Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1029 | Paranormal Experts Explore Angels, Demons, Giants & a Creepy Robertson Family Legend

Episode Date: January 24, 2025

Jase starts out a little skeptical of guests Luke Rodgers and Nate Henry, the hosts of “Blurry Creatures,” a podcast that explores the paranormal through the lens of Christianity. But, he’s won over by their down-to-earth, curious, and compassionate approach. Al and Zach are excited to discuss the Bible’s most mysterious stories, and Nate and Luke share what they’ve learned about God, humanity, and the supernatural from their years digging into cryptic tales. Plus, an unsettling Robertson family legend from their grandmother’s struggle with mental illness comes to light. In this episode: Genesis 6, verses 1-4; Genesis 10, verse 8; Deuteronomy 32 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? How do you accidentally take off your beer? I was like doing the trim and I was like, who just left it off the side of the man. Did I hurt your feelings on the coat thing? Because you immediately took it off. He hasn't worn it since.

I thought that was fun. Did you have a bad coat? Yeah, I was wearing a coat and Jay, I mean, I was like, hey, you're in Louisiana. I was like, and I gave him a nugget that's unknown. I's like, I know what you're doing here by this coat. that's like this thick, but the last time a person froze to death in Louisiana was 1747.

He was a pirate. He's a pirate. Probably. I broke him down mentally. I said, you wore an orange hat, which says, I'm scared if somebody's going to see. I think we're rolling. I think we're rolling.

Well, this is a good start. Welcome to the O'Shea podcast. We call it a cold. We're no plan as a plan. Cold open. Yep. So we have some friends in from Tennessee, Nashville and Nashville adjacent.

Mostly Nashville adjacent. Well, we're from California, but we ended up in Tennessee somehow. That seems to be happening a lot. Not like that, though. We were way ahead of the curve. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

I've been there for my 12th year in Tennessee, and Nate's even been there even longer. Yeah. So we got out when it was still bad, but it isn't like now. We got there when it was a little sleepy town, and now it's a busy. It's kind of like the...

Las Vegas of the South. It's getting wild. You guys, Blurry Creatures Podcast. Yeah. Blurry creatures. And I misunderstood because I thought the reason you were here, I thought it was called furry creatures. And so I thought, well, yeah, it's perfect around here

because everybody's pretty furry. And then they corrected me that it was. Well, y'all sent me a memo last night that said, we'll have the blurry creatures. Oh, man. For the podcast. Luke and Nate, these guys have been, how long have you been doing this, by the way?

This is year five. Yeah, your five. This is year five starting here. 2025. We started in 2020. Perfect time to start a podcast. Yeah, especially about weird stuff. We were started in 18, so yeah.

Since I'm the most absent from the internet and the social media world, what exactly is blacked? This is a good question, too. Yeah. You know, we kind of started this podcast, trying to marry the paranormal. You know, there's a lot of paranormal stuff. podcast, talk about UFOs, aliens, Bigfoot, all that stuff. Oh, y'all are conspiracy theorists.

Well, I don't know. After this episode, maybe not conspiracies, but maybe truths, you know. Exactly. That's what we, and then there was this whole other world of, you know, this theological threat where a lot of guys that there wasn't really a marriage of the two where, you know, there's strange stuff in our Bible, there's strange stuff that people experience, everything, you know, under the sun. and there was just a lot of people who were willing

to talk about it on either sides, but no one was really kind of put those things together. We did. Really? You are a Christian conspiracy theorists. Well, they would not call themselves conspiracy theorists. Oh, well, I don't mean that negative. Yeah.

But they look into the paranormal, which I will say it's interesting because you guys mention someone who's been influential in the spiritual side, Michael Heiser. Yeah, we bring doctors on the show Heiser was one of her. Yeah, you guys have had Tim Mackey on the show. We had Mike on twice before, you know, Mike passed away.

Yeah. But we had Heiser on twice. I think, Nate, we've talked about this a lot, but his book Unseen Realm, which we were talking about yesterday, Zach, that you just read a couple weeks ago, was really like a seminal piece of our show and influence on our show because we, I think what the Nate was saying is true. We, we're just trying to talk about contextualize a lot of the things that people experience and see. things were talking about mainstream media. We kind of hit it at a crazy time because we're two years in the podcast in 2022, and all of a sudden,

Congress is having House Oversight committees on UAPs, right? And we're already talking about the weird stuff and trying to contextualize it within a biblical worldview, a biblical context. So if we're Christians, how are we to think about the weird stuff? And what do we look at our Bible? How do we think about some of the things that people would want to gloss over on Sundays,

whether it be the conquest of the Promised Land by a Jeopardyland by Joshua, giants, or you go to Genesis 6, which is, you know, a, not a passage you have preached on Sundays a lot because you have this very odd sons of God to sell the daughters of men and saw they were fair and they took them as wives and their Nephlim and the land and thereafter and these were the men of renown, etc. This is Genesis 6th 1 through 4. And even later, with Goliath, these left over 10 foot tall people and you're like, okay. Yeah, that one I was reading high so so you guys were the i want to say y'all were the first people that introduced me to heiser's work which i ignored at first now we've said a conversation about

bigfoot which is where this is where our show like sort of tongue-in-cheek begins even every episode right it's like there's this bigfoot's the gateway drug it's the most seen cryptid in in the united states and in the world and especially it's part of americana now but you have so many hundreds, if not maybe even thousands of encounters, reported encounters a year. And as Heiser said, and I promise this is full circle. But as Mike said on our show, which kind of stuck with us, is that if even one of these is true, it is real, right? Then it busts the paradigm. And you've got to figure out how you put something this odd into your worldview. And how do you make sense of that? And I think the 2022 with the UAP stuff, we had mainstream media, we had tackle Carlson.

We had a number of others, Joe Rogan, of course, but like these other mainstream voices, right? Because mainstream media is dying. This is a whole lot conversation. But things like Sean Ryan Show and Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson are talking about this now, right? This whole UFO thing, which was just sort of relegated to wearing tinfoil hats and all that before.

Yeah, but it's like a pretty old phenomenon. People have been seeing these creatures for decades. people have been seeing UFOs for a long time. And I think as Christians, there's not a lot of spaces to talk about these things. So we provided a space and we didn't think it was going to be what it's become, but it kind of blew up. And I think it's kind of like weird,

like just all the people who've had experience and are into the weird things. Yeah, it's interesting because I'm just meeting you guys, but I mean, I've been studying and teaching and preaching the Bible for most of my adult life. Yeah. And it's so much involving another realm and people that are interacting on this earth back and forth with angels.

So it's interesting people say, oh, I don't know, but A, it's like, well, the Bible's full of it. Because we got angels coming and going. We got demons. We got a lot of interaction with another realm. So what's so shocking about things we can't really explain and describe? Right. But that's the paradigm, though, right? This is what we talk about off on the show is that we, you know, the Bible's written to an ancient near eastern audience.

This is Mike's stick. I mean, this is where he goes, right? and we're 21st century Americans and we read it like it's written to us. Yeah. But I think the separation too, as you do point out, is like, we're like post-enlightenment.

Yeah. Cartesian philosophy, academic era, imperial paradigms where we want to measure. It's a scientific thing. And I think sadly in a lot of ways in the church, we sort of, this is just a broad world. Well, Mike He said that the average seminarian graduate

it only gets two classes on angels and demons. Wow. Class is. Not like a full, just like almost like a lecture, two lectures. Yeah, two lectures inside. Yeah. Not two courses. Not two courses.

Yeah, two lectures. And think about how many times there's interaction in the scriptures across thousands of years because of Old Testament history and New Testament. They're everywhere. That's my point. I think we live in a weird way. we've kind of separated the natural from the supernatural

and the Western church. That's right. And so this becomes like a then a paradigm buster to be like, and then we talk about in the context of this, like,

what is an extraterrestrial, right? This is an example. It's something that's not of Earth. So what's an angel then? Angel's not Earthborn. They were, the sons of God stood for,

sang for joy at the creation of the earth, is what Job says. So they by definition to be extraterrestrial. And that's a whole rabbit trail to go down, but like the idea

that we can create context around a lot of the year and that our Bibles got a lot of weird stuff in it. Yeah. That we just don't typically talk about in your... Well, the podcast is a great format to do that, right? Because it's just two people asking questions and bringing on experts.

And there's really not like a committee or, you know, anyone's going to shut you down. You'll have a board. Yeah, it's a bunch of elders say. Members of my family could fill up about six episodes. It's, you know, the problem with having five people, you can't get a word in here, edgewise. But look, the closest... The one time I thought I saw Bigfoot, no lie, I'll tell you the story. I love this.

That's for yourself. But we had shot down a duck. It was all my, I think Al was there. Willie was there. We shot down a duck, and it was kind of hazy looking. And the backdrop was big woods. And I just looked up, and I thought, that looks just like the picture that you always see of Bigfoot. And then I realized it was Willie with his arms at a distance.

But I would, in that moment, I thought, there he is. So I'm not shocked that you ran up on Willie. But, and I've also seen my dad on two or three different occasions, asked someone if they were an angel. And he was serious. Yeah. He was like. Because of Hebrews 13.

Oh, so yeah, you entertain angels. You entertain angels. And one weird thing that happened, that this was, Kind of serious, then we laugh now. So my grandma, she had, how would you describe that, Al? Well, they say now bipolar back in the day it was manic depressive. She had a, and she lived right by my parents. And so she would have these episodes that would last for a few weeks.

And she literally became another person. She wouldn't sleep. She was lithium deficient, which we didn't know at the time. We found out much later, but she would have these spells. And then she was literally out of her mind. I mean, not this, because normally she was just our grandmother, but then. Exactly. So, and she's like, I never heard her said a cuss word in her life, except during the spells.

And, you know, and she, like, painted the inside of the house, red. And remember she bought all the bananas out of grocery stores and then rub bananas on the outside of the house. So it was kind of sad. But one night, we were all together, our entire family. And we were like, what are we going to do? I mean, what do we, do we load her up? And Al probably remembers this specifically. And Zach, your dad said, you know, have we thought about maybe she's demon possessed?

And when he said that, all the lights went off in the house immediately. And I was like, it's about the most terrified I've ever been in my life. It got quiet. It got quiet. Yeah. Now, what we later found out was a picture had fallen off the porch, and there was like a main light switch behind the picture, and it clicked the lights off. Which doesn't make it any less weird that that would happen as soon as that was said. But again, to your point about explaining things, that was weird that it came out of that month.

And the timing is real. The timing was real. That happened. Y'all were there. You remember it happening. And I thought, you know what? I think I'm about to revisit my thought. on modern day demon possession.

I remember thinking that. I thought, what are the odds of that happening? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we brought exorcists on our show and talked to them about kind of what they go through and what their experience is. And, you know, there's a little difference between deliverance and exorcists

and kind of how they go about things. But it seems like there's an uptick in that. There seems, and look, my grandma would later become healed, which was rude. Yes. How did that happen? And, well, I think, I mean, me personally, I think a lot of it was prayer and, you know, she loved the Lord, but also they started taking a different, yeah, got her medication. And she got stable, in a stable environment too, I think.

And the last, how many years of our life? So from when she was in her early 70s, until she died, she was 96, or her last 23 or four years. Perfectly normal. No, everything. No, but from 40 to 70, it was these patterns. and she went into mental hospitals. And, you know, mental health through the decades here been pretty, you know, significant.

Yeah, and we, I mean, now we kind of laugh at some of the stories. It wasn't funny then, but like, I mean, I just kind of survive when it's your family, you know. Yeah, I remember opening the screen door and she did not have one stitch of clothing on and said, come on in. And I was like, that's not something you can unsaid.

It's a grandma. You wish that was blurry, right? That was a blurry memory. Jason. Jason, you've got something you want to share with you. I know people are going to think this was planned, but I did not know y'all were coming until last night. Right before I knew y'all were coming,

and now that I kind of am familiar with what y'all do, because I thought blurred creatures, I thought you'd either used to have a battle with whiskey or you'd had some kind of head trauma, but I wasn't sure. That was a joke. A buddy of mine sent me this video last night, And I will read under the video. This is a security camera.

And once I found out y'all were going to be on, I actually called him and said, can I use this? Because this was his message, and I'll show you. It says, explain this. And look, you'll see, yesterday he sent me this. So this is before I knew y'all were coming. Explain this last night behind the house.

So, I thought it was visual, and so I turned it on and nothing happened, and then I realized that it was the sound. So this is the security camera outside their house, and I just want you all to listen. It's pretty long, but at some point you'll hear these noises, since you're under blurred creature. You hear that? Wait for it. There it is. That is strange. And this is after dark.

This is that. Let's see. What's the location? This is 112. It was at 9.42 p.m. And where was this at? I don't want to tell you where it's at. At the state.

Because, well, these guys may be like them crystal ball people, you know, they ask you a bunch of questions. Then they form an opinion. No, I just, based on what you heard. Diagnose it. Well, I did ask the guy, and he said, well, don't say where I'm at, because I don't want people, you know,

Ghostbusters showing up in my yard. But now he, he contacted a biologist. I mean, they sent this off. And so then I called it back and I was like, look, I got two blurry creatures coming. And if you want to find out what this is, let's just open it up to the public.

Let them listen. So there it was, and I'll get your take. Now, I realize that's just a sound. Yeah. But I'm going to say this. I've been in the woods a long. time. I've never exactly heard that sound. And I'll tell you where they live, it is deep woods behind their house. This guy's out in his garage and he hears this. He goes in, they get a gun.

His wife comes out and hears it. She starts screaming, you know, call 911. But they didn't. They call me. What do y'all think? Any thoughts? I mean, we've heard a lot of those things over the years, you know, Bigfoot allegedly is mimic sounds. A lot of times sounds like screams, women screams. Could be a cat or a cryptid, some kind of weird creature. But yeah, it's hard to say because there's so many strange noises. But there is these like incredible screams that people will send us. It sounds like something huge is screaming like a woman out in the middle of nowhere.

And it just is so loud and the vibration is so deep. It's not like a smaller animal. It's something big. Well, this was quite a distance away. You know, the little noises you hear, or is him in the garage. They said when he heard it, it sounded a long ways away.

So you're just picking that up on their security camera. Yeah. Yeah, it's tough because you have an audio, they're probably not a prime audio collecting device if it was on a security camera. Yeah. I'm trying to separate like the fact that Sai has talked our ears off about Black Panthers for the last day.

Well, that's where I thought this would go. If Si ever gets a hold to this, this is smoking. Boys, I told you. Now look. So I've heard mountain lions. I grew up in Northern California. I told Cy this as a kid,

and it does sound like a woman screaming. That one's tough. It's a little different than what I heard from a mountain line. There were mountain lions there. Like where my grandparents lived when I was a kid. They lived way up in the forest, Northern California. And it would sound like a woman screaming. I heard this as a kid that was terrifying.

We'd be trying to sleep and you'd hear this sounds like a woman screaming outside. And there was a big cat, which is equally as terrifying. Which is weird to me because every time I've heard what I thought was a woman screaming when I investigated, it was a woman screaming. The good news is we will have thousands of people that will listen to this. So make sure you comment and the YouTube would look. I want to hear the collective. I mean, that's unedited.

There's no, oh, the guy sent me that last night. and instead explain this, I think I put, it's probably a bobcat and a coon fighting over a dead gar. But I was kidding. That's a specific answer, Jason. You figured it out.

Case closed. Case closed. I mean, that sounds good to me. I don't know. Well, I mean, you would be surprised how many times you bring on somebody to talk about something else and they have a story like this.

And they have a crazy story. You know, doctors, military, all these people. They'll be on to tell a story about something specific. And then we'll open it up with like, hey, you know, what your thoughts on Bigfoot? And they have a Bigfoot experience.

Yeah. I mean, all kinds of people have one. And so when you get people permission to actually talk about the paranormal and the experiences they've had and there's no judgment, there's no reservation, people will tell you things they've experienced. And I think around the world, people have no problem doing that. But here in the West, a lot of people do not want to talk about their weird experiences because either they haven't thought about it and how it relates to their faith or they just

think people are going to think they're nuts and so they don't talk about it. But on our show, we want them to talk about it. So it's like we're trying to get more of that out of that person. And it's not uncommon to have something like that. And that's, I think that's pretty tame, like compared to the stuff we hear, which is banana stuff. Like people, people being abducted by UFOs is probably the weirdest stuff that we, we talk to those people.

And that's really hard to, in the moment, make room for what the story is being told to you. So you kind of have to expand your paradigm in the interview of like, like, okay, if this is happening, let's just continue to ask questions and this person's terrified or they have some kind of trauma related to this experience. And so you can't just be like cracking jokes and making fun of it's hard for them to express what they're, what they've experienced. We just make fun of each other. We just make fun of each other in the middle of that stuff. Okay. I see. But it's heavy. You know, it's something we set out to try to, to try to investigate that stuff. And then we got thrown into the deep end of people who needed like a safe place to

express their experiences. And so it got heavy quick. And we were like, what, what is going on here? It's just, there's not a lot of avenues for people to express. Well, that's only really half our show. The other half of we're getting back to it is like, we try to do highbrow discussions.

Like, so we try to have theologians and doctors and authors and people have created content and spent their 10,000 hours on a particular subject. However weird that may be, we try to create, we try to at least create this sort of academic highbrow standards so that we have real discussions that. Yeah,

you try to learn something. Feel credentialed, right? Like, because everyone, there are so many stories. People have the weirdest experiences as humans do in general, right? This is like, as a kid growing up, coast to coast radio. I remember listening to it at night with my folks, driving home from my grandma's house after Christmas or wherever. My grandma lived about three and a half hours from where we live.

Bigfoot country. My parents would be keeping themselves awake listening to Coast to Coast Radio. And I remember falling asleep as a kid to that and loving those kind of stories. I think what we're trying to do is take that and provide an academic, research context to that as much as you can. And biblical paradigm. I think that's why the Heiser book was so interesting when I finally picked it up because we had talked about it and then I got invited to a Bible study, an online Bible study

called the Unseen Realm. I was like, that's weird. And then I later found out it was, they were going through the book. Then I met with Logos software guys and they were like, Heiser was somehow involved in. He was like their in-house theologian for a, or more or less, the in-house doctor for a long time.

Yeah, their CEO came and met with me in Black Mountain, and he was like, you need to read Heiser. And then two other people told me this, and I was like, I'm gonna, then someone sent me the book. Right before a last trip.

And then you're like, okay, maybe the Holy Spirit wants me to read this. I read it. And what I found to be very profound about it is that he talks in there about the, I think he calls it the Deuteronomy 32 worldview of interpreting the Bible. through more of an understanding of this

if you were reading this as a first century first century Jewish or even going back to read it as in the worldview in which it was written how would not from a Cartesian framework you know how would we read a lot of this and it was very eye-opening for me but the interesting part about it was that the entire book which jace you got to read

I told jace you need to read this book because everything we've been teaching on this podcast they're just kind of the eschatological flow of the whole the whole kingdom in the last two chapters of the book I think are kingdom not yet now which is the title of the podcast I started by the way called not yet now but it's that's where it ends is it's so it's kind of this story that of the kingdom of God coming to earth but it's this whole picture of it through the whole lens of this new framework that I haven't really had access to before and so you have things like The Nephilim that you mentioned in Genesis chapter 6, which I knew the story.

We've talked about it almost as like a, for me it's always been kind of like, oh, it's just one of those weird things, but not really a lot of deep theological significance. But then he ties that into the Tower of Babel, which is they had to make a name for themselves, which is the same Hebrew word used for men of renown in Genesis 6. So his point was the Nephlin came back, and they created more Nephilim, or the Sons of God, came back and entered to the women and they created more Nephlin, which is a tower of Babel. And that's when the nations were created. We talk a whole lot on this podcast about God wants to bring the nations up the mountain

to worship him. The nations were created in Genesis chapter 11. Fast forward to Pentecost. And now the nations are coming back together. And instead of confusing their language, which is what God did in Genesis 11, now he's Acts 2. He's allowing them to hear each other in their own native tongue. What's he doing?

He's bringing back the kingdom. He's bringing the kingdom of God. He's reversing. Yes. You see it. Then you get to the end of the Bible. You get to Revelation and you see this new city coming and you see that he's looking around.

Where's the temple? There's no temple. Oh, I see that the lamb is the temple of God. And God now makes his home in human. So I thought his work was extremely important. And I'm still kind of diving into some of the stuff. But I think opening ourselves up to the different paradigm, Nate, that you mentioned. is important.

Well, didn't they say they were giants? Yeah. That's in Genesis 6th. That would be the offspring, you know. When I saw, the only time I thought about it seriously is when I first saw Shaquille O'Neil. Yeah. It's the Nephilim. He's a Nephilim.

Yeah. But I also used to call people Nimrods and they took a fence. It was in Genesis 10. But I was being complimentary. I'm like, you need to read your Bible. Because people call people Nimrods as like. You weren't being complimentary when you called him a name. Yeah, that's not a...

It says, look, I'm going to read this 10-8. Cush was the father of Nimrod who grew to be a mighty warrior on the earth. He was a mighty hunter before the Lord. That is why it said, like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the Lord. That's what it says. Why did we let our culture... Would you take Nimrod as a compliment if somebody called you Nimrod? No, no, especially how he turned out.

And it just sounds bad at Nimrod. It wants to be a Nimrod. I mean, a Mighty Warrior, if you mean you're a mighty hunter. Yeah, just come, a mighty warrior. You throw a Nimrod. Well, the problem is that some of these words are different, obviously. Like, Mighty Men of Renown. And depending on what translation you're reading,

it can really change a lot of the interpretation. And so we talk about the Nephilim, we've looked at kind of like data scientists. We've looked at that topic every way we can. So if there's any proof or any sort, for any story about the giants and where they were, what they were doing. We've talked about it on the show,

everything from language to we've had military guys who've been in Afghanistan with thermals and still see these things today. And so we've explored that topic in depth, and there are a lot of Christians who just don't understand. Like Heiser would say there's three main reasons why everything is so corrupt in the Old Testament.

And most Christians only know one. We only know the Garden of Eden story. We don't understand the Tower of Babel and we don't understand Genesis 6. We don't understand that creation was corrupted and then they were trying to build this ziggurat, this pyramid, this portal, this gateway to heaven and have a war.

And so you have these three major problems in the Old Testament and Jesus comes and puts all three back together. Yeah, that's good. Somebody recently told me that if you Google map search Tower of Babel, that there's a site that shows up, that there have been like four or five different, like Alexander the Great,

and all these people tried to accomplish world dominance have all tried to build on this one site. And it never, it's an interesting story, but when you had mentioned, you mentioned Genesis 6, and you had mentioned earlier too about Goliath. Yeah, I'm reading Heiser's book. And part of the book he talks about how

when Moses went to the promised land, he's the guy's like, go take it. It's yours. And they go up and they look into the promised land and they come back, like, we can't take it. They're too big. There's a bunch of giants in there. We're like grasshoppers.

Yeah, Cedars of Lebanon, which is like 40 feet. From Tennessee is Lebanon. There you got. But the more y'all talk, the more I do realize it is familiar with people that don't really share it. We had a chat, what was Chad? It was Chad and Chad. Chad Roebush and Chad Wright.

Right. Chad Wright. We're like, you know, how'd you come to the Lord? he said well there I was in this old warehouse I think it was in Germany yeah this is a Navy Seal he was in Navy SEAL he's got this got some no it was North Africa yeah it was North Africa somewhere maybe a cell up warehouse or whatever and they started hearing things and seeing that you'll have to go back and listen to the podcast to get the details but he was like man and he's like I wasn't in a good place with the Lord but I think he said his brother was yeah so he called it

His brother's pastor called him. Yeah, well, he said, I'm here with four Navy Seals, and we have an enemy that we don't have the weapons for. And he goes through all the details. He says he felt the presence of evil. Like it was a palatable presence that they all recognize four Navy SEALs who don't fear anything, and they're crippled by fear. They're totally armed, I mean, but that they know what they're facing,

their guns will do no good, a multimillion dollar killing machines. And look, so we asked him like, how he came to the Lord, and he started with this story, and I was like, where is this going? I was really nervous that day, but he was like,

he called the only believer he knew, which was his brother, who called the pastor, and the pastor was like, put me on speaker phone and walked through that place, and they were like, in the name of Jesus,

and this guy, they're anointing with oil all around this. Oh, yeah, let's go. Yeah, they did this. And look, he's like, so here I am. this was unexplainable because they never felt the presence there again.

And he's like, maybe I should look into the one who wrote this Bible. And he started reading the Bible for the first time and he eventually came to the Lord. That was his story. Yeah. And I thought, okay, wow. And just getting to know him, I thought, he just didn't seem like he was making this up. Nah, he wasn't. And so I thought that, but I also thought something else I wanted to.

share about how prevalent these stories are because you got me we make fun of sigh and the black panthers but i i have realized during this process that i'm outnumbered because i don't believe there are black panthers roaming around in the woods like phil in louisiana me know that sai does in louisiana but i'm outnumbered because we did a show on duck family treasure because they they were like si really believes that i was like oh yeah sit sit down and talk to them well the more they listen they're like we he's so adamant about it and uh it's closed so she said well wouldn't it the producer told me wouldn't it be be cool if you know we had people that would kind of take up his side and i was like hey there's more people in this area that believe this

than then do not and i said i'll prove it to you go on a social media page and just ask him to show up tell them uncle sigh because they all know who sigh is in this area And she's like, they're not going to show up. I was like, oh, yeah, they're going to show up. An hour later, when I pulled in, they not only showed up, they had signs. I believe there were T-shirts. It was an epidemic. And they started interviewing these people all day, and they actually ran that in the episode.

They didn't, we didn't like go get them. They showed up and was looking at you into the camera saying, hey, here I was, you know, in the back. yard and it was all these stories that wasted a whole day of filming in my opinion but it was it was funny and I thought they really believe this maybe there's one well I think this I mean we just learned as a country I think this last election was that I think every you had every single narrative saying this is this is impossible this person is this and everyone did the opposite well that's true and I feel like you know people can't deny their own experiences and when they look someone in the eye and they tell them their story and you don't and you get no warning this person's like making this up or lying

you have to make room for those things and I mean our faith is really based a lot on eyewitness right those who saw Christ ascend and those who saw him crucified I mean they wrote the stories down and we didn't see that personally but our faith is based a lot on eyewitnesses and so when you have all these credible people constantly telling you the same exact story you have to make either they're nuts or they're telling me the truth and What are the chances of thousands of people all describing the same exact creature, just happened to be lying about it? And at this point in history, when, you know, Bigfoot sightings have been going on since the 60s,

and that's when they filmed that famous one, it doesn't really move the meter in terms of popularity. If you come out and say, I saw Bigfoot, it's like, yeah, okay, cool, whatever. But they're adamant about it. And they'll go to their grave saying they saw this thing. And it does, like you were saying with your friend, the Navy SEAL, is like, when you have a supernatural experience, you start to realize life is serious. This is serious.

We are in a paranormal story. We are in a strange story. This is a creation. We're here to do something. We're here to learn something. We're in the middle of a battle between heaven and hell. We're not the main character. We're here.

And we don't often know what are we doing? And then you start to have these experiences. You're like, okay, I got to like, there is evil. And it's trying to kill me. And I got to do something about it. think those paranormal experiences, we've gotten dozens and dozens, hundreds of emails for people like, I've been in church my whole life, and now I finally understand how serious this is. And it's like, I think talking about the weird and the strange and the supernatural

really wakes people up and they have just a conversion right there on the spot. Go back to what you said. I thought you were going to an interesting place earlier. You said that Heiser talked about the three different evils, and one, one, we all get the fall. Yeah. I thought it was interesting the role that the Nephilim play, at least in Heiser's work, of how he presents it. And by the way, his work is academics, very academic. Oh, it's all peer-reviewed. Mike would famously say that he had no new ideas.

He just compiled him, right? His story is really fascinating. And he goes all the way through seminary, gets his Ph.D. in ancient Semitic languages in the Old Testament, and then has this seminal experience where one of his colleagues says, if you read Psalm 82 recently, says, yeah, he read it in Hebrew, I don't know,

goes back and reads it and realizes like, oh my gosh, like this connects to Deuteronomy 32 to Genesis 6. These are all, the Hebrew is all the same. What does this mean? And that's the whole divine counsel. Yeah, for people who don't know,

it's like a court scene in heaven. And there are characters and God's there. And you kind of have to expand your understanding of, okay, there's other players in this story. but it's hard to know like what Durrani 32 and Simon. But it is connected and going back to the point. Well, Gen 6, right? Yes, we were talking about.

So like the idea of the Gen 6 comes out of Genesis 3, which is the first prophecy. It's God prophesying saying that the seed of the woman will crush the head of the serpent. It's the prophecy of Christ, right? And what you have happened downstream is Genesis 6, which is an angelic rebellion at Mount Hermon. And Mike has a book called Reversing Herman,

which is fascinating. You talk about reversing Babel, same idea. But you have angels, fallen angels taking wives and creating Nephlin, what's called a seed war. So they are, in a lot of ways, they're trying to breed out humanity. For the idea, then if you have no more humans, the seed of the woman cannot defeat the head,

or crush that the serpent, can't beat the dragon, right? So you have the seed war that comes downstream as well. And then that makes the flood make a lot more sense. And that's where the giants come from. Oh, and the extermination of the Canaanites. So that's the other thing. Progressive Christianity has a really hard time with the conquest of Joshua, right?

Well, all the violence in particular. It's the number one objection that you're going to get from an atheist on... God sanctions genocide. Yeah. And you serve that God. He's not a good God. And I think that's the problem is, you mentioned it.

Like Moses, they have the spies and Joshua and Caleb, the only ones to say that we can beat them. But there's giants here, right? So when you start to take the idea that, okay, this is all part of this seed war and you have giant tribes, So these are hybrids, these are not human.

And I mean, but this is, this is what the language says. Like, this is not just me just being crazy. This is what it says. Then God wiping these abominations out. This attempt by the darkness to destroy humanity is really his, yeah, these are technically hybrids, right? They're not, they're kind of half human.

And then even Genesis 6 says the men of renown. I think this is where, you know, Greek mythology gets all. That was my next question. Is that where, is that where they're, that comes from. Yes. I'm sitting here thinking Greek mythology, even the Romans picked up.

Demigods. Yeah, exactly. They had godlike qualities. Pantheon. There also begins with the canonites. So you have Bail, who is a storm god, and you have Zeus, who is a storm god. And it continues.

You have this Thor in Norse mythology. But you have this Satan character. And a lot of people in the space, a lot of researchers will claim that's just Satan wear a different mask because the new empire, right? The empire that dominates the chief god of that empire

is the deceiver. He just wears different masks, whether it would be, you know, bail or Zeus or... Whatever is chaotic. He seems to love. And what's interesting is when Moses went to the promised land and they see

these giants, they retreat, and God's like, okay, when they go another 40 years in the wilderness, then Joshua, taking up the mantle of Moses, goes back in it. He actually does exactly what God commands, and he does exterminate and kill them all. But they left them.

Yeah. And the ones they left became a thorn in the side of the Israelites for the rest of time. And they didn't kill them all either in the sense that they didn't go into a certain area. They didn't go into the area of what would be known later as the Philistines. Right.

And guess what happens with that? And then you have Goliath. It's kind of like the picture. I mean, There's evidence for those things all over the world because there's proof that they weren't all exterminated because they were building the same structures all over the world. There's pyramids and things like that

built everywhere. And you have evidence that they were doing something and they were ancient religions and they were practicing them. And there's, how did all these different nations have the sort of the same sort of corrupt religions without knowing each other? I think they all started from the whole land. Every civilization has folk floor and stories about giants. Yeah.

And you go, this really all can't be coincidental, right? But I think that's a hard thing. We're sitting here in 21st century. We're in Louisiana right now, and we're 21st century Americans. And the idea of a giant, a 10-foot, eight-foot, nine-foot, 10-foot giant is, it seems fantastical. But that's what I think the podcast does is so we spend a lot of time trying to prove that the Bible is true. It's a very quick glimpse into this story.

And you would think that if we were writing about something today that we all knew about, whether it's an iPhone or a text message, and we're writing scripture. We're not going to spend 2,000 years. We're not thinking someone's going to read, what's a text message? And they just drop these terms like Nephilim, and they keep going because everyone knows what that is.

And so you have a lot of skeptical people who read their Bibles, and they go, oh, that's just talking about the race of humans, the sons of Seth, and they come up with all these wacky theories to just explain away this supernatural aspect of the sons of God to marry the daughters of men. It's two distinct different characters.

And so what we'll do is like we took people to Peru. We looked at the ancient walls in Peru, the elongated skulls. I mean, they still have physical evidence to suggest that there was a different race of humanoid on planet Earth. And in places like Peru where it's not controlled by academia, you can actually still see these big skulls and the weird genetic anomalies that they have. They're not human. And people are like, oh, that's crazy. You're wild. But what Luke and I feel is that you have these huge shows like,

ancient aliens and you got Rogan talking about the Ananaki on his show. And people know that history has been sanitized. And so they're coming at wild, weird ancient alien theories. And they're not plugging in the biblical part. Yeah. So they're being led from the faith because the church won't talk about it. And so we're like, and let's go right into it. Let's talk about it. It's a lot better. Because most time when someone asked me these questions, I'll say, I have no idea. Yeah. But, you know, I'm glad there are some guys because y'all been studying as ZZOP said

you've been studying the parts in between Yeah What I love most about what you said It very early we started this discussion Is that it's not just about us And there's a curiosity To hear and to know and to think And so a guy like me

So I'm 60 years old I grew up Star Trek was my favorite show as a kid Because the possibilities right, to go out there and to see and there's more. It was very humanistic in its nature just because Roddenberry was, but the idea was that there may be something more. So then when I became a young adult, it was X-Files, you know,

was my favorite show. Yeah. It's still one of my top 10 shows. Based on real cases, by the way. Oh, yeah, exactly. And so I was so intrigued because it just took, you know, my childhood into that next narrative. So then I'm a pastor and had people coming to me all the time and say, well, what about

aliens? I mean, is that even positive? Because it's easier just to say, no, no, that stuff. We know everything. And it's all right here in the Bible, as if we know everything here trying to study it. And so I always say, look, I mean, God's so big. And there's other realm we know is there. And there's interaction that's going back and forth.

It's in the Bible. So anything is possible. Let's just throw it out there that God does some things. We can't explain everything. But we shouldn't quit talking about her to being curious. And that's what I love about what you guys are doing with. did in practical life, though, I've studied with a few, like people who have said, I'm going to follow Satan, and they've given themselves to that world, which at first, when I was younger,

I was skeptical, but what I noticed in studying with a few of those people is that whether they thought that was real or not, the consequences of that said decision with me trying to help them was real. Yeah. And there was nothing good about their life whatsoever. And unfortunately, some of those people that I studied with ended up taking their own life. And it wasn't because I wasn't trying to help them in every way possible. And there was one particular girl who was young in the youth group.

And I just made it my ambition because she wore weird stuff, you know. And she had just, she was identifying herself as an occult, demonic follower. And I just thought, I was thinking, not on this watch. And the further I got down into it, turned out she had been abused as a kid. And we just befriended her, me and my wife, and really tried to help her. But the consequences of seeing the crazy things that she would come up with, which I started believing after a while because I thought, well, you've opened yourself up. Yeah.

Something that's really dark. And without getting into all the details, it just made me kind of. to rethink, you know, the reality of this when you see the results of it. I think that what could be dangerous about it, though, is if you approach the topic as a novelty. I actually think that's not helpful. What, for me, what the, at least Heiser's work, so, and I just read the books. I typically, I'm processing real time with you guys here, but I think it has to be connected

to the grand story. and I think it is. I think that the conversation, I'm not saying I agree with him on everything, I just started reading him, but I do think that when I read how he, even like how he, there's so much in the Old Testament

that we read through and we just take for granted. There's a lot of instances in the Old Testament, for example, where God will speak about himself and both the first and the third person. Well, how do you make sense of that? You know what I mean? And I never really dove into that. I've just kind of like, well,

and I maybe had like a, a very weak response to that. But I think when you start to understand this concept of Elohims versus Yahweh, two different things, you know what I mean? Like it starts to make sense in the divine counsel. And when Jesus prays, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And you start to see it. There's a much, there's an orchestrated effort on both the part of God to accomplish

what God's going to accomplish. And by the way, he in the end wins. But there's also an orchestrated effort by the evil realm. that is seeking to destroy what God's trying to accomplish. And I think it's a lot more comforting to not believe that. But we need to take the demonic realm serious. Yeah, it was one of the pillars of his ministry, but we just never talk about it.

I mean, it's like, oh, he healed the sick, he broke down racial barriers. He took up for those steeped in sin, you know, to show his grace. Oh, and he cast out demons. But, you know what I mean, I was like, that hog story going on the bank. That kind of got mine too. There's that passage in Mark.

I can't remember where he, the first time he goes into the Gentile territory, and he cast out the demons. At the demoniac at the tombs, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, son of man, why are you here before your point of time? Yeah, and you read that. Oh, we just gloss over that part of that question of it.

Well, that's a, that's a big question. How did that demon know that? Well, but what is Jesus doing there? And what is a demon? You know, what is it? Where did it come from? Where did it come from? The story about the people who give themselves to that,

because he was hurting himself and he was showing weird power and you know and you get into these people's lives you see similar things and you're like maybe there's something to this yeah but it's not just in that moment it's not just jesus saying i'm going to go prove that i am who i say i am let me pick out some random places to go do miracles and cast out demons there's a there there it's all part of the grand story there's a reason why he's in that place and that territory this is what and what i love about us when you're visiting the word the jesus is and his movements from this lens in the kind of the last almost five years now

of our journey is realizing how intentional Christ's movements were. It's not random. He didn't, like when they go to Cesar of Philippi, when he takes them to the gates of hell, right, and has a speech. That isn't like we're just going to take a little 10 minute walk this way from Nazareth.

It is like far, like wear out your sandals walk. It was intentional. And that happens to be at the base of Mount Herman, which is where according to, yeah, where the, the angels ascended in Genesis 6. And so the cosmic, as we said our show, significance of cosmic geography of what he was doing.

So, so intentional as he steps out of, into Gentile territory, these, I think that just, it's like this 3D view of the gospel and realizing that Christ is undoing so much of the darkness has done. I mean, his intentionality of his movements, locations, the things he does, it's just, he's playing 40 chess.

And as you guys are movie makers, storytellers, and you're trying to tell this whole story of, you know, you understand that when you plug in the characters of any film, any story, you go back to the beginning, you know, it's like why Star Wars was never really over. It started somewhere and then we kind of hop into this story that's been going on for a while. And I think a lot of times a church kind of sticks around to the crucifixion

and they kind of just stay there forever. And they never go all the way back. Why did the world get flooded again? then you get to your 20s and you start asking harder questions to your pastor or your dad or whatever and you're like, I don't want to be a Christian anymore because I don't understand

why a loving God would flood the world but when you go back and you're like, let's go to the beginning of the movie. Let's go back to the beginning. So we watch 15 minutes in there somewhere and then we come up with wild conclusions and then I think it does a disservice to our faith in the long run.

You've got whole groups that are saying you don't really need to even study the Old Testament. I mean, why do we need that? We'll just pick it out where Jesus comes in. and think about how you miss the whole, you know, origin of the story. And I've said this a lot that you talk about something like human sexuality as God designed it and you have someone that comes in from this worldview. They come up here.

They ask the question. You give them the answer from the Bible. They bring it back over here and interpret it. And they're like, man, this sounds ridiculous. You know, well, yeah, because you interpret it in a different worldview. Then you have to understand it in the context of what, like, who is God? What is, you know, who is man? And I think this is what it does to have the grand story of this, that all these things,

Jesus' ministry was not an accident. It's almost like an overlay of the Old Testament story. I mean, you got the whole exodus, you got the redeat. I mean, it's a perfect, seamless story. And he's doing so many things we don't know what he's doing. We don't understand what he's doing. And I think it's like a 4D, a war that he's playing. And we see the 3D.

You know, we see what's going on. We see our sin and we see the things that we do wrong. We don't understand what else he's doing in that fourth dimension, that spiritual realm of there were laws that were broken and there were curses that were put on humanity. And he's undoing those, and we're just thinking, oh, we're the center of this story. Look at us.

And we have no humility when we read it. No, that's good. That's so good. Well, man, that went fast. Yeah, sorry. We're out of time. This was way better than I was anticipated. All right.

I'll drop. I know it was a low bar jace. A low bar, but I think you should make an amendment because it's blurred at first, but then it becomes clear. You know, the name of our show is actually from a, it's a joke. The whole thing is, it's from a Mitch Hedberg joke where he basically says, maybe it's, I'll paraphrase it, but he just talks about how all the pictures of Bigfoot are blurry. He says, is even more terrifying, it would be the idea there's actually a blurry creature running around like so. A large out-of-focused monster.

There was a lot of blurry things running around in the 60s. It's true. That was the creature of the eye. So tell our audience that, because we didn't mention about podcasts being a perfect place to talk about. It's also a perfect place to share ideas on other podcasts. And I know some of our listeners are going to know more. So how do they find you guys? Yeah.

Blurry Creatures.com or just check out Blurry Creatures on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. And our YouTube's starting to pump. We just moved to a full video show. So you can check us out there on YouTube. I had so much more I wanted to ask you. I didn't even get to the drum. I wanted to ask you about the fans. We'll have to do that.

We'll have to have you back. You guys can be our resident guests. That episode we did with the Chads, we asked them about the drones. That did really well. Yeah, it was. We're getting the weirdest stuff sent to us. The last thing I'll say is like every day,

people are sending us the most bizarre things. And I wonder if it's related to when Jesus talks about the days of Noah in the New Testament, like signs and wonders from heaven and weird monsters and things. Check out that verse. We've now set up the next appearance by the blurring guys. for having us. Next time.

Next time. Thank you guys. Thank you guys for coming. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.