UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 131 Lue Elizondo Interview part 2

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

Stephen Diener concludes this exclusive interview with Lue Elizondo as they discuss what President Trump may know about the truth surrounding UFOs and what might cause him to hold back on releasing that info. Plus, if this was Lue's final interview, what's the last thing he would like to say to everyone? His unique answer may surprise you. All of this and so much more on this episode 131 of UAP...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Grab the Dave and Mahoney podcast now on Apple Podcasts on Spotify and at daven Mahoney.com. Welcome back in to you AP. Stephen Dean are back with you here, as always, on the Unidentified Alien podcast. And happy to be back with you for episode 131. Been a pretty interesting week to say the least, a lot of reaction to my part one interview with Louelizondo. And again, very appreciative to have him on here. And I knew it was going to be a lightning rod subject. to have on Lou Elizondo here on the show.

And in fact, he said it to me himself. After Lou and I were done speaking, recording this entire thing, he said to me off the camera, off the recording, he said, dude, I hope you're ready for the blowback. I said, I know. I understand how it goes because he is, he is, you know, kind of a polarizing figure these days. And that's just, just comes to the territory, I suppose,

for both him, as far as being polarizing and myself, with one interviewing him, that blowback. is to be expected. And also, I don't want to gloss over all the positive comments as well, because I think more than anything, there's been a lot of positive feedback from it. But with anybody like Uelizondo, there's always going to be a lot of opinions out there, negative and positive. So that's just the way it goes here on UAP. But the bottom line is, I appreciate you listening. I'm glad you got to hear part one. And I look forward to bringing part two here today

to finish off this conversation. And I'm honored to bring this story. stuff to you because it wasn't exclusive. Lou isn't really talking to anybody else right now. I'm sure I'll pop up again at some point. And, you know, whatever show that might be remains to be seen. But he did say he's taking a break. So this is going to be the last time that we hear from Lou. And maybe, you know, maybe a while.

We'll see how long it takes for him to come back out into the public sphere and do another interview or show up with Congress, whatever it might be, but might be doing some behind the scenes things here for a while. So I look forward to bringing you this second part. we get into it, just to set the table here real quick and put out the plates in the silverware, we pretty much pick up right where we left off. I had asked them, is there anything that kind of sticks with you that you wish you could put out there and you kind of walk around and you say to yourself, man, I really wish I could talk about this. And he said, yes, absolutely. And that's

where we ended part one. So we're going to pick up right where we left off right there. He starts talking about, he gets into his book that he wrote Eminent, which was a number one bestseller on the New York Times list. Congratulations on that. That must be awesome to have on your resume. But he gets into that, kind of being the explanation as to how he was able to use that as an outlet to say a lot of those things that he's wanted to say. And I won't give away too much of his answer there, but you're going to hear that part

first. And then we get into his opinion on the relationship between citizen disclosure and government disclosure. Should we focus on one or favor one over the other? And a lot of people talk about that. They say, well, we shouldn't trust the government with anything. We just need citizen disclosure to push us forward. That's the only way this is going to come out. And then the other part says, well, it's never going to become official until the government, you know, comes out and and says this is what's happening. So it's that pull and push, that give and take. And so we talk about that relationship a little bit. And I thought it was a really, really cool perspective from Lou. Because, you know,

he's part of both kind of actually. So it's good to get his perspective on that. Then we do get into the presidential side of things. I ask him about what Trump might know, what he might do about it. And again, the perspective that he's able to give is so unique being on both sides. That is just such a great answer. And one that I didn't even consider on what that might look like when it comes to having a disclosure president in Trump. And if that might happen, again, what he might happen.

again, what he might know, how does he handle it? It all kind of comes together. So again, don't want to get too much away, but we get into all that. We even get into zero point energy. Ask Lou about that. It's a little dodgy, but I'll let you hear it. And then his final thoughts, which I think you might find unique. It wasn't an answer that I was expecting to hear.

And it's based off of a question, the final question I asked about, what would you want to tell somebody if this was your last interview? What's the last thing you would want to say? and that's how the interview ends. And so I'll let you get to all of that here right now with part two of my conversation with Louelizondo. And then we'll come back with some final thoughts, some reactions before we wrap up here today in a preview of what is to come next on UAP. Because we ain't slowing down, not at all, not at all. Plenty still to come next time on UAP.

But for now, enjoy this part two with myself and Lou Elizando right here on UAP. And this is why, you know, I tell people, people say, oh, you write a book and you're grifting. No. The purpose of a book is it's indelible. Once you write it down and it goes through Pentagon and review process, it is now real. The government has reviewed and has okayed me to talk about it, right? I couldn't have done that when I first came out in 2017. I had to wait for the battle space to open up and to be more sympathetic to what we

were trying to do. And so one of those ways you get the truth out is you, you write it down. You memorialize it in writing because long after I'm gone, you know, and these electrons that you and I are sharing over this podcast, you know, if someone doesn't access that, you know, writing is different. Writing is indelible. It's the reason why the Egyptians had hieroglyphics and why the ancient Greeks wrote things down as well and papyrus and whatnot, because it becomes immortal. It becomes, it becomes indelible, just like the Declaration of Independence, just like the Magna Carta, right? We write these things down, so they are permanent record. And very much for me, the vehicle that I chose to use was a book because I knew ahead of time

the government would be forced to do one of two things, either say, yes, you can talk about it, or no, you can't. And in my particular case, they actually still chose to redact certain things. But there were things in there that I pushed the boundary on. I wasn't sure if they're going to let slide. And guess what? They did. So now we can actually talk about it because the government just says, this is no longer classified.

Well, if that's the case, holy crap, that's great. And so that's how you legally push the boundaries. People say, well, you're a whistleblower. Come forward and tell us everything you know. Well, that's not effective because then I go to jail. And then if I go to jail, you'll never hear from me again. And won't have any more discussion much, will we? So I say, for the record, I don't look good in an orange jumpsuit.

I want to do things the right way. And I don't want to break the system to fix the system. We don't have to in this case. I tell people all the time, an analogy I like to use it because I'm a gearhead. Most people know, I've got a garage full of vehicles that I work on and tinker with. A lot of times when you have a broken water pump, you take it to the mechanic and you leave your car for the day. And he or she might say, okay, you need a new belt and a new hose and new water pump. And off you go the next day.

this is not the case. We can't do that with government. We can't stop the government to fix this. This is like having a broken water pump while you're doing 80 miles an hour down on the highway and having to fix it while you're driving it. And it's a little more complicated. It's a little more difficult. And that's why this conversation is so so tough because there are some proverbial landmines we have to be careful of. And if we're not careful, it can set us back significantly, something that I am hyper aware of over and over again, right? So I think, yeah, I think we need to fix it without breaking it. And I think we are doing it. I think we're doing it. And I think people now are beginning to come to the steady realization that we're not alone, whatever that means. You know, at that point, it becomes a conversation for the people to have, not Lou Elizondo, because that's not my area of expertise, much beyond that. What are your thoughts on the distinction between citizen disclosure and government disclosure? And I know because I see a lot of people say, well, government disclosure is not going to get us anywhere.

It has to be a citizen push, you know, what we do on podcasts, when we interview people, whistleblowers, anything along those lines. And some people say it's just never going to happen on the government end. Other people say, well, it has to be official with the government. Should we put a distinction between the Tulu or do you think that they should work together or do you favor one over the other? Yeah, Stephen. mean, just said it yourself. The two go hand in hand. You have to have both. It's a push-pull relationship. That's the only formula for success. That's it. And this is why long time ago, people were, you know, accusing me of having some sort of evil plan with Chris Mellon to try to

have this conversation our way. No, there's a very easy way to do this. And it's no different than having a military or an intelligence campaign when you're trying to do something in a foreign country. Look, the bottom line, you have to identify the touch points if you want something to work. And in the history of this topic, we looked at and we realized that it was disjointed. And the five, if you want to call them columns of emphasis, are legislative engagement. You've got to engage the people in our Congress so they know it's real, so they can make laws and approve budgets to look into it. You have to engage the executive branch because the executive branch is not doing a good job of talking amongst themselves about this topic and there are equities and assets that can be leveraged

and then combined with other organizations to really give you a better site picture of what you're looking at. Then you have international engagement. We have to talk to our partners and allies on this topic. Why? Because we know that NATO has encountered these. We know that the UK and the Canadians have the same issue we do. In Australia, we have to work together. And then the fourth column of emphasis has been media engagement. You've got to get the media involved because that's going to put significant pressure on both the legislative and executive branches to remain open and transparent, right? There's nothing worse than bad media, and so they want to be on the good side of media. And the media has to know that it's a legitimate topic to discuss. Before 2017, it would have been

considered career suicide if you were as a journalist to take this topic seriously, right? So you've got to get them engaged. And then last but not least, and certainly perhaps the most important, public engagement, right? Take it to the streets because ultimately that is going to put pressure on all four other columns, legislative branch, executive branch, international friends and allies, and the media. If any one of those realizes the public's engage, that's like a force multiplier. And so you have to have the public engagement as part of this disclosure process because frankly, the public's got some pretty good ideas sometimes that the government didn't consider before. And so there's been a lot of great ideas that we've been able to incorporate having public engagement.

And ultimately, that is the ethos of a democracy, is it not? Right. Getting the people engage and being captains of their own destiny. And so this is why, I think, to answer your question, you need both. You need disclosure from the government and disclosure from private citizens. And there's data that private citizens have. They've done a pretty good job over the years of collecting data. That could be very useful and valuable to the American government.

Very helpful. And vice versa. There's information that the government has that can help engage the private citizens, whether you're in the scientific community or you're in the academic communities, to help further understanding as well, right? And minimize fear and paranoia and instead encourage scientific and academic rigor. You know, there's something that sticks with me. when we talk about the executive side of things, Lou, obviously with President Trump now, a lot of people have questions about what has he been told, what is he interested in?

Will he be a disclosure president or push for these things behind the scenes? There's something that sticks with me, and I want to get your take on it. During the campaign, when he went on to Joe Rogan, obviously that interview has been viewed and listened to many, many times over by many people. And Joe Rogan asked him about this subject, and he asked him, do you know about it? What, you know, have you been told about this? And to me, President Trump's answer at that point, candidate Trump, he said, yeah, and kind of just like slumped down a little bit. It looked a little bit somber. And then they went back and forth a little bit.

And Joe asked a couple more questions. And that's just something that personally sticks with me. And I wonder, is there anything in your mind that you know about when it comes to President Trump that he has been told about this and just hasn't elaborated on in the public sphere? Wow. Okay, so remember I said there's a topic. There's topics here that have a lot of landmines. So let me see if I can navigate this and not have the pie blow up in my face again. The best you can. The best you can. Yeah, all right. Here we go. You know, I know I'm going to beg for this. Look, let's, I know it's hard to do, but let's take politics aside. Okay. Whether you love Trump, you hate Trump, you're in the middle of the fence. It doesn't matter right. Let's let's take it. Let's pull it apart a little bit. President Trump is ahead of the executive branch and the senior law enforcement official. He is responsible for executing the will and guidance of the people vis-a-vis the Congress. That's his job. And like all people, some people have their strengths and some people have their weaknesses.

So he is just a person, and we forget that, right? And again, whether you love him or hate him, at the end of the day, he's a human being just like you and me. and his job is to put as many advisors, qualified advisors, around him that he can as experts, subject matter experts. Sometimes people fall short. But in this particular case, President Trump has chosen a very interesting cabinet. And I would encourage people, rather than looking too much into what President Trump is saying, look at what he is doing.

He has several individuals on his cabinet member. I am not really going to call them out by name. I don't like it. But most people, when it said, I don't thought I don't like them. I just, I don't like to call people out by name unless they voluntarily want me to share their information. But there's people at a senior level, several that are very pro-transparency and disclosure from a national security perspective, right?

Because once we acknowledge these things are real and we are okay with, with that, there's a lot of people that have these little funny devices in their hands called cell phones with cameras, right? And maybe there's some good data out there that we could use, you know, from the private sector that could be very helpful in us understanding certain aspects of this topic. I think, and that includes biological as well, biological effects of these things. You need to public's help with that, I think. And so you've got key people around this cabinet that are proactively assisting Congress in their pursuit of information. you see a reversal, 180 degree change from the last arrow director to this arrow director in what they're saying publicly about this topic, right?

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He knows every word he is saying is being transmitted and broadcast and analyzed by everyone around the world to include our adversaries, right? So are we ready yet truly to tip our hat and say or tip our hand and say, this is what we know and what we don't know, especially if another foreign adversary may be ahead of us. The fact that Russia and China both have admitted they have their own UFO, their own UAP programs, are we ready to have that conversation? Or maybe do we want to hold off a little bit longer? Let's get everybody in consensus. Make sure the folks in Congress who are handling this agree with us. Let's make sure that the cabinet members agree with us and that their experts and their organizations also agree with this, right?

because you don't have someone like, let's say, hypothetically, or a director of national intelligence giving a recommendation to the president without the DNI themselves being provided recommendations by analysts, right? The DNI or the director of the CIA or the director of NSA, they're not necessarily analytic experts. They're the experts in management and performing the job of a director. But it's up to the individual subject matter experts, the analysts themselves and the collectors, to make recommendations to a director of the CIA or a director of the national intelligence or a director of the FBI, right? And then they give that recommendation to the best of their ability to the president. So a lot of people, I think, are under the misunderstanding that the president is just there and making decisions off the hip.

There's an entire entire ecosystem of people and experts that are working thousands upon thousands of man hours. for one single problem set. And that has to percolate up eventually to the top of the pyramid. And, you know, it's not easy. It's not easy. And so President Trump, I think, is doing what he can on this topic to the best of his ability. I'm very encouraged by some of the people he has chosen for cabinet member picks. Again, politics aside from a disclosure perspective, I don't think.

we've ever had a cabinet like this i don't think we've ever had look you have the creation of a of a of a secrecy task force in congress right that is supported president says i love this thing let's get to the bottom of jfk files let's get to the bottom of the ufo files let's get to the bottom of the of the martin luther king assassination and tell the people right let's let's do this this this public court so everybody can see it when was that ever done before yeah again politics aside Don't be, oh, lose, you know, this or lose that. People are very quick to put me into a little category. And they have no idea my political affiliation.

They will assume all the time because they see the patches behind me and the American flag, you know, things. But they're assuming. People do not know. And I don't talk about my political affiliation because it doesn't matter, really. What matters is what's actually being done for the benefit of the American people. And I have worked for presidents on both sides. I work for presidents that were conservative. I work for presidents that were liberal.

And at the end of the day, my job is to serve a president, whoever's president is. That was my job. You know, and I didn't care about politics. I cared about leadership. And so in this particular case, I think people should be very encouraged, you know, whatever you may think about President Trump, good or bad or indifferent, there's a lot of good coming right now on this topic from this current presidency. Now, well, at last, I don't know.

But what I am seeing right now, I'm very encouraged. And again, the people that he has in very select positions right now at the cabinet level are doing a hell of a job. I mean, I'm telling you, if the American people knew what some of these folks were doing and how they were working hard, I mean, by the way,

some of these people have been trashed by the American public, unfairly. They are working their asses off on this topic for people and are wanting this information to be shared with Congress,

which is really very unusual. That does not happen because you think they would work together, but a lot of times there tends to be an adversarial relationship between the executive branch and the legislative branch. Why?

because each has their own ideas and interests and ways of doing things. And they don't want interference from either side. And a lot of times you have that interference. So they don't always work well together. In this particular case, they're working very well together. And we need to encourage that. We really need to, if we can, just put away our political bias aside for just a moment. And on this topic, try to come together and some sort of consensus on how we are going to treat.

are elected officials regarding this topic. And by the way, not all elected officials support having this conversation. There are some right now that don't. There are some that have actively blocked legislation in the past. So if you want legislation to be passed on this topic, then you need to support your members of Congress that are championing this cause. You have to.

And that's not my job. That's the American people. That's your job as the American people to do that. You know, I had a conversation. I won't say which lawmaker, but we had a, we had a, over lunch, we were talking. And you have individuals that are now on both sides of the aisle on this particular topic talking, right? Now, take someone, for example, like Representative Tim Burchett from Tennessee, right? And then take someone like AOC, who on the political spectrum, couldn't be more opposite.

And yet on this topic, they agree. And they actually work really well with each other, right? Oh my God. Who would have thought of that? And yet that's exactly what's happening. And instead of criticizing Bershett for talking to AOC or criticizing AOC for talking to Bershett, that's how government's supposed to work. That's the way Congress used to be. You know, you can agree to disagree and still be friends.

This is why it's important to have Congress together. This really goes all the way back to the beginning of this conversation we had, you know, an hour ago. which is why did we do what we did? Why did we go to Congress? Why did we have this panel of experts with Congress there? Because it was important to show the American people that Congress does work, that Congress can work together. And as divisive as our political spheres may be these days,

there are still these beautiful moments where people can agree on something for the betterment of humanity, for the betterment of society, for the betterment of our species. And it would be wonderful if we could start to see this on a global scale, right? Imagine that, the United Nations coming together and finishing what people started in 1978, which would be some sort of UN resolution to establish a united front on investigating this incredible phenomenon. So anyways, I know I'm long winded, sorry, brother, but you ask me a question that I got to make sure I, you know, it's absolutely. The questions you're asking me are very, they require a lengthy response because they're not just a yes or no. And they're not easy questions. You're putting a lot of thought behind this and I want to give you a complete response.

Absolutely. No, and I totally appreciate that. So, so thank you. And a few more because I know we're only have, you know, some time left here. but when it comes to the, I guess the team that the president has surrounded himself with, I know just a couple names that come to mind, and I'll throw this out there hypothetically. You don't have to confirm or deny. But when I just think about the Director of National Intelligence, you mentioned that department with Tulsi Gabbard, you mentioned the CIA with John Rackcliffe, just in those two. So in this hypothetical, and maybe even Cash Patel at the FBI, you know,

if you want to use those names as a hypothetical, and they come up to the president all at the same time, and an emergency cabinet meeting, and we say, sir, we recommend based on our advisors and based on our investigations that this is the right move to come out to the American people, now is the right time to say this is real, there's other life, there's other craft, we're looking into it, we'll try to establish some contact, whatever that might be, and now is the time to do it? If that were to take place, do you think, again, I know put yourself in the shoes and speak for the president, but just in your own opinion and your experiences of dealing with these people in Washington, do you see, that situation where President Trump would say, yes, okay, do you see him being that type of president, that type of person that would come out and say, yes, I am actually, because of your recommendations, I'm going to come out and tell the American people this is going on.

So like I said before, I would never certainly want to speak on anyone's behalf. So let me change a scenario just slightly to answer your question, maybe a little more comprehensively. Let's just pretend for a moment I was the Director of National Intelligence, and I was briefing you, the president of the United States. and I was working with my director of FBI and the Pentagon and other organizations and the CIA, I would come out and say, Mr. President, here is the baseline understanding of what we know, historically up and up to now.

Here is what foreign adversaries are doing up to now. And here's the ground truth. Now, the reality is that here's some information gaps. There's still a lot we don't know. And here they are, A, B, C, D, E, F, and G. We believe that maybe foreign adversary over there or over there may actually have succeeded in understanding some of these things that we don't, right? Furthermore, I think we're probably going to have to have a bigger conversation about this

because there are elements of this topic that are potentially a liability, that we need to figure out legally before you have this conversation. publicly. But what do you mean, Mr. Alessandro? What do you mean legal issues? Well, you know, it turns out that there is in the U.S. government requirement for free and fair competition between companies. And so let's say back in the 1950s, I don't know, 1960s, there's company A and company B aerospace corporation and some general in the Pentagon in the Air Force decides to say, you know what, I'm going to give company A a little piece of material to study for me, because it's very interesting.

And I'm not going to tell company B. So what happens 10 years later, company A becomes a multi-billion dollar aerospace company, tremendous value and assets. Company B goes bankrupt. 200 people lose their jobs, and more importantly, the investors, who were in this company, lose their investment, right?

So you have SEC violation, security exchange commissions, violations, and legal issues that could tally up into the billions, if not over years, trillions of dollars worth of liability, making company A, have to potentially go bankrupt unless there's a way you can insulate them and protect them from some of these old liabilities that occurred. And then you've got the people, depending on that, we're making those decisions, to not inform Congress. What do we do with those people? Those people who knew this topic was legit and we were studying it, but never informed Congress, never informed the president, right?

Or the gang of six and the people that have a need to know. What do you do with them? I mean, do you throw them in jail, haul them up and embarrass them in front of a public hearing like a lot of people want? I know people want their pound of flesh on this. Yeah, see, we were right. But I don't think that's the right approach. I think we need something like truth and reconciliation. I think what we need to do in the incentive, them to come forward. I think we need to give them awards, lifetime achievement awards, and say, thank you for what you're doing.

You're a hero. But at the end of the sunset time, sunset clause, right? You put this out. Say, if you were part of something, come on out and tell us in a secure environment. But if you find out in a year and a half afterwards that you're a part of something and you didn't tell us, now we're going to have a different conversation. Now we're going to have, it's not going to be as friendly this time. And then maybe you do have something to worry about. So there's a lot of things to consider.

And so what I would recommend to the president, I would say, hey, boss, my suggestion is to be noncommittal right now. Let us get a handle on a few more bites here. Don't say that. Don't say that they're not real. Can't say that anymore. But when asked, just be noncommittal and say we're looking into it because there's a lot of gaps that we have that we want to make sure that we want to make sure that other adversaries don't don't know something that we don't. And what we don't want to do is broadcast our position, right? And we don't want to lie to the American people.

So don't do that. And that would be my advice to you as a president, you know, and it's not that we're trying to be secret and keep information with the American people, but there are real national security equities at stake, right, that we have to pay attention to. Or, hey, boss, guess what? We just got this, look at this UAP incident. We just got on this super secret capability that we have that nobody knows we have and nobody knows where it is. And look what we just got, right? How do you have that conversation with the American people and say,

oh, look at this without giving away what you were doing? And what were you doing there in the first place, right? And giving a lot of other secrets away. So it's not an easy solution. And this is why I think, you know, in this particular case, slow and steady wins the race. We're getting there. People are getting the disclosure that they're looking for.

They may not getting it exactly the way they wanted it or perhaps when they wanted it. But it's coming. It's coming out every day, more and more information. If you were to have, if you were to go back in a time capsule and go back to eight years ago, pre-2017, and someone were to tell you in the next eight years, you're going to have all these people come out and the government telling you it's real. You're going to have an organization set up to investigate it. You're going to have laws on the books. You're going to have international partnerships.

and agreements and bilateral relationships between countries, on UFOs, you're going to have videos release, you're going to have reports release, you're going to have annual reports to Congress. People would tell you're crazy. There's no way we're going to get that far down the road in disclosure in eight years, and yet here we are. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Death Wish Coffee,

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We forget how far we've come. Now, we've got a long ways to go. but we've come a hell of a way, a long way in just eight years. And so, you know, what I try to tell people is just try to be patient, try to be patient. You know, and if you're really impatient, come on board, be part of the process. Help us out, you know. You don't have to be into peanut galleries. There's nothing stopping anyone from getting on a plane, driving to Washington, D.C.,

making the point with member of Congress and talking to them and telling them why it's important, write a letter, writing an email, give them a call, right? instead of the armchair quarterbacking that we see all the time every time someone doesn't agree with the way something was executed, you know, well, if you can do it better, do it better. There's nothing stopping you. No one, none of us are telling you not to do it. We're telling you do it. We want you to. I'll finish off with this.

I did want to ask you before we were done about the idea, the theories surrounding zero point energy. And when it comes to things like the Tick-Tac video or these different videos of orbs and all these. different, you know, advanced technologies. There's theories, as you know, that what people are seeing are half extraterrestrial and half secret U.S. tech based off of reverse engineering and using some type of zero point energy that's been reverse engineered from the extraterrestrial technology. How much of that do you think, Lou, people are seen as far as U.S. tech and zero point energy and extraterrestrial?

Is there something there with zero point energy? Well, look, I'm going to give you a very gross generalization. I am not a physicist. I took physics in college and mathematics, but nowhere would I ever tell anybody that I am an expert in physics. I understand conceptually physics and even some advanced physics, but I'm not a physicist. There has been lots of discussion about the notion of vacuum energy. But we, even as a species, forget a vacuum energy, forget about dark energy, just energy itself. Energy is defined as the ability to do work, right? We really don't understand energy very well. What is it, right? Is it electromagnetic?

Is it physical? Well, yes. Yes. Well, is it part of the radio frequency? Well, yes. well, what is it? And it's hard to put your finger on it. Is it a particle?

Is it a feel? Is it a wave? Right? And so we've been trying to understand what actually energy is just like gravity. We still don't have a real understanding of what gravity is. And yet it affects everything we do. It's right there in front of you. And we still don't know what the hell it is.

Right. So there are physicists who believe that there are, So let's go into it. Let's take a three foot by three foot by three foot cube, square cube. Imagine you had this plexiglass cube and you take everything out of it. And I mean everything, not just the material in there, but the gas. It's just a vacuum. It's just there's nothing there.

There's nothing inside this volume. So there are detectors that we have, neutrino detectors and also some of the, detectors to detect vacuum energy, which is the idea that matter can actually pop in and out of existence at random anytime. Now, it's hard to understand, but in reality, imagine this cube that we have, this volume of cube, where a particle of matter and a particle of antimatter will appear instantly and annihilate each other. And in that annihilation, they give off a photon of light and you can detect that light. And in doing so, that is energy. That is energy. It is, it is, there is, in order for when matter and antimatter collide and annihilate each other, it releases

energy. There's a lot more work we need to do, but the idea that these UAP may have been able to harness it. There's been other theories that they're using water potentially and for various different reasons as a source of fuel. And maybe that would explain why they have this affinity to large bodies of water. And others have speculated know that they are exploiting the vacuum energy, the quantum energy in our universe that's there. It's just like this humming, this buzzing, this hissing noise of energy that we literally are swimming through all of us. And so is it possible that these UAPF somehow managed to to capitalize on that, harnessing that energy and creating a bubble around the craft that basically insulates itself from,

from Earth's effects of space time warping? And let me caveat, okay, because I'm getting good at caveatting here. And so let me state this for record. I am not a physicist, okay? So some physicist comes down there, well, actually, you said it was an up quark when it was a down quark. Look, I got it. Okay. My background's microbiology and immunology.

So, you know, I did sleep at a holiday and express last night, but that does not make me an expert in physics. So I am sure someone out there is going to have, you know, a much better explanation than I do. So please feel free to provide that, but I am not trying to pretend to be a physicist here. No, and that's totally fair. And I think, and it just goes to the question, right, of what is it possible? The physicists that have been working, say, at, you know, different contractors or whatever, whatever it may be, have figured some of that stuff out and use it to reverse engineer technologies, you know, to have that half and half of what people are seeing.

The question remains. So I'll get you out of here on this, Lou. If make believe this was your last interview ever, no one else is ever going to interview Lou Elizondo for the rest of time. What's the one thing? You promise? Unless you come back on here. But other than that.

Please don't tease me like that, brother. Please don't teach you like that. Maybe one day. Maybe one day. If this was, what's the last thing? What's the one thing that you would want people to take away from what you want them to know about the UAP topic? Man. Wow.

So firstly, let me thank you for asking that very thoughtful question. And then let me state my response may evolve over time. There's lessons learned here as individuals. There's lessons learned here as societies, and there's lessons learned here as a species. People used to ask me, if I want to learn more about UFOs, what's your recommendation, Lou? And I would tell people, go home, hug your kids, kiss your spouse, if you have one, make a nice dinner for the family, and have a conversation about how much dinner. much you love them over the dinner table. If you want to understand up there or out there or

whatever UAP is, you first have to understand right here. How do we how do we operate? What motivates us? What is important to us as individuals? And I would say to you that at the end of the day, it's not about that. It's about it's about love. I've told people, before there are I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna answer your question with a question that was asked to me probably about two months ago another very thoughtful question someone said to me and I just now started sharing this not too long ago someone said to me I was giving a little little talk and someone said Lou if you had a chance to talk to an NHI and you could only ask one question only one

what would it be and I responded by saying I would ask if it has the capacity to love. Now, a lot of people look at it, they go, oh, that's so sweet. But there's also a very real practical reason for that. There are two major motivations for human behavior. 95% in fact, of what we do as a species are a result of two motivations. One is love and one is fear. Fear is what drives human beings to guard resources,

selfishness, war, racism, and hatred. That's what fear does. Love is why a mother will run out in oncoming traffic facing sure death to save her child from being run over. Love is why we fight wars ironically enough. We go to war because of fear, but we fight wars because of love. We love our country. We love our freedom. We love our families, right? Love is selflessness and sacrifice. And so if you come face to face with an NHI and it has the capacity to love, then maybe we have a way to relate. And maybe love is really universal. Maybe it's a universal thread throughout the cosmos shared by other intelligent things. And we have common ground. We may not speak the same languages or even feel the same way. But if it loves, that's a fundamental understanding that we

understand. And that is the basis, the building blocks for trust and growth and evolution. Fear, if it doesn't have the ability to love, and it's more like artificial intelligence, and it's just information in, information out, then for me, my fear in this is that then maybe we really are special. Maybe love is unique to us. Love is is what makes us sacred and sentient and conscious. And so back to your question itself, if I were to leave anybody with anything, it would not be about me. I am irrelevant. I'm just a messenger. I would say to people, if you want to focus on understanding NIH and understanding UFOs,

first understand your children. Find out who little Johnny or little Jane sits to next to in lunch or in second period math class. Most Americans can tell you who the quarterback is of their favorite team and their stats. Very few parents can tell you the stats of their children, right? What grade did they get in their last spelling test? That is the most important thing we can do.

It's not even about UFOs. It's about us. Being better to one another, being a contributing member to society in whatever capacity you can. Sometimes it's through charities. Sometimes it's through volunteering. Sometimes it's through many ways. Sometimes it's just, you know what? There is a homeless person on the side of the road and you've got to

spare five bucks in your wallet, you know, buy that person a meal. Because that's what makes us human. That is so important. And that is what drives, again, fear and love. And maybe if we start looking through the lens of love a little more often, who knows? Maybe this phenomenon will present itself better. Maybe it will decide to present itself. Maybe we're the reasons why it's been so elusive. We, us, accepting responsibility for that. So, yeah, it's probably not the answer you're looking for, but it's the answer I'll give because it's the answer I feel. No, very cool. And that's all we can ask for us. Hey, it's your answer, not mine. So I want to get your answer. And I appreciate that. It's very honest and open answer.

And that's exactly what I'm looking for is you give that honest and open answer. And I appreciate that. And I think everybody else will as well. I'll share something with you, by the way. Yeah. And I just noticed this, a little bit of levity here. I've been using these glasses because I've got poor vision. I'm, you know, old guy.

I tell people Moses and I were in basic training together, you know, we're using spears and slingshots. But my vision is very. So I wear these little glasses. And they've been, for the last few interviews I did, they're, I noticed her on my head crooked. Well, I just realized it's not the glasses. I think one of my ears is higher than the other because that's straight. But it's not on my ear straight. And this one is. And I'm telling you, this is now the fourth time. And I just realized this. I think my head is asymmetrical. I think one of my ears is higher than the other. I'm not kidding. So thank you for now. Now, if I wasn't

self-conscious before, now I really am. But I'm sorry if this has been a distraction for people that may be listening or watching your interview, but the reality is, I think, I think my head is warped. I think my head's crooked. Listen, this is, this is an, a UAP exclusive. Lou Elizando has revealed that he is the crooked head. I don't, yeah, I think that that's weird. You know, it might explain a lot of things, I guess, but that's great. No, good stuff, Lou. I can't, you know, appreciate enough. I can't say thank you enough for spending the extra time to just for, you know, in the interest of full disclosure, we've gone about 15 minutes over the lot of time that we agree to. So I appreciate that. I appreciate the extra time and coming on

here to speak on UAP and answer the questions, open and honestly to the best of your knowledge. And I hope we can do it again in the future. This has been great. Stephen, I appreciate it. And I hope you continue to do this in the future with or without me. You're making a difference in your audience is making a difference. Every single person right now that's listening to my voice on your podcast, know this. You are making a difference. People say, oh, no, no, no, what am I really doing? You're interested. You're driving, stats, people look at that. When you have a video that comes out about UAP and 100,000 people look at it in the course of 24, 48, 72 hours, you're making a signal to people in Congress and people in our

government that interest is only increasing, not decreasing, and that the public is demanding transparency on this topic. So that would be my word of advice to everybody out there in your audience. doing what you're doing. You, Stephen, keep doing what you're doing. Get all sides, you know, be fearless in your pursuit of the truth. So, absolutely. Thank you for what you're doing. Thank you, Lou, Louelizondo here on UAP. Talk again soon. Thank you, Lou. My honor and privilege. There's a moment when you start to wonder, what's the right next step? Not about changing who they are, just finding the right kind of support. At Kingsley Manor, life stays expressive, connected, and full of character shaped by people who have lived interesting lives and aren't finished yet.

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super busy. He's very, very high in demand, doesn't say yes to every interview by any means. And the fact that he took the time out an hour and a half of his own time, actually was closer to two hours. We agreed on an hour and a half, but it was closer to two hours that we actually spoke. Even after we got, we spoke for another 10 or 15 minutes off camera, off recording after we were done. So just from that aspect, from that angle alone, I just want to say thanks so much again to Lou and to his wife, by the way, because she helped to set this up, and to Dan Warren, who I mentioned in part one, everybody involved to help set up this interview. It wasn't easy, worked on it for a couple of months, and I'm glad I got to do it, because the reason why

I wanted to have with Lou Elizando is not because he's, you know, this polarizing figure or because it's going to create all this chatter or whatever, whatever chatter it might create. I want to bring the information to you. That's always been my number one goal with you. I want to bring the stories. I want to bring the perspectives from everybody from all sides. And I've reached out to skeptics before. I've tried several times to have on somebody like Mick West, who was like, you know, Mr. King's skeptic himself and he just refuses.

I've asked him numerous times. No, no, I'm not going to do it. I want to bring somebody on who has a perspective, who has information, who has an inside look about what is going on behind the scenes and what kind of. light, can they shed on this conversation? So that way I can bring that to you. That's why I want to have on Lou Elizano so badly. Obviously, to my personal standpoint, if I'm to be an extremely interesting person,

I followed him his career since he started on the history channel with his show with Christopher Mellon and even told him this off the camera, I said, you know, because of that show, that actually helped me to gain confidence in saying, well, if this guy, Luelizondo, and this guy, Christopher Mellon, are talking on the history channel. all about this stuff. And they seem like pretty serious dudes. Maybe I can have my own show and not worry about what people might think and call me crazy. Oh, Stephen, I can't believe we're talking about aliens. What's wrong with you? And that actually helped me to push forward with my own ideas, such as starting UAP back in July of 2021. So, and I told him that and he was appreciative. What

matters is just trying to have the conversation, have that open dialogue, instead of putting each other down, like I see so much on Twitter. And I know Twitter, you know, look, that's just how it works there, and really any social media, but it seems like Twitter is the loudest these days. And that's just how it works. You know, people are going to throw out their opinions and be extremely loud. But the fact of the matter is try to have the open dialogue and just let you decide in the end. That's what it's always been about here on UAP. And hopefully this two-part series has helped to make that happen. All right, so I blabbed down enough about that. I did want to touch on a quote that I wrote down here that's Lou said. I thought it was a really, really poignant

sentence. And it really kind of, I think anyway, encapsulates his entire approach and how he's handled things to this discussion over the past eight years. And it was this sentence here that he said, he said it was, and it was a quote here, because I wrote it down. It goes, I don't want to break the system to fix the system. And I really thought that was just such a great example of how he has handled himself throughout this entire thing. He's not the kind of guy, he's not a catastrophic disclosure type of guy. He's, here's the system. I understand the system. I worked in the system. I left the system. But here's how we can fix it without setting it on fire. And that's what he's been trying to do over the past eight years. And I do give him credit for that. Whether or not you want

to believe him, whether or not you call him any name in the book, he puts himself out there. One way or the other, he puts himself out there. And you got to give somebody credit on that because he puts up with a lot of grief. And that's not easy to do. So, you know, put yourself through something like that, for whatever reason you want to believe, either way, it's not an easy thing to handle or to go through. So kudos on that end for sure. But I absolutely do hope to have him on again in the future. I would welcome that opportunity. And there's so much more that I wanted to ask him.

So I would absolutely welcome the opportunity to speak with Willizondo once again here on UAP. But I really hope you enjoyed this two-part series here this week. And maybe one we can look back on in the future as well. Speaking of the future, what's coming up next? Well, according to my schedule here, and I don't want to over-promise and under-deliver, but I'm just going to tell you what is on the books for next week, or actually in the coming weeks, you're going to hear from Ashton Forbes, including on the next few days next week, if you're listening to this right now

on the release date of Friday, May 16th, or at least over the weekend. So for the week of May 19th, I guess I should frame it as, you're going to hear from Ashton Forbes. Yes, he's coming back. I guess I really like having on polarizing figures. I must really enjoy social media abuse from Twitter trolls. I don't know. But Ashton's coming back on the show next week.

He's gracious enough to spend time on here. Steve Bassett's going to join me on here as well. And I'm really, really looking forward to speaking with another person that I've has been on my shortlist for a few years now. And I'm really happy we're going to be able to talk. And that is Avi Loeb. Avi Loeb is going to join. me for the first time here on UAP.

Super excited to talk to him. You know, I asked Lou about the zero point energy stuff. Of course, I'm going to get into that with Ashton Forbes. But I do look forward to bringing up that point with Avi Lova as well. It's just a brilliant mind when it comes to the physics behind the UFO phenomenon. So a lot of great stuff coming up here on UAP, and I'm so excited that I can bring it to you soon right here on the Unidentified Fighting Alien podcast.

But until then, make sure you continue to download and subscribe to the show where if you get your podcast like I always say Amazon, Apple, Spotify, all those great places. Five-star review would be greatly appreciated if you've never done it before. Also, if you'd like to follow along with all the stuff that I do and say and update on, you can do that on social media. At UA Podcast 850 on TikTok and Twitter. And at you a podcast on YouTube. I'm going to put up the entire unfiltered, unedited version of my interview with

Willisando, one sitting. It's about an hour and 50 minutes. I'm going to put that up on YouTube in the coming days. So if you want to follow along there, it's at UA Podcast on YouTube. And like I said, I always say I'm trying to put more up on there, and that's true. So you can check out some more videos, even full-length episodes of the original episodes that I write. You'll be able to check those out on YouTube as I put those out. Email if you want to email me, because you can always contact me directly through social media as well.

But if you like to email instead, it's S-D-N-U-A-P at g-Mal.com. S-D-I-E-N-E-R-U-A-P at g-mail.com. But until next time, it is Stephen Deiner here saying thanks again so much for everything, for all the kind words, for all the kind messages, for the appreciation, because there is a lot of, well, I don't, I hate to use the word hate. There's a lot of negativity is the best way to put it out there on social media. So I truly appreciate any time I get those kind words from you. But with all that said, until next time.

It is Stephen Deiner here saying, be well. Thanks again so much. We'll talk again soon right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast. Thanks.