UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 136 CITD Recap, Reviews, and Exclusive Interviews

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

Fresh off his stint at the Contact in the Desert conference in Palm Springs, California, Stephen Diener presents his unique experiences while at the show along with three different powerhouse interviews with Kelly Chase, Thomas Jane, and Whitley Strieber. You won't get this type of content anywhere else!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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We'll come back into UAP for episode 136. Stephen Dean are back with you here as always on the Unidentified Alien Podcast for this special episode today to start off the month of June. I can't believe we're in June already. What is happening with this time of this year? But at the special episode as we review and recap all of the happenings at Contact in the Desert 2025. And what a great time it was. I can't wait to tell you all about the little things that happened.

And that's exactly what we're going to do here today in this episode, along with giving you the interviews that it was able to conduct while I was there. And that was all part of the experience. And I thought to myself, you know what? Why not use these interviews for you on an episode of UAP? I got to talk with Kelly Chase. I got to talk with Whitley Streber. I got to talk with Thomas Jane. I mean, it was such a fantastic time just one-on-one sitting in this media room at Contact in the Dead.

desert speaking to these fantastic people who have, you know, an amazing background, an amazing history and following in the UFO community. And I was so, I felt so privileged to be able to really sit and have this one-on-one time with all these great people. So that's what we're going to do here today. I have these little mini interviews, some were 10 minutes, some are 20 minutes. And I put all them together to make one nice contact in the desert review episode here for you today on episode 136.

and I want to get to some shoutouts and some great stories and everything like that, which I'll get to. But first, I do want to bring you these interviews. But like I said, a lot of highlights, a lot of shoutouts that I want to give. But before I get to the first interview here with Kelly Chase, just a quick overview of contact in the desert. If you weren't there, I hope to see you there in 2026 because it really was, it surpassed all of my expectations. I think that's the best thing I can say. the amount of people I met in this community who have all these big shows on YouTube

or big podcasts, I got to meet with Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp. I've met Jeremy a couple of times, but I never had the opportunity to meet George Knapp before. So it was really cool to say hi to him. Matt Ford was fantastic. I spoke to him for a while from the Good Trouble Show. James Fox was there.

I mentioned Thomas Jane. Ross Coldheart was walking about. Got to introduce myself there. I've actually never spoken to Ross before. So it was cool to finally be able to shake his hand and say hello at least. And just so many more. And actually Chris Ramsey as well. And of course he has his massive show there on YouTube. So all respect to him. Tyler from the Total Disclosure podcast, he was great. He was working his butt off there. And he actually interviewed me on an episode of his podcast for Total Disclosure that will come out in the next few weeks or so, I think. So I'll keep you updated on that when he puts out his own episode of of his podcast where he sat down with me and I got interviewed which was which was different I've only been interviewed a few times on different shows um so it was it was cool I always enjoyed doing that I love being the guest so if anybody wants to have me on their show at any point I'm always happy to do that I love being a guest and just answering questions so we ended up speaking for like 30 or 40 minutes on his

show um so like I said I'll keep keep you updated on when that interview is going to come out but it was just a great day I got to meet Patrick from vetted he was there doing a bunch of interviews. Ashton Forbes was there. So that was really great to meet him in person finally after speaking for the past couple of the years together back and forth, you know, through stream yard or Zoom or whatever

you want to say through Twitter and YouTube. It was really cool. And then that was the main thing and that's what we kind of spoke about amongst ourselves was it was just so cool to finally be able to see people. It's not just a picture on or a video on YouTube or Twitter or social media.

We actually got to stand in front of each other and say hello and shake hands and speak person to person and look at each other's eyes. And you really can't replace, you know, contact, right? Contact of the desert. You really can't replace just that human-to-human contact in person. And that's why I'm so happy that I went. You know, I didn't get to go last year. I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to make it this year.

But kind of, you know, a few weeks beforehand, I said, you know what, let's go for it. Let's try to make this happen. And I'm so happy that I did because to have those personal connections with that. everybody to meet everyone face to face. It was irreplaceable. And it was such a fantastic experience. So kudos to everybody who put it on contact in the desert. Captain Ron and Dan Harari and Steve Bassett.

I know they all have a hand in that. So just wonderful time. Great experience. So happy that I went. Because then I also got to do these interviews to be able to share with you and meet all of you as well. So after the interviews, I have a couple more stories. and I want to give shoutouts to all of you who were able to come by and say hi to me.

I love that so much. I'm so glad I got to meet so many of you to come by and see me and say hello and to hear how much and why you like the show and how long you've been listening. It was so cool to have those interactions with so many of you who stopped me and said, oh my gosh, it's so nice to meet you. So I have some of those stories as well as what happened at the table that I ended up sitting at on Saturday night with James Fox, Thomas Jane, Jeremy Corbell, George Knapp, Matt Ford, and Chris Ramsey. It was quite the table, and somehow, someone ended up just kind of like sitting there and conversing and listening. But there was some fun stuff that happened at that table on Saturday night that I want to tell you a little fun story that happened there too. So a lot to get to.

First off, though, to start off on the interview portion is Kelly Chase. And here's where we spoke about what she was going to be covering during her lecture this past. Saturday nights where she was a speaker at Contact in the Desert. And I loved her topic. And that's why I was so excited to talk to her on Saturday when we did this little mini interview. So here's interview number one from Contact in the Desert with myself and Kelly Chase. Enjoy.

All right. Welcome in. Kelly Chase here with me, Stephen Dean, or UAP at Contact in the Desert. Scroll up there a little bit. And I'm so happy to be talking to you, Kelly, because I followed your work and you do an amazing work with everything with Rabbit Hole, Cosmosis, everything you have out on Apple TV. I mean, it's just incredible.

I would like to say that I think you're really a pioneer when it comes to the way that UFO conversation has moved in the podcast media. So kudos on that. Oh, thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to be here. Your show's great. And I love seeing you thrive. Thank you.

I appreciate it. And so I'm glad to be able to talk to you finally for the first time, actually, on UAP. And it's cool that we get to do it this way at contacting the desert. So that said, your lecture tonight. I love the subject. It's weaponizing the narrative on disclosure. And I think it's such a, it's a perfect topic for the way that the conversation is going right now because everybody has an opinion on, is it 2027? Is it, you know, who knows what in Congress? Who knows what in the intelligence community? And everybody has a thing that they're trying to push maybe intentionally or unintentionally. So I want to ask you kind of your thoughts on that. subject and maybe a little bit what you have planned in the lecture. Sure. So I'm really excited for the lecture. It's kind of been a long time coming. You know, I think I kind of walked away from the UFO rabbit hole and started a new podcast,

and I ended up kind of saying like I'm a little bit disillusioned with the whole disclosure narrative. And I had explained myself somewhat how I've gotten there. But I think the thing that I really have wanted to talk about is not just the obvious ways in which, you know, everybody wants to talk about Richard Doty. Or they want to talk about Paul Benowitz or like there are these particular stories that we point to and we're like, that was a bad situation where narrative control happened. But I think that what people aren't as good at because we just don't have the conversation out loud and in public is how do we look at what's happening right now and make some kind of sense of it as people who don't have clearances

and who don't have access to the truth. How do we interpret like these day-to-day stories, the things that pop up, the controversies, the various characters, heroes and the villains, you know, and what can we learn from how the intelligence community has historically worked and operated about what may be going on now. I'm not here to call anybody out. I'm not going to be using a whole bunch of names or making accusations, but I will be providing some really robust frameworks to help people ask their own questions about what might be going on right now with the disclosure narrative. Yeah, and I love that, right? It's all about kind of let's put out the details, let's put out the information and kind of make up your own mind from

there. So yes. And I think that's it's a great way to do it. So I guess I want to ask you then who you think the bad guys are. I mean, you know what I think is so complicated about this is that I don't, I think that a case that I'll make is I think turning thinking in terms of like heroes and bad guys is probably not the best way. I think what we do need to do is have an adult conversation about what the intelligence community is and how it operates and how it protects secrecy. We've gotten to this place since 2017 where the UFO community is the community more than almost anyone else on the planet should be very very. suspicious of the intelligence community. And yet we've gotten into this place where like

it is members of the intelligence community who are guiding the conversations. They're all the guests on the podcast networks. And there seems to be this almost like deference where we're not allowed to question. We're not allowed to like have, we're not allowed to have any of the like rational questions that a person should have about like what might actually be going on here. The truth is is that like members of the intelligence community are serving the interests of the United States. It may not be the interest that we think they should be serving and we might might not agree with everything that they do. But I think all of us, like, we get to sleep at night because there are men and women in this country who are willing to do things that we would not be

willing to do to protect our own interests. And so I don't think it's about good guys and bad guys, but it is about understanding, like, what their job actually is, and it's not to tell us the truth. And it never has been. How do you think that plays into the congressional standpoint of this? You know, and I'm not saying good guys and bad guys here either. I'm just with the question, I say these names, names like David Grush and Eric Burleson, Nancy Mace, and Apelina Luna. When you talk about David Grush being part of Representative Burleson's team for disclosure in their transparency task force, how do you think that end of things plays into the intelligence community narrative?

I think that what's going on with Congress for the most part, I think that there are many members of Congress who are very sincere and a push for more transparency and more oversight and that they are catching on to the fact that something real is going on here. and that something needs to be done. And to be clear, I also think that there are whistleblowers and people working behind the scenes who are very much about transparency as well. But I think that if we look at like the actual legislation

that's been put out and things that people are actually doing, not what they're saying, but they're doing, that probably what's going on with Congress isn't necessarily a push for transparency on the part of members of the Department of Defense, but it is about technology transfer. It's about greater oversight. It's about pulling this.

stuff back out of the darkness. And because there's a lot of risk involved with like rogue members of the intelligence community having access to paradigm shattering technology and absolutely no oversight from Congress. Like that's a problem. Yeah. But those problems that they're trying to solve about like how do we get this stuff back under the oversight and purview of the United States government is a very separate

issue from transparency and telling the truth to the public. And I think that those two things have been conflated and that while the public is supporting is coming to disclosure saying we want transparency, we want to know the truth, that the momentum of our movement is being kind of jiu-jitsued in a different direction to facilitate technology transfer and greater oversight that has nothing to do with transparency. Where do you want to see, I'll end on this in this little minisode here. Where do you want to see the conversation go as far as the narrative, right, for disclosure? How do you think that should move forward?

What should be the right steps that are taken when we actually try to get answers to move the narrative of disclosure forward? You know, I think, like I said, I want us to have a more adult conversation about the intelligence community. I want people to be able to look at what's going on and not necessarily take it all at face value, but also not necessarily villainize everyone involved either. Like I said, you know, bringing to heal a rogue group within the intelligence community that has stuff that they shouldn't have and has no oversight. Like, that's a very worthy and patriotic cause, even if it's not necessarily the cause that we're all rallying behind. And I think that what we really want is truth. But the thing is that the government doesn't have ownership of the truth. The UFO phenomenon is a part of our reality.

It's part of the nature of our reality. And we all have access to that. And so I think that we need to have a more adult, mature view on what's going on with the disclosure movement. And then we also need to reclaim our own personal responsibility. responsibility and agency so that we're out here doing the research, doing the work ourselves, forming communities of inquiry together, and that that's going to be a much better way for us to get to the truth than trying to get people who are paid to lie to us to tell us the truth. I really want to ask you who you think those names are.

People who are getting paid to lie to us, but I don't want to put you on the spot. Maybe I'll ask me a word done recording. But good luck. Kelly Chase, thank you so much for doing this. Good luck on the lecture tonight at Contact in the Desert. Thank you. And thank you all for watching. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S.

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It feels like a continuation. Explore your options at canesley manor.org, a non-profit month-to-month senior community within the Front Porch family. Santa Monica College is the number one transfer college to the UCs for 35 straight years. With caring faculty, dedicated counselors, and affordable tuition, SMC helps you reach top universities with confidence. Summer classes start June 22nd. Learn more at SMC.edu. So like I said, these are kind of mini-so. It's mini interviews. So thank you to Kelly Chase for that one. And that was really fun.

That was actually my first interview of the day on Saturday morning. I flew in on Friday. And I wasn't planning on even going to the conference on Friday. I was just going to kind of have some downtime, catch up on some work and things like that. But I thought, you know what? I was staying across the street from where the convention was being held at the Esmerelda Hotel there in Indian Wells in Palm Springs. And I thought, you know, let me walk over there and see just kind of the layout. What are things like there?

What can I expect on my full day there on Saturday? And I'm so glad I did that because that's when I met so many different people. Actually, I forgot to mention Bob Salas and his wife, Maryland, David Shendell, who is a legend in this field as well, what he saw having to do with UFOs over nuclear installations back in the 60s. So, you know, I got to meet so many people. I ran into Patrick and Nick Pope on Friday when I just was just kind of walking around in my shorts and sandals fresh off my flight from South Florida. So that was kind of embarrassing. I wasn't expecting to run into so many people wearing shorts and sandals. But, hey, I was comfortable and it was hot out.

So, you know, whatever. It's Southern California. It's hot just like South Florida is. But that was really cool on Friday to be able to do that. And then come in on Saturday. And Kelly Chase was my first interview there Saturday morning at 9 a.m. And to have that one-on-one time was really cool. And Kelly is great.

We spoke a little bit longer after that, just off camera. And she said she would love to be able to come on and have a long-form interview because I really, I didn't want to stop talking, but I knew we only had a little bit amount of time. So I thought, you know what, let's try to do this in a longer form. Another time she said, absolutely. So I look forward to having Kelly Chase back on here for a full interview on UAP sometime in the future, which will be really cool. But that's a little bit more recap and review of how things went, what I experienced, and just such a great time. But now that takes me to my interview with Thomas Jane.

Now, a couple of things on this one. First of all, Thomas Jane is great. Really cool guy, really chill. If you don't know him, he played The Punisher. He was in the show Hung. He was in the movie Deep Blue Sea with Samuel Jackson and L.O. Cool J. Of course, you know, the shark movie destroying everybody, like jaws on steroids. Just an awesome guy.

And really happy that I was able to talk to him again. We spoke last year here on UAP, where we spoke for like an hour, I think. And when I heard he was giving me a contact in the desert, I said, yes, absolutely. I'd love to sit down with Thomas Jane and catch up there. So we covered some things having to do with AI, advanced technology, all the things that go into the nature of the universe and what this phenomenon actually means is what Thomas Jane and I kind of get into here during this portion, during this about 12 minute interview or so that we had on Saturday night. It was around 4 o'clock, I think, when he and I sat down. He was my last interview for the day. but I want to give that one here right now.

But unfortunately, I will say this before I bring it on. The audio is a little echoy. So behind the scenes, little info, it was just me and my phone. I didn't have any high tech equipment or anything like that. It was really just I was holding my phone and holding my phone up like I was going to take a selfie. But instead I was holding it up in position without moving because I wanted to put these videos up on social media. which they are up, by the way, on YouTube and on Twitter. If you want to actually see the videos, they're up on YouTube and Twitter.

At UA Podcast 850 on Twitter, at UA Podcast 850 on YouTube. And I wanted to try to get as good quality as I could. So I'm holding my hands trying to hold it steady and not have a shaky phone. But, you know, we're talking for a long time. And that's hard to do. So I did that when speaking to Kelly Chase. And I did that when speaking to Whitley Streber, who you're going to hear after Thomas Jane. And by the time I got to Thomas Jane, my arm was like noodle arm, like my shoulder.

I felt like a major league baseball pitcher who pitched 120 pitches in a game. I was like, I couldn't even pick up my arm anymore. I'm holding it there for so long in the previous interviews. So thankfully, and kind enough was Dan Harari from the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance. He was in the room. And I said, Dan, look, do you mind holding the camera, just getting as close as possible so that way we can pick up the audio between myself and Thomas Jane. So he was kind enough to hold the camera up. get like a selfie stick or something.

Next year, a tripod. I don't know for next year's contact in the desert because I hope to go back in 26. But this one you're getting here because this was not selfie mode. So it sounds a little bit further away. It sounds a little echoey. And I apologize for that. But I thought it was still good enough at least to where you could enjoy the interview and hear what Thomas Jane and I spoke about back and forth for about 12 minutes or so.

So that said, here's the preface. And now here's the interview. Myself and Thomas Jeanne. Enjoy. What are some of the things that you come across that you thought, you know what? Maybe this is really kind of taken on a new life of its own when it comes to the discussion surrounding disclosure and people's consciousness going into this far-reaching topic.

Well, you can tell that a shift is happening. We've had a lot more people this year than we had last year. We've got people coming in like Ross Cole, with News Nation and who's broken a lot of whistleblower stories. We've got new podcasters coming in. Chris Ramsey, Jesse Michaels, who I interrupted their conversation the other day, and they looked to me like I was in Halian.

It's a neat place for breaking boundaries, moving conversations, and taking the policy. of the community as far as both their ideas about what this phenomenon means, which is what I'm interested in, and then the, how are we moving this forward into the public consciousness so that we can get some real change on our planet and as a society? And I'm interested in both of these things, very much. How do you think AI plays into this when it comes, because even

since the last time you and I spoke, which was, I guess, about a year ago, roughly, AI has advanced so much in a year. Do you see that being something that's part of the conversation when it comes to higher intelligence that maybe they've already mastered and were just starting to kind of scratch the surface on it? So the great question that I heard this weekend about AI, is it a discovery or an invention? Did we discover AI or did we invent it?

The same question that was asked of mathematics. you know, did we discover mathematics as baked into the net? Because why does it describe nature and reality so perfectly? And I think there's a bit of both. But I lean towards AI being a discovery, not an invention. Look, if we've got civilizations that are older and wiser have been here hanging around on planet Earth for various reasons, that obviously all of our science and technology is a discovery.

We didn't invent anything. We haven't invented quantum mechanics. We didn't invent general relativity. We venerate the people that make new discoveries, but there's no statue of the guy who invented the wheel. And in alien societies, there's probably no statue for the guy who invented Aeon, right? We venerate people like Turing, came up with a term test and changed the game and moved thinking forward as far as computation goes.

And those things are great, but that's indicative of our young society. We haven't yet branched out to understand that all of these technicals or aspirations that we have are contained within a larger technosphere, an alien technosphere that surrounds our planet. So there's nothing we could do or say that hasn't been done or said before. Cool. Paraphrase John Lennon. And that's, you can times that by 10,000, a million, 10 million. Yeah.

Conversation was having earlier with somebody, and it's kind of stuck in my head for the past couple of hours, was the idea, kind of like the Prometheus idea when it comes to the movie, you know, that there is some type of higher being that genetically modified our DNA. Do you think that might be a case that's happening within human history? And if so, they probably used AI or some sort of it, right? We've got consistent multiple reports of human-esque aliens, not just humanoid, which is troublesome enough to our Darwinian sort of structure of what we think of evolution is.

Nothing like the humanoid form should ever arise again on any other planet. You and I should be the result of random evolution, which means that if we reround the clock and played it all again, nothing like us should ever appear again. And yet here we have humanoid aliens that are all human. It's one of the big hurdles that science has to wrap their mind around. People are starting to do it. Convergent evolution is now being,

accepted and studied and used as a possible, you might be able to extrapolate that to the galaxy, that there's a kind of convergent evolution happening in the galaxy. So there's sort of two explanations that I can think of. Either it's human-esque, not fully human-esque, aliens with head, hair, fingernails, eyebrows, smiles, you know, emotions, smiling, crying. So that's odd. So either there's a conversion evolution area factor, or we are the genetic offshoot of an older race.

Both are mind-boggling. Carter apparently was told that we are the genetic creation of an older race, that we are tenants here, not owners. I think that I really messed him up. as a guy who taught Sunday school and built houses for the poor. Right. And I could see that messing a messing career up. But yeah, I think there's a lot more going on.

What we can say is that there's a lot more going on than we're willing that we're presently willing to look at. That kind of brings me to a question about Congress. As an observer outside of D.C., right? I mean, literally on the other side of the country, when you talk about the Hollywood scene, what is that to someone like yourself? looking from kind of like a Hollywood perspective on what Congress is doing.

And people like Annapalino Luna, Nancy Mace, and Scott Carlson, who are, I'm sorry, Eric Burleson, who kind of, you know, had this transparency task force. And then they try to say, you know, we're looking into all these things. They bring on David Brush. They want to have hearings. They want to go into skiffs and interview witnesses. How does that play just looking at it as an outside observer for someone like you? I see what you're wrong with that question.

Yes, it's a performative. It's a show. Absolutely, 100%, as is most of what Congress does. It's a show, unfortunately. We find multi-billion dollars of fraud, waste, and abuse, and yet Congress doesn't approve to trim them. But, you know, there's definitely, you know, more for thee and none for thee. Why do you think they would have such an outward interest in it?

Why do you think they want to come out so much in front of the camera, so to speak, and say, hey, look, we really want to figure this stuff out? Because they can't keep it in the basket much longer. You know, social media, the digital revolution, the interconnections between people, if someone in Kansas sees a UFO and films it on their phone, that suddenly millions of people around the world can see what this one person,

saw and what used to be just a report, a police report that can be sort of, you know, read in some obscure book somewhere is now available to everybody. So, and that and a whole lot of other evidentiary sort of threads are coming together to say, these dudes are why. So they're trying to get a hold ahead of the narrative. And they're also trying to delay sort of getting serious about it for as long as part. possible. And that's the game we're seeing playing out. I think we need the public's help. We need more and more people to demand, you know, and to say, hey, you know, you're not fooling me. And we need to see the real evidence because that's what we need to see. We have the data. We need to get the data to the scientists. You know, this, we need to get, we need to make it acceptable for the scientists to look at the data.

And that's just now becoming apparent with Avi Lowe. and these cats are just now being turning their head toward the light and being giving permission to do it publicly. A lot of scientists look at this stuff right at our own time. Right. But there's a social stigma that's still in place. We're slowly and surely we're breaking that down. Yeah, exactly right.

I mentioned I'll be low. That was just about to say because I spoke to him last week or two weeks ago. And I asked him that question actually said, look, you know, I really admire you for someone in your position as a lot. an astrophysicist at Harvard to be able to take this question seriously and have the Galileo project. Pioneer. It is, right. And I actually brought that up to me.

I said, why doesn't, not to put anybody else down, but I said, why doesn't someone like Neil deGrasse Tyson take this seriously his well? And, I mean, his words were that he thinks it's silly that they don't, at least from a national security perspective, if nothing else. Gatekeepers, you know, DeGrasse, Tyson, he's a gatekeeper. Think so? Carl Sagan was a gatekeeper although I think Sagan actually privately, you know, he knew more than Tyson does.

Yeah. And there are reasons to choose to be gatekeepers and those gatekeepers in Satan's day had a function that you can argue was necessary to sort of hold the pillars of society in place.

But this is a new world now. The gatekeepers are getting in the way. We have to push them upside. and get down to the truth. Well, I could honestly talk to you for like the next hour. Maybe we'll schedule something else on the long-form version of UAP in the future. But to get chatting around this, I know you have a new book coming out, you're working on it. So I want to ask you about that.

What can people look forward to with the new book? A human's guide to visiting aliens. I like that. I know, I do too. Nice. So I'm fishing. I'm going to like it too. That helps.

No, I was interested in something that I'm trying to push the conversation forward, but also give a, give, an entry level of folks who are interested in this phenomenon, but having, you know, they don't have the time to sort of go deep, you know. I think a lot of people are interested, but they just don't have time. So they have a surface level awareness. Right. They have the basic questions. You know, if they're real, why don't we know about it?

You know, how could they get here? Why do they crash all the time? I want to take those questions and frame them in a way that, people who are very experienced with the phenomenon will also get a kick out of it and take that conversation further. I think we're dealing with a non-local information system that's been installed around our planet. That's been in, that installation process is occurring over 80 years.

And we are just now, our technology is just now awakening with AI, quantum computing, to expose the, that. non-local alien information system that is installed around our planet now. The monitoring system, and it's always a multifaceted sort of, you know, like biology. Nothing has just one function. Right. With these aliens, in my opinion. So I get into some fun stuff.

I love that. I can't wait to read it. Thanks. Look forward to it. Thomas, Jane. Thanks so much. You bet. Right here in the OIP.

Hey, guys. So before we get back into the conversation, I just want to talk about something that affects all of us. And it's scary. Starting something new, right? It's hard and it is kind of terrifying because you think about all the work that goes into it. Are you going to be able to succeed? What new challenges am I going to face?

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meet up with them afterwards too. Because after we were done, it was about 4.30 or so. And we were both just like, all right, I guess that's it for now. And then everybody kind of parts their, you know, goes their separate ways. And that was the portion of the day where, everyone's out on the lobby floor. And that's where you have a lot of like the socializing, everybody getting together, you know, these people who don't see each other very often, they're all in the same stratosphere as far as, or the same universe, I guess I could say, as far as, you know, the UFO topic, the community.

But how often do you all really get together, right? And that's what made this convention so great was it gave us all that opportunity to have like a real community, right? your UFO community or UFO Twitter or whatever you want to call it. But then you're actually having that community moment together in person. So when everybody's done with their interviews and the speakers, you know, the lectures and all that, you go out to the lobby floor and there is Ross Coldheart talking with Corbell and there's Thomas Jane sitting with Paul Heineck, which is where I ended up after our interview.

I was at that table where we were all going back and forth. And it's just there was just so much going. on and everywhere you look, you're like, oh wow, look, there's that person. Oh, wow, great to see that person. And it was just such a fantastic experience. I can't say enough good things about it. I hate to beat a dead horse with that, but it was, it was really, it was unique. And I'm really glad that I was able to be a part of it and meet so many great people and be a part of those conversations. But lastly, speaking of conversations, I want to bring to this final part with Whitley Streber. And like I said, he was in the middle, but I wanted to give this one last. It was the longest of the

three interviews. It lasted about 20 minutes, just about. And listen, I mean, he was great. It's Whitley Streber. He's a legend in this, wrote the book Communion, has unbelievable stories with close encounters with extraterrestials of all different kinds. And that's what we get into is how things have evolved since then, since his book came out so long ago. And also, how he sees things going now towards the future, right? So what is that gap been like? And I also asked him, and he was really intrigued by this question. And I was, I was honored to kind of throw Whitley Streeper off. I thought he's heard it all before in so many of the interviews that he's done. But he actually, I actually

had him thinking on this one. It was towards the end of the conversation. And I asked him, what do you think the grays, specifically the grays, want us to know about them? And that got him thinking. So listen for that toward the end of the conversation. And you can hear the whole thing right now. Myself and Whitley Streber, the audio quality is better on this one right now here on UAP. And then stick around

for my final thoughts, some shoutouts and that story I was telling you about with everybody at that table at the end of the night. It was pretty funny. So right now here's Whitley Streber, myself, at Contact in the Desert. Happy to welcome now, Whitley Streber to you AP for the first time. First time.

Absolutely. I love that. Really, thanks so much for coming on here at Contact in the Desert. I'm really happy to talk to you. Yeah, well, it's really extraordinary. Contacting the Desert is a lot of fun. That's a fantastic event. And I wanted to ask you, actually, well, there's a few things in my mind as we talk here today. Your book, Communion.

Yeah. It really has become one of the go-to books over the years for a lot of people. Anytime I speak to somebody to say, well, I first got interested, when i read communion and that happens a lot so what i ask you in the years since the book came out how have you seen not only the opinion on the book evolved but the discussion just the general discussion around the UFO topic evolved since communion came out well when it first came out of course the opinion was what else is not doing and uh now a lot of people at all the many different levels

in science and in the academy and intellectual cultures take the book seriously. But you know who took the book seriously from the very beginning were the people this happened to. And that is what

made that the book was a record of first contact. I just didn't know it at the time because what would happen people would see that face on the cover and they'd think, oh my God, that weird thing, that wasn't. It wasn't a dream. It happened to him too. And they pick up the book. And then they send me letters. And the letters are now all archived beautifully at Rice University in Houston. So the evolution has been from total disbelief to a presence for this experience in the people who have it at a very prestigious, one of those prestigious universities in the world.

That's fantastic. There's something that strikes me. You mentioned the picture on the front of the book, that famous picture of the, you know, kind of classic like gray aliens, the same face, the black almond eyes. And you say when people see that, they think, oh my gosh, that's the same thing I saw and I'm not the only one. I'm not alone. And it seems like over the years, over the decades, quite frankly, that is the kind of image that people report from their abduction cases. Yeah. So what do you think of the phenomenon of?

all of these beings looking the same. How does that happen? Why does that happen? Because you and I, right, we're humans. We look different. So how does that happen? No, that's because we don't know them very well. If we knew them as well as we knew each other,

we would be able to tell differences in their faces, I'm sure. But, you know, you can't tell much of the difference between a face of two lions. You can two dogs because we have been. with dogs a long time and we've bred them and we've made them into different shapes and forms but a lion can tell another lion from himself or from other lions they have very easily and you know over time if we see them so infrequently and I'm here at contact of the desert I have an image of one which is a real image and but the strangest thing they know it's a real image because this being

you can't see it very well but if you look closely it's wearing a surgical mask and coming up out from below out of the ground and no one would think to make a fake like that it was taken on security camera

and the fact that that mask is there means it's probably a real picture and the being if you look at it it has a more you begin to see someone there so we just have to have to have more experienced with them, then we will see more, we will see them more as individuals, I think.

It's really interesting comparison when you talk about different creatures like lions and dogs. And so do we, do we think of extraterrestrials as, well, obviously, intelligent beings, but when I say, are they something different where they don't have a lot of different defining characteristics like humans would? Is it somewhere, somewhere in between human? Yeah, I think that's accurate. I think they have a group mind. I'm not so sure that every one of them shares it exactly,

but I think their mind is, they're linked intellectually, mentally. And each one is a different personality, but because they share the same mind, they're not that different from each other as us, I don't think. But it's not what they call it. People say, oh, it's a hive mind. But it seems to me it's very complex and more like a kind of communal mind, you know,

that has a lot of different variability in it. Communion, right? Exactly. Exactly. Because there always have been theories where people say, okay, are they drones, are they robots, are they clones? Is that why they all look the same? Do you think there's anything to that or is it deeper?

Well, I am aware of two forms of the graves. One is about five feet tall, and the others are about three feet tall. And I think the three-foot-tall ones are not independent entities. I think they're somehow like robotic assistance are almost kind of linked to the taller ones. It's not something we have in our world. but I think that the smaller ones are purpose-built to do things like encounter and subdue a human being and that they deploy those when they want to engage with somebody in some way but the taller, more vulnerable one stands back in case something happens.

So the shorter ones maybe being some type of advanced form of AI? Well, I think that, yeah, I'm not sure. but what they are, but they're definitely linked to the taller ones. When you see the shorter ones coming toward you, it's because they're being sent by someone. And they kind of like

float, right? There's not like... They can. Yeah, they can float a few inches above the ground. Maybe they can really levitate. I thought I saw that once or twice, but I'm not sure. But yeah, they can do a lot of things with atomic structure.

Like they can, I've recently I heard a story I mean, I heard the story it happened to a friend of him grabbed by the wrist and pulled up through the ceiling and people are told it people tell it being put

taken through walls and ceilings and stuff all the time yeah and that means they can rearrange atomic structure right and years and years ago they said to one of the Abducteases 25 30 years ago we rearrange atoms

And I think that's a secret to a lot of the things they do that seem impossible. Amazing. What did you make out of the recent comments, Eric Davis, when he was in front of the Congressional Roundtable, Avi Loeb is there, Lou Elizando is there, and Eric Davis made a lot of waves at that meeting because he says, as he and Eric Burleson, Congressman Eric Burleson from Missouri,

are sitting next to each other like you and I are. And Eric Davis says to Congressman Burleson, there's four different types of species. that we know about here on Earth. We talked about reptilians and all these different types, the grays. What was your reaction when you heard that? When you saw that being said to a congressman

in a setting like that? I thought to myself, boy, it's been a while for this to happen. Interestingly enough, the tall whites, the grays, and the Nordics, I've all had experiences with all of those. All four? Well, no.

I don't know what the reptilians are. I've never had any experience with them that I know of. So three out of the four of that? Yeah, three. of the poor. And I was thinking to myself, you know, it's such a huge universe. Is Eric sure he's only got four species here? At 21, 16, in planets, it could be more than four. I believe it was Paul Hellier, the former Canadian defense minister who said way more than

four, if I remember correctly. They did. He did. But I think that what Eric was referring to is that apparently he's aware of interaction with these four. And in my life, he's, it's interaction with three of them. Where do you think this ends up with Lee as far as where we are now, right, in 2025 and where we were forget 30, 40 years ago,

10 years ago and how much five, yeah, right, and how much the conversation has evolved. Where do you see this conversation or even some type of possible basic disclosure? How do you see this all evolving in the next five, 10, 15 years?

Okay, there's really two things. that can happen. One is, at some point, the someone in a position of enough authority to be incontrovertible will say this is real and these beings are here. That could happen. And that means that there would be some sort of disclosure on our side. The other possibility is one or another or more of these, and are going to show up in some way. I don't know if either thing will happen, but both could. And I think that, excuse me, I think that it's more likely that someone is going to show up

over the next five or ten years than it is that we're going to disclose, because I think that the whole disclosure issue is much more fraud. with problems that people realize. I think that the defense industry is threatened by it. It's very existence is threatened by this. Because a lot of things are going to be probably revealed that they're going to make it look as if they have betrayed the American people.

And I don't think that's true, but I think that's what's going to look like. Do you think there's a race between nations, not only to uncover, kind of crack the code on the technology when it comes to reverse engineering, but a race to, to be, to not get caught with, you know, the saying not to get caught with your pants down type thing.

Yeah. Where it comes to the United States, it's kind of a catch-22, right? Where they don't want China or Russia or Iran, North Korea, any adversarial nation to come out and say, oh, by the way, this is what's going on. Do you think that plays into it at all? When it just when it comes to the United States and how they look at it. I think it plays into it a great deal in two ways. The first way is the danger that an adversary power will become aware of the fact that the United States either has or is about to get and become able to deploy a weapon so dominant that it will basically neutralize everyone else. That would place them in the position of having to strike first.

And I think that's a serious issue in the Pentagon. The second possibility is that everyone is going to come at the same general time to the same conclusions. I think that it might be the discovery of how to manipulate gravity will happen in more than one country at the same time. I know the Chinese are very close and so are we. I don't know the Russians where they are. They could be even farther along. China's close, though. I think so, yeah.

I'm aware of some things that have happened that between us and China that suggests that. And I know that we are close. I think we may already be there on the one hand. On the other hand, it could just be people, you know, blowing smoke. I mean, you don't know whether or not we have a gravity generator or not. because it has to be anti-gravity is not a correct word. It's something that generates its own gravity

and therefore becomes its own universe and has its own physics within that universe. That's why the UFO can defy the laws of physics because the physics inside the gravity well, the little gravity well of the UFO, are not being defied by what it is. does because it's that that is a designer of physics in there essentially it's like a gravitational force generator it generates it generates its own gravity and therefore

creates its own universe around it amazing a couple more things before we're done here and I'm really glad we got to talk yeah me too I'm glad it worked out yes I really appreciate the time 2027 a lot's been talked about you know we're two years away from that eventually speculation will turn into reality and we'll all see what happened in 2027 because a lot of people speculate well supposedly it's supposed to be some type of you know apocalyptic disclosure situation or ross coldhart made some news recently in an interview where he said that he's been told that we're on borrowed time and this is something that people talk to him about all the time in 2027 what are your thoughts on what that date might mean for for disclosure

well i don't i don't buy into dates i've seen too many uh uh uh changing dates come and go with nothing happening. That goes way back. But that doesn't mean that we aren't unborrowed time because the planet is becoming unstable. And in very obvious ways. I mean, look at the United States over the past few months. It's just been storm after storm after storm

across the whole center of the country. Meanwhile, the southwest has been involved in horrible drought. and then in Texas, terrific storms. It's just very unsettled. It's unsettled all over the world. A glacier recently collapsed in Switzerland destroyed a whole town.

Yeah, that was terrible. I saw that. Yeah, exactly. And this sort of thing is going to happen more and more. And eventually, it's going to become apparent that the planet is no longer able to support us. And there are numerous things that could happen to cause that. The collapse of the North Atlantic current would change the climate radically in Europe immediately,

like in a day if it collapsed. If methane gas, if the methane hydrates along the continental shelves warm up to above 47 degrees Fahrenheit, they begin to gas out and that methane gas comes up into the air and suddenly it changes the whole planets. atmosphere and any of these things had happened and they're going to happen in 2027 2037 2037 I have no idea but we are definitely on borrowed time and it's nobody's fault this is the thing that's so important people fight over this yeah it's because there's simply too many of us and why is there too many of us there are too many of us because of the way we are built we are hairless We have no sexual seasonality.

We have large, prominent genitals and excellent imaginations. You put that together, you're going to get a lot of kids. As simple as that. And did somebody design us? Because Thomas Malthus, in the 18th century, correctly predicted the population crisis we're in right now. We're at the top of a bell curve in population. The population of the planet is just now flatlining, it's just beginning to stabilize,

but the other side of the bell curve is a rapid decline. This is going to happen. What's going to be here after that? I don't know. But I have a feeling it's going to be to do with these visitors because I think in some way, they're midwives to the birth of a new kind of humanity. And if they're not, then they're undertakers.

And I suspect knowing, the grays as well as I do, they'd rather be midwives. It's really interesting. And actually leads me to my final question. If there was one thing, and this might be an impossible question, but the best you can, if there was one thing that the grays specifically would want the human race to know about them or about life, what do you think that would be? Like, what's the message they would want people to know about when it comes to why they're

hear what they're doing in all the above that's an interesting question because they're so secretive and so they get so pissed off at me when i spill any of their secrets which i do occasionally by accident because i you know they don't ever tell me they don't i think they like to get pissed off at me because they don't tell me what not to do but then when i do things they don't want me to do they get pissed off well i don't want to get you in trouble so no the no the I think that they are being very careful about something called cultural colonization, that they do not want a situation that when they come out and become public knowledge, we just forget our own culture and turn to them and start grabbing for their flying saucers

and their cell phones to the beyond or whatever they have. We need to be able to go down our own path and stay on our own path. because they want a relationship with us. They don't want supplicants and they don't want slaves. They want friends. And they don't want worshippers either anymore. I think they've been there and done that in the past. And so they basically, if they've known anything from us,

it's for us to remain ourselves and remain a coherent species with all of its many cultures and its many different ways of seeing the world and include them in that mix. They want to be in communion with us. That's what the book's about. There we go. At least, Schubert, thanks so much. It's my pleasure.

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And thanks again to Whitley for doing that. Actually, it was funny. We were supposed to meet earlier in the day, and he got his times mixed up. So the behind the scenes on that one is I was kind of just sitting there like, okay, I guess not going to be interviewing Whitley Stuber after all. So to his credit, he was very apologetic. did not mean to blow me off by any means. It wasn't that at all. He just, he had another interview and another time and thought one was the other one. So it all got worked out and we ended up about an hour and a half later than what we were supposed to do, which it all worked out fine anyway.

It wasn't a bother. But it was funny because at that moment, and I love to give me all these behind the scenes stories, because all you really see is the interview or hear it. But how it came about, I always loved giving you the behind the scenes. Because I had left the interview area and the. media section. And I said to Dan Harari from the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance, he was texting Whitley Streber saying, hey, Stephen Deiner is waiting to talk to you. Like, you know, we were supposed to meet. And then we were waiting for an answer. So I said, look, Dan, you know, let me know. I'm going to go get something to eat, socialize a little bit. And then about an hour later, Dan Harari texts

me while I'm standing there speaking with Patrick from Vetted and with Ashton Forbes. And the three of us are hanging out talking, laughing it up. You know, it was first time. The three of us have met each other all at once. We took a picture and Ashton put that one up on Twitter and a lot of people like that. So that was a cool moment. And I'm sitting there talking to them and all of a sudden I get a text from Dan who are we saying, get your butt over here.

Whitley Streber is about to show up. So I'm like, sorry, guys, I got to go. I really want to stay and talk. So I go running back to the media room. And it was just craziness, but in the best way possible. And Whitley was great. He was very apologetic. because I'm so sorry for missing that earlier, but like I said, everything just worked out perfectly.

I think everything worked out the way it was supposed to. And he was fantastic. And I said to him afterward, it was a funny moment. I had never had this happen before. I never done this. And maybe I'm just not technologically advanced. But I said to him after we were done talking, I said, you know, I would love to stay in contact with you and have you on. Same thing with Kelly Chase.

Have you on another time in a longer form interview. He said, yeah, sure, no problem. you know, maybe I get your email. We can talk back and forth. He said, well, why don't we just touch our phones together? We both have iPhones and we'll share contact information. I said, we can do that? He said, I think so.

I've never tried it, but that's what I've heard. So we end up touching our phones, you know, like head to head. And sure enough, Whitley Streamers' contact information showed up on my phone. It made like this weird, magical sound, and my information went to his phone. And I know you probably think of yourself, oh, my gosh, Stephen, I can't believe you didn't know that you could do that, but I swear to you, I didn't know. But it was awesome, and it was just kind of funny because we were just talking about

all those things you heard there, and we kind of had that, you know, alien moment, if you will, like alien technology. It was pretty funny. So he will definitely come on later on in the year. I think he's going to be on vacation for the next couple of months, so all the power to him for that one. But I'll stay in

contact with Whitley, with Kelly Chase, and Thomas Jane. All three of them said they'd be happy to come on for a longer form interview we're here again on UAP. So really great to build those relationships and that's really what was one of the main things was building these relationships meeting everybody and just saying hello and having those again that that human to human connection and knowing that hey we're not just faces or words on on the internet we're actually real people we all actually are pretty cool with each other so that was it was fun

to do all that so i hope you enjoyed all those interviews it was a great time great experience and I do want to give those shoutouts, like I said earlier. Jenny, Danny, and her son, Carolina and her son, Jared, Lori, just to name some of them. There are so many people who came up who love the show, who love what I do, and it meant so much for all of you. There were so many more that I didn't even get to name Daryl was another one. Daryl was great. He was working actually with Tyler when we were doing our interview on his podcast for Total Disclosure. there were so many of you who came up and introduced yourselves and said Stephen's so happy to meet you

this is so great and trust me I want to say to all of you who came up and got to introduce yourself and say hello I want to say the pleasure was all mine it was so cool it was such a rewarding experience to meet so many of you who came up to me to say hello and were genuinely excited to say hi to me it was it was pretty cool it was a cool moment in fact Dan Harari who I mentioned there from from from HDA. It was one point where he's like, oh my gosh, he's like,

this is crazy. It's like I'm hanging out with Ringo from the Beatles. I said, okay, it's not to that level that he was messing around, but it was,

it was just, it was really cool. And I really appreciate everybody who went out of their way to find me and to say hello or who stopped me just while I was walking

through the hotel, walking through the convention and say, oh my gosh, it's so nice to meet you. And again, pleasure was all mine. So thank you to all of you

who stopped by to say hello. And hopefully we can do it again. Next time at Contact in the Desert 26 or if something else comes up before then, then that works great too. So, fun story before we go, I mentioned the table I ended up at before or after, you know, we were done with all of the lectures and the speaking and the interviews. Myself, Thomas Jane, James Fox, Matt Ford from The Good Trouble Show, like I mentioned, Chris Ramsey, Jeremy Corbell, George Knapp, all these people at the same table. and I said, all right, that's where I want to sit. So I walk up, mind if I sit down? Oh, sure, go ahead.

Everybody's having fun. Everybody's talking. It ends up with Chris Ramsey doing magic tricks because why wouldn't he? Right? He's, you know, magician. And he has not only has a great show on his own right, but, and by the way, he said he would love to come on to the show as well. So just throwing that out there.

Love to have Chris Ramsey on. We're going to get together at some point. We'll try to set that up. And Matt Ford, shout out to him. He was fantastic. He and I spoke for like two hours that night, just like one-on-one. And he's absolutely down to come on to you AP. So expect Matt Ford from The Good Trouble Show to be on here at some point soon as well.

So again, to make all these contacts, it was just so great to meet everybody and talk to everybody. So we're all sitting there at this table. It's like a surreal moment as I'm looking around. I really wish I'd taken a picture of everybody because to have all those people in one spot was extremely rare, I thought. But I kind of kicked myself for not getting that picture out there for everybody to see. Anyway, really fun, really cool experience to look around and see all these great talents at one spot together. And then Chris Ramsey takes out his deck of cards and says, right, I'm going to do a magic trick. Who's down?

Of course. Everybody says yes. So I don't know how he did this, but he takes a black king or both black kings, the spade and the club, and then both red kings, the heart and the diamond, and puts them in a square, right? So, you know, one, top, bottom, you know what I mean, makes it a square shape. And then says to each of us goes to me, goes to James Fox, goes to Thomas Jane, Dan Cleary was there as well, he goes to him. And everybody else at the table, he says, all right, takes out a bunch of cards and says, where should I put them, red or black? So we each took turns. I say red.

Someone else says black and so on and so forth. Until he dumps the entire deck and it was up to us saying, where should I put? this pile. Where should I put this pile on the red pile or the black pile? Red pile or black pile. And we all gave our answers. And then at the end of it, by the time that we all chose were to put that pile of cards on the red or the black side, he turns over all four piles and they all match. Both Red Kings had all red cards attached. Both Black Kings had all black cards attached. Somehow, some way. This this mess. Magic man, Chris Ramsey, is just having us tell him where to put the cards.

And somehow, what should be statistically impossible, which is why it's magic, I suppose, somehow they all ended up in the same color, in the same area matching each other. I don't know. How he did it? It happened right in front of me. There was no trick to it that I could tell. We were all just saying put it in the red pile, put it in the black pile, and they all ended up in the same color. just incredible. All the reds were with the reds, all the blacks were with the blacks.

It was wild. I've never had like street magic done to me at that level before, but he was good. He actually did another one where he put his hand in his pocket and said, all right, think of a number between one to 100. And it was Dan Cleary, I believe, who said 72. Chris Ramsey says, okay, why did you pick that number? He'd give him an answer. He said, okay, takes his hand out of his pocket, puts it down, he says, this was all the change in my pocket. And you guessed it. It was 72 cents exactly. How is that possible? I don't know, but this all happened.

And leave it to Chris Ramsey to do something like that. He was a fascinating dude. I'd never met him before. I told him I admire his work and I think he does a great job on his show. And it was just cool to be a part of this fraternity and to have that, you know, all these moments, all these cool moments, all these conversations in person with everybody. And I can't wait to do it again next year. see you there next time I contact in the desert 2026. But those are my experiences. That was

everything. Awesome time. Great interviews. And so much more, too. I mentioned Dan Hurari a few times. I had a great interview with him that I didn't get to put in here because it would have made this episode too long. I already made it long enough with the talking that I'm doing mixed with the interviews. But Dan Harari, if you've never heard his story, and plus he's been on the show before and told the story, so I don't want to repeat it. but if you've never heard his story that he told here on UAP about a year and a half ago, it remains for me one of the best alien stories I've ever heard in my life. Honestly, like with everybody they've spoken to on the show or outside of the show,

Dan Harari's story about a close encounter that he had and how it affected his life later on is one of the best stories I've ever heard, and it should be a movie, and I told him that. So that interview is up on YouTube and I believe on Twitter. So if you want to watch those as well, take a look for those and follow along on social media, those places at UA Podcast 850 on TikTok and Twitter. And YouTube, it's at UA Podcast. Like I said, everything you heard here, including Dan Harari, which you didn't hear, all on those social media platforms.

So feel free to watch those at your convenience as well. Also, feel free to reach out to me on those platforms with messages. I always respond. And at email S.Dener, UAP, at Gmail. com that's s d i e n-r uap at gmail dot com and continue to download and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcast as always um this was all from the heart today didn't have anything written down this was uh just me telling you from the heart exactly how everything went and i'm really glad that i did go and i got to tell you how everything went down because it was it was a

great time and i'm glad i got to tell you all about it but until next time here on uap so much more a plan coming up in the future so make sure to stick around and And like I say, continue to download and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcast. So you don't miss anything. Like one of my next episodes coming up with Scott Rotor. Yes, I mentioned it last week, but he is coming back. We're going to talk. So keep an eye and ear out for that one.

Scott Rotor coming back here onto UAP. That should be good stuff. But until then, until next time. Thank you again for everything, for all the support. It really does mean the world to me. I love it. And you're all so great. So thank you so much.

So until next time, it's Stephen Deiner here saying be well. Thanks again. We'll talk again soon right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast.