Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1067 | How Phil & Miss Kay Are Doing Now

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

Jase, Al, and Zach give an update on Phil and Miss Kay, who continue to keep the spark of hope and love alive despite the challenges they—and the Robertson family—face. The guys reflect on the Christian view of the afterlife, and Jase shares a funny moment when he preached Phil’s own sermon back to him. Plus, a song on the radio from 38 years ago sends them into a deep dive of 80s nostalgia. In this episode: John 5, verses 1-18 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Maybe that's your problem while you're going blind and you don't feel. We had an interesting brain. Boy, during the end-between these two episodes. Zach dropped a word that I was not familiar with. I had to look it up. It's still on my computer screen.

Intrape. It was called entropy. So then I read the definition, which I was more confused than when I started. Well, tell them the context of how it said. it. I think that'll help. Well, I don't remember what you said. Well, you were talking about... You were stretching. Vision law. We were talking about age. And I said, the one thing that we, none of us are going to escape is entropy. Yeah. So you said that and all of a sudden I thought,

I can't escape something that I don't know what it is. So that's why I couldn't escape because someone would say, you're struggling with entropy. I would say, what did you call? Well, it all started because Zach couldn't read the ads because he can't see now. And so Maddie, who's like 21 years old or whatever she is, she, 23 years old, she's like, just make a bigger font. Like, she has no patience with our old man isms. And so she's telling Zach, just make her font bigger read. And then Zach's stretching during the break in between. I was like, who stretches for a podcast?

Well, let's do a test. Yeah, he was actually literally stretching. He was stretching. I'm watching him on camera. I was like, who stretches for a podcast? When you're stretching so that you can sit down for an hour? Zach, how many fingers on my whole not? I can say, you got two.

I'd by the increase the screen size. So I read the second definition, which I missed one word. It said physics. Why didn't you just say that? Physics. Physics. It's all physics. It's all physics.

Physically. Yeah, over time. We're going downhill. We go down. And we're doing this. on purpose because it does kind of lead into what we're going to talk about today. But I'll read the definition for the people who listen to Jason's Redneck Logic. It is a lack of order or predictability, gradual decline into disorder.

So the body, that's what happens. Yeah. So. Yeah. Another way of saying it is that things tear up over time. Yeah. Well, exactly. They just, but you know, it's interesting about this, this word entropy. The reason why it's, I use it a lot is probably about 20 years ago when I got into apologetics,

one of the writers I was reading about was using this, it's a scientific fact. I mean, it's a law of the universe. It's actually the second law of thermodynamics, which is about heat and matter and, you know, thermo-heat. heat, but imagine the universe and every star in the universe is like a campfire. And with any campfire, if you sit around it long enough and you don't add wood to it, what happens to it? It burns out.

It burns out. So that's entropy. What it's trying to do is the campfire is trying to get to the same temperature as everything around it, which is called equilibrium. And so the philosophers looked at this, and they said, you know, the past has to have a beginning. Genesis 1 has to be, the Christian philosophers have said this,

that the Genesis 1 has to be true because the past has to have a beginning. It can't be like this eternal, like regression of, there has to be a beginning to all this because of the second law of thermodynamics. Because given enough time, every fire in the universe

will eventually burn out. But they're clearly not burned out because we still have the sun that gives us heat and a lot of other stars as well, which means that we haven't been here for an infinite amount of time, because if we had been, there wouldn't be any heat left. And so we actually can look at entropy as a tremendous example and evidence for the existence of the true claims of the Bible

because it points to the fact that the universe began to exist. It hasn't always been here. Do you mean translate that for you? Yeah, can you translate that? No, I'm going to give you the translation for all the simple-minded people out there. someone started the fire. That's number one. Number two, there are humans who sit around a fire,

and then there are humans that go get something to put on the fire. That would be my camp while you're sitting before you do some stretching so you can sit around the fire. You're going to bring some duck and deer and something to roast over the fire. Yeah, I got that from Jesus, you know. Post-resurrection. It takes all kind of people that. We need each other. What was the first thing?

I don't know about the first. What was one of the first things Jesus did post-resurrection? He ate. He started a fire. The fire came first. The fire came first. And we've been on fire ever since. You know why he did that?

Crickets. Because he could. Because he could. It's always a good answer. He may have just touched it. He may have just touched it and lit up. We don't know that. Dead men don't start fire, Zach.

That's where I'm going with that. They don't do that. They don't eat feast either. So, Zach, when you were saying that, it took me back to, you remember the, I think it was for this podcast. But now that I'm sitting there, I'm not sure if it was that or in the woods with Phil. One of the two kickoffs, you filmed a video of Dad in the Woods. Was that for in the woods with Phil? Yeah, that was our first, yeah, I remember that.

Yeah, it was like a thing we put out there to, like, draw people's attention. And it was a fire. He started this fire in the woods. It was a beautifully done. The guy that was our cinematographer back then worked on the movie that we did, which was called Torch Bear. Yeah, Casey. Yeah, Casey. And it was a beautiful shot of Dad in the Woods.

It was a night, and this fire is just rolling, you know, and it starts, Remember that, Zach? It started in the woods of the field. I tried to think of what he said. It was... Oh, it was classic dad. Yeah. Well, was that we said on the last podcast, we'd say what Zach did when he came here,

which one of the things, we haven't given an update on my parents lately. And to tell you the truth, it hasn't been good. But for my mom, it's been a lot better this past week. Yeah. Because she was really not doing good. She got an infection from a fall, from a cut that had happened earlier. And she was in the hospital for 11 days. Yeah, but she's now, she's still in a hospital, but it's more.

Rehab. Yeah, rehab. Physically, trying to get her to eat. But we were kind of dealing with the fact that maybe this is it. I mean, that's what it seemed like in the moment. It seemed close there, yeah. Yeah, so it was difficult. And my dad, you know, when people say, because that's the number one question I get everywhere I go.

And they're like, how's your dad doing? And now I'm just giving the blunt truth. I say, not good. Yes, what I said. And so, but it's overwhelming, but Zach visited both our parents. I pulled in. Because you hadn't been down in a minute, Jose. No, it's been a while.

I mean, it's been. Yeah, I pulled in when Zach was coming out. So he kind of stuck his head in the window, you know, because we've had to get him some professional care. and I was like, how'd that go? And Zach just lost it, you know. And I kind of realized in that moment when you're in these battles day by day, you kind of compartmentalize everything just so you can deal with.

I mean, it reminds me in a way of like my daughter should go through those surgeries. And I was kind of a basket case the first few times. But after a while, you're just like, well, I got to do the best I can and be a rock for. And so that's kind of what we're doing, you know, with my dad. And then Zach has the added thing of, you know, he went through this with his mom a few years ago. So it's all I had this conversation with Gordon, Zach's dad, because it's almost like some version of PTSD because you go back there and you think about all the time you had to be the one like we are as the kids having to go through the hardest moments and yet be strong and, you know, try to provide the right care. So it's a double whammy. But we're making them comfortable and, you know, we're doing the best we can.

And so I think that's just what you do. He was watching Westerns when I walked in the bedroom. He was in there watching a Western movie. But yeah, it was, I think when you're in it like you guys are, you're seeing the fade. I hadn't been around and I'd seen him a few months. So I come in, it's like, whoa, which I remember when Sai came up to see my mom. Yeah. And he walked in to see her.

And, of course, you know, he just, I mean, he was like me with you yesterday, Jason. I mean, he just lost it. We hugged each other and cried together. But it's because he hadn't seen her and that he had never, you know, so I think it's, you have an image in your mind. I've said this a lot about dementia and Alzheimer's. I think anyone in our audience who's gone through it will, this will resonate with them. That we talk a lot about how it steals the memories of the ones who,

have the disease. But for me, it also still is the memory of the one caring for the people have the disease because you're seeing this slow progression over time. And it's just, it's hard to watch. But when you come in, it's a little more shocking when you see it, you know, in real life. But yeah, I lost it. It was, it was a kind of a tough trip. I didn't anticipate that. I didn't anticipate, you know, either break it down on you either, Jace. But yeah. Well, it's just, it's been tough. But we appreciate the prayers. And look, the bottom line is, I mean, we've been talking about these signs, and even when we went to story on the last podcast, talking about Hezekiah getting 15 more years.

And, you know, at some point, Hasakai died. I mean, this is the hand we're dealt. And there's a spark. Zach and I talked about this, which was really powerful. There's a spark, you know, of hope in both of my parents that at their lowest moments during this process, which my mom's on them. upswing now, which is awesome, you still see that spark. It's in there. And, you know, it's the spirit of God. So, you know, we're all going to be faced with entropy because we're living on a planet where everything decays and dies.

And it's not only the Holy Spirit, which is the most important one, but it's also love for each other. And, you know, Zach, you were involved in the blind, which was a story of where they came from. But, you know, they've been together 60 years now. They haven't been able to be together in proximity for a few weeks. But when they FaceTime each other, which we've been doing that quite frequently because they're in different places, the spark that comes in both of their eyes when they see one another is really touching. I mean, it reminds you of the blessing we get on Earth to have somebody to carry burdens with in the beauty of marriage and relationship. And to be honest, that's really dad's only consistent North Star is usually mom.

What did he tell you, Jace, when you were there about the message to get the K. I thought that was funny. About the Navy? No, the one always said, tell her to call me. Oh, yeah. No, he got a pen out. He was like, which was really the most intelligent thing he had of the conversation. He's like, hey, now when you see her, because what we've been doing is we'll cook a meal pretty much.

Because she's in a hospital setting. Yeah, and she just hasn't been eating. And so Missy's like, well, what do you want? What is your, what will you eat if I cook it? And she wanted the meatloaf and mashed potatoes. Which is her recipe, which is. So we, yeah, we took it to Phil first. And he was ate just like, you know, he went to town on it.

And the Kay might have taken five or six bites. which was five or six more bites than she's been taken. But when I was at Phil, I was like, well, we're going to go CK. Because we're trying to get them back together, but they're both dealing with severe issues. So he said, well, hey, you got a pen out. And he's like, now make sure you tell her to call me.

Well, I'm like, well, Phil, you don't have a phone. He said, yep, but let me write it down. Because I'll forget. I was like, but Phil, you don't have a phone. He was like, let me write it down. I was like, look, how about we just handle it? We'll take care of it. And he finally said, well, why didn't you say so?

You know, it's just hard to have a conversation sometimes, you know, because I'm like, right in this number. Because I want you out there know when you had these moments with Alzheimer's patients. Because he was telling me the last time I saw him about that he didn't understand why he had trouble remember stuff. and I was like, well, Dad, you have a disease and it affects your brain. I'm trying to, like, explain it. And he looked at me, he said, I know it.

Yeah. Like, I get it. And so in the moment, it's just that frustration, but, you know, he has a hard time. Yeah, well, now I'm not sure. Now I don't know. Yeah, I don't think he's aware of that. But, I mean, you just do the best you can. And it's a, yeah, it reminds me of that verse in Ecclesiastes where it says that God has put

eternity in the hearts of men. And then there's Psalms 90, teach us Lord to number our days. I think it says so that we might gain certain wisdom. And I think that it's, it is really important to contemplate your own mortality. I mean, I think you see it when you have loved ones facing stuff.

But, Jay, as you made this point before, we're going through the gospel, John. Every one of the people that got healed, they eventually didn't get healed. I mean, like, like, that is a, we are part of a bigger story and this side of the second coming. So, you know, we, we emphasize the kingdom is here a lot on this podcast. But, but we also need to remember that it's not fully here.

There is going to be a full consummation later. Well, exactly. Well, and it was like the apostle Paul, Zach. I was just to a sermon Sunday in Kentucky and the guy that preached it. One of the last verses he read was Paul telling Timothy. I'm already being poured out like a drink offering. And that really struck me because I've been thinking a lot about mom and dad and praying. And I thought, you know, Paul got to the, he knew.

He knew the end was coming. Yeah. And look, you won't do any more than he was doing for the kingdom. I mean, most of the books of the New Testament, he wrote. And so he realized it in the moment and said, look, it's poured out. And it hit me in that moment. I thought, you know what? My dad's been pouring it out for 50 years.

You're talking about an all-in person. And, you know, wherever we get to in this journey, we realize that at some point we pour it out and then we cross over. I mean, this is going to happen to every one of us. Well, even in the last chapter of the book of John, you know, there's a little tension there about. Yeah. Peter, you know, Jesus starts talking about his death, you know, and he's like, well, and then he's looking at John, like assuming, oh, you're not going to, how come he's not going to die, you know. And remember Jesus said, if I want him to remain alive until. I return. What is that to you? Follow me. So, you know, I think we're all about looking at things that happen on the earth and realize God is still raining by giving us the spirit as a deposit, you know, guaranteeing our inheritance. And even through their struggle, my dad has the Holy Spirit of God. My mom has the Holy Spirit of God. I mean,

death has become a glitch that was the snap of the fingers, you know. So, but this is part of the journey and part of the life. I mean, God introduced this new creation to us that we have the spirit. And that's why I said, you can see people that are doing this on a daily basis with my parents. Oh, it's there. You see the spark. You see the spirit. So when you know, you know, he had a little nightstand when I walked in.

I mean, you guys are there a lot more than I am. but he had three things on the nightstand. I thought was interesting. And this sums up kind of his life. The biggest item on the stand was the Bible. The Bible, yeah. The second biggest was a book about duck species, which I thought was funny.

Well, somebody sent that, some listener sent that to give to my dad, and I'm grateful because he really likes that. It was like written when he was like 1970, I think. Yeah, it was like 40 years ago. It was because in his mind, he kind of went through a stage there where it was like 1970. So, yeah, and then what's the other thing? The one that I should have suspected, but it was kind of the one that kind of hit me was a glass of tea, of sweet tea.

He's got all the essentials. He's got what he needs. Well, I came in there a couple days ago and said, just letting you know what today is, whatever. I read the date off my phone. you know and he was like 2005 are you kidding me I was like yeah

it's 2,025 I was like and so I did his speech that we've heard a thousand times I said look it's 2,000 25 years since Jesus was here on the earth and he was like hold it hold it and so he started love said well you're looking for Phil

and he just he wouldn't say because he couldn't think of the name or what he was looking for which turned out to be a pen And he said, I need to write this down. He said, we told you that. That's good material. So I started waiting. Well, he kept writing and I never looked at what he wrote, but I was scared to look.

But I just thought, you know, he's forgotten. He thought this is awesome. And I'm like, Phil, you've said this a thousand times. This was your stump speed. And so then I just thought, I'm going to keep going with this. I was like, you know what time it is in China? And I said that, yeah, like the same date. And he's like, hang on, hang on.

What I love about that is dad recognized a good sermon when he hears one. Well, it kind of hit me in the moment. It's as frustrating as it is about them forgetting things and not being aware of their condition or their surroundings. You literally can tell any good news every day. and that they act like it's the first time they ever heard it. It's almost new every day. I think it's more a perspective.

Kind of like that verse, is it Jeremiah, that talks over, let me his lamentation says that new mercies are born every morning. Yeah. And that's a good way of looking at life too. But we're still praying, and like you say, hey, we're not underestimating the power of God. He can do what he wants to.

And I'm really grateful that I think he's healed my mom in a way because it just was looking really grim. but uh and that's why we haven't been talking about it because i thought this could go either way here but she's really bouncing back and and seems to be doing better yeah and i know some of you out there have struggled because you've sent me notes telling me that you know why aren't you speaking more life into them jace talked about has a cow on the last one the 15 more years you understand when heaven comes to earth and you recognizing the spirit of god lives in you we already understand the grasp of eternity.

And 78 years seem like a long time until it didn't. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's just like for me. 60 years seem like an old man until I turned 60. Well, and people are commenting from a perspective. They don't know the context. Right. And look, I get it. I understand.

And I'm not angry about it. Because I'm like, we've given them the greatest care that they have teams of medical professionals and teams of people who are praying and we're reading scripture, and we're doing all the things that I think are the right way to do it. And, you know, as in my dad's case, I mean,

he exercises, he eats, he's being checked out on a daily basis, you know, and just there's no improvement. I mean, this is going on for months. Yeah. And so, well, what do you do? You know, you just do with whatever hand you're doing. Well, and look, I've quoted that many, many times.

He said it over and over. and I've told him this now in this new era we're in, the resurrection looms large. How many times as he said that on this podcast? So we understand the crossover in eternity. So just believe us in saying that we understand eternity and the value of it. And we're already living in it now. We understand it.

Yeah, and where we're at in the text, I mean, we just did a whole podcast about, you know, look at where the signs are pointing. Yep. I mean, yes, Jesus was given a glit. of the kingdom, his kingdom, which is there's a new creation that is being formed. And he's introducing that. He's showing what it means to be in the presence of the king.

Look, he's healing people, he's doing miracles. That's all pointing to him being from the son of God. But what he plans on doing for each individual on the cross and the resurrection and ultimately pouring out his spirit and being seated at the right hand of God as the head of the church. I mean, this is what is the game changer. Those signs are pointing to who he is, and time no longer matters after that.

We're going to live eternally, as my point. Eternal life keeps coming up. And it's understanding you mentioned in the last podcast of the word becoming flesh. That really becomes the key. And I think that's the point John's trying to make, because he's already said, look, he goes back to Galilee,

And at first, because they've seen good things, they're like, oh, yeah, we love this guy. He's a hometown hero until he starts into who he really is. Yeah. And then it's like, wait a minute, you know, and that's when he got into about not being accepted. Well, that's my point. Look, when you read this last miracle that we left off, he healed this royal official son, and he just said it, which I think that's why the disciples had a misrepresentation of what Jesus was going to bring.

Because you've got to think about it. He changed water to wine, and now all of a sudden he's able to say something. Well, think if you were looking for a king that was going to take on other kingdoms in a warlike fashion, well, if you had Jesus on your side, you're like, they can't starve us out. I mean, this dude can just get you something to drink out of thin air. And can speed, and it can literally bring food from little into, enough to feed thousands. Well, that's going to happen in John 6.

Yeah, when you put all those pieces, it's like, this is the ultimate warrior. Because if somebody gets stabbed on the battlefield, he can just say, be healed. Yeah. And then he's healed. I mean, in their mind, I think that's what they're thinking. But what it's really pointing to is if Jesus is who he is,

well, death, our view of death changes here. Because it's like, if he has that kind of power, which is, this is where we're going. going in the signs. When he gets to the seventh sign, he raises a man from the dead. His last one was the resurrection. Yeah, I'll just give you. What a great point, though. I mean, that's why the argument that Paul makes, you're looking for the signs. He said, the Jews look for the signs and the Greeks demand wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, meaning we preach a Christ who died. Why would we preach that? Because he didn't stay dead.

I mean, that's the big thing that's happening here in Scripture and Christianity gives us, it's not just that we have, we don't know, you don't avoid death as a Christian. You conquer death. And that's a big difference. Now we're talking. And that's what our third time is going to be about in John 5. Because it really becomes not so much about the healing, but more about he did it on the Sabbath. And so now this third sign is going to be that this new Sabbath is the fulfillment of the original picture of the Sabbath, which goes all the way back to creation.

John didn't do this by accident. What did he do when he introduced Jesus? He's like, in the beginning. Well, you remember the story of creation, and then God rested. And then they, as God's chosen nation, observe the Sabbath. And it was like a day of rest and fulfillment and celebration. So he's going to make that the sign that there's a new Sabbath that he's introducing, which a lot of people have missed.

Yeah. So you may read this, John 5. And remember, this is coming off of the, I believe Jason is around the money, because we've talked about the temple, which if you look at it and you see this idea of the ultimate Jewish establishment, it's that. we're fixing to go into another sacred thing, and that's the Sabbath. So I think he's showing his authority what he's conquering here. And this sign that the Sabbath is pointing to, what Jesus gives you as far as the new Sabbath?

I mean, it is a game changer to me. That's good. Now, look, I'm not going to read the whole chapter, but what happens is this story triggered resistance, and Jesus basically gives a sermon, and then he gives another sermon. based on this. So we're probably... At least go through 18. Yeah, we're not going to be able

to cover all this, but I think it would be good for you to read the whole chapter and get a feel for this. It's kind of spark a lot of conversation from Jesus. This is one place where you can't just read the first paragraph because he actually has little nuggets that he's going to get into

based on what just happened. But we'll just introduce it today. So, John 5, third sign, here we go. Some time later, Jesus went up to Jerusalem for one of the Jewish festivals, which is a key point because they all gathered up, meaning there were hundreds of people, if not thousands. Probably thousands. Now there is in Jerusalem near the sheep gate a pool,

which is Aramaic, in Aramaic is called Bethesda. Bethesda. I have a hard time saying that. Well, there's a Besseda. in here too. That throws you out. Okay, yeah. Bethesda.

And which is surrounded by five covered colonnades. Here a great number of disabled people used to lie, the blind, the lame, the paralyzed. One who was there had been an invalid for 38 years. When Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he had been in the condition for a long time, he asked him, so this is our fourth question. I did this on the last podcast. We're making, what are we making, a collage of questions in Book of John? Because I already got one sermon.

What do you seek? Will you give me a drink? Why do you involve me? Or why do you involve me? Why do you, will you give me a drink? And do you want to get well? Do you want to get well? It's pretty good.

That's a good sermon. Verse seven, sir, the invalid replied, I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. While I'm trying to get in, someone else goes down ahead of me. and you sense a little self-pity there. But understandably, the man has been crippled for 38 years, an invalid. Which, by the way, is that's longer than the lifetime expectancy of this era. I'm fixed to make a point about that. So just, okay.

So where do I leave off? Yeah, verse 8. So verse 8, then Jesus said to him, get up, pick up your mat and walk. At once the man was cured, he picked up his mat and walked. That's basically it. It was like quick. Nothing about faith. It's like healing gone, bam.

So then watch what happens. The day on which this took place was the Sabbath. So you know he made a point to do this. Because look, this guy's been laying here for 38 years. What's one more day? So it wasn't like Jesus couldn't awaited that. He knew because there was a sign here that he's pointing to about, you know, the kingdom. Here's what the kingdom's going to look like, the new creation.

And so the Jewish leaders said to the man who had been Hill, it is the Sabbath. The law forbids you to carry your map. And so I looked up a little list. There was all kinds of things. There's 39 different things in one list I looked at. Yeah, but he replied, the man who made me well said to me, pick up your mat and walk. So they asked him, well, who is this fella? Which you got to remember, this is the theme of John.

Who is this fellow who told you to pick it up and walk? The man who was healed had no idea who it was. For Jesus had slipped away into the crowd that was there. I was like, he just got healed, bam. Later, Jesus found him, which I love this part of this. the story at the temple and said to him because it's probably the first time he'd been in the temple in 38 years yeah well you know it was because he would have never been allowed in see you are well again now watch this statement stop sinning or something worse may happen to you the man went away

and told the jewish leaders that it was jesus who had made him well to now he knew so because jesus was doing these things on the sabbath the jewish leaders began to persecute him. In his defense, Jesus said to them, my father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working. For this reason, they tried all the more to kill him. Not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own father, making himself equal with God. So there's a lot of unpacked there, because their impression was like, God's still resting. Remember the seventh day? He made everything and he's,

we thought that was it. Yeah. And then all of a sudden a guy, a human being, they're looking at, says, oh, no, we're working. He's my father. You did this on the Sabbath. So there's a lot of rabbit holes to go down here. Well, one of the things I wanted to mention was this is something new I learned.

And, you know, there's a lot of opinion out in the scholarly world. But one of the pictures I saw in one of the books that I've been reading alongside of this, was there's a pool that looks a lot like this because of the description, the colonnades and everything there. And it's kind of north of the temple, but it's close. It's like within the shadow of the temple.

So it would have been close to the temple, if this is the place it was. And they're not 100% sure. I think they're pretty sure. Well, and I think it is, for sure. There's differing opinion, but I think they're right. It's called the Asclepion,

which is after Asclepius, who is a Greek god of medicine, And so the idea was, you probably read the same stuff, that this was a lot of pagans would gather here. Exactly, which is why, yeah, I read the same stuff, which is why they think Jesus picked this place. That's what I thought. Because he's like picking a fight with the,

because you got to remember, in our culture now, I don't know when this started happening, Zach may know. Everything about Jesus became about just him doing away with our sin. Yeah. But if you read the Bible, there's a lot more to it than just that. I mean, he's taking on the evil powers. Think the, think of Ephesians.

There's a cosmic battle. There's a meta. No doubt. Yeah. I totally agree. I think that happened. I don't, there's a lot, you know, a lot of discussion here. Well, think to go back to the Ten Commandments, you know, you'll have no other God before me.

Well, how many times has that been violated? there were our whole cultures built on whole God characters. Exactly. He does save us from our sins personally, but he's also, like, we're being invited into part of a cosmic battle. We're being invited into something much bigger than just our individual selves. Think about that Ephesians 3 passage when it says that through the church, the colorful or the manifold wisdom of God is being known to the, I think it says the principalities and the rule. in the heavenly realms. Well, exactly.

We're doing more than just, it's not that we're, we are saved from our sin by Jesus, but we're also saved to something and there's a bigger thing going on here. So the point, N.T. Wright made this point that was really rich, that Jesus would swoop into this place

that was rife with pagas. No good Jew would ever go here. But obviously there were some Jews there, like this guy, who's been there for 38 years, and he swoops in and he heals this guy, and then the guy goes back to the temple, eventually. That's where Jesus runs into it. And the idea is that

N.T. Wright makes the point is John continues this idea of the kingdom expansion. And the idea God came here for a reason. It was beyond just the Jewish people, even though this guy was a Jew, and this would spark the whole thing about the Sabbath and everything was going to happen as a result of it. But I loved that picture. I had never thought about that before. This is, just like the Samaritan woman, this is another idea that Jesus came here with a global idea that all people could find salvation. Yeah, it's kind of like what we talked about before on some podcast, where when Peter famously

said, when Jesus said, who do you say I am? He said, you're the Christ, the Son of the Living God. But they were at a place where basically the equivalent of satanic worship was going on. Right. You know, and on this rock. And so some of these scholars, they're like, say, the rock. was right here where all this demonology was taught. And so why is he doing that?

Well, the same thing. And the transfiguration also, it was supposedly the land, the realm of the dead at the foot of the mountain where all these philosophies were coming up. And I think it was Jesus saying, I'm, you know, picking a fight, whatever you want to say, I'm here to take you on. And but meanwhile, not realizing and not giving away the fact that his death would actually be their demise, because that was their go-to was if there's a threat, you just kill them. That's why this is the realm of the dead. And I think, is this the first time we've seen that use where they're starting to say this guy needs to, something needs to be done about it?

Well, right. And you just see right here, they're threatening to kill him because that's what you do. And these were supposedly religious people. And I thought N.T. Wright and his commentary made another good point about when the garden, when the Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden, so here you have this place where God and humans are living together. And when they're kicked out, well, death, think Romans 5, came to all men now because you've lost access to this tree of life and were estranged. which is really why the evil one became the Lord of the Dead. Right.

Which makes passages make more sense where it says he was the murderer from the beginning. And when Jesus came, he came to destroy him who had the power of death. That is the devil. That's Hebrews too. But I'd never thought about the symbolism. So it says God put a cherubal and a flaming sword to protect the entrance back into the garden. Well, he made a, you know, and look, I don't, it's the first time I had really thought about that. And he was like, only death, you know, Jesus' death could break that down.

And he made the illustration about when Jesus died, the curtain was ripped into, because it was symbolic of the chair of them and the flaming sword, I guess, of death. Oh, yeah. I'm preaching on that in two weeks. I was like, ooh, that's good. This is good. So I think, because that curtain, what did I have sewn into it? it had that that that that curtain the veil that was torn it had it had the share of them's sewn and that was

yeah that's what he put and think about this that in in behind that curtain in the temple was a place called the holy of holies that's the whole point of the book of hebrews by the way they got the only way you're getting in there is through the high priest and he has to make the sacrifice for for the people's sins once a year and then first he has to atone for himself and there's this whole like like picture that the Hebrew writer's painting. I was like, this is not a great system. You know what I mean? Like, is it going to work?

Man, what if we had a better system with a better priesthood where the priest didn't even have to atone for his own sins? He was perfect. And he could, didn't atone for our sins. Oh, by the way, then he also became the atonement for our sins. Oh, and also he is the temple.

And you're seeing the picture played out here. And I think that you see this in this text, too, because when you think about the Sabbath, And Mark, Luke, I think in Matthew, they all have another event where Jesus addresses the Sabbath. Yeah, it's Matthew 12 and Mark 2. Yeah, think about what he says in Mark 2. He says that the problem is, is you guys didn't understand that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Like, you've missed it.

And the other part you missed is that Jesus, be speaking as Jesus, I'm Lord of the Sabbath. Oh, exactly. You missed those two big things, which is the whole thing we talked about in the last podcast. So what does I have to do anything about the signs? And you brought up Hezekiah. Like, what is all? You don't focus. If you end up just worshiping the signs, then you worship the Sabbath.

And you don't understand what the Sabbath was for because you don't understand who's the head of the Sabbath. You don't worship the signs. Worship the sign giver, the one who has authority over the signs. and then you'll be able to see the sign in its context that these are actually made for our benefit. And you could say this, Zach, you could say the same thing. I would argue the same thing about all of the law, especially the Ten Commandments.

Each of those were made for man. I mean, why do we not murder one another? It's for the good of man. Why do we not covet my neighbor's wife because it's the good of man? Why should we never put ourselves up as gods? Because we're terrible gods. You know, we can't.

It's such a good point. I mean, every point, so if you put your trust in law, it's the same problem by putting your trust in what you were talking about. Well, that's legalism, right? So if you said, what is the definition of legalism? One definition we could use would be to take the things of God, the commandments of God, and twist, turn them into something that God does for him instead of something that God does for us. Like, we got to earn it somehow through keeping these. It's what they told me early on with my diet. Don't focus on what you can't eat.

Focus on what you can't eat. Yeah. It's the best thing they ever told me about it. Nobody's never told me that about it. And I thought, they're right. I'm always saying about what I can't eat. Instead of saying, look, I can eat all this. You know, it's the same idea.

Well, it reminds me when Jesus said, you know, come to me, all of you who are labor and are heavy laden. Heavy burden. And I will give you rest because that's what the symbol was about. But think about Hebrews 4. You know, when he talks about a Sabbath rest for God's people, and he did the same thing we did, even in the context of John 5, like verse 4 says, for somewhere he has spoken about the Sabbath day in these words,

and on the seventh day God rested from all his work. And so then when you get to like verse 8, it says, for if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. there remains then a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from us, from His. Let us therefore make every effort to enter that rest so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

But then it gets into the Word of God is living and active, and now you're going back to this living water. because the Greek word for living in that living water was like running water. And here in this pool, you know, I looked it up, and these historians say that they basically had one pool that was going into another pool, and it was creating current and bubbles. And so then this Greek god, they were like, oh, no, it's the angel putting bubbles in the water, you know. And so it had this mystique about that.

By the way, if you fast forward thousands of years, the reason people back 100 years ago went to Hot Springs, Arkansas, and all these other places where there are hot springs is because there was a medicinal value. It's like, oh, we got living water. It's bubbling. It's warm, you know.

And I think that's why Jesus sought out that one guy, 38 years. I mean, you don't, do you realize? I looked it up. Look, 38 years ago, I was a senior in high school. Good. Well, I was. dating. You talk about entropy.

I'm telling you, son, right there. That's it. 38 years ago, I became a dad for the first time. Wow. You know what I found fascinating? I look back and look back and it's like, what are the major events in 1987? I mean, we're talking about Ronald Reagan and ending the Cold War. We're going back to that.

You know what the number one song that year was? Madonna. Walked like an Egypt. Shit. And look, so I got to look in, I'm like Egypt. I mean, there was a spiritual component to it. It was a little dance with a little dance. Oh, it was a thing, you know, it was four women from England or whatever.

Yeah, who said that? The Bengals. The Bengals, yeah. So look, you know what I found fascinating about that? When I looked at it, I was like, how did they write that song? Because I'm like, they might have been believers or something. Yeah. So the guy who wrote the song was on a ferry ride somewhere over in Europe.

And the waves came up and he saw how everybody was, because they were trying to keep their balance. And it reminded them of the ancient Egyptian portraits on the walls that they had written with their arms out. And he's like, these people are walking like Egyptians because the boat's rocking. I've been there on a cruise ship. I never put that together. Put it together. Crab walked on a cruise ship.

Hold on. Is this, did you make this up or is this like a real? I read it on the internet, which by the way in 1987 was the big, it went from a thousand interactions on the internet to like 30,000. It was like this thing's actually taken off. Well, let me just say something to our audience here. I think this is important. If you don't think we study for this podcast, the fact that that he went that deep.

He didn't just, I mean, he thought 1980, I mean, he went, you went on a, like, you did your work. You did your research. Well, I was a senior in high school. I was looking at the movies, like the number one movie was three men and a baby. Oh, wow. Steve Gutenberg. Yeah.

And it was like, I mean, the other movies were like fatal attraction, you know. That's when everybody was like, oh, man. Girlfriend. I better get right with my wife. Girlfriend or mistress. I don't have a lot of. memories from the late 80s. I do have when you say, you were just

a young lad. I was a kid. I was a little kid, but I do remember something from 1985 that just say, every time I hear in 1985, something pops in my head. What do you think it is? The most significant event in my mind. See, I was, what, a sophomore in high school?

It was a, it was a transitional year for me. I just got married. I'd just come to the Lord. So I was just trying to survive. What was is that? De Bears. Oh, the bears. Well, let me give you this.

Do you know how far away this was? Icky Woods, the Icky Shuffle, the 1985 refrigerator Perry, the quarterback was Jim McMahon. They were like a big, it was a big thing, the 85 Bears. Which is where the conspiracy started that football was all about selling you food, which is now a modern day commercial. Yeah, Uber Eats. Is there like the refrigerator? You know, it's all about people selling snacks.

What are you eating, Jerry, rice? Oh, look, Jerry's eating rice. It's my favorite commercial right now. It's so good. Look, my wife doesn't get that commercial. She's like, why do you think that's funny? It's so good. I said, it's hilarious, man.

But what I was going to say, do you realize how long ago that was? Do you know who won the Super Bowl in 1987? Who? The New York Giants. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Who was the quarterback? Phil Sims.

But I'm just saying, look, I think we read these lines and, you don't you take for granted this guy i mean we talked about my parents which has been an incredible decline just in a year or so this guy's been like this for 38 years which is why i mean you start going back that that that's a in their day that's two-thirds of your life yeah if not more if not three quarters maybe yeah three quarters yeah and jesus asked that question do you want to get well look which you'd think well everybody that was a very, that was a very good question. I mean, only the creator of the universe could come up with it. That's good. And he's like, sure. And what I found fascinating, because I know we're out of time.

We're out of time, dude. Because people brought this up, the scholars argue about why he said stop sinning or something may, worse may happen to it. Because God does have the confrontation. Jesus has that confrontation about your life and they're most of them think that they were going into this argument whether they thought oh you must have lived a sinful life or had done something to deserve his 38 years that's what I read that too but which we know from john nine that's not true call me the low hanging fruit guy but i think i don't think he was taking his new life from the creator of the universe in flesh the right way i think it's what he was how he was responding to it it was becoming about him

I love the idea that Jesus doesn't forget to remind us. He's not going to leave us like he found us. Well, right. And my last point I want to say is because I think the fact that he didn't know who the guy when they said, who healed? He's like, I don't know. I'm good. I think that was a problem.

If you have an encounter with Jesus, you need to remember that. Your first question is it should have been for me of is, who are you? Yeah, you should have said, tell me more about who you are. All right. We're out of time. Well, man, what a great place to pick up next time. Oh, Unashamed. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast.

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