UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP 126 In Depth with Jason Sands part 1

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

Famous whistleblower, Jason Sands, joins Stephen Diener for the first time on UAP to discuss his infamous face to face encounter with an ET along with untold details of his time working within secret military programs. This is just the beginning of a new in depth look into his incredible claims... See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Everybody talked about it since I first moved to Oregon. The big one, the earthquake that trashed the whole west coast, total destruction. Officially calling it the largest natural disaster in American history. I just didn't know what would help me next. So I took it all. Even the gun. It was time. Selo?

American Afterlife, presented by pair of thieves, the number one fiction and drama podcast in America. Listen wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Available now. In a place like Los Angeles, people don't stop being who they are. Writers, thinkers, creators, people with stories still unfolding. That spirit lives on at Kingsley Manor, a community shaped by individuality, creativity, and lives well-lived. So when the conversation turns to what's next, it isn't about stepping away.

It's about continuing the story. Explore your options at kingsley Manor.org, a nonprofit month-to-month-month-seemannor.org, a nonprofit month-to-month senior community within the Front Porch family. Welcome back to UAP. Stephen Dean are here with you, as always, on the Unidentified Alien podcast for this brand new episode, the start of a two-part series, actually.

But for now, this is episode 126 of UAP. So happy to be back here with you. And what for me, at least, and I hope for you, has been a very long-anticipated experience. I finally was able to sit down with Jason Sands. And this is a man who I think, we've all been become pretty familiar with over the past year.

And I've developed a relationship with Jason Sands over the past year since he came out to the public about his story. An incredible, in some cases, maybe even unbelievable story. And I don't mean that like, I don't believe him. I mean just like, wow, I can't believe this, about his story with an encounter with an extraterrestrial on the Nellas range back in 1994. and again pretty well known at this point I believe you know his appearances on Julian Dory on Billy Carson on Joe Rogan as well as being in James Fox's documentary of the program so his story is pretty well documented about that encounter with the extraterrestrial and you know the resulting things happening from there so ever since Jason Sands came out last year to the public to tell

you know his story to everybody and become a whistleblower um which has essentially you know blackballed him, really, when it comes to his, any, you know, getting any government jobs and getting any clearances. I mean, he lost all that. I think that's something that's not brought up a lot. I didn't really bring it up in the interview, but I think it's worth mentioning just to put it out there before we start and where he's coming from, because this is a guy that had decades of service in the Air Force and within, you know, the intelligence community. And he decided to come out for the greater good, in spite of himself and in spite of any, you know, future of his well-being, uh, to come out and talk about his experiences.

What he did experience with that meeting with the, uh, extraterrestrial, his experiences, his experiences in the program when it comes to different bases, what was happening at those bases when it comes to, you know, uh, advanced craft and non-humans. So he's a very fascinating person with an incredible story. And it's up to you if you believe it or not. That's always the main thing here on UAP. Some people have been staunchly against. What Jason Sanzas had to see in the past, other people are very much for it, and they believe where he's coming from.

So what I've wanted to do for the past year was have him on the show. We've had many conversations behind the scenes. We did do, I think, a two-hour Twitter space one time, something like that. And that was maybe about eight months ago. But I really wanted to have that one-on-one experience with Jason Sands and just go super in depth on everything. And even some things that he hasn't touched on before in previous. interviews. And I'm so happy that we finally got the opportunity. Schedules aligned. The planet's aligned to where we finally were able to make this happen. And that's what we're going to do today is part

one of this interview. And I was actually very pleased with how this went. There was some twists and turns that it wasn't expecting, but I mean that in the best way on how some of these conversations went. Now that's what I love about doing interviews. I can have the questions. I can have ideas. that said, I was actually really happy with how the winding road of conversation ended up going between Jason and I, and I think you're going to enjoy it as well and find something's really fascinating.

We touched on a lot in this part one, and I keep stressing part one, because this is the longest interview I've ever done. It was over two hours. It was actually close to two and a half hours between Jason and I and that was in one sitting, but I thought to myself, let's go ahead and break this one up. I know some people say, oh, just put the whole thing

out there, but I prefer to break it up. I think it's better served that way. That's just my style, so hopefully you enjoy it. But what you're going to hear in this part one, we do start with that one year anniversary. It was just this past weekend for Jason Sands, one year anniversary of his coming out party, if you will, going public with his story. So we talk about that a little bit and how we both experience that, what led up to that for both of us. And I think it's actually the first time I got to tell Jason about that my side of the story, what led up to him coming out where I was when all that happened. And also, we do get into his encounter. So I did want to

cover that with him. Again, I know it's been covered before, but I wanted to ask it in a couple of different ways. So we talk about the feelings behind the encounter for not only him, but the extraterrestrial that he says he came in contact with. You know, what was being felt? Because he said that he could feel what the ET was feeling in that moment as well. They had this telepathic connection that was established. We get into that. We get into Jason's relationship, a strong relationship with David Grush. They're pretty close behind the scenes. So we get into that and the conversations that they have had when it comes to Jason's

encounters. And what Jason showed him one day that David actually wasn't surprised about, which I was shocked about. So you'll hear that as well as some of the details about the extraterrestrial itself. You know, where did it come from? Where was it going? was it here? And also more of just that behind the scenes, you know, encounters, some of the things that really wanted to put out there with Jason that I think you're going to find really interesting,

such as subterranean bases. How many are there? And all that stuff is actually true? Yeah, it's true according to Jason. He does explain to something that was very controversial about 20 and back. And that was a program that a lot of people, you know, it's a hoax. It's not a real program. And Jason got in some unintentional hot water when he mentioned that when he responded to a question about that. So I let him kind of clear the record on that. And I think that was a very important portion of this interview. So you're going to hear that part as well. And some of the darker things, the darker side of the retrieval program.

Jason's been doing a lot of work with Jake Barber as well as David Grush. And you're going to hear a little bit about what Jason experienced as being part of some of these darker side of the programs that you don't hear a lot about. I was kind of weary about getting into that portion with him, but we went there and we touched on it, so you're going to hear that point as well. And so much more, his relationship with James Fox, why James Fox threatened to walk out of the interview when they were on Julian Dory. There's a lot here. And I actually learned something new about how put off and what he told James Fox, which

I'm going to react to in some of the post thoughts. So that's just kind of setting the table. there's a lot in this first part of the interview. So that's some of what you're going to hear. Stick around for afterwards, just a little bit of post thoughts, post-conversation thoughts after this first part right here on UAP. Boy, it is jam-packed.

So I'm looking forward to you hearing it. I won't talk anymore. I'll get right to the interview. Now on this long-awaited episode of UAP with myself and Jason Sands. Part one here. Enjoy. Well, I can say that I've been waiting for this day for a long time. Highly anticipated for myself and I hope highly anticipated

for you. Jason Sands, finally, I can say that he is on here right now on UAP. Jason, thanks so much for coming on to the show. Yeah, thanks for having me, Stevens. It was a good day to get out there and talk to you and reconnect. That's good. Absolutely. No, I appreciate it. And I'm looking forward to this what's going to be, what we hope to be a wide-ranging interview to go over a lot of topics here together. And I guess we'll start off. You know, I actually like to start off before we go back to the beginning. You celebrated an anniversary this past weekend. It's been a year since you came out to the public about your story, right? Yeah, yeah. I hadn't realized it until some of my friends

were like, hey, it's your anniversary. And then they planned a space for me. I think that Sarah Bond and some of the other folks. And that was fun, yeah, because we just kind of went over and remember reminisce about some stuff. I got to rattle on about create many things. It's incredible. Yeah, it was fun. Man, how time flies. And I can just tell you how I experienced that real quick. And then we'll talk about that story that it's been a year since you came out about. Because I'm not sure, I think I've told you this before, but I don't remember if I have or if I've even mentioned the entire story on the show before. But it goes back actually to December

of 2003, where a mutual friend of ours, who goes by the name of Anthony Williams because he doesn't reveal his real name, but I know you know who that is. He let me know then that, hey, you might want to keep an ear out for someone named Jason Sands. He's going to be part of this documentary with James Fox, and he has quite the incredible story about meeting, you know, an alien face-to-face. I said, excuse me? Okay, I guess I'll wait to hear about that. And then it went silent. I mean, you kind of went into, you know, incognito mode for a few months while James was working. on that documentary. You know, you weren't really on those community boards so much anymore.

And then all of a sudden, you know, in April, late mid-April, I wake up one morning. It was a Sunday morning because I remember I was getting up to get ready for church. And all of a sudden I checked my phone and it's just blowing up about Jason Sands comes out to the public. I'm like, oh my gosh, he announced it. And I was actually relieved. I got to tell you, Jason, because Anthony Williams, I had been talking about you behind the scenes, and we were both kind of worried, like,

geez, I hope he's okay because, you know, Anthony hadn't heard from you in a while. And then you came out, and we were both actually, I got to tell you, our initial reaction was relief because we saw you came out so we knew you were okay. But then I was just like in shock from then on, like, wow. I knew that was a paradigm shifter at that moment where Jason Sands came out that Sunday morning to say, here I am and here's my story. So now here we are a year later and we get to talk about it. It's, um, it's, it's been a journey.

It was quite a decision just doing that last April as well, just, uh, or 2023 and 2024, just crazy. Um, the way that I initially didn't want to go public and then I ended up going public. That's been a story worth telling, I guess, for a while. And yeah, just had other people that, you know, I know and love, you know, like James Fox, Courtney Markersani. They all had a hand in that. And Anthony as well, knowing some of the stuff that was going on behind the scenes. Yeah, I didn't like having to disappear, but I had to, because I still had some other wickets to legally go through.

But once those were done, I got my ability to go forward. So I guess looking back in retrospect, everything ended up perfect anyway. And the annals of time, it just kind of balanced out. Everything just happened correctly and it turned into a great thing for everybody. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Everything worked out the way it was supposed to, it seems, and it's still going. So I do want to get into some of that stuff a little bits in a second, but first, I want to jump backwards to that point in time when you did get to come out and tell your story. I think most people are pretty up to date when it comes to your story. I mean, you know, you told it on Joe Rogan, you told it, you spoke about it on Billy Carson, which, by the way, thank you again.

I didn't get to do this publicly with you. I know we said it privately, but thanks again for the mention on Joe Rogan as someone who's, you know, support you behind the scenes. So I appreciate that again. Of course. Yes.

So, but on that story, on that note, what are some of the sticking points that you think kind of stick with people? When you look back on that, you know, being in the Nellus Range, coming across this extraterrestrial, I mean, what do you think some of those points are that really still really,

still resonate with people as you continue to go through now a year later? I think mainly the telepathic portion and how it affected me for the rest of my life. I've had a lot of really great discussions about the way that it changed my life and the realization that number one, we're not alone. Number two, just the feeling I got from this individual, this entity, it was. you know, so peaceful and civil, respectful. And yeah, that really affected me. And I think that's led to a lot of other conversations with folks that are very curious about that.

And I think that's one of the biggest things they ask me about nowadays is that aside from the golly gee whiz, yeah, I met this guy in the desert kind of thing going to work with that one day. That seems to be the part where it really opens up a lot of discussion because we're talking about actually not just the the event itself, we're actually talking about the content of the contact and what did that really feel like. And I think that brings people closer to, you know, what it actually is like. And I think that's a good thing for people to kind of get an idea of as we go forward with the phenomenon and everything that we're going to learn about NHI as we go through the next few years and hopefully get some disclosure too. Yeah, hopefully. And I know we're going to talk about that a little bit later on too.

Just a reminder again, Jason, what year did the meeting in the encounter in the desert happen? That was 1994. I believe it was October. Could have been a little bit earlier, a little bit later, but it was definitely bitterly cold that morning. So, yeah, it was 1994 in the winter. And so is that one of those things when you talk about the telepathic connection? Has anything like that ever happened to you since where you still feel some type of residue? if you will, of this telepathic connection that you had with the extraterrestrial that day?

Yeah. As I've said in other spaces, that it felt very natural. It felt very much like he was feeling the same emotions as I was, just much more controlled, I think. And so there was that little nuance that I knew that if it was a more controlled sort of mental piece of the conversation or, more stable emotional part of the conversation it was coming from him so that's how i my litmus test has been ever since then that you know if i get these like intuitions or little bits of wisdom it's helped me tune into that a little bit more and i don't know if it's residue from him or the collective you know or god uh because god also speaks to our souls like that he knows your your heart

in your mind and everything else. So I think it falls in line with a natural phenomenon with who we are, but at the same time, it leaves behind a very profound impact, both in my life and other people that have come forward and talk to me about their experiences. And likewise, they say it was very profound as well. And there absolutely is a very spiritual side to this that really doesn't get the spotlight. very often, but that's kind of how it affects people. And I think that's the one thing that carries with me.

Now, if I felt it again, I would say that I've had missing time, yes. And that was in, what was it, 1999 or 2000, I believe. I had another UFO sighting on the way to work when I was working in R.A.F. Milton Hall in the United Kingdom over in England. and yeah there was some telepathy there and I definitely felt that so yeah I've had that experience more than once I believe it's happening to a lot of people actually but it feels like you know that little inner voice that people talk about you know kind of and seeking wisdom and things like this you know and yeah I think that

these beings and God wants us to connect to that knowledge and body of wisdom because they see us as being children and we need to seek that out. We need to realize that we don't know everything and we need to, you know, understand also that this wisdom, according to what the scripture says, is that it's right there. All you got to do is ask for it. And a lot of people say that even if they're not believers, that the same thing there, that there's an Akashik record kind of a thing where you can tune into it. to it and get, you know, wisdoms and information that perhaps you didn't really have beforehand.

So, yeah, all those things are all telepathy and how I would describe how it's affected me and others, well. Yeah, there's a lot there, actually, that I want to touch on today when it comes to the spiritual aspect especially. I know you haven't really got to dive into that as much as you've wanted to in the past, so we are going to do that today and how all that kind of connects. You also mentioned the Mildenhall incident. I never knew about that, so I want to ask you about that as well.

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Dealer inventory may vary. See your participating Toyota dealer for details. Event ends March 31st. Toyota, let's go places. I want to jump back to something you said when you're giving the answer in that you said you said you felt like you and the extraterrestrial both felt the same way. And you felt that way through this telepathic connection that was established. So what is that feeling? I mean, how were you feeling and how do you think he was feeling as well? I guess the best way to describe that is that most people think of telepathic beings as being

kind of like a Marvel comic book type character that these people are invading people's minds and ripping memories out of them or controlling them and getting them to do awful things. But it's not like that at all. I'd like to contrast the way it feels as being more of a communication type that if you and I grew up in a world where we could hear each other's thoughts, that's what it feels like. We would grow up as infants and we'd probably be just like our children are when they learn their language and speak it to their moms and dads, their family friends. friends, you have to learn the etiquette, you have to learn respect, you have to earn, learn all of the ways that people discuss things. And as you know, some of the ways that we communicate are affected by our emotions. I mean, when we're angry, we tend to speak a certain way.

When we're happy, another way for loving, same thing. So all of those things are a part of the conversation and part of the telepathy. So that's how I would describe what I've learned about it and how it's affected me. Were you guys scared at all? Do you feel like you were both unsettled? Like, I'm seeing you, you're seeing me, this is really strange type thing? Like, was he as confused as you in the moment, do you feel like? I definitely felt at the very first part of the conversation, a little bit of trepidation from him and myself both.

I was much more out of control emotionally because I was getting ready to freak out, literally. When I walked eyes with him, that was the most disconcerting part of the realization that I was standing in front of somebody that I didn't know where this person had come from, other than the fact that they weren't from Earth. And yeah, that's a very scary thing, is to stare another intellect or intelligent being in the face and know that they're not human. There's a certain kind of fear that's primordial, I think, that came out of me. And, yeah, I was about ready to freak out, but I've said it a number of times.

I'm glad he started talking after that initial trepidation. But, yeah, we both felt a little bit of, you know, he didn't know me, I didn't know him. And this was our first attempt at, you know, discussing things. And I think he felt how fearful I was becoming. And because of that, he began the conversation. knowing that it might calm me down. So in that moment, I mean, how did you know that this was an extraterrestrial? I know you've spoken about some of the facial features, the color of the skin before.

I mean, I guess what I'm asking is, how did you know this wasn't, you know, a deformed soldier or a soldier who was injured, possibly, who maybe got out of, you know, some type of ward? I mean, what led you to believe that this is not a human being? Well, definitely the telepathic portion of the conversation was a big, big factor in that realization. Yes, his facial features also were a big factor. And he himself, you know, when we were locked in that mind space, I knew he wasn't from our planet. It could tell that he didn't consider where he was as being his home.

So there was all those things that were very glaring for me to know that he was not a human, that he was from elsewhere, that he was here perhaps working with humans, but that was not where he was from. And those are the kind of things that I definitely got the impression of very early on. But, yeah, the fact that he wasn't a mutant human, definitely because I did initially think that might be the case. when I saw that his ears didn't look right and his eyes didn't look right, but they were perfectly symmetric.

Most mutations in human anatomy and biology are not like that. You'll see one side looking totally different than the other side. Or there'll be, you know, a mutation a certain way on this side, and on the other side there'd be, you know, like maybe a completely different looking earlobe.

Because he didn't have any ears, correct? He had bigger eyes and didn't have any ears. Am I getting that right? Well, it's just kind of like, you know, if you can imagine all the folds of your ear, just instead of the skin pulling and the cartilage pulling your ear away from your skull, it just took all those folds and pushed it onto the head onto the skull. So you still see these symmetric sort of folds. And that's what I noticed is that looking at both of the sides, I was like, oh, they're not mutated. These look natural.

They just don't stick out. For some reason, in his anatomy, the ears don't need to stick out. Interesting. Yeah, and I think I've had some of the scientific people, I think, like Moneypenny has had some thoughts on that recently, where she came to some realizations that perhaps their sensory organs and, you know, that being sight, sound, you know, all those things smells.

they are on a different plane. Perhaps they're able to detect higher frequencies, lower frequencies because of the way their anatomy is set up. And even the way they view, you know, their eyes sense light. The same thing to be said. And that's what some of the scientists have been telling me is that it kind of makes sense that their ears

would not be sticking out because of, you know, they're looking, you know, they're able to receive these other frequencies, it would cause modifications like that in anatomy. Yeah, it's really interesting. And just some of the basic questions, Jason. I mean, the who's the what's the where is the wise. Did you get any type of indication on where he was from and why he was here?

Yeah, and that had to do with the lunchtime that day. After we had the encounter and went up to Black Mountain to begin our operations and spin up all the systems and things to get ready for the exercise and do our daily job. I went up there and I had missing time during lunch. I remember having a very strong compunction as cold as it was to go outside and eat my lunch. I remember walking out and coming back. I don't remember what kind of happened in between. I've only got like little flashes.

And the flashes that I have memory of and I provided David Grush with was a star map. This map has been in my head from that lunch hour. I don't know how it got in there. But I didn't realize it, but there was actually residue telepathically. imparted information in there. And until David started interviewing me, I didn't really realize that this residue data was just sitting there in my mind all these years.

And when David began asking me very detailed questions about, well, this missing time and this image of the star map, and it was like being asked, is there any significance to any of these stars? Say, I think David pointed out, what about the big red star that you have here? in the map that he provided. And at first I was like, no.

And David was actually telling me, do you even know what this constellation is? They're asking me? I'm like, no, I don't. I have no idea. It's just been in my head all these years. And he was like, well, this is the constellation Leo. I'm pointing out this regulus is the red star in it.

And I'm asking you about that red star. And he said, do you know anything about that? And I'm like, well, no, initially. but then almost immediately this flood of memory came back. And I've never really talked about this, but David was there, and I began crying. And I was very saddened because I remembered that the Red Star had a story behind it, and that in very ancient days, according to whatever this memory was that this person gave me about his home world, is that he was from Regulus and that this red star expanded and burnt his his home world completely out.

And the reason I was crying, though, was that it was tinged with this huge amount of sadness. And his, you know, that was relayed to me. It was kind of like a heritage thing for him and his people to remember that day when their planet died. because some of their people stayed on the planet and they died there. That's what they wanted to do. They wanted to die on their home world and other people didn't want to die there and they went on to some of the other exoplanets that were nearby and colonized those. But they literally were kind of watching over their loved ones that were going to die that day.

And it's like a celebrated remembrance, kind of like, you know, D-Day is for our World War II vets. kind of a thing. There's a lot of emotion involved in that, and that's kind of what I remember being just flooded with, and that's why I cried when David asked me, because I didn't realize that all those memories were there suppressed all that time.

And it just something in the way he asked just triggered all that flood of memory. So, yeah, very strange those kind of things, but yeah, that's where I would say he's from, and that's how it happened was during this time of, you

know, my lunchtime and having some missing time. I think I did meet him again as I walked down the hill. Maybe he came and picked me up or met me again and had a deeper discussion about things. But I don't remember much of it at all. Wow. Wow. I didn't know that. I'm curious, Jason.

What was David Grush's reaction when you told him that? He actually said that, yeah, he's. interviewed other people that have had similar experiences and that some of it does have that sort of residue memory from telepathic contact with these beings. And so he just kind of said, yep, I've heard that before, kind of a thing. Wow. Then he said that, yeah, that he said that it does happen. Wow. So he wasn't surprised at all to hear that information from you. Right. Well, I think he was surprised to hear that about this particular case for me because I hadn't really told anybody about it.

And it was literally just only between he and I when he was interviewing me that this came up. Right. I didn't expect that. I mean, I was at work when I was crying. Even my coworker was like, what's wrong? You know, it was just like, I don't know. I'm having some kind of a breakdown or something. I don't know.

But Dave was right there, you know, and he just kind of walked me through. He kept me calm. He had me, you know, tell it. And it helped. You know, just getting it off my chest was a help, you know. And then he went on to tell me, he just said, Jake, do you know that there are exoplanets that are recently discovered? I mean, you're only talking like within the five to ten year span of time.

We've even known that these exoplanets are around, reculous. And he said that these are planets that we now suspect are habitable. And he said, do you believe that maybe he's living on one of those? And I kind of thought back on the flashback of the memory, and I have the feeling that, yeah, he does. that's one of those exoplanets are, is his own world. So according to your experience then, Jason, because this is really interesting because, you know, there's always been the question of where are they coming from, right? Like Dr. Michael Masters has spoken about, you know, professor from Harvard, I believe, where he's spoken about the future humans theory or even, you know, the subterranean theory or under the water or interdimensional beings, right?

And one of those, those are all theories that people put out. And maybe it's, maybe it's not exclusive. Maybe those are true as well. But in your experience, we're talking about actual outer space, like interplanetary travel. So how do you, and maybe this is just your own idea, or maybe you had some type of feeling toward this answer. So, you know, you answer however you feel is, you know, most appropriate. How do you feel they get here? I mean, how did that extraterrestrial get here?

Do they just have advanced, you know, traveling mechanisms? Is it wormhole? is, I mean, what do you think they're doing to be able to go back and forth and traverse space the way that they are in your experience? I think there's some parts of physics and quantum physics that we are yet to find more about. I believe in the way that I understand, even from that day in the desert, that I had the feeling that it was almost like walking out a door back into another one between their world to ours, that's kind of the technologies they are capable of, where they can open up a quantum gate or a portal and literally walk from their planet to ours. And that's the kind of feeling I have with it.

That those are the kind of things. I know a lot of people talk about, you know, space flight and things like this. I believe that that's another thing. but I think actual spaceflight is sometimes slower than some of the other technologies and require resources because some of these spaceship craft are interstellar. They have to have huge amounts of power, you know, resources and things like this that have to be set up. And I think that, yeah, that's going to be something that we're going to have to discuss more in depth as to what sorts of powers and or fields of energy can provide this sort of,

of time space jumping. And I think another thing I find very telling is that they finally, I think, timed how quickly entanglement occurs over great distances. And they said that it's much, much faster than the speed of light. And I think that is very telling also that there's something there in that quantum field and that entanglement field that if it's that fast, I mean, up until now we've only been talking about light being the fastest thing around. But now we're hearing that entanglement occurs even faster than that. And we're talking on orders of millions, if not

trillions of times faster. So this is a very good time to be into science, I think, because I think we're opening up some doors that we've been either programmed not to open or it's just pseudoscience, but now it actually seems to be science. So I'm glad to see that we're getting into that field a little bit more in depth. And I think we're going to discover some really great things. Just absolutely fascinating. I love having these discussions and talking about what's possible. What haven't we discovered?

You know, we say we're really talking about some type of quantum world that we have yet to fully grasp, whether that means, you know, like you said, some means of interstellar travel with entanglement or we're talking about portals or we're talking about teleportation and warping. I mean, there's so many questions left unanswered, but the theories are out there. And, I mean, it's just so fascinating. Last question on this, because there's so much more I want to get to with you. Why do you think he was here? And why are extraterrestrials in your experience, you know, for anybody who doesn't believe it or might believe it,

maybe you're in the middle, you're trying to figure out, is this actually happening? working under the assumption, under the theory that this is happening. Why do you think he was here and why do you think they come here in the first place? He definitely gave me the impression that he was working in the program. Obviously, he had experienced something he didn't like and considered them barbaric. In his mind, whatever altercation he had with them definitely gave that impression to him that he did not like them. because of something they had done and he found offensive. So the secret military, you know, installations and the branches and what they're doing behind

the scenes in the program, he was a part of that, didn't like what was going on. Yeah, and I think that goes along with why he was wearing a military uniform without any insignia on it as well. Because I've had deep discussions about that as well, that, you know, was this his way of trying to, you know, look like one of us? And I'm like, no, I think it was more just, that was his work uniform. him. And, you know, why was his craft damaged? Well, it sounds like he was in an altercation. Maybe they shot at his craft before it took off, you know. All those things are possibilities, but I think he definitely gave the impression that he was working there at Dreamland before I met him. And before his craft was seen on range, I think he came right out of Dreamland. Some were working there.

So we're talking about government cooperation as to why some of the these extraterrestrials might be here is kind of one of the answers maybe yes I believe that's probably the case is that yeah there there are the ones that are here of course are going to serve in some sort of service or work role because they have to maintain their craft I know that they don't like to share their technologies with the humans so I met that that leaves the onus of them repairing any damages to their craft or anything else to them And in this case, it definitely seemed like an altercation because if they are doing maintenance and his craft was damaged, he definitely didn't want to go back to Dreamland to get it fixed.

So he wanted another alternative to fixing his craft. But on top of that, that also gives rise to the fact that what was he doing there to begin with? Well, to me, I think he was working with us or working with other NIH in whatever work roles that they have in their society. to do things. I mean, some of them may be just as mundane as we have, where we have people that we hire to clean our houses. We have people that maintain our cars. We have people that do our gardens for us.

All these are possibilities that they are doing up there, you know, but they may be more technologically involved with those things that they do. Their work. You mentioned Dreamland. Just for anybody who doesn't know what that is, can you explain Dreamland a little bit more? Well, yeah, that's Grum Lake. It's the program, you know.

It's the one that's right there in the middle of the Nevada desert. That's what I'm talking about. And this all took place within Nevada, New Mexico, this encounter? Yeah, this was Nevada that was right there by Quartz Mountain, near Quartz Mountain between there and Black Mountain is where we were traveling at the time. Yeah. So it's kind of been the, if you look at the map of the Nellis Test range, It's probably kind of just a little north of center of the map and definitely a little bit west of the center of map too.

So that's about where the encounter occurred. I've got a map that I showed at UFOCon and I've circled it where Quartz Mountain is, and that's about the location where it is. And so if they publish the UFOCon slides that I built for that talk that I gave, that map will be part of it. And I'll try to post that up maybe on my ex account or something as well. Yeah, very cool. And we'll give out, of course, your accounts at the end of our conversation

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Go to Shopify.com slash UAP. That's Shopify.com slash UAP. Is that what we're looking at Jason? Because so much, you know, theory, so many theories have been out there when it comes to area 51, you know, Dulce base, you know, all these different areas. You know, like you just said, the courts range there. Are we talking about subterranean bases, and that's where a lot of this stuff takes place?

I've personally been in two or three of them. I know they exist. The two that I was in seemed to go down at least five or six levels. There could have been more. But yeah, they're both there on the Nellas Test Range. There's another one at Wright Pat. And there's some in California as well. Vandenberg?

Is that one of them? Yeah. Wow. And I mean, the reason why I bring up Vandenberg is because there's just been so many stories out of there. Yeah. I mean, over the years, so many stories out of Vandenberg. I spoke to Jeff Nusateli a couple of times here on the show, and, you know, he's going to be a part of the new Age of Disclosure film that's coming out. And he had an encounter, a couple of encounters actually at Vandenberg.

And so that's just something when you mentioned California, that pops right into my head. So these aren't things of myth. These aren't things of urban legend. and these subterranean bases really exist, and you've been inside them, and they really have these programs there. Yeah, they really do exist. It's a great way to, you know, keep some of our tech hidden from our own enemies and adversaries that might have satellites and overhead assets.

They can take pictures of Groom Lake and places like that. So it's lucrative to have things underground that, you know, that are very hard to detect. So it's a dual purpose, right? I mean, because like you said, it's our own advanced tech, but also these programs take place there where we're talking about interspecies cooperation and reverse engineering programs, like, you know, Bob Lazar type thing with S4. Like, is that what we're talking about with these? Yes, you are very much so. There are some very striking videos of UFOs disappearing into mountain ranges like the Catalina Islands. I think there's another one in Peru that another person claimed that they saw one going in.

into. There's all these strange other mountain range like Mount Shasta, places in, what is that one mountain range up in Alaska as well. There's another one there. Yeah, and there's a guy that actually has video of this side of the mountain kind of opening up and something flying into it. It's incredible. Who runs these? Is it clandestine military operations? Are these black programs? Or is this funded by the Pentagon? I mean, where does all this come from, Jason? I think the The NIH have had plenty of time to build these facilities for themselves. Now if there's a human contingent to that, that probably was an add on or modification to that. Once the military got involved, perhaps there's some places where they have a mutual mission type or a set of, you know, studies and research labs that interests both the NIH and ourselves.

So I think that involvement in being that way, at least my impression, of what that relationship is like with the NHI. I think that there may be some joint bases between NHI and our military. However, I don't think there's a lot of it. Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, do I have this backwards? I mean, we've always thought about, you know, we had these bases, you know, and alien cooperation is happening there. And I guess that's the case still in some areas.

But are we talking about bases that were built before we even? started to mingle with with extraterrestrials like we came to their house is that how some of this works yeah honestly it's written of in in many many ancient histories about you know all sorts of underground things going on uh and you even have in the bible you know when god calls up lucifer himself in heaven and says what have you been doing lucifer replies to him i've been going up and down in the earth. You know, so even you have in the in our own scripture in the Bible that this, this is, there's underground places and caverns that they have access to. I think that that is kind of the, the feel I have for it as well as that, yeah, there's probably a lot more

under the crust of the earth. You know that we haven't got, we haven't penetrated much more than a few miles or a handful of miles beneath the surface. Right. And keep finding life, even at those depths, you know, places where we thought life couldn't exist. The same way when we got to the Mariana Chinch trench, we were like, oh, this is too highly pressurized, there's too much volcanic activity, nothing can survive, and then we go down there, and not only are they thriving, there are actually gigantic versions of smaller versions that are in the, the shallower parts of the ocean. And I just found that very kind of striking that, you know, there's.

so much that we have left to learn, even of our oceans, that yeah, I would suppose that these beings have had that capability for many, many hundreds of years. And, yeah, they've had, imagine what we could do if we had the most high-tech construction companies available to us, and we wanted to, you know, have a secretive base under the ground, you know, give us 100 years, man, we could have quite a lot built in that 100 years. And that's kind of what I think we might find is that these beings have been here a very long time. And that, yeah, they've been in places where we can't really access. It's wild.

Yeah, that's my opinion anyway. So with your time in the program, Jason, and if there's any point, by the way, where this becomes a little bit like, oh, wait, I don't want to go there. Please let me know. Because I do want to go there. And if you don't want to, then that's fine. but when it comes to some of the, I guess, darker portions of this. Yeah. Some of the things that even James Fox wanted to shy away from.

Yeah. When we talk about, you saw some pretty wild stuff. I mean. Yeah. It all, most, we had a good discussion about this yesterday as well. And aside from my actual experience, I'd rather just talk about it in general. and that in general what's happening is you're hearing from me and you're also hearing from Jake people like Jake Barber that the retrievals is a very messy business.

You're talking about people showing up at these retrievals unexpectedly. There's no deconfliction. Sometimes there's another nation that happens to get there first or second. And there's gunfire according to what Jake Barber himself has said, aside from my own accounts to this, you have NIH that are surviving these crashes, and they are in survival mode and willing to kill some of us to survive. Because they know what's going to happen to them. They're going to get imprisoned. They're going to get interrogated.

They're going to get dragged through the muck until they give up some kind of technology to this program. They themselves are scared half to death about all of that and how they get treated by. us. So retrievals is what has caused this darkness, I think. That's where the greatest area of trouble starts. Is this the messiness of retrievals? Because you've got all those factors. You've got, you know, NHI trying to run away and survive, any which way they can. some of them just allow themselves to get captured as well but most of them are just scared themselves they're just like well my life's over who pretty much is what you hear from these people that have said that they've been part of those as well those types of

encounters and you've had like firsthand encounters I mean is it do you want get into any of that or I mean even outside the Nellis range when you had this encounter with the one extraterrestrial like being part of the program, you saw some pretty deep, dark stuff with humans and extraterrestrials and, you know, it's part of like working together. And it's very strained. I know that the, it's obvious that there are some races that are willing to work with us at a certain level, but it's very managed, very controlled by the NIH. They're not going to help us build a nuke. They're not going to help us build death machines with the technologies. So it's a very, you know, tenuous relationship with even those beings.

And then there's the cadre of beings that don't want anything to do with our military program. And they're the ones that end up getting captured a lot of times and imprisoned. And I think that's what Jake Barber would probably tell you as well as that, yeah, he was ushering them from the down location of where the crash site was and taking them to a drop zone area to be picked up. and processed. And sometimes these beings are out running around already, just like you heard from James Fox about Virginia, you know, and stuff like this, where these beings are literally trying to run away from us

and save themselves from being captured. And then they get captured, they die, they get mistreated, or we don't know what to do with them. And then all of a sudden the military shows up and says, okay, everybody shut up, we're taking this stuff. You talk, we know who you are and who your family members are, and all the threats start flying. I think that's a huge travesty. I mean, we're talking about probably the greatest story of contact being messed over and time and time again by this heavy-handed

military BS portion of this. We would treat a downed Russian aircraft better than that. We would treat a downed Russian aircraft better than we treat these NHI. I mean, put it that way. Why do you think the secrets continue to be kept, Jason? Why they continue secrecy from these, you know, black sites and government programs and military programs? It's the same mentality as back when in the McCarthy era. Everything's a threat to the military. Everything.

You know, even if it's high tech and it looks like it's a medical marvel, they'll look at it and go, oh, we can build a weapon off of this. Yeah, we can do this. And, you know, it's always this horribly uncouth mentality, I think, that has pervated this program. And because the military managed to put the lid on it very early on, they liked it that way. It kept everybody out of their hair. It kept everybody out of their business. And they got to pick and choose whatever they like.

And now they've gotten very comfortable with the level of authority that they feel they have. They don't need to even talk to Congress anymore. They don't even have to talk to our president for crying out. This is how haughty-taughty they've gotten about themselves. They are literally, if there is a cabal of darkness out there, it's them. This small cadre of people that are probably in leadership roles, and it's not the whole program because there's a lot of scientists and good people and patriots in there, too.

But there's this cadre of people that make horrible decisions on behalf of humankind, as if they're the gods. and it's like these people are probably the ones that need to be reviewed for their decision making and prove without a shadow of a doubt that they've saved actual human lives and not killed them and murdered. And I don't think that they're going to, I don't think that their future would bode very well if they ever got assessed. Wow. So kind of cover your own buts mentality maybe a little bit more.

Yeah. Yeah, and I think that maybe some of them regret what happened, but the decisions were made, and maybe not by themselves, but somebody that preceded them. And now they're left holding the bag, you know, and they're just carrying on with it. And it's like, well, thank goodness, we don't have to tell the world about all our screw-ups, you know. But at some point, there's going to be a day of reckoning. And I think that day is going to come. And it's going to be unfortunate if they haven't at least tried to listen to what I've been saying.

and some of the other whistleboards are saying, look, guys, you've got to get over yourselves. There's a better way to do this. Maybe if you showed the kinder side to your military thinking, maybe, just maybe, some of you won't have to go to jail. You know? I want to switch gears a tiny bit and ask you about some comments that's a year ago, pretty much,

that you made about the, the fabled 20 and back program. And I think there was a lot of confusion, and there still is today, about what you said about the 20 and back program, because I know a lot of people say that that never existed. It was debunked.

And Jason Sands says he was part of 20 in back, so that means he's a liar because it never existed. Can you elaborate on that a little bit and explain some of those comments that you made early on about 20 and back, which essentially for anybody who doesn't know, if you can explain a little bit about what that was reported to be as well. Well, I think the best way to couch it is to say that I didn't know much about 20 and back.

You're talking about the very first space I ever even spoke publicly. I was just answering question after question right off the cuff. You're talking there was no prep time. There was no research time for me to go back. Oh, wait a minute. Give me an hour. Let me look at this 20 and back question you just gave me. All I understood at the beginning, and even at the end of that, that entire five-hour block of me talking publicly about 20 and back was that it was some kind of a mercenary program that somebody claimed to be part of. And I was thinking to myself, well, the guy asked me, were you part of 20 and back? And in my mind, I'm thinking, well, there was a dirt.

I had to do some dirty work, yeah, that was kind of mercenary-like. So I was like, yeah, yeah, I guess so. And that was my response, but that was also me, being ignorant of the fact that this guy had lied about what 20 back was, that he made up the term and coined the term himself and all this other stuff. I had no idea about all that. But thankfully, later on, in that same evening when I was giving my first rendition, the part that people conveniently leave out is later on when it came up again about this 20 and back, I said, we didn't call it 20 in back. So right then that debunks anything that all these jerks have been saying about. Oh, Jason's a liar because he said 20 and back.

He said the words. He said the words. And I'm like, yeah, I didn't even know what it meant. And I actually told you later on in that same evening that we didn't call. There's no title called 20 and back that I know of. So between those two comments that I made, people should be able to put two together unless they're just freaking morons. Well, I'm glad you I wanted to give you that time to clear it up

Because I think that is still something that people do refer to And they say, well, he said he was part of 20 and back Which Repeatedly have done that. I think I've heard 20 times Even from the same people that I've told them What I just said, look, you understand That I didn't know what it meant Number two later on in that same discussion

I said it wasn't called 20 in back And yet they keep on repeating and repeating It's their broken record like I said these people are morons. I have no time for them anymore. I've tried a number of times to correct their errors and they refuse to correct themselves. It's just like your kid saying they didn't take the last cookie out of the cookie jar. They just have to keep on lying and keep on lying. And that's what they want to do because they don't have a purpose in life, I guess. Yeah, hey, look, fair enough. I wanted to give you your piece on that. I'm pissed. Let me tell you. Kind of a little wrestling promo here. No, no, like I said, wanted to give you your time on that.

So I'm glad, you know, appreciate you answering honestly and from the heart. But with that, though, I mean, 20 and back for anybody who didn't know, it's basically like an interstellar mercenary program. I mean, is that the best way to describe it? I'd say that I felt as if the dirty work involves some NHA contact or technology or something because there was definitely missing time involved in that. work. And it was as if something was kind of controlling or managing the entire mission whenever

people were on those missions, yes. So did something like that? I know 20 back, you know, in itself didn't exist. No. But it's not like that. These were termination teams. Okay. Okay.

You're talking about when something goes wrong like Jake Barber has been talking about and people are dying. There are people that are told to go in and literally correct the situation and clean up the freaking mess. That's really all it really amounts to is that there is, it's just like, you know, going after a fugitive. You know, a criminal fugitive. That's really what's going on. That's all it is.

I mean, it's quite simple. It's not a shocking fact that crimes occur. And it's not just in our world, but the NIH have criminals in their world, too. I mean, it's just a simple thing. I don't see why people are so shocked at that thought. Yeah. You know, that's all it's going on is there's this very dangerous, life-threatening piece to this. And it's because of what's going on with these retrievals.

So there are some, just like with people, personalities, NIH, different personalities, different motives, different beliefs and moral systems. And essentially, you know, well, here you go. Here's another thing I want to address. And I've thought about this a few times and just keep forgetting to say it. Sometimes people are in a mode when they think about NHI, that they're all these kind angelic peoples. That's not the reality of it. Yes, some of them are higher thinking and very intelligent, but most of them are like us. They have societies and criminals and law and justice of their own that they deal with.

And that's really what it is. And even in the Bible it describes God's justice. And the angels meet that out as well, in wars. and in saving certain individuals. And even in their own Bibles, that says how they are doing some of the stuff that the NIH do, and that is, you know, there's these newborn babies that come in,

you know, into the Bible stories as well. And all these are very common, but people seem to be so shocked that I ever mentioned the fact that this is a fact of life for other beings rather than just us here on earth. And it's like, well, get over yourselves. I mean, these are people just like us, a lot of them.

I mean, yeah, some of them have a really good society is where there's very little crime, but stuff still happens to them. They still have people that get born that end up being the next Jeffrey Dahmer. You know, and there's just no saving them. These kinds of people. So there's all this stuff that's going on.

That's the reality of it, is that they're dealing with their own sets of wars, their own crimes, their own justice system. their own governmental systems, their efficiency, all these kinds of things that we're going through right now. It's common. It's a common life thing to go through that as an intelligent species on any planet. You've got to have some form of governance to keep all that stuff in check.

I mean, yeah, it's interesting. It makes sense. It's just, you know, it's not something, I guess. And that's what I wanted to make the point of is that it's not this big, fluffy cloud of NHI. Like some people think, oh, they're all so angelic and beautiful. It's like, no, they freaking aren't. Why do you think, Jason,

James Fox didn't want to get into that portion with you? You know, there was a clip from Julian Dory, not to like, you know, name drop other shows and hosts, but I'm just, you know, referring back to one of the shows you're on. There was a clip from that that kind of went viral where, like, James Fox was like, oh, if we get into this, I'm walking out of the room. But he knew about this stuff. So, I mean, why do you think he didn't want to get into all

that with you in the documentary you know just that it's too early he'd rather have you know gotten further down the road before we started talking about those things because just like with jake you know same the same knee-jerk reaction happened to him oh here we go there's some crazy nut neck nutcase saying he retrieves this stuff you know and he's constantly barraged with these people that literally are sitting on their couches never served a day in their lives in the military, never served in a special access program, and yet they'll sit there and try to tell somebody like Jake where to go and get off the bus. Yeah.

It's like, you know, no, you people just need to go back and rethink what you think you're saying to these people and people like myself because, gosh, you know, I know Jake, he knows me. I produce documentation, and he can produce pretty much a lot of the same. And he can show the receipts just like I can. So that's the fact of the matter, and that these couch potatoes just need to back off and realize that, you know, get off the 20-and-backed shi and realize that there's more to this, that there's a reality to the retrievals. And if you want to believe in NHI, they're not this fluffy cloud of pink kindness all the time.

They've got some real problems that they're dealing with. Because you saw it, right? And again, you know, because, yeah, right. Again, if I'm overstepping that, and that's totally fine, just let me know. I'm okay with walking back. But you were, according to your testimony, a part of these programs where you were intermingling and cooperating with NHI on these different missions, essentially. Well, I think my mistake, and I think James just,

just to answer that part of the question, why did James react that way? This is something I've tried to clear up before, is that James and I, when we were talking to Julian, just outside the door of his studio, we had told, you know, Julian wanted to talk about this 20-and-back crap, and we flat-out told him, no, I never said I was part of 20-and-back, and we don't want to talk about this. So when James actually responded and looked right at me, that's a lot of it. that's why I wasn't offended like everybody else was like, ooh, he's trying to control Jay.

I was like, no, you don't understand. We had just talked to Julian about, we're not going to talk about this. And James was kind of looking at me going like, what the fuck? You just went over this. Yeah, but at the same time, James and I hadn't told James everything during that time frame when he had interviewed me for the program,

that film of his. And yeah, it was unfair of me to bring up that topic without consulting with him first. Okay. No, fair enough. So he's right to be a bit offended and like, yeah, hey, this is kind of shocking. And it is. And I think James can also say the same when it comes to talking about Jake Barber's experience.

It's shocking, you know? And, yeah, you're not going to get around it. It is shocking. There is the shocking part of the retrievals that needs to be addressed because it's not all hunky-dory. It's nice to have this sci-o-o-rengthy. in calling these eggs down from heaven, you know, especially around Easter. Boy, what a great idea. But yeah, anyway, it's just, you know, the reality of life is the same here as it is elsewhere.

And it's time for people to get over it. I mean, yeah, there's going to be a lot of problems out there that are going to become reality eventually, and we can talk about it more in depth. But until that time, I have to agree with James. I don't think the public is ready to discuss about, what's happened with some of these NHIs that have had themselves hunted down by these termination teams and

stuff like this. It's just not something that's friendly. It's not fun. And it's left behind a lot of soldiers and good people with PTSD. And that's the other aspect of this is that it's not fun for the people have to do this kind of work.

It's incredible. Yeah. I mean, it's an incredible thought that that's going on behind the scenes. I do want to correct myself on something real quick, Jason, and maybe you can correct me. You're the best person to do it. I said that James Fox knew about that part of your story beforehand, but he didn't. That came up later, his knowledge that came up later about your cooperation in those programs? Yes. I think where the confusion lies is that that previous year, I don't think James heard me come,

out public because that's when the first part of it came out. And we had already taken video and he was already editing his film when that occurred. So he either didn't have time or he didn't hear that portion of my testimony that day that I did the five-hour space. So yeah, there's an opportunity that he could have heard it before he put the film out. but I don't think he did hear anything about it until after the movie was out and he felt kind of slighted by me. And that, yeah, I have to agree.

I've already apologized to them. And we've done as much as we can to rectify the storyline about all of that. So that's kind of how it goes. And like he said, you know, just the encounter in the desert to him, you know, being, you know, because he has a critic at heart that just the experience in the desert was enough for him to put into the movie. And that was quite a lot for him to, you know, allow all that into his film. And then this stuff comes out the month after his film. And he's like, oh, my gosh, you know, they kind of threw a wrench into things. So I, like I said, we're getting along better.

He's understanding. And I'm trying not to be as shockingly. blatant with my words and the way I describe it. I'm going to be kind of be more like I'm toned down right now with you. When you ask me, I'll just tell it, tell you, in general, this is what it's about, and this is why it goes on. And that's all I'm going to do from now and out until I feel like there's a time that this becomes a topic. And we need to know, you know, what's happened for real on some of these retrievals. And maybe Jake will be able to expound on some of the stuff he's seen as well.

and you're going to not just hear it from me, you're going to hear it from him. And hopefully some other whistleblowers that finally want to get it off their chest. And hopefully get some of the help they need, probably because some of them are suffering PTSD as well. Yeah. And we wish them the best, and we hope that they can come out and get the help that, you know, some of these guys so desperately need. And they feel like they're alone. They've got nobody to turn to, and there's a lot of people you can. So you've got a whole community who I think of people who will be happy to, you know, bring you in with open arms.

But I can only imagine what you've gone through personally, you know, coming out to the world like you have with your testimonies and your story. It can't be easy by any means. No. It's not. It's a process as well. I mean, for example, when I first came out, I didn't have a lot of letters and emails available to me that I do now. I hadn't gone through my own personal records to look for all of the documentation that I currently. have to back up my story.

Likewise, I don't, I didn't have all the other information that James had done and conducted during his investigation of me and had confirmation from committee members themselves that actually produced letters stating that I was there, that I contributed to their investigation. That's stuff that James contributed and other people have contributed since then. So literally everything that I have stated, including two people, that apparently held put off told not to come forward that could have corroborated my week of that desert encounter. He told James that, yeah, there's two people he knew of that could corroborate the story. And not only that, he had to ask them not to show up because it would have impacted both him and probably their lives.

And who knows that they're probably scared to come forward anyway. But all of these great things now, you know, so literally everything I have said, I can either produce the receipts for, or somebody else produced the receipts for me. And I think that's something that needs to be said. As for the 20 and back, what you have is me and Jake Barber saying the same damn thing about these retrievals, that they're messy. And I think that speaks volumes. You've got two military people decorated, both trained in combat, hops. And we both, I had to say this, but when I had to say this, but when I,

met him, I looked right at him and I said, I know who you are. I've seen your face before. And I couldn't place exactly when or where. But I knew his face immediately. It was like, you know, I'm just really good with faces. I don't forget them. So I think that's another thing is that this 20 and back stuff, no, that doesn't exist. But Jake Danwell knows about these termination teams. I know he does because they're the same people that are protecting his teams out there in the field. Wow. Well, I did want to say as well that just to give James Fox credit on my end, because I know

he had a lot of pressure to even remove you from the film and the program, you know, and a lot of you had a lot of blowback when you came out and, you know, there was pressure about, oh, this Jason Sands guy, you know, I can't believe James Fox. He's ruining his reputation. And I spoke to him actually. Those were actually paid four actors. Really? Yep.

I found out to the great vice. that the people that were espousing that, they came up with a narrative. And, of course, their minions that are really just robots that just repeat what they're told were the ones that kept adding onto it and adding onto it. So it was just one of those things that I found out that, yeah, they were just trying to get the film to stop. They were trying to debunk it any which way they could. Because I knew that there was a lot of shocking material in there, and it wasn't just my part of it. But it was easier to kind of bash on me because nobody really knew who.

who it was. So best to try to take out the new guy. So it's a very common tactic and deception to do that. That's wild. I didn't know that. But yeah, to his credit, he kept you there and I'm glad he did. I asked him about it. I saw him in the halls of

Congress this past November when they had the second UAP hearing with Willizano and Tim Gallaudet and everything. Yeah, that was quite the time for sure. It was like the Super Bowl of UFOs. I mean, like everybody was there. So it was pretty wild but I asked him I said you know about Jason Sands what do you think he's like

no we're keeping him in the film he's like you know I know some of the reactions it's like but we were keeping his story and I was I was glad to hear that and I'm glad that he did that and you know he's back doing a lot of things so it was yeah well that's because he knows me personally I've actually before I gave some of my documentation to anybody else I showed it to him in person and like I did at the the Julian Dory show know, I produced some of that paperwork for Julian. That wasn't the grand total of it all, but James has seen all of it. On that note, Jason, actually, because, you know, this is, maybe it's kind of a rhetorical question, but just overarching wise, why do you think, in all and all, everything we've mentioned here, why do you think people don't believe you?

Why do you think some people are just dead set against, and by all means, it's, you know, their prerogative not to. I mean, you see behind me on the poster here for UAP, as we talk, it says, decide for yourself. That's always the mantra of the show here for UAP, and that's completely fine if they don't want to believe you, but out of all the experiences that you've gone through and you say, you know, the paperwork you can supply and the receipts and everything,

why do you think some people are just completely dead set against you as a whole in your story? I think it's just their own biases a lot of times. I find that there's the people that are like that, they, when you talk to them, they sound angry. They sound obsessive with their own opinion or whatever they think at the time. And if it doesn't match what they think, you know, a military guy ought to be doing, they're going to call you out. and a lot of times they ingrandize their own opinion as being the authoritative source. And I think that's an error of judgment on their own part because they're just another person, you know. And it gets back to the fact that, like you say, yeah, I've never asked them to agree with me.

I'm like, fine, if you don't want to believe me, it's your thing. But by all means, you know, I'm not rude to you. You get rude with me? Yeah, go piss off. you know, I don't like people like that. It's just like, you know, you're stuck in your way of thinking. I can obviously see that. I tried to be nice, but, you know, you don't seem to be able to reciprocate that.

So I think it's a personality disorder more than anything else that gets in their way. Because they just cannot get out of themselves enough to see any other point of view. I mean, they like to sound like they're being objective. But as soon as they say, well, yeah, I would like to believe in NIHs, but then there's this. This pisses me off of you. That's when you can see it going. You can see they've got something else going on in their head. They've got this ramble that's always ready to go.

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And that is our conclusion to part one of this conversation. Part two will come out in the next few days. So stay tuned to UAP, wherever you get your podcasts on Apple and Spotify or anywhere else. Just make sure you search UAP. Subscribe, download that way you get those notifications when the new ones come out because part two will be out later on this week. And also follow along on social media at UA Podcast 850 on any of the platforms there. YouTube is at just at UA podcast.

There's no 850. And I'll have portions of this interview. And eventually the entire thing will be on YouTube. I plan on that anyway. So make sure you follow along in there. My interview with Eric Burleson is on YouTube as well. If you want to check that out, there's portions of that. And I will have the whole thing of that up on YouTube.

So at UA Podcast 850, anywhere else. Keep along and play along. Stay up to date with any of the updates and see what else is going on in the crazy world. My crazy world of UAPs here for the show at UA Podcast 850. But some of the other post-conversation thoughts that I had there, I want to touch on one of the last things you heard, which was, I've never heard this anywhere. I'm not even sure if Jason has put this out anywhere before. And if he has, then my apologies. But I don't remember hearing it where he mentioned that Hal put off told James Files.

not to bring two witnesses forward. That apparently, according to Jason, and this one, it really shocked me because I found it, A, intriguing and both intriguing and disturbing. And it's kind of unjust to think that how putoff was, you know, such a reputable name in the UFO community, told James Fox not to bring witnesses forward. There were witnesses who were there with Jason when he says he had his encounter. with the extraterrestrial that were willing to come forward and testify to that, that it really did happen, but for whatever reason, Hal putoff told James Fox not to bring them forward.

Now, apparently, as you heard Jason say there, it might have had something to do with compromising Hal putoff himself or some type of missions that have gone on in the past. I don't know. That's only speculation. Maybe we'll hear from Help Putoff on that at some point. But it's pretty incredible to think that, you know, those witnesses are out there. they were being stifled and they're still are kind of being stymied in the background

and they were willing to, according to Jason, corroborate his story about meeting this extraterrestrial in the desert at the Nellis Range. That kind of really shook me. I never heard that before. I was happy to get his explanation on 20 and back.

Look, I know you're either going to believe what Jason's saying or not and it's completely up to you, but that was one of the big contentions for people that because Jason said he was part of 20 and back, well, then he's a liar because 20 and back never existed. So I wanted to give him that opportunity to explain that initial statement on his, the very first Twitter space that he did when he initially came out. So hopefully that helped to make up your mind about different things.

Maybe it shed some light on some new information that you didn't know before from Jason's side of the story. And there was just so much there. I mean, I didn't realize how close he and David Grush were and how much they've been working behind the scenes. So just so much to reflect on there. And I just, I really hope that you enjoyed that. You found it in form. informative, maybe even took something new away from it in this part one interview with Jason Sands. Part two, like I said, coming out in a few days, there was an entirely different story that Jason had that even in our private conversations, because again, I've spoken to him multiple times behind the scenes, sometimes an hour or two hours at a time. And I had never heard,

it's never been brought up, he never brought up to me one of the stories about his encounter with UFO in England back in 1999-2000 area. I had never heard this story. I never knew this happened to him until we were talking and just he brought it up. He's, oh yeah, actually this, this happened and I never talked about it before. Okay, let's talk about it then. It involves some missing time. It involves some information that he received. It's a really fascinating story in the way that he paints the picture. So that's going to be at the beginning. I think it's toward the beginning of part two, if I remember it correctly. So absolutely look forward to you hearing that one. And we get into the spiritual side, the spiritual aspect as well. We get pretty deep on that.

And that was something that I know Jason has kind of been chomping at the bit to be able to do that a lot of other shows weren't willing to do with him. Just putting that out there. They didn't want to do it. I know that for a fact. He wanted to go, he's wanted to have that conversation about the spiritual aspect of this and how it all connects to his experience and what he believes and where this is all coming from and how he connects it personally and just no one's ever wanted to cover that with him on all the shows he's been on all the big names the documentaries they won't touch it i'm not afraid to to put that out there and to have that conversation in fact i embrace it so you're going to hear that in part two and get jason's

perspective on that part of the conversation i was looking forward to asking those questions and i think it came out really well and i think it's something that's going to be really thought-provoking when you get to hear that. But so much more in part two, I mean, there's just a ton to touch on that we did. As far as what's happening with Congress and the new dates coming up, just I really look forward to me here he did. It's another hour plus. So just stay tuned for that one right here on UAP. But until then, until next time, like I said earlier, just a few minutes ago, make sure to continue to download and subscribe to the show. I always very much appreciate everybody following along, whether through the podcast or social media. gosh, I can't talk anymore through the podcast or social media.

I really appreciate that extremely. So thank you for doing that. Wherever you get your podcast, just search UAP. And it's at UA Podcast 850 on social media to follow along there. And keep up with the show. And email is S-Dieneru-A-P at gmail.com. It's S-D-I-E-N-R-U-A-P at gmail.com. One very last note, just a reminder,

because I think I've only mentioned it like once. So if you didn't hear me say it before, I will be at contact in the desert in Palm Springs, California. May 30th, I'll be in the area, but I'm going to the actual show to the convention on Saturday, May 31st. So I will be there present at the show Saturday, May 31st all day. I'm going to be at the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance booth at 1 p.m. for an hour from 1 to 2 there. So, of course, Pacific time, obviously since it's in California. Yeah. So if you don't come across me in the hallways, if you're going, if you'd like to say hello, that would be a good spot to find me one to two at the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance booth from one to two on that day, May 31st. So come by, say hi. If you see me, I would love to say hello to you if you are going to contact in the desert. But that will do it for now. That's it. Finally did it. Part one of Jason Sands. And I can't wait to get part two out to you in just a few days. So like I said, stay tuned on the podcast by subscribing and through social media to see when that one pops out.

later this week. So on that note, just thank you all again for everything. All the support is just means the absolute world to me. So thank you so much. I can't say enough. So until next time, it's Stephen Deiner here saying be well. Thanks. And we'll talk again soon. Right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast.