UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 143 New Congressional Revelations with Rep. Eric Burlison

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

How many UFOs are actually US tech? Who are the people behind the scenes blocking disclosure? Are witnesses actually being killed over this secret? These are just some of the questions that are brought up during this episode of UAP as Stephen Diener sits down for a long ranging and in depth conversation with Transparency Task Force member and Missouri Congressman, Eric Burlison. Much is revealed...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Everybody talked about it since I first moved to Oregon. The big one, the earthquake that trashed the whole West Coast, total destruction. Officially calling it the largest natural disaster in American history. I just didn't know what would help me next. So I took it all. Even the gun. It was time. Cello?

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And that's why Southern California businesses rely on Guardian HR. They're local in L.A. And they understand this community and they help you stay compliant to avoid costly missteps. You get accurate payroll software and a real HR expert who keep. you ahead of issues. Get your Southern California business protected at GuardianHR.com. Yes, welcome back into UAP. Stephen Dean. We're back with you here for episode number 143 of the Unidentified Alien Podcast. I'm really excited to bring this one to you today because I was really hoping to be

able to bring it back onto the show. And while luckily that worked out, Representative Eric Burleson from Missouri, congressional member and member of the Transparency Task Force, back on the show here today to talk about everything he's learned recently when it comes to his investigations into the world of UFOs and government secrets and secret technology. And I got to tell you, there is so much in here that I can't even begin to start to go over with you as far as like, you know, here's what to expect type thing. I might just have to go right into this because it's going to take me too long to even explain everything to you, honestly.

I don't want to take up any more time from what this is because we actually got to speak for an hour, which was great. And I really appreciate Eric's time and to spend all that time here on the show because in the past, and the other two times I've had him on, it was a rigid schedule because it's during session, it's during the workday in Congress and only had maybe about 20 at the most 30 minutes to have those discussions that we've had in the past. But this time they're out of session, Fourth of July holiday, a little break after everything they've been doing over there. And we got to sit down for an hour. And it was fantastic because we covered so much from David Grush to new hearings with new names and new witnesses that they hope to bring out soon. I mean, just an incredible amount of information here from Eric Burleson.

The technology, whose is it? As far as a Tick-Tac, we do get into the Tick-Tac. We get into the NASCAR mummies. all these different things that have been going on over the past few months, I'm able to sit down and just go in depth with Eric Burleson on. So I'm just going to leave it at that. I'm going to bring it all to you right now. Sit back, take it all in, listen to it twice if you need to,

because there's a lot in here. And I'll come back with some afterthoughts after we're done with the interview. So right now, myself, with Eric Burleson on UAP. A lot of stuff in here. So enjoy. Well, happy to welcome him back here to UAP. it's Representative Eric Burleson. Eric, thanks so much for coming back on here at UAP.

I know there's a lot to cover, so I appreciate you coming back on. Yeah, you do a good job, Stephen. I appreciate that. Thank you. And, well, I guess I'll just jump right in and talk about someone that's, I know you just were with recently in Mexico and someone that I just had on the show, Michael Mazzola, who is a filmmaker, director, writer, producer, and I know you guys run across each other in Mexico recently,

as you met up with Dr. Stephen Greer and Jaime Malson to kind of see for yourself the couple of controversial items, the NASCAR Mammies and the Buga Sphere, which comes from Colombia. So on that end, that fascinated me when I saw those videos come out from Michael. I was like, holy cow, Eric is in Mexico looking at these things. I've been wanting to ask you, what was your impression when you got in front of the NASCAR Mammies and the sphere? if you can talk on both a little bit separately?

Yeah, so I would say leading up to that, that it was kind of a debate as to whether or not it would be a worthwhile trip. The, you know, and I kind of gauged a lot of input from different individuals now. As you know, I have Grush as a consultant on my team. He was, he really didn't. The sphere was kind of a puzzle to him. He thought it was probably, I won't put words in his mouth, but he didn't have much to say about the sphere,

and probably thought it wasn't worthwhile going down to see that. What he did say is that if the mummies were the tridactals that were the larger ones, that it would be worth seeing, now say that in general, he cautioned me about some of the people going down in their credibility. And so I understand that. But at the end of the day, I was at a situation where I had the opportunity to go because Michael had reached out to me. I learned that there was a team of scientists that contract with NASA

that were also going to be there. And one individual that is a former employee of NASA that was going to be down there. And that gave a little bit of credibility to me. and I wanted to see that in action to see the samples being taken. And so that's why I went. I mean, that along with the fact that we were out of session, we were, we weren't, I had a day and a half or so in my schedule to make it work. And so it just seemed, the stars aligned.

And that's why I went. So once you were done with it, what were you thinking to yourself? Did you feel like, okay, I'm glad I went. That was worth a trip? was the thought, I don't know if that was something I, you know, maybe should have spent time on. I would say spending time with Jaime Massan, his team, spending time, you know, with the people that were there, was worthwhile. The, I would say, I'm very skeptical that the Buga sphere is real. I'm very skeptical that those, the mummies that we saw are, are real. But I'm also open to

to wait until I hear back from the scientists who took the samples. They took samples from the mummies, from bones from the mummies, and then they took samples from the sphere in multiple places. So we'll see. Now, at first glance, they both look handmade. They both do not look. There's nothing about that that makes me think this was, this had to have been made by a superior.

advanced to civilization. It looks definitely handmade in those aspects. So in reference to the sphere, as far as the mummies, they just didn't look anatomically like those things could have possibly been a living creature. And so because of that, I'm, you know, I'm highly suspicious, but I'm waiting until we get some results from the scientists. Yeah, that's really interesting. You mentioned Grush, you know, how you kind of consulted with him on those two things.

It doesn't sound, again, not to put words in his mouth, but just reading the situation. It doesn't sound like he's too convinced about the sphere, maybe on the same age as you, when it comes to the possibilities of the sphere. But was he a little bit more intrigued by the NASCAR mummies themselves where he thinks that that's a possibility of those things actually, you know, representing a mummified non-human? Now, what he indicated is that there's a different set of mummies that are, I believe, in Peru, that he said are very intriguing. Right. Okay. Interesting. Well, I appreciate your perspective on those for sure. What was the experience like? I'm curious. I'm not trying to get you in trouble here. But what was the experience like meeting with Dr. Greer? Because there's so much that has said about him. And this goes for a few people. I'm not just trying to. singing a lot, Dr. Greer, but he is one of those people where there's so much said about him, super positive, super negative, some in the middle. Was that the first time you met? You had kind of

like a meeting with him? And what was your impressions of him? I've had a meeting with him in my office before that. I find him to be intense. I find him to be earnest. I find him to be, you know, he's very passionate and throws, you know, a great deal of his time, money. energy towards this topic. And so the reason why someone, you have to ask a question, why is someone who is not from the Pentagon, who is not connected to the intelligence community, how does someone like Kim end up in the situation that he is where he is, he's one of the key individuals when it comes to this topic? It's because he's extremely intelligent and he's very driven on this topic. And so that that combination is, it's, it's, it's impressive.

Now, you recently made some news, and that was one of the things you made news on. Another part was what you had to say recently in a Twitter space, I believe, actually, where it came across about David Grush and what he has told you as far as what President Trump has been briefed on in the past. Now, I know there was some distinction here that's, you know, you were trying to impart in everybody that Grush is not the one that briefed Trump, but he was told about what Trump was briefed. And it had to do with the different beings that have been around. Is that right?

Right. And I would say definitively Grush did not, was not the one that briefed Trump. And I don't know if I recall that Grush was the one that told me. I've talked to so many people, but I have been told. I can say is I have been told about a briefing in that that Trump in his first administration was briefed towards the end of his first administration. What I was told is that he was briefed about several things, the entire program, but what was an interesting part of the conversation was that when he was told that there are

hybrids, some of them may be living in the United States. he jokingly asked is Adam Schiff, one of them. That sounds like a Trumpism. I mean, I'm not going to lie. That sounds like something that would have happened in a briefing. And so, yeah, I don't know to, you know, I wasn't there. I don't have definitive evidence that that briefing happened. I'm just telling, I'm just relaying to you what I have heard.

It is interesting, though, to kind of put the puzzle pieces together, which I just tend to do sometimes. It leads me nowhere. Sometimes maybe it's something. So I wonder, Eric, do you think I'm trying to connect too many dots? And this is just me observing things, and I might be way out of line here. But I just think back to when Trump had an interview with Joe Rogan right before he won his second term. And Rogan was asking him about, you know, what do you know about the aliens have you been told? And Trump kind of, you know, shoulders were slumped and a little bit body language.

wise anyway, it seemed a little bit somber in answering, yeah, I've been told some different things. Do you think that had anything to do with what we're being told here about what he was briefed on in his first term? It could be. It could be. I mean, if that's true, then certainly his response, he's processing how much he can say and what he wants to say. What do you think about that possibility yourself, Eric, about the possibility of hybrids? Because, you know, this has been brought up a lot. I'm sure, has Grush spoken to you about this in the past, about, you know, specifically his take or his knowledge on hybrids? What I can say is like this phenomenon is a repeating phenomenon when it comes to this topic.

Whether it's some form of genetic insertion into humanity or there are hybrids that are occurring, it seems to be a common topic. And then often it commonly is connected to discussions about the Nephilim and the Bible and these hybrid beings that were created whenever the angels came down and procreated with human women. So look, it just is an ongoing conversation. It's intriguing. I can't definitively say this true because, again, I go back to I'm somebody that I want to see it from myself. So I've not seen anything direct. I've not seen direct evidence that this is true. Interesting. Can you talk about anything else? If there is anything else off the top of your head

that's happening during that briefing toward the end of Trump's first term, aside from, you know, talking about hybrids, was there anything of note that was given in that? No, not that I can recall. Okay. Hey, guys. So before we get back into the conversation, I just want to talk about something that affects all of us. And it's scary. Starting, something new, right? It's hard and it is kind of terrifying because you think about all the work that goes into it. Are you going to be able to succeed? What new challenges am I going to face? It's that uncertainty. But I know how that is because I can think back when I started UAP, I was just hoping for the best. And it's just like that when you're starting your own business. That's why

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Make a dinner reservation while we bring you to our island home. Hawaii starts here. Now, there was something that came out recently about the Tic Tac. It's commonly referred to. You know, that David Fravers saw and has been famously shown the video from the USS Nimitz back in 2004. And many people have claimed to see the Tick-Tac-type craft since then.

But now it's being talked about as something that was reverse, or possibly reverse engineered. Maybe I'm putting my own words in that. there from Lockheed in their skunk works operation. And this actually is a recent claim coming out from Ross Coldheart as well, where he's saying this is it. Like this is something that has been made. It's ours.

I know we talk about Dr. Stephen Greer. He's said this before. The Tick-TAC is ours. And I know you've heard some of those different things as well. Is that where we're at? Like, can we like, what's the percentage on that in your mind, Eric? That that is the case that the Tick-Tac is U.S. technology. Yeah, I think that it's.

likely the case. I think that it's more than likely the case. Now I had received when we first started researching this topic three years ago, I had received a random email from someone that my team brought to my attention who who mentioned that the TIPTAC is is a Lockheed Martin Skunk Works project. They mentioned the name in the email. They told us the name of the project. They told us where the projects is being conducted. There was a lot of specifics. We just kind of cataloged that and moved on. But since then, just even this year,

I've had an individual come to me that claims to have footage, photos of the TicTAC, and the different iterations of that Tick-Tac. And claims that, you know, that this is, that it's clearly not, man-made and it's likely made by Lockheed Martin. So I'm getting consistently, it seems that that is the narrative that's coming out. I mean, the implications of that are incredible.

I mean, when you talk about if that is the case, if that is something that can really be shown to be true, I mean, that opens up a whole can of worms, Eric. I mean, we're talking about the reality that there is this, indeed, as many people have speculated and theorized secret technology that's being developed by, you know, contractors and things like, you know, companies like Skunk Works that are being hidden from the general public. I mean, what are the implications in Congress? Isn't it obvious that there is technology? I mean, it's obvious that they're going to have technology that they've developed that is being hidden. Sure. That's part of our national secrets and our security and our defense. The question is to what

what level of technological advances have they made? What kind of breakthrough technology have they discovered a breakthrough technology that they are keeping under lock and key? I was when I was trying to leave Reagan a couple of weeks ago, and I was trying to go to my friend Timothy Alvarino's conference at the NFCON in Montana. And as I sat on the tarmac of Reagan for about three and a half hours, not moving, waiting for weather delays, and just being stuck in this can like a sardine, sweating.

It's the worst. And then having ultimately pulled back to the gate and having our flight cancel. After going through that torture, I thought to myself, if Lockheed or whomever has this breakthrough technology and they're not sharing it with the world, I'm going to be really pissed. it's a good point right i mean that's a real life experience right like we've all been there we've all sat on that tarmac we've all had the flight delays and you think to yourself man i wish i can just teleport somewhere and then you have to start to think to yourself well maybe we can and we just haven't been told that we can and i i mean that's got to be something like what what does that mean

in the big picture right because we can all make that leap we can make that assumption that of course you know there is stuff being worked down behind the scenes you know the the sr 71 Blackbird was worked on 60 years ago, maybe 70 years ago. And it was decades before we even knew it existed. So is the Tick-Tac something like that? And if so, what would that mean for technology that this thing that essentially doesn't have any means of visible propulsion could be out there? Stephen, don't you want to believe that that's the case? I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, it would be logical that it's how many years did it take before the SR,

71 was revealed. How many years before the F17 or the B2, all of these planes, I mean, how they all were kept under, under, you know, locking key for quite some time. Only when they had to reveal them did they do that. And I look, the B2 is decades old, right? Yeah. And the stealth bomber is decades old. So one can only hope and pray that we have made. advancements since then. And my question is I hope that eventually those advancements make their way to the private sector. Yeah. And on that note, and this is something that, you know, or the commercial use. Right. Exactly right. And that's where it kind of becomes contentious sometimes on, oh, look, it's social media. A lot of things become contentious. But when it comes to, you know, what's being kept under wraps, who has, who has a responsibility to think, Eric, to say, you know what, enough's enough, we got to get some of the stuff out to the general public. Like there's so much that we've made in the past, say, 40 years, you know, or if you want to boil it down to 20 years, that's fine too.

That would advance human civilization so much that we got at least put out maybe 10% of it. Like, whose responsibility is that to ultimately make that call? Yeah, that's a good question. I don't know who has that responsibility. A lot of these things are being decided by the, the White House. So a lot of these special access programs are under the purview directly under the supervision of the White House. And so we'll see. Part of the, I will say, and this is kind of breaking news a little bit, but just as a sidebar discussion, not as part of the negotiations,

but just being in the room and talking with White House officials, I made a request for myself and Tim Burchett and Anna and the rest of the UAP caucus to get a tour of Area 51, of right Patterson, of, and then get a full briefing of from the White House on their special access programs related to UAP. And so one of those has been somewhat greenlit and I'm still waiting to hear back from the others. Wow. Okay. So, yeah, that's new.

Have there ever been, I'm trying to think of a scenario where there's been Congress and congressmen who have gotten tours of those bases before like inside the halls of area 51 has that happened before i i'm not sure it certainly has not been public that that's happened i have a feeling i think if you're on house intel or or house armed services or senate arm services or senate intel you probably i would i would be shocked if those chairman and chairwomen have been able to get access. But that's my assumption is that at least some members of Congress have had some access. Well, that's great.

I mean, good on you for putting in that request. You know, definitely keep us updated on that. If you can, if you do get those, you know, requests met and you do get to kind of go in there, maybe you can at least tell us if you got to go, you know, obviously you probably wouldn't be able to say what you saw. What would you expect to see, I guess, if you were able to go through, you know, the inner hole, the inner sanctums of right pad or area if you want so for example you know when you Tim Phillips recently the the gentleman who left Arrow he's had a few interviews that were kind of intriguing to me and sparked a little bit but let me back let me start by saying in his

interviews he said that he went to to a particular site and was able to see the you know a particular project and development and the in the previous iterations of it and the way in which he described it would seem like a museum of some experiments and some some advanced technology. I want to see that. I want to see that that would give up me an idea that whenever, if that's true, I certainly want to be able to understand when people make sightings and see things, to be able to have an entire category of things that I can reference to and dismiss. at least that kind of may close off one of the one path one of the things that he said that was

concerning to me is that he was willing or he had requested and that the that the individual that was responsible for the special access programs related to uap's was willing to give a briefing to the uap caucus and that that at that which we did have a scheduled briefing and we did have a briefing with Arrow but at that briefing was extremely disappointing because we didn't really get much information and but what we what he said in his interviews is with with uh what is green steve green street or green blat whatever his name is yeah him and and another another individual he's tim phillips said that he had what that that briefing was blocked by by house leadership. So we reached, I reached out to the speaker, Anna Palina Luna and I and Tim Burchett

directly confronted the speaker about this or asked him about this on the, on the floor. And he had no idea what we were talking about. He texted me later that he had his team look into it. And it, and it appears, this is not from the speaker, but he, his, what he said to me was vague enough to indicate that it appears that we were blocked by one of the chairman of either Intel or House Armed Services. And so I'm going to pursue that briefing to be done because now we have a new chairman of House Intel. The previous chairman was somewhat hostile to disclosure on this topic. And so hopefully we're able to get a different answer from this new chairman. Wow, that's really big. And, you know, I was actually going to ask you about that.

And so on that note, I mean, how has the stonewalling, what kind of stonewalling have you experienced from your colleagues? You know, and I mean no offense if I say the wrong name, but someone like James Comer has come up. Have you experienced something like that with James Comer in the past? You know, Jamie Comer has been extremely helpful. He's not, I mean, his attitude is he will try to get whatever animal, you know, is asking for. He doesn't seem, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's been extremely helpful. I think that where we've seen things blocked is kind of in the dark, um, inner

workings of government bureaucracy. And so what we, I think what we have to continue to do is to pin down where the pinch point is and put pressure on that until we can get, until we can move the ball forward. That's super interesting, Eric. and especially to hear the perspective of Speaker Johnson, Mike Johnson, where he's like, I don't know, but I'll help you look into it. I find that really interesting because he's someone also, and it sounds like maybe these guys have gotten a bad rap with Mike Johnson and James Comer, respectively, that they have been stonewalling the process, but it sounds like from you that that's not the case at all,

that it's actually been some other people, and they're actually trying to help you advance to find out who those people are. Yeah, that's what I've been told. That's where I think is the logical place is that we were blocked by one of the chairman of either House Armed Services or Intel. That being said, everybody's politicians and you don't know that you can trust anybody, really. I was going to ask you that again. I didn't want to offend anything, but, I mean, do you find it hard to trust some of your colleagues? I know that might be an inappropriate question, but I got to ask it anyway.

Yeah, and I think that at the end of the day, also don't ever underestimate a couple of things. Ignorance and don't ever underestimate or effort, lack of effort when it comes to your government and to politicians. Right. So a lot of the things where we let people down is really due to a lack of willingness or effort. unfortunately. What do you think that the crux of the stonewalling is, Eric? And this is just my assumption that I'm going to throw out there as part of the question. So you can take it whichever way you want and say yes or no.

But the way I've always seen this is that it really just comes down to power and money when we're talking about politics mixed with government contractors. What I mean by that is different representatives who might be in the same district as a right pat or as an area 51. might have, you know, sweetheart deals with some of these contractors to say, hey, you know what? Let's keep this under wraps. You're in our district. We want to make sure that these things don't get out.

Am I off based by saying that as to why some of this stuff is stonewalled or am I on to something? Yeah. I mean, just it's logic and common sense that the politicians like to do, like to work alongside lobbyists and K-street. and special interests. Politicians also like to trade in intelligence. I mean, ironically, the intelligence committee is a committee that you don't raise hardly any money being on that committee, but yet people want to be on that committee because information is power.

And so, and I think that to that extent, if everyone has that information, then it's not powerful. So I think that I think some people who were in Intel, particularly the previous Intel chairman, probably didn't want anybody to know because that reduces the power of those who do have the knowledge of it. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Death Wish Coffee, Brooke Linnon, and Kylie. But what if people haven't heard about your brand? Well, Shopify helps you find your customers with easy-to-run email and social media campaigns. But what if you hit that wall and you get stuck somewhere? Well, no problem, because Shopify is always around to share advice with their reward-winning 24-7 customer support.

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Either way, Sling lets you watch the playoffs your way with no long-term contracts. Learn more at sling.com. Do you think we're at a point where President Trump is kind of caught in the middle? Or do you think he has his mind? hard to say because everybody's going all different ways. Or do you think there's, he's kind of set in one way? And the reason I ask that is because

he has set on a couple of occasions and it's made, you know, made its way around social media. The clips have been taken where he says, we have things, we have weapons that no one can even imagine and we'll use them if we have to. Do you think he's being boisterous?

Or do you think he's referring to things like the technology that's used in the Tic Tac and who knows what else? Yeah, I do think we probably have advanced weapons. I do think where we have a shortfall is the ability to manufacture things at scale. I mean, the real security vulnerability in the United States is that we have a situation where our manufacturing base has moved out of the country and we are relying on other countries to manufacture some of the things that we need. And so it's been said that if we go, if we were to have to go to war with China, we would run out of things to throw at China after a couple of months.

And China would manufacture themselves into a victory. So we've got to reverse that. And so which is why as the chairman of energy, economic growth and regulatory reform, those are the things that I'm focused on is trying to bolster our manufacturing sector, get us back to. to a place of dominance in the economy and making sure that whatever technological advances that we've made, we were able to manufacture that. Yeah, at scale, right, and that's really important and good on you for doing that.

With that in mind, is it, you know, when we talk about some of this technology that's out there, I have to ask it because David Grush has alluded to this before, are you at a point where you feel like the technology that is out there, Tick-Tac or otherwise, has been made by just really, really smart people like, you know, Oppenheimer Trinity test type thing? Or is it a mix of that plus reverse engineering from, you know, advanced technology that's been recovered from other world beings? Yeah. I mean, I'll leave the door open about the reverse engineering, whether that's been occurring.

But I think that the most likely scenario is that it's just the progression of, our technology that's being that's been advanced over time. Do you think that's most of what people see, Eric, just, you know, theorizing is that most of what people see where they can't explain it and they say, well, I saw UFO, it was moving at unbelievable speed, instantaneous acceleration or it was hovering and then it just took off. Like, do you think it's mostly human technology and some alien stuff mixed in? Yeah, even when you talk to, when you saw the interviews, for example, of Jacob Barber, when I, when I talk with Grush, when I talk with other people who study the UFO technology,

a phenomenon, they will consistently say that the vast, vast, vast majority of things, including Arrow, when they kind of run to ground the thousands of reports that they've had, the thousands of things that they've investigated when they run them to ground, it's mostly somewhat man, it's man-made things or phenomenon that are mistaken as a UFO. So I think that that's the case. Fascinating. Now what Grush, what Barber, what others would say, including Lou, is that there are those rare moments when something extraterrestrial or non-human intelligence is encountered and that that does exist. So a lot of them, obviously Lou has come up with a book about it, about the reverse engineering.

Grush has said the same thing. So I just have yet to be able to get any of the evidence or documents or proof that they were, that they had in their possession in their official capacity. That's fascinating. I look forward to you getting that proof because, man, when some of that stuff comes out definitively, it's a game changer. I think we could probably agree on that. You talked about Tim Phillips earlier when you speak about.

Arrow. Another name that comes up is Sean Kirkpatrick. And I think you were quoted earlier, and maybe a few weeks ago, is talking about Sean Kirkpatrick saying in relation to the Wall Street Journal article, which has been, you know, highly documented at this point. I think everybody kind of knows what was that, what that was all about, kind of saying that everything was a sciop, and that, you know, there is no aliens and it's all just government technology. And you you had said or kind of alluded to the fact that, well, if that is the case, then is the Air Force kind of compromised when it comes to the legalities of things that they weren't disclosing some things and that they have been using, you know,

taxpayer money without kind of disclosing some of these things to Congress? Is that something that is, do you think is going to be looked into on your end? On my end, yeah. I'm going to definitely try to look into seeing. if there's been violations of law. Look, even if it isn't against the law, it should be against the law to create a misinformation campaign to cause the American people to go down a wild goose chase

and spend all kinds of time, money and energy to have members of Congress investigate something because not because it's naturally happened, but because you stoke the flames, I think that there certainly should be some, level of I think we need to investigate that and and determine if a law has been broken. And if not,

maybe we need to make a law. Really interesting. When it comes to someone like a Sean Kirkpatrick, what kind of dealings did you have with him before? Did you, did you ever get to sit down with him in when he was in his capacity there with Arrow? Yeah, a couple times had meetings with him. I thought that he was, I think that he seemed defeated.

Him and the Arrow team at that point seemed defeated in their investigation. And they had come to the resolution. And if you can imagine, you investigate hundreds and then thousands of cases in each and every time. It turns out that it's something manmade or some, that some phenomenon has been mistaken as a UAP. at some point you're going to get blackpilled. You're going to start thinking, well, this is pointless. This isn't true. And I felt like that they had reached that point.

Now, I will say this, to their credit, we in the UFO community have to ask ourselves, what is our moment? And I think that my question to you and your listeners is what would it take? If this is not a true phenomenon, If it's not extraterrestrial, this was a hoax, what would it take when you kind of throw the ball in

or throw the towel in and say, yeah, it's probably not real? Because otherwise we will be in this chase for eternity, right? Chasing something that may or may not exist. If you, until you have to know 100% of everything to determine whether it's real, right? if it's somewhere out there. In other words, if you're looking for the needle in haystack,

you've got to look at every strand of hay. But are you at that place where you ask yourself, what percentage of the strands of hay are you, do you find acceptable to look at, or do you want to look at 100% of them? So I think that to that point, I think Kerpatrick and the Arrow team at that point in time had come to the conclusion because they looked at so many things

and had come to the conclusion that they were not non-human intelligence that they kind of became defeatist. Now the new director, I think, is he's got some, he's got some energy. He's open about the topic. I think he brings a new level of energy to the to Arrow. And so I'm excited about that. Now, I think that Arrow was not looking in particular. So Grush, whenever Grush and I met with Arrow, it was interesting to watch that meeting because Arrow

is supposed to be the experts, but they were devouring the information that Grush was telling them, as though they'd never heard it before. So Grush has clearly has investigated this topic a lot more than Arrow has. That's wild. Do you ever see a scenario, and not to put anybody down, but do you ever see a scenario where Grush might end up being the head of error one day? That would be ideal.

That would really be ideal. But Grush working for me right now, we are focused on getting the right people for the next hearing. We're also focused on getting some laws that we're going to put in place. I think on the Senate side, Senator Rounds has some language that's similar to what. Chuck Schumer had put in. And we're looking at putting that language in on the House side of the National Defense Authorization Act. So we're definitely pursuing this. And the language that we're looking to put in place is similar to the JFK disclosure files.

And for people that, and I myself was concerned about the similarities, because we have up until today been still waiting on JFK files. But what I will point out is that there's a lot of documents that have been released by the CIA that the CIA did not want to release about JFK. But it was because of the Disclosure Act, they had to. And so that gives me some level of comfort that when it comes to this phenomenon, this UAP topic, that if there are documents that the Deep State doesn't want to release, that this language is going to compel them to have to release it at a certain point. And so that's why I think that it's a good model to follow. We may look at trying to accelerate the timeline from what the JFK files were, because look, it shouldn't take 60, 70 years to learn this information.

But going back to the JFK thing, for example, that there are documents about that kind of really point the finger at the CIA's knowledge about Lee Harvey Oswald, knowledge about his comings and goings and communications that the CIA denied. And there were three individuals, you know, directors or otherwise at the CIA that lied to the Warren Commission and to Congress about their knowledge of Lee Harvey Oswald. And that all came out in the 2017 disclosures as well as the recent disclosures. Yeah, it's a good point. Right. I mean, even up until like this past weekend, some of that stuff coming out about interactions with CIA agents and Lee Harvey Oswald beforehand makes you wonder about, you know,

what else could be out there. But that's really big that actually you mentioned that, that you guys, you and David Grush and members of the Transparency Task Force, it sounds like you're trying to get on the same page with Senator Rounds and trying to put this legislation, this wording into the new Defense Authorization Act. So do you feel like that's something, are you confident in that? Because I know last time it kind of got ripped apart.

So, I mean, do you feel like it's something that's going to be able to be put through this time and actually move some of the stuff forward? That would be pretty big. Yeah. So I think that it was stripped out by, you know, I think this is famous, you know, everyone knows this now, but by,

by the intelligence chairman, the previous intelligence chairman, fought to have that language stripped out. Is that Mike Turner, I believe? Yes. Yeah. And so I think that he's no longer in that role to Johnson's credit. Johnson eventually stood up to Mike Turner and removed him from that committee. After a lot of them, in my opinion, abuses of power.

So, for example, when we were going through and reauthorizing FISA, there was some stunts, some antics that Chairman Turner did to try to create a, you know, some hysteria that that would that would force members to vote against at putting warrant requirements into the FISA bill. And so there were a lot of things like that, a lot of pressure that was placed on Speaker Johnson that was unwarranted. and I think that when the time came for deciding if Turner was going to keep his chairmanship and he didn't, that was a pretty good move by the speaker, in my opinion. Yeah, wow. So it's very, very interested to see how the new measure goes. Yeah, that's a big deal if you guys can get that through.

I want to ask you about something else that kind of came out within the past couple of days, and that is more news about the drones. We all remember what happened. We was referred to. Now, other people had different names for it, but it, drones was the accepted term when it came to what was happening over New Jersey and other parts of the Northeast during the holiday season in 24. I mentioned Ross Coldheart earlier. Again, I'm going to bring him up because he's come out and said within the past couple of days that he believes it was Chinese technology.

Now, he hasn't been the only one to say that. There's been other people in high-ranking positions who have said the same. If that's the case, that goes directly against what was said. I think it was Caroline Levitt's first press briefing, the press secretary for the Trump administration, where she said this was all FAA authorized. And even the Transportation Secretary, Sean Duffy, has said recently, you know what, we're still not sure what that was.

So there's three different messages here, Eric, it's Chinese technology that was authorized by the FAA, and we're not sure what it was. What do we believe about the drones all these months later? Yeah, I'm not sure what they were, but I can say that it's obvious to, It's obvious that they were not non-human made. I mean, they, why, or maybe aliens decided to mimic what we do to try to hide in plain sight as a drone.

I don't know. But at the end of the day, they looked in operated like conventional drone technology, whether it was China or hobbyists or, you know, Russia. Who knows or us? I don't know. What I do know is that we have got to get a handle on mitigating drones. We have got to get a handle on being able to bring them down at scale. I mean, I think I've seen technology where they're able to point a particular device at a drone and to bring it down. But it does not appear to be it does not appear to be able to take down a swarm of drone.

which is what I think is going to be necessary. I mean, if you think about it, the security risk of what happened, what Ukraine did in Russia, it really should change the way people look at warfare and change the way that we in Congress ought to look at keeping things secure. You look at what happened. They basically sent in, I think, in about four locations, semi-trucks that were packed with drones that had grenades on them or some form of explosive. And then they parked those semi-trucks somewhere near Air Force bases

and other places of interest. And then we're able to remotely launch them and carry out the mission. If you know, understanding that and that tactic and that phenomenon is really going to be, it changes the way that you view terrorism and security. war. And so we've got to be able to mitigate and be able to stop and take down any and all drones that are not supposed to be in an airspace. Yeah. And to your point, I mean, you know, this was, as you know, it was more than just, you know, flying over private residences. This was military bases in Langley, you know, in New Jersey, actually overwrite Pat in a couple of cases. And so, I mean,

this is something that's, as, you know, people like to make fun of it sometimes, you'd be like, Yeah, the drones. It was nothing. It was just a, you know, a couple of guys in their backyard. But the fact of the matter is, they're flying over military bases and they're flying over sensitive installations, including one of President Trump's, you know, locations in Bedminster. So, I mean, it's got to be something that is figured out. I mean, is there a sense of urgency in D.C. about these things? Or is it kind of like a backburner issue? No, I think that there is a sense of urgency because you're seeing that that was one of the key provisions of the big, beautiful bill was to put some some money.

in place for new military, you know, expenditures. And it's sad that we have to do that, that we can't just reform where we're sending money to today. But at the end of the day, a lot of the money that we send out gets gobbled up by some of the older programs, which is why we put in the big, beautiful bill, money that's gonna go towards, you know, these new advanced technologies, hypersonic

missiles, drones, and other things. And when you talk to people that are, you know, in housearm services, they're excited about companies like Endural, companies like Hadrian that are that are kind of at the forefront of this new type of manufacturing of drones and other things. There's a few more things I like to hit on with you here. If you have a few more minutes, is that okay? Yeah. All right, perfect.

That said, what is the big secret? And what I mean by that is recently, now there's always been a report to this, but again, recently there's reports of death threats to people within the agencies who want to talk about these things. It's kind of a twofold question. One, have you heard about some of those things from David Grush directly that he's heard of death threats from people who want to come out to talk about the technologies. And two, what is the big secret that prevents all this from coming out?

Is it just strictly advanced technology that we want to keep to ourselves away from adversaries? Or is there something more to it about other life? Which one is bigger? Yeah, I think that to some extent, the whistleblowers are afraid of losing their jobs. They're afraid of losing their security clearances. and they're afraid of prosecution. You know, David Grush is a good example. I mean, he's he's lost his benefits.

He's lost his retirement in stepping away from the military in order to be a whistleblower. He's given up a lot. And I think that, you know, he deserves to have that given back to him. And so, but that should not be the case for other whistleblower. that come forward. They shouldn't have to, they should not have to see him as an example of what their life is going to end up like. And, uh, in order, because it is definitely a chilling thing. Um, and so that I think there has been, David has talked about some people that, that have, um, that have passed and that, and questioned that, you know, the way in which they, they died and suspected that it might have their, their connection.

involvement with being a whistleblower. But we don't have anything definitive. I have sent referrals to an investigative team to investigate a particular death, and we're going to continue to do that. Wow. So there's one that actually is in your mind that you're thinking about now that was pretty suspicious, like suspicious enough for you to act on it. That's right.

Yeah. Wow. without compromising anything with it, can we talk about what that involved as far as the information that did come out or that was trying to come out? When? No, I don't have the details of that. Okay. But clearly something that was suspicious enough to look into where someone actually did die. Wow, that's startling.

And it could be unrelated, but we just don't know. There's enough suspicion that it needs to be investigated. And this person worked within the government and government programs. Wow. On that notes, has there been something that sticks out to you, aside from that, within the past, say, eight months? And I'm just going back, maybe nine months, going back to the November hearing, the last UAP hearing. Is there something that you've learned since then? Or something that has kind of piqued your interest since then that you never really would have thought of.

as a possibility that has really surprised you? I would say, I'll just be kind of candid, is that when the Wall Street Journal article came out, that was also at a time in which we were having a hard time getting Lou, we had just had the hearing where Lou had shown us a photo, and it was debunked before the end of the day. We were having trouble getting,

And I think Lou stepped away from the topic after that. I believe he did an interview with you afterwards. And I really appreciate the kind words that he said in that interview. And I think that he's a patriot. And I'll just kind of step back and say, I told Lou after that happened, I said, Lou, whenever you brought up that photo, you did not say this is definitively a UFO. You did what exactly what I would have wanted you to do. And I think the UAP community would have wanted, which is instead of sitting on it, you showed it and released it.

And instead, so the question is, my question to you and the UAP community is, which would you rather have? someone that sits on something for a long time and doesn't release it until they 100% know that it's accurate. And then sometimes may never release that image because you're never going to get maybe 100% certainty. Or do you want somebody to be completely transparent, which is what Lou was? And he said in the hearing, hey, I haven't been able to vet this. I just, I've received this photo from a friend of mine who's a pilot. But here is a photo that's very intriguing. It is what it is.

I didn't blame Lou. What was frustrating was the response from the UAP community where they basically ripped him apart online, causing him to kind of step away from the topic and take a break. And I don't blame him. I mean, the UAP community is schizophrenic. That's one thing I have learned is that the UAP community, is very, very hard to please any one faction.

There's a lot of factions. And my ask is that they give people a little bit of grace because in this circumstance, you caused one individual to kind of step away from the topic altogether. Some of you may say, good, we didn't like what he had to say, but at the end of the day,

I was discouraged at that moment. And discouraged about the fact that we were having a hard time getting people to come in and go into a skiff and talk at the same time as when the articles in the Wall Street Journal were coming out. There definitely was a moment where I thought, what am I doing here? Why do I keep, I mean, I've got other things to do.

I need to just move on. There may be a point where I just say, I'm not getting anywhere here. This has become a futile effort, and I just need to move on. on with my life. There's certainly those moments. I'm going to be completely honest and transparent about that. But I would also say it's folks like you and a lot of people that genuinely just want to get to the truth and have, you know, a desire for transparency that that inspires me to keep

to go forward. Well, I appreciate that. Personally, that means a lot. So, so thank you. And I'll keep doing my best and hopefully maybe one day we can figure something out together um but that's no that's that's a really interesting kind of inside look so i appreciate that candid look into the thought process that was going through during that time because that that was a very controversial you know kind of episode there and you know lou was was open about it when i brought him on the show as well and i could see just personally a human to human level how um i hate to use the word defeated but maybe deflated is the better word how deflated he truly was in that moment like you know dang you know damned if i do damned if i don't and like you said you know there are some people who are celebrating

that he's like they were like good get him out of here and there are other people like no you know we want to make sure you can keep coming back to do this so you know when stuff like that happens how hard is it to try to move forward with a skiff with it with a new skiff with you know a disclosure act in the NDAA with a new hearing trying to step a new hearing i mean is that a setback for you guys when stuff like that happens? It is. And it's also a setback that, you know, that definitely set us back. And we could because we had a bunch of series of hearings that were set up in one week.

It was going to basically be UAP week. And that really kind of rocked that entire week and made it really kind of reduce the impact of that. We did have some meetings that I thought were very productive, but it could have been a lot more productive. And it's because just because of what happened. And so I think that the, if the UAP community had not been so brutal online, if we probably would have had a better week. It's interesting. Now that we're a couple of months removed from that, is there something coming up in the future for you guys as far as the transparency task for us? So different skiffs that

You want to try to get out there in hearing dates? Yeah, we're going to be, we're pursuing a hearing date. We have got a list of people that we're looking at. We're actually looking at doing potentially two, one with some people that are direct whistleblowers, people that have had, when I say direct, they've had eyes directly on or have been, have it personally encountered UAP. In their formal operation, not not somebody. out and about like Joe Blow out there that saw something. There's lots of me thousands and thousands of people like that. Sure. I'm talking we're talking about people that worked for the Pentagon and worked in a government program where they worked in and around these this technology, whether it was

through crash retrieval or through reverse engineering. That's what we're pursuing right now. The next hearing after that is where we're going to, once we get, once we're able to get information, we're looking at doing some interrogatories, which is where you take some of the things that have been said in these briefings, and these hearings and these open hearings under oath. And then we send a letter, a formal letter as a committee asking for answers from, you know, whether it's Tulsi Gabbard or, you know, who it, who it, whomever it is that we need to be asking these questions of, and then which would set up the potential second hearing, which would hopefully be able to include people like Tulsi Gabbard to be able to come forward. And I've been told that she is very, she's a friendly when it comes to this topic that she wants disclosure. She wants to help bring about disclosure on this topic. Yeah, I was actually about to ask that. I know I'm probably overstaying my welcome here,

but it's just such an interesting conversation. It can't help but to keep asking questions. So feel free to just tell me to shut up at some point. But when you talk about that possibility of a second hearing, what is, I mean, could we actually see, because actually this came up when I spoke to Stephen Bassett, who I'm sure you're aware of there in D.C., he's a big disclosure advocate there.

Is that something that we could see a future where you do have a Tulsi Gabbard, Director of National Intelligence, where you do have, and maybe this is a pipe dream, but a John Ratcliffe, a CIA director, a Cash Patel, you know, in FBI or even Dan Bongino, as far as, you know, a deputy director. Are we talking about heads of agencies in a hearing to answer questions on UAP? Yeah, I mean, nothing's set in stone, but that has been, that's been one of the goals of the UAP or the, I'm sorry, the disclosure task force.

Wow, that would be quite the sight. When you talk about firsthand witnesses, are these names that people have never heard before that, you know, working in on these programs that are willing to come out and talk about it under oath? Would these be new names? Yeah, there will be there be some names that are that are not new and then some that are going to be new. Interesting. And these are like career, career people. They've, they've been working on these things for years. Yeah. I'll get you out of this on here, Eric. Is there a point where something happens, you find out something. You do go to Area 51 and go within the inner sanctums of Area 51 or Wright Patterson and go in the underground tunnels and whatnot. Or you find out

something in a skiff. Is there a point that you would see? Just for yourself where if you found out a piece of information that would actually stop you in your tracks and make you say, you know what, I kind of understand why this is a secret now. And you would actually stop pursuing it in a way to bring about open disclosure. Is there anything that would make you do that? No, at the end of the day, I do believe that the public deserves to know. I don't think that the topic of the existence of non-human intelligence is in the rightful hands of any government, period.

And so I will always pursue that disclosure. I would probably want to make sure that we protect our military secrets. and the things that we've got in our possession and our capabilities. But I do not think that the topic of non-human intelligence belongs to any government whatsoever. And so I will continue to pursue that. And I can, Stephen, look, if I have come to a moment where I'm convinced, you'll probably know. Right. You'll know.

Because the way in which I talk about the topic will change. Interesting. All right. Well, we'll keep an eye out for the clues or an ear out for the clues as well. Eric Burleson, thank you so much for all the time. I'm extremely generous with your time here today. And I hope that we can stay in touch and, you know, as things develop, maybe bring you back on when things pop up. Absolutely. Thank you.

You do a great job. I enjoy your podcast and I actually listen to it. So thank you for what you do. I appreciate it. Hopefully I can keep you as a listener and I don't scare you away. Eric Burleson, thanks so much coming on here at UAP. Anytime. When you fly with Hawaiian Airlines, the whole family enjoys free access to Starlink, the fastest Wi-Fi in the sky, thanks to T-Mobile.

Stream, scroll, message, and game while sipping a passion orange guava juice. Everyone stays entertained and your vacation gets a head start. Enjoy every moment of your trip, even before you land. Hawaii starts here. And thank you again so much to Eric Burleson for being so open. I mean, he was so candid. He was so open during that interview, you know, mentioning for the first time, he said, you know, a little bit of breaking news where he mentioned that he has put in the

request to go to Area 51. That would be incredible as well as, you know, to see kind of like the inner workings of Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. And it's something, isn't it? Because it's funny. After I did that interview and I went home and I was kind of processing everything we spoke about and what I was going to say here today before and after presenting the interview to you. I was actually talking to my wife last night and I said, you know, the interview with Eric

Burleson went really well. I think, you know, that there's a lot of good stuff in there. And I said, would you believe it? You know, he has to get permission to go to Area 51. And I started thinking about it. I'm like, it is pretty wild. You know, I get it, right? You need a different level of clearance to go, but it really just is, it's something to think about where a sitting congressional member is like barred from going to certain areas within the country. You need different levels of clearance as a member of Congress. You can't get in to a place like Area 51. You have to put in special requests.

So I'm like, I know on the surface, that sounds obvious. But when I really sat back and I thought about it, I was like, that is pretty wild. So I hope he gets to go. It was really cool to hear that. And another thing that really stuck with me, of course, aside from the TikTok conversation, I thought that was fascinating. The threats that whistleblower's face is absolutely startling. But again, I was really happy to hear how candid he was on that,

talking about looking into a suspicious death right now. Really disturbing, actually. So I hope it's not connected to anything. But the fact that they're looking into it, it kind of speaks volumes. I actually might try to do some more digging on my own time when it comes to the whistleblower threats portion of this discussion because it is unsettling. So I'll probably try to do some more digging on that with like, you know, one of the, my VPN that I use, you know, the virtual private networks.

They're great, by the way. I use ExpressVPN because it's fast. It's secure. And they're just, they make me feel comfortable, especially with ExpressVPN to be able to go on there and just kind of search things like that. And I have to worry about, okay, my being tracked with something like this, that's that sensitive when you're talking about whistleblower threats. So I think that's something that I'll try to do on my own time. And it's, it's, you know, scary stuff, though. There's no doubt about it.

But one of the things that really stuck with me was the prospect of having these dual hearings. You know, he spoke about bringing in new names along with the old names. He obviously didn't mention either facet of the old names or the new names of witnesses who would be on a congressional hearing on UAPs. But to hear that, the ultimate goal is to bring in agency heads. I mean, I know I said it during the conversation, but just to have that image where you have Tulsi Gabbard, Director of National Intelligence, Cash Patel, FBI, you know, John Radcliffe, CIA, and anybody else, you know, Department of Energy. I mean, there are so many people that could sit up there and discuss these things with Congress under oath. Could you imagine? I mean, the implications of something like that.

That's never happened before in the history of the country where you have a panel like that of agency heads under oath to discuss the UFO topics. So that would be, you know, everything else has been historic. That would be a different level. So again, so much to take away from that interview. A lot to process. I hope you enjoyed it. I know it was a little bit long about an hour, like I said, but I hope that was worth your time. and I think there was a lot of stuff in there that I hope,

I believe is going to resonate with a lot of people as this gets circulated more. So there you go. Eric Burleson on UAP, really thank him for that and for offering so much information here during this episode. Coming up on the show, how about Danny Sheehan?

Does that sound good to you? Would that excite you if I have Danny Sheehan on the show for the first time ever? And this has been in the works for probably a year, I'm being honest. I'm going to have Danny Sheehan on as a guest here on UAP. I've met him a couple of times, spoken to his reps, back and forth, never actually been able to nail down his schedule to have him on the show.

And finally, that's happening. So I'm thankful. I'm excited for you to hear Danny Sheehan here on UAP. We are going to go over a whole heck of a lot of stuff. So we go from Eric Burleson, maybe a greatest hits mixed in between. We'll see what happens in the next few days to Danny Sheehan coming up on the show right here. I cannot wait to present that to you. And I can't wait to tell you all about it.

So stick around, follow along on UAP. That's going to be a doozy. I hope I planned it to be anyway. Maybe we get some new revelations to that one as well, like we did here today. So be sure to follow along wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe, rate with those five stars. It's always very much appreciated. Spotify, Apple, Amazon, any of the big podcast.

channels on social media. Of course, I've mentioned it every single episode. So if you aren't already, and if you are, I apologize for saying the same thing over and over again. But that said, it's at UA Podcast 850 on Twitter and TikTok at UA Podcast 850. And on YouTube, it's at UAE podcast. Just solo there. Or so you can send me messages there or through email if you want to do it directly like

that. It's S.DENERUAP at gmail.com. S.Deneruap at Gmail. Thank you all for sticking around. It's been a wild ride here on UAP over the years, and it just keeps going. And it is cool here. It is cool to hear, I'm not going to lie. It's humbling to hear, you know, Eric, say those kind words about me and about the show.

And what I do here and that, you know, they find it valuable. He appreciates what I do, and he listens to the show and, you know, to have that candid moment where he's talking about, should I just give up on this? Is this a waste of time? you know, especially after the Lou Elizando episode. And, you know, he said a lot of people were down in the dumps after that. It delayed the process, which is also something that kind of stuck out to me. And then he started thinking about everything that I do and others do in this field.

And that kind of helps to keep them going. And I would never, ever, ever imagine that being the case. So to hear that come from Eric Burleson, a sitting member of Congress, someone who's on the transparency task force and investigating this stuff firsthand. To hear that's what I'm doing and what others are doing in this field is, actually making a difference for him and for so many other people, it's humbling to say the least. And I know I've gotten a lot of messages like that from you and from other listeners.

And I always appreciate that. So it's just, you know, to hear those affirmations are really something. So thank you to Eric. Thank you for all the kind words always and all the messages. And I'll just keep doing everything that I can to keep this going here on UAP. And we'll see what happens next in the future. So with all that said, It is Stephen Deener here saying thanks again for everything, for all the support.

You know it means the world to me, so thanks so much. Until next time, it's Stephen Deiner here saying, be well. Thanks so much. And we'll talk again soon right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast.