UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 185 What is the Dark Side of Ufology?

Episode Date: February 3, 2026

Well known social media personality and documentarian, Red Panda Koala, sits down with Stephen Diener to go in depth on the threats and doxxing he has received by some in the UFO community who are allegedly connected to very high profile figures. Why is it happening and how deep does it go? Plus, what really happened with the drone situation, will Trump really disclose, and does Greenland have more value then we are being told? All of this and much more right now...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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brokerage LLC member finra sipc not a bank yes welcome back in to you ap steven dean are back with you here as always on the unidentified alien podcast episode number 185 but we are chucking along here and i'm happy to bring this one to you i spoke about it last week and now finally here we are my interview uh with red panda koala and so just a little background here real quick um call them red for short. If you don't really follow along on social media a lot, then you may not be truly familiar with the name Red Panda Kuala. He's a massive presence on social media when it comes to the UFO topic. And you'll also hear me refer to another, I guess, personality on social media named Tupacabra. And he goes by Tupa for short. And they're both of them are

very present in the UFO topic on social media. very recognizable names and they have a big voice within this topic on social media especially. So it was exciting to bring him on here because he's kind of like at a different angle of this. And you know, I always try to get all the angles of the story to see what's happening, to see what's going on, you know, maybe, you know, pick this part of the information and added into this part of the information. And one of the main things that we got into here, which hence the name of the episode, the dark side of uphology, about the first, I don't know,

maybe close to half, a little bit less than half of the episode, is about the dark side of things going on behind the scenes. You know, we always try to focus on really just truly the mysteries so we can try to find out the answers, try to connect the dots. But there are things happening behind the scenes when it comes to doxing. And you heard me kind of touch on it with Patrick recently when I spoke to him from Vetted. And a lot of that is going on. And I wanted to address it because I don't want to see these things happening and see people suffering,

seeing people getting threatened and just ignore it. That just doesn't feel right to me. So I wanted to kind of try to put a light on this more light than maybe is, you know, previously been put on there and have someone who's kind of in the middle of it, or not kind of, who is in the middle of it. It's central figure within this topic of doxying, you know, being threatened. A lot of the dark stuff that's happening behind the scenes, and that is Red Panda Koala. He's really truly in the thick of it, and he's been involved with, you know, police reports and all these different things.

Now, you'll also hear me mention Lou Elizondo. You know, he goes into his main, I guess, figure with his experiences are people who are connected to Lou Elizondo. And that's who he brings up. So I also want to preface it, and we say it here too, but I'll say it now on the intro. This isn't an attack on anybody. This isn't an attack on Lou. I've had good experiences with Lou.

I've had him on the show before. You know that. I would be happy to have him on again. I enjoy talking to him. Personally, on and off, you know, the mic, if you will. I enjoy talking to him. So this isn't an attack on anybody, an indictment on anybody. This is a conversation, at least the first half of the episode,

is a conversation about what is going on behind the scenes, why is it happening, and how can we stop it? so people can stop feeling threatened just when talking about the UFO topic. That's why the name of the episode is called what it's called, the dark side of uphology. But then after that, we get into what we call the fun things. We start talking about, you know, some of the ancient, you know, questions. When it comes to the pyramids in Egypt, we talk about Greenland and, you know, possible connections there.

We talk about Bigfoot. We talk about the drones. We get back into that discussion and try to kind of rehash some of that because, Red Pantic-Cawala did a huge documentary about that when it was all going on. So we try to rehash some of that and bring up some of the old questions there. And we get into the recent reports from the documentarian out of England, Mark Christopher Lee, when he says that Trump is going to disclose the UFO truth, that, you know, this is something that's been going on. So we get into a lot of those things as well, but we start off with this topic.

And that's what you can expect right now on this extended edition, not too. parts just going for it right now extended edition here of it because it felt right it felt better just one thing here so enjoy it now myself with red panda koala an in-depth discussion about a lot of things right here on uap enjoy well i'm excited here because for the first time we're bringing on red panda koala famous all over social media in the ufo community and i'm happy to bring him on here to uap today we are going to talk about a lot of different subjects we're going to go from a to z Red. If I can call you Red, thanks for coming on here to you AP. Thank you, Stephen, for having me.

Yeah, I'm a fan of your stuff, too, on social media. I'm a very fan of your positive energy. I see you go out to the hearings and stuff and keeping things positive and light, and, you know, still touching on stuff. See, talking to Burleson and representative. So I think we need more people like you in the community that are, you know, enjoy it, but also you're willing to have me on, you know, and we're going to talk about some kind of real stuff, too.

Not that the other stuff's fake, but there's a little. a lot of people who it's like there's a lot of people who it's like almost they'll get jaded it seems like as time goes on in their time in the field and I haven't seen you come off as jaded so I do appreciate that energy you bring to the community thank you man I appreciate that and I appreciate the flattery to start off the conversation so they thank you for that no but thank you seriously that that that means a lot um that said I know you mentioned some of the other stuff the real so to speak and by real we mean things happening in it in everyday life that actually are affecting your life. And we're going to start here. And I'll preface this by saying actually just

something that you and I were talking about off the air before we started recording here. And that what we're going to talk about to start off is what I refer to as the dark side of the UFO topic. And we're going to get into, you know, a lot of the really fun stuff, the things that we were used to talking about, the ancient history of the UFO past, the drones. We're going to get into that. We're getting into some of the more mysterious things and even some of the more current topics in the UFO world. But I wanted to start here. here because you and Tupacabra, also known as Tupo, two very big voices on the UFO community and social media have been going through some stuff.

And by stuff, I mean threats, doxing. It's been pretty serious. And I've been following it kind of from afar. And it's scary stuff. And the reason why I want to start off with it is because I think it's something that should be brought to light. And I know that it's not, and I say this for anyone listening right now who might be like, this isn't what I come to UAP for.

But I'm bringing this up first because I know it's not the normal UAP subject, but I think it's an important one because it does involve real-life threats in the UFO community, and it's something that you're going through, something that Tupacabra is going through. I know you guys work together a lot for anybody who's not familiar. So what is happening? What are you guys dealing with, and why is it happening? Sure. So let me, it's such a big, tangled web, so how to even address it.

But at first I want to thank you for even bringing this up, because a lot of people do shy away from it. And I understand totally why people do. And, you know, I've been making content on this topic since like 2018, 2019. And for years, I also shied away from it because it was just like, I didn't really understand what was going on. And it does get messy and stuff like that. But I guess broad topic, before I get into kind of the more specific stuff recently is, you know, I've been making UFO history documentaries. And something I used to say that I loved that I wasn't really in the kind of access game of the current interviews was like everyone I'm making interviews about is pretty much like dead or old and they're not really current. You know what I mean?

So I didn't really have to deal with some of the like the weird access dynamics that are at play here. But basically as time went on and I was looking at the landscape here, I noticed there was this kind of mechanism and it's almost comparable to like Scientology Fair Gaming. Where if and it's not just like me or two, but right, it's like there's whistleblowers, there's excitement. there's experiences. There's plenty of people without platforms who've also brushed up against this mechanism where it's like

if you see or do the wrong thing and you have big enough of a voice this kind of apparatus will come in and docks harassed, threaten people until they kind of go away. And I've seen many people go away, right? I've been here since 2018,

2019, I've seen people come and go because of this mechanism. And so after a while I just kind of was like over, I felt like I was being complicit in this kind of dynamic if I didn't say anything. And then two, there was this other dynamic where there's people who told me like, hey, I got into the UFO field because of your topic or because of your videos and now I'm getting harassed. Now I'm getting dogs.

And I think another dynamic to be aware of is like UFO cults. The UFO subculture is probably one of the most cult prone subcultures in American history. There's a lot of really fanatical energies within this topic going back decades, right? I mean, Heaven's Gate. And I'm aware that the whole cult branding has been also used by the intelligence community to kind of to like promote the stigma. So I try not to fall into that, but there is a very real thing. And some of these figures in euthology, it's been disappointing to see people who I used to view as heroes seem to kind of lean into that. Are they kind of, they're happy with having fanatical groups of people online who do really gross and disgusting things on their behalf. Many times they have like personal relationships with them. And here, another thing to

worth noting is this isn't a universal thing, right? So, for example, I've seen no evidence of David Grush engaging with this kind of stuff. You know, I'm a real big Grush supporter. I think he's like probably one of the best people currently doing stuff like in a big way in this topic right now. And I don't see him falling into the same traps of, you know, who we're going to talk about here as Lou Elizondo, who is somebody who I do see falling into this dynamic and who has been for years. And, you know, I didn't always start off as like a Lou hater. And I wouldn't even consider myself that now. If you look at some of my early videos, I really used to include him in a lot of stuff because, you know, it was like, oh, there's this dude from the government kind of saying all this

interesting stuff. My normie friends would used to make fun of me and say, like, oh, why is this guy in every one of your videos? Because I really was, I was Lou Crew through and through, you know, and it was only after time of seeing various witnesses. And I guess some concrete examples I could put is Jeremy McGowan, who I recommend you talk to. And there's some articles. I think you put these out on YouTube right in next. Maybe I'll comment some of the articles I'm referencing. Yeah. Where he was a whistleblower, he was a witness, he saw UFOs in the 90s while serving the military in Jordan, and he was kind of brought into the Lou Elizondo fold, and he started noticing

some weird red flags behind the scenes, and this is about 2019, 2020 timeframe. And he backed off from there, some of the things being, some of the red flags being like, Lou Elizondo was kind of lying to various production companies about that person, he, he, They had made this, like, UFO hunting truck, and Lou Elizondo was lying about that to people. This was before Lou Elizano had publicly written in his book that he was a remote viewer, and he was telling him all this, like, psychic stuff and saying he was predicting his future and whatnot. And basically, when that dude backed away from that, he got what I call, like, the basically Scientology Fair Game Tactics where people were, and these are people closely connected to Lou,

were calling his work trying to get him fired, trying to get a security clearance revoked, some of these online trolls would post pictures of his minor children and his wife and kids like that and disparaging like edits made to him and it's just really gross behavior and again it's like Lou Elizondo was interacting with a lot of these troll accounts doing it and I know for a fact

Louelizondo had like has interacted with him and could easily tell them to stop or like you know what I mean turn down the temperature or maybe stop following them but he doesn't and it almost seems like he likes that kind of thing if he feels he's been wronged and slighted do you think do you think right he knows and actually and I bring this stuff

And it might sound like a naive question, but I think it's worth asking because I had Patrick on here from Vetted just a little while back. And this was a topic that we touched on as well because this is something that he experienced. As well, yep. Right. Personally. And it had to do. And he made the point that of all the videos and of all the topics or the UFO figures that he covers, the most drama he normally gets comes from when he speaks about Lou Elizando. And by the way, for full disclosure, and I'm sure anybody maybe for listening, you probably,

heard the episode. I've had Lou on the show here before. Yeah. I've spoken to Lou in front of the camera and behind the cameras. So, you know, I'm not here to be like this, this and that, you know, take this, take that. I want to talk about it. And I made that point on social media today, too, before we spoke. I had people coming at me saying, oh, wow, not listening to you anymore. And I said, wow, how come? And then someone's like, oh, well, just look at all the other comments. I said, look, I'm for talking to people. Okay. I've talked to you now, and I've spoken to Lou. So obviously, I'm not trying to, like, pull people one way or the other.

I'm interested in trying to find out what's going on. And I think everybody else should try to find out what's going on, too. So that was a very long-winded lead-up to me asking, um, do you think Lou knows what's happening, what people are specifically doing in his name, or do you think he just

shelters himself from all this stuff and does, and tries not to pay attention to what's going on? I would like to believe he doesn't know, but I think it's just kind of naive. And especially at this point, this many years into it. You know, he came from an organization called SIFA, which was made after 9-11 with the Patriot Act. It was basically they were gangstocking and surveilling anti-Iraq war protesters. And they actually got shut down in, I believe, 2008. And they were also doing

shady stuff like blackmailing politicians and whatnot, but they were putting plants into anti-Iraq war movements and student groups that were protesting, like recruitment centers on high schools and stuff like that. So kind of shady stuff. And, I'm not. also directly connected to Dick Cheney, whose names comes up a lot, right? So there's that element of him where it's like he's kind of already been involved

in kind of quasi-government, infiltration of political groups. And then there's also the other thing if he's a trained counterintelligence officer. So it's like he'd have to be the worst counterintelligence officer ever to not know about it. But I also do know also that there's been various people

who I know have reached out to him specifically about this thing and been like, hey, dude, why are you engaging with this kind of activity. Some of them are Alejandro Rojas, who's been in the field for a long time. I'm not sure if you've talked to him. He's part of Enigma Labs now. Not yet. Yeah, he said he's talked to Lou about this specifically.

Deep Rasad, another great member of the community in fields talked to him about specifically. And so there's just too much going on. And kind of like I didn't watch the interview, but I've talked about this too. It's like, this doesn't happen with Grush or with Jeff Nusitelli or any of these other people. It's really just Lou. right and it's like why is that and maybe you know maybe um for a while there i was open to like maybe this is part of the op against lou and like he's not really aware but as time went on and i really looked at it it it really seems like he is fully aware of it and maybe i could kind of

get into the the more recent stuff going on with me and in tuba yeah please go ahead so the recent stuff is it's just we started covering this in about 2023 and by that point there was already years worth of documentation and evidence with various other um experiences podcasters of like kind of shady going on behind the scenes. And so, you know, and I want to preface this too. Like, Stephen, I appreciate you having me on. I hope great people hearing me talk about this. Please don't come for Stephen at all.

Like, you know what I mean? He's just, he's had Lou on. He's having me on. He's not endorsing my, like anything like that. You know what I mean? Because it's going to get messy here. That's all good. Appreciate it.

But one of the things we covered was that one of Lou Elizando's, like, favorite little show's Disclosure Tonight was closely associated with the doxing of David Grush. Now, this is separate of the medical records getting out, but kind of connected, in my opinion. But before his article went public in 2023, various elements of that show, which Lou Frequins, put his name out, said, we're going to flush out this cockroach. And even Leslie Keenan Ralph Blumenthal, who wrote the articles on Grush, said that. It was like some of the stuff going on on UFO Twitter, forced them to not wait for the Washington Post to do their vetting process

and to have to go through the debrief. Now, once we pulled on this thread, that's when we started getting a, like some more harassment going on. And it kind of culminated, it started really culminating about September of last year when we finally got one of the old host of the show to kind of go whistleblower, if you will, about the dynamics going on behind the scenes.

And they had said this character, Mike Disclosure, who Lou is friends with, has made videos with, done multiple interviews. He's done videos saying like, hey, I love everything you're doing, Mike Disclosure. He says that that character, Mike Disclosure put him up to doing that

and went into great detail about how that happened. And basically once that started happening, the dog scene harassment really started increasing from that little camp. Right after that happened, Lou went on their show with Mike Disclosure and said, Mike Disclosure told him, Lou, all the people attacking you, they're going down, brother. And it's crazy they always view, like, I guess real quick, here's another dynamic too, right? They view like, so I'm kind of a journalist. I consider yourself a journalist too, right?

And you see me on social media, I kind of do like the clipping news thing now ever since I'm not part of it anymore. Fire News, but, you know, Kim Star kind of, like, taught me in Tupa how to do kind of, like, news clipping and stuff like that. And I'm appreciative of the stuff I learned there, but I'm glad to be able to kind of do it in my own way and not so much centered on the, on Kim Star's kind of worldview. The point being is, I don't view myself as attacking Lou, but I just cover the news broadly. I cover when Sean Kirkpatrick-Patrick lies. I cover when Lou Elizondo lies.

You know what I mean? But if I cover a Sean Kirk Patrick lie, I don't get hit with all this kind of backlash and stuff. Gotcha. So, like, I have to cover. if Leslie Keen is saying that David Grush's name coming out on UFOX force them to rush to the article, and then the people who actually did it said they were ordered to do this

by people closely associated with Lou Elizondo. And if you pay attention to this stuff going on, the David Grush, Lou Elizondo stuff, it's starting to percolate now, but I've known for years that it's like, those are not, they're not as grow as Lou Elizondo would like you to think. So in my view, I'm not like attacking Lou and I do that, but these people and his little sycopans view it that way.

and I could understand why because it's not the best light to be associated with like doxing and David Grush. I can understand why shady people would not want their shatiness to come forward. Anyway, so September, that happens. October, Lou goes on their show.

Mike Disclosure tells them, hey, these people attacking you referring directly to me and Tuba, they're going down, brother. We're going to get them deplatformed. Lou says we know exactly who they are. We've been doing this a long time. So kind of like galvanizing them,

which is another pattern we've seen with Lou. And that show, even very, you should talk to Manny 503, another documentary filmmaker who kind of had similar experiences a few years back. Point being, so since then, there's been a steady escalation from that camp, since this guy went whistleblower of various things. So they posted pictures of my sister from when she was a minor,

making allusions to rape and murder. They've posted my house just a few weeks ago now on their live stream. They posted my full address and said, I'm going to run out of oxygen soon. Oh, geez. This is Mike Disclosure did this. Okay, so Mike Disclosure on that show, he's the, He's the one who put all the stuff out that you're talking. Correct, correct.

Lou Elizondo did not do this, but I'll continue along here. This is one of the most egregious things, too, that just happened recently, was there's a member of our community. I'll just leave them unnamed for now, who is going through. And, you know, this is another element of this community. There's a lot of mental health issues, I would say, in this community that, you know, need to be addressed. You know, a trauma is a very big part of, I feel like UFO experiencers, right? There's so many people who were at their lowest low or in a traumatic moment when they had their UFO experience. So there's a member of this community who is open about how they've been very suicidal.

They were just Baker acted a week and a half ago, which means the COBS took them against their will to mental institution for a few days. And so they had felt that I had slided them in their whole ordeal, which, you know, I'm not trying to like class any shade on them. People need to deal with their kind of issues like that. But basically, that person viewed it as an opportunity to maybe. be like get back in me and they they they they they talk to mike disclosure about you know doing something to get back in me and mike disclosure unprompted so that person said hey like i feel like red panda slighted me um i was just i'm suicidal i was just baker acted and like i'm just upset right now and so mike disclosure in response sent him dossiers on me and teupacabra

wow and these dossiers included um where we lived where our parents lived where our siblings lived their full addresses their phone numbers where they were our height our age, our eye color, the number of square footage in my house, the number of rooms in my house, the fact that I live with my sister, my sister's nickname that I call her, a bunch of stuff, all our social media is on various accounts. And it's like why the person who, you know, initially wanted to kind of just get back in me was freaked out. And they went, what's the lower with this? They posted this publicly. And I mean, why else would somebody send information about my family's location to somebody who says I'm suicidal. Goodness gracious. Wow. And not only did they send

that, he sent after he sent all the information, he kind of put leading words of, and maybe I could, maybe I should pull it up so I'm not getting wrong, or maybe I'll want to leave it, but he basically said like the only reason that Tupin Red have gone away with this for so long is because no one's touched them in real life and no one's mess with them in real life. So almost goading them. He didn't say, hey, you should go violently attack them. But again, why would somebody give information like this on our families to somebody who's clearly suicidal and express that to them. And if you ask the person, they said they felt that Mike Disclosure wanted him to violently attack us and use that information.

I can't think of any other reason why my mom's address, why Tupa's mom's address, why Tupa's brother's address needs to be sent to anyone, let alone somebody who's by their own account mentally unstable. So this is Lou Elizondo's personal friend. Now, that was such an egregious thing that Mike Disclosure was actually kicked off the show disclosure tonight about five days ago. But me and Tupacabra have called on Lou Alizando to, you know, prove you're not connected to this dude. Share with us.

We know you have this information on this dude who's kind of quasi-anonymous online for our legal and criminal proceedings. Because I've been in touch with my local sheriffs about this. I was actually just about to ask you, did you guys, I mean, did it get to the point where you felt so threatened that you actually did get legal intervention or law enforcement intervention? This is all pretty fresh. I don't even think this is a week old now. But yeah, Tupacabra's talked to some lawyers. I've been in touch with my local sheriff's department since this all kind of kicked off in October because they were making weird allusions to us committing suicide and stuff like that too. And yeah, so we're kind of in the middle of all right now.

Wow. But yeah, we've called on Lou publicly to share with us this information to just kind of give him a chance to prove and he has yet to do that. We know he knows who this guy is. And yeah. And so again, it's like I don't think I came into the topic just probably like a lot of people. I don't know when you got into, but I got into it in 2017 with the big old push, because I didn't really been picking attention to it then. I just graduated college. I initially wanted to make documentaries on like coups and like regime changes from the CIA and stuff like that, like Guatemala, Iran, things like that.

Because that interests me. Yeah. And then this all kind of kicked off. And, you know, there kind of is fair overlap just in terms of like sciops and stuff like that. You know what I mean? So I got into that. And then again, yeah, like had I not covered this David Grush doxing. situation and probably wouldn't have happened, right?

So that's kind of the genesis of it and it just evolved from there and it only happens that you've noticed, it's only happened when it comes to people who are connected to Lou Elizondo. So that's where you and Tupacabra, and I apologize throwing his name out there, maybe I shouldn't do that.

No, no, you're good. But, you know, that's where you guys feel like in your experience that there is a connection there because of the people who are with him and you haven't seen Lou refuted or try to strike it down yet. So that's kind of where you guys are coming from then.

Yeah. And again, this behavior goes back years with not just me and Tupa, but various other people. And it's always with Lou. You know what I mean? 90503 documentary filmmaker was docs and harassed by the same group. Lou went on their show,

was galvanizing them. We actually have evidence of Lou Elizondo with one of his own sock puppets, um, taunting Area 503's girlfriend who's not a part of the UFO community back in 2022 when this was all going down because he made a documentary called Who's Lou about it. and it gets really convoluted, but just the point being, and I need to make a proper documentary series on this,

probably going to be like five or six parts because there's so many different moving pieces to it. But yeah, and again, it doesn't happen with Grush. Doesn't happen with Greer. I've been fairly critical of Greer. You know, I personally don't. That's another thing. They accuse me of, like, working for Greer,

and it's like, no, I don't. I personally, you know, I think there's enough evidence to show that the phenomenon. There's some negative aspects of it. And I also, I've seen people who, like, do CE5, and then they kind of get, like, haunted more or less, if you want to. So people who are saying it's all positive, it's all of them like, I kind of, I just don't buy that.

Not saying that he's like an evil person or anything, but this idea of like, I'm critical of Greer. I'm critical of Kirkpatrick. I'm critical of Susan Goff. You know what I mean? I'm critical of a lot of people that when I am, I don't get this kind of pushback or like have to talk to my local sheriffs because I goes online or putting pictures of my house, my sister, saying we're going to lose our right to oxygen. Wow. You know what I mean? Yeah, well, listen, you know, I'm glad we that we spoke about that first.

Like I said, not the normal UAP conversation, but it is one that I felt it was important to get out there because, you know, I do want to get the sides out there. And like I mentioned a little while ago, Lou's been on the show. If anybody's listening or maybe if Lou or anyone with someone connected to him, I invite him on again. I'm happy to talk to Lou again. I had a good experience with him. Yeah, he did. Yeah, he seems like a good, like, it almost reminds me of like a homeland or dynamic or something where it's like there's the public face of Lou of like Americana, you know, we're in doing this discussion. but then there's this underbelly of not just lewd the disclosure movement too, right?

There's the public face of disclosure, and there's this kind of like gross, dirty underbelly that some people brush up against every now and then. Yeah, I mean. It might not seem like part of it, but to me it's, it's very much partly. It affected David Grush. It affected this dynamic change the way the Grush role happened. That's a big part of history, you know what I mean? So it's, it might be far away from like the phenomenon.

And hopefully we'll get into that same with some of the Jersey drone stuff and stuff. Oh, yeah. But it is still, you know, counterintel. intelligence, narrative control, and messing with people, goes back here at Doty Benowitz type situations. For sure. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we could talk two hours just on the counterintelligence and the sciop aspect of

everything and, you know, the spy versus spy and how that all kind of gets into this. But I guess just to kind of, you know, before we move away from that, just to say again, that I appreciate you, you know, putting it out there and whatever anybody has to think about or say about it, make about what you will. Yeah. But I wanted to give you the opportunity to put it out there because I've seen a lot of the, for lack of a better term, yeah, you know, for lack of a better term, the drama. And I think that has a negative connotation, but so, but that's, that's the word.

Yeah, and again, I do this, you know, I was in the game for probably three or four years before I really started, like, taking this on head on. And I do it to warn other people. Because I've seen, like we talked in the back, like, Kelly Chase is another person, right, in the community who, like, she has this experienceer group that terms with Jay King and they seem to have brushed against something similar, not necessarily with Lou Elizondo, but just people need to be aware of. And I almost feel like it's my duty, because I think I told you this in the back chat. I don't know if I said don't hear yet. That like I've had people who told me like, hey, I got into the phenomenon and this whole

disclosure movement because of your content, right? Like your documentaries really help convince me like, oh, there's something here going on. Maybe I should spend some of my effort and time like helping out with this stuff. And then they've gotten docs and harassed too. So it almost feels like if I don't say like, hey, guys, there's also like there's some wolves around this thing, you know what I mean? It almost feels like predatory or like I was part of it. So that's why I personally speak out about it as much as I do.

Thank you for being willing to even talk about it, man. No, of course. And I get it. I get why people don't want to talk about it. And me too. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. There's a lot of landmines with it.

And like you said, you know, I knew, listen, I knew I was taking a risk talking about this with you because there are people who are not of right minds sometimes when it comes to this. And they take it, you know, another way. Like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe you're on this side or that side. And now I'm going to come after you. I understand the risk. So hopefully nothing like that happens But I wanted to have the conversation At least part of this episode

To have that conversation For the overall arching discussion And the message of Let's not do this stuff And I know that sounds elementary And I know that sounds like if I'm talking You know to kids and like saying Oh you know don't don't do that

That's bad you know bad bad you're going to get grounded No like seriously We're talking about people's lives here And it doesn't have to get that serious I know the UFO topic is a serious thing and I take it very seriously I've been doing this show for four and a half years now

yeah I think so right you have four and a half years so it is a serious topic there's a lot of ramifications that come from this topic but nothing that's serious where you have to threaten people's lives or docks their siblings

who are minors yeah my little sister shouldn't be crying no no and then there's also the bigger implication of too is like is this just kind of some rogue people online or is this part of the maybe the bigger narrative control mechanism is tied to the legacy programs directly. Who knows?

Still up for debate, honestly. Yeah. So overall, I hope this stuff stops. I hope that you and Tupa, Kelly Chase, knows she's gone through it. Anybody else who's gone through it. Vetted, yeah. Right, yeah, Patrick exactly just spoke to him about it. Hopefully no one has to go through this stuff anymore and cooler heads can start

to prevail because it's very unhealthy and it's nasty and it's dangerous. Agreed. Cool. Thank you, man, for covering that. Yeah. Let's get into the fun stuff now. All that said, right, exactly, kind of like part two of the conversation. Just recently, actually, you had on Ron James, and I know that's somebody that we shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S.

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Book the couple's massage. Make a dinner reservation while we bring you to our island home. Hawaii starts here. We've both spoken to. I've never had him on the show before. I hope to have him on soon, but I've spoken to him a bunch of times in person. Documentarian himself, he's done a lot of work with Mufon. He's one of the top, you know, head honchos with Mufon.

So talk about a little bit Ron James, what you guys just spoke about with a documentary. He's got coming out. You should totally have a month. Yeah. He did his documentary accidental and clear thing a few years ago. And he's coming out with the second part of it, which is going to be released in April. So he started, he's starting his little press tour. And I was very close with one of his friends, Allie, who was also very much affected by this weird doxing crafts mechanism.

But we'll shelve that for now. And so he came in and was talking about the documentary that he has going on coming up. So some cool things. He shared with me some snippets of it. So it was kind of cool. Have you been to like every hearing, right? Or how many hearings have you been to? The last two, I missed the first one, but with the last two that I went to.

So, yeah, the Elizondo one that you read, he was, one of the segments was that, uh, showing that, like, him and his team were kind of texting Burleson some of the questions to ask and stuff like that. And shouts out Burleson. I saw people were like clowning Burleson for that, but I think it's really awesome how, um, available he makes himself to. Oh, he, and he does. And he's, he takes it seriously. And I always appreciate that about him too. And, you know, like, he's talked to me. He's talked to Greer. He's talked to Lou. He's not, you know, he's, uh, there's some people he's talked to where I'm like, I'm like, I don't know if you even should talk to them, not because, like, they're evil or anything, but just because I don't know if their story's that valid, but he'll talk to anyone. He'll go down to Mexico to see the bugosphere, which I think is good. So that was kind of cool.

Another thing, yeah, I guess Ron James' little journey over some of this stuff. I think they talk about the Grush roll out and how some of that stuff had happened to. I haven't seen the full documentary. I just saw parts of it. I know there was a part from our chat, too, where they were talking about some of the metallurgical analysis done. And I guess, you know, like everyone. And I think they do deserve it. They call out Arrow.

in their thing because I guess Arrow was being a little shady with some of the metallurgical analysis of some of these UFO parts. So it was pretty cool. You should definitely get them on. Yeah, I absolutely want to. And so I actually I've been in touch with Ali a little bit. You mentioned her. So hopefully I get run on here soon because I would love to talk about

all that and everything's got going on in a new documentary. I want to get your thoughts on, and actually this is someone I'm going to have on pretty soon as well is Mark Christopher Lee. He and I are talking behind the scenes. Oh, okay. That's a name that I think people are starting to become familiar with. Speaking of filmmakers, he's a British filmmaker, you know, in the UFO

field. And he really kind of hit the scene sprinting for anybody who didn't know him or his work previously within the past week or so. His name has gotten out there because he came out with a video that alleged that an inside source in the Trump administration has given him the info that Trump and his team have written a disclosure speech that was originally supposed to be read in front of the UN, but is now set to be right on July 8th, which will be this year the 79th anniversary of the Roswell crash. So what do you make of that? Again, and I'm going to have on Mark soon here, so I'll be able to ask him these questions. I was, uh, I was not aware of Mark until I saw that stuff. So I'm not really familiar with his work or anything like that. I will say

it's a big claim. He definitely went hell of viral with it. Um, but I think there is maybe something to be said about the Trump administration broader topic and disclosure. He's got one of the most stacked administrations in terms of people who've said like pro-UFO stuff like he said a bunch of UFO stuff jaddy vans vice president said a bunch of UFO stuff Tulsi Gabbard the OD and I said a bunch of UFO stuff I think if anyone was going to do it it would be Trump you know what I mean also there's this whole like uncle connection with his uncle was connected to some UFO stuff I don't know people aware of it you know there's his uncle looked into the Tesla files yep which is one of the more known things another lesser known thing is that um Trump's uncle John

Trump was a scientific advisor to, she, I'm forgetting his name right now, General Schmidt, I believe his name is or something like that, but a general who had some weird moving arounds during the Roswell incident. And he was a radar technician and he helped develop radar early on during World War II for America. So radar, UFO. There's a lot of history there. Yeah, I think, I think John Trump was involved with MIT, if I remember correctly. Yes, involved with MIT, close friends with Vanavar Bush. Okay. His name comes up a lot too in MJ12, whether or not you believe it or not. He was still a big scientific mind at the time helping develop the like the military industrial scientific complex. So there's that element.

Which is a good point, by the way, just real quick, because I want to highlight that. That isn't something that's brought up enough. And even on my part, I don't bring that up enough. And I think that people, and I don't, you know, and I always say this. I always preface it because Trump is like that trigger name where you either have people like, yeah, or people like, F you, I'm never talking to you again. I don't bring up politics. I don't do politics on the show. I just like to talk about the conversation and the topic like you and I were talking about just before with the doxing.

And so the fact is he's the president and he's the one that's doing all the stuff right now when it comes to, is he going to disclose it or not? So he's the one we're talking about. But that said, one thing that isn't spoken about enough is it's not like he's just some random dude who is interested or has a passing interest in the UFO conversation or who may have been briefed on it in his first term. like his family has history with this. His family has history with some high level stuff and that isn't brought up enough. So I'm glad you brought that up

because I think it's an important point when we talk about what he might do, what might be valid or not valid, whether or not he's going to actually give disclosure on this. It's worth noting. Yeah, and I don't know for sure, but if I was a betting man, I would say his uncle was read in

at least tangentially on some stuff. Because again, he was a radar technician, he was a scientific advisor to some of these big, army air force people this before was even separated to the air force during the whole Roswell thing friends with the Navarre Bush again he the government asked him to investigate the Tesla files after Tesla died which you know what I mean if they're asking you to do that Tesla was basically an alien at the time compared

to everyone else in terms of intellect right so if they're asking this guy to make sense of this maybe they'd also ask him to make sense of if there was a crash in Roswell you know what I mean and yeah so there's that and then he just had a lot of statements now he's kind of downplayed at times too you know what I mean, but I think, especially when you compare, you know, 2017 happened under his watch, although technically I think a lot of the TTSA people were prepping for kind of a Hillary rollout, like pedestrian stuff like that. Right, right.

There was a lot of disclosure during his first term. It kind of died down during the Biden administration, believe it or not. There wasn't as much. There were still like nuggets here and there, the Gresh hearing. But they were really transparent on what the flyovers and all that. And then, yeah, Tulsi Gabbard said a lot of stuff. But then I guess this kind of could maybe go into like another thing. want to talk about is I was kind of disappointed with him on the drone wave.

I was expecting him to maybe be a little more. Forthcoming. So I don't know for sure if he'll disclose or not, but I'm hopeful. No, and that's a fair comparison, actually. And we'll move to the drones on that note. It's a good segue for it because on that kind of note that you just mentioned, you know, going back to, and I think it is important to draw that correlation, right? if he's going to actually be the president that gives that disclosure speech to come out in front of the presidential seal and say, we are not alone.

If he's going to be the one to do it, then if we're going to speculate about that, we should also look to see how he handled the drone situation. I think that's an important correlation to make because when you look back at December of 24, you know, a month before he takes office, I remember covering this. So I remember this vividly where he's having that roundtable. I believe it was at Moralago, if I remember correct. With the governors? With the governors. Right. A lot of the different governors around the country.

And they started talking about the drones. And Trump said specifically, I don't know why Biden is so secretive about it. I'm going to tell everybody what it is as soon as I get in. And the very first press conference that his press secretary, Caroline Levitt gave, was, here's what's happening on the drones. It's FAA approved. Nothing to see here. Go back to your, you know, your common day.

and it was very, very odd because it was like one of those things that felt out of character so I think it is important to make that correlation between how he handled that versus how he might handle this. Because yeah, like Biden was kind of downplaying it too, right?

And even a lot of the MAGA UFO people like Luna, bless her heart, I love Luna, but she was like calling out Biden at the time and being like, wow, they're lying, they're covering it up. And then as soon as Trump comes in and he kind of says the same thing, it was just a lot of the people were like, okay, great, FAA approved. It's like, no, I don't think it was.

Yeah, yeah, it was weird. there was in as far as I'm concerned it still has yet to be properly explained and as far as as I'm concerned it was like the biggest and most well documented UFO flap in American history because covered multiple states you know I'm very proud of the work I did during that I interviewed a bunch of witnesses you did right you you did a lot of work on this so talk about that a little bit what did you find out super activated I'm on ex-a law and you know what I would do is if somebody and because I'm on news account now right I post all the news and latest sightings and stuff like that if I saw someone have like a viral sighting I would just hit them up and be like hey let's do an interview real quick I would try and get it as

close as they could to the siding. A lot of the times I would do it on spaces, so it's kind of like less pressure for people if they're not used to being on camera and whatnot. It's kind of just like a phone call. Yeah. So I interviewed a bunch of people, probably like 20 plus different witnesses.

And some of them were like some of the very viral post that went viral and stuff like that. And yeah, I mean, after talking to all these people, well, one, they were seeing a lot of stuff, a lot of similarities. I do believe these things were like shape shifting. You know what I mean? Which is kind of controversial.

And I do believe they were like mimicking stuff. Well, you spoke to a lot of people about it. So, I mean, you were able to form a pretty educated opinion. And that's what you came out with. That's interesting. Yeah. And someone else, too, there was a lot of weird kind of narrative control stuff too, which, you know, like I told you, I was originally going to do documentaries about, like, regime changes and narrative control and, like, Cyops. And, like, how can, like, how can we flip a country without putting boots on the ground by just influencing their media like we did in places like Guatemala and stuff like that?

Right. the UFO topic. To me, it's its own little independent, like, data point of, like, oftentimes, like, authenticity. So I was interviewing people who I interviewed this one girl who had her post go really viral because she was filming them in Florida on Facebook Live. Facebook prevented her from going live for, like, a month with no explanation. And then her local news came out and interviewed her. And they basically, like, cut up the interview to make it seem like she was debunking her own sighting when that wasn't what she did. And so, like, there was a lot of cases like that. I interviewed another dude who was near picking up.

Picatinny Arsenal, the epicenter of it. Yeah. And he had filmed a, this one was interesting because it was an orb. It wasn't a shape-shifting one. It wasn't metallic. It was a light orb in the rain that was just kind of flying through the rain, cutting through it almost like butter, like just nonchalantly. You could see the trees like going like this.

And I was able to geolocate and he shared with me his location. He shared with me his ring camera footage of himself filming it. So I was able to verify the date in time was that it was like December 10th, middle of the drone wave, less than 10 miles away from Picotini, Arsenal, which was one of the epicenters of the drone wave in New Jersey. And he post about it. We did a great interview, about an hour interview on Spaces, talking about his sighting what the vibe was out there in New Jersey.

And he ended up getting visited by the FBI. Really? And then his video got taken down on every social media, and it wasn't for him. And actually, funny enough, my channel, my YouTube channel, got taken down for about five months at the tail end of the drone wave. Is that right?

Kind of related to it. But basically what had happened was this company called, viral hog. Oh yeah. Claimed his video without him even knowing. And so they took it down on every social media. So I'm almost wondering like, was that just the government kind of like using this third party system?

So it's like their hands aren't clean on it. It doesn't say the CIA took your video down. It's a shady company that does all the shady stuff is doing it. But he was a little spooked out because it happened the night before the FBI came to visit him. And then he got his informational docs and stuff, not by the loot crew or anything like that, but just online. And he just got freaked out by that.

So there was a lot of little stories like that. And again, like I said, my own channel got taken down during the drone wave on some like false claims and stuff like that, which might have been just their AI automation system. But it also might have been not because I was covering it really indefinitely. I had another guy in New York who had a similar experience where he is interviewed by the news. And they chopped up his interview to make it seem like he was debunking it when he wasn't. So it was just very weird, very weird instances like that. And there's still, you know, although the government's kind of like trying to be like, oh, it was nothing. We have statements from NORAD generals, right?

I think that these things were flying over our military bases unimpeded, which just shouldn't be happening. And there was over like 30 plus states had sightings over many military bases. Airports had to be shut down. Emergency services had to be altered. Like people literally got in car crashes and couldn't get medically evacuated because of drones. And so it's like, was that really just a government plan? And I still feel like there wasn't really a not proper explanation. I don't know.

What do you think of it all? We were in the community. You saw it all go down. I don't know if you were in a hotspotter or anything. but what do you think? Hey guys, so before we get back into the conversation, I just want to talk about something that affects all of us, and it's scary, starting something new, right?

It's hard, and it is kind of terrifying because you think about all the work that goes into it, are you going to be able to succeed, what new challenges am I going to face? It's that uncertainty. But I know how that is, because I can think back when I started UAP, I was just hoping for the best,

and it's just like that when you're starting your own business. That's why Shopify is so great, why I'm so happy to be able to talk about them. Because despite all the fears and hesitations when starting something new, it certainly helps to have a partner like Shopify on your side to help. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Death Wish Coffee, Brook Linnon, and Kylie. But what if people haven't heard about your brand? Well, Shopify helps you find your customers with easy to run email and social media campaigns.

But what if you hit that wall and you get stuck somewhere? Well, no problem because Shopify is always around to share advice with their award winning 24-7 customer support. Tackle all those important tasks in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics and more. No need to save multiple websites or try to figure out what platform is hosting the tool that you need. Everything is all in one place with Shopify, making your life easier and your business operations. so much smoother. So it's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today.

Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash UAP. Go to shopify.com slash UAP. That's Shopify.com slash UAP. Not really, yeah, not really in a hotspot because in South Florida we had a couple of things. I think actually I remember that girl you were talking about who was on Facebook live.

One of the things that sticks, with me with that. Actually, two things. Number one is it's still one of the things I get the most questions about. Friends or family or anybody who's a casual observer and knows what I do with this show. You're like, hey, what did you think about that drone stuff? Like, because we never really

got closure. Now, we can say we got closure because of what Caroline Levin said when she came out after Trump came into office at, you know, nothing to see here. But the thing that sticks with me and I'm glad you asked that because one of my sorts of

who's in military intelligence. You may have heard the name before on my show is Anthony Williams. He's spoken to me about this. And he said this, I believe, on my show last year that the thing that has scared him the most in his career was that, was when the Trump administration came out and said nothing to see here. And that stuck with me. And it still sticks with me because this is a guy that is not just, you know, his career

hasn't been to sit behind a computer. and look at videos. He was on multiple tours. He was in Afghanistan. I mean, this is a guy that is the real deal and saw the real stuff over the years in the Middle East. And for him to tell me that the thing that scared him the most in his career

was to watch how the Trump administration handled the drones when they first came in was to come out and say, nothing to see here. FAA approved. We all knew that was a lie. And we just couldn't understand why. So it was two things. that are still unsettling to me was one,

they came in and found out, oh, this is really secret tech that we can't talk about and it's our own stuff and it's super, super sensitive. So we just have to say that, you know, it's all good. Don't worry about it. Or two, it's so far advanced. It's not ours. And it's over anything that we can even deal with

and we can't do a thing about it as it's flying over our nuclear installations, as it's flying over our military installations, as it's flying over sensitive civilian areas and airports, and we can't do a damn thing about it. And it's not ours, and we don't know who belongs to, so now we just have to say there's nothing to see here. And that's what kind of was scary.

That's what kind of was surreal about. And we talked about this too, you're a fan of the history. A lot of us, I think, are. When I make documentaries about, like, you know, the 1966 wave and the, you know, levit lights and, some of these previous waves, the lights over DC,

it was interesting to actually kind of live through a flap. Because it's like, when you look at it through the historical lens, like, oh, wow, like, how come the government didn't, you know, share with the people, the truth? But when it was happening, bro, I was a little, like, uneasy as it was going on day after day. And there's all these sightings that no one can really explain what the hell is going on. And again, I don't know exactly what it was. I lean NHI.

I'm open to it being maybe Chinese reverse tech. Maybe it's ours. Maybe it was rogue AI, who knows. But like, that's something that, like, I didn't, I didn't really comprehend until we lived through a flap of like, oh, this is making me actually uncomfortable. Because it wasn't just that I was interviewing people who are like, these things are over my house and they're scaring me. Right? You know what I mean?

They're like, I don't know what these are. I interviewed a couple out in Arizona. They saw one, they saw pretty crazy sightings and like they were kind of far away. But then like two weeks later, they saw another one like over their own neighborhood. And like you could hear the fear in these people. They're like, dude, what the hell is this? Like, this isn't like fun anymore. It's like I just saw a shooting star and it's like,

woo, woo, it's like, why is there something over my neighbor's house and why is nobody doing anything about it? Like, what the hell is that? Right. You know, and so that's something that wasn't really, that I didn't really understand until living through one like that. And it's something to you, and I'll plug it. I do have two drone dogs out so far on the New Jersey Wave.

Yeah, please. Working on my third one soon. But there's just a string of kind of similar type mystery drone, which I kind of do like that name. It's kind of cute and can be like flying saucer for UFOs. But this is kind of been going on for a while, but 20, There was a similar wave in 2020 in Colorado, right? I don't know if you remember that one.

There was kind of another one, and I think 2023 in Arizona during the summer just very briefly. So there is a kind of a history of this. And then the other thing, too, I want to talk about is the whole, like, Matthew Livelsberger thing. We're in the middle of it. We have a green beret who I personally don't think killed himself. But he has this whole manifesto saying, and he blew up the truck or the truck blew up in front of Trump Tower, the Tesla truck, saying that like these are Chinese reverse engineer tech. and he's linking back to Area 51 and like antagravetics and stuff like that.

And it's like, yeah, he wrote that whole memo supposedly, right? Yeah. So it's like there's so many weird things going on during this flap of like it just, it blows my mind that we live through that and that even happened. And then it just goes away. And it goes away. And it's great. You think they it's like, we're always like, oh, if there was a flap, like they couldn't

get away with the 1966 cover up stuff today. It's like, no, no, they could. There's hundreds of videos. A bunch of people saw him. Politicians saw him. Yeah. Mayor said there was a coverup. going on and they were able to just, you know, boom onto the next thing. So it's pretty crazy.

It is. You're right. And that's interesting. I'm glad it came up. I didn't know that there were people were having those experiences where basically they were kind of being harassed and having their footage cut up by local news stations and having their, you know, a council race. I had never heard any of that. So that's kind of startling too. Something else that was underreported is these things were spraying and I'm 100% confident. Was that really happening? Because yeah, it was. I interviewed multiple people who said they saw it spring. Somebody in my Discord said one of their mom's tenant got sprayed and had to go to the hospital. There was a few Reddit accounts like that too.

So it's like I don't think they were necessarily trying to hurt people. It might have just been some like indirect kind of you just happen to be at the wrong place, wrong time. But yeah, there was I've, I collected probably like five to ten various tests. And he was people being like, no, they were spraying things to the ground, a mist. So it's like, what the hell is that? Do you think that was, just to play devil's advocate on that real quick? because I did want to get to a few other things before we were done.

But just, I mean, could that be explained by some type of, you know, contrail or maybe mass hysteria where people were thinking they're seeing something and they're thinking they're being infected? Maybe. Maybe. I mean, there definitely was a lot of people, I think, who were just seeing normal planes who were kind of doing it. But at the same time, no, I think there was too many people reporting the mist. And when you have, like, another classic example of that was the whole Coast Guard. Yeah.

Siding where these Coast Guard people sent, they saw like 13, to 30 mystery drones. And my knee, these are really highly trained heroes, honestly. They're out here defending our borders and like saving people if their boat goes under in like really crazy conditions. So they're not like idiots, right? And so

when you have like the White House came out and said, oh, they just misidentified planes, it's like, what can we even believe from the official narrative if they're going to say that some Coast Guard people and police officers and multiple like, you know, respectable members of society just saw planes in an area that they live that they've lived. Everyone knows what planes are, you know, people like those, like trained observers, if you will,

know what planes are. So it's like, what can you even believe? Like, they say that the government says there was this FAA planes and they also say they weren't spraying. So it's like, can we believe either, you know? Well, I guess to, I guess to put a bow on that one, if you will, it's, we can agree. And I think a lot of people agree. And I will say this just in my opinion.

I don't think we were told the truth about that. and the question is why and we still don't know what it was so it's it's wild but I'm you know to rehash some of that you remember how incredible some of that stuff was and we still don't really have an answer a true answer as to

what it was and why it was happening incredible this is a connection here red that I've always found fascinating some people scoff at it I find it where I get intrigued and I'm like I wonder if there is something to

this. And that is the possible connection to Bigfoot and UFOs. I know this is something that's that you've kind of died into before. Do you think there's something there? I mean, again, you know, stuff up about it recently. I find it fascinating.

I haven't done a deep, deep dive on Bigfoot, but you know, my gut instinct is yes. Because there's a lot of people who report like orbs and especially after kind of the drone of some of the shape shifting stuff where it's like, and somebody had a theory that oh that's just like the aliens

kind of when they're doing their stuff kind of almost like the movie Avatar like you know what I mean like they're to kind of blend in because there's this weird connection where a lot of people report seeing orbs and big foot and stuff like that and there's one story I have from the drone wave of witness where it's a secondhand story but they said that their friend

was chasing a man that looked the friend was a cop and apparently he called this other guy crying telling him this story that he had seen a man in the woods and he looks sketched in like almost kind of like a men in black situation but he was wearing a hoodie not like a black tie and then the man started running in the woods and then so the guy chased him and apparently this dude was like a linebacker type uh jock bro like super athletic super in shape

got out ran by him and as the guy's running he notices that the tracks go from human feet to a bike to a single bike thing to disappears and he sees an orb fly off so it almost seems like these these things are shape shifting and maybe one of the things they shape shift is to these like weird humanoid beasts. You know, that's, I know that's super out there, but why not? You know, if they could shape shift into planes and it almost kind of reminds me of the men and black

stories that you hear about where like people say that like they were, they seemed human, but like almost they didn't know how to be human. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's like maybe it was a shape shifted orb trying to be human. And maybe that same thing happens to big, but I don't know. It's fun to think about. It is. It is. Right. I honestly, it's one of those things that's,

it's kind of confounding. Like I don't know what to do with it. I feel like there could be a connection there somehow. You know, as far as the orbs too, you know, the assertion has been made that maybe some of these orbs are even biological, right? Maybe we're looking at some of these orbs in the wrong way where we're saying these are craft.

Maybe some are, but maybe some aren't. It could be, and this is one aspect of it that I find interesting, it could be that some of these things that we see in the sky might actually be, biological. I mean, does that make sense? Yeah, I'm open to it. I'm open to it. Maybe they're, you know, the Hellfire video, which I'm curious what you think about it, the one that

they showed at the last hearing. That almost seems to move like an animal more than it does like a craft. It seems like some kind of plasma being. I know people will say it's a balloon. Another interesting data point is that was like two weeks before the drone wave kicked off in New Jersey. And I wondered, is that connected? Was that their way of saying, don't try and shoot us, bro? But some of these things do seem more like like they're a living entity than

like an alien piloting a craft. I do think there's a plethora of things going on. I think kind of both are in the mix. Yeah. But as the orbs go, yeah, what do you think? Well, just to speak on the Hellfire video, I can say under good authority that that was a real video. I know a lot of people didn't like to hear that.

I was attacked online when I came on and said that. Shocker, that I get attacked online. But that's just the way it goes. But, I mean, I'm not afraid to say that now. I wasn't afraid to say it then. I have it on very good authority. that that was the real deal that it came off of a DOD network

and it was given to Burleson in a shadow way it was a dead drop is what he called it and he played it your source what did they understand it to be like a plasma orb type situation or they didn't give a specific on what type of

thing we were looking at you know whether it was a craft whether it was a plasma orb or something else but they confirmed that that was a missile that hit it that it was unaffected and that it did keep flying. I know Jeremy Corbell attested to this too that there was more footage that we didn't see.

There was about another five minutes of that video. And again, on good authority, that whatever that was kept flying and did not fall into the ocean. So, again, another one of those things that, you know, you can talk to somebody and say, oh, that was a balloon and I can tell you why it was a balloon. Yeah, but I can tell you why it wasn't a balloon

because it was studied by the intelligence community And it came off a DOD network and those people saw the extra five minutes and it wasn't a balloon that popped that fell into the ocean. That's just a fact. Yeah, and even in the video they showed us, it flies around for, I think, about a minute

and a half after two. So it's like, and also that was the first time there was ever a hellfire to any kind of projectile, like if it was a balloon, ever filmed in an active war zone, ever.

And so there's a good article on the war zone where they're not even UFO people where they just kind of highlight that. That in itself is an anomaly. So, yeah, true. People are saying, oh, that's just a balloon. Show me another video of an in anactive war zone. A hellfire missile shooting a balloon.

They can't. There isn't one. Yeah. No, it's a great point because one thing that's overlooked on that a lot is the fact that that was a side mission. The drone that fired, or the apparatus anyway, that fired that missile, it wasn't on mission to go after that object. That object was not the mission, right? There was another mission that's, you know, missile was meant for. But for whatever reason, the people controlling, you know, that airspace felt like, hey, that's worth going after.

We don't like that that's there. And they shot the missile that's meant for tanks that's meant to go through, you know, armor. And it didn't do anything to it. So one of those mysteries that we still don't know exactly what it was. But we like to think there are some people in mind who like to think. they know what it was and i don't know why that is is that a psychological thing that people just like they know they have the answers and that makes them feel better i'll be honest for me personally i don't about you but when i really like hit me that this is all real it kind of mess in my head for a little bit

it kind of made me like question everything it kind of made me a little uncomfortable with just even the nature of reality of like one the government can lie to us on such a degree and like i bought it hook line and sinker for years and then two we really don't know what these things are and i personally do think there's a negative element when you get into like the missing four-one-one-one and some of these cattle mutilations and human mutilations. And it's like, it took me a while to kind of get to a point of like, okay, like this is just a part of reality. But for like two or three months,

I was like very much like I felt uncomfortable just the day to day. So I've heard other people explain that. I don't know if you had that. But I think that's kind of a defense mechanism for people to not be in that place. Because it can mess with your psych, especially if you go from zero to 100. Right. Like you don't think about any of this stuff at all.

And then all of a sudden, we can't our best, the best military in the world, powerless to a little orb? What else could that orb do if it wanted to? You know what I mean? Right. No, it's true. Maybe it is some type of psychological mechanism.

And we just like to think we have all the answers, which we don't, by the way, even though some people like to think they do. Before we're done, Red, I did want to ask you about some of the ancient stuff because I'm interested, I know you're interested in it. And one of the things that's come up a lot now. And kudos to Jay Anderson, because I know he's really into this and he's been on Joe Rogan talking about it is some of the things that might be under the pyramid. I love this subject. I love this topic because this even goes back for me. One of the things that got me into the UFO topic years ago was the readings, the remote viewing sessions of Edgar Casey.

And one of the things that he saw, and according to his session was, you know, this supposed lost ancient technology from Atlantis under the sphinx. And so ever since then, I've been like hooked. What is it with ancient Egypt? And now we come to find out that according to these scans, there might be some type of structures underneath the pyramids. I don't get to talk about this enough. I want to bring it up with you because I find it super, super interesting.

So what do you think about all that? And you got to get Jay on. I don't know if you had it. He's super cool and approachable. Yeah, so I'm not as deep on him as this, but I will say I do think there is a lot of evidence. And not just there like in Peru and some of these other places that like,

what we're being told about humanity's history is not accurate. And I just find that very suspicious. Like, why does it matter? Why can only be stirred up with it? And here's something I can give you. A lot of the mechanisms of the UFO coverup. and the kind of cover up of that element are one and one the same.

For example, I get specific with you. 1969, 1970, Carl Sagan, right at the close of Blue Book, right at the close of the Conducton Committee, they did the American Association for the Advancement of Science is the oldest civilian scientific organization in America. And a lot of scientific developments have come through there. And a lot of, like, they have an annual conference, right? And there's a lot of stuff going on like that.

It's like one of the more formal mechanisms of science. In the late 60s and 70s, they had a like a referendum on UFOs where they determined and there was Air Force influence at the time. They're like this is pseudoscience. This is not a real scientific endeavor. We're not going to have universities promoted. We're not going to treat it as a real thing. One or two years later, they had a similar referendum on this kind of ancient cycles of civilization. There's a man named Emmanuel,

Velikovsky who kind of was like of the grand an older type of like the Graham Hancock type view of history and Carl Sagan was also part of that and part of basically having the American scientific community be like there's nothing to this whole kind of notion of like cataclysms or you know we know what our history is and I just don't think we do and I think there's a lot of effort put in place with like what's like I guys name Zawas or whatever out in Egypt and stuff like that there's a lot of effort in place to obstruct and obfuscate our true origins. And I just find that, again, like I said, the narrative control to me, oftentimes is one of the biggest little indicators of stuff.

And there definitely is like weird narrative control around the ancient civilization stuff. So I think it's super fascinating. I love what Jay's doing. Hopefully one day I get to go out to Egypt with them. That'd be cool. Same. My hat in front of the pyramid. Yeah.

What do you think about it all? I love the idea that there might be something there, you know, that it maybe goes back to some type of ancient knowledge that allowed them to build these structures underneath the pyramid and also super frustrating because it's like, well, why don't we know about it? If they knew about it three or four thousand years ago, whatever it may be, you know, were these power plants? What was this? I mean, I love it.

I'm with you. I think we should all go out to Egypt and investigate this. I know Patrick Kvett was talking about it. So let's just all get together in a big group. That'll be fun. We got there and do it. I love it. Before we go here, Red, I wanted to ask you about something that recently came out.

And it wasn't like widely reported. It was just like a Reddit thing. And some people noticed it. But I thought it was really compelling. This idea that there might be a giant UFO buried under the ice of Greenland. Now, of course, Greenland's in the news a lot, right? Because of the Trump administration, what they're trying to do and acquire land there. And this kind of goes back to what Ross Coldheart had spoken about that.

People still mention where he gave out this information that he said he was told that there's this giant UFO, buried somewhere and there was an installation built around it because it was too big to move. Now there's some type of speculation because of this Reddit post that was deleted, by the way, that's people took screenshots of and that's why we know about it, that says and gave detail and coordinates about like, here's this giant UFO. It's buried under the ice of Greenland. What do you make of this? Is there anything to do it?

It's definitely fun. I don't know. My gut tells me that there's something more to why Trump wants Greenland. And maybe he just have to go into esoteric things, but I don't know. I mean, it would be a perfect place for it. Apparently, there's a lot of UFO sightings around there, too. But yeah, I don't know. Who knows?

Maybe Ross was just told something, like, BS to, like, some intelligence community, like, mumbo-jum. I think he should just come out and say it. I don't think he's putting anyone's life in. Just say it, right? If you got it wrong, you got it wrong, and then we know that it was like you were played with. But, yeah, I don't know, man. I don't know enough one way or the other.

It's definitely fun. And the post definitely did go viral. It did. It's just one of those, like, I think you're right, it's like one of those fun things to consider, like, could that really be true? Like, could there really be something under there? Maybe it has to do with, like, the movie Greenland where, you know,

they have these secret bases, which I love that movie. Or they say, they say Greenland was one of the places that, like, survives the pole shift in that movie, right? So maybe that's something to do with that. I just love drawing theories out there. It's just fun to throw stuff against the wall. We're all little conspiracy theories. You know, we love all this stuff.

Yeah. It's so much fun. last very last thing read in i gotta ask it i'd be i'd be crazy if i didn't ask it the work that you and tupacabra do with ai videos is magnificent i mean it's like if there's one thing i won't be um imbiased about it's giving you guys kudos about the work you guys do these the AI videos that you guys put together is so great and saw up anime too yes their friend yeah i mean you guys it's it's so much fun to watch and you do some of the

things with like all the ufo characters and figures and the uf you So I'm just going to put it out there. Can I be in your next video? Yes, I will do it. Yes, the next one I do I will and it's so fun. I feel so blessed as like an artist, right? And it's not that hard to learn to. I'd be more than happy to teach you any of the stuff. It makes meaming so much fun and stuff like that makes meeming so much fun and stuff like that makes me to like live with us and yeah Tupa makes really great stuff Saab anime makes great stuff but yeah I do another one of those kind of like big montage ones and I'll think of one I for sure I'll put you in I love it yes I love it

I made it I'm in hell yeah dude well red Red Panda Koala thanks so much you're doing this man you know I know again the big social media presence that's that you have and I know you've gone through a lot with everything that we spoke about the start of the episode but I'm also glad that we got to talk about the fun stuff too I really enjoy the conversation

I'm pretty fun right some people trying to Pameas was like menace or like I'm I hate UFOs or I hate people. It's like no I think I'm just pretty normal fun guy who just you know kind of saw some of the ugly stuff and was just like I'll speak out about it openly. Why do you? Can I ask that real quick? Actually I'm sorry to put

this further. But why do you think that is? Because I did and I want to put this out there. I had tweeted out like a few days before you and I spoke. I'm like I'm going to interview Red Panda Coala excited to have the conversation. And there were some people who were like oh cool, can't wait to hear it. And there were some people like never listening to you again, I can't believe you're going to have him on. Why do people react? Why do you think people have that reaction? I think part of it is artificial.

It kind of goes back to the Lou stuff where, you know, to a lot of people for better or worse, Lou has kind of become a Messiah figure, you know? And it's like people have experiences, they have UFO experiences, and then there's this dude who's kind of like helping validate that for the whole world. So if they view me as just attacking him, which again,

like I said, I don't think I am, they kind of almost viewed as me attacking disclosure, which I also don't think I am. So that's kind of where I think some of that energy comes from. But yeah, I don't think it's accurate. And I like, like I said, I think I'm pretty chill, dude, pretty fun, you know. I'm sure if we're ever at a conference together, we'd have a beer together and have a great time. Yeah, I'm down, man. I'm always down for a beer. So, well, thanks again for coming on. And I look forward to the video. And so this was a lot of fun. Yeah. And then another one I have coming up too, which will maybe next time, when I drop it,

maybe you'll have me back. I got my Steven Spielberg Closing Counties documentary. I'm working on. It's like an hour and a half. Oh, very cool. It's going to be epic. It goes through its whole early life and UFO stuff with the movie coming out, it'll be great. But yeah, we'll save that for another day. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you, Stephen. Absolutely. Red Panne Cuallo. Thanks for coming on here at UAP. And we'll talk again soon. Appreciate the time. Talk again, see you, bro. Peace. Thanks. Picture the two of you sitting side by side, a Mai Tai in your hands and the sounds of Hawaii around you. You almost forget you're on a plane. And that's the point. Because when you fly with

Hawaiian Airlines. It's hard to tell where your flight ends and vacation begins. Hawaii starts here. Well, thanks again to Red Panned and Coala for doing that. I really did enjoy the conversation. And that's why I'm always a big proponent of talking to people because it is true. I got a lot of flack on Twitter for like, why are you talking to this guy? I can't believe you're going to interview him. And that's happened before with different people that have brought on. But I've always been a big proponent of let's just talk. Like I want to learn about you. I want to learn about what's going on. what you're experiencing. Actually, funny enough, the same thing happened when I was telling people that I was going

to interview Lou Elizondo last year. There was half of it was, oh, awesome, can't wait to hear it. And the other half was, I can't believe you're talking to that guy. So, like, you know, you can't win one way or the other. That's my thing, though. Whether you like it or not, and anybody who's on social media who gets something for this, I want to talk to people so I can bring the conversations to you and so I can learn for myself what's happening.

And I can, along with you, make an educated and. informed decision about, well, maybe I shouldn't be talking to this person or, okay, now I learn more and I understand what's happening. And I did like talking to that person. And hopefully you get something out of that as well. And that's the whole point here. But outside of that, I did want to touch on the Greenland thing real quick, too, just at the risk of coming across as not informed.

I understand why, you know, President Trump wants to acquire Greenland. If you're talking about the strategic, the tactical side of things, yes, totally understand it. And I know Red does as well, you know, when it comes to. to the proximity towards Russia and defense systems and everything like that, you know, having defense systems there. I get it. I understand the, and of course the minerals and the, you know, the natural resources.

I understand the tactical, the practical side of everything. So I didn't want to come across as like, oh, I have no idea what's happening. I do. But we wanted to talk about the other side, you know, what else might be going on that they're not telling us. And that's the fun stuff that we like to talk about. So I just wanted to put out, yes, I do understand the practical side as well. And you heard me talk about Mark Christopher Lee when we spoke about, you know, his report that Trump is going to disclose in July, July 8th, to be exact, was the date that he reported.

I am talking to Mark behind the scenes, so I do plan on bringing him on here. So hopefully we can have that discussion and get the questions answered right here on UAP. So hope to have him on very soon as well. Hopefully in the next episode. So stay tuned for that. But that's it for now. I won't extend it anymore. Thanks for sticking around here on this extended edition of UAP.

really glad I got to do that with Red. I really did enjoy the whole conversation. I hope you did too. And I can't wait to be in one of his AI videos with the rest of the casting crew of Uphology. I love those videos they put out are really good if you've never seen them. Follow along on Twitter to see what they're doing there

if you haven't seen some of the stuff that they do. And follow along on Twitter with me at UA Podcast 850 on social media across the board there at UA Podcast on YouTube. I'll have this whole interview up there right now. as well. I put the entire interview with myself and Patrick. That entire video is on YouTube. If you want to check out kind of like behind the scenes, unedited version, straight through interview with myself and Patrick. That entire thing is on YouTube. If you want to check that out at UA Podcast. So follow along on social and, of course, the show, wherever you get your podcast, download, subscribe. Spread the word.

If you have friends or family who you think might like the show, let them know that this is going on and that I've been doing it for a while. And maybe that's all like it. So feel free to spread the word as well. Always appreciate that. Find it wherever you get your podcast literally on any of the big platforms. Just search UAP and it should come up right there. And rated five stars. I always appreciate that as well. If you don't mind, if you think it's worthy, I'm not asking you if you hate it, then by all means, you know, you don't think it deserves it. But if you think I'm worthy of five stars and what I do here, and you haven't rated it on the podcast platforms, and I appreciate that too. But on that note, that will do it for now. You can't wait to come back again with some new episodes. And

talk about all the things going on because there really is a lot. It's almost hard to keep up with some of the things happening, but I'm going to do my best coming up here soon on UAP. So thank you again for everything, for all your support, for continuing to come back here for the show, because it does mean the world to me, so thank you so much. So until next time, it is Stephen Dean here saying, be well. Thank you.

And we'll talk again soon right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast.