U Talkin’ U2 To Me? - U Talkin' Talking Heads 2 My Talking Head? - Remain In Light (w/ Tawny Newsome)

Episode Date: August 26, 2020

Tawny Newsome (Star Trek: Lower Decks, Space Force) joins Adam Scott Aukerman to discuss the fourth Talking Heads studio album “Remain in Light.” They also talk about Tawny’s time in a Talking Heads tribute band in Chicago, how she got involved in the Documentary Now episode spoofing the Talking Heads’ concert film Stop Making Sense, and taking a Remain In Light approach while recording her latest album.

From E to Zimbra, this is... You talking talking heads to my talking head? The comprehensive and encyclopedic compendium of all things talking heads. This is good. Rock and roll. Music? Music? Music.

Welcome to the show, ladies and gentlemen. I think this is the only time I've ever said ladies and gentlemen. I have a question. I have a question. Speaking of gentlemen, the ultimate gentleman, the man's man himself. Yes. Hi there. Hi, everybody.

Adam Scott here. First time caller, long time listener listener i have a question for scott you've never called into the show but you have listened to yourself talking on every show long time listener first time caller like i said um when when you said ladies and gentlemen it reminded me of sometimes people when they're poking a little bit of fun at uh you know saying ladies and gentlemen they say ladies and germs right oh not these days people aren't saying ladies and germs oh no no no no germs germs are everywhere these days right i hadn't thought of uh thought of that that is really irresponsible in these days of covid 19 19 as paul hardcastle once cautioned America.

Where do you think that came from? Like, why switch it to germs? The number 19? Well, we can go through both. Okay, let's go through both germs and 19. Okay, first, let's do 19. Okay, well, here's the deal. Yeah. The letter

9. The letter 9. Is 9 a letter? The letter 9? Yeah. Okay, the letter 9. I'm with you. Yeah. The letter nine. The letter nine. Is nine a letter? The letter nine? Yeah. Okay, the letter nine. I'm with you. Nine should be a letter, shouldn't it? Yeah. What is the ninth?

Okay, if I were to ask you what the ninth letter of the alphabet is, and just throw out whatever you think it is right off the top, what's the ninth letter of the alphabet? K. Let's see. A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I... No, I'm off by two. K was... Yeah, throw out anything to me. Any number.

The 37th. 37th would be... M. Let's go through it. Okay. A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J. That's 10. D-E-C-D-E-F-G-H-I-J. That's 10. K-L-M-N-O-P-Q-R-S-T. That's 20.

U-V-W-X-Y-Z. 26. A-B-C-D. 30. E-F-G-H-I-J-K-L-M. Wow. Is 39. What did you say?

37? No, it was your guess. Yeah, no, but I guessed M. Oh, right. Yeah, you were right. You were right. Was I right? Okay, I'm lost.

I'm lost. Me too. I am lost, but great show lost. Yeah. A lot of fun. The others. So fun. There was the button they pushed and other things.

Lots of stuff. The hatch. The hatch. What about Richard Hatch? Isn't it so weird that Survivor, the first season has Richard Hatch, and he ends up winning the entire thing. Meanwhile, on the show that has the exact same plot, Lost, a bunch of people stuck on an island, they have a hatch. We should ask Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse if the hatch was inspired by Richard Hatch. I'll bet you it was. I'll bet you it was.

I'll bet you 1,000% it was. Those sneaky devils. I'll bet you 1000% it was those sneaky devils. And then there was also a character named Susan and a character named Kelly. The triple three from the first Survivor season. Oh, wow. Yeah. Well, you know what?

I'm just writing down all the questions for Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof. Should this not be a Talking Heads podcast anymore? This should just be a Lost or maybe a Survivor. I think that's what this is, is a Lost slash Survivor podcast. I think people would enjoy it maybe more if it were. I'm not quite sure. Most assuredly, they would enjoy it more. Well, I'm enjoying this. I certainly am.

I'm always enjoying talking to my friend from, I was going to say from the north, because you're a little bit north of me. Do you consider yourself to be from the north? Yeah, absolutely. I'm in what's known as northern Southern California. My friend over here, we talked about it last week. He now seems to have shaved his mustache into a Fu Manchu. Is that right? Or is it just a beard that has a little bit of gray where the chin would be?

that has a little bit of gray where the chin would be. I think it's just an unkept mustache that sort of just ended up joining its friends on my face. So it's not anything at the moment. I need you to be a little bigger, though, because I can't see that chin. Do you have darkness on the chin? There's darkness on the chin, but you know what? Is this an episode of What My Beard Does? It might be.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to What My Beard Does. This is Scott. And this is Scott. And today, we're just talking about what our respective beards do. And look, I'm not here talking about what anyone else's beard is doing, okay? No, no, no, no, that's not the show. That's not the show. This is about what my beard does. My beard. I don't want to talk about any... I'll listen to what people have to say about it.

My ears are open and my heart is full. Absolutely, but as far as... Absolutely, you want to come to us and talk to us about your beard? Please do. Yeah. Just not on this show. Don't expect me to talk about your beard.

I'm talking about what my beard does. Why the fuck would I ever talk about your beard? Great point. Exact point I was trying to make. You're the one growing your own beard. I can't talk about it. Right. Do I go and ask you about your garden?

No. No. I'll talk about my garden. Is this an episode of I'll talk about my garden is this an episode of i'll talk about my garden yes hey everybody welcome to i'll talk about my garden this is scott and this is scott and today we're talking about our own gardens not yours not your not that other guy we've been look we woman's over there we've been getting a lot of messages on social media. A lot of mail.

A lot of emails. Like, hey, can you talk about my garden, please? It needs more attention. Please talk about my garden. Guess what our answer to that question is? Not only no, but fuck no. That's right. I don't come down to where you work, slap the dick out of your mouth.

That's right. And talk about your garden. You know, Scott, that is exactly right. So talk about your garden, Adam. Oh, I don't have one. Yeah, neither do I. Okay, bye. Bye.

Bye. Anyway, tell us about your mustache or your beard. I don't care about your mustache. That's right. This is a show about beards. Yeah, beards. My beard has always... Did you just light a match?

Well, I just lit a candle in here. I thought you had a super stinky fart. I didn't tell you that I installed a toilet in my closet? stinky farts did i tell you i didn't tell you that i installed a toilet in my closet we are taping in our respective closets uh by the way for sound purposes it sounds really good all those uh warm sweaters by you really soak up the uh the acoustics do they not i think i think maybe the first episode was recorded in my living room which is a little more, not cavernous, but not as- What would you describe your decorating style as? Neo-fascist. I don't think that's, that's not a good look on you. I think you may want to change it up.

Yeah. Well, that's what we're going with right now. Okay. Yeah. Maybe switch to modern mid-century. I don't know. Sure. In any case, tell me about your beard. My beard, as far as my beard is concerned, I'm not talking about anyone else's beard right now for the moment. Fidel Castro, sorry. No, I'm not talking about his beard.

Oh, I thought you were trying to get me to- Mandy Patinkin? No, sir. Not talking about it. I'm referring only to my beard. tends to grow uh in the chin area on the sides and not as much in the middle how about you what about your beard is that because you're you're uh you spend so much time uh going downtown uh as as they say i haven't been able to go downtown much at all since uh covid started because the traffic on the one on one has been insane.

These are all euphemisms, right? Sexy. That's right. You know what I mean by traffic on the one on one. I certainly do. The one inch penis on your one body. That's right. My beard.

You know, I had I had trouble growing a beard. Oh, no. Until maybe I was 21 or so. In fact, when I was 18, I wanted to audition for Little Shop of Horrors. And I had played the dentist in my high school production. And so I went to a local theater in La Mirada, I think maybe. And I auditioned for the dentist in my high school production and so i i went to a local theater in la marada i think maybe and i auditioned for for the dentist but i wanted to look tough high stakes so i i wore a leather jacket but um and i tried growing like stubble but all i could grow was like a really blonde beard. Like invisible beard.

Yeah. You couldn't see it all. So instead I took mascara and I darkened the beard to just to show that, hey, I could look tough. Oh, no. You say, oh, no, but I think it actually looked OK. That oh, no turned into an OK, I think. Did you get the role? Fuck no. Yeah.

I was 18 years old. They're like, who's this kid with the mascara beard? They wanted a man they didn't want. Someone who just turned 18 with a high voice. I'll be a dentist!

A dentist! Anyway, that's it for this episode. See you next time. Bye. Bye. Good shit. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Really good shit. Hey, you know, I know that you introduced yourself, but I think that we should both introduce ourselves.

What do you say? Sure. Why don't you go next? I am the, I'm going to say I'm the co-host of the show. Because I think there cannot be a host and a co-host. There has to be two co-hosts, right? Indeed. Equal stature.

I'm the co-host of this show. My name is Scott Aukerman. And across from me here, and very across from me, coming from a totally different city, and very across from me, coming from a totally different city, is a man who I can see his computer reflection in his eyeglasses, and the weird shit that he has on his desktop right now is... Can you tell what it is? No, but that's always a plot point in something like Twin Peaks, where they see a reflection in the iris of someone's eyes or their glasses or something and go, check that out.

And on the last episode of The Good Fight, it was a big. Really? Yeah. How good was that fight? It was a good fight. It was a good fight. In fact, I would say it was the good fight. I don't know why they didn't call that show the best fight.

In fact, I would say it was the good fight. I don't know why they didn't call that show the best fight. Well, because it's a spinoff from the TG... IF? TGW... K... U. TGWKU. Extended U.

The Good Wife... The Good Wife... EU. Known Universe. Or Extended. Known... Look, there's a lot out there that we don't know about when it comes to the good wife universe.

This is what we know. This is what we know. The Big Bang Theory. Okay, probably created all life. But then the good wife. Smash cut to the good wife. And then the good wife. That's what we know.

And then the good fight. Of course, the good fight. But why did they call her the best wife she was very supportive when she stood up there next to him alicia florick absolutely not only did she stand up yeah did you okay wait i've never seen one episode no you've never seen the good wife no i've never seen the good wife okay i'm here to say the good wife is an incredible show okay and the good fight is also an incredible show they're not gonna hire you adam no matter how hard you try i have been trying for years not a not a word i wish you would reprise your role from veronica mars which i

re-watched recently uh every episode and uh was laughing during your episode you mean like a pedophile teacher yeah i wish you would reprise that for the good fight that guy listen like i would i would but they no matter how many times i praise the show um they don't have actually i don't know if i ever have before i think that guy that you played on veronica mars whose whose catchphrase i believe is suck it to me baby yeah mr rooks mr rooks i think he could be like a richard belzer type munch character who just travels you know throughout several uh television shows guest starring in them. Yes, he's a pedophile school teacher who knocked up a student.

But, you know, he's an interesting guy and has so many great catchphrases. Can I hear you say your catchphrase, though? Suck it to me, baby. Is that what I said? Yeah, I believe it is. I remember that being really hard. Like is because your penis way rob that's right that's exactly what i was what i was saying hey oh hey oh rob thomas of course uh the great uh veronica mars creator uh who then uh did party down am i right about that? That's right. And whom I met at a Party Down Museum of Television event where you were, I might have been a guest of yours, although maybe we didn't know each other that well back then.

When was this? I feel like it must have been 2002-ish or something like that. And he is a big Mr. Show fan and came up and talked to me for a while. And that was really nice. Oh, I was with Tall John. So maybe we were- 2002. Well, Party Down didn't even start filming until 2009. So it was probably after that. I think it was 2001, maybe September 11th, 2001. Right after we found out what had happened, we decided to get together and talk about the show. A show that wasn't going to start filming for another eight years.

That's right. So wait, Party Down was 2009? That seems late. That's when we start. No, we started shooting it in late 2008. It came out in 2009. More like 2008. Whoa. Whoa. Is this another episode of Red Hot Zingers? I think it is.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Red Hot Zingers. This is Scott. Oh, yeah. And this is Scott. And what better band to score Red Hot Zingers than the Red Hot Chili Peppers themselves? Oh, man, there's nothing I like more than putting on some Red Hot Chili Peppers and coming up with some Red Hot Zingers.

You know what I'm saying. All right, so this is the show where we try to zing each other in a Red Hot manner. Oh, shit. And, all right, what do you got? Go ahead, try to zing each other in a red hot manner. Oh, shit. And all right. What do you got? Go ahead. Try to zing me. Make sure that it's red hot.

Make sure it's red hot. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, these are red hot only. Anything that's not red hot, anything that's not going to sting. Anything that's toasty, that's for another show. No, no, no. And also, it can't be too red hot so that it burns to a crisp and crumbles in your hands. We don't want to hurt each other's feelings.

That's another thing about this show. No, no, no, no, no. It's all in good fun, but even the slightest negative critique of myself gets me really upset. Well, yeah. That's called a burn. This is not a burn. This is a red hot zinger. This is a red hot zinger. This is a red hot zinger.

And we, of course, but please don't criticize me or my looks or my mother or my work. Absolutely not. And that goes, that goes both ways. It's a safe space here on red hot zingers. Absolutely. No burns here. No burns. No burns.

Red hot zingers. Red hot zingers here. No burns. Red hot zingers. No burns. No Burns. Red Hot Zingers. Red Hot Zingers here. No Burns. Red Hot Zingers. No Burns. No Burns. So just please be gentle with me. Absolutely. I know it's all good fun, but just say, you know, and maybe you might choose instead of to do a Red Hot Zinger. Maybe it's just a compliment. Who knows? You know, right. You never know. And another like one of the first rules of Red Hot Zingers is we define what a Red Hot Zinger is in the moment. In the moment, we know it. Look, it's a lot like pornography. If I'm looking at it, it probably is one.

That's right. If I'm looking at it, it's probably a Red Hot Zinger and it's probably free pornography. Is that what you mean? That's right. So hit me, Adam. Hit me, but be gentle, please. My delicate heart can't take you got it. Okay. Oh, man. Scott, you know, today I was

I had to go to the grocery store, pick up some items, and I stopped and I saw in the soft drink aisle, you know, where they have different types of soft drinks. Oh, sure. We all know the soft drink aisle. Pepsi, Diet Pepsi, Sprite, Diet Sprite, Fanta. That's right.

Diet Fanta. Anything you want soda-wise, you're going to find it in the soda aisle. Yes, exactly. That's right. That I remember going down that aisle when I was a kid, just like I could not wait to get there to see what kind up and down. Where's the can of the dry? The ale of the ginger root. I am on the verge of asking someone that works at the grocery store, hey, man, where's the ginger ale? Yeah. I've been there. And then I stopped.

I stopped. I turned to my right and I saw some root beer. Okay. Okay. Okay. Still not finding the ginger ale. But it's okay because I turn. I see some root beer. And you know. Still not finding the ginger ale. But it's okay because I turn, I see some root beer

and you know what I thought? What's that? I thought, I bet Scott would like a nice, tall, frosty root beer right about now. And so I grabbed one, threw it in the cart. Wow.

And that. That's a red hot zinger. That is a red hot zinger. No burns. No burns. No burns. All right, we'll see you next time. Thanks. Whoa red hot zinger. No burns. No burns. No burns. All right, we'll see you next time. Thanks.

No, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is unprecedented. Stopping the goodbyes in the middle of red hot zingers? It wouldn't be an episode of red hot zingers without you zinging me, bro. Oh, okay. All right, all right, all right. Here we go. What are my parameters, first of all?

What are you sensitive about that you don't want me to make fun of? Everything. Okay. Anything will hurt my feelings. Anything and everything, even a gentle nudge in that direction. I hate it. Okay. All right. All right. Well, let me see if I can come up- But I want to get zinged. I want that zing. Adam, your weight is so perfectly proportionate to your frame and your height and your BMI is right on target. That's right. So that when you sit around the house, people who pass by say like, oh, wow, Adam looks really good today. That's a Red Hot Singer!

Red Hot Singer! No burns! We'll see you next time! Wow. That was, uh... Those guys are intense. A little too intense for me, if I'm going to be honest. It's, I, you know, I just don't like that kind of cringe humor.

Yeah, me neither. It's too mean. It's too mean. It's too mean of a show. So I don't think that we'll hear from those guys ever again. Never. Not once. I think they should commit suicide. Both of them. Yep. By the way, if you're listening to this, and I sincerely hope you are, and if you aren't, you can't hear me.

I do want to introduce my co-host. He is the co-host with the co-most. He is... I do have the co-most. COVID-19 the most. That's right. He is... Oh, saw him uh speaking of red hot zingers you saw him on the parks and recreation special which how much money did that raise for uh for for the cast um man we raked it in.

So I know there is this whole charity thing out there. Yeah. This charity angle, but. Bucco Dolores. But yeah. Anyway, Adam, Adam Scott is here. Hello, Adam. Yeah.

No, I think it ended up raising at last time I had heard or checked. It was like $4 million for feeding America. It, I would imagine it's even more than that by now which is terrific amazing four of those uh little numbers with the six zeros oh boy do we love them zeros oh hey you know what add another zero on that why don't you oh god you got me. Oh, man. If only Red Hot Zingers were back. I know. But unfortunately, yeah.

They shut down, closed up shop. Yep. Shut down, shut down, closed. They stopped, dropped, opened up shop. I feel like, was that talking, is this an episode talking about money? Oh, yeah, I think it is! Hey everyone, welcome to Talking About Money. This is Scott.

And this is Scott. And we're just talking about money here. It's been a long time since we did an episode. Yeah. But here we are, talking about money. Just chit-chatting about the old ching-ching. You know it. You know that little button on the cash register? No sale?

Yeah. You know that one? The one that opens up? And what's that sweet sound? Cha-ching! Cha-ching! I love it. I love that sound.

You know why? I love it. Why is that? I actually, I don't know. I think it has something to do with the topic of the show, but I think this show might just be about sounds and how much we love sounds. Is this an episode of how much we love sounds? I think it is.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to How Much We Love Sounds. Spoon Man, come together with your hands. Hey everyone, welcome to How Much We Love Sounds. This is Scott. And this is Scott. And we're talking about sounds? And how much we love them? And how much do you love sounds? I think I legitimately am in love with them.

I think that I am too. What's your favorite sound? My favorite sound? A big, beefy fart? I knew we'd get there. All right, we'll see you next time bye bye so yeah i don't money i don't think we love money at all it seems like rather than money yeah we might just love sounds yeah i think money might be we were talking about ginger root recently or the guys in red hot zingers were i think it might be the root of all evil

i think you're right i think i guess this is the final episode of talking about money okay all right we'll see you next time bye man a lot of shows doing their final episodes man yeah this is uh this is tough this has turned into a bit of a bit of a day a bit of a day indeed this is a lot like when, remember when that, do you remember that show that Jerry Seinfeld had in the 90s? What was it called? It was this guy, Jerry Seinfeld, and it was his friends. I don't even remember his friends. Who were his friends? Oh, I've seen that with like Courtney Cox. Yeah, Courtney Cox, Matt

LeBeau? No. I think that's an agent. Matt LeBlanc. Matt LeBeau, that's right. Is he a publicist? He is a publicist. He's awesome. Sure. Yeah.

Anyway, it's a lot like that when that stopped doing their show, the name of which escapes me, but I believe it was about friends. Welcome to the show. And Adam, I gotta know. Yeah. I gotta know right now. Will you love me forever? Yeah. Thanks.

No brobs. Do you think we're going to grow old together, that we're going to be too on Zoom until we're old men? you're 75 and i'm you know um 58 and we're like sitting on the porch and as old men and we're just like still talking about uh jams that we liked when we were 14 years old what band would we like like we'll be talking about a band that doesn't even exist at this point. Because we'd already gone through all the rest of them. Zerplex 12-18 star. And the audience is dwindled down to people that died three years ago. Who somehow their online profile is able to still listen to podcasts. Still, yeah.

They're still part of the automatic downloads because they subscribed. But I look forward to that. There's no one else that I would rather grow old with than you. Me too. I want to see those rinkies on that face. I want to see them. I want to feel the rinks. I want to put creases in your face right now.

I wish that I were in the same room with you so I could just mold your face like Silly Putty and put wrinkles in there so I could tell what you're going to look like when you're old. Just grab that face and just wrink it up. Just wrink it. I just want to see it. I want to see it. I want to see it. I want to get silver spray paint and just spray your hair with it. I want to make your hair different colors.

So that you look like leonardo dicaprio and j edgar just i want everyone to look like leo and j edgar hoover everyone every single person if everyone were old then no one would be considered old anymore and there wouldn't be this stigma anymore you know what what I mean? That's right. It's like that show where everyone's blind. I think it's like Children of Men where like no new babies. That's the thing. That was like a dystopian future.

I think it would be rad because- No babies. No babies. Because suddenly there's no more competition for all the good roles. No competition of love from mothers. Yeah, well, yeah. We as grown-up humans

would get all of that love from all the mothers. Yeah, which, that's the worst part about babies. Yeah, they take all the love. They take 99.9% of it. I want smooches and cuddles from mothers all around the world. Yes, not just Naomi. Why do they have to give it to babies?

Exactly. I want their undivided attention, ladies. At all times. That's right. So I think it would be great. One thing Children of MedNet did not bring up is whether there are puppies in the world. Like, were new dogs? wonder also like it it had been 18 years since the or 19 years since the last baby was born which is the lifespan of a dog so if was there a dog in that movie do you remember seeing

it never hearing at least like in the adr a dog barking off screen and some going, someone shut that dog up. No, I don't remember, but we should watch it and find out because that's a really good question. And we should also get on the horn with Alfonso Cuaron. Yeah, yeah. We should ask him. Look, Alfonso, I know you're listening. Yep. Can you tell us about the dogs? Are there dogs? Are there dogs in the Children of Menevers?

What about mice? What about spiders? What about spiders? What about mosquitoes? Fleas. Flea? Hey, speaking of which. Right back to the red hot chilies.

Right back to the chili peppers. That was a red hot zinger. That was a red hot zinger. That was a red hot zinger. No burns. No burns. No burns. All right. We have to take a break, Adam.

Is that all right? Do we have to? I haven't even said what we're going to do in our next segment. When we come back, we have a guest on the show. We have the inimitable Tawny Newsome. Fantastic. Who you may know from Space Force or Star Trek Lower Decks. I keep saying desk.

And she's a Talking Heads super fan, and we're going to be talking to her and then talking to her Talking Head, and then we'll be talking about Remain in Light. That's pretty exciting. All right. All right, so we will be right back. When we come back, we'll have Tawny Newsome, and we'll be talking talking heads. We'll be right back after this. Welcome back, you talking heads to my talking head.

We're back. We're going to be talking about Remain in Light today, a seminal album from Talking Heads Discography, their fourth record. But before we get to that, Adam, when we decided to segue into talking about Talking Heads, I knew that there was one person that we had to have on the show. She is a Talking Heads super fan. She has a long history with the band. Not only is she a very successful actor out there, she's currently on Space Force on Netflix, as well as Star Trek Lower Decks on CBS All Access.

She was a cast member of Bajillion Dollar Properties, a show i uh had a minimal involvement with but my wife made and um she has a but but she was also in duck the documentary now stop making sense sense episode god damn why can't i talk i don't know i really don't know to bring her on this is freaking me out this is a big we got a big star on here. She's worked with Steve Carell. Have you ever worked with Steve Carell? Fuck no, you haven't. Yeah, I have.

In what? I was on Rashida's show. Huh? Remember Rashida's show that- Angie Tribeca? Yeah, Angie Tribeca. There you go. Thanks, Tawny. Huh?

Hi, guys. Yeah, you're welcome. I had no idea. Was he there on set? He was. But regardless, Tawny is incredible. You worked with him. What was your involvement?

You acted on it. Did he ever give you one note or pay attention to anything you did? We put together a skateboard on set, but we did it together. We had to like put the trucks on and then the wheels and get the ball bearings in there. Did you work in props on this show? We both did a few days on props and I did end up acting on it later down the road.

Oh, okay. In any case, Tawny Newsome is here. Hello, Tawny. Hello. I'm sorry I scare you. Yeah, I'm really fucking nervous. It's good to see you. So, you know, like I said, your involvement with Talking Heads goes really deep out of probably all my friends.

You know the most about them. And so, you know, I really wanted to have you on this episode, especially since I believe Remain in Light is one of your favorite records. But, you know, going backwards a little bit, I mean, that's certainly going to be in our future talking about that kind of stuff and your multiple projects that involve talking heads. But I want to take it a little bit back. I want to go further back in time. Who knows? Five years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. Who knows how far back we're going to go? And really just get down to just really dig deep and really get down to basically at its bare essence, what I want to ask you is, when did you first hear of talking heads? Wow. Now I'm nervous. I didn't know this was going to be like hard-hitting journalism.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a good question, huh? Yeah, it's a good question. What really makes you think? It does make me think back to, I think my stepmom was a fan of them. My stepmom was very much into New Wave and kind of this proto punky era of stuff. When was your stepmom bored, if I may ask? She is young. So what is she now? She's 54.

She's very young. I have young parents, so everybody chill out. But, yes, she was a big fan. Were people upset about it? I think she saw that I started jumping up and down. You can say, yes, 54. Because that's your favorite studio. Young parents, young parents.

Yeah, and I love Studio 54. I think people that I'm friends with who aren't that much older than me, when they hear how old my parents are, get offended and angry. Because they're like, why are your parents almost my peers? And I'm like, generations are your parents almost my peers? And I'm like, generations are weird, you guys. Anyway, she was a big fan and I wasn't into it in high school because it sounded bouncy and weird and I didn't understand. What did you like in high school? Oh, I was the worst. I mean, I liked Weezer. I liked the Pixies. That was my one cool, my one cool band, but everything else was just alt rock trash and weird r&b so i wasn't doing it right when you say weird r&b what are what are we talking and alt rock trash i'm also

curious about um i loved anita baker because my mom loved anita baker um but you just said your mom loved talking heads and you didn't love talking heads no that was my stepmom there are two women in this story sir oh sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry so you took your mom's side when it came to music and you didn't like what your stepmom liked is that right yeah yeah i think because i i liked to sing and i could sing along to like anita baker and like kind of the croonier stuff that my mom was into my stepmom was into very bouncy My stepmom listened to like Oingo Boingo and like a lot of Depeche Mode and stuff that I was just like, she's the coolest. Now I'm like, I know now our tastes are aligned.

So yeah, she was right. But my mom was wrong. Your mom is not wrong. Come on. Anita Baker, listen, come on. Anita Baker is fantastic. What about we're going riding on the free Baker. Listen. Come on. Anita Baker's fantastic. What about, we're going riding on the freeway of love.

I don't think that's Anita Baker. That's not Anita Baker. That's Aretha Franklin. Are you just saying names that start with an A? Yeah. Oh, okay. Let's keep going. Let's go down the alphabet.

Al Jarreau. Sure. ACDC. Yep. There we go. ACDC, by the way, recording in the studio next to Talking Heads when they recorded Remain in Light, recording their Back in Black album. That is a weird detail. Is it not?

The sound bleed must have been very stressful for the engineers. Yes. Well, you can actually, if you turn up the Remain in Light record, you can actually hear them going, hear uh them going they should have left it in background yeah they should have it would have been a hit it's such a layered album like their whole thing is layering right that should have been one of them so when did you first when did you actually like what was what hooked you into liking talking headsads? Ah, yes. Great question. God, I'm two for two. I know. This is great. Step aside, Katie Couric.

And Katie Perry and Katie Holmes. All of them. All the Katies. Take a backseat to Scotty. All three of my dream Katies. I just like that Scott's main competition is Katie Couric. Adam, who are some of your dream Katies? Let's go dream Katies real quick.

Yeah, dream Katies. Well, there's Katie Holmes. Wait, wait, wait. Is this an episode of dream Katies? Let's go Dream Katies real quick. Yeah, Dream Katies. Well, there's Katie Holmes. Wait, wait, wait. Is this an episode of Dream Katies? Yes. I think so. Ice cold Katie, won't you marry the soldier? Ice cold Katie, won't you do it today?

Ice cold Katie, won't you marry the soldier? Soon he'll march away. Hey, everyone. Welcome to Dream Katies. This is Scott. And this is Scott. And we have a special guest host. I'm Tawny.

I'm just here. Well, you're a guest. I mean, youwny i'm just here you well you're a guest i mean you're more than just here yeah i mean no quite honestly invented this podcast yeah you may be the biggest reason why this podcast exists yeah you're right so i guess without any further ado we should get into our dream katie's all right but don't push us just because you're the only reason this podcast exists doesn't mean you get to run the fucking show. Oh, you're right. Sorry. Okay, have your stupid fucking banter. Go ahead. Take a back seat.

We're men here. We want to talk. Go nuts. Go nuts. We have to be in the front seat. We finally want to be heard as men. Have a blast. Who are your dream Katie's?

Well, did we already say Katie Holmes? Yes. That's one of my dream Katie's. Oh, Katie. say katie holmes yes that's one of my dream katies oh um katie uh why don't let's see what what tani what tani has and i'll uh and i'll try and dream some nice dude you i mean we wanted to do this show and then we come to you with the first question you're like hey what are your dream katies you can't even fucking think of one well i thought of katie holmes but i i already claimed her okay so she's yours what tani go ahead well i know i think we already said katie holmes but i i already claimed her okay so she's yours what tony go ahead well i know

i think we already said katie perry but i mean she's mine she's actually all god damn it these are mine these are my katies oh katie porter katie porter that's my dream katie who's katie porter um she's a congressperson oh right what Oh, right. What about Katie Lang? Are we counting KDs as well? Yeah, that's different. I thought that's what we were talking about. Oh, KDs? Yeah, KD Holmes, KD Perry.

Who's KD Holmes? She's my neighbor. Oh, all right. That's a whole different thing. Oh, you guys were talking KDs? Yeah, it's a different podcast. KDs. Yeah. I'm not interested in this podcast.

Oh. I'm quitting. Did you think we were on an episode of... Goodbye. Ice cold Katie, won't you marry the soldier? Ice cold Katie, won't you do it today? Ice cold Katie, won't you marry the soldier? Soon he'll march away.

Good episode. That was great. Was it? I thought it was really good. I was really engaged. It's hard for me to know how you guys measure what's a good episode or not. Because I thought that was great. That was a 10 out of 10, yeah.

Oh, okay. Yeah, that was about as good as a podcast guests. Not just here, but anywhere in the world. Any podcast. Serial. Others. Conan O'Brien. The top two. The top Serial, others, Conan O'Brien. The top two.

The top two, Serial and Conan O'Brien. Okay, so now, what was the first time you got hooked? When did I like them? Yeah, when did you like them? I joined a tribute band. I was just looking for a way to pay the bills. I was singing a lot of backup and a a bunch of backing like bar bands in Chicago. What city is this?

Chicago. Chicago. That's right. And I know you're sick of me talking about Chicago. I am. Sorry, man. Sorry, man. It's where the story takes place.

Okay. That's all right. Would you mind setting this story in a different city? Yeah. Would that be okay? Sure. Maybe Nashville or? Great.

Yeah. This was the Talking Heads tribute band in Nashville, Tennessee that I was in. Okay, good. And what were you eating? Go Sox Go Bears. Oh, just a big old plate of Crawdaddy's. I don't know what they eat in Nashville. I'm so sorry.

No, that's what they eat there. Okay, but it's certainly not deep dish pizza. No, never. Okay. And I joined this tribute band that was putting on... They were recreating Stop Making Sense. Like they were completely. How did you hear about him?

Was there an ad in the paper or what? You say you did it to pay the bills. Yeah. So this guy, Ray, he owns this cool bar called Martyrs, which is like a great rock venue in Lincoln Square in Nashville. And he knew his bartender, this guy Charlie, was putting together this band or had put it together already and knew that they needed additional singers and, you know, instrumentalists and stuff,

much in the same way that Talking Heads needed to flesh out their lineup in order to play Stop Making Sense. Okay. A lot of parallels. So you auditioned. They liked you. You got the job. We can compress some of this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I went to their apartment. It was three floors up. I rang the bell. But yeah, so they had me doing the Lynn Mabry part, one of the backing singers there. Yeah. And it was so insanely fun because I had to watch that DVD maybe like for 40 times probably because we were doing it like, it was kind of like cosplay. Like we were doing it like move perfect. Every note was perfect. We had like the lighting design. We did the shadows. Oh, incredible.

It was very like big and intricate. Yeah, it was really fun. I thought you were going to say it was like Cosby. Yeah, it was like the Cosby show. I played Olivia. Cosby cosplay. I was the child. It's the best.

Suddenly Malcolm Jamal Warner comes in with the mismatched shirt. Oh, just so many warm sweaters. Yeah. How long did you do that show for? Off and on. We probably did the full Stop Making Sense. I can imagine you stopped occasionally, but I mean, it would only last about two hours. Yeah.

Yeah, it was 75 minutes, but sure. And we did Stop making sense in full i probably did it with them six times but in between that we would tour and just do a regular talking head show where we didn't have to dress up we just played like everything in little like jam band towns all of the country i mean in stop making sense they're just kind of wearing like sweats aren't they yeah but it's really hyper specific like they're very specific shades of gray they're just kind of wearing like sweats aren't they yeah but it's really hyper specific like they're very specific shades of gray they're layered really specifically i mean tina weymouth has like an insane costume change where we discovered our basis jamie had to under like

she had to layer one outfit over top of another one to make the change you know weymouth's clothes and stop making sense are incredible i mean they all the outfits are pretty great, but hers are the coolest. Yeah, she's got those fishnets and the slouchy boots. It's so cute. Totally. So you did this for a number of years and it gave you an appreciation of the music.

Yeah, because I've probably performed that music as much as anyone. I don't want to say as much as the actual band, but like I've performed those songs so many times. Maybe though, I mean, they only did it a couple of years, you know. Yeah, and so I probably did it off and on for three or four years. And then the band kept going. Like I had moved to LA and they kept touring for a long time.

So they're still out there. Do you want to give them a shout out or? Yeah, they're called, this must be the band. They don't do tribute anymore. They have like original music now, uh, under the name.

I'm not interested anymore. Well, you wanted me to give them a shout out. You want me to shout them out or no? Reverse shout out. Take their shout out back. Suck it back in. They go by grid.

Look them up. The band's called grid. Okay. Um, I did it fast. So you, what was the first record that you bought from them? Does it stop making sense, I would imagine, or did you just watch the DVD?

No, I had the DVD and I listened, like I watched that over and over. The first record I probably bought, I think I probably bought the name of this band is Talking Heads. Just because it was like the first one I saw. No, that's the live one. That was like the first one I saw. No, that's the live one. No, it's the live one. It's from 1982 in between Remain in Light and Speaking in Tongues. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's probably the first one I got.

So did you go back then and go through their entire discography? Well, yeah, because it was weird because I kind of had this drop box of everything that the tribute band would ever play, which was pretty much everything. Like we got into the weird ones, you know, there were some songs that we didn't do a ton. Like,

you know, we didn't do a CNBC or like, you know, we didn't do moon rocks that often, but like we did almost their whole discography so I just had it in digital form divorced from any album you know arrangements I just had like all these songs and was just told to learn like here are the parts that you're going to learn on all these songs so I had this really like very performance-based relationship with all the music so then when I

would buy a record or hear a different recording of it or hear a live recording of it, it would kind of like jolt me. It was like I was hearing a new song. So you were doing the essentially the expanded live group that was put together after Remain in Light in order to play their more complex music. Yeah. When you would play the stuff that was from earlier on, would you adapt it to sound like the stop making sense sort of style in the same way that they did for stop making sense with some of the earlier stuff? Yeah, sometimes. And sometimes we just,

I mean, sometimes they toured without me and they had a pared down, you know, for money and finances and stuff. It was better to just go with fewer people, but that's, that's a good question. How much did you get paid to do this?

Um, one time. Don't answer that. Don't answer that don't answer that no no i want to be transparent adam this is how we know how much we're worth okay one time i did only get paid 60 but that was my fault because i spent too much uh like petty cash on like beer and stuff for the night yeah because i had like spent a bunch of money and so then when we tallied up at the end of the night it was like like, this is all that's left. I was like, OK, that's my that's my fault.

OK, so that's that's really cool. And then so it made you love their their music. And then how did you then get involved in the documentary now episode, which was basically if you't seen Documentary Now, it's Fred Armisen and Bill Hader's show on IFC that got all of the advertising money and none went to Comedy Bang Bang. Is that how you would describe it? Mm-hmm. Cool. Yeah, that was in the promotional materials, I think. That was in the promotional materials, I think.

I think someone forwarded it to me. And I think they said like a friend who was in the industry forwarded it and said, weren't you in like a talking heads band? This looks like something you should do. And it was just a call for a backup singer. It wasn't like, hey, you're going to be in a comedy show. And it was when we were doing Bajillion. So I think my friend was like hey this seems like it's for you because you do comedy and you do music and you were in this band and i like they just wanted a video of me like singing take me to the river or whatever and

what i did instead is i went and i cut footage from our our stop making sense oh that's such a good idea i was just like you guys you don't want anyone but me. You want me to do it. And not only did they hire me, they called me and they were like, who's your friend who's playing the other girl? Can you just like call her too so we don't have to keep looking for this role anymore? And did you or did you say, fuck, no, I'm not going to do that? Yeah, I said, fuck her.

Fuck Casey Foster. We're not friends anymore. Oh, that's so good. So it was essentially, if you haven't seen the episode, it was inspired by Stop Making Sense because documentary now they every episode was a parody of a different documentary. And so they did. It was kind of a talking heads ish band that Fred was doing the David Byrne role. Is that right? Yeah. And Bill learned to play the bass for that. He played all the bass on those tracks. Wow. Really?

Is there a, is there a, a, a, a, a, what do you call it? A soundtrack from it?

Yeah, they sold. Yeah. I think they put it on Apple music or something. Oh yeah. I know they, they sold tracks from it. I still have all the demos,

which is really fun. Cool. Because they're, the demos were so, well, we can't, I'll get in trouble. Okay. No problem. Well, that's amazing. And do you have any other connections to Talking Heads that we can talk about? I don't know. It feels like it's taken up a lot of my life and brain space in a way that is so strange to me but it feels so like come i don't know i

feel very like comforted when i think about talking heads because i just there's something strange about coming to it before you're really a fan and coming to it almost like you you work for them or you're in the band so you just develop a relationship yeah like i don't i'm not in the band i never thought that but i was like oh i'm part of their like franchise like i opened this weird wendy's i know how to make all the food you're like essentially the touring blue man group exactly yeah and it did feel like a weird hybrid between like almost theater and rock music um right and i can tell you that, you know, we can get into it when we talk about the album,

but there are some tracks that weren't, you know, that just didn't get reviewed well, like when the albums came out or whatever. And I can tell you that some of those tracks specifically

that critics said like, oh, this one's too screechy or too weird or whatever, playing them live in front of an audience is like the most insane experience because people go nuts like there's something very primal that happens to people with a lot of these tracks so if it's hard to get into

an album sometimes i'll try to see uh a band doing it live because sometimes that'll just make it come to life in a certain way because there's something that maybe the recorded version is missing or something so that's really interesting and nowwny, you're also a musician right now. And aren't you recording an album currently? I am. Yeah, I just finished recording it. It's being mixed now, which means it's out of my hands and I'm terrified. But we very much took a we tried to take kind of a remain in light approach where we sort of played everything in layers and are peeling back with things to kind of carve out dynamics. Sounds like that person who played Tina in your stage show, taking off the layers one by one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Pull off a sweat pant, reveal a fishnet. And you wrote on Twitter the other day that you were talking to your guitarist and there's something that you kept saying to him that he asked you to stop saying. Is that right? Oh, my very sweet guitarist, Patrick Martin. They're all back in Chicago now.

They came out here and recorded it at my house. And I had taught myself to like engineer everything. So I was feeling very like inside the music. Couldn't really like get out of it. Now it's in the hands of our mixer in Chicago. And Patrick and my bandmate Bethany are sitting in the mix with him. And I'm on the Zoom connection trying to explain what I mean. And Bethany and I just over and over are like, can you make this more like Adrian Blue? You know how Adrian Blue... Okay. So if you listen to,

I don't know, The Great Curve or something, Adrian Blue... And we probably said Adrian Blue 150 times before Patrick was like, I love you guys. I need another reference. This is not helpful at all. Just saying one man's name. Even if you say it 50 times, it does not. Right. And I was like, maybe if I gesticulate more. Do you think that Stop Making Sense would be your favorite album of theirs? Because of your experience, you know, like touring around with it?

Actually, Tawny, you told me that Remain in Light is your favorite. Is that right? I think Remain in Light is my favorite because top to bottom, I find it more listenable. But Stop Making Sense is definitely top to bottom, more listenable every year. Is that what you write in your anniversary cards? Oh, God. What is the secret to staying married? Hey, you tell me.

I guess you're married, are you not? Let's talk secrets during the break. Okay. Okay. Well, we do have to take a break. When we come back, we're going to talk about Remain in Light. Are you excited? This is your favorite Talking Heads album.

And is it safe to say one of your favorite records of all time or even in top 10 i don't know it's in top 10 for sure okay yeah it's got to be it should be in everyone's top 10 sure you think sure why not maybe is it in your guys's top 10 i don't know we'll we'll talk about when we get to it but we uh have to take a break when we come back we are going to talk with tani about talking heads remain in light we'll be right back with more you talking talking heads to my talking head about talking heads remain in light. We'll be right back with more of you talking, talking heads to my talking heads. Welcome back. This is the aforementioned Moon Rocks.

Seldomly played by whatever that band is that Tawny was talking about. I wasn't paying attention. We are back. This must be the band. Thank you, Adam. That's right. We're back and we're talking about Talking Heads album Remain in Light. All right, let's go through some facts.

Released October 8, 1980. album remain in light all right let's go through some facts released october 8 1980 mere a mere month before ronnie reagan was elected to be president of well the united states well well here we go again gee sc, Scott, I'm really happy to... Well... Meanwhile, Jimmy Carter, he was on his way out. I'm going back to my peanuts. And yes, I said penis, not peanuts. And then Bill Clinton came along, and he was right there with him.

It depends on what the definition of is is monica i need a lewinsky from you um in any case and then after that we had george w bush he was a real cowboy can i finish oh no way that's that's ross perot oh by the way i was listening to not gonna do it who. Who's that? Who's that one? Browse for out. No. I was listening to Paul Anka's album, 70s, released in 1970.

And the very last track on it, he is something called, I think it's like people or something like that. He's talking about cool people that don't get a lot of attention that should have more attention in the news. And he brings up H. Ross Perot. He's like, and there's this guy, H. Ross Perot, and he spent $3 million of his own dollars. This is in 1970. That's how long people have been talking about H. Ross Perot. Anyway,

he certainly did finish earlier this year his life okay so october 8th um we're talking 23 days before halloween and um this came out in 1980 and uh uh none of the three of us bought it on the day it came out so we we don't have to uh i didn't have the money to buy it back then yeah i. I was seven. So let's talk about this record. So when we, when we last, uh,

left off from the fear and music, uh, episode, uh, talking heads were in Europe, I believe. And they, uh,

Tina and Chris were in an interview and the interviewer said, so, uh, what are you going to do now? The talking heads isn't a band anymore. And they said what and he goes yeah i was interviewing david burn earlier and he said that he was never going to work with you guys ever again and they said well they never told that to us oh boy that's news to us so they all went back to oh they couldn't find him uh they they called his hotel and he'd already split and uh they all went back to, oh, they couldn't find him. They called his hotel and he'd already split. And they all went back to the United States and said, well, who knows what's going on with that?

Mr. Burns was working on a secret project. He was working on something with old sourpuss himself, Brian Eno, and he wouldn't tell anyone what it was, but he did ask Chris Farts if he could come over and play drums on the record.

So Chris and Tina basically were arguing at the time about whether they should break up the band or not. And Tina really wanted the band to be broken up. She's like, I'm sick of Mr. Burns's shit. And him and Smithers can go fuck themselves. Who is Smithers in this?

Is that Eno? That's Eno. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And old sourpuss himself. Slash Smithers. Okay.

I'm keeping up. So they basically, Chris really wanted Talking Heads to continue because it's like his dream to be in a successful band. And he loved it, right? So he's like, no, I don't want to break up Talking Heads. And Tina's like, fuck you and fuck our marriage. And basically, they almost broke up. They decide to go, I believe to, was it to Haiti?

Nassau. Nassau. They go to Nassau in order to undergo their version of marriage counseling, which is they got really into voodoo. And they did voodoo tribal ceremonies

where they beat drums a lot. And it saved their marriage. Wait, is this in the book? I don't remember this. Yeah, a lot of this is in their book and in a couple of books that I read. And so they saved their marriage and Chris brought Tina around to like, okay, we're going to keep Talking Heads going. Oh, anyway, I was going to say, Mr. Burns burns he's off with smithers working on this this secret album and he asks chris to come uh play drums on one of the songs wheel or something no this wasn't catherine wheel yet um so he asks this is

uh this is that burn you know album is yeah this Yeah. So, and we'll talk about that another time, but... My Life in the Bush of Ghosts. But Chris says, should I go do this? I mean, Mr. Burns is being an asshole. And Tina says, well, if we're going to keep Talking Heads going, yeah, you should keep him engaged and go drum on his record. So Chris goes over and drums on one of the songs on the record and kind of sees what they're up to.

And then at a certain point, and this is all according to Chris in his book, he says, like, it's kind of up to him to tell everyone, hey, it's time to make a Talking Heads record. He tells George Harrison this, and George Harrison is like, yeah, sure. I'm down to make another record but then uh they go to mr burns and he says no i'm not really interested i'm making this other thing with old sourpuss and so this is this is kind of adam what we were talking about last week this is where they trick mr burns into coming over because they're all jamming in their apartment and they

ask old sourpuss to come by and just jam and he's like well i certainly couldn't do that and they say come on just don't be such a fucking dick all the time and so he comes over and then they call up mr burns and they go brian's over here do you want to come jam with us and you just hear and just like but before mr burns's phone can drop to the ground he already is in their apartment like where's brianino where's brianino so they all start jamming and they what they're basically doing and tani correct me if i'm wrong on this but they they got very inspired by e zimbra on fear of music and they said let's make a whole album like that, where we sort of use polyrhythms, and we lay down grooves, and no one is writing music to Mr. Burns' songs that he

already wrote. We're just going to jam and come up with the songs here. So there are a couple of different versions of the story. One was that old sourpuss came to Nassau three weeks after they started and heard it and said, wow, this is unique record, I think, in the Talking Heads discography. Tawny, you were mentioning how they recorded it before. How did they do it? Yeah, so before it was very much like a frontman-led operation. It was like David Byrne would come in with written songs. He would come in with melody, lyrics. I don't know how much contribution they'd have once they'd have once

they'd all start learning the parts, but I could imagine from what we know of Mr. Burns, maybe not much. Maybe he kind of had everything sketched out in his mind and he was like, you're going to play a kick drum here. You're going to play this here. Just one kick drum. That's all I want. Yeah. One at the top and then you throw it out the window. So to ask someone like that because i can kind of tend to write music this way too just because i'm like okay i want to sit down i want to sketch it all out so that people have all the tools and then when we get together so you do that sitting contribute interesting standing music doesn't sound as good when you play it um so to have him come down and say actually what we're going to do is we're going to do these like monochordal jams.

We're going to lay down one track at a time of like just a groove or a riff, a guitar part. And, you know, this is all like analog recording technology. It's not like now with Pro Tools where you can lay down a groove and redo it a bunch of times. Yeah, and you can loop things and you can create like a groove. This is I'm going to sit down and for four minutes I'm going to play these, you know, this pattern. Yeah. Over and over. And then you're going to lay that on top of each other. And then what you really are looking to do is decide what the song is in the mix. And you start carving away. You start editing parts out for parts of it. And then like saying, okay, during this part of the song, we're going to have these instruments play it. And,

but if you notice every single one of the songs just repeats the same chord structure over and over and over again, where the melody changes and all the instruments change. Right. And so it almost like it's kind of like early trance because they were borrowing so much from like African polyrhythms and Fela, which is wild that they borrowed so much from Fela because those Fela albums that they were so inspired by, like Aphrodisiac, are so smooth. Like the polyrhythms are there, but like the saxophone, everything coming in, everything just feels like it glides and everything about Talking Heads is like jerky, bouncy. So it's just interesting to me that their interpretation of that is like such a pogo stick version of it. And would you say that's what's so innovative about this album in particular and why you like it so much is their kind of innovation in that area?

Yeah, I also think, you know, it was 1980. Like this is before this is what, almost 10 years before Graceland. So no major mainstream white musician had gone to Africa for inspiration, like in a mainstream way. So this is the first time and they had permission to do it because they were the weird white people. They weren't quite punk. They weren't quite disco. So it was like there was a permissive element for people to listen to rhythms like that from them. I mean, that's why it was a hit, frankly, and they're all really talented. But if that happened today, it wouldn't have the same impact because like music is so much more globalized, I think. Well, Mr. Burns came into this and he actually, weirdly enough, said,

hey, you know what, I'm tired of the lead singer getting all of the attention and having, you know, the majority of the responsibility in the band. And I really want to share it equally with all of you. So let's let's just do this album where it's everything is just done by the four of us and really the five of us because uh old sourpuss over there he decides that he wants the album to come out billed as talking heads and brianino that's right and he he wants it to be like a collaboration album instead of him just being the producer so so they went into it saying like okay all five of us are going to write every track we're going to split everything equally and this is going to be unlike any other talking heads album where most of them were just us doing david byrne songs we're going to do just like we're

going to create something out of nothing and use the studio as an instrument. But and then Brian Eno convinces David Byrne to change the writing credits as well. Yeah, well, we'll get to that because that happens at the end. Yes. So they. OK, we'll hold off on that then. Well, yeah, let's not talk about that quite yet. So in any case, they go down to Nassau.

They have a lot of fun. Robert Palmer, weirdly enough, he's not talk about that quite yet. So in any case, they go down to Nassau. They have a lot of fun. Robert Palmer, weirdly enough, he's like one of their neighbors. So he's out there like banging on spoons and drums and shit and singing in the background of this record. We also have George Harrison. He had been producing some records in between Fear of Music and this. So, I mean, look, if you can get a Beatle to produce your record, I mean, that's like fucking coup

right there. Do people get mad at you when you do this? Do people think that you don't know and yell at you on the internet? I would yell that. Don't know what? People would be like, you idiot woman. You idiot woman. This wasn't George Harrison. No, we're men. We know what we're talking about. Yeah.

Everything we say. If it's wrong, then it turns into a fact after we say it. That's right. All right. Okay. So what did Brian Wilson do after George Harrison played on the record? Exactly. So George Harrison was working with Nona Hendrix, a singer who people would know from the band LaBelle, who sang Lady Marmalade, the original version.

And he had been recording her record. And so he's like, hey, come on down, sing on this record. So you have her and you also have this guy, John Hassel, who we'll factor in a little later in Talking Heads story. He plays the trumpet. He came down and he'll have something to do with my life in the bush of ghosts uh down the road he came down and played some stuff so you have this uh great group playing down in nassau and um they're coming up with where is it sorry where is their trumpet on the record if the trumpet does not sound like a trumpet that's what this guy he plays

the trumpet and then uh puts it through a treatment oh he played it through one of those thingies yeah yeah oh so i think he's on the great curve i can't remember exactly which song he's on but uh maybe like once in a lifetime he's this experimental trumpet player and yeah so they they go down to nassau. They finish it up. And David, good old Mr. Burns, he says, I can't think of any lyrics. He has writer's block, right? So they say, no problem, David. Everything's so cool. They're like, go take it to New York and come up with some lyrics.

And everything's great. We love this record. And then at one point, Chris farts like he's out there. He's like sitting on the grass outside. And old S sourpuss comes outside and Chris is like hey man I just wanted to say I really appreciate what you did on this record it really wouldn't have happened without you I really appreciate it and Brian Eno just goes like I'm uncomfortable I'd rather not talk about this. And he walks away. This is according to Chris.

There are so many stories like that in the book with either Brian Eno or David Byrne where someone's just reaching out saying, hey, something sincere and thank you or whatever. And it's just not received in a comfortable manner. But hey, Tawny, you know I relate. Even in David's own book, have you read How Music Works? I haven't gotten to that one. I really want to read it, though.

It is... I love it, but man, there's a lot of stuff to get through of him just saying like, I had to figure out my unique movements

in precisely such an order. There's so much real estate wasted on him. Not wasted. Explored. Explored on him talking about how awkward he is on stage like he he's

very self-aware about it and it it's not easy to read well i definitely want to read i'm gonna end up reading all all of these books um so they go back to new york and mr burns can't think of any lyrics and so then they they call up your buddy tawny this is where adrian blue comes into play so adrian blue adrian blue we talked about him on the last episode where uh george harrison saw him in the crowd at a talking head show and recognized him from being david bowie's guitarist and said hey come up and play with us and so um they ended up seeing him in new york and said at a gig he was doing and said hey can you come play on a record? And it's not done. We don't have any singing on it.

And Brian Eno was kind of sniffily saying like, oh, the singing will come later. Who cares what it is? Brian Eno. Time for bed. And so Adrian Ballou comes and plays on a bunch of songs. And because there are no vocals, he has no idea where to play. And they just go, just pick places and Mr. Burns will have to sing around you, which is really funny. So he just lays down a part in certain parts of the songs and David Byrne has to sing around him, which is cool.

That's so cool, actually. I love that. I mean, especially because Ballou says that he went to the Zappa graduate school of guitar cool, actually. I love that. I mean, especially because, I mean, Baloo says that he went to like the Zappa graduate school of guitar theory, basically. Like he learned how to play all his weird-ass guitar sounds from Frank Zappa. So that's got to be like a playground to be like, here's a bunch of riffs. We don't know how it's going to sound. We don't know where anyone's going to sing.

Like it's a free-for-all. I bet that's why it's so good, because he just had total freedom. So finally, Mr. Burns comes up with lyrics basically by spouting gibberish a lot. That was his process. He would just do made-up words until they didn't sound made up to him anymore. And then he would listen to a lot of different sources. He listened to, especially for Once in a Lifetime, he listened to preachers on television. And he would just kind of imitate them and spout stuff until

he finally came up with lyrics which is really interesting and so uh yeah they finally came up with the record we should talk about the cover which was done by chris and tina because george harrison had done the um previous record they really wanted to design it and mr burns um they came to him and said hey uh we're gonna we're gonna design the cover and mr burns was like uh no this other guy this other guy's gonna do it and they said well why why'd you give it away we want to do it and he goes well he'll do it for free and um and they were like well no we're gonna So they went to MIT, actually, and this is the first computer graphic album cover? Yeah, some first computer graphics used on a record cover or something like that.

Yeah, so it's the four members of Talking Heads. members of Talking Heads and then they took a cursor and sort of put red over them to make it look like everyone's wearing masks. Right, because it's pre-mouse, right? So they had to do it. Just by hand, just dotting all these things out.

They did it with these people at MIT who couldn't get credit for it because they'd get in trouble with MIT. And then Tina took this picture of these uh bomber planes um and they they fucked with the computers with those and and the colors on them and that was sort of like a tribute to her father who fought in the war so they did the cover for it and they they give it mr burns finally relents and goes okay'll use your cover, but can my friend do the typography

and the typeface for it? And so they go, okay, fine. And they give it to him and he does the iconic upside down A. Like that's the one thing that he does, but then he charges them a fortune for it. And then in interviews afterward, took credit for-

The entire cover. The entire cover. The entire cover. The whole design. Including talking about why he picked the planes and all that kind of stuff. For this being one of my favorite bands on the planet, I am positive I would hate most of the people involved in it. It's just probably. Like Chris and Tina and Jerry seem cool and everyone else. I'm like, you seem insufferable.

Well, we don't know where, I mean, we weren't there. Obviously collaboration is difficult between any people, but Adam to picking up on your, what you mentioned earlier, when they get the cover back after,

after a long squabble with Brian, you know, where he wants more of the credit than they deserve and get. And at one point goes, I've never been so insulted in my life right storms off um and then and then uh talking heads manager has to go to him and go well brian if we call it talking heads and brian you know you don't want to go on tour do you and brian you know brian you know he's like of course i don't i don't want to go on tour and play in front

of people and they say well then we can't call it talking heads and brianino because everyone will expect you to be on tour with them and he goes all right that's fine i feel like brian you know likes the idea of music more than he likes music right because he claims not to even play instruments right so so they they finally say okay it's just going to be talking heads And they agree that all of their names, every song is going to be written by all five of them spelled alphabetically. And they go make sure that it says that on the cover. And then when the first pressing comes out, Chris and Tina are surprised to find that the credits now read all songs written by David Byrne and Brian Eno and Talking Heads. Of course. Of course.

And even worse on the sleeve, it says all songs written by David Byrne and Brian Eno other than these that also were written by Talking Heads. No, it says one song which is written by David Byrne, Brian Eno and Jerry Harrison. It leaves them out completely. And later they got talking heads. They went to Mr. Byrne and Smithers and said, guys, come on, you can't fuck us over like this. And they went, oh, that was a mistake,

or pretended like they thought it was a mistake. So in any way, for what started out to be a really happy, fun album for them to make, it really soured everyone on the group at the end of this. Can you imagine working with someone like that who just won't stop trying to fuck you over? Yeah, Adam, I can. Yeah, I guess you can. Oh, wait wait now i don't know who you guys are talking about never mind i'm looking at him right now oh shit what have i wandered into this is particularly galling because i mean stop me if this is obvious but like that credit issue is a direct fuck with of their money like that is a direct publishing like this means that people

who they license the song to or people who cover it, you know, and put it on commercials or whatever in the future. That means Chris and Tina get none of that money because technically all they're getting is like the mechanical rights, the player rights. Yeah. The performance. Well, they. Which is insane. It's insane. But I will say that perhaps it also goes the other way.

We'll find that out in a future episode. But let's get to the music. What do you say? Yeah. Yeah, that's what we're here for, guys. Music. Put all of that aside, let's get to the music. This album has eight tracks on it. Only eight tracks, and in fact, only three on the first side. Three longer songs on the first side and five on the second side. Let's go to the first track. This is Born Under Punches, The Heat Goes On. Take a look at these hands Take a look at these hands The hand speaks The hand never got an impact

While I'm a tomboy Falling to punches I'm so thin All I want is to breathe I'm so thin All I want is to breathe I'm too thin Won't you breathe with me? I'm a little space So we move in moving between And keep one step ahead of yourself All right, what do we think?

Tawny, obviously, you love it. I love it. You're bumping along. What do you like about this? I mean, I love those. Talk about the polyrhythms, right? I love how some of it's like very much four on the floor. How would you describe polyrhythms, by the way, for people who don't know what they are?

So an oversimplified explanation is. And I'm not talking about myself or Adam. We know what they are. We know everything about them. I know. You guys are men. You're men. You know everything.

So if there's like a four on the floor, right? Like that boom, boom, boom, boom. And then over top of it. Like a traditional disco beat, basically. Yeah. And then if over top of it you had something that was happening in three, let's say, going one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three. So I'll do the

four on the floor and you do the three. Okay. One, two, three, four. One, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three. Would people like listening to that? They do if it's done by the talking

heads. You guys should make a whole album of just that. This is like when I was counting to 34 with the letters. I kind of did. I played with this on that album. Oh, here's Adrian Ballou. Ah! This is what you wanted your guy to sound like. Just being a robot maniac.

He, like, processed this guitar through a keyboard or something. Yeah. But you notice the chords are not changing. Oh's here's sort of the the heat goes on this is nona hendrix and Brian Eno and Mr. Burns singing. Yeah, I feel like that because it doesn't change chords or change much, but so much is going on. It's like artificial movement, right? It's not giving you like, here's chorus here's a bridge whatever yeah it's perfect like dance music at the time yeah really let me see you dancing can you show me your your best dance to this adam well in the 70s it was a lot of finger stuff yeah right and this is 1980 and

so they started incorporating like more arms so people were doing a lot of this. Polyrhythms kind of introduced a whole different... So you were fingering a lot in the 70s, is that what you're saying? Well, I think there was just generally a lot of fingering in the 70s. Got it. And then by the 80s, you got your whole arm up there? Whole arm, whole arm. Cool.

Adam, what do you think? I love this very much, and I think it's a terrific uh album opener they open their albums very well i think it's like they're saying hey come on inside yeah here's a written invitation having a little party here yeah put your dancing shoes on because uh we're gonna we're gonna get this party started right like that's what they're going to get this party started, right? Like that's what they're saying to you. They do a really good job with, even though it is just like one chord pattern repeated over and over, you know,

there are just new parts all the time. It's a six-minute song almost, and the part that is essentially the hook and the heat goes on, that doesn't come on until halfway through. It's really pretty too. Like it a you know like legitimately pretty like it doesn't know how pretty she is you know it's you know what she takes off her glasses and lets her hair down and she's just like oh my god you're so beautiful but you don't know it you know right it's gorgeous yeah

um let's yeah let's hear hear track two. This is Cross-Eyed and Painless. Lost my shape Trying to act casual Can't stop I might end up in the hospital Did you guys play this, Tony? Yeah. Way to ask for a question in the middle of a long gulp of water. Sorry. Yeah, we did the Stop Making Sense version, which is a little different, but yeah. Oh yeah, they play this at the end

on the track. Yeah, so in Stop Making Sense, Lynn and Edna sing that part that David's singing right here, which changes the song completely, I feel. Yeah. Let's hear you do it. You really want me to do it? Yeah. Okay. Do you want me to wait until it comes around again?

No, do it right now. Isn't it weird? Sounds too obscure to me. Sounds awesome. How's that? Great. Yeah, this Stop Making Sense version is great. And your version's good, too.

Oh, okay. No, it sounds awesome. Sounds so cool. What do you think, Adam? Love it. Tawny? Love it. This is a tough one to find a clunker on.

This is a great album. Coming up is the rap section, which came about because Mr. Burns was having writer's block, couldn't quite figure out a melody for this section that he had written lyrics for. And according to Chris, he said, Hey, man, have you heard Curtis Blow? You should rap this, bro. He said, have you ever been stepping in a rhythm to a Curtis Blow?

I liked that section better before I knew it was inspired by, quote, rap. Yeah, I know. Although, what was first? Was Blondie Rapture or was this first? I feel like they were around the same time.

Wasn't Rapture 1980? And this was 1982. Let me look it up but i'm looking it up who can look it up faster uh this came out uh three months after rapture came out i mean three months after remain and light came out so but very simple shit very similar steel in there yeah like just kind of like but but when i was a kid and I first heard Rapture for the first time, it was like crazy. It sounded so unique. Not because it sounded like rap, because when Talking Heads and Blondie tried to do rap, it doesn't sound like rap.

It just sounds like white people talking, you know? Like, they thought rap was talking, not talking in rhythm or anything. It sounded more just like early Euro-industrial. It sounded like can or new or something, where it's just like talking over grooves. Adam, what were you going to say? I was going to say I remember it as well, the rapture coming out,

and it just being the most exotic, insane thing. It just sounded unique because no other song had someone just kind of telling a weird, funny story, but it didn't sound like rap. Right. The first time I ever heard rap music, I wasn't like, oh, just like Blondie did. No, it sounded new to me. Right, right.

Yeah. Here it is. Yo, to me, this does not scream out hip-hop. This is real hip-hop, Adam. Real hip-hop. From the streets. Great song. Fantastic song.

That kind of closes Stop Making Sense. I mean, they come back for the other stuff at the end. Do they do it in a medley with Izebra? No. Well, Izebra's in the bonus content on the DVD. So I don't know when chronologically in the show it was played. Maybe they do it Izebra and The Great Curve. I can't remember.

I think they do it a melody of those two. Right. But speaking of The Great Curve, which is what I say when I look at Kulop. That's how you keep the magic after all these years, huh? Here we go. This is the great curve. Sometimes the world has a load of questions Seems like the world knows nothing at all The world is near, but it's out of reach Some people touch it but they can't hold on She is moving to describe the world She has messages for everyone is um tani tell us about the great curve the great curve is another fantastically layered polyrhythmic song that borrows lyrical inspiration from more African shit.

You know, the world moves like a woman's hips is a very, sounds like it's lifted straight out of some kind of a Yoruba folk tale. Yeah, I think it was, I think it was lifted from, well, the water part was lifted from, I have it right here. Rhythm and African Sensibility. That's from Once in a Lifetime. Sure. But they lifted a lot of these kind of ideas. Remain in Light, they still don't know where they heard that, but old Sourpuss was reading an African book that he never told them what it was.

He said, I think it should be called Remain in Light. Is this Adrian Ballou right here? This is Adrian Ballou, yeah. That is Ballou, yeah. Doing those elephant noises, for sure. This was from African Art in Motion. Is the woman's hips part. I wonder if that was written by someone from Africa or not.

I love this album so much, I like have the same, I love this album so much and I have the same struggles with it that I do with Graceland where I'm like, there's just not enough direct credit being given to the actual story. I want to talk to you about this afterwards because, not after the episode, but I do want to talk to you at the end of the episode about this because

that is a slam on the record that I read a little bit about that I want your opinion on. But let's go to to talk to you at the end of the episode about this because that is a slam on the uh on the record that uh i read a little bit about that i want your opinion on but let's go to uh the rest okay so that's the end of side one and then side two starts sorry how long are these songs the first one's like six minutes then five minutes and then and then this one is six and a half so this is a 17 minute side so far it's like a pretty kooky album. Would you guys agree with that? Oh yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What else, man? What else? What else? What else?

Keep it going. Keep it going. I did want to say quickly that the Rolling Stone review when this album came out slammed Great Curve because it said it was too screechy and that's the one that i was referring to earlier when i said when you play it live people lose their minds like it is the dance number i mean too screechy having the ability to play that live i can only imagine the crowd going fucking crazy oh yeah that would be incredible um well here's a song that makes everyone go crazy this This is definitely one of Talking Heads' most iconic songs.

This is the lead track on side two. This is Once in a Lifetime. And our theme song. I never noticed until just recently in the studio version of this, the vocals on. When they happen, let us know. You can hear it right now. It's like someone going.

Maybe you would stop saying it. I could fucking hear it. If I shut the fuck up. Oh, yeah, yeah. Dude, that's good. That is, everyone knows this song. That is one other thing that I wanted to mention in the drama making this album.

So they used their engineer that they had used before. He flies down to Nassau and after three days he quits. Because there's two different versions of the story. One version he comes to Chris and Tina and goes, Brian just keeps erasing your parts, Tina. Oh, that's right. On the record. And I'm sick of it so i'm quitting and then

in chris's book he says that he came to him and said um brian keeps erasing anything that sounds like pop music um and you guys could be the biggest band in the world but he keeps erasing everything and so i'm fucking quitting and he quits. But wasn't Brian erasing her parts and re-recording them? So that's the other thing. When the whole record is done, they get a new engineer and all that kind of stuff. But when the whole record is done, the one last thing they do after all the singing is on and all that is

the engineer comes to Tina and says, Hey, Brian and David re-recorded your bass. And it sucks. And it sucks. So do you want to just re-recorded your bass and it sucks. And it sucks, so do you want to just re-record it? And so she laid her own bass over their re-recording of her bass. Maybe what they recorded

was just them going, ba-da-ba-ba. Yeah, exactly. Ba-da-ba-ba. And Brian Eno's still credited with, has a bass guitar credit in the credits. Yeah, insanity.

Well, this is obviously one of their great songs. Tawny, how do you feel about it? Removed 40 years from its release. I love it so much. It gives me chills every time. It's beautiful. It's weird. It's epic.

It gets people to weirdly dance. It's a song where when you play it, people will both be dancing, and then right next to them someone will just be standing there like absorbing it yeah it's like five songs at once my nerdy bit of trivia about this is that this is one of the first tracks in modern like mainstream modern music to use an artificial echo chamber and i love weird bits of like recording trivia like that because echo chambers were starting to kind of go out of fashion because you had to like have them built and have them perfectly done so i wonder if this of weird bits of recording trivia like that because echo chambers were starting to go out of fashion because you had to have them built and have them perfectly done.

So I wonder if this studio in Nassau just didn't have one. Do you mean that they computerized echo on it or something? Is that what you mean? Yeah, so it's the first synthesized echo, which now everyone has on GarageBand. Oh, crazy. That's interesting.

Yeah, it was one of the first times. Probably not the first time ever but the first time on like a mainstream release this uh weirdly enough was the first talking head song i ever heard because i saw the video for this uh in 1983 i believe um when i used to watch that uh video video one show in the afternoons and uh you guys have seen the video for this, I would assume, where he does all the classic moves and all the strange dance moves. That was choreographed by a woman that Mr. Burns was dating at the time named Toni Basil. Oh, wow. Who people would know from she sang, oh, Mickey, you're so fine.

You're so fine. You blow my mind. Hey, Mickey. She was a choreographer and an actress. She was in Five Easy Pieces. And she and Mr. Burns were dating. And he then broke it off with her and started dating another choreographer,

Twyla Tharp, which we'll talk about later. What about this as opposed to the Stop Making Sense version, Tawny? Which do you prefer? Or do you have a preference? Oh, I like the Stop Making Sense version, Tawny, which do you prefer? Or do you have a preference? Oh, I like the Stop Making Sense version because there are more voices doing all those harmonies.

Yeah. My favorite shit is not when David's backing himself up. Like, I love his voice out in front, but I want the different textures of other people. So that's my only quibble. I agree.

I like that other version. I mean, this is terrific. It's a toss-up for me, I think maybe because I knew this version before any, before seeing Stop Making Sense, but I do love the Stop Making other version. I mean, this is terrific. It's a toss-up for me, I think, maybe because I knew this version before seeing Stop Making Sense. But I do love the Stop Making Sense version. Okay, let's go to the second track on side two. I think we could suffice it to say you like them both.

Yeah, I guess so. If you really want to boil it down that way. So are we three bears-ing it? You're the in-between bear? Sure. You're the lukewarm bear? What do they call that bear? Yeah. Yeah, lukewarm bear and What do they call that bear? Yeah.

Yeah, lukewarm bear and steam bear. Yeah. The country bear. I'm Shaq, who played that genie. All right, this is Houses in Motion. Motion? Motion. Motion.

Did you guys play this one, Tony? Yeah, this is a banger. Is it like those banger sisters? Yeah, the banger sisters. Adam, why weren't you in that movie? I got that for a DVD of that for Ham for his birthday one year. That reminds me, Zach Galifianakis kept trying to give me a DVD of A Wrinkle in Time when we were working on the Ferns movie. Like, he kept slipping it into my possessions.

Because I think he got, like, five of them sent to him by the studio or whatever. And he just kept, like, and every time I would see it, I'd go, fuck this, and I would give it back to him. But he kept, like, just slipping it into slipping it into my bag every once in a while. Sorry. We want to hear the song. Here we go. I'm turning around in no trouble. You know this is nothing. I'll rob you, rob you. I'm only alive. We fight in this song.

Never get to say much. Never get to talk. So this is a banger, Tawny, according to you. I think so. Adam, what do you think? Yeah, I like it a lot. It's not my favorite on the record, but I like it a lot in the beautiful big chorus.

It's rad. Here's that beautiful big chorus. I like my choruses big and beautiful, guys. I like them big and stupid, as Julie Brown once said. Big, dumb choruses. I think it's the one track on the record that actually accomplishes being funky without being jerky, like perky-jerky.

So it doesn't have that kind of Franz Ferdinand, angular, like whenever you'd read a review of Franz Ferdinand, it would always be like, nervous and angular, or same thing with talking about... Yeah, frenetic. Yeah, this is just more of a groove. Oh, this is the horn playing. Oh, is that a horn?

Oh, wow. Speaking of elephants. Yeah. Were we talking about elephants? We should. Hold on, hold on. Is this an episode of Speaking of Elephants? Yes.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Speaking of Elephants. This is Scott. And this is Scott. And, of course, we have a special guest here in the studio today. First time ever doing an episode, Tawny Newsome is with us from Spaceforts. Hey, what's up? I never forget. Spaceforts?

Spaceforts in Star Trek's Tiny Desk Concert. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Were we speaking of elephants? Yes, we were. Earlier we were. I think Tawny brought up the idea of elephants. Just brought it right into the convo. I was talking about elephants as an instrument. You ever used an elephant as an instrument? No, but I've used an elephant's instrument, if you know what I mean.

You mean the penis of an elephant? I chopped off his cock and I use it as a dildo. Jesus Christ. Wow. Oh, my God. It's dark dildo jesus christ wow oh my god i think this show's gonna get canceled oh it just was bye oh my god controversial first step yeah, but going out with a bang. Yeah. Banger sister. Yep.

Oh, I would love to go out with a banger sister. Oh, my God. Between Goldie and Susan. Oh, I know. I think they're taken. I went over to Goldie's house once. That's a story for another time. Was she house sitting?

At her own house? Yeah, I guess. If you call hanging out at her place, house sitting. Sure. Was she house-sitting? At her own house? Yeah, I guess. If you call hanging out at her place, house-sitting. Sure. Are you house-sitting right now? I mean, we're all house-sitting.

I mean, yeah. No one else is watching this place. Let me tell you, when you sit around the house, you sit around the house. I've never understood that joke. Have you, Tawny? I don't quite get that.

Is it a fat joke? Does it mean you're so big you can be on the outside? Like, your mom is so big when she sits around the house, she sits around the house, meaning. But your mom is so hollow. Yeah.

That is such a snap. I think that's what it is. Your mom is so hollow. All right, let's go. This is track six. This is seenen and Not Seen. You would see faces in movies, on TV, in magazines. Hey, it's more rap.

And in books. He thought that some of these faces might be right for him. This one's not my favorite. I gotta say, I don't like it that much either. But Tawny, this is one of your favorite records of all time. Can you not like a song on it? Oh, yeah. I mean, you ever heard me talk about Stevie Wonder?

I love songs in the key of life, but Village Ghetto Land's a Baroque downer. You don't like Village Ghetto Land? Hold on, hold on, hold on. I got to find Village Ghetto Land. Oh, it's harpsichord downer bullshit. Hold the, this is sacrilege. I know. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

Let's find Village Wonderland here. Village Ghetto Land. Village Wonderland here. One second. Village Ghetto Land. Village Ghetto Land. What? This is insanity. I know. But look, I'm honest.

But I mean, it is a good question. Can you not like a song on one of your favorite records? I mean, Adam, have you ever, like, what's one of your favorite records? Like, Automatic for the People. And there's Ignoreland, I used to not like at all. Skip ahead. Wait, Village Ghetto Land, that's track three on, hold on, we gotta hear this, hold on. I know.

The strength of the rest of the album is so good. This is great! You think it's just a depressing dirge? We're just... Yeah, well, the lyrics are very depressing. And I've never loved a synthesized harpsichord. I've never been into that sound. Oh, I love this song.

What a melody, though. Yeah. You guys are fools. We're fools. Adam, do you want to kick Tawny off the show? Well, wait, she can't hear us right now, right? No, she can't hear us. Do you want to kick her off? I was thinking about it.

Like, I was thinking, huh, we should totally kick her off the show. We should. But at the same time, I feel like maybe we shouldn't? Just as, like, another idea? You're probably right. We'd probably get canceled with cancel culture and all. Oh, my God, cancel culture. i'd like to cancel this song surprise i was listening the whole time what you could hear us whoa shit erase erase erase okay so we don't like seen and not seen

for whatever reason i'm not really into into uh word songs. They're my favorite. This is Listening Wind. This is the second to last song on Remain in Light. Very top-loaded album, as it turns out. Yeah. Got the weird ones at the end. Yeah. I do love this one.

This is very Eno. You like this one a lot. Yeah. Let's hear a little bit of listening wind. Let's listen to that very wind that is listening itself. Let's hear it. Moosh sees his village from nearby hell Moosh thinks of days before Americans came Moosh sees the foreigners in growing numbers

He sees the foreigners in fancy houses He dreams of days that he can still remember Moosh holds a package in his quivering hands Moosh sends the package to the American man Softly he glides along the streets and alleys Up comes the wind that makes them run for cover So, Tani, you love this one. I love it. I used to listen to it on every plane I got on. This is my takeoff song.

Oh, interesting. Wow, that's cool. When would you press play? When I start to feel nervous. press play? When I start to feel nervous. Oh. So not like whenever you felt the plane lift up or

whenever... Usually a little before, like end of taxi. Calm yourself? End of taxi? That sounds like a... Wait, what's the taxi theme? Hold on, hold on. Now I gotta play the taxi theme.

Hold on, hold on hold on now i gotta play the taxi theme hold on hold on I'm going to play this the next time I land and then text. Yes. And the plane will just go, wow, what an ironic choice. Yep. Yeah, I'm going to play it out loud on the boombox I bring aboard. Like, say anything. Yep. This is a jam. This is kind of a banger, too.

This would fit right in on Remain in Light, don't you think? Yeah. A few more jangly bits. A few more angular, nervous. Yeah. Phrenetic, disjointed, uncomfortable. Uncomfortable. I love that description of my music. Bum-bum-bum-bum-bum.

Meow. I'm doing the MTM noise at the end. Alright, back to Remain in Light. That's Listening Wind. You really like it. It calms you. Adam, what do you think? Yeah, I like it. It's not my fave. Interesting, interesting.

I love the first six, no, sorry, the first five songs on this record, and I'm iffy on the last three. But 65% of it, I love. But it is, like you said, top-loaded. I've come to enjoy this last track. This is The Overload.

Let's hear that, and I'll tell you an interesting story about it. Oh, I like that. Here we go. Let's hear that, and I'll tell you an interesting story about it. Oh, I like that. Let's do it. Did you guys play this one, Tony? I never did. I wonder if they did on shows that I wasn't on, because they played for years, you know? I can't imagine anyone wanting played for years, you know? I can't imagine anyone wanting to hear this when they go see a Talking Heads cover band.

I feel like Trent Reznor just built his whole life around this song. Well, okay, so let me tell you the story as we listen to it. So this is according to the book, This Must Be the Place. This was because Talking Heads read about Joy Division, and they read about the style of music Joy Division played without ever hearing Joy Division. So they decided to be inspired and write what they thought a Joy Division played without ever hearing Joy Division. So they decided to be inspired and write what they thought a Joy Division track would be. Well, they got pretty close.

They got pretty close, but then Mr. Burns listens to actual Joy Division and is disappointed and doesn't like it. Likes what he made better. Yes. He's like, I like my Joy Division better than Joy Division's. I'm confused at how they'd never heard Joy Division. I know.

Well, I mean, I think Joy Division was only around for like a couple of years, you know, and mainly more popular in the UK by the time that he had, let's see, what's a better way of saying this? By the time he quit the band, the lead singer, I think it was 1980 when he committed suicide. So I think like... Yeah, maybe they weren't. But at the same time,

these guys were in the New York art scene. I think they would have put on one single or something. Yeah, you think they would have crossed paths, but... Anyway, as a Joy Division song, I don't mind it. As a Talking Heads song, I don't know. It is a wild way to end an album. I realize that when I think of this album, I think of the deluxe version with all the outtakes,

but this, I don't feel like I've ever heard it, like I've never put on a vinyl and just listened to it where this is the last song this would be an insane way to end an album like this well a lot of people really love it though it's like their favorite track on this record no I do love it

it's just a bizarre choice this is their favorite track on the album well also a lot of people I think love the diversity in it of like oh wow it has these cool dance songs. And then it has this kind of song that I can just like trip out to and put on. I mean, that's what an album is for, is to take you through a journey, I guess. Yeah, a musical journey.

I guess I've never really been able to get into it, but I know people love it. But it is a little strange, Tawny. I mean, this is one of your favorite records of all time. But it is a little strange, Tawny. I mean, this is one of your favorite records of all time. And yet it seems like you like, much like me, the first five songs. And you like Listening Window, too. I like Listening Window a lot.

And I do like this one, but I don't think of it as the last song. So I think that colors my appreciation. So there are, on the deluxe edition, there are four kind of unfinished songs. Actually, one of them is an early version of once in a lifetime is any of these strike your fancy you want to hear a little section of either fellas riff or unison or double groove um i mean i like double groove i guess fellas riff since we talked so much about fella cootie okay here we go this is fellas riff this is they never finished this this is just a track. We'll listen to a little bit of it and talk. But I think this is a good segue talking about Fela Kuti,

whom we talked about when Talking Heads first met Old Sourpuss. He popped on a Fela Kuti record and said, This is the music of the future, which is what made Mr. Burns like him so much. But we were talking a little bit, and I said i wanted to follow up with you about it because i read an interesting article uh in the new yorker about the singer uh angelique kuji uh sorry no angelique kijo Angelique Keejo, who covered Remain in Light, did an album-long cover of it. Have you heard that, Connie? No. Is this an African artist? This is an African artist, and it was talking about a live performance she did of the record

before she put it out as a record that Mr. Burns came and joined her for. And it was talking about how when this record came out in 1980, it prompted questions of origins and ownership of influence and appropriation. And I hate for this. Is this an episode of Yo, Is This Racist? It is not. It's not. OK, we're not doing that. Andrew's not here. and you guys have ads that's the big difference um but yeah what you mentioned that you don't know quite how to feel about it what uh what are your feelings on it well yeah i mean i'm definitely not

one of those music purists that's like you you know, white artists shouldn't cover African type polyrhythms or whatever. I believe in the blending of music and that's how you create new genres and sub genres. And that's why. Yeah, I mean, that's just how music works. But not to quote a David Byrne book. David Byrne book. But what's interesting to me is I would, you know, for all of the influence that the heads say that Aphrodisiac had on them, Fela's album Aphrodisiac, I guess I just wish that people knew that record as well as they know some of the heads records, because if they were influenced by them so much and they, you you know talked about how they were trying to emulate it and do all these things like them like it's just the you know we always like shit when it

sounds a little more white in america like we we love african rhythms if we just round off the edges a little bit and just just whiten it up just a little bit and make it a little more like you know comfortable and safe and you know put it under this veneer of like oh it's this avant-garde weird punky pop band that's doing it that's why it's so strange as opposed to like no it's just black people in the 70s that make music that sounds like this um so sometimes sometimes people would say like oh well this is creating a bridge between cultures where someone may listen to the talking headsads record and go, wow, I really like these rhythms and then go investigate rhythms and records that they never would have in the first place. That's sort of the people who are, or Graceland, you mentioned Graceland.

Paul Simon always tried to sort of give equal credit to his musicians and sort of, you know, tried to sort of give equal credit to his musicians and sort of, you know, tried at least to make them like as famous as he was, at least as far as a music fan like me, who was pretty much only interested in like, you know, new wave shit when I was growing up. It did make me aware of them, at least of their name and stuff like that. That said, I never bought any of the records. But what do you think about that? I think for people like you and like me who will go that extra step and dig into the influences and discover who those people are, that's great.

And I don't blame the artists. I don't blame Paul Simon or or David Byrne for, you know, borrowing from these traditions. It's more like but for the casual fan who only knows, you know, diamonds on the soles of her shoes or whatever, and has no idea of the story and isn't really going to dig into it. It's just, you know, it's a bummer to me that those people aren't as famous as Paul Simon. Do you think that Talking Heads should have done more to credit some of these people? I don't think it's a thing of should. I think it's just like, I mean, it was already such a weird bridge that they were, you know, just having such an integrated band on stage, playing to audiences who were more diverse than most rock audiences. I think they were already doing a lot and they weren't really concerning themselves with the political of it.

I mean, if we're talking shoulds, like when Paul Simon went and did Graceland, there's very strong political evidence that he should not have gone and done that record at that time. Like South Africa was in absolute unrest and having a huge American rock star come over and make it look like everything's fine and a great place to make a record was not the best look. It's a fantastic record that I would never say shouldn't have been made. It's just like, what's the, I don't know. I guess there's no should. It's more just like, I wish the world was different. Well, these are definitely thorny questions. Yeah. I don't know what the right answer. I mean, it's the same thing as when Malcolm McLaren took essentially this record of African polyrhythms that was kind of popular amongst producers and then turned that into Bow Wow Wow and Adam and the Ants. Like that was a record that was from Africa that he essentially taught white people how to play that. And it became very popular. I have never heard any of those original bands and I'm super into the Adam and the ants and bow wow wow versions.

And that's kind of a shame, but, uh, but then, then, you know, I did want to mention this Angelique Kijo album. She is an African singer who then is sort of trying to take it back.

That was her thing. She's, she's putting, uh, her spin on the remain in light record. And record. And what's interesting about that is it's the first album I bought from her because she's doing the white version of African music and it made me interested in it. So it's like the first record I bought from her. So and I guess I think you hit it on the head. Like if if it went that direction as often as it goes the other direction, everything would be fine. And it would just be like sharing and collaboration and it'd be beautiful. It's just it's it's heavily loadedino you just said because that sounds really interesting uh k-i-d-j-o um well let me play a little bit of it as we go out um and uh it's it's really good it's a it's a really good cover record and in fact the last three songs that i'm sort of iffy on i may like on her version a little better huh oh interesting but uh yeah in any case tawny this

is great thank you so much for yeah thank you so much for doing it. Thank you so much. This is all I ever want to do is talk about Talking Heads to your Talking Heads. Well, we'll see you next week. Oh, wait. You can take my place. I'm sick of Adam's fucking shit, to be quite honest. I keep walking in the middle of whatever you guys have going on. Well, the one thing we should say is to leave off the story, Talking Heads finished the record.

It came out and they suddenly wanted to tour with it, but didn't know how they were going to do it because the four of them couldn't play any of this stuff. So we'll pick up with the story next time with how they ended up doing that. But let's hear a little bit of Angelique Kijou's album. Let's hear Born Under Punches as we go out. And Tani, it's been great. Thank you so much. And let's hear a little bit.

This is Angelique Kijou. All right, we'll see you next time. And until then, we hope we found what you're looking for. Bye. Bye. Take a look at these hands Take a look at these hands Take a look at these hands