UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 176 Getting into "Good Trouble" with Matt Ford - Part 2

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

Stephen Diener concludes his conversation with the host of the "Good Trouble Show" Matt Ford, as they discuss some very compelling issues. Would you grant immunity to those from the legacy program that want to come out and tell the truth? What has stopped countries like China and Russia from being the first nations to disclose? And what does Elon Musk know about any cover ups that are taking place? All of this and so much more right now...Go to https://surfshark.com/uap or use code UAP at checkout to get 4 extra months of Surfshark VPN! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Everybody talked about it since I first moved to Oregon. The big one, the earthquake that trashed the whole West Coast, total destruction. Officially calling it the largest natural disaster in American history. I just didn't know what would help me next. So I took it all, even the gun. Did you kill them, Scella? When I give you a target, I'm not asking for you to hit it tomorrow or later. My orders come before food.

They come before sleep. I understand, sir. I don't think you do, son. I'd wasted enough days already. It was time. Time for what, Scylla? Time to find my mom. You know, we have files on her.

Your mom was active on a lot of dark websites. I spent the next month wondering where she was, whether she was alive, how I could find her. Now I wish I never did. Listen to the number one fiction and drama podcast, American Afterlife on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your shows, presented by pair of thieves available now.

Everybody talked about it since I first moved to Oregon. The big one, the earthquake that trashed the whole west coast, total destruction. Officially calling it the largest natural disaster in American history. I just didn't know what would help me next, so I took it all. Even the gun. It was time. Selo? American afterlife, presented by pair of thieves,

The number one fiction and drama podcast in America. Listen wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Available now. You know what the real dream is? To have more weekend in our week. And that's what happens when you stay at Treasure Island, Las Vegas. I mean, they've got it all. High-stakes adventure at the tables.

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with matt ford part two of my discussion with him hosted the good trouble show on youtube and anywhere else you get your podcast and he was great i mean just an awesome discussion back and forth. And, you know, it was, it was so long that I kind of just wanted to split up into two different parts. So hopefully you enjoyed part one. If you want to go back and, you know, here's some of the highlights there by all means for this part two. Well, we're going to dive right back in, really, and pick up where we left off. And we pick up actually speaking about an interview that Elon Musk had recently. Because that's always one of the big questions is, what does Elon know? And funny enough, the reason why I brought this up to Matt was because

Elon brought up the question himself. So I wanted to kind of get Matt's thoughts on that. And, you know, what kind of knowledge does Elon Musk have? And if he's hiding anything, which is up for debate, obviously. So we get into some of those things. And why does all this stay a secret? Right. If all this is true, when it comes to, you know, reverse engineering and secret governments,

installations and everything we've spoken about when it comes to the UAP phenomenon, the UFO phenomenon, why does it stay a secret? So we get into that a little bit. And also, why don't the adversaries? If adversaries have some of this tech as well and they know the big secret, why don't they come out and say it before the U.S. does and try to get a one-up on the United States? So there are some really deep discussions and these deep topics that I wanted to get into with Matt,

and I'm glad that we did, as well as should there be pardons, should there be immunity for those within the program who want to come out and talk about it, but fear some type of retribution. Again, a controversial subject, but we get into a lot of it here and a lot more too as well, right here on UAP. So great discussion. Looking forward to hearing the rest of this conversation with Matt Ford in part two right now, myself, Matt Ford from The Good Trouble Show right here on UAP.

Enjoy. There was something that came to mind, Matt, when you were just talking about that. Elon Musk did an interview that I just came across. It's not really a show that I consume, though I'm sure she does a great job. It's the Katie Miller podcast. And Katie Miller had on Elon Musk. I believe she works for one of his companies, if I'm not mistaken, because otherwise, how do you get Elon Musk on your show? And she asked him, is there a conspiracy theory that you believe in that other people maybe don't believe in?

And he started kind of laughing. He's like, oh, most of them have come true. And then he said, but the. one that, and he actually brought it up himself, which I found interesting, he said the one that people always ask me about is aliens. And he started talking about how, you know, no one in SpaceX, none of the senior executives there or senior scientists at SpaceX or himself have come across evidence of actual intelligent life says probably just some type of, you know, special access programs. So if that's the case and then kind of couple all this together, what is

the big secret, right? Is it just special access programs? Why do people go through the trouble? Right? We're talking about this, the deep state essentially. We're talking about the deep state where they will go through all this trouble to keep a secret for decades and decades upon decades. Generations of intelligence officers pass the baton of secrecy. Why do they go through all this misinformation, all these tactics to keep this secret? What is it? If it's more than, you know, and just special access programs and top secret tech that we're trying to one-up China and Russia with. What is so big that we want to keep this secret from the world for the past 80 years? I mean, I have a couple of theories.

I'll say this about Elon. Watch his fingers. He starts to get really nervous with that question. Now, I didn't watch the rest of the interviews. Maybe he was doing that the whole time. I have no idea. But to me, his body language was, was. a bit uncomfortable.

Now, the thing I don't know about Elon is if he certainly has a secret clearance. I don't know because of where he, because he wasn't born here or whatever, I don't know if he has a T.S. You know, typically, as I understand it, as somebody that, like, does pot, you can't get a secret or a T.S. So I suppose it's possible. He hasn't been read into the whole kitten caboodle. Now, interesting story.

I was in Santa Barbara about six to eight months ago. I think it was maybe in the spring. And I was sitting at this bar drinking a water. I don't drink alcohol, but while my wife and some friends were out and about, and this guy came and sat next to me and he was older than me. And we started chatting. And he said, oh, yeah, I just retired and just relaxing. And I said, oh, what did you do?

And he goes, oh, I was an executive at SpaceX. So first thing I'm thinking is, okay, is this guy like, you know, from the intelligence community and he's trying to like, you know, prime me for info or whatever. So we kept talking and he wasn't, I finally came to the conclusion he wasn't trying to work me. And so, and he was talking about, you know, so I'm asking him, well, what's he, you know, did you work around Elon? And he says, yeah. And he, this guy was in charge of basically going. finding large machinery to produce things. So he was talking about how, yeah, Elon was who he answered to.

And he went into great length, saying he feels bad for how much heat Elon's had and this, that, and the other. So that's probably like a 30, 45-minute conversation. And then at the end, towards the end of this, I say to him, I said, well, you know, what do you think about this whole UAP thing? There were congressional hearings that say that we have, that the defense aerospace has this legacy program to recover and reverse engineer UAPs.

And this guy's body language completely changed. He started shifting in his seat and sort of stuttered a couple of times and he changed the subject completely. Like he made it very talk about that. So, you know, I kind of took that as a clue that maybe SpaceX is involved in this and the legacy program or at the very least with their space-based stuff, they're seeing UAP. I would be surprised if they weren't. So, you know, so let's say that SpaceX does have contracts related to the legacy program. The last thing Elon is going to want to do is screw up that cash cow.

Sure. Let's say that he was red end all of that because he's ahead of SpaceX. He's probably going through his mind, okay, what was in the security classification guide? Okay, I have to say, if I get asked X, I have to say why. Say why. So, you know, that could have been it. I mean, it is possible he doesn't know, but I would be really surprised if he weren't. To answer your original question, I, I think that there are probably a whole myriad of reasons that this whole thing has been locked down. I would say probably, in my view, the top three reasons now. I'm not going to speak to like the 1950s because I think it was in some ways a more complex arena in terms of messing with religion and family and all that kind of stuff. But in this kind of information age, I suspect it's, it's, it's, primarily the abduction phenomena, the fact that the government can't do anything to stop that, the fact that UAPs cause biological damage to brains, that is something we'll be speaking about on my show down the line, but you know, you've heard that from Gary Nolan, all these other folks.

I mean, that's just a fact. So I think probably primarily is the abduction issue. The second issue, I believe, is one of the primary reasons, especially as it relates to the United States Air Force, is this long and ongoing history, this isn't historical, this is happening today, of UAP tampering and or retargeting or taking offline our nuclear delivery systems, and namely the Minuteman 3, the Trident Missile on our SSBN. So you know, so you have these things flying around and disabling parts of our nuclear triad. That, in my view, and I've said it many times publicly, that in my view is why the Senate, United States Senate, should have held hearings on this yesterday. So you have these vehicles operating with impunity, disabling, tampering, and retargeting our nation's strategic nuclear weapons, I mean, that's a big freaking deal. And I would imagine that the U.S.

Air Force, the CIA, the NSC, they do not want that out. And as a matter of fact, if you go and you look at the article by Joel Sheckman and Aruna Veswanatha on the Wall Street Journal, really the core push of that article was that the nuclear incident that happened with Robert Salas was just some DOE experiment. They are doing everything they can to get rid of that nuclear angle, because why? The nuclear angle is the one thing Congress cannot ignore. So if the people out of the legacy program and the CIA,

if they want this to go away as best they can, one of the core part of that communication strategy is going to be to try and make the nuclear stuff go away. Discredit the witnesses. That's just part of information operations. That's called I.O. That's what they do. That's why they're doing it.

So the abduction phenomena, the nuclear weapons angle, and then thirdly, I would say it's it's the fact that our, government gone to extraordinary lengths to do extraordinarily bad things to Americans to cover this up. They have killed people. They have threatened people. They have bugged people's homes. They have retaliated in terms of flagging their security clearances. They've threatened their spouses. They threatened their children. The bad stuff, really bad stuff that has come out of the National Security Council and the CIA over a very long period of time.

I think when that comes out, and it's going to come out, I think Americans are going to really be flogical. looked out by that. I think that in and of itself has the potential to be incredibly politically destabilizing for the American government when all of that does come out into the light, and it will. And I think it will be, you know, when all of this comes out, and it will, the American people are going to go, okay, you lied to us for 80 plus years about this thing. what else did you lie to us about? Right. Did you kill other people, let's say that we're trying to whistleblow on Havana syndrome or anomalous health injuries?

Did you, you know, my best friend is a whistleblower who's a former IC, and she has another friend who is interested in this topic. that's friends with this whistleblower, and then they get messed with, their clearance is flagged or whatever so that these people can't make a living. The amount of felonies that these people have participated in would probably fill an entire building in terms of papers. So I think those are kind of the main components. Hey guys, so before we get back into the conversation, I do want to talk about something that is a very real threat, which is who's watching you? I know that might sound scary, but here's the real thing, the endless swarm of trackers that stock your every click. Your digital

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So go to surfshark.com slash UAP or use UAP at checkout to get four extra extra. months of Surf Shark VPN. That's UAP at checkout. Now, Lou Elizondo and others have stated that there needs to be some kind of sort of, you know, reconciliation or give these people legal cover for them to come forward and say, these are the bad things we did, admit it fully, and then they are given, and they're granted a pardon. Yeah, I was actually just about to ask you about that because Eric Burleson brought that up here

about a month or so ago, I think I had him on here. And he brought that up that, you know, they're trying to work out a way and it's controversial. And I actually wanted to get your opinion. So I'm glad you brought it up. They're trying to work out a way where they can get immunity, right? Use the eye word immunity. Some people don't like to hear that because you want accountability

and how much accountability you're going to have if you have immunity. But his point was, that they're trying to work out a way if they can get some type of immunity or reconciliation to Lou Elizondo's term for these people who are in these programs that know what has been done. Maybe they didn't perpetrate it themselves, right?

But they know about it. And as they started working, now all of a sudden, oh my gosh, I'm stuck in this program. I didn't know this was going on. So, and these are the people that when Eric Burleson was talking about it here, he said there's about 50 people. He said close to four dozen that want to talk about this stuff.

And these are intelligence officials. He said both intelligence and military officials who he has spoken to that want to talk about these things, but they're afraid of the repercussions. So if there can be some type of reconciliation or in some cases even immunity for people who maybe weren't directly involved with these things, what is your take on that?

And how do you see that playing out? I do think it's important to an, extent. I mean, you know, here's the thing, you know, if there are a bunch of people in the legacy program that have serious Fifth Amendment concerns, and they should be concerned, people out of the IC, especially like, you know, J-Soc in other places, these people have done stuff that would land them in jail for life if it were, if they were doing it as a civilian. So, I do think there needs to be some kind of reconciliation process because, look, you know, if, if, if you know that you go and you testify to Congress and you may end up being prosecuted for

murder or, or whatever, you're probably not going to come forward. You're thinking about your family, your wife, your kids, what it's going to do to them. Not to mention, you're like, I'm to get locked up in, you know, and Leavenworth for the rest of my life. Right. Of course they're not going to come forward. So there needs to be something like that that covers it. You know, and the other thing I'll say, too, is, you know, these people down the chain, these soldiers, former special forces and whatnot that have done really bad things such as what works, they're doing their job. They were, they executed on a mission that they were given,

by their superiors. That's what you do in the military. That's what you do in the intelligence community. And I would suspect when you're knee-deep-in all of that and you're still doing that as part of the government, maybe not necessarily as a private contractor, it's drilled into your head that what you're doing is you're protecting national security.

Joe Blow from EGNG is going to blow the whistle on the entire legacy program and blow this thing skywide, and the National Security Council has deemed this individual a clear and present danger to the United States by the disclosures he or she is going to make. And they make the decision, hey, look, we, you know, we got to, this guy needs to disappear, or this woman needs to disappear. That happens. And the person that is breaking into their home and that person's killing themselves by,

or the target is killing themselves by shooting themselves in the back of their head four times, that person doing it thinks that they're doing it for the protection of the national security of the United States. So, you know, it's not a whole black and white issue. I mean, it is black and white that it's wrong. But in terms of like how, what kind of immunity or whether you prosecute or whatever, there would have to be a lot worked out. But I will say that if nothing is done in that area, then, yeah, these people aren't going to come forward. The final thing I'll say about that is there is legal immunity that can be given.

However, these folks know that if they go rogue, there's a chance something may happen to their daughter. There's a chance something may happen to their wife. There's a chance something may happen to them. And it's going to be off the books. and it's going to be unattributable, or not attributable. So, you know, these folks know that, okay, maybe they've got the legal cover. These folks know that, okay, maybe they're protected by current federal whistleblower statutes and can go in and talk to Senator Gillibrand or whatever.

But they also know, especially these folks that, you know, are in DOE and are part of, you know, part of dealing with restricted and previously restricted data for DOE, these folks know that, okay, I may go talk to Senator Gillibrand, but it's going to get back to the legacy program that I went and spoke to Jillibrand or whoever, and guess what? The security contractor that works for the legacy program, you're contractors, you know, they're going to pay me a visit in the middle of the night. Hey guys, so before we get back into the conversation, I just want to talk about something that affects

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Yeah. It's startling. I mean, there's so many angles to this. Do you think this is why some people don't want to get into it, Matt? Do you think this is why, you know, the everyday person, I kind of used the term the 630 news crowd, meaning, you know, you go about your day, you go about your life, you're taking care of your family, you're taking care of your day-to-day, all the different things, and you catch up on the news later on, and you're not paying attention to these things day in and day out like you and I are, where we're entrenched in it. Do you think that's the thing that people would be shocked the most to learn about is the absolute depths that the government has allegedly gone through to keep this a secret,

the threats, the coercion, the, in some cases, we talk about, you know, allegedly actual murders, assassinations, and, you know, career threats. Like this stuff, by all accounts of the people we've spoken to, has gone on and does go on. Do you think that's one of the main reasons why some people just say, I'm not getting into this? Well, I think the average American has no. no idea about, like I think they're going to say, oh yeah, we're, you know, we're not surprised the government covers that up. They cover up, you know, all kinds of stuff. They're not looking at it from the lens of, okay, what does that cover up entail in terms of bad things that we

have done to Americans? Americans understand, I would say, for the most part, that our United States government goes overseas and does. bad things to bad people. They kill terrorists. They do all sorts of things that are, you know, secret squirrel stuff. That's not going to surprise Americans. They know that's the American government protecting America to make sure that the bad guys overseas don't come here and do bad things to us or do bad things to Americans overseas. That's expected. That's absolutely expected. What I would say, they will not, is not expected what will be wildly surprising to them is the fact that

we've, that our United States government has done really bad things to Americans, that the United States has done really bad things to the men and women who have worn the uniform and perhaps given the ultimate sacrifice to this country. That is what I think they have no clue is going on. And that is why, you know, I think, you know, like I think that overall, like everybody, a great majority of the world population is not going to be surprised when they're told that you AP are here, their beings here, all that kind of stuff. I think, you know, at a, at a low level, they're going to, they're not going to be surprised about it. And they'll be like, oh, yeah, we've figured. You know, you are going to, you are going to, at a low level. You know, you are going to,

going to have a portion of the population that always thought that we were not the only intelligence in the universe, but mentally we're not prepared to make the jump that they are here. You're going to have a portion of the population that that will be a shock to, that they are here. Then, you know, then I think you have a smaller cohort. that have always felt that we're the only game in the universe, and that'll be obviously a big shock. But I think overall the issue of disclosing to the public the bad things, the CIA has done to Americans over a very long period of time,

really probably since their inception, I think that's going to really rattle, that's going to be probably, probably close to have the same, almost the same weight of rattling people as the issue of NHI are here. I think they're not going to expect what would come out. Amazing really to think about it. On that, I want to go back to something you said a little while ago or a little while back now on what you're going to be talking about on your show, on the Good Trouble Show. And if I always, I seem to always kind of over. in some of the questions that I asked just because of my curiosity.

So if by all means, if you don't want to say anything about it, then just say, Stephen, leave me alone. I'm not going to talk about it. I'll say, I have a problem with that. Ask me anything you want. Perfect. When you talk about Arrow, you said you found some things out recently. I'm not asking you to give the big reveal here, because I know you want to talk about on your show, and I completely respect that. But can you give us a little preview about what we could expect to hear about what you

found out about Arrow that are going to make people in Congress mad because there are Congress members who do listen to the show thankfully so what would they hear that are going to make them like what is going on we got to we got to get these people in here to testify I think what's what is what I'll be revealing relates to a really pretty significant waste of taxpayer dollars and then the other thing that I hope will compel hearings is what I'll reveal speaks to exactly what their true mission is. And I hope, you know, I'm a big fan of many of these people in Congress that are not on my side of the aisle, people like Anna Polina Luna, Eric Berluson, that I may not politically agree with on most of their,

you know, where they stand on, on issues. But I 100% support what they are doing and will champion them publicly and privately on what they're doing regarding this issue, especially Anna Palina Luna and Eric Burleson. I mean, they, and Tim Burchett, they have really just done an outstanding job. And I've said many times, I'm a Democrat. I've, you know, I've said many times, you know, where's everyone in my party? You know, why is this predominantly a Republican issue? You guys need to do your damn job.

But Democratic Party's a mess. I won't go there. But anyway, you know, so you've got members of Congress like Anna Polina Luna, Eric Burleson, Tim Burchett, Senator Jellibrand. Thank God we have her. Jared Moskowitz. I'll give him credit as well. Moskowitz. Yeah, absolutely.

I'm horrible about remembering everyone. Oh, yeah. Jared Moskowitz. Exactly. So there are members of Congress that are really trying to get at this thing and uncover it and do the right thing. You know, these members of Congress, they're spending a huge amount of political capital going after this stuff. So my hat is off to whoever, regardless a party, is trying to do the right thing. Right. My hope is that when these people, and there are members of Congress that pay attention to shows like ours, when they hear this, they'll be like, okay, it's time to have a hearing, it's time to drag these people in, put them under oath, and then hopefully at the end of it, they'll come to the conclusion that they need to disband Arrow.

Now, a comment I wanted to say earlier in the program when you were talking about Arrow. Yeah. Arrow was a reaction to Senator Gillibrand coming up with A.O.M.S.G. When Deputy Secretary of Defense, Kathy Hicks, saw that Congress is going to spin up a UAP investigative panel or organization or whatever, she freaked the F out. And that's when they came up with Arrow. They're like, oh, no, no, we got it. Well, you know, okay. You guys are really serious. You want to look into it. We'll stand up our own program. Arrow was designed to basically take away that power from Congress

because if Congress spun up AO-MSG, then the Pentagon wouldn't be able to control it. The CIA wouldn't be able to control what comes out of it. So that is why Arrow, that's a true story of why Arrow was generated. And again, what I'll speak about will speak to this. So I hope members of Congress watch this episode. I'm hoping it'll be this weekend because there's a lot of kind of data to sift through with some other things that I'll speak about regarding Arrow.

But, you know, but look, there are good people in Arrow. It's not an all-inclusive thing. It's not like rotten to the core. but I think the leadership is not doing their job, not doing the job that they were given by Congress. They're doing the job of what the people up their chain of command told them is what they need to execute on. I do find it interesting too, and I'll just say this real quick, because it popped into my head.

Of all the departments and programs that have been cut over the past year within the Trump administration, I do find it curious that Arrow has been one of the ones to survive. It's pretty interesting. I don't know if we make anything out of that, but it's just an observation. I don't know. Oh, yeah. I mean, Arrow has a job to do, and it's called disinformation. It's called narrative shaping.

It's part of information operations. That's what they're supposed to be doing. Doesn't mean they're bad people. Right. It's just they're given a mission. These people are mission-oriented. They execute on the mission. They're doing their job.

And by the way, yeah, that's not me saying that Trump is anti-disclosure because I actually don't believe he is. That's just me kind of making the observation that there are people kind of speaking to what we're talking about before. There are people possibly around whom who are saying keep that one. Let's not get rid of that one. Yeah. You know, look, I've said it on. I'm not a Trump supporter, but you know what? The same as I have no issue championing Republican members of Congress.

who are doing the right thing on UAP and championing them in a public way, I would do the same thing for Trump. If he does the right thing, I'm 100% going to back him in that because it is the right thing to do. Right. You know, just because you're on the opposite side of the party doesn't mean that you don't support people on the other side of the aisle that are doing good things. Right.

And, you know. Yeah, and that's one of the things that has always at least caught my eye with it. with this topic and being in at two of the hearings to I've noticed both times maybe with the exception of like one speaker here or there but it's the only time when you're going to be in Washington DC at a congressional hearing and you can't tell which speaker is a Republican and which one is a Democrat because that's a great point you know and it really struck me at both of the hearings I was able to be at you really because they're both going after this topic and that's one thing that I do enjoy about this.

is that we can. If you're on different sides of the aisle, you can still talk about this because we all want the same thing in the end. You can talk about it, and you can also support the members of Congress that are not in your party that are doing the right thing. Like I said, I may not agree with everything Eric Berlinson stands for, but, you know, I tell you what,

this guy's got some big balls doing what he's doing on the UAP thing. And I have no issue going on my show or your show and saying, Congressman Burleson, right on, brother, you are doing the right thing. And you're doing a good job. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Death Wish Coffee, Brook Linnon, and Kylie. But what if people haven't heard about your brand? Well, Shopify helps you find your customers with easy-to-run email and social media campaigns.

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Hi, you're listening to Meditating with Jan from Toyota. Soften your focus and visualize yourself offroading in a Tacoma. Now engage your senses. What do you hear? A donkey. Because you're driving the kids to a farm sanctuary in a Grand Highlander. Breathe in, breathe out, and go from dreaming it to driving it today. Dealer inventory may vary. See your participating Toyota dealer for details. Event ends March 31st. Toyota, let's go places. When you fly with Hawaiian Airlines, the whole family enjoys free access to Starlink, the fastest Wi-Fi in the sky.

Thanks to T-Mobile. Stream, scroll, message, and game, while sipping a passion orange guava juice. Everyone stays entertained and your vacation gets a head start. Enjoy every moment of your trip, even before you land. Hawaii starts here. And Representative Anna Polina Luna, she is doing a good job. Just because I'm a Democrat doesn't mean I can't go and support Republicans across the aisle that are doing the right thing. Because again, like I said earlier, there's no political, you know, really advantage to these.

folks doing it. They're spending political capital. It's risky. So when I see, you know, Republicans across the aisle, and, you know, there are some Democrats, such as Moskowitz, and some others, Chuck Schumer and others that are doing the same thing. But, you know, we're all in this together. This isn't a Democrat or Republican issue. This is a all-of-humanity issue. And we need to come together, support each other, even though some people you may not agree with on most of the issues. We need to come together, support everybody that is doing good work on this regardless of party. Because this affects us all. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter, you know, you're red, blue or purple or whatever. This is a national security issue.

And, you know, I remember a congressman that I was speaking with while I was on Capitol Hill said to me, look, everybody is swampy, Republican and Democrat. It's just people are swampy to different levels. And this was a Republican telling me this, by the way, Republican congressman. And it's right. You know, both parties have done some really horrible things. But this is a great opportunity for both parties to come together, show America what bipartisanship can be and should be. And let's tackle this thing, not as Republicans, not as Democrats, but as Americans.

I love it. Look at campaign speech there from that Ford. I love it. Thank you. Do you still have about 10, 15 minutes? Is that okay? Yeah. Yeah.

I wanted to, we speak about everything happening around the stratosphere of the UFO topic. And one thing that kind of pops into my head, maybe just when I'm, you know, to myself thinking about this is what happens when. Right? Sometimes we use the hypothetical of what if. I want to use what happens when. what happens when this is disclosed we don't know when that's going to be it could be after you and i are dead and buried and our grandkids find out about this who knows or it could be next year we have no idea but what happens once it does come out because it is going to what is the next step

what happens to society what happens to the discussion what happens to the collective consciousness of the United States, of the world, and how society now moves forward with this new reality. I mean, I think that's, sorry, I had to put my phone on, do not disturb, it was getting calls. Probably, I don't know, Sean Kirkpatrick telling me to shut the F up. It's gone. But, you know, I think that question is most difficult to answer

out of all of the questions. because it is, you know, you can game theory this stuff out and send it to Rand Corporation, which has done studies on this stuff. You know, it's hard to predict what the downstream, second and third order consequences will be. And that is the reason that we need to be having this conversation. That is the reason we need to be talking to our families. Okay, if this comes out, what does this mean to us?

We need to be talking about this stuff because the only way, and I'm speaking to this administration, the only way that you can game this out in a way that is going to be as favorable as possible is to be proactive, not reactive. Right, okay. If this administration or if they don't do it, another administration chooses not to do anything like all the other administrations before. And let's say that China or Russia goes first or NHI decides to do some kind of mass daytime reveal where there's zero doubt amongst the population this stuff is here. the potential for catastrophe across the world is immeasurable. The potential for economic devastation is immeasurable. The potential for political upheaval in governments around the world is immeasurable

if this is popped on everybody. at one time and it's a surprise. The only way to help mitigate those potential problems is for a presidential administration to be proactive and to roll this out in a controlled manner. And I'm not talking controlled like a 20 year rollout. They need to like do it within like, you know, within an administration's lifespan.

Yeah. That is the only way, the only way to mitigate these potential issues. Because at the end of the day, they have to realize the Trump administration or whoever, this is going to come out. Right. You know, this snowball is getting bigger and bigger and bigger every day. This movie is case in point. These hearings is case in point. This thing is not going to go away.

So do you want to, you know, if you're the Trump administration, do you really want to be the administration that kicks it to the next one? Let's say it's a Democratic administration and that Democrat goes up, that Democratic president goes and reveals that stuff and says, oh, yeah, Trump had the opportunity to do this and instead he sat on it. The timing is now. This needs to happen now to do it in a controlled rollout. I'm not saying dump everything in the cookie jar, but anything that does not directly jeopardize national security, come clean with the public, say, look, we've, as a government, we've done some really bad things to foreigners, and we've also done some really bad things to Americans. We shouldn't have done it. You know, we're all human. We all make mistakes. At the end of the day, we were doing it to protect the national security of the United States. In hindsight, it wasn't the right thing to do, but these are the naughty things we did. Let's all move on as a country and figure out how we're going to deal with this. They cannot sit on this longer. It will blow up in their face. If it doesn't blow up in Trump's face, it's going to blow up in whatever president comes later. has to do the right thing. He has the legal authority to unilaterally declassify the stuff that sits in the National Security Council.

End of story. He can do that. He has a legal authority to do it. Can't do it with the DOE stuff. And the stuff that sits in the DOE, quite honestly, is probably the stuff Americans don't need, or the world does not need to be told about. Because, of course, you tell your friends, you tell your enemies. But this is the best way to mitigate all of the... these potential destabilizing things that could happen across the world.

If they are just proactive, next year past the UAP Disclosure Act, if it comes up, or, you know, really before it, just Trump administration, they just need to do the right thing. They know all this shit. They need to just do it. Yeah, I think it's well put. What happens? Actually, let me ask it this way, Matt. This is something I think about a lot, too.

And by the way, it's been fantastic. Really appreciate you coming on. Really enjoyed this conversation. You're welcome. Pleasure being here. Yes. One of the things I think about it, and I think I've asked this question before to, I think it was Danny Sheehan that I asked this question. But it's still something that floats around in my mind. Why hasn't China and Russia come out and just stepped on the U.S.'s toes and said,

screw you guys. We gave you a chance to be the leaders on this. You haven't done it. we're going to do it because it's talked about in the age of disclosure that China and Russia have their own programs. I think it's pretty well known to anybody who again who looks into this stuff or listens to our respective shows that China and Russia have their own programs as well, that they've been investigating this for decades and they as well keep it a secret. Why allies and adversaries, we don't agree on

many things, but this is the one thing that we agree on that no one's releasing it. But why do you think they haven't gone out in front of the United States to say, we're going to be the ones to do it? You know, that's a really good question. I was told early on when all of this, you know, in the 50s cranked up, there was basically a gentleman's agreement amongst all of the countries that were experiencing this stuff, that it's not in any country's interest to put this stuff out. So they all, you know, China, Russia, everybody agreed, okay, let's keep the lid on this. It's not going to, it's not going to help Russia. If I'm a Russian president, it's not going to help my country. It's going to destabilize a bunch of stuff.

I may get kicked out of office, this, that, and the other. So, you know, as far as where it like stands now, my guess is probably some of it is China and Russia, these are dictatorships. they're not really going to be doing things from a place of altruism versus Americans, an American president, you would hope there are some altruistic motives to put this stuff out. It could certainly be that, you know, maybe they're behind in their reverse engineering, although I'm hearing that's not the case. But if they're behind and they go and reveal, when they reveal it then forces the United States to And then what happens if the United States goes, oh, yeah, sorry, we've been hiding this.

We have this Klingon battleship that the former deputy director of Arrow, Tim Phillips, was bragging about on a podcast and making an unauthorized disclosure. Oh, we have this thing. And then all of a sudden, the Russian population goes to Putin. And they're like, well, do we have one of those? And Putin's like, no, we didn't get quite as far. and next thing, you know, he's thrown out or replaced or whatever happens in that world. You know, and I'm just, you know, I don't know.

I'm just coming up with some theories. But, you know, and again, it's like all of this stuff, it's a super complex issue. I remember Senator Mike Rounds at a thing on Capitol Hill, basically in so many words said that this is a difficult. thing to unwind and do so in a way that doesn't damage the country. And I'm sure that's the same for the Chinese and the Russians as well. But there is a risk that Z or Putin will, let's say that they do have a parity in terms of reverse engineered vehicles of non-human origin, and they've managed to reproduce them. And let's say that they're on parity. with the U.S., that all of these countries have this, and it's deployable, then at that point,

you know, the calculus may change in that they may look at it and go, okay, well, we've got nothing to lose. We've figured out how this stuff works. We're going to reveal it. And just for the, if anything, for the purpose of causing irreparable damage to the reputation of the United States of America, you know, that could be it as a lot of. well. Yeah, it's it's a layered issue. So I mean, it's it's fascinating though to think about, discuss, kind of hypothesize on it. Now, I'll get you out of here on this, Matt. There's so many,

like I said, layers, right, to this discussion, to this topic, to the phenomenon, whether it's a lot of what we spoke about here today on the terrestrial side of things, you know, how do we deal with it as a country, as a world, how is it being presented? Is it going to come out? Or on the supernatural, if you will, side of things with the phenomenon, whether, abductions, spiritual aspects, so many different things to this, different realms, different realities, warp drives, all these different things that can go along with the phenomenon itself. What's the one thing that if and when this comes out, you would want to know that Matt Ford would want to know definitively, okay, this is out there now.

I want to know about this one thing. What's the deal with it? Sure. That's an easy answer. What I would want to know is Mick West a reptilian. It's been suspected. I always kind of figured he was. No, I, I'm joking, of course.

Yeah, because he is a reptilian. Of course, yes, we know this. Yeah, I already know the answer. Yeah, no, that's a really good question. No one has ever, no one has ever. No one has ever asked me that. I would say probably my question would be, what has happened in our religious history,

other religions, was that indeed NHI? Were, you know, was the burning bush, I don't know, a bush from Skinwalker Ranch that NIH was making a burn up or, you know, was the Virgin Mary a female NHI or whatever, you know, I think that would be what I would want to know. And then, of course, I would want to know, actually probably above that is do they know what beyond a shadow of a doubt or have scientific evidence that our consciousness survives physical death. I'd say that's probably that would probably be that and the McWest

thing. Of course. It goes Mick West goes without saying, but I would go deep as well like that. There's so many existential questions to this. Yeah. It's just one begets the other. So, Matt, thanks so much for doing this. I hope if we can make some more

time in the future. There's so much more that I'd want to get with you on here. So if we can do it again in the future, that would be great. Absolutely Stephen. It's been an honor being on your show. You asked some really great questions. I was able to finally reveal that I think that McWest is a reptilian. So it's been a great experience. That's awesome. I appreciate it, Matt, really, really do. And look forward to talking to you again soon. Thanks a lot. You're welcome.

Well, thank you again to Matt Ford. And again, he has a great show. If you've never checked it out before, he has a lot of great guests on there, really hard-hitting stuff, the Good Trouble Show on YouTube. He does really well, a very popular show. And I'm glad to be able to bring him on here to UAP. kind of have the meaty of the minds for the first time here on UAP and hopefully be able to have him on again in the future because there was just so much, there was still so much that I actually wanted to talk to him about, but we kind of ran out of time that day when we were recording. So hopefully another time I'll be able to have on Matt Ford here from the Good Trouble Show. Make sure you look him up as well, the Good Trouble Show on YouTube and anywhere else you get your

podcast. But thanks again to him for making all that time. I really, really enjoy the conversation, really insightful stuff. And like I said in part one, too, a lot to chew on. You know, a lot of big topics that we went over and a lot of stuff to kind of think about and ponder with this conversation. Speaking of which, there's a lot out there that continues to go on when it comes to different topics and conversations that are happening as we speak. I know that Eric Burleson and Tim Burchett were just on with Jeremy Corbella and George Knapp. That seemed to be a big interview when they were talking about possible hearings, which was a shock to me to hear that actually.

to hear how that changed because when I had on Eric Burleson here not too long ago, I think it was about a month ago, maybe six weeks ago. He said he really doesn't want to have any more hearings. Like the time is now for action. But now it sounds like they're going more towards that road of maybe more hearings again within the next month. So something obviously changed in the background there within the past four to six weeks since I last spoke to him. And I'll keep an eye on that. I mean, if that's going to happen. one thing he did mention with Corbella Knapp is something he mentioned on here, which is, you know, the possibility of putting out subpoenas to people in the legacy programs, right?

We spoke about, you know, the immunity and different things like that, and they want to bring those people up to speak. So, I mean, they're hitting this hard. And I think maybe that's why they want to do another hearing, which was the latest kind of word on that, is because if they can get some of these people from the legacy programs to come out and speak, if that means immunity, I don't know if they can do that that quickly, but if they can make that happen, obviously, that would be a very big moment. So definitely keep an eye on what's happening in D.C. And we'll see if, you know, more hearings and whoever those witnesses might be, if some of that stuff comes up.

That's obviously very, very newsworthy and noteworthy. So we'll continue to keep an eye on that. And continue to keep an eye on UAP because I got some great stuff coming up here. I'm going to be speaking with James Fox coming up here on UAP. He's going to be happy to bring him back here on the show because I haven't spoken to him in about a year. And he's got a new part coming out to his investigation into the Varginio Brazil case. He has a new take on this, new look at it with new witnesses and new interviews. And that documentary to kind of pick up where he left off on that case some years ago is coming out soon.

So I'm going to have James Fox on here on UAP within the coming days. So I'll keep you updated on when that's coming up and a lot of other great things as well before the holidays. And even during the holidays, I'll stay present. I'll stay out there with some of the greatest hits episodes as well. So we're not taking, you know, I'm not going to stop putting out episodes. I guess I'll put it out that way. I'm going to be sure that UAP stays out there during the holidays. And I'm still working here to get some of these interviews out there for you before I take a little Christmas vacation myself.

But that said, still got to have a lot of stuff coming out. So be sure to continue to download and subscribe to the show. You know, plenty to come. So make sure you continue to search UAP wherever you get your podcasts on all the big platforms and follow along on social media at UA Podcast 850. And to search UAP podcast on YouTube and that should come up as well. I'll have this interview up there with Matt Ford, too, and a lot of other stuff that I still haven't put up.

But I plan on doing it at some point. I swear I will sometime. And you could always reach out to me on any of those social media channels through direct messaging or send me an email S-D-N-R-U-A-P at g-mail.com if you'd like to do that as well. S-D-I-E-N-R-U-A-P at g-mail.com. But that was, again, a lot of great stuff with Matt Ford and happy to cover all those topics with him. And I can't wait to come back with even more stuff on UAP. And we're looking forward to 2026 as well.

I'm planning some stuff there. And it's always, always working. It tried to continue to move this forward, to move this conversation, to move this topic forward. here on the Unidentified Alien Podcast. So stay tuned and follow along. And I'll be back soon right here on UAP. But until then, until next time, I'll just say be well and say thank you again so much for everything,

for always tuning in, for coming back, for staying with us here on UAP. So until next time, it is Stephen Deiner here saying be well. And thank you as always. Thanks so much. We'll talk again soon right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast.