Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1059 | Jase & Missy Robertson’s Son Proposes to His Girlfriend & It's Total Chaos

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

Jase’s son, Cole, pops the question to his girlfriend, and the chaotic scene—complete with stormy weather, uninvited critters, and a cake emergency—makes Jase feel like he's living in a "Duck Dynasty" episode. The guys explore whether the voices that guide us from within are ultimately good or evil, and how to distinguish between the two. Al and Zach paint a picture of God’s judgment that is more comforting than it may seem. In this episode: John 3, verses 17-19; 1 Kings 22, verses 18-23; James 3, verses 14-15; Ephesians 3, verses 7-10 —  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? I'm back to Unashame. I'm back in studio today. I had a brief time in my Southern Laird studio. My crack staff here is trying to get me set up down there. I think we finally got it. Yeah, our crack staff of one. Yeah, one and Josh contributes everyone. So we were just talking about Maddie. Who's your crack staff? I don't know. I act like he's living in. the different society parallel.

I was like, Crackstaff. Crackstaff. Crack staff is Maddie and sometimes Josh. She seems to be the troubleshooter. Josh used to do our podcast. I was on an adventure. You were? Yeah.

It literally was like I was part of a Duck Dynasty episode with no cameras. But I felt that they were there because everything that happened just seemed like a movie. Isn't that something? Like some weekend? I think you would only feel that way if you've been on television. Where did you go, Jace? I went to a little place called Nashville, Tennessee. Ah, the eastern layer for Jays.

Something happened in Nashville this past weekend. Yeah, it did. It was epic. I was there. No, I'll say it was epic. I'm trying to remember. Oh, I just remembered what it was. Yeah, Florida.

Florida won the SEC championship. Yeah, and while that happened, the Florida baseball team got swept by a little place called Tennessee. So all the ball fans out there, they're cheering, Zach. They're cheering now. So anyway, my son, my remaining single son. Oh, that's right. I was hoping to hear this story. Oh, wow.

Love is in the air. Oh, I heard it. That was the thing. But the reason I felt like... he's never looked more like you. I saw the picture and he looks just like you. I'm sure he'll appreciate that. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, it was something, you know. He's in love, you're saying? Is that what you're telling us? Yeah, he's in love. He popped the question. He proposed and we had these storms come through and I'm mindful that a lot of people lost their life.

Yes, it was a bad one. So our hearts and prayers go out to them. But we were, that was kind of the backdrop for this. So, you know, my place got hit by a tornado a year ago, and it's still not livable. We tried it. No, Cole lives there. But, you know, if you're a single guy, it's a camp, I guess. Because half of my house is gone.

And the other half, they've kind of, you know, duct taped. So Missy cleaned it all up because the proposal was going to happen there, which, Cole was like, you know, hey, he calls his girlfriend. So you knew this is going down. We knew this was going. Everybody knew except his girlfriend. It was a surprise. Her family was coming up from parts unknown.

And they knew about it. Well, yeah, this was a surprise. Because he had already asked them for. Oh, yeah, everybody knew about this. But her. Okay, I got it. I didn't know how this thing was going down. And which I realized during the process, my son is.

way more romantic than me or pretty much any guy. You know, that's a low bar. It is. It is. No bar. So, but then we had to move everything up because the storm, we're looking at the radar, you know. Oh, right, because there's another, yeah. Well, the wind was blowing 40, 50 miles an hour during the night.

Missy had cleaned the house, the remaining part as well. But when we walked in, you know, we, we, we, I, my daughter and I flew into Nashville. And, long story. And Missy was already there because the anticipation boy, just, oh, I mean, this was like. Women love this. This was like opening day of duck season for all the females. There are shows you don't know about them, and I vaguely know about them that are built on this premise. The entire season is about the proposal, all leading to this moment.

Yeah, one of my best friends told me before I went, he said, you're going to have to be real mindful of the situation. that you're in there. I did my best. But the bad thing was... That's a good friend, telling you, not too much. Just, just when you think of something funny. Let me see, clean this place up.

I go out there, you know, and we had met somewhere else when I landed. And, oh, we all went to a kind of a little private restaurant thing at some golf place or whatever. And I actually met an excellent human being. He's an NFL football player and a believer. So that was good. And so when we get to our little home, Missy goes in there, opens the first drawer.

I'm not sure why she opened the drawer, just right there in the kitchen, and a mouse about four inches long just jump straight up in front of her face. That's why I said it felt like an episode. I mean, how does this happen? Well, you know, Missy doesn't do critters. Because reality TV, that's something you would have killed for

to happen naturally. Oh, shit. We just lost it. And I think it was all the drama. And now she's face to face with the beast. Which I thought it was kind of funny, you know. It's very funny. But I looked around.

Not so much to her. Saw a few droppings here and there. I was like... From Missy or the mouse? She said, no, from... Oh, the mouse. Yeah. I thought you miss you was really funny.

We have an epidemic. Remember that time I told you the story on this podcast? Well, what's happened is I eradicated that problem. in our storage room. Oh, well, they just moved. With the two giant buckets of dead rash? Oh, yeah. I remember that's true.

They just moved over. And now, because everything on my hill's gone, all the woods are going. Every, every, every, you're the only structure on the. Yeah. They've all moved, and it's not just that. So in fact, well, now the wind's blowing. They got all this temporary roof and, you know, all kind of things to keep the water out of what's remaining. When we try to go to sleep and, you know, we have a little fan that, that works as a sound,

barrier so you can sleep. It, when I woke up, because I dozed out, but then I woke up because I was dreaming that I was in a rocket ship coming through the Earth's atmosphere. And then I realized it's the 50 mile in our wind on the house. It was undoable. So I finally eased back to sleep. And then, you know, I went Jack Elam where my, one of my eyes opened because I realized there's something crawling on me.

And it's in a region that you don't want things crawling. Oh, boy. And so I just, you know, and I never, I didn't realize at the time when it was, but I thought I had killed it. And so then I went and tried to get some sleep, but it was pretty miserable. And so the next morning when we got up, which I might have got two or three hours, Missy got less than that, there was a dead beetle. When I got up, it was just a dead, like a beetle.

Yeah. Crawling up my leg. I mean, the missy said, I can't take it anymore. So we moved. We had a company move. We had a camp out at Reed and Brighton's with the three grandkids. Yeah, it's been so.

Which actually, based on the night we had had, it was like we were staying in some nice resort. Swanky resort. What's a few kids hollered. Exactly. So anyway, Cole, he did the proposal out at the farm. He had decorated the porch, you know. And then we met up with the family, which we had never met.

And when she walked in, she pulled up, which she knew when she pulled up because she saw all her family's vehicles. And so wasn't that, like, that surprise was she wanted. And let's face it, she's been waiting for this probably a while because they know when things, they can anticipate. Well, they've been dated about, what, two years? A year and a half? A couple of years.

You know when they actually met Jason Missy for the first time, Zach, you and I were there. When was it? At the K-Love Awards. Kay-Love Awards. That was the first time that she met Jason Missy was that night. Oh, I thought she met Cole. Yeah, okay.

No, they had already been dating. I felt bad about that because, you know, when you're there, we were presenting and all that. It was like, hey, how are you doing? I mean, that was it. It was just, well, only had a minute. But, oh, she's a, she's just, I mean, high quality, right off the bat. Human being.

But when she came in, you know, they had this sign, and I looked at it, I read it. It said love is in full bloom. I just thought, wow. That's why your friend told you to just be quiet. It's a phrase that I've never used. I've never used nor seen. Something tells me, something tells me. Something tells me that Cole did not come up with that sign that he had.

No, I think that was Brighton. But, uh, yeah. So look, the backstory, so the C story was Reed had gone to get the cake. That would be the name of this episode with something twisted to duck. Yeah, but Reed had gone to get the cake. So Reed's got three kids, three, two, and one. He has the kids. He goes and picks the cake.

I mean, gets all the kids out eat because, you know, Brighton's making the home. Is this the B story? The meeting was at Reed and Brighton's. No, this is the C story. Okay. We have the battle at the hill. So that would have been the A story. Oh, yeah.

Then we have the engagement. Well, no, the engagement was A story. Yeah. And then the C story is Reed going, and he's the Aaron boy. So folks, for those of you wondering, this is how you produce an episode. This is it. This is how it happens. Organically.

This is making the saucers. So Reed goes and gets the cake. You know, you have one job. You go get the cake. But you have three small kids. I see where this is going. What a camera in there. Put a camera.

Reed goes in on loads of kids. He goes in there, he gets the cake. Well, he puts the cake in between the two car seats. In between the two kids. So look, he gets back, you know, gets out, no problem. You know, everything's going. So now they had the cake. They popped the top on the cake.

cake and it looks like Freddie Kruger has just scraped all the eye it's just it's fingerprints and uh because the the only dirty fingerprints those kids the only thing they would draw in two toddlers that's the only thing that would draw them in at the deepest level was a beautiful cake well here's after the investigation and the question of how did did you not wonder why our three year old had All this icing everywhere. And look, so sneakily that the two-year-old didn't even realize it happened. Snickly? Sneakily.

Yeah, look it up. Look it out. It's a word. It's a great scrabble word. It's got the K, all seven letters, whatever. So, you attach your seven letters to the S. That's a full way. If you get that on it.

That's why you've got to be careful with Robertsons because the, the, the, the, the. You want to challenge it? I'm going to challenge it? No, I will never, I would never challenge you. I took it as a challenge. So look, if it is a word, you'd lose your turn. I lose my turn.

Oh, I know it's a word. You just lost your turn in a furtive or sly way. Do you want to challenge furtive while we're at it? No, I'm going to, I'm going to yell. I yield my position. I won. Jay's wins. So, yeah, so she had,

she had destroyed the cake. So Reed had to go get another cake, like right before the arrival. Now we have drama. There's storms. But then they get there and, Reed, I mean, a cold. When they walked in, though,

it was the line by his fiancé now. She said, I'm so happy. I looked around. Every woman was, peers were streaming down their faces. I thought it was incredible. I thought, where are the cameras? I mean, just streaming.

When he actually asked her this? No, no. They had already had. They had their little deal. She just walked in and said, I'm so happy, you know, because it was like all the family. Yeah. And I looked around, I was like, every woman was just pouring tears out.

I was just shocked by that. And so then they told the story on the storms arising. and he gets down on one knee and proposes. And for five minutes, the sky's part of the sun. Oh, boy. Literally. They said this happened. And I was like somebody's the Jay Storyteller is what it sounds like.

Well, then we all kind of gave a few words of wisdom, gathered up, you know, and then got to know the new family. New in-laws. Reed had gotten the new cake in time, you know. It was. Oh, so he did get a new cake? Well, he had to go get a new cake. Yeah, yeah.

Well, we were actually, when we were pulling up, he was pulling out. There was a car behind me. So I was like, hey, you know, I'm not going to hold up traffic. He just rolled his winning down, just standing there. Because he was angry that his daughter had destroyed. And I was like, well, why would you put the cake in between the two cars? You realize somebody was like, Dad, you sounded when you said that, why would a man put a cake in between two toddlers?

Did you not know what was going to happen? Exactly. So that's what I did. It was love was in the air. Did you cry, Jay's? Did you shed a tear? I mean, I got a little... Or Clem?

What do you call it? I mean, I was a little like, wow, this is a little tingly, I guess. Because I was like, okay, because I've asked him before. I was like, you know, so where are we at in this thing? Oh, it was a little bit of a slow mover. He doesn't do anything quickly. And he said, we're good. So I thought, well, I tried.

Missy's like, talk to him. Make the move. Let's go. I was like, I talked to him. He said, we're good. Anyway, that was fun. Did Mia cry? They were all crying now.

They all cried. It was incredible. So it just shows you the, you know, as a... Now you see why these shows, Zag, are popular with the... Everything leading up to the big proposal. Of course, those are, I don't know how real those are, but this was the real deal. So this would have been a fantastic episode. It was a nice moment, you know, and we've just, you know, our lives are so busy and it was just a nice.

But you know, you mentioned an interesting thing about, because we talked about marriage and weddings and John, we were in John, too. The idea of two families coming together and what you gain by that is you don't necessarily think about that. I mean, your kids are in love and they're beginning a life together, but you're also incorporating a whole other, wing of a forever family and folding it into your family. That's a powerful thing. Well, it was more weird for them, their family, because they had watched Doug Dynne's show, yeah. So I just thought in my mind, can you believe these people were watching this show one time

and just if maybe somebody having a thought? Yeah. What if, you know, our daughter marries one of these people? I mean, you know, it's like horrifying. And now it's a reality, so you're like... You're trying to let them know it's not as scary as it. It got more awkward than that. So after all the festivities and all that,

they actually put on Duck, somebody, put on Duck Dynasty, and it put three episodes on. And I thought, I can't believe this worked. I watched three episodes. And I thought, what, what? How did this catch on? It was kind of shocking to me that that worked. People watched it.

So that was my take on that. Sorry to be a Debbie Downer. I just, I didn't get it. Well, people love it. They do. Zach, did you have anything interesting before we get to our study? Well, I will say this. By the way, before you tell your story,

Mitch just mentioned NFL. You told the story about meeting the HUD secretary. Is it Taylor? Secretary Taylor, I think is his name? Turner. Scott Turner. Scott Turner. And you never said anything about that he played in the NFL.

Oh, he was a baller. Well, I mean, how do you leave that out of your story? I just saw him do an interview, and he was talking about he played at the University of Illinois. He was a wide receiver. He switches his senior year to cornerback and winds up playing for three or four teams and then NFL at cornerback, which is an incredible story. He incorporates that into the idea of change because he's trying to change the attitude about HUD.

But, I mean, it was so interesting. And I was like, how did Zach miss this for the podcast? You never said a word about it. You know, let me talk. I wanted to tell you that part of it. But I could get a word in edgewise. You came out with a word. With a word that was so...

You would just unsneakily. You got it. You got to let me talk. I mean, but yeah, he wants to come duck hunting. I did tell him this. You tell us that. I want to come duck hunting with you guys. I want to eat some soul food, which I had to get him to define soul food.

Because I said, how deep you want to go on the soul food? Turn up greens. Yeah, he's good with that level. What he's not good with is the hoghead cheese or anything like that that granny used to eat? That was too far for him. What in the world's wrong with hoghead cheese? That's what I said. If you were to cut me, hoghead cheese would use that.

I mean, that's part of the DNA here. Well, what's funny is my buddy just got back from New Orleans, and he went to a very high-end restaurant down there, and guess what was on the menu? Okay, cheese. It's now made its way up the upper echelon. All the poor people food that we ate growing up is now delicious. Delicacies at high-end restaurants.

But I said, if you come duck cutting, you know, there's a story of Apollinger. politician Dick Cheney going bird hunting and shot somebody in the face. I said, I've never been. But he does have a Benelli shotgun. So I said, well, I'll clear it with Jace. And there may be. We'll get y'all blind.

We'll set y'all up about 150 yards from us. You can't do any damage. No, he said y'all. He says, I think he's putting me in the. Yeah, you're good. I'll be on the premise. You get to go with the secretary. Well, here's the thing I do want to say, though, in all seriousness.

I want to tell you guys how thankful I am that the conversation has elevated from a snake-like poop to someone getting engaged. I feel like our cold-opies got in. Well, that started because Maddie told us that now that's one of our more popular episodes ever. I knew it was just because on my way back to Nashville, we drove. And every outhouse, penthouse, townhouse, townhouse. Henn House. Henn House. Everywhere I stopped, that was the number one conversation.

I've gotten much emails. I was like, well, y'all been listening to the podcast. So they want me to tell it again. I was like, go watch the podcast. You got to watch the episode. I'm trying to get home. You can't recreate certain things. You just got to listen, which is fantastic.

Lisa and I were on our way home from Baton Rouge. We got here last time about 1130, and we stopped and did a, I did a little mini, Part of my story of how I came to Christ at a go-tale ministries campaign. They had one in Denham Springs, which is just north of Baton Rouge. And it was great. The thing was packed days. And so I asked me what to introduce me. I said, well, I'm the oldest Robertson, and I love LSU.

And that's about all you need to know in a setting like that. And when they said that, the whole crowd just cheered, you know, because we're 10 miles north of Baton Rouge. So I was fired up. I only spoke for 15 minutes, which is not much for me, but it was fantastic. So I know a lot of people who came to Christ last night, so that was really, really good. You all ready to get to John 3? Let's do it. All right.

So we left off at kind of the tail end of this Nicodemus conversation. I think we're ready to move into the next text. Was there anything else you all wanted to cover it? Well, we never said anything about when he got down and said, this is the verdict. That's in 19. Yeah, which is big when he says that. Well, I mean, there's like a court-ream field to a lot of this where, like, you're making the case. John's making the case for Jesus.

And he put it in a condemnation salvation context, right? Well, and he also said that, you know, he focused on the positive for God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. That's 17. I think that's a key thing to remember. And he says that because in 18, he says, whoever does not believe stands condemned already. So the idea is you don't have to condemn the world. The world's already condemned by their sinful behavior.

Well, it's just God is not mean. He's not a bully. You know, a lot of people when they picture God, they're like, well, he's up there, you know, ready to just, well, it's just when I was a kid, that's what I thought. Yeah. The all-seeing eyes just waiting to catch you and zap you. Well, right.

Right. So I did want to mention this before we talked about the verdict, is this phrase that we did back in chapter one, and I didn't mention it then. The idea of the one and only or the begotten is what the King James says, son. The Greek word there is monogenes, mono meaning one. And it means in Greek it was the eldest. It was the eldest and the only son.

So in other words, the eldest son always got a double, blessing in the Jewish because he's supposed to take care of the family, wants the patriarch. He becomes the new patriarch. But he's also the only son. So he's the oldest and the only, which makes him the sole heir of heaven and earth. But what about these people, though? I'm going to have to give you an argument. So some would say, look, so there's a phrase used in the Old Testament.

Zach, feel free to enter this, because I'm not sure I know all this. But when it uses the sons of God, like Genesis 6, the sons of God. Right. I mean, and they use, which they say it's like part of the... Heavenly realm. Well, the Heavenly Family. Yeah, the Divine Council. That was a phrase of it.

They read Psalm 82, Psalm 89. So it's like the spiritual family. And one of the verses they use, to say, so when is his only son, or like maybe there's something unique. Because they use this Hebrews, this is off the top of my head. But when you said that,

that popped into my brain because I think a lot of the spiritual warfare people say, wait a minute. Hebrews 1117, by faith, Abraham, when God test him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received a promise was about to sacrifice,

he is one and only son. But Abraham actually had other sons. Right. And I have it was his only son with Sarah. And remember they couldn't have kids. It was. I was just bringing that out. I'm not sure what, how to balance that.

Well, I know one thing you can say, and you can use it in the same case with Abraham, is one thing we know is that there was something uniquely different about Jesus for this phrase to describe him. So he was different from any other sons of the heavenly. Exactly. That's kind of where I was going with it because I think, you know, it's like, well, we believe there's one God.

Now he has three persons, but it's one God. And you think Father, Son, Holy Spirit, as unique. So, Zach, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean, that's a, the Genesis 6 passage, I think, yeah, it opens up a whole other paradigm that I honestly have not grown up thinking about until recently, mainly because I've read that Michael Heiser book, seeing the Unseen Realm. No, seeing them, those two different books. And you're talking about the sons of God, sons of men, passages.

What is the name of that book? The Unseen Realm. Yeah. I haven't read it, but I've heard people talk about it. Yeah, it's kind of weird because there's some parts about it. Like, I think he's on to something for sure. I mean, obviously, he's a lot smarter than I am and well studied. But I don't know, some of it, some of it, I don't know if I would translate particularly in Genesis chapter 1, verse 26, when he says, let us make man an hour image in the image of God.

He created them both male and female. I've always interpreted that to be a passage that's a Trinitarian passage of the Trinity speaking. He says not. He says that's the divine counsel. Yeah, I probably disagree with him on. that, but I think there is something to the spiritual family, because I believe they're made in the image of God with a special function, just like we were, which is, I think is one of the main points of the Bible that no one ever talks about, that we're made to be imagers of God.

We have a job. Image bearers, we have a function. I mean, look, I just give you a crazy illustration. I am so frustrated with today's appliances. You know, I redid my house, and all these appliances, I kept having to replace. So when it came to the refrigerator, remember those podcasts, maybe a year ago? I mean, this thing, state of the art, industrial refrigerator has the capability of a camera inside of it. So you can be at the grocery store and, like, you know, look and see what's in your fridge.

I mean, just splurged. I said, I don't want to ever buy another refrigerator. I buy the greatest refrigerator on the planet. So we splurged on it. Because I kept having to replace them. Well, guess what? It's not in my house right now. Mm-hmm.

You know why? Because after a few months, it started going, like the most annoying sound ever. And you'd have to go in and push the alarm button. finally, I was like, babe, call the repairs. It's going off for a reason. Because every time it would get to 40 degrees, the alarm would go on. Now, there's a reason.

So this whole boy comes. He looks like sigh. Identical. When he walked in, I thought, hey, and I was going to say sigh, but it wasn't Si. It was a doppelgare. It was a refrigerator repairman. Can you imagine?

The size of refrigerator repairment? And I was like, look, dude, this thing's brand new. Still under warranty. He said, that's the good news. And I said, I don't understand what it's brand new. And he's like, they want to save the planet. He said, they're all junk. This was this guy.

That's what he done. And he works on it. Yeah, and I said, well, what should I have bought? He said, the cheapest one you can find. The oldest one you could. Well, the old ones, you know. Or they say destroying the planet. But it hit me in that moment.

I thought, I have something that's brand new and it won't function. It won't do its job. So you see the spiritual application I'm making here. When you're brand new, at some point you realize I'm to be an imager. I have a function that God prepared for me to do. That's the difference. So, I mean, I think it's important. You have used the word in the past as vocation.

Yeah. And I like that word too because I think it'll, I think what happens if you don't see what we're talking about here is that it does kind of change the entire narrative, in my opinion, of the whole story. And the way I would say that would be you'll tend to, if you divorce it or kind of separate out the whole story of a cosmic battle of the sons of God and some of those sons of God fell. And some of those sons of God came into the women and created Nephilim and all these other species and all these other are not almost a subhuman, but not human, fully human. And there is like this, the Genesis 11 that whenever God, you know, he has the Tower of Babel and he creates nations for the first time. Because nations didn't exist until Genesis 11. Well, that was a result of man essentially trying to work his way to God, trying to build a tower. God confuses everybody's language.

He creates nations. He pulls a portion of that nation, of those nations for himself, Israel. That's Genesis 12. And it's like to me, it's like this really beautiful. narrative of scripture that that God is building out and there's this battle but there's also this plan of God to bring his people back to Eden. So it's that Edenic vision. I love all that. I think that's like that's the picture of the kingdom. And if you kind of divorce that out, you'll end up reading a lot of the New Testament and you'll just see a piece of it. And you'll say like you get

to like the book of Romans and you read everything through the lens of what's called satiriology, meaning salvation. Like, what do I got to do to be saved? What I got to do? Am I saved? Am I saved? And they become this obsession with being saved. And you almost forget, like, wait, what do I?

God's calling us into an interactive life with him. And like, it's more than just getting saved from, you know, going to hell. I mean, like, the Bible is way more than that. The story is way more than that. So I think it does matter to have this discussion. I think it has a lot of implications on how we read the, rest of scripture. Yeah. And I mean, to go back to our point, I think the difference in the son of God is all these other sons of God, if you want to use that phrase. Because it is

translated. It's in there a lot. Yeah. Yeah. They were created and Jesus was the one doing the creating. I mean, you said, well, what about when he became flesh? Well, he became flesh. He's versatile. Exactly. But he is the creator, which is why I think John makes that point when he says, through him, John 1-3, all things were made without him, nothing was made that has been made. But I do think there is a heavenly host. There's another phrase that's there, and I think they had a choice just like we do.

And so. And they didn't, they weren't light. Light that creates light. I mean, Jesus was that same text in John 1, and he brings it up again here. I like that idea. You brought up the idea of verdict. I did a sermon a long time ago where I painted a picture of a courtroom and is what I call the no way to lose because Satan is your accuser.

He's called that in several different texts. So he's the one trying to accuse you. So here you are at your little table. over here on the side, and you're like, oh, man, Satan's accusing me. But your defense attorney, your advocate, is Jesus. You know, that's in First John. So all these different pictures of him. He's also, though, your star witness, because he's a witness that you now are in him.

So he's on the stand for you. But you look up at where the judge sits, and there's the father is the ultimate judge, but he says he's brought this son to save the world. so he's even your judge and then you look over at the jury box and there's 12 Jesus is over there. It's like there's no way you lose in this courtroom of Satan

because Jesus is every phase of your representation. And so I just love the idea that the verdict is in. Yeah, it's a really... I heard a guy say at one time like Jesus is the judge and he's sitting behind the podium or the pulpit and he's like, how do you plea? And then he gets... he literally stands up and he goes and he walks around and sits by the defendant,

which would be me. And he says, I plead, my client pleads not guilty. He walks back up to the judge seat by what grounds when it comes back. It's like same guy going back and forth. It's like, man,

we're in kind of great shape, you know, that Jesus is all of it, you know. And there are several verses I don't have in front of me because, but there are verses that show every step of that. If you put it in. Black 17 says he'll be,

he's going to judge the world. Right. And then there's other. verses that say he's he mediates for us and there's other verses that talk about he advocates for us there's yeah well i was just yeah i was just making the point that i mean when you look at the sons of god and the son of god i mean it's to me it's like god god loves family he has a celestial family with jobs to do and he has a human family and same thing yeah i mean we are to image our creator. But that's why there's a lot of obscure passages that we never read. I was just

looking about, I was trying to find this. And First Kings 22, you can, this will be, I wouldn't use this as a morning divo, but if you just want to say, huh, there's a, there's this weird conversation about these kings trying to consult with prophets to see, you know, if God is in their favor or what to do. And just to give you a thumbnail of it, I was actually talking about this with my assistant on my events. And she was like, that's in the Bible? I was like, yeah. And it's First King 22, and this King Jehoshaphat,

he was like wanting to get a prophecy, but he's, and I'll just pick it up in verse 18, but he says, the king of Israel said to Jehoshaph, But didn't I tell you that he never prophesies anything good about me, but only bad, which is funny? They're like, let's see what the Lord's prophet. And he's like, I don't want to get him because every time he tells me something, there's nothing good about me. And then this, I'm going to say that, Macaiah, continue, this is 19. Therefore, hear the word of the Lord.

And watch what he says. I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the host of heaven. here's the heavenly host, standing around him on his right and on his left, which Revelation uses the same kind of imagery. And the Lord said, who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there? So the Lord's like wanting to take Ahab out here. But he's like, it's not like God doesn't know what's going on,

but he uses this, if you want to use Zach's word, counsel for a conversation of these spirits. And look, one suggested this and another that. So it's like some kind of heavenly conversation, which they have a job to do. We're assuming with humans and, I guess, from a distance. But so finally, a spirit came forward. Now, this is this vision of the heavenly hosts

that this fellow is describing, stood before the Lord and said, well, I'll entice him. and by what means the Lord asked, I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets, he said. Now you're thinking right here, what? But watch what he says. You will succeed in enticing him, said the Lord, go and do it.

So the Lord put a lying spirit in the mouths of all those prophets of yours. the Lord has decreed disaster for you. So basically the story goes, they go out and say, hey, the Lord said, go down here and you're good. That's what is probably, but it wasn't true.

Right. I mean, there's so many things to, but just the idea that this story comes up is just because we've never seen the heavenly hosts and, you know, these sons of God. But we're familiar with angels. And, I mean, there's a whole spiritual world out there. especially when you get to books like Ephesians that says,

you know, our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but the rulers, the powers, the authority, spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. So it is a thing. Yeah. But what is unique about Jesus is he is, in essence, God, becoming a human. The scary thing about that, Jace, is that we tend to mark up. originalize that realm when we think, oh, somebody heard something from a spirit and we're like, no, you didn't. That's your own mind. The scripture would teach other why. There are real, like, powers that are at play that are actually shaping people and whispering to people. Now, we can over spiritualize things, too. I think that's a danger. CS. Lewis talked about this, that, you know, the devil can trick you into thinking there are no devils or that everything's the devil's fault. And the Bible says pretty clearly that we're also dragged away to wait and

highest by our own evil desires. But that that passage that you've mentioned, what it testifies to me is, is that there is, like, there's real forces at play here. There's no doubt. Real things happening that are real entities. And so I don't like that. It scares me. Well, it should scare you. I mean, it should be reversed. I think you're right. I think we've missed an important part of what Jesus's death and resurrection did because we're so atonement-centered. We're like, it's all about the sins. It's all about the fall of man.

But it's also about disarming and ultimately defeating all the celestial powers that have made their decision and are opposed to God and are who, you know, a lot of them have been hurled to the earth and are doing mischief. I mean, and I think this theme comes up. I didn't just bring it up out of the blue. When he gets to the end to John 3, and he's talking about this light and darkness, and when he was talking about this heavenly versus the earthly,

well, who is described as earthly? Well, think about when it says earthly wisdom in James 3, and it says earthly, worldly wisdom. James 3.15, talking about, watch what it says in verse 14. If you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it, deny the truth. Such wisdom does not come from heaven,

but is earthly, unspiritual. And look at that. Of the devil. Yeah. Right. So that's why when you get to passages like Colossians too, and he talks about we've been given fullness in Christ, and he talks about Christ cutting off the sinfulness.

nature. Remember, you know, in verse 12, and he likes it to circumcision, you know, having been raised with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God or the working of God, he raised from the dead. And then it's talking about sins when it says, when you were dead in your sins, God made you alive, he forgave us all our sins. But what's this pivot when he says, having canceled the written, code with its regulations that was against us. This is Colossian 214. He took it away, nailing it to the cross, and then watch this phrase.

Having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them triumphing over them by the cross. Well, who's he talking about? He's talking about all these beings and their powers, yeah, that have been hurled down to the earth and even the evil one who is deemed Lord of the dead, the realm of the dead, which is why you have Hebrews 214, which Jesus' work on the cross, remember what it says, destroyed his work, who held all these humans in slavery by their fear of death. Well, the one thing that you see there consistently is there's a link to the going zone in the

heavenly realm and the going zone in the earthly realm, and they don't know either. That's a big point. Which is really interesting. I think this also gets to the conversation that we started a kind of vocation. Because if you listen to the language in John, I want to read, pass it out of John, then I go to Ephesians and make the correlation to our vocation. But it says in John 319 that this is the judgment. He defines what the judgment is. Here's the judgment.

This is interesting. The judgment is that light has come into the world. The judgment is that the light has come, and it's exposing. And people love the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.

So there's the language of vocation, but to get even more specific, What Paul says, this is actually the vocation of the church, is to live in the light. And listen to the purpose that Paul says that he says, I want you at the church to do this. This is in Ephesians 3-7. Of this gospel, I was made a minister according to the gift of God's grace, which was given to me by the working of his power. To me, though I am very least of all the saints, this grace was given to preach to the Gentiles, the unsearchable riches of Christ. Here's the language of light. and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for the ages in God who created all things,

so that through the church, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God might be made known to the rulers and authority in the heavenly places. So you think about a vocational calling. If you want to elevate the vocational calling of the church, according to Paul here, It's not just that we can get saved and get out of hell free card and go to heaven one day. We actually have a vocation of making known to the rulers and the authorities and the heavenly places to make known to them the manifold wisdom of God. So they don't know, Al, to your point, but God has revealed it and is rebuilding it progressively to the church who then makes that known to that council, to that other realm. And that's a wild thought. Well, and just to clear that up with what Jason was talking about back in that vision in First Kings,

it's not like it kind of get the picture like, oh, well, God didn't really know what was going to happen. He's like working it out. But he already knew everything because the prediction and prophecy of Ahab's demise had already been told much further back. And the prophecy was the dogs, this is gross, but this is biblical, the dogs will lick up your blood. out of the chariot. And so the rest of that story that Jason was telling, there's, you know, Ahab's riding way behind everybody else in a chariot thinking he's safe,

but one guy, let's go, one arrow, and that thing goes through the air and just happens to find its way in between his armor sheath. It just so happens. Just so happens. And then, look, he slumps over. The chariot just goes back to Home Base.

And guess where Home Base was? The same place Jezebel fell out the window. and the dogs did their damage to her. So the prediction had already been there, your evil deeds will find you out. So, you know, God knew, but in the workings of the heavenly host, they were still working it out.

Well, yeah, and let me add this one thing to it to tie this back to where we started in Genesis 6 and Genesis 11. If you think about what's happening here in Ephesians 3, that through the church, the manifold wisdom of God is made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This would be the divine counsel

and anyone in that round that God created. The church is making it. What's he talking about here, though? He's talking about the Gentiles being included into salvation with the Jews, into the kingdom with the Jews. So it's going all the way back to Genesis chapter 11 when there was the dividing

of the nations. Now all the nations are coming back through Christ and through the spirit. All the people groups are coming back in. So when N.T. Wright talks about this verse, he mentioned the word, the manifold wisdom of God. He said that's a good way to translate that is the kind of the colorful expression, kind of the beauty of diversity in the kingdom. It's all this colorful representation of the kingdom. And so I think it is interesting that like our vocation is not simply the atonement of our

own personal sin, although it is partly that. It's also that we are participating in the kingdom as a whole, as a people, as a group, as a collection, as a collective, you know, this is happening together. And so we get to participate in something bigger than ourselves. And I just, I think that's so beautiful to think that God has invited us into his story in such a profound way. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. At the end of the day, it goes back about God being relational, which is why he is. three-dimensional, when you trace that back and say, okay, God wanted to use other beings, he is relational. He creates them in the celestial world and in the human world, and he uses

those relationships to help promote his image. That's right. And so, I mean, that's why Jesus came. That's why he's saying this. He didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it. And this results in God dwelling with other beings in a loving relationship. And we talk about the eternal life experience. We always relate to each other in resurrected bodies.

But one of the benefits is going to be we're going to get to meet all these beings. Oh, exactly. That's going to be pretty, I mean, that's going to take up, you know, a lot of our exciting times of eternity is just meeting these other beings. So, all right, we're out of time. We'll pick it up next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts.

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