Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1055 | Jase Takes a Whole Town by Storm While One Guy Makes Things Awkward at 30,000 Feet

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

Jase’s travel adventures this time include a panicking fellow passenger trying to hold his hand and a friendly army of “Unashamed” fans taking over an entire town. Al loves that Jase is painted as the “bad boy” of the podcast, and famous angler Jimmy Houston could learn a thing or two about finding a better kissing partner than a fish. The guys delve into all the arguments for and against baptism that can be made and give their take on what the Bible says on the subject. In this episode: John 3, verses 5-6; John 7, verses 37-39; 1 Peter 3, verse 18; 2 Peter 2, verse 4 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. Jace has already previewed that he will need much editing today because he hasn't slept. Min a blur, well. Minna blur. I love when Jayce comes in on two wheels on Monday to record because I never know what's going to happen. Well, he said, he came in and said, handed his coffee cup or his mug there.

What is that, a thermos to make. Maddie and said, I made the coffee too strong this morning, which that right there told me, I don't know what's in that because every time I've ever drinking any coffee you've made, I thought, this is the strongest coffee I've ever had. So for you to say it's too strong, I don't even know what that means. This is the new bitter. As my dad used to say, this coffee would make you do a Russian tap dance, of which I replied, Have you ever been to Russia, Phil?

Because I have. And he went, what's that got to do with it? And have you ever tat bad? Because I don't think he's ever done. Oh, you're laughing at my jokes as more than that's good. That's what I'm saying. You're over a room. That was intensely funny.

I wanted to give an announcement because I did a little event in an obscure place in Arkansas, Farmington, which I thought. I thought I didn't mention it. No, you did. Which I know I did. Yeah. And let me tell you something. Unashane Nation is alive and well.

We took over the town. They had the biggest building within a few miles there. And they were expecting, I think they were expecting 1,500 men, but because that's all it would hold. Yeah. But we exceeded that. You were standing room only? It just, it was. it's hard to describe.

Yeah. And they were going to do a meet and greet. So, and what happened was, backstory on this, this is funny. They had, they were, the name of the church is called

brand new church, which I liked. Because I was like, what are you going to call it in 10 years? They said, 10 year old church. Which is funny, because the pastors,

and, you know, they had weird haircuts and all, but who am I to speak about the way somebody likes? You mean, like weird, like country boys, or,

like, hip, hip, Did they have on the little elf boots? Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's a thing now. I don't know. I don't do that.

I got a pair of those. I got a pair of them boots. No, you fit right into this thing I'm talking about. Yeah, because you can sing and the elf boots. As you're slowly morphing into J.D. Vance's body double. When I first sat down, I looked and I thought, oh, I didn't know J.D. Vance was on the podcast. There we go. Welcome, Mr. Vice President.

We're so glad to have you today. It's good to be here. Put that on the mean. We welcome JD Vance today. Oh, no, sorry, that was that. So I get up there and they were, I was talking to them. They said, well, we had two wrestlers coming. They were, and then they fell through.

So we decided to go with you and Jimmy Houston. You know Jimmy Houston? The rapper. Now, here's what's funny out. We had a guy. I didn't even know Jimmy Houston was still around. How old is Jimmy Houston? I hate to say this.

I Googled it to see if he was still alive. It didn't sound right. That's what I'm saying. He looks like he did 20 years ago. Wow. You know? And, boy, he was cackling. Yeah.

So I thought, are we going to wrestle? I asked him that. You think you can still do the DDT from the old day? Oh, yeah. They were giving away a boat. And I mean, this boat was, it wasn't like a John boat. That's up in boat territory. They make most of the boats in America are made up in Northwest Arkansas.

I would guess this boat. had to have cost $40, $50,000. And so when I got on stage, I went and looked at it because I couldn't believe it. I thought, they're giving this away. And I looked at it and went, hmm, doesn't have a paddle in it.

I mean, you would think a $50,000 boat or whatever it costs. Come with a paddle. So I segued into when I was a kid, we were up a creek without a boat. Nobody laughed. I thought it was funny. Another one of those lines that didn't land,

you're striking out quite a bit at these situations. Yeah, I am, but it didn't matter because the electricity in that room was off the charts. They were excited to be there. I thought, you know. Did you ask them how many of this in the podcast? No, what happened was during the VIP meet and greet that turned into just a thousand people rushing

toward where I was standing in about 10 seconds. So it went from that to we got to get out of here The meeting greet was a 45 minute walk through the crowd Of trying to get back out of too many people You know But they all listened to the podcast Wow I mean

Every one of that was the first line So it made me feel good I thought man we're taking We took over that town last night I mean it was hooping and hollering So the guys were they were like, no, what are you going to do on your

altar call? I was making them nervous, you know. I was like, well, you had two wrestlers coming. What were they going to do? Come on, come down front, and I'll give you a DDT. And I was like,

y'all handle that. I was like, we're trying to make disciples of Jesus. I'm going to introduce Jesus. And so I thought, I thought it went really well. I mean, it was fantastic. So it was a blur. We took that place.

over. I feel good about our listeners. A lot of young people, a lot of young men. I mean, young men saying, let's go. It's encouraging. They said they had over 200, you know, responses. So,

of like first time declarations making Jesus their Lord, so I felt really good about that. But the whole weekend was just filled with weird moments. And I'll tell you one, I bumped into to a guy in Atlanta, and he said, I go to y'all's church.

This guy, and I can say this, he looked rough. And I realized how I look. This guy looked rough. And I thought, you look like you fit right in at our church, because I obviously didn't recognize. What you mean is he looked rougher than you. And he said, I'm taking this as a sign. He said, my first flight was the first time I've ever been on an airplane.

And I was like, well, was it smooth? there. He said, oh, it was smooth. He said, but I had two other members of the church, and I figured, you know, it was God. He was like going play by play. People tell me that all the time, but they're on the plane, they're like, oh, I'm so glad you're on here. And it's like, do you think I have some special insight into a sample? This is where this is going. So, he said, what seat are you sitting in? Which is, I was a little nervous because I thought, we're getting too close for comfort. Are you sure you're a member there, you know, but I went ahead and looked at the 11, 2A, and he's like, well, I'm

I'm in three. I'm behind you. I said, oh, okay. So I forgot about that conversation because I was having multiple conversations. I met this young woman who was awesome for the Lord, but she was friends with the gymnast that we had on. Remember we had the gymnast from the Olympics?

Brody Malone. Talked to her for 20 minutes, awesome human being, and loves the Lord. And so, you know, multiple conversations. So we got on a flight from Atlanta back, and to say it was bumpy, is an understatement.

Or so I'm not noticing. It was nothing out of the ordinary. While I'm sitting there, and all of a sudden, I see this hand on the seat in front of me, start coming back. And I was friends. I used to play ball with a guy that was sitting to the right of me, him and his wife. I'd never met his wife. So we were been chatting.

Well, she looks at me and kind of like, what's wrong with this guy? Because the hand is like in between me. We were talking, and it's like in between us. And I'm like, man, this guy. I'm not flexible. I thought it was a stretch that wouldn't end I didn't know what was going on because it was him bumpy and finally this fella turned around

well it was the same guy who I guess got moved in front of me it was only one seat in front of him he's in one A and he turned around and he said Brother Jace I'm having a panic attack and I thought he wants me to hold his hand. And I thought, we're going to me in here. I'm not holding his hand. I said, hey, it's going

be a high. He said, what should I do? And I just, I looked up and saw the stewardesses. They're up there standing talking to each other. I said, look at the stewardesses. I said, when you see them, they're chatting. We're good. When you see them in the fetal position, that's when it's time for your panic attack. I was like, they're standing, they're talking. This is normal. That's right. And he was like, Oh, okay. And so then I just thought, you know what? He said he goes to our church. I said, I just gave my sermon.

I said, at some point, you've got to realize, am I going to believe in this or not? I was like, Jesus was raised from the dead. This is, I mean, we're either going to believe it or not, and I kind of told him my story about it. I used to be scared of flying until I had an emergency landing. Because in that free fall after the oil pump went out, I felt at peace.

I thought, well, this is where it all ends, you know. So let's go on, be with the Lord and pass it on to the next generation to share Jesus. I told him that story. So I thought, now, I got him lined out. He said, well, can I get up? And I thought, oh, he's fixed to preach a sermon. So I said, sure, I think that'll let you stand. I mean, even though it was bunkled, I just thought, I don't think he may.

So now he's put you in charge of this aircraft. Yeah. I mean, whatever you say is going on. stood up and got in his bag and he got a pill, you know. I was like, oh, well, we're back to drugs now. He's back in the recovery house. I said, that sermon didn't work. We took a pill.

I don't know what was in it. But I sat back down. I said, well, that didn't work. Then when we landed. Prayer won't work. Just find a pill. Yeah, we landed. I said, see, you made it.

And he said, well, I knew it was a sign that you were on here. I said, you got to remember something. It could have been a sign that me and you, it was our, time to go. Yeah. And so this fellow's wife next to me, she said, I'm so glad you didn't say that, Ned Flight. I do the same thing, though.

I look up at the flight attendants. When it gets rough, I look at their faces and I see how are they reacting. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Which is really just testing their professionalism because I'm sure they're trained to always look calm. You're right. I'm the exact same way.

But the last, every time I fly, it's just, you know, something I do. I'm trying to figure out. Where did you fly into? It said northwest Arkansas. Yes, that one up in Bentonville. Now, granted, you're mine right now because I know how your mind works. You're the apologetics. Do you do, do, do, do, do connecting the dot.

Why would a man fly to Atlanta when I could have flown to Dallas, which is technically closer? Right. And that's a good question. My team makes the schedule and I go with it. I'm sure it had something to do with my arrival. Timing of flight, yeah. And so there you go. I flew into Arkansas this weekend, too, so we missed each other.

But it was a rough flight, too. Did you fly into Little Rock? I flew in the Little Rock. Yeah. You know what? Zach, I actually had a five, but I'd say five people in the line say, where's Zach? I was like, hey, me and him, we have a relationship that if I drive by his house, I blow the horn.

I don't stop him. We don't travel together. We haven't estranged. It's cell phones. It's via satellite. Yeah, it's a complicated. It's a long business. It's not bad, but it's complicated.

I was in my old stomping grounds of where I went to college at. In Searcy, I went to a men's retreat there that the church that you guys go to put on. So some of my old college buddies is a men's retreat. So I was very surprised at how many young men at this retreat came up to me. And so I just listened to the podcast. I love what you guys are doing. I mean, it was a little shocking at how many. So there is a, I think Arkansas, like you said this before the podcast, Jay.

So if it all goes down, we just need to. If it all goes down, I'm going to run for mayor in a little town called Farmington. I looked up the demographics. there was only 7,000 people that lived there, and we had a couple thousand men. So they were coming in from all around. Do the math. I mean, was that a third of the town?

Or almost half. But I think there were some from a little, just the area. But boy, you're talking about fired up for the Lord. The one guy said, no, the dynamic of your podcast is good. He's like, you got Al, he's the good guy. He said, you got you, you're the bad guy. I said, wait a minute. Well, I've been redeemed by the blood of the lamb.

What are you talking about bad guy? This guy is spot on because of the dynamic of the podcast. You got to have a good one. You got to have a villain. And so then I thought we were going good, bad, and the ugly here. But he got to Zach. Didn't go ugly. He said, and then you got the okay guy.

Okay. And I said, you know what the Bible calls that? what? I said, Luke Warren. But he didn't get it, so I had to look it up and read it to him. I said, no, that created a vomit from the Lord. For whatever reason, I do hear a lot. They said, you need to tell Jace to lighten up on you. They start feeling sorry for you, Zaid. I have tapped into the victim. Yeah, the whole thing. You're the pity part of the party. That was my point. We got into that. I said, see, Luke Warren is bad. I

I was like, if you have an emotional response towards somebody, that means you love them. Yeah. But if you just don't care, that's the lowest form. Which I'd be really uncomfortable. I think it would make me really uncomfortable if you started like being real, like, affirming. And like, I think I would feel like that would sit right with me. Well, it's kind of like my dad, you know, when he started struggling mentally, well, some of the struggles, like, produced a side of him that no one in. ever seen.

And he told my wife, I shared this before, that he loved her, you know. And boy, she cried. And so she told me the story when it first happened because I wasn't there. And my response was, that's disturbing. Yeah. And she was like, what? I can believe you. It was a moment for her and you just like poop.

Babe, he is not doing well when he's telling you he loves you, you know. But I do think it was good. I mean, I think, you know, the Holy Spirit is there. Yeah, yeah. And one of the fruits of the Spirit is love. And so, hey, we'll take it. So here's my, for those of you out there that are afraid of flying because I fly all the time, and I don't like it either, just being up there.

But my last prayer is just before the wheels take off is I commit mind, soul, body, and spirit to the Almighty. It's yours to take, as you will, to leave. as you want. I mean, so I'm just doing your will. If you decide to go out in a blaze of glory, now I'm not as bad as Willie, because Willie says that he wants to be the guy that's like Willie Robertson died in a plane crash with four others.

He said that he always wants to be the headliner. And every time I fly with him, he reminds me. Exactly. He said, if this plane goes down, he's like, he said, you realize the headline. That just proves that despite the fact that Willie's no longer growing, the head continues to expand. Yeah.

I mean, that's what he says. And he includes me in that. Well, let me push back. You'll be one of the four others. I said, well, thanks. Well, let me push back a little bit on this fair flying. You know, I actually had a near-death experience during this encounter to Arkansas. And so.

That's where you were on the. Yeah, I went to Northwest Arkansas. Well, here's what happened. One of the planes. Oh, you're talking about this time. I thought you meant. Oh, yeah, this time. I didn't even bring that up.

You know why? Because I think your commitment is our commitment. Nobody's promising you. I mean, you know, the doctor tells you you got three weeks to live. And you're like, that's so shocking. Well, why? At some point, we all got three weeks to live. We will be three weeks away at some point.

I'm getting into my speech here. I like it. But so what happened was we land in Atlanta the first time. And we're, what do they call it, taxiing, which there's no taxi involved. So I don't know why we're calling it taxing. Maybe Zach can shed some plighting. on that to our little place what they call that terminal you're gay you're gay at the terminal which is another bad word i was kidding that yeah i did i hesitated on purpose we're now calling this the terminal

which is not a shock because we all are and so all of a sudden the stewardess is like thanks for you know flying if we good luck on your she's mid-sentence and taking the bags it'll be at the little place, you know, and all of a sudden, because it doesn't look like you're going fast when you're taxing, but you're going faster than you think. Whoever is now taxing instead of flying, when I say he slammed on the brakes, everybody went from back, which is why they always say keep your seatbelt. My head hit the seat in front of me, just come on. Because you had taken your seatbelt.

And my neck has been sore since then. We slam on the brakes because there was a plane landing in front of us that two seconds after he stomped on the brakes came by at about a Honda mile per hour. And that was after he's screeching. So it's like you see these little things that have been happening with air planes colliding. Yeah, we've been having some misses or something's going on. So here's what I'm pushing back on.

disregard the stewardess because she never skipped a beat. I mean, there was one slight pause because her head probably hit in front of her. But it was like, and enjoy your journey as we want. And I'm like, we literally almost died. And she never broke. We're here. We're landing. Have a great weekend.

Despite the fact that we all just almost crashed into an incoming plane that was two seconds away. It was two seconds. the plane came in front of us. I was like, good call not going out there. If he had been on a cell phone or whatever, same problem. So that happened. I mean, I'm just saying either we're going to,

I mean, we're only one moment away from that happening. But we just don't, we think, oh, no, it's not going to happen to me. Oh, yeah, it almost happened. And it wasn't even, didn't he make the news? Yeah. I mean, unless someone filmed it from outside. Unless somebody had a video of it. That's exactly right.

I don't think they did, but because, I mean, I kind of looked around and everybody. I didn't see a phone up, but I thought, you know. What about your guy? Did your guy realize that that just happened? No, different flight. Oh, okay. Different flight. Oh, yeah.

He would have never flown. He'd have taken the bus. It was funny, Jay, because somebody who knows this person that was on your flight told me yesterday, so-and-so, whoever the guy is, is, you know, he's, he's a member here. He's on the flight with Jay's. I can't wait to hear that story. Well, I just told that story. He was trying to hold my hand.

Oh, we had an intervention in mid-flight. Well, here's what's funny. The guy that got me and Jimmy Houston up there used to go to our church. I hadn't seen him in 15 years. Really? And my assistant was like, he's going to pick us up. This is funny. This is embarrassing, but it's funny.

It won't offend him. He's a great guy. So he picks us up. He's telling stories about, you know, he's like, your dad baptized me. And I was like, really? You know? And so we get, he gets us to the hotel. He's like going to come back, take us to the event.

But as soon as we got out of the truck, we were walking in, she's like, that's so neat that your friend, y'all are meeting up. I said, I've never seen that guy before my life. But, you know, people's anatomy and look change in 15 years. I mean, I just said, I have never seen this guy. I called Missy. I was like, you ever heard? And I said his name.

I don't want to say his name because I weren't embarrassing. And so she's like, let me look him up. And so she looked him up on Facebook. And she said, babe, you're going to find this very disturbing and embarrassing. She looked him up. Well, he actually sent me a text on Facebook, and I responded. He was like, man, great sermon today. You know, and I was like, hey, you know, if they don't hire you, they can't fire you.

The Lord is good. I was like, the fact that she found me, because I haven't been on social media and so long, I was like, she's like, you know him, babe, apologize. And so then later he brought his wife, well, you know, it's funny, I remember her because she was just a unique person, has a unique personality. And I was like, dude, I did not reckon, I did not think that was you. And so, but it was great. We had a fun time and lots of good stories with them. Because then all of a sudden I start remembering all. I mean, I actually went out to eat at a restaurant with these people and didn't remember it.

So it was a blur. But he lined it up and look, what a success. He looks like a genius around there. Right. I mean, it doesn't like work for the church. He just said, oh, y'all need somebody to get. I got a, because he organized an event for me and Jimmy Houston 15 years ago. And he said, you couldn't stick another person in it.

I'm telling you it'll work. Well, maybe you and Jimmy need to be a. duo maybe oh i love that guy on the row with jason jimmy we did to have jimmy on the podcast we really had him on there oh my first uh story was you know because he kisses the fish that's his signature and i so i said when i got up and spoke i said you know what the difference is and me and jimmy houston is it was just cricket because he had just done a 20-minute q-and-a and i did a 40-minute sermon but he's a believer you know he's a good guy yeah and so uh I said he kisses fish and throws them back.

I said, here's what I do. My story is a little more complicated than a bumper-sticker line. I said, I catch fish. He mainly catches bass. I catch crappie. I said, and then I told them out of my brother's pond in secret. And then I filet the crappie. And then I gave them the recipe of how I cook them.

I said, then I cook the croppy. Then I tell my wife, I said, the crappie is really. ready. And I said, we eat, no, we eat the croppy. And then they're so good, she's feeling so good that she married a wilderness man who can provide. I said, and then I kiss my wife intimately. Oh my gosh.

You were doing good to you through that. It was a men's group, Al. I said, look, I just had me until you put intimately. And so they all laughed. And look, then I said, We just fixed your marriage in one story. Don't kiss a fish, kiss your wife. There you go.

I was at a men's conference. I was at a men's retreat with the inventor of the croppy magnet. I love that dude. Yeah. I know you're talking about it. I'm actually going to see him. And he's got some guys in a Bible school lined up. And we're going to.

He's a fantastic guy. We've been doing stuff with him for, what, 25 years. Yeah, he's awesome. I think you can say his name. He don't care. Yeah, Jess Smith, the trout magnet. He does all the magnets. Check his products out there.

He's one of the few people on this planet when he asked me to do something, which is not very often. I go do it because he loves Jesus and he loves people. So, all right, we're going to talk about the Bible. Let's get to the Bible. We've had a lot of nuggets, but I thought you'd find that entertaining, if not inspiring, that un-establishing. We always, even though Missy says they're not interesting, we love hearing about your travels.

Hey, we took over that town for the Lord. Took it over. Do you stay at a hotel room? I did. Out in the middle of nowhere. It was cold. Couldn't figure out how to get the heat on. I was in there.

Look, it was 80 degrees. I never turned the heat on in a hotel. It's too hot. It was about 40 degrees outside, and the wind was howling, and I couldn't figure out how to get it on. So, there you go. I had a fill mom. I'm not skinny enough yet to need a heater room. But I was only there three or four hours, and then we moved on.

I told my sister, I was like, look, when you make these schedules, allow for some sleep time. But anyway, let's go. All right, we're in John 3 is where we left off. And I'm not exactly sure it's been a... Well, I went down a rabbit hole about the... We've been in so many of your rabbit holes. I'm not exactly sure.

I know one thing we didn't get to last time was this story about that Jesus, Jesus puts in about the lifting up the snake in the desert. The bronze snake. And the medical world made a emblem out of that even today. That's right. Because, you know, healing and because, look, I've looked this up. When you go back and read the story, where is that, numbers 24. Number 21.

Look at there. I was close. Numbers 21. Yeah, I want to read it because it's. Well, I feel like we left off on the. He left off on the born of water and spirit. Born of water and spirit. We were talking about that.

The whole point was the spirit was going to be introduced. Right. Because he then says, talking about the wind. You know, in verse 6, flesh gives birth to flesh, but the spirit gives birth to the spirit, which I made the point. If you think that this was a reference to

the Israelites being freed, the exodus with the partying of the Red Sea and the wind blowing. If you agree with me on that, then the flesh gives birth to flesh, I thought was a reference to, okay, you're born an Israelite, but I'm introducing a way to be born again, where there's neither Jew nor Gentile.

And we talked about the variant definition of that being born from above, which is an even better description of what happened. So then he says, you should not be surprised at my saying, you must be born again. But he was surprised. But he's like, I'm bringing a new, I think, Exodus, a new lifestyle, a new identity. Because you brought in the idea of the Exodus,

and then which I thought the tie-in was what Paul was talking about in 1st Corinthians 10, when he uses the word baptized there, the clouds over them, the water's on each, side of him and he saw it as this symbolic walking through water. Right. You know, coming into freedom. And don't give me, no, don't, don't, don't, uh, misinterpret. I could be wrong about this.

I think you're right. And yeah, well, I appreciate it. But I could be wrong. But I, I will say this, baptism is not the point. No. So, and it, and it's still not. Right. You know, the point, which is why I think he goes to the bronze snake, by the way.

Exactly. Yeah, the language. the language in 1 Peter 3 is just so helpful for me when you start thinking about baptism. I think if you get focused on like the physical act of it, and I do think there is some kind of sacramental. And the debate is, is baptism a sacrament, which means is it a means of grace or is it an ordinance, meaning is it an expression of grace? I think it's maybe a little bit of both, honestly. and when you start breaking it down like this,

I start getting lost. But I think most religious people know what you're talking about. Well, I mean, we grew up in a church that the question was always, well, it wasn't a question.

It was like, do you have to be baptized to be saved? Well, but put it in context. They also like put, it's like they focused on baptism instead of Jesus.

And so I was out on that just from the gift. go. I was like, you can't, baptism means nothing. Well, you can't go to the end of a process and then just say, there you go. Well, yeah, but let me finish my sentence because baptism means nothing if there's no Jesus. Right. What do we, it's a response to Jesus. It's link. I mean, that's why Paul said, Christ didn't send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel. Right. It's 1st, 117. Why would he say that?

Right. Now, granted, they were putting their faith in who was doing the baptizing. But look, it's not dissimilar to what happens next. We're skipping ahead from the snake here. But then they have this big controversy in the same chapter because John is baptizing, and then Jesus' disciples are baptizing people, and they're like, hey, John's disciples are like, what's going on?

Well, he's baptizing more than you. Well, we have a conflict on who's baptizing more people, which is similar to what Paul was talking about in 1st Corinthians 1. And then you remember the famous story in Acts 19. I say famous. May not be that famous. You remember when now the Holy Spirit has been poured out, Jews and Gentiles have heard about Jesus and been baptized in water,

and then all of a sudden they run across the people that had not even heard of the Holy Spirit. This is Acts 19. And they said, well, what baptism did you receive? And they said, well, John's baptism. So you ran across a group of people who had only been baptized by John. They didn't, they missed the memo on Jesus came, was crucified, resurrected, which to us, that seems weird. But look, you got to remember these people, they didn't have cell phones.

They're just wandering around. Remember that guy, Jesus, you were baptized saying he was coming? Not only did he come, he came back from the dead. And they're like, wait, what? But you remember how that closed in Acts 19? on hearing this, they baptized them in the name of the Lord Jesus. It means something. Why is that story in there based on John 322 in following,

which they were saying Jesus was baptizing people, but then John 4-1 just has this little thought that says, the Pharisees heard that Jesus was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John. Although, in fact, it was not Jesus. who baptized, but his disciples. But that's the end of that controversy, which we'll get to. So it gets, this is

this is a weird thing to navigate. It's always hard to talk. It's always hard to talk about things during a transitional period, which is what this is. Because we're reading the whole story, but we're trying to figure out what they were thinking in the moment of as things were happening.

That's a good point. It is a transitional period. And I think, really, don't have the, I'll say the faith that we live in now. Right. It really wasn't like inaugurated until Acts 2. That's right. So the Holy Spirit came.

So this is, and so the death of Jesus had not occurred yet. The burial had not occurred yet. The resurrection had not occurred yet in this text. But I go back to Matthew 3 when John the Baptist says, I baptize you with water, but he who comes after me will baptize you with the spirit. And so I think this is connected to the. the baptism of the spirit, which is not, in my opinion in Scripture, it's not. That doesn't mean speaking in tongues.

I think what he's talking about here is what's going to happen in Acts chapter 2. But the picture that you get in this John, this passage in John here, Nicodemus, we connected it in the last episode that we talked about this to, I think you connected it to the Red Sea. The Jordan River also parted whenever Joshua passed through. Peter connects it. You connected it with creation, which is great. And then Peter connects it with the waters of the days of Noah, talking about baptism. It says through that water, they were saved. And so I think the idea that you should kind of get in your mind is that you're passing through death into life.

And so that picture of the Red Sea is probably the best picture that Israel goes through the Red Sea and it swallows up like all of the enemy. And so that's the picture of baptism. And so the physical act of water baptism, it's a physical act of the baptism of the spirit. So it's a tangible expression of that. I think that's a good line. I mean, because look, I wanted to interject a couple things. Let's just put the snakes on hold because now he's introduced a can of snakes.

So I feel like I'm going to get to the snake. I feel like we need to say this, though. because this is why this is so confusing. He just read what John the Baptist said, and what did you say, Matthew 3? I'm taking your word for that. I think it's Matthew 3. Matthew 3.

So he's like, I baptize you with water. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. But then when you get to John 3.5, he's telling Acidamus, well, unless you're born of water and the spirit. You know, I'm said that's why this is so confusing. Because I agreed with what Zach said. I do think when he was talking about,

that it is the pouring out of the spirit right and what makes this more confusing is when he gets to john seven i'm going to read this because we have to in this moment because we're reading john three and he says he starts talking about this spirit everyone born of the spirit it's like the wind you shouldn't be surprised that i'm saying you need to be born again well watch what he says in john 7.37. On the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, if anyone is thirsty,

let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me as the scriptures has said, streams of living water will flow from within him. So let's just stop. What is he saying? What is he talking about? When you start reading this, that your mind kind of goes dull if you're like me.

And you're like, wait a minute, he's got an illustration about if you're thirsty, come to me, what's obviously kind of a metaphor. And he's like, if only John would tell us what he meant. Well, that's where I was going. And so John realizes you're having trouble with this, like wrapping your brain around this, kind of like John 4 with the woman at the well. He's like, I'll give you living water. What is this water you speak?

because we've got to have water, why? Or you'll die. That's right. Well, there's no water. There's no life. Yeah. So then he says in verse 39, by this, he meant the spirit whom those who believed in him, this is a very key phrase, were later to receive.

Up to that time, the spirit had not been given since Jesus had not yet been glorified. Which is the resurrection. Now look, wherever you may think I'm an idiot for giving you this idea about saying Jesus in the context with Nicodemus was, I think, going back to something in Israel's history. What that is we can debate about. I threw out the Red Sea and the new, you know, the old Exodus symbolizing the new Exodus. Because he's saying, you're Israel's teacher. He brings up Moses and the snakes.

But he also, there was one point I forgot to say last time, is when he says in verse 7, you should not be surprised at me saying, you must be born again. Well, look, there's a little letter beside the word you. And when you go down and look at it in your margins, it says the Greek is plural. Yeah. Well, that's where I'm getting the idea of this is Israel. He's speaking to your Israel heritage. Don't you think that's weird?

like you, well, Nick and demons are looking around because whatever that was in their language. In the South, we'd say, y'all. I mean, y'all. Well, he's looking around and said, I thought we were having a conversation. Mano e. Mano, why are you saying you?

I'd look around and say, he'd you talking about. But that's why I think it's the Israel heritage. Yeah. We call that y'all. That's y'all. That's it. Yeah.

Which is interesting because you go to the very next chapter, And it's almost like, okay, now I just had this conversation with Israel. Now I'm going to have this conversation with the Samaritan woman. And he kind of says the same exact thing, right? You got to be born in water and spirit. You know, you need living water. And that's why I said that I don't think baptism is as important when you read this because his point was the spirit of God is coming.

And I'm going to baptize you with it. I'm going to pour it out on human beings so that they can get it. That's why I read the John 7. And then when you tie that in with John 14, 15, and 16, he even goes further than that. He's like, not only am I not going to leave you as orphans, I'm going to leave the spirit, give you the spirit. And then remember he calls it, counselor, comforter, helper, whatever your translation. That's the, we're back to the paracletus, you know.

And he said, he'll be in you. He'll dwell in you. I mean, and we'll make our home with you through the spirit. I mean, it goes so deep. That's why I never liked the question, do I have to get baptized to be? I'm like, what do you mean? It's the bank. Now we're tracking.

Now we're tracking. I'm like, what an opportunity. And I think that's why baptism is so controversial. Because it is commanded in Matthew 28. Because I don't like it when people say, well, let's go do it because, you know, Jesus commanded it, going to all nations, you know, baptize them.

But I'm like, you're missing the power of what's happening here. We're talking about new Exodus, new creation, the Holy Spirit being poured out. Somebody's like, well, he said to do it,

so let's do it. Well, we made a point. Yeah, we made a point on the Not Yet Now podcast. She'll said something about baptism and somebody commented, are you saying you have to be baptized

to be saved? Question, question, question, question mark. I'm like, you're missing the point of what Jesus is doing here. I mean, this is way bigger than that kind of question.

It's like way bigger. And I think that like what hits home is the very next chapter, which we'll get into in another podcast. But if you think about what Jesus says to the Samaritan woman, when connected with the spirit, he says, think about it, she has to go to this well.

Probably, I don't know how if you'd have to go to the well and draw water, but she brings the water back to her little hut or wherever she lived. And you can imagine that bucket of water throughout the week just loses its volume UMS she uses it. This you've got to go back, and it's the same thing, over and over and over and over again. And the same thing was... Just like when you were flushing the toilets during the hurricane, right?

I got to keep going out to the pool, get a bucket of water. I'm really compelled by the Spirit of God right now to do a rabbit hole in First Peter 3. Can we not do it, Al? All right, you got to hold that, though. I got to get in my numbers point. Do you want to do the numbers or do you want to do the rabbit hole on First Peter 3? I have a rabbit hole. Let me say this first, though, because I want to make this point.

I think it's key to everything that we talk about the temple. There is a connection to what's happening here and the temple. Just as she had to go to the well to replenish her water, so Israel had to go to the temple to atone for their sins over and over and over again. The picture that's being painted here is that you will now be the temple. Why will you be the temple? because the Holy Spirit now, the presence of God would now live in people, which is why Jesus says to her, if you drink the water that I give, you will never be thirsty again.

The water that I give him will become in him a spring of water, welling up to eternal life, which he goes on to define in John 173 as an intimate relationship with him. So you're saying that's the Spirit of God. It's the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God. It's God coming in. So since I'm a good guy, you're a bad guy, can you make your rabbit hole point in five minutes?

Yes. All right, go for it. I'll say mine. What he's saying is what I'm saying. I think the reason we have some of many disagreements on baptism is because of what he just got through saying. I don't think we realize what it is. Because people say, well, it can't be something you're doing

because Jesus saves you 100%, which I think we all agree on. Yeah. But I'm like, it's not what you're doing. It's what God is doing in your death. And just like Jesus died, what happened when he died? Because you're, think Romans 6, when you're baptized, where are you baptized into, according to Paul? His death. Well, what does that mean? Oh, that means a lot. He died to sin. He took the worst of the powers that stood against him. You know, they're like, hey. So I think First Peter 3, clarifies this. I want to read this. This is fantastic. So look, First Peter 3, 18. Now listen to this. And somebody characterized what I'm fixed to read as God putting through the, through Peter, a bunch of different issues into a blender, and he wrote them down. I'm not going to disagree with that. Look, for Christ died for sins, once for all. So we all know that on the cross. That's what saves us. Of course, we're in John 3, we hadn't even got to that, but that's what's going to happen.

And he's going to refer to that in John 3. So then it says, the righteous for the unrighteous, look, to bring you to God. That's how you're brought to God. Jesus dying on a cross once for all. But watch this. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit. Now, I think that's a perfect depiction of what baptism is. And you say, well, where are you getting that?

Because he's fixed to break up baptism. You see what I mean? Just think, you're put to death. That's not you doing anything. You're dying. Right. But you're made alive by the spirit. Now, watch this little intersection.

Through whom, through the spirit, Jesus also went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. And you're like, record scratch, what? So get this picture in your mind, and I get this picture from 2nd Peter to, in verse 4, Peter would say in the second epistle,

God didn't spare angels when they sin, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons. So you say, who are these spirits? I believe that when Jesus died physically, his spirit went to this realm of the dead and he preached them a little sermon in that time and the sermon was oh you thought you were Lord of the Dead and that were controlling people you're doomed you thought you by killing me you would end my ministry that's why none of the rulers and authorities I really believe that's what he's talking about he gave him a little

message you're doomed and I'm coming out of here and he rose from the dead well then he goes to people he goes in the days of noah while the ark was being built in it only a few people ate and all were saved through water because why they were in the ark the ark the ark is what saved them yeah if they hadn't believed god when he said build the ark guess what they would have drowned but the same water that was destroying everyone else actually pushed the ark up and made it float above the water and they were saved. God provided the way. Watch.

And this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also, and it's not the removal of dirt from the body. It's not a ceremonial wash. It's not a bath. There's nothing holy about the water. Nothing powerful about the water. But the pledge of a good conscience toward God,

it saves you by the resurrection of Jesus. Go back to verse 18. Second half. He was put to death in the body, but made alive by the Spirit. That's why I say, look, all the evil powers and the evil one that are against us and our sins that condemn us, we're speaking the same thing when a person dies. He's telling that world, you're doomed.

You thought you had me. Guess what? God saved me through a cross. And then you come up. I think the same thing. It's a spiritual warfare verse, which is why when I, and I didn't come up with that, I heard a guy say that, and I was like, grief. What are you telling about? We're declaring to this evil world through the power of God.

It's not us. We're just dying. We're surrendering. So I think that was the route all I wanted to go down, and I'm done. That was in less than five minutes. That was good, though. I think that's what, but baptism, what it does is, it is our own reenactment of the death burial and resurrection of Jesus is that Roman 6 passage. It's by Jesus that we get. Yeah. And that's how, and that's how we get access into the triune nature of God. Right there is we come in through this. The father plans it. The son accomplishes it and the spirit applies that.

It's why God is a triune God. Like this is not something that we can back away from. This is who he is. And he manifests this in us. Are we reading numbers 21? No, no, we're out of time. Snakes on a pole? Snakes on a pole are going to lead the next podcast because

of Jason's rabbit hole. Remember, I'm the good guy. He's the bad guy. But it does show you the importance of John Chapter 3 to me in all of our belief system. This is a powerful chapter, which is why we spend a lot of time here. This is huge. It was huge for the moment, and it's huge for us to know. Don't miss the headline. You can start over. You can be free. You can be a new creation. You can receive God's spirit. There's a reason why you see John 3 16 on a placard all around the world. All right, so we're out of time. We'll pick it up next time.

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