Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 1086 | Jase Gets the Day Off of a Lifetime & Zach Gets a Frantic Call About His Son’s Accident

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

Jase’s unexpected day off takes a wild turn when a once-in-a-lifetime moment leaves even his own family in disbelief—and Jep demands photo evidence. Zach gets a phone call that sends his world spinning, and Jase is forced to weigh in from both a brotherly and biblical perspective. The guys wrestle with the weight of sacrifice, the power of the blood, and how Jesus didn’t just come to save us from hell, but to bring heaven to earth. In this episode: John 7, Leviticus 17, verses 8-11; Hebrews 7, verses 25-26; Hebrews 9, verse 24— Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. We've been reliving old episodes here before we got started today, which has been fun. We weren't. I mean, people ask us all the time. They hear you have a podcast, and they're like, oh, I'll listen to one. Which one do you recommend? I'm like, it's like saying, which one of my kids? Which one of my kids are really about? thousand kids. If I was Solomon with a thousand wives. Yeah. And what they say, it was, we were talking about it because our, I call her our fat counselor, but our person from PhD that talks to you every week about the diet, she wanted to listen to a podcast. And so she asked me, and a lot of people have asked me this, they're like, well, which one stands out the most?

You know, what's the one that, and I'm like, I can't. So I just send a note to Maddie. I was like, Maddie, please send me like two or three good podcasts, because I don't even know where to begin. And that led us into a... Well, you could say, each one is born in the image of God like humans. Each one is special in their own special way. It's hard to choose a favor. So you heard a little bit of what happened to me.

I had a viral sensation in the real world. When I say, because I don't do social media like most humans in that realm, But we had a real life viral sensation. And I'll say this before you tell the story, because I got, it was a message, because I hadn't played golf in a couple years. It's been a minute. But I got a message from our old golfing buddy,

the old team, you know. The old team. And I was like, man, I hadn't talked to these guys in like years. And then there's a video of you. And so I'll let you tell the story. It was crazy because yesterday I was supposed to film for, the new Duck Dynasty show. I was wondering if they were,

I heard you were going to be on it. I'm like, no, right now we're establishing a relationship here because they came to me a month ago. I did one scene with them, so I'm on there somewhere, which I'm not sure that's going to be a good thing or a bad thing. We'll see when it comes out. But, so, you know, they,

I'm a busy guy. They're busy. So we carve out. two days in a week, which was a Tuesday and a Thursday, yesterday was Tuesday to film. You know, they won't, they, oh, I can't give away the details.

But, uh, so, all right, so we put that on the calendar. And the night before, Monday night, about 10.30 at night, I get a message from my assistant, which is Mrs. Ann, saying, they have postponed

that film for you tomorrow. I'm like, what? They said they'll try to figure something out next week. I'm like, no, wait a minute. Next week's tied up. I mean, it really is. I'm like, these people think I can just, you know,

I'm sitting here on the edge of my seat, ready to go do this. So then, you know, I wake up the next morning. I literally am off. I mean, missing I were making jokes about it, I was like, what are you going to do today, you know? So we're having kind of fun with it and I was getting a little R&R. Well, about noon, I get a text from the guy

I used to play in golf tournaments with. I mean, I played, what, three times this year? And that was after about a seven-month layoff. He's like, hey, we're playing at 12.50, you know. But I'm looking like, well, it's noon now, you know. I'm still in my jammies, not really. But I mean, so I scramble, because, I mean, it takes 20 minutes. to get there.

I was like, I'm in. I mean, I just, maybe this is why they cancel. I was supposed to play golf today. I was kind of,

you know, joking around with missing. She's like, go have fun. Which, by the way, we call him Mickey FedEx because he worked,

or I guess he still does for FedEx. And so it's like everybody else, that becomes your name for life. And so he's always been. Well, and he was telling me he's fixing to retire,

which shows you how much older everyone is done. But then I'm like, but what will we call you now? That's right. What we call you, Mickey, former fan? I was like, the nickname's getting too weird here. So I go up there, you know, hit a few balls before rush out there, get on the first tee, it's a par five, hit the ball out right down the middle.

Like you'd never live. About 300. Like you'd never live. I mean, just a ball. In fact, it was like, whoa. You've been practicing? like, yep, I just got through about five minutes of just donking the ball around the range, you know, hoping I didn't hit someone to my right or left.

But so you say, oh, perfect drive. You're going to go for the green one. I got up there and I had a little downhill lie. I said, I'm being coy. It was severe. But I was only like 210 yards to the hole, so I'm like, well, I'm going for it. But my game is not in a place where you're trying to take a five-wood. but off a downhill line.

