UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 154 The Roderick Castle Story part 1 - The Sighting

Episode Date: September 4, 2025

It's time to officially meet Roderick Castle. Stephen Diener sits down with the newest military witness to go on record about an unexplained event he witnessed while on duty. And this time, it involves being held at gun point and given an unscheduled vaccine. What did he see that led to all of this? In this part one, we learn about what Roderick experienced and the ensuing strife that followed...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Welcome back to you AP. Stephen Dean are back with you here, as always, on the Unidentified Alien podcast for this episode number 154 officially here. And this is an important one. This is we have a lot to cover. And we're going to cover a lot during this episode here today and kind of set the table for the coming days. What I mean by that is first. This is part one of my interview with Roderick Castle. And I'm going to give you a backstory here real quick.

I'm not going to drone on about it, but there is some context that needs to be laid out before we get into the conversation because the conversation takes place in a manner of you already have to know what's going on. There isn't a lot explained. You have to kind of know what's happening as you go into this conversation. So I'm going to give you those explainers for context before we go into this first part of the conversation with Roderick Castle. Again, this is a very important interview, very important discussion. Roderick isn't doing many interviews. I think maybe only one or two besides me. And I think he's got one with Ross Coldheart coming out soon.

But aside from that, and I know he did one with UAP Gerb, who does a great job respectively on his show. so Roderick isn't really going around too much doing interviews about what happened to him. So I'm going to give you a backstory on that first. And also, before we get into the backstory, just look forward to after this interview because, you know, I always come back with some afterthoughts and things like that. But during those, during the post interview portion of the show, we'll get into what to expect from the congressional hearing that's going to take place on September 9th. So there's a lot going on.

We have this interview and we have the congressional hearing coming up. Now we have the date officially set confirmed that I first reported back a few weeks ago. And we have the witness list. The four witnesses who will be taking the stand under oath to testify in front of Congress and quite frankly the world about what they know concerning UAPs. And so I'm going to go into that, especially one of the witnesses who we have a personal connection here to that that I was completely shocked to learn about yesterday that they were on this list. So a lot to get to on that end after the interview. But concerning the interview with Roderick Castle. So quick backstory, if you don't know some of the details that, again, I kind of came out with that I broke about

Roderick about a month ago. So Roderick is a Marine veteran. Was stationed back at the 29 Palms area in 1997. And part of his job at that, he was a man. point was kind of like like crash recovery you know go out survey the area um things like that and he and his unit went out one night in their area of the desert um and this was early march 1997 in fact and you'll hear us try to pinpoint the date but he estimates maybe about seven to ten days somewhere in there five to ten days before the phoenix lights incident and you'll hear us kind of make that correlation. What happened to Roderick was, again, if you're not familiar with the story,

he and his unit were held at gunpoint against their Humvee by an undisclosed militaristic unit, just all in black, they came out of nowhere, and the reason that happened is because a giant triangle craft was flying overhead. And he and his unit were left standing there looking up like, what the heck are we seeing right now? And you'll hear Roderick talk about this incident in more detail, but just a backstory about what happened there and kind of what led into his experiences and how he dealt with that afterwards.

So they're held at gunpoint for about, you know, five minutes or so as we find out during this interview. And their Humvee won't start after these guys leave. The ship takes off. It just, you know, it just accelerates. and it's gone, and they're left without any answers. Another thing that happened was that Roderick was subject, he and his fellow Marines were subject to an unscheduled anthrax vaccine booster.

They had already, you know, met all their requirements, and they were told, like shortly after this incident, that they were supposed to go get an anthrax booster. again unscheduled wasn't something that they were expecting to happen but it did and rodrick has some ideas about why that might have happened so we really dive into that a lot here in this first part as well as the incident itself where he and his fellow Marines were held at gunpoint by this you know clandestine force on us soil again in the middle of the desert these are active duty Marines disarmed and held at gunpoint while this triangle craft is flying overhead.

It's an incredible story. It's a harrowing story. And it's one that still follows Roderick to this day. And it's one that he was holding in for a long time. And you'll hear his reasons as to why he decided to come out and finally talk about this almost 30 years later. He also mentions Michael Herrera and a man named Wygant. And you'll hear him refer to them as his brothers and obviously he means brothers in arms, not actual physical brothers. We know the story about Michael Herrera. He's been on the show a couple of years ago. It's been detailed about what happened to him.

Actually, a similar scenario, but in the, in the jungles of Indonesia, I believe, where it was Michael Herrera, I might be getting that wrong, but it's been a while since I spoke about that story. And same type of scenario where he was held at gunpoint, disarmed, saw a strange craft. So these are things that not have only happened to Roderick Castle reportedly, but also to others. And he makes those correlations. So again, just wanted to give some of that context, some of that backstory was important kind of going into this discussion to have that layer of knowledge moving into it. So that is setting the table here for now. That's everything you need to

know going into it. So I'm going to bring you part one with myself and Roderick Castle. Very important. very special interview here on UAP. Enjoy. Well, this is a really special interview today. I'm happy to bring on Roderick Castle. Happy and privileged, actually, that he's made time to come on here to UAP. Not doing a lot of interviews. It's a very sensitive situation for him.

So, Roderick, thanks for making the time, making yourself available and being open enough to come on to UAP to discuss everything you've gone through and are currently going through. Hey, Stephen, I appreciate it. I wanted to circle back with you because you've been a very important person in this journey for me. You were one of the first people I ever reached out to you because I was a real fan of the show. I enjoyed the way you approached the topic. And I reached out to you via email way back in the beginning of the year in January and you were very kind with your response, very patient with me. So while I'm not going to, I'm not going to be doing a lot of interviews. It's just a lot. Yeah. I especially wanted to come back with you to go for

full circle. Yeah. I appreciate that. Thanks, Roderick. And it is, it is kind of like a full circle moment. It's been, yeah, it's been night. We first, like you said, we first started speaking nine months ago. It's amazing. It's been that long already at the beginning of 25. And it is kind of like that full circle moment. So I guess we can just dive right into it. And maybe, you know, kind of started at the beginning, where it, what I mean by the beginning is, of course, with your experience, I know a lot of people are familiar with it at this point, what happened.

And, but when it comes to that experience, it was 1997, I believe, right? So March, 1997. Yeah, 28 years ago. It's unbelievable. When it does come to that, how does that feel now looking back on it? I know it's something that it's hard for you to really dive into the fine details a lot. But looking back on it almost 30 years ago, amazingly, how does it now kind of live in your head? How have you been able to reconcile what happened?

Well, it goes through stages. This was probably something I was going to take to my grave, maybe told little antidotes to my grandkids or anybody that would listen, but it was something that I considered accidental, accidental, traumatic, kind of something I stood alone with, even though I have reached out to the guys I was with. And basically because of no response, I consider, you know, I'm going to respect that, that they don't want anything to do with it.

And I understand that. But I've been going through a journey with, because I am diagnosed with PTSD through the VA. And specifically for an incident, a hating incident that happened, you know, earlier in my career. But holistically, you know, this, my UAP incident is definitely part of that, but I've never been able to talk about it. Right. The main part of this journey for me was starting to feel empowered back in 2017. Like, wow, military people are actually talking about these situations. We've got Navy pilots, you know, guys that I respect.

The type of dudes that I worked with on ships are now openly talking. talking about this in Congress. That's what started me, started thinking, well, what part do I have to play? Does my story even matter? You know, what part of the puzzle? But slowly moving into the 2000s, I felt, I do have a part to play.

Because of the type of people I saw speaking before Congress, it was like none of these people have had direct, you know, they, some of them have never even seen anything. They've just heard secondhand. Right. That started to frustrate me. So that's when I decided to start reaching out.

Gotcha. And so you were inspired then by what you saw from like the New York Times article in 2017 from the congressional hearings with like, you know, a Ryan Graves or Dave Fraver. So you were kind of inspired by seeing those actions. And ultimately that led you to make a decision that you never really thought you were going to make, which was to go public with your story. Exactly, exactly. You know, I'm a patriot.

I love our country. I love the Marine Corps. Not always on board with the way things are implemented. But I certainly never wanted to say anything that would hurt our national security. But the more, you know, I've always, ever since 97, I was, of course, fascinated by a triangle-type type. sightings. You know, it's been a soft research subject of mine and but the more and more

the accumulated knowledge about triangles and I was like, okay, I do have a piece to play here. And then I did my own research about what was going on in 97 in the desert, in 29 palms, making those connections. And I was like, okay, there is something here. I do

have a part to play. And I think I have a part to play as far as how these situations affect individual veterans that went through something, had things done to them. You know, gas lighting, et cetera. Yeah. And then what are we going to do about that in the future? Because I have to say, you know, I can go into the anthrax vaccine part of my story. but there is a trend there. You know, I've at least talking to Mike Herrera,

and I know I wasn't even aware that my brother, Wigant also received an anthrax vaccine booster after his encounter. So I do worry about that for myself and my fellow vets. Is that going to be the new Agent Orange, you know, in 10, 15 years? Are we going to be having physical, physiological results of these things and then the VA is going to have to catch up to help us.

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And one of them was the, the post-experience vaccination. You know, after you're held at gunpoint, which I do want to ask you about, if that's okay to kind of dig into that a little bit. But after you go through all that, all of a sudden, you and your, your fellow Marines are forced to get an unscheduled anthrax booster. Why? I mean, that is one of those details that ever since you told me about it months ago, it hasn't sit well with me.

And I don't mean it in the aspect of, oh, well, I don't believe that. That's silly. I mean in the aspect of it's disturbing. Why would that be a thing? Why do you think they did that? Well, I have to say I've gone through two stages with this. When I initially started talking about it, Dr. Stephen Greer gave me some information, which I felt was a little maybe on the more pessimistic side of the situation.

Like maybe implanted with something even, some type of something that would affect memory or, you know, even as far as the tracking device. So that's the route he went down when you were asking him about it? Yeah, we, you know, just he's got some theories on that. Okay. Which, which created some anxiety. And I have asked him for some additional help. Is there anybody that can scan for anything?

Is there anybody that can, you know, give me a diagnosis? Because the VA wants nothing to do with that. Sure. You know, they, they don't, if they're not going to acknowledge UAP situations, they're certainly not going to acknowledge, you know, micrograms. transplants or something like that. So I've kind of come to another conclusion that perhaps it was something related to being exposed to exotic technology. Maybe they were actually trying to help us in the sense of, hey, anybody that runs across this stuff, we need to give them this

inoculation um you know and i was watching an episode of the uh the show Chernobyl okay where you know iodine was slowly worked into people's uh bloodstream um without their knowledge to protect from radiation and i was like perhaps it was something like that because i want to i want to be optimistic about my government you know and even if uh we came across something that we weren't supposed to see they still would look out for us without telling us exactly what they were doing. So acknowledged, unacknowledged situation where they know Marines will do what they're told. And if they tell us we need an anthrax booster, we need an anthrax booster.

So maybe they were watching out for us. But again, are there any side effects of something like that? Have you experienced anything strange, Roderick, when it comes to any type of physical side effects or even mental side effects that you didn't have before? And this is going to sound like a weird question, but I ask it for a reason because I've heard things like this. Do you experience any type of strange sounds that you hear that can't be explained or even tones? or dare I say voices? I mean, did anything weird happen after or since you got that unscheduled vaccine? Well, it's an interesting question because, you know, I did go on to get a master's degree in mental health counseling.

So I learned all about PTSD. And when you, when you juxtaposed PTSD symptoms against other things, it can get, it can get very gray. But have I had intermittent memory loss from the past 30 years? Yes, I do have some gaps. Even about the incident, there's small gaps. I actually got contacted by one of my fellow Marines who served with me in VMA 513. He wasn't there with me that night. He was on another deployment.

And talking to him, I realized there are gaps after 97. you know, of me trying to create a timeline. Do you think that's natural or do you think that's just a side effect of just everything you've gone through? Maybe even, you know, just prosaic when it comes to, you know, PTSD where your mind is just blocking things out. Yeah, some of it doesn't feel, some of it doesn't feel natural. I have to say that because I do have very, very clear memories of many things. from back then. You know, my daughter was also born in 97, you know, very close to that deployment.

She was born March 14th, 1997. Very clear memories of that situation. But if I go back to the deployment, there are some gaps. And I'm diagnosed with tinnitus, you know, which is a ring in the year, which She does interfere with thinking sometimes. Now, is that from working on Harriers? You know, which are very loud aircraft. And that's just natural thing, or is that something?

Because they only, they only rated me a 10% disability, but it's definitely more disabling than that sometimes. Like a loud, a loud ringing that can actually interfere with thinking. And then I have to step aside sometimes, in meetings or situations where I step outside, let it tone down, and then come back to the situation. So has it affected me professionally and personally? Definitely. I'm sure disclosure is going to happen. And I'm doing my part.

So when it does actually happen and the government actually acknowledges, then I want the VA to dig into, I want to be able to have a. special group that I can go to and we talk about exposure PTSD UAP related PTSD what that feels like and get get our veterans some help I've had many veterans reach out to me telling me their own experiences and they're all they're all hurting in some way if I got to take take the bullet to be the guy out here even though it's affecting me personally and professionally to get this into the public domain, I'm going to do it. You know, I'm, I'm ready and willing to testify before Congress. Okay. It doesn't look like I'm on the list, which is fine. I was going to ask you that,

actually. Yeah. Yeah, I know I only have a small piece of a part to play in this. And I, I don't care about testifying before Congress as long as there's people up there. And it sounds like some of the names or the descriptions of the guys, it sounds legit this time. Maybe on the ninth, we're going to get some real, some real veterans who have actually really experienced things and are going to be able to talk about it. And I'm empowered by that. Yeah, and it's a very commendable of you, you know, put yourself out on the front lines, essentially.

I find there's actually so much running through my mind. I'm going to see how much I can get to. You mentioned a lot of veterans have reached out to you and talk about similar experiences. Are we talking about they've all had some type of UAP experience, or are we talking about just in general, like, hey, we need a support group because of things that we went through in the military? A little bit of both, but some, a lot of guys who, a lot of firsthand witnesses, just, you know, when you're out, when you're out in the middle of Pacific or you're out in the middle of the Pacific or you're out in the middle of. desert um you see things and i haven't had anybody that i'd say was a smoking gun if if i'm if i meet one of those guys who actually worked on a project or you know i i heard ross kohart used the term you know turn the spanner a guy turning the spanner on the tr3b if i meet if i talk to one

of those guys i'm going to highly encourage them to come forward because that's the kind of people people we need. But mostly witness stuff like myself. One guy who is implying that he was also assaulted by a Merck team, you know, in black clad, same type of people. This is a Navy guy. But he's very scared. He's not ready to say anything to anybody. He wouldn't even give me his name, but he reached out on X and just said, hey, wanted you to know something similar to me and you're not alone. But I think I reached a point in my career and my family, you know, about two years ago where I was like, could I actually start speaking about this without heavy losses? My daughters are.

older, you know, they're in their 20s now. I was in a, I was in a middle stage of my career. You know, I was the director of behavioral health here at the Veterans Outreach Center, which is right next door, and kind of deciding what I wanted to do next. And I was like, this is, this is the time I could put, put myself at some risk and speak up and maybe, maybe be the voice for the veterans who, uh, who don't have a voice. And then of course my brother's Wigant and Herrera also inspired me. What I see their situations as as worse in a sense because they were, my situation lasted three to four minutes. There's, you know, they were, they were attacked and assaulted, you know, Herrera for 20, 30 minutes.

And of course, why Gant, he was taken to a facility and interrogated. And when I heard those stories, I was like, no, this isn't okay. Not okay. Yeah, and that's really one of the, you know, I talk about some of the disturbing details. And that's one that has stuck out with me as well was the fact that you and your fellow Marines were held at gunpoint and disarmed on American soil. And you're in uniform. It's not like you were, you know, mistaken. And I have heard stories.

So don't get me wrong. And I want to point this out because I think it's important. to put both sides in there. I have heard stories from other veterans that say, well, yeah, you know, if you're, if you're in a spot, I know you probably know this as well. If you're in a spot you're not supposed to be in, you're going to be taken down. It doesn't matter if you're Marine, Navy, whatever it is. If that guard is there doing their job, they're going to take anybody down who's in an area

they're not supposed to be in. So do you feel like that's what that was or was it something much more extreme? Well, at the time, when you're a younger Marine and you're, you know, I was a sergeant, but that's still a relatively lower rank. You know, you often, you'll walk, you know, if you're on a ship and you walk in this, especially in the Navy, you know, Navy Marine thing, you walk into somebody's space, you know, you'll get, you'll get verbally assaulted up and down. at the time that's the way it felt you know even though we were doing our job we weren't in in any

unauthorized area we didn't cross any lines or fences um we still felt like we accidentally came across something some new technology that was being tested utilized which yeah there was a lot of stuff going on that week in the desert. But at the time, you feel like, oh, I really screwed up. You know, I screwed up. I got me and my men in trouble. So we're just going to shock that up as a mistake, something I shouldn't have seen. And I'm not going to leave it.

I'm going to leave it there. But as the years go by and you hear more and more about other people, you start the term moral, moral. injury comes up where you feel like your chain of command didn't necessarily have your back. Now, while I feel like the Marines in my chain of command that they weren't trying to harm me and whether they knew anything else about the situation, but I think they were told to make sure those Marines, you know, keep their mouth shut and make sure this doesn't go anywhere. What do you think you saw, Roderick, what do you think you saw, looking back on it?

Do you think you saw a secret, you know, experiment from whatever branch of the military would be experimenting with the triangle craft or what's something else? These guys were definitely, they weren't there to investigate the thing. They were there with the thing. I know that. That's what my instinct tells me. I also have another instinct about it that this thing wasn't man. It was some type of, you know, as technology, as what we're allowed to see, you know, Boston Dynamics, you see these, these dog, horse type vehicles that follow around the troops. As I see stuff like that emerging in the public, I'm like, that's what this thing kind of felt like.

It's something that hovers, maybe sensors, maybe transport. of equipment that just kind of it stays with a group and maybe they were testing it out and it was malfunctioning briefly or um you know some theories that it was intentionally brought our way to see see see it's ability see maybe it had some cloaking technology that they were testing out and it i don't know that's that's where the that's where the moral injury comes in like I don't want to be a guinea pig. Right. You know, for, uh, for, for any kind of technology or any kind of psych,

psychological operations, any kind of, uh, inoculated vaccines. I don't, you know, I'm, I'm 53 now and, um, trying to keep it together and trying to see what I'm going to do with the rest of my life. And I don't take kindly to, uh, maybe being a guinea pig. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Death Wish Coffee, Brooke Linnon, and Kylie. But what if people haven't heard about your brand? Well, Shopify helps you find your customers with easy-to-run email and social media campaigns.

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That's Shopify.com slash UAP. Is that how you felt? Do you feel like you were, I mean, I know, I know it's just a theory and maybe you can't even answer the question definitively, but when you look back on it and you kind of think, well, geez, you know, was that just by accident? Because we were just doing our job on, you know, duty that night, crash retrieval like you were doing, you were sent out there to get, you know, do your thing.

And then this triangle, you know, craft comes over. Do you feel like it was something where they said, hey, let's put it over these guys and see what happens? Or was it just wrong place, wrong time? Feels like a little bit of both. Like they were out there doing operations, you know, interacting with the situation. because we we didn't even we had three

carriers participating in that exercise but we we actually didn't have any jets in the air that night but we but collateral duty they call it you know you take turns

we were attached to a helicopter squadron and we would take turns you know doing that 12 hour duty and it feels like those guys were maybe

out there just doing operations in the gray areas. And whatever came their way came their way. I didn't hear about anybody else seeing lights in the sky or coming across that. But of course, I don't know how many times that happened that week. It could have been, you know, there were Navy guys out there. There were Army guys out there. It's a busy place for being such a. that area of the desert is very busy with aircraft.

Like anything, I feel like it might have been a little bit of both. We definitely surprised them. Okay. They weren't waiting for us. Okay. But they also seemed ready to just take care of business. And, you know, there's, I'm open to all interpretations. There's a, there's a gentleman on X.

who did a short video, maybe this was intentionally, we were intentionally put into that situation, you know, like a blue team, blue team just training for them to see how, see how Marines react to that kind of situation. And some of that's valid. You know, some of that's valid. So, but again, that causes that causes that moral injury where I'm like, that's not okay. to do to active duty personnel. Yeah. But of course our country, unfortunately, has a history of experimenting on their own people.

And I'm not okay with that, you know. I'm not okay with that. Yeah, none of us should be, quite frankly. When you do look back on that incident, though, just as far as some of the details, How long were you guys held down with 10, 5, 15 minutes? Not even. The whole incident lasted maybe four minutes. Okay.

And did they just like... We came up over the hill, saw what we saw, hit the brakes. Before we could even step out of the Humvee, they're already coming up the hill in V formations and with submachine guns. Um, at the ready, you know, very SWAT team mercenary, um, American accents, uh, face masks. Um, pulling us, pulling us out of the vehicle, um, turning us towards the vehicle, heads down.

They didn't want us looking at, they didn't want us looking at this craft. Right. That was, that's what I felt paramount. Like, the sense that this shouldn't be happening. These guys can't see this. Take care of business. Quickly as possible. And the minute the thing took off at a super high rate of speed, they were done.

Like that, their job was done. They ran back to their vehicles. From what I remember, their vehicles, they never turned their vehicles off. So they drove off in the same direction down the same road. Towards the northwest, our Humvee would not start for a good five minutes. And we're all in a state of shock. And we're just looking at each other like, you know, what the hell just happened? But also that feeling of, again, when you're a younger Marine,

you kind of walk around and the Marines are tough on Marines. And higher ranking people are tough on lower ranking people. You walk in a state of walking on eggshells. And when something like that happens and you think you really might have screwed up, you're just in a state of shock. There wasn't like we started talking about it and we went back to our quonset huts and sat down in a circle and processed. There was none of that.

And when you're gunner, your sergeant and your warrant officer are in your hut when you come back, you know. Yeah. And they're based, they say one or two sentences about flare activity. You know, it's implied. That's that's the story. That's what we're, it's what we're all going to stick with. And, end the story. So it feels like, and that's something I thought about too, Roderick.

ever since we started speaking about this, even behind the scenes, it feels like they got the directive. Like your commanding officers got the directive, like, hey, your guy saw something. Here's what they saw. Make sure they know that. Do you feel like that's what happened? Yeah.

And I really, you know, I did have, I had problems with one of the gunnies. He was never what I consider a good Marine. He would come down on, what you know weaker marines a little hard you know that one of the reasons i became a a mental health counselor later is because i know what service people went through it it is often an abusive situation you know discipline needs to be there but um oftentimes you get power power hungry people in the military who really utilize that um to be unkind to lower level personnel.

So even though I felt that way about that gunny and the warrant officer, he always treated me well. I was actually his admin assistant for about a year. You know, I had some college when I went in. I was able to do paperwork. I kept track of all the ordinance and I feel like overall Those are generally good men. And they were probably told the minimum amount of information that they needed to get across to us.

I don't even think they were probably told that, hey, these guys saw a triangle out there. They were probably just told, hey, whoever was running something out there, some of your guys came across it. They weren't supposed to see that. Right. Let them know. Let them know we're just going to go with. flares the original call, and that's it. End the story. I am curious, too, when it comes to the timing of this.

This was just, I think, a few days before the famous Phoenix Lights incident, which, of course, was seen in a V formation. Do you think this is connected? Do you think it was the same type of craft or, you know, test craft, whatever might have been? If this was terrestrial, if this was some type of secret crap being tested by the military. Was that like the ultimate test to fly it over a city? Yeah, my gut tells me they're connected. I do want to set the record straight because, you know, different influencers pick up

on the story and because of the correlation of dates, they want to say, I saw these things on the 13th, 14th of March. Therefore, it's the same, same lights. that's not the case. This was a specific incident. I still don't have, I still don't know the date. One of the reasons I'm trying to get my whole stack of military records from Quantico, Marine Corps headquarters, so that I can,

but I put in that request many, many months ago, and I still haven't received those. That seems like a common theme. I've heard Mike Herrera say that as well. Why can't you get your records? Well, you know, I don't want to go anywhere nefarious, but because working with veterans every day, it's hard to get your records anyway. Right.

It takes many, many months for even a guy who just wants to get, you know, some compensation for his knee injury. It takes him six, eight months to get his records. So, but I'm asking for everything. You know, I'm asking for every piece of paperwork every anything on micro fish you know whatever um i don't want to say it's intentional but you know i i'm going to make that decision when i get when i get what they send me and i'm

going to go through it step by step and see is anything changed here is anything redacted um i also have the suspicion that some of these some of these deployments are aren't even necessarily documented. Like, I think my records will show I'm attached to VMA 513. And only if I went to medical, you know, when we go on these mini deployments for two, three weeks, those don't necessarily get put into your record. You're attached to your unit, whatever your unit does,

that's what you do. Gotcha. Of course, when I went, only when I went shipboard two times in my career those are documented because you become part of the ship's crew but other than that I don't think we did many many deployments we did deployments in the chocolate mountains in california 29 palms we went up to uh spokane washington we went to i've got like 10 12 mini deployments once to alabama for a week and i don't think those are anywhere in my record so um my main My main thought is to try to get track of that anthrax vaccine and see if that is documented.

Again, like, I'll go back through. That's one of my main concerns. I do not want, in general, I don't want the anthrax vaccine to become the new age in orange, you know, for veterans in five, ten years. So just the anthrax vaccine in general was always concerning, but especially, if it was given in some kind of a suppressive or inoculation way, that maybe it wasn't even an anthrax vaccine. That's my main concern. I'm trying to get, I'm trying to get tracked that down. Right.

And that would be the question is why at that moment, why it's very coincidental, why all of a sudden unscheduled right after you had this experience? Yeah. Or was it a form of psychological, you know, know, intimidation. Right. Maybe, maybe it was nothing. Maybe it was, you know, salt water. It was just because it was so a day or two after the incident, a way of saying, hey,

we, we know you saw something and we're just psychologically implying stay in your lane. Right, right. Which is also a possibility. And I know you say that you can't remember the date exactly. that had happened, but you know it was before the Phoenix Lights? Sometimes before. Yes. It definitely was.

The reason I know, because I was back, my daughter was born March 14th, 1997. Okay. I know I was back in Yuma that day. I'd gotten back probably 12 hours before she was born. That was one of my main goals. But I also, I can cordial. relate to dates because I remember hoping she would be born early so I did not have to go on that deployment. So I remember not being aware of the Phoenix flights until maybe a week or two

later because my daughter was born, you know, baby was in the hospital for a couple of days, got everybody back home safe. You know, I was all wrapped up in that situation. Sure, sure, of course. And so that's interesting. So somewhere in between maybe about a week, week before somewhere it's seven to ten days or within that range of um yes before the phoenix lights and i would like to i would like to be able to give um investigators an actual date that's why i'm trying to get those records to see if there's anything in there because i think i think that's an important piece of the puzzle if i could give an exact date and and you know people that are more versed in this stuff than me could look at radar data

you know, talk to other personnel that might have been there. Maybe even I would love to talk someday to somebody that was in that tower, you know, aware of what aircraft was in the air that night. Who made the call to go investigate, you know, unknown flare activity. Yeah. So do I think the Phoenix lights are connected? it, my gut tells me, yes, that's all part of the situation. You can't discount the closeness of the date. But it seems like maybe a different type of aircraft, maybe, you know, much larger, obviously.

You know, that became a fascination, too. I've got a couple of books on the Phoenix Lights, and I've tried to kind of correlate things. Yeah. But a lot of stuff goes on in the desert. Yeah. That's for sure. And it's funny because, you know, of course, you make that correlation because of where

you saw this happen and the time frame, same year, same month, you know, within days of each other. But also what struck me was the explanation that you were given, which was you guys saw flares, which is what the country was told about the Phoenix Lights, that it was just some type of flare exercise. Yeah, and another Another prompt for me to come forward was Those Marines at 29 POMs

Who filmed Lights in the sky Yeah, recently, that's right In a triation, I don't remember what date I just remember seeing it on a, you know, weaponized with Corbella Knapp That's right And again, flares It seems like for military personnel flares

Flares are the swamp gas. That's true. That's right. If you can't explain it, it was flares. But, you know, I'm one of the guys that used to load flares into the buckets on the harrier. So I know what flares look like. And I know what flares look like from a rifle. You know, I know what flares look like coming out of an aircraft.

And they behave in a certain way and they have a certain loom. luminescence and these lights that I saw were not flares and they don't and the Phoenix lights those were not flares. I suppose it would be hard to account for instantaneous acceleration if it was if it was flares. Would you, is that how you characterize it? What you saw that night, Roderick, was some type of instantaneous acceleration once it went away?

It was a, it was a kind of a slow buildup, like maybe 30 seconds of. getting to an angle but once it hit that angle it was it was gone you know that's when you talk about that that excessive acceleration like I've never seen I've never seen a helicopter or a jet go that fast and so that would and it's it's about the sound it's about the sound and the lack of any exhaust You know, with a helo, with a helicopter, a helo, you, you get that thump in your chest. Right. With a harrier, things, anything that can hover, you're just, you're, you, you got a big Rolls Royce engine in the middle of that thing.

And that's what's keeping the thing up. You know, it's just, it's wild. It uses half its fuel, you know, just, just landing and taking off. And I know what that feels like and sounds like. And this thing had neither. And the luminescence of the lights. I've a new fascination of mine, and you hear a lot of talk about it now, is, you know, plasma, orbs. Sure.

The light emitting from these kind of embedded, embedded orbs, it had that feel. It was like a deeper light. It wasn't LED. It wasn't fluorescent. It didn't project. Put it that way. It's like an encapsulated light. Do you feel like it was like an energy source?

Do you feel like these were energy sources inside of it? I mean, if you think about physics, if you've got the ability to capture something inside an orb, that's going to, if it's got some kind of anti-grab effect, a triangle would be the way to go, right? You put one in each corner, and then you're going to get that stability. I mean, this thing didn't, it didn't wobble.

It didn't wobble. It didn't, it was just perfectly still, and it's slightly turning counterclockwise. If you were going to have something that came with you or helped you transport equipment or something, that would be the way to go, right? Just something that stays with you, perfectly stable, you know, sensor equipment. Who knows? Who knows? You know, my mind goes all kinds of places.

But, you know, not my expertise. Sure. How many lights again, though? Just just for a reminder, Roderick, how many lights? three. Okay. So it's one in each corner, one in each corner. I did get the general sense of a, um, a convex moving inward in the center, but no light, no light emitting from there, not that I saw. So you, you kind of feel like this was maybe some type of unmanned super advanced drone. Would that be a fair assumption to make?

Yes. You know, I never saw the top. And I've seen drawings of all kinds of triangle, you know, theorized aircraft, some man, some not. So I don't know what was on top. Just like a, more of like a platform.

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And we kind of get into the descriptions of that craft. Very unusual, very intriguing. You hear about the correlations to the Phoenix lights. Did they see the same type of thing? Was there some type of testing going on of reverse engineered craft during that time? Early mid-March in 1997, you heard him say a couple of times allude to it. A lot of stuff happens in the desert. So not only did we see some type of reverse engineered craft that was being

tested out in 1997, but was that what the Phoenix Lights was all about? And these questions continue to contradict themselves because we spoke about this with the Tic Tac and Lockheed. We spoke about reasons why that wouldn't be Lockheed technology. But if that's not Lockheed technology, then who's making this and why are they able to make this? Why couldn't Lockheed make the Tic Tac? So there's a lot of contradictions.

There's a lot of arguments within stories that we just try to make sense about where maybe it is reverse engineer technology, but not always reverse engineer technology. Or maybe Roderick did see an alien craft that wasn't being piloted by humans, but it was being guarded by humans. I mean, these are all different possibilities that we're still trying to kind of dig up and find the answers on. But there's a lot more about this in part two, and that will come out in the next few days as we finish up this discussion. And I think what struck me about this as well, and Roderick even said it after we were done, was that this conversation really kind of struck on a personal level for him, a deeper level. He said, you know, I hadn't had an interview like this before.

And I appreciated that when he told me this when we were done because this isn't part on the recording. This was something we were talking about after we were done. And he said, you know, I really appreciated that because it was very personal. And you could probably pick up on that in the first part. And there's kind of more that personal touch to really kind of get, you know, inside what he's, was thinking then, what he's thinking now, how it's affected him, how it affects other military personnel that these things might have happened to. You know, this is real stuff that's happening to people.

What they're seeing, what they're experiencing, that's completely up to you. But it's happening. And it's something that needs to be paid attention to. So it's probably one of the more personal touch interviews I've done, kind of maybe an expose, if you will, that we kind of really dug it. into Roderick's life and how this has affected him. So a lot more to come in part two about all of this and about where he is now and things moving forward.

So I look forward to bringing you that conclusion in just a few days. So stay tuned for that one. And speaking of witnesses, that will take us to what's coming up on the ninth. And I'll spend more time on this next week as well when we bring out part two with Roderick Castle. but just to kind of set this up and look at what is in front of us right now. First off, I will be there, God willing. I've made my plans and I have my flight, have my hotel, and I plan on doing that.

So barring any unforeseen circumstances, I will be at the hearing. I will be inside the hearing. I'm fortunate enough to gain media access, thankfully, this time. So I won't be standing in line for five hours. I'm thankful for that. So I will have access to the actual hearing, like I did last time, but just getting in there a little bit easier this time around. So that said, what can we expect?

Of course, I will be covering it all live. So make sure you're following me along at UA Podcast 850 on Twitter. I'll try to get some videos up on YouTube and TikTok as well. And so I'll be trying to give live updates as much as I can when this is going on next week. I'll have reaction. I'll have some things going on before. hand while I'm at the Capitol and see, you know, what what is the scene like who is there. So I'm going to be covering the ins and outs of this on Tuesday, the 9th, as best as I can.

And I look forward to doing that for you. But once we get there and once we have this hearing, I am very excited, actually, to hear what these men have to say. One of them in particular being Jeff Nusatelli, because Jeff Nusateli, who I had no idea was going to be one of the witnesses until we all found out yesterday. day on September 3rd when this list came out and I saw the name Jeff Nusatelli on there. I'm like, oh my gosh, he's a friend of the show. I know Jeff.

He's been on here two or three times. Great guy. Really enjoy speaking with him and has that incredible story about the Cube, the Red Cube, that came over Vandenberg Air Force Base back in 2003 and even his own UAP interaction that came over his housing on base a year later. And I wonder if he's going to get into that. I don't know. Well, we'll find out together on the 9th.

but I was like shocked, excited. I mean, to hold the above to see that Jeff Nusateli is going to be a witness during this hearing. And I actually texted him when I found out. I said, dude, you're a witness. And he wrote back to me. He said, it's absolutely surreal. And so I can't wait to catch up with him there. Hopefully I get to speak with him before and after the hearing.

And I can bring some of that exclusive to you. So that's going to be incredible to hear what Jeff Nusateli has to say to the world once he gets in front of Congress to tell his story. Also, Chief Alexandra Wiggins, who was a witness to a pretty big sighting in 2003 from the USS Jackson. So he's going to be speaking as well about his experience, what they saw. And Dylan Borland, who a lot of people have never even heard about before. But I'm excited to hear what he has to say.

He's described as a UAP witness and a U.S. Air Force veteran. So excited to see what he has to offer. And then George Knapp, of course, that was. was one of the ones that a lot of people paid attention to, described as UAP journalist officially from the congressional team there. We all know George Knapp. He's an original in this field. It's not anywhere near what it is today as far as what is spoken about, how it's spoken about in the public sphere. It's nowhere near that, if it's not for the work George Knapp has done the past 40 years.

so I can't wait. I mean, the man is a wealth of information. He's an encyclopedia of UAP knowledge and incidences. And probably knows a lot more than he's even been able to say before in the past. So I, for what I'm excited about this, I know a lot of the initial reaction in social media, just like with anything else, is always negative. So it's not 100% negative. I did see some reaction from people saying that, you know, they're excited.

They can't wait to hear what is said. But then you have other people say, that's all the same. We've heard what these people have had to say before. My take on this is the same as it was last year for the hearing in November, which was, you and I may know what they have said before in the past, but the general populace has never heard what they've had to say before. So for a lot of people, and it's important to reiterate this, like I said last November, for a lot of people, they're going to be hearing Jeff Nusatelli for the first time. They're going to be hearing Chief Alexandra Wiggins for the first time.

Maybe they're hearing George Knapp for the first time. to you and I, that sounds insane, though for a lot of people, they may not have even heard of George Knapp before. So this is something, again, just to put it out there to reiterate this point, and some of it might be quote-unquote old news to us when we hear it, and we don't know what they're going to say, so maybe we're going to hear things we've never heard before. I don't know. But even if we do hear things we've heard before, it's still going to be new to the general

populace. And it's all about still gaining attention, gaining trust. traction to push this forward and continue to push it forward and hopefully have the UAP Disclosure Act. You know, maybe this helps to push that forward in the Senate and the Congress. Maybe it gets the attention of the White House. You know, that's what this is all about is to gain more traction and gain more attention. And for, again, a lot of people, it's going to be the first time they're hearing these

things, even if we have heard them before. So I say that again, just for perspective. But all in all, very excited for this. a huge opportunity for the UAP community and for the world to hear more about what needs to be said and what needs to be put out there. And I can't wait to get there and cover this for you and tell you all about it as it happens. And after it happens, it's another journey in the crazy wild world of UAP. There's always something going on.

That is for sure. It's my pleasure to bring it to you. So we'll do that again next time. Like I said, in a few days we'll come back here with part two and also be able to to preview the hearing a little bit more at that time as well. So until then, it's Stephen Deiner here on UAP. Be sure to follow along wherever you get your podcasts on Spotify and Apple, all those places, Amazon.

Be sure to check it out. Just search for a UAP. Subscribe, download, rate. If you love it, go ahead and do that, please. I appreciate it. And follow along on social media, like I said earlier, at UA Podcast 850, especially for next week at the hearing.

If you're not following yet, I would highly suggest you do that at UA podcast. 850. So until next time, thanks again. Can't wait to talk to you again soon. It's Stephen Dean here saying be well. Thanks so much. And I'll talk to you again soon right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast.