UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 133 Ashton Forbes part 2 - Who is Involved in the Disappearance of MH370?

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

During this conclusion to their conversation, Stephen Diener discusses Ashton's recent connection to the SEAL Team 6 member who killed Osama bin Laden, whether or not Ashton fears disinformation agents or any threats on his life, and if MH370 really was teleported, why did "they" do it? All of this and more, right now...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Grab the Dave and Mahoney podcast now on Apple Podcasts on Spotify and at daven Mahoney.com. Welcome back in to you AP. Stephen Dean are here with you as always on this episode 133 of the Unidentified Alien podcast. And we're going to conclude things here today with Ashton Forbes. So yes, this is part two. And I'm happy to be able to bring it to you here today. And again, sorry to anybody who was like screaming at me while listening and being like,

Stephen, please just do one part. Enough with two parts. Sorry. I apologize. It is two parts. But the good news is that you get to hear the rest today. And I'll kid you aside, I am really excited to bring the rest of it here to you right now on this 133rd, I guess, official episode of UAP. Even though there's been a lot more than that, but that's neither here nor there.

Because today we're going to finish up with Ashton talking about Robert J. O'Neill. And who is that? So let me just say we come in right at basically where we left off where I end up asking Ashton. The first thing you're going to hear is Ashton when we come into the interview. But my question to him was about Robert J. O'Neill. Robert J. O'Neill, if you aren't familiar with the name, is the member of SEAL Team 6 who reportedly shot and killed Osama bin Laden during the raid in Pakistan when bin Laden was killed. and amazingly, Ashton very recently has started to develop a conversational relationship with Robert J. O'Neill on Twitter, on X. And so I found that fascinating.

And I thought, well, what the heck is going on there? So my first question to him in this second part is basically, how did this come about? Why are you guys talking? What does it have to do with MH370? How is he interested in this? Why is he interested in it? this man who famously, you know, reportedly killed Osama bin Laden in that raid. And you're talking him now about MH370.

So that caught my attention. And I ask Ashton about that. So as soon as we start off, you're going to hear him responding to that question from me. But outside of that, we also get into some of the big questions about kind of like the scientific method of MH370. Like how could this all be possible to begin with? And we also kind of talk about, I ask Ashton, something that I've thought about. asking him before in the previous times that we've spoken, but I've always been kind of uncomfortable to bring it up because it's, well, it's an uncomfortable question, but I thought I would bring

it up this time. And I asked him, you know, aside from disinformation, because I'm sure you probably have to kind of sift through some possible disinformation here and there and being weary of that when people send you messages or tag you and things. But aside from all that, do you ever fear for your life? You know, if what you're saying, holds true and all this stuff you really are proving something here it's a pretty big deal and you know I can't help but to wonder do you fear for your life with some of these things like some really powerful people coming after you um so we get into that and and I'm glad we did because I thought it was a good conversation even though it was you know a little uncomfortable to bring up we also talk about

some of the really big lingering questions like who was on the plane if this really was a secret U.S. government operation to teleport this thing, to teleport this, you know, still missing flight to this day from March of 2014, then who was on there or what was on there that would maybe once, that would grab the attention of the U.S. government to even teleport the plane? Or did the occupants even matter? Was that part of the reason to do such a thing if that, if it really happened? And, you know, so the why and the who really kind of getting down to the nitty gritty of those everlasting questions. And I was glad to kind of bring that up again with Ashton because I thought the answers were

were pretty thought-provoking. And lastly, we get into, what is that like, ah, finally moment for Ashton? What is that moment? What would it be that would finally have him sit back and say, my job here is done? So we get into all of those things, plus a few others that I want to give every single thing away, but just want to set the table. for you here as we finish off this conversation, myself and Ashton Forbes, starting off with his answer about his recent relationship and conversations to Robert J. O'Neill right here,

right now, on UAP. Enjoy. That conversation is going to be one for the ages. When we have a podcast and we're trying to set it up, I'm talking to this system actually right before this, I don't even know. I think he's only one of the few people on the face of the earth can probably understand my own mental state of wanting disclosure for people while also just being like completely ontologically shocked myself at the same time as to what's going on and then really questioning

where the line of national security even exists anymore and i and i think that i think about what he told i think sean ryan uh about how like when he killed some guy and then thought about like well what have been a different scenario like why was i even there why was i doing that like i was just doing something some rich person basically told me to do And maybe I would have been that guy's friend in a different world, you know? Like, that's the mentality of the kind of person that I want to talk to and that I think of in terms of myself. And so I imagine he's probably seen some crazy shit. He knows those videos are real.

He knows about that operation. And we're just saying you're casually having Twitter X conversations back and forth talking about a plane that was zapped out of the sky, you know, and about who might be responsible for it. And people are still thinking those videos are fake. I mean, he told Alex Jones that was a message to China, sixth generational warfare. I mean, he's saying what he can say, but I mean, he pretty much is saying those videos are real. I don't know if people are catching that. And he's totally fine with talking to me apparently about it as well. And my question for him is, you know, what I told him this morning when I replied, I saw his retweet was like, why?

Like, someone just needs to explain why. Like the thing I can't wrap my head around is I can, I'll throw the orb part. Okay, whatever. Like that's a whole other layer of just mind F. But we're targeting a civilian airliner. Right. Like clearly to like kill them all, I think, or something. And there's Americans on board, multiple Americans on board the plane.

One adult passenger who's American, Philip Wood, rest in peace. I just, what is the justification? What was so important that that plane with those 239 people were collateral damage? That's the thing I can't wrap my head around. And then you say, okay, well, that's just the black operation of targeting a civilian airliner, which I can't think of any rationalization for. But clearly, some must have happened. I don't think Obama is an insane person.