You should have been working on just working in this. So a few strokes later, I made a big snowman, which is an eight on a par five. Triple boge. That's how my round started. After a 300 yards. You know,

I'm going to the number two T and I thought, why did I do this? I don't play enough golf to come out here in a short moments notice. So I, you know, now I'm just like, you know how you're psychologically? I just went and took the T-box.

because I'm like, let's just get this out of it, you know. Forget about who shot better than you. Put tea in the ground. I'm like, what's the yards? 159. 100 is a par 3, 159 yards. Well, I... It's formerly number 7.

Now it's number 2. Yeah. So I had a 7 iron, and I thought, you know, the wind's kind of with us, but the P.m. was in the front. I was like, I'm going to try to hit a little knockdown. So here I go again, you know, trying to create a shot that I haven't practiced in a year. It a little knock down in front of the green, you know, maybe because it was hard to get close to the pen because it was in the front. I hit this shot.

Well, it's, you know, I look up and I'm like, things going right toward the hole. And I just kind of pose there because I thought, enjoy this because that's probably as good a ball as I'm on hit today, you know. The thing hit, bounced up. Well, it was on the green and it was like going toward the hole. And one of my playing partners said, go in the hole. As soon as he said that. boop disappeared and i was like yeah i turned around it was bedlam they were high-fiving falling down and then i realized i just made a whole-in-one-one you know i mean that was only my third in my life

i've never done it yeah yeah so uh yeah that happened so what was funny about it of course we didn't film it because why would you have i just read an eight yeah nobody's going to be filming you And so, and I had talked to my buddy Barrett from Kansas on the way to the golf course. He's like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm going to play golf. He's like, what are you doing that for? I was like, well, that's a long story. And so I took a picture of my scorecard.

I had an eight and a one. And I sent it to him. And then I was like, well, I need to send that to my son. Yeah. Because he had called me earlier. And, but Barrett's response was funny. He said, you really needed that because I made a trip. And it just kind of went on from there.

And so then the text that you got from all my buddies, what was funny is Jeff immediately, he's like, well, there's no video. Well, there was a video. They filmed me, which I'm walking up to the house. Yeah, I didn't even realize they filmed that. That's how much of Cloudino was on hitting a hole in one. And they, I walk up there, balls in the hole. Yeah, I got it.

So I have that video. So we put that, he used that. Yeah, it's like the last, about what, 20 seconds of you walk in? up there and then looking in the hole and there's the ball, which is pretty cool. But Jep had an interesting response right off the top of his head. He gets the text and he's like, well, since there's no evidence, that was after, there's no evidence of you actually hitting. He said, I don't believe it.

Yeah, anybody could do what you did that. Oh, yeah. Anybody can walk up and get a video of you walking to the hole. Yeah, it's called a commercial. They show them all the time. So I saw what happened. That triggered, because we're in John 6 and 7. I said, well, let me give you some Bible, and I put Bible in all caps.

I said, they relied on the testimony of at least two witnesses. And I said, I had more than two that saw it. And, of course, then Jep, thinking I was serious. I realized he was joking. I was joking, but yet we had people who in that text that I thought, maybe they need to hear how the Bible operates. And so then Jep felt bad, and he's like, no, you're an honorable, you're one of the most honorable people I know. And I forgot what he said.

I was only kidding. Of course, I didn't say I was only kidding because I was not kidding. Because it made me think of what we've been studying. It's like they didn't believe Jesus. I wanted to say they didn't believe Jesus either. Then I thought that may be too far, you know. Yeah, you don't want to connect your. yourself that much. But the odds are. He said, you're the most, here's what Jeff said. You're the most

honest dude I know. I'm obviously kidding. Good shot, bro. I'm also jealous because I've never had one. So that was, yeah, he should let that sit for a little bit longer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just let it go. Willie gave a simmer, let it, let it soak in because the odds are, is that it didn't happen. The odds are not in your favor. Because the odds, just looked them up. 12,500 to 1 for an average golfer, 2,500 to 1 for a professional golfer. You're probably above average. Those are not bad odds. I thought it would have been more than that.

I mean, I've only hit three, and one of them was when I was like 20. I guess an average golfer. Jay's person was with a driver. It is. When people I tell them that, they laugh. They're like, what did you hit? It's the most amazing hole in one story. There was a little farmhouse goat wrench.

Which I wonder if that golf course is still there. I don't know. And Bernice, where Willie was born. The birthplace of Willie Robertson. And they only had nine holes. And we were in a tournament. And my buddy was a really good golfer. And my only contribution of the day.

But the wind was in our face, and it was like 239 yards. And it was, I hit driver. Back then I had a big old slice. It was the ugliest shot, a little low slice. that just was over the woods at one point, come back, bounced about 14 times. Obviously had to roll a long way.

Roll up the green. In the hole. This in the hole. This is in the hole. And then I remember O'Ogrover was in our group. We actually beat them, which my buddy did. That was my only contribution.

But we won by one. So, because they bogied the hole and we made a one. Because that's a 239 into the wind part three. That's a bear, and you made a one. He's like, you're the luckiest man alive. I had a hole in one yesterday there, dude.

By the way, my line into the thread was, I bet I hear about this on the podcast tomorrow. You know what's crazy just to now give you some humility? Then I'll birdied the next hole. Yeah, you said they had three birdies. I was back to even after a triple bogey. And then I made- Now you're starting to think you're a golfer.

I made two other birdies, which one of them was the last hole. And you're like, so everybody says, what do you shoot? What did you shoot? And I said, I played by the hole. I had a hole in one and three birdies, but they couldn't stand it. They were like, yeah, but what did you shoot? I was like, I played by the hole.

I said, there were four really good holes. I shot at 82. So the rest of the holes, I went, so from five under and four holes, in 14 holes, I was, do the math. Well, plus 10 plus the five, so plus 15. 15 over on the other 14 holes. That sounds like out of territory. It was an angry, volatile round filled with love and grace. That's fun.

So there you go. So there you go, Zay. Holden one. Holden one. In the video of the last few minutes. So before we get to our text, Zach, I got to ask you one thing because your dad's in town. Yeah. He and Ann, his wife came in to see mom and dad yesterday.

And so we had a good visit with him. They spent the night at my house. And you mentioned this, I think the last time we recorded, but we never got to it in the podcast. But you told us that your son told her truck. And then he told me a little more of that story. So I wanted to hear how that happened because it sounded pretty bizarre. Now, your son, I will preface this by saying,

is from the time he was a very small lad. I'm talking about two or three years old. has always had what I would call destructive tendencies. He sees things that work properly and perfectly, and then he sets into them and they become destroyed. I mean, that's just been his legacy up to now. He's an explorer. That's what he'd like to explore.

Okay. He was named after Bear Brow. I'll give you a cliff note version for two reasons. One, I do want to get to the scripture today. Me too. And two, I still, he still has a court date because he got a ticket. So he has a ticket. So I don't want to, we got to see what happens.

I might could help him with that. Yeah, Jay's right. Another case for Judge Jays. But I let him, you know, he does runs errands for me. He does some stuff for, you know, he's, he's part of the team. And so I let him drive the truck every now and then. He had a. Did he break the law or not?

Well, I don't want to, I don't want to say if he broke the law, but we haven't gone to court yet. what I'm saying. If I say it on the podcast, if I, I mean, our attorneys instructed us not to criminal. I didn't realize I was getting into all that. So what I'm saying is, on his behalf, I'm going to plead the fifth,

but the truck is totaled. I will say that. We haven't hired an attorney. I'm just kidding, but I might hire one. But why hire one when you have me? I know how this game works. You got Chase on the case right here. Call me later. If you don't want to do

in public. I mean, call me later. Just tell me the story, but now you've got to be ready to cut the baby in half or do what's right. That's a Solomon reference there, but I'll put to you this way. He has a death that he will never be able to repay, at least in the next several years. So total to truck, I think it's total. We'll find out.

And you're using this as soon. him as a good parent as a teaching moment, I'm sure. Oh, yeah, we were in the middle of house church. And he had gone to a young life event, which is a ministry for kids in high school. And so he was that young life on his way home and wreck the truck. And I hear my phone dingin like, you know, you know, like find my iPhone. So I'm like, ding, ding, ding. But I'd put my phone up for house church because I didn't want to be distracted.

We're in worship. And one of the ladies that goes to our house church. church, she's got the little piano and she's playing. We're all got our eyes closed, the hands raised. We're just singing to the Lord. And I'm just communing with the Holy Spirit. God's just all over, all over us. And then I hear that, ding, diding, and I, whoa, what idiot, you know, is ding in their phone.

Like, turn your phone. I think they're going to the movies. Turn your phone off. And then I realized that is in the other room. And I can, and I just think, I think that's my phone. And in my mind, I thought the only person that, well, the only people that have access to do that to my phone is my immediate family. And Max is not on my plan anymore. Layla got married.

She's not on my plan. Everybody else is in the room with me except for Bear. So I instantly knew this is Bear. Something's gone wrong. Jill gets up. And then she says, Bear's been in a wreck. Of course, the whole house starts like, and everything stops. And so I got him on the phone with him.

He was, you know, very, very upset. And just like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And he was fine, but, I mean, he did flip the truck. So, well, the fact that he was fine was the most important. That was the lead. That's the first thing I thought is he, is he okay? Which I kind of knew it.

And I told Jill, it's like in my gut and my spirit. I knew he was okay because I'm like, who else would know how to like ding my phone? And everything was like just like in one moment. It's like, I know he's okay. And so then once I got in the car, I was just thankful he was okay. And then for the next 12 to 13 minutes in the drive to get to him, a weird emotion came over me that wasn't one of thankfulness. It was one of anger.

And so as I get on the scene, I had that experience. My dad, I'm glad you're okay. Now I'm going to kill you. I don't think he even said I'm glad you're okay. He's just like, what were you thinking? I think that was a man, why would a man turn it? I did tell him, I said, you know the rule of the Robertson family, which I'm half Robertson is do not, you get a butt whipping for not for tearing up perfectly good equipment. That's right.

And that thought popped in my head. So I'm like, I'm about to, this thing's about to unload. And so I drive up in there. I got Ben, my brother-in-law with me. We drive up to the scene. And there's three fire trucks and two cop cars. And I'm like, okay, I can't kill him here. So that's out because I've got too much.

many he's protected and the the main fireman that was there i knew who went to our church or used to go to our church but moved down the mountain and so vince is there and he's like consoling bear consoling me and then there was this one moment when i looked up and vince is like hey zach and he's got his phone out and he's like trying to capture my moment like i'm like what kind of sick is there to capture the the moment he's that you're going to laugh about this one day and i'm like well today's not that day, man. Too soon. Yeah.

We got a picture of it to prove it. Well, let us know as this progresses. Maybe Jay's will wind up on the case. Well, it was crazy that you're like, we got to figure out if it's total. Just send me a picture and I'll tell you whether it's totaled or not. Well, they said if you flip a truck and the airbags deploy and somehow the fluids leak out, then that's like airbag. That's a yuppie approach to this argument.

You send me a picture, and I'll tell you, I've, this is like the wreck car capital of the world. You cannot drive 100 yards. Here's what we're going to do then, Jase, because you've put your neck out there. I'm going to send you a picture right now, and you'll get it in just a few minutes. So you got to remember, look, I found something fascinating this morning now that we've just gone completely off the rails. I went to a bathroom here, and Duck Commander, where I've been for how long have we had this place? many, many years. I'd say at least 20.

Up to 20 years. Someone hung a sign inside the bathroom, never been there before. So in two days ago, I was here, went to the same bathroom. That sign was not there. So somebody, new sign. And I looked at it, I was like, well, let me read this. So they had a picture of a leaf on one side of the sign and a roll of toilet paper on the other side.

Yeah. And under the leaf, it says what a redneck sees. No, no, it says what you see was under the leaf. And then it says what a redneck sees. And it was under the toilet paper. I got you. Well, it actually took me about, you know, 20 seconds to process what their joke was. But I knew it because Phil invented that theory in our world.

but I'm saying that kind of applies to this because it's like Zach's like well gotta get somebody to tell me if it's totaled I've literally driven around total vehicles hey pick up your phone look at the pictures and you give us a verdict right now and then I'll let you know what the insurance company says

Maddie Maddie when this in post production this needs to be that sound in that sound in law and order when it's like, bum, bum, bomb. And you're going to tell, and I pray to God that whatever you say, it's not. I pray that you get it wrong. You need to get this wrong.

This is first look. Well, here's the funny part. He sends me a picture of about, I'd say, 15% of the vehicle. So based on the 15% I'm looking at, I'd say, nope, not total. Okay, hold on. I sent you multiple pictures. Well, look at this, Al. I'm seeing a door.

and, you know, half the hood. Okay. You got to scroll. You got to scroll. Let's flip through it. I sent you multiple pictures. This is literally happening real time on the podcast. Is the vehicle total or is it not?

No, it's not total. So there might say it is because it's a frame. Yeah. But I'm saying. Look at him. I mean, this guy is good. I was expecting. Yeah, bad.

Next time you come here, we're going to tour. of totaled vehicles. You were chastising me for saying, I don't know if the insurance is going to total it. So you said you would know by looking at it, but now you've said it's not total. Oh, it's not total. So they're not going to total it.

It's not total. Yeah, I could get 12 grand for that vehicle in its current condition by dark. Well, yeah, it's an expensive truck. I bet you could. That's a 2012. That's worth about 12 grand. after that. You know?

Then it's total. Then it's total. Dung, dong, dingh. That's why he's the lawyer, guys. That's why he's slick.

He's a slick one. No, it's not total, but they may, you know, deem it. That's what I'm saying. They play the game.

It's a game. That's what I'm saying. But you went on a limb that said you would know, so I showed it to you. Oh, I do know. I've given you the truth. The vehicle is nowhere near totaled. It's not even close.

But then you, you say, but they might total it. They might total it because they'll find some loophole and they, but you know. So you said it out, you see what he's doing now. He's going to be, he's right either way. Oh, he's right either way. If they total it, then he said, I told you. This is why he's on the case.

My first, my first three vehicles that I drove for years were all totaled. Not, not formally totaled, was Dean totaled? And I'm driving it. I have one truck that was totaled three times. Yeah. I mean total doesn't mean what you think of me is because I had one that totaled out three times. That's not a money. If they totaled the truck, I've got a guy that has already told me by the truck,

drive it around with a salvage title, I can fix all of that. Oh, that's what I'm saying. It's not total. I've given you your answer. You just don't like it. I'm like, that is not a total vehicle. Jay's just took you into the woods, showed you some leaves and said, see the toilet paper.

That's it. That's what I did. I think what he did was more like it was a slick move. It was like I want to make the statement but have a caveat where I can be right either way it turns out. Well, you shall know the truth and it'll set you free. That's all I'm saying. Somebody said we were having a Bible study in here.

No, we are, but I think it's the same principle because all of these people are looking at Jesus saying, nope, he doesn't have the total package. You know what I mean? And it's like, I mean, it's a similar view. It's how, what is your view? Yeah. And you showed him. Because one of our next questions is fixed to come up.

Have you noticed it? I have not. Oh, it is. It's a good one. All right, good. So in the last podcast that we were studying this, you read through 24, I think. No, chapter 7. My memory is not what it was.

Yeah, and that's what it was, because you left off with Moses. Yeah. Yeah, stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgment. Look, I've had to say that sentence in my life, you know, when I had a similar situation that Phil had, when I was at an event and they're, you know, trying to figure out where the nearest homeless shelter is. Yeah.

Stop judging by mere appearances. You know, don't judge a book. Which, that's the line I use when I'm speaking, that I'm the only Roberts of male that doesn't have a mistaken identity homeless story.

I'm the only one. Everybody else has at least one. Yeah. Some multiple. So we talked about this just to set it back into context. Jesus goes back to a healing that he did in John 5.

Of course, the reason they say, is this goddamnas? Are you crazy? Because they weren't privy to everything that had happened before, but he's like, you know, I heal one guy on the Sabbath and y'all are losing your mind.

Yeah, that's 21 when he says, I did one miracle. So you remember in John 5 where he healed the guy on the Sabbath? Yeah. At the pool. Yeah, John 5. Yeah, because he asked him, you know, and then he had another encounter with him. He's like, and that was one of our questions, do you want to get well? Yeah.

What he asked him. And I think that was a profound question because, you know, he had basically gotten comfortable just in his misery. Yeah. And, you know, thinking there's some kind of angelic powers, you know. Well, we even talked about it when we were studying that context, that there was a pagan-like connection to that pool and the Greek gods. And so this thing was back.

I mean, in other words, we think something else is going to come in to do this. So there was a deeper, you know, meaning behind the help. Well, he said there's nobody to help me. Now he's thinking there's just some kind of magic trick of celestial beings that are going to heal him. Right. And of course Jesus says, get up, pick up your mat and walk. The whole problem happened that it was on the Sabbath. So when he said, pick up your mat, well, that was not allowed on the Sabbath.

Of course, here's the man who invented the Sabbath. Because he's the son of God, saying you've missed the point of that. Right. And then he uses another illustration in the middle of that. And you want to talk about that one? Yeah. Where he says, well, first in verse 20, I mean in verse 19 is my next question. Yeah.

When he says, has not Moses given you the law? That was the first question that leads into the second question, which I think the second one was the point. Yeah. Which he says, yet not one of you keeps the law. And so then he asks a double question, but this second one is a doozy. Why are you trying to kill me? Yeah.

And I just think when you take these questions even out of their context, it's like, why would you want to kill Jesus? It's a very profound question. It is. Yeah, it is. I think it's in the accusation. The answer is obviously multieth. fasted it, but one thing is, is embedded in the question or the statement that he says, the two

statements, has not Moses given you the law, which we already have seen throughout the gospel John, that Jesus is a better Moses, right? I mean, he's a better Moses. He's a Moses that not only mediates for the sins of the people when he meets with God in the tabernacle, but Jesus is the cornerstone of the new tabernacle. And not only does he mediate for our sins, he actually atones for our sins by taking them on and forgives our sins. So it's a much better picture. I knew we were going here, but where I went was, you know what would have been a good question for Eve to ask? That's why I'm really excited about analyzing these questions. When, based on what she had heard from God, remember when he said,

don't eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Because if you do, remember what he said? You'll surely die. You'll die. So when the evil one came up there and started asking his questions and making his statements, a good question for Eve, if she would have known this story, is she should have asked the evil one. Why are you trying to kill me?

Why are you trying to kill me? Yeah. Because that's exactly what he was trying to do. It's a great point. So to me, that was the smoking gun of, I think, that question and what it means, because when you look at all the other verses, which one I've read so many times on this podcast, but I will refer to it again, just to go with the narrative of, you know, I brought up from the garden, is when Jesus is declared by the Hebrew writer in Hebrews 214, which that Hebrews 2 section is all about Jesus becoming. a human. Yep. And he says, since the children, humans, have flesh and blood, he too shared in their

humanity. So that by his death, he might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is the devil, which he's going to say in the next chapter of John 8 about the evil one and them serving him without knowing it. he said he was a murderer from the beginning. Right. Now, we usually go to Cain and Abel, but I just brought up this fact

that it actually brought death into the world, because then they were separated from the tree of life. They sin. They didn't do what God said. And so then the presence of God in humans together was broken in that moment. And what was the result? Death.

More sin and all die. Well, because, murder that you're right, the murder came after because that's the natural result of when people take on being God, then they determine what values life and what does. Zach, you made that, that was the point of your whole movie. And what, and there's a, there is a thread that runs through this, in this, that he's leading the conversation to the Holy Spirit because he's going to talk a little bit about rivers of living water.

And so if you think about this question he's asking these Pharisees, when he says, he says, about Moses has not Moses given you the law, yet nobody keeps it. So one of the reasons why they wanted to kill him is because of the second statement, which was true. Nobody keeps the law. And so the whole point is that the law, or the trespass increases with the coming of the law with the new covenant. It's actually a, we're called to be ministers. It's a sufficient, were made sufficient, according to Apostle Paul, were made sufficient to be ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter, but of the Spirit, Holy Spirit.

For the letter kills, but what does the Spirit do? The Spirit gets life. So the letter kills, but the Spirit is what gives life. And so the picture, again, going back to, like the temple language, Genesis 1, it was the river that came out of Eden. and what was the purpose of the river in chapter 2 was to give life to the garden. It was to feed

the garden where the fruit was being produced. It was to feed the garden. Ezekiel's vision was the water, the river comes out of the temple and everything that it touches it gives life to. The Holy Spirit comes, the Holy Spirit comes out of the temple, it gives life to everything

it touches. And that's directly connected with what you said, Jace, about the presence of God being disconnected from the people here is that to be connected with the presence of God, what that ultimately means is we are connected with the source of life. We are connected to the vine. We are in the river. We are in the flow.

And as you think about any place there's a river, even in the desert, what is all around the river? Life. Well, look, I went down a rabbit hole on this, and I'm not an expert in Leviticus by any means. but I listen to some of the scholars that I listen to. And what I found perplexing is this idea of what you brought up about. You brought up immediately sacrifice and atonement.

And so, you know, I started looking in Leviticus, like for the purposes of sacrifices. Because when I went down this rabbit hole with the question about what Eve should have asked, the evil one, why are you trying to kill me? And then when Kane killed Abel, you remember that part of that story that never gets any airtime is remember God said his blood is crying out to me from the ground. And, well, I was reading in Leviticus about all these, the sacrifices and the purposes. And what I really concluded is I think in most churches we kind of have this narrative wrong because a lot of these sacrifices were actually given to purify the place where God would meet humans,

think the tabernacle, the altar, the temple. And that's what stood out. And I noticed, I forgot who said it, but there was a verse in Leviticus. Can I ask you a question before you say that? Yeah. What brought you to Leviticus out of John 7? That when he said, why are you trying to kill me? And I was thinking about the sacrifice.

Yeah. You know, him becoming a sacrifice. Because he linked it to law. He kept, yeah, to law and Moses. He keeps bringing up that picture. And I just went down the rabbit hole and I got into the Levittical priesthood and the sacrifices. And, well, the more I was listening and reading, I was like, this seems way more about these sacrifices. is being given to make the place holy for God's presence.

That God's presence is what kept coming up. Now, it would say for the sins of people, there was an element to that, but they were only doing it once a year. They were calling it the Day of Atonement. Yeah. This one passage was like a smoking gun to me, and it's Leviticus 1711.

And, man, it just took me, it just flipped my narrative here. little bit. If I can find Leviticus 1711. Leviticus numbers. Leviticus 1711. And you're going to know why this had such an appeal to me.

Yeah. Because there's one little word that really stood out because here was my narrative before I read it. I thought, and I was taught, okay, they were doing these sacrifices because, you know, Leviticus is not a place you hang out, you know, because there's animals being killed.

Now, we were hunters. We were raised where we're living off the land. So it wasn't as shocking to us. I mean, it kind of became part of, this is God's gift to us based on Genesis 9, and we're living off the land. But for most people, Leviticus is a bloody.

Oh, it's bloody, and it makes you feel uncomfortable. And, you know, I was told, well, they had to give these sacrifices so God wouldn't kill them, you know, basically. But when I read Luke 17, I mean, Leviticus 1711 after reading basically 8 through 16. So I'm going to just introduce this and you go study it on your own and see where I'm at here. What did I say?

1711. Yeah, watch this sentence. For the life, well, I'll just read 10 here. Or let me back up and read a little bit so we get to feel for it. So verse 8 says, say to them any Israelite or any alien, among them who offers a burn offering or sacrifice and does not bring it to the entrance of the tent of the meeting. And there's somewhere it says about bringing it into the holy place.

But maybe that's coming up. To sacrifice it to the Lord, that man must be cut off from his people. Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people. Remember when we brought that up, when Jesus said that, you got to drink my blood. It's like, well, it's in the old text, and you're not supposed to do that. Right. You know?

Because he says that blood is the life, it's a reflection of the life that's in a living being, which is there's something in the blood. For the life of the flesh is in the blood. That's my translation, which is a great way of thinking of it. That's right. So then verse 11, here was the one that really, watch how he, he. he words the exact opposite of what kind of I was taught when I heard this. For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar.

It is the blood that makes atonement for one's life. Well, it's like, we're not giving it to him. He gave it to you as a sacrifice. Well, it totally flipped the narrative. You know, kind of looking at it's God's grace to you because you're such a, you know, you keep missing the mark, sin, which then it made me kind of rethink that, which is not rethinking, I knew this,

but I guess put it together. Because you think, well, what is sin? Well, you miss the mark. Well, think about what the purpose was on why God made us. We are created in the image. we're supposed to reflect God. Well, when you miss that mark, there you have sin. Yeah.

And it's tied in with idolatry because whatever you're worshipping, that's contrary to the living God, contributes to you missing the mark, which is sinful. And so what does God do? Well, it's totally a different narrative. It's not like an angry God saying, oh, you better go kill something, you know, so I can settle down a bit, you know. He's like, no, I'm...

They would say appease the gods. Well, how many times in John 6 did he say, this is a gift, I give, this is a gift, I give. This is a gift, I get. So when you think about God's sacrifice, one, in purifying this sacred place, this holy place, well, that's when I got into thinking of all the passages in Hebrews. Well, then it makes perfect sense. You know, at the end of chapter 6 in Hebrew, I'd like to read it because Jesus fulfilled that because he is the gift.

And think about how many times when you talk about salvation or atonement that that gift is there. Think Ephesians too when he says, this is not on your own. What? It's a gift from God. That's what Jesus is. He is a gift.

Just like he provided the animals to be slaughtered as a gift from him. Right. So because that lifeblood would provide atonement. But it's also allowing that space to be filled where God and humans could be reconciled. So I'll just give you three instances in Hebrews where it basically says Jesus does that for us, which is the point.

He came to fulfill this. So the first one's at the end of Hebrew 6, where it says God did two unchangeable things in which it's impossible for God to lie, who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us that we may be greatly encouraged. Now watch, verse 19, 619. we have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. This hope enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, which is what all of these sacrifices have in the book of Leviticus.

You see this kind of language. And here's how Jesus fulfills it. Where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf, he has become a high priest forever. Well, we're talking about him entering heaven. So then look at Hebrew 7, 26. I'll start in 25. Therefore, Jesus is able to save completely those who come to God through him

because he always lives to intercede for him. Such a high priest meets our need. Now watch this, who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, and exalted to the heavens. Unlike the other high priest, he does not need to offer sacrifices. day after day for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people, he sacrificed for their sins once for all.

And then the last one I'll read is in Hebrews 9, which is kind of the kicker. Verse 24, for Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one. He entered heaven itself. Now, to appear for us, well, here's this phrase again, in God's presence.

But he's there for us. nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again the way the high priest enters the most holy place every year with blood that is not his own. Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Just as man is destined to die once and after that to face judgment, so Christ will sacrifice wants to take away the sins of many people and he will appear a second time not to bear sin, but to bring salvation. And so I brought all that up just to say, now they weren't going to come up with it, but when he said, why are you trying to kill me? A good answer was because you're the gift of God

so that we can be in the presence of God. And we hate that you have to die for that to happen. But that would have been the correct answer, to reconcile humanity. And it is the gift. of God. It makes more sense of John 6 when Jesus said, I give my flesh for the life of the world. So when we talk about that verse a lot in this podcast, and really when we talk about

atonement and we talk about salvation, we do want to broaden our definition and understanding of salvation beyond just our own, like the God Christ paid for our sins so that I don't go to hell. Right. There is more to what happened. And I think that Leviticus verse is very powerful because he associates the blood of Jesus with the life force that's in the flesh. Exactly. So when you think about the picture that I got when you were reading that text was that this is what I thought.

I thought of a blood transfusion and that Christ is infusing his life force, which is his blood, into human beings. And so we live through him. And it sounds very similar because you read the part about the temple too. And going into the Holy of Holies, man, that's the same language of like this, these streams. You know, we see the song that there's a stream that flows from Emmanuel's veins. Like that's the picture. That's the spring of eternal life welling up to you. You can't separate the Holy Spirit from the blood of Jesus.

But it's not just that there's like this punishment that has to be paid. it's not just punitive. It's, no, it is the life force. You're receiving the life force from God. Yeah. Well, that's what, you know what I immediately thought for the first time in my life? I thought, well, no wonder he could then pour out the spirit on people because he had made the place holy.

What is the place? The human holy, so now it could, the Holy Spirit could dwell, which we're going back to Even in the argument that he brought up about circumcision, which I know we're fixed to run out of time, it's the same principle when you read Abraham and the promise that he made that this would be a sign, which there's some shedding of the blood here, you know, this is a sign of the promise. And then I think Genesis 17, where he says so that I could live with you. You know, you be my people and I be your God. you know, we have this relationship.

And so it made me think that's why how all this work. He's in heaven as this atoning sacrifice for human beings, you know, making them right. Just simply. But it is about the place. I mean, when you say the word place, think about what that word means. The place is the space that we occupy. It's the space that you occupy. or the space that something occupies.

That's literally like the definition. Like where is the place that you live? Well, that just means like, what is the space on planet Earth that your home occupies? That's your place or wherever I'm at is my place. And so the question that we're asking is like, where is our place? But the better question is where is God's place? Like where is God? He described it.

What he's doing now is explaining what he described to the woman at the well in John 4. neither on this mountain. Yeah. Because what was her question? Where's the place? Where's the place? Where's the place of worship? The reason I think that we don't see that as easily as I think,

now I just gave a thumbnail. Look, you have to go do your own study. But it's because people say, well, we still sin, which is true. But that's why Jesus is at the right hand of God. The sacrifice is still at the right hand of God. Which is the answer to the question. Why do you want to kill me? Well, because we still sin.

Exactly. Exactly. And remember the question that led into it, and we'll leave with this, they asked, how did this man get such learning without having studies? That's what led Jesus into this, like, who? Where did he go to school? You know, why is he no? And he's trying to explain to him, look, you don't understand.

I don't have to go to school. I wrote it. I came up with it. And I didn't, so I had to spend five hours trying to study why he would ask such a question. Exactly. Which I think that is along the right track of what he was trying to get at on which side of this. Are you a killer? Or do you want to come to me because I gave my life up for you so you could live?

You know, it comes back to that life and death. It does. And that's exactly why we have to surrender. Christ didn't go to, he didn't get his M-Def. He wasn't a master of divinity. He was master divine. Yeah, exactly. That's where he went to school.

I love it. All right, well, we're out of time. We'll pick it up next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.