UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 214 MK Ultra and the UFO Connections

Episode Date: July 9, 2026

Back with a new episode, Stephen Diener brings on attorney Paige Fox to discuss her work with some well known whistleblowers and reveal for the first time some big plans that never came to be, but may have been a true game changer. We also learn a little about Project Looking Glass. Come into this one with an open mind...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome back in to UAP. Stephen Dean are back with you here for episode 214 of the Unidentified Alien podcast. And it feels like it's been forever since I've been here on a fresh new episode of UAP. Had a lot of vacation there during Fourth of July holiday, going away. Actually, I was in Washington, D.C. for my birthday. Took a family trip there, the wife and the kids, and we went up to D.C., which was fun for me because every time I've been up to D.C. lately, it's been to, you know, you know, work on everything with UAP.

So a fun change there to go as a tourist for once. But all the vacation, all that is done. It's back to work here. It's back to the grind on trying to make sure that I get everything to you as much as possible when it comes to this conversation surrounding the UAP phenomenon. So welcome back into the show, and I'm happy to be back with you here to start a new run of fresh new episodes of UAP. And we start that today with.

with Paige Fox. Page is an old friend, actually, and you'll hear you'll hear me go into the background here to start off the episode. So not too much of a huge prologue here before we start, because they do explain it as we go into it. But Paige is someone who is really knowledgeable behind the scenes. You don't hear a lot about her in front of the mic, in front of the camera, if you will. But she's done a lot of work over the years behind the scenes with conversations with whistleblowers

in the UFO community. and more recently into the history behind the reports on MK Ultra. And that's one thing that, you know, I've kept my eye on over the years, but I never really dug into it kind of specifically by name. I've spoken about different things when it comes to implants or maybe even mind-controlled tactics once in a while. But that's really what it comes down to with MK Ultra, going back on the history of it, back.

into the 70s, you start to go into government experience or experiments on mind control. And that's what we try to connect the dots here. And I think we actually were able to do that when it comes to whistleblowers in the OAP community and when it comes to governments run experimentation on things like MK Ultra. So we cover all the bases here today on both ends of the spectrum. And there are some things here that, you know, you may not be used to. hearing on the show, specifically here on UAP, where we get into some different facets of the conversation.

And I even say it in the course of our conversation where I'm like, you know, this might be different for you today. But, you know, that's a good thing. And so hopefully you can keep an open mind on some of the things that we cover here today that you may not be used to hearing on UAP, but we bring it all together. And I think you'll enjoy the way that it did come together here in a really thought-provoking and compelling manner. So that's the setup here for today with my conversation with Page Fox, attorney-at-law,

and someone who has done a lot of work behind the scenes on whistleblower testimonies and conversations. So I'll let us get to that here right now on this new episode of UAP. Enjoy. Page Fox, thank you for coming back here to UAP. Happy to bring you back. And there is, I know a lot that we want to catch up on because it's been a while. So thanks for coming back on here. Absolutely.

Thank you for having me. Yeah, no, I mean, like I said, I'm excited to hear what you've been up to and excited to talk about what I've been doing. Yeah, we'll tie it all together because for anybody who may not remember, and if you've been with the show for a while, then you probably do. But if you're unfamiliar with the background here with myself and Paige, Paige, Paige was someone who, like, you know, a lot of us came into the topic and may not have been something that you were completely interested in and before. but a few years that changed for her and she started realizing, wait, there might be something to this. And we ended up meeting in Washington

summer of 2023 where we attended the Dr. Stephen Greer Disclosure Press Conference. And that was quite a historic day, actually. We went there together. We said, let's go check this out. And that was where we were introduced to D.C. Long, Eric Hecker,

Michael Herrera, probably most notably, and I don't mean that in a bad way toward any of the other guys who were there, but, you know, Michael Herrera is a name that has really stuck around since that press conference a few years ago. And ever since then, you know, you've been a guest on the show a couple of times because you did work with these whistleblowers. You did work with the names I just mentioned as well as Jason Sands. So these are names that kind of became synonymous with the field as far as people who became whistleblowers, military officials, military members who became whistleblowers in the UIP topic. So for anybody who may not remember or be familiar with it,

can you just give us a little backstory on that page on the work that you did with those whistleblowers and maybe how that's carried over to now a few years later and the work that you've been doing? Yeah, yeah, for sure. You were really the first person I found in this topic. And I dove right into your podcast back in 2023 the year prior to that, I literally did not believe in ETs, in UFOs, and anything of a related sort. So when I did start diving into it, like I said, you were the first person I found. I contacted you about it.

And I was just like, what is going on? You know, and at that same point in time, I'd also reach out to Greer and Danny Sheehan as well, and reached out to them from like the attorney perspective because what really triggered it was, and it's not even really UFO related, I guess, but it was the water car that could drive from New York to California with water. And then the person who created it, all of a sudden died seriously after meeting with the Pentagon, I think, or something.

And I just, I mean, I remember crying at that point. I was just like, this is insane. There are so many people who are just dying because they're finding out what's going on. and or, you know, people who are being lied to. It's just, it was a whole mess. And so it was really, really disheartening. So that's why I reached out to Greer and Danny and I was just like, we've got to do something about this.

Like maybe we can get a group of attorneys together to do pro bono work for these whistleblowers to help people come forward about this. And that's really what triggered it. Right. Both of them, like, I was totally shocked about it honestly because they seemed like they were really big names in the community at that point already. So I was shocked that they reached back out, but they both reached back out within days of me sending that initial email. And that was when the conversation began from there. That's how you and I kind of connected. And then we started working with Greer, went to the DC stuff.

That's where I met the whistleblowers, you know, in person and started really communicating with them directly. DC and Mike, for sure, the two that I still communicate with the most. Jason as well. But as you know, as you remember, that whole project kind of went downhill. For lack of a better way of saying this. And why did it go downhill over the past few years? Hmm. I would say egos.

Okay. That would be my biggest response. And not, I won't say anybody in particular because their egos, as you know, are just very big in all of this to begin with. But there was just a lot of budding heads. There was a lot of it should be done this way. And attorneys were like, no, it should be done this way. And so it just kind of like broke apart.

And for the record, we aren't to when we say egos, I think we can agree. We aren't talking about the whistleblowers. We're talking about some of the other people behind. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely not. I think any ego that's portrayed on the whistleblowers, at least that I've seen from my perspective, is intentionally portrayed that way.

to give them less credit or whatever it is. Because any of the whistleblowers I've worked with, no matter what they've been involved with, they're all human. And they're all people who are literally just trying to survive a lot of them. And again, like that's really what I was interested in, was helping them as the people because it just was heartbreaking to see how many people were going through these things.

And at the time, I really, and even while we were in D.C. and going through all of this, like, I've kind of talked about this on Twitter a little bit, but I felt like I was just, you know, like, I shouldn't have been there. I didn't know what I was talking about. I was like I kind of felt like I understood what was going on. I felt like there was a way that I could really help, but it was like imposter, imposter syndrome. Right. You know, like I was like, I've never done trial court. Like I've never been involved in civil litigation or anything like that. So it just didn't. feel like I knew how to help, but I knew that I had a lot of contacts. I knew that I had a lot of attorney friends and everything. So I thought I can definitely connect these people, you know, and that was my goal. Whereas, as you know, the DC stuff was way more focused on like Rico and stuff like that. Like that's kind of how my plans kind of got changed to other other things, which is fine. I don't know what's going on with that, if anything anymore, but I'm no longer involved in that.

Right, yeah, the idea was to kind of bring it along like this RICO case against essentially all the government contractors, if I remember correctly, people who were hiding. And that's something that's still going on now. We'll get to the congressional part of this stuff too because we've seen, you know, in Congress where they're trying to go after, specifically Eric Burleson has been really vocal about trying to go after some of these, you know, private companies, the contractors. And that's kind of an evolution of what you were trying to do. with the names involved that we mentioned of going after these companies. And I think it's kind of evolved into that. I mean, correct me

from wrong page, but it kind of seems like it's taken a new life. The people who were originally involved outwardly, maybe don't seem to be that involved anymore. And we'll just say the names with Greer and Sheehan. I mean, as far as, you know,

because I don't want to be too abstract here. You know, those are the names we mentioned, and those are the names, at least for Greer, that was. that were involved with some of that in the past. And I don't know if they still are. Oh, I thought I was going to ask. Yeah.

And, you know, I don't, I haven't kept up a lot of those conversations. And this is actually kind of stuff. So this is kind of, we're talking freely here. These are things that Paige and I have never spoken about publicly. So essentially you're listening to a private conversation right now is what's happening. So to catch you up, you're working with,

Greer and I was kind of in the background. This is all new information that I've never spoken about. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. I've never revealed that I was involved with you in Greer before. Because there is, Greer is, who I've since met back in September of 25 at the most previous hearing.

It was actually the first, yeah, it was the first time I met him. And he's just one of those people like there are in the UFO community. he's one of those people that you either trust a guy or you think he's full of it. And so you know me, I try my best to stay in the middle of this conversation and just present the details. So if I'm, you know, quote unquote, working with someone on something, I don't want that to come across as I'm on somebody's team. And that's why, right, right. And so that's why we both looked at it the same way.

And I think that's why we both kept it quiet up until right now, three years later, literally as we talk about it. But that was taking place. We were working behind the scenes with Greer and looking into those things, bringing in RICO cases. I know that's what you're working on with Danny Sheehan. But it seems like that's not really the case anymore. And that's kind of moved on. Yeah. No.

And that's, I mean, I've talked to Danny a little bit since then. I know that he's super busy and he's got a lot of. on. I'm not sure if you had a chance to talk with him. But yeah, the stuff working with Greer, and this is my opinion on everything. Well, first of all, I'm not as good as you are at staying neutral. I have opinions and I'm loud about them. But too, I still look at it. Like, we need to separate the person from the facts because a lot of that stuff is intentionally blended. And I've noticed that, you know, even just on the UFO Twitter, like tweets out there. It's just like a constant use to divide and distract sort of thing.

And so, you know, I was a little bit more vocal about working with him and the fallout and all of that stuff. But it's, I don't have anything personal against anybody to this day. You know, it's we had different opinions on how things should go. I left. I don't know what happened after that. 99.9% of the people that I met through all of that, including you and all of the attorneys that I had worked with at that point were wonderful.

You know, again, we didn't always agree on everything, but the people themselves seemed like legit people. But yeah, so I just, I want to make that very clear, too, that it's not that I'm picking sides, and that's actually part of the reason I took a step back from everything was because it was just like it almost felt like I had to pick a side or something or I wasn't going to get anywhere, and that didn't feel fair.

Right, exactly. So with that said, we kind of fast forward now. A lot has evolved over the past few years. And it seems like more than ever now, Congress has really kind of taken the mantle on this. Now, there are still people, you know, the private or, you know, the investigators, the podcasters, the journalists who are still in the forefront of all this, of course. But more than ever, over the past few years, Congress has really taken the reins publicly on. pushing this forward. I don't think that's even really, you know, a secret or debatable. We've seen the hearings. We've seen the press conferences. We've seen all the public appearances. So with that said, what have you kind of made out of that, knowing that, you know, you were behind the scenes with all this over the past few years and you kind of seen Eric Burleson and others kind of take the mental on this? What has been your read on that? And do you think it's going anywhere? No. I do not think it's going anywhere. were because I mean I well and that was kind of why I stepped away from what Danny was doing was

Danny was more in the legislative side of things and I said right away I was like I don't want to get involved in this it seems like we're going in circles you know and his point of view at the time was that like there had been a lot of progress and I'm sure there had been since you know he had been involved in that whole world for years and years and years so from the point that he had started working at it, I guess there had been quite a bit of progress. But from my perspective, right away, even the two years that I was more involved in that side of things, I was like, this is, it seemed like almost intentionally not going anywhere. And it seemed like there was a lot of gatekeeping as far as who got to go in front of Congress and what their stories were and what

was being told. And so it was almost like I was watching them have a congressional hearing on stuff that we had known 50 years ago, while the rest of us who were involved in the world were like, okay, sure, yeah, that happened. But also, let's talk about what's going on right now, actually, because you all know what's actually happening. You know the types of technology that we have, that sort of stuff. Like, why aren't we talking about that? And that was kind of where you start getting roadblocked about things or you just don't,

you don't hear back from people. And again, so it just, I took a step back. because I got frustrated in the lack of progress that was being made. So yeah, that that's, and that's fair, you know, based off your personal experience. So that's, I'm curious about that, though. What did you experience as far as roadblocks and, you mentioned gatekeeping? I find that very curious as well. I mean, did you see something specific that told you, well, shoot, why isn't this person or that person talking, oh, it's for a specific reason?

And I don't, this is nothing towards specific people in politics or really anybody. But I would say that it, I was talking to a bunch of other people on the side. I'm not known names, but with stories that were just also like out of this world. Hey guys, we'll get back to that in just a second. but I wanted to kind of continue something here that I've been talking to you about now for a little while. And that is my experience is with Shopify. You know, when you go to start a business, the worst thing is, the hardest part is trying to figure out where to begin. You have this idea, but how do you make that come to life?

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they will ask you where you heard about them. So please support my show and tell them my show sent you. And nobody had any interest in hearing any of that stuff. No matter the connections that you talk to, you would get names of certain people

at different conferences or something and you would reach out and they would be in communication and then they would stop communicating with you all of a sudden. So I don't want to say anything, you know, I don't want to make anybody angry. or say any specific names of people because I don't think it's anybody I don't think most people

are doing anything intentionally bad I think they're just kind of caught up in a system that's intentionally broken and intentionally kept you know meant to keep us spinning um but and to this day I haven't heard back from a lot of those people you know and I've still talked to more and more and more people and I understand Congress works the way it works and things are slow and everything but it just seems so unbelievable to me in the big picture of things with everything that we know, with all of these people who have all of these experiences, a lot of them being in government, in military, in defense contracting, why aren't they being able to tell their stories?

And so then when I started working with more and more of them, Jason being a good example of it, you see how the system just totally smashes them down. You know, it's like they use financial strain. They prevent them from getting jobs. And all of these things that make it that much harder to even come forward. So it's like, yeah, sure, we can brag about how

we're having this congressional hearing and how there's more whistleblower protections, but we're not actually talking about what the practical impacts of those things are, and they're zero, at least from my perspective, or at least zero quick turnaround. You know, I mean, you saw how long Jason was just like, He was jobless for a long time, Jason Sands.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, do you think, and he's not alone, obviously, you know, we've seen similar patterns. Of course, with everyone, you know, you've spoken to a lot of whistleblowers. We've mentioned names of the people who have come out in public, but I know you've spoken to a lot of experiencers and whistleblowers behind the scenes who are not out in the public. And I think it's important for people to know that. And, but even for the ones that are out in public, you know, we've, we've seen stories from

Dylan Borland. We've seen stories from David Grush. We've seen a lot of different stories of how their lives have been affected, which is why people don't come out in public to talk about it is because of the public intimidation. And that's exactly what I wanted, like, I realized that pretty quickly on. It was like, okay, well, we have to figure out a different way to do this. Because if you're, you know, I can try all I want to connect whistleblowers to attorneys in different states who can help them. but when they instantly get roadblocked and can't actually do anything about it,

what's the point besides racking of legal fees for these people when they already have financial strain on them in any capacity possible? Yeah. And with that thought in mind, page, do you think that this is something based off of the current, I guess, trajectory that we've, that are on now and the things that have taken place as far as hearings and government drops, the file drops over the past you know a couple of months

do you feel like this is something that is a controlled process meaning now obviously you know a government file drop would be scheduled right that's not what I mean but as far as the entire process itself do you feel like there's some forces behind the scenes

that are trying to control the way all this information comes out who says what and when they say it is that too conspiratorial No. I mean, no, absolutely not. Like the, no, it is not conspiratorial. And just think, you can think about any capacity. I mean, go, let's think about cigarettes. That is something that, like, is totally not a conspiratorial thing at all. People smoke cigarettes. Look at how the government acted when cigarettes, you know, back in the day when you had scientists and doctors and all of these people telling you cigarette smoking is fine. It is good for your health or whatever else. You know, Like all these things, you convince an entire population that it's okay, whereas all of this science is leaking out. All of these studies are leaking out saying that it's bad for you. And at that same process and time, we've got these same people behind the cigarette companies,

weeding their way into the food companies. And then right when cigarettes all of a sudden are like the government saying, oh, this is bad for you, you shouldn't be smoking. Well, that's fine because they've all moved to the food industry at this point. Now you've got the same marketing people in the food industry, and it's the same thing in every system. Like it seems unconnected, but I've seen it from numerous different perspectives where it's like they slowly leak this stuff when they have already got a plan of where it's going. And that plan seems to always relate to money in any capacity. Money and national security.

Yeah. Yeah. you're right and look you can't argue with it always comes back to money and you know obviously national security has mentioned a lot and I do think there are some

there are some instances where national security probably does really play a part when it comes to you know weapons development and things like that but it's probably something that is used you know it's overused to hide to over classify things

some of the things some of the other things that you've worked on page that I really wanted to try to get to you here with today is something that I don't get to talk about very often. But I think it's an important topic. And that is some of the mind control aspects of things. You know, because I do mention consciousness. I do get to talk about that and how consciousness as a whole plays into the UAP phenomenon. But there's a dark side to how consciousness can be used. And that happens with things or that happened.

and maybe some things even still happened with programs like MK Ultra and things of that nature. And I know you've done a lot of work into that. So is there a way where we can kind of connect the dots from MK Ultra to the current day now where we talk about the UAPE phenomenon and the congressional hearings? Because I know the task force in Congress, you know, in Appalina Luna has been very vocal about looking into MK Ultra as well. So can we connect those dots? Yeah. Yeah. the other day.

Yes, I would love to. And I want to, I'll take a step back. So when I started talking about the whistleblower stuff, I think there were, I did like a lot of live lives on Twitter. What is it called? Yeah, the spaces. Yeah. I did quite a few spaces.

And that's when the targeted individual community started like really reaching out to me. Because they were kind of blended in because they were seeing the MK Ultra crossover with the whistleblower stuff that was finally coming out in government, or yeah, and like the congressional hearings and stuff. So all of that was like really happening at the same time. And then I took a step back. I was doing those spaces.

The whole point of the spaces was to provide self-help, like resources and stuff. And I think the last one I did of that was with Danny. And then at that point, during that space, which felt, we could talk about that later, but it felt just it didn't feel like the Danny that I had like worked with in the past, which was a bummer. But I mean, again, you know, like he at that point had really skyrocketed. And so he had a lot of things going on.

So, but. Yeah. Danny Sheehan, of course. Yeah, yeah, sorry, Danny Sheehan. And during our conversation, I brought up the MK Ultra stuff. And he made a comment that he was also involved in all of that stuff. and like hearings and stuff and it was like what?

And he didn't elaborate on it and he never really like followed back up with me with my questions on it. But apparently he had been involved with the MK Ultra stuff for quite a while too from like the legal side or legislative side side. I don't know. I don't remember exactly what it was. But I was like, oh, okay.

So you are like people are aware of this stuff going on because it seems like it was totally, at least the UFO Twitter world, they were like, those people are crazy. And they just, I don't know, it was like an instant battle. And then why are you working with them? Those people are crazy. They make things up.

So then it was like, okay, well, obviously this is kind of being talked about or something has happened. And that's when I really started getting involved in the targeted individual communities and just talking to people more behind the scenes. Because it did seem absolutely insane. You know, even after. knowing about what the government and had been doing for the last three years, like my, you know, working with them in it and stuff, even just learning this stuff was like,

okay. Like, how do you communicate this to other people? Like, in a way that can help these whistleblowers. And that's how, so that's really how the MK Ultra stuff started. But prior to that, I had heard about it a little bit, but I had no idea, like, about what it consisted of and that's usually how it happens right one thing leads to another

that domino effect so what did you end up finding out I mean the people that you spoke to I mean when it came to MK. Ultra or any experiences like that you know maybe not even going back to the 70s but any type of you know targeted things that were happening

to people what did you end up finding out and I mean did you see commonalities between that and what happens with the UFO community Everywhere. Yeah. It was a very, not only did I see patterns in how it was handled in the mainstream and via media and via congressional hearings and even legislation or yeah, legislation and case law, but also the tactics that were being used on people. The financial strain, the isolation. It's like all in that really when the MK Ultra stuff started, when I started, when I started. working with those people it was like oh okay so maybe i'm less of an imposter because all of this stuff i was seeing with the mk ultra and even the whistleblowers but particularly the mk ultra um whistleblowers was that it was like a reflection of any abusive tactic that i had seen in like the domestic violence world um it was almost like an overlap and so obviously that in itself just gaslighting

is a huge mind game. And people, you know, think, like, there's no way our government, like, MK Ultra is, you know, not a real thing or whatever people want to say. But, like, you look around yourself on a daily basis and the mind control is everywhere right now. Our phone is with us at all times. And the gas lighting. So, right? People who talk about abductions, they sound crazy. People who talk about I was targeted and they did experiments in my mind.

They sound crazy. And so it's kind of, there's a similar stick. I guess it's what's happening, right? Yeah. To make people feel like, well, I don't want to talk about it because people are going to say X, Y, and Z about me. So, I mean, is this a prevalent thing still, page? Because when people hear about MK Ultra, they think, okay, well, that was a long time ago.

But are we talking about mind control government run? This is, you know, obviously a big allegation. And, of course, we can't say yes or no for sure. But are we talking about the possibility of, baby, I don't know, the problem. possibility of current or at least recent government-run programs that were being used for mind control on people, experiments and maybe even active mind control? I mean, are we talking about these things? I would argue, in my personal opinion, absolutely 100%.

There is no doubt that this stuff is still going on. I've talked with a lot of people who are in, I think, in this MK Ultra stuff. And yeah, it goes from in the 70s, you know, the stuff that they're now just talking about. Chaos, the book Chaos. He was the author, which is right here. It's on your bookshelf there, yeah. Yeah. Tom O'Neill was just in the MK Ultra congressional hearing.

He was testifying in it. And he wrote that book. That talks about the LSD, all of that stuff. I just talked with a friend from high school whose mom was knows that she was in that program. Like she was part of the LSD stuff. That's down by, you know, in Southern Illinois, that stuff was happening all the time. I've talked with people who a lot of people. There's technology out there.

They're like chips. And there's various, various types of chips. So people are being chipped. The people you've talked to are saying that they've been shipped? Yeah. And again, that sounded crazy to me, but I started looking into patents and stuff. And obviously, if you look at certain patents, because these people can be sloppy, but they're not necessarily dumb, you know, like you word patents in a way that sounds beneficial for people. This technology could be used to all of the, you know, hearing stuff, like the benefit of, like even hearings, like stuff like stuff like that.

Think about the technology that's being used and you read the patents on it and it sounds great. Sounds like something that if I had no idea this stuff was being used on the flip side of what is being written in the patents, that I would be all for that sort of thing. And so you see that type of technology and then the people that you talk to that are dealing with, the stories. overlap like crazy. Yeah, I was about to say actually, so what have you been told on that end that makes you think, okay, there really is something going on here? Like what have these people told you when they say, you know, this experience, I remember this or I think I've chipped because of this?

What are some of those things that you've been told? I have talked to numerous people who have no connection to each other as far as I know. that are consistently getting voices put into their heads. Or they can legitimately hear conversations that other people are having. And I've talked with people who think they've been implanted in the 70s already, and they've had scans of their bodies. Again, there's like a lot of people who are looking into this stuff, but doctors who have technology or, you know, equipment to scan bodies and you can, they've, like, found chips in their bodies.

I've been sent those reports. So, you know, I'm not sitting here claiming that I believe every single thing that somebody told me was true. But in my opinion, you know, I'm not here to judge somebody's story. I'm here to help them if I can. And so there's, you know, it just, it's. so much that if you are not super familiar with technology or if you don't fully understand legislation or something like that, like it's so easy to miss certain things and it's so easy to speak the wrong way because it's so complicated that it's it's hard to talk about

publicly in a way that's not going to get you sued or some other issue. Right. No, I understand. Hey guys, we'll get back to that in just a second. But I wanted to kind of continue something here that I've been talking to you about now for a little while. And that is my experience is with Shopify. You know, when you go to start a business, the worst thing is, the hardest part is trying to figure out where to begin. You have this idea, but how do you make that come to life? Here's the great thing with Shopify. Everything you need is right there ready for you from day one.

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you know and obviously the claims are are massive right that we're talking about the very consequential so one of the reasons or one of the things that I think people would ask when they hear something like this is first of course I think the natural reaction is like whoa okay oh my gosh this is wild but then the next natural question is

well why would this be happening so I want to ask you that question because I think people would be thinking it right now as they listen or watch is okay so if they're this is happening to people, if they're being shipped, if they're being watched, if they're being implanted, if they're been taken for experiments on my control with whether MK. Ultra or other programs since before or, or, you know, after, why? Why would it be happening to them? That is a great question. I mean, I think patterns that I've found in why certain things happen

to certain people, military connections. in your family because a lot of this stuff stemmed from, I mean, it was being tested on people in the military, you know, and I've talked with people who say that they've, like, the contracts that have been signed, a lot of their contracts that had been signed and, you know, people can talk more about this if they want to themselves, but there's a lot of small, small, small, small, small print in those contracts that essentially it seems to lock up an entire family or generations of a family basically. So for example, one of the people that I've talked to has family members who step siblings. That's another common thread.

I don't know why, but step siblings and step parents seem to be a pattern that I've come across are very high up in military. and they tend to or get certain jobs in government following the fact. So again, it's all kind of speculation. But I don't want to say that most people are doing this for bad reasons. I think, like, based on the stories I've heard, you know, doctors could be out there because they've been contracted by, you know, the third party to the government to run studies. And they're being told these studies are for the benefit.

of humanity and they've focused their whole life on wanting to help humanity via being a doctor or being you know and so they think they're doing it for the greater good you know if for anybody who says yeah sure mk ultra started and you know it was done already by the 80s or whatever you want to argue like that's BS you know because if you know if you know anything about how ingrained it got back in that day and then you just put on top of it the technology that we have right now. Why would they stop, I guess? Everywhere. Yeah. I mean, and it's

really interesting when you talk about, you know, the different kind of layers that go into it because that makes me think about, we talk about parallels between the UAP topic and when we talk about, you know, government's controlled experiments with something like, again, you know, it's going to sound conspiratorial to people, but I think there are

intersections here when it comes to mind control and government-run programs because when it comes down to it, when we talk about the UAP topic, we're talking about government-run programs, we were just, you know, we started off talking about, you know, these, these government contractors who are allegedly hiding the secrets that Congress are going after. So why wouldn't they be hiding secrets about other things, right? I mean, if you want to take different leaps. And so I think it's worth having that conversation that

we're having here today. It's all the same players. I mean, every single Black Rock is all over it like Boeing all over it. Lockheed Martin all over it. It's all over this stuff. Yeah. And so don't, you can't say that, you know, like the UFO stuff is totally separate because it is not like it is all of the exact same players. And it's interesting too to look at the the onion, right? As we call it, the layers of the onion. And it's very similar construct in how when I've spoken, I spoke to Christopher Sharp, journalist from the Liberation Times, the editor-in-chief of the Liberation Times in the

UK. And he spoke about this and I hope to have him on again soon because that interview sticks in my head. It was like four months ago but it sticks in my head because he explained the construct of secrecy of government's bureaucracy that controls all this so well. I mean, he broke it down

like ABC and it's that onion. And it sounds like it's kind of the same thing where in the UFO topic, you have that construct in government and in the contractors, the private companies that hold the secrets, that hold the patents, that hold the technology over decades, allegedly, and then

you have it also here with mind control experiments. And again, the question would be why we asked that question with UAP and would there be different answers that I think we've explored a lot, whether it's money, whether it's power, whether it's tech, whatever it might be.

And when it comes to the mind control things, when we ask the question, why, I'm curious to get your take on this page. Is it, are we, are we, maybe one reason is we're experimenting with technology that we want to put out into the field against adversaries and we're experimenting on citizens? I mean, that's just a theory that I'm proposing to. I mean, I think that's part of it. I think that's almost always why you would, well, I think honestly there's different stories told to different people. The story that that you just mentioned, I think that's a very good way to get.

people in military to help with it, you know, who, who think that they're in it to protect this country, to do what's best for citizens. And they have been told their entire career, follow authority figures, do it this way. And that's exactly what they're doing. And then anybody who attempts to not do that is their job is taken away. Their pension is taken away. People are murdered. They are disappeared. They are, you know. no longer with us. Yeah, you're 100% right. And that's actually why Eric Burleson has brought up the subject of leniency and

pardons and having this immunity for some people who want to come out and talk. And I've heard this from a couple of other people. So it's interesting that you bring it up about just normal everyday people, patriots who want to do right by their country and the American people. and they think they're getting into something, whether it's the mind control aspect or whether it's the UAP aspect, they think they're getting into a program

and they sign on for it and they sign all these NDAs and then all of a sudden they realize, oh my gosh, I'm doing something really bad and now I can't get out of it. Yeah, and then you're blackmailed. Or if you leave and there's nothing else they can do, then you're disappeared, it seems like.

And that was the pattern that got me into the UFO stuff from the very beginning was stop letting these people just kill people. But then, you know, then you start looking down this whole thing and it got to a point where it was felt too big. Like how how do you even stop it? There are so many people doing so many things that like one, they may not know they're doing. Two, they may be doing it because they feel like that's their only option. That's a lot of it. Or three, there's that what it's the point oh, 04% of the population with all of the wealth and power right now. That's the. pulling the strings. But I think like it like I said, it felt so overwhelming at first. And then you start learning like, oh, all of these people who I've been told were bad or doing bad things. You start talking to them. And it's like they're not necessarily bad people. They're making bad choices. And it comes down to why are they making those choices. And that is the pattern over

and over and over in the UFO world, in the MK Ultra world, in the DV world, really anything. thing. I think it's part of just how it helps us, like we are the ones cranking that system. I am constantly complaining about the law. I got into the law because I wanted to help people. So again, you know, like I got caught into that loop in the beginning of trying to help the whistleblowers from a legal perspective, but you're just trying to fight these stupid rules that are put there to begin with to not get you anywhere. And so maybe it's because I just didn't have the patience or something that I was just like, this is not okay. Like I cannot wait this long for people to be able to come forward about it. But yeah. Well, before we're done here, Paige, I'll end on something a little bit more lighthearted.

How about how about we, to be lighthearted, we'll talk about looking into the future and remote viewing and looking at alternate timelines. That's a perfect way to end this. And I mentioned that because something that we were both talking about, off the mic, I guess I could say, is Project Looking Glass. And this is something I know you're kind of newly interested in and I've been looking into it and I think there are parallels here

just like I think we were actually able to draw a lot of parallels between the two. What people look at is maybe different things with mind control experiments in the OAP topic. There's a lot of parallels and a lot of dots we're able to connect there. And I think it's kind of the same here was something like Project Looking Glass, which was theoretically, people talk about it as this,

again, secret government run, military experiment, kind of, you know, using temporal techniques, mind to look into the future and to do all these types of things. And I think that connects. If it sounds crazy, it connects to me, and I'll get your take on this, because I don't think it's crazy either, it directly connects to remote viewing. And remote viewing is something that I've covered here extensively on the show. And it's something that is very well documented that the United States military and the CIA have been doing and have worked on for decades.

Going back to the 80s, Joe McManagall was their guy in the military. And it's documented that he remote viewed different military operations in the Soviet Union. And he remote viewed a lot of other things having to do with aliens, civilizations, alien craft. So it's a real technique. And they have, you know. I've done it. You've done it.

So when you talk about that, you know exactly what I'm talking about. And then you look into something like Project Looking Glass. What have you been learning about that? And do you see those parallels between what we've done with remote viewing in the past? I had not connected it to remote viewing for some reason. But that makes total sense because it's the same idea. But the remote viewing stuff, yes, it's everywhere. And actually, I want to ask you, like, how does it,

what are your views on how it directly connects to the project looking glass? Is that you're just, they're viewing the future? Because I mean, I've, the way I remote view was essentially you're given a coordinate and then you draw the coordinate, like what you're seeing from that coordinate that you're given. Right. That's the only way I had ever done it. And that's the only way that I had, like, I guess I had looked into it that I can think of. Yeah.

And that's normally, yeah, that's normally what it is, right. But there are, the way I connected is basically it's just that we're using your mind for both. There's, it's a certain sense of tapping into this technique, this ability that, you know, we can apparently tap into if it's something that you're willing to really kind of sit down and learn. and that's something that maybe is more innate for others when it comes to remote viewing and learning how to kind of put your mind out there to use your mind, to see a coordinate to, like Joe McMonicle did, look into a top secret Soviet submarine, which is, you know, the hunt for Red October.

They made a movie about it. And in this case, when we talk about Project Looking Glass, that might be more on the end of, you know, secret military experiments where you're using the mind for the other purposes to see these, alternate timelines supposedly as they were doing. Yes, the alternate timeline. So, okay, I had learned Google search trends. Okay.

Baron Coleman talks about Google search trends. I had never heard of that tool in my entire life and he was just using it for that stuff. So I started looking into it myself. And I found that my name, Paige Nicole Fox, had been searched in very important times in my life, not only worldwide, but also in Egypt and in Israel and in various other countries. And one of them was from 2005 where my name, my exact name and the word attorney was searched. So I can't talk about the date right now, but I will say that that date really quickly. coordinated with something big that happened in my life, 10 years before I even graduated law school.

So then I started looking into other people because I don't know if you've seen this tweet, but there's a lot of astrology stuff going on, I think, here too. And I saw a pattern with AOC and Luna, both being 1989. I was born in 1989 too. and so I decided to search their names too and do similar Google search trend patterns with those two and various other characters. And it was all the same thing.

I think AOC was the one that particularly was like all over the place. And to circle fully back to why the heck would they be doing this in the first place, I think maybe because they're seeing, what happened or seeing players that could be useful in the future and trying to potentially sway the outcome of them, I literally have no idea. So strange. It's very strange. And the fact that it was being searched worldwide, like my, I mean, if I, it changed now

because I publicly talked about this, like on my Twitter and stuff. So all of these Google search trends stuff that I have hundreds of screenshots of have since changed when I go to search it now. Really? But it was in Israel. It was in France. It was in Egypt. And it was in the U.S. in certain places. And I've narrowed

it down in certain places. But like those four are the ones that I noticed. My name. And you have no idea why your name would be searched in those locations at certain times. Literally no idea. Egypt. No. I've not even been.

Like to any, I've not been to Israel. I've up in Egypt. Like I, I, no idea. And I'm, my family's from Germany. And my name wasn't being searched in Germany.

And so the page Fox attorney thing was what really got me. And if it were just the searches, it would be one thing. But when I say that it lines up directly with extremely significant parts of my life, it just, there's no question. So then it becomes, okay, you know, like, why are they doing this? And maybe that's why.

Maybe they saw a future where I could be useful to whoever is searching me or they saw a future where I could be a problem to whoever is searching me. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. So just so we're clear, I mean, what we're talking about here is not only, you know, going from government's secrets with mind control with the UAP topic, but the theory of Project Looking Glass, like you're referring to,

is that the military has some type of secret capability to look into the future and alternate timelines. Look, I know this has been heavy stuff here today. I know maybe you might be like head spinning and shaking your head, like, what are you guys talking about today? But this is stuff that is brought up. This is stuff that people have experiences with. And obviously you personally have experience with.

Someone tell me. Listen, and right, exactly. We can, you know, maybe poo-poo it all we want, any of the things that we spoke about here today. But the fact of the matter is, people are experiencing things that relate to these topics that we're talking about. And if you think it's all BS, okay, look, you know what I've always been about here. Just aside for yourself, I want to bring these things up. I want to have these conversations and bring up these topics, even if they might feel new, different, uncomfortable, silly to you if you hear it. I don't know.

Or it's the opposite. And you might be applaudinging it and saying, Thank you for finally talking about this. I'm glad somebody's finally saying this. Bottom line is, we just want to put this out there. And I'm glad that we were able to do that. And Paige, I think you were the perfect person to bring on to talk about these things. Because, you know, the way you and I flow, we've known each other,

and you have experience in these fields. And it's wild. It's been really fascinating. But you know what? Like, I kind of mentioned this earlier. And I'm convinced a lot of the people that are doing this stuff. if they even realize that they're doing it, they are doing it because they feel trapped, blackmailed, like it's their only option, like, you know, an authority figure is telling

them to do something. Whatever it is, that person is intentionally feeling trapped, and it starts down here, and it just keeps building. So it's the similar idea as the onion. You know, you have all of us at a point intentionally being made out to think that there's nothing we can do. It's too much. And that's just not true. we all feel stuck. But like, the more that people can talk about it, the more that people can talk about their experiences and their own views without feeling judged, the better it'll be for everybody. Yeah.

And it's really not that hopeless. It's just crazy. Well, well said. And I think hopefully this conversation helps to do some of that and, you know, spread some of that today. It's been extremely fascinating. I'm glad we got to do it well overdue page. And I know there's a ton more we could cover,

but I guess we'll pick it up another time. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. And I just need to tell you, I have so many people that, like, if you want to dig more into, like, individual stories and stuff,

I would be happy to connect you with certain people. I just, I'm kind of playing this role of like, I don't want to say anything on behalf of them unless I know for sure they want me to. So, but I do think to help kind of elaborate on this stuff that we talked about today, if you want to talk to any of the,

particular individuals that I've worked with, I'm happy to connect you. Yeah, I appreciate it. And how could, if you want to be followed, how can people follow you to see some of the things that you're keeping up with? I'm on Twitter. I think it's just page. I actually don't know what it is. But we're friends on Twitter.

Pagebox underscore ATTY, I think, or something like that. Yeah, TikTok too. And I'm, I mean, you know how to get in contact with me. If there's anybody who wants to reach out as far as like stories. that they have or if they want legal assistance, I'm still working with attorneys in the UFO world. And I've talked with a lot of fabulous attorneys who are more interested in the legal side of things. And so if people are looking for assistance, I'm happy to connect them. And I also plan on once I get a little bit more settled, starting to do the Twitter spaces again as far as like self-help resources for people.

Cool. Now, Paige, thanks so much for doing this. again, really great. And I'm glad that we could catch up on all this today, kind of connect the dots, and try to make sense of things that, well, don't make a lot of sense to people. So I think we did a good job of it. I think I hope.

And I appreciate your time in doing that today. Yeah. Absolutely. It was great talking with you. Yeah, likewise. Page Fox right here on UAP. Thanks. Hey, guys. So I'm going to get back into the show in just a minute, but if you'll allow me, I wanted to get something a little bit more personal here. And that is my age. Yes,

I have just turned 40. And with that in mind being a now officially middle age, I have realized that it is harder for me to stay in shape. I work out, I exercise, I try to eat right whenever I can. But with all that in mind, I've noticed it's a lot harder to get in shape and stay in shape than it was when, let's face it, when I was younger in my 20s or even in my, you know, earlier 30s. And if you're experiencing the same thing I am, trying to stay in shape and stay lean, do what I did and get involved with Mars Men. Mars Men is a natural supplement. And it's to the same thing. And it's the same thing. designed to support healthy testosterone levels.

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tell them my show sent you. And there you have it for that conversation here today. Thank you again to Page for all the time and the effort that you put in to supplying, you know, a lot of this, this information. And as you heard there, too, and there was a lot to take in. And as you heard, there was a little bit of a reveal there as well, kind of going back into our past in, you know, working behind the scenes a little bit with Dr. Stephen Greer there. And I do want to kind of elaborate on that a little bit because when we say, you know, working behind the scenes, there was, you know, work being done from his disclosure conference that we spoke about there back in

2023 where they were going to try and it was happening with Danny Sheehan and there were a lot of discussions, a lot of conversations that were happening that people didn't know about with Danny Sheehan and he was trying to work with Stephen Greer to come up

with some plan to bring about RICO, a RICO case against a lot of these government entities or government contractors you know, the Lockheeds and companies like that where they would have to come out with all these records and they'll be brought to court and have to answer for all these different black programs. Obviously, that never materialized. And you heard Paige and I saying

that, you know, there were some egos that, you know, we should do it this way. We should do it that way. Of course, nothing ever happened. But when we talk about trying to work together on that, you know, Paige fell off when it came to Dr. Greer. There were disagreements there and how things should be run. So that's just, that was kind of like the background on that. There was a lot of discussion. There was a lot of, and that that's a good example of some things that happened that people never hear about, you know, whether you have these meetings, you have these email exchanges and there's a lot of ideas thrown around and there's a lot of, I guess you could say, proposals thrown together to try to push forward a something significant, right? That can be a game changer. And that's one of those

things that I had never really spoken about publicly before, but there were a lot of meetings, and I was involved with the meetings, just kind of lending a voice, just kind of lending an opinion on some things that could be looked for, could be asked for. I was never really signed on to anything. They actually did try to get me to sign an NDA at one point in order to continue with the consultations. And that's when I stepped off. I said, I'm not here to sign any NDAs that would compromise me to where I wouldn't be able to, I didn't feel like, or I felt like at that moment, again, this is going back three years. So some of these things are coming back to me as I'm talking about it.

But when I was presented with the idea of signing an NDA to work more closely on this project, and I thought, you know what, that's not for me. That's going to make me feel like I'm compromised to the point where I won't be able legally to, you know, talk about some things that maybe I feel like are important to talk about in this space. And if I, and I didn't want that. So that's when I stepped away at that moment. And there are times where any time where I don't talk about something intentionally, I'm not legally bound by that. And I never want to be legally bound in a situation where, you know, I can't talk about something. If I feel like I can't, quote unquote, can't talk about something, it's because

it's out of a sense of morality in the current sense of a project that is a little bit sensitive where if I talk about it, it can compromise the project that's being worked on behind the scenes. And I can say that there are things like that that are happening behind the scenes. And there are things that I'm not talking about because I don't want to compromise, you know, different conversations that are happening behind the scenes. But I'm not legally bound in any way. Again, that's just a sense of, hey, it would be dumb for me to say something because it's going to screw things up. that's where I'm at with stuff and that's where I want to keep it.

And that's why I fell off when it came to, you know, trying to help out with any cases that were being brought or any type of, you know, gathering of materials or conversations that I can help with to bring about these cases that they were trying to do. So all of that fell apart. And that is something that I had never spoken about until today. And so I wanted to throw that out here today for the first time three years later. And what better time to do it than celebrating the five-year anniversary. Hello, I hadn't mentioned that yet here today, but the official five-year anniversary of UAP has actually come and gone.

The first episode of UAP aired July 2, 2021 with myself and our old friend Karen Curtis. And it's amazing to look back on that now five years later. My gosh, I couldn't even imagine my wildest dreams where this show would have taken me in the places I've gone, the conversations that I've had, the people that I've met, you know, being brought in on stuff like that and things now that, you know, maybe one day, hopefully soon I'll be able to talk about the conversations I've been brought in on and efforts that I've been able to try to help with. Never in my wildest dreams or the audience that I've been able to generate, you know, for everyone who's been able to come in and be a part of this adventure here as we've had the conversations

that we've had on the show. millions and millions of downloads later, five years later, I never would have expected that. When I started this five years ago, it was just a fun thing I wanted to do because I was interested in the topic, and I thought the stories were super interesting. And I thought maybe some other people would find them interesting as well. And I'm so happy that you have found it interesting enough to stick around for five years. It's an incredible journey, again, that I never would have thought would have taken me here five years later, where I was still doing this with you, and now being a part of this community.

where, you know, I'm sticking around. And that's not an easy thing to do. A lot of people come and go in this space, and I'm really happy that's, I've been able to do that here for five years. And who knows how long it lasts, but however long it lasts, I'm happy and privileged. I feel very privileged and mostly just honored to be a part of this conversation now for the past five years. So thank you for that. And here's to more. Let's see how long we can keep this going.

I hope for a long, long time where I'm involved. this with you and for you to be a part of this conversation and maybe get to actual disclosure one day and help to bring these things about. That is the goal here on UAP. But I guess happy five-year anniversary to us here on UAP and thank you for being a part of it and helping me get to this point. Now, a little bit more than five years in since we started on July 2nd and here we are July 9th. It was also World UFO Day. Happy World UFO Day at that point. And yesterday was Roswell Day on July 8th. So happy Roswell Day.

A lot of anniversaries, a lot of things to celebrate being back here now to start off a new run of UAP episodes after that long break after a long vacation. But with all that being said, I'll let you chew on everything else that we spoke about there on that episode on that conversation there with Page. There's a lot to take in, a lot to really consider. Again, like I said, to start a lot of new things. Some things that I wouldn't really normally bring up specifically here on the show, but I thought it would be. different to kind of do that, to kind of mix it up and try to, you know, wrap it all together here today. And of course, with Paige's own personal experiences, I mean, my goodness, it's hard to even try to comprehend some of those things. I don't know how to take some of that, you know,

when it came to, like, her name being searched, the different parts of the world on specific dates that meant something to her in her life. I guess we can try to catch up on that at some point and try to figure out what that might mean. But, yeah, I guess, I, I guess, again, incredible to try to, you know, kind of consider all this and tie it all together. And hopefully that was something that we were able to do here today together on this episode. So thank you for taking this journey with us. And I look forward to coming back again soon. You know, maybe you have more conversations in the future about MK Ultra and how it all ties together.

Because there's obviously a bigger picture there about things and the way they work when it comes to government-run programs. And I think that was kind of the main idea here today in tying all. those things together. But coming up next week here on the show, bringing back again an old friend Dean Aliotto, filmmaker, director in the UAP documentary space. He's got a new film out that. And I honestly, I cannot wait for you to hear this episode. I mean, I'm not even like trying to hype anything up or anything like that. Like, I cannot wait for you to hear this. He and I, we actually recorded it yesterday, as you hear this right now with this episode with Page here on July 9th. He and I spoke yesterday and recorded about an hour interview. He was awesome.

And the film is awesome. It's called the Experiencers, full disclosure. And he did this whole documentary talking to experiences old and new. You what I mean by that is? Like, he spoke about the famous Betty and Barney Hill case. He spoke to Travis Walton. But then he also spoke to people that you've never heard of before, that I've never heard it before.

Everyday people, which I really think that's an important thing. And you know that's something that I've tried to do here this year. I've made a conscious effort to try to bring people on here every day. experiencers to tell their stories and get those things out there. That way it's not just, you know, the big names, so to speak, in the UAP community. There are real everyday people who have these experiences and that's something that Dean focused on in his new film and we spoke about during our conversation. An absolutely awesome conversation that I can't wait for you to hear next week here on

UAP. We touch on some really, really cool stuff that I'm really looking at. forward to you hearing. And so much more as well. I mean, I'm having conversations to bring a lot of people on here to UAP. So stick around. Be sure to tune in. Continue to follow along on social media at UA Podcast 850 on social media outlets and through YouTube at UAP podcast to search that. And continue, of course, to download and subscribe to the show. Just search UAP wherever you get your podcasts. And then feel free to send me any messages on all those. outlets as well. I'll always try to get back to you there too. So until next time, it is Stephen

Diener here saying thank you so much again for everything and for all of the support. Truly, it means the world to me. So thank you so much. So until next time, it is Stephen Diner here saying be well. Thank you. We'll talk again soon right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast.