UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 217 An Introduction to Macro Psychokinesis & How it Could Explain Everything

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

Beings described as lighter than air. UFOs defying the known laws of physics. The mysteries behind our own consciousness abilities. These are some of the things that are discussed as Stephen Diener brings on Yale trained philosopher and author, Christopher Noel. How does something known as Macro Psychokinesis play a role in all of this and the possible changing of matter itself? Sit down and strap in for this one...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Yes, welcome back in to UAP episode number in 217. Stephen Dean are back to the here as always on the Unidentified Alien podcast. And today we're going to talk about something that I've actually never mentioned in over 200 episodes here of UAP. I've never mentioned the words macro psychokinesis before. And that's what we're going to do today, which is why I put it on there. An introduction to macro psychokinesis, it sounds like a college course. but really what it is actually we're going to be talking to a man named Christopher Noel, who is actually out of Yale.

He's a Yale trained philosopher and he's an author as well. He's written a few books about the phenomenon and how consciousness and things like macro-psychokinesis could play a role in how things move, how things work when it comes to matter, possibly changing, and how that could explain the mysteries behind UFO, propulsion, right? And it's because there is no signs of propulsion. We get that instantaneous acceleration. We get all these different things and all these different questions when it comes to the beings themselves, their craft, how do they move, how do they go between space and time? So we kind of put it all together with consciousness, with matter, with macro psychokinesis,

and how all these things kind of played together to possibly point us to some answers and explanations or maybe even create some new questions. And that's what it's all about sometimes. just, you know, try to figure things out as best as we can and ask the questions and maybe see if we stumble across some answers. And this is actually a good example here as we get into it with Chris. We refer to a video that he had sent to me before we spoke. And in the video, there's a clip in there. There's two clips that we refer to. One of them is with this guy named Ariel Fores, who was just a normal dude in Argentina. And he was being studied by a doctor named Dr. Stephen Broad.

And in that study, Ariel Forese was somebody that was just kind of like levitating a table. I know how that sounds, you know, 1800s parlor trick or a seons or something like that. That's not what this is. This is, you know, and actually I do want to make that point because a seons is brought up as well. And I don't delve into that stuff. I'm just being completely honest because you're dealing with dark forces, possibly, you know, moving in during these spiritual rituals. And I don't mess with that stuff. But it does get brought up.

So there is a fine line between, you know, a seance where, like I said, spiritual ritual, dark forces can move in and have influences on what's going on there. If a table starts floating or someone's, you know, talking to a loved one or something like that. and there's a fine line between that and what we refer to in here and what we talk about mainly you know more than seance that's just brought up once we're kind of differentiating between the two and which is macro psychokinesis and consciousness and how you can use that to kind of maybe physically change matter and overcome like the nature of physics it's wild stuff I know it sounds like oh my gosh, what the heck. But it's super compelling. And it does kind of make you think, well, maybe actually this does make sense with some of the things we hear about with how UFOs

have been reported to fly in different beings, how they've been reported. So we get into that. And we speak about that guy, Ariel Foreas in Argentina, because he was someone who's on video with that guy, Dr. Stephen Broad that I mentioned, making a table float. I mean, it's, so, he sent me that video. We refer back to that and we believe that he was using macro psychokinesis in that video, that he was able to kind of like tap into this, you know, abstract consciousness where he can possibly change, you know, the physics, change matter. I know this sounds nuts, but this is the conversation. So take it for what it's worth and come into it with an open mind to at least consider some of these things.

And we also speak about Leslie Kane because she's actually been a witness to some of these things, which I didn't know. I've never heard this before. But she's been a witness to some of these things. And we refer to something that she said here in the video that Chris sent me beforehand. So what I want to do real quick, it's like a 20-second clip of Leslie Kane talking about her experiences of being with different people on multiple occasions watching tables float, like out of control. So here's the clip of Leslie that we refer to. during our conversation so we'll just play that real quick i mean there is some kind of forces at play here when you can sit in a room and watch objects levitate before your eyes which i've done many

times there's got to be a physics there's got to be a scientific explanation of what is going on to make that happen and i wish that more scientists were curious about this i mean this is actually happening well there you go and we are curious about it, which is why we spoke about it here today and why I decided to interview Christopher Noel about the subject, because I'm very curious about it. And again, you know, just keep in mind, like I said before, right? The differences between a seance and what we're talking about here. It's just important to point that out as well.

So without further ado, there's your primer. There's your kind of setting the table. So now myself and Christopher Noel discussing everything here that we just spoke about right here on UAP. Sit back and enjoy. Okay. Well, strap in for this one and put your thinking cap on because I'm bringing in here today on UAP. Yale-trained philosopher and author, Christopher Noel, who has some pretty interesting things to present about the nature of consciousness and how it relates to the UAP phenomenon.

So looking forward to this. Chris, thanks so much for joining the show here today. I'm glad to have you. Well, Stephen, I'm honored. Long-time listener, first-time caller. That's right. There you go. No, thank you. I appreciate that.

I'm glad you've enjoyed the show in the past. Also, I'm looking forward to talk about, obviously, is the task at hand here today. And that is, well, the nature of consciousness. And that is something that's, when it connects to the UAP topic, that's something that I really like to explore. And I underline the word explore because obviously we can't say that we know all the answers. These are all theories. These are all things that, again, we like to explore when it comes to the philosophy behind all this. And if I could, Chris, I want to read the line here in our email exchange that really grabbed my attention.

I want to start off here. And the line says, what if many of the strangest aspects of the UFO phenomenon are not technological mysteries, but consciousness mysteries? And that kind of got the cogs of my head kind of spinning there. So I want to tee that up and throw it to you on that aspect if you could kind of extrapolate that out. you say about that question itself? Yeah, I mean, a lot of people point to this. Increasingly, as you've noticed and all of us have noticed, over the last few years, the C word has been rising in prominence,

the good C word. Yes. And you've just played some video examples of macro psychokinesis, where some people, very rare individuals with psychic gifts, can either, you know, by themselves or in a group cause tables or other objects, usually it's tables, that's the most convenient for people to sit around, to lose their normal relationship to gravity and simply rise up. And this can be done and has been documented throughout the last 150 years, but usually in

settings that are difficult or impossible to document within, like low light settings in physical mediumship context. But it's been happening way before 150 years ago. Of course, it's anything that's possible for consciousness to accomplish has been true ever since there's been consciousness. Kind of being displayed. I mean, that's what I really took away from it, like this macro psychokinesis, which I think is the new term that we all, you know, learn here for today is something

that I know in the video that you played before we started, that Leslie Kane vouched for, that's, you know, scientists. of South America, vouched for that this is something. And it's an interesting correlation, actually, Chris, one that I never really considered until looking into your work that you presented here to me and to us now on UAP, which is what if we take something that is considered kind of parlor trick, right? This levitate the table, ooh, you know, like the woo-woo type of thing. But take that out and actually look at this from a serious angle, which is what if

this is actually a learned technique through consciousness, through the I guess expansion of consciousness that we can learn just like with remote viewing, where remote viewing can be a learned technique through consciousness. What if we can use as macro psychokinesis and

actually use that to change physical structures in a way where they lose their obedience to gravity? So to draw that correlation. These objects continue to appear the same, but something is transformed within them that changes this relationship to the usual laws of nature, at least the law of gravity. And yeah, you're right. It's so hard to convince people of the legitimacy of this because we've seen it in the parlor trick setting.

And magicians and illusionists are pulling this off. And so anyone who looks at this just latches on to that explanation without going any. deeper. Well, the going deeper in this case is that people like Leslie Kane, who is unimpeachable in her objectivity and authority in terms of investigative journalism, she's been a member of a physical medianship circle in England that has been going on for 40 years and has never been remotely debunked with Stuart Alexander. And she's seen objects float around and fly around through the air, not, as we saw in those clips, not touched by human hands, but just floating by themselves, losing their becoming lighter than air. It rocks your world to see this. It rocked Leslie's

world. And although I don't know her, I'd love to compare notes because we've both had this fundamentally destabilizing experience. It makes you begin to reframe what's reality and how consciousness can play into reality. And I think that you made that link right at the end and I cut you off is, is a connection possible between these objects, small, small scale, meager objects like tables and chairs like we saw in some of those old photographs and UAP, because the enigma of UAP, especially from the mainstream scientific viewpoint, has been, how do they pull off all of these maneuvers and go from zero to 20,000 miles an hour instantaneously without creating any heat signature.

Yeah. You know, Kevin Canuth talks about how in the Tick-Tac incident, one of them went from 80,000 feet down to 50 feet in two-thirds of a second. Yeah. And he said, if this were obeying anything that we recognize within the laws of thermodynamics, it would have kicked out an exhaust from that motion and that stopping that could enough energy to light the eastern seaboard for a month. But not only do many of these objects that we look at with thermal cameras,

not exhibit a heat signature, many of them are cold, the opposite of the heat signature. And so some scientists and engineers, proposed some sort of a warp drive where spacetime itself is bent and distorted, well, that itself would create heat. It would create a very different signature from what we see on these. And also, you can't imagine how distorted our view, our vision, our ability to see these objects would be if they were actually bending, warping space time around them in an envelope. We wouldn't have a direct vision of them.

And yet so many of the times, especially in daytime, you can just see these things. And they look like normal objects that is in our same spacetime matrix or metric. They look just like normal objects that simply happen to be not obeying the laws of gravity. And so I, so go ahead. No, I was going to say. So I think at least what's coming into my mind right now, and I swear I'm not using any psychokinesis here to read your mind. But when it comes to what you're saying,

it feels like we're kind of using process of elimination here. And your overall thesis is that when it comes to how these things are moving, that we go, in your view,

we should go more toward the ideas that have been presented that they're being piloted by some type of consciousness. Yeah, and either they're Either they're empty of occupants or, I don't know, I don't know I quote occupants. They would be occupants. Either they're empty of occupants or, and they're being controlled by consciousness, by the intentions of perhaps a hive mind of consciousness, or they have pilots inside whose own consciousness is inextricably bound up with a physical object.

you know, so that there's a symbiotic guidance system, if you will. And in terms of the hive mind, I mean, people say, well, how could a gigantic metal craft hurtle through the sky just based on consciousness? Well, I propose that between a table lifting off the ground and a massive metallic object hurtling through the sky, there's a great difference in degree, but not a difference in kind. You know, that's a very useful distinction because it's the same kind of thing happening. It's just a radically different degree of it. And if you if you think that a single person like this this man in Argentina, Ariel Ferrias, could allow part of a table to rise up, think about untold number of consciousnesses of aliens, probably invisible because I think their default state is invisible and we can get to that.

Trained on an object, think how much more, think how much of a force multiplier this would be, this group focus on these things. So I think to me it's plausible that the same sort of principle is involved behind both kinds of transcendence of gravity. And then once you transcend gravity, why then the object becomes of a,

nature that it's not existing, it's not obeying other laws of thermodynamics like friction, drag, so that it can move to the air at untold speeds, uncalculable speeds, and not create a sonic boom because

nature has changed. It's like the table nature has changed. And I have an idea how that happens we can get into if you'd like. Hey guys, we'll get back to that in just a second, but I wanted to kind of continue something here that I've been talking to you about now for a little while. And that is my experiences with Shopify.

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That's Shopify.com slash UAP to start your free trial today. Yeah, and I also wonder because, I mean, I have two things popped in my head. Number one, we're talking about the changing nature, literally physical nature of objects, but also, and maybe this will answer the question that I'm about to ask you, which is we're used to, right, our laws of physics, meaning in this case, the more mass of an object, the more effort, the more output you need to move the object. The example would be the starship rockets, you know, needs 32 Raptor engines or something like that to have enough thrust to push this thing up into space. Right. Or, you know, in fiction, we think about, or if we, you know, extrapolate something. something out from a fictional series into what we're talking about when it comes to kind of like this telekinesis, psychokinesis consciousness.

We think about something like with Stranger Things, where 11, she's outputting all this effort to move a heavier object or close a gate. Right. Meanwhile, if it's just a person, she can wave her hand. We're used to that thought, right, of more output, more energy to move these heavier things. But if we're changing the nature of a physical object, then you don't need that heavier output. Bingo, because once we have the ability, the capacity to change the object from within is how I'm arguing, then it's changed. It doesn't require more force. So in a way, what I was just saying about the hive mind is a little bit of a moot point, because if one person could change the nature of a gigantic object, then they could do the same thing. I'm just not sure that one person, I mean, our consciousness,

abilities or potential is very, very diminished compared to what they apparently have. And even our psychically gifted people can only accomplish child's play compared to what this other kind of consciousness can accomplish. And I think that the alien creatures, I say alien because I don't think they evolved on another planet. And we can get into that if you want. We may not have time to do all this. I think that they have a different kind of consciousness, but like consciousness writ large,

it can affect the physical world. How does it do that? I think because my idea, just step aside for a second. You know how for the last half century physics, which doesn't often agree on a whole lot, has come around to a consensus that elementary particles, which we used to think were the building blocks, the most fundamental building blocks of reality are not, in fact, the most fundamental. But underneath that are these universal fields, these fields of potential, potential energy slash matter, because we know for Einstein that matter and energy are two sides of the same coin.

So we have these fields, and it's called quantum field theory. But I hesitate to use the Q word because it scares a lot of people, including me. But this isn't any of that spooky stuff. This is just these fields. It's quantum field theory. So there are 17 known so far at last count, 17 known elementary particles, electron, photon, quark, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And the idea here is that each of these fields, each of these particles has its own dedicated field. And this, the electron field gives rise only to electrons and the quark field only to quarks. So these fields are the most fundamental level

of reality. And my proposal, which is, isn't just out of nothing. I think it explains some things that the conventional paradigm is not able to explain. My proposal is that consciousness is an 18th field. And it is at the highest frequency. All these other fields each has their own frequency level, because frequency vibration is what defines different kinds

of atoms, different kinds of particles. Right. So I think that consciousness is at a frequency level too high for us to detect and measure with our feeble instruments so far. Therefore, we can't get any direct evidence of it, but there's tons of indirect evidence that I'm looking at in my book, The Anatomy of Thin Air. I go into a hypothesis, and of course most of us are wrong with any of these hypotheses, but I go into an attempt to comprehend all this weirdness. all the paranormal experience, the various domains of paranormal experience, all as derivative from the nature of consciousness as this fundamental field. And I think that this field being such a high frequency,

therefore the wavelength is shorter than even the nucleus of an atom. And I've looked into this, and it doesn't go against any principles of physics. Even gamma rays are smaller than the nucleus of atoms. and I think the consciousness field, in order to accomplish what it does and yet not be detected, is above that. So anyway, since it's the smallest wavelength of all the fields, I see it as nested within all matter. So I think of it as the nested field theory. That's just a provisional idea, working title. And it goes together with some things that some have also thought before me,

smarter people before me and that have lifted me on their shoulders a little bit, which is Nigel Kerner, who is a writer about aliens and UAP, said that when we die, we go to the space between atoms. And that goes together with a small, small wavelength, high, high frequency of the cautionist field, that there's plenty of room between and within atoms. If you took a, if you made the nucleus of an atom the size of an apple, the diameter, the diameter from one outer orbital to the other of this atom would be five miles. There's tons of empty space for this other, this ultimate field to occupy. So I think it's within

matter at a normal default ratio mostly, and that when paranormal occurrences flare up, like rising a table or like encountering a Sasquatch, or like when a UAP lands, I mean, an and approaches you, there's an upsurge, a ratio spike of this consciousness field in relationship to the ordinary physical fields. And there's a conflict and a dynamic that occurs, which is why we get thermodynamic effects, such as cold, suddenly cold, you know, haunted houses have these colds. People report cold when a UAP is landing. As I mentioned before, often UAP and the sky are seen as cold, super cold sometimes.

I think that's because when they manifest out of the invisible default statement, they come into our reality briefly, they have to, it takes energy to manifest. And I think they pull thermal energy and they also pull electromagnetic energy. The reason that when you have a visitation from UAP or an alien, there's suddenly your hair stands on end. There's all this static electricity is that when the consciousness field surges up in a localized fashion, it can strip the electrons off of the atoms. This is called ionization. And that's a well-known electromagnetic occurrence that happens when you apply magnets and electric.

fields to other fields. They can create this. And this is what people experience. I know you're not on Sasquatch today, but people experience this with Sasquatch. I've been for 20 years of field researcher in Sasquatch, and you often get what's called zapping, which is you feel this electrical sensation in your chest. And it sometimes makes people nauseous or puts them to their knees, their electronic equipment, their cameras malfunction, the batteries get drained. Same exact thing happens in the context of UAP visitations and alien visitations. Electromagnetic effects make our grid go cofluy, like streetlights will blink or compasses go. Yeah.

And like hauntings, light bulbs often explode. Interesting. And that can even occur at the level of streetlights. They can explode too. So both thermodynamics and electromagnically and electromagnetka. magnetically, this upsurge of consciousness in one spot creates all sorts of havoc. And I don't remember other models of reality that include consciousness, explaining that that satisfactorily.

Yeah, and I think people get scared, too, when they hear. And I don't mean, like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to go hot under my bed scared. But I think it's maybe intimidating is the better word. Intellectually scared. Yeah, when people hear consciousness. we start to think, we get this image in our mind of like, oh, okay, that's way too much for me. Like, you know, quantum theory, quantum field, like you said, the keyword, if you hear these words, and they're almost buzzwords nowadays where people think, oh, that's way above me.

But it could be a key when it comes to, I mean, you're talking about physical effects that show physical nature changing. Right. When it comes to how and how consciousness might actually play into all of that. and we can actually scientifically measure consciousness? I mean, am I getting that right? Well, no,

you can indirectly, I mean, that's the whole thing, since it's beyond our, it's too high frequency to measure. Okay. We only can measure in the gamma range, but I checked into it,

and science says there's no theoretical limit to how high this can go above where we can measure. So I think that's where I park consciousness. And, but it's not, that makes it seem like it's up in some heavenly realm. No, it's inherent in everything.

And, it's helpful to be able finally to get some traction sort of so that you're not swept away by the concept of this grand, all-encompassing consciousness or some formative agency above what we can know. But I'm trying to demystify this and say that consciousness has to be matter slash energy because if it weren't, it wouldn't be able to interact with our familiar matter slash energy. It has to be. So given that, where is it? What is it? And you know, people have tried to capture this lightning in a bottle. They've done all sorts of experiments where they've tried to see, well, is telepathy or remote viewing? Is the mechanism of that something on the electromagnetic spectrum?

And they've put remote viewers inside Faraday cages so that none of the known part of the spectrum can get through. And they still manage to achieve the identification of the target on the other side. of the world. Yeah. It can't be a material. You actually touch with something really interesting there, Chris, which is, you know, and I think that's also something that people kind of maybe an image that pops at their head when we talk about consciousness and how it's used, we think about using our brain

power. And your theory is, and I think a lot of people talk about this too, which is we're not using the brain when we talk about consciousness. We're not talking about being unconsciously. You get knocked out and it's a brain bruise and it's a concussion. We're talking about the very being. of reality, like the being of being, which is this almost an abstract thought, but it's not using the brain.

It's using your, is it soul? Are we talking about the soul? Are we talking about being able to tap into something that is just, like you said, not really measurable, but that other beings give it maybe some type of non-human beings have been able to tap into, and that explains the propulsion of the craft and how they able to move it. And we're talking about being able to tap into that type of cloud, if you will, that is there. We're all fractal pieces of consciousness at large. The poet Rumi says you are not the drop in the mighty ocean, but the mighty ocean in the drop. So the mighty ocean that is consciousness as such

is part and parcel of all of us. But when we're embodied down here on this planet, we don't have conscious access. We don't have awareness or direct access to this, including our higher self that we sort of return to after death, I think. And so, yeah, I mean, I think consciousness as such is in this field, and there are all sorts of intelligences that subsets of this that have different bandwidths and different priorities. And, you know, like so alien consciousness is one kind. And if you believe that there are many different varieties of aliens, then that's a whole bunch of different factions of that. And then you have dead people of our species. And they have different abilities and priorities. I think they can transcend to higher frequency. And I think that's why aliens are interested in

us because they can't. But that's in my book, Homegrown Monsters. It's a whole other kettle of I love fish. Yeah. But just briefly on Sasquatch, and then I'll close this parenthesis, is that the reason people often think of Sasquatch as a spiritual being is that people see it disappearing. I have a close friend, extraordinarily trustworthy, who saw one crossing the road and then disappear in the middle. And it wasn't her vision just being affected because everything else was continuous in the

experience, but that thing that disappeared. And hundreds of thousands of people have seen the same thing. they are more psychically, spiritually adept than we are. And that's why so many of them can do mindspeak or telepathy with us. And I have a book called MindSpeak, if anyone's interested in that. And I think they can also, just as we can, after we die, some of us can briefly re-manifest here to say goodbye to our loved ones or to haunt somebody that wronged us.

You know, we can do that, but only briefly and only locally because it takes so much energy and it goes against the grain of how much different our frequency is from these more dense, more slower frequencies. Hey, guys, we'll get back to that in just a second. But I wanted to kind of continue something here that I've been talking to you about now for a little while. And that is my experience is with Shopify. You know, when you go to start a business, the worst thing is, the hardest part is trying to figure out where to begin. You have this idea, but how do you make this? that come to life. Here's the great thing with Shopify. Everything you need is right there ready for you from day one. So that way all those jitters about, well, what's my first step? Shopify has step one

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And it's interesting to kind of draw the parallel between the two because I know like you said, it's not something that I normally cover as the Sasquatch topic, but it's interesting to bring in the conversation when it comes to the UAP topic because if we're talking about how you can manifest or remanifest or be seen or not, seen, we talk about that with craft as well. We talk about that with beings. I mean, there's been conversations about beings, how you, you know, can see them and then they kind of become translucent sometimes, craft especially. They've been described as translucent. So are we talking about it? And the reason why I say how we can compare the two, were you talking about the

same type of awareness of the visible spectrum? I've spoken about the visible spectrum here sometimes and maybe how that ties into, again, awareness being with consciousness. the visible spectrum of what we are able to perceive. You talk about the measure of gamma rays, and we can only perceive so much on our scale. So maybe when it comes to craft, the way we talk about craft and how they can seemingly disappear,

maybe that, you know, when it comes to Sasquatch, maybe that we're talking about the same type of reality that we just can't perceive that they can tap into. Is that? Yeah, no, exactly. You're right on my same wavelength, so to speak. One of my pet peeves is people too easily, too fastly saying, well, it's another dimension. It must be another dimension.

Right, right, right. This just comes out of a preposterous overvaluing of our eyesight and even of our instruments, that if we can't see it, it must be another place somewhere intrinsically or fundamentally different from this space. I think why UAPs and aliens are so... and shy and they're not landing in front of everybody and letting us go touch them and understand them. I think there's an economy going on here where there's an energy outlay that can only last for a certain amount of time. The larger the ship is, the more energy it takes to manifest.

And I think that they have to return to their, that revert to their default state. I don't think they can You know Of course when we capture Apparently we've captured aliens Or they've crashed and died Or they're still alive I think at that point

There's there's a there's a Diminishment of the proportion of consciousness in that object The craft or the body I think then that it can Stay in this dense realm That we we call home here And it's sort of a density

Lock and they can't return But people who have been abducted constantly refer to these creatures as not only are they lighter than air but they're really really rarefied meaning the opposite of dense there people in john max books talk about how they're light made of light made of air um jacques belet valet quotes a man who says they were as it were made of air and i think that this speaks to how they straddle uh the conscious their consciousness state and their physical, brief, you know, temporary physical state, when they're straddling that, they're very undense. And I think that's similar to a table levitating. I think that's why they can

pick up an abducte, and the abdictive suddenly becomes lighter than air. Like when you touch a table, if you're Ariel Ferris in Argentina, the abdicti becomes not only lighter than air, but so undense that he or she can then pass through the ceiling or through the glass or through the roof of the, of the car and then be deposited back in bed and none the words for where except for, you know, like scars and implants, but in general, physiologically, in the functioning of the body, none the worse for where, because they get to return to their, to our body incarnate state. Yeah. And just as a table changes, but its appearance doesn't change and then it reverts to being just

an ordinary table. I think it's very similar. Very interesting. Yeah. And I mean, again, you know, kind of like changing the physical state of something. You bring up a great point about how, because obviously, you know, I've heard that as well from abductees who have spoken to about, you know, being taken through the wall,

being taken through the roof, being taken through the car. That would explain it. Kind of changing that state of matter. And it's an interesting comparison when you talk about, you know, how someone can actually get a table to float using psychokinesis when it's not a parlor, trick when it's not that they're picking up with their foot or something, but there's actually

something real happening there. It's fascinating. And I do want to bring up, too, Chris, the idea of vibrations and frequencies, because there was a quote that I saw in some of the work that was reading through of yours, which is attributed to Tesla. And Tesla is someone that I personally put on a pedestal and his work and his pioneering work, in my opinion, that just got buried, which is a whole other story for another day. but his his theories on and his work on vibrations in frequency and free energy. How does all that play into this, do you think? The quote attributed to him, and there's some controversy,

but it basically does distill his entire worldview. So whether or not he said this verbatim is that if you want to understand, what is it? If you want to understand existence, think in terms of frequency, vibration, and energy. Yeah. And so that's what that's where I'm at too. I'm glad that Tesla agrees with me.

It's gratifying that in retro causation. So so what your question is that kind of energy, I don't know what free energy he was going after and how it relates to what we think of today as zero point energy. Is it possible though that maybe, and this again, I'm just theorizing here. And so is it possible that when he was. was talking about in experimenting with free energy, whether it was with Tesla coils or, you know, saying that we could have, you know, harness into this energy, to this magnetism, to all these vibrations that the frequencies that surround our everyday life that we can harness into that to get, free energy to get this free power, that we're talking about the same type of, you know, field,

so to speak, that we're talking about here with consciousness that some people are able to tap into or that, you know, NHI are able to tap into. Again, just just kind of theorizing. It could very well be. I mean, if there's, if, if what, what we like about the, this kind of approach, not just my approach, but any approach that makes more concrete, you know, and practical, the, the, the, what could otherwise be hopelessly mystified and romanticized, which is consciousness.

If we can, if we can harness that intellectually and make it. play ball with the rest of reality, then given the fact that in science in general, the higher the frequency of something, the more information it can contain and the greater the energy it has. So that's very important. And if that's the highest source of energy, then it makes sense that Tesla could perhaps be drawing from it or learning how to draw from it or, you know, pointing us toward how to draw from it. And not only is it the highest information, which of course lends itself to being behind how remote viewing works. You know, we can access any information in the world. Not only that, but Ingo-Swan remote-viewed Jupiter and saw that it had rings around it.

And scientists scoffed at that, but a few years later, the Voyager probes went and they saw these rings around Jupiter. So it's as though all information, information as such, is accessible to this, to consciousness. And so that sort of maps on to how it would make sense that this, the consciousness is the highest frequency of reality. And that the higher the frequency, the more information it can contain because the band, because the cycles, per second are the more of them, the greater the bandwidth is. Interesting. And the greater the bandwidth, the more information. But not only that, those other properties

go alongside the fact that physically, the higher frequency you go, the less dense in our sense of density, the less dense it is. So when consciousness is caused through concentration and intention to, surge within an object, say the table to go back to our tired old example, what I think is happening is that this super low density field is raising its proportion within that object. And so because there's so much space for it to fill that it's empty otherwise. And so the object becomes net, its net mass overall decreases until decreases more and more.

and if a table in experiments other than what are showed in that video, shown that a table is on a scale, you can see getting lighter and lighter until it gets to zero, and then up beyond zero, it's even lighter than air. I think that's because the consciousness field in its physical authority has caused the object to become net less dense, less massive. So that's my explanation for how these, how psychokinesis, macro and micro can take place. And I'm not aware, I can be corrected, I hope. I'm not aware of any other model that explains how objects, you know, in the, can float.

In the video you showed in the beginning, Leslie Kane says, there's got to be a physics to this. You know, scientists need to get on to this. It's because there is no explanation so far. So I'm just humbly proposing an explanation and see how, whether it gets knocked down and what people can replace it with, it works better. You know, that's how science works. Yeah, right, right. And it's fascinating.

Before we're done, is there anything that you want to kind of get out there that maybe I forgot to ask or didn't get to bring up? Is there anything else on the top of your head that you wanted to throw out there as far as theories and ideas on all this? Oh, theories would take too long to go into all that. I'd like to... Pressing thoughts. I'd like to leave you with two quotations.

One is from, you know, Matthew Pines? Right, yep. He's a super bright physicist philosopher. And recently on Jesse Michaels, he said the following, I think instead of civilizations expanding out to the universe, maybe they just basically collapse into its basement inside matter, which is what I'm trying to talk about and think about. He says, we're looking for civilizations

that are transforming their local galactic neighborhood, right, doing massive infrastructure projects to convert stars into, dice and spheres and more probes, whereas that may be amateur hour. Like most civilizations might realize, why bother when there's a whole shortcut available? We can just break into the basement, so between atoms and within atoms. And then we've got root access to reality, just embed down at the smallest scale and just disappear. And I'll just leave it at that.

I think that's where consciousness does lie. And although no one, you and I included are as smart as this Matthew Pines guy. I always am blown away when he starts talking. I think that he's providing a very useful articulation of this view. The inside out view. Oh, one more thing. Dean Radin, who maybe the leading or at least the most well-known parapsychologist of our time, our generation, finally did the spoonbending.

and a lot of people dismiss spoon bending, but he particularly did it so that he wasn't trying to get the neck of the spoon to bend, but rather the bowl of the spoon, where it's much thicker and you can't bend it. And he said he finally managed to do it with intention, and he said it was just like people describe, it turned to putty, like putty,

and it folded over, and he showed the spoon on this interview. And he said then instantly hardened again. And he says, he doesn't think he was imposing anything from the outside, but rather altering the information structure from the inside out. And I think this is how consciousness works on the physical world. So it's there. It's available to us. We just have to be able to tap into it.

And I think in the ancient days, we could tap into it more. And I, you know, I think we were rivals of how the alien consciousness can tap into this. I think these ancient megalithic stonework examples show that we were able to, to make matter malleable back then in a way that we can't do anymore, but aliens can. And so I think that we're going to either rediscover that or we're going to get further and further distance from our primordial capabilities. Hopefully we get closer to it. And I got to tell you, Chris, this is really fun, really cool to talk about, and think about.

It's great to find to have somebody who thinks similar or have. has thought about this stuff in a similar way. Because lots of times interviews, I have to sort of try to convince the person and they're not easily convinced. And so this is very, it's very, very gratifying to have such a meeting of the minds. Yeah. Yeah. Likewise.

It's, it's great to, again, just at least talk about the ideas. Like, let's let's at least talk about these things. And, you know, I believe in at least considering the stuff and then just kind of let your mind wander with it. Let's see where we land. And so I'm, uh, I had a lot of fun. And see if, and see if it, um, specifically addresses aspects of, of these phenomena that have not been successfully addressed before.

That's where I'm at. It's like, how can we use, you know, are these things practically applicable to, to this strange stuff? Well, and if we take it, it, it does seem like it. If we take what we're talking about and apply it to propulsion and apply it to movement and apply it to, you know, um, essentially, you know, interdimensional as, as, as we say, it does kind of check a lot of boxes what we've what we've kind of

theorized about so fascinating to say the least Chris uh compelling and thought provoking I sound like I'm making a a movie review right now but it's how can people find you how can they follow what what you're doing find all your work throw it all out there yeah my

my website is the nearness of you dot net and the YouTube channel is impossible visits and my most recent book is the anatomy of thin air and before that was homegrown monsters where I argue that these aliens are are not from foreign planet but are forged by consciousness using the raw materials of zoology and minerals and genetics good stuff very good Chris awesome fun very cool loved all this and hopefully we can keep in touch and maybe you know come back

again and sit down and theorize once again in the future. Yeah, I'd love to. You're a great interviewer. I appreciate you. Thanks, Chris. I appreciate that. And thank you for your time right here on UAP. Talk again soon. Well, thank you again to Chris for doing that. And thank you to you for

considering these things. I know, again, that might have seemed on its surface like it was going to be a little bit out there. But as we got into it, and even for me, when I got into this full disclosure here, coming into that interview, I was thinking to myself earlier in the morning, I was like, man, I don't know.

Like, this might be too far out there. Even for me and what I'm trying to do here on the show and the things that I present, I thought maybe this is one's going to be a little bit, you know, too far out. It could be a stretch. And I'm actually, and this is why it was actually another good lesson. I'm always learning lessons here when I do this. It was another great lesson to remember that don't have preconceived notions. about this stuff. Don't have preconceived notions about a conversation, whether that's in life, just in general, in a macro picture, right, in the bigger picture, or on the micro scale of

just doing UAP, of just producing an episode here of UAP, don't have those preconceived notions, have an open mind to have a discussion. And I'm really happy that I did that because, as you probably heard in my voice and in my, you know, I guess back and forth there with Chris, I was truly fascinated by a lot of those things that he was saying. It was kind of connecting the dots of my own head as we spoke. Like, well, wait, actually, this does make sense. Like, what if, you know, these extraterrestrials have some ability, have some way, this knowledge? What if, what if this knowledge that they have, right?

This doesn't apply to higher technology like we always talk about, and it could still. but what if it kind of mostly or mainly applies to a higher consciousness, a higher knowledge of how to achieve different levels or tap into different levels of consciousness in order to achieve instantaneous acceleration, in order to achieve moving between time and space. Maybe that doesn't boil down to technology. Maybe that boils down to what we were just speaking about there in that episode. And that's why I was happy to have this conversation because the way I look at it is we got to add in a kind of like a different little bullet point, an idea to this overall discussion of what are we looking at here? What are we dealing with?

Who are these extraterrestrial beings? How do they do X, Y, Z? Are they moving between time and space? Is it interdimensional? Are they already here? So this was something that we can. add into that discussion when we ask these questions and we look for answers. This, I think, was something that we can now put in our bag of answers, of possibilities, I guess is the

word I'm looking for. And so that's why I'm really happy this worked out. And I appreciate Chris's time. I appreciate you listening as well. And hopefully you had that same type of experience that I did, which was, you know, again, a little bit eye-opening and thought-provoking for sure to make you think about all these different possibilities. So really, really cool. And that's what I love to do on UAP, right? It's just kind of have those new ideas and have new thoughts and have these new possibilities run through your mind.

And I think we definitely did that today. So thank you to Chris and thank you again for listening and kind of going on this different journey with us here today on UAP. Coming up on the show, quite frankly, again, always full disclosure here, still trying to nail down at time with Congressman Eric Burleson. His schedule has been pretty busy, actually, if I could. I'll actually read it the last text message I got here, and that will kind of explain how things have been going with trying to nail down a time. Let me see, we're trying to pick a date, and it was just about to happen, but then I got this text message.

Now is not good. A lot unfolding with budget resolution and reconciliation right now. And I said, well, I guess that's pretty important, too. So, you know, there is work that has to be done within Congress. And unfortunately, we can't solely focus on the UAP topic. I know Eric has a – wears a lot of different hats and has a lot of work to do. So I'm just honored, and I've said this to him and his team before. I'm always honored that they just try to carve out some time to come on here to UAP.

That really does mean a lot to me. So we'll continue to work on that to get him back here on the show. When his schedule is freed up a little bit, we'll be able to do that. So stay tuned. I'll let you know when Eric Burlington is back on the show. And what else is coming up next to you on UAP? You know, I've always got something up my sleeve. So be sure to stick around and follow along social media and through all the podcasting platforms.

Just search for a UAP podcast on social media. That's at UAP podcast on all the social media channels there. And UIP podcast on YouTube. And, of course, UAP on Spotify and Apple and anywhere you get a podcast. Just search it out if you, haven't subscribed already, do that, and you'll get all those episodes as they come in. So keep on coming back. I always appreciate it.

And can't wait to talk to you again soon. Because as you know, and as I say, there's always something going on. And I can't wait to see what happens next. So until then, it's Stephen Deiner here saying thank you again for everything and for all that support, because it really does mean the world to me. So thank you. So until next time, it's Stephen Deiner here saying, say, be well. Thanks so much.

Talk again soon right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast.