Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1044 | Jase Sparks Controversy with His New Look & Where Do We Go When We Die?

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

Jase embraces a controversial fashion choice sent to him in the mail, but Zach is fairly certain Jase is being trolled. The guys are impressed by their wives’ ability to know where any single household item is at any given time. Jase’s delirium-driven Bible study leads the guys to ponder where souls go after death and where our loved ones who’ve passed on might be right now.  In this episode: John 1, verse 48; Micah 4, verse 4; Hosea 9, verse 11; Revelation 1, verses 12-17; Revelation 2, verse 7; Revelation 21, verse 22; Ezekiel 8, verses 1-4; 2 Corinthians 12, verses 1-4; Genesis 28, verse 13; Ephesians 3, verse 10 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Did you know you brought comedy? This is what happens when people laugh. This won't be stand-up comedy. This will be sit-down comedy. Because we're all sitting. Zach, we're all sitting.

Yeah, we'll be the judge of that, Jay. So we'll be the judge of the weather. Okay, I'll introduce the show today, Maddie. I feel like I need some music. We'll call this say. Can you start talking fast like that? Oh no, I can't. My voice is not up to par with Zach's ad reads, although he has been improving.

He is. He's getting his rhythm. We'll do mail call, mail call. What's in the mail? That was my little jingle, Maddie. I feel like I need a song. Maddie, could you sing it? Well, so here's what happened.

We're having to do podcast. Because one member of our team is like, traveling a lot. Well, we're having to do them in consecutive days. Right. So even though this is spread out in your world, Unashamed Nation, in our world, it seems like I've never left this room.

So we're doing like, we're trying to set the Guinness Book of World Records for most consecutive days doing two podcasts, double barrel style. So this is like multiple days. So I get home yesterday after the podcast, and we were planning a birthday party for the little one that we have. It's three.

It's three. Wow. It was, oh, yeah. It was, went by so fast. It was dubbed the fire truck birthday party. Of course. And so he's into fire trucks. So, Missy, when I walked in, shocking that a human being could transform our house into flames.

buildings, that all of this was boxes and what do you call all this stuff, decorate, you know, but she had like, it looked like buildings. You know that big chandelier

looking thing over our dinner table? It looked like it was on fire, literal fire. It was crazy. There were fire trucks everywhere. So she, she like started hollering from the kitchen while she's cooking dinner for everyone,

you know, and I said, I thought this was going to be a dinner. This is a party. Because she was like, oh, no, it's no big deal. No big deal. Oh, it's become a big deal. So she started giving me.

You don't decorate for no big deal. She started, like, giving me jobs. And I was like, oh, am I your assistant? So we kind of had a little bit of marriage. You know how it goes. And I was like, she basically wants me to help. Yeah. Do something.

So I took the car. It's called a sous chef in the cooking one. I took the garbage out. I did something, you know. Well, I thought, Well, I'll go ahead and get the mail because it's really cold and wet yesterday. And today, too. Not much better today.

It's miserable. So I get the mail and there's two packages. You can't make this up. That's why I'm saying this. I brought comedy to the podcast today because you cannot make this up. 99% of the times when I look at the address on who the packages are to, it is not me. I don't want to point at any members of my family. There's only one other person.

lives there. I didn't hear that. 99.5. Well, you took your hat off and now you can't hear it. Come on, Elmer. Get that hat back up. 99.5% of the packages that come do not have my name on it. I'm just saying on these packages.

And we're not going to tell you who the 99.5 or four, but there's only one other person that lives there, Zay. So you figured out. So, but both of these had my name on it. And I thought, oh, I haven't ordered anything. So I opened the first package, and it was a sippy cup. Evidently, on a previous podcast, I had said something about faulty sippy cups in my babysitting duties. I have no recollection of that.

If I was in a court of law, but evidently I did because I read the note. I did, Maddie? Yeah. Okay, so that was an episode. Maddie remembers everything. How do you do this many hours of podcasts and remember everything? She might have looked it up. 10 seconds.

These young kids today, they go, they're like one step ahead of me. Their thumbs, look, their thumbs move like Zach talks on an ad. Bewildering speed. Actually, Zach, I got a letter the other day from the people who made the chipmunks. claim to fame. And they said, look, do you think you can talk Zach into reading ads for us if we come out with the show again?

