Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1075 | Miss Kay Fed Wendy Williams a Squirrel & What ‘American Idol’ Taught Zach’s Daughter

Episode Date: April 16, 2025

Phil’s old school habit of hunting squirrels wearing only socks left Miss Kay with an unpleasant task afterward and it’s not exactly what you’d expect. Later in life, Miss Kay would cook and bring one of those squirrels for TV host Wendy Williams to try and it didn’t go over well. Laela Dasher Skinner and Reeves Walker, leaders of Sadie Robertson’s LO Worship, open up about how their personal struggles have shaped both their faith and their music. Laela reflects on her “American Idol” journey, and together they explore how this next generation of worship leaders is getting back to the basics of Jesus. The crew reflects on how to praise God in both the high moments and the hardest seasons of life. In this episode: Job 1, verses 20-22 —  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to Unashame. I was mentioning that I was on a previous podcast. I was in Nebraska earlier this week. And it was interesting because we were, they had sent a note. You know, there's people that kind of handle us going places. And so she sent me a note from the organizer of the event. She said that they were wearing all of their board members. because this is a pregnancy center, and all of our board members and the staff of this little small place was wearing camo

for the event. And so she didn't say anything about us, but instantly when I received that, I thought, well, why would they tell me that? Are they wanting us to wear a camo? Because in the early days, when we were doing events, I would always wear camo to the events

because there were a lot of sportsmen's banquets and things like that. So I was kind of my, you know, modus operandi. But I haven't done that recently because these are usually banquets. And so we just kind of dressed in our normal clothes. So I sent a note back, finally connected with the person. I said, do you want us to wear camo? Because, you know, we can win.

And she said, well, that's up to y'all. But yeah, that would be great. What's the difference in me and you? I don't ask. That's all you're wearing about. Well, 90% of my wardrobe is camo. Well, you got camo shoes, like slippers. Yeah.

You miss y'all? Yeah. Yeah. He kicked his foot up. He looked like a... Do you see that, Maddie? They say George on the bottom, so whatever you... Well, I want to tell you that my son...

That was a gift. You actually gave me these for Christmas. You know what's fascinating? What? They're waterproof. Oh, that's interesting. You live in Louisiana and you have shoes. So you think they're old.

They're slippers. Only in Louisiana do you need waterproof slippers? I mean, think about that. But if you walk in any depth of water, And those shoes, they're going to tip your, like you tip your waiters, they'll tip the, they'll tip the shoes. Yeah, but it's like a P-Roe. I would say I'm going to go jump in a lake with them. I'm just saying that's right.

You walk through a yard in Louisiana. If it's a recent rain, it's going to go up three or four inches. Oh, I'm taking out the garbage. Guess what? I don't have to take my slippers off. And the reason I call them slippers, is because when you squirrel hunt, you have to slip and be quiet. which is why dad hunted in socks. And he passed that on to me.

The problem is there's a thorn issue. Yeah. That, remember, he would spend countless hours. He would come in from a squirrel hunt, and he was very successful. This is back in the day when we were living off the squirrels. This is when he was the squirrel commander. There was a pattern.

He would shoot the squirrels, clean the squirrels, okay, before she started preparing to cook the squirrels, or he would cook them also. Yeah. There was a thorn removal. Yeah, and mom would have this bright light, and she would be there with a couple of needles because she would take a couple because she would literally dull a needle on his feet because it was like he had these pads on the bottom.

And she would pick thorns out of his feet. How many times do that does? I mean, it was... I'd say 100? Yeah, I would too. It was amazing. Did you like to squirrel, by the way? You like to eat them?

Love squirrel. Is that a joke? What have you not eating squirrel? I don't know a big fan of it. I have a lot. I would put that at the top of all rodents that you could eat. Do you eat squirrel brains? No, but my mom did.

Mom did. But we didn't eat them because there's not really a whole lot there. Yeah. But she seems to think that it contributed to... You put it up there in the top, to contribute to the what the... He put it at the top of the rodent family. Yeah.

But the chasm is great. It's like they're squirrel and then there's everything else. It's always, when it comes to game, or really even. He didn't put it at the top of the game, wild game. I'm saying what the top of the rodent category. Well, right. But I was about to say when it comes to rodents, it's the same with game. It's all about what they're eating.

The reason you don't eat rats is they're eating garbage and stuff like that. Squirrels eat nuts and, you know, they're eating good stuff. They're actually really good. Don't eat bear either. Bears not good. No, because they eat out of trash can. Why would I want to eat a bear? I went to a wild game feast one night

And they were serving black bear And I was like, I can't I mean, I know what they eat Yeah, because you see them in your chat. You've given us a good reminder On while we have so much friction I would basically after this four minute conversation Yeah

Classify you as a yuppie Because I don't eat bear Because he's wearing an orange hat No, just because you're like, do you eat squirrel? I mean, what kind of? When you say something like that I mean, it reminds me of this conversation. Jesus was having to eat them.

I mean, it's just not my, I mean, it's not in my approach. You're asking the wrong questions. Do you eat squirrel? I didn't even want to answer that. I should ask you, how do you prepare your squirrel? Yeah. I mean, I would say my favorite is they'll brown them. They'll cut them into four pieces.

Brown them, then put them in the oven for an hour, put whatever they put in there. I don't know how, you know. And then they make a grave. out of the dribblings and you eat it over the rock. You just kind of pan fry them to serum and then you put them in your onions and your gravy. But it's funny because they're like a lot of game. The legs are really the only meat.

Well, in the back, I mean, they had a back in the back. But you also have squirrel and dumplings, which is my favorite way to eat dumplings. Yeah. So mom would boil them and then take the water off the bowl like you would have chicken to do that. It's like a dark meat. Kind of like a dark meat. So it's funny. one time we went to New York to do a show,

and I think it was Wendy Williams used to be a person that had a television show. And so mom and dad, and maybe some others were going to be on her show, was she wanted squirrel. So they had sent word ahead from mom to cook and bring squirrel. Well, she did, but she just pan-fried some.

But you're going all the way in New York. So it was like two days before we actually got in the studio. And so it obviously wasn't going to be the best it would be it if you serve it. But she wanted to try it, but she took it and she bit down right on the shoulder of that squirrel that had been made like two days earlier. And she kind of was crunching around trying to eat it. It was so funny because it was like there was some meat on there, but she went right for

the bone on that shoulder. Well, if you don't know the anatomy, it's like we eat a chicken leg, but we know there's a bone in that. But when you're in squirrel and you've never eaten squirrel, you're like, ooh, what is this? It's called. So the experience wasn't very good for it. I thought, yeah, but when you're trying to eat a boat. But it made great TV.

It was good TV. It was funny. So look, we're famous for being outdoors people, and I have a really exciting thing that I'm involved in with my brother Willie. And I'm going to give you a plug because this, what I'm fixed to tell you about, it will sell out. So I'm giving our unashamed listeners. They're getting the previous. So the unashamed audience is getting early. Early Bird special to come to...

Well, I'm just saying. We can't guarantee it's early bird. I don't know what you're going to say. No, look, on May 3rd, which is a Saturday, at Camp Chioca, which we had all... My parents met there. Yeah. Willie and Corey met there. They did.

They fell in love there. I saw my wife there before she was my wife and thought, ooh. So at Camp Chioca, which the Chioca stands for Christian youth camp. I recently just learned this. I thought it was a Native American name. Yeah. But if you take the two letters, the first two letters, you understand, Camp Chi, C-H-Y-O- Youth, Camp, C-A, Camp Chioca, isn't that cute?

Church of Youth Camp. So at Camp Chioca, Saturday, May 3rd, they're having a sportsman's day. I will be speaking. And look what's going to happen. It's a whole day, family fun, live fishing, duck-call demonstrations, a barbecue competition, jumpers. I'm not sure what that is. Those are the things that kids jump around in. They're like to blow up things.

I thought that was just like people jumping around. Petting Zoo, look, axe throwing. Okay. Ooh. That which makes people jump. Yeah. It's not going to be able to all ages. There's an archery competition.

There's also a silent auction with amazing stuff. So I think it's $15 for adults. The kids get in free. Yeah. And it will sell out. But I wanted to invite you. Camp is kind of a special place for all of us. It's 90 acres, about 15 miles from where we're sitting.

In the wilderness. In the wilderness. But there have been so many lives transformed on this 90 acres. Yeah. Because so many years through the years we've done, camp out there. I was a spiritual director there for 10 years. My era was in the in the 90s and everybody's kind of spent different time working there. But now, because of our family's influence and doing it, we get to do a lot of this outdoor stuff, which is really, really cool. We didn't have

that before. This has been a fairly new thing the last few years to actually get in the woods and teach people about archery and fishing and all this just. We barbecue some squirrels. So this is figured out. I might show up and do my burger. If a barbecue, I'll do barbecue burgers with imitation cheese and we can just see what happens. You may win. Let's see what happens. So there's competition. You're in the woods. You'll get first rate instruction of the wild.

So even if you're a yuppie like Zach, or you're just a redneck and you want to have some fun, it's open to everyone. But once it sells out, it'll be gone. So it's May 3rd, Saturday, Camp Chioca. Go to Camp, Chioka. How do you spell it? So you got Camp, C-H-Y-O-C-A.org. Ch-Y-O-C-O-C-O-C-O-G. Yeah, Chi-Yoka.

And you can, I guess you can register there. So that's my fit. Yeah, I'm promoting that today. Yeah. So in various ways. So y'all come out. It'll be fun. All right.

So I know you've got some more to do with that. So we're going to take a break. And we're going to bring in some special guests. Very special. Very special. Very special to that. Bring in the bullpen. All right.

So welcome back. We traded Jayce. He's had to go do some promotional work. We traded him for much younger. Oh, yeah, the next gen. My daughter. My daughter, Layla, is here in the house. Layla's here.

Layla, what's your last name now? Skinner. But I did keep Dasher. So I have four names. Oh, really? Layla Beth, Dasher, Skinner. Oh, wow. A lot of names.

Forget the one name. You're going with four. And then we got my, I'd say you're like a son to me. I'm like, was it be a protege? So this guy was in the college ministry. He was part of our college ministry. He was part of our college ministry, obviously friend of the family. And now these two together are part of L.O. worship, which is why we're in town, by the way.

Yeah. We were in town because y'all did your first live album with Sadie last night. Yeah. Which is awesome, by the way. And by the way, I literally watched these two from the womb, as they say, grow up. into amazing people that love the Lord. Now they're both married, which I want to ask about that too later. But fantastic example of what happens when you have community,

when you have faith, leading your family, when you teach these things going forward. And as Zach said, we were able to even do that with reasons. You know, you become a college student here working at Campioka, all the different ways we've had into your life. So just two great examples of what we talk about on the podcast all the time. It's important. If you don't have that going on in your own family, you don't have community.

You don't have the idea of building a legacy through your children and grandchildren. You have to start now. Somebody's got to start being the one that says, we're going to change that culture, and we're going to do that. And these two people are examples of that. Well, welcome. Thanks for having us. I'm excited to be here.

So I know about Ella worship, because obviously you guys are in it. We've been watching from the beginning. We tell the audience who may not know what you guys are doing with Sadie. I think it's pretty amazing. Because whenever I heard L.O., I thought, laugh out loud because that's what we do all the time at your dad. Yeah, it's an age-old debate of whether it's L.O. A lot of people say low as well. I like low because it reminds me of like, low and behold, you know, lowly worship.

I just think, you know. Gentle and lowly. Yes, gentle and lowly. but it stands for Live Original, which is obviously Sadie's ministry. And yeah, she used to be on the road a lot and would kind of bring in these outside bands. And then what always just kind of had, she always had a heart for having a team that was like aligned with her vision and honestly just like a part of her family and a part of what was going on here in the community. And so then she reached out to Reeves and yeah, you probably can. take it from there.

Yeah, I jumped on. I was working at camp and leading worship there and, like, taking care of the grounds. You kind of oversaw the whole. You lived out there. You were like Willie. Willie was the original. Yeah, you were a Willie 2.0. Yeah.

You were the maintenance guy that took the way. Willie never, he never did the job right. And then they brought in this guy to turn it all around. Yeah. You did a great job. Not quite. Yeah. Yeah, it's like a really crazy story.

But at that point, I was working at camp and started leading worship. And, yeah, I just, I had a degree in construction and didn't really want to do that. And saw the door open for me to stay here and work at camp. and I had just come out of like the roughest patch of my life. Just struggled really bad, drugs and alcohol at LSU. And at like my lowest, just really like the end of my rope, just had a moment of clarity and switched over to ULM like halfway through college. And so that kind of led me to the Lord.

And I didn't know any like singing. being a part of my life. Like music was in my family, and I played piano growing up, and I moved back, kind of picked up guitar, and just mess around with it and had some of y'all just really pour into me and push me to get out of my comfort zone and try it out and just jumped in.

So, yeah, it ended up bringing me to where I was at camp and taking care of the grounds and leading worship for the summer camps and really trying to take camp to this next level where we had all these rentals, when we had renovated the whole space, which I got to use some of my construction stuff, just partnering with Willie on that and my contractors during COVID,

the whole shutdown and everything. But yeah, I just ended up walking through this crazy season where I learned that the Lord was calling me to something bigger than I ever thought. And it was like, I really, it's crazy. I love talking about it and remembering because there were so many hard parts of like working at camp and that might sound crazy because it sounds like such a fun. But like it was really hard like just as I started doing these crazy things

leading worship and like understanding the gravity of what I was being called to do, I was going to doing these awesome stuff, this awesome stuff. And then coming back to camp and like I'm cleaning toilets. Yeah. And at the time, I had one of the, like, craziest, like, studying the word I was reading through David. And, like, he was taking care of his sheep and then going and playing for the king. And that's really, like, I started resonating with that.

I was like, so what I really wanted, like, everything to be rushed. I wanted it to all blow up. And I wanted, like, to go and lead a bunch of people in worship. And I started having these crazy, like, visions about, like, just mass. groups of people just coming to the Lord and crazy stuff even like what we did last night like I've just had dreams and visions about it and so then I had this huge tension and uh I just tell like a quick story that's crazy I some people like gave these ducks to camp like real ducks yeah and they and they like clipped their wings and they couldn't fly away yeah and then but of course

they're like all right somebody gave us ducks so now it's my job to take care of these ducks so I'm feeding the ducks every day. The duck commander gave you the job to be the duck keeper. Wow. So I'm like... There's so much irony in that, right? Yeah, exactly. Can't kill them.

Yeah. Don't kill them. Take care of them. Yeah. So I'm like feeding these ducks and they started like, I would walk down there and I would, any noise I made, anything, like they knew my voice. I'm serious. And they'd come... You were a duck shepherd.

Running to me. Wow. They'd come running to me. They trusted you. To be fed. They knew I was coming to feed them. And like, I'm reading about... And I understand the context of like shepherds back in the day.

Like, sheep knew their voice. And I say that story because it's just so weird. Like, it was just so strange in this tension of like, what does this mean? And like I feel like we're still finding that out. And last night it was like crazy. Like the Lord just keeps showing up and doing this amazing stuff. And every day I'm just like honored that I get to be a part of what the Lord's doing.

And I know you probably feel the same way. But I like that too, that to continue your David analogy, I never thought about it like that. But also even you were talking about having a period where you were, you know, away from what you learned early to then be in your own. own lifestyle and how that led you to nowhere, which is a lot like David, when he went on like a three-year run, you know, where he was looking for the flesh, you know, that led him into the whole Basheba situation. He comes back and he writes Psalm 51, which Lisa and I call, affectionately called truth vomit now. It's my favorite song. Because it's just like, here it is. I mean, it just, it comes out and you feel better after you let it go because you have to, you

held all that in. Yeah. And so only then can you see the clarity of how God would have you shepherding ducks or whatever to get you ready for what he wants you to do. And you look back through the Bible and it happened over and over and over again. It was like Moses, who was ready to lead and man, he's young, he's strong. He knows all the military stuff. And then guys like, no, you're going to need 40 years forgetting how to speak.

In the wilderness. In the wilderness. is taking care of some sheep, and then I can use you. I don't know who said this recently, but they were like, I think it was Brandon, the pastor of our church back in Black Mountain. He said, you know, you're having all these dreams to, like, go overseas

and be a part of this mission work and, you know, do these, like, awesome things for the kingdom, but, like, you're not even making your bed. Yeah, you want to change the world, but, hey, why don't you start with my head? Yeah, and I think, like, that's the story of, honestly, our team is like,

Like when I when Sadie called me to be a part of the team I was literally in high school. I remember I was standing at my locker. I was like about to go to math class. I was 18 years old. I knew nothing. I just knew that I loved to worship God and I loved music. And I had prayed that it would be like something that I really could have a career in, but didn't know how God was going to make that happen.

But I also knew that deep down like I just felt that he was going to honor that desire in some capacity. And I think I was the same way. Like I remember getting that call and thinking like, this is it. Like we're going to, it's going to blow up. We're going to start, you know. And it is such a process. It's a refining process. And it's slow.

And it's good that way. Like, I mean, we've, we've, we've, from when we first started, like the songs we were writing to now, like the difference. It's just like crazy. And it's been slow and it's been good. And it's been constantly like learning how to. Because honestly, like, I remember getting that call. was a senior. And I was like, well, that's it. Like, not going to go to college. Like, that's it. I don't need to go to college. And then it's like, no, girl, like, you got, you got to go to class.

Yeah, it reminds me of, it's actually a quote from Friedrich Nietzsche, who I don't agree with his philosophy, but this is a really brilliant quote that Eugene Peterson later picked up and wrote a book titled this, that long obedience in the same direction. I think I got that right, long obedience in the same direction, which I think when you think about worship, I mean, or transformation to the heart, I mean, it takes it's a lifetime, but I love the I love the last night you guys

sang a song, which hasn't been released yet, so I guess we can talk about it, but we won't, I don't really hear it yet. When does this album come out? Probably close to conference, which is in September. That's what I'm thinking, like, end of the summer maybe. But last night, I probably do singles.

But last night, it was the first time that you guys have recorded a live out. So it was like a big production. We have, I don't know how many people fit at the hub, but it was packed. Yeah, praise God for that too. It was packed. You're praying for that. Yeah, you had all the cameras and everything.

It'll be out on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, anywhere. You guys do have music out, which you got a lot of great songs. Let me say this too. When you said, when Reeves said that we spoke in, I did not speak into you about music. I had no clue when I was your college pastor that you had this gifting. So you're talking about that. Nor did I, who've known him his old life. And so we were, we were, we were,

the early process of doing an instrumental service at our church. And at this time, you know, I was still there. I still was working there. And I come in and literally, you know, they're playing and someone is singing. But I'm kind of off to the side. And there's these polls in our fellowship center that kind of block your view from certain positions. And so you were blocked. And so I was listening.

I thought, man, this guy's pretty good. But I couldn't see it. You didn't know who it was. And finally, I peaked around the point. poll to see who it was. And it was reeds. And I was like, I was stunned. I was like, Reesley's worship. I was shocked to you. Because when I heard you were doing it. And you were great.

I mean, like, God was. Well, I thought, I thought, I thought, was, I said he do. I mean, like, that's, I mean, if you're going to do it, do it right. Don't get some local, local guys. Don't get some duck shepherd from camp. Yeah, but anyways. And I heard I was like, the duck shepherd. That would be a good, like, something. That's going to be something in the future. I planted a seed today with the day with the day.

Are you on social media, by the way? You don't do it. So he has no social media. He's against the grain. Which is hilarious to me because he's like young guy. He's anti-social media. But if you do get on Instagram, that's your handle, that's your handle. That's your handle.

Born right here on the Unashamed. Someone's going to grab that. You should just tell Lydia to change her handle to the duck shepherd's wife. Well, I wanted to say last night, the songs were a whole lot about like the first. I love the flow of the evening because it was a lot. of songs about our relationship to Christ, meaning how he loves us, which is part of the story, right? I mean, I know a lot of times we get, like, worship leaders get flagged for singing songs that aren't all exhausting that are more, but there are a lot of Psalms that are about

how God responds to us. But I love how you ended it, because you ended it with a response back to God. I'd love to hear kind of what y'all are thinking when did you all intentionally put the evening together in that capacity? I mean honestly like these songs it was God just like placing them exactly where they were supposed to be there's a lot of refining we've been writing these for what two years yeah some of them even longer yeah I mean yes some of those songs I guess have been in years and years and years and years but we wrote that last song

just a few weeks ago and we wrote it like we were like we need a a song just like high praise into the night type of thing because it's called songs for the anxious heart we're taking a lot of our scripture from the Psalms because like the key the key of the whole, it is a concept album so it really does move you through a journey of like anxiety to peace

only through Jesus and he's the only answer. And yeah, Reeves can probably speak into that a lot too. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's, I think you're right on. I think we ended up like over the past couple years, we just found ourselves

riding from these places of like really hard seasons that we were all going through. And so then there were a couple of songs that just really stuck out. And somebody that's been like mentoring us on the writing side of things was like, y'all, y'all have a lot of pieces to a really cool concept that I think people need today. Just like this, you know, our title track for the album is Song for the Anxious Heart. So we had, we looked up and we had all these songs from these really like deep, like places of pain and struggle. and so, I mean, I was immediately like that's, I feel like that's so needed.

And we need like this edge of just being real in music and yes, in the worship space, but like maybe it's not always, you know, just a song for church. Like I just see a huge need for like whenever I'm struggling with anxiety or pain. or any of these things, like when I have a song that somebody else has written that can help me through that and just bring me like this level of peace and I can just yes, sing to the Lord,

but also just like be sung over and like just play a song and just breathe and know, like be still and know that I'm God. Like that's really helpful for me. And yeah, so we just like went with it and like all these pieces started coming together and then we got to write with this amazing guy Jason Ingram

and he said something that like really I felt like it was like the like cherry on top of the whole thing and he was just like man I think everybody's ears are so tired

and I was like that's how I feel like the worship wash in the worship yeah in the worship space like I just feel like there's so much striving right now for this crazy huge

production we see it in churches and like this like chase for fame and like I just feel like I'm exhausted like just listening to some of the stuff

like hearing these things that are coming out like we just it just feels like the cyclical like we're just like everything's just in your face and it's just I just want some peace like I need peace. Like I need to feel the presence of the Lord. Yeah, one author said, Bess, he said to be disruptive is actually to be quiet, to be a non-anxious

presence. And I think that's like so true for our time that people do get exhausted. You get exhausted with, you know, with, I think that's a generation too coming out of social media. Like you're looking and everything is big, big, big, big, big, big. But, and I also think sometimes just from a person who knows, nothing about being able to plan or, you know, do worship like you guys do it. But as a recipient, I guess you would say, and participant at the same time, I think about that, like you said, everything is about trying to somehow, when you think about praise, is that everybody's always in the best mood at all possible times.

And it does, my favorite text in the Bible about worship, and it's not, you know, people have talked about it before, but it's my favorite, is, in Job 1. Job gets on the worst day of his life when he lost everything, all possessions, everything he knew at that point, and including his children. It says in verse 20, he fell to the ground in worship and said, and here was his song, naked I came from my mother's womb, naked I will depart. The Lord gave, and the Lord is taken away, may the name of the Lord be praised. And I think about the reason why it's always spoke so much to me is that, you know, we tend to think of worship and praise only on the best days of our life. And even if we're not there, we try to kind of fake it to get there.

But what about the worst days? I mean, are you still able to recognize who God is and still giving praise? And that's always stuck in my mind that no matter how I gather with people or even if I'm just on my own. You know, I do some of my best praising on airplanes, you know, when I'm just, I got to. my noise cancellation to cut everything out, and I feel like I'm a few miles closer to, you know, leaving the planet. And I just have some moments, you know, it's just that's, I mean, because in those moments is when sometimes you make those connections. So I love that, what you're saying, because you're right. It's defined, I love how Paul defines worship. He broads

the definition. Yeah. You know, yeah. Off of your bodies as a letting sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God. This is your spiritual act to worship. It's not limited to, to the Sunday morning. The Sunday morning of the song, which, you know, I think that's what's cool to. Like, the songs don't have to fit into a box. I think that's one of the, we talk about this, a lot of the secular, sacred divide, that we're going to put it into this one category. These are the only songs you sing for the kingdom or for Christ.

But, man, there are a lot of different ways to express through your art, you know, the beauty of Christ. So I had a question for you. Yeah. I want to ask you, because of what you guys have already said about your experiences for L.O. and worship, you had a strange opportunity this last year by getting an opportunity you and Max to go on American Idol. Which in our culture, you know, and I don't know how long American Idol's been on television, but at least a decade.

Probably y'all's all life. No, it was on, it started the year before I was born. Wow. So it's two decades. Yeah. So, and it has produced a lot of really famous. singers now that were, you know, people that have been on the show. Not necessarily one, just were on it.

So I'd love to know, because we didn't talk a lot about it because your dad couldn't talk much about it when you guys were doing it. So I'm curious now as the experiences you're having on the worship side and what, where God has taken you here lately, how would you compare that experience of doing that? What was your mindset going in? I don't know. I'm just, I'm curious. Yeah.

I mean, I think that, um, it's so crazy how even in a year your heart can change so much to like in your desires honestly because I felt like I went into that having this desire to like obviously make it far and then maybe like release my own stuff after and dot dot dot whatever that looks like and I remember going in thinking like like this is it like the same thing with the like Like this is my, this is what's going to, the nail in the coffin for me. I would be able to quit school and do this whole time. And it wasn't that.

We made it through like three rounds and then we're cut. And honestly, like, it was God's blessing and provision that that happened that way. Honestly, even from like just like a contractual side of things, like just being able to be out then and terminating that. because they have a contract with that show and getting to really focus on El Worship full-time. So I think rather than a disappointing experience, it was a clarifying experience for me. Like, I'm not supposed to be in that world.

Like, and at the end of the day, it's a TV show. So, like, there's going to be things that are narrated in scripts, whatever. But, yeah, it was a clarifying experience. I remember leaving and flying home, and two weeks later I got married. Like, it was, like, so quick. And then, like, that next Sunday, I was leading worship at church

and I was just like, man, this is like, or the Sunday after I got married, when I got home from my honeymoon, I started leading worship at church. And then things started picking up with Ella worship. And I was just like, man, this is like, this is where my heart is, like, for the church. And I will say that God is always moving.

He is moving everywhere. So I remember, like, being in Hollywood and being on the show and there were like so many worship moments that broke out that the production team would have to come and be like, guys, you want to be, like, quiet down, like, this is too much. Like, just because people just praising God. Yeah, like, they're like contestants. They went out of the light.

Yeah, like, every day just, like, worship, worship breaks out. And they said this happens every year. And it's because I think that, like, when you get that many musicians together, like, the believers come together. And I saw people, like, deeply touched by that. I saw, like, to this day, people I know whose lives were changed just from, like, getting to experience worship. American Idol also, like, honors Christians really well.

like they they honor the people that like sing like sing worship music so that's really cool about that show um so that was really cool it was encouraging to me but at the end of the day like I really think that anything that I believe that anything that is like worthwhile is going to take hard work and it's not an overnight thing and it's a process like we were talking about earlier like el o worship has been a process and I think that um it was a great experience but I'm so grateful how turned out. I'm so grateful I didn't make it further than I did so that I am free to do the things that I'm doing now. And yeah, like my heart just, I don't know, there's something, even just in the past like two months, I'm just like, man, I agree with Reeves. Like, I just, I want to go back to

what it's all about. And like, that is, it is all about him, you know? And it looks different because, like, I always go back to the Psalms. I got an opportunity to do this, like, residency summer thing where we were studying the Psalms, like deep dive into the Psalms and writing songs from the Psalms. And it's so beautiful. With our friends, Shane and Shane at the Worship Initiative. Oh, yeah. Shout out Shane and Shane. Shain. Shainless plug. Yeah. Shane squared. Shaneless. A shanless plug. Well, I remember like, okay, full transparency. I remember, like, for a season, not wanting to do Christian music at all. Because in my mind, I was like, that's boring.

Like there's these rules that you have to like follow and and you have to like, and almost like it was like creatively limiting if that makes any sense. And I just, I don't know why that was. I don't know if that's because I've grown up in the church. I don't know. And then God started giving me like more language for who he is and for his glory and more language for his goodness. And I started reading like, I did that deep dive into the Psalms.

And I'm like, man, there is so much beauty here. Like this is the furthest thing from boring. Like this is, this is stunning, like the language. And I mean, there's like Psalm 51, Psalm of repentance. Like songs for the repentant heart. There are songs for the anxious heart in the Psalms. There are songs for the people that, like, have been deeply wronged and want justice. Like, and those are kind of hard to read because it's like, God, would you like smash my enemies against Sir Rock?

I love those. Yeah. I got a list of people. Those are called. Mr. Sinical speaks again. Those are called imprecatory psalms. That's what we call those. I haven't heard a lot of songs that come out of those.

That's the next genre. You guys got it right. Yeah, songs of justice. Smash my enemies, crumbled them beneath. No, but the Psalms are so full. The Bible is so full. It's a never-ending well of beauty and of truth. And I'm just like, this is where I want to like draw my inspiration from for the rest of my life.

even if it's not like directly I'm singing like a very explicit Christian like like this is this is the well you know and so American Idol was clarifying to me that like this is where I need to be like I love I love worship music I love writing songs for the church I love writing songs for believers I love writing songs for nonbelievers that pull their heart towards him but at the end of the day it's all about drawing near to him and so yeah glad I did it probably won't ever do it again definitely will ever do it But it's almost like God needed you to take a look and take a peek because you might have always wondered otherwise what the other side would have been like. I think so, too.

You go into a situation. I told the kids when you go into that situation, I try to live my life this way. Not that I do it perfect, but I do try to live my life with something called the Ignatius indifference. And what Ignatius would say is you kind of hold these two options in your hand. And one option is saying, if this works, it's going to be. going to blow up and be huge. It's going to be awesome to have that platform.

Did you give me a, what did you give me there? Crickets. Crickets. Well, just because you, Ignatius. He was, you got to explain. If you hear crickets, that means you got to explain what you. So he's, so he, yeah, that's it. We did this quite an option with Zach is on the podcast.

But this, this actually does help me there because you think. Your mom said, do I hear crickets? She didn't know. I didn't hear me. I was like, can you get me one of those? Oh, your mom deserves one, so yes, you're a good one. But what the indifference is is that if this works, whatever you're doing, and it blows up and the thing, your dream blows up into this big, awesome experience,

great, that's awesome. What a platform that you're going to be able to have. If it doesn't work and you stay small and local, whatever that is, man, thank God I don't have to go do all with that. That's going to require a ton of work. And so either way, like God has people where, like in God's kingdom, you know, Francis, Schaefer wrote a book called this, there are no little people. That's right.

So whether you're the next Johnny Cash or you're just some guy playing down at the general store and ministering to people that, I mean, there's no like little people in his kingdom. There really isn't. And that was something I had to come to grips with too because I thought if I'm not doing the big thing, then I'm not doing the thing that God wants me to do. the problem is is that whatever position

you're in in terms of like whatever success looks like whatever influence you think that you should have or would have that would make you

feel fulfilled if you had that amount of influence guess what all that happens is your comparison level goes up there's always

going to be a bigger dog there's always going to be a bigger ministry there's always going to be a more successful guy there's always

going to be someone who's richer you know and even if you're the richest guy in the world like Elon Musk all it takes

is one you know one drop of of your company's stock, and now you're not that guy anymore. So you're trying to hold on to it. It's just not, you can't put your hope in those things. And like living in that piece, I think is. Well, you mentioned that I love the word you used.

It's the wellspring. Yeah. The words of the Bible, the words of God are Holy Spirit carried along over thousands of years. They still impact. And so what I love about it is, to your point, is that that's the wellspring for any bit of inspiration. You guys happen to have a gift and a talent in singing and music. For me, it's speaking.

You know, so, I mean, I look at the Bible the same way for speaking. I would never run out of something to say because there's so much more than I could ever say. It's our podcast. That's our podcast is. It is. It is. It's the Bible. We never run out of content.

Well, when they first approached us, Dad initially about, you know, Zach and I had a production company, and they were like, we won't feel we want you to do a podcast. and they were like thinking about content. And immediately I said, well, we need to do the Bible because we'll never run out of content. And I remember a conversation I had with a preacher one time, and he said, well, it must be nice to be in a church where your family is in leadership.

And, you know, you've always got job security. And I thought, what does that mean? Yeah, I didn't know what he was talking about. And he said, well, I mean, I can never be in a place more in about five years because I don't run out of sermons. Wow. And I thought, well, you've got the wrong inspiration because I'm never going to run out of service.

It doesn't matter whether I'm at a place I have family or not. Like, it is a wellspring of life change. And the beauty of it is you change. I mean, you guys have been married in the last few years. Was that a big change? I mean, everything you do in life... They're not married to each other. Not to each other.

You're both married to separate people. I want folks to be able to hear... Because y'all have done a lot of music already. So this isn't like, I mean, although I said, I kind of made it sound like this is a new thing y'all are doing, but y'all have a Spotify, Apple. We got it all. It's L.O. Worship.

Yeah. And then YouTube. Do you have a YouTube channel? Yeah. Hello worship. Yeah. So we'll put links in the show notes. And then when you guys do the actual launch, we'll have you back on.

Because I really think our family, the Unashamed family, will love your ministry. Probably a lot of people already know about what you guys are doing or listening to what you guys are putting out. But I'm proud of both of you, honestly. It's like, for me, last night, I was like teared up, looking at my daughter up there singing so beautifully. And then you thinking about that I felt a little guilty that I didn't have the pastoral oversight to see your gifting. So I repent, Reeves, but you know I love you. You are one of my favorite people in the world. I love your entire family.

And I am super proud of both of you guys. And you are doing what God's called you too. So praise him. Thank you. We love you. Thank you. So tell us this in last couple of minutes. Where do you feel like, what's the thing God has taught you most recently that you're using now to do this music and do everything else?

Where's God got you in the moment? I love what you said about no little people because this is like this whole point. There's a verse and I can't remember where and that's awful, but it talks about the mission is to basically lead a quiet life. Like that is the mission. Verse that stone is four. That's right. We were going to write a few weeks ago, this guy we were writing with, with like he's written a bunch of number one hits.

Like he's the guy in songwriting. And that was what he said. He said, yeah, these days my mission is just to live a quiet life. Like schedule is easy. I don't pack my days out. Spend time with my family. I'm a part of my local church, very plugged in. And so for me, like I, that's what I feel like God is teaching me is just slow down,

be in your community. Do not strive. Like where the striving is, that is not where I'm having you. Like, I want, what I have for you. rest. And so whether like this goes, you know, to the thousands or just our community, like it's beautiful either way. And so I'm just trying to kind of live in that. I feel like God's given me so much peace about like those two hands. Like either way. Like, I like, it's awesome. So, yeah.

What about you, really? Yeah. I resonate with a lot of what you were talking about earlier. Just like, I think the big thing that I've learned is that I've just seen how the Lord's just changed my desires and you kind of talked about that was going on american idon experiencing that and it's like this thing you thought and this whole path you saw it's like you knew exactly what was going to happen you had all these expectations and then the lord really just like prunes a lot of that out and like at the start of the journey and um up until where we're at now and seeing whatever the lord has before it's like i just i definitely feel like the lord's just pruned a lot of that out like at the beginning there's, you know, we're just, like, we're all just so obsessed with

ourself. And so, like, at the beginning, you know, it's just like, oh, this is going to be great. Like, I can go after all my dreams and whatever. And, like, little by little, like, the Lord has just shown me that it's just not all about me. And, like, my prayer for the last, like, couple years, as I've experienced the Lord, just pulling stuff back is, like, it's not all about like the big lights and everything and like the striving and my prayer like all I could ask is that I would be used in a way and I would be so in tune with the Holy Spirit in a way that like what we write is just putting new fresh words to what people are experiencing and like helping people draw near to the Lord and like just like like like like

bringing new word like my prayer is that I would just somehow be in touch with a new way a new way to say what we're trying to say and like new words to what we're going through and and like new words to a timeless truth of who he is yeah that's so good I think that's so good and I um when you said everything you guys were talking about you know the song that the pot on my head was the Matt Redmond song I'm coming back to the heart of worship where it's all about you when the music fades and all was stripped away, and I simply come. And I love that story about that song. You know, we all know Madden's what the great guy he is.

And that song was written out of an overproduction in the church, in their church. And their pastor was like, done. We're not doing that for a while. And the first song, they stripped everything down, and the first song they came back out with, they had sat in a season. I don't know the full, like I'm probably getting the details all wrong here, but the gist is right. They sat in a season of,

an aposture of who is God. Who is this king of glory that we serve? And we're coming. Let's go back to the heart of what worship is that offer your body as living saccharize. And the first song that came out of that was when the music fades and all is stripped of day. Yeah, I think they quit doing worship for a while too. Yeah, powerful. Well, thank you for coming on.

And that's what we're so excited about you guys. You're the next gen. And we're super proud of everything you're doing. So thank you for coming on under shame. Thank you all for having us. Awesome. See you next time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast.

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