Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1076 | Jase Puts a Dog to Sleep Mid-Show & Why Being Offended by Jesus Is Your Problem

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

Jase lets slip that even his best Bible study couldn’t keep a special in-studio guest awake. The guys tackle tough questions about the nature of offense when it comes to Jesus’ teachings, and Jase wonders whether Hebrews hints at the possibility of time travel. Zach opens up about the powerful final night he spent with his mom, and the guys explore how the cross remakes the Tree of Life and what it means to truly live in God's favor. In this episode: John 6; John 17, verse 3; Hebrews 12, verses 1-3; Matthew 6, verses 9-15; Exodus 33, verse 13 —  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. I'm happy to announce today that after some intense counseling last night, Zach and Jill pulled through. They're good. They're back on the podcast. So, you know, after yesterday, Jay's, we, you know,

sometimes you have to rip some band-aids off to get into where people are. So what was your take on our? intense I was kind of happy because I thought I got home yesterday and I told Missy I was like

oh we had some fireworks on the podcast and it turned into a marital counseling thing and I was like the biggest takeaway I had

is babe there's there's a way it can be worse for it. See you're encouraging them so I saw it and now that we're in

day time and Zag and Jill are doing so much better after this morning's coffee at my house. Yeah. That I would give you a chance to be supportive, Jill. And I'm going out on a limb here because I don't know. But we've had an ongoing debate with Zach. And so is Jason and I against Zach about Zach's smash burgers about the cheese choice? Yeah.

So I want to know because you're there. You're present. You're a part of this thing. Are you all in on the processed cheese on the smash burgers? Well, I will tell you this. I was anti-the-processed cheese. No way. Didn't believe it.

Which is where we are. Yes. She was an unbeliever. It sounds ridiculous. It really does. Yeah. But it is amazing. I mean, it tastes amazing.

So he won you over with the flavor. But I will say, I have said, I can't fully buy in until you. make them both ways. See, I haven't. That's my point. I haven't compared it to. We've got to get our, we've got, you know, we've got an insider now. One of our listeners is it from the Sargento family that makes the cheese.

So she heard us having this debate and sent us some cheese that's made like that. You're leaving out the real, real word. She sent us some real cheese. Real cheese. I'd like to call this for, from a business perspective. Can we just call it the other cheese until they pay? They got to pay. There's no pay.

Free advertisement. I mean, you can't. Hey, she went out there and sent us stuff, so she gets a measure. That's right. It basically comes down to this argument is the difference in knowing about Jesus. You can know about cheese. And there are products out there that looks like cheese. But when you come to know cheese, real cheese,

cheese. And you see where I'm headed with this. But y'all are working for cheese that spoils. No, that's the biblical type. My cheese never, it doesn't go back. That's the same difference in knowing about Jesus and knowing Jesus. I'm not saying that the cheese I use is eternal, but I will tell you, I've never seen. I mean, he loves cheese so much. He wears that orange hat every day. Yellow, orange. I think it's time to move on.

I'll tell you another thing. I was reminded of a verse. I was trying to be supportive of you. There's a verse in the Bible. You warn a divisive cousin once, then you warn them twice. I think y'all might struggle with being divisive. I'm just saying. I told you I was trying to bring you closer. I'm assuming.

No, you were, no, what you were doing was I had flashbacks of you being the puppet master when we were all kids orchestrating chaos for your own sadistic pleasure, Al. You're right. I do have, there is something there. Even in my older years, I still enjoy watching. I mean, the conversation, even like last night just kept, like, we kept going, like, Al, we'd be out of it. And now would drop a nugget. When he would get bored, he would drop a nugget.

And Jill would just bite every time. Yeah, Zach told me, he did tell me this one, I need to settle down a little bit. Well, we enjoy having you on, Jill. And it's, for this discussion especially, Zach sort of went into the segue. Well, John Six, that's never been very divisive. so this is a great easy passage. John Six has been quite the study. I actually didn't study last night

because my brain was hurting from doing the podcast with you yesterday. And we had a lot of people in our studio yesterday too. So it was like we were performing in front of a live audience. We didn't talk about that, but we had seven people and a dog. Yeah. And look, I just want to say this

about halfway through the last podcast we did, I heard this sound and I thought there's one of these guys who are snoring during our podcast I was wondering if it showed up if Maddie comes out

could people hear the audience couldn't hear I can hear it through my I could hear it and so I didn't want to look because I thought are we that boring I just didn't want to look

but it kept getting louder and louder and finally I said I got to find I got to find who's snoring So when I look, then I realize it's the dog. Yeah. We literally put the dog to sleep. Which made me realize, you know, this dog doesn't have a demon or anything.

It's just perfectly comfortable. It's being a dog. So, yeah, there was a couple from Arizona that I met at church, and they were here passing through. And their dog, they named after Sadie, our Sadie, because the dog's name is Sadie. I think it's like one of these. It's a service. It's a service dog. Service dog.

So you can't critique it at all. If you're a service dog, that's like you can't, they can't say, I mean, that is like protected status there. They were the sweetest couple, though. They were fantastic. I got to talk with them before they left. Jill, you prayed with them too. I did. I got to pray with them.

They were precious. But they've listened from the very beginning. They're OG. They're OG. They are original, unashamed listeners and just precious people. He told me when he met you, Jason. at George. He said, I met Jace, but I just, I was so starstruck, I couldn't speak. I remember.

As you had that effect on me. I walked up. I mean, they, I just, they were just standing there. Yeah. We kind of had a nod, a nod, and it started getting awkward. He couldn't speak. I said, I'm Jace, and they nodded. And I thought, okay, welcome to Louisiana. And then I said, I need to ask them something to get them to speak.

And so I said, where are you from? And one of them said, Arizona. That's why I saw them, which was surprising to me, because I'd slept since then. You remember. I walked in, I said, Arizona, because that's the only word they said. It was an awkward encounter, but I didn't. Well, they're listening, so yeah. We're glad you guys are in.

It actually helps to have a little studio audience. I feel like you kind of figured. Well, they could have gotten much worse had we not had the studio audience. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's right. You all knew you were in front of. I had to behave. Hold it back a little bit.

And then we had first of California. So we had California and Arizona. We're trying to bring the nations together. Yeah. That'll preach there. That'll preach. I'm considering California its own nation. I'm actually doing an event there.

I'll give you details later. I get a laugh every time. Wherever I'm at, when I always say, you know, we parachute in bind enemy lines to blue states. And everybody laughs when I, even if I'm in a blue state, I say that, and they laugh because it's funny. Yeah. You know, I'm just making a joke. But, yeah.

Yeah. Well, Al, you brought to my attention that we had left a cliffhanger. Yeah. They're still tottering on the cliff, many podcasts ago. But as Zach said, I take copious notes. So I left a note for the last two podcasts, but we just, we, Jill and Zach's marital problems. We got into all that.

And so it totally threw me off, and I missed it because you took us. two podcasts, three podcasts ago, to Matthew 6, which was the prayer when Jesus was teaching the disciples. And then we ran out of time. Yeah, and you just introduced the thought, give us this day our daily bread. Because we're talking about bread and John 6th. Well, what fascinating. And I know some of our listeners are like, Jay, she's never tied that point on. The cliffhanger was he makes a statement.

Because look, Al, I told you when you brought this up before we started, that I have, I forgot the cliffhanger moment. Which is bad when you lead us to a cliffhanger and then you forget what you were going to tell. This is like watching one of those old soap operas that my grandma used to watch. And then you know she was calling? She said, I'm going to watch my stories.

Yeah. And then you forget what the payoff was. It was more a kind of Bible nerd discovery and what I mean by that is when you start studying this intensely and looking at the original language, sometimes you stumble up on something that you're kind of like, hmm. So when he prayed, so this is Matthew 6, he said, this then is how you should pray. Our father in heaven, hollow be your name. And this prayer kind of has a little heaven, earth, thread line, which I brought that up the last part.

John three, you can only receive what is from heaven. Ten times in John six, he's like, you need to receive the gift that's come from heaven. And they're like, well, what is? And the gift was himself. Yes, right. I'm here on behalf of my father. It's literally the gift that keeps on giving to your point about the verb. So when you read back to the prayer, Matthew 6th, when he says, your kingdom come, your will be done, well, here's this phrase again.

on earth as it is in heaven. And there's a lot of religious people that are viewing this as a future current. And so, but you start thinking, well, Jesus came to earth. Well, where did he come from? He's making the point. I came from heaven. Remember when he was before pilot? He was like, you know, my kingdom is not from here.

And so you start reading this and you start thinking, I think Jesus came for this, for this earth from heaven. And so he says that, but then he says this phrase, give us today our daily bread, which doesn't look like a strange statement, but that word daily is the only time it's used in the New Testament. Whatever that word is, I'm terrible pronouncing Greek word, but you can look it up and to do that,

that I've told you many times. Bible hub. Yeah, just put in Matthew 611. Maybe I should do that while we're doing it, which is a good Bible study tool. And anybody can do it, and it just puts the Greek. And by the way, the words are all, it doesn't read like English, so it's kind of weird when you're reading it. So I'm going to put Matthew 611 Greek lexicon.

The number one thing that comes up, the top search, is the Bible Hub that you should. said. Right. So it says, give us this day our daily bread. So if it breaks down the word and the Greek words, to give today for the coming day or for substance, which is that our daily, it's basically existing. So I'm going to click on that. It's number 1967, our daily. And it's many, it's mentioned one time, but it's also mentioned in Luke's telling of the same. Telling of the same prayer. Right. So Luke 113 and Matthew 6.11, that's it.

So I started, I'm like, what is this word mean? Any time you see, that is right, anytime you find that a word appears only once in one context, it's always intriguing because it's hard to compare it because usually you go to your other places. Right. And you can kind of figure out what exactly the writer was meant. But when it's only one, you're like, okay, this means something unique to this situation. So the word definitions, though, are fascinating.

It's like what is happening, but also what is coming. And so, you know, what? That sounds a lot like the two stages of the kingdom, right? So the cliffhanger was it makes sense when you hear Jesus say, I am. the bread of life, which is a present, past, and future phrase. So that was the cliffhanger I wanted to. It's a lot deeper prayer because you're praying to the I am, who is the sustainer. It's not just, I hope I get a meal today.

So tie in verses like, it immediately makes you think Revelation 1. He's like, I was, I am, and I am to come. you know, those kind of phrases Jesus makes. I'm the alpha, the omega. I am is he is inside of time and outside of time. That's right. And it's just like. But I think that's the trick.

That's why it helped me understand John 6th. Because I thought, well, he said, he gave a preview in that prayer of what, because their hearts were hard. I think that's in the Matthew version of the, the feeding of the 5,000. it throws that phrase in. It's like they couldn't get it.

Well, why are you? And I was uncomfortable when I first read this as a new Christian because I'm like, what's he talking about? We got to eat his flesh and drink his blood. I was reading the verse, like literally. And I thought, why would he be making a statement like that? Then I realized that I'm taking the side of the people he's arguing with. You were saying it the way they were saying.

Which is why I came up with that question being so profound. I'm like, if I'm being offended by something that I'm reading that Jesus is saying, the problem is probably me. So maybe I need to dig a little deeper. So I thought that was helpful. You know, and that's just a, I'm scratching the hymn of that cliffhanger. But it was a profound thing. If you want something to really sustain you or you want to truly survive, one of my dad's friends used to say that every time we'd say, how you doing? and he had kind of gone the celebrate recovery route.

So his radical life outside of Jesus was pretty much with the same velocity, I guess, as is coming to Christ. But every time I'd ask you me how he was doing, it'd say, I'm just trying to survive. Which we always laughed. But really when you start reading this, I mean, Jesus is survival. You're not at threat to lose anything inside of Jesus. Now I look back on the statement thinking, that's a little low. Well, you go from surviving to thriving.

In Christ, I mean, the promises you will have life and have it abundantly. So it's not that we're just trying to survive. Although it feels like that at times, because you read Hebrews 11, and you got the heroes of the faith. And it's kind of all these stories of how they suffered intense persecution. Some were sawed in two. They were sewn up in the sheep skimming.

They were fiercely persecuted. And the Hebrew writer says that they didn't receive the promise. They will receive it with us together. So there is this idea. So there are times in life where it may not feel like you're thriving. But I think that what is actually happening, though, is, as Jill, I think you said this in the last podcast, that even in those times,

like God is still present. And so we hang on to the, to the, he is transforming us into some new creation, which I think is the whole main point of John 6th, is that he's ushering in the new creation. So he's, like, as you mentioned, 10 times, heaven is coming to earth,

which mirrors the prayer when Jesus says, when he prays, what does he say, that your will be done? on earth, like what? It was just like it is in heaven. So what does that mean? Heaven and Earth coming together. And so where this all kind of fits into what we've talked about a lot is the place where

that happens in the Old Testament, where heaven and earth come together, where is it? It's the temple. Yeah. So the whole thing that's just still like this new, this temple language, even in John 6, you're seeing this temple language. And I think there's kind of controversy over. on John 6 sometimes because there's some phrases in the hair that Jesus says that I think are, I don't think they're very difficult to understand, but they get into big theological debates about

it, and I don't think it's necessary, you know. But he was, you think about it, Zach, God was already showing the early forefathers of Judaism before there was a nation and before there was a temple by establishing a tabernacle that wherever you go, I'm there, which was the whole point of the manna and all the other stuff, is like, you're looking at what you're picking up and putting in the basket, but you're not looking at the one who's raining it from heaven. It's easy to miss that, which is right in front of you, which is why I'm glad Jason went back to this text, because I've missed it before.

I've looked at that as always like, well, yeah, you know, God's concerned about our daily sustenance, and again, doing just what they were doing, putting it only in the context of what I'm physically eating. But you think about it, that doesn't even work in the context. You know Jesus meant more because you don't have to eat every day. We know we can go days without eating. Yeah. I mean, you know what I'm saying?

Oh, yeah, we're not thinking big enough. That was my cliff-hanging moment that Jesus would later kind of throw bread under the bus. Which is, isn't interesting, when he goes out and doesn't eat for 40 days, and then Satan shows up, and the first thing he says is, well, oh, you look like you're hungry. Why don't you turn these stones into bread? he says, hey, the bread of life, you know, the words of God is all I need. That's where he went. What does he say?

Man doesn't live on bread alone. Which is interesting, that phrase, that Old Testament scripture that he quotes, because he doesn't say that man doesn't live on bread. He said he doesn't live on bread alone. So he doesn't diminish the physical world. That's the point that I think is so interesting about John 6. He's not diminishing creation. Right.

He's not saying that the bread doesn't matter. He created it. Well, he's to your point about the temple, he's literally bringing heaven to earth. You talked about the temple, but think about that. When they had the temples and the ten of meeting with Moses, only the high priest could go in there. It was only the Holy of Holies, right? Right, yeah. And he had to have a rope tied on it.

That's right. It's like, but what he was initiating here, and he's basically this idea. of I'm coming and anyone can now come to me. Exactly. That whole protective mode, we're just the high priest or just the... Well, that's the big... That's the debate, right?

I mean, the debate is, is Jesus saying that, because he says in here that all who the father gives him will come. And he won't lose any of them. And he also says that they can only come if the father, like, draws them to come. And so there's a big debate around that, but, you know, I don't think it's complicated, really. I think the key to John 6 is kind of the key to the whole Bible

is that all things originate with God. I mean, Jesus is right. I'm not going to come to him. And later on the gospel, John, he says about the coming of the Holy Spirit that he convicts the world of their sin. And he also convicts us about righteousness and judgment. And what I think he means by that is I'm not going to, I'm not walking around in the forest as an explorer.

and I'm going to somehow discover God. That's not how this works. So God breaks into reality, and he reveals himself to us. So we would all agree with that, right? I mean, that's not a, that's not a debatable thing. And God is not, if I come to him in faith and I'm under his, under a covenant with him,

he's not going to forget, oh, where does that go? I lost him. He's not, I mean, he's going to keep us, right? Now, that doesn't mean that I can't say, I'm done with you. Right. Yeah. I mean,

I think that's where you'll get the disagreement. Because some people, they don't think people do that. They don't say, I'm done. Yeah. So, which they get in,

I think they use some of the verses in John 6th to get there, which, I mean, we're eventually going to have to just read it. Well, here's what I love about the question. You mentioned this started with a question. When Jesus asked Philip, where are we going to find enough bread

to feed these? people. Remember it said he was testing because he knew what he had in mind. And it wasn't just that he was about to do this miracle and feed him to what you were saying, but he knew he was going to explain to him beyond a meal what he was about. And that's what Jesus always does. In the moment of what we learn when God breaks through, as you described it, there's always something for us to learn about him. And so that's, let's face it, that's the life changing moments for all of us. And I hear it all the time about the pike. I told you guys, I heard it this last weekend. I heard three people come and say, when God used you guys to break through into my heart, mind, and spirit, I saw something

different. And it wasn't because of us. It was because we introduced him to what Jesus was. And the counter. Oh, go ahead. And the Holy Spirit is the one, the agent of the Trinity who's doing that work. Exactly. Like, it works to people, but I mean, he has to illuminate my heart for me to see anything. Right. I was going to say the counter is also, like, Jesus. Jesus. is always showing us more. It starts with this little story, this little idea, but it's always so much bigger. And Satan operates in the mode of get them to focus on the little detail that makes them feel, you know, upset or that makes them, you know, makes them feel shame or makes them feel like maybe their authority is going to be questioned. That's how he works. Get us to

focus on the thing that is not even the thing, which is what they were doing, asking the questions. But we do that. When the Holy Spirit reveals something to us that we're like, I don't know if I want to see that about myself. Yeah. I don't want to, I don't know if I want to see that maybe I'm struggling with jealousy because Zach's at the final four game. You know, like, right. Like, actually, the Holy Spirit just broke through. That's what it looks like.

I don't want to see that. I can use that because I have struggled with jealousy before in my life. But no woman wants to see that in herself. That's the ick. Yeah. Like, we'll say things like, well, I mean, I struggle. with things that are still good. Nobody wants to see the yuck.

And so if Satan can keep us from seeing the big picture that God's trying to reveal to us through the spirit and focus on some minute, oh, well, you must not love me because you didn't invite me and you, whatever the thing is, then he's won because we're missing it. We're missing it. Oh, I agree. And somebody that is, I've been reading,

it may have been Swindal in this study, said something really interesting. And they said, what is the difference? Because at the end of this text in chapter six, a bunch of people are going to part ways over all this, by the way. A bunch of them that had been following them around are going to leave. Too much. They're done.

This was the end of them. That was too far, Jesus. Exactly. So he made the point. He said, what's the difference between them and the 12? And because the 12 was having a hard time grasping this too, right? Because he kind of got in their kitchen, too. He said, the difference is they still believed in him.

Yeah. But the other ones ultimately didn't. And that was the difference. So if you put that on us, you say, what's the difference in us and someone that says, you know what, that's just too far. It's a bridge too far for me. I still believe it. Even if I'm struggling with something and trying to figure it out, the difference is I still believe it in whether I'm getting it worked out or not. That's what discipleship is all.

I think it comes down to just us having a hard time realizing that God is using people despite their flaws to show that he. Yeah. Does reveal himself on the earth. I mean, yet last night I saw there was, you know, TV, let's face it, most of it is junk. And all of a sudden, old Tebow was doing a commercial. So I stopped what I was doing. I actually didn't even have the volume on. The TV was just background.

I turned it up. And I only saw it once, but it was basically, he was showing, like, people in paint. and kids that had some form of, you know, suffering that was obvious. And he was like, he created the universe, you know, has, he uses people. And if you realize that you've been sent from God with a purpose, you'll run these people in need. It was just like, join us. And you're like, let's go.

Let's go. Yeah, because I thought that, because people's big question is, well, how come there's so much suffering in the world if there's a God? And there's no God. Look at what's happening. And, well, here was a guy who used to play football for Florida using this platform saying, yeah, that's why we're here. Yeah. God is intervene. You know, not only did he send Jesus.

He's not oblivious of suffering. He entered it as a man and participated in. He entered it, and he wants us to know. And pass the test. Well, when you kind of look at the Old Testament history, what he's trying to get them to bridge the gap is, look, you see, there was a bunch of shadows that was predicting me coming here. And you start thinking about Moses and Noah and Abraham and even Job,

you have this one person that God has chosen to reveal a way. to survive and have hope and promise. And even though all of them eventually didn't pass the test, they either did something really stupid that you're like, boy, they did something great and then they did something stupid. Or they died. Like Job, I mean, eventually he got, you know, all his blessings back, but at the end of the day, he died.

And that was it, and it moved on. And he still lost all his kids. Yeah. But you see now Jesus, and it makes me think of that verse in 2, Corinthians 5, when it says for when he died, Jesus all died. He basically made God through the one, chosen one, his own son, allowed everybody to die to their old self and by him dying for forgiveness. Because he passed the test, which we just mentioned, the temptation by the evil one.

Well, he passed that test. You know, every other person that was a human failed that test at some point. And so you're thinking, okay, well, let's give him an award, a ceremony. And no, he winds up dying, so the rest of us could die to our old cells and live. I mean, that's what St. Corinthians basically five says. And then he now uses us as ambassadors for him, which is why we're running to the pains and the problems and the suffering. And so, and, you know, you say, well, you're not doing the miracles that he was doing because that was a sign to show who he is. But the crazy thing about the signs, though, is Jesus says this when they, because they, they have mentioned a sign.

We mentioned the last podcast today that we had manna dropping out of the sky. And Jesus is like, yeah, but that didn't come from Moses. Yeah, I mean? I mean, and he goes back. And if you go back to John 5, he says, for if you believe Moses, you would have been. believe me, where he wrote about me. And so the point is he's making John 5, which he's

coming to kind of this, to this climax in John 6, is you never really believed any of the signs. Right. You never believed them, really. He said, because they were all pointing to me. So, if you think about there's a term, if you're Catholic or Lutheran, you've heard this

term, the Eucharist, right? And for something to be, mainly the Eucharist means that we caught the Lord's supper in the church that we grew up in. Some churches call it the communion, the Lord's supper, the Eucharist, but it's the bread and the wine that we do. We do it every Sunday. Are the juice and crackers. Or the juice and crackers, you know, depending on who you are, right? But what is, because that's what's happening here in John 6th. He's really laying out the case

for the Eucharist. But what he's actually saying is, is that man is, all men are Eucharistic. And what that means is, is to be a Eucharistic is we take the elements and we ingest the elements and then those elements are then transformed back into something. So I could think about when you eat, when you eat food, it goes into your body and what does it become? Your body. I mean, you're on the, or on the, or less of. I was thinking of what comes out. Yeah, me too.

It also produces some waste. It does produce some weight. But you transform. what you ingest and it becomes you in the end. If you go back to Genesis chapter 1, 2, and 3, the original Genesis, and then what I think he's doing here is a new Genesis. The original Genesis is that man was Eucharistic,

first and foremost, that he was created, and God said, hey, you can have any tree in this garden. You could eat of it. And when you eat of it, you're going to eat it. You're dining with me, because I'm giving you this as a gift. So the original creation, the goal of humanity when God created is,

I've created this world for you to dine with me. And so when man would eat, he would be eating in communion with God and then obviously with... And one of the trees that he was eating from provided something that he ingested that then allowed him to live forever. Yeah, you know...

Exactly. No, that's right. You know the song we used to sing every blessing you pour out, I turn back to praise. Every blessing you pour out, I turn back to praise. We done broke out to worship.

But that's the song that they were singing in the garden. They were ingesting every blessing and then that would come back out into praise and thankfulness to God. But there was this one tree that he said, don't eat that tree. And I think it's wrong for us to understand that as God putting it

arbitrary tree to say, oh, we've got to have a test for the humans, you know. So this is the test tree over here because we got to have the option, right? I don't think that's what it was. I think that tree represents to dine alone, to eat the tree for the fruit for the sake of the fruit. John Piper, he says a desire becomes idolatrous when it turns in on itself, when it terminates on itself. That's what that tree was. It's like, I'm going to eat this just for the sake of It was good and pleasing to the eye. That's why they hate it. But it was to die him without God.

I think it's a good point. But I do think that there's nothing wrong with the point of, are you going to trust what God said or you want to go out on your own? I mean, I agree. But they were also, it came down to that test. Do you believe? But believe what? Believe what?

Can I read from John 6th? It's this verse. I think, you know, you're talking. about, well, who's in, who's out, how they get in there, all the things. And sometimes, to me, verse 40 is the verse that we should probably focus more on, because it says, for this is the will of my father that everyone who looks on the son and believes in him should have eternal life. And I will raise him up on the last day. That's the verse right after the one that talks about, I won't lose any. And let me add to that because when he says that everyone who looks on the

son and believes in him should have eternal life, then you have to go with John 173. Because he defines eternal life as communion with him. So now we're back in the garden from the tree of life. I mean, that's the point. So it's like these, all these rivers and these veins, the way I would imagine, there's all these veins, but they're all going to the same center heart, which is, which is the heart of God. It's communion with God. So the point that he's making in John 6 is he's saying that, no, I'm reestablishing the Eucharist. But this time, you got to understand, we're ingesting Christ. We're actually eating the flesh of Christ and drinking his blood.

Oh, that sounds like cannibalism. No, you're missing the point. What he's saying is, is to commune with, to ingest Christ is to ultimately become, or to be conformed into the image of Christ. And that's the Romans 8. Romans A. Yeah. Which is how you operate.

I'm glad you brought this up. Because I think when you brought up Hebrews 11 earlier, that really explains it to me the best. Somebody asked me one time in a Q&A after I had spoken. Did Jesus time travel? And I was like, can you be more specific? But it was basically in this previous story that we read when they were in the boat. and it says immediately it reached its destination,

you know, after he walked on the water. Yeah. Have you ever thought about that? Yeah. Nobody ever talks about it because it seems weird. It's kind of like when Philip and the Ethiopian unit, he, you know, he shared about Jesus from Isaiah. He was reading it and he taught him about Jesus.

Then he's like, stop the chariot. And they found some water out in the middle of nowhere, baptized him, baptized him. And the eunuch went on his way of rejoicing. And then it says, Philip was basically teletransported to somewhere else. It's like, well, what was that? Was that time travel? So that was the basic part of the question. I'm just giving you the context because I think it's an interesting thought.

Where I went to answer the question was Hebrews 11. Because, so I'll go through all of the, Moses, Abraham, kind of what Jesus is doing here. You know, remember Moses wrote about me, but you're not believing that? And then he gets to the last verse, and I'm going to tie this in with what Jill just said. And then it says in verse, what is it, 39? Yeah, last verse. These were all commended for their faith, which what is faith?

Trust and believing and being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. This trusting, they were all commended for their faith, yet, none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that they only together with us would be made perfect. And I was like, the time travel thing was Jesus' God's grace through Jesus went backwards and forwards, which I was trying to be kind of coy, I guess. I'm just saying, look, his, what Jesus did on the cross and the resurrection, that saved people before, presently, and after. It was like a time travel moment, which is maybe why we count time by Jesus, you know. But then the next verse,

which shouldn't be a break there, but it gets to chapter 12 and it says, well, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, so now all these people, he's referring to present form as in, oh, they're not damn. I mean, even though they're dead, the past. Let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily untangles, which you mentioned about the evil one using that against us, and let us run with perseverance, the race marked out for us, and let us fix our eyes on Jesus, which is what this is really being made in the image of him,

looking at him saying, oh, this is the gift from heaven for everyone, before, during, and after that will be. I mean, I think that's kind of the main point, which is why you're going back to the garden, and I agree. I really think Jesus on the cross, which was made from a tree, was actually the new creation symbolic of the choice

of, look at this tree of life. I mean, the tree of Jesus' death actually became the tree of life, once again that would be eternal. And we mentioned earlier that Jesus, you know, you think about the garden and the kind of sort of idyllic setup there. And then you see Jesus come along.

And before he ever started his ministry, he goes out after that moment he has where, you know, he's baptized. And, you know, you see the spirit. You see all this stuff happens. He didn't go to a garden. He goes to the wilderness. And for 40 days,

he denies himself that which we use for sustenus and guess what happens, he gets hit with the same spill that Eve and Adam did way back in the garden. Here's the evil one making the same pitch in three different ways, but instead of it being a tree and a fruit, it's just direct. And what is his answer every time? No, God. Well, that's why I'm making that illustration about the cross. That is the fruit that God is offering on a tree, which is his son.

And you eat of that. Yeah, like a return to the tree of life that was keeping them alive. And the way that that plays out is that as we ingest Christ, as we eat and consume Christ, then that blessing is transformed back into thankfulness and praise and adoration for him. And I think that that's the part that we experience. That's the now. And it's the not yet. I actually have my Bible, J.

It's so funny you read that Hebrews 1139. And when you're reading it, I was thinking that, I actually had this note written in my Bible. And this is my note around Hebrews 1139, which it reads, and all these things, I'm sorry, and all these, though, commended through their faith, all the heroes of the faith, did not receive what was promised,

since God has provided something better for us, that apart from us, they should not be made perfect. So we'll do this together. And the note I have my Bible is, I call it the suppressing. the surpassing of the threshold of God's kingdom glory. This is the already not yet, more specifically than not yet, that will be realized in the kingdom to come.

So we're hanging on to that. And so when you move on to that very next verse, it gives us like the motivation. It actually gives us the motivation for hanging on when it gives us Christ as the identity. He says, therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and sin, which cling so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfector of our faith. And here's the part that I want to finish with, who for the joy, for what, for the joy? What was the motivation? For the joy that was set before him, endured the cross, despising its shame and is seated at the right

hand of the throne of God. So Jesus suffered on the cross. He said, what was his motivation? There was a joy that was set before Christ that was his motivation for the endurance of suffering on the cross. He'd say, so what should our motivation be for suffering for the joy that's set before us? Well, what is that joy? And that joy is that we are going to be, like we are going to be one with God. We are one with God because of what's called the finished work of Christ of what he did on the cross. Christ had that. mind for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believe it in him should not perish but have eternal life that's the joy he had

something in mind what did he have in mind union with his creation that's genesis dwelling with his people dwell with his people it's it's the genetic language it is the garden of Eden all over he's I'm going back I'm going to accomplish what they could not accomplish in the garden what they ruined in the garden I'm going to accomplish it on the cross and to try to live life outside side of the presence of God. That is hell. I think that is what,

to try to orchestrate your life without the bread of life, without his presence, that is hell. Yeah. That's what I think. And I was thinking of Moses. I think Moses got that. It's interesting how many times the New Testament refers to Moses. One of my favorite encounters with Moses and the Lord is in Exodus 33.

This is right after, you know, the Israelites messed it up. and he came down with the Ten Commandments. They had screwed it up. He breaks them. And so now the Lord's telling him to leave Mount Sinai. That we're going to do something different. I'm going to initiate something new. And so Moses is worried about leaving. And he says, now therefore, if I, this is Exodus 33, verse 13.

Now therefore, if I found favor in your sight, please show me now your ways that I may know you in order to find favor in your site. Consider, too, that this nation is your people. said, my presence will go with you and I will give you rest. And he said to him, if your presence will not go with me, do not bring us up from here. For how shall it be known that I found favor in your sight? I and your people. Is it not in your going with us so that we are distinct? I and your people from every other people on the face of the earth. And I love this scripture so much because what Moses was saying is, I don't want to go without you. Do not send me anywhere that you. You know,

your presence isn't going with me. Yeah. And this is Moses. He could have, I mean, he was the guy, you know, but he did not consider the things he had accomplished to be worth anything outside the presence, outside of the presence of God. Right. Yeah, that's the part about this, John Six, like, if you get into it,

and, I mean, I think it's fine to, like, try to pull out little nuggets about, you know, satirology or whatever. But at the end of the day, I mean, this is about. What is soteriology, Roman? Like the, it's like the, like the, like the doctrines of salvation. Like how, like, think bigger. You got to think bigger. We're talking about coming to know in the most intimate, not just no,

becoming one with the creator of the cosmos. Like we're being, I mean, like union with Christ. I'm like with Christ, union with Christ, that's a big deal. It's like, man, we got to, you got to think bigger. I mean, you have to think bigger. That's the picture that's being painted here by Jesus. And I think that they kept going back to the cisterns. Well, we got to hold it in our doctrines.

We got to hold it in our thing. We got to pour it in here. And Jesus is like, I'm trying to tell you, this is, boys, y'all need some new wine skins. This is, this will burst. You need a different kind of bread, which is why I went to that Matthew 6 because it was like, this is about your existence. Yeah.

You're in eternal. That's why he's using eternal life here. But in prayer, it was the same concept. I love you read that in Exodus and could have made me think about Duteronomy 7. Again, Moses writing, he said, the Lord did not set his affection on you, speaking of the Israelites, because they're about now, they're looking into going to the promised land, and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples. For you were the fewest of all the people, but it was because the Lord loved you and kept

the oath he swore to your forefathers that he brought you out with a mighty hand. talks about, you know, delivering them from Egypt. I love the idea that the only thing special about any of us is if we recognize the love of God. Absolutely. I mean, that's the only thing that makes us special is to realize that. So many times we think there's something unique about us, and that was where Moses was in that moment.

He said, the only thing great about it, you is if you recognize God loves you. That's exactly right. And when you do that, then all of a sudden that changes everything. It changes perspective. And you were using the word in jest. I was saying the word indwell, which is the exact same thing when the Holy Spirit comes in. Yeah.

That becomes that same process you're talking about. And that only happens when you believe who Jesus is and that he is who he says he was. And therefore he says your spirit indwells you in jest the more of you. The only way you can see more of Jesus is to have the Holy Spirit living in you to expose you to more Jesus. And that's the prevention, by the way, of not becoming stale in your faith. Because I thought about this a lot. I saw someone put on Instagram the other day about David. And they were talking about how he were written, like, so much of the Psalms.

And I forgot which one they pulled out. But it was like, man, who ever wrote that line was, that dude was connected with God? He's like, hey, the same guy that wrote this. Also, later on, cheated on his wife, murdered a guy. And he's like, man, you can't live on yesterday's spiritual wins. And I thought, man, I want to finish strong. Yeah. I don't want to live on the encounter I had with Jesus 20 years ago.

Man, I want more of him today. And it's because the Holy Spirit's going to live in bodies now, that God's going to take up residence in our human bodies, that we actually, as time progresses, we can actually grow closer and experience his presence even more. And my hope is that when I'm on my deathbed, when I'm at the end of my journey, when I'm in that state, like where my mom was when she,

I mean, at the end of her life, like there's just a frail body left. And I remember going in there the night before she died, and I just sang script. I just sang that I put on some Shane and Shane and some Alan Jackson. She loved the Precious Memories. A gospel.

And I just, and she couldn't communicate anymore. And half the time, I'm like, I don't even know she's aware of what's going on. But when I played them songs, you know what she did? Just tears.

I could look in her eyes and I was like, she's ready to go. Yeah. She's ready to go. Because you were in touch with the spirit that's connected the Holy Spirit. But that's a life well lived. That's exactly.

And so that's what, that's what, I think the practical question is, what is a day in your life without Jesus? Yeah. That's a good. What is it? Nothing good. It's a waste.

It's a waste. It's a waste. And you're wasting, you know, the food that he's giving you. Well, and we're out of time. I know. I actually wanted to read the text, but maybe we've talked about it so much that the next time we can read it. Jill's got a close. I'm not a scripture.

This was in my Bible. But I think it's... You get the last word, Jill. It is fitting. From Psalm 8110, I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt. Open your mouth wide and I will fill it. There you go. That'll eat.

That'll preach. Thank you, Jill. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.