Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1047 | Jase Opens up About a Major Hurt in His Marriage & the Biggest Lie Satan Tells Couples

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

Jase, Al, and Lisa open up about the struggles they’ve faced in marriage, from following bad advice to rocky relationships with each other’s families. Jase confesses that he advised his son to schedule his wedding according to the LSU Tigers football schedule, and Phil has been known to dispense dubious marriage tips. Plus, Lisa reveals what she thinks is the single biggest lie that Satan sneaks into married couples’ lives. In this episode: Revelation 21, verses 1-5, 22-23; Ephesians 3, verse 2; Ephesians 4, verse 3 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to the unashamed podcast. In the five minutes of interim between the last podcast and this one, we have traded crazy for beauty because we had Si, who is not beautiful, but he is a little bit crazy and fun for Lisa. I'm going to push back there. Uh-oh.

Yeah. Let me hear this. I have, I should have said this while I was here. So I've traveled with, obviously, all my family members all over the world. What I've found fascinating, this is, how many wonders of the world? Seven. There's seven. Well, here's number eight.

Seven ancient ones. No, we already had eight. Tracer was number eight. Yeah. That is. That is. We have jokingly said. that Tracea Lee...

Sa's daughter. Who had worked as a model among other things. I mean, she's like six foot tall, blonde hair. Beautiful. Beautiful. Very intelligent.

And so you look at Sae, you look at Tracea, and you say, there's the eighth wonder of the world. Maybe it makes up. Let me give you the ninth wonder of the world. Is that, I mean,

Sa's married happily, then married for what? Almost 50 years now. Almost 50 years. I am shocked at the amount of women who love Sai. Yeah. Like, uncomfortably, when I'm in public with him, I have seen women come up and kiss Sigh on the cheek.

And he'll bring up his wife, but there's something about Sai that they don't feel awkward, creepy, or threatened. They're just, they love Sigh. Well, women. But it's not his beauty. It has to be beauty. It has to be beauty.

It's that inner beauty that he has. And he's funny. Yeah. And he's sweet. And he's very kind. Lisa still lives at my jokes. But would you agree with that? I agree.

I have seen hundreds of women. Good looking women. I mean, everyone is made by God. I don't want to. But I'm just saying it's shocking. And I'm like, really? because it's like almost uncomfortable. And then size like, come here, darling.

Oh, he's just like, and his wife is like, well, because I brought that up to her one time. She actually, yeah. She's like, she's like, he's irresistible. Yeah, that's what she says. I can't blame those poor women. So it is kind of fascinating. So this is interesting, Jason. I'm so glad you brought this up.

So Lisa and I just did an appearance in Bethany, Missouri. which is about an hour and a half north of Kansas City, which just for future reference, babe, when we're signing events, to go north of Kansas City in February is probably something we need to really just pray about next time. And to go to Kansas City area after the Super Bowl loss. And I even said,

I was like, I was more worried if they had won because there had been a parade, we'd have got into all that. So, but anyway, we got there. It was 12 degrees. Was it a riot going on? No riot.

Everybody was disappointed and bummed. But they won so many. They didn't, it wasn't even that bad. But we got there as 12 in the Kansas City. Then we're going an hour and a half north. So that was even colder. And when we left, it was 12. We're not really built for 12 with a northwest wind, 20 miles an hour.

It was rough. So we did this event. There were two things that happened that I want to share. And one of them is funny that you said this about Sai. So there was a very nice lady came up. We were doing like a little VIP, people that paid a little extra to the event, which was offered to raise funds for a pregnancy center, which we love. It was a Valentine's Day marriage event. But everything they made, they had a silent auction and a live auction.

They were donating to this PRC, this pregnancy resource center that was there. So it was awesome. This lady came up, which she's telling me, she and her husband, that they had seen Willie. And they showed me a picture of Willie. And I was like, oh, I'm sorry, you know, that he's the. first when you met, you know, just kind of making fun. I said the ugly brother. Yeah, and she said the ugly brother.

And so she's, so we're talking about that. And they're telling me how much they love this life surge, which is what Willie's doing now. And there's a bunch of business people. It's kind of a Christian business thing Willie's into now. But I know some of the other people. And two of them are the Benham brothers, which I love. They're from North Carolina. And they've been on the podcast before.

They're twin. I mean, exact replica twins. I only really know them apart by their wives. That's the only way I can tell. them apart. Well, they always have this running joke with me. They'll say the ugly brother, talking about their brother. Where they look exactly at light.

So it's kind of a running guy. So I asked this woman, I said, well, which one was the ugliest brother? Well, I was talking about the benoms because we were talking about the benoms. And she said, I guess Uncle Si. And I started laughing. And I was like, no, I meant between the benoms. And she said, oh, oh, okay. And I was like, but you think.

Uncle Sy's the ugliest. And she said, oh, please don't tell him that. I said, I'm going to say it on the podcast. I meant to say it when I was here, but now he's gone so good. We didn't hurt his feelings. But he would have gotten a big laugh at him. He would have. So she was like mortified.

So now I'm telling the story. I know she's listening. So that's the story. The second thing, Jay's. So we did the live auction after we spoke. And it was great. I mean, a lot of people, a lot of great response to what we did. So they did this live auction afterwards.

And so I had a duck call. that I forgot to pack in my suitcase. And this is the Jace Pro series. And it's Tiger Wood. And I just thought about that, Jace, but did you, did y'all name this Tiger Wood before Tiger Woods became famous? No, Tiger Woods was named after Tiger Woods.

Tiger Woods been here. I was wondering. Who came first. Okay, Tiger Wood came before Tiger Woods. Yeah. Okay, good. So that's this duck call. And so we had a picture of it.

And so they auctioned it off. Well, they raised $15,000 for this pregnancy center, which was awesome. And this was the largest bid-owned item. And they had assigned cheese jersey from the running back, all these things. This duck call just a- Maybe they thought it was Tiger Woods. Maybe they did. This duck call, I'm holding in my hand that Leroy, bid on and won, was $2,900.

Oh, my goodness. Is what he did. So about halfway through the bidding, It was this Leroy and some other person that kept up in each other. And I said, well, I'm going to get Dad and Jace to sign it. So I got Dad to sign it yesterday. So I want you to sign it and put your little gospel. Well, I had already signed it.

I know. It's already on there. I want you to do it jace and the gospel symbols. Engraved. Yeah. Did Phil blow it? No. No.

No. I mean, for $2,900, I was just going to check it and make sure. There's no gold in it. No gold. But I'm going to, there's a couple little things you can do just to give it a call upgrade. You can get it, well, to make it a little more, what happens is it goes through the process. They're tuned, but they sit there. Yeah.

And so you return it to its original form, and once you do that, it never goes away. So I hope you're watching, Leroy. I know somebody will tell you that that's happened, but Jace just tunes your calls. For $2,900. $2,900. And he donated it to the pregnancy center, but this is what he's getting. And so thank you for that. And you guys were awesome there.

Abby and Tracy. Casey. Yeah, I want to say Tracy. Casey and all the crew that were there. You treated us great. It was very cold, but it was worth it because the people were warm, wouldn't you say, babe? Yeah, I think so. Do you remember Abby's mom's name?

Lisa. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I said I wouldn't forget. I put the little gospel diagram. Perfect. And I put Matthew 1926, which is not possible with man, but with God, all things are possible. So we're going to get that in the mail.

And we do like to tell you when we're going places. Lisa are going to be going up to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania in a couple of weeks. We're an event in Carlisle. So look on our website, I'm Lisa Robertson.com, about that if you want to check us out. Jace, you've got any of you can mention? I do, but I think they're already sold out, so I'll see you when I see you. But that was fun. You know, it's funny, you were in Kansas City, and I'm fixed to go to Philadelphia.

Oh, really? My crowd will be a little more excited. Oh, yeah. Are you going to say something about the game? Well, I guess. You'll have to. I wait to the last minute to. I didn't even bring it up in my crowd.

I did. Someone heard me say on the podcast. podcast that I wound up pulling for Philly during the Zubbo so I wouldn't have to go through a parade in Kansas City. I guess I said that. What's funny is these things are playing way in advance. Right, right. Who knew? So maybe there was something cosmic going on.

That is interesting. So I'm glad I got to go where they won. But you know what was crazy is when they won, they actually just started tearing up stuff and going crazy. So, you know, be careful what you wish for. talked about that. That's so insane how the reaction is almost just like it's victory, but it's like let's destroy things in victory. I don't know.

Well, I think, you know, we'd think the losers would be tearing up. But we just did the Jesus turning the water into wine. And even though that symbolizes, you know, our marriage to Christ, new beginnings, new creations, if you drink too much wine at a game, you start tearing stuff up. That's a good point. So there you go. So that's a great transition, Jay's, because maybe in the last podcast with Sa, we talked about John 2, which was the wedding in Cana, where he turns water into wine. And so we didn't talk a lot about weddings because this was just the setting, although Jesus, that Jace did say Jesus, was probably doing this in the sense that is the bride and bridegroom.

I mean, it wasn't an accident that he chose it. Yeah, I mean, the more I read the Bible, the less I believe in. coincidences, random encounters, and accidents and anything in the Bible. It seems to be linked together. So I wanted to talk a little bit about weddings in the sense, because the first thing I thought of, we were talking with somebody recently, and they were asking me about weddings I've done, and which is the most difficult, which was the most, you know, all these different things. And I've done so many that I forget a lot of them.

But one I will never forget was when I was asking. asked to do Johanna Godwin's wedding because John Godwin's daughter, John and Paula. So they had asked me first they wanted to do what I thought was just a kind of like a, what you call it, a pre-wedding thing. I met him over at Tech in the room that they met in. They used to pass notes to each other in class. And so they wanted to do like their vows in this room. Well, I thought this was just, I knew their wedding was until my mom. November, but it turns out they had their marriage license. I married them with just a few of their family there in a classroom at Louisiana Tech University. They got permission to go in there

at night. And I married him. I did the vows in that room. So they were actually a husband and wife. What they had planned this other thing is kind of like a for family and friends. But they were already married. So they tell me, I said, no, so when's the wedding? And they're like, November 9th, which I remember to me because it was my birthday. No. Our anniversary, sorry. November 9th, which is our anniversary, but it was 2020. Now, Jason, I don't know if you remember, November 9th, 2020 was a big night.

It was the year LSU won the National Championship, and guess who they were playing November night that year? Alabama. Alabama. It was the Alabama game. In the championship season, at Alabama, I mean, the whole season was really, riding on this game. And you're doing a wedding. I'm doing a wedding with my best friend, John Gowen, they asked me, but like everybody at the wedding, I mean almost every, men and women, were watching the game as I'm standing with Johanna and Celio in front of me.

I'm looking out, everybody's looking down. The entire time I'm doing the wedding, it was the most forgotten way, except for Johanna and Celio, they loved it. But everybody else, they didn't even know I was doing a wedding. It's weird you bring this story up because one of the biggest arguments that I've ever had with my wife is when my oldest son was going to get married and they sent a text with the date. And I said, nope. And Missy snapped her head at me. She's like, you don't have anything going on.

I said, that's the LSU Alabama game. So it wasn't that. year obviously because they've been married longer and uh she was like this is your son you know how missy can be you know she started the speech well i'm already typing i was like that's the ls u Alabama game no one will come and my oldest son should know this i wasn't selfishly saying yeah you know i mean you were saying i'm back into the argument you know here what has it been eight years later, I was like, they're not going to come.

Or they're going to be distracted. Why would you want to do that? And so I put that down, and then there was no argument. They put another date, which I looked up the LSU schedule, and it was during the by week. And I thought, now we're talking. Which is called compromise. It makes perfect sense to us, because we're like,

think about the schedule. Yeah. In your case with Reed and Brighton, it was also, we filmed it on the show. So that really would have been. We filmed it. We filmed it. It was out in this pine grove somewhere. I remember where it was out.

Yeah, it was nice. Yeah, pecan. You know, I don't remember that kind of stuff, you know. Was that the first wedding you'd ever done was his? No. Oh, I've done. I've done a few. Which I'm terrible at it, and I'm retired.

So don't get any idea. But you think. I think you're retired. And then the last one I did was Austin and Lily, which they filmed that for my treasure hunt. So I just don't think I'm very good at that. I think you're spectacular at it. I've done many.

And in fact, you're right, Jay's as I kind of tried to retire when I left, like full-time ministry work, but I do them every year. It's usually people that I love, and I just can't say no, too. But you did a good job, Jace, with Austin and Lily's wedding. It was very personal. thought you did a great job. I appreciate it. I don't like the pressure of those kind of events.

I will say that in terms of being in front of a crowd, if you're just speaking, it's much less pressure than a wedding because you feel like you could mess it up if you would. Look, there's no way, you're kind of the umpire. Yeah. If you're noticed, there's a problem. That's right. You did it wrong. And so nobody cares.

Yeah. The only thing that can happen is you screw the. this whole thing up and they talk about it for years. Well, it's like good old cousin Kim, our Tommy, our uncle Tommy's daughter, when I did her wedding. And this was early. And it turned out to be, she taught me a great lesson. She didn't, wasn't trying to teach me a lesson, but she did when I went over there.

And of course, I'm young, you know, and I just started doing weddings. And she said, you know how you tell your funny stories and like everybody laughs and they love it? And I was like, yeah. And she said, don't do that. Don't do that at my wedding. Just balls and strikes. That's what I'm saying. And you know what?

She was right. I learned from that because leave it to Kim to tell me that. So I said that at Hayden's wedding, her son, which we got a good laugh about it. But I was like, Kim, you taught me a lesson. It's not about me. It's about the couple. So even though Johanna and Celio, and I reminded Johanna this recently, had me do this on the LSU Alabama National Championship Year game,

it was still special. Yeah, it was. And I'm glad I did it. Well, the reason I don't mind bringing this. up and we've said it but I wanted to read it I think I've read this passage more than the last few podcasts ever but you know in Revelation 21 when he saw a new heaven and new earth for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away there was no longer any sea which was kind of symbolic to chaos and opposition and resistance to the kingdom of

God he said I saw this holy city the new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven and from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. So it's not like, we're not just saying, oh, he did his first sign at a wedding, and he shows his transformational power, which was obviously a picture of things can change for the better. There's the rejoicing and just being a part of God's family. I mean, I think there is something here. Verse four then says,

well, it says I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, now the dwelling of God is with men and he will live with them. They will be his people and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death, no more mourning, crying or pain for the old order of things has passed away. And he said, look, I am made. making everything new, verse 5, which goes, I think, into the John 2.

And then the next section that we're going to get into, he actually addresses in verse 22 of Revelation 21 when it says, I did not see a temple in the city because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. Yeah. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine up for the glory of God, which goes back to what we talked about last podcast, glory of God, gives it light and the lamb is its lamb. I mean, I just think it's a beautiful picture.

I love the way you tied those two in because I think that's why John told these two stories back to back from the wedding and the water into wine to then the temple, which is where we're going next. Which is kind of debatable because the other three gospels. They call them the synoptic gospel. Yeah, guys, they have that way later. So most people that I've read, they're like, well, it must have happened twice.

No. I mean, maybe it was a thing. I don't think so. I mean, maybe, but I think John just chose to tell the story here. That's my opinion. But it could be right or wrong. I want to mention this, because I've been going to tell the story for a while, and this is the time to tell it as we make the transition. Because I read this story in N2 Rights book, which, by the way, several of you asked me about some of the stuff we read.

he's one of the guys we do. This is the Paul book, but he's got one on John that I'm reading. Are you reading the John? Well, I've read it before. It's really, really good. And so in this book, Jay skips over the illustrations because he just goes for the movie. I do. That's a bad habit.

You know what's funny? I'm a preacher, so the illustrations I love. Well, I use illustrations, because I got to think about this, like, but I never listened to them. Yeah. when I'm Bible studying or listening to people. Like every time they start talking about the illustration, I immediately go, because I'm thinking I'll insert my own.

I don't ever use other people's illustrations unless, you know, it was just fantastic. Well, and to Jason's credit, he's never had to preach week in and week out. That's true. You would have to use other people. I tend to only have one message. Right.

Which is different. I mean, they, y'all asked me to speak on Ephesians. Yeah, I'm excited. You got to wrap it up. Well, but it's a, it's a, I've already given that Willie asked me to speak somewhere on Ephesians because they were doing, this was like last year. Yeah. So I was like, all right. Yeah, I have that.

I mean, that's because I'm actually going to wrap the book. And that's on Mother's Day, by the way, if you want to come to a Westman up. All right. So look. So here's the story tells. So the setting was, I was preaching out of. Ephesians 3, those first 13 verses that set up before he gives that prayer, you know, I kneel to the Father.

And so he does this kind of what I would call Jace's rabbit hole because he starts off going to make a point. Then he kind of puts a rabbit hole moment in Ephesians 2, I mean, 3 verse 2 all the way down to the end of that section. And in there, he's talking about his unique role. in revealing the mystery of the gospel, and especially to the Gentiles. That's the context.

Yeah, he says in verse 4.3, in reading this, you'll be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ. Yeah, and it's very personal for Paul. I mean, he's like, you know, and then I went back and read what happened to Paul on the road to Damascus and exactly what Jesus said he was going to do his role.

So, N.T. Wright, in telling this about this text, tells this story, which I found fascinating. The reason I'm bringing up now is because Sa made a big deal on the last podcast about the timing of this miracle, the time, Jesus said my time has not fully come. But we knew that his time is coming, which he's going to say later.

And so he tells a story about this woman in Africa named Naomi, and she had started a business making dresses. And the reason of the story, the illustration stuck out to me, is because Lisa and I have been to Africa, Liberia, and we actually went to a school that was started by one of our friends that taught women how to sew

so that they could make dresses and other things, right? Remember, it was like... And we bought sewing machines for them. Yeah, it was like 50 graduates. So, I mean, it was so personal to me because I've been to Africa where this was actually happening. So he tells us a story. Naomi, who has this vision, she wants to make dresses.

So she gets a couple of her friends to help her with this, and also a young man. And the young man, his role was to go into town buy supplies and then also to sell their dresses back in town. So that was his role. So you got the makers, then you got the guy that's going and selling and bringing supplies. Well, the business grows. It does great. She has to hire two more women, so now we've got four women plus this guy.

And finally one day, one of the women that she had hired says, you know, this is going so well, we should make other things. You know, tablecloths and covers and curtains. And I mean, we could really expand this business. And the woman, Naomi, just stops. And she goes over and there's a desk that she always kept locked. And she opens it up. She pulls out a letter. and the letter, there's a date written on there.

It's the day she started the company. And she hands the letter to the woman who just said this. I said, I want you to read that out loud. So she opens up the letter and she reads this plan for an expansion of the business into all the new things she wanted to do and all this. And she said, from the beginning, I've had this idea about where we will go. She said, but I didn't want to bring it up early because you would have thought she's just daydreaming and we're never going to get there because we've got to get this work done

been overwhelming we would have been overwhelming and so she said but now we're ready to do it and then nt right makes the point that from god's perspective this is what he did with his plan he had it in place it was functional it was happening it was leading towards something but then all of a sudden came the time to pull out the envelope and say but here's what it's really about is so much bigger And he said, imagine Paul being the young man in the story that realized that now his role is about to change dramatically and what was going to happen in the spreading of this secret that she kept the whole time. And I just thought it was a beautiful picture. And I guess because I've experienced it, it exactly what happens when the time was revealed in the first century. I mean, Jesus coming was the change agent for all eternity.

And then the people that afterwards, the disciples, including Paul, who was, he said, one abnormally boring because he came so late in the game, would be then to get it to the Gentiles. It was just a fascinating story that I thought was in there. Yeah, I think it's crazy when you go back to the beginning and try to make sense of it all. Because I was, I don't know where I read this other day, but I read something I thought, huh? He's like, you know, the guy was preaching and he was saying, we've always taught in our churches that, well, the world was made perfect, and then we screwed up. And he was kind of being sarcastic.

And he was like, well, now God's like, well, I made it. mistake, you know, how am I going to fix this? But I was kind of playing along and I was like, yeah, I've thought this before. And he said something that I'd never thought about. He's like, just because God made it good when he said, this is good, this is good, this is good. Oh, humans, very good. He's like, it wasn't complete though. He had in mind, it wasn't like God was surprised.

guy, you know, we tend to dumb down God to our level, and he's like, it wasn't complete or perfect. It was, there was a process he knew all along. You should get that especially from John here, because he's going back to the beginning, you know, where it would be more complete. It would be what God had in mind from the beginning, because if it's an eternal being, he's not waiting around. I mean, he's using all this time speech for us.

because we are mortal. Yeah. But it was a subtle thought, but I thought, well, that makes more sense. Yeah. That, okay, other beings, because you know you have the evil one there

or an evil presence, but then, so you have man's rebellion, but then in Genesis 6, it kind of gets crazy because then there's other celestial beings involved who are not imaging God.

Yeah. And then Genesis 11, we have this kind of rebellion of human beings, not wanting to do what God wants them to do. And so then all the nations are formed with all the languages. And just those three rebellions, if you kind of put them in order, kind of the celestial beings, human celestial beings, and then the nations, which all those nations,

started bowing down to other gods, which comes back to the Genesis 6, these other celestial beings. And then when you look to see what happened when Jesus gets here, and when he made that statement in Matthew 28, all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me, therefore go make disciples of all nations. Whoever is, and then the mark says,

whoever believes is baptized, and be said, whatever. But it kind of hit me in that moment when I was listening to it. I was like, this was the plan all along. but God, you know, in creating us with decisions and choices and just kind of lets it play out. Yeah. You know? And I just think it was more powerful and planned than we kind of think about. But it's just hard for us to see it as just inserted in the year 2025.

Well, in that transition, we were talking before we came. came on to record, and we were, I don't remember the exact context, but we were talking about marriage and how the idea is that sometimes we have to, we get at a point where it loses its luster, but we have to hang in there. We have to continue to go that next step, and you were mentioned that, and I think it's interesting that he's going to make this transition out of a wedding into the temple. Because his essence, that's what happened. We, Jace read in Exodus 33 in the last podcast about the presence of God that came about even before they started the tabernacle worship.

And they did later. The presence of God was still there. We get the first temple built by Solomon. The presence of God is there. And then we get to Ezekiel 10. And Ezekiel says the glory of God has left the temple. It's over. Because the people don't love God anymore.

They built other, you've got a temple up in Damascus. You've got all these things that are happening. And so it lost the luster of this relationship. And by the honest thing about us, you know, we had a wedding and we committed our lives to each other. But somewhere in those first few years, we lost the idea of that. And if you wanted to put it in this quotation, where we're talking about the glory of our marriage, it left us.

Right. And we almost lost everything until something was rebuilt in us 15 years beyond the original wedding. I mean, that's what happened to us, right? It happens to couples all the time. Well, I think because if you do not build your marriage to begin with on Christ, and he is not the corner side, he is not right in the center of your marriage, and he wasn't.

He might have been for you, but he wasn't for me. And I think unless you have that, then you are going to lose the luster, you know. And even, I think even over time that luster may dull a little bit because of, you know, things that happen, maybe you've got kids that are sick, maybe the spouse is sick, maybe financial problems. So all of that is going to play a part into dulling that. But I think unless it is totally built on Christ, that it's always going to, it's always going to, it's always going to lose it every time. You're going to lose that glory because you did not do it right the first time. And that is, I mean, that's one of the things that you and I are trying to tell a couple of our friends is that you can't build this on your feelings. You've got to build this on

Christ. He's got to be the reason why you do this. Don't sit out there in a marriage that's mediocre. That's not what Christ wants for you. Right. He wants your marriage to glorify him. And it cannot glorify him if all you're doing is fussing and fighting and calling the law to each other. I mean, you know, that kind of stuff. Yeah.

No, I think the best advice I ever got, because I can't, you know, we had my dad who has great a man and he's been early on in our life. Not always the best in the marriage advice. He did not give very good marriage advice. And, you know, I've told this before we laugh at it now. But he's like, he had his three points, you know. Does she believe it?

Actually, I'm just got to be honest. His number one thing was, can she cook? Can she cook? Does she carry her Bible? Because that used to bother me, I thought, shouldn't the Bible come before the spoons? Right, exactly. And will she pick your ducks? Well, my wife, she didn't have but one of those for the first 10 years I knew her.

She had the Bible. She couldn't bowl an egg. And she said, look, I will never pick your ducks. Because I, you know, I tried it. I was like, well, so much for that advice, terrible advice. But the best advice I did get was when I was reading that, you know, Ephesians 5, which most people go there, because you brought up that Ephesians,

talking about that mystery, which he later on, to your point, said that the mystery was that Jews and Gentiles, these nations could come back together, you know, under Christ. Well, then he does the same thing in marriage. He goes to the roles, but I always looked at it like, well, let's define that role.

But somebody told maybe it was Carl who did our premarital counseling. He's like, you both get to be like Jesus in the marriage, which actually Ephesians says. Exactly. Like Christ, love the church, you know. Right. So.

Like, Jesus, he says the same thing. Like, Jesus, he says the same thing. But I'm talking about Christ and the church, kind of to go back to what we're talking about. which is a beautiful picture, but it does put it in priority because I thought, because all the time I teach, we're in Christ, we're living in a world, in a world. And I'll say we're part of a kingdom among other kingdoms. But I never used that in marriage, but I thought of that while ago. I thought, but we actually are living in a marriage within a marriage in Christ.

That was his point there. And I think that's a really good way to look at it because, you know, his whole point that we agree on was getting to know Jesus better. And I think that's the best thing you can do in your marriage. Marriage is an action word. It's not just something you do. You know, you don't just get married and then that's the end of it. It's an action word. It's an everyday wake up and you decide that I'm going to serve my spouse today.

And whatever they need, I'm going to make sure they get it. You know? And however that I can help them fulfill their commitment to Christ, that's what I'm going to do today. And so it's an action, just like love. To me, another one. Love is an action. So you say you love somebody, okay, that's great. But what are you doing for that other person?

Yeah. Because it's an action. You've got to do something for somebody else. And so many times we just think we just get married and that's it. And every relationship builds on the other. Like you said, if you can start out with a relationship with you in Christ, then that flows into a relationship with a man and a woman. Right.

Then that flows into a relationship with children and grandchildren. But remember, there's a pecking order of those. It started with God, then to one another, then to kids, then to grandkids. If any of those get out of whack, you got a problem. So setting up what we're going to be talking about in this next context, there's a temple. And this is a place where at one time in Israel's history, there was this dynamic relationship of the presence of God with his people. And it was seen through a lot of different things that happened there, sacrifices and cleansings and incense being burned. And there was a lot of process that went on, to your point, even within marriage.

So it's that idea about God and his people. Well, now we've had several hundred years of people still going through the motions, but there's no presence there. There's no reality. So what Jesus walks into when we get into this context later in John 2 is now it's become about making money. All the animals that are being sacrificed is part of the thing. Everything's on the upcharge. Well, and their temple life was more.

everything was there. It's like their politics, their culture, their money, if they make money. I mean, it's like he had been there, but they just turned it into. And so imagine you're the son of God. And then again, they don't know that yet. I mean, you're just now coming out and saying this who I am, but you're walking. So you've been there the whole time. Well, in their defense, that would be hard because he's basically saying, I'm the

temple and you're a human from Nazareth. That'd be a hard sale. It's a hard sale, and I get it. But imagine you're him and you walk in and you look around and you see what this beautiful, holy idea was supposed to be and what it's become. So I can't help to think about marriage again. And what happens with people who get off track where they become two people who are partners in life because they have to be, we've made a decision we're going to do this.

And so, but it's all about money. And, well, I want to divorce him, but if I did, you know, I had to go through blah, blah, blah. And so we started just running it out like it's a financial contract. And, well, I got my kids and, you know, I mean, you know, I hate the idea of, you know, try. I mean, just think about all the reasons people think of and you're like, yeah, but it was created to be this beautiful relationship between you and God and you and this other person. You made this commitment, but it's so easy for that other stuff to get involved. and you just get so far removed from why you first started, you become this.

You become the setting we see in the context. Because it's based on a lie. Yeah. I mean, it's the evil one telling you that, well, you married the wrong person. You, you know, you can do better. If you get out of this one and get into another one, everything's going to, you know, it'll all work out. And it's all based on lies.

And if we ever, you know, I just said to one of my friends a while ago, you know, pray about this. And if in the end you think God is telling you, don't do this, then I'll back off. I'll question it because I'm going to question who is telling you this. Because you may think it's God. I think it's Satan.

Or it could be yourself. That's right. Or it could be, you know, your inner spirit. But I said, if that's who you think is telling you do this, then I'll back off. But, I mean, I think God wants your marriage to glorify him, and it cannot do it in the manner that it's working out right now. I mean, I think we all have to be committed to Christ first, of course. But in that commitment to Christ, then we have to be committed to our spouse.

number one, over everything, over our kids, over our grandkids, over finances, over health, everything. Everything has to be Christ first and then your partner, you know? And it's just, it's hard for me, and I guess, I don't know, maybe the Lord needs to take me back to 25 years ago. It's hard for me to allow people to just give up. I can't I can't I can't sit back and just let somebody say no I mean you know it's over we're just gonna we're just gonna throw in the towel I can't do it you know I'm glad you can't because that means you love people but remember the same transition that people are going through in their everyday lives or what we're seeing in the context of the first century Jesus has come here to introduce the concept as jace just said a minute ago that he now is going to be that too well right he's going to be the corner of the on that. But trust me, the transition got real rocky, you know, together. Well, and he makes all things new and he can repair.

And we've seen all these great transformations. But when you start comparing our marriages to our marriage with Jesus, I mean, he's way more graceful, forgiving. And even, and he doesn't even have expectations that are unreasonable in our marriages. I mean, there are clauses that he often. that are like you can you don't have to stay together. I mean, then use situations and different things. But even he himself, he still died for all that.

He's still welcome. It's like his grace is so much greater and larger. And I think you hit on something that's right. I think people, once they make that decision, which whether they say they did or not, they'll say, well, I just, you know, I just feel like I don't love them anymore. What it's, you know, that was, what you're saying is you've decided based on what's happened.

You're out. There's, but it's all. Because again, love is a decision. That's right. It's camouflaged around that. But it's always, it goes back when you brought up the evil one, I think that was a good analogy. Because what was the, in the first marriage, a husband and wife, it was the possibility that you're missing out. It was curiosity really was the temptation.

He said, don't do it, but you were curious. You know, it's all these little subtle things we never talk about. They saw that it was pleasing to the eye and it was good for food. Gaining wisdom. Gaining wisdom. I mean, it's just like you get all your little points. Well, that's never left people. And as Phil, one good advice he used to say was don't ever think the grass.

is greener on the other side of the yard because it's meaner. You know, you used to say that, which was kind of corny. It's not greener, it's meaner. Yeah, I thought that's a good idea to think, because that's what we tend to think. Oh, if I change locale, how many people move? I mean, they do it from churches. They have a falling out. They're like, well, I'm leaving.

Well, they go down, and seven years later, guess what? They're leaving again. You know why? Because you brought you to the party. Yeah. And you still got the same thing. You're the common denominator. What do you say about the green grass on the other side of the fence?

I say the green grass is greener over there because they got more crap over there. Yeah. You know? Because that's what the fertilizer. You know, that's what makes it green. I think that's a spectacular illustration. Yeah. It's more.

But that that little, that little game, I think, goes on. Because we see that with people that we've worked with. I've seen people. I try to talk them out of it. I'm like, look. Because you kind of hear the situation and like, look, marriage is tough. Things happen, circumstances. This is not, I mean, I say this all the time.

My wife and I could not have set a better foundation. And oh my goodness, it's just been a struggle. Because I think that's the way it is just the nature of living with another human being. But just think about those struggles, Jay. without Christ as the center of your marriage. And without you being his bridegroom. Well, I'm thankful for them now. I'm thankful for the struggles.

Because it, boy, it's talking about galvanized. And I want to say this. I mean, my wife has been a superstar with our situation with our parents. But I know part of her is doing that for me because it's a stressful situation. We've talked about, you know, our parents are just not doing.

good and it can be very difficult and stressful. But boy, she has cooked so many meals. She's at the top of the list. And I noticed something that she's, which has been kind of crazy, this is kind of personal, but because Phil has raked her over the cult calls the last 35 years on multiple occasions. Now, he didn't really mean anything by it because my dad, everybody. Well, he picks on people he loves. He does.

But he's hurt her feelings multiple times, you know. She's cried on the way from their house. Like, I cannot believe he said that to me. I was like, babe, you know. I try to take up for him, but that compounds the problem. Are you endorsing this behavior? No. But one thing she's been doing, which was first she told me she did this,

but it was kind of touching. She cooked the meal for them because now since she's, Phil likes her cooking so much, You can tell she's kind of moved up the batting order. Because as soon as she walks in, he gets up and is looking for a plate. Yeah. He's like, okay. That's what we got today. So she said, well, the first time I left, she said, I thought, you know, Phil's never told me he loves me.

And I'm fine with that because he's just not that way. She said, but I thought he's just not doing well. And so she came up there and kind of side-hugged him and said, I love you, Phil. And she said, I did that a couple times, and about the third time, he said, I love you too. And I was like, he did? It's a miracle. But so she said last night, she said, he does that every time now, whether I say it or not.

And I said, well, babe, you have worked a wonder in that man's life, you know. But it told me that it was in there, because he's married to Christ, it's just behind the rough exterior. And that's what we're talking to, because there's a lot of people out there listening who have been through different experiences. And we're talking about as believers, there's always a capacity to make changes and to move forward and to get past things. It can happen. To unbelievers, we get it. Sometimes until you know Christ, we're going to get to John 4 and there's a woman there. She's been divorced five times. She's living with a guy now who's not her husband. And Jesus, like, brings her into something. I guarantee that woman's situation

changed after that encounter with Jesus. And that's what we're saying. We're saying marriage is tough thing, but if you put it in the context of what we're talking about, you had this wedding, and then you got the idea of the temple, and then there's all this, like, fake, false front stuff that's going on that Jesus is going to clear out. We'll talk about the next podcast.

Same thing with a relationship. Jason's right, the symmetry in the picture is too clear not to miss. That that's the way we should be. Exactly. And we've talked about Christ, but look, there are worldly marriages that work. They don't even know Christ. And I use that for an example

because they just have an arrangement. Because really this unmet expectations is really a big thing. And I see people. They basically have a business arrangement in their marriage and they get along. But if you want something that will impact the world the way God set this up,

well, you get a dynamic Christ-centered marriage. marriage, and you have a lot of answers to give people. Yes, exactly right. You know, it's funny. Last night, Phil tried to shake my hand before we left, and I wouldn't shake his, I said, I'm not shaking your hand. Just take his hand out of that. But I will hug your neck.

And so I hugged him, and I said, I love you. And, of course, he didn't say anything. So then we go into the, yeah, well, we went into the living room, and so we're saying by, and I'm covering up Kay just to get her situated again. and I hugged her and told her I loved her. She told me she loved me. And then Phil's, you know, trying to get situated on the couch. So he gets on the couch.

And I said, I said, well, I love you, Phil. And he said, yeah, you too. So he didn't say, I love you, but, you know. Oh, you've planted the sea. Missy's proven it's possible. So I'm saying stay at. You guys have just got to start saying it more so that he can say it to y'all. Yeah, we should.

We try. We're raised by Phil. All right, we're out of time, babe. It's always good to have you on the podcast. So we'll see you next day. I love you. Thanks. I love you.

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