I don't think our J-Soc commanders are insane people. They must have had some motivation. Are they evil? Maybe. Maybe they're evil. I don't know. Yeah, and I think that's the toughest part that a lot of people have trouble reconciling. I have trouble reconciling that part.

You have trouble reconciling that part. What that's the biggest question that still sticks for people. You can debate all day whether or not you think the videos are real and just, you know, maybe even ignore some of the things that you put out because it's not convenient for your own opinion. I don't know. And no matter what, some people are going to say it's not real, no matter what, some people are going to say they are real. And that's just the way life is. But I think the biggest thing is that even if they are real, like you said, why would they do that?

Like, what is the end game for something like that? Where do they go? Are they still alive? If so, how long were they alive for? If it is wormhole technology and they got to the other side of whatever the other side is, if it's Diego Garcia or something else, did they die instantly in that transportation? Or were they kept alive for a certain? Like, there's so many questions to that.

That's them off from that, Ashton. And I think that's one of the biggest reasons why people have trouble believing this happen because there's so many questions, again, let alone whether or not the video is real. It's just so many questions that stem from, okay, it's real, but why and then what? Yeah, and then, you know, the best story that makes the most sense is that it was a message to China.

And that's literally what Robert J. O'Neill told Alex Jones. There's a shot at China, knock it off. And I'm just going, what? To China? We're zapping a civilian airliner to message to China? Like, is that how these people are thinking? And so, I mean, crazy it is. The only thing that makes sense is what I've been saying, which is that it's got to be that

these people, these engineers were considered super high prio targets. And there's 20 of them. And so therefore they said, okay, 20 people, you know, 220, 219 collateral damage. Someone did the math or something. And they said, this is the only way we're going to be able to snatch these 20 people at once or something that's the one that I can come up with because here's the thing I wanted to believe it was a rescue operation in fact you can find my old podcast where I thought that must be it until yeah yeah one of the first time that had you want that was now now it definitely can't

be like because now that we realize that like that's gorgon stair that's sierra Nevada corporation feeding jacist like joint intelligence network that's an operation that whole thing was planned. That means the fire was planned as well. The fire was planned. In fact, I'm kind of hoping that the fire, I don't mean this to be morbid, but I'm kind of hoping that the passengers didn't even make it to that point, you know, because like you said, who knows what's going to happen. I don't want to go through a quantum tunnel or wormhole or whatever and be stuck in the wall on the other side. Like that's, that would be like torture. So I kind of hope that they didn't make. it, but the physics shows that wormholes are humanly traversable. And for the people wondering,

you know, maybe they were testing it out, maybe there's an angle where they were also testing it out. I don't know. All I know is it's super, super dark. And I want to know the real answer to why, or at least someone tell me what their justification was. On that note, and I was looking this up as we were talking, because you jogged my memory on this and I wanted to get the information right. Director Kratios from the White House. He's the director of

well basically what? It was at the endless frontiers retreat in Austin, Texas on April 14th. He's like the technology director. He's the technology and science advisor of the White House to the president. So he says, and just remind people when this came out, because I know you saw it, I remember

you commenting on it about a month ago. And so just a reminder, he said at this summit, and it turned a lot ahead. This is the quote, Our technologies permit us to manipulate time and space. They leave distance annihilated, cause things to grow and improve productivity. So what do we make of that when we put that together

with what we're talking about right now? Is it that far-fetched to think that this is a possibility? Not at all. In fact, I mean, you have to start wondering, you really have to start wondering now if they're not responding to the fact these videos are getting attention on the internet, right? You have to start one.

That was a prepared speech. That somebody had prepared that had been reviewed and edited those words. And it wasn't just like they threw those words in the ran. It was in context is that we've like held ourselves back and we can annihilate distance. They're not. Someone, someone saying, a horse annihilates distance when it travels. Guys, they're not talking about cars and they're not talking about cell phones and the internet,

man it's not what he's talking about there it's literally talking about manipulating time and space that's what he's talking about and then trump also just a few days ago repeated the same clearly pre-prepared narrative that we have weapons that nobody understands that we don't want to have to use so don't make us use them and that we are way far ahead of everybody that was the short long and short of it and that we will essentially annihilate anybody who even messes with us or our allies. And I just want any adversaries that are listening. I am a guy that's exposing the United States government right now, my own government. Please listen to what Trump says.

I beg of you to listen to what Trump says. The atrocities that we are capable of based on what I know we've done and what technology we have, I don't even like to think about them. Like one example that's like a light example. would be imagine your country's state airline you know like China Airlines or whatever imagine every single airplane in the sky disappears simultaneously without a trace and has never seen again and nobody says anything about it they're just gone never seen again just imagine the kind of havoc and craziness something like that would cause that's just on the light scale of what the

people with this technology are capable of. Man, it is heavy stuff. I mean, if you just think about it in terms of a simple observation, we split the atom 80 plus years ago. I mean, and look at what we did at the end of World War II with Hiroshima and Nagasaki. So, I mean, it's not like we stopped innovating over the past 80 years. It's more than that, too, because it's not just that we didn't stop innovating, but we decided that we had to be the best.

and if we have to be the best, nobody else can also come close or threaten us. So that means you're either with us or you're against us. And if you're against us, well, Palantir kind of says it best when they say, hey, we're going to maintain technological superiority.

They're going to do that. So if that's their motto, I could see how they could justify taking that plan out. If I'm right, and those 20 free-scale engineers had some advanced technology on board, which, by the way, the newest stuff people are throwing out there that are researching,

which I've been fact-checking to make sure it's true, and it seems like it is, is they were apparently working on some advanced quantum tunneling diodes or microchip things that were like, you know, I don't know if they were necessarily unique, but they were working on like the state of the art stuff that was producing low energy cost microchips, including is it reverse or inverse negative resistors as well,

which people will know from my streams are a situation where the current goes up when the voltage goes down, which is usually contrary to how we would think about it happening. So if that's the case, then that is really actually the exact kind of technology. I would expect those people to be working on if they were going to be targets of an operation like this. And that's kind of like one of the prevailing theories, right,

that some of the passengers on this plane on Malaysian Airlines, flight through 70 were too high risk, if you will, to keep around. why why is that such a prevailing theory and you know obviously that's not a good enough reason to do what they did if that is the case yeah i mean we're looking for anything though right because like we really just don't have much but those are the people that everybody had pointed to there's a couple other like VIP type people that were like executives at big companies which you know maybe but if it's just one person you just blackbag them you don't need to teleport an airliner like come on that's crazy that's why it's like the

The fact there's 20 of them is a big red flag. Also, another detail that I learned just the other week was that the date of the purchase of the passenger's tickets was withheld from the public as well. For privacy concerns is the fake excuse they gave. We mean privacy concerns. People are all dead or gone. What do you mean privacy concerns? Just tell us when they bought their tickets. The reason why they're not telling you when they bought the tickets is because you're going to find out right away that these people all bought their tickets to the exact same.

time or something weird like that. And it's going to probably just show that this is an intelligence play. Or we're going to find some of the other people on the plane or clearly Intel as well. Like I'm still looking at those Iranian passengers that they never, they just kind of ignored. So again, the two people, the two groups are the 20 free scale semiconductor engineers, eight Chinese nationals, 12 Malaysian nationals. They work for the American company that's connected to U.S. aerospace and defense that's working on superconductive microchips and potentially quantum

tunneling microchips. And they had just patented a new, powerful way to optimize dyes on a wafer, which is actually now I've learned about microchips is like how you make like a super array as well, so how you scale it up on top of that. So, you know, that would seem like that's the motive. And then the two Iranian passengers who were using fake passports who had changed their identity, those people, if there were operatives on board the plane, that's who I'm going to guess.

And I'm going to guess that they weren't really like Iranians in the sense that we would think of it, but probably like American CIA operatives that were, you know, quote unquote Iranian. But just guessing. Hey, guys. So before we get back into the conversation, I just want to talk about something that affects all of us. And it's scary. Starting something new, right? It's hard.

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They're local in L.A. And they understand this community and they help you stay compliant to avoid costly missteps. You get accurate payroll software and a real HR expert who keeps. you ahead of issues. Get your Southern California business protected at GuardianHR.com. No, and that's totally fair. And I know that that's just something that people always come back to as far as the passengers and, you know, why they would be paid attention to. There was, there was a tweet. And I want to bring us something that was. Oh, can I bring one more thing? I don't mean to interrupt, but there's one thing I'll interrupt as well because people are, I can see it like that post I made that

we were talking about and this is going wild right now. And people are asking why don't, if we see the AC or the temperature atmosphere control manifolds, why don't we see the body heat of people inside the plane? They probably are not alive at that point, would be my guess. Because I agree. The first thing I had is, why am I not seeing a bunch of people inside the plane? If I'm seeing,

if we're literally seen through the wall and seeing this temperature grade, I would think I would be seen at least some blobs of people, but we're not, which tells me that plane had been in the sky for an hour and 20, minutes with toxic lithium ion battery smokes flowing through it, probably everybody was either unconscious or dead, sadly. So condolences to the families and the victims. It's an interesting observation and it's a fair question.

And I mean, that would be the answer to it. Well, it's heavy stuff. And, you know, just kind of going back to what we talked about at the beginning with that schematic of the jet and how it matches the thermal. It's just wild to me. Pretty hard. It is. It's hard to fake that.

It's hard to fake that. I will see that right up front. There was a tweet that I wanted to refer back to, and I know you'll probably get it before I do. I'm trying to remember exactly how you put it. And the reason I wanted to bring it up is because it caught a lot of people's attention. And maybe this is one of those inflammatory kind of messages that you put out there to grab some attention to be a little polarizing. Where you talked about you're more dangerous than ever. you understand the science and all these different things.

And I'm just trying to summarize. So I'll let you touch on that. And what was the purpose behind that? Do you think it was, do you think it was too much because of the reaction? Or did it get the attention that you were hoping to kind of garner from that? Yeah, no, sometimes I just kind of post random thoughts, kind of like that in general.

I mean, I'm not really trying to brag. I wasn't like I was trying to brag or anything like that. But I think that, because that one, was the one where I showed the video of all the scientists, right? So the context of that tweet wasn't me just being like, oh, I'm a genius. I know all the physics too. No, it was like, look at the journey that I've come on, is that people wonder, how do you know all this stuff? I've seen people comment, couldn't have learned all this. I'm like, go watch the live streams if you want. You can come on the journey as well. Part of this was doing a lot of this publicly so people could see the growth from somebody who's a

normal guy to just from these videos and following this science, seeing how far I've become or now I've talked to people like astrophysicist, Avi Loeb, NASA physicist, Dr. U. And I can hold my own with those guys talking, you know, the most complex physics concepts that are out there. And so if you watch that clip, it's an amazing video clip that's connected to that tweet, where I just go, do you really think this is fake? And then it goes through all like the scientists that I've reviewed on my live streams. I'm pretty sure someone just made that from the stuff that I've done.

There's even a clip of me in there. And it's, I love watching it. Because then it's like half of it's like Eric Lightweight and the Magnetic River. And you're just watching like magnetism and the cool stuff the magnetism can do. And you're realizing that videos from like the 50s and you're going, wait, that's from the 50s. How are we not like taking this to the next level? And then you go, oh, we did take it. the next level, just not publicly.

The thing about it, too, is that the science is all just out there. It's all just out there, and it doesn't require magical PhD skills to understand it. It's a conceptual view of the universe. And I have to explain, if I had to explain what we got wrong, is I'd say that we didn't get the math wrong necessarily.

I think the thing that we got wrong was the conceptual misunderstanding, that space is not really empty. If we would take space time and turn it into a thing, there's a sponge, and we were to squeeze the sponge, there's water in there. So, you know, physicists want to say, oh, there's nothing in there. Or if you squeeze it, you just get one or two drops. We squeeze that thing.

The water is just going to come rushing out. And that water is why we exist here. Like it is almost certainly the source of all energy and matter. And once you take that perspective, that viewpoint that, oh, space is not empty. The weirdest part is it doesn't actually mess up any of the math or any of the physics. Is that that zero point energy that we call it now, the energy that's still there. if you take out all the light and all the heat out of this box, that energy doesn't change any of the existing physics if we change how much there is.

It doesn't mess up any of the stuff we know right now because it all balances out. So they actually even had to re-normalize it because when they did the math, they realized it gave an infinite value, infinite return for how much that energy was. It's just scary how that's the only thing. And that doesn't require, it doesn't even. required going to school to learn science to understand that. Yeah, and I'll be the first to say it. Like, I've seen your growth from the start.

I mean, we started talking pretty early on when you got into, you know, MH370 and I've seen how much it's evolved. I remember actually putting out a couple of the old episodes, like one of our first interviews, and hearing that and kind of looking back to see how far it's come in the past couple of years, it's striking. And I'll say, too, and you know this. always put this out there, whether it's here on the show or on social media, I pride myself on trying to talk with everybody. If they're willing to talk, I want to talk to you. And I've

said this a million times. I don't have to agree with you. I don't have to sit here and prop anybody up. For instance, okay, just for example, I don't need to prop you up. You're doing just fine on your own. I don't need to prop up Lou Elizondo. He's doing just fine on his own. I had on Lou Elizondo last week. I have on you this week. So my. point is, is that I'm not trying to take sides on anybody. In fact, you and Lou Elizando couldn't be on more opposite side to the spectrum. And I have you guys on back to back. So my point in saying this is that I always want to try to have these open conversations and these dialogues. And just in my own point of view, and this is just human to human level I'm talking

about. And anybody can take it or leave it when they hear it. When I talked to Lou Elizando last week. When I talked to Eric Burleson, we mentioned him. He's been on a couple of times. When I talk to you, I can tell you just on a human level, all three of you, you might have different ways of going about things or what you want to say or what you don't want to say. All three of you have always come across as extremely sincere. You've always come across as very sincere. When I spoke to Lou last week, we spoke for two hours. I only put out about an hour and a half of that interview. A lot of it was off the recording. I looked at that dude in the eye for two hours. And I never got the feeling personally that this guy was a huckster, that he was trying

to lie to me. Now, were there some things that he wasn't willing to say? Absolutely, especially about zero point energy when I tried to kind of pat him down on that. And that was not happening. But all everybody, you, Eric Burles and Lou Elizano, and I just mentioned those names because we talked about them that I'm talking to you have always come across as sincere in your approach and what you're trying to do. And I guess my point in saying that is even if we disagree on different things or if you disagree with somebody else on something or they disagree with you, it doesn't mean that we have to take sides or someone's lying or someone's grifting. It's just that everybody's coming from a different place. Do you think that's fair? Yeah. And first thing I want to say,

never let people tell you who to have on or not have on. I would absolutely never tell you not to platform somebody. I just don't care. If you want to talk to them, that's how you decision with that person. And I think that people deserve to be heard. I think that Lou Elizando deserves to be heard. And yes, we are on the two opposite sides of the spectrum when it comes to the disclosure phenomenon. And that's fine. I just think that everybody should be up front about it. If you want to be side of national security, it says, we're going to be the ones to figure out the UFO technology and we're not going to let China figure it out and we're going to zap planes of that sky, fine. But let's like have the conversation publicly about that. I think the part that I don't like is the

deceit and the ignoring of that side of the conversation and then trying to focus it all on aliens. And it feels like that's intentional. Now, if I'm wrong, I apologize, but that's what it feels like to me. And with Congressman Burleson as well, I have nothing against him. I actually really like Congressman Burleson, if I'm being honest. And he does ask, he didn't just ask by Ian's. He has smart questions about negative energy, for example, to Eric Davis, which was the best question.

I even sent him a message saying, you asked an amazing question. And I couldn't believe that Avi Loeb shut down the question in the middle of him answering it. So I have nothing against those guys. And I would love to talk to them personally, actually, as well. But I see that there's this incompatibility that we are just, you know, we would be friends, I think. And in, you know, in the normal world, but we just have objectives right now that are not aligned. I think that's the best way to put it is the word you just see. I think you can nailed it with having different objectives.

I think that's probably the best way to put it. on that note do you get worried Ashton like some of the stuff and I've asked you this before I think I asked you a couple of years ago

and this was before things even ramped up even within the past week let alone a couple of years when it comes to Sierra Nevada this big corporation when it comes to technology like Gorgon Stair

that is top of the line stuff that they wouldn't want to get out there and if you really have cracked a code on this and you are now again, we're talking, putting out incredible circumstances to consider. And I say that in the kindest way I can.

I'm trying to be objective without saying proof that you're putting out proof. But you're putting out, you know, these images that are really, really interesting to consider about the cabin and how the thermal images match what's in the video and the schematics match. So you have all the stuff out there. Do you get worried that? Yeah, you might, you might be honest. something here, but also you might be on to something here and someone doesn't want you to be to undo it. Yeah, no, definitely. And now, I mean, I'm definitely past the line of, you know, can't pretend like we're not, we're not putting themselves at risk anymore. You know, when you're

poking the bear is Sierra Nevada Corporation, privately held corporation, managed by a lot of spooks that, you know, they've got a lot of money, they've got a lot of connections, they got a lot of power. Apparently, they have access to orb technology and teleporting things as well. What I'll say is this, is that I'm super glad Donald Trump won because if he didn't win, I'm pretty sure we're not, it's not looking good right now for me. Just saying that because I think that I've just been, and I'm not trying to make this a political thing, but I've been connected names behind the scenes and like, you know, a lot of Obama's cabinet, people that were connected to this also were then in the Biden administration

as well. And I think that Trump is trying to get some of this stuff out. but at the same time i'm not saying that like trump and his team is you know innocent and all this as well i think there's enough blood on everybody's hands or whatever you want to say behind the scenes uh and so really the conclusion is well why haven't they killed me yet i don't know i wonder about it a lot and i the only conclusion i can come to is that i've probably been getting talked to i probably have been talking to like people that are cia or connected and i just haven't even noticed it in some cases they've been watching me probably and also um i think they'll

whatever I'm doing, they must want some of this out. Like, for example, what did I say at the beginning is that the only people that don't know is the public. If China already knows, if Russia already knows, if they've already reverse engineering and that technology is now obsolete now in 2025, maybe it's not that big of a deal anymore. Although the bigger thing and the bigger concern would be the Sierra Nevada and like the war crime or, you know, crimes against humanity that were committed against that plane. So I don't know. I think that at this point, the only thing I can really do,

is just keep pushing forward. And I'm not going to have any regrets one way or another. If they do do something to me, it'll strice in the case. And then hopefully, you know, it'll get media attention. Well, hopefully all as well. Do you feel like, do you, yeah, me too. Do you ever get worried that? I'll watch the movie play out right now.

And you know what? I don't know if the main character lives through the end. It's mine. I'm the main character. So I guess we're going to find out together. Good gosh. Do you ever get concerned that? you have people reach out to you with malintent to try to reach you down or try to lead you down the wrong road when it comes to information and, you know, give you false information that basically, you know, dummy stuff that that makes you look dumb in the end or leads you down a wrong path that just makes you put out wrong information.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the biggest thing that happened was when I had that whole like the Eisenhower being sunk situation. And I never revealed who the source was on that. And I'm still not going to. I could have to like burn them and protect my own reputation, but decided not to. And that's kind of when I learned because I learned from that. It wasn't just that I put that information out. It was that the coordinated response like that people were like ready to pounce on me when I put it out there is when I realized like, oh, like people are actually running sci ops on me trying to push info on me to share.

So absolutely I think about all the time. And so I have a hard rule that I never share anybody else's content unless it's because I want to. People of course send me stuff all the time. Retweet this, retweet that. Help me at this. Help me at that. people want to do investments and stuff all the time and right now just because of the situation and right now with the gorgon stare thing like i'm not just no chance i would touch anything like

that you know because that's exactly what they do like i've learned from listening to tom bearden is that they'll try to get you caught up in a financial thing or something like that that's sketchy or they'll just do anything you know it's not just honeypotting there's several different things that they can do to catch you so um i think i've been pretty good about discernment but obviously i'm not perfect and I've been naive and I've been foolish and I got caught in like a rar file scam, you know, a couple of years ago and other stuff. But recently I've been a lot more on my, on my toes about it. There's so many people, Ashton, and I don't, I'm going to name names because I don't do that in an effort to call anybody out or to make somebody part of the conversation. And if

they want to respond to social media, if this comes across and they hear it, then by all means, I'm not trying to be a jerk to anybody. But I just, you know, just to paint the picture, someone like Grant Lavach on, on Twitter, someone like the average Chris or Mick West or these are just some of the, and if I'm losing anybody, I apologize, but these are some of the names on Twitter that always really kind of go after you pretty hard. Why do you think that is? Are they just convinced?

Are they coming from a place of this guy is the biggest jerk in the world and he's just trying to make money off of dead people or are they coming from a different spot? I guess you kind of have to ask them. I mean, I don't want to put words in their mouths. I mean, for me, I don't know which they are if they're just, you know, people that just can't, you know, they're too blue-pilled and they can't believe something like this, you know, no matter what, maybe that's the case. Maybe they just have a beef against me and they can't let go of the old grudge.

Certainly that's going to be the case for a lot of people, especially on Reddit, because, you know, we had some pretty contentious arguments, especially in the early days about the stuff. And then there is an angle where some of these people, I don't really think a lot of them, but maybe some of the people out there are like disinfo people. For the most part, though, I think they just use bots for that. So I think a lot of what you see out there is either like a combination of jealousy or pure disbelief or unwillingness to believe. It'll be interesting to see how they respond, you know, given the newest

allegate, the newest evidence, you know, the Gorgon stare, which is really just undeniable. The Gorgon stare is totally indeniable. In fact, I've already reached out to the skeptical inquires legal team and told them that they should delete their defamatory article about me and about the videos saying that they think it's cloud images from the internet it's literally gorgans stare and so i've legally informed them that it's gorgon stare they can check with the air force and they can confirm it's gorgon stare and when they do that they should delete the article issue an apology they should drop mc west from skeptical inquire and they should apologize to the mh three seven zero families you know even more

than apologizing to me um and i think that they'll do that because it'll find out that it's actually Gorgon's there. So how these guys respond to just being proven abjectly wrong and being toxic trolls for the last two years of their lives attacking me when I've been an honest guy, that'll show their true character in my opinion. And I guess we'll all see and watch. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Death Wish Coffee, Brooke Linnon, and Kylie. But what if people haven't heard about your brand. Well, Shopify helps you find your customers with easy to run email and social media campaigns. But what if you hit that wall and you get stuck somewhere? Well, no problem,

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That's one of the reasons why I talk in you. Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate that. When we talk about just kind of like the overall situation, you said something that caught my attention earlier, where we talk about maybe this is obsolete. As insane as that sounds, that teleportation technology with flying orbs

that would create a wormhole could be obsolete. The video, the purported video, maybe I should say, is from 11 years ago. Like that's that's the fact at this point. So if that is old technology, like let's just compare it to an everyday item. Like, you know, we hold up our phones, right? Like if we had an iPhone from 2014, it's nowhere near close to an iPhone in 2025. So what could they have now if that's, if again, just speaking objectively here,

if that video is real, that's real technology that we saw. What else could we have 11 years later? That's funny. I was, I'm expecting. I've been expecting that to be the next thing people ask me. Like after people start to come in terms of videos, everyone's going to be like, Ashton,

what do they have now, though? Right? What do they have now? Now I'm going to become one of the grifters without always just like making something up. So, I mean,

this is why I said like, that's why I did the warning where I said like the minimum they can do is just make every flight disappear, right? Because then all they need is just a thousand of those orbs. No problem, right? But what if they've made something that's even more powerful than that? This is all speculative of obviously.

Obviously, nobody really knows the answer. Here's the thing about it, too, is that it's not just the orbs. There's an AI guidance system moving, flying those orbs around as well. So now we're talking, wait, they had AI in 2014 that was good enough to fly orbs around a three-dimensional environment, like well beyond what Elon Musk is doing right now. Oh, okay. If that's the case, then did they have like super AI intelligence? Did AI help them figure this stuff out?

Because it helps me figure some of this stuff out. And now I'm sitting here wondering like, okay, is the whole world of prison and there's a super AI that's like controlling everything already? Are we already in the sky net world? That's if I'm looking at 2025 and what I'm afraid of now, that's what I'm afraid of now. Now I'm going, it's probably not even about the technology. Technology is probably inevitable. It's probably about like what's the next super intelligence and the next evolution of humanity post-humanism. Because the technology they've been hiding, the orbs are, I'm going to.

reiterate they're 100% free free energy by free energy i mean fusion cold temperature fusion at low temperatures very very low temperatures low cost to produce the energy and getting huge over unity they might be able to achieve over unity levels far far higher than 10 uh that's cue factor and cue factor of three is like what fusion is trying to reach right now and those orbs from 10 years ago may have been multiple times of higher than that already at that point. So they've already 100% cracked free energy, as we would think of it, floating ball plasma with no physical confinement. And they've also figured out transmutation as well, because once you got fusion cracked

and you can just form any element you want, you also have transmutation now. So what's going to happen? What the real implications of the technology are for the next thousand years? is the end of all scarcity on planet Earth. As in we don't care about solar power anymore. We don't even care about the energy from the sun anymore at all. We don't care about any fuel sources and energy sources we use now because we'll be able to draw as much energy as we need from empty space, the quantum vacuum.

So essentially, it's just the idea that we figured out how to create a utopian society, and that's why they don't want to do it because utopian societies don't make money. Yeah, I mean, it's more complicated than that, but that's certainly one of the major factors for sure. I mean, and how do we get to that utopian society from where we're at right now? And they decided, okay, this is where we're at right now. This is where we've got to get to. We're going to have a plan. We'll call it slow drip disclosure, right?

This is what I say, slow drip disclosure is where we're going to get to this point. We're just not going to do it all at once. We're going to do it a stepwise process. That's what Louis-Azondo, the UIP disclosure fund, all these people. That's what they're all doing because they're all spooks. they all know what's going on with this. And the part that actually, I don't even mind all that. The part that upsets me about what these guys are doing,

like the Chris Mellons as well, is that I'm almost certain that their wealth, their generational wealth, comes from exploiting this knowledge, and that their fathers and what have you, they've been exploiting this knowledge to make themselves rich at the expense of all of us. The real question is,

do the people that are billionaires out there right now, do they even deserve that wealth? how many of them really deserve it, and how many of them have actually just been taking advantage of the fact that they know super advanced technology exists, therefore they basically can predict the future. They know which companies are going to succeed and fail. And by the way, you mentioned this earlier.

You used AI to confirm the Gorgansdair capabilities, right? Like you matched up with a, this isn't like Ashton's just saying this. I just want to reiterate that, that you used AI to confirm. And people did their own, they used their own AIs to confirm it multiple times. I even took the analysis. It wasn't me. It was Drew Ponder that did it.

If you guys want to check out his analysis on X. He used, I think, an advanced version of chat GPT, 4.0 or something. I don't know what it is. But I confirmed it with Grock myself and every single point matches, point for point, exactly Gorgon's capability. His response from the AI was so convincing. This is where I was even convinced me, which is that it had found that additional detail that I didn't even know about.

And then it had also said that it had also said that it. it was such a perfect match that it literally couldn't even be any other whammy capability, that it had to be Gorgon Stair or a system that was an exact replica of Gorganser, like some other iteration or version of Gorgans Stair. And I just went, holy, I mean, that's conclusive. I mean, how can anyone refute that? And then the real kicker for me was when I was going back through my old pictures, because I had decided with the Gorgon Stair thing, I didn't need the leverage I had with the email about

Marco Rubio. I was like, I'm just going to post this email. because it wasn't even that crazy now in content, you know, compared to what we have now. Wasn't that crazy? So I'm going to go find that. And all of a sudden, I find this message that I had saved, which was from a tweet, DM that somebody sent me. That was somebody that I had considered credible from other information.

But I didn't understand the context of this message they sent. And it was from a year ago. And it said, I showed this to my Air Force, a bunch of Air Force people. And they told me it's drone footage, but it's an older version. And at the time, I had no idea with them. I thought they were talking about the thermal drone video, and I didn't understand what they meant by older version. And now when I saw that, again, I went, holy shit,

they showed them the Gorgans Stair. The Air Force people knew it was Gorgans Stair, but it was Gorgansdair Increment 2, which was one of the older versions in 2014. And now they have Gorgans Stair with like 30 FPS versus the 6 FPS one we were looking at there. And I just went, and one of my other sources, I don't have to docks them, but they worked at China Lake, which is where they test all the drones.

and the surveillance capability as well. And they've seen like every version of Gorgon Stare. And there said, no question, no doubt, that's Gorgon Stair in that video. So anyone wants to peer review it? Anyone wants to talk to Air Force person, get them to go on the record? Yeah, let me know. Wow. Okay, I promise almost done, but all these things keep popping into my head.

There was a video that you put out, I don't know, maybe a year or two ago. And I've been curious to get your thoughts on it. It was a message that somebody had sent you, basically kind of encouraging you to go on with your investigation, that you're closer than you think. If you could summarize that and kind of give your thoughts on why you think that was a real message that somebody sent you and it wasn't one of those things trying to lead you astray, because it was very specific and it was very cryptic at the same time. Yeah, and because it was specific, it was cryptic, it was encouraging. The encouraging factor was probably the biggest reason why it's not a troll. Somebody that's trying to troll you, get a rise out of you, it doesn't try to encourage you. That's not what they try to do.

They, you know, they'll try to trick you into something. But that was more of just like, and actually even it admonished me for the Miami Mall Aliens incident, which was at the time my number one tweet, not anymore. Thank goodness. The videos are in my number one tweet. but at the time the stupid story about the Miami Mall aliens, which was totally fake, was my number one tweet because everybody was riding it. And this person was super upset about it.

And clearly they were mad that I had moved away from the MH370 video content and was now diversifying out and talking about other stuff. And it kind of makes sense because I really wasn't, hadn't figured out at the time what the technology was, what the orbs were. I had no idea. And the video not only explained the orbs and the technology in a way that made sense for how they could have discovered and figured it out, which now I think is exactly correct, that they, it took off in the quantum computer era of the early 2000s and got to the point

where we see in those videos. But they also put together the story of the plane, the fire, that the fires connected to the orb event, that the whole thing is a CIA operation, start to finish. And that at the time was not something, it was something that I had considered, but not something I put a lot of weight into. But the way they kind of sold me on it is kind of the same reason why at the beginning of this we said what's the reason why they do it the main thing to understand why that's the operation start to finish is you have to understand why you would do something this to begin with and you realize that this is something bigger than one person on that plane this is like a state message to another state you know this is these are big players

coming in we're just little ants and we're getting swatted without even realizing it and that's essentially what the letter was saying and at the end I think the thing that really really drove at home that I'll probably never forget. I'm just going to paraphrase that says, you know, this is what I want to leave you with. Like, how do you stop somebody who has unlimited technology can make towers disappear into dust, whole cities get burnt, abduct a Boeing, a burning Boeing triple seven midair? Somebody who, when needed, has full control over the media and crafts a perception of events. and has the whole world eating all the palm of their hands,

says, after a lifetime in their service, I think I know the answer. You talk about them and you don't stop talking. Even just saying it, repeating it, it gives me goosebumps to think about. Because what did that person realize that sent that letter to me? They realized there's absolutely no way the media will ever touch this. They're never going to touch this story. They're controlled by the government.

Everybody's controlled by the government. So how do you expose them? You talk about them. You do the exact thing that I'm doing right now, which is that you expose the people that are implicated, that can't do anything back because they know they're implicated, they can't respond because they know they're implicated. And you just raise awareness to the point where it's so awkward,

they have to say something. So we're doing it. So I think the letter is real. I don't know where it comes from. My guess would be based on the various, like there's some, They say deflectors, and there's a couple other grammatical errors that are very consistent with somebody who is from Asia with English as a second language. So maybe it was China helping out.

Maybe Taiwan. I don't know. Interesting stuff. I'll get you out of here on this. What's that moment for Ashton Forbes where just to draw comparison, not that I'm calling you Thanos, but just to call it draw a comparison, like at the end of Avengers where Thanos has that moment where he sits back and he's like, I'm done. My mission's complete.

What is that moment for you where you say, I don't feel like I have to do this anymore because I got to where I wanted to be finally with this. And this is exactly what I've been trying to do. I can see that moment. I can see the light at the tunnel, under the tunnel. That moment is when the United States government. says something that implies that those videos are real. The moment the government says anything that implies those videos are real,

because there's a lot of different wording they could use. I don't have to do anything anymore after that. The moment that happens, how this is going to play out, if I'm right and the dam does break, the wall of silence cracks, it's going to be like a flood. Everyone's going to want to talk about it all at the exact same time. every single mainstream media

we'll talk about at the exact same time. They will start to craft a narrative themselves and try to push me out of the narrative, most likely. And everyone who is silent will now all be inviting me on their podcast. Everyone will be pretending like they were all supportive all along.

It'll be like nothing you've ever seen, honestly. And so that's why I think that's what it is. And at that point, then I don't need to spend any more effort trying to convince anybody of anything at that point. At that point, all the evidence will all be out there people would just have to look back through my highlights on my Twitter posts, et cetera. They want to see all the stuff.

And then I'll focus on, you know, turning this into something that helps humanity in the long run. Fascinating stuff, Ashton, to say the least. I just want to thank you again for it because we didn't really plan on a time. We didn't say, hey, 45 an hour. It's an hour and a half now. And to be honest with you, this has really just been a lot of, like, riffing back and forth.

I think you wrote down like three bullet points on my phone. And the rest of this has just been like, discovery discussion. And I've enjoyed the back and forth and I really appreciate all the time that you allowed us to have here tonight because I know we're both busy and I'm glad we got to take some time out

to talk about this. It was educational. You too, Stephen. Thanks, Ashton. Talk to you soon. Santa Monica College is the number one transfer college to the UCs for 35 straight years. With caring faculty, dedicated counselors, and affordable tuition,

SMC helps you reach top universities with confidence. Summer classes start June 22nd. Learn more at SMC.edu. And that'll do it for this edition of Stephen Deiner and Ashton Forbes on UAP. I'm sure that Ashton and I will speak again in the future. I really always do enjoy talking to him. Again, you know, I say it a million times the old preface of make what you will of Ashton, how he presents himself or handles things on social media or the claims that he

makes. But I enjoy talking to him and getting his side of the conversation and getting his side of the story because it always leaves me thinking of other possibilities. And I really like to be intrigued. And I absolutely get intrigued every single time Ashton and I speak. And he's a very interesting guy and I enjoy speaking to him. So I hope you enjoy it as well. Even though someone's social media do not and they make that very clearly known when they

write to me on Twitter and say, why are you talking to this guy? Stop talking to him. But hey, that's life. You know, I always believe in that open dialogue. And it actually goes back to what I said during the episode when I was talking Ashton, you know, making the correlations between himself and Lou Elizando and Eric Burleson, just all different sides of the spectrum. And I thought that was actually one of my favorite parts of our conversation, of the entire thing, of the hour and a half that we spoke that I split up

into two parts here. One of my favorite parts was that part where just kind of had that frank, really, you know, honest perspective on just trying to talk to each other. Even if we're coming from different angles and different sides of the spectrum, different sides of the conversation, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't talk to each other and have the conversations out in the open. So I'm glad we got to have that part there and put that on the record together because it is, to me, that's important. And I hate shutting each other out.

Even if we disagree with somebody or something, I hate the idea of just shutting someone out because you disagree with a point or disagree with what they say. I just feel like open dialogue is such an important aspect of our society that I hate to say is a loss to art. but it feels like it's being ostracized more and more these days and I want to try to prop that. That's what I want to prop up. If I'm propping anything up here on UAP, it's the idea of open dialogue.

And I'm happy to be able to do that. And I'm happy that we got to have that as part of the conversation here today and throughout the entire interview. But with all that said, just again, super fascinating discussion to take all these things into account as the conversation continues to move forward. Each time Ashton and I speak here on the show,

the conversation and the theories and the evidence that he reports and presents continues to evolve every single time. And that's why I love to continue to bring him on. And I'm sure I will again in the future. But speaking of the future, what's coming up? Well, a couple of things. Number one, I just want to reiterate again. I am going to be at contact in the desert next week. Oh, my gosh.

That's next week. I'll be flying out on Friday, May 30th. and I'll be there all day. I'll be in Palm Springs by the convention center or by the hotel anyway where they do the convention all day Friday. And then I'll actually be present at the convention on Saturday, May 31st. So if you want to come see me, if you're going to be there, if you're in the area, I would love to say hello. Please don't be shy. There's no reason to be shy.

It's just a guy. I go grocery shopping and make my kids dinner just like anybody else. So if you want to say hi or take a picture or have a come. conversation. I'm absolutely more than happy, more than happy to do that. The easiest way to do it, if you don't see me walking around the hallways or, you know, having a conversation somewhere or having lunch in the hotel, I'll be at the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance booth, HDA, Hollywood Disclosure Alliance. I'll be at that booth from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m. So that's, you know, I'll be in that one central location. So if you are trying to find me, if you're going, then you can find me at the

HDA booth from 1 to 2. Otherwise, I'll be, you know, I'll be around. But aside from that, but I really do look forward to going just because just to make, no pun intended, the contacts there, there's going to be a lot of people there and I can't wait to talk to all of you. I can't wait to talk to fellow podcasters as well as all the different experiencers and speakers who are going to be at contact in the desert.

So I'm really looking forward to this experience. And then reporting back to you on how that went and the conversations that I had. So just I'm excited for that. So stay tuned on that. And definitely, follow along. If you haven't already follow along on Twitter specifically, and I'll try to get

some things up on TikTok and YouTube, but you can follow along on social media at UA Podcast 850. Now is the time to do that because I'll be posting a lot while I'm there next week at UA Podcast 850 and at UA podcast on YouTube. That's just kind of more simplified there for the

YouTube version. So not only for live updates, all that contact in the desert, but anything that's going on as far as the show or any, you know, updates that I have that come out there. I always usually put that up on Twitter at least. So follow along if you like,

as well as sending me any emails or thoughts or messages. You can do that through social media or through email. S-D-N-R-U-A-P at gmail.com. That's S-D-I-E-N-E-R-U-A-P at gmail. But also coming up, before we're done, some things to look forward to next week, aside from contact in the desert, before I go out there,

I will be bringing out two new interviews next week, one with Stephen Bassett from the Paradigm Research, group and of course, you know, all the work that he does in Washington, D.C., and all the connections that he has. So I got to speak with him recently, and I'm going to put that interview out early next week, as well as, and I'm super, super excited for this one, because this guy has been on my list for a few years to have on the show. I'm really getting to cross off a few names on the list here, the people that have always wanted to speak to on UAP, which I'm

extremely grateful for. But that is Avi Loeb. Avi Loeb will be joining me here on UAP, and that interview was also going to come out next week before I head out to contact in the desert. So I told you at the beginning of May that the month of May was going to be absolutely loaded. Now you know why I have been saying that. And there's even more things planned for June that I look forward to bringing out to you and more in the future. But in the immediate future next week, Stephen Bassett and Alvi Loeb right here on UAP. Super excited to have those interviews and bring those to you. It's just really, really good stuff that I'm so happy that I get to bring to you here on UAP.

But aside from all that, thank you again to Ashton Forbes. Thanks for spending it all the time. And I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did during that entire conversation here. But until next time, it's Stephen Deiner here saying thank you all again for everything. And for all the support for all the kind words and messages really does mean the world to me. So until next time, it is Stephen Deiner here saying be well. And thanks. We'll talk again soon right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast.