UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 187 The Unbelievable Story of Carl Higdon

Episode Date: February 17, 2026

Bullets turned inside out? An alien named Ausso One? These are just a couple of the unbelievable claims surrounding the 1974 abduction case of a Wyoming man named Carl Higdon. Stephen Diener sits down with the author who quite literally wrote the book on this case to get all of the details. And that's just the beginning. This stuff is truly incredible...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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and it's a story of a man named Carl Higden. Now, this is a story you might be familiar with, and admittedly, and I even say this to start during the interview, admittedly, I wasn't familiar with this case. I don't know why. Just one of those things I never came across. So if you are familiar with it, great. You're about to hear maybe even more details than you've ever heard before.

If you're not familiar with it, well, get ready, because this goes down to me as one of the most unreal cases I've ever heard about a man named Carl Higden. This goes back to 1974 in Wyoming. And just details that I've never really heard in any other stories. So I'm not going to give too much backstory here to start. I'm going to kind of go right into the interview because I have a lot of post-interview thoughts, a lot of notes to come back with post-interview.

So what you're going to hear right now is myself and the author of the book called Taken, the complete Carl Higden story. Her name is Laura Ranger. She literally wrote the book on the Carl Higden story. I wanted to bring her on to get kind of the full context, the details behind this story. And then after the interview, I'll kind of expound on some of the things that we spoke about and highlight some of the things that really stood out to me and add more context to it. Maybe those are some of the things that you'll be thinking about as well, some of the things that I bring up after the conversation is over.

So that's where the meat of my thoughts will be is after the interview. So stick around for that. Just two quick notes before I get into it. One, you'll hear the name Marjorie brought up. It might get lost in translation. Marjorie is Carl Higden's wife. So if you hear the name Marjorie, that's Carl's wife. And number two, you'll also hear us mention the phrase, light mile.

Now, I want you to keep that in mind because it was either a misinterpretation or Laura misspoke when she said Light Mile and she met Light Year. Or this was something that maybe could break this whole thing wide open and put a whole thing. whole new spin on it all together. We're going to explore that after the interview. So take a listen, myself, and Laura Ranger, talking about the incredible story of Carl Higden, right here on UAP. Enjoy. Well, welcome in here to Laura Ranger.

He's written a book here that I am very excited to talk about, taking the complete Carl Higden story. Laura, thanks for coming out here to UAP to discuss this in this case and a couple of other things. I appreciate you coming on. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah, and this is something actually, admittedly, Laura, that's, you know, like I said earlier, I'm actually really excited to talk about. I'm usually excited anyway to talk about all these different subjects because I just find it all so fascinating and compelling to ask the questions, what the heck is going on.

But this one in particular, admittedly, it may be shamefully so. I don't know a lot about the Carl Higden story. And this seems like one of the most incredible stories I've ever heard of. So I'm looking forward to getting into it with you here today. Sure. Well, it did happen several decades ago. Yeah, that's all right. So we'll go into it.

Now, first off, just to kind of get your background, Laura, how did you get into this as an author? How did you get into this subject? And why did you take it up? And why did you take up the Carl Higden story to begin with? Now, I am a novelist, but I write fiction. I've never written nonfiction before. However, I was introduced to the Higgins through a mutual friend. She had had them on her show a couple of times.

And every time I heard the story, I was just drawn to it. It is different. So Patricia connected us. Unfortunately, it was after Carl had passed. So much of what I gathered was either from my research, from the interviews that Carl had done and speaking with his widow. Gotcha. Okay. So still first, well, you know, firsthand information through through his widow. She was there. She understands what happens. She learned everything from him. Was he married

during the abduction scenario or did he relate the story afterward? They were married for 17 years at the point that he was abducted. They ended up married 64 years before he passed in January of 22. Wow. How about that? Okay. Let's get into the meat of it then because I don't want to get too far ahead and then have to backtrack. Who is Carl Higden? What happened? And we'll go from there. Carl Higden was what you would call a man's man.

He was really down to earth, hands on. He was a foreman for an oil rig. Actually, he went into the army at. the age of 15, his mother made a fake birth certificate. Wow. But he went into the Army. When he was discharged, he had gotten his degree in mechanics. So the day of the abduction, in the, I don't know if you know much about oil rigging,

but in the day this happened, you had to have an entire team or nobody worked. Okay. Because every hand was important. It's a very dangerous business. So this day was a Friday. He went around to collect up his team and found out the two of them had the flu. That meant no work. Carl worked six days a week and was on call 24-7.

But this particular day, since they couldn't go out to the, field, he decided to go hunting, which was a favorite pastime. And he had just gotten a new rifle. So he wanted to go try this out. He had his license for not only hunting elk, but bull elk. So he called Marjorie, who was at work, and he said, I'm going out hunting. I'm going about 50 miles south to an area he had not been before. When he started on his way, he was encountered and broken down truck. Well, it was just like Carl to stop and try to help. When he'd gotten the vehicle started and he and the two men were drinking coffee, which it was another past time of Carl, conversation coffee. He said he was going hunting and where he

was going, and they said, oh, no, go over this other area. It's better hunting out. And so when he drove over there, he wasn't familiar with the area and he was always safe. So he parked on the top of a hill. And there, one of the forest rangers came along. And he was, again, copying conversation. They were talking and he asked him what he was doing there and he said he was going in to hunt some elk. And he said, well, why are you parked up here so high? He was in a company truck, which was only a two-wheel drive, which ends up being very important.

And he said, since I'm not familiar with the area, I don't want to get in there and get stuck, so I'm going to go in by foot. Okay. So Carl left, went on in, and came to a clearing, and across the clearing, he saw five elk, one of which was a bull elk. He looks across, aims his rifle, fires. Now, understand, the naked eye cannot watch a bullet and leave the barrel. He did. He said everything slowed to slow motion. There was no sound.

Of course, in the woods, in the forest, there should have been sounds of bird and nature, there was nothing. He said it was void of any sound, any movement, and he watched the bullet leave his barrel. It traveled about 50 or 60 feet. He heard a splat, like it hit something, but he didn't see anything, and it dropped to the ground. It didn't reach the elk, and the elk didn't jump like an animal would from the sound of a bullet of a gun being fired he walked up to where the bullet had dropped into the snow picked up the bullet it was turned inside out and no lead it made no sense to him but he put it in his canteen and it was about this point that he heard someone behind him.

Well, as an experienced rifleman, he lowered his gun, looked up over his shoulder, and there was a being hovering over the ground, just above it, but hovering. And this is the being that was later, Carl described, and all the way down covering his feet, He was in a black like a body suit. He had similar features to humans, but different.

He had six teeth that were seen. They were square, three on the top, three on the bottom. He was jaundice looking. He was yellow looking. And he was wearing the black because he said the son, our son, hurt his skin. So this was a protection. Hey guys, so before we get back into the conversation, I just want to talk about something that affects all of us.

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Wow. So let me just jump back to a couple things real quick. So first off, he's, I mean, it sounds like, you know, assault of the earth type of guy, not someone who is into this type of thing, maybe even knew too much about it. and it was just an unsuspecting, you know, I hate to use the word victim, but an unsuspecting character in all this, right? Correct. And so he's going out, he's going to go hunting, you know, just circumstance, right?

No one can work because this guys are sick. Did he ever feel like, if I can just jump back to this real quick, and maybe this is an outlandish thought, but I can't help but to think it, did he ever feel like that he was being set up to go to that spot because he stops and talks to the guy at the truck? he's going to go to a different area, but the guy at the truck tells him to go to this area. Did he ever feel like there was a correlation there or was that just happenstance? If you asked Carl, he would say no.

He just thought it was coincidence. But Marjorie thinks a little differently. She feels like not only were these two men part of this setup, but she felt like there were more. people involved, such as the authorities, the police, because some of the things that she asked questions about, their common statement to her was, it was a weird night, leave it alone. Wow. But when she would push, they would push back.

So she finally just stopped asking questions or pushing the issue. So crazy. So she felt that there actually was some type of connection there. Do we think, Laura, that, or what did you get the impression of that she felt it was other beings that were there disguised or were these other people that wanted this to happen? Some type of government agents or somebody like that that wanted this to happen to Carl. One of the things that I found in my research with Carl personally, there was a lot of compelling. so people would be compelled to do the bidding of the aliens. And the same thing happened to Carl because after the abduction,

he had a connection with this man that he saw. He had a connection with him mentally the rest of his life. First, though, just to jump back to what you were saying, he sees this being behind him. The bullet stops after going about 50 feet. He sees it slow down, almost like, you know, Superman. where the bullet slows down and then he finds it inside out without the lead. So we can only assume that this hit, and maybe I'm, again, way off base here,

but we can only assume that maybe this hit some type of force field or craft that was cloaked. Does that make sense? That's exactly what we believe happened. We believe it hit the spacecraft. And it was not what we commonly think of as an alien. and spaceship. It wasn't domed or silver or any of that. It was transparent. Cube looking five feet by five feet by seven feet. And he could see the elk through this cube. Now, the being said to him, and it was in English. He spoke to him. He said,

are you hungry? And Carl said a little. And he floated this packet of pills over to Carl. Now, Carl was not one that would even take an aspirin if he had a headache. He was hard-pressed to even do whatever a doctor would tell him. He was that kind of man. He felt compelled to just do what he was told. So he took one of these pills.

and this being told him it was a four-day pill. So this one pill would nourish him for four days. Then asked him if he wanted to go with him. And Carl said, sure, again. She's wild. It felt compelled. And he said that he was almost instantly transported into spacecraft. Not only Carl, but this.

being his name is Azo One. So we got a name too. Azo one. Okay. Two other beings and the five elk, including that one bull elk, all in this cube. Wow. So that's what he got in there was the animals and other being and the original being who identified himself as Azo One. I'd never heard maybe other than one or two other stories where the being actually gives

a name. and on on that note actually I'm so it's so compelling to get into all these details but I also have to ask when you say they're communicating and he's communicating in English with the being Azo 1

are we talking telepathic are we talking verbal speech back and forth like you and I? verbal speech okay and we're talking about this jaundiced skin the six teeth three on top three on the bottom did he did he give any other indication

as far as physical features Laura like small or the triangle face or the you know the big eyes he had he had fairly normal human features he had no chin um went straight into his neck uh his he had straw like hair that was sticking up and then he had two antennae that were sticking out of the top of his head he didn't have hands he on his right he had a cone it was a cone shape that came out of his the end of his jump suit he would point this and things would happen so when he pointed this when they're in the craft and they started going up Carl said that he pointed this cone at the truck remember two-wheel drive truck sitting on the top of the hill and as they started

started lifting off into the air. Aza 1 pointed his cone appendage at the truck, and the truck moved. It was later found in an area that a two-wheel drive truck could never have gotten to. And they ended up four-wheel drive trucks, several of them, having to pull it out, and they kept getting stuck. When Carl was put in the cube, he was put into a... He likened it to a sports car seat and belts and straps were came around him. A helmet was put on his head with wires and he said he looked up in the corner of the cube.

There was a mirror and that mirror he could see the elk behind him in a cage. To his left were the three aliens. and then there was the levers and things like that in the front of it that they did not touch but he watched the levers move that navigated this craft they told him they went 163,000 light miles, not light ears, light miles, which he had never heard of before. I haven't heard of it then or since. when they got to their planet, they were explaining that they can't sustain life well. So they come to our planet to gather deer, elk, livestock, fish. Their water is yellow and they can't sustain life.

They gather like the elk. They take them back and they, try to reproduce to try and get some sort of life on their planet that they can use for food. Yeah. But some of what they take, they create these pills from. So the fish and the wildlife that they take. And when they landed, Carl, they landed at this tower. And he said it looked like an upside down space needle.

but there were five people at the base of humans at the base of this tower which was off from them and he said that the older gentleman that was there there were teenagers and such but this man he recognized for whatever reason and later figured out that he had seen him he had been abducted previously apparently and was on a show talking about. about his abduction. And Carl remembered seeing him. Oh, that's interesting. Let me, let me jump in there real quick because that's a fascinating detail, actually. But just to kind of go back a little bit, so he's in this cube. And you mentioned it, and I think it's worth noting that this five by five, five by seven cube, it sounds small. I mean, those are small measurements. And obviously we're

talking about feet, right? Or feet or meters. Yes, feet. And so that's something that you would be hard-pressed to have two beings, a man, and five elk here inside. So the reason why I bring that up, Laura, is because are we talking about it? And this is something that, again, I find really interesting where Bob Lazar has spoken about this and others, where inside of a craft, it's bigger than it looks outside. Like, you see a smaller craft, and then you walk inside, and all of a sudden, it's like it's physically impossible, but it's bigger inside. So we talk about that type of craft here with Carl? Yes, we most certainly are. Interesting. Okay. So he experienced that. Because there's four basically four adults and five elk. One is a bull elk and they're huge. They're all in this

little bitty cube. Right, right. Yeah. That struck me when you said that. I'm like, well, the math isn't working out here. So this must be one of those cases where it's bigger inside. And, and again, we've heard that before, so that's really interesting detail that Carl tells. And see, I find these little signs noteworthy because you're talking about a guy again that, you know, this is a guy that didn't have a Bob Lazar story to reference. You know, Bob Lazar was 15 years later. So to hear that detail and it matches things we found out decades later is compelling to me. You know, think about it.

When he saw it as the cube, he said he could see the first. forest in the elk through this cube, but he didn't see what he saw when he was inside the cube. So once he was inside the cube, now he's seeing the panel, he's seeing the cage, he's seeing the mirror, all of that. He didn't see any of that when he was on the outside. And when he's in the cube and they started lifting off, he could see through the floor. He could see the the earth as they rose up. He said it looked like a big round blue ball. Amazing. Did they relate to him at all where they went?

Like what star system, what this planet was? No, they just told him they went 163,000 light miles. And these beings, again, so these are like human-like beings. They don't really match descriptions we've heard it before about grays or Nordics or reptilians. These are kind of different beings that are coming. from essentially a starting planet. And the craft, yeah. I've never heard of a craft like that.

Have you? A transparent cube only a couple of times. And normally it's, but it's recent. These are things within the past reports within the past 10 years of transparent cubes. Normally there's like something inside, like some type of circle is inside this transparent cube. But it's a rare occurrence. So they hear about one from 1974.

That's actually kind of new. You normally hear about like an egg shape or a saucer shape or a triangle especially. Right. But this is pretty wild. And also just to point out, too, you know, you had mentioned in the beginning that you were a fiction writer to start and then you come across this story. So if anybody's, you know, questioning the story, by all means, I always, you know, Laura, I always say here on UAP, it's always up to you. I'm not saying believe this or else. It's always up to you.

I want to give you the details. But if someone's saying, well, she's a fiction writer, so she's making this all up, bear in mind. And I just want to point this out, bear in mind, you came across this story. This is a real story that's documented. It's not like you drew this up in a manuscript. So I just want to point that out there. That's right. And I had heard Carl tell his story twice.

The recordings of Carl out there, him actually speaking, saying, telling what took place, I really don't understand why so many people took the details of his story. and skewed them or twisted them or changed them. So I really, to me, it was important that I tell the story properly. He became pretty big celebrity in, of all places, Japan, where there is a museum, and they have Carl's voice recorded telling his story in this museum. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S.

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So, okay, so we'll jump back to it then. He lands on this unknown planet. There's humans at the base of this upside down space needle. So now what? He did not interact with the people. Azelwan took him, and as Carl explains it, he floated him inside this tower. He said inside looked like regular hallways and that sort of thing. They floated down the hallway into an elevator, up the elevator.

And he took him into a room that just stark, just white walls, floor. He was put on a platform and he said a device, big square device came out of the wall up to his body. He was scanned. The device went back into the wall and Carl kept complaining that the lights were too bright. They heard his eyes. His eyes were watering profusely and they were burning. And Azo I said, that's okay, because we'll take you back. He told him if they felt they could use him and they kept him, his eyes would adjust.

But it wasn't an issue. They were just taking him back. What Carl believes the reason is that they couldn't use him. He had at that point had seven children. So he had had a vasectomy. Gotcha. Yeah. So Carl believes that's why he was returned.

Azo one alone brought him back. His two cohorts were not with them at that point. He brought him back. And on the return trip, Azo one was explaining to Carl that on his planet, he's considered like Carl, the hunter, the gatherer, the fisherman. Wow. So he's the one who is responsible to come here and locate and gather the whatever they're going to take back. Yeah.

He also was fascinated. Now, remember, this gun is brand new to Carl. Azo one was fascinated by this because to them, this is antiquated. So he had wanted, he told Carl he really wanted to keep the gun, but he wasn't allowed, so he was sending Carl back with the gun. He wanted a souvenir. Yeah. But when he dropped Carl off, a lot of times some of the reports that I had read about alien abductions, the people that were returned, a lot of times they're just dropped out of the spacecrafts and they're injured. That was not the case.

Asa one lowered Carl to the ground. And when Carl took a couple steps, he slipped on a rock, went down, hit his shoulder, and injured it. Wasn't until he, under hypnosis, that he remembered that he wasn't just dropped out. He tripped and fell. Wow. So this is something. It's incredible. So he's up there.

Just two questions on the planet, I suppose. Did he find the atmosphere livable, breathable? Absolutely. The only thing that bothered Carl was the lights. They were so bright to him. And this tower had rotating flashing lights. Carl kept trying to put his hands over his eyes to protect his eyes because it was so painful. Wow.

So these lights is, so it was the, I guess, you could say mechanical lights, if you will. We're not talking about lights on their, what would be, I guess, considered their sun. These were lights that were in the room. Right. They were right. Like we would think lights, but apparently whatever they were made up of really bothered Carl's eyes. And again, I'm just so fascinated by these beings because they never heard anything like it.

Like, you know, the jaundiced skin, the sixth teeth, more human looking, no real characteristics that would say that they're greys, that they're Nordics, that they're plating. that they're, you know, mantoids or insectoids. This is something totally different. Did you ever find anything out more about these beings specifically, Laura? No, I've never heard. I had never heard about a space cube either. So what you were telling me was news to me.

But then, of course, I was really focused and centered on Carl and the specifics around him. the one thing that just made me say there's something to this was the fact that many of the people in the town, their quote was, if it was anyone else, we wouldn't believe it. But it was Carl Higden, so we did. Interesting. That's interesting. Again, so it just speaks to his personality and his reputation. And so I got to ask just before we finish up here, what's the after effect? So he's back. He slips. He hurts his shoulder. So now what happens after this abduction?

So when he leaves and he's walking away, he's heading back toward his truck, but he passed it up. It's not where he left it. Right. So he passed it up, but it's getting later and he's getting cold. And he remembers, oh, there's that truck back there. Let me at least get some shelter. So he went back to the truck. At this point, too, he was dead. days, confused, disoriented. There was a CB, you know, back in the day of CB's, and there was someone speaking on the CB. So he takes the CB, he's talking to them, he can't remember his name, doesn't know who the owner of the truck is, they tell him, look in the glove box, maybe you'll find something.

So he's digging through there, trying to find any kind of information. They realized that he's in this company truck. He's got the people on the other end of the CB are the owners of the company. The company was located two hours north of where he, of Rawlins. So they get called Marjorie. Marjorie says, I haven't heard from him, got home, making dinner, but I'm starting to get worried because he's not home. And so they put together a search party, including a sheriff's deputy.

And they all go out. Now, like I said before, they're all in four-wheel drives. Marjorie wants to go. And she says, well, I'll get my friends. They have a two-wheel drive truck, too, but I'll get them. We'll go. And they said, don't come in. This terrain is, it's not passable without a four-wheel drive.

So she waits outside for them. When they got Carl and brought him down, They decided he really needed to go to the ER. He needed to be checked over. When they got down to where Marjorie was, he didn't recognize her. And when she went to step near him to put her code around him, he backed up and said, don't touch me. A marriage of 17 years.

Yeah. And so they ended up taking him to the hospital, and he kept complaining the lights hurt. his eyes so they'd turn out the light, they'd put compresses on his eyes and anything to sue them. They did all kinds of tests and found out he hadn't broken his shoulder or anything like that. It was bruised. But they did find the doctor said his blood was unnaturally and unusually rich. He also had had tuberculosis when he was young and had scarring on his blood. lungs, which was now gone.

Oh. So something happened to some type of healing properties, somehow the pills or the lights, maybe from the scan. This real quick on actually time, when it comes to time, Laura, he has these four-day pills. Are we then to assume that the journey took four days back and forth, or was this like hours? No, it's a matter of hours. It was. Okay.

Did he have missing time when he came back? Yes. Okay. So he felt like, you know. He didn't remember. Actually, he didn't remember any of it. And he, at the hospital, Marjorie was with him every chance she could get. And he kept saying, referring to her as the pretty woman in the corner.

She said, see, Carl didn't lose his mind. But on the third day, their oldest daughter walked into the room, and he said immediately everything came back. He remembered everything. He remembered Marjorie. He remembered Rose. He remembered being taken. He remembered the elk. And he kept saying, they took my elk.

They took my elk. But all of that came back. There were little details that I don't know if you've heard of. Dr. Leo Sprinkle, but he did a lot of hypnosis, alien abduction questions and that sort of thing. And he could usually figure out if they were telling the truth or if it was fabricated. And he always stood by that Carl was telling the truth. But in his hypnosis sessions, he was able to glean a lot of the details that were escaping Carl initially. Gotcha.

Okay. So a lot of those details we talked about came. from the hypnotic regression sessions with Dr. Leo Sprinkle. Correct. Okay. But I guess just to kind of finish it up, Laura, you know, when we talk about the hypnotic regression with Dr. Leo Sprinkle, who's an incredible story in his own right, you know, the things that he did.

He was, you know, kind of ahead of his time, really, when he came to this field. And so now, you know, he goes through the regressions. He gets all these details. He understands what's going on. Did he ever have any other encounters after this, or was this a one and done? He did, but with Azo 1, and it was telepathically. He'd be sleeping, be awakened and told to go to a particular location. So he'd wake Marjorie up.

They'd get in the truck, and they would drive to wherever he was instructed. He never saw him again and wasn't really sure why he'd be taken, but he had seen some things, like he had seen. a spacecraft at one time and he said it looked like an upside down ice cream cone. So it wasn't even similar to what he had seen before. He said at one point he relayed to Azo 1 that they needed rain and it rained and after a few days he was like, okay enough and it stopped. So apparently they were able to manipulate our atmosphere as well. Incredible. And so he ended up having this telepathic connection with Oslo-1, even though he never, you know, essentially came down to Earth, as it were, to have any more physical interaction. Did that last to his final days or was this something that went away? It did. It did. It did. And Carl believes that the reason he had this encounter and this experience was not for him. It was for other people. So Carl made that his mission to just list.

listen. He had many, many phone calls over all these years where people would call and they'd usually start out tell him he was crazy and, you know, did he drink and he did not, that sort of thing. And the longer Carl would listen and engage them, it usually came out that they had had a similar experience. And of course, they felt like they were crazy. So they're really. projecting this off onto Carl. So he felt like if he did nothing more than to hear people and get the word out, just in case it ever happened to anybody else. Maybe helping an awakening of some sorts, I suppose. Correct. Did he have any other physical effects, Laura, that lingered, you know, aside from the three-day amnesia that he experienced?

Did he have anything that, you know, lingered from any type of radiation exposure or sicknesses or anything like that? No, he was healthier when he came back than when he left. One of the things that he was afraid to drive for whatever reason. So for several years, he'd either make Marjorie drive or he would walk. He walked everywhere. Eventually, he went back to where he was comfortable driving and that sort of thing. But that was really about the only effect.

And the interesting thing was, while he would do these noses sessions with Dr. Sprinkle, Dr. Sprinkle had given him hypnotic suggestions because anytime he'd talk about his shoulder, the pain would return. So he would give him a hypnotic suggestion to suppress the pain. The other was if he would talk about the lights, his eyes would immediately This was years later as well. His eyes would start watering profusely and burn and hurt. So Dr. Sprinkle had given him some hypnotic suggestions to try and ease that pain.

But that carried on throughout his life. Carl, when he got back, Marjorie gave him pen and paper and asked him to draw or write anything he could remember. And he drew a rude, crude image of Azo I. Which once he explained to an art professor, they were able to get it what he looked like down. But Carl's drawing, his rendering was very similar. But on this paper, he had the word Enders written. And Marjorie didn't know what Enders was, but she took it to the police and they took it to the back.

They looked at it and whatever, gave it back to her. And they said, well, what does that mean? And they said, it was a strange night. Just leave it alone. And she said, well, why would he write Enders? And they said they were hunting in the same area. Now, what Enders are, nobody knows because the police wouldn't talk. but they told her leave it alone.

So was that what these beings were? Yeah, right. Wow. In this book, I've added a lot of pictures. So they can see for themselves the pictures that Marjorie took, pictures Marjorie had taken, such as the bullet. The bullet inside out is in this book. Wow. Carl and Marjorie and that sort of thing.

Well, Laura Ranger, thank you so much for doing this. How can people find you? How can they find your work and make sure that they take a look at this and some of your other work? Well, I do own the publishing company Foundations Books, and that's at Foundationsbooks.net. My email is laura.orgia at foundationsbooks.net. And of course, any of the retailers. Right. You know to Amazon, they can go and search everything out.

Exactly. Well, just search Laura Ranger and be sure to search for taking the complete Carl Higden story. Laura Ranger, thanks so much for coming on here to UAP. Thank you for having me. And that will do it there for myself and Laura Ranger. So thank you again to Laura for doing that. If you want to check out the book, all the proceeds go to the Higden family and to Marjorie Higden. So if you want to check that out, I think that's a pretty cool thing that she's doing there.

Now, when we look at this story as a whole, okay? Let's kind of dig into this here before we head out. There were so many things that stood out to me. Number one, I want to start here. The nature aspect of this. There was something that jumped off the page when Laura said that there were no sounds when Carl shot his shot to try to take out the elk. Now, of course, we all have to go with the assumption here as I speak about this that this is something that actually happened, right?

We don't know. All we can do is take Carl at his word. And, of course, the fact that there is physical evidence such as the bullet that was turned inside out. How does that happen? I personally have never heard of that. I'm not sure how that's physically possible. But it was. And that was physical evidence that was found.

That's not just something he said happened. That was physical evidence that was found and kept. So I don't know where that came from. So under the assumption that all this actually happened, he says that he shot the gun and then essentially time slowed down. He can see the bullet come out. It hits, you know, like in midair, presumably the craft that had some type of forest field around it, that was transparent and falls to the ground, turns inside out.

But then we talk about how he said everything went silent. The animals were silent. there was no birds, nobody was the deer weren't running away, the elk weren't running away. I couldn't help but to think of something really similar that we actually just spoke about on a completely separate occasion a few weeks back. If you remember, I had on a man from Portugal named Antonio Alves. And Antonio spoke about his lifelong encounters and experiences with the paranormal, with the UAP subject. And one of the stories that he related was about in his adolescent young adult years

where this craft flew overhead at his farm in Portugal, his farmhouse, and he went outside to go check out this big, you know, saucer-shaped or cigar-shaped craft that was flying over. And he saw one of the distinct things that he remembered about that night was that all of the animals on the farm, dogs, horses, goats, all these different animals, were completely silent. Now, how do we have two separate stories? I had never spoken to Antonio Avis before that our interview, well, with the exception of a couple emails back and forth, of course, setting up the interview. And I had never spoken to Laura Ranger, of course, again, with the exception of back and forth emails to set up the interview. I didn't know those two details about their separate stories,

or at least in this case the story that, you know, Laura was relating about Carl Higden. I had no idea that those two details were there until I started talking about it with the respective people that had on my show with Laura Ranger and with Antonio Alves. So the fact that we have a striking detail like that where nature goes silent, where Antonio tells us about that in his life, and Laura tells us about that with Carl Higden's story. To me, you can call it a coincidence. You can say it doesn't mean anything. You could say, Stephen, you're looking into this way too much and you're going crazy here.

Okay, that's fine. But to me, that is something that honestly kind of gave me chills when I went back. Because I'll be honest, actually, I didn't catch that when we were talking about it. It was when I was going back to listen to it and I was kind of combing through some things to take some notes, which I typically do after an interview. I like to go back and listen and take some notes. and it's for reasons like that because I didn't catch that

when we first spoke about it but when I went back and started taking notes on what we spoke about all of a sudden it was like whoa it clicked it was like oh my gosh that's the same thing Antonio Alves was speaking about so just an odd thing again you can call it a coincidence

you can say they're not connected that's fine but I couldn't help but to notice that and I thought it was really really intriguing another thing that kind of stuck out to me was his amnesia You don't normally hear other than missing time, right? That's a very, you know, common detail with abduction cases, and he did have that missing time.

And a lot of that stuff, a lot of these details that Laura, you know, covers in her book. And that Carl tells about his story happened because of hypnotic regression with Dr. Leo Sprinkle, who, by the way, in his own right, you heard us mention how he was kind of a pioneer and he was. This is the guy that was the real deal. And he took it upon himself to really dig into abductors. cases. And so this guy, you know, wasn't like some some crackpot doctor. He was a highly regarded doctor within his field and within academics. So, and he took it upon himself to really dig into this, this field when everybody else was kind of ostracizing, you know, patients,

if you will, of people who say that they went through abduction cases. And so Dr. Leo Sprinkle is somebody that spoke to a lot of different witnesses, patients who say that they went through abduction scenarios and Carl Higdom is one of them and you heard Laura mentioned that Dr. Leo Sprinkle said that he found no fault in Carl Higden's story. But he went through these regressions and we got a lot of these details because of that. So when we hear about these things, it's, I don't know. I mean, it's really truly is incredible, which is why I called this episode I titled that the unbelievable story of Carl Higden because it's like you almost have to sit back and

think to yourself, oh my gosh. Like, is stuff really true? Like, this really happened to this guy? 1974, the case is very well documented. A lot of physical evidence. The drawings are out there with this alien named Azo I. I mean, Carl Higden drew different sketches himself that matched professional artists, like you heard Laura say.

The date of this, if you want to go look it up, if you didn't know about it, you know, a lot about this story, October 25th, 1974 is when Carl Higden claims this abduction happens. So those are some of the things that really, really kind of stuck out with me, especially with that nature part. That really kind of hit me like a bolt of lightning when I went back to listen to this and was taking notes on it. And there were two other things that I wanted to say,

one of them about the light mile, because you heard me mention that at the start. But before I get into that, she mentioned at the end of the conversation there, the name Enders, where she said that he wrote down the name Enders. And she spoke to police about it and said, you know, what is it with this name Enders? And they're like, leave it alone. It was just a strange night. They told her the same thing, by the way, when it came to the bullet turned inside out.

Because she tried to ask, you know, what is about this bullet that's turned inside out? How could that be possible? And their answer to her was just leave it alone. So, you know, we can only speculate about what the local law enforcement is. knew about this case, what they were told about it, possibly, from higher-ups, and how they were told to handle it. Because they were very, very dodgy, I suppose to be a word, when it comes to how they handled the questions, according to what Laura claims there, from Carl's side of the story. But we listened to that name, the Enders. There's some type of hunters, apparently, is what she said. And I did some digging. I'm like, because I've never heard of Enders before.

when it comes to the alien conversation. The only thing I could find on this, and again, maybe this is a coincidence, I don't know, is the video game Ender's game. And in this game, interestingly enough, it features insect-like alien species that fight humanity. And now the aliens in this game, Ender's game, Ender is actually pertaining to the main character,

the protagonist, a boy named End, Ender Wiggin has described in the video game as a human child prodigy, and he's trained to lead the military against the aliens named Formics. Now, I've never played Ender's game. Sounds like a lot of fun. Sounds like something that I would like to play. But that's the only connection that I could find. And, of course, Enders is something that Carl Higden wrote in his notes 50 years ago.

Maybe this is where they got the idea for this game. I have no idea. But that's the only connection I could find. When I typed in something about how extraterrestrials would connect to the name Enders, the video game Enders game comes up. So make of that what you will, but it's very odd, and I don't know what else to make of that, and why he would write Enders and how it relates to the UAP phenomenon. But I just thought that was interesting how kind of a video game dealing with aliens had the name Enders in it.

I don't know. Now, the last thing I'll touch on is this. and this could really be a moot point. It's just so weird. I can't help but to laugh because I'm looking at a picture right now as I speak of the sketch that Carl Higden drew of this alien named Azo I. It's wild stuff. I'm actually going to put this out on social media.

If you follow along on Twitter especially at UA Podcast 850, I've got to put this picture out. I've got to copy this picture and put it out on Twitter. This sketch is literally an alien. floating in the air and exactly how Laura described it in her book on one arm he's missing a hand

and on the other arm he's got like this cone-shaped dagger or something coming out of it and he's got the antennas sticking out with his spiky hair. It's wild stuff, man. He's in the all-black suit

and this is the sketch that Carl Higden drew. So I'll put this out on social media right there on Twitter at UA Podcast 850. It's incredible. but outside of this picture, the one thing that I didn't get to yet that is either just a misstep, it's maybe that Laura misspoke.

But I said it again and she confirmed the term light mile. I had never heard of the term light mile before. Normally we deal with light years. And she mentioned that they traveled, like Carl Higden said that they traveled her words during the episode, 136,000 light miles to his planet, to Azo One's planet. Now, if we take that on its surface, right, that she actually meant light miles,

then that pertains to time, not distance. Now, if we take it as light years, that pertains to distance, and that would lead us about 800 trillion miles, give or take a trillion miles or so, out into the galaxy. That takes us to the edge of the Milky Way galaxy, which would take us to exoplanets

that telescopes like James Webb have observed. Way, way, way out there, the edge of the Milky Way galaxy. So maybe that's what she meant when she said light miles, maybe she meant light years, and that would match up with the distance

that we've observed with James Webb telescope that says that there are exoplanets that far out into the galaxy. and if that's the case, then maybe that's where they traveled. Now, if that is the case, of course, 136,000 light years is a ridiculous distance, and it would take a very, very long time. Of course, 136 years if you're traveling at the speed of light. So if we are thinking that Azo 1 was traveling at the speed of light with Carl Higden,

it would have taken 136 years our time to get there and then get back. Now, that would be impossible, because, according to the account, it was only a few hours that Carl Higden was gone. Now, how does this all relate, right? Is this all relative when it comes to time? And then, of course, the question would be, are they actually teleporting? Is there some type of wormhole travel that would allow this distance to be traversed within the matter of a couple of hours?

Of course, relatively speaking. Or are we talking about what she said, which I reiterated, and she said yes, which was the term light miles. Here's where it gets interesting. If we are to take that at face value, if we are to say that was not a flub there, then if we're looking at 136,000 light miles, that would be approximate equal to 0.73 seconds.

Again, light miles is a theoretical term. It's not even really a standard astronomical unit, but it is a theoretical term that relates to a unit of time, usually used in science fiction or theoretical physics. And a lot of scientists look at it as a thought experiment, the term light mile. And it would measure time, distance in time. And I keep highlighting the word time because what if we're talking about time travel in this case? Not wormhole travel, not travel through the Milky Way galaxy to some exoplanet,

800 trillion miles away, but actual time travel, if we're talking about light miles, this theoretical term, and 136,000 light miles, that would be approximately 0.73 seconds. So if we're looking at that as a possibility, are we looking at something like time travel rather than something along the lines of travel through space? And if it is time travel, are we looking at some type of time travel? human incarnation here that is coming back and forth to save earth. Maybe they were living on earth. And this is some type of being from the future coming back.

I know I'm getting way, way out there. But I looked this up and went because I had never heard of light miles. I'm like, I have to fact check myself here. What the heck is a light mile? And this is what I came across. So if this is an actual term that's being used, if this is the term that Carl Higden described in the journey, 136,000 light miles,

then we're not talking about distance. We're talking about a measure of time. So we're talking about, in that case, time travel. And that would explain how they're able to get, you know, back and forth. And maybe why they need all these resources, because we've run out of resources, you know, a certain amount of time into the future. It would also explain the alien speaking, physically speaking,

Azo I, physically speaking English to Carl Higton. It would also explain the human-like features that Carl described. Remember, I asked specifically during the interview, wait, so you're telling me that this doesn't relate to any other alien that we've spoken about before, like a gray, a tall gray, a short gray, a Nordic, a Palladian, and insectoid, a mantis, whatever. And the answer was no. And when you look at the sketches, that Carl Higden made, it doesn't look like any of those.

It looks like some weird human. So this is an option that I'm just throwing out there based off the term that she used, that she says Carl Higden used, which was light miles. That's a distance of, that's a measurement of time. Just something that struck me. I may be way off base here, and you might be thinking this guy has lost it, but I'm just going based off of what she said. of what Carl Higden said, and that's a measurement of time.

Very, very interesting to kind of consider there in this story. I mean, look, if we're going to consider the story as a whole, though why not consider this as part of it as well? Is it really that crazy to think about compared to everything else that we heard throughout this entire story? I love this stuff. I love it. I love talking about it with you.

I love presenting it, and I can't wait to do it all again on the next episode of UAP. I hope you enjoyed this one. super fascinating stuff, so much fun to talk about. And obviously I didn't even get into some of the current events, like with former President Obama saying that aliens were real and then walking some of that back over this past weekend. But I do get into that on the next episode because I bring in documentarian and filmmaker Darcy Weir.

Darcy's obviously a big name in this field, has done a bunch of documentaries within the UFO topic, and he's been on the show in the past. And I was happy to bring him back on again to talk about his new film actually and what it covers, which is kind of a controversial topic, which is why I wanted to talk about it, because you know I love the controversial topics within this field. I don't shy away from it at all, which are the secret space programs and the supposed secret space, again, time travelers and secret space soldiers.

He did a documentary on this and exploring some of the people who actually say they went through these programs and we kind of dissect all of these claims to try to figure out what is real and what is not. in that discussion. Wild stuff as usual. And in that discussion, we do get into more of the current events when it comes to, what did former President Obama have to say about, yes, aliens are real and then walking back. And how does it relate to what we've been talking about with the supposed disclosure

coming up from President Trump on July 8th? So we kind of tie all that together. That'll be in the next episode with Darcy Weir. But this one, that was a lot of. of fun. It's just wild stuff to consider, so I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. All that said, be sure to continue to follow along on

all the social media platforms at UA Podcast 850. I do get stuff up on YouTube. I always get a lot of people reaching out to me saying whenever I put a video up, I always get people reaching out saying, I didn't know you had stuff up on YouTube. So yes, I do. It's at UA podcast on YouTube. Not a ton

up there that I get to put up on a regular basis, but I do get stuff up there. Actually, my latest interview with Mark Christopher where we spoke about the Trump Disclosure speech. That entire interview is on YouTube. So if you want to check that out, you can do that. And, of course, continue to download the show on any of the major podcasting platforms. Just search UAP on Identified Alien Podcast.

And be sure to come back for more on the next episode. I always appreciate you coming back. If you didn't, then I would stop doing it. So it's because of you that I keep going. So I always appreciate you coming back here on the show and keeping me going here because it's what I love to do. And of course, I always say feel free to contact me. through direct messages on those channels or through email, S-D-I-E-N-E-R-U-A-P at g-M-L.com.

It's S-D-N-R-U-A-P at g-Mel. But on that note, we'll head out for now and I'll just say thank you again for everything, for all the support, because it really does mean the world to me. So until next time, it's Stephen Deener here saying, be well. Thanks so much.

We'll talk again soon right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast.