UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 215 "The Experiencers" & Their Tales of the Unbelievable

Episode Date: July 15, 2026

Stephen Diener is joined by filmmaker, Dean Alioto to explore his new work that covers firsthand interviews with some of the most famous, and not so famous, alien abduction cases. How did two different people have the same dream and where did it lead them? This and so much more is explored here... See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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to UAP. Stephen Dean are back with you here, as always, on the Unidentified Alien podcast, episode number 215. And I'm looking forward to today because we get to bring in a friend of the show here,

and someone that you'll hear me say as we start to, we were actually supposed to speak a couple months ago at contact in the desert, but since I wasn't able to go last minute there, we had to cancel our in-person interview, but I'm happy to bring him back on today. And that is Dean Aliotto.

He's a filmmaker. He's a director. Does a really great job. one of the more well-known directors within the, you know, kind of like UAP's filmmaking space. Of course, James Fox is right up there. And Dean Aliotto is right there with him as well. He's done some incredible work in the past. And right now, with his new film that's out right now, the Experieners, full disclosure.

It's really good. And he was talk about it here in this interview. I was actually, he was nice enough to send me the screener for it. And it's out right now on Prime and on Apple. So if you want to check it out, the experiencer's full disclosure where it's just, man, it captivates you like from the start. He did such a good job on this. So we talk about what he mentions here in the film with Betty and Barney Hill

with Travis Walton. He has interviews with him. But also, and maybe even more importantly, because those are stories that have been covered, but he's able to cover them in a new way with like playing the therapy tapes, like the, like actually hypnotic regression therapy tapes that they used that that came from the therapy sessions with Betty and Barney Hill. I had never heard those before, and he had those in the film about when it came to their abduction

back in 1961. So we heard that, and we talk about that here during the episode, but as well as some other lesser-known abduction cases with, like, actual real-life experiencers. And that's something that I've tried to do here on the show this year as well, is bring on real-life people, not just the stories that we all know, who are real-life people as well, whether it's Travis Walter or Betty and Barney Hill.

Those are just the famous stories. When we say real-life people, we talk about your neighbor, your, you know, cashier at the grocery store. People that just everyday walk of life never know what they've gone through in their lives, but somebody somewhere has these experiences, whether it's sightings, abduction cases,

close encounters, maybe told someone in their family or maybe never told anybody at all in their lives. And he came across those people in this film as well. So we kind of tie it all together here in this. You're going to hear some really, really fascinating stories and kind of comes together with talk about, you know, past lives, shared dreams, and whether or not these experiments that happen during abduction cases might tie back to something that is a very tangible and sensible explanation.

And so what I also want to do, before we get into it, was play the trailer for this film. Dean sent me the trailer. He gave me permission. He actually asked if I could use it in this episode. I said, yeah, you know what? I think that actually would fit well. So I'm going to play part of the trailer here as well before getting to the interview. So you can kind of gauge what I'm talking about here and what we are going to be discussing.

So here's the trailer right now for the. experiences full disclosure this film here from Dean Aliotto listen to this I just thought it was a dream didn't really think anything of it but apparently it's not common to have identical dreams with siblings they took us and they hurt us it's not easy to talk about that was the greatest fear I've ever experienced what do you remember from that moment on when I regained consciousness I didn't know where I was I felt like I was dying. There's something profoundly important going on here. I've never seen anything like this before.

I find them compelling and I find them believable. They seem to pick people who are particularly strong, stable, open-minded. I'm an experiencer. I'm an experiencer. I had experiences. We put it all together here in this episode. Really, really fascinating, compelling conversations that I think you're going to enjoy listening to and taking part in today during this episode of UAPs.

So here is myself and director, Dean Aliotto right now on UAP. Enjoy. Well, I'm excited for this because we were supposed to talk a couple months ago and it didn't work out, but we're talking out. Dean Aliotto, director, filmmaker, friend of the show, and I'm happy to have you back on here on UAP. Thanks for coming back onto the show, Dean. Stephen, it's wonderful to be back, ma'am.

Yeah, and I referenced, you know, we were supposed to talk a little while back. because we were going to talk at Contact in the Desert. And I think everybody who listens to the show knows the story by now. I had to cancel. Some family things came up and I couldn't go. So that was a bummer. But I'm happy to bring you on now because, and maybe, I don't know, maybe even worked out better this way because we can have like a real long-form discussion.

Contact in the Desert is a lot going on. You know, it's just a lot of moving pieces. Yeah, I don't know because at Contact in the Desert, I kind of peaked. I felt like that was the apex of my. my whole career and everything and we missed it. Let's try to bring, I don't know. No promise it. Yeah, we'll try to bring the magic back.

But it's great to have you back. You know, you've done a great work, of course, with different films in this space, alien perspective, parts one and two. We've spoken about those in the past when you were here on the show. And now you have a new film that's out right now on Prime and on Apple. It's the experiencers, full disclosure. And I'm really happy that,

You made this for a few reasons. We're going to get into all those here. But number one being, I know you've had other people tell you this, you were able to focus, which I try to do this too on this show when I can, when you're able to focus on the real life experiencers and actually talk to the people who are experiencing things or who have experienced things. And you get these firsthand accounts. So before we get into kind of what's in here,

because by the way, I describe this to you as if my, official review, which is this is a page turner. If I can equate this to a book, this is like, you want to keep going, you don't want to put this down. It's really, really good. And I can say that firsthand from watching it. I'm not all the way through yet, but I just want to put that out there. But what did inspire you? What was your inspiration for this one now to put this film out there? Well, initially, this was going to be a four-part series called the Alien Perspective. and I had edited all of them together, and then we let it sit because you have to. Especially if you're editing your own stuff, you need to let it sit and get some distance.

And that's what I did and came back to it like a month or so later and looked at it. And my partner, Ali, and I just looked at it. And it was pretty evident that the pacing of it, like the first two episodes was terrific and that encompassed from NASA to looking at at possible exotic off-world material, that felt like it was his own thing. And then all of a sudden there was this, you know, going full on into experiencers' abductions. And it was screaming to be its own thing.

And when we got these two sisters and they came up, these two young women, that it had possibly something, then it broke off. And that's when this became a full-length thing. And then the struggle was, how do I contain it all into one movie? Because I consulted on the phenomenon, which for me, James Fox's movie is like, if anyone says to me that they're, you know, UFO curious, I go start with the phenomenon. And then it's like the Encyclopedia Britannica of the, you know, top hit cases, right?

Yeah. And so the goal was to have this be the same thing for the experiencers, where we wouldn't not, we wouldn't just take a look at the two new cases, which today people don't, you know, they usually go to the standards, the classics. But we did go back and we looked at the classics, but the goal was to do that in a way that was fresh we hadn't seen before. As an example, we've got the Barney and Betty Hill story, which you really have to start there because that was the first public acknowledgement that, hey, there's this thing going on called abductions. It was 1961. The event took place, but it wasn't until 1964, 65 that actually came up. So what we did different is we took the actual audio of the Barney and Betty Hill regression tapes.

Right. Hypnotherapy. And then we animate what they were describing. And we have world class editor. And so we do things that you haven't seen before. And we focus in on certain things that for me are always. missed little nuances, little details. And so it was kind of covering some of these classic cases and something new, but also

looking at and going, okay, with a Harvard professor, a Carnegie Mellon professor and someone out of Montana Tech, what does this look like now? Now let's take empirical evidence and let's start comparing and see how it stacks up compared to what it was like, say, in the 70s, 80s or 90s even. Yeah. I want to unpack all of that. So let's, I guess we'll get comfortable here because a lot of that has really stuck with me here since, you know, watching the film before we got to speak here today. And I guess I'll start back. I do want to talk about the sisters. And I'm not going to give away too much for anybody who hasn't seen it. We're just going to, you know, touch on these things. So you know what to expect. You know what's in here because I don't want to give any spoilers. But one of the things that really struck me, just kind of going back to Betty and Barney Hill, you talk about the regression tapes.

And regression therapy has been one of those things, of course, through hypnosis, has been one of those things that has always been really, really intriguing to me because you're able to use this technique. Because I think that's one of those things that people still look at today, which just my opinion here, I think it's an unfair stigma on hypnotherapy. You can be used for a lot of things. And really all it is is just science, if you really break it down to its deepest core, it's just working with what we know about the brain and what the brain is capable of. And these professionals are very good at it. And they're able to unearth these, you know, memories that are buried. And they did that with Benny and Barney Hill. And like you said, you played those tapes.

And I got to tell you, when you played those tapes and you did the animation like you were just talking about, Dean, I had full body chills. I'm like, oh, my gosh, listening to this, listening to Betty and Barney in conjunction with the animation, it was like it places you there. And it really did, like you're saying, kind of put a new spin on this. For me, it really brought to life a case in Benny and Barney Hill that if you're into the topic, then you're very, very familiar with that. It brought new life into that topic. So I just, I just wanted to throw that out there for anybody who's getting ready to watch this. Very well done on that, on that moment. But what, what stood out to you as well? I mean,

because when you're making this, and I can speak from this from a, creative perspective as well. You think you know everything. And then as you're doing it, you're like, whoa, I did not know about this. So even on a case like Benny and Barney Hill, what stood out to you when you were working on that? Where you were like, wow, okay, this was new to me too. You know, it's tough. When you make a movie, you put everything in and then you step back and you take stuff out,

then you step back and you put more things in. And it gets dialed in eventually. And so it there was so much in here. I mean, literally like the trailer as an example. The trailer was really tough because the trailer, you want to rebrand what the experiencer's experience is. And so, which is why I kicked you the trailer. So you can see this is not your, you know, your parents, you know, UFO documentary about

people abducted. that's gone. This is a whole new thing that for me kept pulling me deeper and deeper, you know, into this. And I got to say that Yvonne Smith, who is the hypnotherapist in the movie, and she's been at this, she studied, she's with Dr. John Mack, with Bud Hopkins, even David Jacobs. Also, she did past life stuff with, I believe, Michael Newton or Monroe. And so she was the gateway. She invited me after I went to my first UFO convention because of that film that I made, the McPherson tape, she invited me to go to an experiences support group.

And so I went there and it knocked me on my butt because I had all these preconceived ideas. There was going to be people who were going to be full of it and other people that were going to be just having, you know, maybe some type of issues. And out of the 12 or 15 people that were there, it was terrifying because not one of them came off as anything but legit. So that got me going, okay, what this is, this is insane. There needs to be something that's updating this because this is still going on. And a lot of people think that this is not going on, that this has stopped.

specifically like the hybrid program that it's over and it's like no uh-uh none of the evidence bores that out it's still happening so that's what kind of pulled me in was going to this experience or support group yeah wow i mean and you're so right and i'm glad you put that out there that um you know it's there's more to it than benny barney hill there's more to it than Travis walton who is also covered in the film who you got to interview in this film as well you know those are the ones that they've made the movies about i know i don't know if it's still happening, but I believe former President Obama was making a movie or

make a document, or was a producer in a documentary about Betty and Barney Hill that was going to come out on on Netflix. So those are, those are the famous ones that, you know, the casual observer in the UFO community is definitely familiar with. But like you said,

these things, these aren't unique things. Those are the ones we just know about. And there are people who are still experiencing these things who are not comfortable talking about. it's not just something from the 40s 50s and 60s the 70s it's it's something that's been happening a couple years ago seen things that are happening now um and one of the things that you talk about in this dean is or one of your experiences anyway talk about is something

that I've always been really interested in and that is the lineage aspect hey guys we'll get back to that in just a second but I wanted to kind of continue something here that I've been talking to you about now for a little while and that is my experiences with Shopify you know when you go to start a business, the worst thing is, the hardest part is trying to figure out where to begin. You have this idea, but how do you make that come to life? Here's the great thing with Shopify. Everything you need is right there ready for you from day one.

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I've always seen the common threads here. It starts a childhood and they're usually not the first ones in their families that have happened to. What do you make out of that? And it looks like you kind of unravel the same thread during the film. Well, it would make sense. I mean, if you think about it from the aliens perspective. It would make sense that you would stick with one family because you know the physiology of that family, the DNA, the genes and everything. It would make sense that you would track along with that.

But whatever this is, for lack of a better word, a campaign, if you will, in the abductions, whatever is ultimately the final agenda of this, it would seem like it would be a way to streamline it and be able to chart whatever's been. being done. And so the thing is, again, there's been other documentaries, some of them really good, in this space, not for a while, though, but what they'll do is they'll say, this is how it is, and here it is. And they'll give it to you and they'll say, this is all that you get on the menu. You know, here's your salad and you only get a thousand island. Don't even start with a blue cheese on me. I don't want to hear that. This is it. The goal here was to say, we don't still know in certain areas what it is and what the agenda is. So we're going to look at all the possibilities.

And you as an audience gets to say this one, this one here resonates with me. Yeah. Because as Travis Walton says in the documentary, I'm constantly being confronted with people who claim to have all the answers. And he says they don't. And that's by design. There was something that is being withheld. I mean, it would seem to make sense that they would just come out and say,

here's why we're doing this, because our genetic makeup, we need. or whatever. But instead, they wrap themselves up in an enigma, really. And then it's up to us to try to decipher. And so I spent, you know, close to 10 years trying to decipher this and give the audience the best information. This is the latest and greatest, and this is what what we feel it possibly could be. So, yeah, it's, you know, looking at it from all these different people's perspective. Right. You know, where you have, you know, someone who works as a GMC on an assembly line, someone who was an assistant attorney general.

Yeah. I mean, it's all walks of life. And I'll tell you something else. We were back east for the holidays, right, just after the 4th of July. And so we're being driven by this driver and we're in the car for like two hours. And so at some point, the driver, you know, we're friendly passengers. We're, you know, having a conversation here. And he says, what do you do?

And I go, I do independent films, but I also do documentaries. And he's like, what do you do with them on? And I'm like, here's a limit's test. Are they going to go, oh, God, you know, and pull over and go get the hell out of my car or what? And so I tell him about it. And he says, you know, when I was a kid and I'm like, get out of here. And this happens all the time. And he says, when I was a kid, there would be this blue figure that would come

and would sit down and we would talk about my day and what's going on in my life and I don't know how this figure would know everything about me. Wow. And I told my mother about it. And this guy is, you know, he's just a real normal sweet guy. And by the way, he's black. And I only mention that because I see some comments sometimes where people go, are there, and in the movie we have Barney, Barney Hill, who's black. But they're like, is it, is it, you know, Hispanic?

Asians is across multiple. It's multiple. Yeah. So anyway, he says, yeah, so he says to me, and he's really young here, he's like maybe seven or eight years old, and he tells his mother. And his mother is the only one that believes him. And she will occasionally say throughout his childhood,

hey, have you ever seen them again? So that led him and us to believe that the mother was also experiencing this, and she was just gauging. She didn't want to share it, but she was going to be there for him as a support. port, you know, for this. And so this here's a random guy. It doesn't get more random than that.

Who's had, you know, these, these experiences. So who knows how big this is? That's really interesting. And it's something that it speaks to what we were talking about, right? This isn't a fable from long ago. These are things that are still happening to everyday people. And that's why it's so important to point out that, you know, that's probably something that that guy never imagined he would tell anybody.

that day. But because you ended up bringing it up, now all of a sudden he's sharing his story and he's comfortable and he literally said, I've only talking to my mother about this. There you go, right. My son doesn't, no one else knows, but he felt comfortable in the confines of this car to tell us this. So how many more people are out in the world who are just sitting on this thing and, you know, maybe it's all the Uber drivers or it's all the, uh, the motor drivers out there is actually, there's going to be a setting in Uber where you can choose an experience or be your driver. Abductee or non-experiancer. No, that's an incredible story too.

I mean, you know, some might call it a coincidence. Others might call it that was supposed to happen at that moment. You know, I don't know, but it's something that, wow, it's really something to consider that you get that in that moment. And actually, if I could just relate something personal to that, too, that happens to me a lot where if I'm talking to somebody that, say, getting my haircut. You know, the barber is making small talk, oh, you know, what do you do? And I tell them. And you, I'm just like you, I always kind of have, even though we're big on, you know, get rid of the stigma, people should be able to talk about it. This is something that is, you know, a real discussion.

There's still that thing in the back of your mind where like, should I say what I do? You know, is this going to be like, oh, wow, you talk about aliens? And every single time, I have some, the response is, oh, wow, yeah, you know, I really believe in that stuff. And this is actually, I've seen this and they've seen that. I'm like, and it never fails. So that's interesting that it happened to you as well. Yeah. And it's our job.

In a way, I look at it as our job or my job. It just became this. It wasn't intentional that, you know, the theme of the film is empathy. And it's interesting because that's the main theme of the new Spielberg film was empathy. Right. And like we have Leslie Kane saying one of the main reasons why I work in this space is the experiencers. you know, giving them a voice and having empathy for these people.

Yeah. And Dave Foley, who's also in our documentary, he says, you know, I, he said, I look back and as a comedian, he says, you know, we had no problem making fun of people who claim to have been abducted. And he said, and looking back, now I realize that some of these people are probably people I knew, but it was just something that you just did because it was like an easy target. Yeah. And now I feel like I can talk about it in an intelligent way and a grounded way.

And if they're not receptive to it, they're not receptive. I'm not here to, you know, convert anyone. This is an Harri Krishna experienceer. This is just science that we're looking at. And the statistics are way in favor of this happening as opposed to this, you know, not happening, whether it's the world. Yeah, it's incredible stuff. Again, it's the experiencer's full disclosure. You can find it now on primary.

in Apple. Nadine, I want to jump back to the sisters real quick that are in this movie. Again, real life experiencers, they're not someone that you've seen at a conference, someone that you read about in a book. These are people that you came across in the journey of

making your films here. It's, you know, as far as, wasn't planned, as far as I know. Like, these are people that you ended up coming across. And these sisters again, not to give too much away, but they, they had strange experiences as kids and these shared experiences

and they always wondered what it was and they end up going into the hypnotherapy into regression and all of a sudden they start having all these memories start flying back just like Betty and Barney Hill and during their regression therapies what surprised you about that where you end up coming across again family sisters are only about a year apart as you find out in the film what surprised you about that when you ended up coming across them and what kind of stuck with you about their story and how it related to the other things that you ended up finding out. All right.

I'm going to fail at this answer. I'm sorry, Stephen. I fail all the time in my questions, so it's okay. Yeah, I mean, my SAT scores approve that I'm not good with questions and tests sometimes. Everything surprised me. I mean, the way that this came about, you know, I'm editing the documentary and then my assistant editor and our co-producing. or Craig Jackson, who's a musician. And he produces artists on the side, does their albums and, you know, produces them, mixes them, et cetera.

And he was working with this young woman, maybe 26 years old. And she says, oh, so what are you working on? Because she knows that he works in independent films and documentaries as well. And he says, oh, I'm doing this really fun thing. It's about, you know, abductions and stuff. and it's really interesting. And she says, oh, that's funny. My sister and I, my older sister, we shared the same dream a couple times.

And he says, what would you say? And she goes, yeah, twice. And he calls me up and says, hey, Dean, I just had this session with this, you know, this young woman named Skylar. And she said this thing that happened. And I said, standby. and I called Yvonne Smith. And I said, hey, Yvonne, you know, the hypnotherapist who's been at this as long as anyway. And I said, is this normal?

And she says, hey, Dean, no, that's a flag. And I go, okay. It doesn't necessarily mean it's a flag for abductions. This could be a flag for anything, but it is a flag. And I said, so just so I understand, sisters, brothers, even if they're twins, they don't share the same. And she goes, no, no, that doesn't, they don't share an unconscious mind. And I go, got it. Okay, hold on.

Stand by. And so I go back to Craig and I go, Craig, see if she's willing to be recorded because I think it would be fantastic if we could put her under for the first time and possibly her sister and keep them separate. Otherwise, I don't want to do this. I want to keep this, you know, clean and controlled experiment, if you will. Yeah. And so she agreed to it. And so what you see is her going under hypnosis for the first time ever in her life. And she's got a monkey brain like mine.

It's always going, going never, you know, not always, you know, munching on something. And so she doesn't think she can do it and stuff. And so the reason why I put Yvonne inducing hypnosis is because I wanted all of the tropes, the BS tropes that have been out there about this. Because there's two types of hypnosis. There's the one that like Chris Ramsey does, and we, Chris and I have talked about this, where it's the parlor joke, you know, where someone says, you know, bark like a dog, that type of stuff. Right. And that's a whole different thing.

Then there is what Yvonne does. And you guys tell me if this is what your version of hypnosis is. Okay. Here's what she does. I want you to relax. I want you to imagine you're walking down these stairs. And as you're walking down, you're getting deep. and deeper into relaxation and calmness.

All right. And then walking through, does a countdown and then says, okay, let's go back to that date that you wanted to go to. What's happening? And that's it. The rest of it is the experiencer or the person who's under, you know, which again, when you say under, that sounds like you're under someone's control.

And we make a specific point to say that isn't the case. Right. It's a relaxation technique. That's all it is that is focused. And then things start coming and then her job is to just, you know, get clarity and say, okay, so you said that you were, there was a light outside, you know, type of thing. She's not going to say, oh, light outside. So do you see the UFO?

Right. You know, she's not going to go there. She's going to say, well, describe the light. So you will see that this isn't anything that has done in a manipulative fashion. It's in a way that's saying, all right, let's partner together and see what's there. What are you experiencing? And what she experienced was beyond what we expected. So to say what, as I surprised me, while we're shooting, we've got two cameras.

I've got a camera on a crane above her and a camera dolling back and forth and another one that's fixing her. And I'm looking back and forth at the other cameraman. And I'm going, are you recording? Are you getting this? Are you getting the audio? Do we have it? Because that becomes my biggest concern that something is going to, you know, get jacked out. and then I'm just going to be crying that we can get any of it.

But luckily, we got every single frame. Yeah, you did. And it's powerful, actually. It's probably the best way I can put it because you're there. It feels like you're kind of in the room with her because she's, you know, no pun intended, experiencing that for the first time, like you said. And, you know, she's shocked at the results. When she, you know, kind of comes out of the therapy.

And she's like, well, that, you know, that didn't go the way I planned. but in a positive way because of the things that they found out. And again, a cliffhanger for me because now it's coming up where her sister is going to go as well. So I'm waiting to see the rest of this movie. I almost want to end the interview so I can go back and watch the rest of the documentary. But I'll get to see it later today. Hey, guys, we'll get back to that in just a second. But I wanted to kind of continue something here that I've been talking to you about now for a little while.

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So here's what to do. Start your free trial today at Shopify.com slash UAP. That's Shopify.com slash UAP to start your free trial today. But no, again, just it was very, very well done in that aspect to be able to bring in everyday people. And again, how that came about almost like with your Uber driver. It was just one of those things. It wasn't planned, something that came up. And you realize, wow, this person who I didn't even know existed is having these experiences.

And it's, you know, maybe going to resonate with someone who's just like her, just like her sister, who said, you know, I had these strange dreams as a kid. Never could understand them. But it may have actually been some type of close encounter or abduction or whatever it might be. What do you make out of, Dean, the similarities? And what I mean by that is one of the things. things I've always noticed is that you can go back and look at a story, whether it's Benny Barney Hill or Travis Walton or any of the other people that you interviewed in this documentary. And they all talk about some of the same details, whether it's the bright lights, whether it's

the type of beings, how the beings looked, how they felt, what they're, you know, heard in their head as far as telepathy. What do you make out of some of that as you come across it in your own, you know, kind of investigations and create? of your films where you're like, man, these people are all saying the same stuff. Like, what does that mean? Well, I never want to assume anything in this field because there is as John Keel and Greg Bishop likes to make sure that it's part of the conversation. There is high strangeness that comes like a blue bean.

So like my partner was with me in the car, they were traveling with this driver, and she had no idea about the blue bean, except in Whitley Streber's movie, they talk about, you know, blue beans. But she didn't know that that was something. She wasn't as aware of that. And so I had been, in fact, I was at this art show that was done art by experiencers. And someone had talked about that, and I think even drawn some stuff. So I look at those things, you know, because there's all these nuances of what people are seen. And some of it is screen memories. And so you have to go a little, you know, scratch a little deeper.

And other parts are things that are like, okay, we now have a thread that we can put on our detective board where we can reverse and go, okay, here's the, you know, the aliens in the middle. And then here are these threads coming out. Why are they doing this? What is the procedure about? why are they taking samples, this and that? And so with the sisters, what was interesting is they had two dreams. And each of them, we were going to go and see whatever they were going to land on, right? And the other sister, the older sister, she's not a musician, she's corporate.

So we have both sides of the, you know, someone who's representing, you know, socially, someone who's an artist and someone who's a business person. So you've got both of those brains going. Well, Skyler went to the first dream and Kaylee went to the second dream. So they didn't go to the first one and they didn't both go to the same one. They went to the second one. And so that provided a whole other dimension to it without giving it away. And so it was, you know, we were not going to be biased at all. We were just going to say, we're just fact finding.

We just want to get this information. At the end, we can disseminate, you know, what it all is. But yeah, that was, yeah, you can't plan these things. And that's part of it. It becomes a sporting event. You know, you don't plan for someone's, okay, here at this point, I really need you to make that three-pointer. Right.

Can you do that? It's not. My job is to get the hell the way. And then when we're done, take a look at it and say, okay, this is what we have. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. No, and it's incredible really because, and that's really what makes it, um,

That's something that's always struck me, just really in my own world here, making UAP. I experience a lot of that same thing. It's like, okay, let me just kind of dive in and see where it goes. And that's usually where you get the best results. And I think you found that. One thing that struck me, too, Dean, is where you talk to one of the experiencers, and he talks about his abduction experience involving military members on craft, on board on the craft that he's on.

And I bring that up because I've heard stories like that before from other people, even other people I've spoken to directly where they say, oh, you know, yeah, I remember seeing a doctor working alongside this alien being while I'm on the table. And then you have one of the experiences in your film saying, these military members seemed like they were working in conjunction with the alien graze and the insectoids that are on this craft. and then he starts talking about implants.

So again, without going too much into it there, but can you tell us about that part of the interview, if you may, without giving too much away and what struck you from there? Because that was fascinating. Sure. I wasn't terribly familiar with the Terry Lovelace story when I interviewed him. And some of these interviews were done over the span of these 10 years, and he was in an early interview.

And it was riveting because, riveting because it was really for him because he was in the military at the time. So imagine this. You're in the Army. You're taking aboard this craft. And you see likewise, you know, professionals. And they're there. And he talks about how he was struggling to get their attention to say, hey, what the F's going on here, guys. Yeah.

And none of them would look in his direction. None of them would. So his experience happened in June of 1977 at Devil's Den Park. And then Closer Encounters comes out six months later. And he had seen, I think maybe in the trailers and stuff, he hadn't seen the movie all the way through. But in the movie, as you may recall, you've got these military guys that are associated with this operation in red flight suits. And then in the movie, they're wearing, or in Terry Love Laces, the documentary, they're wearing tansuits, but they're all wearing the same thing and they're all looking young in their 20s and

stuff. And it's just another day at the office for these guys that are working with these beans. And so, you know, it's tough because that story has come up before again and again. And so, again, I'm handpicking these cases that represent different spectrums of this so that we can have maybe look at the full canvas of this. But that shocked me. And I was, I felt like him because I wanted to say, well, can't you, you know, weren't you able to to see, you know, did any of them have an accent or this or that? And, and he was just far enough that, that he wasn't able to, to get it, to glean any more information. So it's, I don't know, it's another piece of the puzzle

that you have to put on the board. Yeah, it is. And, and, I was actually, you say you were shocked. Like what, what specifically, of course, besides the obvious, right, that this idea that U.S. military members would be working with alien beings on their craft because that's just a whole shocking thought to begin with. But what specifically shocked you about that when you were listening to his story? Well, you know, I couldn't help thinking. I've been to several conventions now and conferences over the years, UAP and, um,

for lack of a better word, extraterrestrial conferences. And I'm constantly confused by the fact that if these beans were to show up and say, hey, like they have done with college students and prisoners, we've got this pharmaceutical program that we're doing. We want to test some new drugs. We're going to give you, you know, 200 bucks, whatever, you know, for this. or more, you know, would you, you know, can you come and do this and volunteer to do this thing? And some people volunteer to do it for no pay. Well, the community, the UFO community that I've

gone to, the alien community, if you will, they are very, very much open to having that experience. And so I keep scratching my head and going, whoever is operating this doesn't get how to galvanize people in the way that, in other words, if you were to say to everyone at all the conferences I've gone to, just the ones I've gone to and said, hey, we need volunteers to do this program and to be taken aboard a craft. And we're going to do certain things, and here's the list of, you know, whatever. But you can ask questions and we can interact and this and that. And you can, you know, you can basically for that duration, have a relationship with the bean from another dimension, from the future, from another planet, whatever.

I would imagine that there would be a line going from one, you know, side of a, you know, a town to another, at least, a city to another, maybe longer. Yeah, probably. People would be curious to say, hey, let's do it. Heck, I might even say yes. Yeah, and it's under the right circumstances, right? Yeah. But that's not what's being done.

These people are being taken. And there's a big question that, you know, we talk about, which is, are they being taken by force? Or is this something that was agreed upon? Because we hear this time and time again. When an experiencer is taken especially early on, they say, you have no right to do this. And what do the non-human intelligence being say?

Yes, we do. And so Dr. John Mack, he had this thing that he labeled dual alien identity, which is that these people, people, these experiencers, agreed to do this before they incarnate it. Again, there's a woo spectrum here, right? And that would be something that they would have come, like maybe a past life. They were from where these beings are from. And they're coming here to help. And so the question is, what is this operation? Is it helping the beings, the NHIs, or is it helping us? And there's so many aspects to this, too. I mean, you know, we,

You can try to even work on the theory. Again, you talk about someone like the more out-there theories, but you can even try to work on a theory where you say, is this some type of soldier or scientist who once lived as an alien being on a different planet who volunteered to be incarnated as a human and undergo experiments and live as a human? And they have no memory of that. I mean, I know that sounds wild. Yeah.

You know, why not put it as one of the theories? I don't know. I mean, does that make sense to you? Is that something that you've come across? Well, before I came full on back into the UFO fold, I was on my own kind of spiritual journey. And I researched past lives out of Cornell. You've got Dr. Brian Weiss and Michael Newton and tons of other people that have studied this in a classical scientific way and looked at it. And from what I gleaned from all the research that I did doing that,

it's, and again, this is a belief system that's been around longer than the Bible, you know, Buddhism and stuff talks about reincarnation. And so supposedly we reincarnate from a sole group, a grouping of 15 to 25 people, and we come here to learn certain things, to learn lessons, because the reason why we're coming here in the physical form is that this is a school. this is a where we come to evolve and so sometimes you'll do something crappy in a past life and in this life you got to pay that karma back no one gets off for free right and this is a belief system

again that's been out there and and it seems to resonate for me because I can't imagine that you come into this this lifetime and say both of your parents happen to be drug addicts you know you're a crack baby and you come in and that's your only shot at life that's that's boy that's dark. I don't know if I can go there. So I prefer to imagine that, you know, that these people are coming here to learn stuff. Maybe it's tolerance or whatever. But I remember having this meditation teacher say to us, when you see a homeless person, yes, if you can't help them, don't pity them because they might be working on some level of evolution beyond anything you can imagine. And this is part of the challenges they've put for themselves that they've set up for themselves. So getting

back to what we're talking about. When I folded that, the idea that you know that you're going to be coming into your new incarnation and you're going to have certain people that are going to be playing your father or your son or whatever, if you know all that stuff, how would you not know that you're going to be taking aboard craft? Yeah. You're going to have all these things. So that, to me, supported the idea that maybe there is a dual identity going on here. And it's not something that ever really gets talked about that I've heard in the in the main you know concert of this of this discussion and so it's time it's time to look at that because you know yeah everything needs to be kept on the table in my book no I agree with that I've always said if you know someone says they have

all the answers and they know everything then probably not someone that you should be listening to because I don't think anybody has all the answers we might have an idea we might have some good guesses But to say we have all the answers, I think, is, you know, a little bit of hubris. But to kind of actually go off of what you were saying, Dean, you know, maybe some type of like dual identity for some people. It makes me think of, again, just for the possibility's sake, for theory's sake, it actually makes me think of of someone who I spoke to here on the show. A woman named Hazel, and if you're listening to Hazel, shout out in Australia. and she's an experiencer, kind of like someone you were talking to in your film,

the everyday person. And she told me a story here about how she remembers her abduction and she remembers being on the craft and looking out the window and seeing herself in the reflection as an alien being. And so kind of going to what you're saying.

They're like, is it possible that in some cases, maybe not all, in some abduction cases, we're talking about maybe some type of reunification for people with who they were other than, you know, being brought on as some type of, you know, lab rat, maybe, which is what we're looking at in some cases. It's fascinating, man. It really is to kind of unpack all this and think about what all this could be. But that's what makes your film so interesting, is that you really do dive into all these different aspects. Yeah, it's, you'll find that you'll go around

the car to kick the tires, right? And you go, okay, I'm going to kick the front right passenger tire and do that. And I'm going to kick the back thing. And then you discover that there's more than four tires. You're like, uh, how do I, how do I get this, this theory or this thesis that I'm trying to put forward on the road when sometimes these tires are going in opposite directions? And so I think, I think that, you know, I don't know, I've talked to enough people and you've met them and you may be one of them and your listeners, I'm sure, there's going to be a big percentage of these that feel like they've never fully assimilated into the human experience. You know, they feel sometimes a little bit foreign, a little different. And these experiencers,

specifically, there is a component of that. And, you know, again, Dr. Brian Weiss out of Cornell, He's like, he's talked to tons of people who have come from other planets or maybe they were here, went to another planet, and then they're back again incarnating. And so you don't just have one or two lives apparently. You have, you know, many. Again, not to go full on into making this about reincarnation. But there is a bigger purpose going on here. And for sure. And it's been going on for decades and possibly centuries.

And so the question is, what is that? Why is this happening? And is it, again, for them or for us? But, you know, like we get into the hybrid program, which no one wants to talk about, man. No one. Yeah, that's one of those like, you know, are we really talking about, you know, hybridization of humans and alien beings? But it is, you know, look, I, I has heard this before from Eric Burleson, the conference. where he said, you know, that President Trump was briefed on his first term about the hybrid program.

So it's a conversation that's out there. And I'm with you. I think it's an important one to discuss, just like with everything else. We have to bring these things up to at least try to get the full pictures. So I mean, what did you find out about the possible hybridization that might be going on? There has definitely been a program that is a component of the, the abductions. Not every single person that has been abducted has these experiences, but the majority of them do, where either egg samples are taken, sperm is taken, stool samples are taken. And again, if I can clear up some of this, people, you know, comedians like the joke about the anal probe. Well, when we tag drug a bear, what we do is we take a device that we are going to extract. stool samples, and we're not going to give the bear a laxative and wait for it to do this. We're actually going to go in and take that sample that's in the shape that it is, and that's a part of it.

And so the quote-unquote anal probe is a stool sampling. This is what, you know, like Michael Masters, Dr. Michael Masters at a Montana Tech, that he believes because for him, it's like, this is what we do to other animals on the planet, on our planet. And so why wouldn't they do that if they're, you know, getting proper samples and everything? So the question is, again, you know, why are they doing this? Is it for them or for us, are we both? And so one of the items on the menu with this documentary is that they're us from the future. And so there's a prediction that by 2035, that half the population, or excuse me, more, the majority of the population won't be able to

procreate. You know, then you get into the hybrids. What are they, you know, how are they coming out? Are they part of society? And there's a big belief system that they are, that they're being integrated into our society. So that's interesting, though, because if we kind of meld the two together, you know, could we say just in theory that the hybridization program might be in play to, you know, like you said,

meld into society, maybe have more of that learning process going on, but also in a way where if we're talking about the future human theory and we extrapolate out, you know, a decade from now or 20 years from now where procreating is going down and populations are going down, Well, if we put that out 1,000, 2,000, 3,000 years out into the future, then is it possible, too, that hybridization of program like that would be a survival tactic, a survival technique. If these are future humans coming back and saying, okay, this is where it started to happen. Let's go ahead and start to fix this a little bit now and let that play out over time.

So we bring the human race back. I mean, does that make sense? Yes and no. here's another thing. Let's throw this in here. There's two messages that the beings have passed on to humans when these NHAs have interacted with them. Do you know what they are?

No. Your technology isn't helping you. Okay. So when they showed up and started giving that message, it wasn't in the era of, say, you know, the 1800s or 1700s. Before then, they'd say technology, they would say, oh, would that be the printing press? because that was the biggest technology they had back then. So that's not helped us?

No, they're doing it now and have been doing it since the 60s, possibly before then. Some would argue that it took place once we started, you know, being able to split an atom and the hydrogen bomb, etc., which makes sense. However, I happen to think that it's not just about that. I happen to think that's about this, the smartphone. It's not helping us. I mean, we're getting all of our dopamine hits from this. And so why am I going to go out dancing, interacting, you know, as a teenager, you know, when I can get everything here. And you look at the way that teenagers interact with each other, they're side by side and they're doing this on their phone.

And they're communicating with each other as well that way. So there's a possibility that that's what they're talking about. But the second message they have is you are jacking up your planet. And what do they do to, to illustrate. illustrate this. They show a certain percentage of these experiences images of our planet decimated where trees are burnt to the ground, the skies are gray, the cities are a chaotic, you know, crumbling jungle. Where is that footage coming from that they're showing them? Is this an actual archive? Are they using AI to create this? I mean, what's going on here?

that they're saying here. And the last part of this, the most important part, why are they showing us this? Is it because we can actually change the future? And so they're concerned because they're charting, they're tracking where mankind is going. And they're trying to give us warnings. Well, you don't warn someone if they're on a train

and there's no brakes on it. It's like, well, you know, make peace with God or whatever. But there is a modicum of. hope here that we are going to get out of this that we can these are the things that that i wanted to explore and say hey you know what's going on here guys seriously because we can talk about nuts and bolts at these hearings until we're blue in the face but we're just talking about the elephant's tail what about the elephant in the room that's yeah absolutely i think that's a very fair statement is to again look at all the aspects of this and kind of you know zoom out and get this full picture

talk about what people are experiencing talk about what they're being told do you believe it don't you believe it and how does it relate to a lot of the other things that we've heard throughout in the past. So it's, it's fascinating and there's there's answers there, right? And we're just, we're just trying to gain this understanding of everything. Yeah, D&M, look, you know, this is something that's, we could talk about forever, obviously, but I'll get you out of here on this. And it was something that, just when we talk about what Dr. Michael Masters was saying, I love to have him on here

one time. If you just shoot him a text and say, hey, get on the UAP. I'd love to have him on here one time. Absolutely. Anyway, I appreciate it. But what he talks about, it makes sense, right? Again, and maybe this is one way to look at it. And maybe this is one answer. But it makes sense in the aspect of the way that we experiment on lab rats or animals and we tag animals, right? And then people are talking about getting implants. We keep track of different animals. We take all the different samples. And he's talking about it from the, you know, anthropology aspect of it and how we look back on our past selves. And he does this in the film. And maybe that's what we're doing. I feel like,

some of the answers we're supposed to have. Others were supposed to stretch to. But what is going on right now with experiencers is they are having their day. They are coming back in a big way. And at the disclosure forum that happened a few weeks ago, literally, you know, you've got Matthew Brown who comes up and says this is a component of the phenomenon and we need to bring them into it. And then who did they have speak? Whitley Strieber. He was very eloquent and brief. And he, you know, stated it. This is coming. This is the next thing. And this is the biggest bump for the disclosure that everyone wants. And the politicians is, how do they say? And I'm curious, I'm going to see how this gets delivered or spun. How do they say, yes, all this stuff is true.

They're taking people, Americans and Europeans, and there's nothing we can do to stop it. Yep. So showing me a dead alien or showing me a craft and everything isn't going to revolutionize and freak out the country and people at the end of the day stuff to go back to work. But to say this thing is going on and validate it and there's nothing we can do about it, that's going to be a pause. At the end of the day, we still have to go to work, stuff to pay for our kids, you know, lunch and, you know, food and everything and the house overhead.

So just rip the bandage off, I guess, but it doesn't matter. It's coming. It is coming. And it's just starting. Outstanding. Again, go get it. Go see it. There's so much to discover in this film.

So much that I haven't even finished yet, but I will once we're done here, Dean. It's the experiencers, full disclosure, find it on Prime, find it on Apple. And check out Dean's other work, too, because you have a lot of great films out there. And I always love bringing you on here. so much to discover, like I said, so much to talk about. And that's one of the things I love is that we can encompass all of these different theories into the discussion because they all make sense in their own way. And that's what you did in the film.

So, Dean, again, I know I said where to find the film, but how can everybody follow what you've done, what you're doing, and keep in touch with you? Sure. So, yeah, the film is an Amazon and Apple TV. I'm on Instagram under my name, Dean Alligoto. I'm also on Twitter, aka X, under my name,

and those are the two best places. I'm also on YouTube. So if you go to YouTube and you do my company, which is captured pictures, if you subscribe there, you'll get updates of everything that's going on. And there is another documentary that is going to be coming soon as well.

But those are the best places to connect. Awesome. Well, I guess when I piqued my answer, real quick. Can you tell us, give us a little hint on what the new documentary will be about? I cannot tell you that it's about Dr. John Mack. Okay. It is not, okay. You cannot tell us that it is about Dr. John Mack. Gotcha. Message heard. Dea Liotto, thank you so much for coming on here to UAP. Always a pleasure to have you on, man, and look forward to having you on again in the future.

Thanks a lot. Thank you, Stephen. Appreciate it. Hey, guys. So I'm going to get back into the show in just a minute, but if you'll allow me, I wanted to get something a little bit more personal here, and that is my age. Yes, I have just turned 40, and with that in mind, being a now officially middle age, I have realized that it is harder for me to stay in shape. I work out, I exercise, I try to eat right whenever I can. But with all that in mind, I've noticed it's a lot harder to get in shape and stay in shape than it was when, let's face it, when I was younger in my 20s or even in my, you know,

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ingredients that we look for. And what's great is you get a 90-day money back. guarantees. So there's no risk. So how do you get it? Well, here's what you do. For a limited time, my listeners get 50% off for life plus free shipping and three free gifts at men go to mars.com. That's men go to mars.com for 50% off and three free gifts when you check out. And after you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. So please support my show and tell them my show sent you. Thank you again to Dean for his time for doing that. You know, taking the time out to have that conversation. Always love talking and really fascinating guy.

And I like getting his perspective too on the topic because he approaches it from a filmmaking type of position and also from a position of someone who's genuinely curious within this topic. Like you heard him talk about, he's gone to the meetings, to the experiencer meetings. He really digs into this and into the conversation in a way that, you know, maybe some other filmmakers don't. I'm not trying to call anybody out by saying that. I'm just saying as a generalized statement.

So he's really like kind of a unique guy to talk to in here because he has multiple perspectives on the conversation. So hopefully you took something away from that as well. Really, really cool. I'm glad we got to discuss all that here today. And you don't have to believe everything we spoke about. You know, I personally, I'm not going to pick it apart, but I don't believe some of the things that we spoke about, meaning, you know, just something like maybe, well, maybe I will

pick it apart. maybe some of the past life stuff is hard for me to understand or hard for me to kind of fully grasp the idea about past lives. But even though that may not fit my personal belief system, that doesn't mean that I'm not open to at least discussing it and considering, you know, is there something there? Could there be some type of truth behind that? Or if not, you know, specific truth about past lives, could it connect or to some type of other answer. That could explain something else within the phenomenon. So that's what I mean by

even if you don't fully subscribe to an idea that is spoken about in this or in any other episode, it's at least worth considering because maybe it can open up another possibility or an open door or another door that we didn't consider before that might give us some answers. The questions that we ask when it comes to, you know, the abduction topic and the UFO topic as a whole. And then, you know, the past or aliens are future selves, you know, that's, theory that Dr. Michael Masters presents that he's really kind of become famous for. And that's something that's, you know, isn't revolutionary, but it has gained more esteem over the past couple of years. And that is something that intrigues me as well. I think Joe Rogan has spoken about that before,

even on his show, where I think he's, he's kind of like subscribes to that more than anything. I think I remember hearing him talk about that, where, you know, maybe more than likely aliens are just our future selves and we're time traveling. One thing I did want to mention, actually, and I forgot to bring up in the course of the interview, and I'm glad actually I'm talking about it now because it jogged my memory. When it comes to, if you're making the argument for aliens are our future selves time traveling, it would make sense. Again, I meant to bring this up in the course of the conversation.

It would make sense if you want to tie it back to the case of Rendell Shem Forrest. If you look back, and that was actually the first episode of UAP, was when I covered Rendlesham Forest with John Burroughs and Jim Penningston, 1980 out there in England. And not to go through the entire thing now, if you forget some of the details, of course, you know, they touch the craft that they saw in the woods. They end up getting messages through binary code. They write it all down. They don't know what it is.

Years later, that binary code is then translated. and it actually had a message encoded within the binary code. And I'm going off of memory here, but essentially the message read something like, and I'm summarizing something along the lines of continued exploration for the good of all humanity. Again, something along those lines. And if that's the case, then are you talking about aliens, right,

who are exploring humanity throughout the cosmos, or was that continued exploration for the good of all humanity from humans in the future? So that's what I mean by if you look at other cases like Rendell-Shim Forrest, that points exactly too. And actually, I believe within that coded message, and I'm just remembering this now too, it starts off with year 8100 continuous exploration for the good of humanity, is the message summarized, again, off the top of my head off of memory.

And if you want to look back at that, go right ahead. you can just, you know, Google search, Rendlesham Forest, binary code message, and you'll see what I'm talking about. It's one of the things that of all the stories I've learned about and told that have been, have detailed, investigated over the years, that one really sticks out amongst many others over the years that I have covered. So when I think about that, and I connected to what we're talking about here today with Dean and what Dr. Michael Masters theorizes about the future human theory, that we are the

aliens coming back and doing these experiments on ourselves to try to save humanity, it's a theory that is worth exploring. And it's one that is tangible. It is one that makes sense in my mind. Does that mean I know or think it's true? I have no idea. I'm just like you. I love theorizing about it.

I love bringing up all the different points. I think there's good points for each theory about what we could be dealing with here. And maybe we're dealing with multiple things. I've said that before. And I think that is the most likely outcome. that we are dealing with multiple aspects here that may be tie back to one centralized truth. So I can talk about this all day, just like I did with Dean. And that's why I love doing the show here.

And it's for conversations like that, it's because it opens up all these different, you know, pathways that we can kind of explore together. And I'm glad that we can do that here today on this episode of UAP. Coming up next year on the show, though, I'm looking forward to explore. and I have this on the schedule, so I make no promises because I know how fluid the schedule can be when it comes to having on guests like this. But plan for the show here this week before the week is up is Congressman Eric Burleson. I haven't had him on here in a little while, so I've been in contact with his office and we are planned to speak this week before the end of the week. So fingers crossed, it's on the schedule.

It's on my schedule. It's on his schedule. fingers crossed. We have Eric Burleson back on here before the end of the week, and that will be the next episode of UAP. And if that is the case, it should be a barn burner because there's been a lot going on since I last spoke to him, whether it's the press conference that I was at with him, with David Grush, whether it's the event that they just had, the Disclosure Forum, with the Disclosure Foundation, with Jordan Flowers, who was on here on the show, just a few weeks ago talking about that conference. There was a lot that came out of that conference that

unfortunately I was not able to attend and so much more that's been going on. Actually, Jordan Flowers just recently talking about from the, he's been on Fox News and CBS after appearing here on UAP talking about how he's got confirmation that the U.S. government, the Department of National Intelligence, have used technology before to lure in UAPs and that Eric Burlesson was briefed on that. So that's something that I want to ask him about. There's a lot on the plate here when it comes to this discussion and tying back to Congress, tying back to Congressman Eric Burleson. So again, that's on the schedule. Fingers crossed that we are able to stick to the schedule and that something doesn't pop up that prevents us from doing that. So as long as everything goes

according to plan, Congressman Eric Burleson back on UAP here by week's end. So look forward to that. and many other updates coming out here from UAP. Follow along wherever you get your podcast. Make sure you're still doing that. Download, subscribe on all the major podcasting platforms. Just search UAP. Also on YouTube. You can do that.

Just search UAP podcast. And follow on social media, of course, at UAPodcast 850 on Twitter, on TikTok, all that good stuff. And on Instagram too, at UAPodcast 850. But with all that said, really fun episode here today. Love this discussion and hope you enjoyed it too.

So on that note, thank you all again for everything and for all the support. Because as you know, it does mean the world to me. So thank you. So until next time, it's Stephen Deanie here saying, be well. We'll talk again soon right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast. Thanks.