UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 142 Uncovering New Facts Behind the Nazca Mummies and Buga Sphere

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

The tridactyl Nazca mummies and the mysterious Buga sphere, two of the most controversial topics within Ufology today, so why not cover both at the same time?! Stephen Diener brings on acclaimed filmmaker, Michael Mazzola, to get the inside story on both as he has been documenting everything since the start. If you thought these things were hoaxes, you might think differently after you hear this one...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Everybody talked about it since I first moved to Oregon. The big one, the earthquake that trashed the whole West Coast, total destruction. Officially calling it the largest natural disaster in American history. I just didn't know what would help me next. So I took it all. Even the gun. It was time. Selo?

American Afterlife, presented by pair of thieves, the number one fiction and drama podcast in America. Listen wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Available now. A support group for barely functioning adults. It's the Dave and Mahoney show. You know I dated a phone sex operator? Did she know that you were dating?

They would have to go into like a call center, cubicles and stuff like that. Can you imagine having phone sex with some lonely guy while you're sitting in a cubicle? Do you think that it would make you more competitive? Did you have to ding the bell? Yeah, I got one. He's done. Oh my gosh. Grab the Dave and Mahoney podcast now on Apple Podcasts on Spotify and at Dave.

Stephen Mahoney.com. Welcome back into UAP. Stephen Dean. We're back with you here. As always, for episode number 142. That's right, 142 here for the Unidentified Alien podcast. And I will also say, before we get into today's episode, happy anniversary to you, to me, for four years of doing this show together. I can't believe it's been four years.

To the date, episode one of UAP happened on July 2nd, 2020. and it just also happens to be International UFO Day. And I must say, I think I've mentioned this maybe once or twice in the past over the past four years. When I started this show, when I did episode one, four years ago, to the day right now in July 2nd as I released this episode, I had no idea at that time that it was International UFO Day. I found out I think maybe while I was recording it or right after. But that was never the intention that was never the plan. So I don't know.

Maybe it was fate that this show would take off the way it did. and it would bring us here today four years later. Maybe it was written in the stars, who knows. But happy anniversary to you, to me, for making it this far, four years of UAP. And here's to another year so we can say happy anniversary on year five. That would be great if we can do that a year from today. But other than that, I am looking forward to presenting this new episode to you today because I'm covering something that I've been really, really wanting to dig into.

I've covered it a little bit here and there. but today I'm really digging into the tridactal NASCAR mummies and the Buga sphere. Now, I've talked about the tridactamomies a couple of times with Pavel from the Sicoactivo podcast, and he's done a great job with it. We've spoken about it a couple of times in the past, but I really wanted to get into the updates, and I haven't been able to really dig into it lately, and so much has happened with these mummies that I wanted to find a way to really cover it in a way that I haven't before.

And I was happy to do that with Michael Mazzola. So you're going to hear today an interview with myself and Michael Mazzola. Michael is an acclaimed director, producer, writer. He's done, I mean, a myriad of different films on the UAP issue and written different books and everything. So I was really happy to get Michael on the show because he has been front and center. He has placed himself, and you'll hear us talk about this, I'll even mention it during the interview, but he has placed himself in the middle of the investigations when a guy. comes to the mummies and the sphere.

So if you don't know what these are, just real quick, I'll tell you, the tridactyl, we call them tridactyl because they have three fingers and three toes. And they came from Peru in the NASCAR region. They're said to be a thousand years old, and they are mummies that don't look human. I mean, there's no other way to put it. I mean, they look very much like an extraterrestrial. There's been a lot of controversy around these over the past couple of years, and they were introduced by the Mexican UFO investigator, famous throughout Central America and North America, actually, Jaime Malsan.

And he is huge when it comes to this subject specifically, but also the UAP subject as a whole. And he's kind of a, I guess you can say, controversial or maybe polarizing is probably the better word. He's kind of polarizing, just like some other big figures and some of the names you're going to hear like Dr. Stephen Greer. is also polarizing in this field, but you either, you know, kind of take it on face value and make up your mind or you just shut somebody out because you hear a name. You say, well, I don't want to hear about that person, which you know where I stand. I always want to try to get both sides of the story, and I try to present that to you. So even though some of the names you're going to hear like Hamimasa and Dr. Stephen Greer might

be polarizing. You might have preconceived notions with these names. I still want to present you the details of what's happening. And I was so happy to get Michael Mazzola on the show to do that because he's been there in the room investigating these tridactal mummies. Again, a thousand years old. A lot of controversies surrounding these. What are they? Are the actual alien mummies?

Or are they a hoax? Are there something else? A lot of theories. So we talk about that because he's had a front row seat to all of it. And it's been pretty incredible. And he gives so many great details that I've never heard before. And I'm really excited for you to hear what he has to say about this and what's happened behind the scenes and during the events. and during the investigations and whatnot, the cover-ups.

It's like something out of a movie, actually, oddly enough, considering that he's a director and writer. So we go into all of that. And more recently, the talk about the sphere, they called the Buga sphere because of the town where it was found in Buga, Columbia. And that was more recent. If you haven't seen it, there was a video that went viral of this sphere

floating across the sky. I mean, no means of propulsion. It's really just this metal circle, is this metal orb. and eventually came crashing down to the ground. It was recovered by the witnesses and also ended up in the possession of Jaime Masan. And now, so that there's a lot of controversy and contention surrounding the sphere,

but also some very compelling facts about the makeup of it. So this is really kind of like up-to-date stuff that, which is exactly what I wanted to do. I wanted to be as current and new as possible on this subject. And I think that's, I was able to accomplish that and be able to present you some new details here. Listen close because, man, I'm telling you, Michael, he brings it and he gives us some really good stuff here during this interview, during this conversation, and then stick around for a couple of afterthoughts. But until then, right now, myself, Michael Mazzola, here on episode 142 of UAP.

Enjoy. Well, I'm excited for this. I'm excited to bring it to you. Michael Mazzola, acclaimed film director, one of the biggest names in all of you followed you when it comes to films having to do with the UFO phenomenon. joining us here on UAP. Michael, thanks so much for making time to do this. I know we were trying to work our schedules out. We finally got it done.

So thanks so much for doing this today. Thank you for having me, Stephen. Yeah, of course. And there's so much I want to cover with you, but I got to start at the beginning. I always say the best place to start is at the beginning. And that's when it comes to, you've had a front row seat. And I've been following your work recently

when it comes to the Bougasphere that came out of Columbia. and the tridactal NASCAR mummies that, of course, have become very famous. They've been around for years, but they became much more known over the past couple of years, thanks to Jaime Massan and the work that he's done and brought attention to it with Mexican Congress and such. I think we'll remember what happened there. And you have gone and have been documenting these investigations. So I want to start with the tridactal NASCAR mummies. What have you seen there that has piqued your interest so much?

as a director, as a writer, as a producer that has told you, I have to go investigate this and see this up close myself. I had a great question. So I had seen Jaime for years. He would come to Paula Harris's conference in Laughlin. It's no longer a thing, but she used to do these annual symposiums in Laughlin, Nevada. It's like the leper colony of Las Vegas. But it was a really great event, and he would usually come out,

and he would give an update on the research of the mummies. And I always wonder, like, why isn't this a bigger story? And that everyone in, you know, sort of the U.S., UK, kind of English-speaking, euphology world was like, oh, everyone knows that's a hoax. Oh, my God. Like, it's so stupid. And I always wanted to give it more attention, but I was busy with my own projects. So then back in September of 2023,

Jaime very infamously brought two of these bodies, unveiled them for the Mexican Senate. And it went super viral. The footage just went super viral. And it was mean to death. And everyone was having a good laugh. And I was getting hit up like crazy, including by leading people in the UFO field

who are asking me, hey, is this real? And I'm like, why are you asking me? I'd be asking you, right? So we decided to go down and and check it out. So January of last year, I went down to Mexico and met with Jaime in his office, and he was so kind to arrange for those same bodies that he brought in front of the Congress to be brought to his office so I could see them. So I'm saying, so I'm saying, sitting there in his office and my friends back in LA start texting me these articles that were breaking like that, basically that day. And it was an AP story that had got picked up by a bunch of different outlets. And basically it was saying, oh, the Peruvian Ministry of Culture confiscated the

bodies. And they did DNA analysis and it's just chicken bones and string and glue. And you're an idiot if you think this is real. And then you've got, you've got these photographs of these two dolls, right? And they're like these two little mummy looking things. And one of them's wearing a dress. The other one has like a little sombrero and like it looks stupid, right? And so my friends are sending this to me that are like, oh, you wasted your time. And I'm looking at the pictures. And then I'm looking at the bodies that are right in front of me. And I'm like, well, number Number one, if you confiscated the bodies, how are they right here? And number two, these are clearly not the same beings, right?

So I'm like, okay, this is very weird. Then I meet a guy named Dr. Jose Salsay. This guy is Lieutenant Colonel in the Mexican Navy. He's the head of all health research and development for the Mexican Navy. He's the top forensic guy. This is a guy who goes out to mass graves and puts all the bodies back together. you know and and when he first examined these bodies he saw that these were um he didn't know what they were but they were clearly not assembled right and what he said to me was he's like we can't even do

a like a facial transplant on a human that looks anywhere near convincing but you're telling me that someone is combining different species in a way that is perfect it has perfect continuity, right? That even the joints show the wear and tear you'd expect to see in a body that walked around with this skeleton and like, and use these muscles and use these joints. And he's like, there isn't, there isn't a single indication anywhere. There isn't a seam, there isn't a stitch. There's nowhere where something was rejected. Like, it is, it is perfectly harmonious. That's the word he kept using. So when he had originally said, hey, in my opinion, this is a real thing. We don't know what it is, but it's not a hoax. His boss and his commanding officer in the Mexican Navy called them

in and said, you've got two choices. You can write a letter saying that Jaime Mason is a hoaxer, and he put you up to this, and we will actually promote you one rank. Or you can go to jail. So he chose jail. And he was actually in prison for five days before he managed to get him out. His wife and his lawyers were threatening this huge, like, humanitarian PR campaign. And so they got him out. And he was demoted. He was stripped of his title.

So, you know, I'm talking to this guy. He's showing me CT scans of these bodies. And he's showing me like, like these metal implants in them that are made of things like osmium and and cadmium you know osmium wasn't even discovered until 1803 or 1804 right and these are these are supposedly how old these bodies they're like thousands of years old right they're at least a thousand years old and that's the only thing about them that's not in dispute right like even the people who are debunking and saying oh no it's llama skulls or whatever they'll still admit it's a thousand years old right so and then one of them's

got, you know, one of these small ones has got eggs in its belly, right? And it's like, you know, and on some of these, you've even got, like, you've got, you've got, um, capillaries going into the eggs. Like, like, it's stuff that you could not, like, you would need technology that doesn't exist yet, right, in order to assemble these things and fake them. But you're going to tell me that grave robbers in the Peruvian countryside, who don't have millions of dollars of technology that doesn't exist yet in medical education, are somehow magically creating these hoaxes and then selling them for a few thousand dollars on the black market to Russian oligarchs.

That is ridiculous. So we're talking about it. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah. We're talking about like an actual fetal relationship. Like we're seeing some type of. fetal structure where we're talking about these, you know, a capillary system going into the eggs that were inside one of these bodies. I mean, that's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. And you can see,

if you go to tridactals.org, you can see all of the tomography scans. You can see the, there's one of the bodies, one of the larger ones called Montserrat, which is so interesting. There's such diversity with the bodies, but what they all have in common is the three fingers and the three toes. So that's why they're called the tridactals, right? But Montserrat has this elongated skull, more human size, has this gold implant in her forehead, but she's got a tridactal fetus in her belly.

So how were you going to fake that? So like our film that we're just wrapping up right now, it's called This Is Not a Hoax. And Jesse Michael suggested we should add to the title, or if it is a hoax, it's the greatest hoax in history. because it literally would, like, if it's a hoax, that's also a monumental story. Because it's like, okay, great.

All this technology that doesn't exist is being used to create these things for some reason. So then, you know, so we were, so this was January of last year, hanging with Dr. Sal say, hanging with Jaime. And then they're like, hey, you know, in like a week, we're going to Peru. we're getting these new bodies. Do you want to come? We're like, totally. Yeah, let's do it. So we went down to Peru and then we published these images. You can see, then if you go to Tridactals.org, it's not my website. I don't maintain it. But you can see these bodies known as Santiago and Sebastian. These are the ones. These are the ones that, like, we were there filming when the grave robber brought these in and gave them to Jaime Scientific Team.

for the first time. So we were filming all the raw reactions. And these look like there's something out of a Hollywood prop department, right? But they're not. Like we took them straight to a lab in Lima to do x-rays. Now they've done the tomography and 3D scans. They've got metal implants. And then we brought out Dr. John McDowell, who's like the medical examiner of Denver, former president of the American Forensic Society. This is, he's a tenured of or retired medical professor at University of Colorado. He came out with his own forensic team and inspected these and said, these look real.

Like, we don't know what they are. We can't be 100% sure, but they do not look, like there's no signs of these being assembled, you know? And like, these are, this isn't the A team. This is the A plus team, right? And then they actually held a press conference in Lima, where they were saying this, and you can see the Peruvian Ministry of

culture, show up and raid the press conference live on the air. And it was the most stupid thing I've ever seen. I loved it. I'm like, oh, that's great for my movie, you know. But you see these old ladies with clipboards coming in and saying, oh, we're shutting this down. And you can see them pulling the microphone away from Joyce Montia, the Peruvian journalist who's been covering the story from the very beginning, who's like one of the

heroes of this story. And it was just like, like, the optics of this was just like, oh, I mean, this would be great in the film. I was going to say, like, this is like something that you would write, but it's actually all happening in front of you. Like you're seeing the cover of me. Happen in real time.

Yeah, and we did our own press conference in Los Angeles, where we on, and Jaime came out, and we did it at the Mondrian in West Hollywood, and we had, you know, international press there for three and a half hours, and we got one story, we got Telemundo, and nobody else would run the story. But thank you, Telemundo. We appreciate the story.

But, like, I asked one of my, journalist friends who was there who's told me, oh my God, this was incredible. I'm writing the most amazing story. I'm like, hey, what happened to the story you were writing? He's like, my editor killed it because my editor said, everyone knows these are fake. Why are you wasting my time with this? So, like, the damage has been done, you know? The lie has been repeated so much. And, you know, I get all the hatred and ridicule from the UFO community. Most of this community understands how Psiops work and media manipulation and lies, but they can't see that they're being lied to about this.

Now, you see some people starting to come around, and now they're starting to jump on the story, which is great, you know? And that's why I'm really so happy to be able to talk to you about this, because it's something that I've been, it's been in my peripheral for about a year or so now, maybe about a year and a half, where I'm like, man, I really want to dig into this. I just don't know enough about it, and I don't want to fake it. I want to be able to talk about this intelligently,

but I see it on the surface. I'm like, there's something really wild with this. And when you put it all, to be fair, and I won't put this out there, that's the first time I've ever heard those details of all those stories that you just went through, especially about the doctor. Now, I know there have been American doctors

who have worked on this and who have done tests, which, you know, says a lot in itself, but when you talk about the doctor from Mexico who chose jail time, over a promotion, knowing that... I love this guy. He's... This guy, when you're with him,

you can feel what a heart-centered guy this man is, you know? And he's totally convinced, obviously. Like, he sees something with this that he's willing to stake his reputation and his his livelihood on. And he did. And he did. And he suffered greatly. Now, he's been reinstated because there's a new leadership in, you know?

But it's still frowned upon what he's doing, you know? but all these guys have paid a price. And it's not just Dr. Sal say, and it's not just the American team. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Death Wish Coffee, Brooke Linnon, and Kylie. But what if people haven't heard about your brand? Well, Shopify helps you find your customers with easy-to-run email and social media campaigns. But what if you hit that wall and you get stuck somewhere?

Well, no problem because Shopify is always around to share advice with their reward winning 24-7 customer support. Tackle all those important tasks in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics and more. No need to save multiple websites or try to figure out what platform is hosting the tool that you need. Everything is all in one place with Shopify, making your life easier and your business operations so much smoother. So it's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash UAP. Go to Shopify.com slash UAP. That's Shopify.com slash UAP.

Pros, save more on the materials you need to get the job done inside and out at Lowe's. Right now get 10% off in-stock Treks Naturals decking, now available in more styles. Plus, get 15% off select custom entry, interior, and storm doors. Then we'll deliver it all straight to your job site to help. keep your jobs moving. Get the brand's pros trust, priced right, and ready when you need them. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's. Valid through

527. Wall Supplies last. The selection varies by location. When you fly with Hawaiian Airlines, the whole family enjoys free access to Starlink, the fastest Wi-Fi in the sky, thanks to T-Mobile. Stream, scroll,

message, and game, while sipping a passion orange guava juice. Everyone stays entertainment. and your vacation gets a head start. Enjoy every moment of your trip, even before you land. Hawaii starts here. In Lima, you've got Dr. David Ruiz, who is like the equivalent of Dr. John McDowell in his country, and you've got all these other just unbelievable specialists from Latin

America who are just absolute geniuses. And I had to put together their resumes for our press kit when we did the press conference. And it was just like, you know, pages of accolades. And, but there's just this attitude of like, you know, well, if it's not a white doctor who cares. You know, like I definitely have had people in this community literally say to me, well, it doesn't meet anything until an American doctor does it. I was like, well, okay, fine, we got American doctors. So can we stop being racist and say maybe there's something here, you know? Right.

I mean, qualifications or qualifications. I don't care who you are. That's, that's incredible. Why isn't this bigger, Michael? Why isn't this all over? Now, I know, to be fair, you mentioned Jesse Michaels. He blew up this conversation on Joe Rogan and had Joe Rogan like all into it. I think they actually went to tritactyls.org during the recording of the show.

So I know that got a lot of traction when that interview came out. But I feel like this should be more on top of the conversation. Why isn't it? Because of that initial smear campaign, right? It was very, very effective. The Ministry of Culture flat out lied to everybody. They said we confiscated the bodies at the airport. Now, we interviewed the guy who made those dolls.

His name is Manuel. He lives in Palpa, which is near Nazca. That's actually where the bodies are from. They're from Palpa. And he told them. He told the authorities at the airport. He said, no, no, no, these aren't the mummies. I made these.

these are works of art. I'm going to sell them to tourists. They ignored that and then said, oh, we did DNA tests. Oh, really? So Jaime sued them for $300 million. And they were ordered by the courts in Peru to hand the court said, okay, show us all of the analysis that you did on the bodies that led you to believe that they were fake. Well, the problem is they never did any analysis. So they actually went to the University of Eka and tried to confiscate the bodies, right? The university said, go away, right? But since then, since then, the Ministry of Culture has actually been allowed to go in, take two of the bodies that I'm aware of, and they took him to a local hospital, ran scans, they released a report, and, like, so far, all of their findings,

are, oh, this seems to be a harmonious structure that isn't assembled. They haven't officially said it's real, but if you read the report, that's the conclusion, that's the obvious conclusion of this. So it's moving in the right direction. The problem is there's a hundred articles when you Google this that have already been written saying it's fake, it's dolls, you're stupid if you believe this, it's chicken bones, the end, right? And it's just built-in bias to kind of trust the first version of events that you hear, even if there's more persuasive narratives that come afterwards.

So we are also, this thing is just ridiculous on the face of it, right? I mean, these things, they look like something straight out of a movie. Yeah. You know, the ones that were unveiled in Mexico look like cake art. Right. You know, like, you look at this and it's like, there's no way these could be real. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of fat. And also there's just this, like someone literally said to me on X last week is like,

oh, if this was real, it would be all over the news. And I'm like, okay. So, you know. Not really. Yeah. So I'm like, that's what you're dealing with, right? That's okay. Because that's where I come in.

There would be no room for me to make a documentary if this story was already out there. Yeah, and kudos to you for doing this because, like you mentioned earlier, you know, you've been dealing with, you know, being ridiculed yourself and even having, you know, friends be like, why are you wasting time on this? It's incredible stuff. And, you know, honestly, if you weren't front row and center or kind of documenting the whole thing, I'm not sure we would have all these details to present right now. why the metal plate in the chest, Michael?

That's something I've been wondering. Do we have any idea? I mean, I'm sure it's speculation. I'm sure we don't have an exact answer on that. But what's the speculation behind the metal plate in the chest that's shown up on the x-rays? So the speculation on the metal breastplate was that it may have been repairing some kind of fracture, but there are these other metal implants that are perfectly integrated. into their necks, their skull structure, and they're really, they're really weird, man.

And so this may be a way of interfacing with their technology. If these are extraterrestrial in origin, whether they are ETs or were created by ETs or created by a pre-human earth civilization, like we don't know, you know, because of what we do know about how ET, like actual ET technology works and how their consciousness is fully integrated with the technology, this, this may be like helping them interface, like, think of it as like a really advanced neuralink, right? Yeah, hypothesis. Yeah, that's really interesting. And And when we talk about some of these bodies, and this is just to play kind of devil's advocate, and I'm sure it's come up, is there any type of possibility that we could be looking at an anomaly here of a deformed human?

Have there been enough DNA tests on this to make a separation that shows somewhere along the line that something in the biology, in the makeup of these bodies, doesn't match to that of a human. So there have not been enough DNA tests, but we are solving that problem right now. And that's all I can say on that. But that's, we've got, we're going to have a lot more data to work with very, very, very soon. But of the DNA tests that have been done,

the, and there's been a lot of criticism of this, but I'll present to you what the scientists involved in Latin America and Mexico who have done these DNA tests. They're looking at it and they're saying these appear to be a genetic hybrid. They're looking at these repeating sequences and saying, this is the kind of thing that we see when something's engineered or spliced together in a lab. So it looks to be like a 70% combination of different Earth species, like humans and primates, and then 30% unknown. Wow.

But, you know, the science is just beginning, right? And there's so much criticism of like, oh, these have not been handled properly. And oh, they're in, you know, why, you know, I post a picture. Like, why is this thing sitting in a box and no way? And it's like, why is this person being allowed to touch this? And it's like, well, you know, I'm sorry. This is all being handled the best. that we can, considering that it's not allowed to be studied officially.

You know, like, this is what happens when you have a massive cover-up, and you literally have to hide the bodies from government officials who are trying to confiscate it so that they can continue to lie, right, and cover it up. So if you don't like the way that this has been handled, please point the finger at the Peruvian Ministry of Culture, who are a bunch of liars and losers and hacks. Just watch the video of them raiding the press conference. It's the most ridiculous thing you've ever seen.

It's like, what were they thinking? Oh, we've been trying to kill this story since 2017. What will finally put this to rest? Oh, I know. Let's raid the press conference in front of the international media. It's stupid. stupid people that doesn't look suspicious at all yeah not at all yeah but yeah so we're we're working on getting a lot more data um but i will say it there's a lot of stuff out there

there's reports floating around oh it's a llama it's just a reverse flama skull and that you know we don't when i asked the scientists involved about that they give me a very interesting answer they said we don't know like whoever did that study we don't know what body they were looking at Because all of the bodies that are in the possession of this group, most of which are at the university in Peru, you know, every scientist who has examined those bodies and the data associated with them has come to the same conclusion, which is these are not a hoax, right? We don't know what they are, but they're not assembled. Right. Right?

Because that's been one of the main contentions is the Lama skull. That's been one of the main things that a lot of people thrown out from what I've seen. Yeah. So I said, so what about this Lama skull? They said, we don't know what body they were looking at. It's not one of ours. Now keep in mind, you've got a shady grave robber who's been selling these things on the black market prior to this group getting involved, right, and trying to preserve them, right?

So you've got these things that have disappeared into private collections. They're out there in the world. We don't know where they are. So there's more somewhere out there. Oh, there's like probably up to a hundred. Wow. You know? I don't know.

It's hard to keep track. And you talk to the grave robber and he gives you different answers. And like I hired him to take me to the cave where these things were supposedly discovered. And he took me to the wrong cave. He took me, you know, two hour vertical climb up a mountain when I'm terrified of heights. And then it's clearly not the place where he's excavating this. It was way too small. You know, so it's like this guy's super shady, but also there's a market for, you know,

for people who want to buy, oh, I want to buy alien artifacts and huge markets of this stuff. So you're going to have fakes made. Now, I don't know if they're being made by the same guy. They're probably made by other groups because there's actually a lot of groups involved with making fake things. So you could have knockoffs of these that have ended up in a private collection, and then that's what gets studied, and that's the Leromus School. Like, this thing is so messy, right? It's like, I don't blame a lot of people from just saying, I don't want to, it's just a mess.

It's just got to be fake, right? But if you take the time to really talk to the people involved and really look at the data, and really separate these bodies, right? Because they're very different. It's very clear that the ones that are being studied by this group, go to tridactals.org, are not assembled. Right. Those main ones that you guys have.

Yeah. And if they are assembled, then that raises new questions. It's like, what technology are you using to combine these different species into a perfectly harmonious specimen. That's interesting. So I'm not saying these are aliens. I'm not saying anything. I'm saying these are compelling enough

to deserve the worldwide scientific community to come and participate in the science. And that's all these scientists want in Mexico and Peru. All they want is for serious credentialed scientists to come and participate. Come take your own samples. Come do your own tests. Come give us your opinion.

We're not saying, we know what it is. We're saying we find this very compelling. Please come and let's do some science, right? Which is done by consensus after you have a lot of different replication, right? And it's interesting. And I do want to ask you about some of the recent investigation that took place. And if we still have time, we'll get into the sphere from Columbia.

But it is interesting when you talk about some of the facts involved at this. when you look at the supposed cover-up. I mean, it's hard to ignore threats of jail time. It's hard to ignore people storming a press conference. So maybe not why the cover-up, but who? Who do you think is running cover on this, Michael, that would go through such trouble as to threaten jail time to prestigious doctors and scientists

and to try to storm press conferences and all these different things that have happened, steal bodies and such? So I don't know, because I'm not a mind reader, but I've spent my career making films about this, you know, the military industrial complex, which originated in America, but it's totally transnational. We say transnational instead of international, because international is like, you know, government to government. Transnational is it's transcending all of it. It's just global. It's its own thing. And, you know, people think, oh, the government is. lying about UFO the government doesn't know anything about UFOs they don't know anything right

they're trying to find out now right you've got really uh sincere and intelligent people like congressman burleson who just came with us tonight which was awesome yeah i couldn't believe that he came i was we could talk about that yeah if you want to ask you about the government yeah but the government doesn't know anything right it is this you know like the key word is industrial in military industrial complex. This is all private sector stuff, right? And so you've got this sort of rogue criminal organization that can just go around and kick down doors and intimidate people, assuming that the mummies are related to the extraterrestrial phenomenon in some way. It's very unusual to have this kind of evidence in civilian hands.

Like if this was in the U.S., and assuming it's related to ETs in some way, it would have been confiscated, everyone would be dead, right? But it's very possible that, you know, Ministry of Culture or whatever is getting marching orders from this legacy group, or I always like to say, you don't need a conspiracy when human nature will explain it just fine, right? If you're an anthropologist working for the Ministry of Culture, you are a university-educated person,

you've been taught a certain set of facts and a certain narrative, and these specimens completely threaten that, like completely threaten that, and people identify with their positions, with their jobs, with, you know, and so it's like it's a threat to their identity. And so, like, you're going to have this, they don't need to be told to go suppress this.

It's just, you know, like, Eric Weinstein calls this the, like, he calls it the disc. It's like the distributed information. suppression suppression complex or something, but basically like people in an institution will just kind of like automatically jump in to suppress information that's a threat to that institution as like an immune response, you know, and it's not like a conspiracy. It's like a human nature thing. And so it could just be that. Like I don't know, but these people are being super shady. They're full of crap. They've lied and lied and lied. They abused their position of power. They've caused all kinds of stress and harm to the people involved, like Jaime, like Dr. Salce and these others. And it needs to stop. And it's going to stop by us shining a light on it, shaming them, right? They should be absolutely ashamed of what they've done, right?

It's not a personal attack, but it's like they need to stop. And now let's have some real science. Because right now all the science that's happening is happening not in ideal conditions. Right. Right. It's kind of like underground at the moment because of all the threats, I suppose, right? Exactly. Hey, guys, so before we get back into the conversation, I just want to talk about something that affects all of us. And it's scary. Starting something new, right? It's hard and it is kind of terrifying because you think about all the work that goes into it.

Are you going to succeed? What new challenges am I going to face? It's that uncertainty. But I know how that is, because I can think back when I started UAP, I was just hoping for the best. and it's just like that when you're starting your own business. That's why Shopify is so great and why I'm so happy to be able to talk about them. Because despite all the fears and hesitations when starting something new, it certainly helps to have a partner like Shopify on your side to help. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Death Wish Coffee,

Brooke Linnon, and Kylie. But what if people haven't heard about your brand? Well, Shopify helps you find your customers with easy-to-run email and social media campaigns. But what if you hit that wall and you get stuck somewhere? Well, no problem because Shopify is always around to share advice with their reward-winning 24-7 customer support. Tackle all those important tasks in one place, from inventory to payments, to analytics, and more. No need to save multiple websites or try to figure out what platform is hosting the tool that you need. Everything is all in one place with Shopify.

making your life easier and your business operations so much smoother. So it's time to turn those what-ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash UAP. Go to Shopify.com slash UAP. That's Shopify.com slash UAP. In California, staying compliant means watching the state laws and the city rules at the same time. And no wonder it feels overwhelming. Meal breaks, rest breaks, wage rules, constant updates, it's a lot.

And that's why Southern California businesses rely on Guardian HR. They're local in L.A. And they understand this community and they help you stay compliant to avoid costly missteps. You get accurate payroll software and a real HR expert who keeps you ahead of issues. Get your Southern California business protected at GuardianHR.com. When you fly with Hawaiian Airlines, it's hard to tell where your flight ends. and vacation begins. Relax with Free Starlink, the fastest Wi-Fi in the sky, thanks to T-Mobile. Go ahead, stream your movie. Book the couple's massage. Make a dinner reservation while we bring you to our island home. Hawaii starts here. So if you listen to this, have some criticism of how the science has been done, you know where to stick it.

Fair. There enough. No, it's really, gosh, beyond interesting to consider the implications of this. Because it would challenge a narrative. It would challenge a very old narrative. Then you would have to try to explain a way, well, were we living with alien hybrids a thousand years ago? Or were they being created by somebody with a higher intelligence a thousand years ago? And these are all questions that would need answering. So I suppose maybe it is, like you said, a possibility of it just being human nature of saying,

we don't want to deal with that. Let's just continue the narrative that we're used to going with. If you're starting from the assumption that this absolutely must be fake, you know, why would you even bother running tests? Were you surprised? Were you surprised, Michael? Did you have a moment when you went and saw these things up front and you were speaking to Hyman? You were speaking with the officials?

Did you have that moment to yourself where you said, holy cow, like, this is actually could be something here. I was surprised by how blatant and ballsy the cover-up was. What blew me away was how bold the lies were. And I was like, wow, like, this is, like, they're just not even, like, these people don't even care, right? They're just going to tell the world that these dolls are the same things. And that's it. But you know what?

It worked. It worked. Their lives totally worked. Yeah. And to your point, I do want to ask you about Eric Burleson as well, but before I get to that, to your point about the cover up and changing and kind of creating this narrative just a couple of days ago before we spoke here, there was someone on X and they commented on something that I put up about the investigation that Congressman Burleson, who is a friend of the show, by the way, or at least I like to think so because he's been on here a couple of times. So shout out to him. I always enjoy bringing him on here. And I retweeted the video of him and Dr. Greer with Jaime Mousan going over looking at these mummies. And I said, this is a huge step. I think this is pretty incredible that a sitting congressman would go and travel to Mexico City and look at these supposed bodies for himself. And someone commented with a response to question they asked to Grock.

Of course, if somebody doesn't know, is the AI system on X. and they asked about the mummies. And the response from GROC, the AI system was, these have been proven to be a hoax, that they were dolls. I was like, wow, look at this. So to your point, that's the narrative that has even reached AI systems. Yeah, of course. Of course.

Because the people building AI systems are the same people who own the media outlets that are just repeating these lies. And so they're going to feed what they think are credible. sources, their own sources, you know? It's like, yeah. So I took Jesse Michaels down to like a month or two ago to meet. He, I arranged for him to go to Peru. I didn't go on that trip, but he went down.

He saw those bodies. And then I met him in Mexico and introduced him to Jaime and everything. And, you know, a few days before I went down there, Jaime, he was telling me, oh, I've got a surprise for you. And I'm like, I think I know what it is. Because I had seen that he went and got the bugosphere. Right. So I, it's funny, I took a picture of it when I was in his office and just threw it on X, not thinking anything of it. And then that's become like the, if you Google the boogeosphere, that's become the official picture of this thing with the, with the two hands. I think those are Jesse's hands, actually.

That's funny. It's funny. People were sending me that picture and they're like, Remy has the sphere. I'm like, yeah, I took that picture. But, uh, well done. But yeah, yeah, it was pretty cool. And this, this sphere thing, like, we've got, it's so, so weird that people are telling me, it's fake, it's fake, it's fake, it's like, well, first of all, it's not fake, it's a real thing.

So it's either manmade or it's not manmade, but it's not fake. So the video, it's a real object. It is. I mean, you saw it, you took a picture of it, the picture that goes right? like you said in Google images. I've held it, you know. We played a little volleyball with it. Oh, sure.

Yeah, dodgeball. Yeah. So, I mean, you could see the video that kind of went viral of this sphere, flying across the sky and ends up falling down and it's picked up and retrieved by civilians, I believe, right? And then eventually finds its way over to Jaime Mousan. Do I have that right? Yeah.

So the guy, so the guy who filmed it and then retrieved it. And again, we have two different angles, two different angles, two different. people with different vantage points filming this thing at the same time. So the dude who went and picked it up, he ended up having his fingerprints singed off, even though this thing was cold. Wow. And he gave it to his cousin, who we interviewed,

his cousin, David, who has like an electronics distribution company, so they've got a little science equipment, whatever. As soon as this guy posted the video with his company logo on it, on it, he starts getting calls from like Brazilian Air Force base saying, hey, that's ours. That's our technology and you don't have the right to, you need to give it back to us. And he's like, oh, oh, this is yours? Oh, okay. Can you tell me how many little dots does it have around the rim?

And they're like, oh, that's classified. And he's like, well, it's classified. It's sitting on my lap. So if it's yours, just tell me, like, did me some details about it and I, you know. And he was getting all that. all these threats from other private companies in Latin America. And he's in Colombia with the sphere. It's in Colombia, right?

And so he's like, OK, I've had enough fun with this. I'm going to give it to Jaime because he'll know what to do. So gave it to Jaime, never asked for any money, you know, like, and that's the other thing. People were just trying to get rich. He's kind of didn't get any money for it. They just gave it to Jaime because they knew that Jaime could protect it. Because Primey is a total boss.

He's got, you know, know, this guy has a lot of infrastructure, he's got a lot of security, and he's got a lot of visibility, right? He knows how to get millions of people watching something, and that's something I've learned from Stephen Greer is, like, very, very important to have millions of people watching what you're doing, because then it just makes it harder to take you out, right? So, Jaime gets a hold of it, and, you know, there's some really weird things with this thing. Like, it, It keeps increasing in weight, right? Like as time goes on, so that's weird.

When they poured water on it to clean it initially, the water evaporated. And you can see a video of this, even though the thing was cold. And it's an incredible, and the metal is incredibly dense. It's denser than any sort of aerospace material we've ever used. So we actually brought on this last trip, like a week ago or whatever it was, we brought some extremely pedigreed scientists who want to remain anonymous. Okay. And they took samples.

We got metal samples, but we also got, like, you see these guys on Twitter who just don't know anything because they're not, it's not their fault. Like, they're just going off of pictures. Sure. With black paint around it, you know, it's like, no, no, this was, this was like polymer and we got samples of this. and so we could do carbon 14 tests. Okay. Right. And we're going to be doing double blind.

We're not, we don't know what laboratories is going to. The laboratories don't know what they're receiving, you know. So like this is going to be done right. Yeah. Testing is underway like as we speak to find out how old it is, what type of material, all these different things. Yeah. So because again, this thing. And again, you got like everyone chiming in and saying, oh, look at the markings.

It looks like some human. And that was my impression. But I also try to not anthropomorphize and be like, well, if I was a super advanced alien civilization, here's how I would do the markings on my magic sphere. I don't know. But it's also possible that this thing is very ancient and has been sitting here for a long time as some kind of probe. And maybe humans were putting inscriptions on it, you know? And now this thing's been activated.

We don't know. I'm not putting forward any kind of theory about this. But, you know, having interviewed the witnesses, I'm satisfied that we have a good chain of custody for this. I'm satisfied that this is the same thing that we see flying around, right? There are enough anomalies about this thing already. And we are already finding more. There are these microscopic, integrated, perfectly integrated fiber optics, right? I've heard about that.

Yeah. Can you talk about some of these anomalies that? associated with it, Michael, as far as any frequencies or the fiber optics and all these different things? Well, again, it all needs to be studied. It's in the process. But the fact that you've got these fiber, what appear to be fiber optics, these would appear to be, again, this is just like first impressions of the scientists looking at this. The eye test. It's like, this is not how we manufacture stuff. Again, this thing is very weird. And again, there are no like seems or parts to it, it doesn't appear to be, it seems to have all been kind of manufactured in one piece.

Right. Even though there are different components to it and different densities and different elements, it all seems to be, we don't see where any of these different components were welded together, glued together. It all seems to be like kind of integrated. So again, like we're trying to do a little science. and we all have to just be patient. I'm writing a book. I wrote a book called Catastrophic Disclosures coming out later this year,

available for pre-order on my ex-account. Good. So must plug. My co-author, Kent Hecken-Lively, is also co-writing a book with Eric Berluson. So Kent actually introduced us. And so I said, hey, Congressman, you know, we're going to this thing.

We're going to see, you know, There was a press conference. We're going to see the sphere. I'm going to see the mummies. Would you like to come? And I couldn't believe that he said, yes. He said, oh, sounds fun. Outstanding.

That's how that came about them because everybody was shocked when we saw sitting congressman. And again, kudos to Eric Burleson for taking this subject seriously. And actually, that's what I had posted on Twitter the other day about it, that I feel like he's kind of become the point man. I know, we've always, we've seen Nancy Mace kind of take point. He was seeing Timberchette take point. Annapalina Luna, of course, is taking point in times. But it seems like Burleson has really become the point man on this. And he's the guy out in front, really kind of investigating this issue seriously,

so much so that he responds to your request to go to Mexico with you to take a look at this. So that's how that all came about then. That's what happened. And Jaime was so excited. And Jaime was like calling me. He's like, is Berluson really coming? I'm like, yeah, he's really coming. He hasn't canceled yet?

No, he hasn't canceled. It's actually happening. So it was amazing. And they really rolled out the red carpet for him and gave him full access to everything. He got to talk to all the scientists involved. They did the press conference. And Berluson was just supposed to be a guest in the audience.

He ends up getting up and speaking at the end and saying, listen, I'm not going to draw any conclusions. But it's really important that this stuff gets tested, and the results get out there and it's not suppressed. And it was amazing, you know? It was so cool. And I got to spend a little bit of time with him. He brought Timothy Albarino with him.

Oh, cool. As a guest, and so I got to meet him, and he was a really interesting guy. And, but I got to hear, like, you know, Congressman's perspective on a lot of the stuff. He's really smart. And he understands that you got to listen to everyone's perspective and inform your own opinion. Don't just listen to, you know, one guy on your staff telling you, here's the narrative to believe, because you've got so many competing narratives.

So, like, Eric was willing to go and put himself in what I imagine would be an uncomfortable position. You know, you had people calling his office saying, How could you allow him to go and appear with these grifters? And it's like, you know, Eric's going to do his own thing. He's really smart. He's not going to be told what to do. So I thought it was so cool. Yeah, very much so.

And just to have that, it was very surreal, even for me as a spectator, to see this picture. And it's kind of the one that went viral where Dr. Greer is holding the mummy. And you have Jaime to the right. And in the middle is Eric Burleson. And he just has kind of like this. Doc's look on his face, kind of like the eyes bulging out of his head a little bit. You took that picture, right?

I took that picture. And actually, the guy on the right is a guy named Martin, and he's actually the guy who's the custodian of the two bodies that are in Mexico. So those are the only bodies that legally had the paperwork to ever leave Peru. I don't know how he got it. He's got good lawyers. So those are the ones that were presented to the Mexican Senate. So that's Martin, amazing guy, amazing friend.

love him. Really cool dude. And you see Eric and he's like, so people have like cropped it and puts the most hilarious captions on it. And so yeah, but I took that picture. Very, very well done on that. So all in all, I guess Michael, what is the overall, where do we stand? Where do we stand on the sphere? Where do we stand on the mummies? Now that it's really gotten kind of a new level of attention with Dr. Gruy being there and investigating at the same time as Congressman Burleson, where do we stand in all these things and where do you kind of see it moving forward?

Well, we're waiting to see what the metal analysis is going to say, like, do these isotopes originate on Earth or from non-Earth origin? So we'll, let's just wait and see what happens. I'm leaning towards this being, even though the inscriptions on them look like just a dude with a chisel made this. I am leaning towards this being NHI in origin, but that's just my personal opinion at this point. And that's on the sphere, right? On the sphere.

Okay. Yeah. With the mummies, again, you know, they're definitely, in my opinion, not assembled. Like, I think that's a ridiculous position to say that these are assembled. They represent some kind of new species or genetic experiment, or maybe they are ETs. I don't know, but they're definitely not assembled. And if they are assembled, then someone needs to explain to me how grave robbers in Peru have access to classified technology that allows them to create these harmonious specimens combining different species,

when we can't even do a face transplant that doesn't look monstrous. right so um what was what was the reaction behind the scenes kind of like you know it may be in a private moment as much as you can give an outlook on that with like dr greer and eric burleson when they were just kind of talking amongst themselves what was that reaction like when they got in front of these things greer was in like total uh science mode right like he was there on a mission to uh you know to make sure that like our scientific team could get the samples they needed in a mixture it was that the space was sterile and everything and he was interrogating all the scientists who were involved so he was just in total like

laser focus work mode we're here on a mission let's do it i look over at the congressman and he was just processing you know i'm not a mind reader you see the picture it's pretty funny but he seemed to be enjoying it And, but he had also gotten, he'd also got there a day before us. So he also had, um, spent time with the sphere and spent time with the scientists. And so he wasn't seeing the sphere for the first time when we were there. But he was seeing the mummies for the first time, you know. And, uh, yeah, it was, it was cool.

Incredible stuff. Um, again, you know, you're on the forefront, Michael. You've been in front of it. You've been, you've had a front row seat to these investigations into some of the big moments surrounding the mummies and the. sphere. So I'm really glad that we got to talk today. I hope that we can come back and revisit this when we

learn more about the results on the sphere and more scientists on the mummies. We can come back and do this again. I'd love to. This was awesome. Oh, absolutely. Before we go, just plug what's going on? What's going on with you? I know we talk so much about all these investigations, but you're working on. I know you're working on a ton

of projects and you have a lot of things out right now. So we got I got a few movies coming out this year. We We had kind of an editing backlog, so everything's coming out at the same time. So I got, this is not a hoax, which is all about the mummies, and we go on, it's like an adventure dock. We go to Mexico. We go to Peru.

We go to, you know, we go out to NASCA. You see me puking my brains out in the plane flying over the NASCA lines. It's a lot of fun. It wasn't fun for me. But it'll be fun for everybody else to see that. So that's coming out in a few months. currently in production on the briefing, which is a new documentary with Dr. Greer.

And so we have this whole international leg of the production, you know, where, you know, we go to Mexico and you get to see behind the scenes of all this stuff with Dr. Greer and Congressman Burleson and Jaime, and we've got some really amazing footage. So that'll be cool. And then I've got another film

that hasn't been announced yet, but I guess I can mention it here. It's called Occam's Razor, and we've got some amazing, amazing witnesses, and that's all about UFO black ops, right? So the tagline is UFO black ops and the war on consciousness.

So it's all about how this reverse-engineered UFO technology has been hijacked and weaponized and is used to terror. rise people and used for drug smuggling, human trafficking, the P3 program, and all that stuff. So that'll be a fun one for the whole family. And so everything's going to be out later this year. Awesome. Incredible.

Where can people follow you and find all this stuff? I am only on, I'm only on Twitter or X now at Brokeback UFO. I will eventually figure out Instagram like I need another social media addiction but right now I'm just on Twitter. Fair enough. I spend a lot of my time on there as well so it's all good. Michael Mazzola, this has been highly fascinating.

I really enjoy this. I hope you have two and I hope we get to talk again soon about all this. This was great. Thank you, Stephen. This was a lot of fun. Awesome. Thanks a lot right here on UAP. Well, thanks again to Michael for doing that, for spending so much time. Actually for, I guess the interest of full disclosure, as I like to say sometimes, we originally plan on doing it for 40 minutes. And that always happens. I mean, I always say this.

I always say, oh, we originally planned on this because, I mean, it's true. I always say to whoever I'm talking to, I want to be respectful with their time. So I always say, you know, how much time do you have? And it's usually about 40, 45 minutes. And then we end up talking for an hour or an hour and 15 minutes. And it just, I'm thankful. I'm very grateful for that. that's whoever I end up speaking to, it just becomes a very comfortable situation and they feel

comfortable enough with even, you know, extending and cutting into other things that they had to do that day. And that's exactly what Michael did. And we actually ended up speaking just off camera, off recording candidly for about 20 minutes afterwards after we were done talking officially for the show. And he is an awesome guy. And I really look forward to have him on again in the future, especially when those test results come back for the sphere. And as a lot of more results and more testing is done on the mummies. I will absolutely have him back on because I have a feeling that his job is not done when it comes to being front and center with those two things.

And really cool to get the behind the scenes with Congressman Burleson, behind the scenes with Dr. Greer, how that all came together. It's just really fascinating stuff. And we've talked about the possible fiber optics inside the sphere, you know, how like the press conference was crashed when it came to the mummies, just all these different little things that he was able to shed some light on. And I'm telling you, whether or not it's true, whether or not there is a there, as some people like to say, if it's alien bodies, if it's an alien probe when it comes to the sphere, this orb out of Columbia, I don't know, but something's

going on. Something is strange to the point where you have people who are actively trying to stop the investigations. And that's... usually brings more attention to something. So I'm going to continue to keep an eye on all these things. Whatever comes from it, whether it ends up being, you know, something that is easily explainable through testing or if we find out that, wow, this is this is the real deal. One way or another, all continue to look into it and update you as we go on with it. But really, really fun conversation.

I really enjoy that and I really hope you did as well. But other than that, I do have some more things. on the back burner, kind of cooking for next week and throughout the month of July here on UAP. And as I announced last week, you even put out the trailer, UAP Investigates is also still in the works and should be coming out soon. So that 10 episode series, when that comes out, I will let you know when we have the release date for that. But just to let you know, that is absolutely still in the works. It's actually still in production. I'm probably a few weeks away from completing that just to kind of put that out front.

But as soon as I have the release date, we'll be good to go. And I can't wait for you to hear UAP Investigates because I've put a lot into that to hopefully shed some light and bring some new perspectives on the anomalous health incidences connected with UFO contact. So UAP investigates still coming out later on. And so much more to come right here on regular old UAP. Four years later. How do you like that? Happy anniversary again. Thanks for sticking around for four years here.

me on UAP and again here's to another year so we can say a year from now happy anniversary for five I really look forward to that hopefully we can make it so stay up to date stay current follow along on social media YouTube at UA podcast TikTok and Twitter at UA Podcast 850 and email if you like to reach out to me by the way on any of those channels feel free through messaging there or if you want to send me email it's S-Dieneru-U-A-P at gmail.com that's S-D-I-E-N-E-R-E-R-E-R UAP at gmail.com. You could also look forward to a new

Greatest Hits episode that I'll put out something that, you know, I'll dig up from the past that I think is worthy to come back out for the Fourth of July holiday. I'll get out a greatest hits episode there. Something for us to look back on as well here on UAP. But then, of course, next week, a lot of great stuff coming up. So can't wait to do it all again. Until then,

it is Stephen Deanor here saying, thank you for everything. Thank you for this past four years. Can't wait to do some more here with you on UAP. So until that time, be well. Thanks so much. We'll talk again soon right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast. Thanks.