Alvin, Zach, Zach, that was all made up. So it was a, it looked like a Yeti cup, and I thought Yeti sent me a cup because I'm an ambassador for Yeti. We've had a long relationship with them, which I like, just full transparency. Because it kind of looked like that. But you know what the, you know what I thought the joke was?

Because you know what the name of the cup was? I'm giving them free advertisements. And I haven't even tried it out. So I'm just telling you. But you know how this gets me. It said, the miracle cup. Oh. And I thought, well, you had me.

And then you lost me. We're actually going. I feel like I can talk about this positively and negatively because I have not tried it. It's still in the package. And here's why. Because that was a birthday party, why don't you give it to the little kid? Missy's like, we're not giving that to him. It came out of the mail.

I was like, but they didn't know it was his birthday. This is a sign. That's right. I would have 100% agree with you. This came from the Almighty. They didn't know it was his birthday. Yeah. And it was a miracle.

I have not said anything about it being his birthday. Am I right, Maddie? So I thought that was interesting. But she wouldn't let me do it. She's like, we have plenty of presents. And I think deep down, she didn't want him to, like, say, oh, the cup. And then make all her presents. She didn't want the cup to overside the room full of fire equipment.

Having said this, it was a wonderful party. Okay. And true to form, you know what the number one thing he played with was? Because he had all kinds of presents. A lot of our family and neighbors. I'd say one of the decorations. The boxes that were... The buildings on fire at the fire truck.

Because he thought there's more presence than those boxes. So he's like, he kept going on the boxes. I mean, I want the buildings. I want the building. I was always going to put the fire out. No, he wanted to open all the boxes that were supposed to be buildings. So anyway, it was funny.

It was, but we had a great time. haven't said that. Package number two, now we'll have to cue some other music because just when you thought the story of the infamous trial prosecution,

seat belt story was dead. Maddie, you thought that was dead. We thought it was over. By thought, you mean hoped. We hoped it was dead. Now, Maddie literally tried to kill this story. And guess what? Unashamed Nation has brought it back. Oh boy. It's Unashamed Nation yet again. Maddie, the people have spoken. Or at least a person has spoken. And now I had a jingle for the first part. Now I feel like I need some music because I am going to disrobe on Unashamed Nation and have a revealing.

So cue some music. That's why I look. I wore Marvin Gay or Barry White. I actually wore my Yeti jacket because I don't have a shirt that buttons. I looked at my whole closet. No button. I do not own a button-up shirt. I was going to do the buttons.

Somebody bought you one, but you didn't want to wear corduroy, but that's another topic. So I get this in the mail and I have it on my body. Oh, boy. And I'm now going to reveal it. And I, because I want to appreciate Unashamed Nation, and I also want to say, like the other package, you feel like, oh, this is nice and yet disturbing. So I love our audience for those two reasons,

because this, what I'm fixing to reveal, I'm waiting for the music. I feel like we need some kind of. I would suggest the first 20 seconds of Marvin Gaye, let's get it on. Let's get it on. All right, so for you listening, I am unzipping the jacket. and I got this in the mail and it is actually

a shirt that someone in our disturbed world has made that simulates you having a seat belt on when you do not. Wow. If you're not watching, he's got on a white t-shirt with a black seat belt printed on

like a strapped in. You know what's disturbing? Someone in Unashamedamed has hit a home run today. You know what's disturbing is this is an actual product in our world? Really? Oh, yeah. It was like the seatbelt shirt.

Oh, to make it look like you're wearing it. I didn't even see it as being a deceptive idea. I know. This is about circumventing the law. This is. And I saw another one online. I don't know if this is true or not, but I saw it on Instagram. So it must be true.

You can take, you know, your license plate, you can order the numbers or the letters on your license plate. And then they send you a sticker in the mail and you take the sticker and you put it on top of your number. And what happens is when you go when you go through these cameras, you know, where they check your, you know, you're running a red light or something. I've never ran a red light. I don't believe that. Anyways, when it takes the picture, it doesn't, like it somehow doesn't come up on the camera. So you can basically search the camera. It tricks the camera. And you can... What's the first, Chase?

They invent ways of doing even. I was in the... I mean, that's what Chase is doing. He's wearing a T-shirt to circumvent... I just thought it was a joke. Wait a minute. I didn't buy this T-shirt. I didn't go out and pursue this.

Someone sent this to me, and I put it on because I thought, we're bringing it back. We're bringing the story. I will put my jacket back on because it's a little chilly in it. Yes, a little chilly. But I just thought I would reveal that, and thank you Unashamed Nation for bringing it back.

I think it was in the spirit of the resurrection. Come on. So I'm not supporting, condoning, or endorsing, because Zach interrupted me mid-sentence. I've never run a red light between the hours of 5 a.m. and 12 midnight. And as you made painfully clear in the telling and retelling of the seatbelt story, you thought you were legal on that. I thought I was not breaking.

the law. Exactly. I mean, look. In Jay's defense, he thought he was doing it. I quit breaking the law purposely many years ago. Right. So. Oh, that's good. I mean, I don't know the purpose of it, but whoever sent that, kudos to you. I think they were trolling you. I think that's, I think that was a troll. I don't know what that means. Look, when I troll. Explain what a troll. Hold on for our audience. Everybody who knows me, when we troll, that means we have some baits out. behind the boat and we're catching fish. Kind of similar. They're baiting you.

That's what it originally meant. Yeah, they're trolling like they're messing with you. They're, you know, they're, I got accused of being an internet troll one time. When I ran for Congress, there was an article that said, I was a former internet troll. Well, I had questioned. Okay. They ran through some of my tweets and they're like, oh, this guy was because I'd respond back on. This is not real.

You've now entered a fantasy world of the internet. internet where you're coming up with words that are now relating to something that's really not real. Right. But I will say this about just the dashers in general. If you probably looked up the history of the word dasher, troll is probably in there. Because you talk about troll for trouble. Yeah.

Well, you guys aren't far behind. In fact, you are just more like subtle, not even subtle. I don't know. You have a way of doing it. Well, you have a troller motor. You can put that on the front of the boat. Which, to Jason's point, at least that is an actual thing. A trolling motor is an actual thing.

But I'm just saying Robertson's troll in the other way as well, the way y'all do it. See, dashers are up front. We just come right at you. What you guys do, he feels he was the best at it. He would talk to someone adjacent, but he's messing with the, like, he's looking to the left, talking to the person on the left. That's true. He's hitting, he's trolling the person on the right.

Very effective, by the way. While you were getting upset over a non-human, probably an artificial, intelligent image of a creation that went wrong, and you were getting stressed out about something they said and deeming it as trolling. I was actually trolling, catching fish that I was going to put in my body. Thus, I'm eating more healthy, and I don't have to go on all these. have act together, Dad. And I want you to continue to do that because I've been the recipient of your trolling on many occasions. Thank you. And I'm appreciative.

I'm not chastising you for your form of trolls. That's why I'm pushing back on this because trolling is a positive thing. It will put fresh fish in your belly. You turned it into a negative because... No, I didn't turn it in. I just report. You decide. Well, but they lured you in.

to the fantasy world of, oh, I'm having an argument with somebody that might not be a body. So here's, I got one question before we leave this topic because I'm intrigued and I have been humored today. What did Missy say about this gift? Because I know she said something. Yep. I'll just give you one word. Ridiculous. That is ridiculous. In fact, when I got up this morning, I almost walked out and forgot the shirt because it got part of the windstorm that was her preparing for the party last night, which I couldn't find my phone charger.

I couldn't go to bed last night because I hadn't charged my phone in two days. Yeah. And it was just, I thought, I got to get up in the morning. We had had the little man. I had studied late, which the stuff that, we're fixing to talk about could possibly blow your mind.

Because I was sleep deprived. I'd been under the weather. And you know how you just come up with these crazy things, you know, in the Bible? Yeah. Because we left off at Jacob's ladder. We did. That's where we're going to go back. Well, let me tell you something.

We're fixing to go on a ladder ride. And Jay's has a seatbelt to hold him in. This seat. Well, I said, where's my shirt? And she's like, what shirt. I said the seat belt shirt. And she went,

roll the eyes. It's, you know, go through room, this room, take a left, go here, there's a little deal.

Yeah, I'm like. Which how do they know that? Because she wouldn't put it. Well, she put it there. I know. But I was like,

why didn't you just put it in my closet? They're always rearranging stuff. It's like, but they always know where it's at. That's what I'm saying. They all, like I'd go and look because it was some place I remember leaving something.

not there, and Lisa always knows where it is. She said, I'm not putting... Look under the third magazine on the back stool. How do they know that? She said, I'm not putting an illegal shirt in your closet. See, what's funny is I didn't even go there when I first saw it. I just thought somebody made this up, and I thought somebody is brilliant. No, that's a thing.

Oh, I got it. I got it. I didn't... I don't look at the nefarious. It's thrilling yet disturbing, which is our audience. So thank you. I'm glad to be a part of it. You keep life interesting.

It's awesome. It's very funny. And I can't remember the name of the person you sent it. Well, I figured since you didn't say it, you forgot. But you know who you are because you sent it. So they're having a big time right now, remembering that. I've been wearing my seatbelt. I actually have had two other encounters with said officer because it's like the place now.

I notice where he's at. I have. I look for him now because of your instance. to wave, and I have gotten zero response. Not a tip of the hat, not a smile. It's just looking straight ahead as I roll by. That's where we're at in our relationship. What's funny is he probably has no memory of Jay's.

He doesn't even remember. He's giving some issues. He can see this. You never forget it. All right. So we got to get back to John one. I want to take a ride on the ladder. On the ladder.

Let's read the John 151. Because you said Zach had some interesting things that he wanted to talk about Jacob's Ladder. Well, let me, let me set it up because there were a couple of things I didn't get to say on the last podcast. Which some people may be confused, Al, on why we're talking about Jacob's Ladder in John Chapter 1. Exactly. Well, we ended the podcast last time, and I had to add in the, you, Al, you tried to shut me down at the end. Like, we're out of time, but I added a little 30 seconds on the end. No, it was three and a half minutes.

Yeah, that you said two seconds. We remember it well. Yeah. Give me two seconds, three minutes later. It was about like you losing 1.5 pounds. It was in the margin of error. Largues of error. So we were talking about the calling of the disciples.

We're in John 1 right at the end of the chapter. And Jesus runs up on one of these guys who is Nathaniel. And what's interesting is Nathaniel, we didn't get into this, but I'm going to set it up before we get to Jagu's ladder. He apparently had been sitting under a tree, which I did a little bit of a dive on this, Jason. You know, they had a picture that showed these fig trees and what they look like, you know, over in Israel.

And so they're big, bushy trees. And so a lot of times these guys would sit. We neither just pray and contemplate or sometimes if they were well enough alone, they would actually have a scroll, you know, to be able to read different parts of the Old Testament with the Torah. And so apparently this is the kind of guy Nathaniel is. I think it's not even apparent. Because when I went to Israel, I looked at the trees and I thought,

when Nathaniel was under a tree about like this. About like that. And so Jesus recognizes it and tells him that. And it's like to me, and we didn't get into this, but it's almost humorous to me because Nathaniel has already made a slur comment towards where Jesus is from. You know, what good thing come out of Nazareth? And by the way, he's from Cana, which is about four miles away, they think, from Nazareth.

And so this is kind of the better part of town he's from, to use our illustrations. And we find out he's from Cana in like chapter 20. Yeah. And that's also, by the way, where this next miracle comes in, or the first miracle in John 2, and the second one in John 4, which is kind of ironic. happen to can it also I'd add that the the tree the the fig tree is also symbolic of if you look at the old testament there's like I got three different verses here but it's it's a it's a symbolic or like a common

symbol for Israel he this is Jose 9-11 when I when I found Israel it was like finding grapes in the desert when I saw your ancestors it was like seeing the early fruit on the fig tree yeah or a another one in Micah 4-4, everyone will sit under their own vine and under their own fig tree. So there's all these texts in the Old Testament. So you've got to think about this conversation is about Israel. And this is a common symbol for Israel. That's a good point.

And that's why it's connected to this Jacob's ladder. Yeah. I think that's a... Which is why Jesus said, look, an Israelite who... Well, he said, the NIV reads, here is a true Israelite in whom there's nothing false. And I thought it was interesting because a way you could phrase this and some of the other virgins say this is like here's a guy who tells it like it is. And so he had already been like disparaging. And if Jesus goes back pre-dispairage when he saw him under the tree, he's kind of letting him know.

And I know that you've been talking about me, which I thought was kind of funny. Yeah, his identification here is that this guy is, he has a faithful Israelites. So he's building out this picture of what that looks like. And then he says in verse 48, and I'm leading us up to where we're going today, how do you know me? Nathaniel asked, well, I saw you while you're still under the fig tree before we fell up colleges. He said, I've known you for a long time, son.

Then Nathaniel all of a sudden goes from what good thing can come from Nazareth to rabbi, you are the son of God, you're the king of Israel. I mean, you talk about a hairpin turnaround. This is like, what good thing could come from Nazareth to you are the king. Yeah, because I think scholars believe that he had this moment under this tree, epiphany, whatever. And now Jesus is bringing this up. He's like, well, how do you know it? And then what a lot of scholars say, I tend to agree, is then when Jesus said, you believe, because I told you, I saw you under the fig tree, you shall see greater things than that.

I tell you the truth, you shall see heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending and descending. own the son of man. So a lot of scholars are saying, not only did he see him under the tree, he knew what he was thinking about, which is the story of Jacob's ladder, which he's now saying, in a crude translation,

I am that ladder. Yeah, exactly. Between heaven and earth. That's why I read that last podcast in Genesis 28, because Jacob had this vision and you remember the story I mean he was running from his brother he was he had been deceitful

and all then now his brother's trying to kill him because he stole his birthright and he and by the way this this vision he had is actually four chapters I'm not sure about the timing because I hadn't read it but recently but the it's before he sort of has his moment in Genesis 32 where he wrestles with you know this person

or angel or whatever it was he razzled with, and then kind of comes to this new place of going from a deceiver to, you know, Israel. God even changed his name. If you think about the ladder or the stairway, it's what that is, it is the connection point between heaven and earth. And so they're going up and down on this ladder or staircase. That is what connects heaven, earth. It's symbolic, by the way, of the temple as well, which is a place where heaven and earth meet.

So you've got to think. The whole point here is, what is the connection point between heaven and earth? And in Jacob's ladder, it was a ladder. And to your point, Jesus then becomes a ladder. So where the angels are climbing on a physical ladder between heaven and earth, Jesus becomes the thing that we move upon in between heaven. He connects heaven and earth itself. I think that's a very provocative thought, but it seems to flow in line with everything that Jesus is about to do

in his unfolding ministry. True. Where the rabbit hole I wanted to go down. And I've heard lessons on this, and I do not claim to know everything about what I'm fixed to introduce. Remember this was a sleep-deprived, party-induced study. It was that study. I'm just set in the context.

But these things I have looked into before, and I've heard various pre-executive. preach on these subjects, and I've listened to a lot of them. Even our buddy, who is Mackie. I remember hearing a lesson he did about this one time. And so what I was going to say is that when you think about all the times that something like this happened with Jacob's ladder, where you have Jacob either asleep or you think about Revelation 1

when John the Revelator is fixing to have this revelation. Well, remember he says he was in the spirit and then he sees something kind of crazy. I mean, I'll just read it. And then I just wanted to get y'all's thoughts on this, and I'll tell you what I think. But let's just kind of look at this. When he says in verse, I say, where does it say he was in the, he was on an island. That's in verse 9.

On the island of Patmos, was the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus. On the Lord's Day, I was in the spirit. Yep. And so he has this kind of vision. Well, the vision gets kind of crazy in verse 13 because he saw among these lampsstands someone like a son of man. Well, the reason I'm bringing this up is because we just read that in John 1 where he said Jacob's Ladder, who's going to be part of this ladder with angels coming up and down from that?

It says the son of man. Yeah. And he told Nathan that you're going to see that. Well, then we went to Jacob's Ladder and when did he see this vision? Well, when he was asleep. Well, now he, this, John's in the spirit. We're at the end of the book. There's got to be a connection here.

Yeah. And so look what he sees. He sees son of man dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow. His eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace. and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. And he goes on to say,

he had a sharp double-edged sword coming out of his mouth. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. And then he placed his right hand on me and said, don't be afraid. You know, I'm the first I am. Here we go, that we talked about that last time.

I am the first and life. I am the living one. I was dead, and behold, I am alive forever and ever. That was three I ams in the verse. And I hold the keys of death and Hades. Now, here's what's interesting. I want to make another point. When he gets to chapter two in verse, where's that at?

Verse seven, look what he says here. He who has an ear let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches, to him who overcomes. Now watch this little phrase. I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. You say, why are you bringing this up? Well, there's another, this word,

paradise is not used very many times in the Bible. So what's the most famous time it's used? Today you'll be with me in paradise. That's it. I've heard these lessons. I've looked at the Greek words. So when you say, well, what does that word mean? So the Greek word is like Paradiso, which is basically what we did was take a Greek word using English letters to get Paradise.

When you say, what is Paradiso in Hebrew? Well, it means, would you believe this? Garden. So some of the lessons I've heard is when he says, today you will be with me at Paradise. Well, that he's, and one of the lessons I heard, I think it was Mackey who gave this. He's like, well, he said that is a future occurrence because they're fixed to die. Today you will be with me in Paradise once we're dead. So he asked a question, which I thought was a real interesting question.

He said, when is Paradise? And he went through that same little definition of the word. And he's like, why does he bring up garden? Well, we know to any Jew, when you bring up the word garden, where do you immediately go? Garden of Eden. Well, you go to the Garden of Eden, which is what he did. So he's like, well, so is it fixing to happen? Or did it already happen in the past?

So he put that up there. If he's talking about the guard. He didn't say fixing. He probably said, is it about to happen? Fixing that. I'm paraphrasing. That's all one word. Paraphrasing enough.

But the key phrase that he brought out, which I'm going to bring out, is just like here in Revelation, he, when John had his vision, he has this view of Jesus. Well, look, this is not weird in Scripture. If you turn to Ezekiel 8, you see a similar occurrence. And I'd like to read that the first three verses. And I want to point out something that when Jesus said today, there's a little phrase before he says, paradise. He says, you'll be with me. And all of a sudden, when you tie this end to John seeing this image of who is the image that John saw in Revelation 1?

Son of man. Son of man. Who was that? Jesus. The resurrected Jesus. And even, I'm not even bringing up the story of Daniel on the fiery furnishing. You remember there was three guys in the fire. And then who showed up?

The son. Well, there was one like the son of man named fire. I'm not even bringing that one up, but I just thought I mentioned it. So Ezekiel 8, you read this. I think this is fascinating. Ezekiel 8, and you have, okay, and I think this is Ezekiel 8. In the sixth month, this is verse 1 on the fifth day. While I was sitting in my house.

Now we have John was on the island of Pappmos, and now you got a guy in, where is this at, Mesopotamia? No, that was Jacob and Jacob's ladder. He was just out in a field. Well, now we got a guy in a house. And by the way, this was written probably 6 to 700 years before John saw his deal. Yeah, he was sitting before the hand, let's see, I was sitting in my house and the elders of Judah were sitting before me.

the hand of the sovereign Lord came upon me there. So that's kind of like that in the spirit. Yeah, and I looked and I saw a figure like that of a man. Well, that sounds interesting. Where's this going? From what appeared to be his waist down, he was like fire. Well, that seems to be something that's commonly happened in here. And from there up, his appearance was as bright as glowing metal.

he stretched out what looked like a hand and took me by the hair of my head. That sounds painful. The spirit lifted me up. Now, watch this phrase. Between, some versions say land and sky, between earth and heaven. And in visions of God, he took me to Jerusalem. Now, where exactly is that between earth and heaven? Hmm.

Yeah. Now, I want to read one other thing before I give you the next piece to this, puzzle because I didn't read the Genesis 28 because I read it last time but I do want to zero in on one theme I think I read it last podcast but when Jacob's on the ladder or having the vision about the letter it says in verse 13 there above it stood the Lord and I said I am the Lord the God of your father I will give you so it's we're back to this I am which is famous for Jesus. Remember we have the seven I-I-Ms, and I added an eighth?

Well, guess where the only other place, the New Testament, uses that word paradise. I've already read you the one in Revelation 2. Then there's the one in Luke, where he said today you'll be in paradise. Well, there's one other. It's only three times. It's in 2nd Corinthians. I'm doing pretty good just from memory, remembering all this. 2 Corinthians 12 now I want to read this verse one I must go on boasting verse one although this is

paul talking there's nothing to be gained I will go on to visions and revelations from the lord now watch what he says and most scholars believe he's actually talking about himself because of what comes up later in the paragraph I think it's he said I know a man in Christ, who 14 years ago was called up to the third heaven, whether it was in the body or out of the body, I do not know. God knows. And I know that this man, whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know, but God knows. Meaning that was he actually teleported there or was he just... Well, we're back to this in the spirit and dream or now, because, I mean, you kind of think in this case, he was just praying. Yeah. And this happened. Yeah. But then when you notice the key verse in verse four, here's our word again, was called up to paradise, which he seems to use heaven and paradise synonymously here.

Yeah, yeah. Now, because he said third heaven. And then he actually said he heard inexpressible things that man is not permitted to tell. And I'll boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself. except about my week. This is a clever way. Which is him saying, I could boast about that, but since that was me and the third person,

I'm not going to boast about it. Clever. So I want to bring this up. So you say, well, how do you tie this together? Well, isn't it interesting that the word being used garden, because I want to go back to that. In Revelation 2, when he used the word paradise, he throws in that tree of life.

Well, isn't it ironic that in the last chapter, which when Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise and you go back and realize he used the word for garden, Hebrew word, which if we are agreeing, that could be what happened in Genesis 1 and 2. When you get to Revelation 21, and he now has this vision of, what would you call this, future, future.

Remember the question, when is paradise? So he said, well, it could have been in the past, because it could have been in the garden. It could have been in the future because they were fixed to die. But here, watch what happens. When he saw John, who had already mentioned this in chapter 1 and 2,

a reference to this son of man having this vision, when I saw a new heaven or new earth for the first heaven and the first earth that passed away, and there was no longer any sea, I saw the holy city, the New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride, beautifully dressed for her husband,

and I heard a loud voice from the throne. Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. To Zach's point, Jesus seems to be implying that, remember that ladder, that Jacob's ladder, that you had the vision, and I'm that ladder,

I'm the heaven and earth coming together through me. I'm the place where God and humans meet. Well, now, all of a sudden, we go to the future of future. This seems to be what the future holds for people who are in door. well by the Spirit of Christ. Heaven and earth comes together.

It's however you want to, I have trouble describing this. Because however you want to describe that. It's a new heaven and new earth. We have new bodies. We're indestructible now. We live. All right. We can eat fish.

Yeah. They will be as people. God would be himself. But notice what he does when you get to chapter 21 and verse 22. It says, I didn't see a temple in the city because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb or its temple. The city does not need the sun and the moon to shine on it for the glory of the God. Glory of God gives it light.

The Lamb is the lamp. Okay. The nations walk by the light. But when he gets to 22, look, what does he bring up? The tree of life and the garden. Then the angels showed me the river of the water of life as crystal, clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God. and of the lamb, down the middle of the great street of the city,

on each side of the river stood the tree of life. That's why I read that revelation, too. And you say, well, what was the significance of that? Well, you remember where this all went wrong with Adam and Eve? There was a tree, and there was some fruit on it. And they wanted the knowledge of good and evil, and that didn't go well. But now here's Jesus, hung on a tree, which even Paul referenced him as the first fruits,

you know, from the dead many times, you know, fruit on a tree, a tree of life. Remember the tree of life was in the garden? It was also there. And it was keeping on the alive. And now Jesus on the tree of life enabled us by, you know, through forgiveness, atonement, triumphing over the evil powers, all that. Triumping over death.

Then his resurrection, triumping. over death. It's the fruit of the tree of life, which we are. So then it says, and on each side of the rivers to the tree of life, look at this, bearing 12 crops of fruit. We're back to a garden.

And the leaves of the trees are for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city and his servants will serve him. So, what is that next?

say. There will be no more night. Oh, they will see his face and his name will be on their foreheads. There'll be no more night. So, because he's the light. Right. Going back to John 1.

So that was kind of the rendition. So his question was, when, was it the past? Was it in the imminent future or was it the future of futures here? And he put, yes. which I thought was hilarious. I wasn't ready for that.

And then he put where, and then he went through all these locations. And he put, like, was it on the island? Was it in the field? Did Jagu's letter? Was it at the house? Was it in Jerusalem? Yeah. Was it when Paul was in this room, praying?

And he went, exactly. And his point was, which I thought was a very good point. And like I said, I'm not defraying. Defending it, I'm just putting it out here for your views. His point was that he believes that there is a realm where God exists and Jesus is when it says it's the right hand of God. That our five senses can't, whatever you want to use that word. I'm having trouble with the English language. We can't.

They can't access it. We can't access, but it's not far. Yeah. a spirit of consciousness. Now, his point was that we've lived in this world and it's been shaped by all the earthly kingdoms and everything we see and that we can't see it. But all these people in moments of vulnerability

and deep prayer and, you know, this special relationship with God or God using these people in special instances to proclaim him, have this encounter and this vision and this. He's like, but the point is, it's not as far as you think this round. And I really thought it was beautiful, you know. He kind of made an analogy of like being on a mountaintop because he went to the Transfiguration.

He's like, what was that all about? Well, here we back to the fire. You have these two guys who had controversial deaths, one, they couldn't find Moses' body. The other, Elijah just went up. So now you see them in their form of being in contact with the eternal sun. And that's the phrase he used.

The sun is now eternal. And it's all around us in this. We have his spirit. He's fighting on our behalf, the principalities and, you know, about the struggle all in Ephesians and all that. So that was that. And I thought, man, you want to talk about Jacob's Ladder?

I mean, I think they did a movie about it, Hollywood, which I never saw it because it was rated R. You watch rated R movies. You probably saw it. You ever see that? I didn't see that movie, but I do. I have watched a few rated-at-arm movies. But you've never done that.

I do remember watching Halloween at your house when I was about six years old. Well, I was raised in an environment of my parents were young Christians, and they didn't look at the letters on movies. So, yeah. That was our Christmas surprise every year was a rated-old. I mean. One thing, I heard, in here, he right speak on this recently and he talked about this idea of paradise he said when jesus

told the thief on the cross today you'll be in the in paradise jokingly it was kind of funny he said well he wasn't he wasn't going to be there long though because you know came out the grave three days later but it was like the intermediate place and everybody kind of chuckled but where where is it where are your loved ones at who have died those who are in christ and what's i thought about my mom you know i was thinking about all that but um yeah he The way he described it, similar to kind of how Dallas Willard talks about heaven being like around us. It's like, it's not, he said there's a thin veil between heaven and earth.

And it's, it's, we just can't see it yet, but it's here. Like heaven's here. And the way I thought about it when he was talking about it, this is probably a horrible analogy. I'm going to try it, though. It's like that show Stranger Things where there's this other realm called the upside down, which is kind of like an inverse of the actual real world that they live in. But it's like the dark side of this world.

It's like that, but the opposite. It's just a very, very thin veil. And what's going to happen at the consummation of the kingdom is all of that's going to be just torn. It's going to be disclosed, full disclosure. And Jesus, the way I understand this text is that Jesus is a prototype, not prototype. He is the connection between those two worlds. He is now the latter. First fruits, you know, I mean, yeah.

And prototype's not a bad way. I want to read one verse because we're almost out of time, but very intriguing what Jesus brought up. I like this sleep, deprived, induced thought. Maybe you were in the spirit last night. I might have been. So here's the verse I thought of when. you were doing this, because I had just preached on this. Man, it's so powerful into what you

just talked about. This is Ephesians 310. His intent, to my God's, was that now, which there's a time in place, through the church. So this revealing at the first century of Jesus, the left, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, according to is eternal purpose, which you accomplish in Jesus Christ, our Lord. Then he goes on the top more. And I just, it hit me on that phrase, the idea about that veil, not just from our side of the equation, but also from the other side of the equation. And that we have a role in testifying and that they want to look at us, yes. And that's that that's powerful. And that word manifold, I think it's better translated I've heard as like colorful expression. Yeah. It's like,

It's a picture of something very beautiful and colorful. Which is what I read. And look, whether you agree with what I really don't have a stance on all the details of that, I just read all those verses where those things happen. What I like about it and what I do have a stance on is that it makes you realize God is not far. Think of the sermon, Paul preached in Acts 17, like we think he's a million miles away. but it's a focus on Jesus and all those pastors,

there was an encounter with one who looked like the son of man and we all know who that is. And when you think about what I didn't read in Revelation, which I think is very powerful, but that verse that says he was, he is, and is to come.

Where is that in Revelation? I think that's... That's right after Alpha and Omega, I think. Yeah, and when you think about even the verse that's says, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And so when he says, hey, today, you'll be with me, that's enough for me. Yeah.

You know, in paradise, oh, what exactly does that mean? But I know if you're with Jesus, and I know when you have his spirit, he says he'll be with you forever. All right. We're out of time. Man, good stuff. We'll pick it up here next time. Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast.

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