to talk about another episode of the

Rockford files. When, when, when, when, when.