Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1070 | Phil Scorched Jase on ‘Duck Dynasty’ but Jase Never Knew What It Meant Until Now

Episode Date: April 7, 2025

Jase finally discovers the true meaning of “hubris” after getting called out on national TV by none other than Phil—though he still isn’t sure he deserved it. Fans of "Duck Dynasty" challenge Jase’s memory of events, even though he was actually there. A mysterious donation of an old, massive dictionary sparks a full-blown research war between Jase and Zach, and no word is safe. Al’s doctoring of Lisa goes so sideways that she’ll never let him try that again, and the guys dive deep into how the Pharisees missed the point by prioritizing scripture over the living Word right in front of them. In this episode: John 5, verses 31-47; Luke 24, verses 13-35 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Three, two, one. Welcome back to Unashamed. It didn't, you know, Zach counted us in today. It didn't have the same melody that I'm used to when Maddie does it, Zach. It's felt off. Although you're a fantastic singer with a great voice, I mean, it was better than me or Jace, but welcome. Oh, yeah.

Chase, what is going on, man? I'm looking at Jay's like mid unpacking and I was he's got to like a It's like he was just flying by and he just pulled a bunch of stuff

out of his bag and it's like hey we're doing a podcast today What do we do? If you're not watching, he has a book in his hand that has got to be every bit of a foot and a half thick.

Maddie called it a monstrosity. What is? You could actually use it as a mask during kind of book. I can't read that. What's on the writing? What's it?

This is, an old book. This was given to me by a close friend to be named later. Okay. To contribute to the podcast. And I will quote them, this is a Webster's Dictionary from 1952. Oh, wow. Did we have more words back then? Purchased by said friend to be named later by just a couple of bucks for a couple of bucks.

This is 19, I think 52. Webster Dictionary. Well, I thought the same thing when I saw it. I thought, well, we've shortened the vocabulary. Look, it actually has a picture of said Noah Webster on the cover. Look at that. I didn't even realize this was here. Oh, look at there.

So if you're looking at me, if you're listening, Jason, put up a picture. If dad were here, it'd be Noah Webster. Well, I'm fixing to get that quote. No, Noah Webster, which the only reason I'm, I was in support of this, famously said, because, I mean, here's the guy who basically created the Western Culture Dictionary. Can we agree with that? Yeah. He famously said that education is useless without. the Bible.

That's it. You would think that he would say, without a dictionary that I wrote, and I have some for a small fee, which now, look, I mean, the only good thing, I guess, about Noel Webster no longer being on the planet is he wouldn't want to know how much they're selling these for now, because, I mean, this is a couple dollars? That's it. Yeah, well, I looked it up. I've actually just looked it up

that the real value of that's about $75. Now, that's why my special friend was actually treasure hunting that I found a treasure. However, I'm gonna... Does that mean he dug it up in a field? No, they bought it at like one of these. Oh, okay.

What do you call them? Fleet market. Yeah, yard sale, state sale, something like that. I have my hair up today, is it? Should I just let my hair down and we talk? No, I can see it, you know, because Maddie's real good with coming up these little sensationalized things that we say. So, like, when you see the unashame, it's like, you know, Jace turns green. No, that's actually not one, but it's like, oh, Jay's going to turn green.

Let me go watch. So Jace gets a haircut. Not really, you know. Got you. Click on this. Click bait. Jay's got shot in the head, and that was a real, that actually happened. Well, the problem is, here's the problem I have when y'all do stuff like that.

Because then when I go to the gas station, people say, man, you're recovering nicely after taking a bullet to the head. I was like, I think you missed the part that that happened when I was like, I forgot how old I was. You were about 10, I think. 10 or 12. Yeah. And they're looking at me like, well, it happened to me. I know.

It didn't happen yesterday because you read it. So, but this, I missed the punchline on the dictionary. This was given to me by a special friend, despite the fact that they could have made a lot of money by then reselling it because people don't realize the value of something like this. So that I could have more deeper conversations with Zach Dasher. now I want to know who the said friend is that's a mystery that won't remain a mystery

until I will reveal it on a podcast coming near you are they being sarcastic towards me or were they being affirmative of me no they were they realized that I do have you know the computer as a backup because I'm I'm pretty sure that the vocabulary

has changed from 1952 you know what crazy when I received this gift, I actually brought up the fact about, what was that word that I didn't know, the initials, the gangster thing? O-G. O-G. That I was deeply offended by people using this, you know. So, well, we're gangsters for Jesus. So, yeah.

Having said that, I met a person this morning, actually, behind a checkout counter that I was. would say has been given the greatest name that I've ever seen. I just thought I've been here over 50 years on the planet. Greatest name I've ever met. And it happened about 15 minutes ago. Had a convenience store. Yeah. Are you ready for that day? Did they have a name tag on? Yeah. I saw the name tag. And oh. Yeah. Because I'm always looking for these conversations. And look, it actually goes with something that we're going to get into. and John 6. I don't know if we're going to get to John 6 today the way this has started.

But you ready for the name? I'm building the drama. What's the name? One. O-N-E? That's what I thought you would say. No. W-O-N.

And I said, One. Now that's a name. I said, you literally roll out. out of bed every morning and say, yep. Winning, I won. But I thought, now that, the genius of parents, what a name. Let's name our daughter.

Did you ask her? Is it a her? Yeah, it was a her. Did you ask her, is that how you pronounce it or is it one? No, it was one. One. I said, I mean, let me get this right. You just wake up every day and you're winning.

You're in a constant state of winning because, hey, you won. She's like, exactly. You could not have met a more bubbly, happy person. And working at a convenience store with that kind of attitude. One. She won. You lost. Sorry, Zach.

Yeah, that's a good name. All right. So, Zach, I expect your next child to be won. one dasher. Wow, there's no more next child for me. Have you ever met anyone name one? No. I don't think so.

There was a girl that I used to be infatuated with on Star Trek and her name was seven. Yeah. Well, her name was seven of nine. There were nine in her little board cluster. That's great, but one is better. It's better. So before, but Jay's book.

My point was about how it relates to the Bible, though, is because, ever, you know, it's like you get into these passages. It's like, you know, God chose us from the beginning of the world. You know, and it's that concept. I mean, you see how parents were thinking, I want my child to remember, you know, they won just by being here, you won. Yeah, I just, you can kind of see their mind working in that. I like it.

It's positive. You're exactly right. No matter where you work, if you've won or if you're winning. Not even working. I mean, if you're just, you got up out of bed. You took two steps. I'm one. I embody one.

I won. That's pretty good. I like it. So one other thing I thought about your giant book and said there is another way you can use it. Because I used one about half that size one time. But it's a, so you only get one shot to do this if you ever do this. And I'm not, I'm saying. do this with trepidation and caution.

But I read somewhere, Lisa had a gangly and cyst. Are you aware of a gangly insist? No. It's on your wrist. It comes up on your wrist, kind of on the top of your hand on your wrist. And it's just a little thing that holds fluid. And so she was trying to figure, you know, she didn't like it being there. It was just a little knot on there.

And she was like, what, you know, what could I do? She was talking about going to the doctor. Well, I just, you know, did a little research. And in the old days, they would take their. heavy bibles and someone would just slam the Bible down and burst the cyst because it's just a fluid sack inside your wrist. Well, I didn't tell Lisa this because I knew she would be cautious about this procedure. So one day she said, let me see that thing and she lays her hand out.

It's kind of like I used to do my kids about pulling their teeth. Let me just let me see this first. Put your hand out flat. So I had the dictionary off kind of out of sight. and in one quick ninja-like move, I just took the dictionary and wham, right on top of her hand, and I burst the cyst. Really? So it was mission accomplished, but the exclamation that came out of her, it wasn't, she didn't curse, but there were many words leveled at me. They were not appreciative of my procedure.

So did it work? Did it actually work? It worked. It did work. The old schoolers were right. but it's a one and done because she's never like it came back by the way and now she won't even let me look at it yeah that's the problem i mean i've had the same issue and i did the same exact research but i went a little further in the research to the medical doctors that said don't do

that i never yeah i didn't i didn't just read the american folklore i went a little little step deeper i got on a little website called webmd there's some you know the mayo clinic so you're saying they have now debunked my theory of, okay. The medical community does not recommend smashing your hand with a Bible. So don't do that. I'm saying it's probably bad for your marriage as well. So don't, don't try that. That's where the phrase Bible banger came from was that.

Really? You may look that up? I just think I made it out. I did look up my first word and this explains why it's so big because on the cover of it, it says unabridged. I wasn't, I didn't have the definition of that at the ready. Yeah. And so I looked it up in my new dictionary and it says not shortened, complete.

So that's the reason it's so big. It's not short. Well, I mean, why would you put that on the front of your dictionary? Well, you know, there's a hundred and, there's around a hundred and, I don't know, 60, 70,000 words in the English language. Did you just look that up? No, I learned this whenever I took a Hebrew class. And I was doing a master's program that I'd never finished,

but I took a class in Hebrew studies. And the Hebrew language originally only has like, I'm probably going to butcher this now, but I think it's around 8,000 words. Really? English language. So that's one of the difficulties that we have sometimes interpreting stuff out of the original Hebrew in the Old Testament because we have so many words compared to just 8,000 words,

like 170 versus 8,000. So they may have a word that has a lot of different meanings to it that you've got to kind of play with it. I don't know if I'm exactly accurate, but it's somewhere around what I said. Listen to this. Now, I looked it up to check you. You said 100 and what?

What did you say? I said 160 to 170,000. Webster's third. New International Dictionary. I just googled how many words are in the English language. This was the first thing that popped up. Unabridged. That's the name of this dictionary.

Together with its 1993 section, so this is 1952, includes 470,000 words. So you were close. Not really. You only missed about 300,000. Where did you look this up? I'm going to look it up now on my... Oh, boy. See, here we go.

That's why, I mean, this is... Did you Google it? Yeah, Google it. There's your problem. Google's over. We're not Googling it. No, I didn't Google it. I just typed it in, and AI sent me to Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

Yeah, that's exactly. That's the Google AI. You need to go to chat GPT or something. I love it how a man just starts arguing with the very thing that he's put all his hope and trust. How many words are in the English language? Okay, see, that's interesting. Because you know what mine says? What?

Estimating the exact number of words in the English language is difficult, which we would agree. But it's generally accepted that there are roughly 170,000 words in current use with an additional 47,000 obsolete words and potentially over a million total word forms. I have some effort. I hold in my hand evidence that you are wrong. There are more. than 170,000 words in here. So, okay, this just shows you how hard it is. Yeah, I mean, it's hard.

We don't know. The point I was making, Jase, is that there was a lot more words in the English language. Well, I got 470,000 of them right here six inches from me. What was your search? I'm just curious how you're searching. Well, I wasn't searching my dictionary. It just, it took me to. But you asked the same question I asked.

I said how many words are in the English dictionary. Now maybe this thing is listening to me. Oh, you said in the English dictionary. No, no, no, no, I put English language. But I think these computers have spies now. And it heard me talking about the dictionary. And it just put up, I didn't know what it. Well, I just saw it.

It said, how many words are in the English language? And the first thing that popped up, as I was typing, I clicked on it. It finished the sentence for me. And it sent me to Webster's... What do you call it? I've got... I mean, I just redefined my search. How many words in the English dictionary?

And it has anywhere from 176. I mean, that's all over the place. The moral of the story is you can't believe what you read on the Internet. That's a nice way to say you were wrong. I knew this would wind up in a redneck conspiracy at some point. It all starts with a three-foot-thick book. How many words are in John? Are we in John six yet? I thought we're- We're in John five.

That's what I thought. We haven't quite. That's a big one when we get there. We're eventually going to get there, but I doubt it'll be on this podcast. But now we still got a little work to do and a little thing called the back half of John five, Zach, because we didn't quite complete that on the last podcast. One of your favorite verses that you quote all the time, we hadn't even dealt with with it, which is about the, you put your trust in the scriptures.

Yeah. And you miss Jesus, which we'll talk about it. Just to catch us up from in John 5, we talked about, we started after he does this healing. And then we get into this Sabbath because, you know, Jesus doesn't do things by accident. And we talked about there are multiple in the other gospels as well, healings that are done on the Sabbath and other things that he's asserting his lordship. He did the same thing with the temple back in John 2. Now it's going to be the Sabbath, which is really dealing as much with law as anything.

He could have dealt with any of it. But the Sabbath is one of those things that the Pharisees took and the teachers of the law. And they just expanded it, you know, and just made up a lot of their own stuff. And this stuff, like to the people that are there, these are offenses that put you in court. I mean, these are things that get you into trouble, you know, if you break them. So he's showing his, his lawyer. stewardship over the over this and so that becomes part of his description and we picked it up in verse 19 through 30 and we talked about these claims that he makes which which are pretty amazing because

he decides to just jump on into it with this crowd that's here and he says the son of man is equal with God he's a giver of life he's a judge he's the ultimate determiner of destiny I mean that's a huge claim he says he'll raise the dead You know, he says that in 25 through 29. And then I made the point that actually Chuck Swindal made in verse 30. All this time he's been saying, son of man. And then he just goes ahead and says, and by the way, I am the son of man. I mean, this is me.

I'm the one doing this. So he says he's always doing the will of God. So that got us down to verse 31, which now he's going to do what any good Jewish, you know, law person would do, is he's going to say there's a lot of testimony. that backs up these claims that I made. And so he's going to hit several of those in this next text. So that kind of catches us up. Does that suffice from you guys as to where we are?

Yeah, I could sign off on that. I've slept since then. So I'm going to take your word for it. That's it. Unlike. Alke's copious notes. He does a good job. So I will say this.

This, and the text is due around me 17, 6, and also 1915, that there is Jewish law that there had to be at least two or more witnesses in any sort of civil or criminal situation. In other words, you can't just say, well, one person said they saw this. Jewish law was based on the idea of more than one. So I think that's part of what Jesus is doing here by bringing up these multiple witnesses that basically defend who he is. And I'll just lay out what they are.

And then, I don't know, Jay, you got glasses on you read the text. my glasses. Yeah, I can read it. I think I'm going to read it. All right, read it. Start in verse 31 and read to the end. The newer NIV from the internet. It's kind of creeping me out now that I know it's listening.

So we're technically sharing Jesus to some kind of artificial intelligence, which is kind of weird. Do you think they could be converted? You know, they need to be. If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true, which is an interesting statement. There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true. You have sent to John, and he has testified to the truth. Not that I accept human testimony, but I mention it. that you may be saved.

John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light. I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish, the very works that I'm doing, testify that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You've never heard his voice, nor seen his form,

nor does his word dwell in you. Ooh, this is getting uncomfortable for his listeners. Mm-hmm. For you do not believe the one he sent. You study the scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. This is getting really uncomfortable. These are the very scriptures that testify about me,

yet you refuse to come to me to have life. I do not accept glory from human beings. That's another white statement. But I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. I have come in my father's name and you do not accept me. But if someone else comes in his own name, you'll accept him. How can you believe since you accept glory from one another,

but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? But do not think I will accuse you before the father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. If you believe Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say? So by my count, Jay's, that's five, well, six, if you include Jesus himself, but that's five witnesses beyond Jesus' own testimony, which, so he's making quite the case. You've got God the Father, who he mentions in two different places there, is also a witness of this.

But, you know, they're like, yeah, right. You know, Yahweh is your witness. But then he mentions John the Baptist again. And then he mentions the scriptures themselves, which by the way, that's more than just prophecy. That's prophecy. That's law. That's history. That's all of it.

And then he mentions the works in verse 36, his own signs and maraxis. In other words, how is he able to do these things? And then finally, Moses. So by my count, that's five separate witnesses that Jesus is who he says he is. I mean, that's the case that he's. making to the folks here. Well, and then the side point is, is these people that he was talking to, they touted themselves on how well they knew the Torah. You brought the Torah, the law, and the scriptures. Right. So, and now, I mean, he's, they're throwing people under the bus. I mean,

he's speaking the truth in love, I guess. I mean, I don't guess. I guess he is, but for them to hear, that would have enraged them. Yeah. I mean, because he's like, you think studying the scriptures you're going to have eternal life. Well, who wouldn't agree with that even today?

You know, that's, but the scriptures he's talking about obviously are in the Old Testament because they didn't have the New Testament or even what we're reading here. So I think that's why they got so angry.

And, you know, I think one thing that we haven't said is they're like, well, what are you saying that Moses talked about you? I mean, do you think they made that connection? They went that far? Well, I think that, yeah, I think they wouldn't have, no, Jesus. I mean, I think they, they wouldn't have it thought it was him, yeah. No, no, they would, but, because you think about going back to even that, the road to Emmaus, I think this is post-resurrection of Jesus in Luke 24.

I think it said Luke 24. Yeah, I actually just went there. So you can go ahead. We were thinking a lot on that. Yeah, it's like, so that, I mean, people can't see it. Like, someone called me the other day and asked me a question about particular geopolitical issue. And they're like, do you think people, like, see that Jesus is the Messiah?

Like, they don't, like, how can they read the Old Testament and not see it? And I think the Bible's pretty clear. And you'll see this again in the, and the, and the, next chapter of John, that God has to illuminate our minds to see this. And so I don't think they really understood what Jesus was. I mean, they knew he was upsetting the apple cart. I don't think they really understood the depths of what he was talking about. They did know that he was definitely a threat to their power structure because that's why they tried to kill him. But he's essentially taking all of the things that they would hold up. Because when you said Moses, I mean, another way

of thinking about Moses is thinking of him as a prophet, right? They kind of worship the prophets, you know what I mean? In fact, when Jesus... Well, that comes up in the next chapter. They're like, well, oh, okay, we can see your prophet. I think that's Deuteronomy. I'll look it up. It's Deuteronomy 1815.

Yeah, but you got the scripture, the five things you mentioned, the scripture, the miracles, the father, Moses. What was the fifth one? I can't remember what you said. His works, his signs and his works. All the things that would point that would testify to what Jesus is saying, it just so happens to be. They claim to hold all of those things in very high regard.

Yeah. But the problem is they can't see how they're all pointing to Jesus. I wanted to bring this up. So because you were thinking the road to Amos in Luke 24, I was thinking later on in Luke 24 when, remember when he showed him his hands in his feet? This is in verse 40. And while they still not, they still do. didn't believe because of joy and amazement because they're looking at a guy who is dead and he's like,

look at my hands and my feet. The reason this got my attention, because I think what we're reading in John 5 is fixing to leak over into John 6. Correct. And we tend to categorize everything because somebody put a number there. Yeah. But because he's going to give this illustration of, you know, where he fed the 5,000, which was basically a fulfillment of the manna in the wilderness. I mean, that is what goes along with that. Yeah. And so, because he just said, Moses, you know, you don't believe what Moses said about me. Well, I think it's interesting in Luke 24, after he's showing hands and feet, and they still

didn't believe it. Then he says, do you have anything here to eat? so because you know dead men don't eat but but it's also i think this idea from manna from heaven i'm the bread of life yeah feed on me kind of thing that we'll get into but so they gave him a piece of broiled fish and he took it and ate it in their presence so which it's like drama filled to me you know they're sitting there watching a guy who was dead slowly eat or maybe he's eating it quick don't know, eat a piece of fish. I mean, that's drama to me.

And then while he's eating the fish, he said to them, this is what I told you while I was with you. Everything, everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets and the Psalms. So it's like, they don't even believe it when they're looking at him.

But he goes back. Yeah, he goes back to the same argument. He's like, remember that time when Moses and David wrote the Psalms and the prophets were prophesying? Yeah, I fulfilled all the things they said about me. And they're like, oh, that was about you? I mean, that's the answer he was looking for. It's the, that's what's interesting to tie back to John 5. He says, you study the scripture.

like you study them. You know the scriptures, Old Testament scriptures. You study them diligently, and by them you think you're saved, yet you miss me, the one they point to. So when you go to Luke 24, that's exactly what he does. He does the same thing with his disciples in Luke 24, as you just mentioned. But if you back up a little bit, when he comes up on the two guys, you know, on the road to Emmaus, and they're pretty distraught over the fact that Jesus had died.

And he said, hey, what, like, what's wrong with you guys? And they're like, have you not heard? Have you, like, have you been under a rock? You know, he actually was under a rock for three days. But have you been, like, where have you been for the last three days? Have you not heard what's happened in town? And they say this weird thing in verse 21. It's not weird, but it kind of shows what they were thinking.

But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. You know, Jesus died, but we hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. But now he's dead. he's been dead for three days now. If you skip down a little bit, Jesus says this in verse 25, and he said to them, O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken.

You didn't understand what was written in the scriptures is what Jesus is saying here. Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory? And beginning with Moses, going back to John 5, and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures, what scriptures, the Old Testament, the things concerning himself. And then when Jesus left their presence, they had a conversation with themselves in verse 32,

and they said, did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the scripture? Then he goes into that room and has the conversation you were just talking about, Chase, but listen to what it says in verse 45. Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures. What scriptures? The Old Testament and said to them, thus it is written that the Christ should suffer

and on the third day rise from the dead and that repentance for forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name. To who? To all nations beginning in Israel. He said, well, what does that sound like? It sounds a whole lot like the great commission which Jesus gave at the end of the matter.

Matthew, when he said all authority on heaven and earth has been given to me. Now, go make disciples going back to where to get the authority from. When he appeared before the ancient of days, which is prophesied about Daniel 7, which is the phrase son of man, which is mentioned in John 5. So all these things are present here in this moment. And Jesus is like cutting through all of the minutiae and the religion. And he's testifying that the king, the king is here. You guys are, you're not seeing him. You're not seeing me. I'll give you one more, Zach, that happened before what you just read. And that was the Mount of Transfiguration, which was a little inside PowerPoint presentation of Jesus, Moses, and Elijah, the same culmination of glory that all are brought together in him.

And yet they actually showed up for the party. And that was just a private show. That was just Peter James and John. but those were going to be the three leaders of the new church going forward. So they needed to know what they were talking about. I think that's why they got the inside look of exactly what you just described. They couldn't see Jesus because of the scriptures, ironically. Right. Right.

They could not see him because they couldn't see him. And my point is I think that what we'll learn next is you can't see Jesus until Jesus says, hey, here I am. I mean, like, this is, that is the motif of the Baro to Amas. They did not understand the scriptures until Jesus opened their mind to it. And so I think that that's, you'll see that play out in John 6th. And so the question you've got to ask yourself is like, I want God to show me. I'm asking for revelation.

I want to see him. I don't want to just to terminate on itself. And I think a lot of times we don't want to see Jesus because we don't want to see that the Savior is going to suffer because we don't want to suffer. And the gospel is centered in a suffering Savior who dies on a cross. And yes, he's raised from the dead, but he does die on the cross. He does suffer. He does suffer.

And that's why that last thing that Jesus said before, one of the last things he said before he died, he said, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? But do you remember what they thought he was saying? They thought he was calling out to the prophets. they thought he was calling out to Elijah because it kind of sounds the same. And I think that's really ironic because he was actually crying out to God and they had made the prophets their God, really. That's what they'd done with the scriptures.

They had made the scriptures their God. And in that last moment of Jesus' life, when he's crying out to his father, they actually think he's crying out to the prophets. So it's kind of a weird irony. I know that's what they heard, but I think it's what they wanted to hear. because to them that was their God. Well, but it's because it was, though, I think you're missing one leg of the puzzle. Because I think their status with God was based on who the smartest person in the scriptures would be.

That's how their leadership worked. Yeah. So it's like, well, we do the same thing today. I mean, just think how much we argue about scriptures. And every little detail, how much you know or becoming in the scholarly world. And meanwhile, it's very easy when you get into that kind of trying to win that battle. You're missing Jesus. So, Jay's, let me read this because you just made such a good point.

And this is what NT Wright said in his book. This is John for Everyone, which is one of the things I've been reading. I said. Listen to what he said to back up what Jay's just said. It is possible to allow the study of the text and of different interpretations of the text to become a substitute for allowing the text to bring us into the presence of the living God. It is deceptively easy to know everything about the Jewish hope for the Messiah and not to know the Messiah himself in person.

And it is all too simple. Indeed, sometimes our academic institutions and seminaries encourage it to use our knowledge and intellectual ability to gain status and prestige among our colleagues or among those who belong to the same part of or party within the church as we do. This is as true today as it was in Jesus' day. And I think that's such a smart point. That was a better way to put it, what I was saying. But that's what I agree with completely.

I mean, I think that they were looking at him like, we know this like the back of our hands, and it doesn't include you. I mean, you're, who are you? Where did you get your degree? Where did you study? You know, which is amazing when you think about, remember when Jesus, when he was a kid? Even when he was a kid. 12 years old.

He said, I got to do my father's business, which he echoed in the previous verses of this same chapter when he said, I'm working and God is working. I mean, he was concerned, not concerned. He was obsessed with this not being, you know, his own thing. That's why he just said, I'm not even trying to give you, you know, testifying about myself because it's not valid. I'm testifying on behalf of my father. Plus, you know what's interesting, Jay's about that is he, at 12, he said, why would you be surprised? Didn't you know I be in my father's house?

So he was still articulating the Jewish concept, which, you know, had been from God. that this was the house of God. This was the only place the presence of God was going to be, albeit very temporary. So he hadn't even begun to then reveal what he was going to reveal as an adult that we're reading about now, which is very interesting to me. I mean, he was true all the way through. You know how it plays out, too. I was thinking of the way I grew up. And you guys kind of grew up similar at different points of our life because we grew up in the same.

kind of tradition of faith. I had this conversation with my granddad when he was probably 15 years ago. And one of the things that we were talking about was what does it mean to be a Christian? And he said, you know, or how do you get to heaven?

And he said, well, you got to obey the gospel, which is in the Bible, by the way. You know, I think what, Second Thesslonians, chapter one. But I asked the question to him. I said, well, what does that mean? He goes, so what is the gospel? And he said, it's the Bible. He told me that.

I said, so you have to obey the Bible to go to heaven. He said, that's right. I said, do you do that? He said, I do. I said, do you do it completely? He's like, well, no, but, and he didn't have a framework, but his, like, in his system, it was that everything that he was trying to accomplish was, we got to make sure that our worship is, everything's got to be like, it was like a formula.

And the way that he interpreted the Bible was a rule book. Here's the rule book on how you're supposed to do everything. And that's what it was. And then being right with God meant I'm going to do all the right things. But I was like, but you're missing the bigger picture about this is a story that we're being invited into, into participate in a life with Jesus who takes us. into the divine life, into the divine nature of the Father, Son, and Spirit. I think that's the big thing here.

And I think that's what Jesus is getting at here. You're looking at the scriptures, and you think there's some kind of formula in here for you to be saved. Or you're looking at the miracles, and you're thinking there's something in that for you. But these are all testifying to me. So don't let your worship terminate on the things that I've given you to reveal myself. let those be the conduits for you to come to me. And that happens, I think, in all of religious circles. And no matter what kind of denomination you grew up in,

I mean, this is kind of what we do as humans. We want to box God in in this way. No, that's true. And, you know, it's like one quote I read. It said, you're looking at the right book, but you're reading it the wrong way. And I think, you know, that's still true today. It's interesting, Jay, because you teased ahead where we're,

going, and I think you're so right that there's all these pictures that Jesus is using and living that's going to strike into the Jewish mindset about coming out of Egypt, out of slavery, into something new, which is kind of what he's preparing them to do. And, you know, as you can see in our text, there's, I call it a fault line that's beginning to grow in the book of John. And it's going to get, I mean, by the time we get to John 8, it's going to be very clear, those who, Just don't believe him and don't believe he is who he said he is versus those who are struggling with believe in it, but then they trust in him, which is the disciples. You know, they don't understand a lot about what's what he's saying and what's going on,

but they believe in him. I mean, that's why they're still there. Some of these other folks, they should know because as he told Nicodemus, you've had all the history. You understand exactly why I'm supposed to be here. And yet you won't believe that I'm the one that God has sent, that I am. God. And so that was the fault line and this this grows further. And I think you saw that even in that original group that came out of Egypt because you remember right when they got, you know, near the

promised land, you remember that most of them said, no, we can't do it. They're too big. They're giants. You know, we're better off just going back to Egypt. And then Joshua and Caleb were like this new mindset that said, no. I mean, God says this is what we're supposed to do. We're forging forward. And so that whole other group died in the desert. But it was the ones who were willing to believe in faith. They were the ones that actually went into the new territory and started Israel. That's what he says. He says, I'm not, he said, but do you think I will not, do you think I will accuse you before the father?

Jesus says this. He says, no, your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. Since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe? what I say. And I think it's kind of interesting what you said there, because if you were to go back and read everything that Moses wrote and everything that's in the Old Testament for that matter, like, how would you ever practice that right now? Yeah. I mean, you can't. There's no temple. There's no sacrifice. There's no priest. That's all gone. I mean, 80, 70, all that went away.

So it is kind of interesting that, like, the accuser is the very thing that they had put their hope in, which was Moses in the Mosaic law. They'd put their hope into that, and that was the very thing. Jesus is like, I'm not accusing you. Look at your own stuff. Like, I'm not accusing you. You're accused by Moses, the one that you hold up above the one Moses pointed to. Yeah, I think it was a pride issue or a hubris issue, which I looked up this morning.

Because every time I turn on the TV, it's recommended viewing, and they keep putting Duck Dynasty out there, which is weird. So I finally clicked on it today. And there was this huge debate over whether we should use hand-carved decoys or just cheaper decoys. Because we were putting so many out, the argument was how would they notice, in a short, the ducks, which ones were hand-painted? I mean, you know, if you put a thousand decoys out, that was what the debate was over. But anyway, they cut to my dad, and he said, he said I was being hubris.

And then he's like, the Bible says pride comes before the fall. I was like, I cannot believe my dad said this on national television about me. And I didn't even know what hubris was. I had to look it up. Thankfully, I had a dictionary. I was like, he was calling me prideful. That's why it didn't offend me at the time. Because you didn't understand what it was.

I didn't know what that word was. When was the last time you called someone hubris? But my point is, you got to think that God chose this nation. And then he's given them the law, and they have the scriptures. And they're basing it all on that. They're like, well, we're God's chosen people here. And we know this like the back of our hand. We're following all the laws, you know.

And that's what he was up again. I think that means more when you look at it like that, which is why I think we get to the next stage when he goes back to that manna and his fulfillment of that. I'm the bread of life. I mean, that's the segue here into this argument about Moses. And look, it goes back to how the whole,

how John started it. Remember when he said in verse 17 in chapter 1, for the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus. Christ. So he's not saying, look, the law was bad. He was saying, it led everything, including your whole nation, to me. Yeah. Which is why I read that about I came to fulfill it. That's why I always have a problem with people going to the Old Testament and trying to make practical applications today without understanding that Jesus is the fulfillment of that.

I mean, don't miss Jesus in whatever the doctrine you've created based on, you know, kind of like we did in the Valley of the Dry Bones, you know, which is, yes, we're going to be resurrected. We're going to get new bodies. But he was actually talking about he's going to resurrect his holy nation from being unfaithful through one, through one, which is a common theme in the Bible. God would choose one for the good of the many. Which I think is a theme in the Bible, which is why, you know, when Paul said when Jesus died, all died. Because he basically, through one, saved the whole or offered salvation to the whole. Well, isn't it interesting and ironic that, to back up what you just said, that God didn't allow Moses to go into the promised land. I mean, he was alive. He was there. He had led the people out. But, you know, why? Because of hubris. he decided that Moses was going to get right to the edge and go up a mountain and see it, but it would be Joshua, which ironically is the same name we get Jesus from,

was the one that was going to lead them into the new promise. And so again, I mean, these things are not accidental. The phrase I like is it's called the New Exodus language. So when you think about what Jesus is doing, it's new Exodus. And so it's an overlay. So when you read about Moses, it really is like a mirror image of what's happening in the New Testament. Except in the New Testament, everything's going to be accomplished. What couldn't be accomplished in the original exodus of God's chosen people will now be fully accomplished in Jesus.

And now we become God's chosen people along with Israel. Well, and I think got to keep in mind, the practical application of all this is because, I'll speak for Zach and myself here. You know, we have argumentative tendencies. We like to argue, which I heard a good joke about that, Zach. I think it was NT, right? I was listening to a podcast, and they asked some crazy question about whether they had a viewer-led question, and the question was, what came first, the sin or the sinful nature?

And he said, well, that reminds me of an argument between the chicken and the egg. And he said, they basically decided, we're here. Let's just deal with it. You just got a good to, yeah. Yeah, yeah, which reminded me of me and you. Yeah. So I think my point is they're literally, just think as a human being, They've been given life.

They're on the planet at a certain specific time. And you find yourself arguing with the creator of the universe. You're on the wrong side of the argument with the creator. Exactly. I think of all the terrible things that could happen to a human being. That has got to be in the top ten. I was one of the guys who was looking at my creator saying, nope. No.

You missed it. Which, look, I understand that because I brought up Dynasty while ago. I've had people come up to me and argue because they'll say, hey, what happened on some certain scene? And I don't remember because I don't watch the show. So I tell them what happened. They're like, no, that's not how it happened. I'm like, I created that.

That was my life. Oh, I know I'm right. I don't care what they edited or how it came across. This is what happened. And they're like, nope. Nope. I saw it. I watched it.

So I think we all have to be careful when we're studying this. Number one, not to miss Jesus. And number two, you know, keep an open mind. There's a God and we're not him. So to quote, we'll wrap it there. To quote a wise man, pride goes before a fall. We don't want to, we want to listen to the creator. All right, I think we set it up beautifully for John 6th,

so we'll get there next time on that shame. Stay humble, my friend. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.