Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1053 | Jase Adopts a Trick to Combat Spiritual Warfare & Why We Can’t Predict the End of Days

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

Jase employs one surefire method that has always helped him overcome spiritual battles in situations where he’s surrounded by sinful activities. Zach dives into the reasons humans are always terribly inaccurate when it comes to predicting the end of days and the time of Jesus’ second coming. The guys agree that it seems like the world is experiencing a revival of Christianity based on how many big names and celebrities are speaking the name of Jesus publicly these days. In this episode: John 3, verses 1-16; Malachi 3, verses 1-4; Revelation 21, verse 22; Mark 1, verse 14; Mark 11, verses 27-33 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to the Unashamed podcast. Did you guys keep up with what Sadie was doing? I know I mentioned it in the previous podcast, is Gather 25. You told us about, I'm very curious. I didn't get to see any of it because I was busy doing events and stuff, but I'm very curious as to what happened. This is the first time I've heard of it. First you've heard of it. But it was, we watch. watched it. They, so it was Jenny Allen out of, I think she's had a Watermark church. She's actually goes to church with the Shains. They were, they were part of it too, Shane and Shane. Well, what is the gather 25? That, what is that?

So 25, 2025, 2000. Because I was like, yes. I was going to try to gather everybody up. I'd shoot for more than 25. That seemed like a low number to you. So they did the global church gathering for in 2025. So, so they did. they were, I think they picked all seven continents. They had different places that they would have these events and kind of like 24 hours of worship prayer. So there were different Christian leaders on all the continents of the earth at the same time. Yeah.

Okay. And they also spread out. It was cool. We watched us, Jill put it on. And so Saturday was like the one, the event that Sadie was that was in London, which we left early because I would, I mean, I was like, man, I should have stayed. It's pretty awesome. But I was having a conversation with Jill about, I was working on my lesson because I taught we're in the book of Mark at our church. And I was teaching them Mark 14.

And I was working on it. I was trying to give her the lesson to get some feedback. And she's like, wait, wait, what's going on here? Because you had the event on the screen, what they were doing. I said, well, turn it up. She's well, it is up. I said, no, to turn the volume up. She's like, no, the volume is all the way up.

I was like, I can't hear anything. She said, I know. That's why I wanted to watch it. And it was the whole building of probably, I don't know how many people, hundreds of people just face down in complete silence before the Lord. And then one of the ladies got up that was on the worship team, I guess, and just started to lead the entire group in a prayer of renewal and asking God to come and asking for revival. And it was such a powerful moment. I mean, me and Jill, like, Jill got on the floor to start praying. I was like, wait, what am I supposed to do?

And so I got on the floor and we started praying. And it was such a special moment because he was praying a prayer of like repentance. And when I was in prayer, I had this thought. I've been praying for like the last 30 days about how does God want us to interact in culture and all these things I've been praying for. And I wanted to read you this verse that came to mind as I was in this. posture of prayer because man it was so powerful i've heard this verse like so many times but i i'd never really heard it in this light as i was hearing it as i was praying this is and this is answering the question of how do we engage in culture as christians and i've heard this first

read so many times but i never heard it quite like this verse 14 to second chronicle seven if my people if my people who are called by my name humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and I will forgive their sin and heal their land. And I've heard this verse a thousand times, but I think I always thought that verse meant if, like, the nation would fall to her knees and repent, then God would heal us.

But he doesn't say that. He says, if my people, those who are called by my name, he's talking to people who bear the name of Jesus. Like, if we bear the name of God, we are the ones that are called to humble ourselves and pray

and seek his face and turn from our wicked ways. Then he says he'll hear from heaven and we'll forgive our sin and heal our land. And it was like this moment, guys, I'm telling y'all. Like, I think there's like this global movement that's starting of like renewal and revival. I really believe it. And there were seeds of that this weekend. So if you got a chance, y'all need to check that out. Gather 25.

I think there's some of the, some of this on YouTube. But it was powerful. And Sadie spoke at one, by the way. She spoke at the one in London. which is pretty awesome. Well, I did see a new poll. Who's the group that does the poll? Pew.

I saw that. Pew. Yeah. That was like the first time in, what, 100 years? No, I don't know how many years it was. A lot of years. A lot of years that there were actually an uptick in people putting their faith in Jesus. Yeah.

I don't know how they worded it. Right. They'd been in a decline for a while. Oh, it's like it's been in a decline and it stopped. And so, like, that's what's been interesting. Like, we've been seeing that at our church. church and I wondered if it was anecdotal. I don't think it is because I think that

what you just mentioned. I saw the head of Wikipedia, I think just came to Christ. I saw RFK's running mate who was big in the Green Party in Silicon Valley just got baptized. I mean, you keep here, Russell Brand, you keep hearing these stories and we're

seeing that in our church and I'm like, what like what's happening here? I really believe it that like something is happening and I think that like what is interesting is that that like renewal and revival has always, always came after individual people, like just getting on their face before the Lord and repenting of sin.

You know, all the great awakenings came out of a movement of repentance and of God's people. And so I think we're in like this really interesting time of, I don't know if you guys were seeing that in the Unashamed land. Are you seeing revival in your areas? Well, and certainly the people that I've had conversations with, when I'm out on the road of just people who connected with us on our podcast, and they tell me their stories, their own personal walk and finding of Christ.

But then what we're providing here in these Bible discussions is, in essence, a discipleship training program for what it means for new believers. And I take that, I mean, we're very humbled to be able to do that. I tell people all the time, you know, even the three of us without dad have a a lot of combined experience of studying and teaching the Word of God. And so we take that as a huge responsibility. I mean, we like to have fun. This is a Robertson-style Bible study.

But at the same time, what we're doing with the scripture and how we're approaching it, I mean, I don't know about you guys, but we all speak publicly as well. I treat our podcast and our time together just like I would if I was presenting a sermon or teaching a series at a church or whatever. You know, it's the same. Well, we're constantly learning and growing, connecting the dots of the Bible. I know some of this gets deep sometimes, but, you know, like we said last podcast,

this, you know, even Paul called this a mystery. Yeah. I mean, the whole plan of God in Ephesians 1, he said, this was a mystery, and it was kept hidden. And there is something to be said in the Bible about the God versus the little G gods. Yeah. and the power of God against all other powers that are anti-God.

And so it is confusing because even his disciples didn't get it till after the fact. Right. And for us, it should be easier because now after the fact, you can go back and connect all the dots. But it is a mystery that is revealed in Jesus to God's plan. And he seeks us. He's seeking, but he seeks those who are seeking truth. Like, that's the interesting part about it. Like, he is the one doing the seeking, and he's looking for those who are looking for answers.

I mean, it's just like, yeah, you turn, you turn, if you turn your face. Yes. He says, seek my face. Right. Seek my face. And that was interesting, that phrase, because yesterday at church, I preached on the, right out coming out off of judas is jesus prophesying that judas would sell him out and then he immediately a mark he immediately turns to the 12 the rest of the 12 the other 11 says hey guess what all of you are

going to leave me and i'm going to walk that road alone and they all did leave him and he was completely abandoned and he suffered a cruel death on a roman cross he walked the hill of agaratha all by himself and we all abandoned him everybody abandon him and we had this moment in church where like we all on our face. People were like in the aisles on their knees, repenting of sin. And later that afternoon, a couple came over to meet for our house and me and she'll were just praying with them and talking with them. And this is a couple that recently became a Christian, both of them, and they just moved here. And she grew up pagan. So she grew up in like more of a wican culture. She said, I didn't go to the doctor growing up. She grew up in England. She said, if I got sick, I went to a witch. And, and they

would perform whatever. He grew up very kind of new age mysticism. And one of the things that he said to me yesterday that hit, and it goes into what we've been talking about, particularly with this whole temple language in John chapter two, because I think like, I mean, Jason, you said it. Like, that was complicated. We got deep in the last podcast.

Agree. But you say, why? Why does it matter? Here's what matters. He said, he said, I'm going to tell you guys why what we have seen and why we came to know Jesus. that in all of our pursuits, in witchcraft, in all of our pursuits, in New Age mysticism, and all of our pursuits that we've gone after, we've never felt, we've never had a term he called

the felt presence of the Lord, the felt presence of the Lord until we came to know Jesus, and that happened here recently. And I thought, man, that's why this matters, because what's happening in John chapter 2, when Jesus is claiming that he's going to rebuild this temple, You destroy this temple and I rebuild it in three days. The reason why that matters is because, as Jace said in the previous podcast, the temple is the place where God's presence is known. The temple is the place where God and man meet. The temple is the place where heaven and earth meet. And so for Jesus now to embody that and to become that temple and then to send us the Holy Spirit, as he's going to tell us later in the book of John,

it's ultimately he is the way that we experience the felt. presence of God. I think this conversation has profound significance, and I think it is directly related to the renewal and the revival movement that I think is happening in beginning right now across the entire globe. So I wanted to read another prophecy, because Jace got me thinking about it when he was in the last podcast in Amos, and there's another one that, again, I think most people have always looked at this

and went all the way forward to the end of time. because again, the headings is the day of judgment. So everybody says, oh, yeah, well, that's got to be the final coming of Christ. But think about it if this were talking about what we've been studying in John 2. Listen to what he says. This is the Malachi. Now, this is before he gets to the end, this is right at the end, before we then have these moments of silence, then we get to Matthew.

See, I will, this is Malachi 3. See, I will send my messenger who will prepare the way for me. Well, we know who that is. That's John the Baptist, because he's going to explain that clearly. in chapter four of Malachi. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple. The messenger of the covenant whom you desire will come, says the Lord Almighty. Listen to this, but who can endure the day of his coming?

Who can stand when he appears? Everybody says, yeah, that's got to be the other time. For he will be like a refiners fire or a laundering or soap. He will sit as refiner and purifier of silver. he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Sounds a lot like somebody come in and turn it over tables and saying, no, no, you're getting wrong. Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness

and the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will be acceptable to the Lord as in the days gone by as in the former years. So if you just imagine the possibility of that happening when Jesus actually came to the earth and what he did by flipping the temple and saying, I am the temple. it would change your entire perspective over now the time that we live in. We're still looking forward to the final coming of Christ, but we're just saying that these passages seem a lot,

they make a lot more sense if it happened in the day of Jesus. Well, and because the point is of the whole scripture is God is going to make us home with man. Like that's the big, that's the big meta-narrative. And the reality is he's doing that now. Come be a part of it. Join us. be a member of the kingdom of heaven on earth in this moment. So it makes people realize this is what God is doing now through Jesus.

Exactly. There's a purpose here. Because I think if you don't put all these dots together, you tend to just be sitting there, as I coined one time, waiting for a ride. Yes. You know? Which is why I think the churches are so boring sometimes, you know, and so judgmental,

because they're just like, we're just waiting on a ride. This place is, you know, nothing you can do it. Have you ever seen that when you're leaving the airport, Jay's, and you look around and there's people waiting on their Ubers, they're looking at their phones, they're just like, oh, if I could only get a ride. If I could just get a ride. That's how hitchhiking became a thing. Exactly, because it got to be on the moon.

I just need a ride. Well, what are you doing? you're hitchhiking, nothing. That's right. So that's why when I read that Ephesians 2, if God has made his dwelling among you now and you've become the temple of the living God on earth, your life would look drastically different.

Yeah. Wherever you go. It's funny because the picture, once you start to see this, I will go ahead and tell you, once you start to see this in the scripture, you're not going to be able to unsee it. You won't because you'll see it, this thread is all the way through.

And it's not, you don't have to figure out all these crazy like, oh, this means, oh, these are Black Hawk helicopters and these are this and not like, you don't have to do all that stuff. Which is a reference to people taking some verses in Revelation and have them

equated to Black Hawk helicopter, literally. Yeah. Black Hawk. Or rumors of wars, you know. Certain countries, right,

right. Yeah. And you're trying to figure that out. And I mean, that's why every. who tries to prophesy the second coming who is given a date on it has got it wrong so far. Every single person who has said this is the date that it's going to be, unless the dates in the future, all the ones that have gone before us, they've given us the dates, none of them

have come true. We're trying to, it seems so. Zach, I would also argue why there's so much argument about when the dates of these letters were written. Because a lot of people who have a different view of an actual temple, set up, they tend to date the Bible way later. The problem with that is, then you have the most significant event that happened to Israel since I would argue the parting of the Red Sea, and they were liberated from Egypt,

the destruction of the temple in AD 70, well, then if you put these dates way later, then you now have the most significant event, which was the destruction of the physical temple in AD 70, never being mentioned in the Bible. Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, how would it never talk about that? When it had been pointed to so much. I mean, the literal temple was destroyed in AD 70,

and the Bible never mentions it? That's right. Well, then I'm not a smart fellow, but I'm thinking, I guess this was written, before that happened. Yeah. And I think that the picture, though, that you get, once you start to go down on this trail,

is the picture's not the song, the songs that we sang growing up, at least some of them that shaped our imagination. I was thinking on one the other day, which I love this song, by the way, how great thou art. I love that song. But there's a line in it that says,

when Christ shall return with shots of acclamation, and take me home, what joy shall I fill my heart. The real picture in Revelation is that when Christ shall come with a shadow acclamation and make his home. Because heaven is coming back. Heaven and earth are coming together. That's that picture that you get when you get to the end of the Bible about the new city

where God's going to make us home with humans now. He says the dwelling place of God is with man. And God makes his home with us. And I think it's such a, like a real, like, tangible, beautiful, like, picture of the arc, the narrative arc. It's almost like we're being restored back to Eden. No, we are. And I'll read the verse. I've read it many times with that Revelation 21, 22 says, I did not see a temple in the city because the Lord God Almighty and the lamb are its temple.

I'm not sure how you square through that. Yeah, we've read it before. but I just, I don't know what you're going to do with that. Look, especially when it's so good news that God has chosen, despite all our flaws and our past, to live with human beings in such an intimate setting, down deep into your inner soul and being. And it makes the spiritual warfare aspect of it way more real.

Yeah. I mean, the other night, when I went to that event, I shared on the last podcast. You know, I dare say there was a little voice in me saying, you represent the Lord God Almighty. So it wasn't about me overcoming temptation as much as it was. I need to share Jesus with these people as an ambassador of Christ and my partnership with God in this vocation and ministry of sharing Jesus to an earth filled with people who need it. Right. So I did it.

which I noticed, oh, by the way, I also did way less sinning because I was busy doing something for the Lord. And I think it's okay to say that because you're like, well, you can't technically do anything. No, but I'm partnered with the Holy Spirit. And when you're in a setting where there's a lot of sin going on, the best thing you can do is start talking about Jesus. Yeah. Because it draws a line in the sand.

Right. Because we're cutting, we're trying to cut away waste. time. Everything becomes about the expediency of telling as many people out Jesus as possible. You realize we're only in this phase of it for a period of time. You know, we've got to make the biggest impact we can. Think about this, the verse that we're in that we're, we were talking about last podcast. We're in it again. I want to read something to you. And then I want to, I want to make a point and I want to read another verse to you. This is in John chapter two. This is what we're talking about. Jesus answered them, because he turns over the temples,

the tables in the temple. They said, what's your authority? And this is his answer. Destroy this temple, and I will raise it up in three days. They replied, it's taken us 46 years to build this temple. Are you going to raise it in three days? But the temple that he had spoken of was his body. And after he was raised from the dead,

his disciples recalled what he said. Then they believed the scripture in the words that Jesus had spoken. Now, this verse sits right in the same. center of John or at the end of John chapter two it's kind of like a key part of the whole story and to not deal with this is is to lessen its significance you say well is this just some kind of weird thing that's in the Bible that you know because there are things in the Bible that we read that like highly debated maybe or very like no one really knows what means and it's kind of doesn't yeah we all have different opinions on this but doesn't really matter here's why I think it matters

If you look in John and Mark 14, listen to how much this matter what Jesus just said. This is how much it mattered. This is in Mark chapter 14, verse 55. The chief priest and the whole Sanhedron were looking for evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death, but they couldn't find any. So they want to kill Jesus here. They're looking for evidence. Many testified falsely against him, but their statements did not agree. him, some of them stood up and gave this false testimony against him. So whatever this false

testimony that's about to come, it's of tremendous significance because this is the testimony that got Jesus killed. Verse 58, what was the false testimony? Here it is. We heard him say, I will destroy this temple made with human hands and in three days build another not made with hands. That's the testimony that got Jesus killed. So you say, why does it matter? Did it matter what Jesus said? Yeah, because what he said in John 6, I mean, John 2, that was that was the accusation that was brought up when they almost condemned him to death. It was the accusation they brought against him. The reason why they killed Jesus was because of what he said in John 2. Now, they misrepresented him because he never said, I will destroy this temple. He said, destroy, you destroy

this temple and I'll rebuild it in three days. He never said he would destroy it. They said that. By the way, this is the same exact thing they got Stephen stoned in the book of Acts. He talked about the temple and basically said the same thing that Jesus said. So I don't think we can look at this text in John 2 and say, oh, this is just a weird thing that's in there that doesn't really have any central preference or priority in us understanding the entirety of the Bible. This is one of those things. He's got to agree to disagree. No, it's a centerpiece. It's a theme line of the whole body. And Jason and I both believe, and we talked about this on previous podcast, that the reason John put this in, because I think, Jay, you and I both believe this is the same incident that happens at the end of the chronological gospels.

But John had a reason why he put it here. And look, because the reason I think that is because right after that, Zach, in verse 23, it says, now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover feast, many people saw miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name. That's a broad statement of a lot of miracles he did that caused a lot of people to look at it. But why did John include just seven out of all the thousands of miracles that Jesus did? He was making a point throughout his entire narrative. He was, but one of them has the following text. Now I'm going to have to go look it up. After this happened with, remember that time when Jesus said they were asking about authority,

who, same question, because this was about signs and, I mean, one of the other gospels. And then they have this scene, you know, of them, this is right after he cleared the temple. And then they questioned as authority. And then he gave that illustration

about John's baptism. Was it from heaven or from men? Oh, yeah. So I'm saying that seems to fit more with the John 2. Why are we bringing up John the Baptist? Because he happened right off the bat. Right.

But I don't know. Maybe it could be just a coincidence. It could be. But my point is, as you're looking at that up, he laid out a very stark narrative. And we're about to get into Nicodemus, which I think, again, is very much on purpose because this is a leader in Israel that's going to come into the situation now with Jesus. And he doesn't understand either. I mean, it doesn't understand.

than at all what's happening. And when Jesus lays it out to him, he's stunned to hear what Jesus is actually here for. Do you find it? Yeah, it's Mark 11. So this is quite a ways into Mark. Yeah, because Mark's only got 16 chapters. Let's see. Well, yeah.

Okay, yeah, so look, so Mark 11, 12 is where Jesus clears the temple. Yep. So there is one little scene in between the way. withered fig tree. But then it says in verse 27, they arrived again in Jerusalem. And while Jesus was walking in the temple courts, the chief priest, so it's right after he cleared the temple. It says, and who gave you authority to do this? And Jesus replied, I will ask you one question. Answer me. And I will tell you by what authority I'm doing these things. John's baptism, was it from heaven or from men? Tell me. Of course, they discussed it. Said, well, if we

say, from heaven, he'll say, well, why didn't you believe him? But if we say from men, they feared the people for everyone held that John really was a prophet. So they answered Jesus, but we don't know. Of course, I really wanted to hear Jesus' answer here. Exactly. And like his basis for making the answer, but he gave him a Jen Saki answer. We're going to circle back and get back to you. Well, I'm not going to tell you by what authority I'm doing these things. because it would have been helpful my poll point for bringing that up is because now we make a transition

or John does and like verse where did we leave off verse 23 when he says now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover feast which I think is an important context for what's fixed to happen

at the Passover feast many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name. But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men. Yeah, this is interesting. He did not need man's testimony about man,

for he knew what was in a man. And I'm not going to stop there just because I think it matters the next verse because it's like, now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish council. I think he falls into the category, that everyone else does also.

Right. That Jesus is not trusting you for answers. Right. And rightfully so. But because if you were going to trust anyone as a religious people in this day, Academus would probably be high on the list because he was a member of the Jewish ruling counsel. And so they get into quite the discussion after that.

So I don't know if you want to stop and talk. about that, what that means about him not. Well, I was just curious to what you thought about that, because that's an interesting way of how John puts that. He wouldn't entrust himself to them because he knew what was in them. Probably because they didn't understand. They got it wrong. He knows how we think.

My first thought was, I thought, looking ahead to John 8, remember when it was after the feeding of the 5,000, which we'll get into. And it said, then he did other things, and they believed in him. But the minute he started asking them questions, they quickly didn't believe in him, because they went from believing in him to picking up rocks. Remember at the end of that trying to kill him? And so I think that's what he means. He knew they weren't ready.

I think it goes into the thought. I don't know. I'm just speculating. You know, those verses where Paul says that God doesn't need anything from us, he himself gives all men and life. Because we tend to be like that. Oh, like we're doing God some favor, you know, that he needs us for whatever. No, he doesn't.

That's why he'll make verses statements that seem complex. Remember when he says, for I didn't, you didn't choose me, but I chose you. It's not based on you what you think about me. Obviously, you don't know or you wouldn't need me. Right. You know, so. Any, no, I mean, I think in his divine knowledge, I think this is an appeal here to the, to the divinity of Christ. And he knows what's in your heart.

So, like, he's not, like, he's looking at the crowd and he's, he knows what at each, what, which each person is up to. And so he's able to discern and say, I don't know, I'm not going to entrust myself to these people because I know what's in them. Yeah. And, and some of them maybe weren't legit. but I do think, I want to back up one thing to that Mark 11 that you were mentioning. I do think it's worthy of note. The Mark 11 passage, I'm not 100% convinced. That's the same event as John Chapter 2 in the clearing of the temple.

One reason is because there was different. When asked about the authority, there's two different answers. But I just think even the way, where it's at in the text, I don't know if it's the same event. But I don't think it is. I think we can all agree that we don't know. make claims they, we're not omniscient. It's just weird that in three of the Gospels, it happens

much later, and in one, it happens. My deal is if you weren't tied to a synchronology of a story, then you could pop things in wherever you wanted to. I tend to agree with that. I think, yeah. I mean, but if it is multiple occasions, I don't think that that would be

against the nature of Jesus. He's very, very, very concerned about the temple. I don't, I think that it just highlights the concern, but I love the Mark 11 passage because it says something in Mark 11. He references an Old Testament passage in Mark 11 mainly around what is the goal of the temple and the purpose of the temple. And I think it's important when he, because in John 2, when he gets upset, he's more upset.

It seems to be that he's more upset that they've just turned it into this marketplace. You know, it's a money thing. Yeah. But in Mark 11, it gives a little more flavor to what Jesus is actually upset about. And this is, I wanted to read it because it fits into what we're saying and what we said in the last podcast about the Gentiles being grafted in or to use language. I will call people who are not my people, my people, or to use the language that you use out of Amos. We're talking about. To all nations.

Yeah. Yeah, nations and Edom and versus Israel and all that. Listen to what Jesus says whenever he's upset with them. He says, is it not written that my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations? But you've made it a den of robbers. The issue is not that they made it a den of robbers so much as of what that perverted. It perverted the intention of what it was. The purpose of God's house was not to not be a den of robbers.

There was a purpose to be a house of prayer for all nations, which would be, Jew and Gentile, every nation coming in. It was all the tribes. It was everybody coming into this house. And the reason why this matters is what we're saying in this podcast and what we've said repeatedly, it's not a New Testament invention. In fact, if you go back and read the Old Testament in the light of what we're saying and what Jesus is revealing here, this stuff was always in the Old Testament.

He doesn't make that verse up. That's a verse that they've got to Deuteronomy. My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations. That's in the Old Testament. They just somehow missed it, but it was always there. This story was always there about God bringing in all the nations. So then you get to Nicodemus, and it's interesting that he's talking to someone who is definitely high in the upper echelon of Israel. But he's making a point of grafting in the entire world into the kingdom.

And you could always be, the Gentiles could always be outside the temple in the outer courts of it, but they couldn't get inside. That was the difference, unless they went through the ritualized. part of Judaism. That's what's changed with Jesus. No, I thought the same thing. Look, yesterday I was at WFR and Dave was preaching. He did a good job, but he was doing it on Ephesians 4, 20 through 24, and he was just talking about your new mind and this transition. You know, if you read the verse, it's like, you know, put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its evil desires to be made new in the attitude in your minds and to put on the new self. So that's what he talked about. Yeah. But that last little phrase, which it didn't really talk too much about, that's what I thought

for our discussion, because it says created to be like God in true righteousness and wholeness. I'm like, the reason they're having trouble wrapping their heads around this old building of a temple and the new temple is he's from John 1-1 all the way to now, he's introducing a new creation. It's not that just he's the temple that he's dying and being buried and raised, but the people who then surrender to him become part of that new creation. This is making everything right. And that's why it emphasizes on what he's doing now in our life,

because that's why when he goes into the practical things here, and I've used this illustration numerous times here, but in verse 28 of Ephesians 4, when he says, he who must be, has been stealing, must steal no longer to your point, Zach. It's not about so much you're robbing the temple.

It's that, but he must work doing something useful with his own hands so that he may share with something. And he's looking at what the new creation is going to bring by him, dying for our sins, overcoming the evil powers against us, creating this hope of never dying. And in the meantime, you now functioning as members of his kingdom

and showing that God is here. Let's just think about the difference, Zach, that you go from being near the presence of God once a year, we're talking about under the old system, to having the presence of God live in you. Yeah. I mean, you're talking about a, leap here. This is quantum leap. Yeah, the vision is not, the vision of the kingdom, the gospel of the

kingdom, to quote, you know, Jesus in Mark chapter one, it's the gospel of the kingdom is not a negation of all the things you can't do. Oh, Zach, preaching. So good. So good. Look, at 90, I would say over 90% of these sermons in America on every Sunday is what you don't do. Yeah. It's like he died for your sins and now you got to clean that up and have as few as possible, and then you might make it. Maybe. What are we supposed to be doing? What happened to the new self?

And we wonder, man, why is this not selling well? Why have we been in decline for decades? Which brings us, I think, to John 3, one of the most controversial, there's more ways to believe what in the world is he talking about here. And so we're going to hang out here for a while because there's multiple views of what this means. But I do think it's a good foundation to realize that what started John's conversation about this is that Jesus wasn't trusting what men thought. That's right. And remember the context of where we are from John's perspective.

Everything we're looking at is through John's perspective. And it was during the Passover feast, which I think is going to be important to my take on them. and I'll see what y'all think. But I'll just, you want to read it? Yeah, well, read the first two verses. Let me give a little bit of background, then you can go from there. Because remember, we got new wine,

and we got the clearing of the temple, and then we got this incident. So remember those two coming into it. Well, and we're introduced something that Mark quickly gets to in his gospel, but here, I think this is the first time that the kingdom of God is mentioned in John. Well, let me read the first two. Let me set it up and then you go from there.

So there's a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you were doing if God were not with it. Let me just give you a couple little things about Nicodemus. One is, I found interesting. His name in Greek means conqueror of the people, which is interesting. So this guy is very much in high esteem. He is a member of the Pharisees, and we've talked about this in past podcast, the Pharisees

got to think this goes all the way back to Daniel. These were separatists. These were guys that under the Babylonian captivity, they didn't go with the Babylonian way. They stood for the godly way. That's where the Pharisees began. So this is 600 year. Which is good. Which is good.

These were guys that stood for what was right. But unfortunately, they added so much because the mission of, which was, you know, these things they wrote. They had 24 chapters, Jace, about keeping the Sabbath. Yeah. 24 chapters. Well, they took the Torah and then made a lot of additions. Exactly.

So he was a Pharisee. He was a member of the Jewish ruling council, which is the Sanhedron. That's a 70-member body. And if you were trying to put it in modern politics, it's like a parliament and Supreme Court all rolled into one. Yeah. You had the high priest and you had these guys. Which also made their system all performance-based.

Everything was, exactly. And so the other thing I want to add in that is he comes to Jesus at night, which means one or two things to me. He's either trying to be super diplomatic because there's a lot of angst that's going on behind the scenes, or he really is seeking, which is I think what it is, because later on we know, because we read the whole book of John, that he becomes a believer at the end. So that's the setup. Now, here's my take. I'm going to read this, give you my take about the context.

y'all whatever you thought i believed on this i've made a shift in my thinking and it was because i thought man why there are so many disagreements on really what this phrase means where it says and i'm going to just read this out of context first where when jesus verse five after he tells nicodemus well i guess i let me just read it verse three in reply jesus declared I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God. Felt like we needed a drum roll of that. No one can see the kingdom of God unless he's born again. Well, how can a man be born when he's old?

Nicodemus asked. Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born. Now, I will just before I read verse 5, I'll give you a little background. When he says that born again in verse 3, there's a little letter behind it, and it says, Or from above. Born from above. And I immediately, does that sound familiar? In chapter 1, remember in verse 12, it says, yet to all who received him, to those who believed

in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, children born not of natural descent or of human decision or of a husband's will, but born of God. Yep. Or born from above. Verse five, Jesus answered, I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the spirit gives birth to the spirit. You should not be surprised at me, my saying,

you must be born again. And then he starts talking about the wind. It blows wherever it pleases. You hear it sound, but you cannot. tell where it comes from, where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the spirit. Nicodemus now, he's just like, smoke is rising off his head. He said, well, how can this be? Now, this is one of the reasons I kind of changed the context of what I was taught is because of this next verse. Because he said, well, you are Israel's teacher and you do not understand these things.

that made me stop in my tracks when I read this again for the, you know, 40 years of following Jesus because I thought he must have said something that he thought Nicodemus should have been an Israelite of Israelites that he should have been familiar with. Right. So what I'm going to share with you is probably you're going to think, whoa, because that's the reason I started trying to look back to the Old Testament thinking, why was Jesus thinking he should have known what he was talking about?

And so I'll make that point at some point. We probably won't have time today. But I want to keep reading. I tell you the truth. We speak of what we know and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you will not believe. How then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

So whatever he said, when he said there was some earthly things, things that he was talking about the things that happened on the earth, which is the reason I have a new context for this. Verse 13, no one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the son of man. Now he's speaking about himself and the third person, what you agree? And that's the same phrase that he used back here at the latter. And to Nathaniel, John W.

And I would argue. And we've got to, this is also connecting himself to prophetic vision in the Daniel had in Daniel 7, anytime you see that word, son of man. Which also discusses what topic. Yeah. The kingdom. Right. Yes.

This coming kingdom. So before we do our next podcast, go back and read Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 and look for key phrases, son of man and kingdom. Yep. And you'll find out that the kingdom that Daniel is prophesying about is an eternal kingdom. Correct. It will crush all other kingdoms. And he lists earthly kingdoms in the description of when the eternal kingdom would be established.

And to make this foundation even stronger, remember, I've said this before. I put a lot of emphasis on, I was emphasizing the word emphasis. That's easy for you to say. Well, that was a joke. I was emphasizing. I know, I got it. I got it. So look, in Mark 1, the first thing he said in Mark, you remember what it was?

Verse 14, after John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. And here's the first read letters in Mark. The time is here. He said, the kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news. Hmm. What's he talking about? Right.

So not to get down that rabbit hole yet because I want to get back to John. So then it says of verse 14 of John 3. Now here's another reason I kind of looked at the context. Just as Moses, well, you think this guy was familiar with Moses? I think he knew Moses. Knew him like the back of his hand. In fact. Which is why he could just pull a quote out of numbers and knew he would know he was talking about.

Now, you see the case I'm making for context of going back because he said, because I got to read, I think the problem with just reading the first five verses and then asking the controversial question, which is, what did Jesus mean by being born of water and the spirit? That's the controversial statement. And there's at least five views that I found on what people, who are smart people who love God, who disagree on. Yeah, scholars. Scholars everywhere, religious groups everywhere. There's a take on what did he mean by being, now we kind of get the spirit,

but we're like, why did he throw in water in there? Right. What is that talking about? Right. And boy, I'll save you some time, because some of them, in my opinion, are just ridiculous. But people, God-loving people, really think, because they just don't make,

it doesn't make sense what he's talking about. Like a natural birth, your born-one's natural birth. Natural birth. or even things I don't even want to say. Because water breaks. I'm too embarrassed to even say it in public. So, yeah. So verse 14, he said, just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert,

so the sun must be lifted up that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. So I'm building a pattern. And I've said this before, and I'm saying it again, when Jesus came because of the cryptic nature of the prophecy and all, he's going back to fulfilling these prophecies, which are sometimes hard for us to wrap our head around 2,000 years later because it was in the Jewish-Israelite world. So we go back and see how he fulfilled it.

But we also go forward because at this point, he starts talking about he's going to baptize you with the Holy Spirit. So there's things that he's going back to, Moses, you're Israel's teacher. Shouldn't you know what I'm talking about? And then he's also looking forward. Looking forward. And he also mentioned the line about, I've spoken to you about earthly things, like things that happened in the past.

So then it gets to verse 16, which is another reason that I change my view on the context of this. Because then he says, for God so loved the world. that he gave his one and only son. Now look, we tend to focus on he gave his one and only son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. But I focused just for the context on that first phrase, for God so love the world. Well, who's he talking to?

He's talking to an Israelite. He's bringing up what happened in Israel's history. He's bringing up Moses. and now all of a sudden he's telling this guy, because what is this guy, what do we know about a Pharisee? He's thinking, the only way you're getting to heaven

is if you were born an Israelite. And now all of a sudden he says all this, he introduces this idea about born and the spirit, and then he says, for God so love the world. Well, that seems like we're talking about everybody. Well, for Nicodemus, that had to be like, wait, what? I mean, he focused on that first statement.

It was like, I thought you were Israel. well, you know, we're representing them. You're talking about loving the world, the whole world. And this guy doesn't want to have anything to do with the world. All right. So we're out of time, but we got a perfect cliffhanger leaving all place.

John 316, the most famous verse. If you're ever going to leave a cliffhanger to a podcast, let's go with John's three. But you never gave us the answer, right? I never gave you the context. What does it mean to be born of the water and the spirit? The answer will come. next time on Unashamed.

What a cliphanger. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.