UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 103 Ashton Forbes part 1: The Physics of Disclosure

Episode Date: January 13, 2025

What is the nature of the physics behind the possibility of free energy and UFO propulsion? And could we be opening Pandora's Box by pursuing full disclosure? Also, is the Navy to blame for the disappearance of MH370? Stephen Diener and Ashton Forbes discuss these questions and so much more in part 1 of this wide ranging interview...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Explore your options at Kingsley Manor. a nonprofit month-to-month senior community within the Front Porch family welcome into this new episode of uap stephen deaner back with you here as always on the unidentified alien podcast for episode 103 as we go into the physics of disclosure what does that mean well you're going to find out as i bring back in our good friend ashton forbes a friend of the show for sure and as we mentioned in the beginning of the episode or the beginning of the interview anyway maybe the most polarizing figure in uphology. There's a couple out there, but Ashton is definitely towards the top. So looking forward to playing this interview for you here today because we cover a lot of bases, which is why, for that reason, I wanted to split this up into two parts. It's been a little while since I had a two-part episode, but I felt like this one was absolutely worthy of it just to kind of, again, split up the conversation because we spoke

for over an hour and a half. So really didn't want to put out such a long episode. you know, I kind of try to split it up if it goes that long for the most part, especially with all the different topics that we hit on. So in this part one, you're going to hear about what I just thought was extremely fascinating. Kind of like the nature of the physics behind free energy, behind zero point energy. And we go into some of those things with Ashton. And we also talk about Scott Roter.

You know, when I had Scott Roder on the show just a couple weeks ago to begin the new year, I think it was episode 101, Scott. spoke about how he and Ashton have kind of been talking behind the scenes a little bit about the MH370 videos. And so we go into what Scott thought about that and the chain of custody issue when it comes to the MH370 videos. Really interesting discussion there. And also how Ashton tracked down, I hadn't really heard him explain this before. So I thought this was really kind of fascinating to hear his process and how he tracked down who he believes to be the leaker of the MHHCHA. 370 video, the one that came out where I decided not on YouTube 10 years ago, 10 and a half years ago now,

who he believes is Edward C. Lin. So he goes through his process, and it's really, really quite fascinating on how he came to that conclusion that Edward C. Lin was the leaker of the MH3, or of the MH370 video that, of course, Ashton has been putting out there for the past couple of years now. We also talk about a very interesting subject, such as, would you choose national security or full disclosure. And Ashton thinks he's pinpointed a couple of people that have been presented with that question. And he says he knows which one they've chosen. So really interesting discussion there. That kind of goes into Pandora's Box. Would we be opening Pandora's Box by achieving full disclosure? I think that's something that's, we kind of really dug into that I've never

dug into really deep before. But it's a very important question. And that's, That's something that we discuss here. But we start off our discussion, our interview, with the question that's brought me to Ashton, to bring him back to the show at the start of 2025. I had this thought in my head really for the past couple of months. I've been wanting to reach back out to Ashton really since about October, November, in that area because this idea has been floating around in my head since then of, I want to ask him about what he thinks the UFO community is missing.

You know, he's been pretty vocal. I'm sure you know that he's been pretty vocal against some of the more noticeable, recognizable, names, if you will, in the UFO community. Some of the biggest names, I guess you could say. And also just the disclosure conversation as a whole when it comes to alien life. And that's one of the controversies that kind of surrounds Ashton and why some people in the UFO community get on him is because they kind of feel. feel like he's trashing them or he's trashing the idea of of other life and things like that.

And that's not the case at all. So it was really cool to get his view on that and let him kind of expand on his thoughts that he puts out on social media and have a longer form discussion about some of the controversies with Ashton in the UFO community, which is, again, the original reason why I wanted to bring him on because so many people just decide to ostracize each other instead of talking to each other. That was really the crux of this idea for me was, you know, to bring him back on and talk about so many wide array of things that we ended up talking about that weren't necessarily on the docket. But, you know, these discussions go so many different ways and then think of this

question and that question and, you know, it becomes a very organic conversation, which is my favorite part of an interview is when it becomes an organic conversation. But the reason why I wanted to bring it back on, the main reason, the main idea, behind it was just to open up those channels, open up those doors. Instead of ostracizing each other because somebody might be presenting something in a different way or disagrees with you, that's not, that's something that I try to avoid. Instead, the way I look at it is let's have a discussion about it, even though you may not like somebody because of the way that they present something, you disagree with it because of the way they present something or say something.

It doesn't mean we should just shut them out completely. Let's talk about it. So that's why I wanted to bring on Ashton. And I'm really glad I did because, again, we spoke for over an hour and a half and covered a lot of ground, which again, why this is a two-parter. So part one, right now, myself and Ashton Forbes, beginning with that right there. What's going on with you, Ashton, in the UFO community? What's the idea? So I hope you enjoy this part one of our discussion and stick around for, after it's done. I'll come back and preview part two. You can expect from there and wrap up with some final thoughts. So for now, part one, myself, Ashton Forbes, right here on UAP.

I mean, how else could we get into 2025 without bringing Ashton Forbes back on the show? Welcome in UAP, Stephen Deiner here. Back with Ashton Forbes. We were trying to decide if this is number four, number five, could be number six. Regardless, Ashton, thanks so much for coming back onto UAP and join me once again for, I'm sure what will be another very fascinating discussion between us.

Yeah, I think, Stephen, for having. driving me on. If I'm not the most polarizing figure in the UFO community, I'm definitely fighting for the top spot. So I'll see what I can, what kind of rants I can throw out there today that can keep me up at that top polarizing position. Get you back on top. That'll be our goal here today. Let's get you back to number one on polarizing. But no, man, I mean, we have a lot. There's been a lot that's happened just in the past couple of weeks, really, just in the first couple weeks of the year. I actually wrote down, I was telling you before we started, kind of, you know, off the air, as we say.

a lot of different questions and notes that I had written last week. And it occurred to me as I was looking through it. This was before the Sean Ryan revelation about Matthew Littlesberger and the email that came out, the manifesto, if you will. So we're going to cover that. We're going to talk about plasma orb technology. We're going to talk about free energy. We're going to talk about your views on NHI versus government technology

and the UFO community as a whole. So I guess I'll start there I think something that actually That drove me to ask you to come on again My original thought was to ask you about Your thoughts your views on the UFO community right now Because as you know I mean a lot of people follow you and what you say

You go on the different shows or you put out stuff on social media And one of the things I've noticed is How you've presented Some people some, you know, figures in the UFO community as not really serious. And sometimes the discussion in the UFO community that it's missing the point. So I want to get your take on those things and let you elaborate a little bit on it. Yeah, and I think I'd say I intentionally put this wedge in there.

And the wedge is specific. The battle lines have been drawn. There are certain portion of the UFO community that is more concerned about alien life. than technology that would allow aliens to visit us from a far away star system, galaxy, or what have you. And my impression, and I've got Lou Al-Zondo on the record, saying that he would choose national security over disclosure every single time, no question. That's a shocking statement from somebody like me who's on the outside looking in at the UFO community. because I don't think that you can ever have true disclosure unless you're showing both hands wide open. This is what we've got.

This is what we've been hiding. I'm beyond convinced at this point that we do have some UFO technology. I call it zero point energy technology because that's the only thing in my opinion that can be the power source for UFOs. That power source is the national security issue. That's the thing that people can't talk about because it's potentially. potentially a free energy power source. It can produce weapons of mass destruction beyond anything that we could possibly dream of related to nuclear weapons or atomic bombs.

This is the thing that I think that the majority of the people in the UFO community, they're like the top disclosure type people that have connections to people in Congress and the government. This is what they're holding back. This is what they're hiding from us. To me, that is not true disclosure. To me, true disclosure will only come from being perfectly. transparent about the information and technology we have. And the reason why I say this is that there are a lot of people in the UFO community that don't believe that the United States government and intelligence communities are capable of performing a black operation, an illegal operation that might not technically be illegal because whereas CIA is conducting it against foreign people on foreign soil. But if most people knew about the stuff that we did, we would consider it to be like war crimes and other horrific stuff.

I mean, this was brought up in the Michael Littlesburger email that we had killed a bunch of civilians. And this has been like, you know, not even that much of a secret since the Obama days where we were bombing people. And, you know, how many innocents is it okay to take out if we get this one terrorist? You know, to me, that perspective is kind of sick and evil that, oh, we're just going to take out these innocent people or let's take out these semiconductor engineers to prevent China from getting this advanced technologies out there. So I think that the UFO community, the biggest problem I have with it is that they don't accept that the United States is the bad guys. We're the ones with the technology. We're the ones that are lording over everybody else that we can do some black operation anytime we want, make somebody disappear. You know, like the president of Iran's helicopter, it can just crash suddenly.

And we can just say it was weather, weather did it. Those are the types of things where we need to wake up to it because the UFO. FFO conspiracy, whether or not you think it's about aliens or whatever, this is a criminal cover-up, criminal and civil penalties that will be had for the people that have been discrediting people, silencing people, making people disappear, for the people that, for the country or the companies that have been given this technology, that they have been given preferential treatment by the United States government, they will be sued out of existence. Like the Lockheed Martins, all their competitors will sue them and take everything that

they have. So we have to realize that the people are the reason why they're not going to admit to any of this stuff. The reason why they don't want to admit to all the horrible stuff they've done is those criminal and civil penalties that is happening. In addition to the fact that in some cases, I don't think these people are evil. I don't think Louis Alando's evil. Christopher Mellon. I don't think they're evil. I just think that they look at and they go, this is too dangerous. My country told me we have to keep this secret for national security. If another country got access to this technology, it would put the United States people in danger. And I don't even disagree with them.

I don't even disagree. I think they're probably right. But that doesn't mean that we get to hide this technology. And the reason is we disappear at least 239 people on board MH370. And my guess is we've done equivalent worse stuff in the past as well. So that would kind of be like opening Pandora's box, right? And I think maybe is that, do you think is that what Louelizondo is kind of getting at? he's kind of intimating that I would choose national security over disclosure because he knows

if true disclosure as we say when I spoke to like Stephen Bassett for example he says disclosure with a capital D. I like the way he puts that so I use that from you know once in a while disclosure with the capital D would be what you're talking about which is not only is there other life whether it's coming from another planet or within the planet or dimensions whatever but there is also all these hidden technologies the zero point energy and where that that comes from. So if there is a disclosure with a capital D, is that too dangerous? Is it opening Pandora's box? And that's what's leading someone like Louelizondo or Christopher Mellon to say, maybe we shouldn't go that route if it's going to be too dangerous. That makes sense?

Absolutely. And I think I was going back and forth with Timothy Aberino yesterday about it. And he makes good points. You know, he says that, well, we can't let that technology out as too dangerous if people were dumb monkeys and we can't handle it. Well, I got bad news. for you. We're not going to all of a sudden evolve and become amazing benevolent beings overnight. That's not going to happen. So how long are we planning on hiding this technology? And yes, it is a Pandora's box. The moment you open this box up, you're getting everything along with it. And this is the capital D disclosure. I would even say Stephen Bassett's a little bit, you know, looking at it from a two rosy colored glasses perspective as well, where the moment you show that we've got aliens, the whatever, they're visiting us, okay, well, what's their technology? You know, these questions are going to cascade upon one another.

The moment you reveal the technology, everything's coming with it. The moment you reveal we can manipulate gravity that we've fundamentally understood, misunderstood something about physics. All the good and all the bads coming at the same time. Free energy. Now we have got the source of unlimited energy. There might be healing capabilities related to this technology. Negative time could be like reversing aging potentially.

Just to throw out some of the crazier things that are possible. possible. But then we also have the capability of making weapons of destruction that can create a black hole or wipe out our entire solar system in the blink of an eye. Stuff that's so far beyond what we can imagine. And this is the dark side of the UFO disclosure. People are out there happy to say, oh, aliens are real. It's going to change our perspective of the universe. Maybe. I don't really think that it will in general. I think that most people are going to look at aliens and just go, okay. great aliens exist you know what are you what are you doing for me in my living situation on a day to day basis yeah but the technology will change everything i mean we're talking not just like free energy transmutation end of scarcity but what even is our civilization in a world where we all have star trek replicators what is capitalism at this point and how do we prevent again any two warring factions doesn't have to be the united

States and China can be any two warring factions on this planet that have access to that level of technology how do we prevent them from destroying all of us you know these are the big questions that i think this is the true dark side of the UFO disclosure phenomenon and when you look at it from that lens it's pretty easy to tell which side are are each individual person on many of them are on the side of yes we want to tell the world that aliens exist but we're not going to give you the technology because you can't handle it can't handle it yeah and see and i would say the counter is real quick that yeah the worst people in the world already have this technology people that are above the law unaccountable to anybody the intelligence communities our black projects and our military they already have

this stuff and they're already doing horrible stuff with it to me i say you know what we're just going to roll the dice maybe there's a chance we do wipe ourselves out but maybe there's a chance we get to star trek world and we can make another colony on Mars or another planet somewhere and then we can become an interstellar species and if we do lose one planet we haven't been wiped out it's interesting I mean that's what I go back and forth with myself too and I was just talking about this with someone the other day just like over the phone and you know they asked me what do you think is going to happen you know are we going to find things out are we going to get disclosure and the way I think it's kind of like a weird paradoxical question where how can you give basic disclosure is kind of

what David Grush calls it. You know, they're here. We've recovered crafts. We've recovered biologics. Let's get that part out of the way. Can we do that? Because my thing is, Ashton, is that I think that that will happen at some point within the next few years. I don't know if it's going to happen next week or if it's going to happen in three years. I don't know. But it feels like the momentum is going towards some type of basic disclosure. But the question is, can we have basic disclosure without the domino effect after that that you're talking about? Do you think the general population would be satiated enough at a basic disclosure level?

Or will it inevitably start to bring up more questions of, okay, well, if this is real, then what else is real? How did they get here? Where did they come from? What are they using? How old are they? How do they live longer than us, if they do? There's a lot of other questions.

Unravel is all going to unravel as well. I mean, you have to realize how quickly this is going to happen. It's going to be one of those situations where one year we are all about general relativity, space is empty, dark matter, dark energy. And the next year we're going to have a completely new perspective where we're going to say there really was an ether of energy all along. There really is this extra dimension. String theories thrown in the trash, dark energy, dark matter. We don't need those anymore.

All the experiments that we've been doing to try to. show the Higgs field and the large Hadron Collider, all junk, all obsolete trash all of a sudden overnight. And within a year, you're going to already probably start having people saying, like, oh, I never really believed in general relativity anyway, you know, because this is what they do, especially with like the Bush Wars is my favorite example. Yeah. Or like everybody supported it when it was happening in the Bush War in Iraq in the early 2000s. And then now after the fact, you can't find anybody whoever supported it.

It's true. Oh, I never swear you yellow cake uranium. It's going to be like that with physics as well. And it will happen quickly. And then right away, people are going to start to realize stuff like scalar electromagnetic waves can be a thing where we cancel out our electromagnetic wave and we produce this scalar potential. People are going to find all this stuff out fast because the experimental proof for it already exists. They are not foam effect, the lamb shift, casimir effect, why a hydrogen atom is stable when it shouldn't be stable. The electron should be like running into the nucleus.

These are all observational things that quantum mechanics shows. Can you elaborate on a couple of those for anybody who's never heard? They hear you say that and all of a sudden their mind explodes. Like, whoa, what is that? Just on a couple if you could. Yeah, so we've got a lot of different experiments that basically prove that space is not empty already today. And that people in the general relativity field that see the very large stuff out there, they can't reconcile it.

They can't reconcile quantum mechanics with general relativity. But there must be a way. I mean, there must be. We live in one solid universe. It's not like things on the very small should function differently than things that are very large. Hey, guys. So before we get back into the conversation, I just want to talk about something that affects all of us. And it's scary.

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Go to Shopify.com slash UAP. That's Shopify.com slash UAP. 23-year-old Elizabeth Plunkett heads off for a night away with friends. It's the summer in 1976, the best summer we'd had for years. Just hours later, she is kidnapped by two men in British Bay. These are two career criminals wanted for rape in Britain. They are Ireland's first serial killers. While both men confess to Elizabeth's murder, no one is ever convicted.

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Aaron Hove-Bome Effect would take a cylinder. Imagine this can right here. and you trap the electromagnetic fields within the cylinder. So there's no electromagnetic fields outside of this cylinder anywhere. And then you shoot like an electron past the cylinder. And you would think the electron should just go straight and hit the wall. But instead, when you do that, it curves a little bit. It bends.

There's a phase shift, they call it, that happens to the electron that passes through your cylinder that has no electromagnetic fields radiating outside. of it. So what they say is, well, you're having this phase shift occur just from the potentials of the electromagnetic fields outside of the can. What this is saying is that there is a field outside of this can that's being disturbed by the electromagnetic fields. They're trapped inside of the can. And the only way that's possible is if we're in a medium. If this was just empty space out here, the absence of electromagnetic fields outside this can should do nothing. There should be no impact. But once again, we start shooting the electrons past the can and they start bending around the can.

Very interesting thought. And then the other one is the Casimir effect. This is, if you ever talk about warp drives or wormholes, you're going to hear the Casimir effect get mentioned every time. Because Casimir effect shows real negative energy, not magical Harry Potter negative energy. But if we just take two plates, we stack them very close together to one another. All of a sudden, the plates come together. magically on their own, no interaction or anything like that. This shows, beyond any shadow of a doubt, experimentally proven, space is not empty, there is zero point energy.

Because what's happening here is that the wavelength that can fit between the plates, it gets pushed out. So the longer wavelengths can't fit between the plates. And only the shorter ones can fit between the plates of zero point energy. And what this means is it creates a negative pressure differential, where now, the outside is pushing in on the inside causing it to do that that's free action we didn't do anything to that we got action out of it we got a force out of it it was robert forward that showed in 1984 that you can extract energy from that and the problem is then well the plates have come together

now i've got to reset them if i want to do it again so it doesn't allow perpetual extraction of energy but it does allow a one-time extraction of energy from the quantum vacuum Hey, that's pretty damn good for me. If I'm somebody saying, hey, we can extract energy from the quantum vacuum. I'll take one time. One time proves that something's possible. And then it's just a matter of how do you make it repeatable, where you can have this constant extraction of energy?

Robert Forward is trying like spinning mechanical stuff to make the plates magically come back apart again. But the real answer was plasma. The real answer the whole time was plasma. Don't take two metal plates, take an amorphous blob of charge, and now the charge can just flow freely within that plasma. So one of the other ones I want to mention too is the hydrogen atom, not being at rest. This was actually a Hal Pudov paper.

1987, ground state of a hydrogen atom. Hydrogen atom has one electron. And Pudov is saying that, well, this one electron spinning around this hydrogen atom, at some point, it should collapse and crash into the nuclear. nucleus. You know, why, how is it able to maintain its orbit perpetually forever? And he decided the only way this is possible is if there is some interaction happening where this electron is losing energy to the environment as it's spinning around the hydrogen, but it's also gaining energy at the same time. This opens the door to not only is there this energy all around us, but all of the

atoms everywhere, every single atom is constantly pulling energy from. from this field to stay in an equilibrium. Stay in a point where the electron constantly spins around stable around the hydrogen atom. It's a big revelation if you think about the major implications, even though it comes from this very basic fundamental understanding of just one atom of hydrogen. But something like that could point to a type of,

or just simply point to like perpetual free energy. I mean, if it's in that state and it's gaining the energy somewhere to stay in that state, and then you have that continuous motion, it's hard, it's hard to refute. It's pretty interesting. So this is why you're seeing. People have realized that free energy is possible. Once you start to look at physics from this perspective, there's this reservoir of energy, like wind or solar, but it's just out there everywhere all around us. And then you start to realize that even a small atom is like gaining energy and dissipating energy at the same time.

Well, now, why can't I make a trampoline? trampoline what is a trampoline i bounced my trampoline shoots me into the air trampoline resets it's the same idea is that okay i'm going to pull a little bit of energy from the orbital of the electron spinning around the atom pull a little bit out and then it's going to go to an empty space and it's going to refresh it's going to pull excess energy to get it back into equilibrium again that's what a trampoline's doing you bounce on it the trampoline goes back to equilibrium bounce on it again this is called Casimir cavities. In fact, there's a patent already for it. It's going to expire in two years. Casimir cavity patent. And that's the concept of it. It's a microchip, basically, that pulls a little bit

of energy out of the electron orbital. And then it allows it to just go to a cavity, an empty space where the electron, the, uh, the, uh, hydrogen or whatever molecule regains the energy back. And then you repeat the process. So that would, that would, that would essentially, that would essentially act as the spring of the trampoline then, right? Exactly. Wow. And that's just one way to do it. Like, these guys have been working on it for 20 years.

And my guess is they made more progress than they publicly have shown. But I don't really know. There's all the ways to do it, too, with like magnetic motors. And then I think plasma is going to be the best. There's this company, ENG8, that is actually doing plasmoids, like exotic vacuum objects, what Ken Shoulders was doing in the 80s. partners with Poodoff and they're able to pull, they claim three to five times electrical energy off of the plasmoid compared to what this takes to produce the plasmoid. And it's not in the form of

heat. Like with nuclear power, we're like heating up water. With this, like it's coming out as electricity, which gets me super excited. So ENGA might be one of the first companies to crack cold fusion using plasmoids and exotic vacuum objects. So there's a bunch of different ways to skin the cat. on this. And this is another part of the reason why I said at the beginning, like, it's going to unravel quickly. Because once you understand the physics, you realize like, oh, we can do casimir cavities. I can make a magnetic motor. I can make a plasmoid ball. And all these things can produce over unity, free energy. And yeah, it would unravel, I think. And that's why it's, it's hard to imagine basic disclosure without the inevitable questions that come after it. And maybe

that's why they don't even venture into basic disclosure. I don't know. Um, When it comes to that, too, so is that basically like the overall arching thought behind your, I guess, narrative towards the UFO community, which is you're missing the bigger point. The bigger point is this. This is the secret. This is the disclosure. This is the big story. Alien life is great, but what about everything that comes after? So is that kind of like your overarching narrative about what the UFO community is missing, the point that they're missing?

Yeah, I think so. I think that alien life is neat, you know, and I think that in the 90s it would be very profound. But now we're at a point where we might have detected biologics on Mars and other organic signatures on like Enceladus, Titan, all these moons that we've got. I think that nowadays finding out that alien life exists is not even a blip on the radar.

I know a lot of people would disagree with me, but that's my view. Yeah, I mean, that's gotten you in trouble, Ashton. I mean, a lot of people come after you in the UFO community. They call you like a bad guy. They say you're a villain. They say all these different things, which is why we said you're on that polarizing list. But, I mean, does that get you? Or you just trying to say, look, I'm just trying to help out here by telling you, like, this stuff is out there.

I'm just trying to give people a truth. And it's not just me. There's a significant percentage of people out there that don't care about alien life at all. And this was something that I noticed even before I started doing this was that, I mean, just go around and talk to just like your family members and random normal people. people and you tell them that aliens are real or whatever and you say you know believe that it's real for a second with me and they go okay great what does that do to my life nothing nothing at all now you might say okay well we join the galactic federation they share their stuff with us we don't need them to share anything with us like if we see them flying around we can figure out how that works and this

is another big clue for everybody if there were aliens flying around the united states didn't have any idea who they were what they were doing or whatever would it which of these two paths would they go down? Would they go down the path where they hide it from everybody else and don't want anybody else to know about it? Or would they try to show the whole world and solicit help from the entire world on trying to figure out what it is and what we have to do and how we have to fight against it? Like imagine the movie Independence Day. Movie Independence Day, these aliens are coming down. They're a big threat. They're going to wipe us all out. And immediately we're looking for help from anybody. We pull some dude out of an RV and some ex-fighter pilot and some random scientist who can make

computer virus you know they're looking for help from anywhere but instead what do we see with this UFO topic secrecy silence they're not looking for help from the public and identifying what this stuff is right exact opposite they're not showing anybody any videos related to how the stuff operates they supposedly have this immaculate constellation uh system with hundreds if not thousands of videos i believe it because i've researched their surveillance systems we've got them they're not showing anybody any of those videos they don't want us to understand how the technology works. It's the exact opposite of what you would do if you're trying to seek help from this alien threat that's out there. So for me, the free energy aspect, what's causing this UFO to

fly? Yeah. It's such a simple question, but so profound. Because if you subscribe to the conventional view of physics, there is no possible fuel source for this UFO. Because any fuel source you add must add mass to your craft. Whatever the fuel source is, whatever that energy is, that's mass. We take that energy, we condense it into mass, and you put the mass on your craft. Now you've made your craft heavier,

and now you need more energy to speed it up. This is the fundamental problem. Same problem for why the faster we go, the more energy we need to accelerate. These problems make UFOs impossible unless the energy source is external. If the energy source is external, then you have the capability to do whatever we need to do floating around.

And this is a beautiful thought because you realize that there's only one answer to the question of what's the power source, zero point energy. And even the people that would say, well, fusion, fusion could be a power source. Fusion is just a tap into the zero point energy as well. How are we getting excess energy out of fusion? We're getting excess energy out of fusion because you're tapping into the zero point energy field. That's a simple answer. So for me, this concept of that technology, that level of technology will change everything about our planet overnight. Everything from our socioeconomic way of life, from scarcity, from technology.

We would just change from a completely different civilization. That's the big mystery. That's the thing that it's dark. It's scary to think about because how long have they known? about this technology. And why did they feel like it was so detrimental that they couldn't tell us about physics, about science? To me, the answer is gonna be very dark.

It's not gonna be something people are gonna be comfortable with, just to throw some ideas out there, just ideas. One could be that we live on some kind of prison planet and our overlords don't want us to get off this planet, that we achieve a certain level of technological advancement, and then we just get reset.

It could be that AI is on, already won and we're in a giant simulation. It could also be that humans have found a way to create retro causality, messages to the past, and that we are living in some closed loop like dark the TV show where time is deterministic. These would all be really, really dark things to find out about the nature of our universe that would be profound for people. I think it's going to be something crazy like that where you know we are we are aliens that got stranded on this planet like 20,000 years ago and now we're just stuck here you know something really really weird and dark and I think the same is true about the alien thing as well is that for the people that are like

oh we're going to have 10 different kinds of humanoid aliens or whatever like I would say aliens could be interdimensional in terms of like conscious plasma type beings they could be coming from the water, they could look just like us. That would be the weirdest one. Whereas like they look just like us, like where we can't even distinguish. It just looks like some other race of people that we don't recognize. Yeah, there's been a lot of reports of that. Yeah.

So this is where it's like I keep a way open mind. So people would say, Ashton, Ashton, why don't you believe in the aliens? It's not that I don't believe in aliens. I think that aliens are out there. Absolutely. My only concern is can they get to us if we have teleportation technology, then sure, probably. I have no problem with that.

To me, it's simply a matter of. of aliens are neat. Sure. They excited me in the 90s. It's 2024. I'm all about free energy and getting us to Star Trek world as fast as possible.

Right. In 25 now. Oh, 5. Look at me. Look at me. I don't know what year it is. Even further in the future. Actually, to start...

A lot has happened in 2025 already, man. Geez, we're having like the apocalypse happen. It's unbelievable, man. Gosh, and that's what I'm saying. There's so much that I want to get with... you on today and I wish we had like three hours to do it all so I'm going to try to fit in the time that we do have. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Death Wish Coffee,

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making your life easier and your business operations so much smoother. So it's time to turn those what-ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month, trial today at Shopify.com slash UAP. Go to Shopify.com slash UAP. That's Shopify.com slash UAP. Picture the two of you sitting side by side, a Mai Tai in your hands, and the sounds of Hawaii around you.

You almost forget you're on a plane. And that's the point, because when you fly with Hawaiian Airlines, it's hard to tell where your flight ends and vacation begins. Hawaii starts here. One of the things I wanted to ask you about actually was a conversation I had with Scott Roder. Now I bring him up because I know you guys have been talking a little bit behind the scenes. And for anybody who's not familiar, he's a crime scene reconstruction expert,

worked on a ton of big cases. And he's a friend of the show here. We talked about the Las Vegas aliens case. He broke down that video, showed it was a legit video. And then you make it of what you will from there. But, you know, he was showing his proof that there are actually. actual otherworldly beings in that video. One of the things that he and I spoke about recently, actually, I started off 2025 speaking

with him on the first episode of UAP, and we spoke about you for a little bit in the original MH370 video. And he said he believes in his expert opinion, the video is real, but his only issue with it is that it doesn't have a chain of custody. Can you elaborate on that a little bit? Well, the chain of custody is a huge issue. So chain of custody for people who don't know is just like where did this video come from? Who touched it?

Then who did it go to after that? Et cetera, et cetera. Totally a valid concern. The counter, and it's funny, I was talking to the AARO guy about this because he said pretty much the same thing. It's like the big concern is how do we track down the chain of custody on this video? And for them, it's kind of different than what it is for the public. For the AARO, I'm like, well, you can just find out what kind of whammy footage I'm looking at in that satellite video that no one in the public knew existed. or I can say find out what kind of thermal camera we're using on our you know MQ 20 Avenger

MQ 1C Great Eagle whatever model drone that is for the public it's a lot harder because the public doesn't know any of these systems what they are it's hard to verify that information but what I would say the counter is well what do you expect from leaked videos if you look at the videos that have been publicly released the UFO videos publicly none of them are compelling at all at least not compared to the mh370 videos it's just completely another level i mean in the publicly released videos even the gimbal go fast etc like they show something weird like we don't see propulsion standard propulsion but we can't tell what the propulsion is from those videos just looks like they're just objects floating in the sky

in that mh370 video we can see the propulsion extremely clearly in the thermal video we can see the dark line in front of the orbs. It's using some form of endothermic propulsion, which would be like a negative energy laser. It's manipulating that casimir effect that I told you before, and it's able to squeeze out the zero point energy from a region in front of it, just using a laser beam, using a laser beam. And that causes the object to just fall forward, fall forward. Instead of falling down, fall forward. So those videos are huge because they show a level of detail that we've never seen in any other UFO video. And if it is a leaked video, then how are you going to get the chain of custody?

How do you know where it came from? This is why I think that the best reporting that I did was last October when I dug up and said, told myself, I've got a psychological profile for the person that leaked these videos. And the first thing I looked up was I said, is it possible to hide charges from the public in a military setting? Like if somebody did some spy stuff, can you just not make the charges public? And the answer is no. Unless you're under martial law, the charges must be publicly available. So what was my next step? Give me the list of everybody charged with stuff between 2014 and 2017, 2018.

The list is actually not that long. We don't have a lot of spy cases happen or even dissemination of classified information. It's only like several dozen, not hundreds of people long. So it didn't take long going through the list to find Lieutenant Commander Edward C. Lin. And like he again, like he just checked every box, like in a way that I couldn't have imagined. I was looking for somebody that I didn't have name recognition that like wasn't Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden. I was looking for somebody that had signals intelligence experience. Like they worked with some of these assets that are communicating.

He's got it. He flew on a secret spy plane that he was just assigned to a month before. the plane disappeared that I've been told behind the scenes has deployments at Diego Garcia military base. His lawyer said that the classified information in question was available on the internet. I mean, that one right there, the government was terrified of going to trial with this guy because they were afraid they would have to show the information that he leaked in the trial. But at the same time, his lawyer is saying that the information is available on the internet.

you know, just add those things up to me. The only way that story makes sense is the MH370 videos. Like something so big that people don't believe it when they see it in the public realm, but at the same time, the government doesn't want to have to show it in court. Because the moment you show that in court, you go, wait, that's real. That video is real. That's really what he leaked. And then you look at how they came down on him.

They made him take a plea deal because they didn't want it to go to trial. They convinced him that what he did was wrong. And then they drop all the espionage charges. They give him nine years just for dissemination of classified information. This is woefully disproportionate to what other people got. So you look at this and I go, well, I found the guy. This is the guy. There is nobody else out there that checks even half the boxes.

This guy is the date of his assignment to this super-supy. secret spy plane program is right in the window of MH370. The investigation began right after him according to his own lawyer, not according to military people, according to his own lawyer. The investigation began right after they potentially found him logged into the Citric session stealing this information. So it's overwhelming. So whether or not we have the chain of custody, I know the guy that leaked the videos. I identified him with an extremely high degree of probability. And he's gone into hiding. Guys gone into hiding.

He's out of jail, right? Go ahead. He is out of jail, right? He's out of jail. He's been out of jail since he got three years shaved off. He got out in like 2021. Okay. So he's been out.

And people have been trying to like dig around, try to find him. We found some company that he might be connected to and that company who just went under this last year. We, I've, I've talked told ARO to reach out to him. I've used media. sources that I have to try to find him. I've tried to reach out to him. We've had MH370-0-X look into it.

I got in touch with his lawyers twice, and basically the end thing of the lawyers was the lawyer would literally not even get on the phone with me unless Edward C. Lin has signed off on a release of information. That's basically what the lawyer told me. So this tells me that the lawyers have told Edward Lynn that I'm on the trail, that I'm, I've pointed, I've figured out who he is.

And the only reason why I would imagine that he wouldn't reach out to me is that he is the guy. He is the guy. If he's not the guy, I've been going on Candace Owens and Hodge Twins and redacted podcasts saying this guy's name to millions of people. Wouldn't he sue me or something if he wasn't the guy or at least tell me like, hey, cease and desist. Stop saying my name connected to these videos. I'm not the one that leaked them. Right. And that's never happened. He's never reached out to you. It never happened. And he knows I'm looking for him. He knows I'm looking for him.

But at the same time, now let's flip it around. The United States has done these black operations. Edward C. Lynn potentially saw one in real time. He blew the whistle on it and he went to prison for six years over it. From his perspective, he doesn't ever want to talk about that ever again. And it can be dangerous. If he signed a plea deal that said you can't talk about these videos ever again, he probably thought no one was going to ever figure it out. But now some guy on the internet figures it out and is like, I need you to come clean. But if he ever speaks about the videos, he's going back to prison. He might be going back to prison for the rest of his life if he ever speaks about the videos. And you know what? That might be the best case scenario. There might just be like his life might be

on the line. This guy is the guy that leaked the videos. And, you know, if he goes away, now the case becomes a lot harder to prove. That's, that's what I was. So I'm worried about. that too. Yeah, that's what I was thinking too, actually, because, you know, if there's a case of double jeopardy here, you know, can you get charged for the same thing twice or is it, again, hypothetically speaking, with a plea deal, do they have some type of wording in their legalese that makes it a new charge that would avoid the double jeopardy? Or is it something that, like you said, on the more sinister notes, is it just a case of fearing for your life at that point? You know, okay, I'm not going to get charged again because I already got charged and prosecuted for it, convicted for it. but if I say something, my life is over. Like literally, my life is over or my family's life. I mean, either option is not good. Yeah, and it's not a game. We're talking about free energy, gravity manipulation technology,

that the United States has been hiding this. We're talking about we're using this technology in black ops that could be considered war crimes against other countries. There's a lot on the line here in this case. You know, so this too, I understand the pushback, especially from the UFO community. It's too much. it's just too much

the MH370 videos are too much people are people would love if there's no airplane in those videos like remove the airplane or remove the orbs either or

and everybody would be loving me right now loving that I've solved the mystery of MH370 or solved UFO disclosure because we've got three orbs spinning around but the fact that you combine the two

the fact that we've got these orbs spinning around showing clear anti-gravity negative energy properties. The fact that it's also an airplane that's still missing today, 10 years later, that we never found any trace of where they claimed the plane went down, the fact that you add these two together creates this perfect storm of Big D disclosure, where it's like, if you admit to any of this, it's all coming out.

And I was thinking through the scenarios of the AARO, like, what can the AARO even say? Yeah. Like, they're going to look at that footage and they're going to confirm that's consistent with real military footage and then what do they say after that like they say well um yeah these videos are uh yeah they're they're similar to videos that we've seen in the military like they can't say anything if they say anything at all the whole thing starts to unravel and people start to go well wait is that really mh370 like did we really do a black operation on it and then they start to ask like okay well where's the plane and what what what is the nature of this technology is this ashton forbs

guy right that we really have teleportation technology. You know, so no matter what they do, it creates a firestorm. And it does make me wonder, and by the way, I've got to go finish up the memorandum of record right after this. It's making me forget. I want to get it back to the ARO people so they don't have any excuses. Right. That's going to go in the congressional record.

Congress is going to get a report. It's going to have the MH370 video in it. And unless the ARO people bring themselves down to the level of these debunkers and claim that, oh, it's DFX from an old video game or whatever. Unless they do that, they're not going to be able to debunk those videos. So that's going to be one on there on the next report that's going to say anomalous case connected to a real world event, you know, two different angles purportedly from, you know, military assets. Congress might have to take it seriously.

I don't know. I have no faith that they will. But there's a non-zero chance that the guy you're talking to right now gets called up to Congress to testify. year, you know? That would be cool. Sure. I would be there. I'd meltdown in the UFO community.

I would be there to watch. If they're asking you questions, I'll be sitting there and seeing how it goes down. I'll go back at Stephen and be like, that's for you, bro. Yeah. I got you. Oh, man, what a world that would be. And on that note, too, when it comes to the video, I wanted to clear something up. I think I got wrong and I wanted to ask you about was the video that you have out, right?

that we can hypothesize was leaked by Edward C. Lin. Was that an original source video that was downloaded and disseminated through YouTube? Or is there a cell phone involved that recorded a screen and the videos from a cell phone? No cell phones. And that's the crazy part about the whammy footage, the satellite video, is that this was not somebody recording it like this, which is what everybody expected. You expect them to be recording like this. So there's no way to trace it back to you. Right.

But if I'm actually just recording my screen in front of me, that's got logs. Like, they've got logs on that. I doubt that this person was some type of super hacker that removed all the logs. They knew they were going to get caught. That's the scariest part is that whoever leaked this knew they were going to get caught. This was a big psychological aspect of it is that we know it's a U.S. military member because they did all this effort to remove HUD data, crop the screens and all this stuff. because they're trying to minimize damage to U.S. intelligence.

But at the same time, they wanted people to see this crazy anomalous event where this plane just disappears because they realize no one's going to ever solve that without those videos. We would never. No one's ever going to be like, oh, is United States military operations zap the plane with some teleportation tech? You're never going to know that unless you're literally staring at absolute proof. So they probably just freaked out.

You know, they probably freaked out and had an emotional reaction. And this explains why he would have flipped. Edward Sealing would have flipped the other side is that you get told that's not aliens. You get told that's we've been working on this technology. You just weren't privy to it until you got assigned with the VPU to Wizards. And then you would come out and say, oh, I'm so sorry for what I did. And I think that this information probably didn't leak directly to register. And on because Edward C. Lin seemed to have been caught by surprise.

If you read about when he got arrested, like he didn't really, he seemed like he genuinely. really didn't know what it was that they were coming at him for. He probably knows he's like, you know, told stories about stuff that you shouldn't say, but to like have hard evidence of it. And then you realize, oh crap, that video that I showed my buddy, you know, that I, I downloaded this video, I showed my buddy and then what did he do with it? Well, he put it on the internet. You know, he gave it to somebody else.

I think there was an intermediary at play here between Regisidon and Edward Ceylin. But again, this is me obviously speculating over how the video got leaked out. The only person that could tell us for sure would be Edward C. Lin or the United States military on, you know, exactly what the chain of custody was. But going back to the original point is that people love their chains of custody. But the only videos we get with chains of custody are things that are boring because the government's never going to intentionally let something out that's going to damage national security. So you, I think you have to expect that in a situation where something leaks out that really does damage. international security, you're not going to have a clear chain of custody on it. And you're going to have to figure out what is that chain of custody. I like to think that I've done a good enough job that

we've got a pretty high reliability that Edward C. Lynn is involved in this chain of custody. It's a U.S. Navy operation. He's a U.S. Navy lieutenant commander. He's in the right rank on the right plane to have access to these videos. The Russia was pointing the whistle or pointing the finger at the U.S. Navy as well. They said that the U.S. Navy took the plane for some reason. And China. China intercepted a communication from the U.S. Navy at the Taipo embassy that claimed that MH370 was disintegrating and attempting emergency landing. So we've got Russia pointing the finger at the Navy. We've got China pointing the finger at the Navy. We've got the U.S. is the only one possible for the cover up. And we've got a U.S. lieutenant commander who we've pinned as the guy that leaked the videos that was potentially literally in one of the spy planes staring down at the video that night when it happened. Wow.

I basically just at this point said, U.S. Navy, you're the ones who are responsible. They could have been involved with the intelligence community or private military contractors. I don't really know how that all works. But the U.S. Navy seems to be written all over the disappearance of that plane. And we end part one on that notes. Hopefully you enjoyed that discussion.

So much more to come for part two, which I plan to have out in a few days. I plan to have that out by Thursday on the 16th. So keep an eye out for that. look forward to that and I'll do my best to make sure to have it out by Thursday. That is the goal. That is the plan. So for sure, that's, that's, that's the end game to finish off this conversation on Thursday.

And I guess that is the question, right? I mean, when it comes to Edward C. Lin, his background, the work they did in the military is the Navy to blame. Ashton brings up some very, very intriguing points there when it comes to Edward C. Lynn's connections and what he was doing, you know, in his everyday life, in his work. And I can't blame him. I wish we could talk to Edward C. Lin, just to kind of clear the air, even if he's not the leaker, even if he's not the guy that put this out there.

And we're completely wrong about that. We'd still love to talk to him and say, well, if it's not you, can you tell us why it's not you? Why are we wrong about this? So, I mean, I don't know if he'll ever come out and talk, as you heard from there, myself, and Ashton, you know, if he is the guy, the risks that would be involved are obviously monumental, you know, could they try to charge him again? just because of the way they were different things, it would be outside of the realm of double jeopardy. Who knows?

Or are they threatening his life? Are they threatening his family's life? These are all conjectures. I have no idea. Never spoken to the guy. No idea what's happening in the background in this situation. But Ashton absolutely brings up some really fascinating and thought-provoking points there as to,

if it is Edward C. Lin, why hasn't he come out? And why hasn't he refuted anything as well? He just stays completely silent. I mean, I'm not going to lie. I really am such a big nerd. I can talk about the physics side of this when it comes to the plasma, the free energy, you know, how the propulsion would work with zero point energy and all these different things that Ashton brings up with the Casimir effect and all this different stuff. I really do find that so, so intriguing. And I wish I had the time to dig into all that stuff more. But that's why I bring on Ashton because he can let us know. And I learn something new every single time he comes on. So if you're in Ashton, lover and Ashton Hater one way or another, I hope you did enjoy this interview because I absolutely did and I hope you enjoy part two, which will, again, shooting for that to come out on Thursday. And what you can look forward to in that second part is we kind of finish off that part of the conversation where you heard us left off. So we kind of end that part of the conversation.

So we'll pick it back up there to start off part two. But then we get into a couple of the other things like the Matthew Livelsberger situation with Sean Ryan. We get into that. You heard me mention that at the very beginning of the discussion with Ashton Forbes. We talk about the incoming Trump administration and what their plans might be when it comes to disclosure on their end. Is there anything that they're planning? And what are we going to find out about these drones? We go into what incoming President Trump had to say about that just last week, where he caught a lot of people off guard saying that he'll reveal the truth behind the drones on January 21st. So we get into some of that, whether or not that's going to happen.

If it does happen, what should we expect? Really good stuff there. We talk a little bit about Elon Musk as well. What he may or may not know when it comes to this discussion and the interactions that Ashton has had with Elon Musk. Really good stuff. So looking forward to getting Part 2 out to you as well on Thursday. And I'm going to work on, this is just a final note here before we're done for today. I came across some information very recently about, and it's really funny because I ask Ashton the question,

do you know of any other scenarios like this, occurrences like this, where there are orbs seemingly teleporting something and going into this formation? And he said, no, you know, I don't know of any other videos like this. This is one of a kind. There might be another instance, like we saw in these MH3, 70 videos that I literally just learned about after Ashton and I were speaking, we recorded this on Friday. And there was some information that I came across that was really quite startling.

And I was beside myself because I thought, this is incredible. How am I finding this out right now? I just talked to Ashton about this two hours ago. And now I'm finding something new out about some possible orb formations that did something seemingly impossible and that supposedly just happened like last year. It's something completely new. It's never been reported on. And I don't want to go into too many specifics because I have more questions that I need to ask first before I presented to you. And this is the first time I'm even mentioning the fact that I have come across this information. I was going to tweet it out over

the weekend, but I really let it simmer because I've been trying to figure out how do I even present this. So I'm just letting you know that I'm working on. answering some questions before giving you some new information on another possible type of MH370 scenario. It doesn't have to do with teleporting an airplane. Okay, that's one of a kind. I'm just going to put that out there right now. But there is some similar technology that was possibly seen recently. So I'll leave it at that, and I'm going to find out some more on my end to kind of fill in the blanks and hopefully have a full update on this incredible report that I was given just a few days ago. So not to keep you in suspense, but I just wanted to kind of let you know that's out there.

I'm going to work on that so I can give you a full report on it. Hopefully in part two in the next few days right here on UAP. It's a crazy story. I'm just going to let you know that right now. It's absolutely crazy story. But until next time, right here on UAP, again, I'm sorry for it to hold you in suspense. But yeah, I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything.

I don't know. But that's it for now. It's Stephen Deiner here on UAP. Thank you again so much for always tuning in. Download and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts and all the major outlets, Spotify, Apple. Shout out because UAP has made its way up the charts I've seen recently. So that's really cool as far as like, you know, top 20 on Spotify and like the different categories and everything like that. It's pretty crazy to see UAP up there with some of these other names and some of these other shows.

And that's all because of you. so thank you so much for taking to the show like you have and you continue to do so and it's i can't say enough of as far as my gratitude for that so thank you so much and hopefully you continue to come back and leave any messages you like on social media can follow me at ua podcast 850 uh throughout social media at ua podcast 850 especially on twitter is where i'm most active and you can email me if you like and of course any direct messages through social i get back to as well but if you want to send a direct message through email it's s D-I-E-N-E-R-U-A-P at g-M-L.com.

So S-D-D-N-R-U-A-P at g-M-L-com is where you can send me an email as well if you'd like to do that. But that is it for now here on UAP. Another crazy edition, episode 104 coming up in a few days to finish off here Part 2 with Ashton Forbes. Until then, be well. Thank you so much. It's Stephen Deener here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast.