Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1041 | Jase Dives In to How He Avoids Satanic Traps & What Demons Can Really Do to Us

Episode Date: February 14, 2025

Jase and the guys dive deep into the evil one, angels, and demons with best-selling author Jonathan “JP” Pokluda. JP’s newest book wrestles with spiritual warfare and how to tell the difference between coincidence and intervention from the spirit world. Al is convinced that evil forces will be agitated by the growing revival of Christianity among young people all over the country. Jase offers tips he learned from his days in the spotlight on how to avoid the traps Satan sets for us. — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. I was, I'm in my new studio, Zach, and down here at the, the updated Southern layer. Yeah. And I'm in a very tight space here. In fact, our new studio back home is as much bigger and roomier. And I've noticed there's a lot of reasons for me to lose weight, but one of them is so I can get in and out of this studio. because it's a bit of a tight squeeze. So we're going to work on that. I'm glad you're able to talk about yourself and such a...

You know me, Jay. The one thing I am is thick-skinned and honest. We are thick-skinned, so you can say the comments that I'm not reading. Maddie said, someone asked if you even like Zach. He's my cousin. and I love him. We see eye to eye on a lot of things. But you've got to have fat, right?

You will point out of the wake- I didn't say that. But I hate to tell you all this, boys, after the, because we do two podcasts and one day, and I'm still not clicking on all cylinders because I had this demonic force come in me. No, I'm not sure. We're going to be talking about spiritual warfare today,

so maybe you can have to have some. I just had some. Exorcist. and we had mentioned it on the exercise, the demon. With Chase, the whole discussion you were given made me so glad that the Holy Spirit whisked me away like it did, you know, fill up and some of the early, because it whisked me away from Westman Road down here to the Southern layer. So I would be nowhere near you with this demonic flu. Well, that's not just, Jace.

It's the whole, it's honestly that whole area that you live in. It's that street. No, Zach, we live about a couple miles from a paper meal that is just, and look, I have no facts on this. So, I mean, most of my friends work at the paper meal. So guess what? We'll die happy in the Lord. But it just seems like if you're pumping a lot of smoke and everybody's going, and it actually stinks, you know. Like, why don't know why everybody's sick around here?

I don't know. Maybe all that smoke I'm ingesting, but. And Jay, you have. and I are 50 years down the road from we were kids before they actually cleaned a lot of it up, because we can remember periods where the river would turn black. Well, they dump all the chemicals in the river, but I'll tell you what, I've been sick, really sick, twice in the last eight months. And both of those experiences, the family of origin, and I mentioned this on a previous podcast,

was Willie and Corey. Well, you believe that. How can you prove it? See, let me go a different angle here. Here's what I think happened. I'm trying to be grateful and thankful because that is part of our purpose. I believe First of the Thessalonian says,

rejoice always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances. And so on the previous podcast, I mean, look, I looked at what my dad's going through and I thought, okay, so I threw up for 24 hours. Could be one. I'm better, you know. I mean, so here's what I think it was.

I just went duck hunting for 60 days. And that's, oh, boy, that sounds so much fun. There's a lot of work that goes on. It is, it turns into a survival course. I mean, if you haven't noticed, because I probably don't think y'all would, I've lost weight. I mean, it has been, it was, because I didn't have my dad there with me and I didn't realize, how much work he actually does him and his posse.

Yeah. And so that kind of fell on me. Well, then we're training the duck boys at the same time. Well, I didn't sign up for that. Jay just had them lined up like, here are the new recruits. And what I misunderstood, Jay's, because I thought the duck boys, part of their job, was to make that sort of job, your job, easier, that they were going to be the new labor force, the new posse. Well, that is true.

However, that training, it's like when you see a drill sergeant, you think, boy, he's got a good job. Well, look at what he's having to do. He's working his butt off trying to get these young men whipped up into shape. I didn't realize how much work they're actually doing because I thought this is a challenge. And I will say this, not all the duck boys, one of the duck boys is 50 years old. Oh, wow. Yeah. So that's a perpetual adolescent.

Yeah, and I don't want to mention any names, but that's Jersey Joe. He had never duck hunted before he came down here. You're going to hurt his feelings, man. No, I've already done that multiple times. We're thinking in his skin. Yeah, and, well, it was so funny. He is doing the work. You've got to admit, I mean, he's cooked quite a few meals.

He's put the work in, I will say. Well, our relationship got started as I did not volunteer for this job to train these men in the world of duck hunting. But when I go duck hunting, there's a lot of things that you have to do. And basically, you have to embrace the process. I mean, I've given the Joe Paterno speech that Phil gave me many times when I was a kid. Y'all remember the Joe Paterno speech. He's like, when you shoot a bunch of ducks, you don't hoop and holler and act like that's never happened before. Act like you've been there.

Act like you've been there. Well, here was my problem. When I started giving that speech, I was getting a puzzled look from the duck boys. And I was like, what's the problem? And somebody said, who's Joe Paterno? Okay. So I realized there's a generational gap. Your pop culture references aren't going to land.

You're going to have to, yeah. You got to get on TikTok, Jace. Get you a TikTok and start looking at what they're talking. talking about it'll help you connect with the kids with the young people i'm going to have to reserve that to uh my see you can only quote nick sabin jays when you're talking to this generation that i don't i don't do ticot nor have i ever been there and i never get past the name and the origin but i got a question for you jays are these duck boys or buck boys or both because i'm confused You saw a picture of the completion.

They were sporting the deer that were killed, not the ducks. I'm confused. Whoever's mentoring them on the deer hunting is doing a fine job. I will tell you that. Okay. Now you've got the point of conflict. Everybody knows in our family, you know, Willie is kind of in charge of the deer operation. Yeah, Buck Commander.

I'm in charge of the duck operation. We put our money where our mouth is and bought the land with my dad. With that in mind, you handle the deer, I handle the ducks. Well, there's a lot of differences in that. The obvious are you look at Willie's body type and look at mine. Well, deer is an all you can eat buffet. A duck is an appetizer. So, okay.

Deer is easy. Are you calling, hold on, just sort of clarify, are you calling Willie Fat? I'll stand by what I said. Deer is easy. And now people say, oh, what is Jake? Deer's easy? That's why Willie does it. You know what the number one prerequisite to being a great deer hunter is?

What is the most important thing? Being able to sit long time and be patient. Bingo. Wow. Give him a prize. Let's see. Okay, so think about that. You're telling your friends and loved ones.

You know what I'm really good at? Sitting on my butt for long periods of time pulling a trigger with a scope that technology has gotten so far. This is what you call clickbait content right here. Yeah. So now look, haven't said all that, I love to eat deer. And so I used to be a deer hunter. But you think duck hunting is more sporty is what I hear you said. No, I don't think it is.

It is way more competitive. It brings way more out of you. It's a bigger challenge. These ducks are from Canada. They came from Canada. And you have to convince them that your painted pieces of plastic are real ducks with just a duck call and a presentation. come on come on

and we'll say to buttress your point when you look at a deer stand it's very man-made looking and you just go out there and set it down and it's there whereas the duck blind has to be the most

natural looking apparatus in the woods if you think I'm hating on deer I love to eat deer I may in part of our arguments in our land I don't know what you call it.

Your joint venture. Yeah, because it's a problem because these things keep coming up. The deer hunters, when they shoot a rifle, they flare off ducks. When I shoot a shotgun at ducks, deer just yawn. They don't care. They don't even get up out of their bed. The most famous scene we ever had of all duck productions was when a deep, crossed our duck hunting area.

We had just shot 20 times at two down gadwalls. And five seconds later, a deer came out and said, hey, what's all that racket? And my dad shot the deer. And he did the flip. Well, we've talked about that many times. And by the way, if you're new and listening and you hadn't listened, you can Google that because it's everywhere on the internet and watch it. The scene, one of those famous scene in duckmen lore.

Yeah, so they didn't like my deer hunting style because I didn't shoot big bucks because they're not as good to eat. I don't mind watching them. Oh, great, there's a big buck. What a beautiful creation from God. I'm not hating on it. Great. If you want to go out there and watch them, but if you, I'm all into table fare, the greatest

deer you can eat is under 50 pounds. I don't have to take it to a processor. I can clean it myself. There's no tenderizer used. There's zero gaminess to it. You can salt brine if you want. You don't have to. You can just eat him right then, and it's spectacular.

So that makes them nervous because they want to grow big deer. They don't like Jay shooting little deer. And they deem that they've convinced our kids that somehow another that that's not appropriate or sporty. I actually literally with one of the duck boys, his daughter, and I'm calling him a duck boy because his view on deer hunting caused him to be in that camp because his daughter, who's nine years old, called me on the phone and said, Mr. Jase, please quit shooting the little deer. Let him grow up.

I thought, you've gotten your daughter to call me and tell me, you know, she want, he let her watch Bambi three times, and then she called me and is like, save the little deer. like, no, little girl, I'm going to kill one just for you and eat it and think of you. So was that extra calisthenics for that duckman? Well, it was an argument. And I was like, hey, if you don't agree, that's one thing. But don't bring in the little kids and indoctinate them and this false teaching that you're saying. I eat deer.

We have plenty of them and they're better to eat. And I'm going to do it. So, having said all that, I quit shooting little deer. And what they do is they say, just stay out of this. deer hunting will bring you a sacrificial deer lamb when you want it. And they have to be fair. And they have. And it's cleaned.

They bring me two or three yearlands a year. And I stay away. And what they do for me is they have to use a silencer or a bow. And it's been a pretty good deal. So they're deer hunting. I haven't deer hunted in five years. So we've kind of produced this here in our opening. discussion, this idea of two sides. I think maybe that's our perfect lead-in to our guests that's

about to come on, except this is much more serious of the discussion. He's going to talk about two sides, good and evil. And so when we come back from our break, we'll introduce our guests we got coming on today. Welcome back. We have been joined by an esteemed guest that we're super excited about. Jonathan Pekluda. We're going to call you J.P. Jonathan. Yeah, just because we short names. That's what we do. It's the Robertson way. That's so much better than what Willie called me, so I appreciate it. I'm grateful.

So Willie, so that was my next question, because I've seen you on Sadie's podcast. That's our sister podcast. But I was wondering your, your experiences with that wing of our family because Willie is his own entity, but I was wondering if he'd given you a nickname or probably

nothing you can share on the podcast. No, I was sitting, I was sitting in staff we have a staff meeting every Tuesday we call staff prayer and um I was sitting in there and I got this just random text it was like hey I heard your message of passion you did a great job dash Willie and I mean I you know I don't I never talked to Willie I never met Willie or anything and I just was like and I looked at that and I was like who who is Willie and that you just summed up mine just like this is my guy. right here. Willie Robertson just

texting me. I'm a big, big fan of the whole family. I'll be honest. I've tracked, I'm a day oneer. I'm an OG way back fan and you know, all the things. I'm in. I'm 100% in.

And if you really want to make a young man's dream come true, like let's get in a duck blind or something. I'm ready. Well, Jason's the guy now to control. I've been doing a lot of that. We just, you know, You probably didn't listen to our cold open, but there's a little bit of, what is the word?

Animosity. No, it's not animosity. Conflict. Tension. Tension. Yeah. Between the deer hunters and the duck hunters. And Willie's kind of the deer hunting aspect of our family.

And I clearly laid out the sides. I'm the duck hunting. Duck hunting is way harder and more challenging. but it just causes a few problems because we're doing two things on one piece of property. Yeah. And so I'm trying to get these young men who we've been introduced to. And we're, you know, it's not just about duck hunting versus deer hunting. Yeah.

We're trying to turn them into Jesus men who are out there, you know, showing some courage. So, you know, the duck blind is a better setting because this was something I didn't say, In the deer hunting world, you know, they whisper. They're like, oh. Yeah. You know, it's kind of hard to have a conversation about Jesus when you're whispering. I'm more of a, let's shout it to the world. I have y'all taken to Christian?

I mean, is he okay? Is he in the family? Christian is one of the duck boys. He's come a long way since the beginning. He, on the first day, I guess I can share this. I mean, look, at this point, I've hurt all their feelings, so it's not going to get any worse. Yeah, mine as well. But we have a drill sergeant whose name is Jay.

He's our son-in-law. He organizes the duck boys. I don't actually do anything other than just when they show up. I'm like, you go here, you go there, don't do this, do this. And then I give them a long sermon about Jesus and family. But on the first day, the drill sergeant, Jay, had an impromptu meeting after the hunt. and he didn't mention any names, but I just remembered that Christian spent a lot of time on his phone

while we were duck hunting. Oh, wow. And he realized that that is a no-go for future endeavors. It's like if we have to have a basket where you turn your phone in because it's like you're missing the best part of what this offers. And I will admit he's come a long way since then. Like get off TikTok, Christian. I've been training that young man trying to get him in shape.

And so we're just about there. You've been very excited. And if I'm not mistaken, I don't really know all of this, but I know now it's out publicly about the new, the Duck Dynasty, what are they called, revival. Right. Is a lot about what we're talking about from what I gather because it's a lot about the next generation, which includes those ducks slash buck boys. So I think that's kind of the undercurrent of.

the show. You may know more than me. A lot of people are asking about this reason I want to bring it on the podcast because a lot of people are asking what's the show going to be about. But it's still our family, but it's definitely that next generation. Round two. Yeah, round two, exactly. Oh, yeah, I actually talked to Willie about that last night.

I actually talked to Willie last night for over an hour. Whoa. That just shows you, even though we have the reputation of not getting along, deep down he loves me. And, yeah, so, no, we had a good conversation. But I actually said that. I was like, can we, because I've been everywhere I go, I've been seeing them around. You know, it's an army of cameramen and different things.

And he's like, yeah, we're going to need you on some of this duck boy stuff. I heard that, y'all, it's like a military training operation. I was like, well, Willie, deep down, you know, we're trying to turn them into young disciples for the Lord. And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know. but we'll need to do some of that stuff. So I guess at some point. I was wondering if they were going to bring the grizzle back in. Well, I don't mind.

I mean, I think it's a noble thing. I mean, these, you know, you've got to remember some young men are, you know, they're in situations where they don't have older men talking to them about life. And, you know, the duck line is a perfect thing to do. And there's an element of danger, which I've always said, the most profound things. and exciting things you can do if there is an element of danger involved. And that's been our big major thing is safety. Because when you're in a duck line, you're all together and you all have weapons.

Well, these guns in close proximity, I mean, they're more than dangerous. They will kill you. People have accidents every year. So the first day, there was one of the duck boys shot across the blind. Like we're in a two-way blind that there's like five men on one side and five on the other. And the N man, who was a duck boy, shot across the blind. Come on, Christian. Exactly.

I wasn't going to say the name. Unbelievable. Well, we had to have JP on two name names. That's what I love. JP's got an incredible ministry going. I've been keeping up with what you're doing on Instagram. And you guys have been hitting these college campuses. It's been wild.

I mean, I want to hear about this because it looks like old school revivals, mass, spontaneous baptisms, which is right up our alley on that way. I'd love to hear like, what in the world is going on, man? It's the craziest thing. So I got invited to this to speak at Auburn University. And the event was in six weeks, which, you know, not trying to big time anybody. I just usually have more of a heads up than that. And it was like, can you do this in six weeks? I was like, no, I can't do it.

I mean, there's a process that goes in front of the elders and all that. I was like, nah, I'm not. Can't do it in six weeks. And then a buddy of mine called and said, hey, this is my mother-in-law. You know, her husband's the assistant coach there at Auburn. And, you know, would you do that? And I was like, all right, I'll do it. And so we get on a plane and go over there.

And I'm thinking I'm going to talk to 600 college students. That's just kind of what was in my head. And we got there and they filled the basketball arena. and it was 6,000 college students. And she wanted this real specific message on sexual sin. It's a really hard message. It's not a feel-good message. And just, I mean, it's First Thessalonians 4.

It ends with God as the avenger of such things. And so I'm like, you know, teaching that and working in grace. And then Jenny went up after me, Jenny Allen. And so this woman, her name is Tanya, And she had just been praying like prayer walking this campus, just praying for revival, praying that the Holy Spirit would just do a work. And she just was so burdened by some of the stories she was hearing from these college students about their addiction and just being enslaved to sin. And so we, you know, at the end of the night, we did an altar call. And this one college girl texted in and said, hey, I've never been baptized.

And Jenny's on stage just, it's so organic. She's just having a conversation with the crowd is like, hey, is there water nearby? and they're like the Red Barn. And she's like, all right, we're going to the Red Barn. And then we just all, we thought it was like across the street, but it was a half a mile away. And so we all just thousands of us walked out to the Red Barn. And we started doing baptisms and 350 college students got baptized that night. And some of those were like 20 minute conversation.

It wasn't just line up and dunk. It was like, man, let me make sure you understand Jesus died for your sins. God raised him from the dead. Just really clarifying the gospel. And so we were out until about 2 a.m. I mean, we came back after midnight and just kind of talked through everything. And it was amazing. And like, if that was it, it was like, that was one of the most fun nights I've ever had in my life.

And we thought it was over. Well, then Alabama called and then Tennessee and then Georgia. And so we just started doing this SEC tour. And that has turned into, you know, we've got done 11 campuses. And they've all been kind of the same. I mean, different, but thousands come. thousands trust in Jesus, hundreds get baptized, happens at every campus we've been to. And so it's really changed my life because I, you know, I pastor a church full time.

And so, you know, have a staff and all that. And it really has changed my life and my job description and everything, trying to figure it out. Have y'all kept it to God's Chosen Conference, the SEC? Have you gone out to the nations? We're going to the nations. Like now we're reaching, now we're reaching the law. Every guy. It's true outreach now.

Did you start out, JP, in campus ministry? No, young adults. I was raised Catholic and didn't go to church in college. You know, they say drug sex and rock and roll. It's kind of drug sex and hip-hop in my case. And I was at a club 22 years ago and someone invited me to church. And I sat in the back row, hungover, smelled like smoke from the night before,

and started wrestling with what do I really believe about God? Because I've always said I was a Christian, like, you know, what are the odds I'd be born to the right country? And if I was born in India, I'd be Hindu. If I was born in China, I'd be Buddhist. If I was born in Israel, I'd be Jewish, you know, and I just started wrestling with this. And so I started looking at world religions, the Hindu faith, the Buddhist faith, the Jewish faith, Islamic faith, Mormons, Jova's Witness, Church of Christian Science,

Scientology. And I kept tripping over Jesus in history that somehow 2,025 years ago, this carpenter born in Bethlehem reset the calendar. And Bethlehem is a little bitty tiny town smaller than West Monroe that no one would have heard of except for Jesus was born there. And Nazareth is a city that we wouldn't know the name of except for Jesus lived there. So how did this guy become the single most polarizing character in the history of history? And I realized, you know, in studying that, that it's because he died and showed back up three days later. And Paul says over 500 people saw him. And I, you know, I'm a porn addict at the time, sex addict, drug user, you know, and not, like, and I've got my,

you would have thought I had my act together, you know, because I was trying to be a millionaire before I was 30, was chasing the dollar. It was kind of everything wrong with Dallas and a person. And I just realized, like, this guy paid for my sins. And if he paid for my sins, then I don't have to pay for my sins, you know, and I don't, you know, there's a lot of sins and I don't want to pay for him. And so if he paid for him, then, man, I'm just going to go all in with him. And then as I went all in with him, I thought, you know, if this stuff is true and people can live forever, like, we're all going to die and we're going to be somewhere forever, I'm going to tell everybody. I've got to tell the whole world about this. And so then went into ministry five years later and really was setting out chairs. No one was giving me a microphone like, hey, come speak. You know, they were like, we don't trust him. We're not even sure he's saved. You can put chairs in a circle. And so I did that for a little while and did some announcements. And then one Tuesday, actually, they were like,

Like, why don't you teach? It was a young adult ministry, and it grew to be the biggest in the country, and it's still rock and rolling there. But then we, and then I became the pastor of that church that I just talked about that I stumbled into, hungover. And then six years ago, we moved to Waco. Wow. That's amazing. And it reminds me a lot, Jay's, when he was saying that, when Jason and I were interns right out of seminary, which I went in a full-time word, Jason ever did. But I would say our internship, Jay's, the two things that we excelled at were chairs, had to set up chairs in different configurations and also moving people.

We became, we could have started our own moving company just out of our experiences for the church. Oh, what's weird is we both technically went into full-time ministry. I just didn't get paid for it. And I just barely got paid for it. Which was okay with me because I'm. I mean, I had a similar experience because, you know, you told that story and what stood out to me, which is because I realize I beat to a different drumbeat, but is some guy invited you to church at the club. And because that was kind of my role when I first got married.

And you think, well, what does that have to do with being married? But I had shared Jesus with so many of my friends and people. I'd just like gone public for Jesus. Yeah. But nobody was responding because it was kind of the same experience you had. They're like, I mean, you're just some wilderness guy. What do you? What do you know?

But the first guy that responded was actually one of my best friends from high school. I mean, it took him about three years to respond, but he did when I, because I asked him to be a groomsman. I asked him to be my best man at my wedding. And he was like, well, what happened to this? You know, you shared Jesus with? Because once I shared Jesus with him, we basically went two different directions. He was like, no, I'm got all these things I want to do. And it was pretty much the list you gave.

But once he responded, it just started this firestorm of people coming. His friend got his friend, his friend, his friend. And then his sister responded. And it literally, our first year of marriage, which was. kind of terrible from a marriage standpoint because I just was going so many places, even a couple of bars. I didn't go in them, but I was outside of them, you know, inviting people, you know, to come be a part of us. I mean, I just went crazy. I was young.

And we, I realized then that whatever I do, I'm going to have to do it with my wife. Because she wanted to do that. And Al mentioned your bio when it, the way you described your wife. And I thought it was really profound. Yeah, it was actually a dedication in your latest book, which I want to talk about something called your story, has a villain. And it struck me, JP, because me being a pastor for many years and, to be quite honest, struggled mightily in my early years being more passionate about the bride of Christ than my own bride and my kids and kind of left them behind. but you said my wife Monica is a partner in ministry and together it says in the dedication day disciple in their three children and then you list your children's names and i just that struck me

ral off the bat as being a guy who's been in full-time ministry a long time that one is you your wife is right there with you in the ministry but also your first job is to disciple your kids before you ever do anything about the kingdom but yeah man she's uh she's incredible and she's i mean you guys would love her man she's your people 100 percent And she's from a small town around here. And so am I, born and raised in a small town, South Texas. And she just loves the fan. Like, I love adventure and go and do, and I'm an extrovert.

And she, like her dream date night is just like a game night on the kitchen floor. And I'm, you know, I want to go, I'll get the limo and 100 roses and write a song. And all of that's just lost on her. She's like, no, no, I don't want any of that. Like, let's, I'm just going to make, I'll make dinner here and we'll just stay here and why don't we play, play, you know, go fish with the kids. And it's like, that's her, that's her dream evening. So she's, she's awesome. And I couldn't do any of this without her.

And in fact, we, like, where we have to be careful now is I want to make sure she misses me when I'm gone, you know, because it's like, I'm going away. I'm doing these, these things. They're just like, hey, baby, I'm coming back now, okay? Don't you make sure you don't change the locks on me. But yeah, it's been sweet. Your book on Spiritual Warfare, which by the way, I think we probably get more questions about this topic than almost anything else that we talk about, which is kind of interesting because you mentioned in the book about a lot of people don't even believe in the devil. They don't even believe in the spiritual realm. Right.

Even in the church. I was curious with you coming out of kind of this revival. ministry. Did that play into kind of this you wanted to dive into the spiritual realm? No, it was in the works. And I think the Lord went before me because I got into this because I wanted to learn about it. Because I was, you know, Catholic background. And then I got saved in a non-denominational church and we never really talked about

angels and demons. And yes, like you have an enemy. Like you're just, you know, Satan this, Satan, that. But I just here was the deal. It was like this story. Somebody is like, hey, they, they. They got up, they got dressed, they're going to go to church for the first time in a while, a Sunday morning. They plan to go.

They're all in. And they got in their car and they turned the key and it goes, you know, the battery's dead. And they're like, oh, man, spiritual warfare. Well, I'm like, what in the world did a demon do? Like, did it have to pop the hood? Did it leave the light on, leave the door open? Like, how many demons does it take to run a car battery? And then when you take your car in and they're like, oh, is your alternator?

or was that a plan for the past six months? Like were they wearing down a while? Like what in the world can they do? And I realize like there's a whole lot of Christians out there completely okay with not knowing. And just kind of as you heard my story, you realize like I'm just I'm kind of like doubting Thomas. You know, it's like I'm not okay. I want to know everything I can know. Like I understand there's a mystery aspect of God and I respect and honor that.

But if it's available to know, I'd like to know. I started just researching the Bible has more to say about spiritual warfare than it does about marriage. Well, you know, we're happy to teach about marriage and, you know, give the tips and tricks in Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3 and 1st Peter 3. But there's this other thing of angels and demons, this war happening around us. And I'm just trying to figure out what happened to the car battery, you know. And so that's really how this book was born. And that was before the unite stuff happened. And I would just say, man, you got to be careful if you want to write a book.

on spiritual warfare because, I mean, the enemy just came out full force after I signed the contract for this one. But so did God. I mean, there were just blessings all over the place also, Unite Being One of them. Yeah, I just interacted recently with Michael Heiser's book, The Unseen Realm, and it was just eye-opening to think about the, there is a cosmic battle. And it talks about this Deuteronomy 32 worldview that, I think it's a little scary for us to dive into that to think about, no, there's like an organized effort on both the side of our, of Yahweh and on the side of this evil demonic realm that's warring over the souls of human beings. I mean, that's a scary thought, but it's comforting too, as you just mentioned, that God shows up

even more so. And the Bible says, we're sitting, increases grace abounds all the more. And I just think, man, how amazing is our God that we can rest in that. But it's even to even to that rise point, because, you know, you mentioned, and I had no idea, JP, that you were even apart. I had read about and seen some things about the Auburn deal because they had gone on for a while. And it's interesting because I first became aware of it out of negative. In other words, the coach had been involved.

And so these people from D.C. had come in and said, you can't be involved in these. And immediately there was this like people wanted to shut this down. attack. And so I immediately thought, oh, man, look at this. Somebody has had an organic situation where people have come to Christ in a college setting where we're always complaining about college kids and how they party and they do this, they do that, they destroy their future. And now we have this good thing happen. And all I'm seeing about it is this negative attack, you know, and the badness of it. So it really just highlights, and I had no idea about

the other campuses. So it kind of illustrates exactly what you talk about in the book. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Heiser's, you mentioned him, he's another level. This book is kind of for, like, if you picked up Michael Heiser's book and then you set it back down, he's like, okay, he's, that's deep waters. This is kind of a layman's guide to spiritual warfare. And so it's, yeah, and it really was a learning, a three-year learning journey for me of reading guys like him and others. That's what I liked about it, though.

You know, we were kind of the first time, I think it's called Seeing the Unseen, came out from Joe Beam. I don't know if you're familiar with that. But, boy, it was like some of that I'd have to put down thinking, I don't know about that. You know, it just took a real technical dive, which I love the book. But I thought, you know, you had an interesting quote, which is a famous quote by C.S. Lewis in your book, that most people, let's face it, either the, I think you had an ad or some poll that had come out that you mentioned. You can give the details on it because I can't remember. But I think it was only 56% of, you know,

Jesus believing people believed in this spiritual warfare aspect in some capacity. And so, yeah, the CS-Lewis quote where either people are just like, it's not real or they're on the other end. they take way too much interest in it, which is the darkness in which they sometimes become, you know, overcome by it. And I thought that was interesting because, you know, at the end of the day,

Jesus is the ultimate victory of this spiritual war. I mean, that's why he's so appealing in your speech that you gave. You're like, you know, he came down here to destroy the devil's work. Yeah. So I was just, I guess, curious about that on how we need, you know, to make this more of a conversation where it's not so awkward for people. Yes, C.S. Lewis says there's two mistakes we make about the devils. One is, you know, believing that they don't exist. The other is, you know, believing that they are involved in everything that we do.

I think there's a third mistake, which is believing that they exist and not caring. And it had like that belief, like just this idea that there's a, there's a devil, and he may be devils, as C.S. Lewis says. And that just having no implications for our lives. And the reality is the spiritual is the eternal. And so the world is temporary. Like the world is we know it, at least is temporary. The things that we love in the world is temporary. And so I think that's the battle is Satan is trying to keep us from. having an intimate relationship, a deep closeness with God. That's what he started in the garden in Genesis chapter 3. And that's still what he's, that is still what he's doing today is he's trying to prevent us from having a close relationship with God. So when somebody's listening right now or watching, it says, you know, when I go to pray, I'm just so distracted, all these thoughts coming to my mind with spiritual warfare. When I read the Bible, it just doesn't always make sense. You know, the words. I'm like, oh, man, I don't really know what I'm reading. My mind.

wonders, that spirit's work. He does not want you growing that relationship with God. What you see in the garden is Adam and Eve, they were able to commune with God and talk with them. And he talked back and they heard him and there was a relationship there. And then the serpent comes in between there and says, hey, God's trying to keep something from you. You know, if you, you eat from this, you're going to be like him. And ultimately, when God comes up and he says, Adam, where are you? Well, God knows where Adam is. He's omnipotent. He knows everything.

He knows Adam's mind. But when he says, where are you? It's not so much disappointment as much as it is distance. And then when we sin, we feel far from God. And so that's the feeling that we have whenever we sin. And so what's the solution? Again, spiritual warfare is confession. It's repentance.

It's like, hey, I'm going to turn from this. I'm going to make it really difficult for me to continue in this sin. And so there's people watching and listening right now. You know there's some stuff that owns you. You know, there's some things that you keep going back to like a dog to his vomit. And we've got to say, all right, this is the enemy. He's trying to lure me away and hinder me because 2 Corinthians chapter 4, verse 4 says that Satan is the God of this world, the lowercase G, God of this world.

But 1st John chapter 4, verse 4 says, greater is he who is in me than he who is in the world. And so I have everything that I need for victory. Satan's not afraid of me, but he's terrified of my God. he's terrified of my Jesus. So the solution is for me to remain close to Jesus and to foster my relationship with God and grow that relationship with God. And that's ultimately what's going to protect me from the enemy. How much more effective is evil, is the evil one and the devils if we don't even believe

that they're there trying to deceive us, but we get into the deceit that with Adam and evil ran, I love that you mentioned that out of Genesis, that they ran and hid from God. I mean, that is, that is what sin does is it causes us to withdraw and to hide and to not be known. And I think about all my own anxieties in life and depressions and fears and issues that have come up from this fear of being known. And what if I'm exposed? And then on the other side of that, because this is a spiritual warfare, that you have the Holy Spirit, you know, who is, who is guiding us into all truth and wants us to come out and to be known and to be seen by God and to be covered by him as, as God did in the garden. He slaughtered the animal, you know, and made the suitable covering for them.

I think that's so, so important. I mean, what has been your reception with this with, because I guess the book just came out. Yeah, it just came out. It's been out not that long, but I'm sure you shared a dance reader copies like you did with us and maybe with some young people. What's been the reception as people have started to interact with it? It's been really fun. I mean, probably the most significant work I've been a part of. This was my sixth book, but it debuted, you know, top 50 on Amazon on all the books,

which is, you know, a milestone for me at least. And then people, you know, I got an email or a text message rather this morning, just said I started reading it last night. You know, thanks a lot. I'm so tired today. I couldn't put it down until 3 a.m. And I think it's because, you know, John 1010 says the thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy.

But I've come to have to give life that they might. I've come for life so they might have it abundantly. And, you know, there's a longing in all of our hearts for the abundant life that Jesus offers. And it's, you know, I think that there's just people out there that think there's a bunch of church folks playing games and pretending to talk to this invisible deity and just going and feeling good. And hey, that's good that works for you. You sing your feel good songs. It's like, no, man, there's a creator of the heavens and the earth and you're going to face him. You're going to be with him forever.

Or you're going to be somewhere forever and ever and ever and ever and ever. and he wants to get his children back. And like, yeah, he lost his children to sin and death and disease. But he's, man, he's gone to great lengths to get us back and allowing his one and only son, Jesus, to die for our sins and raised him from the dead. And like, yeah, there's an aspect of the spiritual war that's scary. You know, I mean, in the book I tell this crazy story of being in a country club and this guy just going wild on me, you know.

and I had never seen anything like that. I'd been in the Amazon jungle three times, have been Africa multiple times, have been Haiti six times, and I had never seen what was happening in this country club with this guy. And so I just think Satan's going to show up more and more. He's showing his hands.

As we're seeing revivals, as we're seeing college campuses and college students come into a relation with Jesus, as we're seeing revivals in prison. I don't think the enemy's too happy about it. If we can get somebody to believe in the devil, you know, then they're going to believe in God. And so I think he does his best work in hiding.

It says that he masquerades like an angel of light. He's a deceiver. He hides. He tries to stay in the shadows and tries to just convince us that he's this spooky guy. But he's a fallen angel. And they're outnumbered two to one. You know, there's more heavenly angels than there are demonic demons. Well, and I like the way that you really, and you said it earlier, you called it a layman's guide.

The practicality of you. your book, J.P. was so good and refreshing to me because this is obviously a subject you can get into and it almost feels out of reach to understand. You mentioned John 10. You used the term of pattern recognition. And I really related to that as a pastor because you were saying over the course of a couple of decades, you don't really have to look far to see the influence of evil. You can see it in people's patterns and the lifestyle destruction that it caused. in their lives. And so I think anybody can relate to that. Yeah. Man, that's true.

Yeah, I think it's helpful too, as you mentioned earlier. I think it's very, very helpful. I know the discussion of what we're having here, if there is a cosmic battle, if there is a spiritual realm and there is spiritual warfare, like what is the war about? Like, because if we don't know what the war is about, then it's almost impossible. I mean, think about if we go to wars a country with somebody, we have no clue what we're fighting over. What do we, what's the win? What's the goal? What's the point? So I think what you said earlier about God's presence, you know, that that is what the end of all this is. And I think it speaks to the soul of humanity, like anybody listening to this podcast, whether you're 15 or 75 years old, you have a longing to be connected.

You have a longing to be in unity with your creator. Like we all long for that type of presence in our life. And it really is kind of this idea of intimacy that I think is seen in the Godhead, the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, living eternally together. It's just complete unity. And I think that's what the war is about is that the devil wants to divide. He wants to destroy. He wants to separate.

He wants to isolate. And you see that playing out in cultural battles. You see it in the end result. I always use as a litmus test. How do I know if it's evil? What does it lead to isolation, separation, loneliness, and despair? If it does, I'm like, that's probably not from God. Man, that'll preach.

That'll preach. Yeah, no, he definitely. I think, you know, Christianity is a communal religion. It's a communal faith. It's, you know, and the greatest commandment is to love God and love people. Love Lord of God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. And right now it's so popular not to. It's like, ooh, I don't like people.

Like, I don't want to be. And it's like, well, then you're not going to like Christianity. And I even think this appeals, this is part of the appeal of Doug Dynasty and your family and just you guys doing life together and people watching from afar and they long for that. I mean, there's people at home. They've lived in the same house for 27 years and they don't know their neighbor's name. They don't know the guy right next door to them. They don't know their name, you know, and much less have their phone number or any way to get in contact with them. And so when you start seeing people do life on life, well, that's because we were.

made for that. Like Christianity's a team sport. We weren't made to go at this alone. And we've got to do life together. And yes, the enemy is constantly, he's like a lion in the jungle that wants to isolate the gazelle. You know, he's trying, he can't, he can't fight the whole herd of water buffalo, but he can he can get the one by itself and, and they can, you know, maybe take it down. But he can't fight the herd. And he's constantly trying to isolate somebody to to vaping, to cutting, to depression, despair, to suicide, you know, to anxiety, that's his offense. And if you know that, it's art of war kind of stuff, it's like, wait, if I, if I lean deeper

into God's people and I have them James 516, you know, I confess stuff to him and have them pray for me and I'm going to experience healing. And that's my story. And it's not just my story. I see it over and over and over again. So to your pattern recognition comment, it's like, yeah, it's like, here's the deal. There are things that you do where you fall into a pit, and there are things that you do where you find life. And you do the things that you fall into a pit, you fall into a pit, and you go deeper in the pit, and it doesn't work well for anybody.

And you do the things that lead to life, and you find life, and you get laughter and joy. And, you know, it's just like sometimes life is that simple. And I understand there's exceptions to that. I really do. I get that. But in the grand scheme of things, the 30,000 feet view, it's just. just like, man, walk in righteousness and do what God asks us to do, do the right thing, no matter how difficult it is, and seek to know your creator.

And, man, it's, for the most part, it's going to go well for you. Well, it's a fantastic book. Your story has a villain. It's broken down simply and yet, you know, such a valuable type of who the villain is, what the villain does, how to fight back. We love it. We recommend it. Wherever you buy books, go check it out.

Grab your copy. is going to make your life better. JP, thanks for coming on the Unashamed podcast. You're welcome anytime to come and talk about anything you got going on. Grateful for you, men. Grateful for your families. Blessings to you. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast.

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