UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 137 "Debriefing" with Chris Ramsey

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Famous magician and UFO investigator, Chris Ramsey of the "Debriefed" podcast, joins Stephen Diener for a unique and wide ranging discussion about the alien phenomenon. What are the best cases? How does remote viewing play into it all? And what are the similarities between magic and how the UFO topic is covered? All of this and so much more in this very fun episode...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Grab the Dave and Mahoney podcast now on Apple Podcasts on Spotify and at Dave and Mahoney.com. Yes, welcome back into UAP. Stephen Deaner here with you, as always, on the Unidentified Alien podcast for episode number 137 officially here on UAP. And I'm happy to say and excited to say some of the stuff that we got coming up here for you. Starting with today, Chris Ramsey joining the show from the Area 52 YouTube channel with his podcast. debriefed. Man, just an unbelievable guy,

and I'm really glad I was able to talk to him. He's someone, you know, I admire some people from afar when it comes to their work and what they do. Chris Ramsey's is one of them. I love the way that he approaches the subject. I think he does a great job on his show. I think the setting looks great

and how he has like the skiff room and everything like that. He's spoken to some unbelievable guests. So I was really happy to be able to speak to him about his thoughts on the UAP phenomenon. on and how he approaches it and who he's spoken to, who he wants to speak to, some people that, you know, he hasn't spoken to, that he would love to speak to in the future. So we're starting off with Chris Ramsey here today for episode 137, but also coming up in the future.

We are just loaded, very, very fortunate to be able to bring you all the different interviews I've been able to do thus far. And after Chris Ramsey, we're going to hear from Scott Rotter, had a really cool discussion with Scott Roder a few days ago, so that's going to come out this week. And then next week, Matt Laslo from Ascapul in Washington, D.C., he's going to join the show. And we're going to hear from him about the scene in D.C. What is happening with Congress? What's happening with David Grush?

What's happening with the congressional members and the Transparency Task Force? There are very few people more connected than Matt Laslo when it comes to the happenings of D.C. Like, I would put him and Steve Bassett. And that's like, that's the list. So those are the two guys in my both. and I apologize for leaving anybody else out, but he does it a great job of getting different scoops and exclusive interviews with congressmen and congresswomen. So I'm really looking forward to speaking with Matt Laslow in the next few days as well. So first off, though, we got Chris Ramsey here today, like I said, from the debriefed podcast.

And just a really fun discussion. I had a great time. I mean, really, like literally a great time talking to him. And I think you're going to enjoy listening to it as well because we touch on everything. This wasn't just like one of those things. Like when I talked to Scott, right, it's about the Vegas aliens. It's about MH370, right? There's certain subjects, right, that I'd like to cover with somebody.

I want to bring on a guest to talk about a specific subject or two, right? If I talk to Ashton Forbes, I want to talk about quantum mechanics and physics and, you know, the disappearance of MH370. So there's those different examples. When I speak to Chris Ramsey was like, let's talk about remote viewing. Let's talk about magic. Let's talk about how the principles of magic connect to the UFO topic and how it's covered. Let's talk about the Wall Street Journal article. Like there is so much.

Let's talk about some of the best stories and your favorite stories that you like to talk about. What got you into the UFO topic? So there's just so much that we can cover it together. And we did that. And I think we did it in a fun and meaningful way that I think you'll enjoy. So sit back, relax. Nice little discussion here with Chris Ramsey. great guy, great podcaster, and super knowledgeable, super smart right here on UAP for episode 137 right now.

Enjoy. Well, really happy to have Chris Ramsey join me here on UAP. He's the host of the debrief podcast on his Area 52 YouTube channel. Chris, thanks for joining me here on UAP. This is great. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah, of course.

And I'm glad we got to meet up at Contact in the Desert. That's the first time I've ever kind of got to say hello to each other. and from there, this interview kind of spawns, so I'm glad it worked out that way. Actually, on that note, just your thoughts, since we're a little bit removed from contact in the desert. That was my first time there. I think it was your first time there.

What were your thoughts coming out of there? It was great. Phenomenal, nice to meet some of the community, some of the people I interact with online, to meet them in person was always fun. And then, obviously, you know, it was quite a difference. I went to, I think, December, I was out like the

was the congressional hearing and I was with Jesse Michaels and he was just getting bombarded you know and I was kind of a fly on the wall which wasn't the case to contact I mean it was the case for Jesse again he was also getting bombarded but I was also you know just

a lot of people were really excited about the show and they're big fans so that was a nice surprise for me getting to interact with some of the people that watch the you know the podcast and being able to see their faces. It was pretty cool. Yeah, no, same for me. It was really just a cool experience

to have that actual human interaction, right, rather than a keyboard and a screen. Definitely. It was really fun. But, you know, something that I have always kind of found fascinating about your path and your career is not only are you a great magician,

which I saw firsthand, by the way, and I'm still trying to figure out how I did those tricks at the table that day, but to kind of delve into the UFO topic. what brought you to that? Because, you know, to kind of, I guess, evolve from the magician side of things, which obviously still do, so it's not like you stopped, but also to add the UFO topic under your belt.

What kind of brought that about for you? It was kind of, I mean, I think I've always been fascinated with this stuff anyways. Like, since I was a kid, I was involved in, I mean, involved in. I'd follow all the stories that led down, you know, various paranormal paths. especially around psychic stuff and aliens. You know, I watched fire in the sky when I was nine years old, which, you know, really got me hooked in the subject because there was a giant disclaimer at the beginning of that movie

that says this is based on a true story. You know, and for a nine-year-old, you're having an adult telling you that aliens are real. You kind of take that to the bank, so to speak. And so I was always really interested in, you know, growing up, even I remember when YouTube was coming around, Before I started posting on YouTube, so over a dozen years ago, I was falling down all sorts of rabbit holes with Bill Cooper and Phil Schneider and Bob Lazar and all this. So really heavily interested in the topic.

And then a few years ago, a friend of mine, Nelson Dallas, who's a memory champion, had told me about this sort of program that he was involved in where he was being trained to remote view for like some hedge fund for like the stuff. stock market or something. And I was like, that's a wild thing to tell me as a magician, because I'm a skeptic when it comes to these things. And so I wanted to learn more, went down the rabbit hole. And yeah, the rest is history. I started documenting my journey through remote viewing, through the gateway process as well, the out-of-body stuff, and then just ended up creating a whole new channel separate from magic and really immersed myself into this venture completely almost separating myself from everything else I was doing on YouTube and solely focused on this.

Yeah, that's so cool, man. I mean, do you feel like it was a leap of faith for you to kind of say, geez, I'm going to kind of delve into this? Like, it was something that you've been interested in and kind of like, you know, in your private life, you speak to your friends about it, you find things out on your own time. Was it that kind of leap of faith for you to say, I'm going to put myself out there? Did that worry you? Didn't worry me so much in terms of putting.

putting myself out there. I never really, I've, I mean, I'm a magician, man. Like, I've already put myself out there to a lot of the people I know. You know what I mean? Like when you're like, I'm going to be a magician. People are like, you might as well tell them you're going to be a pirate. So, yeah, that I was never phased by what other people thought. I don't consider this realm to be, you know, of the impossible. So for me, it's, it's not as ridiculous as it may sound to some other people. And if it does sound ridiculous to some people, I just think they're ill-informed. So, you know, yeah, it wasn't that much of a stretch. But, you know, to make the leap from having a cemented career as a magician on YouTube

into a completely different topic, yeah, that did take a bit of a, you know, leap of faith, but I believe in the vision that, you know, I'm creating right now and I don't see any other way of doing it. So, you know, for me, it's this way or the highway, I guess, yeah. Well, I think it's great, man. I know a lot of people agree with me. So keep it up. That's my take on it. Where do you see?

By the way, there's a lot of stuff you said there with the remote viewing things that I want to touch on. That was like, whoa, that's one, two, three, four things that caught my ear. But I'm wondering, where do you see the parallel for yourself when it comes to your experience with magic and how you perform? Maybe even some of the deception that's used during. during different tricks. Where do you see the off-ramp from the magic side of things to the UFO topic?

Do you see parallels with those two conversations sometimes? Definitely, yeah. There's multiple associations that one can make through magic and the UFO space. One being obviously, you know, we're looking at SIOP

in terms of SIOP. They use the same techniques magicians do, but they use it for nefarious reason. So, you know, on a spectrum of being fooled, the positive side would look like a magic trick and the negative side would look like a sciop, right? So it's kind of the same tactics used for different goals. So, yeah, there's definitely an overlay there. You know, I went to, in Washington when I was down there, actually, I went to the spy museum. I was there with Jesse.

And it was interesting because I was walking around. I was like, this is just magic tricks. Like there's so many, like, whether it's like the things that are hidden. in their shoes or in their trench coats or, you know, there's a radio that looks like a rock that they're high, like this is all just magic to me. It's all just magic tricks. And if you go to a magic shop or you're familiar with, you know, how magic tricks work, you'll recognize a lot of these things. And there's even a guy John Mulholland in the 50s who was hired by the CIA to teach them about misdirection and ledger domain and sleight of hand.

And so he wrote a manual for the CIA back in the 50s on how to sort of, you know, hide something that they might need to hide if they were undercover or that type of thing. So there's always been a connection there, I think. And I'm still, I'm actually aware of certain magicians who've consulted for, you know, these three letter agencies. And I think if I'm not mistaken, I think Apollo Robbins, who's like the world's best pickpocket was often used as in a consulting role, I think. That's why.

But naturally that, you know, they would do that. They would hire people who've studied misdirection and showmanship and suggestion and all these things very intensely. Like, I mean, they have a big budget. They're going to use it for, you know, their own personal gain. So, yeah, naturally they would turn to, you know, magicians to want to learn stuff. So it's no surprise that there is an overlap there. I will be, you know, that's, I mean, I think it's quite obvious.

And in terms of everything else, here's the other connection that I made with magic is that during magic performances, magicians will often tell you if you ask them to let you in, like, ask them if they've ever performed a miracle. And every magician will have a story for you, at least one, but they'll probably have plenty. And the stories are usually pretty wild. Like they're like astronomical in terms of odds. Something just worked out. Two people had the same birthday and then this happened. And then he named the card that she had.

And these little tiny miracles tend to happen quite a bit. And it's interesting because Russell Targ, who, you know, famously started Stargate and the whole SRI Stanford Research Institute looking into remote viewing. Well, he started his interest in sci ability due to the fact that he was a stage magician. So he would do things on stage and quickly realize that there was sort of this psychic event happening sometimes. And that triggered his curiosity enough to want to go into sci research. And so, yeah, there is that as well. There is that overlap.

So there's a lot of things that you can connect magic to. But I think just like many other art forms, you'll find that they're present in the things. things that you're passionate about, you'll just kind of pick up on that. But yeah, magic specifically, I think is inherently linked to a lot of the things that, you know, that are secret. Yeah. You know, magicians, that's their commodity, is secrecy. So three-letter agencies, I would say the same. Hey, guys. So before we get back into the conversation, I just want to talk about something that affects all of us. And it's scary. Starting something new, right? It's hard, and it is kind of terrifying because you think about all the work that goes into it.

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Enjoy every moment of your trip, even before you land. Hawaii starts here. Yeah, it's fascinating. I mean, there are definitely a lot of parallels there for sure. It's pretty cool to hear how you see those connections. And speaking of the SIOP and kind of the, you know, I guess deception part of things, something that happened recently from the Wall Street Journal. A lot of people have kind of used those words, deception, sciop from the article

that came out with the Wall Street, from the Wall Street Journal recently, basically saying that everything you've ever seen with UFOs is a lie. It's all been drummed up by the government to distract from different top secret programs. Now, while some of that might be the case, and I'll admit that, maybe that is sometimes the case. They're basically saying, that's it, that's the case. What was your reaction when you heard about that article just a few days ago? I mean, yeah, let me go ahead and ignore every experience or ever. Like, it doesn't matter.

I, you know, it's no surprise. I think anybody's surprised by this is, you know, fooling themselves because this has happened time and time and again. This isn't the first time this has happened. Yeah. You know, this is a repeatable offense by legacy media. They keep doing this. So, you know, I don't waste my time on it. I don't really care.

I don't think that they have a valuable opinion on the matter. I don't think anything they have to say is pertinent to the conversation. it that way. And I don't think they ever have. Yeah. You know, so when we talk about quote unquote disclosure and all this stuff, I check out when it comes to, you know, I'll admit, admittedly, you know, sometimes I'll read an article or a newspaper and get excited or hear about, you know, this hearing that's happening and this type of thing. But then I kind of shake my head and I go, no, hold on a second. There's, there's so much more to this topic that doesn't revolve around, you know, all of the government players and the contractors and the media.

There's so much more in this topic that's filled to the brim with interesting facts and actual evidence, whether anecdotal or physical from the things that have happened to people, you know, all sorts of things that you can take literally. So I, yeah, when I see articles like this, I just, I don't care. I think what it does is, you know, when people focus on things like this or even individuals in the space, you know, we hear these stories of somebody saying one thing and then been proven wrong or, you know, people get so caught up on the minutia of this stuff that you forget what it is we're after. Like, this shouldn't matter, right? Take this as a piece of information, take everything they've written down, absorb it, read it, catalog. it and move on.

Don't hinge your belief system on a newspaper article. And don't hinge your belief system on a whistleblower. Or an experiencer. Or anything. Just take the information in, catalog it, move on. And it tends to become tribal, right? I mean, I think I'm wrong in saying that, especially when it comes to social media. Like the UFO

community, from what I've noticed anyway, seems to be tribal in some cases where it's like, well, I'm on this guy's team, on that guy's team. I believe her. I don't believe him. You know, he's the he's that, she's that. Do you see that same thing sometimes? Yeah, I mean, that's just belief systems in general. So anytime you believe something, you're automatically put into a category. So, you know, whether it's I believe so and so, or I don't believe so and so, or I believe what he said or I believe

what's going on here, I believe this is the answer. Like, those are all groups that you put yourself in. And once you start believing or not believing, you just end up defending your resolve. And I think that can be to your own detriment. I think, you know, this topic so vast and incredible and fantastical, I think deserves pause a little bit. I think we should take a step back and stop, you know, jumping to conclusions and just absorbing information and maybe resign to the idea that in this lifetime, we might not have all the answers. That's okay. We can just keep seeking, you know, this information out and keep accumulating it and hopefully come to some type of sound hypothesis. But we don't have to say, I believe something. We could say, hey, that sounds true

or that rings true for me or I'm, you know, my conviction is low to middle on this. And that's okay. Right. But to say, I believe and putting all your, you know, all your eggs in one basket, I think, I think that's a mistake. Yeah, I think that's fair. On the Wall Street Journal thing real quick, I'm just wondering, do you think that comes out because, and like you said, these things have happened since the retraction from Roswell where they said it was a weather balloon?

I mean, this has been going on for 80 years. But this specific one, do you think that article comes out, and it gets pushed by the way, it gets pushed by the mass media, by the mainstream media as, oh, wow, look at this bombshell article from the Wall Street Journal. So they had, it seemed to me anyway, kind of like their cronies, so to speak, in their mainstream media friends to push that narrative. Do you think that happens, Chris, because some of us are over the target with a lot of these conversations, so they felt like they need to fire back a little bit? Or is it just they did it and this was the time they did it?

Yeah, your guess is good as mine. It sounds true, you know, sounds like I wouldn't put it past them, you know, if that's the, I think, you know, you look at these agencies. we all know what they're capable of and so it's no surprise really. Yeah. You know, I'd be surprised if they leaned into it more rather than leaned against it.

You know, it makes, it actually makes more sense to me that they would do this than like something like the 2017, you know, New York Times article. Right, right. This makes way more sense for legacy media. I'm way less suspicious of legacy media now

than with that 2017 article. Yeah. This fits their mold. more for sure. Yeah, when the government starts leaning into, no, we have, you know, here's like, that's where I'm like, well, hold on a second. Same guys who've been bullshying us for, you know, decades. So I, you know, when I see this, I go, yeah, okay, cool, I guess, but it's not going to deter me.

It might give some, I guess, skeptics or otherwise people who were on the fence. It might give them a little bit of fodder in terms of disbelief, which is fine. And that's cool. But again, if you're hinging your own personal view and ontology on a news article, I think that's a mistake anyway. So if this is the drop that overflowed the bucket for you in terms of being, you know, one way or the other, then I think you probably got bigger problems. Yeah. Yeah.

And like you said, there's so much out there that. can be pointed to or spoken about, one of which is remote viewing. And you mentioned it a couple times. And this is a subject that has fascinated me for a long time. Actually, it's a subject that got me in to euphology to begin with when I was around like 20 or something. I heard about Edgar Casey. And from there, it was just all day and learning about this stuff. So when it comes to the remote viewing portion, guys like Joe McMonigle, you know, when he's remote viewing for the CIA, what is your big takeaway when we talk about remote viewing? Whether it's Joe McMonigle, where he says he saw a civilization on Mars a million years ago, or it's something, you know, where he's

seen people on a Russian submarine in the case of Red October, you know, they made the movie about it. I mean, what can we take away? Because it's so fantastical remote viewing. What can people take away from that who just aren't used to the idea of something like that being true? Yeah. There's a lot of, there's a lot of data. So, you know, anybody who, doesn't want to acknowledge the data. I mean, that's totally up to you, but you can't say something doesn't exist if there's data on it existing.

So from Dr. Edwin May, the chief research physicist at SRI during Stargate, he's got 30 years of data on six people. And it points to this being a thing. There's so much other data that exists. this on remote viewing. That's available publicly. That's not hidden at all. Yeah. And you don't have to go to a CIA website. Like it's, there are books published on this stuff that shows there is a significant, um, phenomenon here. Like there's, there's something. There's an effect happening. And it stands way above the targeted P value system that is required for this stuff to be acknowledged. And so it's constant goalpost shifting when it comes to, you know, parapsychology. We're aware of that. but I've you know I again I don't hinge any of my belief systems on things that I've read or or the stories that I've been told I try it for myself and that's something I did for a year

and I was I showed myself that it was possible you know I'm not by any means a gifted individual when it comes to this stuff but it was enough to tell me that there is something here that's interesting What kind of experience did you have? I mean, I documented the entire thing. It's, you know, we had a target in an envelope that I was blind to, and I would describe the target that was in the envelope, the image, and then draw. And many times, it would be very close. And, you know, I could have drawn a bumblebee or a bicycle, you know,

and it happened to be the exact same thing. So not only, you know, it could have been a place, person or or, I don't know, a mountain or a house or a, you know, a blue lollipop or anything. And so when you get hits that are like, oh, this is a volcano and this is a volcano. And then I'm describing like sulfurous smells and like heat and like all these things. Then it's a volcano and I've drawn that. It's kind of, you're kind of like, whoa, that's incredible. And you don't necessarily believe it at first.

And then you do it over and over and over. and you keep getting similar sort of results. Now, again, I'm not by any means like a really gifted individual when it comes to stuff, but I've seen other people do really well on it as well. And then, as you mentioned, Joe McMonigle, you know, he was remote viewer number zero one. Early on, he was tasked with a few targets to determine his talent in remote viewing. And he had five first place targets.

out of six, which is the highest score anyone's ever scored for one of these tests. And basically a first place, so a fourth place, there's four places. A fourth place is if the target is a bumblebee and I draw a paper plate, right? Completely off. A third place is if it's a bumblebee and I draw something that's yellow and black and maybe fuzzy. Okay. But it's just a ball.

And I say, I don't really say it's a life form. So that's a third place. Second place is if I drew like a wasp. Okay. And the first place is if I drew a bumblebee. Yeah. And so he had five first place matches out of six. And those are test conditions.

In fact, Dr. Edwin May was tasked to put together a scientific oversight committee that had to come up with the tests to make sure that they were lab, you know, approved. And so he had like a dozen of the who's who in psychology and science and physics of the United States put together these tests, including Nobel Prize winners. You know, Dr. Schwartz, who discovered, I think it was like the particle bean. Like, and, and, I mean, so many, so many other people, including parapsychologists, but also just regular psychologists. And so there was an incredible amount of rigor when it came to these tests. And they did this for 20 years. And every single year, Joe McMonigle had to go in front of an oversight committee himself at like a congressional

oversight to approve the budget. So he had to perform in a skiff. He had to do remote viewings for these individuals from Congress so that they approved the budget for the next year. And time and time again, he was able to do that. Right. So you don't approve something. if it doesn't work. And, you know, on top of that, they had 505 missions over 20 years. So, 505 individual missions. 17 out of the 19 intelligence agencies were involved in these missions, including I think the Joint Task Force, the Joint Task Force, 142 times they came back to use remote viewings.

And a lot of that was to intercept, like, drugboats on the coast. And so, you know, you look at these numbers. The data's out there. Yeah. They obviously still do this. This is, you know, they did it before Stargate. They had Sunstreaks, Center Lane, you know, a whole bunch of other ones. And they closed those down when people found out about them and opened up a new one.

And that's exactly what they did in 1996. And they still, you know, said, oh, it didn't work. It didn't work. And then 2017, when they had classified a whole bunch of stuff, you can see that a lot of them did work. And they did use a lot of that stuff to find hostages to, as Joe McMonicle have found was a general Dozier in Italy who was kidnapped. And they used him and other intel, but they did use the remote viewing intel. And it was valuable.

And it did help them find, you know, this general who was behind enemy lines. Like, I mean, there's so many cases. But again, if you're inclined to not wanting to look into it, that that's on you. But the information is out there. I've studied it intensely. And, you know, to me, It's just a matter of fact now that there is something there. Now, what it is, how it works, what's the mechanism behind it, how accurate is it?

Like all of these things are questions that are still up in the air and that a lot of these people are still studying. But for me, I know it to be real. I don't have to believe in it anymore or not believe in it. I've seen it. I've tried it. And there is data out there to back up what I'm saying. So, you know, and speak of the Wall Street Journal, they also wrote an article about how remote viewing wasn't real, you know, and you're like, well, then your government's

spending money on just a bunch of stuff that isn't real constantly? Constantly. That's kind of wild, too. That's a big story as well. Yeah, that's fair enough. And I was going to ask you, actually, you touched on it. How do you think this happens? And again, that's a far-reaching answer and probably something that can be studied for the

next 20 years on its own. But just your best guess and how you can encapsulate that. How does something as fantastical as remote viewing? How is it real? How are people able to tap into whatever they're tapping into to be able to see something past, present or future, someone has held hostage somewhere across the world and they're able to see it and describe it? How is that possible for people who just can't wrap their heads around it? Yeah. They're still trying to figure that out. There's a lot of theories out there. I know that Hal Putoff has theories about microtubules in the brain that sort of interface with this quantum field that's all sort of omnipresent and that these microtubules will sort of. of like collect information from a quantum realm, which isn't beholden to time and space. It gets extremely complicated and way over my pay grade, to be honest.

But one thing that Dr. May has found as well in when they tested out people for the army, the army was like, we need to recruit people. We need to come up with a system on how to train them in remote viewing. Ingo Swan came up with CRV, controlled remote viewing. and out of 600 people, 1% of them showed a significant talent, right? So six people. And that doesn't seem like much, but that's a pretty big number when you think about it on a larger scale. And these people were people from all walks of life.

You had mental level geniuses. You had alumni, Stanford alumni. You had intelligence people and you had regular folk army guys. And all these people were tested. One percent of them showed significant talent. turns out after having tested all of them and after having done all of these things, turns out, by coincidence, I guess, every single person that showed significant talent was also, also had synesthesia.

And so that's something they didn't expect. They were like, oh, so seeing sounds and hearing colors and all these, you know, sort of variations of your senses, apparently. is an indicator at least or maybe a facilitator of this event. And so that's something new that they were looking into. And they even did tests in submarines

to see if it was a frequency because they were like, oh, maybe it's like a radio signal, which is what I thought at first. And they're like, no, we did it in a submarine where absolutely no frequency can reach and significant results were still, you know, shown. Even better results because they were so isolated.

Right, yeah. And so now this is where it gets into this quantum space. They also did tests with apparently entropy in some level makes this more possible. So they would go to, so they had the target go to a site. And, you know, the remote viewer and the tasker, the task was to remote view where the target was, he was somewhere in the world. They would get more accurate descriptions of where the target was when they pour. liquid nitrogen at the site. Wow.

So when the site had more entropy, almost as if the mind or consciousness or whatever that is is able to recognize change, much like we recognize change, you know, like if you were to think of the Gansfeld effect and you put these ping pong balls on your eyes and you listen to this frequency after a while, you know, you won't see the red light anymore,

you won't hear the sounds anymore because our minds are kind of hardwired to detect change. Yeah. And so almost as if like a moth to a flame, we detect the most entropic event when it comes to remote viewing. And that also happened quite a bit with remote viewers, where they were given one target. And they were like, no, no, hold on. There's something else here.

And something bigger, more eventful was actually drawing them towards it. So, yeah. A lot of really interesting studies that have come out on remote viewing. What it is exactly? I couldn't tell you. But I, you know, I'm fascinated by all, all the work. that is being done in that, you know, space. Yeah, you and me both. That's awesome.

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Relax with Free Starlink, the fastest Wi-Fi in the sky, thanks to T-Mobile. Go ahead, stream your movie. Book the couple's massage. Make a dinner reservation while we bring you to our island home. Hawaii starts here. Do you think near-death experience has something to do with that as far as heightening the senses, heightening the awareness or the ability for? The reason I ask that is because Joe McMonigal, who we're talking about is maybe the best remote viewer of all time or most consequential anyway. He had a near-death experience. And he describes, really that ability kind of starting after that near-death experience. So do you think that's circumstantial? Is it unique to the viewer

or is there something deeper there? Yeah, he would say it's unrelated. I asked Joe about that he doesn't believe that you relate. Yeah, he did speak to him, that's right. Because a lot of people make that connection of, you know, having some type of NDE

unlocking or sort of maybe perhaps thinning the veil between this world and the next. And it seems, well, he says it's unrelated. He says that it's more likely caused by instinct. And so when he was younger, even in his book he talks about this, he would have to defend his sister, you know, from like an abusive, I think father. And so that triggered a survival mechanism in him.

And so he really, really believes in this aspect of remote viewing being linked to survival. If you go back to, you know, way back in the day when people had shamans and this type of stuff, like the most, the person with the most reverence in a village wouldn't be the strongest person. It would be the most psychic, right? And people would bring them gifts because they would, you know, give them information that was valuable to them. And whether that's knowing where the water was through using witching rods or where not to hunt because of predators. And so, yeah, he he chalked it up to instinct. Like this is in everyone. And so when you when you hear about NDEs and how they sort of unlock or thin this veil,

you can also make the case for any traumatic event. So not just near death, but almost, yeah, almost like it shocks you. into needing it to survive. And so you hear about these type of precognitive events in situations where people's life is in jeopardy, but not necessarily experiencing death. So if they're being attacked, you know, I spoke to George St. Pierre, who's an MMA fighter,

he also says that during these fights, it's almost as if he knows exactly what his opponent's going to do sometimes. And so under this like stress inoculation and this survival mechanism and this adrenaline, he's able to perceive things before they happen. Now, his question is, is it deduction or is it precognitive? You know, and it's it's so close that it's really hard to tell, but that's, that seems to be what Joe is also alluding to. Yeah, that's really interesting. And it would help explain some of GSP's wins. I mean, it was an incredible fighter.

Yeah. And maybe even someone like Muhammad Ali. I mean, when you watch those clips of him just dodging punches left of right? Yeah, they're in the zone. It's like they're aware of something that no one else is. Yeah, that's really interesting. On that note of people you've had on your show, is there someone in the back of your head?

Because we all have somebody that we're like, man, I really wish I can talk to that person. And maybe it's more than one. And you've spoken to a lot of people, but is there still someone in the back of your head that you're like, really want to talk to this guy, really want to talk to this girl? Because I just have so many questions for them.

And it just hasn't happened yet. Yeah, I mean, I would love to talk to Travis Walton. I think, you know, again, mentioning at the top of the episode, that was the movie that got me into this stuff, you know. So I think it would be a full circle moment, definitely to speak with Travis. Linda Bolton Howe, I think is another one. I think she is incredible. I think she's done so much. She's just such a fearless fighter in this, you know, and say what you will about her opinions or what she does.

I mean, you just can't deny the fact that she commands just respect. She's been fighting this stuff, you know, for a very, very long time. And, you know, put herself in really shady positions a lot of times and where her life was in danger. And so, yeah, I think Linda would probably have the best stories. And I'm a sucker for a good story. So I think, yeah, Linda would be, would definitely be on the bucket. No, that's great. If someone came up to you and they didn't know who you were, whatever, you're at a bar,

you're at a restaurant, whatever, and it's just kind of small talking. Like, oh, what do you do? You started telling me about the magic side, the UFO podcast side, things like that. And they said to you, you know, that UFO stuff, I don't really know what to make of it. You know, I hear about it. I see some of the videos, but I think it's kind of silly. What would you point them to person, story, something that you would consider a good piece of evidence, that you would say, all right, that's fair,

but just do me a favor and check out this person's story or this particular piece and see if it changes your mind. Yeah, I think moment of contact for me. Okay. From James Fox. Yeah. I think that's one of those cases that's just like, dude, there's so much human testimony.

Also, you know, another one is in Rua, Zimbabwe. you know, the kids at Ariel School. Yep. They're children. You know, now that one might be a little more difficult for people to get behind because not knowing the situation, it might feel like some of these kids are being coerced, which they weren't. But not knowing the situation, I do understand how people can be like,

oh, they're just kids, they don't know what they're talking about, which is why, you know, it brings me to a moment of contact because I think, I think that one for me was just like so, so many people, who don't know each other are all talking about the same thing. They weren't in one place. This was all around Virginia. And so, you know, that and, you know, I hear a little birdie tells me that James has a lot of news on, on a follow-up to that. So that's, that'll be really interesting as well.

Was that little birdie names, say it rhymes with Haynes box? That's correct. Yeah. I have the same. I had a feeling. No, that's awesome. because of both of those stories I'm with you are just two of the most...

What about you? What's yours? I mean, those are great. Ariel School definitely is absolutely one of them. I think one of the ones that I come back to a lot is really kind of like the Joe McModgall stuff. I hate to bring up something that we were just talking about, but that's somebody that is just so fascinating to me. That's actually somebody that I would like to talk to that I haven't spoken to.

Because you talk about a guy that was an asset to the federal government and to the agencies and to the intelligence agencies and they used them for a reason, not because they didn't believe it because what he was doing actually worked. And if what he's saying about bases inside mountains

and seeing different beings inside mountains in Africa that's a pat price as well. Right, yes. So I mean, we put those together and then of course, you know, saying that there was a civilization on Mars a million years ago, it's like, well, could he be right about one

but not the other, I guess? but it's got to give you a pause. It makes you think. For sure. Maybe something there's definitely a good point. But even Joe doesn't like unverifiable targets. Well, he says he doesn't like them, but he also talks about him a lot. But, you know, he'll be the first to say like, yeah, I don't know.

I won't hang my hat on it because I can't verify it, you know. And that's one thing that he always found frustrating. But the things that, like you said, the things that he could verify turned out to be true. So it makes you wonder. It sure does. That's for sure. do you think there's kind of like on a different note here chris i'm starting to hear more stories about poltergeist activity when it comes to the alien phenomenon like actual um close encounter

experiencers like you know a whitley streber type of person where they're experiencing these entities one-on-one i'm hearing more about things floating in the air i'm hearing more about knocks on the door i'm hearing more about scratches these are normally things that you're you would hear about, I mean, I hate to say, but these normal things you hear more about with, like, demonic activity. Is there something connected here, do you think? Or is the two different things that people are mistaking for the alien encounter experience? Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, why can it be one and the same?

Or maybe it's two different things? Like, both answers, I think, are valid. I think all answers are valid until, you know, until they're taken off the table. Jacques Valet has loads and loads of thoughts on how these old stories of, you know, the fairy people and all sorts of things also tie into this. And then you look at Diana Posulka, you know, a lot of work on how ancient, you know, how people used to look up to angels in the way that we look up to UFOs and the connections there. So there's definitely some overlap. And you hear about stories from Skinwalker Ranch about, you know, this hitchhiker. effect and these poltergeist things happening after people leave the ranch. So yeah, why couldn't they be connected for sure? And, you know, if you're thinking,

there's a lot of people out there that are like, are you crazy? It's just angels and devils. And that's the whole thing, right? And okay, where do the devils come from? Right. And they'll say, well, hell. Okay, where is hell? It's not in the ground. Right. Right. So where is it? It's another dimension. Yeah. Okay. So what are we talking about here? We're talking about Interdimensional beings. Yeah. Right? That are using portals, right, I guess, to interface with our reality in some way.

So, you know, I think we're talking about the same thing. I think the verbiage might be different. And, you know, one says devil or demon, and another says alien or interdimensional being or ultra-terrestrial or what have you, or intratrestrial or tempestrial or whatever you want to call it. You know, I just call it aliens. Yeah. It's a lot easier.

Yeah. But yeah, I think why can't they be the same? Now, is there something to the idea of demons and angels? I would at first be really reluctant to think that. But, you know, the more that I look into it, the more you hear about stories of Jacques Vallet, you know, kind of subtly hinting that that is the phenomenon. And then you read books like Strange Angel, you know, the story of Jack Parsons, who, you know, ended up building rockets, but also sort of trying to summon demons at the same time.

And then you hear about the rituals that are still going on at NASA. And so, you know, it makes you wonder, is there something there? Is it superstition? Is it all the same thing? Is it different things? I don't know. Man, it's a weird question, though, right? Because when you start to think about even going back to biblical history, right, a lot of people talk about Ezekiel and, you know, the wheel or the chariot of fire,

all these different things. And you kind of start to make that leap a little bit to think, well, could it have been some of the same stuff, but they just didn't know how to talk about it? You know, and you start to talk about the giants during the time of Noah. And there's just so much that it's like, how do you add it all up? And that's why I personally always feel like the spirituality question has to kind of play a part in this, because I feel like it's almost like one of those cogs that there's, it's one of the missing pieces that might be able to connect some of this stuff.

Do you think I'm off on that? I don't know. You know, it could be. It definitely seems like, you know, intention drives a lot of this phenomenon, whether it's visitations or, you know, orbs or whatever it is. It seems like there is some type of interface there.

Call it spirituality. You know, call it whatever you like, quantum physics. Who knows? It's hard to categorize something that's so ephemeral. and nebulous. Like it's just really hard to pin it down to one thing when in reality, it's probably a lot of things. It's probably everything.

That's, you know, the more that I look into this, you're like, if you can, if we're talking about, it's either just us or it's everything, like in my head. It's not us and one other thing. You know, if it's one other thing, then it's another thing and another thing and it just keeps going. Like if something in the billions of things. of years that this planet's been around came here other than us or made us or whatever that is some other intelligence then i would have to assume that there is probably another one and another one and it goes on i i'm not going to i'm not going to think it's either us or us and them and that's it

like i think there's probably more to it than that uh and and then everything in between you know us and them whatever that is so you know um yeah i don't know is spirituality the key it seems like intent is the key to some of this phenomenon, but I don't know to what extent. I really don't know. And I'd be reluctant to say,

you know, if someone says, oh, it's all this or whatever, but then there's the afterlife. And then, but I'm like, maybe the afterlife is controlled by them too. Yeah. That's a dark thought. That's a weird thought.

Yeah. that, you know, we go to the light and it's just part of their plan and they're also controlling that. Like, you know, so I'm reluctant to believe anything. And I just, yeah, I don't know. We're going to find out eventually. And this is. I won't be able to report back, maybe. I'll try.

No, come on, but listen, I want to promise right now that the spirit of Chris Ramsey comes on UAP to answer some damn questions here. Houdini, Houdini made that promise to is why. Oh, is that right? Yeah, he was debunking a lot of mediums before his death and told his wife that, you know, she should continue to do that and get rid of these charlatans and that he would come back through these mediums and give her a specific word or sentence. And until she hears that word or sentence, they're frauds. And she never heard it.

Wow. That's interesting. Matt Houdini is a fascinating character in himself. I'm sure you could probably go all day on him. He's always kind of really intrigued me over the years. Speaking on some of that, though, when it comes to maybe some of these lost arts, if you will, and we hear about, you know, recently, like the lost chambers

of the Pyramids of Giza that were supposedly found by the Italian scientists and that group of scientists there. And we look back, you know, we hear stories about Atlantis. Like you her case, you spoke about Atlantis. Do you think there was some type of ancient technology that's been lost to us? And for whatever reason, it was the ancient Egyptians or the Atlanteans or whoever it was, had this all cracked or maybe even the Mayans, the Aztecs, somebody had all this stuff, the American Indians, had this stuff figured out and it's just been lost along the way?

Yeah, it definitely seems that way. I think if you look deep enough, you realize that it is hard to believe that there are things that we can't explain. And, you know, when you look at the precision, you know, these bowls or these vases that they found that are, that we couldn't even replicate with modern machinery, you know, let alone, forget the pyramids, dude. Forget the, forget the giant blocks. I believe that people can move giant blocks.

You get enough people together, you know, and if they crack enough whips, like, that's going to happen. That's just the way it is. Right. But when it comes to like this precision stuff, that's where it gets. it's weird. You know, get a thousand people. They can move, they can move a giant stone. I believe in the power of human beings and, and the power of working together and creating something. But when it comes to like something small, like a borehole or like these, these perfect cuts and these

perfect, like that's where you're like, yeah, I don't, I don't know how they would have had according to what they were supposed to have, according to modern archaeologists, you know, they wouldn't have had that capacity, that ability to make those things. So where does that leave you? It leads you now, you got to be careful with this because as a magician, if I show you a trick, I am forcing you to unwillingly suspend your disbelief through a method that I create. So I'm going to make something happen and I'm going to make it so fooling that you resign your position and you go, I don't know. It's magic. It's impossible. You don't know what to say. That's my job.

So when I give people, when I show people a magic trick and then ask them to explain it, if they can't explain it, the explanations they'll start coming up with start to get more and more ludicrous. Right. Right. Okay. And this is that connection, right? This is that connection we were talking about earlier. Yeah, and all the while I know how simple it actually is. And so, you know, they'll be like, no, you had a system of magnets. And I'm like, you don't even know how magnets work. That's not how they work. You can't just levitate random objects with magnets or static electricity, you know, but people go there. And so, you know, sometimes this is what we see when we look at these ancient structures.

People, because they don't have the answer, they jump to aliens. And I'm not saying it isn't aliens or advanced tech. but I'm saying there is a gap there that we don't understand. And for all we know, the answer, once we figure it out, might turn out to be simpler than we thought. I think that's a possibility. Yeah. But it has alluded us to this day,

and I think that is worth questioning it. But yeah, I wouldn't jump straight to any of that stuff, but I wouldn't rule it out either. Yeah, it's I mean like you said We still ask the questions So I've only a few minutes left here Chris and I wish we've man

I would love to talk to you again in the future Because this is a lot of fun Of course But going back to contact in the desert You talk about doing those tricks And making us unworthfully suspend Belief when it comes to the magic tricks And gosh darn you

You made it happen for me Because I'm sitting there And I actually I painted this picture on a previous episode of you AP, but I love to do it with you here as well because it's going to lead to a question. I'm sitting there at the table, which was a pretty cool moment, by the way, with you and James Fox and Thomas Jane and Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp and Matt from the Good Trouble Show. Matt Ford.

Matt Ford, thank you. Drew Blank there for some reason. Who is great, by the way. He and I ended up speaking for like two hours afterwards. He's a great guy. You would think I wouldn't draw a blank there, but nevertheless. So we're all sitting there at this table and you pull out your cards and just start doing magic tricks

and you do this thing where you had all of us pick the cards. You put down four kings, right, of each suit, four corners and we're all picking the card and you're saying, okay, I'm taking this bunch of five to seven cards, whatever it was, where do you want me to put it, black or red? And it's up to us and you're having us choose and then somehow some way

it all ends up being in the same color. They're all grouped together, all the hearts, all the die. How? I know you're not going to answer to me, but still I'm going to ask how. How does something like that happen? It's crazy to me. Yeah, that's the beauty about, you know, magic, is that there are many things at play during an effect like that, you know,

whether it's sleight of hand, whether it's showmanship, whether it's, you know, verbal misdirection. I mean, there's literally so many. many different psychological techniques that are used within one trick and tactile techniques. You know, so it's it's a mashup of so many things, as is most every trick. People often assume, oh, you just did this. And if they only knew how, you know, how much effort goes into a trick, and from all the directions that we hit it, whether it's in the things we say or where we're looking or all this, there's a lot of work that goes into this. Yeah, magic isn't as

simple as you might think, but it's also incredibly simple when you break it down, but when you add all the layering of different techniques and different principles and all these things together, it creates a nice perception of an event, which you perceive happened a certain way. You know, magicians are masters at engineering memory more than anything. And so even you recounting what happened wasn't what happened. I got it wrong, didn't I? Well, I mean, everybody would. That's the whole point of, that's the whole point of magic. You know, we, I can, I can give you, I can tell you to look here and this is very important and then say, never mind this over here. And then we keep going over here and your brain is going to take those two important things and put them together and it's going to discount the little nevermind because it doesn't have room to store all this useless information.

Well, that never mind might be the secret. And this very important stuff was completely useless and nonsensical. Right. So you're going to tell a story and you're going to omit that little never mind. Right. Because I told you to never mind it and it doesn't matter. Right. And so your story is not at all what happened.

But I was able to engineer that experience. And memory is the only thing that really drives a reality. You know, so if you can manipulate memory and it's easier than you think, it happens to experiencers all the time as well. You know, we talk about, I find there's a significant. comparison to be made between someone who witnessed a magic trick and someone who's seen a UFO. They're both impossible. They both defy explanation. And immediately after, the memory is different, is altered for a few reasons. One, because, well, maybe the magician altered your memory on purpose.

But other than that, you're trying to convey emotion. You're trying to make the other person feel as if they were there. And so you're not giving them just straight facts because that's boring. You're rounding off the edges a little. little bit. Right. And you're doing that for another reason as well. You don't want to appear like you're easily fooled. So you're going to make the situation a little bit more impossible as if you double-checked everything, even though you didn't. And even though you know that even if you did, it would have been fine, but you add those little pieces of information and to make it more convincing because, again, you want them to feel like they were there. Yeah. You know, so it's a human flaw, and it's not of malicious intent, but it's something that we all do. And, you know, magicians just

happen to take advantage of this during magic performances. That's great stuff, man. You mentioned earlier about the miracles. That's every magician has a miracle. Now, you told this story, and I don't mind hearing it again, because I want you to tell everyone else who hasn't heard this story. You were talking about your miracle. Actually, Dan Cleary, who was also at that table, asked you, okay, Chris, what's your

miracle as a magician? And it had to do with, I believe, a cell phone and a bartender? Yep. And there's many. I mean, I have a lot of them. Okay. And some of them I performed there. You know, I did some of that there.

And the people involved know what I'm talking about, you know, because they, they witnessed it. That's funny. It's, it's, uh, when you leave things up to chance and odds, in a certain, it seems like in a certain state, whether that's this like misplaced confidence. And then, but also high, you know, no, no, no backup. So high stress. But also this like flow state. It's like this weird balance of all this. These things tend to happen.

So I was in Bermuda with some friends. This is a few years ago. And again, this is one example. And I could give you a dozen examples. And every magician, by the way, if you ever made a magician, ask them to tell you about a miracle. They will gladly regale you with like the most impossible thing.

They're going to chalk it up the chance. I think there's something more at play. But I was with some magician friends and we were shuffling cards and got the attention of this group of people. They came over and said, Oh, you're magicians. Can you show something? I said to this girl, I said, yeah, sure.

Hand me your phone. I'm going to try to, you know, open your pass code. And she goes, oh, my God, okay. So she gives me your phone. I put it, I place it on the, on the bar. At this point, I know her pass code. I won't tell you how I know her pass code. I was just about to ask.

As a magician, I know her pass code through some type of method. But the magician in me doesn't just open her phone. I want to, I want to play. I want to play it as a magician, right? magician is a you're you're an actor playing the part of a magician so many shit yeah yeah and i want to make this experience special so i'll say i'll say cool so what we're going to do and you know i'll jazz this sometimes i don't even know where i'm going with us when i start with these things but i'll go i'm not going to open your phone he is and i point to the bartender again misplaced

confidence no business being this confident about this i know the back maybe the back of my mind that if he doesn't open it i know the pass code i'll just just like, I'll, you know, I'll tell it to him in his ear. He can open it. Like, so I don't know. I'll figure it out. But I'm really confident that he's going to open the phone. And so I point to him. Now, in my head, I'm like, I'm going to try and direct him, you know, towards the number somehow with some intention. I don't know. I'll figure it out. So I said, go ahead and put four numbers in. It's a four digit pass code. I said put four random numbers in. He does this tense situation. Everybody's like, oh, my God.

Phone doesn't open. Release of 10. And I'm like, of course not. That would be silly if that worked. You know, that would be a miracle. Right. And then I said, you know what? I think it's more of a personal number. Now, at this point, I know the number.

It looks like a birthday. So I assume it's a personal number. You know, when people choose numbers that isn't a pattern, it's usually personal, right? So it's just kind of a given. And so I said, I think it's a personal number. And I said to the guy, I said, go ahead and I think I said put in your, your passcode or your birthday or it was one of the other. Might have been your passcode. I said, go ahead. No, it was your birthday. I said, go ahead and put in your birthday. And he puts in his birthday and the phone opens.

And this isn't his phone. It was. No. And he was just to surprise everybody else. He was surprised. I was more surprised than anybody. Amazing. Because they're like, this is a magician. This is supposed to happen. You know, at some level. I'm like screaming on the inside. You're like acting cool. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, not only did they have the same birthday. That was also his. his passcode on his phone. He had the same passcode, same birthday, same day to birth, exactly as the other person, kind of worked out that way. But these things happen over and over and over. And yeah, I mean, it's just one miracle after another when you put yourself in those positions. And magicians know what I'm talking about. Again, to bring this back to the beginning,

it's the reason Russell Targ got into the Seifield because he saw this happen over and over again. And so I'm glad, I was glad to find out that I wasn't alone. in observing this. That's insane, man. And one thing I wanted to ask you when you told that story I contact in the desert was, I can understand, you know, maybe, well, actually, I don't understand, but maybe it's something as far as some different ticks or movement towards numbers on the phone that would clue you off to what her code was.

But how the hell would you know that the bartender has the same birth date? How does that, I guess that's the miracle, right? Yeah, I didn't. I had no idea. I pointed to a person. I could have pointed to anyone. And that was, you know, that was the cool part about it. It was just like this weird synchronicity.

And, you know, maybe it is a numbers game. And the more tricks you perform, the more miracles happen. But they do seem to happen disproportionately in a disproportionate amount of times, like compared to not happening. So when you take big risks in magic, you tend to get rewarded, especially in certain conditions. And it just seems, it seems that just seems to be the way it is. Yeah. That's wild. All right.

last question, and I want you to be honest with me on this. Not that you have been dishonest at any point, but especially on this one. Okay. I mentioned everybody, we were all sitting together at that table of contact in the desert, I mentioned all the names. The documentarian in me wanted to say, hey, guys, this is a pretty cool moment with, like, everybody at this table. I would love to take a picture and show it everybody, hey, this is pretty cool.

Like, we're all kind of sitting here hanging out. but I didn't do it because I felt like I would have been weird and it would have been that guy. If I had done it, would everybody have looked at me as weird and this guy, he's that guy? No. Oh, see, no, I regret it. I think it's totally cool, totally fine, dude. Well, I mean, maybe somebody, I don't know. I wouldn't have found it weird.

I think it's fine. Whatever. I thought was cool. I, you know, I would have liked to see that picture. And now it's lost to history. I think Dan Cleary took a photo maybe a partial. It was a partial. I mean, yeah, first, dude, why not?

You live once, man. Like, don't worry about other people. Don't worry about what they're thinking. If they have a problem with it, they got a problem with their own stuff. It's not your problem. All right. Well, now next year, okay? We'll all have to get back together next year and then I'll do it then.

And I'm going to be like, oh, this guy again. Get this guy out of here. Yeah, what was you do it? Oh, he's one of those. Come on, weirdo. You got to check out Chris Ramsey. If you haven't already, check out Chris Ramsey YouTube channel. I don't have to say, go ahead.

Tell everybody where they can find you if they haven't found you. Yeah, Area 52 on YouTube. Appreciate it, Stephen. This has been a really great conversation. I enjoyed meeting you. And, yeah, good luck with the podcast, man. I'm a new fan. So, you know, I'd like to see you keep going, keep growing, and keep trying to find those answers, dude.

Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks for doing this. Honestly, just a great time to go back and forth about all this. I really enjoy it. So many different aspects that we can talk about. So, yeah, hopefully we can do it again in the future. And thanks again for coming on. Absolutely.

Chris Ramsey, thanks for coming on here to UAP. Really fun interview and very grateful again to Chris Ramsey for making the time to do that. You know, that was one of the cool things about contact in the desert. And you heard us talk about that and, you know, that behind the scenes kind of view at the table. I do kick myself for not taking the picture. Like the next morning after that, it was kind of refurb. reflecting on the day of contact in the desert. I was in the hotel room getting ready to leave and come back home to fly back to South Florida

from Southern California in Palm Springs and just having those little moments of reflection like, you know, met that person, got to speak to this person, had these interactions with you, you know, people like you who listened to the show and just, you know, think about all those things. And one of the things that came to mind on that Sunday morning was, dang it, man, I really should have just stepped up to the plate and said, guys, this is pretty cool. Like, let's all take a picture together. and I didn't do that and I regret it. So I thought I would kind of ask Chris his opinion there on,

should I have done that? Like would that have been weird? So it was fun to kind of get his opinion on that. And like I said, maybe next year. If I present you with that opportunity again, you can look forward to a picture like that on social media to come out next year at Contact in the Desert, hopefully get another opportunity.

But super cool guy. Really, he's one of the guys that was a highlight for me to meet and get to know on a human-to-human level. and for him to make the time to come on here to UAPU is really cool. So check out Chris Ramsey. If you haven't already, chances are you have, he has almost 8 million subscribers on YouTube. So all the power to him on his continued success in the future and what he's doing.

And I look forward to talk to him again. Hopefully he becomes a friend of the show. Really fun to talk to. And who knows, maybe I'll be with him one day on his show. I'd love to do that as well. I'd do them, look, anytime you want to invite me on, I'm happy to do that if that makes sense for you in the future. So really cool.

I'm glad we got to develop that relationship here at contact in the desert and then to bring them on to UAP. So thank you again to Chris for doing that. And like I said, hopefully we can do it again in the future because Lord knows is always going to be more to talk about. That's for sure. Especially with that Wall Street Journal article. And you heard us kind of cover that in depth at the beginning. And that's one thing I really haven't been able to cover just because of the interviews and some of the side projects I'm working on, which I want to give you an update on that real quick before we go because I've kind of been

teasing that a little bit. And I want to give you just a little bit of a, maybe a glimpse. I hate to say a glimpse, but just an idea of what to expect. But before I get to that, I just want to kind of touch on the Wall Street Journal article because this kind of set the UFO world ablaze over the weekend. And, you know, it's just to kind of build off of what I was saying to Chris,

which was my personal opinion that I'll kind of espouse on here, that I believe that article that comes out, out basically saying that everything that we've seen from UFOs over the past 80 years with the government and the intelligence agencies has been one giant sci-up to make us believe in UFOs and look over here, talk about magic, right? Deception. Look over here while we work on, it's aliens, it's this, it's that on the left-hand side and look at the shiny object while we work on our secret government projects and technologies. So, yes, it's aliens. Go ahead and believe that while we work on our secret projects. And that's basically what the Wall Street Journal article asserted, that that's been, it's been one giant sciop over the years.

And to make that gross generalization, to me, my personal opinion is, well, is gross. It's irresponsible. And it serves a purpose at the same time, though, because I believe those journalists, if you want to call them that, from the Wall Street Journal, they were there to serve a purpose. Like, unfortunately, unfortunately, some journalists are there really, are very compromised these days. on both sides of the aisle. That's not a political statement. You know, you know, I don't get political here on UAP. So on both sides of the aisle, you know,

sometimes journalists are there to serve a purpose, to feed into a narrative or to push a narrative one way or the other. And I think that's, again, my opinion, that's what happened here with this article on these journalists in air quotes who worked on it. I just think they're there to serve a purpose, push a narrative, push it away because I believe we are over the target.

I believe the work that, you know, I'm able to do here on UAP. I hope it has an effect. I really hope so. I work to have so that it does have an effect. You know, the work that Chris Ramsey does and so many other investigators and podcasters and YouTubers like Patrick, Unvetted, for example, you know, he does a lot of work on this. And I think the questions that we ask and the interviews that we hold and the people that we talk to, the experiencers and the reporters.

We're over the target. I believe that. I mentioned that to Chris in my line of questioning. And I believe me, again, just the opinion, that is my opinion, that we are over the target. You know, for everybody who's on social media, posting videos, asking the questions, that they don't like that. I believe that Congress is over the target. I believe that the Transparency Task Force, those who are part of it, are over the target when it comes to this conversation. That they don't like David Grush working with Congressman Burleson. that they don't like Annapolina Luna asking questions and holding hearings and that they brought in, you know, Eric Davis and Lou Elizando and Avi Loeb to have a roundtable discussion.

Like, they don't like those things, the people that are holding these secrets in the intelligence community. So in order to fight back, their way to fight back is to bring on a couple of journalists from the Wall Street Journal to say, go ahead and push this narrative so we can fight back against those who are trying to bring about the truth. or as Steve Bassett calls it the truth embargo, right? He's mentioned that a couple of times here on the show. So that's my take on it. That's my take on the article. I know Bob Salas came out strong against it as well recently. He wrote his own op-ed that good for him because that's been going viral on Twitter.

So I'm glad to see him do that. That's kind of how I see that in recent, you know, in recent times since that article came out. Because, you know, and Chris alluded to it as well, you can't discount thousands. even over time, maybe millions, I don't know, or at least hundreds of thousands of experiencers over the past 80 years who have said they've seen something or experienced something or have had abduction scenarios or injuries that they can't explain because of abduction scenarios, all these different things that they just try to lump together in one article in the Wall Street Journal to explain it all the way.

Now, that said, there could possibly be, I'm not discounting it 100%, because I don't believe in generalizations. I think maybe there is some truth to that. Maybe they built off of a 10% truth where government agencies or contractors do use the UFO topic as a distraction to make people

shy away from their own clandestine operations and black programs. Yes, I believe that to be true. Where they you know, skunk orcs has said in the past for example, look over here, that's aliens, that's UFO, but it's actually our technology. But we want you to believe

its UFO so we can get away with this secret technology. I'm not saying that hasn't happened. In fact, I can probably almost guarantee it has happened in the past. But to say that's been 100% of the UFO program and the UFO history and lore, no. I'm sorry. I just

don't buy it. There's too much. There's too much out there that is unexplained that people have really gone through that cannot be characterized by one article in the Wall Street Journal. So that is my ultimate take on that scenario.

That said, I said I do want to give a little glimpse of what is coming in the future. If you've heard me allude to it a little bit here on the show, mostly on social media, especially on Twitter, I'm working on a side project, something that stems off of UAP, which is also, by the way, why I've been very interview heavy here on the show. I do want to make more like original contents, not that this isn't original content, but when it comes to, you know, the old school UAP where I do some, Here is the details. You make up your own mind type thing.

Tell the story. That stuff I do want to do more in the future. But I've been very consumed, very, very consumed with working on a side project, a branch off of UAP. And I can tell you that that is halfway done. I don't want to go into too many specifics yet. Just because I don't want to overpromise and underdelivered, there's still some mitigating factors there that will determine. on when this comes out and when this will be completed. But I can tell you this.

It's unlike anything I've ever done before personally in my entire career, in my entire broadcasting career or my entire podcasting career for UAP. It's a completely new way for me to approach the show. And I'm very excited about the vision. I'm very excited and hopeful about the way that it's come out so far. I have a lot of different influences that I think played into how I produced this and put this together so far. And it covers one specific topic.

And it's going to be over, I guess I'll say a length of episodes. It's more than one episode. It's more than three episodes. So I'm going to leave it at that for now. But it's unlike anything that we've ever experienced here as far as what I've done on UAP. And it's really been a living, breathing project that has taken on a life of its own. and I've learned a lot from point A to where I am now

of things I really didn't expect to learn on where some of this, I guess I'll say, investigation has gone throughout the process of making this little spin-off. So more on that in the future. I just want to let you know that I am working on something like that behind the scenes and when I can give you more details on what that is and when it's going to come out,

I will let you know. But all that said, I think this has gone on long enough for today. Thank you so much for joining. I really hope you enjoyed the episode because I certainly enjoyed that conversation. And make sure to tune in again, like I said, in the next few days for Scott Roter. Really cool stuff, some new information that he came to the table with on the Vegas side of things. And he has a really strong opinion on the MH370 videos from Ashton Forbes as well,

which I had never been able to get his opinion on that. But he actually recently, like, really dove into it. So we're going to talk about that as well. And a really cool catch-up with Scott Rotor that I'll be presenting to you on episode. 1138 of UAP. But until then, be sure to continue to subscribe, download the show wherever you get your podcasts on all the

major podcasting platforms. Follow along on social media. I post a lot, especially on Twitter at UA Podcast 850. Also on TikTok, YouTube, at UA podcast on YouTube. Getting more up there lately so you can follow along there. A lot of the videos who did at Contact in the Desert are up on YouTube as well.

And some of the episodes and interviews to try to put up all those so you can kind of see the behind the scenes on that stuff as well. And you can always reach out to me on those social media channels too, so feel free to do that. Or through email,

S-Dieneru-A-P at gmail.com, that's S-D-I-E-N-E-R-U-A-P at gmail. But on that note, thank you all again for everything, for all the support, for all the kind messages, and just love it so much.

Thank you for listening and for continuing to come back here to experience all these new adventures on UAP. Can't wait to talk again soon. So until then, it's Stephen Deiner here saying, be well. Thanks so much. And we will talk again soon.

Right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast.