Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1060 | Jase Got Conned at 9 Years Old & Miss Kay Might Be the Culprit!

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

Lisa feels she has a lot in common with the “Woman at the Well” story in John 4, such as spending years feeling guilt, shame, and fear until she met Jesus. Lisa is proud that God is now using her past to help others find peace and healing. Al is surprised by the grandiose schemes quiet, shy Jase plotted back when they were kids, including sending his hard-earned money off to buy shrinking powder to use on the rest of the Robertson family. In this episode: John 3, verses 19-21; John 4, verses 3-42 --- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We've added my favorite guest on the Unashamed podcast, my beautiful bride, Lisa. Welcome to Unashamed. Thank you. One plus one is one. That's exactly right.

And synergy makes it even better. So tell folks how you're doing because a lot of people prayed for you last year. I don't know when's the last time you've been on, but it's been a minute. but you're doing amazing. I am. I'm doing so good. God's been so good to me and healed my body.

And now I just, you know, I'm doing so good that I think I'm going to have to get on that diet with you. How do you feel with Al? I mean, you've got a new husband. I mean,

what's that? I mean, he looks like a different man. Can't take my hands off of him. Oh, yeah. Oh, here we go. Slow down. I'm not.

Does it bother me? This is what married people do. So, yeah, it's clear. They're all good. Well, people say that they're like, you know, why you talk about sex? And I was like, God invented that.

He's the architect. As a pleasure for us. Yeah. As married couples. And to fill the earth. Yeah, that's how we all got here. I mean, every one of us got here. I think everyone needs that reminder.

Make a public service announcement. What I was going to say, I'll tell you a fascinating story about my childhood. Just this popped into my head. Because I feel like I'm around people who are shrinking. Is this a segue or this like this? This is not a segue. This is all the time. We're leaving one area.

Yeah, we're going down to. Last time, the last time I was conned, I was nine years old. And I highly doubt that. I bet you've probably been conned since then. Hear the story. Last time that I knowingly was con. guy. Back in those days, we used to get mail that had all these ads and all. And so, you know, I'm living out in the middle of the woods with my parents trying to find themselves. And so I saw

this ad on the back, and it was a shrinking powder. And the picture of it was a boy walking down the street, and he had his parents and his dog in his pocket. I thought, wow. So I saved up $9.95 and ordered a can of that shrinking powder. But the image was you can make everyone smaller. I just thought, boy, this. Were you going to shrink mom and dad and the dog? I was shrinking everybody. But you know what?

It never came. It never came? It never. They didn't even send you the taboo pattern. I don't know it did not work. It never came. It never came. I sent $9.95 plus shipping.

Did you sing cash? I don't remember. Well, he had to. Nine years old. He didn't have a check. If you sent cash, that might be why. Remember, I sent it, and I spent the next three months going down there getting the mail. Or maybe if you gave it to Kay, she might have just sent it and get that money.

That actually got spent. There's a lot of money when you were nine years old. I mean, with inflation. Yeah, exactly. So when y'all said that, it reminded me that I was like, everyone's, shrinking around me. There was a time of my life where I really tried to purchase that and be in control shrinking powder. I was going to ask you, how did you go from what we were talking about to shrinking powder? But now, I'm glad you said. You see how you made the leave. I say, yeah, I was wondering

how the mind of Jace works. That helps me understand you more. They never sent it. They just took the money because I probably sent cash. No, mom got that. She, she blew it. That never. That never. That never I never got in the mail. Well, you're uncovering childhood trauma. Your mother was the perpetrator of the fraud, of the con job. Mom never met a $10 bill. She didn't like that. You're a con by your own mom.

I have to confess, we've been talking about light and darkness, and there's a part of me when Jesus comes back. And, you know, there's going to be a divide. You're either with the winning team or the losing or you're not. Everybody gets judged. And I was going to, I just, part of me has thought, all right, hey, let's, that's new heaven, new earth, let's live. And it's like, wait a minute, I'd like to know where that 9.95, where is that dude? Let's see.

Or that. Did he make it? Did he repent? Yeah, exactly. Do you think your mom could have potentially been the person that took the money from you? No, because I checked the mail every day. I'm saying she could have intercepted. No, I put it in the mail.

Oh, you did it. Yeah. Well, I wasn't going to tell them that I was buying shrinking powder to shrink them and put them in my pocket while. Because they were going in the pocket. I wasn't trying to hurt them. I just wanted to make them a little bit smaller. It's funny because when Jace was young at this age, Zach,

I always thought he was just kind of quiet and kept to himself. I didn't know he had grandiose schemes going to shrink the entire family. He had a lot work in there, you know, in his mind the whole time. I just thought he was a quiet kid. I didn't know. Well, we're talking about like these influences in the demonic realm, you know, that are working against humanity. I mean, I have to think at nine years old, there was some not a benevolent.

He wanted to control us. No, this sounds like to be. Yeah, this is diabolical. I'm going to confess on me. I can't divulge what I'm fixed to divulge. I have to be careful. We may have to edit this, Maddie. Eddie gets your finger on the button.

I was reached out to, there was kind of a supernatural phenomenon going on. And through a long process, I was contacted to be a part of a teen that goes in and address whether this is supernatural activity. And now, at first, y'all are thinking, this is crazy. I actually said, I tell you what, give me the dates. Because the person who contacted me, he's a good friend of mine. and a believer. And so I'm contemplating whether to do this because they're going to film it. And, of course, they asked me to pray for the, I guess he said, well, I'll tell you what he said.

He's like, you're one of the most spiritual people I know. And I'm not sure what I'm getting into. So will you come and, you know, whatever you want to do, pray for us, talk to us about, you know, the Bible, about, you know, What this is. So I'm thinking about doing that. What do you think? I think you should. Yeah.

Yeah. It's quite a few states away, but. Going there with the power of the Holy Spirit and check it out. I've been contacted as a supernatural advisor into something. You know what's sad? We had those fuzzy creature guys on, and now that's piqued your interest. That's what happened. Well, it didn't peak my interest.

They called me. I know. That's what I'm saying. I keep, every time I think I'm away, they pull me back in. We just had this conversation. I've been studying about it because I thought, well, worst case scenario, if there's nothing to it. Right. You know, I can give him a sermon for whatever production this is.

Well, it's like Smith used to say when he taught us, Chase, he says, some things you just take and put in your hum box. Yep, I remember that. It could be something for your hum. And if you never see me again, now you know what happened. Then we know what happened. You know what happened? Someone's shrunked. He'll be in someone's part.

pocket. How's that for a call-back? You need to leave us, they need to leave some way for us to know where you're going. That's right. In case you don't return without letting somebody know. Not that we're going to go after you. If you don't return,

we're going to assume. I have a group of men who I made a deal with one time. I gave them Jesus. They have a special set of skills in military warfare. Like the guy taken. Yeah, we made an agreement. Like if I ever get hung up somewhere, they said, we'll come get you. If I can just get to them.

Yeah, and those are guys you want to know. And a part of me, like, kind of once in, no, not too dangerous, but get into that situation just to say, hey. Ride to the rescue. I know some people with some certain skills that are special. It is nice to have some friends that you could say. If I could get a hold of them, no matter where I'm at in the world, I know that they could come get me. Yeah. Yeah.

I think that is. There's some security. Yeah. Yeah, that feels good. All right, what are we going to talk about? So here's what we got. So we had a plan laid out. But we messed up.

Perfectly crafted plan that Jay said. I went down a rabbit hole. I sabotaged the last podcast because Al said the only begotten son. I was just making the comment so I could stick it in there and we went to a whole podcast. But that's a thing. I know. People want to know about spiritual warfare. I love your rabidos.

There's a lot of verses in there. So I think we did a pretty good job. So Lisa, So we brought you on specifically because we were thinking we would get to John 4, which is the woman at the well. And you and I have done some teaching on this. And I like your insights on this woman because you share some things with her. So we're going to get there.

Well, I have an idea. All right. Do you want to do this section first? You want to do that or do we want to? Let's do a woman at the well. All right. We'll just go back. Wait a minute.

I have an idea. Look. So when we left off the back. But the back end of chapter 3 in verse 19 through 21, I do think this goes with the woman at the well. Yeah. Because I'm just going to go ahead and throw this out there. I think one of the biggest struggles she had, even though it's not directly mentioned, but once you understand the context, was shame.

Yeah. She had been shame. You agree? Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. No, at least we just stepped into her. Well, because you just, especially when you understand the culture and what she had done and where she was at, at what time. What I like about where you're going with this, and, yeah, we'll definitely transition because we just got through talking about Nicodemus.

He comes to Jesus at night. Now, we don't know, you know, you can read too much into that, but the idea was it was evident he didn't, I think, he didn't want other people to know he was checking this guy out because he wasn't sure about him. So he comes at night, basically where he's looking around. He's got a reputation. He's got a reputation. So then we get into this light and dark. But this woman to go ahead and set the stage for you, her deal is in the middle of the day.

But guess what? She's still hiding. She comes in the middle of the day because that's when she can go when other people aren't going to be. Well, that's why I wanted to tie in John 3, 19, 3, 21. Because it says this is the verdict, which I never read last time, we just left people. I know we just were hanging.

The verdict is in, and guess what? Tune in next time. This is next time. Light has come into the world, but men love darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. And obviously light is a depiction of Jesus. But people love darkness,

which I think is a, it's kind of a thought-provoking verse. love was behind this, but people love darkness. To me, that's such a transition, because it's like, for God, so love the world. Oh, it's so beautiful. But guess what? People love darkness. They love what's going out in the world and love to participate.

So then it says, everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God. So obviously that's going to, we'll read the story, but that's going to translate over to here's this woman kind of going at a time during the day before we read it where she could be alone. And then all of a sudden she has this encounter with Jesus. but what I think is kind of, it's not funny, but it's funny to me. It's like she is so transformed in the moment, which is the opposite of Nicodamus. He eventually comes around later in this story.

Right. She pretty well went from being filled with shame to going around in public saying, he told me everything I ever did. He told me everything I ever did. It's like all the things you've done is why you were filled with. shame and now she's going around just announcing it to the world so how does that happen so so before we read it babe i want you to tell why you relate because i think jesus right on the money before we read the

story that how you relate to her in this idea of shame kind of where what why does that resonate with you so much in understanding that and being in that place where you felt so ashamed you couldn't get to truth and couldn't get to light well and i think it's because um that's why that's why one of the things that the evil one uses, um, more than, almost more than anything is shame. And he uses that because,

um, because it works, I guess. But, um, you know, whenever you, um, whenever you're growing up and different things happen to you,

you know, um, especially as a child, you feel as though those things are your fault. Even if somebody, you know, takes advantage of you, whenever you're a child.

But you still have a sense of guilt there because you feel like it's your fault. And so then you keep going through your life and different things happen and it plays back on that shame and that guilt, you know, because Satan keeps bringing that up. Well, you know, you're not any good.

You remember this happened to you. So in my life, it was, you know, sexual abuse as a child. Then it was, you know, bad choices. that I made as a teenager, having an abortion, again, another darkness, you're just, that is dark. Then, you know, you get married and you feel as though maybe that's your saving grace. You know, God has sent you this person, but nothing has happened to that darkness that you've been living with for your whole life. And the darkness produces shame.

All darkness produces shame. And it's like it's a powerful. force that keeps pulling you back to the darkness, right? Every time you can begin bubbling towards light, it's just like, no, we're going to pull you back here where it's nice and dark and comfortable, and that's the place. Well, because I think one reason is that we have encounters with people, but it takes an encounter with God to change that and to get rid of that shame. You know, I mean, I'm in the Robertson family, and I'm grateful that God put me in this family.

but I'm in the Robertson family and so I've got all the influences of all of y'all y'all's wives I mean I've got all of that to pull me out of that to pull me out of that shame and that darkness but that's not what I needed because I used you as my savior for a long time but you are not what could pull me out of the shame and the darkness I had to have an encounter with Christ

and I think it's the same with this woman at the well. She went at high noon because nobody else is going to go at high noon. It's the heat of the day. It's the worst time to go and get water. And she went because she knew that. She didn't want to hear the whispers. She didn't want people looking at her. But whenever she went on this particular day,

what I love about this is that Christ didn't go to the well for water. He went to the well for this one. woman. Yeah. That is one of the most incredible stories in the Bible. It's the only in John. Yeah. And, you know, he would later say that, you know, everything Jesus did was recorded.

The world wouldn't have enough books to hold them. So there's a reason, I think this story is special, that it is shared. I mean, because the overall theme, I think, is what links God will go to to save a person. That's right. I mean, this is, she's from the wrong region. You know, there's a verse, Jews and Samaritans didn't associate. Then in their culture, men don't talk alone with women, you know, in public. And to your point, just reading the history of this,

because I really think that contributes to understanding it. So one of the social places, women would gather up where these wells. Right. Early in the day. I mean, it was kind of them. First thing in the morning. Yeah, it was like a small, great. through a women.

You know, that's why she was here by herself because of all those qualities and her life was just a mess. Yeah. You know, and even though she had been married, what was it, five times? Yeah. And she's now living with a guy

who she wasn't married to her. Right. But in their culture, well, women weren't allowed to file for a divorce. Right. So she's basically been cold five times to go with shame and you're just, because what do you walk away from saying that you're worthless and you keep getting

validated? You know, I don't want you in my life. I mean, five different times. Yeah, it's just a cast off. Yeah. But you said that before. You said, dad always had a saying, boys, you need to convert them or call them. That's exactly right.

If they're not believers in Lisa said, well, I didn't want to get called. So, you know, but unfortunately, she had the wrong lord. That's right. Which was there. Yeah, Lisa, I'm curious. if when you were in that place of shame in your life, did you recognize it as shame? Did you even have a context for it? Or was that something that had to be brought out by the Holy Spirit?

Or I'm just curious? I don't think that I knew it was shame, you know? I think it was the thought of not being good enough and being damaged property, you know, kind of like this woman. but I don't really think that I knew it was shame until God revealed that and a lot of it was guilt guilt over all the many things that I had done wrong

but the guilt and the shame is what kept me in it you know those are two of the evil ones tools that he loves to hold on to and continue to whisper in your ear about you know I was thinking about there's a opposite of event where a very intimate gathering and there was a man there who was probably in his 70s and he was a leader in the church, had a very prolific kind of like life experience behind him, very well respected. And he felt compelled at this gathering we're at to share with a group, something that had had happened to him. that he had never shared with anybody.

He said, I didn't even tell my wife this yet. He said, but I just feel a conviction from the Holy Spirit that I need to share this. And I need to unleash this burden on me. And this was a very, very mature Christian. And he said, when he was eight years old, I was molested by a family friend. And I mean, he's just weeping. This guy's like, weeping. And I'm like, and he said, I've carried this lie with me my entire life that was my fault.

and that I was somehow responsible for this abuse. And it was like at 72 years old, after walking with Christ all these years, having the Holy Spirit and leading other people to Christ, at 72 years old, he had this moment of like transformation and healing and coming to grips with that. And I just think about the nature of shame sometimes

is it doesn't manifest itself as shame in terms of our mind. But when the Holy Spirit allows us to name it, then he can deal with it. And I think that's what's going to happen here in this text that we're about to get into. We had a similar situation where a woman that had moved to Alaska

and she said the reason I went to the most remote place you can go to in the United States of America is because I've been running my whole life and she was 72. Similar age, Zach, where you were talking about and she said when she read our book and Lisa articulated these years in her case,

know, 15 years of our marriage, but even the years for that of running and the shame and how it was there, but finally coming to that place, she said, for the first time I realized the why. And she was just so both excited and then heart sick at the same time that it took that long to find it, but she found it, which was a blessing for us. And I think that's why this story resonates. I want to read it, but I do want to mention this. I think one of the reasons why Lisa and I resonate so much to it is Jesus has six. different times where he engages her in this story. And she deflects every time.

Yeah. Because she's still trying to stay. She keeps changing the stuff. She got all these different ways she does it until he finally appeals to her at the very end and she finally breaks. But let me read it. I'm going to start in verse three because we're going to go back and pick up the end of that chapter three.

But in verse three of chapter four, when the Lord learned of this, he left Judea, went back once more to Galilee. So he's on the move. And I will say this, normally every good Jew went around Samaria. They didn't go through Samaria because there was a, there's a ton of history here as to why. But it says in verse four, he had to go through Samaria. But he didn't really because everybody else went around Samaria. They wouldn't go through Samaria.

But he had to go through there to Lisa's point because he had an appointment to make. So he came to a town in Samaria called Samaria. called Sarkar, near the pot of ground that Jacob had given to his son Joseph. By the way, Joseph, his bones were actually buried here at the end of Joshua, Joshua 24. So this is a very sacred place to Jews. Jacob's well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, set down by the well. It was about the sixth hour. So it was the middle of the day, as we've already described, it's not really when they would be there.

Women would be there drawing water normally. When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, big taboo, Jews don't talk to the Samaritans, will you give me a drink? His disciples had gone into the town to buy food. There's John telling him why they weren't there. So now he's alone in talking to this one, which is another taboo. The Samaritan woman said to him, you are a Jew. And I'm a Samaritan woman, so she calls out both reasons why he shouldn't be talking to her. How can you ask me for a drink? And then John gives us the thought for Jews to not associate with Samaritans. And we could go into the history, but it's a long history of why they don't.

Verse 10, Jesus answered her. So there's the first deflection, by the way. If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water. Which, that's a mind-blower. Sir, the woman said, you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father, Jacob,

who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his flocks and herds? So there's another deflection back to what she had brought up earlier about Jacob. Jesus answered, Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, here's the money statement, indeed the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.

The woman said to him, sir, give me this water that I won't get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water. Again, she's back in the natural. She just ignores really the depth of what he said. He said, so now Jesus changed his tactics. He told her, well, go call your husband, come back. which seems random, but now we're getting into the kitchen here. I have no husband, she replied. Now he's fixing to blow her mind.

Jesus said to her, you're right when you say you have no husband. Fact is, you've had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband's. What you have said, just that is quite true. And I don't know if that's almost like a tongue-in-cheek response. Like, yeah, you're telling the truth, because you're finally now admitting where you are.

I can see you are a prophet. Our father's worshipped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem. Just think a minute about how this shame works. He just told her about why she's there at noon and not associate with anybody else. And the first thing she goes into is a deep theological question.

Well, in a place. Yeah. Which I think is going back to John 2. when they were talking about the temple. Yeah. And he was like, it's a person. You kill this, and I'll raise it up in three days. So I think that's why it's in here.

It's another deflection. So verse 21, Jesus says, believe me, woman, a time is coming, and will you worship the father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. By the way, this is a huge revelation that this is being made to this Samaritan woman. He hadn't said this yet. It's not a place. Right. You Samaritans worship what you do not know.

We worship what we do know. For salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. For they are the kind of worshippers the Father seeks. God is spirit and His worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth. Huge statement. Now the woman

Now the woman says, well, I know that Messiah called Christ is coming And when he comes, he will explain everything to us There's another deflection by the way Because she's like, well, yeah, somebody's going to explain it Yeah, let's procrastinate this. Yeah, let's just push it down the road. I think it's not, she's not acknowledging that it's him.

Exactly. And then he says, he drops the mic right here, I who speak to you, am he. And I look the Greek up, you know what it says there? What? He just says, I am. I am. I was going to say, this is another.

I am. It's an eye. He just says, I am. Yeah. Ooh. But you know, it's interesting. As you're reading that, I was thinking, and Jason was talking about it's not a place. It's not a place, which I totally agree. Because the question here, she's asking is where is the place where we go to worship, which kind of corresponds to where is the place we go to get water. And, and like, we go, we get our fill at the temple. Then we come home and then our spiritual water gets slow. So we go back to the temple. And it's like, this it's this continual back and forth and he's like no i'm gonna like the god's doing something new here he's actually going to live inside people and going back to you know he didn't quite say it like that but that is the implication yeah i mean it's it's well what what what Lisa was talking about think about when you were like when you're dealing with your shame in that moment like like if you were to like push that out it's the opposite of being one with God, it was like hiding. I mean, that's how shame kind of manifested itself.

I mean, I'm assuming that was how you felt like you didn't want to be known, right? You didn't want, because like what Phil would say? I'd never heard that part of the story, but either call them or convert them or call them. So now you're having to hide because you're like, I don't want to get called. What was that like just living in a constant state of hiding? Well, that was the two lives that were trying to, that I was trying to live. at once. What is it, Al, you say you're a double secret agent sitting on the...

But I think that's where the love of darkness comes in, because then all of a sudden, you kind of, you, it's like, what did the Morgan Freeman and the Shalshank Redemption, he was like telling, I don't remember this off the top of my head, but Mary, he was telling about the prison when first you're scared and you try to get out of it, you know, but it's like... Then these walls start to become your security. Yeah, he's like, then you depend on them. You depend on those walls.

It's like you actually love them at some point. That's right. And that's the disturbing part of our condition. And granted, it's temptation from the spiritual force that we talk about, but we convince ourselves, you know, oh, I'm smarter. I can figure this out. And you kind of love that process, you know. And he has that time.

He gets out and he's in the store working and he's bagging groceries. And he says, hey, boss, can I go to the bathroom? The guy says, you don't have to keep asking me. And then he does this voiceover and he says, for 48 years, I couldn't go to the bathroom without being told when to go. He said, now not a drop unless I'm told. And it was just that idea of being forced into that place. That's a great analogy.

Yeah, you become a slave. You become enslaved to what has been done to you and how you responded to it with your choice. I mean, I like how you depicted that. You had something that happened. Somebody else's sin affected you. But then, so what are you going to do about it? And now, well, then you just compounded it. I think you continue to live in the darkness because of the guilt.

And because if you ever told somebody exactly where you have been, you're afraid of what their response will be. I don't know that anybody continually loves to live in darkness. I think it's the fear of the light shining on them so that everybody can see what is in their life. That's exactly right. That's why I said for her to have this transition so quickly, because she wasn't going around,

she was saying he told me everything I ever did. Because that was still her perspective. Which he didn't tell her everything she ever did. He only told her about her sexual sins. But he, I mean, she concluded he knows me. That's right. Which is why I think he brought up that about when he says you worship what you do not know. Yeah.

Because they were all in the place of it. I mean, I did a little rabbit hole search of these places. What I found fascinating was that Jacobs' well is still over there. Yeah. They built a church bell number. I'm like, have you read John for? I'm all for keeping the well. And look, I know a lot of people that have gone and visited it.

When I was in Israel, I didn't go because it's kind of on the wrong side of the track. And if you go visit it, they recommend security. But I saw a picture of it. And I thought it's fascinating. But so when you go back to the Old Testament history, that's what they thought. I mean, they, and people still, the last remaining Samaritans, they still worship on this mountain. Today, they have festivals there, whatever's called, starts with a G. This mountain that she was referring to when she said, oh, yeah, Gerasim.

Yeah, Gerasim. And when you go back, and you remember Jacob's ladder, which they called Bethel, which they believe Bethel is in a different place because Abraham got the promise there. So they're going back to this location, which is really what Jesus is making a transition to. But I wanted to say this also. And we didn't read the rest of the story because that really wasn't where it ended. You know, the disciples come back from town, and they're like, you know, Rabbi, you need to eat something. And then he gets into this about the food. I have food to eat that you know nothing about, which kind of goes in with the living water.

And then this woman, she goes out telling everybody in that last little paragraph says many of the Samaritans in verse 39 from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, which there it is again, He told me everything I ever did. Yeah. And so then the Samaritans came to him, which is a key phrase. And he stayed two days. And because of his words, many more became believers. They said to the woman, we no longer believe just because of what you said, which was, he told me everything I ever did.

Now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the savior of the world. Here's what I found fascinating. If you go back to the beginning of the story, because I believe this is a very clever way of John describing how all people view Jesus. And if you look at the titles, this is really fascinating. It starts off with her thinking he's just a Jew because in 4-9. Yeah. She said, the Samaritan woman said, you're a Jew.

and I'm a Samaritan. Well, you can't be talking to me. That's where it's, he's just a Jew who's acting, he's not acting appropriately by talking to me in the middle of the day alone. And especially since he claims to be some kind of spiritual figure. Right. Well, look, then, now his little comments made her then escalated to sir, which I found this fascinating.

She calls him, sir, in 11, 15, and 19. So now he's not just a Jew, but there's a little authority, which every other time this word is translated in the New Testament, I think but one, it's Lord. So it's an authority to respectful. So we went from just a Jew to Sir. Well, then when the confrontation happens, which we didn't talk about, but it was a confrontation.

Because at this point, everything's beautiful. when he says that everyone who drinks the water will be, drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give will become a spring of water welling up to eternal life. I mean, this is love is in the air. It's beautiful. Love is in bloom. Beautiful.

And then when the woman said, sir, give me this water, you know, so that I won't get thirsty and have to keep. coming here, and then go call your husband and come back. She's like, oh, no. Really, that's what happened. It's a confrontation without condemning. But he confronted her life cleverly because then he says, you know, I have no husband.

You're right. But then watch what she says. Well, I can see you're a prophet. So now we've gone from. Just as you to serve, someone that I need to respect. Well, now you're a prophet. So you continue on with the titles. And then she brings up in 425, well, I know that there is a Messiah called Christ, is coming.

So that word dropped out, but she's still not directing it toward him. Well, I know there was supposed to be a Messiah. And then in verse, that's 25. and then 29, watch this. When she said, come see a man who told me everything I ever did, could this be the Christ? Now, she didn't just, but we've escalated again. We've gone from a Jew to Sir, to a prophet now.

Maybe the Messiah. Maybe the Christ. And then I think when the disciples come in, this is interesting. That's why I read that. Well, they're calling him teacher, which they said rabbi, which is still... He is a great teacher. But where it ends, and the reason I read it,

is when they said he is the savior of the world. And I think that transition to us individually and collectively is really what this is about. It's like he's the savior of the world. Yes, he's the grace. Yes, he's a great teacher. Yes, he is Lord. Yes, he was a Jew.

He was a human. And when I noticed that, I just thought, man, that's awesome. But she had to have had a great hope that he was the Messiah because she went back to town and instead of going into her home where nobody can see her, whisper about her, she goes out and tells everybody in the whole town. Yeah. Well, it freed her, you know. Right.

So she has a hope that he's a Messiah. Yeah, and a respectful figure had actually. engaged her, loved her, and I think that just transformed her. But just think how lonely she was, think how shame-filled she was. And here's, even though there was a confrontation, you know. But there was also, going back to Zach, to the guy that you were talking about, so whenever he voiced what happened to him out loud and to another person, I believe that's whenever the release of the shame.

That's whenever he was released of that shame because he could actually voice that to another person. So this woman here, so she says, I have no husband. Then he tells her, well, you're right. You don't. You've had five. Yeah. Well, and the one you got now is not your husband. So she says, well, you're right.

So she's confessing. So there has to be a confession. Yeah. before this shame and guilt can be released. And that was her. She confessed it right there because she said you're right. And it's a faith moment. It's a faith moment.

That's exactly right. So what happened to her was she was thinking, this could be the Christ. I've got to go back and tell everybody. I mean, you know, I've got to tell people. Because the shame was gone then. That darkness that had overtaken her for all those years was now gone. and she was able to go in and talk to people

that she had never been able to face eye to eye before and she was finally there. Same thing with the guy you're talking about, Zach. Whenever he was finally able to confess what had happened to him, even though it was not his fault, whenever he was able to confess it, that's when God released that shame and that guilt in his life. It's when God released it in my life.

whenever I was able to tell Alan, because I had never told another person all in my whole life, all the things that had gone on, whenever I had that truth vomit, and I shared that with Alan in our bathroom that night, that's when the darkness left. That's when the shame was gone, and the guilt was gone, because that's what Christ does. He takes that away. Yeah. And I then had hope. Now, I was not, I didn't know what was. going to happen, but I had hope. And anytime there's just a sliver of hope, Christ takes it and runs with it. And then Lisa tells it when she went out behind her house, and her temple moment was just laying out on the grass behind her house. It wasn't a church building. It wasn't a temple. It was just her and the Almighty. And something changed that night. And so for 25 years, this woman has been going to Samaritan villages all around America. She has, hearing what God has done.

And then when I watched the results of that, we just watched a couple get up at our marriage refresh a month ago, and I mentioned him because the blind had such an impact on his life. And so they were telling what God had done. And he got to this point in their story and they're telling it. You could see him, couldn't you, baby? He just physically just because it was this last bit of shame he'd been holding on to. He just hadn't released it.

And then he told it, and it was a porn. He pulled his hat down. He pulled his hat down low. Nobody could see his eyes. And he was like looking down. And we were physically watching this man with that last bit of shame. And then he talked about how that porn had gripped him and then how it had damaged him and his mindset and his wife and his marriage.

So he tells him he's crying. And the wife is crying and she looks at him. Here's what she said. I found this fascinating. She said, he's never said that in public before. And then she looked at him and she said, I'm so proud of you. Now, I mean, we're all in tears because I'm watching this on phone. And I thought, you know, that was the last.

the grip the evil one has had on this man to keep him from being all he needed to be. And then we literally got to watch it like, you know, poor eye. And we've seen that many times in the past. People just burying their soul. And a lot of times it's just individuals. It's like a dam, you know, with all this water of pain and shame behind it. That's if you just, you said a sliver of hope, the way I see it, Lisa, is it's a prick in the dam as a sliver of hope. Yeah.

And once you prick that, then that it's like the tidal wave can come. Because you think about in John 3, verse 36, which is the last verse in John 3 right before we move into this story, he says, whoever believes in the sun has eternal life. It doesn't say we'll have eternal life. He says, has eternal life.

Like it's something that we possess actively now. Whoever does not obey the son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. And I think that term wrath is more of a passive wrath of God, kind of like that Romans passage where it says that God gave them over to themselves to do what ought not to be done. I said that his wrath is just like leaving you to your own vices to do what you want to do. And then the opposite of that is to be in obedience to him. So I think this moment going into the woman at the well is so pivotal because if you think about your story, Lisa, of hiding,

even when I was asking you about your experience, I was kind of like, well, but this is all of our experience. So your story may have gone a little deeper in some areas, but I didn't have a lot of things happened to me that happened to you. But my story is very similar in that I have hid and I don't want to be exposed. I don't want someone to read my mail like Jesus read this woman's mail. I mean, he read her mail. He got in her mailbox, pulled it out, and said, actually, you've been married five times. And the guy you live with now is not your husband.

And she's like, whoa, okay, you must be a prophet. and he ends up telling her I'm a whole lot more in a prophet. Well, he brought her some truth. And I think that's the thing. He told some truth. It's truth and spirit.

And so when he says that, like she's trying to contain worship into a place on a mountain, which he, I mean, the Jews didn't even realize that as a legitimate place anyways. But even in Jesus's statement, you guys worship what you don't know.

We worship what we do know for salvation is from the Jews. And then there's a three-letter word that comes right after that. But, yeah, I mean, but both of the things, those contacts. He said, but now something new is happening. God's, God's bringing intimacy to earth, to people. Now he's really going to show us what worship truly looks like and what true worship is.

It's born out of a repentant heart. It's God coming back in. It's connection. It's being known and knowing. And that's the thing I think that that's our trajectory as Christians now is a, it's a journey of becoming known and understanding that. And you guys have coined this phrase. I think you coined it. You said it a thousand times to me. We're going to detonate our own time bomb. Yeah.

And when you think about it, how many people have you talked to that try to do just what this woman did? They're confronted with who they are to Jesus. And they say, you know, I've got to get back in church. Oh, I got to read my Bible. Well, but people believe the lie that if they know what I did, nobody would talk to me. Right.

Well, here's the creator of the world who obviously knows everything she's done, and is having a conversation with her, which I think echoes what we read in John 3 when he said, God didn't send his son into the world to condemn the world. I mean, if he's ever going to condemn somebody, she's got quite a few strikes here, but he sent his son to save the world, and whoever believes in him is not condemned.

So of all the people you can have a conversation with, And know everything that you've ever done and is still willing to have a creation, I mean to have a conversation, you talking to the creator of the world, because we all tend to be earthly in that God's a million miles away, he doesn't know what I'm doing because I don't believe he's there. And I think that's why it is about a person and he has the conversation. Let me say it's one thing because it is a lie. It's a lie.

And even when Lisa, when you were telling your story, I thought, that's a lie. Think about the absurdity of the lie that you believe, that you are afraid that if you were to let yourself be known by Phil, that you would be cold. Well, I'm like, I could have just let you watch the blind. And you would have seen this guy wouldn't a choir boy. I mean, like, he of all people, like, I mean, like, but the, you, in that setting, you thought, I can't be known here. But if you look at the setting of who you were afraid to be known by, he was probably worse than you. you were. And I think that's the interesting thing about how the devil, that's what he says. I want you to hide. I don't want you to be known. Keep that a secret. Don't tell anybody if they knew you, if they really

knew you, weirdo, you pervert, you, whatever the accusation is. Yeah. You know, I think that the Lord's just like, let me just take that away. Just open it up, be known. I'm going to be present. Even in your depravity. I'm present. By your enemies, I died for you. which is the ultimate. All right, we're almost out of time. I think that's, yeah. So I think compassion, the best thing for us to do in our daily life whenever we are helping other people is to show Christ compassion. He did not say to this woman, you know, he didn't, he didn't condemn her.

He didn't say, well, you know, you prostitute, you know, but he didn't call her that. He told her what she did. And then he told her, I can give you living water. I can be the person. I can be the thing that you're looking for. So I think the most important thing for us to do every day is to show that same compassion to other people, especially in their darkness.

Yeah, that's a good point. I want to read this. This is Galatians 4, verse 8. And Paul says, formerly when you did not know God, you are slaves to those who by nature are not God's little G. But now that you know God, and then I love this little dash, or rather are known by God,

how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? It's an ongoing thing. God knows us. Deal with it in a positive. He knows our name. Well, we only scratched the surface. Our brother-in-law, Tony Thomas, has painted a picture of Jesus and the woman at the well. So check his, I think it's Tony Thomas.

Tonythomasart.com. So check that out. But anyway, Lisa, thanks for coming on. Sure. I wish we had had more time. But we scratched the surface of this great story. We'll pick it up next to it. We're in a shame.

Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.