UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 177 Is NASA Covering Up this UFO Photo?

Episode Date: December 19, 2025

The Simpkinson NASA Archive UFO photo may be the most clear picture of a flying saucer ever taken that many people have never even heard of before. Author and historian, Ed Wilson joins Stephen Diener to unveil the truly shocking findings that he has presented in his books about this picture and others taken by astronauts, as being the real deal. Listen for yourself as Ed presents what could be ground breaking evidence for these recently discovered images...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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It's about continuing the story. Explore your options at kingsley manor.org, a nonprofit month-to-month senior community within the Front Porch family. Welcome back in to UAP. Stephen Dean are back with you here as always on the Unidentified Alien podcast, episode number 177. And today we are going to talk about something that I had never even heard of before, quite frankly, up until a few days ago. And shame on me for that, because this could really end up being, I'm not using hyperbole here. I'm not just trying to like hype this up. This really could,

could end up being one of the most significant investigations or topics that I've covered here on UAP in the past four and a half years. And I say that even looking back at the attention that this episode has gotten before I even put it out here today. Because here's what we're looking at. We're going to bring on a man named Ed Wilson. Ed is an author and a historian. And he wrote a book, or two books actually, one of them being called the Simpkinson NASA Archive with 150 photos from the NASA Archive in this book, along with tons of research and forensic analysis. And the reason why he did this, and you're going to hear the whole story here today, is because he came across some incredible photos from a man named Scott Simpkinson. Scott Simpkinson is a name that you probably have never heard of before. I know I didn't.

Maybe you have, and by all means, if you have, fantastic. But if you haven't, you're going to learn about him and why he could be one of the most consequential names in space history that you've never even heard of before. This dude was the real deal, so much so that he had a lot of different pictures in his possession that only those closest to him knew about and didn't even surface until Ed found them an auction. And that's where all this comes from today. And that's why we haven't even heard of or seen these photos, especially the one that's got all the attention yesterday on social. media that I put out. That's why we haven't seen them up until the past couple of years and they're really starting to gain more attention and more steam. So I was happy to have on Ed here today. And the reason why this episode got so much attention before I even put it out today

is because I put out the photo on Twitter of this picture of a UFO supposedly taken by astronauts aboard the Gemini 11 space mission back in September of 1966. And this picture, proportionate, reportedly shows a very clear image of a flying saucer type of craft. Even with, you know, portholes or windows, whatever you want to call it, I don't know. It's extremely clear. And at first glance, admittedly, at first glance, you look at it and say, okay, well, that's fake. I mean, that's fake. Like, there's no way that's real.

It looks too good. There's no way that's fake. But just listen to the evidence and the details that Ed brings here today about the investigations and who he worked with on that. this, some pretty prestigious names I think you're going to be surprised about, and how this was all done, how the forensic analysis was all done on these pictures that he came across and have printed in his books. So you're going to hear about all this. And like I said, because I put that picture out there, this episode here today got a lot of attention before even coming out.

So I appreciate that. And I hope that you enjoy and find informative what you're about to hear with myself and Ed Wilson. As we discuss the Scott Simpkinson, now. archive UFO amongst many other things on that topic and how this all came about and what might happen next. So here's the interview. Stick around for after it's done because I'll have a bunch of afterthoughts for that as well. And I'll let you know what to look forward to really great stuff coming up, really, really great stuff coming up next week on UAP that I'm really excited for you to hear as well. But let's start with this one here today. Get ready to learn about this. The Scott Simkinson NASA Archive UFO photo right now on UAPE.

Well, welcome in here to a very unique interview. It's something that I just started to dig into myself, and I can't believe I hadn't gotten into this earlier. In the past almost five years of doing UAP, it seems like this is maybe meant to happen at some point. I'm glad to do it now is to bring on Ed Wilson, the author of two books. One is the Simkinson NASA Archive UFO, over 150 earliest NASA photos, and hidden under our nose how the Simpsomensons. UFNNNUFO led to confirmation of Strangecraft published in NASA photos. Ed, this is some of the best detailed investigations. No kidding.

I've ever seen from just photos that have been laying out there from NASA, and one in particular that we're going to talk about, along with a lot of others, that show what looks to be like clear images of UFOs that NASA just had laying there. So I'm super excited to talk to you, Ed. Kudos for putting this all together in both of your books. happy to have you join us here today on UAP. Great, great.

I'll tell you a little bit about who I am. Yes, please. Exactly what we have. We're not going to be able to cover everything. So this is kind of a list that I'm going to read to you so that people out there know exactly how many documents may have. Yeah, let's lay it out there. First of all, Stephen, thanks for having me.

My name is Ed Wilson, and I have a different background from us UFO researchers today. originally I was a historian and rare book and document dealer, but that was only until I rediscovered what is the most important piece at NASA Photography ever, the Simkinson NASA UFO. The only reason it survived is because NASA's original space task group chief engineer Scott Simkinson preserved it in his personal archive, where it sat and touched in the family basement since 1996. When I first saw it, one thing became obvious immediately.

It's an indisputable flying saucer. It's a shocking image. It's so shocking that I began cross-checking it against NASA's own material. What I found was this. The lithograph wasn't an isolated incident. The same object shows up again in NASA's official Gemini 11 Hasselblab photographs and a Maurer camera photograph. And again, in the never-seen 16,000 frame RCA D-15 mission film that I recovered from the National Archives.

When you line them all up, the secret lithograph, the public NASA photos, the hidden RCA camera footage, the object matches across all of them. Now, there are different angles and different lighting and different cameras, but the same craft. We're not dealing with a single frame. We're dealing with a documented sequence of events NASA never in. intended the public to see. This isn't folklore. This isn't a story someone told somebody. This is forensic archival scientific evidence. We have NASA's astronaut voice transcripts reporting weird craft in real time. We have NASA's technical debriefings where the astronauts deny seeing any

anomalies, except one, the exact anomaly that occurred during the D-15 battery failure. We have a six-minute communications gap, a classic signature marker in NASA anomalous events. We have a perfect and disputable cloud pattern match between the lithograph and NASA's own frame S66-54585, a scientifically verifiable match that proves the lithograph originated from a real Gemini 11 photograph. Your own eyes will not lie to you. We have timestamp artifacts on the RCA film that indicate this in digital frames frames that should exist but don't and this is incredible and you can read it for yourself word for word in nassas own johnson space center oral history the testimony from nassas legendary photographic director of richard underwood and in his official oral history interview he states

clearly that no one outside a small security clear group has ever seen a first generation NASA photograph Every image the public has ever seen, every image researchers have ever seen, every image you've ever seen, and Congress, too, is from a third generation negative. Make sure you understand what this means. It means this. We have never, ever seen the original NASA negatives. So when you take all of this together, the lost lithograph, the matching Hesobab photo, the 16,000 frames of hidden RCA footage, the astronaut transcripts, the cloud pattern verification, the missing. time stamps, the National Archives Recovery, and the CIA MPIC duplication systems we now know we're in operation, you have something NASA can no longer explain away. The craft in these frames are not lights. They are not lens flares. They are not reflections. They are structured objects photographed by NASA across multiple camera systems in 1966. It's all 100% NASA imagery.

and you don't take my word for it. Just follow the NASA Trail and believe your own eyes. The American public deserves this transparency. And Stephen, that's why I'm here today. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. That's great, Ed. I mean, perfect way to set the table.

Gosh, there's so much there that we need to cover and need to ask you. It's a rock and rolling interview I think you're going to have. There's just so much. I think so. And one of the reasons why I was so excited to talk to you about this is because of something you actually mentioned there in your opening statement, which is, this is forensic evidence. And those two words don't come up a lot. I'm not knocking anybody.

I'm not knocking any whistleblowers or stories or anything like that, secondhand testimonies. I'm not knocking any of that because I've spoken about it here. I've had all those interviews here. And it's all important in my book. But when you get forensic evidence and put that term in the UFO conversation, That is, in many ways, a game changer because you really can't dispute it. This is something that has been studied, as you mentioned. It's been cross-referenced between other photos.

You had the negatives, right? I mean, you came across the original photo. From the National Archives. From the archives. So I want to start there because that's the part that really, really piques my interest. Was it your background as a historian? that led you to these photos? How did you come across this stuff

that Simpkinson himself had in his own personal collection? It wasn't put out to the public because these are just things that he kept that are unclassified, which kind of goes to your book title, your second book, under our noses. It really was just kind of under our nose.

So how did you come across this stuff and what was your reaction when you first found it and thought, oh my gosh, this is real? What was my reaction? It was written down. while I was cataloging all of the documents that I had got at auction. When I came across it, I still have the sheet I was writing on as I was writing down numbers of photographs and what they were.

And my reaction was simply this, wow, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point, three underlines. I would say, what on earth is this? And before we go on and just want to make sure I make this statement, Guys, if you're out there driving, I want you to really understand this is all. I've got photographs that you can see for free. There will be a website that will give you at the end here. You can go and there's a drop box and you can see these images. So just concentrate on driving, okay, kids?

It's a dangerous world out there on the highways nowadays. And I want to make sure you know you'll be able to see all this information. Just before I answer any more of that, and I'm going to hold the cover of the book up here. So you guys can see. The cover of this first book actually shows the lithograph. You see the curvature of the earth beneath outer space. And there on the extreme right-hand side, just on the horizon, is an actual, there we go, close in. Yes.

A flying saucer. Guys, it's a flying saucer. Sure is. It's in 1966. It has an aura surrounding it. Interesting porthole structure, which was what they thought was anomalous at first. Everybody's saying, well, that's just a really poorly done fake. No, it's not. What it catches is the actual function of what we consider to be port holes, which is some kind of plasma energy conductance system to my best estimate. Here's the one thing that you need to know. These are all NASA images. So if you're driving, you'll be able to see this for yourself. Don't have to buy the book. Just go to Amazon and they show the front and the back cover and you can magnify it and you can get an idea of what this investigation is. is about. So Simkinson, UFO will bring it up on any Google search because people all over the world are starting to take notice of what's in these documents. So I started out originally as a rare book

and document dealer. Naturally, I have a favoritism towards history. And the only way a historian can make a living is teach history. Sure. But I found out that guess what? There's a thing called auctions. And when you go to an auction, what you have is a plethora of items out there that usually come from somebody who's died, okay? And like most of us, you know, we have family and they love us and all that stuff, but we all have personal lives. And most people have very specific items of interest that they continue to study their whole lives and their family had no idea about it. Many of them, as it turns out, are important historical documents. And with my favoritism towards books and documents and signatures and history, I found out that I can go to an auction and out there in plain sight will be a very valuable historic document and no one will know it.

And the other thing is this, the things get thrown away. So I have spent a career finding these items and actually saving them from the dumpster and they're in museums all across the country and the world. So I went to one of my auctions. I usually preview them on AuctionsZEP.com where you get to see what they are. And it was advertised as the NASA collection of Emily Erdle, okay, and Erdle's Eartle's E. Y-L.

So Emily Erdle, NASA Collection, and I looked at the pictures. I said, these are NASA photographs. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Death Wish Coffee, Brooke Lennon and Kylie.

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senior community within the Front Porch family. These things have some value to them. So I went to the auction and I started going through all the, the whole auction house was filled with her collection and thought, my God, this is extensive. Look how many items are here? Who is this Emily Erdle? And you can see, and you can do your own research, bring up Emily Erdle. And she was a secretary at NASA. Okay. And as it turns out, the family had contacted NASA because they knew about the collection.

They'd had it in their basement for 30 years. and they said, well, this is probably valuable information. They didn't know anything about it. So they offered it to NASA and NASA turned them down. Wow. The reason is this. Emily Erdle was the lifetime companion, unmarried companion, back in the 50s and 60s. And as the of Scott Simpkinson.

Okay. Scott Simpkinson. So when they offered it to NASA, NASA said, thank you, but no, we're not interested. so they put it up for auction. Later after the auction, NASA realized who Emily was. She had top secret clarification. You will see in the book. When you get into the book, Emily Erdle is, I have the newsletter copied there,

this show, Shining Beautiful Woman. Emily Erdle is the first female NASA employee at Cape Canaver. Really? It's written right in the newspaper, yep. And here is, now I'm holding a picture up, guys. I'll explain you what it is. It's the back of the cover of the first book I read. This book is 650 pages, guys.

Oh, it's thick. It's all NASA documents and evidence from many, many different sources, stories, things that are just corroborating everything that we tell you. But this back page has a picture of the 1959 Space Task Group. Now, for those of you who aren't familiar with history, the Space Task Group was our answer after the Sputnik rocket was put into space, and the American people were absolutely taken. terrified, or at least the Congress and the military was, because we'd fallen behind.

What this picture is depicting right now that I'm holding up to the camera is a group of about 30 engineers from the 1950s, and right in the center is a beautiful young woman, and she's got her body resting nestled in the arms of a chubby-looking guy, kind of like me. And that's Scott Simkinson, and that he is a key figure in the history of NASA that people don't know about this very much. Although I've found references to him in three books. He's a key figure. He's the guy who and what they're standing in front of, all that group of the space task group is the very first Mercury capsule mission. It was called the Big John mission. How you like that? Yeah. And it was, he's the guy who actually built that whole program together.

He was the lead engineer. He was the guy in those early days. He had his finger on the the launch button. Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad you mentioned that, actually, Ed, because I was about to say, Scott Simkinson himself, this isn't like some guy that was just kind of in the background. He was the real deal. He was like, you know, man in front of a lot of the stuff. He was one of the head engineers, right? He was the lead engineer for that space task group. Right, there you go. And that is what, and NASA was formed from the space task group. Wow. Now, he was a phenomenal engineer. and he formed NASA. He was the guy who built the Mercury caps.

The Mercury's first launches were from the blockhouse that he supervised building. He built it. He put the equipment in there. He worked with all the engineers. Now, the rest of the space task group came from Langley, Virginia, and from JP, what was the predecessor to JPL out in California. So there were three groups of mathematicians. You remember the movie where they showed the,

the young woman who was a Hidden figures, right? Yeah, hidden figures. Okay, so that was one component of it over there in Virginia. And then there, of course, was the military industrial complex in California that was brought over to. But these group of engineers you see right here, those are the engineers. And you can see them. You can't see the pictures,

but it looks like they're standing in an old garage airport. Right. You see the mercury capsule behind them. They're all smiling and happy. But he was the guy that, was in charge. That's the photo of when they came back from their first trip down to Florida after having built that spacecraft. So he was like a NASA pioneer. Like he was there at the start of it and this guy and he's the one who had these pictures and it gave them to Emily, right? Yes. And as I said, NASA once they realized because they'd been dead so long, they,

you know, they thought Emily Erdle when they offered their, in the archive was, you know, just another secretary there. And once they found out, my God, that's Scott Simkinson's, I'm using quote marks here with my fingers, wife, okay, that Scott Simpkins's wife. But they weren't officially married, right? And is that why they were confused because they were never officially legally married? They were just companions. Exactly. Now, here's a little bit of confusion. When you go to look up the Simpkinson archive UFO and you might come across. And this is what confused people who've already looked at it. They said, well, he says he has a Simpkinson archive, but I find a record of it at the University of Southern Florida.

And it says there, it says in the records that it was donated to them by Emily Erdle, which is absolutely right. When he died, Emily was not married to anyone else. They didn't have kids. She lived alone. I got it from her niece and nephew were the ones that put it up for auction because basically when she finally did die, I think it was about 2004. The nephew, who I got the archive from, he drove down.

to Houston and collected all the archive and all her worldly possessions and drove them back up here to Ohio. So that's how he got the personal archive. Okay. Okay. The one in Florida, when Scott died 10 years previous to her, that was his, those were the items from his Cape Canaveral office. That was the original office, right? There was no, when this program started, there was no NASA, there was no Johnson Space Center. Right. He went down with Emily. And, And they had snakes running through what they called apartments back then as they built Cape Canaveral. Yeah, that's true. A lot of snakes in that area.

It's a Canaveral office. So, guys, this is an opportunity for someone who's ambitious. Go over there, pull that archive out. I've read through the list of what's in there, but you know you can't be specific. There are probably some corroborating evidence in there because it is his stuff. And you don't know what you might find in there that will be very, very interesting. to anyone in this UFO field that's interested in doing it. So I was going to fly down there and do that.

I don't have time to do anything. I'm writing a third book right now, and I'm trying to do some podcast and get some information out. And I would love to go through the archive. Obviously, I love reading that stuff. But someone down there, if you're listening, hey, this is an opportunity. And it's just, it's free if you can get to the library. So I'm glad we've touched on that point because that is serious research. And that's what these books are.

are aimed at, okay? The books that I have written are all NASA documents. They're all CIA documents. They are not me telling you what's going on. I'm telling you what I've discovered, okay? But every time I tell you something, I give you and cite you the place you can read and see it yourself. That's right. And that that's one of the things I love, actually, one of the things that really intrigued me, Ed, when I was first looking into your story was that exactly that. Your books are made up of this information. This is an informative text. This isn't, you know, Ed Wilson's opinion about NASA and their

archives. This is their archive. This is. And so, but let me ask you this. And it just so happens. In the archive, are these pictures clear as day of these UFOs? I mean, these are flying saucers with portholes with some type of light around them

over the earth, taken by astronauts on Gemini 11. And I know there's more than just that one photo. are in the archives. So I think one of the questions people are going to have added, something that I have, so I want to try to get it out there now is, how did NASA mess this up? What I mean by that is, how did they not keep this? NASA is extremely secretive. You and I both know this. They're very secretive. They're very protective of their information. What gets out and what doesn't. So, I mean, you mentioned, I mean, a lot of the things that we see, the

pictures, they've been, you know, whitewashed two or three times before they come out into the public. So how did they miss this? Did they just overlook Emily? Did they forget that Scott had all this stuff in his possession? Did he never tell them because he was so high up? He essentially was NASA when it started. So it just slipped through the cracks. How did they miss this stuff?

Excellent. Excellent question. That's what everyone's been asking. I'm glad it's a complicated answer, but it's a direct answer. And this information isn't in the first two books. But I'm telling you today what I've found by going to to the CIA reading rooms, they declassified so much information over the years. I go back and then start with the 1956 to 1958 H.T. Autotech dossier of NASA documents, not NASA documents,

CIA documents that have been released. What they did, there's a mechanism that is under the heading of SpyCraft. So in 1956, with the advent of SpyCraft, so in 1956, with the advent of SpyCraft, by photography and aerial photography for spy purposes. They invented a, the NPC, the National Photographic Interpretive Center. These are their trained photo analyst. So these CIA operatives working back then were in charge of multiple things that they had to do. So you can't fault them. It was a different time.

And that's where history comes into and plays. here because the guys who were in charge of the photographic interpretation wanted to create the National Photographic Interpretive Center. And they were the CIA. So the NPI is an offshoot of the CIA in 1956. They wanted a place to build and the NPI was the very first skiff. I've got the documents showing where NASA personnel were brought up to the first skiff to get lectures on photo interpretation. Okay. The guys, the photo analyst from NPC went down to the Redstone Arsenal to give lectures on photo analysis. Everybody has seen these hearings where NASA gets up and says right in front of everybody,

we don't have, and we've searched our archives, we don't have any photographic evidence of all. There is no evidence of UFOs, okay? And everybody becomes angry, right? says, well, how can you say that? Because we see with their own eyes what's going on around us. You certainly, with all that cameras and availability would have something. And they say, no, we don't. They're not lying, guys. Here's how it was done. It's Spycraft. What the documents show from the CIA that I'm presenting now, I've got a list of the 10 most important ones right now from the early 1960s. In 1965, the Gemini 5 mission was flying over the, over the, over, doing its orbits.

While it was doing so, the Hasselblag camera was, and basically it was just a commercial camera, it was actually picked by one of the astronauts. They wanted to take pictures from space, and one of the astronauts was Indy 500 car buff. And he spent money to get the best camera he could, which was the Hasselblad 50 millimeter camera,

and he took pictures of Indy 500 cars, and he went to NASA and said, hey, we should take this camera up into space. But that was not a, it was an advanced hand camera, but we were already doing things like the Corona missions, where we had very, very expensive, specialized camera orbiting over the Russians to determine all the military secrets we could get from there. And we couldn't even get them down.

They had to reenter them and pick them up with a parachute. These times were primitive. So basically what the spy craft did was this. 1965, they were passing over Cape Canaveral, where everybody was down there in Cape Canaveral. And then they said, hey, guys, we can see Cape Canaveral. We're going to take some pictures to send you. And they did. We knew we already had the Photographic Interpretive Center taking the spy pictures and doing their work with them. But what they didn't know and what they learned, and we have the memo from 1965, the CIA took the Cape Canaveral pictures from January.

and I-5. They made a montage of them, and they put the montage together, and they gave it to a photo analyst. And my God, they did not know that Hasselblag camera was so excellent that they could derive all kinds of unwanted military information from those pictures. We have the memo where they're saying, hey, we have a problem here. Hey, guys, so before we get back into the conversation, I just want to talk about something that affects all of us. And it's scary. Starting something new, right? It's hard and it is kind of terrifying because you think about all the work that goes into it. Are you going to be able to succeed? What new challenges am I going to face? It's that uncertainty. But I know how that is, because I can think back when I started UAP, I was just hoping for the best.

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are treated like people. At Keck Medicine of USC, our specialists listen to the person who knows you best, you. And in turn, you get our boundless expertise and dedication. Because we understand that You deserve the personalized care and genuine partnership that gives you the best outcome. To us, you are more than a number. Keck Medicine of USC. Together, we are limitless. And the problem was, you could take those photos and you can map a beautiful target for an ICBM intercontinental missile. Right.

The accuracy that you can get from these things was amazing. We knew that we were doing the spy and we were spending all this money on spy satellites, But those were very, very expensive cameras. This was a handheld camera. And this handheld camera, my God, from space, the clarification was so great. You could get the same information. And oh, my God, we cannot be releasing this to the public. So there's a series in the flurry of memos that come out and say that we are going to change the way everything works from here on now.

And we'll get into Scott Underwood, who was a CIA operative working in a photo interpreter for NASA. Well, he's the guy who put NASA together, but he was with. the CIA originally. But from then on, from that 1965 memo on, where they were worried about it and says, we've got to do something, they changed the whole arrangement of the NASA Photograph Department. What happens? And this is where you heard me tell you about Richard Underwood says nobody has ever seen anything more than a third generation. So what would happen? The chain of command changed. We've got the CIA documents telling about it. what they did was the NASA photographs, all of them, every single one,

and was hand-developed by Richard Underwood. He didn't trust the machines, and it was too valuable. So he hand-developed every one of them. Now, the film that they used, even though that was a hassle-plag camera, Soviet Union used just commercial film. But NASA and Richard Underwood, with his fantastic expertise, they developed their own film for those cameras. And the distinguishing characteristic of that film, which was on nylon, is that it was the thickness of saran wrap.

So you're thinking about these negatives up in space. Guess what? That is the distinguishing mark of the original film. And he details in his Johnson Space Center oral history exactly what he did. He would take that very sensitive saran wrap thin film, develop it by hand, And then he would make the first master copy of that. Okay. Every time you do a master, you lose some fidelity, right?

Every time you reproduce something, it loses fidelity. And he says in his own words, I made several masters. I distinguished between them by scratching onto the new negatives, which were regular film, right? Right. I scratched into the negative the details of what we had. okay, what was in that master copy. And then we put the originals into cold storage and no one will ever see them again.

If Congress wants to know if they're seeing the original film, okay, is it the thickness of saran wrap? If not, you've got a second generation image. Okay, you've got a second generation negative. He took the second generation negative and in the memo after 1965, says, from here on out, we will get directly from NASA, the film. NASA no longer had control over their own film.

Wow. So the film was developed by Underwood. The first set, the second edition of the film negatives that he made from that went directly to the National Photographic Interpretive Center. We have the documentation, CIA files. I've got the list of them. I'll be putting them out. But just so you know, that's already there. searching the files is very, very difficult,

but I've managed to accomplish this and have a series of 10 that explain this chain of command. Went to the National Photographic Interpretative Center directly from Richard Underwood, and there they came up and they said, from here on out, we will send NASA and what they can use because they had to degrade those photos so that the Russians cannot look at the photo.

When you back engineer something, you can back engineer a photo too. You can look at the clarity of the photo and you can tell, well, gee, this must have been made with this kind of camera, with this kind of focal link from this kind of altitude. And the information that I can glean from this is if you take it from this angle,

you'll be able to, you know, there's so much military information you can get from that. They degraded the photographs before they sent them back to NASA. So what NASA got was not the original negative. They got it, but it went to Underwood, who sent it to MPIC. MPIC, we have the memo saying,

we will send them what they need. So were there UFOs in those photos from Underwood? Or were there? Well, let's think about it. We're talking about, yeah, isn't that the question everyone asked? Everyone goes to these congressional hearings and they stand NASA up and that's spycraft. NASA is taken, NASA is not lying to you, okay? It is a crime.

It's a crime to lie to Congress, right? But you see them standing blithely there and saying, we've searched our files. We have absolutely no evidence of a UFO, okay? They're not lying because they got the third generation. That's why they're right there more than I would, I would be fairly confident to surmise that they didn't get every photo sent back to them. I have the documents showing where NASA.

request a photo from the MPIC. They say, we need this photo, okay? So they're requesting a photo from the MPIC. We have the documents where MPIC is, they say just flat out from now on, National Photographic Interpretation Center is the home for all these photos. That's amazing. So, so they're actually hiding some of those. That's Blockbuster. That's Blockbuster, guys. Yeah. I mean, Yeah, I mean, we're being told that through documents, again, this isn't your interpretation. These are in documents you follow the trail. It's that these photos have been whitewashed to NASA. They're getting, they're not getting the originals, which I guess is how, to go back to what we were talking about,

this is how these photos of these UFOs taken from space fell through the cracks. There was no one left alive to realize just how important Emily Erdo was. Right, okay. He had top clarification. And that's what my books were about. I'm giving you the actual document sources. I'm a skeptic. I have to be.

When I buy a piece of art and I want to resell it, I cannot resell something that is not validated. Right. Sure. And that's what I'm telling you, don't believe me. I have no problem with a skeptic. You know, hey, if you think that old Ed Wilson boy, he's full of crap, that's fine. You're entitled. I'm the same way.

I'm a skeptic. But what I'm doing is this. I'm giving you what I've determined, and then I'm giving you the original source you can read for yourself. The original picture source, you can look for yourself. This is all for your own eyes, guys. So we've got some really fascinating things that are very newsworthy today. Just think about it. This is not UFO news.

This is New York Times article. NASA did not control its photos. That's exactly, I'm so glad you said that. Because that's exactly what I was just about to say was, I really want to drive that home because it's almost hard to even wrap your head around it. What you just told us that is that NASA didn't control their own materials. They didn't control their own photos that were coming back from space. They were going through this MPIC, which is an early iteration of CIA. No, it was CIA had already been made CIA.

CIA created MPIC. They created it. Okay. So they were, they were the ones. So CIA was essentially usurping the authority of NASA in the 60s and maybe even the 70s. Still today. It's still today. Okay.

The NPIC, they changed the name. As I said, you have to be a historian. You have to follow these names. It was the OSF. Then it became CIA. Then that branched off in their subdivision. Now the NPIC and the photograph system came about because you need a method to keep secrets. So I'm going to hold this up again.

If you look at the actual document on the cover of the book here, it's six inches by nine inches. The format that it has, there's the word unclassified at the top and unclassified at the bottom. That's right. In my photo analysis, I sent this away the original that I got off to microtrace, which is a forensic verification service in Chicago, Illinois. and what their main business is on these multi-multimillion dollar lawsuits that go on, they analyze paper documents for authenticity and they charge lots and lots of money. They charged me $5,000 for the 80-page report that is here in the book.

And on the back cover, you can see some of the photo analysis two rows of it, that the UFO is in different colors. They did everything. They did ink analysis, paper analysis. I'm the one who did the lithograph analysis. There's 80 pages of a scientific document, forensic evidence showing that this is consistent with the time period that it happened. Okay.

Came back legit. And here's the other thing. The documents that I downloaded were secret for 12 years. The voice transcripts from the Gemini 11, Michigan, right on the cover of the document itself. And I've included the cover on the book so you can read for yourself, Secret for 12 years from 1960s. to 1978, this information was not released.

That's why people never went back and did this. That was old news. We'd even completed the Apollo program by the time. That was the mission debriefing file, okay? You know what a mission debriefing is, right? Sure. You get that pilot in there immediately after because we've got to get this information fresh because it's important, important information.

The actual debriefing, same thing. Secret for 12 years, okay? So I got to ask you this, Ed. NASA, have you gotten their attention, Ed? I mean, have they reached out to you and said, how did you get all this? And like, are they surprised by it? No, I didn't talk to anybody at NASA. Okay.

What I did was I did Freedom of Information Act, right? Freedom of Information Act, they have a whole department. And I used the, you know, I followed Carl Now. Everybody knows Colonel Carl Now, right? former command of the South Africa command. And he's gone on there and talked about how there's evidence of UFOs and stuff. And he said, talks about the spy craft too and following the trail. Originally, some of this stuff went to the Atomic Energy Commission because the 1952 act of Congress called the Atomic Secrets Act,

allowed them to take photographs and put them under the classification of atomic energy because nobody's going to question whether these UFOs are run by atomic energy or not. So that's where, and so it goes to the Atomic Energy Act, Secrecy Act. There goes to the Atomic Energy Commission. That transmorphs into the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. And so there's whole trails of evidence out there, guys. This book is chock full of leads. I'm an old man.

I'm getting ready to die, kids. Jump out there. Help me out, okay? You don't know it. But someone out there listening today, I guarantee you someone out there listening, in the day is going to have a fire lit under their can and they're going to go out and they're going to start investing in it. And they're going to be the one who makes a tremendous, tremendous contribution. Yeah. It's just incredible to me, honestly, that all this information has been out there,

these pictures of, again, one of the clearest pictures I've ever seen of a flying saucer. I know that's kind of the main point of the show here today, that this picture that was taken on Gemini, that, you know, you have the original that was there in possession of Scott Simkinson and and given to Emily Yurtle. I mean, this is all stuff that was readily available. I wanted to ask you, too, about the involvement of Leslie Keene and Travis Taylor. Now, New York Times 2017, she wrote the article for anybody who doesn't remember, you know, groundbreaking article there for New York Times.

They kind of really brought the conversation into the mainstream with the UFO topic. And Travis Taylor has always been brought up as far as, like, this mysterious figure within NASA. So how did they play into this, Ed? when it comes to your book and your research. I owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to Leslie Kane. In the book, you will see that right up in the front, she is recognized as the person who's contributed the most to my ability to do any research in this topic.

I wrote to her initially when I was looking for help from someone who might be able to give me a scientific approach to this investigation. I wrote to her because she is the preeminent, I'll say it right here. There is nobody else that matches the journalistic integrity

of Leslie King. And when she got back in contact with me and said that she was willing to take on the investigation, I was absolutely thrilled. And the book would not have gone without her. She put me in charge in touch with Travis.

Taylor. Okay. Travis Taylor's got a report in there. There's a 20-page report that Travis Taylor did on the UFO lithograph. And the back appendixes of the book contained five scientific reports provided to me, courtesy of Leslie Keane. Without her, I would not have discovered the first instances of people contacting to help me. But the research is all my own.

Every bit of the research is mine. Every bit of everything that was uncovered is mine. These were just some scientific validation that were following the proper steps to verify what we have. Yeah, that's huge. So Leslie Kane, guys, she's great. And again, so read those five scientists reports on the lithograph. Yeah. And I think this is absolutely worthy of documentaries and history channel and all these things because it's extremely.

I'm in talks with them right now. Oh, perfect. There you go. You've got a real blockbuster here. Perfect. I wanted to ask you, though, before we were done, about the House Oversight Committee looking into this. I mean, one of the big things that they're frustrated about, and I can tell you this firsthand because I've spoken to some Congress people about this, one of the things I've frustrated about is that they feel like, and probably rightfully so, that information is being hidden from them.

So, I mean, is that what's going on? Is that what you found as well? Yes. Yes. Everybody's going through the wrong personnel. It's slight of hand. It's just like a magician. That's what Spycraft is. They hold a shiny object up here and the magician's holding up here and you're looking at that.

And over here, he's taking it out of his pocket or he's putting it into his pocket. That's what Spycraft is. So they put in it. Everybody's saying, well, NASA must have it. Well, I've got the documents now showing why NASA never did have it. The documents show that after that 1965 investigation into the Cape Canaveral Mosaic that they made, it's called the Mosaic is the title. the document, they said no more. It says, we have to have control of all the photos that are released.

We cannot let this up. And that's what they, and that's where the 56 to 58 MPIC documents come or not, yeah, MPIC documents come into play. This is a genuine document, but it is a sanitized briefing document. It's made, a lithograph is made, okay, from a photographic negative. We have the list of the photographic negative reproducers there at MPC. This was their job, was to make sanitized briefing documents for the limited number

of people who were to be informed of secrets. That way, if you have to be able to inform these people, you can't give them something that can be back engineered from, that's part of their drug. So these briefing boards were made. Probably only

eight briefing boards at the very most were ever made of this Simpkinson lithograph. Obviously, Scott Simpkinson with his top secret clearance, Emily Erdle, by the way, on that Apollo 13, was the number two person to contact. The first one was the head of the mission, Colonel I can't remember her name. Number two on the secret list of that emergent thing

was Emily Erdle because it was her job. There's a list of their home phone numbers in that document, where they were in Cape Canaveral, their home phone numbers, their home addresses. She was the number of two person that was there to tell them we have a problem. So she started in 1945 with NACA. Semkins started in 43. You see, I can go on for.

Oh, no, it's just. It's just. Somewhere out there, one of you people out there pick this up and run with it. I'm sure how a lot of people will be reaching out because this is something that I think a lot of people are going to attach themselves to here, Ed. and it's fresh for a lot of people. Again, this was news to me and new to me. This has been in a basement. It's incredible.

This has been hidden information since 1966. And that's the incredible thing about this, is that, again, hidden right under our nose. But all this documented information from NASA, these sanitized briefing documents, the, you know, lithographs, the information, the names, the paper trails of how all this was done, how was hidden from NASA. It's just, it's unbelievable to me. Real quick, last question, Ed. still how it's done with NASA? I mean, are these photos, like, you know, recent photos? They're still hidden to this day from NASA?

Do they know what they have? Of course they are. This photo, my God, you keep hearing all these people talk about. We know it's not from Earth because if it were our adversaries, we'd be helpless, right? That's right, yeah. I mean, how often do we hear them talking about it? It's, well, how do you know that it's, you know, aliens or whatever? Right.

How do you know that? Well, because we know our adversaries, right? And we know if they had this information, we would no longer be a functioning government. I'm a skeptic. And that's why I can find this evidence because I have to prove it to myself. And I have proved it to myself, believe it or not. I don't believe it. I keep saying, well, gee, I don't know how I can find any more evidence than this.

So don't believe me. Believe your own eyes. Yeah, incredible stuff to consider here, Ed. This has been really, I think, kind of groundbreaking in some ways to discuss these topics with you. And I hope that everybody will continue to look into this. I know I will. I'm going to keep up with this. I'm going to keep up with you.

In the meantime, how can people find, I know I mentioned the books at the beginning, but as we go out here, how do people find what you've already written and what can we look forward to for the third book? In the third book, you will have a complete list of all the CIA documents that prove everything. that we've been talking about today. The easiest way to find me. I mean, any bookstore deals with Ingram Sparks and published my books through Ingram Sparks, they can find it for you.

But the easiest way, and what I want you to know, is these pictures are fantastic in the book. It's a coffee table book that will never be forgotten. There's no greater compilation of the early Mercury photos than this. You can pick it up every day, and just enjoy it. But it's expensive, okay? And I don't want you guys to shy away from going to the Amazon books side.

And the two titles are The Simkinson NASA Archive UFO. It's on Amazon books. And the reason I'm telling you to go there is, I want you to see the photographs for free. Right. So the front cover has the photo, the back cover has photos. The second book on Amazon also is Hidden, under I know how the Simkinson UFO led to confirmation of strange graph report to Congress.

When I discovered this lithograph and I started finding evidence, you could not stop me. And I have not stopped to this day. So it's going to be three years in March. The idea is, let's get this evidence out there. I found it amazingly, amazingly convincing. And I'm so grateful that you have an audience of people who are diligent enough to, pursue this kind of information so that we have some clarification finally on what's been going on and how it's been going on. Yeah. Now, well, well said, Ed, and again, I don't use this word lightly, but I really feel like what you've done here and what we've talked about today is pretty groundbreaking. And there's, I think, going to be a lot that stems off from this,

a lot of information, a lot of things that are found out because of what you've presented here today and what you presented in your books. Wonderful. I can't wait to see how all this develops. And I appreciate you coming on to discuss it and present it all here today. Ed Wilson, thank you so much. Hi, you're listening to Meditating with Jan from Toyota. Soften your focus and visualize yourself off-roading in a Tacoma. Now engage your senses. What do you hear?

A donkey! Because you're driving the kids to a farm sanctuary and a Grand Highlander. Breathe in, breathe out, and go from dreaming it to driving it today. Dealer inventory may bury. See your participating Toyota dealer for details. Event ends March 31st. Toyota, let's go places. So, there you go.

What do you make of it? Completely up to you. You even heard Ed say during the interview, you know, it's up to you. You heard him say, look, I'm a skeptic. I had to convince myself of this as well. And he spent a lot of time and money over the past three years doing just that. You know, reaching out to Leslie Keene. She got Travis Taylor involved.

I mean, you know, having the photos, the negatives. sent out to these people in Illinois to do the forensic work on it, 80 pages of this forensic report in the book. I mean, he paid $5,000 for that. I don't know if I would pay $5,000 for something that, you know, I wasn't sure was real or not. So kudos for him for kind of taking that leap of faith. In fact, I know I wouldn't pay $5,000 for it, but he did, and we appreciate that. And Travis Taylor putting in 20 pages of his own analysis on this photograph, lithograph, if you will. Um, it's just, it's incredible stuff that was presented here today, honestly. And again, make of it what you will.

That's always what we've been about here on UAP. I saw some of the skepticism initially on social media and that is completely fine. You heard, you know, you heard Ed say there himself that he's skeptic. I said it myself at the beginning. First glance at this, you know, photo or lithograph, however you want to refer to it, first glance of it and you say to yourself, this is obviously fake. It looks ridiculous. But I mean, what, what do we do with all that?

Everything there is presented. You can look at it for yourself. And I'm going to go ahead and also put out a lot of the information that Ed spoke about when he comes to, you know, like raw photographs, links, different ways that you can see these pictures and everything. So I'll get that out on social media over the coming days as we head into the weekend and to Christmas week as well. But my goodness. You know, I think one of the things that really got me as well, and there was obviously a lot in there. but one of the things that really got me was the side about how this stuff is hidden,

how it's essentially whitewashed through the different agencies, how the CIA essentially controls this stuff, and it's kind of whitewashed two or three times over. So by the time NASA even gets anything, it's second or third generation photos or images, prints that they're getting, and they may not even be getting the entire story,

which is very interesting to hear when he talks about how, well, when they say that to Congress, they're not lying. because it's very possible that they're not seeing the entire picture quite literally. It's startling to say the least to think about how far back this goes. Again, this goes back to 1966. And we're just now finding out about it over the past couple of years and really, really hitting the mainstream over, I would say the past, I don't know, six months or so about this, you know, the existence of this image.

And it's all because he found it in an auction. And NASA said, we don't want anything to do with it because they didn't realize. who Emily Yerdo was until it was too late. Too late for them anyway, because this is out there now. So what do we do with it? I mean, this really could be, it could be, the clearest image of a UFO ever taken. Possibly, right?

I know we might think of a couple of other ones, maybe like the Calvin UFO or maybe anything else. But this is from space. Like if this is the real deal, and there's a very convincing, compelling case there that says it really might be, this whole thing, that we're talking about a picture taken from space of a classically shaped flying saucer type of craft

flying above Earth in Earth's orbit. It's just the implications of this can't be overstated. So like I said to Ed there during the conversation, I'm going to continue to keep up on it. This is not the last time I'm going to talk about it. It just so happens, like I said, we're heading into the Christmas season. So I'm not going to have a lot of other times to follow up on this in the immediate future, but certainly expect more follow-ups on this as we head

into 2026. And, you know, good or bad. What I mean by good or bad is real or fake, right? But look forward, you know, look at it for yourself. Obviously, I had the picture up there, got a lot of attention. So if you haven't seen this picture yet, you can check it out on my Twitter at UA Podcast 850. That's at UA Podcast 850 on Twitter and on TikTok. I'll try to get some this up on TikTok as well and, you know, YouTube and all that good stuff at UA podcast on YouTube, but it's all there on Twitter at the moment. So certainly check it out, see what you think for yourself. And I'm sure, like I said, you know, during our conversation there, how frustrating this must be for Congress or for an oversight committee that are

interested in looking into this. But it might be impossible for them to see the negatives or the originals of a lot of different images because they've been whitewashed so many times. So by the time it even gets to them, they're not even looking at the real thing. anymore. I mean, again, the implications of all this stuff is just unbelievable, but it's all what really intrigued me and got me to do this interview because I 100% honest with you right now, totally up front. When I first read this information, I got an email from Ed Wilson himself presenting this to me. And it probably took me a few weeks, actually, to respond and really kind of dig into this and say, this actually is something that could be a thing.

And again, because at first glance, I'm thinking to myself, okay, this is, this is kind of silly. But as I got into it, I realized, oh, this is worth a conversation. And that's why I, you know, it drew me to this because of the paper trail, because of the simple facts that this stuff, you know, the documents, the hard copies, all these things that came from the possession of a guy like Scott Simpkinson who you heard there. And like I said at the beginning, now you probably know why I said at the beginning, could be one of the most consequential names in space history that no one ever knew. I mean, he's there before NASA even existed.

Part of the original Mercury and Gemini and Apollo programs. Lead engineer is unbelievable. This guy is an American hero. And I've never heard of him. I don't know if you have, but I had never heard of Scott Simpkinson until I saw. started speaking to Ed Wilson about him. So this really, really deeply intrigued me. And like I said, I'll be continuing to follow up on this into 2026.

I really want to look more into this. And by all means, if you find out more, please let me know and reach out to me on social media at those handles I gave or through email, because you can direct message me on social media or through email, S-D-N-R-U-A-P at gmail.com, S-D-I-E-N-R-U-A-P at g-mail. For this or anything else that you have on your mind, really, if any of It doesn't just have to be about this. But also, I'd be curious to find some of the archives at the University of South Florida. Ed mentioned that to me in more detail outside of the interview.

And we spoke about it a little bit. And I thought, you know, man, maybe I'll make a trip up there because I don't think Ed knew this, but I told him. I said, yeah, you know, I'm in South Florida. But the University of South Florida is not actually in South Florida, oddly enough. It's actually in Tampa. So you're talking, you know, more northwest Florida, really kind of like central. West Central Florida, you know, out there by the Gulf. So, you know, maybe I'll have to make a road trip out there one of these days and ask to see the archive at the University of South Florida.

Go Bowls if we have any South Florida fans. But if you, you know, take a trip over there and take a look into these archives and see what they might have, because that's the stuff that Scott Simpkinson had at his office at Cape Canaveral. And Emily Yurtle had a lot of his things from Johnson Space Center and some of his other locations. that's where we got these NASA archives images. So unreal stuff, truly, truly incredible. And I hope you enjoyed it and take it all in. Listen back to it if you need to.

I've listened to it a couple of times myself. I'm not going to lie just so I can try to wrap my head around it throughout, you know, the editing process. I've listened to this a lot of times. So if you need to do that, by all means. And then look forward to next week because I'm not slowing down, even as we get into the Christmas week here on early. next week, probably Monday, I will have out my episode with James Fox. And just unreal.

In the interest of full disclosure, because you know I'm all about disclosure here, I actually just finished recording with him about an hour ago as I speak to you. Or maybe about two hours ago. Yeah, about two hours ago. As I'm speaking to you now doing this episode, I also recorded an interview with James Fox in between putting together this episode here today. And we were speaking about his new film moment of contact, new revelations of alien encounters. And it's all about the Varginia case that, you know, he presented so well in his original film of Moment of Contact. Just unbelievable updates in there that's, we only had 30 minutes in that interview because

he was on like a huge press tour talking about this. And I was very appreciative that, you know, he was able to include me on that, on that press tour. But I even said to him, like, dude, I wish I could talk to you for the next two hours about this because the things that he's putting out in this, I guess you can say moment of contact part two, if you will, you know, interviews with the neurosurgeon who says he was in the room with the alien body that was discovered in Virginia, new details about, you know, other creatures, other beings that were seen, what this neurosurgeon said that he felt when looking into the

eyes of this creature, just all these incredible details about physical ailments and physiology and just unreal stuff. Really, we're going to go on a wild run here of UAP episodes for today and then early on next week into Monday. So just completely on fire here heading into Christmas. So hopefully you enjoyed this one. Take it all into consideration. Going to be following it up on it because the claims are explosive.

There's no doubt about it. We could be, again, looking at one of the most groundbreaking cases in recent memory. And then to go along with new details on Varsenia. not slowing down here at all right now. Hopefully you enjoy it all today and next week. And then on top of that, I'm going to have a lot of different greatest hits episodes coming out through Christmas, through New Year's Week. I'm not going to leave without having anything come out. I wanted to try to put some of those older ones out as well and resurface those.

A lot of great interviews that I've done in the past that I wanted to resurface. So I'm going to put a lot of those out along with a couple of other original episodes. So look forward to it all here on UAP. We are loaded. We are stacked heading into 26. And I can't wait to come back with you on that interview with James Fox in just a couple of days as well. So until then, like I said, follow along on social media through email if you like to do that. And continue to download and subscribe to this show wherever you get your podcasts and all the major platforms.

Just search UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast. But with all that said here today, I will say once again, thank you for everything. and for all the support throughout the history of the show because it really, really means everything to me. So thank you so much. So until next time, it is Stephen Deiner here saying, be well. Thanks. We'll talk again soon right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast.