UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 169 The Latest on 3I/Atlas with Avi Loeb

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

World renowned Harvard Astrophysicist, Avi Loeb joins Stephen Diener to report on his latest findings concerning the disputed interstellar object, 3I/Atlas. Are there even more signs now that are pointing to this being something other than a comet? And when should we expect to get a definitive answer? All of this and more is covered right now...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Jeep has won more awards over its lifetime than any other SCB branch. Even the Jeep Grill or registered trademarks of XIAUS LLC. Yes, welcome back into UAP for episode 169. It's Stephen Deaneer here back with you as always on the Unidentified Alien podcast for this new episode where I'm happy to bring to my new interview with Harvard astrophysicist, the one of the only Avi Loeb, who seems to be the man of the hour these days. He has been a lot of different places, most recently on NBC. news on News Nation, on all these newsmax, on Joe Rogan.

He's been everywhere with CBS, I believe. So Avi Lob has been making the rounds nationally on news and podcasts because of the interstellar object, 3-I Atlas. And this is obviously something that we've been covering here on UAP. And I tried to update it when I get the chance. And I'm happy to do that on my own with just some research and facts and details. that I always like to try to do here on UAP. I do my best with all that.

But if I can get someone like Avi Loeb, who is the authority on it these days, whether when it comes to what are we looking at? Is it a comment? Is it something else? He has been studying this from the outset of the discovery of 3i Atlas. And so I was happy to finally be able to bring him back on here. We had him on here about three or four months ago.

And he's been extremely hard to get back in touch with since then, quite honestly, and I actually kind of alluded to it here when I speak to him. I've been trying to reach out to him for about a month to try to book a new interview with him, and thankfully we were able to do that over the past few days. Very busy, and I was honored that he was able to make a lot of time here for this interview. We spoke for about 45 minutes, and it's all about the latest on 3-Ey Atlas. Why does he find this to be such an important object to study? Why has he decided to spend so much of his time on it, given that he's already a busy person

as it is with a busy schedule. So why devote so much time to this object that other people say is clearly a comet? Well, Avi has some pretty interesting answers here on what we should consider and some pretty interesting perspectives on why it's not being considered by other mainstream scientists or mainstream science. We go into a lot of things here. Are we going to see the high-resolution pictures from NASA now that the government shutdown is ending?

I found his answer to be a little surprising on that, actually, or at least his take on that. and so much more as far as why this is so interesting to him and why this is something that we should be paying attention to. What are the signs? What are the dates? What's going to happen in the future with 3-I Atlas? All of it is talked about, discovered, discussed right here on UAP with myself and Avi Loeb and stick around for some previews on what's going to come next here on UAP and a little afterthoughts after this interview.

But for now, it's me, it's Avi Loeb, it's 3-I Atlas, right here on UAP. enjoy. Well, happy to bring you back on here. He's a busy guy, and it means a lot that he made some time here to come back on to UAP. Avi Loeb, Harvard Astrophysicist. Thanks so much for coming back on here to UAP. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely. So there's a lot to get to. I'll start off with here first, Avi. I know there's been some recent developments, even since you and I were speaking, just for full disclosure, because I am all about disclosure. You and I were speaking a few days ago heading into the weekend, trying to schedule things out. And even since then, there has been some developments here over the past three or four days. So what is the latest up to the minute here on Three-Eye Atlas? Right.

So actually, I think I wrote of all the maybe six essays over the past few days. And you can find them all on Medium.com. And as far as I'm concerned, you know, as a scientist, the more data we have, the better. I would love to be flooded with data. And of course, we get new data now because 3i-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-Rat-Las came closest to the sun on October 29. And the sun was between the Earth and the object. And that, again, this timing of it arriving so we can't observe it from Earth is, you know, intriguing. And the question is, was it planned by some alien intelligence?

the trajectory arrives at a special timing that allows this object to pass close to Mars, Venus and eventually Jupiter, but avoid the Earth. And on top of that, it's a giant object, you know, as big as a city, and a million times more massive than the first interstellar object, Omuamua.

And it goes in a trajectory that is aligned with the planets, the same plane. And the chance of that happening at random is one in 500. So lots of anomalies about it. I listed 10 of them. But most recently, there are lots of developments because when it came close to the sun,

there were some observatories monitoring the sun. So they watched it from a different angle than the earth, and they realized that it gets bluer than the sun, which is very surprising. It was red to start with. And then also it got bright, by a factor of five at the very least, or more than a factor of 10,

according to some observatories. And most intriguingly, it deviated from the expected path. So there is some non-gravitational acceleration detected. And that could be a result of propulsion by some technological means, for example, thrusters that may give it some boost. Or it could be pockets of... ice on the surface of a rock that get evaporated. So you get this rocket effect from the evaporation of a comet, a natural object.

And I calculated the object had to lose about 15% of its mass in order to get the boost that was observed in its velocity. And that is very substantial. So it means if it's a comet, we will be able to figure out what it's made of because it's not just the skin that was evaporated close to the sun. It's the body of the object. And most recently, just yesterday and today, there is a network of jets that are observed coming out of it,

at least seven. And these jets are narrowly collimated. We're not talking about sort of a fuzz around it, but actual collimated jets coming out of it. Now, again, it could be pockets of ice that generate a jet, or it could be thrusters. And how do we tell the difference? So this morning, you know, I woke up at 3.30 a.m.

And I basically have to work around the clock because I have so many interviews. I'm trying to do some research. And I was also teaching a class this morning. And I jog at sunrise. That's on top of everything. And I get hundreds of emails from all around the world. Anyway, so I did a calculation this morning. walk up and then I calculated that in order to so we can assess how much mass is flowing in

these jets because the ones say in the direction of the sun and by the way that's completely unusual that you see jets extending to huge distances a million kilometers away from the object in the direction of the sun and then three million kilometers away from the sun and that's the latest results and then and so So I calculated that in order for the jets to penetrate through the solar wind that is trying to stop them from the direction of the sun, in order for them to get to a distance of a million kilometers from the object, they have to be quite dense. Now, at the speed that is associated with sublimation of isis, volatiles from the surface of a natural comet, that speed is just similar to the speed of sound in Earth's, atmosphere because we're talking about similar temperatures on the surface of the object. So let's say a few hundred meters per second.

That's the typical speed of outflows that you expect from a comet at the distance that it was to the sun. So hundreds of meters per second. That means these jets need to carry a huge amount of mass to be able to penetrate through the solar wind. And I calculated that you need about 5 billion tons of material in the jets. all together. And that's a lot of mass. Okay, so if you were to imagine carbon dioxide ice or water ice being evaporated, sublimated, there is a certain amount of energy you need to provide to evaporate that.

And then you ask, how big is the surface area of this object such that it will absorb enough sunlight to provide so much mass, 5 billion tons of vapor out of the ice? And you find that it needs to have a diameter of 23 kilometers at the very least. Even if you illuminate the entire surface, you need at least 23 kilometers in diameter. But then, of course, it's only a fraction of the surface. You need more. And I did it for carbon dioxide ice, which is easy to evaporate. If you do water ice, it goes up to 50 something, more than 50 kilometers diameter.

And that's much bigger than the size of the object that was inferred. from the Hubble image. What does it mean? It means that if indeed it's a natural comet, then that comet broke up. It was decimated by the sun. When it came close to the sun, why? Because when you break up a big object

into a lot of small fragments, you have much more surface area. Okay. And so to get this large surface area that absorbs a lot of sunlight, if it's a natural comet, it was broken up. Okay, so here is the prediction. If it's a natural comet in the coming weeks,

we'll see those fragments getting separated from each other by the tidal force from the sun, the gravitational tide from the sun would separate them, and we would see a series of broken pieces from the object. That's for a natural comet. There is no way out because you just don't have enough surface area otherwise. And on the other hand, if it's a technological object, then these jets might be associated

with thrusters. And, you know, the technological thrusters that are used in spacecraft by us provide a speed, a flow speed of the, you know, the gas that comes out of the exhaust that is at least one to two orders of magnitude larger than what you get for the volatiles of a natural comet. So instead of hundreds of meters per second, you get a few kilometers per second for a chemical rocket, and you get tens of kilometers per second for an ion thruster. And, you know, in principle, alien technology, alien technology thrusters might actually give you even higher speeds. So that means that you need much less mass to be carried by these jets if you take the very high

speed of technological thrusters. So there is a very simple test. You know, if it's technology, then the fuel may be a very small fraction of the mass of the spacecraft. And in the coming weeks, we will be able to measure the speed of those jets, the composition of the jets, the mass carried by the jets. And we can easily tell the difference between an object that was decimated and in which case it's a natural object

because then we'll find the composition to be natural and the flow velocity to be associated with that of a comet. On the other hand, if we see an object that maintained its integrity and has very high-speed jets coming out of it, we would know that it must be technological. So it's very easy with future data because we can measure the velocity of the jets with spectrographs.

We have those on ground-based telescopes, but also on the Hubble telescope, the Webb Telescope. And the object, 3-I Atlas, will come closest to Earth on December 19th. And by then we should have excellent data on what's going on around it, and we will be able to tell if there are fireworks associated with it, it exploding or it's a technological object that maintain its integrity. So my hope is that, you know, we will not receive any unwanted gifts for the holidays because December 19th is just before the holiday. Yeah, that's right.

And I was actually going to ask you that. When would, I hate to put it this way, but like when would D-Day be, meaning that date where people could say, okay, how close it's going to get? When would we know if this thing is going to land on Earth? Oh, no, no. it's very unlikely to land itself on Earth. The only concern might be that it will release probes that would visit Earth. And I asked my...

It's pretty far away, right? It's like hundreds of millions of miles away as it passes by December 19th. Yeah, 250 million miles, yeah. 250 million kilometers, sorry. Gotcha. Yeah, but the question is whether it's a mothership that may release probes. and I asked members of my research team in the Galileo project to use data from our observatories.

We have three of them to check if there is any unusual activity near Earth. I also asked NASA to check if the orbiters around Mars, the rovers on Mars, notice any unusual objects there. So we should see if there is any unusual objects arriving to the planets. Hey guys, so before we get back into the conversation, I just want to talk about something that affects all of us. And it's scary. Starting something new, right? It's hard and it is kind of terrifying because you think about all the work that goes into it.

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You said it would have to lose 15% of its mass, I believe, in order to have the trajectory that it went on as far as the speed coming around the sun. Did it lose that much? And would that be something that's typical of a comet to lose that much mass in such a short amount of time? Yeah, I mean, it's not very short. It's about a month to cross closest approach to the sun. And during that time, yeah, it could have lost five billion tons if you want 15% of the mass to be evaporated. But the problem is that it needs a large surface area to release so much mass. And there is just not enough surface area, you know, if it's just five to 10 kilometers in size, you need is some 20 to 50 kilometers and that's much more.

And so the only way to accommodate the amount of mass that we see in the jets is to say, well, it broke up to pieces so that the surface area, at least tens of pieces, if not hundreds, so that the surface area of these pieces combined exceeds the original surface area of the object. So when you make a smaller piece, the smaller the fragment is, the more surface per new mass you get. Because if you break it up to tiny pieces, you have a huge amount of surface area to absorb sunlight. Just imagine a spray of tiny fragments. So, yeah, so we will know that, hopefully, in the coming weeks. It's fascinating.

There's so much to this. And to that thought, Avi, what kind of, what was the thing that made you? say to yourself, I'm going to be spending a lot of time on this because this is different. You know, we've spoken a lot about different characteristics here already. We've heard different things about the composition of this, the amount of nickel, the amount of carbon dioxide, things like that. What was, is it a mix of those things? Like, what was like one of the main things that just made you say, yeah, this is different. And I need to spend some time on this. Right. So from the beginning, as soon as it was discovered and announced on July 1st,

at 2025, I immediately did a calculation on a piece of paper. I asked, okay, given its brightness, how big should it be? Okay, and assuming that its brightness stems from a reflection from a solid surface, I calculated that the diameter needs to be 20 kilometers, and that was on the first day. And then I realized, okay, it's so massive that it makes no sense because there is not enough rocky material in interstellar space to deliver such a giant rock to the inner solar system once per decade. You would expect it once per 10,000 years or longer.

It's a very big rock. And also it's a million times more massive than Omuamua, the first interstellar object. So why haven't we seen a million of Muamua more before seeing this one? It's just a third. So it's just very surprising to see something so big. and then I realized it's actually moving in the plane of the planets around the sun

and that means maybe it was delivered to the inner solar system by some civilization with the intent of a reconnaissance mission because that would solve both problems. It would explain why it's in the plane of the planets so that it spends a lot of time in the vicinity of planets

and can release some mini-probs perhaps and it would explain why it's so big because it has nothing to do with the reservoir of rocky material. So the only thing to keep in mind is that we don't have the technology is to launch an object the size of a city to space. The biggest rocket we ever built is Starship. It's less than the size of a football field. Even with its fuel, you know, with a rocket attached to it, the fuselage.

So that means that we are way behind. whoever may have sent this. I mean, Arthur C. Clark, in his novel rendezvous with Rama, imagine a spacecraft as big as tens of kilometers is cylindrical in shape. But then, you know, it requires technology way above what we currently

possess. And if it turns out to be technological, then perhaps it will inspire us to work on such a project. You know, I believe that if we were to invest a trillion dollars a year, you know, that's a half of the military budgets worldwide. If we were to invest that in a project to build a spacecraft, a space platform that can accommodate people, so it's big enough, you know, maybe several kilometers in size, and we put the best architects, the best engineers, the best scientists, on this project. Then we might, within this century, we might be able to do that.

It's just that we don't prioritize that. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's right. And I know that's been a big thing for you when it comes to the Galileo project, trying to get some of these funds, you know, trying to get the attention of the government when it comes to these things. How inclined do you think, I know you've spoken different people in the government, you know, congressmen, senators, all these different types of positions. How inclined do you think they are in investing more resources

into this type of technology, exploration, finding answers when it comes to all these different things. Yeah, I'm not naive to think that they would do that before we have clear evidence for the first encounter. Once we have that, you know, it will become a hot political item because a lot of people will be worried about the possible threat from alien technology out there. And that's when, I believe,

we would shift large sums of money from conflicts on Earth to defending Earth against extraterrestrials, meaning that we will have to have some alert system of interceptors that take close up photographs of incoming technological objects. And, you know, it will be very expensive, but it also will be very exciting to do that. And so far, the only thing that gets some traction is the threat from rocks that may collide with Earth,

because we know the dinosaurs were killed 66 million years ago by an asteroid the size of Manhattan Island, not very far from the size of 3i Atlas, by the way. And in order for us to protect Earth, we need to find all the much smaller objects that may impact the Earth. So that actually is the reason we discovered interstellar objects because there were these surveyed telescopes,

like pan stars or... and now we have the Rubin Observatory in Chile, they were constructed in order to find near-earth asteroids, rocks. So we are fully, you know, aware of the risk from rocks in the sky, but we haven't yet discussed much the potential risk from technological objects, which is very different because you can't really predict the intent or the maneuvering of technological objects and it's much more difficult to protect Earth

and whatever we believe we should do really depends on the evidence that we will find. So after the first encounter, I think there would be a lot of will, political will, to attend to this matter because some people would get panicked. The financial markets might be volatile when we have evidence for that

because you don't know what the future may hold. I mean, as long as we survive the first encounter, perhaps by a visitor that is not really interested in us, but just passes by, but we can verify it's not a rock. It's actually some kind of technological gadget. Then I think everything will change. And the evidence for technology rather than a rock

would be in the form of it maneuvering or emitting some artificial lights or transmitting some radio signal or having, you know, some engine that produces heat that exceeds the illumination by the sun. Yeah, and this idea of thrusters is really sticking in my head just because of the way that this energy is being emitted. Why do you think, Avi, that there aren't more, you know, astrophysicists, scientists like yourself who are coming out and speaking about this? Why isn't this a bigger talking point in the scientific community where more scientists are willing to come out and at least discuss, consider this possibility that this might be something more than a comet? Yeah, the best way to think of scientists is just like artificial intelligence systems, LLMs that we're using. What they say depends on the training data set.

Okay, so in AI systems, obviously, suppose you were to train them only on comets and asteroids. These are the two types of objects that we see in the sky that we know about from the solar system. Then when you ask what is this unusual object, they would say it's a comet. You know, that's what the LLM system will say. And that's what scientists say. Why? Because their training dataset was limited to rocks, icy rocks in the solar system. and they would use the most likely interpretation based on their knowledge base.

So it's not surprising that they would interpret anything in the sky in terms of what they already saw before. And so, you know, on January 2nd, there was a near-earth object that was cataloged as an asteroid by the Minor Planet Center. And then they realized, sorry, this one is not a rock. It's actually the Tesla-Rodz the car that was launched by SpaceX. And, you know, if we didn't know that Space Space, X launched this car, we would still call it an asteroid.

They're wrong. Nobody would even notice. And my point is that they just associate anything in the sky with something we already know. And they would insist, they would ridicule any other discussion, they would push back, they would suppress any such discussion. They would not publish. They would not recommend for publication, any interpretation.

You know, if they didn't know about the SpaceX launch, they would ridicule and dismiss anyone suggesting that it may be related to the space as long. So it's just the nature of the discourse, you know, that people are appealing to what they already know and they are not willing to be imaginative. But we know that we ourselves, you know, polluted space with technological objects. So why would we not consider the possibility that there was a more accomplished space entrepreneur since the Big Bang? then Elon Musk, you know, like out there, there may be a car, an interstellar car that arrives at our backyard rather than the Tesla road to car. And all of my colleagues would never notice it.

They would say it's a rock of a type that we've never seen before. You know, when a Muamua showed up, it was declared as a dark comet, meaning a comet where we don't see the evidence for a comet. There was no cometary tail, no gas, no dust. But it was exhibiting some non-gravitational acceleration. So, you know, that's the way a spacecraft would behave, but you would still call it a dark comet, as if there is some cometary tale that we can't see. And it just shows you that the mainstream would do anything to suppress imaginative thinking, you know, to suppress alternative thoughts. And it's really unfortunate because we might be missing something important. It might be a lot of traffic of technological gadgets through the solar system.

and as we get more and more interstellar objects, eventually it will become clear, but that these are not just rocks. But for that, we need some open-mindedness, you know. And just imagine any spacecraft going through space will have some ice on its surface. So if you see some ice evaporating, you might say, oh, yes, confirmed, it's a comet.

No, it's just the skin of the object that was evaporated. How do you know it's a comet? And that's the way that the scientists are responding to it. It's really unfortunate because, you know, they are not willing to entertain more imaginative possibilities. And they don't connect to the public. Frankly, the public finds it very frustrating where scientists are confident without having evidence. Yeah, because it seems like there's a lot of commentary out there one way or the other. Most of it actually leans towards, oh, this is obviously comments.

Let's not even bother talking about it. And I think that's what makes your approach so unique is that you're willing to talk about and look at the data and say, here's what we're seeing. And this is why we should at least consider. By the way, I get a lot of traction beyond the few zealots that are opposing me within the scientific community. There are other people that very much appreciate, mostly young people. There were just three articles yesterday, one by the New York Times, another by the free press, and a third. one by the Times of Israel, all about my arguments, the research I'm doing. The basic point I'm making is that it's very different from the typical scientific topic

that the scientists are engaged with, where there is no implications for society. If you deal with a galaxy at the edge of the universe, billions of flight years away, it wouldn't change our life if we get it wrong. So scientists are used to adapting the most likely interpretation because, you know, if they are wrong, who cares? Nothing will change. But in this case, we have a visitor to our backyard.

The visitor may come through the front door, and it poses a threat to humanity. There are implications. So under these circumstances, it's well known within the intelligence, the political circles, that you have to entertain the possibility of black swan events.

These are events where you assume it's a very low probability that they would materialize. Just think about potential threats from terrorist attacks. So in those cases, most of them are not realized, but nevertheless, a lot of money is being spent in trying to track all the information, all the data that would indicate

whether there is a risk or not. It's a lot of effort that is going in direction of low likelihood events that would have large implications to society. So it's well recognized within the political system, within the intelligence agencies, that this is a serious matter that you always have to consider black swan events, okay?

But scientists, if they are faced with a black swan situation, they would say, oh, it's 98% the common interpretation that we have. Therefore, we completely dismissed possibility the 2% that it might be something else, and we will ridicule and push back against anyone who suggests that and say that it's anti-scientific to consider the 2% possibility. What they're missing is if the 2% possibility brings in, huge implications for society, you can dismiss it because you multiply a huge implication by a small probability, you get a big number. So anyone notices that, except for the mainstream

scientists who are still adopting the same approach to these Black Swan events as they do to a galaxy at the edge of the universe that would have no impact whatsoever. So I'm trying to explain that to scientists. You can't do that in situations where you have an imminent threat, even if you assign a small probability for that, you have to collect as much data as possible about it and not ignore it. That's a very simple point. And the second point is the public really cares a lot about the question of whether interstellar objects might be technological. The public funds science. So we cannot just dismiss it, ridiculate and move on and ignore it. That's not the right approach. The right approach is to say, okay, let's consider it seriously. Let's look at all the data. Is it still viable?

if it's not viable, explain why. Why can you rule out or why can you explain all the anomalies of 3A Atlas in terms of standard, you know, familiar processes in comets? If you can't explain the anomalies, then don't ridicule the possibility that is technological. And so these are two important points. And somehow those scientists are missing both of them. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of. businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S.

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In a place like Los Angeles, people don't stop being who they are. Writers, thinkers, creators, people with stories still unfolding. That spirit lives on at Kingsley Manor, a community shaped by individuality, creativity, and lives well lived. So when the conversation turns to what's next, it isn't about stepping away. It's about continuing the story. Explore your options at Kingsley Manor.org. a nonprofit month-to-month senior community within the Front Forge family. Would you characterize Three-Eye Atlas as any type of possible threat?

Or is that, is threat too strong of a word, do you think? No, I would, okay, I defined a new scale back in July that is now called the lobe scale. There are three scientific papers about it, where zero is a natural object of no implications to society. and as long as it doesn't collide with Earth, as long as it goes on its path far away. And 10 is a definitely technological object that could be a threat. And my proposal is to use all the data,

collect all the data that we can in order to give any interstellar object a rank on this scale. And of course, scientists should advise policymakers accordingly. So I think that's the way we should approach it. And I initially, because of the anomalies of three Atlas, I gave it a rank of four. So the most likely scenario is still that it's natural, but nevertheless, it's something we should check and verify. And I'm waiting for the coming weeks before I revise my ranking because we should know much more about it as it gets closer to Earth. The lobe scale. I love that. So according to the lobes scale,

then that's where that 40% comes from. Because I remember there was a lot of talk about where you said there was about a 40% chance that this might be something artificial. So that 4 to 10 on the load scale, that's where we get that 40% then. Right. And you can find all the details on Medium.com

if you just put avidlaw at Medium.com. There are many updates on 3i Atlas and you can find the latest data and the interpretation that I provide to that data. Something I'm curious about Avi, and I know your time is limited, so I'll try to fit a few more in here before we're done. But something's changed since the last time we've spoken, and that is now the government shutdown is ending. And if we look back at the beginning of October when 3i Atlas was making its pass by Mars and some of the high resolution imagery scopes that were out there from NASA and otherwise, everybody was waiting, hey, this is it. we're going to be able to see these pictures, boom, government shuts down.

NASA says we can't see the pictures because the government shut down. That's ending now. So can we expect you think, or if you're hearing any word, can we expect to see these long-awaited high-res images from NASA? Yeah, I was in contact with Representative Anna Paulina Luna, who very graciously agreed to send a letter to the acting administrator of NASA, Sean Duffy, asking that, that, these images will be released, you know, despite the government shutdown, they exist on a computer

somewhere in a university, you know, and they can be released by scientists who are not government officials. They're not under the shutdown, you know, and for some bureaucratic reason, she was told that it's not possible to release the data, even though it's very little effort, and NASA is sharing other types of data for some reason. This particular, data is kept under wraps until the shutdown is over. And someone at NASA decided that. And I think it's unfortunate because science should not be sabotaged by the politics of the day. You know, this data could have helped us design upcoming observations, depending on what it shows.

But that's what she was told. And then as soon as the government shutdown is over, this data will be released. She was promised. So I very much look forward to seeing that. But by now we have so much data after closest approach to the sun, you know, that perhaps all data will not be too exciting anymore because we're seeing these jets that might have not existed back then. And at any event, it's really unfortunate.

At the same time that she sent the letter, we had Sean Duffy responding to Kim Kardashian, who sent a tweet about Triadla. She was very curious and he said, he responded and said that, you know, it's not alien technology, believe me, it's just, you know, it's just a comet and explain to her what he thinks this is. And so, you know, once again,

and the truth of the matter is up to data, not up to administrators telling, a celebrity, you know, what they think it is. You know, the scientific process is, the foundation of the scientific process is curiosity and humility to learn something new from data rather than the arrogance of expertise, as if we know the answer, we are the adults in the room,

we will tell you what it is and keep you quiet. That's not really the right approach. The right approach is that of a kid saying, I want to figure it out, or a detective, Let's look at the data at the clues and figure it out. That's the right approach in science. It's not a system where hierarchy, authority dictates the truth. It's the data that we should be guided by what nature shows us

because for a simple reason, nature is sometimes more imaginative than even the best script writers in Hollywood. So we should allow nature to tell us. And of course, you might suspect based on very limited data what the answer is. But you should say, let's wait a few more weeks, you know, get more data and have a very clear picture of what this object is, right?

And the advantage of that is that it gives the public the sense that it's work in progress. Science is always work in progress. And it's a learning experience. We are not pretending to tell you what we think it is. Instead, let's both look at images and make sure that there is no other interpretation. And I hope that would have been the message given, but it was not.

So at any event, I'm looking forward to being educated by future images, future data on the jets. Yeah, and one of those factors, too, that have been really interesting is, if I can go back to something you said earlier, that the object's 3-Ey Atlas turned more blue than the sun. Yes. So what does that mean exactly for any? anybody who might not be familiar with the coloration and why it would all of a sudden turn more blue? Yes. So in principle, hot objects are bluer if they are hotter. And the sun has a surface temperature of 5,800 degrees. So 3i-A Atlas, given its distance, should have been 20 times cooler

and therefore redder than the sun. And moreover, if it was, if it's surrounded by dust, it would make it redder. So it's surprising for us to see it bluer. And there are two possible interpretations. One, if there are molecules like carbon monoxide that emit in the blue band, maybe that's the reason for that blue color. Or maybe there is an engine which is hot. And that's why it gives us the blue color or maybe some artificial lights emitted by the object.

Who knows? So we just don't. don't know the explanation, but once we will have spectroscopy, we will be able to tell what kind of blue light is it? Is it really spectral lines of some molecule, or is it emission from a hot surface? I am curious, just on an unrelated note, Avi, what has this been like for you the past few months? Has this been like the craziest past few months of your career, or is this just kind of another day at the office? Because you're everywhere. It's quite remarkable because now every essay I put on Medium.com is read by of older 100,000 people. It's more than you expect from a

newspaper, you know, that puts a scientific article out. And by the way, these are not tweets. I mean, it's easy to gain a large audience when you have just, you require just five seconds of attention. But here, people have to read my essay for five minutes. There was an editor that commented of a science journal who said that you're speaking a scientific language, you're not speaking English, as if I'm not accommodating to what the public can absorb. And I replied, look, I have 100,000 followers. Apparently it's working. And this person who was making the comment, he has about 1,300 followers on the same outlet, medium. So, So my point is that the message I'm delivering is resonating with the public.

People are extremely curious all over the world. I get email messages from parents who say our kids are now excited to become scientists. One pilot said my daughter is now she wants to be a scientist. And from South America I received an email from a mother who said my son now wants me to buy him a telescope for the holidays. And every day when he comes back from school, he asks me, what about three Ayatlas? And, you know, I just,

our dishwasher at home just broke down. Okay, so I called the company and said, as that I would like to order a new one. Okay? And the guy says, are you Avilob? I follow you all the time. And I recognize your voice from the podcast and from television interviews.

it's such a great honor to speak with you. Now, I cannot imagine that just, you know, I'm trying to place an order for a dishwasher. You know, the person who, we had some work on a tree that we had to cut in our backyard, and a person comes and says, my wife asks me, what are you actually doing? Because she saw you on TV.

And so I gave him the link of the Joe Rogan podcast. Right. It's very, you know, the, the outreach is very broad and I'm bringing people to appreciate science and get excited by it. And that's not trivial at all. You know, all these popularizers of science that are just trying to be liked, like Neil DeGrasse Tyson or Brian Cox, you know, this. I didn't hear a lot of stories of young kids saying to their mothers or fathers that they want to become scientists because they heard those people. because these people are just recycling what other people are doing.

They're reporting about what I'm just talking about what I'm engaged in. And I have sort of the sense of saying that it's work in progress, that it's actually a learning experience. People resonate with that. So that's great. You know, it's a great opportunity to show that science can be fun and exciting. And you don't need to assume that, you know, the answer in advance. You don't need to pretend to be the adult in the room.

It's just driven by curiosity. and there is a chance that we might find something amazingly exciting, you know, so let's figure it out. Let's look at the data and see what it means. And so, yeah, so, you know, there was even a racer at the NASCAR car race a few weeks ago that put my image plus three-a-adlas on the hood of his car, and I went to that race. Now he wants me to drive, his name is Alex Maliki. me to drive in the next race.

There you go. He showed me how to drive. My wife says she doesn't want me to take any risks. It's pretty dangerous when you drive it at the speed. But the highest speed of the fastest car on earth is 600 times slower than 3i Atlas. And just imagine that. It is amazing. So, I mean, the real question is here, Avi, did you get a free dishwasher?

out of this? I mean, come on. Yeah, not really. Because I have to, you know, as of now, I have to clean the dishes at home. Oh, no. My wife does not give up on my duties at home. And Thanksgiving is coming up. So there will be a lot of dishes. And I hope the dishwasher will arrive before Thanksgiving. Yeah, I hope so for you as well. I hate doing dishes. So I completely understand. I mean, are you going to be getting together with Kim Kardashian here soon as well? I will see. I invited her to join my research team just because she's excited about Three-I Atlas. That's the spirit.

And I haven't heard back from her. I was in communication with a lot of celebrities in recent months and also high net wealth individuals. So there is a lot of excitement out there. And I'm just trying to do my work. And if people find it exciting, that's excellent. And, you know, I think this is an interesting visitor that we have, but we may have many more that will be discovered by the Rubin Observatory in the coming decade. And it's just the beginning of a new era, an era of discoveries in a way that we never anticipated.

It's the first time that we have big objects coming into the solar system recognized from outside the solar system. And this is an opportunity for us to learn what lies beyond the solar system. Even if it's rocks, we can study them and check, for example, by bringing materials, whether they carry the building blocks of life as we know it. There are lots of opportunities here. And the astronomy community is slow to recognize them, by the way. Well, you know, as time goes on and more of these things possibly come up, like you said,

hopefully there's more discussion and the curiosity is great and I think that's what's so great about having these discussions is just that natural curiosity everybody kind of gets into it and even if it is another comet there's still so much we can learn from this unusual very unusual comments so and you've been extremely generous with your time of you I love having you on here on UAP so I'll get you out here on this what are the kind of landmark events that we should look out for over the next month or so as far as 3a Atlas is concerned well December 19th is when it will come closest to Earth, and that's when we will get the most data on it from ground-based telescopes, but also space telescopes, like the Hubble and the web telescopes. So just before the holidays, we will be flooded with data.

It will be clear what this object is, I hope, and it should be exciting. Let's just stay curious and figure it out. It's great fun, you know, like any detective story, to figure out based on the clues, what the nature of this object is. And it turns up being technological, obviously it will inspire us to do better. That's my hope and bring humanity to a better place.

Very good. Avi Loeb, thanks so much for coming on here to you AP. Hopefully we can keep up. We can do this again sometime soon and see what happens. Yes, I would be delighted to do that. Thank you. Absolutely. Thanks, Avi. So thank you again to Avi Loeb for that interview.

Really a pleasure to talk to him. And I know, look, and we kind of spoke about it. there are, you know, maybe towards the middle or towards the end-ish of the discussion, which is, you know, why aren't other mainstream scientists, astrophysicists talking about this? And there are a lot of other people who clearly say, yeah, this is a comet. Why are we spending time talking about it? And there are others saying, this isn't a comet. It doesn't have the traditional tale. It doesn't have this, this, and that. It has X, Y, and Z as far as the elements and all the different, the makeup of it as far as the different, you know, nickel and the hydrogen and the carbon

dioxide and all these things that Avi and I spoke about there. So there's these varying factors and varying opinions on what 3i Atlas could be, what it truly is, you know, now this thruster effect that he spoke about. So there's a lot, in my opinion, at least to consider. There's nothing wrong with considering the other options, right? Yeah, it could absolutely be just another comment. But even if it is a comment, and I've mentioned this before, I think it's worth mentioning it again, it's still something that should be studied because if it is just a comet, it's a

comment that, you know, the likes of which we've never really seen before. It has all these unusual characteristics, a lot of which we went over there. So happy to discuss that with the man himself, Avi Loeb, who is kind of leading the way on this discussion publicly anyway in this discourse about three-eye Atlas. And as always, you make up your own mind, right? That's what it's all about here on UAP. Always has been. Always will be. So thank you again to Avi for all of that. Really good stuff. And I'm going to cover this more actually coming up on episode 170 of UAP.

So what I'm going to do coming up here is something I've actually maybe have only done once or twice in the history of UAP, which is to come back and discuss a previous episode to actually make an episode discussing a previous episode of UAP. And I want to do this with what we just spoke about there with Avi Loeb because I think there's a few details there, maybe more than a few, that we could really dive into on some things that Avi said. So I want to spend time kind of diving into some of his answers and diving into Eric Burleson's answers as well on that two-part series that I did with him last week concerning a bunch of different topics about what's happening with the UFO topic in Congress

in D.C., future hearings, anything like that. What's, you know, all the things that Eric and I spoke about in those two previous episodes. So I think it's worthy of that. You know, I always like to push ahead what's next. What are we going to be talking about next? Who are we talking to next? Always new topics, always new discussions. And sometimes, though, I think it's worth kind of slowing down a little bit and recapping a little bit, looking back a little bit and kind of thinking, kind of dwelling on some of the discussions that we had. And I think the past two discussions, you know, the part two, Eric Burleson and this one with Avi Loeb are absolutely worth that second look and to just kind of have that deep dive on some of the answers that they gave because they're heavy topics

and I believe their answers in some cases have a lot of implications to what they said. So I don't want to just blow past those and move on to the next thing. I think it's worth spending some time to look at those episodes, to look at those discussions and say, okay, let's look back at these answers and this part of it and really kind of dig into it and just you know kind of discuss some of those things more because it's worthy of that in my opinion and I hope you think so too. So I look forward to really kind of doing that in the next episode of UAP and kind of discovers maybe some things that we missed and instead of glossing over it and just pushing ahead, let's kind of focus on some of these things because they were important. So that's

coming up here on UAP as well as a guest. I've never had here on the show. I've been meaning to reach out to him for a while now, maybe even over a year. If you're not familiar with him, Jordan Crowder. Jordan Crowder has a huge presence on social media, especially on YouTube and on Twitter on X there. He has his own podcast actually called Conscious Observers. And again, really interesting guy. If you've never followed him before, his podcast is on Spotify. It's on YouTube.

It's on Apple a lot like, you know, where UAP goes, you know, a lot of those same channels. And he's just a very interesting follow. when it comes to the UFO topic. He looks into a lot of more of the phenomenon side of things and consciousness. And so really, really interesting, dude. I've been following his material, his topics on Twitter for a long time now. And I reached out to him and he's like, yeah, let's do it. So I'm looking forward to having him on Jordan Crowder here on UAP next week.

That's going to be an awesome discussion. We're going to cover a lot of different topics on consciousness and spirituality on the UAP phenomenon on and how it all connects. So I'm looking forward to speaking with Jordan Crowder here on UAP next week. But again, that deep dive on the past couple of episodes coming up here on UAP in a few short days. So I hope you enjoyed this discussion, all this topic here with Avi Loeb. And I look forward to coming back with you here soon on UAP with a lot of this, what I'll

try to make great stuff coming up here on the Unidentified Alien podcast. So until then, be sure to continue to download and subscribe to the show wherever you you get your podcast rated five stars and follow along on social media as well. So just search UAP on all the platforms, Spotify, Apple, Amazon, YouTube. I have some stuff up on there as well. I'm going to try to get some of these videos up there with myself and Eric Burleson with Avi Loeb and some of the other video interviews I've done recently so I can get more material up on YouTube.

So follow along there at UA Podcast on YouTube and at UA Podcast 850 on the other social media channels, TikTok, Twitter, especially, at UA Podcast 850. And you can send me messages, as you know, on any of those social media channels, and through email S-Diener-U-A-P at g-mell.com, S-D-I-E-N-E-R-U-A-P at gmail.com. But thank you again to Avi Lov for this, for all of his time. I mean, he was up against it and he made some extra time for me for the show here

so we could discuss all of this. And I am still shocked that he didn't get a free dishwasher. I got to say, I thought when the dishwasher, guy, he heard his voice and recognized who he was. I really thought he was getting a free dishwasher out of that, but hey, we all just, we're all the same, right? We're all washing our dishes and we do what our wives tell us to do.

So that's how things go. So really cool discussion there with Avi and I look forward to having him on again in the future, having Jordan Crowder on here next week on UAP, and so much more coming up. So stick around and stay tuned. So until next time, it is Stephen Deiner here saying thank you again

so much for everything, for all the support for all the kind words. It really does mean the world to me. So thank you so much for that. So I'll talk to you again soon right here on UAP. Until then, thanks. Be well. Talk again soon on the Unadentified Alien Podcast.