UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast - UAP Greatest Hits: Aliens in Hollywood? An Interview with Michael Ian Black

Episode Date: December 30, 2025

Is there an alien conspiracy in Hollywood? Do some movie makers know more than they let on and secretly use their films to fill in the public? Actor and comedian, Michael Ian Black, joins Stephen Diener to discuss that and much more. Including his own childhood experiences that he refers to as "dreams" and why he thinks his friends in the media didn't want to cover the Schumer amendment story. Listen here...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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anniversary of UAP. How about that? Three years of doing UAP. I'll talk about that a little bit more at the end of the episode, but it is my pleasure to be doing this for three years now, so thank you all so much for allowing me to do that.

But getting into this episode today to celebrate World UFO Day in the three-year anniversary, I get to do another really cool interview on UAP thought-provoking, fun, funny interview with Michael Ian Black, who is an actor, a comedian, a writer, and just a really cool guy. I really enjoy talking to him.

I think you're going to enjoy hearing his perspective on kind of like the show business end, but he does make it clear he's not really in the Hollywood scene, but he has all the experience with the Hollywood types. So cool to get his perspective from that end on how it's looked at from the show business angle and how he looks at it in his own personal experiences. Tell some great stories here during this episode.

during this interview and just again really thoughtful guy and a really thoughtful conversation that went in a different couple of directions that I was not expecting including maybe his own personal experience with the unknown when it comes to abduction now I was going to put that out there I know he and I went back and forth and it's a little bit and I respect his you know his opinion on what happened to him so I definitely let him have that answer but it's pretty interesting. So I'll let you decide for yourself on what you think might have happened to Michael Ian Black as a child when he explains the dreams that he had. But we do go into, you know, what type of

conspiracy, if any, is there in Hollywood. When it comes to what they know, what they tried to maybe leak out in some of their productions, the Phoenix Lights. We talk about Jason Sands, the Schumer Amendment, and how that was squashed in the media, and he saw it firsthand. And also the future of disclosure in Congress. We cover a lot of bases here during this interview. Again, a lot of fun and really interesting discussions. So I hope you enjoy it here. And when it's over, stick around for the end because, like I said, I'll talk more about the three-year anniversary of UEP. And I have some updates on some episodes coming up, including my new episode with Scott Roter, the crime scene investigator, or I should say crime scene reconstruction expert, who of course took on the Las Vegas

alien case. And you've heard a lot about that and seen a lot of that on. on Twitter specifically. And I know a lot of you've been asking, when are you going to talk to him again? When is he going to reveal these pictures that you keep talking about, that we've heard about that he has about these Las Vegas aliens? So I have the update and all that and more coming up at the end of the episode. But for now, enjoy this discussion with Michael Ian Black right here on UAP.

Really cool here. Thank you so much to Michael Ian Black for joining us here on UAP today. Of course, you know I'm actor, writer, comedian, and podcast host of his own podcast. podcast called Obscure. Michael, thanks so much for coming on here to UAP. This is great. My pleasure. Thanks for inviting me, Stephen. Yeah, of course. And so you and I have a mutual friend in Dan Harari. So I just want to give him a shout out real quick and connecting us. So I'm glad we were able to do this and bring you on here because I find it so fascinating with so many of the different topics when it comes to the UAP conversation where it kind of spills over into

Hollywood sometimes. You're one of those people in that conversation where it has. spilled over into the Hollywood scenes. So how much of that, you know, do you see kind of behind the scenes where the conversation takes place? Is it a lot, is it not as much? Nearly zero? Really? Zero.

However, I will say that I'm not really in the Hollywood community. I don't live there. I don't interact with a lot of show business people in my day-to-day life. But when I have talked about it on sets or wherever, most people have at best a passing familiarity with the topic. I would say like the level of interest and knowledge in the Hollywood community is probably roughly equivalent to the knowledge people have in any community other than say the military. But yeah, I mean, it's some people are interested. Some people aren't. Do you think there's a stigma at all, kind of like, you know, just in everyday society where other

actors or comedians might not want to talk about it because there's that stigma like people feel like I'm going to be crazy or is it just kind of just not really a thing as much? Well, the good thing about actors and comedians, sometimes to a fault, is that I think we tend to be a little bit more open-minded about all subjects. So, for example, like, you know, there'll be a lot of actresses in particular who are like into astrology. And I'm like, okay. But, you know, there's a lot of new agey people in that community, but that doesn't necessarily equate to UFOs or anything like that. In terms of stigma? No, I don't think there's a stigma. And in fact, I would say, like, in my day-to-day life, when I talk about this, I don't really sense any pushback. For the most part, I feel like the topic

has become so mainstreamed over the last few years that people are at least vaguely aware that the topic is kind of in the ether and so are maybe more willing to engage than they would have been, say, 10 years ago. Yeah, it's interesting you say that because I've noticed. I've noticed, that too, right? Even with just coming out with this show over the past few years of where the conversation started when it started three years ago to now, it is. It feels like it's a lot more open. It's in the news more. Is that kind of what led you down the path of becoming interested in this? Or is that something that you've been, this is something you've been really intrigued by for a long time? I've been interested in it for as long as I can remember. I mean, ever since childhood,

I mean, I distinctly remember having a two kind of nearly identical UFO dreams when I was like, bore. So this would have been pre-Star Wars, pre-Close encounters. So, yeah, it's just something I've always been fascinated with and by. So that's really interesting because you talk about having dreams at a young age. age about this topic and you weren't influenced by things like Star Wars and close encounters. So where do you think that came from? And do you think that was more than a dream or was it just something kind of maybe popped into your head? So I'm going to say I think it was just a dream.

Are you sure? Because you don't sound sure. I think that. It is curious that I would have those dreams and remember them so specifically and the fact that they were nearly identical. I had them twice. They were nearly identical. The fact that I still remember them to me is a curiosity, but I'm definitely not willing to go beyond that. So the reason I ask that is because I definitely respect where you're coming from on that. So by all means, but I can't help but to be intrigued by that because I always hear so many

different stories, just like I'm sure you have about abduction cases where it might come across as a dream. It always happens at an early age. In fact, I spoke to Snooki from Jersey Shore. She was on here a few months ago. She's great. So shout out to her. She's a fan of the show.

And I was blown away when I spoke to her because she told her own abduction story. Really? And she had never told it before. And she told it as kind of just like what you were saying. She had a dream as a child. She was around nine or 10 years old. And she remembers being on this ship surrounded by aliens. and they put something in her back.

And then she like shot up out of the dream, she says. And when she woke up, she could actually feel something at the base of her spine. And to this day, she actually showed me the picture. She could, you can see there's still a mark there. So when you talk about having that dream, I started wondering, I'm like, wait a minute. Did Michael Liam Black have a similar experience at a young age? Well, look, I've asked myself that question and can come up with absolutely zero. evidence to suggest that it was anything more than a dream.

Fair enough. Have you ever considered regression therapy? Have you ever spoken to anybody who's gone through that before? I've thought about it, but I have never pursued it. See, now I'm going down a rabbit hole with your story because I wasn't expecting. I'm so intrigued by this. Now I'm like, holy cow, this, you might have had a real experience here. But so, but because of that, this really kind of led you down the path of always being interested.

in the subject. Well, so even then my memory is, and obviously memories are fallible, particularly at that age, even then I remember feeling like that this was a kind of, it wasn't such an unfamiliar topic to me. You know what I mean? Like even then when I was having that dream, like I was aware kind of of what I was looking at. So it must have been, I must have been aware of sort of the pop culture of it at an early age. But yeah, that, that's, that's as far as I'm even willing to speculate. I mean, as far as I know, no, nothing like that has ever happened to me.

Because you don't remember anything else since then. I mean, or have you had any other like, you know, vivid dreams about this since that or just, just that one time? No, well, it was two times, and they were close to, they were relatively close together chronologically, but not since then. What do you make of the connection? And I've been kind of investigating this when it comes to, you know, abduction cases or dreams like this. The connection to visions of animals, owls specifically. Have you come across stuff like that just in your own time? In my reading, sure, of course. I mean, I just read my, um, my, McClellan's book. I might be getting his name wrong. Oh shoot, what is it called? I literally just read it. But he writes about owls all the time. And the way synchronicity seems to be connected to owls. And Darren from exo academic was talking about this, like the synchronicity storm that he had that involved owls. Whitley Stryber obviously talks about owls. I don't understand what the connection.

to owls is. I mean, I know people speculate that it's some sort of masking filter. I don't know. I have no experience with owls. It's good to know. So no owls in the dreams of Michael Ian Black then. No, no owls. Do you remember real quick, last thing on this, because I'm just so fascinated by it. Do you remember what you saw in that dream? I mean, as far as figures being. Only vaguely. So I was living in Illinois. That's how I know of Mike A. because I remember sort of where we were living.

And I'd left there by the time I was five. And I know that we're living in a townhouse and behind the townhouse was sort of like a almost like a gully, but like planted with grass and stuff. And I remember that the dream took place there. And there was some sort of craft on the ground. I think it was saucer shaped. And in my memory, there were beings. and I feel like they were small.

But again, like memory is so fallible that it's, it's hard for me to give you a much better description than that. And I felt like I was observing it, but wasn't like a part of it necessarily. And nearly the same exact dream recurred very shortly after that. Really interesting. That's good stuff. I appreciate that. Kind of going down a conspiracy theory.

I love a good conspiracy theory. Yes, good. I'm right there with you. Because this is one that just kind of pops into my mind sometimes. When I see just as a consumer, right, when I see different movies or shows come out, whether it's, you know, Independence Day or even going back, you know,

with Close Encounters of the Third Kind, the alien movies, all these different things in pop culture. I can't help but to think sometimes that there is an element of we're telling you something, we're kind of slow dripping information because we know a little bit more than we're letting on here in Hollywood

when it comes to different producers or directors or writers. Do you think there's anything like that going on or has been going on over the years where they're trying to give us little hints on things because there's some more information that they know behind the scenes? Obviously, I've come across this idea before.

And my best guess is no, in the direct way that you mean, meaning like, no, I don't think the CIA, I'll just use a hyperbolic example. No, I don't think the CIA is running a movie studio and sort of drip, drip, drip, dripping information to the masses through popular entertainment. However, I do think that the, that Hollywood tends to reflect

the sort of public gestalt. And when we see an increase, in movies about aliens or alien invasions or the mysticism around aliens, like in contact. I think that tends to be reflecting certain amorphous truths that exist in the culture. I also think it's certainly possible that there are times when somebody, say, Steven Spielberg, is making close encounters, for example, if he does his research, maybe he talks to people in the intelligence community and they give him some information that may or may not be true and may or may not be pertinent. I think those conversations happen,

but no, I don't believe that there's anybody directing Hollywood to produce science fiction films for the purposes of slow disclosure. So just to be clear then, Stephen Spielberg and Michael Bay are not CIA operatives. No, they're part of the Majestic 12th. Okay. I'm glad we can clear that up. Thank you very much. Also, kind of sticking on that subject, though, when it comes to, like, other actors and people in the industry, what do you think about the story of Kurt Russell going back to the Phoenix Lights, 1997? He told the story, forgive me, I think it was on Jimmy Kimmel.

I forget which night show it was on, but he told the story about he apparently was the first one to call that in, flying his plane and seeing the Phoenix Lights in 1990. Well, I mean, it's cool that he was an eyewitness to that event. It's cool that he called it in. You know, I've never heard a satisfactory explanation for the Phoenix Lights. Obviously, obviously thousands of people witnessed it, including Kurt Russell. I've never heard anything that comes close to being a satisfying explanation for what that could have been. Because the size of it is enormous. And it seems like the initial, what the initial debunk was like, oh, it's flares.

It wasn't flares. People saw this thing traveling horizontally across space. And it was massive. I have no idea. I mean, I feel like that's one of the great cases. I'm with you on that because I feel like when it comes to mass sightings, that's got to be one of the top ones. I mean, think about that. And like you said, the debunk of flares, there's just.

no way because flares eventually descend. They eventually kind of fizzle out. Like you said, that was moving across the sky. The more more kept popping up. It was to this day, like you said, there's no real explanation for that. And you had, it was the governor of Arizona or it was the mayor of, it was the governor, right, where he came out in the alien mask and they played a joke about it. But later on, I think just a few years ago, he said in an interview, he apologized for that

because he saw it too and he still has no explanation for it. Yeah, exactly. I mean, look, I understand. I don't understand. Actually, his thinking at the time. I think it was faulty and bad. Fife Symington, I believe his name is. Yes.

He later claimed I was just trying to like make sure the public wasn't panicked or whatever. But really, I think what was going on is the more obvious answer, which is that he was worried about being ridiculed. And he was worried about the stigma for himself personally. So even though he personally saw it, he decided to make fun of it as a kind of cover your own ass political move so that he wouldn't be, you know, the target of ridicule and scorn. Yeah, I know it's wild. See, again, right, going back to the stigma idea, right? And of course, stigma is a lot different in 1997 than it is now because it has become more mainstream, more people are open to it. Yeah.

And the fact that he owned up to it later, I think really indicates the way that the stigma has kind of dissipated over the. the last couple decades. Yeah, absolutely. What do you make, and this is purely speculation. So, I mean, there's really no right answer to this. But what do you make of mass sightings, right? So we have Phoenix Lights in 1997. We have the mass siting in Zimbabwe, the school children who saw the UFO essentially

land, you know, in the back of the school. And they all saw the beings. They all describe it the same way and a lot of other different mass sightings. So two questions. Why do you think those happen? And why do you think they don't happen more? Well, in terms of why they happen, it's because something appears and a bunch of people see it. That would be my best guess as to why they have.

In the simplest terms, yes. As to why they don't happen more, I actually think that's a really good question. Part of it, I think, may have to do, I mean, I think there's a lot of theories that could explain it. First is, they may not want it to happen more. The second is a lot of the earth is unpopulated by humans. So things that are happening in remote areas may not be seen, particularly over the water. And other than that, I don't know. I wish they would happen more.

I wish more people were seeing these things. Because the mass sightings tend to be, I think, really good evidence for something. It's one thing to have a single person with a single camcorder or a single witness or even a handful of witnesses. It's quite another to have thousands of people witnessing the same thing. Then again, we've seen a lot of mass sightings in the past that really haven't generated any particular movement towards disclosure or even particular public interest. I'm thinking of the sightings in Washington, D.C. in 1952. Mass sightings, mass sightings of something just hanging out in the Capitol where it wasn't supposed to be, where it legally wasn't allowed to be. Everybody saw it. It was well reported. The Air Force held a press conference about it. And then it just sort of went away.

So I don't know. I don't know how persuasive actually, as I think about it, mass sightings actually are. Because people have such a fixed worldview. So when the Phoenix thing happens, people go, wow, that's really interesting and weird. And then they forget about it. They don't take the next step and go, it's interesting and weird and it's true, and therefore, something is occurring that I don't understand. Once people get to that cognitive dissonance of I don't understand, I suspect most people are happy to sort of file it away in their unknown box in their brains and move on with their lives. And that's a perfectly viable thing to do, I think. Like most people are busy.

They don't want to spend a lot of time going down. the UFO rabbit hole because, as you and I both know, you will never escape from that rabbit hole. That's correct. And it just gets deeper and deeper. You think you have something figured out. And then you're like, wait, now there's 10 other questions because I found this out. That's right. It is the truest sort of rabbit hole. I mean, except the rabbit holes end. This is just a journey to the bottom of the earth. This is just an infinite tunnel. It's a wormhole. I don't know what the hell it is. But there is no end to it. And in fact, as you just said, the more that gets revealed, it doesn't solve anything.

It just opens up a whole other panoply of questions. Yeah, it's so true. And, you know, when it comes to things like that, because it kind of to your answer with the first question of why do we think it happens, see, my mind goes towards the conspiratorial where I think, well, it doesn't happen more because like you said, maybe they don't, who's they, right? But maybe they don't want it to happen more. But maybe it does happen at all because they do want it to happen.

I mean, do you think those are. when we do have mass sightings? Is that, or am I going to off the rail? Well, I mean, I have to believe that if these craft are intelligently controlled, then we have to assume that they understand, at least in a vague way, the kind of geopolitics of this country, I mean, of this planet, sort of who's the dominant life form on this planet? And so they must be aware that if they show up in Phoenix in 1997, that dominant life form is going to look at it and wonder what the hell it is. They may not care, but my guess is they're at least aware of it. Yeah, that's really interesting idea to consider, I think. So who knows when the next mass siting will be? You can call

the Tic Tac sightings. That's a mass sighting. I mean, you've got all these sailors. You've got all this radar data. You've got all, you know, you've got so much corroborative evidence. And, then there's congressional testimony, and even that hasn't moved the needle particularly. I mean, yes, people are kind of aware of it. And yes, we hear rumblings that are going on in Congress and behind the scenes and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But it has progressed the conversation incrementally, but I wouldn't say it has risen as a topic to the top of the charts the way I want it to be discussed. And I understand why there's a lot of pressing earthly problems that we have to deal with.

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ask it this way the first hearing right David Fraver and Grush and Ryan Graves did you find that useful in the disclosure movement and do you think a second one would be useful as I found it incredibly useful for a number of reasons. First of all, the fact that they went under oath, and these are military guys going under oath. They don't take that lightly, you know. These guys, I don't know how many military dudes you know. I've known many in my life, and they mean it, you know. None of those guys, no commander, naval commander, is going to get up in front of Congress and lie, unless it's like about a bribe that he took or something, but not about something like this.

So it was incredibly useful to have all of that on the congressional record for a number of reasons. First of all, just hearing them tell their story, I think for the public watching, very important. Having them do that under oath, very important, having them be questioned by sometimes skeptical congresspeople. Very important. How do they answer? Do they seem credible? Yes, they do. Very important. Grush's testimony is obviously the bombshell testimony. From everything that I know about Grush, he's a straight shooter. He's an incredibly straight arrow. There's zero percent of me that believes that guy is in any way lying.

However, that does not mean that he is in possession of the truth. I do think it's possible that as Kirkpatrick said, that Grush's testimony is the result of kind of circular conversations happening within a small community of believers. I do think that's possible. However, I don't think it's probable. I think Grush and the people that he was in contact with if Grush's testimony is to be believed and I'm inclined to believe it until there's evidence to suggest I shouldn't. According to Grush's testimony, he spoke to firsthand witnesses. So unless 40 people were directly lying to Grush, people who didn't necessarily know each other or have some sort of coordinated agenda, then I don't understand why people wouldn't take that testimony seriously.

It was incredibly important, compelling testimony from Grush. Yeah, I think that's a great point. And I want to ask you, what do you make out of some of these whistleblowers, whether it's Grush or whether, have you heard of Jason Sands? I don't know. So Jason Sands is someone that I've actually spoken to recently. I've had fortunate enough for him to reach out. And we've had a couple of conversations.

Very fascinating guy. I personally believe what he's telling me just because of the conversations that we've had. And when it comes to Grush, he said basically that he gave a lot of that information to Grush that we heard from Grush. Jason Sands being a firsthand witness saying that he came across this alien in the desert by the Nellas Range. What do you make out of some of that stuff? I mean, do you think there's something there? My instinct is always, my instinct is always to believe that the person speaking is telling the truth as they understand it. So somebody had an anomalous experience.

They relay that anomalous experience to the best of their ability. And my inclination is to believe that they believe that. But because this is such a complicated, nuanced topic, I don't necessarily automatically agree with their conclusions about what happened or what they saw, nor do I necessarily believe that their memory, as my own memory is fallible, is infallible. So in the case of Jason Sands, which I'm, you know, familiar enough with, the answer is, I don't know. I do believe that he had something happened to him. I do believe the events as he described them, at least in terms of the alien being that he encountered,

I do believe that he believes he's telling the truth. Now, then you go to, you know, he was making some sort of vague allusions to a 20 and back program that he was a part of. And you go, well, wait, hold on a second, because now you're going into that he was part of a program that there is no evidence that I've seen, that it again. exists. There's certainly been theories about it. And so I take that with a massive grain of salt, not because I necessarily think he's lying in the sense that he's intentionally trying to deceive, but because I need way, way more before I'm willing to take him at his word on that. Yeah, totally understood. I mean, who do you think, is a name like Jason Sands, someone that you would like to see on a second congressional hearing, or who do you think should be up there? Because this came

up a few days ago I was talking to some people. And I asked the question. I posed. I said, would you be satisfied or disappointed with the same three names up on the stand? Or do you think we need, and I don't mean this in a bad way, but do you think we need new blood up there? Just because it would be repetitive otherwise. It would be repetitive to have those three witnesses back in front of the committee, unless it was augmented with other witnesses. And, you know, and unless it was further augmented by better evidence than they were able to provide in their testimony. You know, it's very frustrating for people like me, lay people who will listen to a grush talk, and he will be asked a specific question, and he will say, I'll have to talk to you about that in a classified setting.

So we understand why that might be necessary, but it doesn't, for the lay person and for the general public, unfortunately, it doesn't help the cause, you know, because what is preventing so many people from being willing to embrace this narrative is the lack of physical evidence. So I do think it would be helpful to have, I don't know about Jason Sand specifically, I'm not opposed to it, but to have as many of those 40 whistleblowers that Grush says he spoke to in front of that committee with immunity protection, just spilling the beans. I'm just very dubious that will ever happen. I know.

We can only hope, right? I mean, what do you think, I guess, a kind of a twofold question here as far as what some of these Congress people actually know, rights, as far as, you know, coming from a place of sincerity, whether it's a Jared Moskowitz or Tim Burchett, or even in the Senate with Mark Rubio and Chuck Schumer. And these are names that are on opposite sides of the aisle, right? We have Democrats or Republicans both with all those names. So number one, do you think they're coming from a place of sincerity? And do you think that what don't they know? I mean, are they really left in the dark here when it comes to this information? Obviously, I don't know. I'm not a

Washington insider. I'm not a politician. I have no idea. My speculation, as informed as it can be, which some people may say is not very informed at all, is this. Burchett, Luna, Moskowitz, and, let's say, Gates. I would expect are not as read in on this as Rubio and Schumer and rounds. For the simple fact that they're not, they're not, the, the, the house people that I just mentioned aren't nearly as senior. and don't have those kinds of high-ranking committee assignments. I don't think. I could be wrong about that, but I don't think.

Whereas Rubio Schumer rounds are part of the Senate Intelligence Committee in rounds. And Schumer in particular, I believe, are in the gang of eight. So they are privy to the most highly sensitive U.S. secrets. Again, I could be wrong about the details of some of this. So please don't hold me to it. What's particularly interesting to me about what happened in the last year, fascinating actually, was Schumer and Rounds introduction of the UAP Disclosure Act? Because in particular Schumer, I didn't understand why Chuck Schumer the arguably second most

Democrat, the second most important Democrat in the country, maybe the third most, however you wanted to find it. Why would that guy risk his reputation on a bill that talks about disclosure of non-human intelligence? Why would he do that? And is it possible for him to do that without the blessing of the White House? I have to believe the answer is no, because if there's nothing to this, it would make one of Biden's chief allies look like an utter fool. So why the hell did they introduce this and fight for it so hard? He said it's because of his friendship with Harry Reid and that legacy. And I'm like, there's something more going on here. And Schumer and rounds are trying to pry open that box lid. That to me was the most interesting story of the last year in terms of UFOs, was just

the introduction of that amendment, which to me personally amounted to disclosure. To me, that was soft disclosure. That's a really good point. And even kind of going back to, you know, mass sightings, like that in its own kind of way was almost like a mass siding because for every reason you just said when it comes to Chuck Schumer standing and everything that he has to lose by coming out for an amendment like that in the NDAA, it was almost like that, you know, oh shoot moment where people see that in the news, it was a big story. And they all have the same reaction like you.

But it wasn't a big story. That's the thing. It was a big story in the UFO community. Like everybody was talking about in the UFO world, but in the mainstream world, I could, nobody was interested. In fact, when it was being killed, when it was in the process of being killed, I texted with a very well-known journalist to pay attention to this, to try to cover it. and that very well-known journalist could not have been more condescending. Oh, no. Not in a mean way. It's a very nice person.

Yes. But was like, yeah, okay, Michael, sure. You got it, Michael. You know, like the stigma was very present in that person's forehead. But to me, it's like, to me and to you and to everybody else in this community, it's a massive story to people outside of this community. It didn't register at all. That's a good point, right?

Because I think you're right. When I say big story, I am, I'm thinking in terms where we're kind of like insulated, right, in this community. And when you have something come out in the news, like even within the past couple weeks, Dr. Michael Masters from Harvard, that made kind of the national headlines when he has the paper come out, you know, aliens amongst us. But when it comes to the Schumer Amendment, yeah, why do you think that is? What do you think the reasons are? And this is kind of a complex question that keeps. disclosure kind of in the you know down in the belly is it more than one reason is it religion is it's you know government contracts is it because of crimes over the past 80 years one of those all

the above like what what do you see from all this i think it's all of the above i mean i think it's everything it's you know it's whatever that cia report was in the 50s basically saying discredit anybody who believes this stuff and it's trickled down since then you know that the the the evidence for for the existence of something is overwhelming and voluminous. I don't even think there's any debate about that anymore. Like I've I've totally moved on from the, are UFOs real question? To me, that question is now settled.

But the conversation in the mainstream continues to be unable to move past that question. And so we're still in the mindset of our flying saucers real. And I think that's deliberate as well in terms of people trying to slow down disclosure, which at this point to me feels inevitable. I mean, I think actual disclosure, capital D disclosure, sort of feels inevitable. The nature of that disclosure, I think, is still very much up in the air. So in some ways we've already had disclosure. So Kirkpatrick, for example, says there's no evidence of any extraterrestrial. blah, blah, blah, blah. But then in the next breath says, but we've got these orbs flying over Mosul and all

over the planet. Nobody understands what the hell they are. Okay. So what are you saying, bro? What are you saying? So is he saying there's no evidence of extraterrestrial technology, but we've got these orbs. Dot, dot, dot. These orbs aren't extraterrestrial, but they're also not the technology of any known nation. What are you saying? And I think disclosure is kind of going to happen like that, sort of piecemeal, this thing, that thing, that thing, the other. I do not anticipate, although I hope I'm wrong, anybody getting up in front of the cameras, any world leader or collection of world leaders, which would be ideal, to get up in front of microphones and say we're making a joint statement, we're aware of these craft, we don't know what they are, they're not

ours, they're not anybody else's. We've determined that they are the construction of some sort of non-human intelligence. I don't anticipate that happening anytime soon. It's a great segue actually to my next question because I was just about to say, what do you think disclosure would look like, right? I mean, I think it's different to everybody. The word disclosure, it means a lot of things. It's very layered. So what do you think it would look like? What is that moment that would be satisfactory enough to the UFO community where we could say it's finally happened? So capital D disclosure, I think would mean that it was literally the president getting up and saying aliens are real, or non-human intelligence is real, let's call it that.

That's what I think the UFO community wants in terms of capital D disclosure. And we all know the problems with that. We all understand that once you say those words, once a president of the United States or, you know, the secretary, general of the UN or whatever. Once somebody says those words, the game has now changed for the planet. And the repercussions of it, although it has been studied a lot, I think remain unknown. The sort of secondary effects, I think, are complicated in terms of, okay, so who's in possession of this stuff? Where does it come? Like just all the questions that immediately arise from that statement

so quickly overwhelm the global conversation. I think, I think, I just think it's so unlikely to happen because of all the sort of wild card variables that are going to be thrown into humanity once somebody makes that announcement, which is why, I think, where it's experiencing that kind of lower D slow disclosure of drips and drabs, dribs and drabs, drips and drabs, dribs and dribs. For me, disclosures already happened. Like for me, with the introduction of Schumer and Rounds's bill, that's disclosure to me. That's them basically saying, yeah, there's something out there. We think it's some sort of non-human intelligence. We don't know what it is. It may be in the hands of private contractors, but there's something to this. We need to understand it better.

To me, that was disclosure. The more formal disclosure, I don't anticipate ever happening. Unless, unless, you know, some external force makes it impossible for it not to happen. For example, an Independence Day scenario, which I also don't anticipate happening. So Will Smith and Randy Quaid aren't going to be flying up into the air to save us from aliens? You don't see that one? Oh, no, no, no, no. If disclosure happens, I fully expect Will Smith and Randy Quaid to save us.

No misunderstand. That's perfect. That makes me feel better. What is, and, you know, a few more minutes here, Michael, I really appreciate you spending all this time here on UAP today. I really enjoyed this. What is one of the things that kind of like sticks in your mind, right? If you're doing your podcast, right, if you're on obscure and you're talking about these things, what's one of the main questions you end up asking yourself or just in a conversation when it comes to this topic?

So for me, and I think for a lot of people in this community, the actual nuts and bolts UFO is the least compelling part of this story. In a very, like, I almost don't care about the craft. What I care about is what the existence of these things tells us about our own history, about the nature of reality, about the larger phenomenon and how it relates to, UFOs and then all the sort of esoteric related questions or seemingly related questions, things that overlap with this community, things like near-death experiences, things like paranormal experiences, psychic experiences, like all of that. I should have said supernatural and then paranormal. All of those things to me, in the way they tie into this topic and the way all of that connects to human consciousness, to me that's the story.

yes, if there are extraterrestrials, for example, yeah, I definitely want to know where they came from. I definitely want to know what the state of their technology is. I definitely want to know about their culture. But I'm much more interested in how it relates to the human experience, how it relates to who we are, how we perceive the world, and what larger truths does the existence of these non-human intelligences reveal about reality itself. Very deep. It's good stuff. Oh, I'm so smart, bro.

Don't let anybody tell you anything different. Believe me, plenty of people will tell you differently. I want to get you out of here on this. Well, kind of like two questions. What's your favorite story? My favorite, I mean, someone comes up to you. You're at a show or something like that. And someone says, convince me of aliens, Michael.

Why do you think it's real? So what story would you give? them. And then have you heard Billy Corgan's story that he told on Howard's third? No, I've never heard Billy Corgan's story. So I'll look that up after this. I wouldn't necessarily point to any one story because they can all be picked apart in any number of ways you want to pick them apart. Sometimes well and sometimes they're picked apart badly. But what I would say to somebody who says, well, wait a minute, what the hell are you talking about? I would say, please refer to the U.S. government's own statements on this topic going back to 2017 when they admitted

to the New York Times that UFOs are real and they don't know what they are. Hey guys. So before we get back into the conversation, I just want to talk about something that affects all of us. And it's scary. Starting something new, right? It's hard and it is kind of terrifying because you think about all the work that goes into it. Are you going to be able to succeed? What new challenges am I going to face? It's that uncertain. but I know how that is because I can think back when I started UAP, I was just hoping for the best. And it's just like that when you're starting your own business. That's why Shopify is so great and why I'm so happy to be able to talk about them.

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Go to Shopify.com slash UAP. That's Shopify.com slash UAP. Picture the two of you. sitting side by side, a Mai Tai in your hands, and the sounds of Hawaii around you. You almost forget you're on a plane. And that's the point, because when you fly with Hawaiian Airlines, it's hard to tell where your flight ends and vacation begins. Hawaii starts here.

I mean, that to me seems like the best evidence that the government itself, after decades and decades of denying it, is now admitting that this is a phenomenon. out that we don't understand. And then from there, you can look at the tick-tac and then go fast and everything else. And you could start looking at brush. I actually wouldn't even, I wouldn't even have them to look at Grush first because I think that might be a bridge too far for some people. But then if they're interested, if they're further interested, I would say, look at all the popular cases. Look at Roswell. Look at Phoenix. Look at the one in Brazil. You know, there's so many good cases that you can point to that at the very least, at the very, very least, I think

prove that there is technology out there in our skies and under our seas that we do not understand. And it is actual technology. This is not natural phenomena. I think that's what I would say. And to your point, that's verbiage that's been used by the Pentagon. Yes. It's out there. So is it possible the Pentium?

is lying, sure. I can see no obvious explanation for why they would. And I know that some people are like, well, they just want to get more money for the Pentagon. And I'm like, that is maybe the dumbest argument I've ever heard only because the Pentagon has so much money. They don't need to invent UFOs to get more money. Literally, they're drowning in money. They're fine. Congress has sometimes apportioned them more money than they've even asked for. They don't need to concoct UFOs to get more money. They're saying it because it's true. They're saying it because they can no longer deny the corroborating evidence. Yeah, I think it's a good point. And by the way, Billy Corrigan told Howard Stern that he slept with a shapeshifter by accident. Oh, really?

Yeah. At what point did the person shape shift? I suppose, after, after the act is kind of what he ended up telling Howard Stern. He didn't go through the whole story. I don't know if you know Billy Corrigan at all. You can ask him. I've never met him. Okay. I was talking with this chick. And after we're done, she grew a d-dick.

Like to me, that's not shape-shifting, Billy. To me, that's something else entirely. And to be fair, he said he was not high or anything because Stern asking that question. He said, but yeah, just something that happened. He didn't go into the whole story. He said it was disturbing. but apparently he told Stern off the air. It's wild. The underappreciated aspect to all of this, I think. I don't know how many, but I'm going to guess it's the majority of us have anomalous experiences in our lives that make no rational sense, no matter how often we run them through our brains and try to make sense of them in some way that would co-hear with the reality.

as we understand it. Many, many, many people have these experiences, whether it's a ghost or it's bigfoot or it's a shape shift or it's something appearing out of thin air or something moving off a bookshelf for no reason or lights flickering. And in a lot of cases, you can go, well, there's probably a physical explanation for that. And to that, I would agree there probably are in a lot of these cases, but not all, certainly not all. And the anomalous, I would say, say is a feature of human life. The world, the more I get to understand it, is an incredibly mystifying place. And when I say the world, I mean everything, the universe, or universe is. It's a mystifying place. And every time we think we have it figured it out, something comes along

and slaps us in the head and says, no, you idiot, you don't know a thing. dark energy and dark matter are the best examples of that in recent years. We don't know what 85 or 90% of the universe is made of after all this time. So the idea that our version of reality comports with capital R reality to me is probably incorrect. And if our vision of reality and our understanding of reality is incomplete and incorrect, then I think we have to allow that there may be reasons that these anomalous things keep happening to people. People are experiencing all kinds of bizarre, inexplicable events in their lives. What are those? How do we understand them?

Unfortunately, most of the time, they're not replicable. So you can't study them in the way that science would prefer to study them. But when we take the totality of these experiences across centuries, millennia, we have to, I have to come to the conclusion that not all of these people are lying and not all of these people are crazy and not all of these events can easily be explained. That's the mystery. That's what continues to fascinate me in this topic. That's a great point. It's really well said to kind of put a cap on it because I think that is one of the most important points is to kind of say, not everybody has all the answers.

Some people might have an answer to this. Another person might have an answer to that. but I think the most important thing to remember in this discussion as, you know, UFO community and really as society as a whole is that not one person has all the answers to all these questions. And I think it's important to keep that in mind even for ourselves. When someone does say, oh, well, that's this and that's that. It's like, well, and that's one way or the other, right? You might have someone completely write something off. You might have somebody say, well, this is obviously that. So I think it is.

I think you're right. it's always important to remember that we don't have everything. Like there's pieces to the puzzle we're trying to figure out. I would say we have, at least in the public, almost nothing at this point. We really don't know what we're looking at. We really don't know what we're experiencing. We don't know in any meaningful way, which is why I'm so heartened to hear people like O'Garry Nolan and others

talking about formalizing the study of this topic. into at the college level and beyond. Let's have UAP studies be a credible college major. And let's have degrees in it and let's have masters and doctorates in it. Let's really get our handle around this thing in a formalized manner so that the study, the study of it can be cohered and formalized and rigorous in a way that it really can't be when it's just dudes talking on Twitter. You know, it's very frustrating for me to read various UFO commentators because they're all

over the map. Everybody's in such a different place on this topic. And people will throw out assertions as if they're true when they're just not, when they're just speculation. So, for example, people will talk about the difference between the grays and the reptiles and the manitids and the. and the tall whites. Okay, I believe that some people are experiencing that, those different entities. But I don't think, collectively, we're at a place where we can just assume that those things are,

quote, unquote, real in the way that we mean when we talk about reality. There's a disconnect, I think, between where the sort of general public is and where the U.S. community is. And while I have moved on from the UFO question, I have not moved on from the abduction question, which is to me, you know, sort of the next step. What is an abduction? What does it actually mean? What is actually happening? How are we supposed to interpret the reports of these beings who say things to the abductees that in many cases turn out not to be true, even a little bit. So what is it? What are they experiencing? And so for you, for some of the UFO community to go, well, the, you know, the grays are from here and the reptilians are from here.

And the mad, it says, I'm like, slow down, dude. Like, we haven't established that those things exist in the way that the world would commonly accept the definition of exist. So I'm, I'm pretty cautious about it. Like, I'm willing to entertain every theory. I'm willing to embrace very few theories. Right. It means, you know, this could be interdimensional. Like we don't. We have no idea what we're dealing with. Yeah. I feel like we could probably go for another hour, but I won't do that to you.

So maybe we can catch up another time here on UAP. This has been great. So I will get you out here on this. I promise last question on a high note, I suppose. If you have to name one person. Now, I'm talking name names, somebody in your circle in Hollywood or, you know, behind the scenes, comedians. anything on that circuit, someone is not a human.

Who would you peg as non-human? Oh, non-human? Yeah. There's a few that comes to mind. The one that immediately comes to mind is Trump's immigration dude, Stephen Miller. I know who you're talking about. Yeah. That guy's just a lizard.

I mean, he's just a lizard. He might be a lizard person. Even if he's a lizard person. I think he's just a lizard. It's a lizard, right. Now, that would be disclosure. Stephen Miller comes out on the podium on Zips. There he is.

Hey, guys. That's great. Michael Ian Black, thanks so much for spending all this time here on UAP. It's been an awesome discussion. Really enjoy this. A lot of layers to this. And if people want to find you,

all the different projects that you were in, or you've been a part of in future projects, how do they find you? Eh, who cares? You can find me if you want me. My name's Michael Ian Black. Find me wherever you want. Just in any of those spots.

You can just type of Google. You'll come up. Are you going on tour at any time soon? I'm sort of on tour right now. I mean, I go out, you know, a couple weekends a month. But I try not to stay out on the road too much because I'm an old man and I get tired. Fair enough. I understand that.

You just want to stay home and sleep sometimes. Watch TV. Michael, thanks so much for coming on here. And hopefully we can talk again soon. This has been a lot of fun. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Absolutely.

So again, really fun interview there. I hope you enjoyed that. I truthfully did. He was great. So thanks again to Michael Ian Black for coming on to UAP. I really hope you'd like that. He was cool to talk to. Coming up, I did say that, you know,

I was going to explain more of what's coming up here on UAP. So coming up next week after the 4th of July holiday, I'll be speaking with two really exciting guests. Number one, another person I'm really excited to talk to is Thomas Jane. Again, someone else from the Hollywood scene actor. You probably know him from his role as the Punisher, from the early 2000s version of The Punisher movie with John Chavolta. I personally love that movie.

I'm just going to throw that out there. So I will be a little bit biased in that interview. I'm not going to lie because I think Thomas Jane is great. And that role he played as The Punisher, I thought, was fantastic. I love that movie. So excited to talk to him because he is into the scene. He was actually at contact in the desert, not to his. long ago. So he's definitely into this discussion. So I'm really intrigued to get his perspective

as someone who is a well-known actor in Hollywood and kind of talk about, you know, how he sees this discussion and how he sees all this playing out. He actually emailed me some ideas on some things that talk about. So really intrigued to kind of cover some different things that I don't normally get to cover when it comes to this discussion, some different angles that he emailed me that he wanted to cover, because I always ask anybody who I have on, just kind of like behind the scenes thing here. Whoever I talk to, I always say, hey, if there's anything specifically you'd like to speak about, please let me know, because I'd love to talk about anything that interests you. And there's a couple of things that he's shot my way. Then I'm like, yeah,

absolutely. I think this is great when it comes to the, you know, UAP discussion. So really looking forward to speaking with Thomas Jane coming up next week. He was also in the movie The Mist, so I'm sure you probably know who it is. You can look up Thomas Jane. But also coming up next week, is Scott Roder. I mentioned that at the beginning of the episode. Crime scene reconstruction expert spoke to him last month or so, maybe about six weeks ago, where he came out, made national news about how he was able to say that he has proof that the Las Vegas alien case from last year was real with the Kenmore family in Las Vegas. And we went over some different pictures and everything like that. And he has new evidence. And I had been talking about this for about six weeks. I said he's going to come back on the show and discuss his new evidence. And we're going to show this new evidence. And that's happening. So we are going to be talking.

And that will be coming out next week. Scott and I are getting together here in the coming days. And that episode is going to come out next week. So I know I've been getting that question a lot. Hey, when is he going to release these pictures? When are you going to talk again on the show? It's been a lot to kind of process for Scott. also with his normal job of crime scene reconstruction.

He travels a lot. So we'll get into all that. We're going to answer those questions and go over everything when it comes to Las Vegas case and why it took until now to come back on and discuss it. You know, we both wanted to do this as soon as possible. So I'm happy now that I can finally tell you, yes, it's happening. Yes, I'll be talking to Scott. I know I've been saying this for a couple weeks now, but it is happening.

And you're going to be able to hear and see that next week. after the 4th of July holiday. So absolutely look forward to that. But outside of that, before I go, let me also just say real quick, thank you again. I mentioned it a little bit at the beginning of the episode,

three-year anniversary of UAP. I've mentioned it before, but it's worth saying again here today on this three-year anniversary of the show. I could have never imagined what this has turned into, the attention that it has gotten worldwide, not even in the United States,

but worldwide, the attention that this show has received because of you. I mean, the way, I'll never forget this as long as I live. However long UAP goes on, maybe it's another week, maybe it's another 10 years. I don't know. I'm just going with the flow. But however long this goes on and whatever else happens after UAP, whenever that might be, I'll never forget the love and support that you have shown me in my work in my work, in doing this show because it is a lot of work but I don't complain about that I it's something that

I enjoy doing I really it's truly been a passion project every single time I come in the microphone or write a new show or do more research about a specific topic it's absolutely a passion project from start to finish on every single one of these episodes interview whatever and it's something that I love to do to have this discussion for you and with you and the fact that you still take to it and that it's only growing more and more as I continue the show on means literally the world to me. So that's why I continue to do it because of you. So the fact that I've been able to do this for three years is not a testament to me and any work that I've done. It's a testament to you because of the way that you've taken to the show and the way that you download it and subscribe

to it and rate it and all the messages that I get from everyone. It means so much that this has become what it has become. And I can't wait to see what else it becomes in the future. Again, because of you, because you listen and because you, you know, subscribe to the show and download it and everything like that. So thank you so much. And here's to the future of UAP. Whatever that holds, I'm going to keep going as long as you'll have me. So thank you. On that note, definitely continue to subscribe and download the show wherever you get your podcast on Apple and Spotify, anywhere you get your podcast. It's there. Also, You can reach me directly. I always say on social media at UA Podcast 850.

I do a lot on Twitter, so you can reach me there, as well as other social media at UA Podcast 850 is where you can find me in the show. And on YouTube at UA Podcast without the 850. So just at UA podcast on YouTube. I've been putting up more episodes and interviews and little vignettes on there. So you can check out YouTube as well for UAP. And of course, email S.D.N. UAP at gmail.com. If you'd like to reach me directly, it's S.

Diener, D-I-E-N-E-R-U-A-P at Gmail.com. But that will do it for now on this edition of UAP. I cannot wait to come back in the future with all those things I mentioned there and even more coming up in the future episodes of UAP. It's Stephen Deiner here

on the Unidentified Alien podcast. Thank you again so much to Michael Ian Black and to you for listening and for making the show what it has been over the past three years. And here's to more. Speak to again soon. Be well. Thanks.