Two In The Think Tank - 53 - "ANDY'S RAFFLE THING TBC"

Episode Date: November 14, 2016

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Hello and welcome to Two in the Think Tank, the show where we try and come up with five sketch ideas. I'm Andy and sitting opposite me. Yeah, exact opposite on this circle. On the other side, coming to you from the other side of the table that we're sitting at is Alistair. Well, you'd heard me before, so it would have been no surprise that I was going to be here. heard me before so it would have been no surprise that I was going to be here. Where do you think

is the most surprising location in which to turn around and see someone standing right behind you? Okay, what about mountaintop? Mountaintop is very good. Excellent answer. If you've just climbed Mount Everest solo

maybe in the off-season. It makes it even more unlikely. Turn around Mount Everest solo. Yeah. Maybe in the off-season. Oh, I see that. It makes it even more unlikely. Turn around, and I reckon in that situation, it would be more surprising to see someone you already know. You know, a lot of the times, like, you know, a stranger is by definition strange.

Yeah. But in that situation, a close acquaintance right behind you on Mount Everest, that would be very strange indeed. It would be seeing a strangest. Strangest, dangest. Yeah. But then again, the mountain climbing community might actually be quite small. Close-knit. Yeah. And you've probably been spending quite a bit of time at base camp

yes and so you've got to know everybody who's on the mountain in a way you know everyone yeah you're likely to come across especially the the solo mount everest hiking community yeah yeah if you can't have a solo community i guess the hermits? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe the solo Mount Everest community is just a Facebook group that they all go on and antagonize each other, try and destroy one another's spirits. Oh, yeah. Because... So none of them will go on an expedition with them? Well, I think if you're climbing Mount Everest by yourself, you probably are in it for the glory.

And there's only so much glory to go around when it comes to those kinds of achievements. Yeah, I don't know if there's any glory left in it. Yeah? Yeah, I think it's like... You think Mount Everest is wrung dry of glory? Yeah, it's like... I've written this idea down ages ago,

which I haven't been able to find a place to use it, but it feels like the real Everest... Well, that's what the podcast is for, Alistair. I'm glad you brought it here. The real Everest for people who climb Everest is trying to come up with a unique way of challenging themselves. Yes. You know? It seems like they've just kind of...

They go, oh, yeah, tallest mountain, you know, that's what everybody does. So I'll just go and do that. Come on. Come up with something new. Because, I mean, once you're doing it these days, I mean, obviously, it's a personal challenge still. And physically, it's a challenge. But, like, the path has been all, like, paved out. Like, you know, there are Sherpas that do it as a, if it's somebody's day job, it can't be that big a personal challenge. Oh, my God.

that do it as a... If it's somebody's day job, it can't be that big a personal challenge. Oh, my God. Although, didn't you say, or somebody I was talking to about Mount Everest and he said that Tenzing Norgay, who went up Mount Everest with Hillary,

his son became a Sherpa. Okay. And even he... And that is like a big thing for him. He's only been up there like 15 times or something. To the top? Yeah.

I say only. Yeah. I mean... He's only been up there like 15 times or something. To the top? Yeah. I say only. Yeah. He's only done it. He may have gone up to different parts numerous times. That's a very good point. Yeah, I'd say he's up and down, skipping between the camps. Yeah, because I think... On the rig.

I don't know how often you get a good opening. Actually going to the top is probably... Also a bit pointless after a while. What would be sort of maybe impressive at this stage would be to climb almost all the way to the top and then not stop just a foot short of Mount Everest because that really is the Mount Everest of self-control. Oh, absolutely.

It would be very challenging to go really close to the top and then not go up because you don't need that yeah because you've conquered the ego yeah which is the so much better what what a what a frosty peak that is uh and then imagine how much you would win over the other people on your expedition you'd be like yeah i don't need to go up to the top. I mean, it's a huge ego boost. I've got a lot of other stuff going on. I'm actually very secure in myself. Yeah, I'm writing a song at the moment. I'm learning the ukulele.

And that's what he does. I'm learning the dulcimer. Yeah, that's what he does sort of 15 meters from the top. Like while they're all up there getting photos and putting a flag in and shit like that he just changes his mind he says nah this isn't my thing i'm gonna stop for me actually i kind of been wanting to work on some of these cords i'll see you down there see you down he just gets out of toboggan starts riding down um and he's and as he as he rides he yells i'm free! Because he is. He's truly free of vanity. In a way, Sir Edmund Hillary, he conquered Everest, but he was a victim of...

What's the opposite of conquer? He was defeated by his thirst for Everest. Yeah. You know? So, in a way... I mean, it would have even an even bigger achievement back then because he would have he would have been like giving up on the possibility of being the first to reach the top that's true unfortunately he was too weak to not make it to the top but he

also gave up on his opportunity to give up on the opportunity to make it to the top you know he he he could have he failed to fail he failed to not climb everest in a way that is much more significant than all the people who have failed to not climb everest since then wait are you saying that if he had not going for the bigger achievement yes is not making it all the way to the top, he was kind of the bigger man? No, well, I was trying to say he was the lesser man. Oh, but no, when you put it like that, he does sound good, doesn't he? I don't need to not make it to the top. I don't need to be the bigger man.

I'm happy to accept that i'm a man with an ego oh god that's good okay i'm gonna start writing it down being so so hillary and tenzing both refused to say who's you know or at least for a long time i think eventually one of them might have said it but who actually set foot first on the top of everest like in you know it was very noble of them that in interviews afterwards people would always say well who actually put their foot there first and they would say well you know we did at the same time or something you know to say it's not we yeah we both did it what they actually, neither of them did it?

How do we know? How do we know that they actually did it? Is there a photo? Did they write their initials or something? They pissed on the snow. It's like a Tenzing. Suns of Good Expeditions came up and sampled the DNA. Is there DNA in piss?

There must be. I'm sure you can get some out of it. There's got to be a bit. It's acidic, so it probably wears away at the inside of your main vein. Yeah, right. And discards some shedded cells on the ground there. But maybe, look, actually, I don't know if this would be the case, but maybe the perfect way to prove is that you actually just take a big shit on top of everest and you leave it there and so then over time like you know people can always

go back and test who was there who had been there yeah yeah maybe just a tuft of hair a big shit a big shit you're gonna and so yeah and then through the ages they'll just be you know more shit i mean a lot of people and and as a result, Everest will get higher. And what that really means is that over time, it will continue to be... Become a bigger challenge. A bigger achievement, especially if it's covered in shit. Especially the last 15 meters of Everest, you were climbing over people's frozen shit. Then I'd be like, ah, it's an achievement again.

Well done to you. Well done. But then... And actually, in that case, it would make it less of an achievement to not climb Everest. You know? Yeah. Because it really is that last little bit that's the real work. That's right, yeah.

Even if it's the last metre. Because then it's really a psychological battle, rather than just being a guy who's climbing stairs. And also a hygiene battle. Oh, yeah. But I think there's less bacteria in the really cold and stuff. I think there's less chance you can get infections and stuff. Oh, that must be a relief. Yeah.

I know my dog used to eat his frozen shits. Yeah? Yeah, in the backyard. I think because they're mostly flavorless at the time you know when you put like a frozen raspberry right sure sure sure you don't get it so it's easier i mean if you let it melt in your mouth then it becomes but dogs don't do that i don't know if dogs do if they want to savor it our dog eats a lot of shit off the road and stuff yeah right but i've never seen her eat her own shit. And I think...

Do you think that's to, like, remove other animals' scents? Do you think they're actually like, I'm gonna... I don't know, this is my territory. You think you won by shitting here? Again, we see, Mr. Jones, that there is nothing you can possess

which I cannot take away. It might have been Tenzing's shit that she's been eating around the place. Maybe Tenzing's been... Tenzing, you reckon I got a couple... Tenzing down in Brunswick West. Yeah. Oh, Andy, don't reveal where you live, you know.

Nah, it's a big suburb. Nah, you're not going to find me. You're down by the sewer. I am. I am quite close to the ditch. The ditch, yeah. The big ditch. I took my son there the other day. You took your son to the ditch?

Went behind a fence that was blocking the way. You trespassed with your son? Yeah, I trespassed with my son. Wow. But he's not of, you know, arrestable age because he's 14 months almost. What is the age beyond which you can be arrested? you know, arrestable age, because he's 14 months almost. What is the age beyond which you can be arrested? Because you can be a juvenile.

Oh, you think they could have put him in a juvenile detention centre? Oh, you could go to juvie. Well, there's juvenile and then there's like... He was mostly carried a lot of the way. Right, so he's probably in a way kidnapped. Yeah. He has a lot of kidnaps. He does. I was thinking about that the other day,

that a kidnap is actually a terrible crime. But a catnap is just a nice rest. Look, I didn't think about it for very long. No, but that is interesting, because what happens if your cat gets taken by a man? What is that called? Is that a cat napping? I think it might be...

Once again, I have nothing. Well, it's not a once again thing. No, but it's a crime. It's just a crime, Alice. This is an appalling crime. It's just a shocking indictment on the state of... You can't even leave your bloody kids in the backyard because people are trespassing with it.

Or your cats in the backyard. People are trespassing with their kids and taking their kids. To taking their kids into your backyard and stealing your cats. To take the cats, yeah. I mean, that's endangering their kids. That's like me trespassing with my son. It feels weird to be a person who has a son. It doesn't really suit me heaps, but it's been very good.

You've had a pet in the past. You had a dog growing up. I had a dog called Nindathana. Really? Yeah. Is that a spiritual name of some kind? I believe it was the name of a property. Ah. Yeah. And so I think it was the name of a property. Ah.

Yeah. And so I think they grew peaches there. Yes. Maybe dripstone peaches. I said... I think they were the size of your head. Hey, did your parents grow these? No. These are my ancestors.

Ah. My great-grandfather. Did you say dropstone peaches? Dripstone. Dripstone peaches. Yeah. The size of your head? I think so.

That's from the way that people have described it to me. Not the size of a human head. A human head. An adult human's head. A peach. Like a small pumpkin. How do I not know about...

Do they taste like a peach? From the sounds of it, they sounded like they tasted like a peach and that they were good. I mean... This was their livelihood back in those days. I don't know what happened to them. I don't know if there's any of this species left anymore.

Dripstone peaches. Yeah. Well, my grandfather did open an arboretum down in that area. An arboretum? Yeah. That's a fun word. Yeah, so... An arboretum is in that area. An arboretum? Yeah. That's a fun word. Yeah, so... An arboretum is a...

something with trees. Yeah, it's like a tree area. Museum? Tree museum. Tree area. It's like an... It's an unsuccessful orchard. No, no, no.

It's a successful... Arboretum. Arboretum, yeah. So it's just to come and... People come and look at the trees? Or is it a nursery? Yes, it's like a tree museum. Yeah, but like it's outside, so there's People come and look at the trees? Or is it a nursery? Yes, it's like a tree museum. Yeah, but like it's outside, so there's no building, I don't think.

There might be a fence. Yeah. But it's like, you know, like a garden. What's the gardens that people make? Botanical gardens. Botanical, yeah. It's like that, but with just trees. Wow.

My grandfather used to collect seeds. I'm getting really deep into boring stuff now, it feels, but... That's fine. Yeah, yeah. He collected seeds. What do you think of those people who collect seeds with the idea that after the apocalypse we're going to need to replant

everything? Do you know about that? Yeah. I think Glenn Beck used to advertise on his show in america that you like that you would get a package sent to you which has a whole lot of like heirloom seed varieties of all these you know tomatoes and and grapefruit and tripstone peaches it's gonna be like there's gonna be an unbelievable if if that happens like you're underground yes and then like everything is wiped out then you come out with your box of seeds it's gonna be i mean it's gonna be devastating to biodiversity because there's like what do you got like six types of

seeds look no it's gonna be devastating to you having to wait until you get your first crop oh yeah that's going to be crazy. I mean, but then, like... And also, you're planting them in a wasteland. I know. That has always been crazy to me, is how long it takes to grow food. Yeah.

Where you're like, okay, I'm hungry. What are we going to do? We got to grow our own food. What's it going to take we gotta we gotta grow our own food what's it gonna take ah three months but also you've got you've got you've got a little packet of seeds there right you can plant those and wait for them to grow and then eat your tomatoes i'm betting you eat those seeds i like how like yeah it look i mean it'd be nice you You just have, like, a trail mix. Yeah.

I'm just going to put all my eggs in one basket. What really is it? Just a... Think of it as Scroggins. Yeah. Think of it as a bag of Scroggins. Oh. But in the movie Into the Wild,

the boy dies because he ends up eating his potato seeds, and I think they're not edible. Is that what happened? I think so. That's why he dies. He was pretty hungry. I thought he just had some kind of berry off a bush or something that wasn't cool. He shouldn't have eaten it.

It was an uncool bush. He died of... It not being chill. He died of kind of hysteria. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's uncool, man. I had a thought about coolness. Yes.

Do you think... I had a thought about coolness as well. You do yours. Okay. And I'll be over here being cool until you're ready for me to do mine. I can't exactly... Like, I don't know. I can't remember the thought exactly.

Okay. But do you think that coolness... That's pretty cool. But do you think coolness is kind of like where it originates? Is from being in a very kind of horrible area. Yes. Right? Where to show emotion was something that could get you beaten up.

Right. And so the coolness basically becomes this kind of like the toughness that you put out as a protective device so that you aren't hurt. So like in the wire, kind of tough neighborhoods and things like that. Yep. Right? And so in a way, it's just a defense mechanism. But then people see it and they go, but then you see it outside of that situation. You just see a guy on stage who's like, I'm unbothered.

Yeah. And you go like, oh, look's like, I'm unbothered. And you go like, oh, look at that guy not being bothered by regular society. But that's because just in comparison to the kind of regular life that he was leading, the threats of violence, you know, it's actually, in a way, it's what it is, is cowardice. Well, okay. So what has happened is this guy has been in an awful situation. He's been in prison or something like that, right? And he's been probably traumatized, probably brutalized. Yeah, or he's done this in order to avoid those things.

Sure, sure, sure. Either way, as a result of imminent brutalization or actual brutalization, he's come away sort of a little bit shut off from the world. And you're saying that is like the little reward. His sort of nature restoring the balance is like, oh, now you're cool. Now you're cool, yeah. Or you're dead inside, but hey, you're cool.

Well, maybe on the inside he's still alive. You're welcome. But he's had to make himself look dead. But then it also kind of comes across as cool. But really, it's fear of showing who you are out of fear of being beaten up. That, what you just said, is pretty much my thought about coolness.

