UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 149 Inside The Outside Perspective

Episode Date: August 8, 2025

What is the current state of the UAP conversation? How are those outside of the UFO community looking at this topic? Stephen Diener brings on radio legend, Tommy Mischke to get an outsiders perspective on how all of this is being viewed and talked about throughout everyday life. Plus, we learn some new information along the way...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Explore your options at Kingsley Manor. a nonprofit month-to-month senior community within the Front Porch family. Hey, welcome back in to UAP. Stephen Dean, we're back with you here. As always, on the Unidentified Alien Podcast episode number 149. We're flying through these, aren't we? So welcome back. Thanks for coming back, and I'm happy to have you for this new episode with a man,

you may not know, maybe, maybe you do, but you may not know his name right offhand, but his name is Tommy Mishki. And I was actually really excited. decided to have him on. And I'm going to tell you why, as I bring him in here today, because Tommy Mishke is someone who, well, actually considers himself an outsider when it comes to the UFO conversation. So Mishki himself, and he goes by his last name of Mishki, and you'll hear me say that as we begin, he's a radio legend.

So when it comes to the radio world, which I primarily come from before even doing UAP, you may have known some of my history. I've brought it up before in different interviews or different, you know, sprinkled in little episodes of UAP where I've spoken about my path and my journey and my history where radio is my full-time gig, if you will. And UAP was really just an extension of my radio career is how it started out. So when I get a chance to bring in a radio legend and a colleague, really, I wanted to jump on that, especially someone. who is outside of the conversation. And you'll hear me refer to Mishki as an outsider a couple of times. And that's not a derogatory term.

And he knew that. It's a way to paint the picture of that he's not someone that would normally kind of touch on the UFO topic. And that intrigued me. I was actually on his show a couple months ago. He asked me to come on. I said, absolutely. We ended up, I think it was one of the longest interviews he's ever done. He wanted to have me on for like 40 minutes and we spent an hour and a half together.

It was a lot of fun. We covered a lot of great topics in the UFO world. And I thought to myself, you know what? Because then we kept in touch and we said, why don't you come on my show and we'll get the perspective of a so-called outsider on the state of the UFO world, if you will, the UFO community, however you want to put it. And he said, absolutely, let's do it. Let's make it happen. And so I was happy to bring him on and had the design. discussion from that perspective. How are people seeing things from his side of the fence,

someone who is not entrenched in this like I am or like you might be? And I think it came out really great. So I'm looking forward to hearing this part, this kind of side of the discussion when it comes to this topic with myself and Tommy Mishke. And I got to tell you, one of the things I learned is don't assume because Mishke knew some stuff that I didn't even know about, especially a guy by the name of Ed Bell Bruno from Princeton University. You might know who that is offhand. I did not. Mishki has spoken to him at length.

And he's a really interesting dude who's had some incredible experiences, like close encounters, things like that when it comes to the UFO topic. So he tells me something I didn't know. So you never want to assume about a man named Edel Bruno from Princeton. He's a professor. So really interesting stuff. cool conversation that I think you're going to enjoy right here on UAP. And then stick around for some afterthoughts, some things to look forward to coming up in the future as well.

But for now, myself, with Tommy Mishke, right here on UAP. Enjoy. Tommy Mishki, Radio Legend. I hope he doesn't mind me calling him that joining us here today on UAP. Mishki, as he goes by in the radio world, thanks for joining us here on UAP. Really appreciate you coming on the show. Oh, I'm delighted to be here. Thanks for the invitation.

Yeah, absolutely. So first, before we get into the UFO and, you know, alien UAP talk, I do want to throw out there for everybody who isn't familiar and may not be familiar with what you've done in your radio career. You just throw that out there, let everybody know where you come from as kind of a, and this is why I think this is going to be such a fun conversation, as kind of like an outsider, if you will, in the UFO world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I got into radio in the early 1990s. and really never left. I mean, obviously, I have left now into the podcasting world, but so have all sorts of people who were formerly radio guys.

But for 22 years, I did radio, 22 straight years. And when podcasting became available, I switched into that gear and have just kept rolling. But my topics and my interests and my show, have been all over the place, all over the place. Everything from straight interviews to insane comedy, from commentary on the world. I've kind of operated with the idea of, what haven't I done yet?

Let's try that. And so people have had a tough time pigeonhole in me, and it's been really tricky describing my show. I know from my conversation with you, when you were on my show, that I felt as comfortable in your world, as I would have been any. And yet, I don't do a show on UAPs or UFOs.

I don't tackle that that often. I have, but no more often than any other topic. But I'm intensely interested in it, as I am in many things. Yeah, and that was a lot of fun, by the way. And if anybody didn't hear it, you can always find Miskie's show, where we get your podcast since that was a real, when I got to be on there with you, and again, imagine my surprise when you asked you to be a guest.

I'm like, yeah, absolutely, sure, let's do it. And it was just, I wasn't sure what to expect because, again, from the outside looking in, I was like, well, hey, you know, what's this going to be like? It was one of my most favorite conversations I think I've ever had covering the UFO topic because we covered so much. And I think we went longer than any other interview than you've ever done on your show in the past. So it was a lot of fun. Absolutely.

If I ever just found one topic, the topic you spend your career with makes the most sense to me out of everything. I think I told you on the day we spoke, it's the greatest story gone. So if you're going to focus on one story, why wouldn't you pick the greatest story going? Yeah, I agree, clearly. So with that in mind, what did lead you to kind of go more towards this conversation out of everything you talk about, you know, in pop culture in the world and whatever it might be, what kind of led you? What was the story? What was maybe something saw in the news? Maybe an interview that just kind of sparked that. interest for you where you said I need to talk about this more need to start looking into it.

I think the two biggest things happened when I was a kid. One of them was the Project Blue Book report and a report I did on that in grade school. So I'm a 12 year old kid doing something on Project Blue Book. And I'm I'm hearing these reports. And to me, they're instantly believable. I'm always fascinated by the immediate reaction of people to someone describing something that happened to them. And the people who go, well, I don't believe that. And the people who go, well, yeah, I believe that because you're telling me it. And you seem like a trustworthy individual. And you're not the first person to ever say this.

And I guess also I'll throw out, I didn't think of it as the strangest thing in the world. I don't think of these stories as impossible. I think of them as probable. I think of them as almost ridiculously obvious. I right away start my center of gravity is multiple people saying things who seem credible. I'm going to lean toward believing them, particularly when there's so little gain and so much downside to it. There's no financial gain to them. There's ridicule that's going to follow.

In some cases, they're going to be ostracized. Some cases, they're going to lose friends. In some cases, they're going to be laughing stocks of their small town. It simply isn't a smart play to go making up this stuff if you want to have an enjoyable life. So I started there as a kid, just hearing this and going, wow, extraordinary. I want to learn more about this. It was only later that I realized a lot of the world is incredulous. A lot of the world says, no way.

I always bring up the example of Thomas Jefferson sending Lewis and Clark to the Northwest. They just came back and said what they saw, and he didn't say, oh, come on, boys, you're goofing on me, aren't you? You said, all right, thank you for the report. Thank you for the report. That's where I am. I am on the page of thank you for the report. It's really interesting to think about it that way. Two things kind of struck me there that you bring up, one of it being using that analogy of the explorers.

So, you know, say Christopher Columbus, come here. across the Atlantic. He expected to find something. They'd never seen it. They didn't know if anything was there, but they expected to find something. So when you put it into like earthly terms, if you will, on that logical standpoint of view, and then when you talk about, well, why do we think of this as extreme? And, you know, it's so funny, I don't hear that a lot. It's, it's a really, I think a profound way to think about it of, well, why is that our perception that other life would be extreme, whether that life is interdimensional or subterranean or under the water or coming from outer space, whatever it might be, something that is non-human, that is

intelligent, is that really that extreme? And I think it's such a, a profound point of view that I haven't heard that much. Yeah. And, you know, if you grew up watching Star Trek, to me, that looked about right. If I was out traveling around space, I'd be running into, all these different cultures all over. I'd be running into different life forms. And some would be astoundingly unlike anything I'd ever seen. Some would be maybe something closer to what I knew. So I am an outsider.

I keep getting back in to see anything new, anything going on. And I have these different sources I like to go to where I like to hear what they're saying. And I have friends who are heavily into this and who are, extremely frustrated people right now. So it's not fun even sometimes talking to them because a lot of them are tired of the feet dragging in the story and they get a little bit fed up and almost can't keep up with it because it brings too much, you know, life is short. Let's go.

Let's go. Let's go. Come on. What are we still talking about this for? Is it true? Is it possibly not true? Why are we still talking this way? So, and I understand their frustration.

I have a buddy who lives here in the Twin Cities. He was for years, the main publicist for Stephen Greer. And he gets real fed up with what's going on out there. As far as, you know, he really, with 2017, I think he would have predicted that today you and I would be talking as though the story's all out. Yeah. Everything's made. And it's, you know, that slow drip disclosure, there is all these different categories. that people talk about and they say now we're in slow drip.

It drips and then the spigot turns off. And it feels like right now a little bit that that spigot is more towards the off area than it does on the slow drip. Even though there's still stories that come out, of course. And even though, you know, there's always different breaking news here and there. And this congressman says that. And this senator says that. But it almost feels like the new information hasn't come out in a while. So is that how it's viewed from the outside where people, are they looking at this,

are they looking at this story and thinking, okay, tell me when they're knocking on my door? Are people sick of it? Are people just kind of like, you know, talking about aliens another time because it's just kind of same old, same old? I can tell you my take on that from talking to the people who I would also call outsiders is 2017, 2018, 2018, 2019, there was movement with people who would have never been on board with this story. This is something we have laughed at for decades in my field. You're serious? Are you serious? So there was sort of that reaction, and it was, okay, they're coming along.

They're not straight out skeptics now. They're coming along. the failure of the information to come out faster has resulted now in 2025, in my view, with those people going right back to where they were. Well, there was nothing there. We got suckered in to some New York Times story that died on the vine. Nothing ever happened. They've gone back to their lives, which is what brings a lot of the frustration,

because guys like this Greer publicist, think about it. he's spent his life letting people know what he does. And those people hear it and say, really, you're really spending your time on this? And he's thinking, they'll see, they'll see, you watch, they'll see. And when they don't see, he ends up feeling kind of stupid because he still is a believer, but it is looking like they were right because nothing's happening. And anybody such as yourself who's in this field, you let people know. You run into people.

They ask what you do. You tell them. And you either look like a guy who's at the cutting edge of a story you're on top of and other people are way behind on or you look like a guy who's chasing a ghost. Yeah. Depending on what year it is, what month it is, and where this story is. at. And it's not fun to think you're chasing a ghost. It's fun to think you're onto a story. I mean, you know, you think about Woodward, Woodward and Bernstein with Watergate. I mean,

that's what it should feel like chasing this story. You should feel like you are on the edge of the biggest story going and you're ahead of people on it. And every week, you're getting something new, just like they got from their deep throat source in that parking garage. It's like, we got something here. Let's roll. I'm not even sleeping at night. I'm getting up early. Let's get the next story, the next interview.

That's what this should be like for anybody who's in your shoes. Yeah. And I think maybe at times it feels that way, but it doesn't today. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names. like Death Wish Coffee, Brooke Linnon, and Kylie. But what if people haven't heard about your brand? Well, Shopify helps you find your customers with easy-to-run email and social media campaigns.

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and partnership you deserve. Keck Medicine of USC. Together, we are limitless. Yeah, and I think, I feel that too, and I was curious to see where you were on that, what you feel, what you hear out there, because it does feel like the, I hate to say that the interest has waned,

but it feels like people have, in everyday society, have kind of moved away from the story. And I just think, and that's because of what you're saying, what else is out there? What's new? When the drones were going on

during the holidays in 2024, during that holiday season, that was the lead story. I mean, that was nightly news, 6 p.m. A block. That was what was. being talked about and everyone was on this. Even before that, you had, you know, congressional hearings. It was spoken about. People were paying attention to it. You had a couple of different,

you know, major whistleblowers that were coming out and talking about what they've seen. Yeah, we have bodies. We have biologics. We have craft. So it feels like these peaks and valleys. That's what I experience. And so it sounds like it's kind of that with that, that's what you're seen. And I think the whistleblowers, the people who have come forward, that has had a power. Those people who came forward and talked to the New York Times reporter, that had a power to it, that had an energy to it, and that got an interest going and a fire lit. But that can't sustain the story. This story cannot be sustained by people saying, let me tell you what I know. That only goes so far.

We are at a point now with this story that there has to be hard evidence now. That had power for a time, but it needs to be followed with, it's the smoke. It needs to be followed with the gun. And more smoke is not going to help. We need to see a problem. piece of metal that's examined that looked at. We need to see a body. We need to see something in the way of a video that is more, it's getting trickier now,

even with video because of artificial intelligence. It's already going to move into an era where people are not going to believe video. It's getting, it's almost disturbing now. where we're moving because with AI, if you imagine AI in four years, and believe me, another topic I'm very interested in, and I've talked to a lot of people in the field of AI, four years is going to be like 40 years of advancing in any other field. And it's going to be unrecognizable in four years, the power of AI. And it's going to be very difficult once that happens for anybody to talk in terms of true. quote unquote. I'm a I'm a big fan of just hearing someone talk and tell me their story of a personal encounter and they are someone who has nothing to gain but every and everything to lose

and they're going to tell me their story and you see the sincerity in their eyes and you feel it in their voice and you hear the story and you know what you just heard is true and there's no going back from that. There's no there's no changing the fact that that happened to that person and if that happened then that means this you know just case and point i sat out at princeton university and visited with a professor out there who was listed at one time by time time magazine as one of the 10 greatest minds on planet earth when it comes to space travel how to move craft in space in demand all over the world from countries who want to know how to get something to the moon, something to Mars, something to Jupiter.

He was the greatest mind, worked at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a brilliant, brilliant guy, professor at one time at Boston University. And he's talking to me about just driving across Wyoming one night and what happens to him. And it's a story as dramatic as any. He is dealing with creatures and a craft and lost time. and he is comfortably talking to me about this, a guy who I'm thinking, are you going to be pulled off the staff

of Princeton University tomorrow? He's talking to me about going into hypnosis after and realizing that he's been given all these downloads of information in his brain and he's still at Princeton. He's still in demand. It's one of the great minds out there in this field of space travel.

He's a brilliant guy and he feels comfortable talking about it. What he says to me is he says, I have a reputation that's, that's flawless. There's nothing I've ever done or said that gives anybody any reason to question me as anything but a straight shooter and a man of science. And I just tell you what I see, what I encounter, what I deal with in life, and this happened to me. And I have never not told the story, he said, no matter what group I've been in. If they want to hear it, I tell it. I have no more embarrassment than you would have telling a story about going down the street to the grocery store.

This happened. And now you people can decide what this means. It's fascinating, though, when you talk about how, just to go back a little bit to what you were saying about the smoking gun, it's like we don't need smoke anymore, we need fire. Right. And it's funny to think about that because, you know, being entrenched in it, there is a lot of smoke and people still pick up on it, people who are entrenched in it. And I'm one of them. And I'm fine. I'm actually fine with the smoke because I look at the smoke and someone who's in it as

let me continue to follow the smoke to get me to the fire. And which is so to kind of see the differences in how people look at it of like, stop wasting my time with, and I'm not saying you're saying this, but it's just the collective consciousness. Stop wasting my time with more stories. I need to see something. So, and it feels like that's where a lot of people are right now. Even in the smaller circles, though,

we are still getting these stories. We are still kind of getting the breadcrumbs from. I mean, I just reported on someone who, his name is Roderick Castle, who decided to come out after he and I have been speaking since the beginning of the year behind the scenes. And he's like, okay, I'm ready to have my name out there now. And I told his story of, you know, having being held at gunpoint by this clandestine, you know, a squad as this giant triangle

flew over his head when he was in California at 29 Palms. And he's an active duty Marine when this is happening. So like, and this is an incredible story. But then when someone else outside might hear it and say, okay, that's great, but it was 1997, how do I see this black triangle? So it seems to be kind of like that disconnect right now. Do you think I'm making too much out of it? or do you feel like that disconnect is there from the populace to the people who are in it, so to speak?

Where I always like to take the temperature is with a reasonable intellectual, a reasonable mind, and a person who seems to spend their life interested in what's going on in the world. And you check in with them to see where they stand with this topic. And I'm often stunned. I'll give you one example. A fairly well-respected American intellectual is a guy like Sam Harris, who has his own podcast, a brilliant guy, scientist, author, polymath, able to talk on all sorts of topics, incredibly articulate and eloquent.

This topic comes up. Just doesn't really have much time for it. It just kind of sees it as silly. And I think, really today, 2025, that's a little bit of. That's where you are. I would think any curious mind would say, yeah, I mean, there's something going on there. I don't know what it is. And every time I look into it, there isn't enough evidence to get me real excited.

But, you know, clearly something going on there. Okay, there's the minimum I expect. But when I encounter a guy, well, you know, all these guys still talking about goofy men visiting little guys, you know, grays. They still talking about that nonsense. Then I say, wow. What is the block there? What is the mental block at play there? I get the New York Times writer.

She had never had legitimate people, seemingly legitimate people, come to her and say, we got a story for you that she believed. And once she believed it, she was in shock. You listen to her quotes when she talks about getting this story. She just said it was beyond anything I could have ever. imagined hearing in my entire life. My God, how can this be true? That's a reaction I expect from a sound mind, from a smart person, and then everything after that, including I've looked into it further, and yes, they are hiding some things, and they may have their reasons, but that's

frustrating. We ought to have more transparency. Clearly, there are areas of the government that don't seem to have to answer to other parts, just the basics, just kind of the basis. Just kind of the basics. Me personally, I like to go way, way, way far beyond that. And I'm sure you do too, because I'm describing these things as primitive positions. I'm describing these positions as where one would be today if you had any intellectual curiosity at all. You would be there. I like to go much further than that and go down all the roads that are in my mind also legitimate. For instance, I think a legitimate road to go down because you can find former CIA people who will talk this way is that we potentially as a human race are already alien hybrids.

That's not that weird to me. I think in this world, in this universe, you have to be open to a wide swath of possibilities because history has shown that all the impossible things turn out to be true, including the fact that this table I'm knocking on is mainly empty space. Every freakish thing is true. I mean, that's exaggeration. But, you know, including the two things can be on opposite sides of the globe and what happens to one happens to the other,

the things we know from quantum physics, all the things you can say that are ridiculously impossible. Stephen Hawking, a statement of his from a sound mind. You know, I get that we can remember the past, but I don't understand why we can't remember the future. Everything I've studied says we should be able to remember the future. 200 years ago, 400 years ago, burn him at the stake. That's a factual statement he's making.

The physics seems to show we should remember the future. So take impossible line after impossible line, after impossible story, after impossible story. They've been proven to be true since the beginning of time. So you have got to open your mind. got to open it to not only what you're willing to hold, but it's probably beyond that even. It's probably beyond what you're even capable of holding. The reality of things is probably beyond your ability to comprehend. The real story of what's going on is probably something

we couldn't handle. This guy, Ed Bell Bruno at Princeton University, the downloads he was getting that they were learning about during his hypnosis. I was going to ask you the name, by the way. So his name is Ed Bell Bruno from Princeton. Princeton University. Yeah, you can look them up. The downloads he was getting was more than his brain could handle. In other words, were he consciously, just interviewed a guy this morning, a scientist, neuroscientist who said, we have our conscious mind and then we have our unconscious mind and our conscious mind is like the tip of an iceberg.

But what's also going on is our unconscious. And that is bigger, wider, more mysterious than we could ever imagine. And that is the dominant force in our lives. Well, I say that because what Ed Bell Bruno was saying was, the information could not be stored in his conscious mind. It was overwhelming. He'd come out of his sessions with massive headaches. It was too much.

So, you know, and I think that's part of this story, too. Part of this story is it's too much. And so there are your parameters. Too little information is coming out. It's causing me frustration. But it's probably a fact that we can't have all of it. Because all of it is probably more than we could handle. Hey guys, so before we get back into the conversation, I just want to talk about something that affects all of us.

And it's scary. Starting something new, right? It's hard and it is kind of terrifying because you think about all the work that goes into it. Are you going to be able to succeed? What new challenges am I going to face? It's that uncertainty. But I know how that is, because I can think back when I started UAP, I was just hoping for the best. And it's just like that when you're starting your own business. That's why Shopify is so great and why I'm so, happy to be able to talk about them. Because despite all the fears and hesitations when starting something new, it certainly helps to have a partner like Shopify on your side to help. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Death Wish Coffee, Brooke Linnon, and Kylie.

But what if people haven't heard about your brand? Well, Shopify helps you find your customers with easy to run email and social media campaigns. But what if you hit that wall and you get stuck somewhere? Well, no problem because Shopify is always around to share advice with their reward winning 24-7 customer support. Tackle all those important tasks in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics and more. No need to save multiple websites or try to figure out what platform is hosting the tool that you need. Everything is all in one place with Shopify, making your life easier and your business operations. so much smoother. So it's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today.

Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash UAP. Go to shopify.com slash UAP. That's Shopify.com slash UAP. Hi, you're listening to Meditating with Jan from Toyota. Soften your focus and visualize yourself offroading in a Tacoma. your senses. What do you hear? A donkey. Because you're driving the kids to a farm sanctuary and a Grand Highlander. Breathe in, breathe out, and go

from dreaming it to driving it today. Dealer inventory may vary. See your participating Toyota dealer for details. Event ends March 31st. Toyota, let's go places. What level do you think people could handle? Like, where does it stop? Where does it become too much? It should be commonly

known and accepted that we're being visited by more than one species of alien, that their interest in this planet has to do with some importance this planet has. Somewhere, somehow, it's known that this planet matters. And concern for how we treat it is out there in other realms. and worry about the wholesale destruction of it is out there. I think there is a concern about our nuclear capabilities that is legitimate if you worry about this planet in terms of its role in the larger picture of our galaxy or beyond. I do somehow think energetically some way this planet needs to function,

well in our solar system and there's a concern about that you would at least be able to say okay that's why they're not taking me out for beers or stopping by to visit with me or allowing me to interview them we're not that interesting but this this living thing is it almost feels like misky it almost feels like we're part of a universal ecosystem right because i think so right because i think what was some points that people bring up some time and it's a great point where they say well if If aliens wanted to take over and they have all this advanced technology, things that we can't even comprehend, then why haven't they just done it already? Like, what have they waited for? And I think you make a good point.

That could be the answer. The answer is they're not looking to take over. They're looking to actually protect an ecosystem. Just as like we would protect sharks from going extinct. If sharks go extinct, it's a whole domino effect that ruins, you know, the oceanic ecosystem in, you know, areas A, B, and C. So are we, do we fit into like this universal ecosystem in that same way in a bigger picture and a macro and, you know, we have these micro ecosystems here on Earth in that same way? Yeah, and it makes sense to me because if you look around and we obviously have as much as we can, if you look around what we know of space, there is something special about Earth, not unique. There are going to be plenty of places like it, but there are plenty of places that aren't like it.

I had someone on recently, I wrote a book about the plains, the Great Plains, here in the United States. And they said, it's known now that the Great Plains are like America's rainforest. There are so many dominoes that fall if we destroy the ecosystem of the Great Plains. This is an area people have driven across for years saying there's nothing there. There's nothing here. in a tablespoon of dirt from the Great Plains, there are more organisms than there are people on planet Earth. They're learning that this extraordinary ecosystem of the Great Plains

is just in a lot of cases really small. What if we're like the planes? We're something that someone might think wouldn't be critical in the grand scheme of things. But what if it's highly critical? If it's highly critical, then if I'm an alien, I'm going to where we have nuclear facilities to make sure if I need to, I can shut those things down. I do a couple practice runs shutting them down. And I keep an eye on those things because out of everything I'm seeing so far, that's the bad one. Well, they're showing that that's what they've been interested in.

So the stuff starts to make sense. And if it makes sense to me, I'm not a, I'm not a. I'm not Ed Bell Bruno. I'm just some guy. If it makes sense to me, and I've never been able to have anybody tell me how any of this doesn't make sense. I have never been able to sit across from somebody

to tell me, here's where I think you're wrong on this stuff, and to make sense. And I'm just talking the basic information, just the basic stuff, not the woo-woo stuff, just what we know. Do you know if there's a site, by the way? I might have asked you this before.

There should be a site that everybody can go to where it's just a list. of credentials, person, and story. Credentials, name of the person, and the story they tell, followed by credentials, name of the person, story they tell from all over the world.

Love that. And you could just go there. And I contend that if you could go to that website, anybody, and look at that, you could not come away after and say anything other than, of course what they say is true. Look at who they are.

Look at what they're, what they learned. Look what they've said. Let's accept that. And now what? But I'm a little puzzled. I've looked for sites like that and haven't found it. I one time sat going through videos of different people where I wrote down any time I heard a credentialed person make a incredible statement about something they know or have encountered. And I started to form my own list. And it was for a talk I was giving. And then I didn't hang on to that piece of paper, but I wanted to give a talk where I said, don't believe me, people, believe, and I went boom, boom, boom. And I think I was on number 42 before I said, et cetera.

And it was all just people who the average schmoe out there would tend to believe. And I personally, I'd believe a farmer. Why wouldn't you believe a farmer? Unless the farmer has a history of lying, again, where's the game? in this old 80-year-old guy saying, you know, all the fellas in town are making fun of me, but I'm a truth telling God. I got to tell you what happened last night.

They all think I'm a moron. Instantly, I'm going, why is he making this off? It's ruining his day. It's ruining his week. It's ruining his month. His wife thinks he's an idiot. But we have a population that, for one reason or another,

isn't that curious about this. The guy I know who was the publicist for Greer told me, the reason they're not is in the end they got a kid they got to raise groceries they got to buy a job they got to go to and in the end they say themselves is this really going to affect my life i got stuff to do yep and it probably isn't yeah that's the biggest thing i've heard that's always the biggest contention even in my own life with my own family i mean there's there's no one like me and my family that is you know family members who are interested and they ask me questions about it but you know for the the most part, I hear that in my own life. So it's, no, absolutely, it's one of the biggest contentions. It's like, where does this help me in my life? And I think that's where a lot of people land unless something major happens. And actually, what is disclosure to you? As, what would be that moment? And I use this term sometimes from Stephen Bassett, who is someone who is really ingrained in this in the Washington, D.C. scene. And he uses the term, and I kind of stole it from

him. Little D disclosure and capital D disclosure. And I always had those moments where I say to myself, well, we've had the little D disclosure moments. But what is that, what is that capital D disclosure where a Tommy Mischke, where a Joe blow down the street says, oh my gosh, this is it. We finally know. I'll tell you, at one point I thought I was, I was there. I was interviewing a fella on a different topic for my podcast. And after he let me know that the reason he was late for the interview was he had just dropped off an NSA guy at the airport. And the NSA guy was in town recruiting him to be part of the disclosure project. And I understood why he was being recruited. He was a guy who had experience on television. He was a media guy. He was a guy who, he was a guy who

straddled the world of he was he was a geologist he was a historian he was a guy who was called on by the 9-11 commission to help do some investigations associated with that having to do with figuring out what it actually brought the buildings down he had been called on legitimately for scientific work and he operated with a television program that went into areas that were kind of the great mysteries of life the kind of things that are are more on the periphery um knight templar um stuff um he's one of the guys who studied are you familiar with the kensington runestone stone i am actually yeah yeah on indicating that uh the vikings might have come here to Minnesota long before Columbus came to America. So he's been in these other fringe things,

but he's also highly respected. He's really good on camera. And he was just one of hundreds and hundreds they were going to. People almost like seeding, seeding the country with media people who would help get the story out. And I, of course, wanted to be one of the guys. Little old Mishki, who doesn't have a gigantic national audience like this guy had. I wasn't a TV guy, but I wanted in. And he said, he'll never let you. He'll never allow you in. I said, couldn't hurt to ask him.

Well, he ended up asking him, and I was invited in. And I arrived two months later at the guy was interviewing's house to meet this NSA guy. and this NSA guy sat at the table and he had all sorts of information. I mean, not just about aliens, but about how the world is run. And the upshot of this whole thing is he had credentials, he had knowledge. Jay, the guy at Unity Project, knew about him, the guy down in Australia, who's the big shot? That's the other name you threw up. me, the Australian guy, right?

Ross Colthard. Yeah, Ross Colthard. That guy knew this guy? So these guys know this guy that I'm talking about, this NSA guy. And he turned out to be a complete fraud. Really? A phony. A fake.

A mentally ill guy. Now, when stuff like, and they're on board with this too, they know about it. I had a phone conversation with Jay about this guy. Because I knew Jay knew. him and I tried to get a hold of Jay saying, I need to talk to you about this guy. But from all we can figure out, this guy may have at one time been with the NSA. We're all comfortable believing he's got enough information and he had credentials, but we think that he was, like, booted out.

Like he wasn't well. Like he was told to get lost. Like, you know that there is a fine line between high intelligence and mental illness sometimes. Yeah. Double-edged sword to be really smart. But our determination was that he was trying to be a player in a world where he was no longer a player. Wow. And it was fraudulent and fake.

I thought I was there. I thought I was getting to the core of where we are with this disclosure project. Somebody one time told me that the way if you were responsible for the Kennedy assassination and you were a government official, the way you would make it so no one ever knew is you just get as many stories out as you possibly could. Just get as many out there. You wanted guys to write conspiracy books, more and more and more of them, more.

Just get every kind of story. Tell it in 500 different ways. And then everybody's just going to throw up their arms. This NSA guy was sort of another version of that. It's like, okay, now there's this that happened to me. All of this stuff sounds like it plays right into, the hands of those people who would not want this story getting out. Just keep making it this game.

Where Mishki's chasing this guy and this guy in Australia and this guy in England is chasing this guy. He turns out to be not true. And then have this other guy come out, but then have him get questioned. And then have other people going, well, the story never came out after it came out. Now the story's dead. Turns out it probably wasn't true. And just get frustration and get everybody kind of going, I don't know. What do you think?

I don't know. What do you think? That's the best way. to have this thing play out if you never want this story out. So am I cynical enough to believe it's all being manipulated? Possibly. The whole thing might be just working perfectly because where are we after all this? After six year old, not six year old, sixth grade, Mishki does his Project Blue Book report in 1974.

Where are we in 2025? Am I that far from that 12-year-old right now? There's a lot of great stories in Project Blue Book. A lot of things they couldn't explain or understand. And now here I'm talking about this like, yeah, what is it? What do you think it is? What's going on? I will answer your question by saying it now would take a lot, not for me.

I don't disbelieve. I just think for us to get all on board as a community. in this country on this planet, it would take a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot more than we have now. And by a lot, I mean, in this world of AI, it's not going to be a video. It's not going to be a video.

It's not going to be a top guy coming out and saying it's legit. It's going to have to be bigger than that, which is maybe a bar too high. Interesting. Well, this is really something. Mishki, thanks so much for doing this. and I appreciate you.

Yeah, I appreciate the time. Fascinating conversation. And I really do hope we can do it again. I'm sure we'll work out something where we can. Yeah. It's good to exercise the brain in this department. I don't get a lot of guys that I can talk to about this, obviously, as you know. I mean, so it's very, it's good for me to speak aloud a lot of this stuff with someone

where you can walk your brain through all this stuff. I mean, I always end up after a conversation like this feeling like I'm well aware of where I am, what limitation I've hit and also what I believe. And this reinforces that for me. That's just great stuff. Where can everybody find your show if they want to look you up and get your podcast and everything? How do they do that? If you put in my last name, which I'll spell for you, M-I-S-C-H-K-E, M-I-S-C-H-E, And just the letters G and L as a separate, you know, so Mishki space GL, you'll arrive at a site or you'll see my site listed, which will have all of my shows.

And GL is for garage logic because, as you know, here we're under the same Hubbard Broadcasting umbrella here in Minnesota, the number one podcaster in this state is this great. Garage Logic podcast, so I'm under their umbrella. So GL is for Garage Logic. But if you put my name in, a search engine along with GL, you'll arrive at all my shows. I started here in February with Hubbard Broadcasting. Before that, I did 180 podcasts under a different title, The Mishki Road Show, where I traveled the country interviewing people from all walks of life. And then before that, it was years and years of talk radio. But right now I'm liking doing this. Show comes out every day. Wednesday evening and every Friday evening. Fantastic. Tommy Mishke, thanks so much. This has been just a

beyond fascinating conversation to get the different perspectives and appreciate the time and hopefully we can do it again in the future because this was great. Appreciate you. Thank you. Keep up your good work. We need you. Thanks. Appreciate that very much. Tommy Mishke here on, or just Mishke right here on UAP. Thanks. Really cool conversation. I really enjoy that and I think we will be talking again in the future because Tommy is great. Just an awesome perspective and a guy who gets it.

Like I said, you know, radio legend. So really cool to have him on here, UAP. Check his stuff out. If you want to look into something different, I mean, he does cover this topic here and there. But if you haven't heard my interview with him, you could go back and find that episode. I think just off the top of my head,

I think it was from a couple of months ago, maybe two or three months ago from here. And it was a lot of fun. Like I said, that was a really cool interview of that, that we did together, had a great time with that. But you can also check out any. of his other stuff if you like. So thanks again to Tommy Mishki for coming on here to UAP. That was really great. Some stuff to look forward to before we go, though. If you have Twitter and X

account and you're following me there at UA Podcast 850, you can take part in something that I'm really looking forward to doing on Sunday, August 10th. So depending on when you're hearing this, if you're listening to it right now on the release date of Friday, August 8th, or if it's Saturday Orphid Sunday morning, if you get the chance on Sunday, August 10th, on X, I'll be doing a spaces conversation at 2 p.m. Eastern time with a man named Patrick Jackson. And Patrick is someone who's an author, who's a researcher in the realm of the sphere phenomenon. Now, if you kept up with the conversation, the sphere research paper, that's Dr. Beatriz, Via Royale came out with

and it's been lighting up the world I actually spoke about it with Kelly Chase just a few days ago here on episode 148. It's something that's really interested me where she's come out with this research paper talking about these spheres that have been in Earth's orbit

pre-satellite age, pre-Sputnik and they can't account for where these spheres are coming from, why they've been there and what they've been doing up there. It's, I think, a groundbreaking research paper that is being peer reviewed, but it hasn't really, you know, hit the airwaves on the mainstream, if you will. The really, you know, the mainstream story is the sexy stuff like interstellar object could be alien craft heading toward Earth. That's the sexy stuff that the, you know, New York Post is putting out, that other publications are putting out, which is an important story because what if it's not a comment? And so there's still time to cover that as well.

So I'm not trying to downgrade Atlas or 3I Atlas or anything like that because I have covered that. And I would love to talk to Avi Lob about that again in the future when it comes to the interstellar object 3I Atlas. And what that might be? What if it's not a common? You know, that that's a real question. But when it comes to this thing that Dr. Beatrice came out with about these spheres, according to their research, that have been orbiting Earth in like a network. and what seems like a surveillance type of network before we ever put up satellites

like what are those doing there how did they get there who do they belong to so you know are they actually there is it space junk i don't know is this a case of mistaken identity but the fact is this is a discovery worth worthy of conversation in my mind

so i'm going to be having that conversation during the twitter spaces hosting that with patrick jackson who is really into this topic He has written books about it. And I think that's going to be really cool. He's going to be coming on there from the UK, actually. So 2 p.m. Eastern Times, Sunday, August 10th. If you follow along on Twitter at UA Podcast 850, we're going to be discussing all that stuff.

You can come on and say your two cents, ask your questions, listen and play along. It should be a lot of fun and a really interesting conversation. Also, make sure you're following me along on Twitter, like I said, or any social media, TikTok, YouTube, at UAE podcast 850, and at UAE podcast on YouTube. And if you like to send me any messages, you can do it at those social media channels or at S-Dieneru-A-P at gmail.com, S-D-I-E-N-E-R-U-A-P at gmail.com,

any messages you want to send my way through there or at uappodcast.com. I read them all. I respond back to them all, so feel free whatever you have on your mind. I'll be sure to do that. And, of course, be sure to follow along for any new updates here on UAP

for more episodes to come in the very new. your future. You know I always got stuff up my sleeve for the future. So make sure you follow along wherever you get your podcasts just by subscribing to UAP. That way you don't miss anything. But that will do it for now here on UAP. Can't wait to come back with more next time. Next time around it will be episode 150, a little mini milestone there. So until then, it's Stephen Dean here saying thank you once again for all the support and the kind words that I get through all the messages. Really, really means the world to me. So thank you so much. And the fact

that you keep coming back is just amazing. So until next time, it is Stephen Deiner here saying, thanks again and be well, and talk again soon right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast.