UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP EP 97 James Fox Interview about "The Program"

Episode Date: December 11, 2024

World renowned filmmaker and UFO documentarian, James Fox, joins Stephen Diener to discuss the long awaited release of his new movie, The Program. What should we expect from it and which parts make James nervous? Plus, what are James' thoughts on the New Jersey "drone" situation? All of that and more on this episode of UAP...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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So when the conversation turns to what's next, it isn't about stepping away. It's about continuing the story. Explore your options at kingsley Manor.org, a nonprofit month-to-month-seemannor.org, a nonprofit month-to-month senior community within the Front Porch family. Yes, welcome into another episode of UAP. Stephen Dean are back with you here, as always, on the Unidentified Alien Podcast for what should be an exciting week here on the show. At least I'm excited to get it all out to you,

and I'll lay out why that is, because today we're going to start off for the first time ever, back-to-back episodes right here on UAP. So thanks again, once again for joining me here on the show. Really excited for you to hear. what is to come because we're going to start with this back-to-back escapade here on UAP with today's episode, episode 97, with my exclusive interview with James Fox. His movie, the program, a lot of us have been waiting to see this movie come out,

and it's finally coming out on Monday, December 16th. It'll be out on digital, on Apple, on Amazon, and a few other places, so we'll give you all that information on where you can get that. But it was nice enough to join me here on UAP. to discuss the program. What can we expect from it? What is he excited about? What is he nervous about? We get into Jason Sands. You know, his experience with Jason, as he told him, his story. Of course, I think a lot of us are familiar with Jason Sands at this point. I've spoken to him on and off the show. He's been out speaking a lot on his own through X, through Twitter, on spaces and things like that.

So he's been very visible when it comes to his experience, as a very vocal, when it comes to his close encounter with with an alien in the desert back in the mid-90s. And he is one of the people that James Fox interviewed. And we're going to see that interview at long last during the program when that comes out on Monday, December 16th. So we get into that. And a lot of other things, too. Congress, the recent drone, quote-unquote drone sightings and incursions, it's becoming a massive story, even outside of the UAP world. So we get into that a little bit as well towards the end.

But we cover a lot of ground here during the interview and some really fascinating things. that James reveals for the first time, actually, as we await the release of the program and the experiences that he had in Washington, D.C. during the congressional hearing. So really, really fun interview. Love talking to him. It was a great time.

And you're going to hear all that today on this episode. But before we get into it, I did mention a little history in the making here this week. For the first time ever, I'm going to be putting out back-to-back episodes because my original plan was to put out, and we know how plans always change, but my original plan was to put out my conversation with Anthony Williams.

If you know the show, you know Anthony Williams, Military Intelligence Insider. He's been on the show a lot, giving us information that we don't hear anywhere else, quite frankly. And he sat down with me last week, actually, to go over everything that's been happening with all the sightings throughout the world, whether it's the UK, Jersey,

or anywhere else throughout the United States as well. We speak about all that, and he gives, as usual, just absolutely phenomenal insight on these events. So I've been combing through that episode, just to kind of give you a glimpse of why that episode has not come out yet. I'm not trying to hide anything. I'm not trying to wait on anything. I actually wanted to put it out on Monday because we spoke last Thursday.

But I've been combing through it, and I've just been making sure that I have everything as completely tightened up as possible because there's just so much information that has come out between now and then. So I've just been trying to put it all together to make it make sense and be as timely as possible. And by doing that, I've actually delayed the process. So that's my fault. And I apologize for that. But it's still a fantastic interview with a lot of great information.

So what we're going to do this week is you're going to hear James Fox today as we discuss the program. And a lot of the other things that I mentioned there, just a fantastic interview. I think you're really going to enjoy. He was great. And then tomorrow, I'm going to put out this interview with Anthony Williams as we discussed for almost an hour and a half, actually, last week of all the things going on. So big week here on UAP, a historic week, and I truly hope that you enjoy it all. So we'll start off with here today, episode 97, the Unidentified Alien Podcast, myself and James Fox.

Enjoy. And here he is. Happy to have him on the show. Finally, I've been trying to do this for a while. James Fox right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien podcast. James, thanks for coming on. A pleasure to be here. Absolutely.

So, of course. You're my first interview. No, stop it. I'm the first one up. First one, yeah. I haven't been doing any interviews at all because I just haven't had the bandwidth. Yeah. And I put all of my focus on getting the film across the finishing line, which is, I think it becomes exponentially difficult as you get the last 10% of the film like over the, you know?

Absolutely. It's just insane. Well, of course, if you don't know the film we're talking about, then shame on you. But it's the program. December 16th, and you've been working on this for a while. I've had people asking me questions. They're saying, when is James coming out with the program? And they were asking me this last year.

I'm like, guys, I don't know. I'm not like texting James Fox, so I'm sorry, I can't tell you. So how does it feel to finally be able to put the questions to bed about when this is coming out and finally have it out to the public ready to see? It feels good. It feels good. I'm hoping that all the mechanisms that we put in place will prevent what happened to me as an independent filmmaker last year, in the year before last. I know there's been some talk about it online, but essentially my distribution company, you know, just completely me, along with many other filmmakers, stopped paying our royalties and just stole all of it.

So it's been very, very challenging, producing a new film. film under those circumstances. And so I did everything we could this time to prevent that from happening. God forbid. I don't think I could survive another round of that. But it does feel good. I'm a little cautiously optimistic. I know that I'm going to get some heat for this film.

There's a couple controversial, you know, incidences that I decided to report on despite the pushback that I got within the UFO community. Yeah. But there were things that were going. on behind the scenes that I was doing that they were not, that ultimately led me to make the decision to keep those aspects of the film in. I have a feeling I know what one of those is, and I'm going to ask you about it.

But before I do, I want to just ask you, kind of like the psyche, the mindset behind going into something like that. Because I've experienced things like that too, where it's like, okay, when I'm producing an episode of UAP, it's like, do I include this, do I include that? It's going to be controversial. It's a little nerve-wracking. So for you, like what goes into ultimately making that decision and say, you know what, I am going to put this in here,

and let's just let people make up their own mind, despite the flack I might get in the end. Well, you know, you're talking to a guy that made a film on alleged live aliens walking through a town that got captured. It's a classic. And it's still one of the most incredible stories. I had people within the UFO community begging me don't do it James what are you doing you know you've got a stellar

stellar reputation you just finished the phenomenon you're meeting with intel folks you know uh senators and now you're going to tarnish your reputation by reporting on live aliens walking through the town of virginia back in 1996 like is that really the direction you want to go in so i'm familiar with this territory this it's it's uh you know it's a slippery slope and i get that however I think it could be done in a way where like we did with moment of contact where we just allow the people that were there to describe what they saw and allow the audience to make up their own minds. Now, the case with Jason Sands.

That's what I was going to ask you about. Yes. Yeah, the case with Jason Sands. And I know I'm going to get flag for it. That's fine. I don't expect not to. I had meetings with people from. Senate Armed Service Committee, House Committee on Intelligence, you know, private meetings. And they completely backed up his bona fides. I mean, I spent the better part of a year tracking down, you know, the names of the other witnesses, the individual who debriefed them after the encounter. This individual was not willing to confirm or deny.

It was just like no comment, right? wasn't like, oh, it didn't happen, or I can't comment on the fact that it did happen or was just no comment. With the help of Mr. Sands himself, we were able to track down one of the witnesses. I had the names of all three of them, first and last. And individual was corresponding with him. And then as soon as we mentioned the encounter just went dark and ghosted us. So it wasn't like it didn't happen or, you know. And again, it, you know,

If it did happen, maybe this will encourage more people to investigate. We have a location. We have a date. We have names, people that were on duty. Like we have a video that leaked from a couple days prior, right? So maybe when we report on it, it'll be completely debunked by people that were there. Or maybe they'll come forward and say, you know what?

I wasn't going to come forward, but the fact that Jason Sands came forward and this video was leaked, I am going to come forward and I'm going to share with what I know. So I had these these Intel folks, serious, like, staff members tell me, don't dismiss Jason Sands. He might have PTSD and some issues, things that he's been exposed to during his time in the military, but he's legit. Like, he is who he says he is and he was where he says he was. And that's, that's the ironic part of it, I think, because when you think about everything

you mentioned, his record, it's all verifiable, everything he's done, the military, intelligence, all those different things. Like, it's all there and all the details, all the dates, all the names are there. It's not made up. It's just that one detail of people get hung up on. They say, okay, everything else might be true, but his encounter with a bluish, grayish alien in the desert, that part's a little bit too much for us.

So, I mean, what do we make of that? Why would that one instance, that one detail of the story, everything else is true, but that one part isn't true? Look, it's one thing to have unknown objects in the sky, but when you've got beings walking around on the ground, that, you know, that's a pretty, extraordinary claim. And I don't, I don't criticize those who have a difficult time believing it, because it's, you know, it's a, it's a tall tale, right? Yeah. But I do remind people in the film that

there have been reports of Close Encounters of the Third Kind dating back to at least the 1930s, 40s, 50s, 60s. I mean, even internally in Project Blue Book, you know, the very phrase, you know, was coined close and count of the first, second, and third kind. I think that was the early 50s. So these reports are nothing new. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Death Wish Coffee, Brooke Linnon, and Kylie. But what if people haven't heard about your brand?

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UAP. There's a moment when you start to wonder, what's the right next step? Not about changing who they are, just finding the right kind of support. At Kingsley Manor, life stays expressive, connected, and full of character,

shaped by people who have lived interesting lives and aren't finished yet. So it doesn't feel like a change. It feels like a change. continuation. Explore your options at canesley manor.org, a nonprofit month-to-month senior community within the Front Porch family. No, that's fair. And I do commend you for keeping in there because, again, knowing the flack that you were going to get, but you know, it's important, if I could just,

you know, kind of speak from my perspective, it's important to keep those stories in there, because like you said, to let people make up their own mind, you know, and that's what I always try to do. And if I could just throw in a little bit of, I guess, vouching for Jason Sands for you with you. This is the guy that I've spoken to as well. And we've had like three hour conversations and everything. And just from my point of view, this is a very sincere person. And I wonder if, I mean, did you get that same feeling when we're talking to him? You're kidding me?

Yeah, that's why I kept it in. I mean, I didn't just believe him because he said it. You know, is there an element? of doubt still within me. Of course there is. Is there an element of doubt with all the cases I report on? There's always that small like percentage like maybe maybe did this happen or you know like Rua Zimbabwe, 1994. I mean, my gosh. Right. Lines for lands occupants get out interact with the kids like really and the whole world doesn't know about that. You know, did that really happen? Well, I reported on that because I believed it happened. And also it's like getting other people to come forward.

The one extraordinary aspect of the Jason Sands alleged encounter in the desert is the fact that there were other on-duty military officers. It's not that long ago. Those people are still alive. Yeah, right. We have a date. We have a location. Maybe there's additional people who are going to come forward. Maybe there's additional photographic evidence or sensor data, radar data, you know, fleer or whatever from the test range.

Maybe that will come forward. Who knows? Now, do we know if anything like that is out there? and you're hoping it comes forward? Why wouldn't there be? Yeah. I feature leaked footage of an object. Sorry, somebody's trying to call me and I'm just going to stop this.

No, it's good. Of a similar shaped object that was captured on the range three days prior. And we show that. And you hear all the people that chatter about it. What the hell are we looking at? What is this thing? And they track it. And then three days later, apparently the thing lands.

and a convoy of people, again, on duty, right, report this thing. And they didn't even say like, oh, it was an alien. It was like, what the hell is it? What is this thing? Is it some sort of mutant? Right. Is it first I thought it was a military officer? Is it a mutant?

What is it? Was it, did they have a plane crash in the middle of the desert? Does he need medical attention? They didn't know. And Jason Sand still doesn't know. That's incredible. Well, can't wait to see this for anybody who's looking forward to seeing it. I know we're not going to be disappointed because it's like,

who said at the start, it's long awaited. So when you have this come out, December 16th, of course, and everyone finally gets to watch it, what are you most excited for personally? As far as, I guess, a snippet, a clip, an interview, something that pops into your head when you were producing the film and post-production where you're watching it back and you're saying, oh, I can't wait for someone to see this clip when this person says this or this footage so they can see this. Yes, I do. have that that exact moment. Before I say that, I was sort of back up and just say that, you know, I did the phenomenon, right? And then I took a moment and revisited a case that I've

been working on for over a decade, up to 12, 13 years now. And that's Virginia in place in South America. So my focus came off of what was going on right after the phenomenon was released, all the legislation, all the hearings and just everything that had gone down was a lot. And I went, I took my focus off of that because naturally the program would be, you know, a sort of sequel to the phenomenon, right? But I took like a, I don't know, a year, year and a half, went back to Brazil, shot that film. I was high, put a laser-like focus on that and got that film done. And then when I popped my head out of the sand, I was like, wow, so much has gone down.

I met with Mellon and a number of other folks. It's like, oh, my gosh, this legislation that's passed and all, you know, the first hearings. And of course, we had the second hearings. Everything was happening so quickly. It was like, wow, you know, this is amazing. And I wanted to to create a body of evidence that was happening between when the film, the phenomenon dropped and where we are today. right and I was very happy about that and and that was my objective with it now in terms of a particular case or or moment in the film that that really catches my eye that I'm really excited to share

with the general public yeah is uh is when I interviewed this uh Scottish guy who happened to be working as a chef with the two witnesses on the Calvin 1990 you have focus, which quite honestly, I've been chasing that down on and off. God, since probably 2003, 2002, mildly. David Clark is the one that deserves massive props on that. But, you know, this guy apparently worked with the two, with the photographers, with the guys that took the photograph back in 1990. And he says, I knew the, I knew the mates that took the photograph.

is uh he says uh i worked with him in the kitchen i made poachd eggs they made toast and and and i had like this copy editor who i've been working with for a long time she goes james why did you that's not really relevant like why did you leave that in i said why did i leave that in really i think it's really funny you don't think that's funny and she goes you know what yeah that is really funny it's one of the moments in the movie that you just have to laugh like, I mean pooch steaks, they meet toast. It's not. I want to make a t-shirt.

I want to make a t-shirt. I made post-tex. They made toast. Isn't it funny, though, sometimes, like, when you're in the middle of an interview or you're producing some, you know, piece of content, whether it's a film or a podcast, and there's just something like that that pops up.

You never expect it. You don't intend for it. But it happens, you're like, oh, this is gold. We were in hysterics the night we got the interview because I kept, I kept contact David Clark and I was like this guy you found me he goes look made it took me two years to get him to come forward to do an article a print article not even you know on camera or you know audio whatever and he said he would do it and then he kept and that was the last I mean I had to sandwich that in at the 11th hour

you know and he kept not responding and not responding I got to touch with David Clark and I said Dave did I say something to offend this guy like he said he would do it week after week keeps going pie and I you know he's not he's his eye yeah that's the kind of the way he is you know he was off the radar for over 30 years well and then he calls it like 10 o'clock at night or something I mean it was like we were in the studio right behind me well and and he's like I've just come out the pub I'm ready to give you an interview it's like perfect roll camera baby I wasn't ready I had a baseball right we're in this video editing like let's get it that's great one thing I've learned in this field is when, you know, when someone's willing to talk, don't wait one second. Go.

Exactly. And that was a really funny. It is a really funny moment in the film. That interview is a moment of levity and it's great. I love that section of the film. That's fantastic. Did we learn anything new about Calvin? Because like you said, that's a huge case.

I know you have Nick Pope in the movie. Can you tell us a little bit about what we learn about Calvin in the program? So again, I have to give massive props to David Clark. He has done a colossal amount of uncovering with that case. He came upon a redacted document that basically said the Royal Air Force Press Officer and then blank in 1990. Well, he went in and dug up who was the Royal Press Officer, Royal Air Force Press Officer back in 1990 in Scotland. And it was this guy named Greg Lindsay. So he contacted Craig Lindsay, and they started a correspondence that must have been several years.

And Craig Lindsay was part of the initial investigation with that case, and he had kept one of the prints. And that's the only reason why we have a print. And Craig Lindsay also interviewed the witnesses. The only person that we know alive publicly that investigated, spoke to the witnesses, investigated the case and kept a print. Wow. And we also went to the exact location with the drone. We filmed at the 99.99% sure it's the exact location where the photograph was taken.

The fence lines up perfectly, the tree, the location, absolute match. And then getting his take and then getting the guys that worked with the guys that took the photograph in 1990. What happened to them? It's unbelievable. Do we know if that crash? They kill that story. I'm sorry. I was going to say, do we know if that craft was ever seen again, that diamond-shaped craft?

Was that ever witnessed again after that photo was taken? Not, okay, so not by civilians, but it's funny because there's actually a gentleman, I don't know, let's see if he's comfortable with me revealing this, but he's in my movie. He's a military guy, intelligence. And he said that he was stationed abroad in 1990 and that he saw this craft. And I went, wait a minute. Did it look like this? And then I showed him the photograph in the Calvin photograph.

And he goes, yes, except it was darker. Oh, wow. So he might be willing to talk about that publicly, but until I haven't gotten a green light on him. But he definitely witnessed it in an official capacity on duty in Europe in 1990. And I don't know the exact month of it. Wow. Okay. That's wild.

Well, I wonder what you make up personally, because I alluded to earlier, we were both in D.C. for the recent congressional hearings, Nancy Mays, Tim Burchett, Jerry Moskowitz, everybody who's on that panel, if you will. And I wonder what you make out of the interest from Congress, namely Timberchette, who's in the film. Now, they have an obvious reason to be interested being on the Oversight Committee. They want to know where all this is coming from. Is it, you know, some type of dark money that's being used that they don't know that the government is spending money on. Taxpayer money is going towards this. But I personally, with the exception of someone like Senator Harry Reid, I personally don't remember such a push.

from D.C. and Congress in general towards disclosure, towards getting answers. So what do you make of this modern day push that we're seeing from people like Tim Burchett and Nancy Mays? You know, one of the things that I got to go for the first time in 30 years to attend that hearing. Thank you, Michael Schellenberger for the invite. And, you know, look, a lot of people say, oh, nothing new was learned. and I was disappointed or whatever. But we're having open congressional hearings on the topic of UFOs.

People testifying under oath, the consequences of testifying under oath, I believe is prison time if you lie. That's right. Yeah. And so to have military folks, Tim Gailladette, was an admiral. I can never pronounce his name correctly. I'm sorry if I got that wrong. Is it Galadette?

Yeah, that's, that's what I've heard pronounce me for. And that's what I say. So we'll both say Gallaudet. That's fine. Okay. All right. So testifying under oath. And then particularly, you know, with Lou Elizondo also, again, testifying under oath that there's a crash retrieval program.

I mean, that's that in itself is a kind of a big deal, you know. And I don't think that that should be, that can be overstated. But it was also really refreshing to see, you know, people like Moscovich and Garcia and Mace and Luna and Burchett working together, you know. And the civility of it all, that was so refreshing. I'd like to see more of that. Yeah. It's something that actually, as I was sitting there, and I wonder if you had the same feeling during the hearing, I thought to myself, if I didn't know the party of each representative, I wouldn't know

which one's Republican, which one's a Democrat, as they're asking questions. Like, there was no really, it was, it was, it was great. Yeah. And, you know, in whatever your politics are, you know, Urtette is one of the most amazing individuals I've ever in terms of a politician I've ever hung out. He's so genuine, he's so real. He's so likable. And I love the fact that he's super kind to people across the aisle. I think we need more of that. And hats off to his efforts. Obviously, you know, Mace and Garcia and Luna and all the rest of them are, you know, I'm really encouraged by the fact that they're

willing to put their necks out and keep digging on the behalf of the. rest of us. And this is pure speculation, but it's just a question that kind of popped into my head. What do you think of the timing of it, though? Because that's something that I've wondered to myself, and I've asked some other people on the show, the timing of why the push now, actually I've, I've spoken to Nick Pope about this, about why the push now that we've really haven't seen before in modern day politics. I mean, do you have a feel on that? Well, yeah. I mean, people go, oh, it's really weird. Like, suddenly the government, decided to, you know, be more transparent on this topic they've been lying about for, you know, 75 plus years.

I don't know exactly the amount of time. But actually, it really boils down to a couple of individuals that decided there was too much secrecy and found a loophole and walked those tapes out of the Pentagon and onto the front page of the New York Times. And I don't think, you know, maybe perhaps we didn't realize at the time, but the dam broke. the amount of coverage that we got. And I just don't think they're going to put the genie back in the bottle. And if it's true, which, you know, people, folks like myself and I'm sure you and others believe it's true and that there is a crash retrieval program. And I don't believe that just because of David Crush testifying under oath. I believe that because what he said aligns with my research in the field, particularly Virginia and Roswell, but also Kingman and Kexburg.

and a number of other cases. So I just don't think they're going to, I think that, you know, I cover this in the program a bit, you know, like what happened after 2020, sorry, 2017, and then they started having closed door, private meetings, classified meetings, and that eventually led to Andre Carson with the first congressional hearing in over 50 years.

Then it led to, you know, the second congressional hearing was at 2023 in just. July with David Brush and then another one in 2024. There's a momentum happening now. And it's, look, whether you believe it or if you don't believe it, if true, it's the biggest story of the, in modern history. So it's too important to let go. Hey, guys.

So before we get back into the conversation, I just want to talk about something that affects all of us. And it's scary, starting something new, right? It's hard and it is kind of terrifying because you think about all the work that goes into it. Are you going to be able to succeed? What new challenges am I going to face? It's that uncertainty. But I know how that is because I can think back when I started UAP.

I was just hoping for the best. And it's just like that when you're starting your own business. That's why Shopify is so great and why I'm so happy to be able to talk about them. Because despite all the fears and hesitations when starting something new, it certainly helps to have a partner like Shopify on your side to help. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Death Wish Coffee, Brooke Linnon, and Kylie. But what if people haven't heard about your brand?

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Go to Shopify.com slash UAP. That's Shopify.com slash UAP. Hi, you're listening to Meditating with Jan from Toyota. Soften your focus and visualize yourself offroading in a Tacoma. Now engage your senses. What do you hear? A donkey. Because you're driving the kids to a farm sanctuary in a Grand Highlander.

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of, you know, go get them? We need, we need stuff like this out there when it comes to the release of the program. It's really funny. I haven't revealed this publicly, but at that time, when I was in DC the day after, I think it was the day after the hearings, I was invited into the office of Arrow. Oh. All anomaly, all domain anomalous resolution office. I always, yeah, I always forget it too. Sometimes I have to look it up. Slow way.

All domain anomalous resolution office. Good luck with the resolution part of it. Right. Right. Right. Yes. Underline resolution. Yeah, they got to meet with the new head of Arrow, John Koskloski, Pskoloski, and another gentleman, Kevin, Air Force Office, AFOS special investigations.

And I literally, it was crazy because I had to get a 48-hour background check, and then they gave me, like, the special pass. I go through all the metal detectors, and then these cylindrical glass tube things with a door on one side that opens, only one person can walk in at a time. And then you walk in and there's another part opens and you walk through. That's wild. And then get to the skiff just like in the movies, like men in black or something, this big door, you know, opens up. Oh, my God, I'd leave all my electronics outside. Wow. Take me in this skip.

And we start talking openly. I was sitting down with both these guys. And, you know, they're in suits. And I said, you know, you guys got to throw us a bone here. because we're not going away. When's your movie coming out? I said, it's coming out in December. He was like, oh, boy.

I said, you could have your, you can have, it was very nice. We were very kind to each other. It was not, you know, I mean, we were being, we were just people talking, right? And I said, you know, you do realize, you know, that despite the fact that the vast majority can be explained, there is a core residual percentage of these things.

It's probably non-human intelligence. They didn't, they didn't like. deny any of that what what the new head of arrow said to me and he goes you can say this publicly i can't part my hair without the dod approving it first so that seems kind of the way that's set up seems a little odd that he's given the clearances to go out and find out what's going on but he can't say anything without approval from the dod first so that's i don't know that should Was he telling me that because he felt like this needs to be known that my hands are tied? Right.

And he said, you can say that we had this meeting. You can say this. And so this is the first time I'm saying it. But you know, for Congress to put, you know, to create arrow and put this guy in charge and then his hands are tied, let's say if he does find out that a certain percentage of these are, you know, originate from a non-human intelligence. He cannot disclose that without the DOD approval at first. Wow. So do you feel like it's, and I guess, I mean, Lou Elizondo has kind of alluded to this in the past when he was at ATIP. Do you feel like there is a handcuffing situation going on where it's like, okay, these offices are made, go ahead and investigate it. We'll put a face on and say that we're looking into it. But then when it comes to the higher ups and, for example, the DOD, they're the ones really calling the shots in the end. And it's kind of like tying one hand behind your back while you're trying to, you know, drive with two hands. I don't know. I mean, it's, it's, it's.

It just seems like to me, and I wonder if it does to you, that they put this out there, Arrow. It's kind of like the face of saying we're investigating it, but they're not really letting them come to a resolution, the R in Arrow. You know, the first congressional hearing with Congressman Andre Carson, and that was great. You know, a lot of people couldn't complain that it was a big nothing burger, but it's a little more than that. And the fact that we were even having congressional hearings, but you look at what the two intel, folks pulled out to share with the general public. And it was like the most like degraded, ambiguous, like horrible UFO photos or, you know.

And I'm watching that. I'm going to wait a minute, I've just met with four Intel folks that were part of the UAP task force that have gone in the film talking about this 4K high resolution. incredible shots of these objects going in and out of the ocean, flying through the atmosphere, coming down from space, like satellite imagery, flare footage, 4K, that they've seen it.

They've told me that on camera that they've seen it, willing to pass it, take a polygraph, right? And then I see what they roll out in the congressional hearings. You know, granted it was a start of something, I guess. But I was like, oh, come on, guys, you can do better than that. But who's telling them what they can and cannot do? Yeah. But it's important, very important for the general public to know because people go, oh, great, another another documentary that's, you know, all talk and know, like, I want that definitive photograph. Yeah, we all do. Of course we do. But how are you supposed to go after something you don't know exists? So we make the argument that this stuff exists. In fact, there's one individual that appears in my film anonymously.

we're not going to say whether he's active or not but he actually says where the stuff is in the film is that right he yeah he says where you can find it yeah wow yeah and and i remember i remember i was sitting in this gift with these guys and he had sipper and access to was it sipper and what's the other one um trying to bet there's two one one of them was more secret than the other. Yeah, that's true.

He had the computer right there, and he told me like this, and I remember thinking, can be like, go on here? I'll tell you with what limited knowledge I have. I think I could probably help you find this stuff. That's funny. Wow.

So that must have been quite the experience? I mean, had you ever been in front of Arrow or in a skiff talking with this stuff? No. No. No, I hadn't been to skiff. Wow. No.

It was incredible. Yeah, it was very surreal. Yeah. So they are taking seriously, at least we can say that. Well, there's another thing that he said to me that you cannot work for error without having watched the phenomenon first.

Oh, is that right? Yep. That's fantastic. And he goes, God, that case in Africa, the landing in Africa, I was like, yeah, it's incredible. Right? He goes, wow.

Isn't it funny? You would never expect. You know, you're sitting there, you think you're going to talk to you, a buttoned up. And then, like, they end of being fans of what you've done. So it must be very funny. Real people.

That's one thing that we seem to forget is people are people, man. there's real people. And they, you know, I'm sure some of them have good intentions. I don't know about Sean Kirkpatrick, but others have good intentions. But in some cases, their hands are tied and they can't just, you know, act unilaterally or, you know, and there are consequences for violating national security, a real consequences. I mean, I've talked to people. They go, look, man, I'll, I'll just go to jail. And there'll be no due process to national security issue. It's pick me up and plot me behind bars. That's no joke. I mean, that's what they've told me. So, you know, the consequences are real. Absolutely. And that's why I give so much credit to people like Jason

Sands, you know, believe him, believe him or not. I do know, you know, personally, he's having a lot of trouble when it comes to repercussions of coming out and talking. I'm sure you know as well. Jason Sands will do a, take a polygraph tomorrow publicly, by the way. Yeah. Because you didn't right. I will. So would Sean Kirkpatrick take a polygraph? I doubt it. I don't think so. I highly doubt that. Jason Sands will. That's a great point.

Only, man, unbelievable. This is flown by, James. Thanks so much for doing this here on UAP today. In the last few minutes that we have, I just wanted to kind of bring up some of the current things happening and kind of get your take on, as an observer, really, we have these drone, we're calling them, drone incursions over the UK recently.

That was going out for a few weeks over Lake and Heath and some other RF bases. and now most recently and most talked about, even in the mainstream media, which is quite something to see, are the incursions over New Jersey specifically. Now, they are talking about a little bit about possibly Brooklyn, maybe areas off the coast of Delaware, but New Jersey's been like the main hub of these, quote-unquote, drone incursions. What do you make of all this of what we're seeing here? You know, the case over the military base is of particular interest,

especially when they say they're scrambling F-16s and that these things go dark. right afterwards. That definitely piques my interest. However, I've got a friend that lives in New Jersey. I spoke to him this morning, and he's actually taking video footage and he's seen multi. He's at least 10 sightings. He said they're about the size of an SUV and then they make a lot of noise. But they do have a long loiter time. I mean, I fly drones professionally somewhat for my films. And, you know, I don't have like a super high-end drones, but I got pretty good, you know, on the higher end. right and I get 20, 25 minutes flight time. These things are up there for over two hours.

Wow. But they make noise and they make quite a bit of noise. So they seem to be a very sophisticated version of a drone that I have, but much larger. But again, you know, the jury's out on these. But it's definitely something weird going on. Yeah. And it seems at least on the.

surface that you have the FBI, you have Congress people who are confused. They seem baffled. I mean, just yesterday they're talking about drones following a Coast Guard ship and all these different things off the coast of New Jersey. I mean, it, like you said, something's happening. And I think it's a little bit concerning that we really don't have answers to this. And they actually seem legitimately confused. At least that's the way it's coming off to me. The fact that they're making noise in my book kind of eliminates the the bona fide uap aspect of it like a true UFO or true because you know a real UFO or uap exhibit of technology that seems to be sort of light years advanced for anything we have right no air disturbance little to no noise at all maybe a slight humming or

buzzing up close um hover uh accelerate from a standstill to add a sight and a blink of an eye, red angle turns at high speeds. I'm not seeing that. Now, is that the case over the military bases? Maybe it is, but I haven't from the people that I've spoken to in the videos that I have seen, I have not been able to quickly eliminate a conventional nature to the propulsion. Yeah. Well, it's absolutely something we're going to keep an eye on and see where this all goes. For sure, absolutely. And I'm not making any definitive statements. I'm just saying from what I've seen so far. But it's definitely bizarre. This is unprecedented. as far as I'm concerned.

Absolutely. No, for sure. Well, before we go here, James, let's talk about how everybody can see the program coming out Monday, December 16th. How can people see it? Can they pre-order it, everything like that? You know, I posted online on X at James C. Fox at James C. Fox, but it's Apple TV, iTunes, Vimeo.

is it Amazon there's a whole list but those are the primary people for now and it drops so what's the day today are we the 11th?

It is yeah so just a few days What are we talking? Five days from now? Five days. Wow. Oh my gosh. Just kind of hit you there like it's actually coming.

It's going to be a wild next two weeks. Well listen you are you're Welcome to come back on here anytime. It's been a real pleasure to finally get to talk to you on here on UAP. And if you like to, always love to have you back on after the program releases and in the future because we certainly know there's going to be no shortage of stories coming up in the future.

Hey, thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks. James Fox here on UAP. Thanks again to James Fox for coming on this show. That was really cool. Awesome discussion.

Great guy. And I look forward to have him on again, hopefully sometime in the future as well. I think that was a lot of fun. Some names, by the way, that I didn't get to. I wish we had a couple hours to talk because we could have kept going. But some names that I didn't get to that I wanted to ask him about that are in the film. He speaks to Gary McKinnon. We know him as the NASA Hacker.

So that should be really interesting. You see, Ryan Graves is interviewed in the movie. Leslie Keene, how put off, as well as Christopher Mellon and Dr. Gary Nolan. Bill Nelson is in there, NASA administrator. So a lot of big names that James talks to here in this new movie, the program that I'm looking forward to watching. And shame on me, he asked before we started. He said, you know, have you seen the movie?

Because, again, I'll admit this, they sent me like a prescreener thing for the movie. And I would figure, okay, I'm going to try to watch this movie before talking to him. And, yeah, never got around to doing that. So I had to admit to James Fox, a little behind the scenes, of saying, actually, no, I didn't get to watch. He's like, well, you didn't get to watch it yet. Come on. So that's my fault there. But I'm looking forward to seeing the program along with you coming out on December 16th where you can get it on Amazon, Roku. He mentioned some of the names there. Of course, Apple TV is one of the main things there, one of the mainstreaming platforms that's going to have this available. So I'm looking forward to watching along with you. I'm really looking forward to seeing Jason Sands in there just because I had developed a personal relationship with him over the past. six months or so. So I'm glad that his story finally gets to come out in this film. And you heard

James Fox saying at the end that Jason would take a polygraph test today. And I know some people give him a lot of flack for that story, but, you know, it is what it is. Like we always say, it's up to you. You make up your own mind here on UAP when it comes to all these stories. So Jason Sands, James Fox, whatever it is makes no difference. It's always up to you, what you make of it. But that was a lot of fun. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did here on episode 97 of of the UAP. But that will do it for now. I'll keep it short and sweet on this one because I'm going to finish up the Anthony Williams

episode to get that out to you tomorrow. So look forward to that as well. Hopefully you have time in between a little bit to enjoy these episodes. Or if you just want to jump right into it, by all means, whatever works for you. So make sure you follow along. Wherever you get your podcasts on Spotify, on Apple, wherever you find your podcast, Amazon, you can find UAP. Just search for that.

UAP on Identified Alien Podcast. And, of course, follow along on social media at UA Podcast 850 on Twitter, on TikTok, and on YouTube, it's at UA podcast. And I'm going to have this interview up, actually, the video version of my interview here with James Fox. I'll put that up in a few days. So that way you can see the video side of things when James and I had that interview, which was, again, a lot of fun.

But on tomorrow's episode, I will absolutely cover more of the recent events going on, of course, over New Jersey and everywhere else for that matter. But, of course, tomorrow on episode 98 with Anthony Williams, I'll go more into the current side of things like you were hearing me ask James Fox about New Jersey. I'll definitely dive into that a little bit deeper when it comes to tomorrow's episode as well. So a lot of great stuff. Hopefully you enjoy it right here on UAP. So until next time, until then, it's Stephen Deiner saying thank you again so much for joining.

And I'll talk to you again soon right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast. Thanks. Be well.