Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1068 | Jase Calls Out Zach for the Ultimate Podcast Betrayal & Wrapping Your Head Around the Trinity

Episode Date: April 3, 2025

Jase has a bone to pick with Zach after discovering he secretly snagged the guest Jase wanted most. Meanwhile, Jase crafts what might be the worst joke ever—but at least he cracks himself up. The guys dive into a deep discussion on wrapping your mind around the Trinity and whether we’re meant to fully understand God’s will or simply trust Him to bring it to pass. Zach announces that his wife, Jill, will be joining the guys in the studio soon so they’d better get their ducks in a row! In this episode: James 4, verse 1 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. I guess, Zach, we finally got to give you your due. Florida is in the final four. So congratulations. We've been ragging you about basketball and all that, but they've made you to the final four. You deserve congratulations. They made it, and I'll be attending. Just bought me tickets flying to San Antonio before I fly into Monroe. I'll be in Monroe next week. Really? So you're going to be coming from the Final Four into the studio.

Yep, Layla is an L.O. worship. They're having an event at the Hub. So we're going to come in for that. Jill, I think, is going to join us on the podcast. So we'll see what happens there. So, yeah, I'll be in town. All of this is news to me. I have heard none of this.

I didn't even know they were still playing basketball. Jason. What rock have you been under this has been an exciting I quit watching basketball seven years ago and never returned I was an LSU fan I think that was a good move on your part Well that's that may be what happened You stick with baseball stick with baseball you'll be good You'll have something to cheer for

We're definitely cheering for baseball I felt like a little kid this weekend Because I don't know when this will be released But I spent the weekend Watching deep into the night LSU baseball because of various rain delays. But it was harder at my age now than it once was. To stay up late?

Well, I mean, I think the Sunday, they played Thursday, Friday, Saturday, the Saturday game concluded it. Like 2 in the morning. 2.30 maybe? Yeah, it was after 2 a.m. Did you stay up that late? Is that a question? Yes, I stayed up late.

Yeah, I'm not doing that. Oh, I, you know, I'm in. But it was painful to watch. But we won. I mean, we swept the series, but it just, it was painful because the first two games, which the one before, the night before. I mean, I pop popcorn at midnight watching it. And the first one, I think it went off at one on Friday night.

Yeah. And so back to back. I mean, it's LSU baseball at midnight. I was giving Missy updates, but she didn't care until she went to bed. And so, yeah, it was just me, myself, and I, and LSU baseball at 2 o'clock in more. I mean, that's fine. I'm kind of conditioned because I watch Dodger games, and they don't start until 9 o'clock at night. So I'm usually a late night.

But you're not popping any popcorn, Al. No popcorn. Oh, I do the whole, yeah, I do the whole thing. Now, but you pay for it the next day. You pay for it. And I figured out, I wore my spring colors today. However, I thought my hat matched my shirt because I got dressed in the dark. And then I got here.

Not quite, you got an Easter vibe going. I mean, it's kind of like, what do they call it pastels? Yeah, you got the tent going. Yeah, you got it going. So I figured out, since you're talking about sports, I figured out the problem with golf, because I had not touched. touched a club in eight months. I hadn't touched one.

So I went and played Friday. And I wasn't planning on play. I was going to hit some balls. And this guy's like, hey, you want to play with us? This guy's won the club championship like eight times. I was like, sure. And so I go out there, and I think, you know, when you play with people that are better,

you're going to play a little better. But I haven't swung a club in months. And Al, even though they all beat me, because they shot around par, I broke 80. I had three birdies. I shot 78. And I thought, you know what? Practice is overrated. This game is overrated.

I took months off and come out here and act like I belong. So I figured out the problem. So then I go back to back all-nighters watching LSU baseball. then we yesterday we went to WFR and I had quite the story that happened there and so

I had decided to play after church well we got tied up at the building and so I come in there on two wheels and I think I shot 95 yeah it's physically to say what about that next round

that's the problem I was just it was shot it was like I'd never play before So I've concluded that golf is not about swinging and all that. It's about expectations. I'm serious. Expectation. I've said it before, premeditated resentments.

That's right. And Zach, you've been quoted a lot. I know those people are saying that now. They love that quote. Did you come up with that or did you read that? I'd love to say that I did, but I didn't. What does that mean again? Preemptive resentment?

What did you say? Premeditated. Expectations are premeditated resentment. So you have an expectation, what you're saying is, like, if this does not, is this is not met, then I'm premeditated that I'm going to have resentment toward you. I think that's James 4.1. It might be. Isn't it?

It might be. What causes fights among you and quarrels? Is that we need some therapy on this? That's pretty good. If you take that and turn it in it, let's see the scriptures here. All right. What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you?

Here we go. You want something, but don't get it. That's pretty good. That was off the top of my head, but I do by the Holy Spirit. Playing the role of Phil today will be Jace with a finding a scripture reference to conversation. That is pretty good. I read one of the comments and somebody said, after y'all, we're talking for 15 minutes. as I just kept longing for Phil to say, hey, let's turn to John chapter 4.

So, Jay, she preemptively struck there. The person that I heard say that initially was Mack Owen, who's been on the podcast. Yeah, immediately. Who works for Celebrate Recovery. And I think he heard it from a therapist, a marriage and family therapy. I think that's how it came down to the common folk. But it's a pretty good line. I've had several listeners of the podcast that I talk to fairly regularly that have quoted it since you said it.

So it definitely resonated. And it is a good one. And now you can have a scripture link, thanks to Chase, James Ford. So keep your expectations. Well, I'll try to simplify what Zach says. Yeah. Because I'm not going to get up on the number one T-box and say, boys, I'm working on my premeditated resentments. Mm-hmm.

But when you shoot 95, you're like, you probably walked out of the, there you felt bad. Well, you missed the pause, because if I said that on the T-box, it would be big crickets. Well, and that's the problem. His expectations were high because he was coming off of 78 because that's the thing about golf. You expect to do better next time. So then they said, when you're going to play next week?

I said, nah, don't call me. I'll call you. Call me later. I realize, what am I doing here? So, but you brought up Celebrate Recovery. So to go back to what happened yesterday. So I met a guy Long story

It's a long story But a guy that I had met Playing cards one night He said I got a guy that works for me Want you to baptize him I was like Yeah okay And I was like

Well where You know What's the story And he said well I don't know But he's in the Celebrate Recovery Program up at Chelsea church I was like oh I said well just tell Rucker

and he'll line it up. So I forgot all about it. So then yesterday morning, I get there and I hook up with Rucker, and it's like, well, I think he had forgot about it too, you know. So I go over to the, do they still, what do they call the class out before the church? You're talking about it just Bible class? Yeah. Oh, the other shame Bible study, yeah.

The Old Jersey Joe was doing that. yesterday. Well, I walked in there and I'm looking around, but they had just ended because they do that an hour before, you know, the worship starts at church. The regular meat, right. So look, now, y'all going to think I'm making this up, but I don't, I'm not making up actual events here. So one guy comes and he's kind of getting in my personal space. So I said, what's going on? He's like, no much.

I said, well, I'm looking for a guy. And he said, who are you looking for? I said, I'm looking for Rucker. And he said, well, I know Rucker. I was like, well, he's supposed to have a guy lined up to be baptized. So I figured they, you know, he might have sent him here. He said, well, I'm that guy. I'm changed.

I thought, there's a lot of people in there, you know. What are the odds that I just walked in here looking for Rucker to find a the guy and here's the guy. I said, well, are you ready? And he said, well, I think so. I said, well, then we need to go talk. So we found a little stairwell. You know where I've been going out right where you walk out from the right. That's been my place of Bible study because I don't have an office there. I go to the stairwell. You know, we call them J stairwell studies. Yeah, that's what it was. It was a stairwell study. And I'm going through, you know, talking about who Jesus is. I think that was my first question. I said, who is Jesus to you? And he's like,

well, he gave kind of a vague answer, you know, and I asked him a few more questions after that. I said, what do you, what do you, I mean, what's your, are you familiar with these terms? Have you had a church experience? And he's like, well, I mean, I've been in celebrate recovery. I have a, I have an awareness of God. And he said, I love this church. It's transparent. And he said, but I really don't know what the Bible's all about. I was like, what do you think it's about? And it was basically kind of the same thing that you would hear. He didn't say it's a rule book, but it was kind of like, well, it's just a guide to living. And that's what he said about Jesus. He's an example that we should follow, you know. So I launched off from there, you know, Jesus is a person. But when we,

and this Bible is about a person. And so when I said the line or read the Bible, verse, John 114, you know, God came a man. He's like, God became a man. Like, yeah, that's who Jesus is God in human form. The word became flesh. Like a light bulb went off. He started glowing, you know. It was really exciting when you see it.

He's like, oh, man, this is, man, that's awesome. I'm like, oh, it's awesome, yeah. You want to know how to live, I mean, or what God is like. So about that time, you know how you feel the present? of someone kind of staring. And so I looked around, well, it's Blake Gaston. And Blake said, huh, this looks real familiar. So he told this guy, James, who I was calling Logan at this time.

I don't know where I got that from. But you are your father's son. So he said, 35 years ago, he said, I was on a different stairwell in this building. And he pointed, he's like, we were three stories up. And he said, I was the first person that Jace, this fellow talking to you, shared Jesus with because we were best friends in school. And I'm telling you, it was a moment. We all just kind of stopped.

And I said, and here he is, 34 years later, randomly bumping into us. And so that was as good of an end-time Bible story. study, encounter, I think God arranged that you could possibly get. I mean, the tone of the sermon went up dramatically after that. But so which, you know, eventually led to him and a family from Iowa, the mom, the dad, and the two sons also being baptized at the, what are we going to call that? the altar call. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so we'll Jersey baptized them and I baptized James, but I thought, man, what a, what an awesome little encounter there. Well, that's why we call them SteroWorld Studies. But it's interesting, Jay's, because that's exactly, I mean, you have swerved exactly into the text we're going to be talking about today from John 5 of exactly how people miss it, which was happening, I think, in the first century. because they miss Jesus. But the weird,

the weirder thing about that time frame versus now is that he was literally standing there. I mean, I mean, you know, we miss him 2,000 years later because of a lot of different reasons, but they were missing him as he was actually standing in front of them.

And in some ways it was even harder for them to, you know, for them to really believe and catch it, you know, which, You know what's crazy, too, Al, about this? This guy's boss, the guy I met playing card game, you know, this is just a worldly encounter.

I mean, this guy just works. They do pools and stuff, you know, put in pools and stuff like that. He comes as a, you know, because this is one of his employees and he wanted to, you know, celebrate that with him, which I thought was amazing. And the sermon was about Ephesian 6. And Bromley taught, who was another fellow that I randomly met 35 years ago, I guess, and shared Jesus with.

And it was just a peace in him coming to the Lord. I mean, there were other people that shared. But out at Camp Chioca. And they were talking about the family unit in Ephesian 6 with the children obey your parents. Yeah, and then he got into the slaves and masters, which I thought he did a really good job of it being more about in their culture, which we've talked about before, kind of the employee, employer. And I thought, man, this is a weird. It seems like a lot of things are working together without a plan. Unless somebody had a plan.

Without a human plan or a human. Exactly. Well, we were discussing. Yeah, we were discussing. discussing this in the baptismal room, the ready room. Like all of us were in there discussing this, which was kind of crazy, which and the family from Iowa had an interesting thing. They were listening to this podcast, the day, which then he said,

we just had to come to Jesus meeting, which I loved that phrase. Yeah. And he said, you and Zach were arguing about baptism. He's like, but there was a line, and I'll give you credit. when you said instead of arguing about whether we should do this or not or do you have to do this it was like it's all about jesus and he's given us the opportunity and i had said a line i guess it sounds like something that i would say that but he said you said that when people realize who jesus is oh they'll run to the water and he said so we ran all the way from iowa to be here

he said make sure and tell zach that so i thought oh okay I'll tell him. So there he goes, Zach. I love that. Yeah. I thought it was... Yeah, I thought it was awesome. You know?

Yeah. Well, it's funny, Jace, you mentioned that because when Lisa and I were heading out of town, we were about to see dad and mom to visit before we headed out. And I had a really good visit with dad. And the lady that's... So there's a lot of people there that work in this, you know, where he's at. And the lady that's the best one to get him to do the most things, according to everybody that works there.

We were talking with her. She came in and visited a little bit, which I love talking to the people that are helping out your family. And she said, I go to White's Fair Road. And I said, really?

And she said, yeah. And so I started asking her questions, but she doesn't go to like our assemblies, but she goes to celebrate recovery. And she just started telling me about our life and what she wanted to do. And, you know, she has a heart for homeless people.

And, you know, she's got these ideas. And so I connected her with Rucker. But that happened the same week. But I thought the same thing. I mean, here's somebody that's helping take care of our dad that has that same passion for wanting to help people. And I told her,

I said, well, this man right here that you're helping us take care of, you know, he's led many, many people to Christ. And so, you know, God has you in our lives for a reason now, too. It's not just, you know, us in your life, you know. And it's just, as Zach said, if it's not a plan of human origin, It just shows you that greater divine quality of how he's looking out and making things happen on his timetable. Just like you said, I mean, you just run into two or three instances.

But the one thing, Judge, you were willing to engage and then God had the opportunities waiting on you. But if you're never willing to engage, you never step into any opportunity. Yeah. Well, it reminds me of where we're at, too. I mean, John 5 through the years, because I tell everybody my advice on coming to know Christ, and then growing as a disciple is to read the book of John every day. And I'm not saying I've read it every day since I've come to Christ,

but I would say most days I've read something in the book of John. And John 5, I've always just had trouble with wrapping my head around. Yeah. And I'm not saying, oh, I got it figured out even now. I think it's a difficult chapter. What's been dip that called about it for you? Well, I think, you know, when you think about understanding how God chose to reveal the Bible in a specific time to a specific group of people, I think this really matters in what John 5 is saying,

but in our 2,000 years later in our modern religious world, I think it's just easy to go to random verses and just pluck them out and then apply it to like something today. And I think when you really look at what is said here, it's just, it's a little harder to wrap your head around. And I mean, well, we can read the text and I'll show you the points that calls me to go. Hmm. Like you heard it a different way your entire life and then you kind of go back and read it in a broader context.

Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I mean, it's like Let me give you, for instance Because we're going to read the whole thing today right now Yeah And we kind of read the last time we were here And I can't remember if we had guests in between But we had read the story

In John 5, 1 through 18 Where Jesus heals this lame man At this pool, at this Seda pool And of course the miracle was great. It's the third sign we see here in John, but what got all the attention seemed to be that he did it on the Sabbath, which opens up the rest of the discussion,

which we'll pick up in verse 19. So that's just kind of a reset and where we are. Well, I'll just wait. I'll give them to you as they come up, Zach. How about that? Okay. And let me read one thing. I didn't get a chance to read when we were setting up to this text

before I read this new part. And that is, you know, because N.T. Wright makes a big deal that Jesus is now that the signs are coming. And by the way, we're only read about three so far that John focuses on, but there are many others. You know, there was time when he's at the templates. He did wonders and miracles. So it's not like he only did three things. I mean, he's done a lot. Yeah, I did the same thing. I tried to make this into, because it does seem like it's a, it's Jesus fulfilling like the new creation.

Yeah. And so people have made this like, well, there's the seven signs of John. Yeah. And some of them conclude those seven with Lazarus coming back from the dead. But then there's other groups that leave out him walking on the water,

since that was kind of an intimate thing between him and his disciples. And then they had the cross as the seventh sign. But I'm kind of with you. The last, you know, verse is he did all kinds of things. If you had written them all down, there wouldn't be enough books to hold them. So, you know, I do think it is a creation

because he's going back. That's what John started with. In the beginning was the word. Right. Word was with God. And you have to acknowledge that, what is that? John 20, is it 22, when he breeze on them, he breathes the Holy Spirit? Did you know that's the only place that that Greek verb is used in the New Testament?

And it's only when you look at the Septuagint, which is the Greek translation of the Old Testament. Yeah. I think I'm right on that. It's only used six times, but it's used every time where something, like when God breathed into Adam life, remember that verse? Right. Genesis 2.

Yep. So that's why NT Wright and others, they're saying this is a sign of the new creation being born. which I agree with that. Yeah. Yes. And that's his point is he's really emphasizing that the word has become flesh. And then he quoted Jesus's statement to Thomas at the end of John. And I never linked those two together, but I thought it was pretty good.

Do you remember when he told Thomas was, you know, he saw the scars and he put his hand on him? And then Jesus said, because you have seen me, you have believed. meaning not just saw him resurrected, but seeing everything he's done. But blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. And I think that becomes kind of the whole central point of what John is talking about. It's just not the miracle man, the miracle worker, the one who does the signs. It's that God is in flesh. And anybody that believes that in that day and since, he says, now there's some faith.

Yeah, which I think would include us, obviously, 2,000 years later. Well, I've kind of thought about it while you were talking. I think the problem I've had with John 5, Zach, to answer your question, which you're going to like this, because I think this idea of the not yet now. Yeah, not yet. Now, I couldn't even remember it. This should be your chapter, Zach. This should be the theme of your podcast.

of your podcast, which, by the way, I got a bone to pick with you about something about that. About the podcast? We can do it publicly, I guess, if it wanted. I bumped it to a guy, and he's like, you need to get on to Zach. He stole one of your ideas, and I said, well, look, the Bible, I thought he was talking about, whatever, I don't know what I thought he was all about, but I was like, look, the God wrote the book for everyone. He's given us all the Holy Spirit. We share this. He's like, no, no, he's still one of your ideas about the podcast.

And I was like, what was it? He said, you specifically asked for, that you wanted to get John Tyson on the podcast. And I was like, well, yeah. And he's like, Zach had him on his podcast. I said, nope. I said, that didn't happen. He said, oh, yeah, did I listen to it. I said, well, he would have told me if that happened.

I did have him. He was coming on this one too. Oh, yeah. So I looked it up when I got home and I thought, that low-down rascal he stole my idea. He's coming on the pike. The problem was you guys weren't recording the day he could do it. It was like at 4.30 in the afternoon.

And so I said, well, we'll get a time when you can record during our recordings. I don't want the excuses. It was a scheduling issue, Jason. I don't want the excuses. I want to know why these. You tell me that, which shows of a guilty conscience in some sort. I'm like, I was so shocked because I threw that gun on the bus. I was like, no, that didn't happen. He would have told me that. Nope, not a word. I could not believe it. So I started to listen to it, but I was so

angry. I couldn't even listen to it. I was, but here is the difference. I want John to come in in person, I think we will have a much better discussion with him in the studio in Louisiana. No, I agree. Let's leave me up with some crawfish. Would you do a fish out of water moment with a pastor from New York? We need to take him on that. That's what I'm saying. He reminds me in a weird way of my wife because like when I met her, we didn't have anything in common.

I mean, that I could think of. Because he's an Aussie, right? Yeah, and he kind of throws like rural America. He lives in New York. City. Yeah, and I love the challenge. I mean, to me, that's what we do have in common. He has a heart to share Jesus.

I mean, I actually, I've told you all this before. I actually did a street preaching. I went on a street preaching venture in New York City. I did it, which I should have brought my cricket button because that's what it felt like from my perspective. But, I mean, I did that when I was like a teenager, 18 or 19 years old. But anyway, my point was, I think this chapter really picks up on that. And what I'm saying about why it was hard to wrap my head around it is I think we tend to do two extremes in our religious world.

We either think everything's happening right now or everything's happening later. It just seems that way on how people view the Bible. I think that's a really good point, actually. And you're going to see that in this chapter is what I'm saying. Yeah, because there is a, there's most definitely in this text. There is a what's happening in that moment, but it's also a picture of what's going to happen. Yeah. There's a, there's a tension that we have to hold.

I heard, I don't know who said this. I heard some young preacher on Instagram. I was watching clip, and he said, the title of the clickbait was is clarity and idol is having clarity is like clarity can you make that an idol and the guy's point was you know we we want clarity so bad but maybe god has you in a posture where he's not telling you everything for a reason and it puts you in a posture of humility where you're dependent on him and i think that what you're talking about jace i've i've experienced that too I want to go all in with one side so that I don't have to worry about it.

Like, is it here? Is it later? And I just want to pick a side and go all in. And it's just, I don't think that God gives us that as an option. I think it is something you've got to hold an attention that you really can't fully get your mind around. And I'm learning to be okay with that because I'm learning to realize that I'm not actually sovereign, you know, the universe that he is. And so I can lean on him and not on understanding. And don't you lean on it the most when you really don't have an answer for something?

I mean, that's when you need him the most. You know, when you think you've got all the answers is when you say, well, you know, I got this, God. Yeah, I agree. I want to hear, though, what you're going on. Okay, well, I'll give you one. And that way, then we can go back and read the whole thing because there's others too, because Jesus starts describing his relationship with God, which gets complicated. I mean, you're like, wait, what?

There's a lot of wait, what moments in this trying to wrap your head around because we're just one person. I mean, we have a body, soul, and spirit, but Jesus starts describing himself. And I think what gets tricky is, before I read the passage I want to read, is I think there's been a debate for ever since the Bible came out on whether he's man, Are you going to focus on him being a human?

Mm-hmm. Or whether he's God. And that debate continues today. Just go read any message boy where that subject is. And I think the most funny moment, I mean, just to kind of back up and give you the context of that, because that's also addressed before I read this, and I've dubbed this, y'all probably heard this. But it's a joke. I don't know who came up with it.

is funny. What is the most favorite verse in the Bible for women? This was the joke, yeah. What is the favorite verse of women in a humorous way when it comes to Jesus being a man? I already think that whatever you're going to say next, you've already crossed over into very dangerous territory. I know, that's why this is really funny. I wouldn't have, what would the comedian say you have to have an element of uncomfortability and danger to be funny. That's why this is funny. That's what John Chris said. Yeah. So Jay's has come up with women's favorite verse in the Bible in a humorous way about Jesus being a man. Are you ready? I'm ready. Okay. Let me see if you figure it out. It's like a riddle. It's in John 11.

John 11, think about what happens in John 11. That's when Lazarus was raised in the dead. Yep, you got it. So when did Jesus know that Lazarus had died? Once he saw him or before? Before. Yeah. He knew he was dead.

Yeah. But that's why he said his, this is not the favorite verse. I'm just setting this up. He says, you know, he's asleep. he first says it, you know, but he knew he was dead, which is only something that God could know. How did he know?

He wasn't there, right? I mean, you can read the text. You can follow this rabbit trail. He knows he's dead. Yeah, he says it in verse 14. He says, Lazarus is dead because they had said falling asleep, and he's like, oh, no, he's dead. Okay, so he knows he dead.

So he gets there, and now we're coming to the favorite verse. And he says, I need some directions on where you laid him. Oh, it's in verse 33. There's the verse. John 11. Will you read it out? Yep. When Jesus saw her weeping and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping,

he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. Then the next verse. And then he said, where have you laid him? And they said, Lord, come and see. Where have you laid him? So, see, you didn't get the joke? Yeah, he asked for directions. You know he's a man because he asked for directions.

Oh, man. Well, now, I'm just saying, how could you know that he died before everybody else? And I say, well, because he's the son of God. And then need directions on where the tomb is. Well, that's because he's a man. I got to say that. I think John, Chris was right about what's needed to make a man. joke a joke but you also have to have

delivery well I looked up I thought you were lacking delivery of that joke Jace so here's what's funny the only female are part of our group Maddie I looked over there and she gave it the Roman gladiator

thumbs down bad joke okay okay yeah I don't think it landed well I think well here's why here's why I think the reason I delivered it the way I did. Because I think more importantly is the spiritual implications of that, I do think in that moment he was showing his divine nature and his human nature. Because he wept in verse 35. Well, he well, he asked for directions. Now, you can, the only

argument you can come up with is that was a rhetorical question, because he does ask sometimes rhetorical questions. Yeah. But it just seems... Well, but he also said when, uh, asking, he said, no one knows the time except for the father. Not even, not any, what is he saying there? No, no, that's right. No, he didn't know when, when, yeah, that, I know the verse you're talking about. So, Matthew. About when he's coming back, I think.

You would think he would know when he was coming back. Yeah, but he says only the, only the father in heaven. Yeah. Knows that. So I think that, yeah, it's interesting because you do see limited of his omniscience in his incarnated state. And also, if you think about the fact that he occupied a human body, I mean, that alone is a, God is omnipresent, right?

He's everywhere at the same time. Jesus is incarnate God. Jesus is in a body that occupies a particular space, a time of space space. He's a human. That's why he says in John 11, he says, I think he actually says something like, let me pull it back, pull it back up, but something about him not being there, like where, at the place where he was when he died? What did he say?

He said, for your sake, I'm glad that I was not there. Well, the question is, well, I thought God was everywhere. Well, this is the point, though, but in Jesus, he's like, Jesus said, I wasn't there. Oh, wow, because Jesus is, you know, God dwells in a body in Jesus. So it is a very, very complex thing to get your head around. Now, he needed directions, is what I'm saying. Y'all are not given that much weight, but to me, someone who thinks simplistically, I'm giving that some weight.

Why is he asking? It seems like a random thought, but you're like, well, wouldn't he know where he was buried? Yeah. So I've always said, you know, Jesus is 100% man and 100% God. I don't know if that's an accurate description. that's just the way I've always described it. I said that yesterday because James asked me the same question. Well, how does that work?

I was like, that's what you're going to have to really study. But he is a man because, theoretically, he has to be a man. I mean, when you get into the book of Hebrews, he explains that. We don't have a high priest who's unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but he was tempted in every way. Well, why is he tempted? I mean, what are we doing here? He became a man.

Now, I have my own theories on how this all happened, which I've said before. You know, Jesus, he had the Holy Spirit. You know, when he was baptized, the Holy Spirit dwelt, I believe, on him and in him. You know, I realize there was a lot of things going on there. God was declaring him the Son of God. But he never did a miracle before he had the same. spirit. And he was, and we didn't read about it.

He goes out in the desert and faces Satan, mono, mono, after that as well, which was interesting. Well, right. And we make a big deal of the spirit not being given yet, because that's going to be covered in John 7. And then Acts 2, the Spirit is poured out, but he also breathed on his disciples there in John 20, giving them the Spirit. But I want you to think about this.

Jesus didn't have any sin. So I think him surrendering in baptism and then God speaking him as the son of God, well, what's the big deal about the Holy Spirit, you know, coming in him and all of a sudden starting these glimpses of supernatural acts? I mean, he didn't have any sin. So it wasn't, he wasn't being baptized for the forgiveness of sins or something like that, is my point, or like John's baptism, being a baptism or repentance. So it was just a declaration.

I mean, he says this is to fulfill all righteousness, which the fruit of his spirit is what's right about everything. Love, joy, peace, patience. I just think that's a factor, but his man, him being human, humbled himself, you know, and allowed himself to be baptized. I mean, because you're thinking, why is God being baptized? Yeah, I think it's helpful to understand, at least has been for me. The John 17-3 passage is kind of a climactic, you know,

declaration of Jesus about himself and about how we enter into eternal life, which he, you know, describes it as knowing God, the one true God. But then he says, and Jesus Christ is son whom he sent. So it's like, what does that mean? I think if you think inside, because it seems like, wait, is Jesus God, Is he not God? Is he human? Is he God?

Like, how does this all work? I think Bill Smith helped me understand this early on because we got in the discussion in my friend group, and back when I lived there, about the Trinity and about how God operates. And so the question we were asking was Jesus present in the Old Testament. That was the big discussion we were having. And we were looking at all these verses in the Old Testament where it seemed like that the Son of God was present. And so Bill said this when we went and met with him. It was so hilarious because he was 70-something years old when we asked him this.

And it was just like we were wrestling with this thing that he had probably understood many, many years earlier. And he said, no, Jesus was not present in the Old Testament. And we were all kind of, wait, what? He said, the son was present. He said, Jesus is the incarnation of the sun. And you have to understand that the name of Jesus is God incarnate. It's the son who, so you have, when you think about God, it's Father's Son, Holy Spirit. That's the Godhead.

And then Jesus, who comes in the New Testament, is the incarnation of the son who takes on flesh that at the name of Jesus, Philippians Chapter 2. At the name of Jesus, every knee will bow and every tongue confess that he is Lord. And so I think that's the thing is when we're thinking about who God is, and it does matter. it really matters what we think about God, because if you read the verse here in John 5, 20, oh, actually 19, so Jesus said to them, truly, truly, I say to you, the son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the father doing. For whatever the father does, the son does likewise, for the father loves the son and shows him all that he himself is doing.

And I think that if you start to try to think about who is God in his essence, 1 John 4, 8, and it says it twice in 1st John 4. He says, God is love. He is love. In order for God to be love, you have to have two things present. You have to have a lover, and you have to have a beloved. Love without an object or of the love is not love. The love has to terminate on something for this idea that if I love my wife,

well, I have to have a wife to love, right? I can't say I love and then there's not a you on the other side. that. So inside the Godhead, this is why I would push back against what's called modalism or our oneness doctrine. It's not really Christian. I know that it's, I know that it will make some people mad, but it's not, it's not a Christian teaching. It won't make any of my people, man, because we have no idea what that is. Well, the God is one person. Oneness. The God is one. He's a saying that the father shows up in different modes as a son and a spirit. Now, God, God is one. He's just, he's one in being. He's a complicated one. He's one.

essence. He's one in his nature. He's one in this. They're not divided. But God is love. And if God is not father, son, and spirit, then he's not love. But he is love because there's a lover, there's a lover, there's a beloved, and then there's the love between them. The lover is the father. The beloved is the son, and the love between them is the spirit. And this is the core of the Christian faith is who is this God? And then out of that love, he creates. And then out of that love, he creates us and invites us to participate in the inner life to become, as Peter would say, partakers of the divine nature. You know what I mean?

Wouldn't you say, Zach, that that's exactly why he created marriage with the first man, the first woman, which is the closest human connection to what you just described, where there's love and there's companionship and there's a spirit and a bond that goes between two people? I just thought it was the greatest. And not just marriage. It's the reason why he gave us the church, Ephesians chapter 5.

I'm not talking about marriage. I'm talking about the church. Yeah. And so it's all the things that we see that God has given us his gift are to reflect what I just said, to reflect that nature of who he is. And then we can actually taste it. Not in fullness because, you know,

as Jason said earlier, there is that tension of kind of not yet now. But like in my marriage to the degree that I am actually becoming one with my wife. and that our love is based on fidelity and it's unadulterated and non-manipulative, non-positioning, to the degree that I do that with Jill and she does that with me. We can actually taste, as a song would say, it's a little bit of a foretaste of glory divine. It's like, this is what God gives you a picture what he's like in our best moments. And even in our kids, I mean, you can say the same thing, because then that's where he goes into Ephesion 6.

Well, since I guess this is just introducing, well, we only have a couple minutes, and I never read the verse that I was going to read. I'll give you the other point that I was going to read that's like the not yet now. And it's right after what you read, Zach, because we're going to have to go back on the next podcast and go verse by verse.

So watch what 24 of John 5 says. Very, very truly, I tell you, whoever hears my word and believe, him who sent me has eternal life. Well, are you getting that now or later? Correct. Yes, the answer is yes. Well, watch how that pattern continues.

And will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. Well, do you mean now or later? Yes. Yes. For truly, I tell you, a time is coming. and has now come. Was that now or later? Well, he literally said now, later and how,

when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. Is that now or later? Well, if I hadn't had done that, the way I just did it, you would all say, well, that's later, you see what I mean? That's right. For as the father has life in himself, he has granted the son also to have love.

life in himself, which goes back to this other point. We were talking about Jesus and God and their relationship. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the son of man. But then the next verse, we get back into this now and later. Do not be amazed at this. For a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out. Those who have done what is good and rise to live, and those who have done what is evil to rise to be condemned.

By myself, I can do nothing. I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, and I seek not to please myself, but him he's sent me. And so there, it does seem like he was just talking about later, but, I mean, there it is. I mean, I think you have to keep that in mind, is a problem of course. And again, looking at that son of man reference, You always got to go back to, what do we say? Daniel 7.

If you're the son of man, go back to Daniel 7. Daniel 7, the picture of Daniel 7 is not an end times. It's not the, I think the word is Perusia. It's not the end times. It's what happens when the son of man is presented before the ancient of days, and he's given a kingdom. He's given dominion. He's given authority. So all that language is right here.

And this authority language, at the end of, at the, the end of the book of Matthew, whenever Jesus gives the Great Commission, how does he begin it? He doesn't say, all authority in heaven and on earth will be given to me one day. He doesn't say that. What does he say? It has been given to me. So he's talking about here, this is, like when you hear that Son of Man language, you have to think this is a whole lot about a kingdom that's here.

And then it does, the authority extends into the second coming of Christ, for sure. But it doesn't begin at the second coming of Christ. That's why in 1st Thessalonians 4, which is the only passage where the idea of a rapture comes up, it uses that same word, that would you call it, parusia? Yeah, the perusia. Yeah, the same word. So it is a now and later. But Jesus, here's the close, though.

Jesus will be king in eternity, and Jesus is king now because eternity is king now because eternity is. now. Well, I think that's the point. Here's the way I'll close with this. Here's what Entie writes. What God does in the present, he will complete in the future, which I think you see both sides. So we'll pick this up. Next discussion. We're out of time.

We'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all. notifications to watch every episode.