Really? Is that, like, I am... And I've noticed that I've just become aware of it, really, like, a lot in the wake of the US election, of being like, I would love to be able to express or try to articulate my feelings about political and social issues. And I'd like to be able to post like a heartfelt message on Facebook or Twitter about how I feel about things. Yeah. But the thing that stops me is like,

fuck, this is so uncool. It's pretty... It is so uncool. And I want to like get away from that. I want to, you know, not have that feeling. Yeah. But also, I don't want to be a guy who posts about his feelings all the time

because that's not cool. Yeah. I think maybe this is why those things bother me is because i judge them sometimes and then i go well i'm not going to post it because then people like me will judge it totally totally yeah yeah i i i hate the idea of me being the kind of person who posts that stuff but i also hate the idea of me being the kind of person who never says anything of value because he's just protecting his ego. Yeah, you're right.

You're right. We're just like Edmund Hillary. Yeah. Slaves to the ego. Okay, now, is there a sketch in any of this? Oh, I thought that there was something funny about the idea of coming out from underground, right? You've got your seeds. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. from underground, right? You've got your seeds. Yep. Oh, yeah. And, you know, everything's been destroyed and you've got to decide about whether or not you plant them and wait for them to grow or you just eat them, right?

And maybe it's like, what is it? Are there two groups of people? One who's got like a bomb shelter where they've got a whole lot of canned food, right? Yeah. And then another person who's gone down there with a box of seeds right and the person with the box of seeds comes out and is like you guys are so short-sighted okay you're gonna eat that and then you're gonna have

nothing i've got seeds all right i'm gonna plant this and i'm gonna have food forever and then he ends up eating the seeds because he's so hungry he can't wait for wait for it to grow or it's two groups with seeds yes and then one starts planting them and then the other guy goes oh that looks like so much work and he just eats the seeds and then the other people like you're so stupid you're eating your seeds that's you can't have any of our food when it grows yeah it's like whatever like, like that, and he eats them. And then he finds this big store of food somewhere down the road while he's just walking around eating seeds. And he's like a can factory, like an old can factory.

This is just how you plan to survive after the apocalypse, isn't it, Alistair? Like just around behind a tree. Yeah. Just this big pallet of cans. And then another pallet of can openers. What? But all the can openers are in cans. Oh, no.

Oh, no, but they're in those plastic sealed containers. You can't get it to anywhere. But luckily there's a pallet of box cutters. Oh, that's worked out. It's pretty good. That's all very well. I don't know if your payoff is quite there, Alistair. What if it's just like they plant all their seeds, right?

He starts eating his seeds. Then they get really hungry and their seeds are all in the ground so they can't eat them. And they come over and ask if they can have some of his seeds. Is that a punchline? It's not quite, is it? And then he goes, yeah.

And then they try and they go, oh, it's a bit bland. Or he goes, no. And then they go into the ground and they start going through the ground trying to get individual seeds out. Surely you could probably just eat dirt. It is tragic. ground and they start going through the ground trying to get individual seeds out. Surely there must be like, surely you could probably just eat dirt.

It is tragic. Yeah, I often think about this, actually. About eating dirt? About eating dirt. And you must be able to get something out of it. It's organic matter. And like grass? Can we get anything? You can't tell me we don't get anything from eating grass.

We must be able to eat grass. If we get something from eating spinach. Make a little salad. It's not that different. Yeah. What would you, like, if you had just, like, leaves and... Right, if I've only just got no foods. Yeah. Right, no traditional, like, food foods.

No edible, what is traditionally considered an edible food. I've just got the contents of my garden. Is that the question? What do I eat? Yeah, sure. Okay, like you got, yeah, you got whatever's just on your lawn.

I'm probably going to start by eating flowers because for some reason I feel like they're going to be, like roses I think would be quite nice to eat. Oh, rose water seems lovely.

Rose water's lovely. You could make rose water. I mean, if you, like this is, I keep thinking like, um. Because that's my problem. My water's a little boring. There's nothing to eat and also this water's very boring. Well, this you, like, this is, I keep thinking, like... Because that's my problem. My water's a little boring.

There's nothing to eat, and also this water's very boring. Well, this is my first, this is what I've been thinking about while you've been talking. Is if you had just grass and shit like that. This is what the podcast should be called. This is what I've been thinking about while you've been talking. Because that is true. That is what I do so much of the time. It's just you al's just saying some stuff and then i'm like yeah yeah yeah okay so how about this yeah i'm glad you're done it's not really a conversation it's just two monologues

getting in the way of each other but occasionally they add to each other yeah all right here's what i think right so you've got all this grass you're this grass. There seems to be a fair bit of grass. You can probably eat it, but you first collect it into a bunch. You realize you've made a salad. Then you try it and you go, okay, it's fine, but it could use some dressing.

It could use something a little bit acidic. Would you piss on your salad? It's like a little... It's kind of... The body's balsamic. Is that what you're thinking? The body's like at least white wine vinegar. Apple cider, maybe?

Yeah, I think so. I think apple cider has some... Would I piss on my salad? Yeah, would you piss on your salad to make it better? I mean... Okay. What about... That's not my first port of call, right?

If I found out I can survive on grass, and I've been eating grass salads for a month, and there's no other garnish or flavouring in sight... There's nothing. I might piss on a salad. Just one salad? Just to see. Yeah. Just to see. But I also feel like grass isn piss on a salad. Just one salad? Just to see. But I also feel like grass

isn't a premium. So if I have a bite of that salad and I'm not into it, I chuck it away. I'm going to go get just some different grass. Okay, right. But if you were just running out of grass and you really had to savour each blade. I want to try and make the most of my last bowl of grass. I'm going to roll the dice

and piss on it. I think you couldn't throw away your salad no matter what. Yeah, no, that's true. You'd have to just eat it. I mean, this is a thing that I, you know, growing up on a small farm, would often do, just pluck a long piece of grass because you get those long ones that are sort of like maybe got a bit of seed on the end or something like that.

And it's got that soft end, you know, nice soft end. You could bite that. I would do that quite often. That's kind of sweet. Yeah, I never knew what people... It's very edible. Like when people put those things in their mouth. Like, you know, because you do that when you're a kid.

You mimic what you've seen cowboys do or whatever, putting that thing in their mouth, right? Chewing on a piece of corn. Well, like a cob? No, no, no. Oh, right? Chewing on a piece of corn. Like a cob? No, no, no. Oh, sorry, like a, you know, corn. Straw.

Like a piece of straw. Sorry, not corn. Yeah, yeah, that's okay. Chewing on a piece of corn, that's, you know, like cowboys. Like cowboys. Like cowboys do. Just, you know, like munging into a cob. Like a cowboy. I wonder, you know, does it work well to eat corn while you're riding a horse?

Like, on the cob? Yeah, on the cob. Like, you know, not a bowl of, like, you know, like... Chowder. Yeah, you've taken it off the... It's getting crazy. All right. So, but what are they doing when they're putting that grass in their mouth? I don't know. What are they getting out of it? So you're saying that there's a soft bit that is a bit sweet?

Yeah, but that's a green blade of grass. They're always chewing a dry bit of straw in there. It feels like it's a joke that people would make about farmers, that they're eating straw or something. And then someone's just like, well, let's just make them do that in an American TV show and then that's just become the...

That's what you do. Could it be a blade of wheat? Could be wheat, but I mean wheat, you don't eat the blade. You eat the seed. You know what? I don't think I know anything about wheat. You eat the seed, Alistair. Wheat is a little seed from the wheat grass.

Okay, right, but it is a grass, right? It's a grass with its seeds. It's a grass, yeah. It wears its seeds on its tip. On its tip up there, on the tip. This is something I thought of yesterday. You know like when you cross on the road and you're sort of trying to time it right with the cars coming and things like that?

Or sometimes an unexpected car comes. A lot of people, I think maybe you might be one of those people, they'll just keep a steady pace, right? You won't really change your pace. You'll just be like... I am. You'll be pretty confident. You're like, they won't hit me.

But Alistair... They might want to hit me. I've noticed that you're a fan of the scamper. You will scamper on a hair trigger like that Yeah, I will jog across Pretty much, sometimes even if there are no cars Yeah And I think it's because I'm not afraid to be a coward

Oh, that's good Yeah I think it's like I'll wear my cowardice on my sleeve Unless there's like, you know Someone will hurt me for being a coward Then I'll mask my cowardice on my sleeve. Unless there's like, you know, someone will hurt me for being a coward. Then I'll mask it. With bravery.

Yeah, you know. But I think, you know, you've got to not be afraid to just be who you really are. It's a beautiful message. It's a pity that it's coming from such a coward and I can't respect it. I think the age of the coward is coming. It's amazing that in the

I think like First and Second World Wars did they have conscription in the Second World War? Was that only the first? I think so. But you could be a conscientious objector in the First World War but only if you

had a certain religion. Like if you were a Quaker or something like that, and you say, on religious grounds, I cannot fight. But if you were just a coward or lazy or disinclined or busy, you had something else on, you could go to prison for not wanting to do it. Wow. If you had something else on?

Yeah. You're busy. You could be a conscientious objector. That's okay. But if you're an unconscientious objector... So just like a busy objector? Just a busy, otherwise occupied... I think Trump might be one of those guys. Trump got out of Vietnam

War call-up because he had foot spurs, something in his foot. He had like ankle, heel spurs, I think. Oh, that's good. A little bone growth thing that made it... Well, that was what his doctor wrote on his... I think a friend has got that.

But I mean, he would be great at that. Like, just tell me, just write it down. Trump would be? Yeah. Yeah. Just whatever it takes. Just get it. Absolutely. I read an article that was all about the history of his draft dodging. He has a history of draft dodging.

Yes. I mean, draft dodging sounds like a perfectly fine thing to do around the home. Nobody likes a draft. Absolutely. So people who use those snakes that go on... Oh, the draft excluder? Yeah. That's a draft dodger. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Dirty draft dodger. So, wait. I can't remember. Where were we before? We were talking about conscientious objection and busy objection. Oh, yeah. I think maybe I was thinking about... Okay.

But if you're a coward, right? Yes. It's a big if, Alistair. I'm going to try and imagine it. Okay, so wait, the idea, I guess, of being brave is that if you're brave, you go and like you know, you go and challenge whatever the threat is and then you'll, hopefully you'll

win and then you'll survive and you'll be like, you know, you'll be rewarded for that but then if you're a coward you just see a threat and you just get out of there and then you survive the same outcome right it's just you don't need other people's praise as much yeah um do you think that maybe like everyone feels fear to the same, but then just some people overcome it. Like, you know, there must be a certain amount of that, right? Like, maybe, I guess there are some people who don't feel any fear.

Probably. Probably have some sort of a brain tumour, which for a lot of people would be a very scary thing to hear, but not for them, thank God. No, for them, they're lucky. A tumour. They took the news really with a lot of calmness, a lot of poise. I must say, you're taking this very well. Thank you for making this easy for me as your doctor. Yeah, me, the news that you experienced no fear due to your brain tumor.

Is there something in that, some sort of a sketch in a doctor Having to deliver The news that Somebody is Incapable of fear Or maybe not fear But like You're incapable of

You have an operable tumor And you're incapable of Being upset I'm so sorry about this. That's fine. Don't bother yourself with it. Yeah, well, all right. That was a short sketch.

That was a whole joke, yeah. I mean, where else would that person's life go? I mean, he doesn't have any ups and downs. Like, I guess it's like, how do you... Can you make a story about somebody who doesn't really feel any challenges? Does the hero's journey require somebody to struggle? I think it does. I think that's the hero's journey, isn't it?

I haven't read the, whatever the book is, story by Robert Ludlum or whatever. No, I think the hero's journey comes from the big man there. What's his name? God. No, no, the other one. Oh, Luke Skywalker. Yeah, well, no, he wrote about that.

The hero with a thousand faces? Yeah. Who wrote that? That's what I was trying to reference when I said Robert... What's his name? Yeah, what's his name? I don't know what he was called. Yeah, I can't remember. Anyway, it's in there. But yeah, but what if, is there a person how could you struggle if you didn't feel pain? Yeah, right.

What about somebody who's just numb? Because that sounds like the part where they would overcome the fear or overcome something, you know. But what if their struggle was wanting to feel? Well, is that the Wizard of Oz? Is that the Tin Man, if I only had a heart? Is that sort of what his struggle was? The thing was, though, that he was actually a really sensitive... He was very passionate, he seemed.

Very passionate and sensitive. I mean, look how much he wanted to have a heart. There you go. There seems to be a lacking of... I mean, how could you put somebody who doesn't feel anything into a situation in which they would need to get something? Well, I think that is the problem, right?

Because we have to empathize with this person in some way for them to be. Don't we? I can't think of a story in which we follow and relate and care about a hero who doesn't feel anything. What if he's like a spoilt rich kid? Oh yeah, no, I'm relating to this guy. I'm feeling empathy and I would like to see him succeed in his quest. Remember the guy, him and his mom, were like trying to get off on some charge by

saying that... He had affluenza? Yeah, affluenza. He'd killed some people in a hit and run or something like that and they were saying well he shouldn't go to prison he's by means of like mental impairment because of his

affluenza, he's rich and has had a really easy life and... He won't be able to handle going to prison. Not even that. He just doesn't really understand the consequences of his actions. Right? Like, he's never really been...

Man, that was a real long shot they've taken there. It's a hail Mary. Do you think that the lawyer came up with that one? I don't know. They might have come up with it themselves. Well, I mean, that's interesting because, you know, there's only probably a limited number of defenses that a lawyer can do.

There's only certain, you know, angles on which you can defend your client, right? And so you've got to try new things occasionally, especially in those risky situations. It's like medicine. We don't have an exact cure for this, but if you're happy to be a test case, we're going to try out an experimental treatment, okay? I mean, you've clearly done this.

You clearly did this on purpose. You clearly wanted to kill these people and things like that so we're gonna there's a chance this could work yeah it's got a one percent chance right and if we can do it that's all you want this like like this is a lawyer who who wanted to like he was looking and hoping to get a like a lot of very rich clients yeah right and so he's like this is the it's catered to rich people. Oh my God, that's true, isn't it? If he had successfully got that guy off on that claim,

he would have been minting it. Like, no troubles from here on in. He had the billionaire market cornered. That's quite good. I think there's a sketch in that somehow. Yeah. So you think... Yeah.

Can we reference the exact case? I don't know if we can. Just legal reasons? Well, I think just because people died in an accident, I think it would be a bit grim. Yeah. But you know what? We could not mention those. Oh be a bit grim. Yeah. But you know what? We could not mention those.

Oh, that's true. We just refer to it as the happening. Yeah, that's right. Your guilt in the happening has been established by many eyewitnesses. I'm going to start writing this thing down. I know it's not quite there. No, no, no, that's okay.

So I think we can make it a hypothetical scenario in which the lawyer comes in and just lists the litany of evidence against this guy, makes it really clear how guilty he is, and then says, okay, well, we don't have many options. And then says, okay, well, we don't have many options. But we could give this a go. And if it works, it'll be great for you and it'll be amazing for me. It's going to be particularly good for me. I mean, obviously, it's going to be great for you that you got to experience the joy of killing a man. And then get off scot-free. Scot-free with no consequence.

Obviously your name has been tarnished somewhat, and the fact that this has made the news, because this is a very public case at the moment. And believe me, after I attempt this particular line of defence, you are not going to be a popular man. No, But... It is sort of a scorched earth policy as far as defense goes.

But, you know, you can probably go to a place where there's mostly people like you, and you know, like, it'll just be, it'll turn into just a interesting dinner sort of story. And if this turns out to be successful, as I say, there's going to be a lot more people like you. Mm-hmm.

Oh, yeah. I'm going to be living pretty sweet. I mean, I will. You'll obviously be riddled with guilt. Unless you have that affluenza thing, for real. I mean, it does seem like very rich people are, in some way way less sensitive to human emotion. Do you think that's possible? Do you think that really, really rich people are...

It switches off some part of your empathy, your ability to connect to other people's feelings and sufferings? Yeah, I do think so. The reality of it. I think you don't need to be nice to people as sufferings. Yeah, I do think so. The reality of it. I think you don't need to be nice to people as much because you don't need it for survival. And you are used to people doing things for you. And that's how you come to regard other people as people who serve your needs. And other people would become a threat to what you've got.

Yeah, yeah. They're the only people who can really ruin it. And so in that sense, could you say that a lack of empathy is like a symptom of, or it's like a side effect of being rich? Yeah, I would say that rich people are victims. Yeah, like they have a mental illness brought on by substance abuse, and that substance is money. Is money. Look, I think, Andy, you would make a great lawyer.

You know, I think that a lot. But I think that despite their lack of empathy for people i think they're still not allowed to to kill people uh well i felt like i was onto something there no no it was good though because i think look i think that we should try the affluenza defense again maybe this just this lawyer wasn't good enough maybe he needed a whole team of lawyers yeah yeah maybe he just needed to be paid more do you think being in a lot of law like that is just like just trying to come up with sketch ideas sorry i just had an idea yeah is that like as someone who's like in a situation where they needed a legal defense team right they

they have quite a bit of money and they can afford to get one really really good lawyer right or they can get like a hundred terrible lawyers and they go with a hundred terrible lawyers i think that's really fun you just have some scenes in which they're all in the room together, all coming in. Your Honor, my client! Did you say, Your Honor, I'm the client? Because that is the kind of thing that a hundred terrible lawyers would say. Well, maybe as well as, he has a hundred and one lawyers

because he's also representing himself. Just to add to the team, and they all speak exactly in unison but all terribly yeah they all make they go um um

no wait a second oh I forgot my briefcase looking through the briefcase they're in here somewhere are they all looking through the one briefcase it's all perfectly choreographed they've all got their own briefcase. And you just like all the clicks happen at the same time.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I like that a lot. I don't know why. I don't know why this person would choose to have the hundred terrible lawyers. Maybe they have just decided that there's strength in numbers

or it's like some kind of... I mean, I guess the theory would be that one really good lawyer could still make a mistake. But if you have a hundred terrible lawyers, maybe they'll sort of like... Through groupthink. Groupthink and like organic structures be more, be stronger.

They might form some kind of superorganism. Yeah. It's greater than the sum of the parts. And maybe if they did all start standing on each other sort of like... Piling up. Like are they like that group of ants that all connect together and form like a boat? Have you seen that one where they form a boat? Is that real or have you just seen that in the movie The Ant-Man?

No, no, no. That was real. Because I've seen them form a bridge. There's a type of ants that they don't even have a nest. They just go and climb up onto like like inside a cave and and they just hold on to the wall yeah and then they just kind of form a nest like and it's just it looks like it just looks horrifying it's just like a big droopy like just drooping weirdly weird structure that moves that It looks like an upside down

glacier made of wire. A live wire. This is going back to our guy from last week who's just really good at describing animals. Can't draw them for shit. He's a poet. He's a poet.

He's got a gift of the gab. Gift of the gab. I wish I had the gift of the gab. Oh, man. You know how often I think about wishing that I have the gift

of the gab? I think about all the time this is what I'm constantly contemplating. I'm going... Every time I pause. That's all I'm thinking about.

To be honest, I must think about it over ten times a day. All I want to do is start, like, recording podcasts by myself. Oh, yeah. No, look, believe me, Alistair, you're not the only one who's thought that, all right?

I think about it because I think that it will make my brain work faster and be able to... Because this is the problem, is that when I'm talking to you, which is great, Andy, I love it. Thank you, Alistair. I love it, and if anything...

I like it too. It makes me better. It makes me seem better than I am because I'm teamed up with somebody that's better than i am in a way we're like two ants clinging together to form the a structure yeah like an upside down glacier living live wire um anyway and then and i and i have this theory that if i just was to speak for an hour or two a day of just pure speaking, then my brain would start getting more used to that and then I would become a better talker and it would make me better at everything that I want to achieve in my life.

But you can't do it. Well, I just don't have the organization. You really need a second person to make it happen. Well, I need to somehow spend an hour a day learning to become better at organizing things, and then that's two hours of my day that I've lost. That there is not a mind hack that we can do that will just make us more organized is appalling. And I think it's really tragic that whatever is required to make you more organized requires

a level of organization that I just do not possess. I don't have it. I'm not able to fix myself. If I went to someone and said, you know, can you help me to become more organized? went to someone and said you know can you help me to become more organized i guarantee that whatever they asked me to do would involve organization no it'll be the worst you know it'd be like okay well you just need to get a routine i'm like you see that's just another word for organization all right do you think you need to pay somebody you think that's what it is i wonder because there are people who just seem to do

so much with their time. I know, but I think they're all manic-depressive. I think all of them have mania, essentially. Right, yeah, okay, that's interesting. And you're only seeing them when they're doing good. Yeah, and then they're

packing the rest of the time pretty solid with hating themselves and wishing for death yeah yeah and i get a lot of that done as well and i think but i mean like i think anxiety and mania and things like that help with a lot of productivity for a lot of people but for a certain amount of time for a certain amount of time um but like i just listened to a podcast today meet the composer right and the guy in it wrote in the last 10 years wrote like two operas he wrote like three viola concertos he wrote all this stuff and then after those 10 years he's like actually i've had some mental illness issues and you go well you know it's it's awful that you've

done that yeah how much you've achieved yeah and it's so amazing and i will never write one opera maybe i will maybe i'll try that tonight i'll add that onto the other shit i'm trying to get organized to do but so and then meanwhile us who are mostly happy and comfortable yeah nothing's coming out yeah i i i i i think you're right and i think like there's a because it's all tied in with like perfectionism and that sort of thing and there's a there's a thing that must drive people which is like an essential dissatisfaction with with themselves or with you know with what they've achieved

to that point that drives them to work harder which is silly because I have an essential dissatisfaction with everything I've achieved yeah

and yet Alistair I am not driven yeah well it could just be that maybe you need to be more organized.

Maybe that's all it is. Maybe they're really organized. Maybe they're not all manic. Oh, shit. I know. I really had an out there. I know. I wish the conversation had ended two minutes ago.

I know. When I just pitied successful people instead of envying them. That was really good, yeah. I mean, if only we could stop wanting. But the thing is, I enjoy doing all the things. I enjoy doing things when I finally can get myself sitting down and doing them. Yeah. Which is also strange.

We're doing what we love. We have the time to do more of it. Well, yeah. I don't have that much time. No, we don't. Unless you've got so much time. You know what I'm saying? Okay, don't. You know what I've started watching a lot? You've got so much time. You know, okay, like, this is... What you've started watching a lot of is your baby.

No, well, other than that, and he's pretty good, but he's got molars coming through right now. Man, brutal. Yeah, that is... Those are the... Those are big teeth. Yeah, big teeth. Big and blunt, right?

Yeah. Like, when they come through, that's not a slicing. That's not a clean cut. That is a bursting. Yeah, it's trying to, like, push a baseball come through, that's not a slicing, that's not a clean cut, that is a bursting. Yeah, it's trying to push a baseball bat through, I don't know, like... A yoga mat. Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, through a yoga mat.

And anyway, but... What was I just talking about? Talking about your son. Talking about what you've been watching a lot of. So, this is like, this is the worst of the worst stuff you can watch. And I enjoy it so much. Really? It's people looking at three houses and picking which one they want to buy.

What do you mean? Like House Hunters, right? It's on like the Lifestyle channel, right? And this is like, and the ones that I like the most is when people are like, it's in like Fort Lauderdale or somewhere that's like coastal and people are picking like coastal. Alistair, who are you? I know, I know. And I like.

You like to watch video of people who can afford a house choosing between three different coastal properties. Yeah, it's become sickening. And this is the two things that are the most... But you hate those people. Oh, I hate them. Of course I hate them, right? But there's something about the show that I really like. I think it's like, you know when you've ever gone house hunting with your parents when they were looking for a house or something like that? I've had crazy times where I thought I could buy a house and I've looked at houses.

And looking at a house feels so good because you can just... Imagine everything. Imagining everything. You're imagining your life in there and all that kind of shit. And every floor in the house, you're like, well, that's a great opportunity to fix that up. Oh, yeah. And everything that's good about the house, you're like, that is a fantastic feature. Yeah.

And you can't lose. Everything's, it's all potential. It's a fantasy land. It's like buying a lottery ticket. Yeah. And so this is what that is. But it's just like you get to see these fucking assholes who have a $900,000 budget.

Or to be honest, like in some of these places, they only have like a $400,000 budget and they're getting these amazing places in america wow yeah and so and then i guess the funny thing is is that for some reason these people in america are fixated on on this right they go into the let's say the master bedroom has an ensuite yeah they go in they go either they go oh my god, it's got a double vanity, right, which is the two sinks. Yeah.

Right? Or they go, oh, only one sink. And I, and I can't believe that. And you love that. I can't believe that.

Is that your favorite bit of the show? It's one of my favorite things. Or they always come in, they go, oh, I love those marble granite, those marble kitchen tops. Yeah,

benchtops. Oh. And those are the two things that almost every single couple will mention. They go, or it's like they mention their wants at the beginning, right? So there was one where the woman was like, I don't like a fireplace. I don't like fireplaces because you have to rearrange the furniture in a weird way. So it's all kind of facing the fireplace. Yeah.

Right? And so then each place they go into, they always have to make allowances. And each place had a fireplace in it. And she's like, Len, this place has got a fireplace. and she's like len this place has got a fireplace and and like you could just see them getting annoyed with the yeah real estate agent and some real estate agents handle it way better than others and some of them like are like yeah well it's part of the deal and the other ones just go anyway is that a sketch i don't know i just i'm just really gobsmacked that you like that kind of thing. Because I feel like I would probably enjoy that.

But the number of times you have mocked me for liking boring television. And that just sounds so tedious. Yeah. At least there is a British version. They're not even building the houses, Alistair. If they were building them and there was a vision and a journey. But it's just like, this one, that one, that one. There is a British version. They're not even building the houses, Alistair. If they were building them and there was like a vision and a journey, but it's just like this one, that one, that one. There is a British version. That one.

Because like, you know, like the things that I've made fun of you for. Are British. Are British. Watching British. British things that are super boring. So boring. Right. And there is a British version of this that somehow, for some reason, they've stretched it out to an hour episode

what do you think of that it's it was so boring because you just want to come on show me the place tell me what you love and you hate let's get out of there right and then show me the place don't tell me what you live and hate and and three houses three three you know three ad breaks it, there's a beautiful symmetry there. People often pick the worst house. That must be satisfying as well. It's awful. Sometimes it's like a house, there's like three. One is the cheapest, one is the middle, and one is the most expensive, right?

And then sometimes the cheapest one is way better than the middle one. Yeah. Right? And they go, we'll take the middle one. Then you go, you idiots. At least the expensive one. Yeah. Right? And they go, we'll take the middle one. And then you go, you idiots. At least the expensive one had everything that you wanted.

Yeah. At least the cheapest one was better than the middle one and cheap. See, this is our, you know, I mean, once upon a time

we would have gone to the Coliseum and we would have watched, you know, Christians being fed to lions. Yeah. And in a way, this is the equivalent of it, right? You are watching people that you

dislike be sort of tested and tormented and then subjected to a fate that you would not wish upon yourself. Yeah, it is weird. Maybe, what else is it? It's also that the houses are things that you would not wish upon yourself yeah so yeah it is weird so yeah and maybe like what else is it like it's also that the houses are things that i would like to have

sure i guess i assume that i probably would like to just own a house yeah even i don't have to go through any of the process of owning a house but i would love to that's how i feel about abs yeah about abs. Yeah. I've been thinking about abs as well. But I even feel like if I had abs for even a short

period of time, I think the novelty would wear off. You know, I'd just probably like abs for a couple of hours. You know what's great

about both houses and abs? Yes. They're both things that action stars own. and abs? Yes. They're both things that action stars own.

I don't think there's an action star in the world that doesn't own a house. Yeah, I think there's an action star in the world that doesn't have abs, though.

I think there are plenty. Really? I don't think Steven Seagal has any abs. No? I reckon Bruce Willis doesn't have any abs, either. Oh, he must have had abs.

I don't reckon he's ever had abs. Really? Yeah. Even during his Demi Moore days? I reckon Bruce Willis had confidence. I reckon he had abs on his confidence. I reckon his confidence could do all sorts. Does he call people friend all the time?

I don't know. He goes, I don't know, friend. When you put it like that, it sounds like he does. I think it's probably a line in Pulp Fiction. Yeah. All right, I'm sorry you took us down that house hunt. Hey, no, no, that was,

I had a great time. I feel like I learned a lot about you. Yeah? Yeah. We have four sketches. We need one more sketch. Well, okay, so what about some sort of house hunting type scenario?

It's right on topic. Right, yeah. Okay, I what about some sort of house hunting type scenario? It's right on topic. Right, yeah. Okay, I'm picturing... Okay, you had an idea? My first thing went to arsonists and they have to choose a house to burn down. But that's not here nor there. What are the things that people strive for? Because I guess, like, this is what, I guess the part is that it's like having, it's like seeing something that you can see yourself in. A chair.

I guess that's why also dating shows are things that people like watching, you know? Yes. Because you go, oh, yeah, I'd like that person. Anyway, that was another show that I started enjoying was First Dates at one point. Someone else was talking to me about First Dates recently. Yeah. It sounds dreadful. Yeah, it is.

But it's great. Like, I think all of these things are awful because I think maybe, like, it's built into us to just automatically hate reality TV, right? Like, that's, I mean, that's a thing society expects of us. I don't know. I think we have, I think it's a thing that we expect of society. And I think when you get out there in the real world, Alistair, so many people love reality television. No, absolutely.

But the people that we respect and that we want respect for, and these arbiters of what is cool and good in culture, they're the ones that would tell you that that is garbage. Okay, right. But that's not society. Well, it's your society. It's my society. It's not necessarily... People in the arts are kind of garbage people. They are. And we've failed. We have failed. It is everyone, it's our fault

that Donald Trump is the president. Look, I think it ends up just coming down to the flawed nature of the fact that just because like the votes were down

on both accounts but like Hillary's number of votes were way lower than the previous thing. So it just happens that less people were excited about going on. She was an uninspiring candidate. I think it ends up coming down to just voter turnout. It's crazy that that's the case.

But also, I do think that the left and progressives have failed to make... I love political correctness, and a lot of people have been talking about political correctness during and after the election as being a big issue. I love political correctness. I think political correctness is one of our best inventions as human beings. But I think the way that we have promoted political correctness has been really bad

and made it seem like an awful, shitty, boring, and unpleasant thing for a lot of people. And I'm not saying that racists should, if we talked about political correctness better, actual racists would have changed their minds. But I think there's a lot of people who, because of the way we've talked about political correctness, have been turned off from the idea and just turned to anything other than that i don't want i don't want to be associated with those people who make

me feel bad yeah well i think yeah i think political correctness ends up being associated with getting yelled at yeah and alienated yeah and but also i don't think i'm okay with like i don't think there's any effectiveness in calling people a racist. Totally. That's what I think about, like, Brexit, right? We called the opposition idiots and racists, and then they won, right? And then Trump, well, we were like, well, let's try calling the opposition idiots and racists. And anyway, they won again.

So I don't know what it is, but next time we are definitely going to call the opposition idiots and racist, and we will see what happens. Yeah, and then there's the opinion that maybe, like, have you read any of this Naomi Klein thing? I've seen her name a lot. I haven't read her recently. I think basically she's just been saying that this is a failure of neoliberalism. I have seen that written down, and I don't quite know what it means. I don't really know much

100% about what that means. But basically it's that the idea of free market and deregulation and all that kind of stuff which has led to the current situation where there's an underclass of people who

have lost their jobs. And are locked out of opportunities. But basically we're And are locked out of opportunities. But basically we're into the second generation of this. Right. And so this second generation, which is kind of our generation, not only are having trouble getting jobs, but they also don't have any savings from when times were good. And so they don't have anything to fall back on.

And it comes from the inequality that basically this system has created and trump is promising a solution to that whereas uh clinton was coming at it going hey this solution is good like this system is good and yeah if we can fix it we can fix it from within the system like that yeah and so then that's kind of what's failed yeah now is there a sketch in that but maybe there's a sketch in something in like in the in the underclass and people who can't like what there's got to be something about inequality you know like oh there's got to be something about inequality alistair like how can you how can you picture how can you make uh a very easily viewable image like like uh like representation representation of the way that money is essentially being siphoned upwards and how little is going downwards.

Yeah, okay. Well, what about someone who's coming around selling raffle tickets, right? And in some way, the raffle or whatever the scheme is that they're selling these tickets to represents the current capitalist model. Okay. Right? So you buy 50 tickets.

You know, you can buy... All right. Well, maybe you can buy one ticket, right? Okay. Or you can buy 50 tickets. Or maybe you can buy a different ticket, which is much more expensive. Or maybe you can pay the person who's the raffle.

You just give them the 50. I don't know. Anyway, I feel like trying to actually get into the discussion of breaking down how the metaphor works would probably take ages. But there's a sketch in. Just write it down. Trust me. Just write it down. Just say the raffle thing. Andy's raffle thing. Just write that down. That's a sketch. Andy's raffle

thing. He'll write it he'll write it later on oh that's awful Andy's a TBC and then Andy will write the raffle thing and then we've done it

it's finished but each model each ideology must have I'll do it tomorrow you must look it's written down it is written down

and it is here the reason the reason why the reason why I'm not giving it any time is because this is this is the exact part of myself that i hate you know like i'll work on that later i'll figure it out it's supposed to be a joke no no it was good it was good i know and i'm sorry i don't have any humor when it comes to what i feel is my greatest failings. But do you think that each economic ideal or whatever it is must have, like, there must be a way of visualizing it. Like, of modeling it to see how that will affect society, right?

Like, there must be ways of predicting the way, like the shortest way for someone who has a lot of money to make money from that and the way that most people will make money from it. So I did, I don't want to brag, but when I was doing my engineering course, I also took an elective in microeconomics or maybe macroeconomics. I can't remember. 101. Okay. And we, I mean, they do have models, you know,

economists have models for all sorts of things. And, you know, there was a very simple model that they showed us that was about supply and demand. And they, you could use that to model different taxation models and that sort of thing, different regulation models. And you could see which ones return the greatest value to the economy and that sort of thing. And they made a, you know, in that course, in the Commerce Department, they made a very persuasive case for free trade, you know, for not having any tariffs and for total open everything like that. And they could show you on the graph. They could just draw a really simple graph and show like, well, this is where the value goes and this is clearly the best model

because you can see here this returns the most to the economy and it's maximum returns to everyone. The people in China, the people over here, everybody gets the most out of when we have this system where there are no boundaries and everything is shared. Not everything is shared. That would be socialism. Everything is open.

Open, yeah. So you can definitely model things. I think what that model didn't show is what happens to the people that doesn't work for. Yeah. Or when you see that everybody's getting the maximum amount. The economy's getting the maximum amount. Who are the people in the economy who get that? Yeah.

But let's say people are getting the amounts, whoever's getting a huge amount, what are the differences in how much they're getting? Yeah, right. The inequality. Yeah, because there's a certain amount where it's like money is just flowing upwards. There's just being siphoned off from the economy.

I don't know. What is the economy? Is the economy just the people? What is the economy? It's the sum total of all the financial transactions, isn't it? That's the economy. Are they saying that there's more financial transactions

or are they saying more money is going to people or is more money going to companies or i think i think you know within the government i think the idea that was in that was within this unit which i think was the country in the subject we were doing more money comes in but i think you could also generalize it down to smaller groups and bigger groups. But, yeah. Because it's a weird thing to model because you're talking about just movement of money. And so is it better to have more money movement? Is that what a good economy does?

I think so, yeah. So essentially it's like turbulent water. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then everybody gets wet, which is what you want. And then there's good there's good like it's it's just it's it's all greased up but also part of this idea for the proper functioning of the economy that they were teaching us and i'm remembering back to several years ago i'll say but was that the idea that every human being is a rational self-maximizer

right which is that every person makes correct choices makes informed and accurate choices about what is best for them right so when you make any financial transaction in your in this model the idea is that you know what is best for you and you know enough information to make the choice that is that thing that is best that will get that best thing okay so i think maybe that's where there's a sketch right so if you're describing that, and then you're talking about that, and then during that, you've just got a picture of a man

who is the example while you're saying that. Yeah. So you explain, and so he knows the best thing about that, and he goes, like that, and then he goes, and he points to like porno magazines,

and like Twiggy Sticks. Yeah, yeah. and things like that and a bunch of scratchies. And then so that's his contribution to the economy. And then it keeps explaining it. what the economists think or what the economic assumptions are in these models and the reality of... I think that's good. I think there's definitely something in that.

I think trying to explain, even if we start off with the lecture and then somehow transition into a situation, like suddenly we're in a real-world situation, we're at a party or we're at a shop or something, and maybe even the lecture is almost there without being seen by the person who's interacting, and they are justifying the decisions that they're making,

the economic decisions, even if they're not strictly financial. Whatever decisions they're making, they're justifying it on this economic basis of the ways in which this will return value. Because we do, I think a lot of the time when we make decisions, think we're being rational, right? And that would be fun to like get to that, like to have the economist in our brain. I'm sort of jumping around now, but like to have the economist in our, the economist, I keep wanting to say the economist in our brain um in a very like

scientific and rational way explaining the decisions that we've made and justifying them even that when they are like terrible terrible decisions right like about having another beer or whatever it is yeah yeah and but but then yeah but then i think that there's definitely some decisions that you make that are not necessarily to benefit you or there's a weird logic. So I think at some point maybe the narrator economist kind of person would be like, actually, I'm not sure what he's doing right now. Because there's sometimes when like – Right. I know of like somebody kind of like who's walked in walked in one direction realize they're walking in the

wrong direction right but then been like i'm not going to turn around because i'm i'm worried that what what people around me are going to think so i'm going to walk all the way around the block yeah and i guess but that that is that is in a way like you know you're making an economic yeah you know decision on the basis of like how much do I value the opinion of these strangers you know versus my time walking around the block

yeah yeah but like I think yeah maybe and that makes sense so I think at first the economist is like okay wait I'm not sure

what he's doing right now okay he seems to be walking in the opposite direction okay yeah no he's seen this person over there looking at him kind of funny oh yeah okay

I see yeah oh no he's assessed that his disapproval is worth $8.74, yeah, no, he's seen this person over there looking at him kind of funny. Oh, yeah, okay, I see, yeah. Oh, no, no, no. He's assessed that his disapproval is worth $8.74. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then he goes and, like, interrupts the person as he's walking around, and they go, what are you doing? Yeah.

Okay, okay. So what he told me was that he'd gone the wrong way, and then he realized, and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He saw that person over there, and he's like, oh, he didn't want to. Okay, cool. So, oh, theory still works.

Yeah, what if, like, what if there's some sort of scenario where the government has assigned an economist to observe this guy, and maybe he's got a small class? Sometimes there'll be a workplace placement for someone as part of their educational course, right? Like my sister is studying orthotics and prosthetics, and she's gone to hospitals and done a placement as part of that. Yeah. Doctors do it all the time as well. They love it. They love it, Alistair.

Love a placement. Oh, my God. Teachers love a placement. Doctors love a placement. Everyone loves a little body placement. Everyone loves that little buddy placement. But for some reason, this person has been placed with just like a regular member of society, right? They're not placed with an institution or a corporation.

They're placed with an individual. And then maybe they have a small class of people who are also following them. And like a doctor would come around to your bed with a group of trainee medical students, right, and talk to you about your condition and observe you and poke you and prod you. But this is just like, yeah, an economist, a behavioral economist or something who's just like following you around and like discussing your decisions with the class as you're making them. And it's like kind of, you you know maybe you're on a date or something you're trying to talk to someone and and like everything that you do he's saying okay so what he's doing here is he's trying to assert a sort of social hierarchy and he's referring to certain norms um you'll notice that he's uh got his eyebrows raised which suggests he's sort of a an a level of interest but we can also tell from the fact that he's flicking with his fingers. I don't know, whatever it is. Yeah, that he's distracted.

Yeah. Okay, look, I've got economist. What was the word that you used? Behavioral economist. Yeah, behavioral. Which is a buzzword, or at least probably was about eight years ago, which is where I get all my buzzwords from. And that is, I think behavioral behavioural economists are people who try

and address the flaws in the economic models that I was discussing earlier, those really basic ones that assume humans are all rational self-maximisers. Behavioural economics tries to actually connect it a little bit more with the way humans actually behave, which is probably a bit of a bloody good idea as far as I'm concerned. You can't just be living in a fantasy land the entire time. You can't just be out there saying, well, this is what a human is. There's a little box here, a little teal box, colouring it a little square on a piece of paper.

Humans are actually living, breathing creatures. Living, breathing. Oops. Andy, we're at the creatures. Living, breathing. Oops. Andy, we're at the end. Oh, good. I think she's been a longer one than some of the others. Yeah, you reckon she's been a long one. I feel like I've taken us through some flat spots.

No, I don't think so. I think we just learned a lot about you. Learned a lot about me. Learned a lot about Economics 101 or whatever we remember. I think I really, really brought some really interesting stuff. I think a lot of people are going to go with a real informed... A lot of people are going to go home because I guess I imagine this is the kind of thing that you listen to on public transport.

Yeah, this is the sort of thing. You can't listen to this at home. This is shameful. You'd probably go to an internet cafe and listen to this. Yeah, you'd be surprised. Using a, what are those, a VPN. Oh yeah, you would listen to this with a VPN. You don't want the government to know.

Yeah. Take us through what we've come up with today, Alistair. Okay, five sketches today are the greatest achievement being not making it to the top of Everest. Yes. Right, so it's actually a much greater challenge to get close to the top of Everest and then decide not to, that you don't need to make it all the way to the top. Conquer the Everest of ego. Yeah.

Then everything is being destroyed and then you've got a bag of seeds. Do you plant them or eat them? It's a weird sketch. Yeah. I mean, could you fry them with a little bit of butter? Oh, absolutely. Do you reckon they'd pop? Do you reckon you could get, like, pop?

That's the thing, though. Then they'd be really moorish. That's the problem. Lightly toasted. I mean, especially if they're... Ooh. Yeah. Oh, if you could get them, then get them to the ocean.

Dip them in. Bit of salt. A little salt on there. Sea salt, too. That's classy. It bit of salt. A little salt on there. Sea salt, too. That's classy. It's very classy. It's very middle class. Then there's a lawyer who's attempting the affluenza defense

so that he can get a whole bunch of rich clients. Yeah. Yeah. I think he could have a few different ideas that are in the tank, you know, about defending people on the basis that they have too many cars. Yeah, well, that's right. The reason why he hit somebody is because he has a lot of cars. And so he's more... Each one of his kills should be worth less.

You divide that by the number of cars. Yeah. Totally. At least you can get his defense down. Per car, he's actually well below the national average. Yeah. He's actually hit way fewer people than the average man. That's quite good.

That's quite good You can either Afford one great lawyer Or a hundred terrible lawyers I'll take a hundred terrible lawyers Yes, thank you Thank you, I don't know why you're so polite And then we've got Andy's Because he was brung up right, Alistair

We've got Andy's raffle thing To be confirmed Oh, I'm excited for that one That sounds good And that's all, that's all we needed Right, Alistair? Yeah. We got Andy's raffle thing to be confirmed. Oh, I'm excited for that one. That sounds good. And that's all. That's all we needed. So all that, we'll finish.

Yep. And then we've got a behaviour economist who follows a guy around to explain his decisions and the contrast. And then it sort of shows you the contrast maybe between some of the theory and some of the actual practice of economics. But he tries to explain it. Thank you for listening. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Thank you for listening.

Thank you very much. While Andy clicks the stop button.